WEBVTT - Ep. 2: Ryan Callaghan 0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:06.320 Hey, everybody, Welcome to the second episode of the Hunting 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:11.240 Collected podcast. I've been O'Brien and I am joined in 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:15.360 the second podcast by the one and only Ryan Callahan. 0:00:15.440 --> 0:00:20.520 You guys probably know Ryan from his time with Meat Eater, 0:00:21.640 --> 0:00:25.680 or even more likely know him from his role with 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:30.200 First Light Clothing and all the things they do at 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:33.800 that brand. But where are you knowing from? I don't know. 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:37.800 Is that important in this case? The fact is Ryan 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:40.680 is good people. I mean, if you say Salt of 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:46.520 the Earth, you think Ryan Callahan a guy that isn't 0:00:46.520 --> 0:00:50.120 about the flash, isn't about the show, isn't about all 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:53.519 the things that that may go into someone's reputation on 0:00:53.560 --> 0:00:57.000 honey industry. Man, he just loves hunting. He loves wilderness, 0:00:57.080 --> 0:01:00.320 he loves public lands, he loves to kill, he loves 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:03.040 to cook, he loves to eat, and as you'll find 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:06.479 out in this episode, he loves to educate. And he's 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:09.520 somebody that I greatly admire, not only for what he's doing, 0:01:09.560 --> 0:01:12.679 but what he can do. And I think this conversation 0:01:12.720 --> 0:01:15.960 will show you that he's thought long and hard about 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:18.720 his position in the hunting industry. He has a lot 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:23.480 to say and we can all benefit from Ryan Galahans 0:01:23.840 --> 0:01:28.360 and his mustache in the hunting world. So for Numero two, 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:31.960 we're gonna come to you from the Salt Palace Convention 0:01:32.000 --> 0:01:35.040 Center in Salt Lake City. We're at the Western Hunting Expo, 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:39.240 sitting and it's so Yota to come and pick up 0:01:39.840 --> 0:01:43.800 on the trade show floor. Amiss the madness, So enjoy 0:01:45.160 --> 0:02:05.279 this conversation, Bryan. Mr Brian, describe in your best first 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:11.400 where we are current time. I feel like, um, we 0:02:11.720 --> 0:02:17.760 are on like our own little alien ship here observing 0:02:18.160 --> 0:02:25.400 the people of Earth. Um. We we are inside a 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:31.600 Yetti branded uh Toyota, sitting on the show floor at 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:36.360 the Western hunt Expo here in Salt Lake City, Utah. 0:02:36.480 --> 0:02:41.520 And we're there's literally a sea of people wandering around us. 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:45.200 And I would say one out of about thirty or 0:02:45.240 --> 0:02:49.200 forty looks over and realizes there's two guys with headphones 0:02:49.240 --> 0:02:52.079 on and sitting inside of Toyota. Do you think they 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:56.160 think we're creepy? There's definitely if you make an effort 0:02:56.160 --> 0:02:58.200 to lock eyes with somebody that you definitely get a 0:02:58.240 --> 0:03:00.600 weird double take. That's currently a child out looking at 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.679 me like with It's pretty I'd be lying if I 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:06.160 said it's not fun. I like this. I'm glad we 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:07.920 did it here and not like in a just a 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:12.079 normal setting, because this gives us a chance to really 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:18.480 reflect on solitude and the human race in the nature 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:22.200 of trade shows. It's fascinating, right, I mean, I think 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.480 it's fascinating. I think I make no bones about it. 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:29.840 Like being in it's it's a trade off between m 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.320 being you know, largely antisocial in the woods and then 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:38.880 all of a sudden it's like severe social time. Yeah, 0:03:39.080 --> 0:03:41.360 like severe is a good word for it. It's a 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.560 severe I would The question I have for you is 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:47.440 which what is worse on your body and mind, Like 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:49.920 a month in the back country during elk season or 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:54.720 a month at trade show season in the various cities Vegas, 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:58.840 Salt Lake included. Oh, I don't think there's any doubt 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:04.640 trade show season is harder on you know, all aspects 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:08.320 of mind and body, and and it's not like it 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:12.600 and I think you could argue that you're really stretching 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:17.480 your mental capabilities, like having you know, thousands of conversations 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:19.880 and things. But at the end it all kind of 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:24.160 blends together too, So yeah, you're not really sure what 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:28.080 town you're in or you're talking to, but you're pretty sure. 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:32.920 I'm pretty sure you're okay. The steak tastes all right, 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:37.920 but but it's not doesn't taste that good, No, I 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:44.159 mean that's yeah. It can be like generic meal thirty 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:48.880 seven B, yeah, thirty seven B. Yeah, at some at 0:04:48.880 --> 0:04:50.920 some level, I was telling somebody to day, like you eat, 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:54.560 you have this social hour. You have a meal with 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:57.880 varying people. Sometimes it's the same person as the last night, 0:04:57.920 --> 0:05:00.040 most times it's not. And then you have stay and 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:02.799 around and is it's the cloud of of human beings 0:05:02.839 --> 0:05:07.560 and try to get some sort of conversation with substance 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.520 to going. But it rarely ever happens. It doesn't. And 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:12.919 that's the kind of the weird thing from like a 0:05:12.920 --> 0:05:15.280 true trade show. We're at a consumer show where at 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:16.920 so it's open to the general public and it's a 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:20.440 little bit different. But trade show where you're supposed to 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.159 be taking care of like trade matters is the theory, 0:05:24.400 --> 0:05:29.479 like it never happens, and it's all partial conversations that 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.480 you're like, oh, well, we gotta follow up because everybody's 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:37.880 too busy to actually complete something. So yeah, the conversation 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:41.400 of substances, and I would also says just a point 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:44.599 of of where we are right now, that we're sitting 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:50.280 in the truck inside of what is the total archery challenge, 0:05:50.960 --> 0:05:54.479 and there is a group of people shooting flu flu 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:58.680 arrows at foam disks literally feet in front of us, 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.080 and there is at some level are going over our heads. 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:04.720 The arrows are somewhat going over our heads. And I 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:09.080 think the archers themselves are would are so locked into 0:06:09.120 --> 0:06:12.080 the targets that they have no clue that we are here, 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:14.960 don't know that we're here at all. Well, maybe we'll 0:06:15.040 --> 0:06:19.160 end the podcast by just just a commentary on what's happening, 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:21.880 just kind of a play by play yes on this 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.400 situation currently here in Salt Lake City. What are the 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:27.200 ground rules for your podcast? Ben? Is there is its 0:06:27.440 --> 0:06:30.400 free thought? Is it cussing? Is it you can cuss? Okay, 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:34.640 for sure, it's definitely free thought. I think, Um, now, 0:06:34.680 --> 0:06:39.320 after the first podcast with Steve, we had to we 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:43.760 fixed the audio problems hopefully, so now we have like 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:45.760 we got the you know, the technical difficulties out of 0:06:45.760 --> 0:06:49.240 the way the first one. I think going forward, we 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.120 just need to figure out what we're supposed to talk 0:06:52.160 --> 0:06:55.680 about what And that's why did you want to do this? 0:06:55.800 --> 0:07:00.000 Why did you want to do a podcast? Vin with UM? Well, 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:02.440 I mean I started my career in journalism, right, So 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:06.040 I always fancy myself some sort of storyteller or at 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:10.320 least interested in other people's stories rather than my own, 0:07:10.480 --> 0:07:16.480 Right Like I didn't necessarily always want to, um have 0:07:16.560 --> 0:07:19.720 a camera on me. I always felt fairly uncomfortable in 0:07:19.720 --> 0:07:22.360 that situation. But what I did feel comfortable and is 0:07:22.400 --> 0:07:28.360 telling other people's stories. And what what was important to 0:07:28.400 --> 0:07:31.120 me I was being able to do that and whatever 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:33.960 career that I had, And so I started out at 0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:38.200 a print magazines and digital and actually doing that UM 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:42.360 my current career at Yettie. We're distroyed storytellers as well, 0:07:42.440 --> 0:07:44.239 we just do it in film in some different ways. 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:49.160 So for me, this is just a another way. It's 0:07:48.840 --> 0:07:52.160 a burgeoning way that people tell stories, you know, and 0:07:52.200 --> 0:07:53.880 this is a way for people to learn my story, 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:56.720 but but less that and more to learn yours and 0:07:56.760 --> 0:08:00.240 Steve's and the collective group of people that we you know, 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:03.200 surround ourselves with. If you learn all those people stories 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:06.960 becomes this weird tapestry of ideas and philosophies and ideologies 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:10.160 that comes together to form this thing that we do 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.120 that's hunting, because we all come from I come from 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:16.560 a far different place from where you came from. Yeah, 0:08:16.760 --> 0:08:21.880 have you And I'm always afraid of redundancy, but have 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:27.720 you covered your upbringing? Because little Kenyan I um, when 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:31.200 we've you know, first got together in a setting where 0:08:31.200 --> 0:08:37.120 we could actually talk, um, Yeah, because you're East coast 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:42.080 um and uh, you kind of had the similar thread 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.200 that you and I have. You kind of have. It 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:48.200 wasn't your dad, right, it was. It was partially my dad, 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.200 but like I had a name, yeah that was It 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:53.640 was a mentor, right, and my dad was You know, 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:55.560 you have to be like to have both things. You 0:08:55.559 --> 0:08:59.040 have to have that mentor that that person that you know, 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.200 maybe as a kid coming up, you're not always really 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:03.040 good listening to your parents because you've got to do 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:05.480 that all the time, listen your parents seven. So if 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.520 there's another voice there, if there's another outlet for you 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:10.840 to kind of push your energy towards. I feel like 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:12.960 it helped. It certainly did help me. Having our neighbor, 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:16.520 Bill Miller, was just a fantastic redneck son of a 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:20.640 bitch and all the proper like he would wear buckskins 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:23.320 in the weekend, he would like wear buckskins and come 0:09:23.320 --> 0:09:27.320 over with muzzleloaders and we'd yeah, throw axes at trees 0:09:27.400 --> 0:09:30.280 and like, it was just this proper redneck outlet that 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:33.040 we needed to we needed to come on. We'll wait 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:35.959 here for a minute till that's it. You'll hear various 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:39.400 announcements of sheep tags being sold and child being lost 0:09:39.520 --> 0:09:47.000 or whatever. Occasionally people staring, yep, somebody might get in 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:48.520 the back of the truck. I think they might go 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:51.440 for a ride at some little anyway. I mean, I 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.800 think my upbringing was probably different than a lot of 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:58.280 people that have that are in the industry. A lot 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:00.160 of you know, a lot of people I've met have 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:02.840 that Western background. Some people I met have that mid 0:10:03.280 --> 0:10:07.640 that Midwestern background, and and it's markedly different than what 0:10:07.679 --> 0:10:11.080 I experienced. It's markedly different than where I grew up. 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:14.320 I mean, we dear season was very it was tribal, 0:10:14.320 --> 0:10:18.000 it was communal. It was we were five or six 0:10:18.080 --> 0:10:22.400 or eight dudes with rifles and whatever antler we saw 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:26.280 got shot, and then there wasn't There was a lot 0:10:26.280 --> 0:10:28.200 of tactics involved. There wasn't a lot of talk about 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:30.120 the philosophies of why we did it. It was mostly 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:34.240 just spending time together. And I remember my favorite part 0:10:34.240 --> 0:10:36.160 would be we'd kill five or six deer, we'd have 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:38.600 a skin party in the garage. That's my favorite party 0:10:38.600 --> 0:10:41.720 of hunting, my absolute favorite, other than like the anticipation 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:46.240 of getting up in the morning and standing on our 0:10:46.320 --> 0:10:49.280 front porch and just like feeling the cold and feeling 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:52.280 the silence and waiting for everybody kind to assemble and 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.000 getting the trucks and go. Those two moments I remember 0:10:55.040 --> 0:10:57.400 this a kid, like, those two moments were my favorite moments. 0:10:57.440 --> 0:11:00.560 That early morning frost and you just you know, I 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:02.840 had like this old pair of coveralls that stand out there, 0:11:02.840 --> 0:11:05.000 and my dad'd be making lunch and all that, and 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:09.240 you just realized that, you know, this is a calm 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:11.800 before the storm. And then the after party was was 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:16.840 coming back down from you know, time spent. And you know, 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:18.439 I don't know if that's very much different from a 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:20.079 lot of people, but I think just the environment that 0:11:20.120 --> 0:11:22.200 I grew up as pretty redneck. I mean, when I 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:23.920 look back one at the time, I thought this is normal. 0:11:24.280 --> 0:11:28.079 That's what everybody's doing. But there wasn't There wasn't trophies, 0:11:28.120 --> 0:11:30.120 there wasn't talk of I mean it was it was 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:32.000 it a six or an eight or four or ten. 0:11:32.600 --> 0:11:35.880 Then there was never We never knew how to measure, 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:38.600 and we never thought about that. And so I came 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:40.520 from that angle. And I think part of one into 0:11:40.559 --> 0:11:42.920 podcast is like we all come from such different angles, 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:46.000 like we all come at this thing and then and 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:48.560 we change every single I change every year. In fact, 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:52.200 I sit down um every year and kind of take 0:11:52.240 --> 0:11:55.200 a day, you know, early in the season whenever it 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:57.319 is to think about, like, how have I changed from 0:11:57.400 --> 0:11:59.880 last year? What what are the things I'm unwilling to 0:11:59.880 --> 0:12:02.160 do now that I was maybe willing to try before. 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:04.280 That's interesting, you know, what are the things you know? 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:06.520 What are the things that what are just you know, 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:08.559 some of the ideas that I questioned now that I 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:11.240 every question before, you know, so you change. So I 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:13.800 think that's to the answer. The original question is just 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.400 that the expiration of that, it's some weird catharsis that 0:12:17.440 --> 0:12:20.520 I have to talk to smart people and explore some 0:12:20.600 --> 0:12:22.720 ideas and things that I question because there's a lot 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:25.680 of stuff in hunting that I don't like, I'm not 0:12:25.720 --> 0:12:27.880 afraid to say that. I don't think that's a detriment 0:12:27.920 --> 0:12:30.160 to hunters as a whole. I just think, just like 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:32.040 anything else, we got a lot of stuff to figure out. 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:36.679 The Yeah, I mean there's there's a lot of questions, 0:12:36.800 --> 0:12:42.960 right like um, and being in the positions that that 0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.640 we are in and are you know, different jobs? But 0:12:47.320 --> 0:12:49.839 you get this like, yeah, I just want to get 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:54.320 into the hunting industry. And I always question because that's 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:57.560 we're on the topic of questioning, like what really is 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:03.040 the hunting industry? I mean you're selling coolers? Yeah? Is 0:13:03.080 --> 0:13:06.560 that the hunting industry? Right? But you know, you guys, 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:11.120 the way you tell stories and do you embrace hunting 0:13:11.640 --> 0:13:18.760 certainly is and you know we're selling clothes, um, and 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:25.040 like what what would be the core of the hunting industry? Yeah, 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:26.840 what is the core of hunting? And shot man? I 0:13:27.840 --> 0:13:30.720 how do you how do you associate your going hunting 0:13:30.720 --> 0:13:32.800 with a group of people? Like how do you associate 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:35.760 your what you do alone or with close friends with 0:13:35.920 --> 0:13:39.440 a larger community? Like what's your you know, what's your 0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:44.080 association with the eleven million people that hunt? And you know, 0:13:44.200 --> 0:13:46.160 the even smaller group that call him as part of 0:13:46.160 --> 0:13:49.280 the industry air quotes. I don't know what that is. 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:52.440 My association to it is it was the way for 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:55.720 me to spend almost all my time free time outside 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.320 of my family with people that do what I do, 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:03.400 care about what I care about. Um, there's other ways 0:14:03.400 --> 0:14:05.959 to do it, conservation groups, you know. But I mean 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:09.640 we both work for companies that are part of this, 0:14:09.760 --> 0:14:12.640 but there's other many other angles to get into it. 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:16.240 So I just always see it is like the association 0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:22.080 with this group of people, uh, and going back to 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:24.240 that group of people like that I care about that 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:28.800 I don't. I don't take for granted that there's a 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:32.160 lot of people that do what we do. Some of 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:34.600 them maybe have never thought about the ideas we could 0:14:34.600 --> 0:14:37.520 present and in this format like this podcast and you know, 0:14:37.680 --> 0:14:40.640 talk through some stuff that maybe they've never when they 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:43.080 never thought of before. And in the first podcast, Steve 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:47.520 Ronella talked about points where he read a book or 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.760 he read you know, Pinochet, or he read a guy 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:55.200 like Um Roosevelt and one of his ideas presented change 0:14:55.280 --> 0:15:00.640 the way that Steve saw either his own hunting or 0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:03.800 his relationship with other hunters like those ideas, just the 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:08.280 exploration or or a statement could change the way that 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:11.440 people see and act and feel in the hunting world. 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:14.400 So I mean, maybe that's how we're part of it. 0:15:14.520 --> 0:15:16.200 The exchange of ideas makes us part of it. I 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:21.160 don't know. Yeah, not smart enough for that. It. Um, 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:26.160 it is so funny. I talked to a friend of 0:15:26.200 --> 0:15:31.520 mine that actually UM works for Patagonia UM and they 0:15:31.560 --> 0:15:38.160 have a position called the director of Philosophy, and I 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.200 was I was really getting a kick out of that. 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:44.120 My next title director can you change? I mean, I 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:46.880 feel like it at first Let you could change? He say, Hey, Kenton, 0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:49.280 I'd like to be the director of philosophy and you 0:15:49.280 --> 0:15:55.200 can probably make that happen. Yes, yeah, yeah, I'm struggling 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.160 whether or not that'll be the poll after this. We're 0:15:57.160 --> 0:15:58.840 gonna put this up in a pall. Do you want 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:02.400 Roan Cale to be introduced as director of philosophy for 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:07.880 First Life? But hunting is this like, whether you want 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:13.480 to admit to it or not, however you participate here. UM, 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:19.720 it is a deeply philosophical thing, right. It's myself personally, 0:16:19.720 --> 0:16:22.720 and and I know certain groups within the hunting world 0:16:22.760 --> 0:16:26.560 and certain organizations and things try to preach this message, 0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:29.160 but for me, I can tell you it is very true. 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:33.640 Like I feel like, to my core, I have a 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:41.280 deeper appreciation for these animals that I hunt. And and 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.760 you know, be open and honest here, it's not every 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:50.200 single uh creature out there that that I feel this 0:16:50.240 --> 0:16:53.240 way about. It's it's truly the ones that I've spent 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:58.560 the most time on the mountain pursuing, watching, um, getting 0:16:58.560 --> 0:17:02.840 to know the ins and outs of how they operate. Um, Like, 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:09.479 I have a deeper love for those animals and eventually 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:14.320 I kill him Like that is a bizarre thing. And 0:17:14.359 --> 0:17:16.600 how do you explain that to somebody? Well, that's that's 0:17:16.640 --> 0:17:19.320 where we're we're talking about dinner. The other night. I 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:22.640 was like, we have unfortunately or fortunately however you want 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:26.119 to look at it, stumbled into a passion that is 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:30.919 hard to explain. And there was a writer, um, Michael 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:35.480 Poland who wrote this. He's a liberal activist and um, 0:17:35.560 --> 0:17:37.600 you know, a known author, and he wrote this book 0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:42.000 called The Omni War's Dilemma where he you know, went hunting, 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:44.080 pig hunting in California and there's this big es start 0:17:44.119 --> 0:17:46.040 about his pig hunt. He goes with these rednecks. I mean, 0:17:46.080 --> 0:17:49.320 the guys he went with were pure, pure pig hunting rednecks. 0:17:50.400 --> 0:17:52.080 And he at the end of it all, he said, 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:54.959 the thing that struck him the most that from the inside, 0:17:55.240 --> 0:17:58.359 hunting looks so much different than it does from the outside, 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:01.480 like in there in, he said, there is simply no 0:18:01.560 --> 0:18:07.280 way to explain that chasm, like there's no way in 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:09.639 his view. And here's this is a Polish surprize winning 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:15.199 author too. He is accurately experiently teaching at Harvard, right, 0:18:16.040 --> 0:18:19.719 so a smart fellow from the outside looking at one 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:24.040 more Harvard degree that's in this truck. We currently have zero. 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:26.600 Let's say, Yeah, here's a guy who's thought about a 0:18:26.600 --> 0:18:30.320 lot of things pretty critically, um, you know, and he 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.280 and he talks about that at length about how it's 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.360 it's so much different. And and so here we are, 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:42.480 you know, we're we're both you know, relatively younger fellas um, 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:44.160 a little bit younger than you. But I think we 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:48.200 you know, we're maybe the first generation that really has 0:18:48.240 --> 0:18:52.280 been truly faced with this, with this problem that hunting 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:55.639 looks so much different from from the outside looking in, 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:59.760 because hunting really wasn't available to the mass population. Before 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:03.200 so a media and before the modern media age, hunting 0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:06.720 really wasn't It was a closet. It was a book. 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:09.200 People could only read the cover. Now they can read 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:12.879 every page. And so now we're our generations having a 0:19:13.000 --> 0:19:16.920 just course and find a different way to represent things. 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:18.760 And what I'm proud of and happy of you guys 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:23.520 like you are doing your best too to make that happen, 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:26.080 because there's no other choice. We don't have a choice 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:30.080 but to rewrite the book in some way. I certainly, man, 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:35.280 I certainly don't feel like we do have a choice. 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:41.280 I think there's a number of things going on right 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:46.800 now that I feel like, if you want to call 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.320 yourself a hunter, and if you want to use this 0:19:50.080 --> 0:19:55.720 tagline that's out there, the hunter conservationist thing, that's not 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:59.320 just hunting. That is you've got to be an active 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:04.760 partisans a punt um because hunting is being discussed in 0:20:04.840 --> 0:20:10.600 a lot of rooms, uh, in powerful rooms where people 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.320 are making decisions and hunting. There is not a hunter 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:17.520 in that room. And that is a scary, scary thing. 0:20:18.440 --> 0:20:22.760 And uh one thing that I have learned on dealing 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:26.120 with um lots of folks in the government is they're 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:31.320 very busy people and they're being advised, and it is 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:36.479 scary sometimes too when you actually get to hear what 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:40.280 they have to say, what these advisors have told them, 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:42.960 because they're they're busy people too, it turns out and 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:45.240 they're not getting the full picture. Well, you say, one 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:47.520 thing Joe Rogan says a lot of times of his 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:50.320 podcast about the Office of the President is that it's 0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:54.760 it's an impossible job. It's a task we've given some one, 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:58.920 one person that's it's seemingly impossible to achieve. You know, 0:20:59.000 --> 0:21:01.359 in the in Mike Row versions of that Secretary of 0:21:01.359 --> 0:21:05.240 Interior is an equally impossible job to to put together. 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:08.240 You know, you are you are, and you're just expected 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:10.399 to be a figurehead but also a policy expert at 0:21:10.400 --> 0:21:12.080 the same time. You know, you're expected to be a 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:15.479 public speaker, but also um, someone that can get down 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:17.280 the weeds and understands the people. I mean, that's a 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:20.199 tough thing to do. Yeah, we just be out on 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:27.560 the construction site and uh, the the future homeowner would 0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:31.439 show up on occasion, and you know, they're paying for 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:33.040 all this stuff, so they certainly have a right to 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:40.000 be there. But they Yeah, what's building you know, door 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:45.600 frame ers, whatever, and yeah, why are you doing it 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:48.680 that way? What about this way? Like you ever build 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:52.399 one of these before? Nope? I go okay, well you 0:21:52.440 --> 0:21:54.400 want to just trust me on this one. And then 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:59.240 you think about voting for the president of the United States, 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:04.800 Like how many people have some knowledge of that how 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:09.160 that actually works? Like it's it's kind of a bizarre thing. 0:22:09.840 --> 0:22:11.560 I don't want you tell me how to swing a hammer, 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:13.679 because I know how to swing a hammer. Not a 0:22:13.680 --> 0:22:16.280 whole lot of people know how to swing that hammer. Yeah, 0:22:16.440 --> 0:22:19.359 I mean it's it's going into the posse and that. 0:22:19.520 --> 0:22:22.560 And I would say I joined the National Board of 0:22:22.560 --> 0:22:24.560 b h A about a year ago, and you just 0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:28.359 have been elected, So congratulations and welcome, Thank you. I 0:22:28.680 --> 0:22:31.639 feel like it's a little bit like somebody giving you 0:22:31.680 --> 0:22:35.640 a puppy. Yeah, we're like, oh, great puppy. Yeah it's nice. 0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:39.840 Press release about that puppy was fun. But now I 0:22:39.840 --> 0:22:42.280 got this puppy and shipping everybody. Yeah, and if it 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:46.399 needs training and taking up a lot of time, yeah, um, 0:22:46.520 --> 0:22:48.520 I think part of that for me. You know, I'm 0:22:48.560 --> 0:22:52.960 not uh board type of fella. You know, I don't 0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:54.920 never say, I never saw myself. I saw boards, is 0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:59.040 like groups of people that were important. UM. And when 0:22:59.080 --> 0:23:01.560 I got on there, though, I I slowly started to 0:23:01.600 --> 0:23:05.080 realize the things that I did not know. Not that 0:23:05.119 --> 0:23:07.400 I didn't know anything about public lands or the policies 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:10.359 or or have strong beliefs about the right way to 0:23:10.400 --> 0:23:13.000 do it, but some of the machinations and some of 0:23:13.000 --> 0:23:16.960 the things that go on inside of the of a 0:23:17.040 --> 0:23:20.159 group like b h A and then the larger conservation organization, 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:23.439 you know, spectrum as a whole. There's a lot of 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:26.639 things that I did not know. And I'm glad I 0:23:26.640 --> 0:23:28.600 did it, just because you know, it has been a 0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:31.520 master class in and how those things work, and how 0:23:31.520 --> 0:23:34.040 policy gets created, and how it gets pushed from one 0:23:34.080 --> 0:23:37.720 side to the other UM and how influence happens. And 0:23:38.320 --> 0:23:41.320 I've learned quite a bit and I'm happy to have 0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:43.040 that knowledge and maybe be able to tell some other 0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:46.840 folks like, hey, this is this is why this door 0:23:46.880 --> 0:23:49.879 frames on this door like I did, maybe I didn't. 0:23:50.080 --> 0:23:52.199 This is why that that was built that. Yeah, Like 0:23:52.359 --> 0:23:53.959 now I can look at the house that is our 0:23:54.080 --> 0:23:56.200 collective conservation efforts will be like, wow, that's why the 0:23:56.240 --> 0:23:58.760 windows look like that that's why the door looks like that, UM, 0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:01.679 And I couldn't before and so that's been a pretty 0:24:02.160 --> 0:24:06.919 pretty great experience. UM. But but one that goes to 0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:09.680