Speaker 1: Hey guys, welcome to I've never said this before with me.
Speaker 1: Tommy de Dario, one of the greatest athletes in the world,
Speaker 1: joins my show today and man, what a conversation you
Speaker 1: are about to hear. The five time Olympic medalist Tom
Speaker 1: Daily dove his way into the studio. See what I
Speaker 1: did there. It's a chat all about his incredible life.
Speaker 1: His new documentary, Tom Daily one point six Seconds is
Speaker 1: out now and we are covering it all. Tom's giving
Speaker 1: us a really intimate look at the challenges of growing
Speaker 1: up in the public eye and facing physical and mental
Speaker 1: pressures of being his country's big metal hope. He emotionally
Speaker 1: discusses losing his father Roberts, cancer, and coming out in
Speaker 1: the media, and of course he opens up about making
Speaker 1: the decision to retire from the competition at the age
Speaker 1: of thirty, and so much more. Tom's not only a
Speaker 1: sporting legend, but he's a champion for important social issues
Speaker 1: and he has shaped the world far beyond what I
Speaker 1: imagine he even thought was possible. And a big shout
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Speaker 1: is my Pride series with travel Guard about how the
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Speaker 1: dot com for more information on that. And let's see
Speaker 1: if today we can get Tom to say something that
Speaker 1: he has never said before. Tom Daily, how are you,
Speaker 1: my friend?
Speaker 2: I am doing alright, you know, a little bit tired,
Speaker 2: but nothing like I've ever been before since.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you look refreshed off of the plane. I know.
Speaker 2: I feel like this last week or so, I've just
Speaker 2: been traveling here, there and everywhere. But it's been good.
Speaker 2: It's been nice to be able to, you know, just
Speaker 2: get out and about and you know, explore a little.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and for good reason you're traveling. You have an
Speaker 1: amazing documentary which we're going to get to, of course,
Speaker 1: but I have to start by telling you I'm a
Speaker 1: little disappointed. Oh no, I really thought you'd be sitting
Speaker 1: across from me. We knitwhere, yes, or knitting a new project,
Speaker 1: and here you are without it. And I don't understand
Speaker 1: why you decided to show up and not do that,
Speaker 1: but I'll have to get over it.
Speaker 2: I know double denim instead. Although I do have my
Speaker 2: knitting in my bag, so not with me here, but
Speaker 2: it's in the car so I do carry it with
Speaker 2: me absolutely everywhere, which sometimes I get some weird looks
Speaker 2: coming through TSA with a whole set of knitting needles,
Speaker 2: because they you know, if you were to scan that
Speaker 2: it might look slightly weird.
Speaker 1: I'm surprised you can bring big needles through the TSA.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and scissors as long as they're smaller than four inches.
Speaker 1: Oh good to know, Good to know. I still laugh
Speaker 1: about that photo when I saw you in the stands
Speaker 1: knitting your your sweater was it?
Speaker 2: I was knitting in total, I was nitting this like cardigan. Basically,
Speaker 2: I started knitting because my coach told me that I
Speaker 2: was always on the go, always, I never just sat still,
Speaker 2: and that I wasn't very good at resting and recovering.
Speaker 2: So was then my husband, who said to me, why
Speaker 2: don't you try knitting because people on film sets he
Speaker 2: works in film and TV, like, why don't you try knitting?
Speaker 2: And I was like, you know, okay, sure, why not.
Speaker 2: So I got my needles, got my yarn, went onto
Speaker 2: the YouTube University and taught myself out to knit, and
Speaker 2: I've he it became my obsession honestly.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I feel like it's really good for anxiety too.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm able like this is the one time
Speaker 2: of the day where my mind is completely quiet and
Speaker 2: I love that, and it like I'm able to pass
Speaker 2: so much time I can be really present. I genuinely
Speaker 2: think that knitting was my superpower and the reason why
Speaker 2: I was able to win Ann't be Gone medal in
Speaker 2: Tokyo because it was like, during like the COVID Olympics,
Speaker 2: there was so much time to overthink everything, and you know,
Speaker 2: knitting kind of like took that away. So yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: grateful for knitting.
Speaker 1: That's so cool. Well, there is something about that keeps
Speaker 1: you super present, right, which is I feel like anyone
Speaker 1: who wants to be successful at anything has to have
Speaker 1: that mindset.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you have to be able to be
Speaker 2: extremely present focused on the process and enjoy the process
Speaker 2: as well, because although yes, you want to have a
Speaker 2: successful outcome, that's not always the case. So as long
Speaker 2: as you can enjoy the process, it's still worth it regardless.
Speaker 1: Good for you, man, Well, your documentary one point six
Speaker 1: seconds is beautiful. Oh beautiful. I watched it with my husband.
Speaker 1: We just we absolutely loved it and thought it was
Speaker 1: so raw and open and you know, vulnerable and emotional.
Speaker 1: So I guess to kick this off, why was this
Speaker 1: the right time in your life to put something like
Speaker 1: that out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the production company came to me in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty three. I want to say it was two
Speaker 2: years after the Tokyo Olympics, because I hadn't died for
Speaker 2: two years at that point, I thought I was retired,
Speaker 2: and they came to me right at the time when
Speaker 2: I was deciding maybe I should come back for one
Speaker 2: more Olympic Games in Paris so that my kids could
Speaker 2: see me compete. And I think the big thing for
Speaker 2: me was I had no idea that so much of
Speaker 2: the archival footage existed that my dad had filmed, so
Speaker 2: lots of the documentary was me seeing things for the
Speaker 2: very first time, and I don't know, retirement was on
Speaker 2: the card. So I like being able to sum up
Speaker 2: my whole career and then also be able to have
Speaker 2: something so that my kids in the future can look
Speaker 2: back and see everything that their papa like achieved and did.
Speaker 2: There was something about that that I was excited so
Speaker 2: that they could see everything in one place.
Speaker 1: Wow. I mean, it's remarkable you've accomplished. You began diving
Speaker 1: around seventy eight, right, you went to the Olympics at fourteen. Yes,
Speaker 1: you won your first World champion at fifteen. Yes, that's
Speaker 1: a lot of action very early on in your life,
Speaker 1: and you became known as this kind of prodigy diver. Right,
Speaker 1: So as you're in this new chapter of your life,
Speaker 1: who is Tom Daily without that?
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, good question. And I still feel like I'm
Speaker 2: figuring that out because diving was such a big part
Speaker 2: of my life from the age of seven up until
Speaker 2: I was thirty. So there's like now that retirement. It's
Speaker 2: weird to say the our word retirement because I'm like,
Speaker 2: you know, yes, I'm retired, but it's only from like
Speaker 2: my first career in diving. Because now I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 2: what am I going to do with my day. I
Speaker 2: used to know exactly what time I was waking up,
Speaker 2: when I was going to have for breakfast, when I
Speaker 2: was going to have my breakfast, what time I was
Speaker 2: starting training, when I was going to be home, where
Speaker 2: I was going to be traveling, what competition, And now
Speaker 2: all of that is out the window. Routine has got.
Speaker 2: The only structure I have now really is a school
Speaker 2: drop off and school pickup for my kids, and that's
Speaker 2: kind of the thing that I revolved my day around now.
Speaker 2: But other than that, it's like everything is kind of
Speaker 2: like slotted in and people are like, oh, when can
Speaker 2: you do this, And I'm like, I guess whenever you want,
Speaker 2: But then like I don't know because I don't know
Speaker 2: what could be happening that day. Whereas before I knew
Speaker 2: I was going to be training, let's say, like eight
Speaker 2: till ten thirty and then one thirty till four, so
Speaker 2: I knew that if there was something I was going
Speaker 2: to have to do, it's either going to be in
Speaker 2: and around those times, Whereas now it's kind of like
Speaker 2: a you know, bitten it in there, bitten it in there,
Speaker 2: and just yeah, live in my life without too many
Speaker 2: routines and structures.
Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, you're figuring out that person who you
Speaker 1: will step into still, right, which I imagine is liberating, but
Speaker 1: also probably if you're someone like me who's a little
Speaker 1: type A and from watching a documentary you do like
Speaker 1: routine and structure, it is also very weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah, It's something that when I was in diving, all
Speaker 2: I ever wanted to do was be like, oh, I
Speaker 2: just want to break free of this structure and just
Speaker 2: be able to go and do something if I want
Speaker 2: to go and do it, whereas now I can, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 2: I don't know if I really like that, Like it
Speaker 2: was liberating for a while, but then I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 2: now I actually quite enjoyed that structure of what I'm
Speaker 2: going to And it's kind of I guess lots of
Speaker 2: people might have the similar thing if they're not in
Speaker 2: a regular, like nine to five job. It's like when
Speaker 2: do you start working, when do you stop? What do
Speaker 2: you do? How often are you doing it? And then
Speaker 2: you end up finding yourself incredibly busy all the time,
Speaker 2: and but it's it's been good, and this past year
Speaker 2: has been incredibly busy.
Speaker 1: So what would you say after living such a very
Speaker 1: public life and having media and the public so intertwined
Speaker 1: in your personal life and professional life. What would you
Speaker 1: say is one of the biggest misconceptions about you.
Speaker 2: Oh, I think lots of people might consider me to
Speaker 2: be someone that is like very go go go all
Speaker 2: about winning an Olympic gold medal. I'm very serious and
Speaker 2: driven towards that, and I do think that I'm probably
Speaker 2: one of the more unseerious people. And it was only
Speaker 2: really as I got older that I started to care
Speaker 2: less about what other people thought, so I was able
Speaker 2: to be more me because you know, growing up, I
Speaker 2: feel like I was always I'm such a people pleaser,
Speaker 2: so I feel like I was always giving people what
Speaker 2: I thought they wanted to hear from me, and what
Speaker 2: they thought I wanted them to be they wanted me
Speaker 2: to be. Like, So I think now I'm a lot
Speaker 2: more like I have a different perspective on life. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess that's not really a misconcier. But I guess
Speaker 2: I'm not just about the gold medals. Maybe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, I think it's important to say that because
Speaker 1: when you're such a high achiever and you have accomplished
Speaker 1: so much, you can be kind of put in this
Speaker 1: category of like that's your only focus, and clearly it's not.
Speaker 1: I mean, you're a family man, yeah, her husband. You're
Speaker 1: so much more than just That's.
Speaker 2: The danger though. If you want to win an Olympic
Speaker 2: gold medal, if you want to be the best at
Speaker 2: what you do, it can't be your only thing because
Speaker 2: if it is your only thing, you put all of
Speaker 2: your self worth and self esteem into that one thing
Speaker 2: and what you do, and you have to realize that
Speaker 2: you're more than what you do. Yeah, and what you do.
Speaker 2: I mean I always say, like, you know, doing sport,
Speaker 2: it's not saving lives. I'm not like a brain surgeon
Speaker 2: or a heart surgeon. So if you are a heart
Speaker 2: surgeon or brain surgeon, I'm sorry you do what you
Speaker 2: do every day does really matter. But I always just
Speaker 2: I always try to tell myself when I was sriving
Speaker 2: that at the end of the day, it's just a game. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just a game. Yeah, it could be monopoly with
Speaker 2: your family. Yeah, the boards have been flipped with that too.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm very competitive, but I like to think
Speaker 2: of you know, everything, you're able to be able to
Speaker 2: put everything you do into perspective to make it feel
Speaker 2: smaller and sometimes that's what I find to be really helpful.
Speaker 1: Well, and I have to say, based off what you
Speaker 1: just said, you know you're an athlete, which I would
Speaker 1: argue is also a type of an artist, right, and
Speaker 1: you inspire so many people to dream and go after
Speaker 1: what it is they want to go after. So yes,
Speaker 1: it's not brain surgery, but I would argue it is
Speaker 1: equally as important because in this day and age that
Speaker 1: we live in, where there can be so much doom
Speaker 1: and gloom, you give people that light. So don't take
Speaker 1: that away from what you do either, because it is important.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I think it's the difference is with when
Speaker 2: you go into an Olympic Games and you know it
Speaker 2: is the biggest thing that you've been working for. It's
Speaker 2: what all your training has come up to for. You
Speaker 2: train six hours a day, six days a week for
Speaker 2: four years for that one day, and it can feel
Speaker 2: like it is the biggest thing that's ever happened in
Speaker 2: your life, because for the most part, it probably is
Speaker 2: working towards that thing. But if you have that on
Speaker 2: your plate, it is so terrifying and there's so much
Speaker 2: pressure and anxiety that comes down to perfect those one
Speaker 2: point six seconds.
Speaker 1: Of a dive.
Speaker 2: So now I if I am only thinking about that
Speaker 2: standing down, I'm terrified. So I have to come up
Speaker 2: with ways for myself to be able to let go
Speaker 2: of that and break free of that, you know, anxiety
Speaker 2: and pressure. And for me, that is just making it
Speaker 2: feel as little and small as possible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that makes total sense. And I imagine having
Speaker 1: a support system along the way has also helped with
Speaker 1: all of that and been tremendous. And in the documentary
Speaker 1: we see the beautiful relationship with you and your parents
Speaker 1: and your father who was literally by your side, yeah,
Speaker 1: for everything, and you open up about losing him and
Speaker 1: so many people have gone through that and what that
Speaker 1: grief was like for you, and your way to grieve
Speaker 1: kind of was jumping back into work at first, right
Speaker 1: and going going, going, exactly.
Speaker 2: I wasn't very good at the whole grieving thing. I
Speaker 2: think for lots of people, you always think of your
Speaker 2: parents as invincible that then you know they're always going
Speaker 2: to be around. And you know, my dad was one
Speaker 2: of my biggest or the biggest cheerleader I had in
Speaker 2: my life. He was there for every training session, every
Speaker 2: common whether it was in the UK or abroad, wherever
Speaker 2: it was. He was there with his giant Union flag,
Speaker 2: waving it in people's faces. He didn't care. And you know,
Speaker 2: when I lost him in twenty eleven, it was something
Speaker 2: that was so incredibly difficult for our whole family, and
Speaker 2: it got to a point where I was like, I
Speaker 2: didn't know what to I didn't know what to do,
Speaker 2: I didn't know how to cope. So I ended up
Speaker 2: just carrying on, going right back to the diving pool,
Speaker 2: right back into it, and not really allowing myself to
Speaker 2: have time to think about what was coming next. And
Speaker 2: for me, it was only when I met my husband
Speaker 2: when he started asking me like, why don't you speak
Speaker 2: about your dad? Why don't you do anything that celebrates
Speaker 2: him in that way? And I think it was always
Speaker 2: because you know, as British people were very like, we
Speaker 2: don't want to talk about anything. We're very like, you know,
Speaker 2: we're going to go from one thing to the next
Speaker 2: and not really talk about our feelings. So it took
Speaker 2: me a while to actually get to a point where
Speaker 2: I felt like I was able to really open up
Speaker 2: and let that guard down, because you know, you just
Speaker 2: want to keep going on. You don't want to make
Speaker 2: the other I always just felt like I didn't want
Speaker 2: to make other people feel uncomfortable with my with my issues.
Speaker 1: If you like, it's not funny you were more worried
Speaker 1: about other people than processing what you were going through.
Speaker 2: I know. It's like that's just where I'm quite a
Speaker 2: people pleaser. So I always just a'm like, yeah, yeah, sure,
Speaker 2: do no worries, and you know, sometimes that's that's something
Speaker 2: I'm trying to work on a little bit more. But
Speaker 2: it's something that I uh, it's for the longest of times,
Speaker 2: I was very much just wanting I think that comes
Speaker 2: from growing up gay as well. It's like you always
Speaker 2: just want to make sure people don't find out that
Speaker 2: thing about you that might make them hate you. And
Speaker 2: you know, I was always trying to just be the
Speaker 2: you know, I feel like it's the I don't know
Speaker 2: if this is what they call, but it's like the
Speaker 2: best little boy syndrome. You know, you want to be
Speaker 2: like the best that you can be so that they
Speaker 2: didn't care who you were or they didn't read too
Speaker 2: much into any of that. And it's so I think
Speaker 2: that's just the era of growing up then was a
Speaker 2: bit of a.
Speaker 1: Challenge yeah, yeah, for sure. And that's something I think
Speaker 1: we kind of by default as gay men, still experience
Speaker 1: as we continue going through this life in little moments,
Speaker 1: and then we have to check ourselves like, oh wait, no,
Speaker 1: I don't need to still think like that or act
Speaker 1: like that, because it is something that we were kind
Speaker 1: of brought up to be, Like, yeah, and I grew up.
Speaker 2: In a small town. I'm not sure where did you
Speaker 2: grow up?
Speaker 1: Small town? Yeah?
Speaker 2: See, I grew up in Plymouth in the southwest of
Speaker 2: the UK, and I didn't know of I didn't know
Speaker 2: anyone gay like I, you know, you saw you know,
Speaker 2: Will and Grace or any kind of gay person. Was
Speaker 2: extremely flamboyant, and lots of people on the in Plymouth
Speaker 2: would talk very you know, in derogatory terms around these people.
Speaker 2: So I was like, oh my gosh, Like, well, you're
Speaker 2: growing up and you realize that thing about you that
Speaker 2: is so what society tells you is wrong. You always
Speaker 2: want to try and overcompensate for that. And yeah, I
Speaker 2: think that always will stick with you, like you say, forever,
Speaker 2: even as you get older. You like, there's sometimes I'm like,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, like I can't believe I did that
Speaker 2: or can't believe I said that, what are other people
Speaker 2: going to think? And I'm really hopeful for this next
Speaker 2: generation that you know, people can just grow up just
Speaker 2: being themselves and have parents and family members around them
Speaker 2: that just love them for who they are.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be nice?
Speaker 2: Wouldn't it be lovely?
Speaker 1: That would be so nice.
Speaker 2: I always just you know, like and also just the
Speaker 2: fact that I find it weird that people care so
Speaker 2: much about what people get up to in their private
Speaker 2: life anyway, Like, if you're a good athlete, you're a
Speaker 2: good athlete. Yeah, if you're a good podcast host, you
Speaker 2: a good podcast. It doesn't matter, right, Like, it does
Speaker 2: not matter about like anything else. If you get it,
Speaker 2: what you do surrender us.
Speaker 1: Well, I think it's really cool that you were in
Speaker 1: this high profile career, everybody was in your business and
Speaker 1: you still allowed yourself the chance to find love and
Speaker 1: be who you knew you were always meant to be, right,
Speaker 1: and you did meet your husband, which I feel like
Speaker 1: a wink face is is what needs to be given
Speaker 1: all the credit for why you twour together.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the night we met, it was actually funny because
Speaker 2: it wasn't him that came over and asked for my number.
Speaker 2: It was my well, it was his assistant. He was
Speaker 2: very cute. Came over and Gate said, oh, Lance wants
Speaker 2: your your number, can you put it in? And I
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, sure, So I put my number in
Speaker 2: and then put a winky face at the end of it.
Speaker 2: And that's when Lance said that no heterosexual man would
Speaker 2: ever put a winky face at the end of their number.
Speaker 2: And that's when he knew. And that was twelve and
Speaker 2: a bit years ago. Now, wow, just crazy wow.
Speaker 1: And you weren't out to the public at the time.
Speaker 2: No, I wasn't, which was again a really scary thing
Speaker 2: because like growing up in the UK, it was like
Speaker 2: every single decision, every single thing that I did, was
Speaker 2: under some kind of media scrutiny. Like I had to
Speaker 2: know coming back from my first Olympics at fourteen, going
Speaker 2: back to school and dealing with bullying and the whole
Speaker 2: the UK, knowing that I was going through that, the
Speaker 2: whole of the UK, knowing that I'd lost my dad,
Speaker 2: all of these things that I was having to deal
Speaker 2: with quite publicly, and now, you know, falling in love
Speaker 2: and being like, oh my gosh, what am I going
Speaker 2: to do here now? Because growing up is tough enough anyway,
Speaker 2: but then having to like explore your sexuality in a
Speaker 2: kind of hidden way and not really knowing what you
Speaker 2: can do. You don't want to get caught. But then
Speaker 2: also you don't want to be ashamed of who you are.
Speaker 2: You don't want other people to think you're a shape.
Speaker 2: So it was really like there was so much going
Speaker 2: through my head at that point. It was it was
Speaker 2: a really challenging time, and I felt like that was
Speaker 2: why I decided to come out in the end of
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen, because I'd met Lance in the march. I
Speaker 2: told my friends and family, and it got to the
Speaker 2: point where I was asked in an interview what I
Speaker 2: thought of you know, or they said something like, what,
Speaker 2: you have lots of gay fans. Why do you think
Speaker 2: that is? And I was like, well, probably because I'm
Speaker 2: half naked all the time, people that wear more close
Speaker 2: to bed than they do to work. So then they
Speaker 2: were like, okay, what about the people that think that
Speaker 2: you're gay? And I was like, what does it matter
Speaker 2: if I am? Like, it doesn't matter, And then the
Speaker 2: headline was that I am not gay, but I don't
Speaker 2: care if you think I am, and I was so like,
Speaker 2: I was like really frustrated that that had kind of
Speaker 2: been taken that way. So then I got to a
Speaker 2: point I was like, you know what, it's time to
Speaker 2: come out. And I came out in a way that
Speaker 2: was the way that I knew how and that was
Speaker 2: through YouTube or through social media, because I didn't want
Speaker 2: anybody to ask any follow up questions. I didn't want
Speaker 2: anybody to twist my words. I just wanted to be
Speaker 2: able to say exactly what I wanted to say at
Speaker 2: the time. And I think there was something that became
Speaker 2: to be quite powerful, and I believe now it's very
Speaker 2: powerful with social media, is being able to have a
Speaker 2: little bit more control over your narrative and not just
Speaker 2: kind of letting other people take control of that.
Speaker 1: And I love that you did that, even when I
Speaker 1: believe it was your management team at first was not
Speaker 1: for you being out, Yeah right, No, No, it was.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was really terrified about coming out because I
Speaker 2: was told i'd lose sponsorship. I was told I would
Speaker 2: not be able to compete in certain countries, and it
Speaker 2: was really kind of like they had built it up
Speaker 2: that it was going to be like, you know, apocalyptic,
Speaker 2: and I you know, any coming out is hard enough
Speaker 2: anyway for anyone, no matter if you're in a place
Speaker 2: where it's super easy to come out or but it's
Speaker 2: it really felt like it was going to It was
Speaker 2: like coming up to this cliff where I was like, well,
Speaker 2: I'm just this is this is the edge, and I
Speaker 2: am about to post this video and I have no
Speaker 2: idea what is going to be what's going to happen
Speaker 2: on the other side of this, And the reception was
Speaker 2: overwhelmingly positive. I mean, of course you can always get
Speaker 2: a few like derogatory things, but it was overwhelmingly positive.
Speaker 2: And I felt for the first time I could go
Speaker 2: into a competition, go into training, and just have that
Speaker 2: weight lifted off of me. And I felt that it
Speaker 2: was like so nice to be able to just have
Speaker 2: that be just feel like I could just be me.
Speaker 1: What a gift you gave yourself in that moment, even
Speaker 1: though you were scared and probably a little uneasy of
Speaker 1: what this would mean for your professional career you work
Speaker 1: so hard for, but you still allow yourself to go
Speaker 1: forward and openly speak your truth, which I think is
Speaker 1: really hard and really admirable for so many people listening
Speaker 1: right now who might be in a position we both were,
Speaker 1: you know, years ago, who are struggling with their identity
Speaker 1: or their sexuality. What would you say to them?
Speaker 2: I would say, find So I have my best friend,
Speaker 2: Sophie was the first person that I told, and I
Speaker 2: would say, find your Sophie, find your person that you
Speaker 2: can confide in. And because saying it out loud to
Speaker 2: one other person changes everything keeping I kept so much
Speaker 2: to myself for the longest time, and I found it
Speaker 2: so difficult to just live each day without having to
Speaker 2: think about every single thing. I'd said, what happens if
Speaker 2: I do this, what happens if I say something in
Speaker 2: this kind of way, and just being able to say
Speaker 2: it to one person just allows you to be Like,
Speaker 2: if you can be your one hundred percent yourself with
Speaker 2: one person, it just allows you to just finally live
Speaker 2: like because I would have then times where Sophie would
Speaker 2: come over and we would have like din and I
Speaker 2: could just be me. Not that I would be any different,
Speaker 2: but I just never had to worry about anything like
Speaker 2: slipping up or like saying something or whatever it may
Speaker 2: have been. And so I would say I would encourage
Speaker 2: people to be able to find that person that they
Speaker 2: can really confide in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, even if they're not ready to tell everybody, just
Speaker 1: having someone is so important.
Speaker 2: Someone that they can trust, just to be able to
Speaker 2: you know, really, you know. And of course it takes
Speaker 2: time and it's difficult to find those people and I'm
Speaker 2: really lucky to have had those people around me.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. I love that, and I love that we
Speaker 1: see in this documentary so much about that because it
Speaker 1: is an important piece of your life and your story
Speaker 1: that I think a lot of people will be able
Speaker 1: to relate to. And you open up about so many
Speaker 1: other things. And I don't want to go into everything
Speaker 1: because people need to watch it. But one of the
Speaker 1: things that definitely struck me was your relationship with body.
Speaker 1: And I think as men, we don't talk about that
Speaker 1: a lot. And I thought that was really cool you
Speaker 1: put it out there, and also really sad that somebody
Speaker 1: professionally made you think that something was wrong with you
Speaker 1: at a certain point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got it. Was like right before the London
Speaker 2: twenty twelve Olympics, my performance director said that I needed
Speaker 2: to lose weight and that I was overweight and he
Speaker 2: wanted to need to look more like I did in
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight, but I mean I was coming
Speaker 2: up for eighteen and in twentyd and eight, I was fourteen,
Speaker 2: and I'm you know, an eighteen year old's never going
Speaker 2: to look like a fourteen year old again. And it
Speaker 2: was the first time that people I felt like people
Speaker 2: were looking at my body more in not just a
Speaker 2: performance way, as the way that it looked. And ever
Speaker 2: since then I kind of spiraled into this not really
Speaker 2: knowing what to do with that. I didn't have the
Speaker 2: nutritional information I didn't have, and I didn't really want
Speaker 2: to bring too much up with my psychologists because men
Speaker 2: didn't have eating disorders. Men didn't have any problems with,
Speaker 2: you know, struggling to figure out what they should or
Speaker 2: shouldn't eat, and then not eating and then eating too
Speaker 2: much and then completely binging and then have to do
Speaker 2: feeling so guilty you have to do something about that,
Speaker 2: and then it kind of just spiraled from there. And
Speaker 2: what was hard is because I know rationally that I
Speaker 2: know that I'm doing fine and it's all good, but
Speaker 2: there's just this thing in the back of your head
Speaker 2: that makes you question every single thing that you eat,
Speaker 2: every single thing that you do, feeling guilty for like
Speaker 2: feeling like you. And I would weigh myself every single day.
Speaker 2: The coaches would make me weigh myself and if you
Speaker 2: weren't at the right way, you'd have to go and
Speaker 2: run until you lost weight. And it was all of
Speaker 2: these things and it really created an unhealthy body image
Speaker 2: thing where And also there's such high standards when it
Speaker 2: comes to things on social media, and it's and no
Speaker 2: matter how rationally you can think in being able to
Speaker 2: say I'm doing fine, like we're good, there's always something.
Speaker 2: There's always something in the back of your head. And
Speaker 2: I know people think, oh, gosh, he's doing all right,
Speaker 2: like boohoo, poor you. But like I know rationally that yes,
Speaker 2: I know, but it's not as simple as that, and
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be like and that's something that I've had
Speaker 2: to It's been one of my biggest struggles in my life, honestly,
Speaker 2: with body image. And I know that seems extreme to say,
Speaker 2: but it's you know, when you spend your whole life
Speaker 2: out on a platform with no clothes on, it's a
Speaker 2: very vulnerable position to be in. And if you're you've
Speaker 2: gone from just being able to not care at all
Speaker 2: with what you're wearing and out competing and doing your
Speaker 2: thing and having the time of your life to then
Speaker 2: somebody commenting on that and you're like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: people are looking at me like that was the first
Speaker 2: time that I didn't I thought, oh god, Like every
Speaker 2: time I go out there, people are looking at if
Speaker 2: I'm fat or not. And it played with my head
Speaker 2: like really bad for a really long time. And I
Speaker 2: feel like I'm getting better with it now, but you know,
Speaker 2: it's still plays on my mind.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's still something I'm sure you have to work
Speaker 1: throughout certain times, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think it's also because I've spent my whole
Speaker 2: life as an athlete, people assume that I'm just going
Speaker 2: to be in the best shape all year round, right,
Speaker 2: There's no ups and downs to it. So then if
Speaker 2: you go to like a I know this is niche,
Speaker 2: but like if you go to a photo shoot or
Speaker 2: you go to anything like that, and then they're like,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, well you like take your top off and
Speaker 2: you're like, oh god, like you know, I'm And it's
Speaker 2: hard now as a retired athlete as well, going into
Speaker 2: anything where you're like, okay, well, normally I would be
Speaker 2: training six hours a day, six days a week and
Speaker 2: i'd be, you know, in pretty good condition. Now like
Speaker 2: my training regime is not the same, and it's just
Speaker 2: like and now everything is slightly different, and so then
Speaker 2: you have it all kind of triggers things in different ways.
Speaker 2: But you know, it's again, it's something that I have
Speaker 2: to I just have to keep working well.
Speaker 1: And I think it's important to talk about too, because
Speaker 1: when you have a certain type of and if this
Speaker 1: phrase isn't correct, forgive me, but what I interpret as
Speaker 1: like a body dysmorphia, you can't control what you think.
Speaker 1: So even someone on the outside saying, well Tom looks great,
Speaker 1: and I don't understand, and that's just so silly that yeah, yes,
Speaker 1: sure that's great, but you can't control what you think
Speaker 1: when you go through something like that. And I have
Speaker 1: a background. I came from the modeling world and I
Speaker 1: saw it all the time, and I had agents say
Speaker 1: to me, you know, I was a former gymnast and
Speaker 1: they'd say your back, stupid, you're next, too fat, like
Speaker 1: all the things that to fuck with you, and you
Speaker 1: can't help that. It's part of when you're learning who
Speaker 1: you are and coming to terms with who you're going
Speaker 1: to be. Those opinions matter, yeah, and it takes a
Speaker 1: while to shake them, sometimes totally.
Speaker 2: And it's you know, of course, like if you were
Speaker 2: able to think about it rationally, it wouldn't be an issue.
Speaker 2: But that's the problem. And I think lots of men,
Speaker 2: especially in the gay community, really do struggle with that
Speaker 2: because they it's there's so many standards out there, and
Speaker 2: you're always chasing that something else, and although you may
Speaker 2: be the person that the somebody is aiming towards getting towards,
Speaker 2: you're also then working towards getting to somebody else in
Speaker 2: terms of like body aesthetic that you might be going for.
Speaker 2: And it's so it's this constant thing and then you
Speaker 2: know it's annoyay. It's that you find your like hating
Speaker 2: the way that you look, and then you look back,
Speaker 2: and then in two years time goes by and then
Speaker 2: you look back, you know, like, oh my gosh, I
Speaker 2: wish I look like that again. And then it's this
Speaker 2: about never being happy with like where you're at. And
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's like a constant thing around
Speaker 2: perfectionism that I've had in sport or anything like that,
Speaker 2: but I feel like there are more men than probably
Speaker 2: care to admit that worry about that stuff as.
Speaker 1: Well, one hundred percent. That's why I said earlier, it's
Speaker 1: so important that you brought it up. And whether everybody
Speaker 1: understands it or not, that's not your business, right because
Speaker 1: you're speaking your truth and you hope that it can
Speaker 1: help somebody who does go through something in a similar way.
Speaker 1: So I think that that alone is a message we
Speaker 1: need more of. And I'm glad that it's in the
Speaker 1: documentary and that you got to speak about it more
Speaker 1: today because we need that as men. We need to
Speaker 1: stop pretending like everything's always okay and we're macho and
Speaker 1: don't feel and go through the same shit that a
Speaker 1: lot of women go through. It's human nature, I know.
Speaker 2: And that's that's another thing when it came to the
Speaker 2: grieving process and my dad, like, it's just there's always
Speaker 2: a these stereotypes of what a man should be, and like,
Speaker 2: at the end of the day, a man can be
Speaker 2: so many different things, and I think we have to,
Speaker 2: you know, embrace our emotions more. And I just really
Speaker 2: struggle with that. I always have my guard up around
Speaker 2: that stuff.
Speaker 1: So, yeah, yeah, what is your relationship with grief like today?
Speaker 1: Because it's something that again we don't speak about a lot,
Speaker 1: and that happened. You lost your dad a while ago now,
Speaker 1: but do you still have a relationship you're working through
Speaker 1: with grief?
Speaker 2: Yes, I mean grief kind of like is always there, right,
Speaker 2: And I feel like this documentary really kind of tapped
Speaker 2: into that in a weird kind of like therapy way.
Speaker 2: But I still find myself I lost my granddad last year,
Speaker 2: and I also found myself kind of like not really
Speaker 2: acknowledging it and kind of being like, well, you know,
Speaker 2: that happened, move on, and like not being able to.
Speaker 2: It's almost like sometimes when things feel so bad, you
Speaker 2: just like you don't acknowledge that it happen. And I
Speaker 2: feel like that's almost what's happened. Even at the time,
Speaker 2: that's what happened with my dad, Like I felt like
Speaker 2: his memory was still so alive that it was you know,
Speaker 2: he was still around. But now I find myself having
Speaker 2: days where I'm like, oh, gosh, he's like not forgetting
Speaker 2: that he was around, but like you have a day
Speaker 2: where you don't he isn't necessarily at the front of
Speaker 2: mine at every single moment, and you're like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 2: Like that's and I feel bad for that, and then
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh should I like, how should he be
Speaker 2: involved in my life now that he's no longer here?
Speaker 2: And how often should I be thinking of him? Is
Speaker 2: that everything that I because now I'm a dad myself,
Speaker 2: so my all my time and effort and energy goes
Speaker 2: into them, and like, once you kind of go for
Speaker 2: that full circle moment, it really feels I don't know,
Speaker 2: like I understand, Like I can't even imagine what my
Speaker 2: dad was going through finding out that he had this
Speaker 2: terminal diagnosis. And he was thirty five when he found
Speaker 2: out that he was he had this diagnosis, and he
Speaker 2: died when he was forty, so, which is now being
Speaker 2: thirty one that is so like forty is so like
Speaker 2: incredibly young. And you know, he had three kids, Like
Speaker 2: I was the oldest seventeen, My brother was fifteen, and
Speaker 2: my youngest brother was twelve at the time, and so
Speaker 2: they were really young to lose their dad. And it's
Speaker 2: it's just yeah, I think now coming full circle and
Speaker 2: being a parent and seeing the sacrifices that he made
Speaker 2: for us as kids and now being able to do
Speaker 2: the same for my children is you know, I just
Speaker 2: hope that I have the same relationship that I did
Speaker 2: with my dad, and I feel like I have that
Speaker 2: with my kids, which has been so lovely. Like we
Speaker 2: named our oldest son after my dad, so he's a Robbie,
Speaker 2: so it's you know, yeah, it does feel like it's
Speaker 2: and I feel like this is what the documentary kind
Speaker 2: of did. It was like me with my dad and
Speaker 2: kind of getting into like my life and then by
Speaker 2: the end I was able to dive at the Olympics
Speaker 2: in front of my kids and it kind of all
Speaker 2: came full circle.
Speaker 1: It was such a cool moment to see that and
Speaker 1: the pride on your family's faces, you know when that
Speaker 1: moment happened. It's really cool and I love that the
Speaker 1: kids got to experience that and what a proud moment
Speaker 1: that it must have been for them. It's it's beautiful.
Speaker 1: Maybe got me a little emotional watching And I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna lie. Are you tired of everybody asking you if
Speaker 1: you're really retired? Because I know it comes up in
Speaker 1: every interview. Are you over it? Are you tired? Or
Speaker 1: you like, stop asking me.
Speaker 2: I'm tired of retired? No, I know if I'm being honest, like,
Speaker 2: if it wasn't for like the kids and like other
Speaker 2: things and just wanting to be able to live life
Speaker 2: while I still like can I you know, who knows.
Speaker 2: I might have carried on, but I also like most
Speaker 2: divers are like that, they retired between the ages of
Speaker 2: like twenty four and twenty six. I carried on until
Speaker 2: I was thirty, and you know, like my body kind
Speaker 2: of was falling apart. You know, I did get to
Speaker 2: the end of the documentary. When I first watched it,
Speaker 2: I was like, ah, I want to do that again, like,
Speaker 2: because there is nothing no feeling like being able to
Speaker 2: stand on top of an Olympic platform when you're competing
Speaker 2: at the Olympics that you work really hard for, the
Speaker 2: adrenaline rush of it, the excitement of it, the competition
Speaker 2: of it all, and then standing on the top of
Speaker 2: a podium and there is no feeling like that. There
Speaker 2: isn't that. Let's say, there's not a knitting Olympics the
Speaker 2: way you can speed knit and get on top of
Speaker 2: a podium. There isn't There isn't a feeling like that.
Speaker 2: So it's definitely an adjustment to figure out what that
Speaker 2: next thing is for me. But yeah, no, I think
Speaker 2: I'm I'm happy right now being retired.
Speaker 1: Would you ever consider coaching?
Speaker 2: You know, I thought I might have considered coaching. I'd
Speaker 2: definitely be up for mentoring. I do mentor a couple
Speaker 2: of athletes currently, but I coaching. For me, coaches are
Speaker 2: the most under race people on the planet because they
Speaker 2: are there every single training session. They're through the whole thing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they don't do it and they like So for me,
Speaker 2: if I was there for every single training session, every
Speaker 2: single competition, I'd rather do it. Be like, yeah, I'd
Speaker 2: rather do it myself and you know, be involved in
Speaker 2: it and really be in it. But you know, if
Speaker 2: it ever came to it, but yeah, I would definitely coach.
Speaker 2: But for right now, I think there's lots of other
Speaker 2: things I want to do. It might be like I
Speaker 2: feel like, and I know it sounds silly, but I
Speaker 2: feel like coaching for me would feel like a retirement job,
Speaker 2: whereas I kind of want to figure out another career
Speaker 2: before that. Maybe when I'm like, I say retirement job,
Speaker 2: but like maybe the last ten years of my working life,
Speaker 2: i'd work as a coach.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, I think what's cool is the world is
Speaker 1: your oyster we're gonna we're gonna see where you end
Speaker 1: up and what you keep doing, and you, only you
Speaker 1: will figure that out, and you're gonna do what makes
Speaker 1: you happy. You've already accomplished so much, so now it's
Speaker 1: your time to figure out what you want that to
Speaker 1: look like next for you. And in the meantime, you know,
Speaker 1: I hope you have a hell of a lot of
Speaker 1: fun doing it all. I mean, aren't you doing Traders
Speaker 1: coming up?
Speaker 2: I have filmed The Traders, which was so much fun.
Speaker 1: Was that fine?
Speaker 2: It was a lot of fun. And I also just
Speaker 2: finished filming a new TV show called Game of waol.
Speaker 1: I know it sounds sounds like a competition series involving
Speaker 1: knitting exactly.
Speaker 2: It's like a fake off for knitting. I'm hosting this
Speaker 2: TV show. We've got two judges and then there's like
Speaker 2: ten contestants, and each week someone gets cast off, which
Speaker 2: is a knitting pun. If you know how to knit,
Speaker 2: you cast off your stitches, off your needles. It's you know,
Speaker 2: it's I never knew that there were so many puns
Speaker 2: in the world of knitting. I don't actually know how
Speaker 2: much is actually going to be able to be safe
Speaker 2: for TV. To be honest, but it was it was
Speaker 2: a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: Okay, we look forward to both of those. Was it
Speaker 1: while being away for traders because you don't used to
Speaker 1: give up your phone and like all of it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, they have, like I think for this version they
Speaker 2: had some kind of like rules with people with children
Speaker 2: to be able to still have some communication. But it
Speaker 2: was a Yeah, it was a very wild experience, but
Speaker 2: it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: Good for you all part of your next journey, which
Speaker 1: I love, Tom. I could talk to you for hours more.
Speaker 1: I'm just I'm loving this conversation. And no surprise, after
Speaker 1: I watched the documentary, I knew I would. But as
Speaker 1: we start to wrap up, the name of the show
Speaker 1: is called I've never said this before, and it was
Speaker 1: born because I cover a lot of red carpets and
Speaker 1: press junkets where you have three minutes maybe five minutes
Speaker 1: with somebody and it's all sound by conversation and it's not,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, the realist conversation you can have. And
Speaker 1: I love bringing on inspiring influential people and getting to
Speaker 1: see real sides to you and getting giving you an
Speaker 1: opportunity to talk about things that means something to you.
Speaker 1: So I wrap up every episode by asking, what is
Speaker 1: one thing you've never said before whatever that means to you.
Speaker 2: Oh, gosh, something I've never said before. I feel like
Speaker 2: I've been such an open book my whole life that
Speaker 2: I've always spoken very openly about everything that I think
Speaker 2: something I've never said before is as a parent, I
Speaker 2: find that being two working parents is one of the
Speaker 2: most difficult things and something that I wasn't anticipating being
Speaker 2: as difficult as it was, because your kids are the
Speaker 2: most important thing in your whole life, right, and you
Speaker 2: will do anything for them, and they are therefore like
Speaker 2: they are the most important things in your life. Every
Speaker 2: decision you make, they come first. But when you're in
Speaker 2: the trenches and currently, like we have a two year
Speaker 2: old that's party training, I've been picking up poop off
Speaker 2: the pool side, and we've been doing all kinds of things.
Speaker 2: But that I feel like not enough people talk about
Speaker 2: the guilt of being a working parent and trying to
Speaker 2: figure out the balance of being around because when I'm
Speaker 2: in LA I'm like, they're like, I am like there
Speaker 2: all day and not doing as much stuff, whereas then
Speaker 2: I have to travel to do work and the guilt
Speaker 2: that I feel being away from my kids is so
Speaker 2: it like rips my heart open and to the point
Speaker 2: where I try to condense everything as humanly possible. I mean,
Speaker 2: I've taken the Red Eye to come here. I'm here
Speaker 2: for thirty six hours maybe less, and then flying back.
Speaker 2: But I feel like I've probably never really spoken about
Speaker 2: the guilt that i feel about being away from my
Speaker 2: kids when I'm doing any of my work stuff. And
Speaker 2: I know parents have to work and you can't be
Speaker 2: around your kids all the time, but that I yeah,
Speaker 2: and being able to balance that with Lance's career and
Speaker 2: my career as something that I've really kind of struggled with.
Speaker 2: But it's something that I always feel really bad talking
Speaker 2: about because I'm also very lucky to have the opportunity
Speaker 2: to work in the places that I do and the
Speaker 2: things that I do. But it's just, yeah, I think
Speaker 2: that's probably something I've actually never said before. The guilt
Speaker 2: that I feel when I go to work.
Speaker 1: Well, that's very human. I mean I'm not a parent myself,
Speaker 1: but I have a lot of friends who experience that,
Speaker 1: and it is it is part of being a working person, right,
Speaker 1: It's not and you don't have a nine to five,
Speaker 1: So you do have these weird hours where you are
Speaker 1: away for periods of time, and I imagine that does
Speaker 1: sometimes get kind of heavy on the heart, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does get heavy on the heart. And then like,
Speaker 2: for example, you know, always one of us will be
Speaker 2: able to make it, but like being here today, Like
Speaker 2: there's Robbie's animal project at school, for example, that they're presenting,
Speaker 2: and like, I it eats me up inside that I'm
Speaker 2: not there for that today, Like I've been for all
Speaker 2: of his other shows this whole year, but it's like
Speaker 2: like I'm missing one and I feel so awful about it,
Speaker 2: and there's no way of being able to you know,
Speaker 2: like what do you do in that situation because you
Speaker 2: have to work? But then like yeah, so that eats
Speaker 2: me up.
Speaker 1: Do you ever have a day as a parent, as
Speaker 1: a dad where it's just like the guilt is so
Speaker 1: intense and you have so much going on that you
Speaker 1: just break down and you're like this this is just
Speaker 1: I'm done.
Speaker 2: I think lots of parents will do get to the
Speaker 2: point where you're like oh my gosh and completely overwhelmed
Speaker 2: and completely you know, in over your head and you're like,
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, like, how how do I deal with
Speaker 2: this situation? Because you know, there's where with a seven
Speaker 2: year old and a two year old, like the seven
Speaker 2: year old is very much doing his own thing now,
Speaker 2: but the two year old is like, especially the second child,
Speaker 2: he's feral. He likes to climb, run, jump, and do
Speaker 2: all So there's always this kind of humming background stress
Speaker 2: all the time to make sure that they're okay. And
Speaker 2: it's yeah, there are times where you're like, oh my gosh, like,
Speaker 2: how how am I ever going to be able to
Speaker 2: do all of this stuff and be able to manage it?
Speaker 2: And it does feel overwhelming and I think, you know,
Speaker 2: parents always tried to put on a brave face and
Speaker 2: be like, you know, it's we're good, it's this is
Speaker 2: this is part of it, it's all part of it.
Speaker 2: It's all good. But actually it's it's really hard. It's
Speaker 2: beautiful and it's amazing and it's magical and it's so
Speaker 2: much love there, but it's it's hard, and you think, yeah,
Speaker 2: so some days I just want to kind of I
Speaker 2: guess I want to say, like two other parents out
Speaker 2: there that you know, I see you when you're in
Speaker 2: the trenches for this like there's some difficult age ranges.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, it's we're all going through it, and it's
Speaker 2: a and I guess lots of the parents that have
Speaker 2: older kids, but like, you'll get through it and you'll
Speaker 2: wish you were back in this in this stage, so
Speaker 2: you know, we'll see ask me in two years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Well that's why I love the show and
Speaker 1: I love that question because of answers like that, and
Speaker 1: it just connects people and in a way that makes
Speaker 1: you feel like, oh my god, I'm not going through
Speaker 1: this alone and other people think like me, and I
Speaker 1: just think that's really cool and we can collectively come
Speaker 1: together and share those speriences that many of us go
Speaker 1: through and we just don't always talk about. So thank
Speaker 1: you for answering that, and thank you for hanging out.
Speaker 1: I know you've done a lot of press throughout the
Speaker 1: course of your career, and I'm sure you have a
Speaker 1: very interesting relationship with press, you know, from your time
Speaker 1: as a professional athlete and to today. So hopefully you
Speaker 1: came in here feeling good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was fun accompany. It's all gone so quickly,
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: Well, I love your story, I love your documentary. So
Speaker 1: for everybody listening. It's available exclusively on Olympics dot Com
Speaker 1: in the US and Discovery Plus in the UK, So
Speaker 1: everybody watch it right now. It is so fantastic, and
Speaker 1: thank you for hanging out, and thank you for being
Speaker 1: a pillar in the community that so many people can
Speaker 1: look up to.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you for having me. And now I have
Speaker 2: to just stay awake because I'm hoping to go to
Speaker 2: the theater this evening very nice.
Speaker 1: Well, I hope you stay away. Thank you. I've never
Speaker 1: said this before. It is hosted by Me Tommy Diderio.
Speaker 1: This podcast is executive produced by Andrew Pivle at iHeartRadio
Speaker 1: and by Me Tommy, with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've
Speaker 1: Never Said This Before is part of the Elvis Durant
Speaker 1: podcast Network on iHeart Podcasts. For more rate review and
Speaker 1: subscribe to our show and if you liked this episode,
Speaker 1: tell your friends. Until next time, I'm Tommy Diderio.