WEBVTT - How Cult Deprogramming Worked 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:11.039 Welcome to Stuff you Should Know Fromhouse Stuff Works dot com. Hey, 0:00:11.160 --> 0:00:13.800 welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with Charles W. 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:18.560 Chuck Bryant, always whacky Jerry. So this is stuff you 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:24.840 should know once again. Sixty seconds preceding the record button 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:27.960 being pressed is the gold. I wish we could sell 0:00:28.000 --> 0:00:32.400 that stuff, sell it on the street. People be hooked 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:35.480 on you know what the street value of that minute is? What? 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:41.960 How about five bucks? And it's not bad? Yeah? Uh, Chuck, Yes, 0:00:42.120 --> 0:00:48.080 have you ever been in a cult? Um? No, not technically, 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:55.280 not at all. Remember we've done episodes on Colts I'm brainwashing. Uh. 0:00:55.280 --> 0:00:58.600 This is pretty much the natural extension of that progression. Yeah. 0:00:58.600 --> 0:01:01.120 And we talked a little bit about deep programming and 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:04.760 the cults. One watching probably, but this one, it turns out, 0:01:04.800 --> 0:01:07.560 has a lot of interesting history I didn't know about. Yes, man, 0:01:07.720 --> 0:01:13.520 it is a dark spot on America's recent path yet again, 0:01:13.640 --> 0:01:17.160 yet another one, because apparently the powers that they really 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:21.560 got everybody so scared over things like the communist threat 0:01:22.400 --> 0:01:25.680 or nuclear weapons or what have you that America is 0:01:25.720 --> 0:01:29.000 basically it's like a herd of spook cattle for many decades, 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:34.520 and they they we channeled our anxieties out on anything 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:38.080 other or different. And this is a great case of that. Yeah, 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:40.520 and the courts will get to this, but they said 0:01:40.680 --> 0:01:43.840 roundly that you can kidnap and torture and rape people 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:46.600 as long as it's out of love, as long as 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:50.600 those people are weirdos. Yeah, as long as it's apparent 0:01:50.680 --> 0:01:54.680 loving their child in the harshest extreme way. Man, it's good. 0:01:54.680 --> 0:02:00.040 Imagine crazy what people went through nie so Um, the 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.240 whole thing. We should say, like America did lose its 0:02:02.240 --> 0:02:06.080 mind collectively for many years. And it happens from time 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:09.640 and time started in good old Salem before there wasn't 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:13.480 even in America. It's a long tradition here in this 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:18.960 country of everybody, yeah going crazy. Um. And like I said, 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:21.680 this is a case of it. But this case did 0:02:22.000 --> 0:02:25.840 coalesce around certain things. It wasn't just out of the blue. 0:02:25.880 --> 0:02:29.920 It wasn't out of nowhere, um for the to start 0:02:29.960 --> 0:02:35.040 off with. In the late sixties, early seventies, Um, the 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:40.880 there was a real division between generations in the United States. Huge. 0:02:41.480 --> 0:02:46.360 There was the parents who still remember the fifties, were 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:48.720 raised in the fifties, born in the fifties, maybe, but 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:52.400 definitely we're a little more buttoned, buttoned up and up 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:57.440 with ike. Then their kids were. Okay, So imagine if 0:02:57.480 --> 0:02:59.920 you have kids and they're going through this rebellious phase 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:04.040 and they're smoking pot, and they're like wearing motorcycle boots 0:03:04.040 --> 0:03:06.560 and rocking out to the Beatles and like flipping you 0:03:06.600 --> 0:03:08.560 off every time you look at them, and then all 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:13.120 of a sudden, this weird tranquility comes over them and 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:15.840 they start wearing robes and they shave their head except 0:03:15.880 --> 0:03:17.919 for there's a long ponytail in the back. Or they're 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:20.720 still wearing boots and smoking pot. Listen to the Beetles, right, 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:26.120 or or they start wearing bow ties and um like 0:03:26.840 --> 0:03:30.160 quoting scripture to you. Wouldn't you be like, well, this 0:03:30.200 --> 0:03:32.639 is a little weird. This is a little odd. Something's 0:03:32.680 --> 0:03:36.000 going on here with with my kid. My kid who's 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:40.440 twenty underwent like a serious religious conversion that has never 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:42.880 been seen before in our family. That's a little weird. 0:03:43.000 --> 0:03:46.000 That's not one I approve of. Yeah, So there's these 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:48.920 groups that at the time were called cults, but today, 0:03:49.040 --> 0:03:54.040 if you read sociology texts or studies or whatever, they're 0:03:54.080 --> 0:04:01.760 called new religious movements. Sex right with the ct yeah, UM, 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:05.480 and these groups are basically at the time they were 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.640 all termed cults. And you usually when you think cold 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.720 especially United States, it's like, um, some sort of Eastern 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:15.080 religion or something like that. But it turns out the 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:18.720 cult movement of the early seventies, late sixties and into 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:23.440 the eighties where actually um for the most part Bible based, 0:04:23.600 --> 0:04:28.839 like Christian cults, but they they took Christian beliefs and 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:32.119 teachings and went really far out there with them. UM 0:04:32.240 --> 0:04:35.960 or there was a huge influx of Eastern thought in 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:39.440 Eastern religion into the United States too, And anybody who 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:42.599 joined this group joined a cult. But today if you 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:45.200 call him a cult, it's not very nice. You call 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:48.200 him a new religious movement or a sect right or 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:50.200 in the case of the Source Family, which I've talked 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:53.000 about as being my favorite cult. Yeah, they just like 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:57.440 to have sex and do drugs a lot. The Source, right, 0:04:59.040 --> 0:05:01.960 they were a cult though, Uh well yeah, sure by 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:05.040 those definitions right at the time, Yeah, I'd call him 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:08.359 a commune now probably that had a band and a 0:05:08.440 --> 0:05:13.600 charismatic hang gliding frontman. Right. The charismatic thing is a 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:17.880 huge thing. That's usually the one thing that is the 0:05:18.560 --> 0:05:23.040 commonality and all new religious movements they are centered around, um, 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:28.880 a central figure. But as the guy who wrote this article, um, 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:30.800 which is a pretty good article, I have to say, 0:05:30.880 --> 0:05:33.200 this is not the Grabster, was it. No, there was 0:05:33.480 --> 0:05:37.680 a new a newbie. This newbie has taken the grabsters stuff. 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:40.320 Yeah it should have been the Grabster. Well, the Grabster 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:44.520 has gotten a serious focus on all things dungeons and 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.960 dragons these days. A right, I oh nine, good for him. 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:52.680 Yeah he's moved on and uh. But anyway, the author 0:05:52.680 --> 0:05:55.520 of this article points out that cole is it's a 0:05:55.640 --> 0:05:58.839 very slippery word. It has like an in group out 0:05:58.839 --> 0:06:03.400 group kind of sent a mentality attached to the point 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:08.839 is over the over the years, Um. This whole idea 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:12.760 of your kid going undergoing a religious conversion and then 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:19.279 just kind of becoming different, it was bothersome and worrisome 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:23.120 to the parents. But then Jonestown happened and all of 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:27.839 a sudden, any kind of semblance of law or religious 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:30.680 freedom or anything like that went right out the window 0:06:30.880 --> 0:06:33.520 because it was shown and even before that, thanks to 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:36.919 the Manson family, but really, UM, with Jonestown, it was 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:40.120 shown that these cults that supposedly up to that point 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:45.159 people thought were harmless or even helpful, um could be 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:50.760 very destructive. Over nine people died. Uh. So you know, 0:06:50.920 --> 0:06:54.400 I get it. I get why people would be upset 0:06:54.480 --> 0:06:58.720 about perhaps their children joining something that in any way, 0:06:58.760 --> 0:07:04.599 shape or form resembles jonestown. So what do you do? Well, 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.600 you could hire someone to kidnap and torture and beat 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.440 them and yell at them into submission a k A 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:17.600 D D programming a k A UH brainwashing or I 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:20.520 guess they would call it reverse brainwashing. Right. That was 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:23.760 kind of the key. Is this idea that, um, you 0:07:23.800 --> 0:07:27.840 were combating this conversion to a new religious movement or 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:31.800 a cult group or whatever, um based on the idea 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:38.200 that your kid couldn't possibly have undergone this conversion and 0:07:38.440 --> 0:07:41.680 join this group based on his or her own free will. 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:46.800 That's right. So thanks to that mindset UH and a 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:50.840 guy named Ted Patrick we'll talk about right now, the 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:55.640 Cult Awareness Network was formed and Ted was There were 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:58.760 there were many D programmers. We don't know about many, 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:01.080 but there were a handful of D programmers in this 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:05.200 time period, but Mr Patrick sort of led the way. Uh. 0:08:05.360 --> 0:08:08.320 He was born in the Red Light district of Chattanooga, Tennessee, 0:08:08.480 --> 0:08:12.600 and apparently had a really bad speech impediment such there 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:16.160 that he couldn't even communicate with people. So he dove 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:20.880 into religion and what he said was, quote, it wasn't 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:23.000 long before I could think of was hell, fire and 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:26.960 damnation and um so, he had a bad experience with 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:30.280 religion growing up and then had an opportunity in the 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:38.160 early seventies to uh go and save somebody's kid who 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:42.640 fell into what they called a cult. He's offered a job, yes, 0:08:42.760 --> 0:08:48.600 so there it was a scriptural based um Christian group 0:08:49.160 --> 0:08:53.240 called the Children of God now called the International Family, 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:57.360 and apparently, um they had tried to recruit Ted's son 0:08:57.559 --> 0:09:01.640 and nephew out on the beach in San Diego, and 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.000 Ted was like, what do you mean some group tried 0:09:04.040 --> 0:09:08.760 to recruit you. I guess I'll just go infiltrate this group. Yeah. 0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:12.840 Well he was also approached by parents who's children were 0:09:12.880 --> 0:09:15.920 in this what they called the cult, So yeah, he 0:09:16.040 --> 0:09:19.000 infiltrate it and said you know what, Uh, they were 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:21.280 brainwashed and I'm the guy that can fix it for 0:09:21.400 --> 0:09:24.360 a fee. Yeah, which is weird because um so, Ted 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:28.640 Patrick and the somebody uh named Mia Donovan came out 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.640 with a documentary recently called Deprogrammed. I'd like to see that. 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:35.400 Uh yeah, apparently it's very tough to find and get 0:09:35.440 --> 0:09:38.680 your hands on, but it's out there somewhere. Um, and 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:42.599 it's all about Ted Patrick, Ted Black Lightning Patrick is 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:47.840 his name, and he um. He was an unlikely candidate 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:52.280 to become the face and the leader of what was 0:09:52.320 --> 0:09:55.160 an anti cult movement that had arisen in the United 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:57.920 States thanks to Jonestown and thanks to the fact that 0:09:58.200 --> 0:10:01.520 kids were joining cults left and yeah, um, he was 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:03.440 a high school dropout, like he said, he was a 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:09.080 he had had his own um experiences with scripture and 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:12.960 Bible beating and all of that kind of stuff, and he, 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:16.560 I guess was his heart was in the right place 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:20.360 from what I understand, But he did some really really 0:10:20.480 --> 0:10:23.680 questionable stuff over the years after he formed the Colt 0:10:23.679 --> 0:10:26.480 Action or Awareness Network. Do you think his heart was 0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:29.280 in the right place. That's that's how MEA Donovan puts it. 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:32.640 I think he's trying to make money. So that was 0:10:32.679 --> 0:10:37.920 another thing too. Supposedly he was working not for profit, 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:42.120 that his expenses were paid and he wasn't really pocketing 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:44.960 the money. Himself. But he went the other way pretty 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:48.360 quickly because at one point he was charging up to 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:52.240 grand which would be the equivalent of about a hundred 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:57.319 and twenty dollars for each case today to uh to deprogram, 0:10:57.360 --> 0:10:59.840 to kidnap and deprogram your child. Yeah, a lot of 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:04.240 mone uh so he uh. He basically at the very 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:08.000 beginning said you know what, uh, how do we get 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.200 away with this? And he said, I think if we 0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:15.160 are working with the parents, then we won't be prosecuted 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:19.160 for kidnapping because it's their own kid. So I won't 0:11:19.320 --> 0:11:26.200 buy proxy beat affiliated as an accomplice because it's their children. Yeah, 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.559 you can't kidnap your own child. In ninete No, you can't. 0:11:29.920 --> 0:11:33.160 UM and so that worked. At the time, twenty one 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:38.679 was the federal age for miners, right or for an adult. 0:11:39.080 --> 0:11:42.680 Anything below twenty one you're a minor unless the state 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:45.840 had gone in and rewritten law and said now it's 0:11:45.840 --> 0:11:49.560 actually eighteen or nineteen or whatever. So that that covered 0:11:49.559 --> 0:11:55.120 like a pretty decent amount of the um emerging cult population. Yeah, 0:11:55.160 --> 0:11:57.240 And he also figured that I won't get in trouble 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:00.640 because once we have freed these people and program, then 0:12:00.640 --> 0:12:04.480 they won't breast charges like they'll be delighted exactly there. 0:12:04.559 --> 0:12:07.800 They're brainwashed. All we have to do is on brainwashed them. 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:10.760 The other way that he figured out UM they could 0:12:10.760 --> 0:12:15.440 be protected by law was if if the member, the 0:12:15.520 --> 0:12:19.000 cult member, was an adult, they could apply for what's 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:24.760 called the conservatorship. And this is basically um based on 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.640 that old kind of law where uh husband could have 0:12:28.840 --> 0:12:31.800 his hysterical wife committed if he didn't like her attitude, 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:34.560 that kind of thing where there's a very very loose 0:12:34.760 --> 0:12:39.320 burden of proof on demonstrating that the person was out 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:42.160 of their mind, so much so that in this point 0:12:42.200 --> 0:12:45.800 in time in America, if you were UM high, if 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:48.920 you hired a cult deep programmer, all you had to 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:52.680 do was also shell out five bucks or something for 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:55.320 a psychologist who would come in and say, the very 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:57.439 fact that they are a member of this cult demonstrates 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:01.240 that they are mentally ill, and therefore power over them 0:13:01.240 --> 0:13:04.079 should be granted to their parents, even those persons an adult. 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.160 And once that power was granted to the parent, the 0:13:07.280 --> 0:13:10.280 parent could extend that power to the cult de programmers, 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:13.280 who would then go and kidnap the cult member and 0:13:13.320 --> 0:13:16.000 then begin the process of deep programming. Yeah, and they 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:18.520 wouldn't even make any attempts to assess their mental state. 0:13:18.600 --> 0:13:21.160 It was just sort of I don't know about grandfather Den, 0:13:21.280 --> 0:13:23.160 but it was just sort of lumped in under the 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:31.040 umbrella of the conservatorship. Thank you again, psychology. Way to go. So, uh, well, 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:33.080 should we talk about some of his greatest hips. Well, 0:13:33.120 --> 0:14:07.120 let's take a let's take a break first. M alright, So, Patrick, 0:14:07.280 --> 0:14:09.280 the first thing he did when he first started doing 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:11.680 this was because he didn't really have a shop set 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:15.760 up or a staff at this point, he's he hired 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:21.240 um thugs, street thugs too do the kidnapping, right. He 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.840 would just pay dudes that, look, we're tough ruffians as 0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:27.040 they were called, you know, how to abduct these kids, 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.200 you know, like with um whenever you hear like of 0:14:29.280 --> 0:14:34.920 a um a private investigator making air quotes like is 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:37.880 also involved in like a jewel heist or something like that, 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.920 where there's that real like gray area that's occupied by 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:44.840 some people who are maybe working on the side of 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:47.480 the law, but really they're doing really unlawful things to 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.360 achieve those ends. These are the kind of people that 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:54.360 were hired by the Cult Awareness Network, That's right. Uh, 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:58.840 And he eventually was joined by someone named Sandra Sachs, 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:03.400 who was a housewife whose son was deprogrammed, and from 0:15:03.440 --> 0:15:07.000 I believe the Harry Christnas and then he got to 0:15:07.120 --> 0:15:09.600 think of a guy named Goose. I'm not sure of 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:13.040 Goose's real name, but he was his became ultimately his 0:15:13.160 --> 0:15:15.920 like a big henchman. So they were sort of the 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:18.440 three heading up the network early on at least. So 0:15:18.520 --> 0:15:21.720 one of the things he did, um, it wasn't always 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:27.320 uh religious cults, even he was hired basically anytime a 0:15:27.400 --> 0:15:30.000 parent didn't like what their kid was doing, they could 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.360 hire him to kidnap them and scream at them in 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:38.040 the handcuffed them to a bed for a week until 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:40.080 they said they didn't want to do what they were doing, 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:43.200 whether it was being a lesbian or just being a 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:46.760 converted Catholic. Yeah, there was one case that he got 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.840 in trouble for for false imprisonment I believe, out in 0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:54.440 denver Um, where a woman had left the Greek Orthodox 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:57.480 Church to go live her own life and her parents 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:02.800 didn't like that, so they hired Ted and his company 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:07.280 too deep programmer I guess or reprogrammer back into the 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:11.120 Greek Orthodox Church. There was two girls, two daughters, and uh, 0:16:11.160 --> 0:16:14.080 their quote at the end of this ordeal was there 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:17.360 was nothing to de program, right, we just left the 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.200 church for another one. Yeah. Yeah. There's another woman, an 0:16:20.240 --> 0:16:23.960 English professor out in California and San Francisco named Sarah Worth, 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.840 and she had become an anti nuke activist, civil rights 0:16:28.920 --> 0:16:32.800 activist as well. Her her mother back in Pennsylvania thought 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:36.240 that that just was very unbecoming, so she hired the 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:42.080 Cult Awareness Network to de programmer daughter. That's right, this 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.480 is going on and it was legal, well not I 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:46.680 don't know about legal, but it was protected. Here's the thing, 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.960 so let's talk about why this was legal or quasi 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:53.880 legal at the time. Again, America has really really scared 0:16:54.320 --> 0:16:57.720 that there's this cult movement going on, that the youth 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:00.160 of America is losing its free will. This is what 0:17:00.280 --> 0:17:02.840 the whole thing is based on. That there are groups, 0:17:02.880 --> 0:17:07.560 insidious groups out there who are recruiting and brainwashing our kids. 0:17:08.040 --> 0:17:10.359 What's to become of America If all of our kids 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.040 are running around is harrid Christnas or Bible thumpers or 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:15.960 what have you. They're the future. So we have to 0:17:16.040 --> 0:17:18.240 fight this. And if they're being brainwashed you need to 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:21.560 de brainwash them. So not only was it groups like 0:17:21.840 --> 0:17:25.040 the Cult Awareness Network who were thinking these things, they 0:17:25.080 --> 0:17:28.040 were also like drumming up a lot of publicity as well. Yeah, 0:17:28.040 --> 0:17:31.119 they thought it was a big conspiracy. Yeah, a communist 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.480 conspiracy is what a lot of people said too, that 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:36.400 this is the Ultimately the Communists were behind it. So 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:40.040 not only is it this obscure fringe group that knows 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.480 how to work the media who believes this, it's also 0:17:42.800 --> 0:17:47.520 the people reading the newspaper, like parents, cops, judges, juries, 0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:51.680 and if you take someone to court for kidnapping you 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:54.960 and beating you up until you agree to stop being 0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:59.360 a harrid Krishna and the judge is convinced that you 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.399 or have been brainwashed by the hard Christmas, the judge 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.200 is not going to rule in your favor. And therefore, 0:18:06.880 --> 0:18:10.359 this whole technique, this whole method that was used for 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:14.120 more than a decade was quasi legal. For as many 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:16.760 times as he was dragged into court, Ted Patrick was 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.040 only imprisoned twice, one time for like ten days and 0:18:20.080 --> 0:18:23.600 another time for sixty. Yeah. There was one famous case, 0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:30.600 uh Stephanie Ryth Miller in Ohio. Um, she her parents 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:34.560 hired her or hired Patrick and his crew because, uh, 0:18:34.560 --> 0:18:37.199 well because she was a lesbian. Well, they suspected she 0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:40.560 was a lesbian, yes, was she in fact? Yes? So 0:18:40.600 --> 0:18:42.760 they paid eight thousand dollars, which would be twenty one 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:46.480 grand today to kidnap her. She was nineteen years old. 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.440 She's walking on the street with her friend on the sidewalk. 0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:51.760 They pull up in a van. They mace her friend, 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:54.000 and they throw her in the back of the van 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:57.560 and uh, you know, subdue her. She was driven to 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:01.199 Alabama from Ohio. Uh and over the course in the 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:05.359 next seven days, was raped once a day, um by 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:07.320 a guy named James Rowe, who was one of the 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:10.680 henchmen that worked with Patrick, right, in order to get 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:15.520 her back into the heterosexual mindset, right, yeah, uh. Which 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:18.280 We're gonna do a whole podcast on gay d programming 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:21.400 at some point, um, because that's a whole different thing, 0:19:21.720 --> 0:19:24.160 but that has its roots and something like this. Obviously, 0:19:25.520 --> 0:19:29.520 at the trial, they because this did go to trial, Um, 0:19:29.600 --> 0:19:34.879 the defense attacked her roommate who was gay and said, 0:19:35.119 --> 0:19:37.800 you know, look at her boots and her pickup truck 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:42.639 and she has a Doberman pincher Like this is very unbecoming. Uh, 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:45.639 she has a very over overbearing style. Where they were 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:48.919 trying to prove was that the roommate had brainwashed her 0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.159 into becoming a lesbian and just look at her with 0:19:52.160 --> 0:19:56.600 her boots and her pickup truck. So eventually goes to 0:19:56.680 --> 0:20:02.320 trial and the judge, um Hamilton County Judge Simon Lese 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.600 l e I s he was not very sympathetic at 0:20:05.600 --> 0:20:09.560 all of her lifestyle. Of course. Uh. He said homosexuality 0:20:09.640 --> 0:20:13.199 was immoral and uh. Even he told the jury that 0:20:13.280 --> 0:20:15.679 the lifestyle was an issue, but I'm not going to 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:18.320 represent to you that I approve of the sexual preference. 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:23.479 And she called it unnatural. So eventually he said what 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:25.400 the parents did was wrong, but I don't think there's 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:28.320 any question that they did was totally done out of 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.600 love for their daughter. Uh. And he described the tactics, 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:35.040 even the rape, as to detract, like you said, from 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:39.560 her lesbianism and attractor to heterosexual activity. So he got 0:20:39.600 --> 0:20:42.160 off with that one. Huh uh yeah, And I don't 0:20:42.200 --> 0:20:44.800 think he was actually in the room like it was. 0:20:44.880 --> 0:20:46.320 There was a lot of back and forth on like 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:48.680 what he knew and what he didn't know about this case. 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:50.600 But the guy who raped her got away with it. 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.359 And this is I mean that was again he was 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:56.480 dragged to court over and over again, and it wasn't 0:20:56.960 --> 0:20:59.720 a lot of the cult groups did not fight back, 0:21:00.440 --> 0:21:02.520 and in some cases because they didn't want to open 0:21:02.560 --> 0:21:05.359 their books from what I understand, which they may have 0:21:05.440 --> 0:21:08.320 had to had they fought anything like this in court, 0:21:08.840 --> 0:21:13.480 but also because America as a whole was against them, 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:16.600 Like can you remember Airplane, the original one? I just 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:18.439 watched it the other day where he just beats up 0:21:18.480 --> 0:21:20.440 a bunch of mooneyes in the airport who are trying 0:21:20.480 --> 0:21:23.040 to like offer him a free flower. One of them 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:26.840 is Joe Iszuzu. For God's sake, he's America's sweetheart. Well 0:21:26.880 --> 0:21:29.320 he should have been beating up for that. So um, 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:32.919 there was this this It was a joke, obviously, but 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:36.360 it it definitely pointed out this whole sentiment that America 0:21:36.440 --> 0:21:38.600 had toward cults at the time, which was like they 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:41.680 it was open season, man, they were fair game inside 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:44.720 and outside of court. There's an indictment in New York 0:21:45.160 --> 0:21:49.359 where they indicted some Harri Christna leaders for using mind control. 0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:53.199 In an indictment in a court of law, the words 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:57.240 mind control were used to indict somebody for a crime 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:00.800 which which has never been even proven, Like, how do 0:22:00.840 --> 0:22:04.679 you mind control somebody? It's crazy? But this was like 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:07.040 the kind of the sentiment that was going on at 0:22:07.080 --> 0:22:11.440 the time, right, And so you could be if you 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:15.040 were a member of what was considered a cult group 0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:17.879 and your parents were well healed enough to afford the 0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:21.320 cult awareness network. You could be sitting there hanging out 0:22:21.359 --> 0:22:24.800 in the commune one day, playing your acoustic guitar. What 0:22:24.880 --> 0:22:29.400 have you thinking about consciousness and the universality of it? 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:31.360 And all of a sudden, the door gets kicked in 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:36.480 and Ted Patrick and some of his henchmen enter grab you. 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:39.040 Your buddy stands up to be like, hey man, you 0:22:39.080 --> 0:22:42.199 can't do that, and they mace him and they take you, 0:22:42.320 --> 0:22:44.800 throw you in a van, drive you several states over, 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:48.240 maybe to your parents house. I think they frequently used 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:50.960 the parents house because it added like an extra sense 0:22:51.000 --> 0:22:54.879 of legality to it. And then they would keep you 0:22:54.920 --> 0:22:57.520 there for as long as they wanted to. They would 0:22:57.600 --> 0:23:02.320 beat you, they would um abu use you physically, emotionally, 0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:06.199 verbally um. They would starve you, they would deprive you 0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:09.480 of sleep um and you weren't allowed to leave. You 0:23:09.520 --> 0:23:12.199 were berated constantly. They would take shifts, they would have 0:23:12.240 --> 0:23:14.840 your family come in and berate you. And all of 0:23:14.880 --> 0:23:19.400 this was completely made up out of whole cloth by 0:23:19.400 --> 0:23:22.920 Ted Patrick. Like he he had no training whatsoever in 0:23:23.000 --> 0:23:26.400 any kind of brainwash techniques. There is no training, right 0:23:26.480 --> 0:23:29.040 he but he just kind of intuitively got that, like 0:23:29.080 --> 0:23:31.600 if you deprive someone of sleep or food, they'll start 0:23:31.640 --> 0:23:35.159 to do what you want them to and um, the 0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:37.600 whole goal of it, as far as he was concerned, 0:23:37.840 --> 0:23:41.400 was to create um to snap somebody out of it. 0:23:42.160 --> 0:23:46.680 And when somebody snapped, they basically gave into your will 0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:49.119 and that they were no longer resisting. They were no 0:23:49.160 --> 0:23:52.760 longer saying, uh, my right to be a harry Christmas 0:23:52.760 --> 0:23:56.280 protected by the First Amendment. You have kidnapped me. I 0:23:56.359 --> 0:23:59.960 want to go, please leave, Please leave me alone. They 0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:02.480 just said, fine, you're right, I don't want to be 0:24:02.520 --> 0:24:05.440 a hard Christian anymore. That could be snapping. It could 0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:08.679 also be something that was a lot closer um and 0:24:08.760 --> 0:24:12.000 complexion to something like that religious conversion. But it would 0:24:12.040 --> 0:24:15.359 be like a conversion back where they'd start crying and weeping. 0:24:15.800 --> 0:24:18.359 And these are the ones that were frequently pointed to 0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:23.399 as proof positive that deep programming actually worked because there 0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:25.240 are a lot of people who are deprogramming. You said, 0:24:25.440 --> 0:24:28.840 this is a great thing for me, um, But it 0:24:28.920 --> 0:24:33.679 has been explained time and time again as basically, a 0:24:33.680 --> 0:24:36.239 lot of kids who joined cults did so because they 0:24:36.280 --> 0:24:38.320 felt like they weren't accepted at home or by their 0:24:38.320 --> 0:24:41.040 families or whatever. And they would see once they were 0:24:41.119 --> 0:24:44.560 kidnapped and and taking back to their parents house that 0:24:45.240 --> 0:24:47.480 maybe their parents actually did care about them more than 0:24:47.520 --> 0:24:49.560 they realized. They were willing to spend some money and 0:24:49.880 --> 0:24:53.199