1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know Fromhouse Stuff Works dot com. Hey, 2 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,800 Speaker 1: welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark with Charles W. 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: Chuck Bryant, always whacky Jerry. So this is stuff you 4 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 1: should know once again. Sixty seconds preceding the record button 5 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,960 Speaker 1: being pressed is the gold. I wish we could sell 6 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: that stuff, sell it on the street. People be hooked 7 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 1: on you know what the street value of that minute is? What? 8 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: How about five bucks? And it's not bad? Yeah? Uh, Chuck, Yes, 9 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: have you ever been in a cult? Um? No, not technically, 10 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: not at all. Remember we've done episodes on Colts I'm brainwashing. Uh. 11 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 1: This is pretty much the natural extension of that progression. Yeah. 12 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 1: And we talked a little bit about deep programming and 13 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:04,760 Speaker 1: the cults. One watching probably, but this one, it turns out, 14 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:07,560 Speaker 1: has a lot of interesting history I didn't know about. Yes, man, 15 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: it is a dark spot on America's recent path yet again, 16 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: yet another one, because apparently the powers that they really 17 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: got everybody so scared over things like the communist threat 18 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 1: or nuclear weapons or what have you that America is 19 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: basically it's like a herd of spook cattle for many decades, 20 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: and they they we channeled our anxieties out on anything 21 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: other or different. And this is a great case of that. Yeah, 22 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 1: and the courts will get to this, but they said 23 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,840 Speaker 1: roundly that you can kidnap and torture and rape people 24 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: as long as it's out of love, as long as 25 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:50,600 Speaker 1: those people are weirdos. Yeah, as long as it's apparent 26 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 1: loving their child in the harshest extreme way. Man, it's good. 27 00:01:54,680 --> 00:02:00,040 Speaker 1: Imagine crazy what people went through nie so Um, the 28 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: whole thing. We should say, like America did lose its 29 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:06,080 Speaker 1: mind collectively for many years. And it happens from time 30 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 1: and time started in good old Salem before there wasn't 31 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 1: even in America. It's a long tradition here in this 32 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: country of everybody, yeah going crazy. Um. And like I said, 33 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: this is a case of it. But this case did 34 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: coalesce around certain things. It wasn't just out of the blue. 35 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: It wasn't out of nowhere, um for the to start 36 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 1: off with. In the late sixties, early seventies, Um, the 37 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:40,880 Speaker 1: there was a real division between generations in the United States. Huge. 38 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 1: There was the parents who still remember the fifties, were 39 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 1: raised in the fifties, born in the fifties, maybe, but 40 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 1: definitely we're a little more buttoned, buttoned up and up 41 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 1: with ike. Then their kids were. Okay, So imagine if 42 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: you have kids and they're going through this rebellious phase 43 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: and they're smoking pot, and they're like wearing motorcycle boots 44 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: and rocking out to the Beatles and like flipping you 45 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: off every time you look at them, and then all 46 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:13,120 Speaker 1: of a sudden, this weird tranquility comes over them and 47 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,840 Speaker 1: they start wearing robes and they shave their head except 48 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:17,919 Speaker 1: for there's a long ponytail in the back. Or they're 49 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: still wearing boots and smoking pot. Listen to the Beetles, right, 50 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 1: or or they start wearing bow ties and um like 51 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:30,160 Speaker 1: quoting scripture to you. Wouldn't you be like, well, this 52 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,639 Speaker 1: is a little weird. This is a little odd. Something's 53 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 1: going on here with with my kid. My kid who's 54 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 1: twenty underwent like a serious religious conversion that has never 55 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: been seen before in our family. That's a little weird. 56 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: That's not one I approve of. Yeah, So there's these 57 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 1: groups that at the time were called cults, but today, 58 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:54,040 Speaker 1: if you read sociology texts or studies or whatever, they're 59 00:03:54,080 --> 00:04:01,760 Speaker 1: called new religious movements. Sex right with the ct yeah, UM, 60 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 1: and these groups are basically at the time they were 61 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: all termed cults. And you usually when you think cold 62 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: especially United States, it's like, um, some sort of Eastern 63 00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: religion or something like that. But it turns out the 64 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,720 Speaker 1: cult movement of the early seventies, late sixties and into 65 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 1: the eighties where actually um for the most part Bible based, 66 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:28,839 Speaker 1: like Christian cults, but they they took Christian beliefs and 67 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:32,119 Speaker 1: teachings and went really far out there with them. UM 68 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: or there was a huge influx of Eastern thought in 69 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: Eastern religion into the United States too, And anybody who 70 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,599 Speaker 1: joined this group joined a cult. But today if you 71 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: call him a cult, it's not very nice. You call 72 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 1: him a new religious movement or a sect right or 73 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: in the case of the Source Family, which I've talked 74 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: about as being my favorite cult. Yeah, they just like 75 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: to have sex and do drugs a lot. The Source, right, 76 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 1: they were a cult though, Uh well yeah, sure by 77 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,040 Speaker 1: those definitions right at the time, Yeah, I'd call him 78 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,359 Speaker 1: a commune now probably that had a band and a 79 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 1: charismatic hang gliding frontman. Right. The charismatic thing is a 80 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: huge thing. That's usually the one thing that is the 81 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: commonality and all new religious movements they are centered around, um, 82 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: a central figure. But as the guy who wrote this article, um, 83 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: which is a pretty good article, I have to say, 84 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:33,200 Speaker 1: this is not the Grabster, was it. No, there was 85 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,680 Speaker 1: a new a newbie. This newbie has taken the grabsters stuff. 86 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: Yeah it should have been the Grabster. Well, the Grabster 87 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: has gotten a serious focus on all things dungeons and 88 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 1: dragons these days. A right, I oh nine, good for him. 89 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 1: Yeah he's moved on and uh. But anyway, the author 90 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: of this article points out that cole is it's a 91 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: very slippery word. It has like an in group out 92 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: group kind of sent a mentality attached to the point 93 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 1: is over the over the years, Um. This whole idea 94 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 1: of your kid going undergoing a religious conversion and then 95 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:19,279 Speaker 1: just kind of becoming different, it was bothersome and worrisome 96 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:23,120 Speaker 1: to the parents. But then Jonestown happened and all of 97 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 1: a sudden, any kind of semblance of law or religious 98 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: freedom or anything like that went right out the window 99 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: because it was shown and even before that, thanks to 100 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:36,919 Speaker 1: the Manson family, but really, UM, with Jonestown, it was 101 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: shown that these cults that supposedly up to that point 102 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:45,159 Speaker 1: people thought were harmless or even helpful, um could be 103 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: very destructive. Over nine people died. Uh. So you know, 104 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: I get it. I get why people would be upset 105 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: about perhaps their children joining something that in any way, 106 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: shape or form resembles jonestown. So what do you do? Well, 107 00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:07,600 Speaker 1: you could hire someone to kidnap and torture and beat 108 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,440 Speaker 1: them and yell at them into submission a k A 109 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 1: D D programming a k A UH brainwashing or I 110 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: guess they would call it reverse brainwashing. Right. That was 111 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: kind of the key. Is this idea that, um, you 112 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: were combating this conversion to a new religious movement or 113 00:07:27,880 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: a cult group or whatever, um based on the idea 114 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: that your kid couldn't possibly have undergone this conversion and 115 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 1: join this group based on his or her own free will. 116 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: That's right. So thanks to that mindset UH and a 117 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 1: guy named Ted Patrick we'll talk about right now, the 118 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: Cult Awareness Network was formed and Ted was There were 119 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: there were many D programmers. We don't know about many, 120 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: but there were a handful of D programmers in this 121 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: time period, but Mr Patrick sort of led the way. Uh. 122 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: He was born in the Red Light district of Chattanooga, Tennessee, 123 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 1: and apparently had a really bad speech impediment such there 124 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: that he couldn't even communicate with people. So he dove 125 00:08:16,240 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 1: into religion and what he said was, quote, it wasn't 126 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: long before I could think of was hell, fire and 127 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:26,960 Speaker 1: damnation and um so, he had a bad experience with 128 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 1: religion growing up and then had an opportunity in the 129 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: early seventies to uh go and save somebody's kid who 130 00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 1: fell into what they called a cult. He's offered a job, yes, 131 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 1: so there it was a scriptural based um Christian group 132 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: called the Children of God now called the International Family, 133 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 1: and apparently, um they had tried to recruit Ted's son 134 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: and nephew out on the beach in San Diego, and 135 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 1: Ted was like, what do you mean some group tried 136 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: to recruit you. I guess I'll just go infiltrate this group. Yeah. 137 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 1: Well he was also approached by parents who's children were 138 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,920 Speaker 1: in this what they called the cult, So yeah, he 139 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: infiltrate it and said you know what, Uh, they were 140 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: brainwashed and I'm the guy that can fix it for 141 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 1: a fee. Yeah, which is weird because um so, Ted 142 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:28,640 Speaker 1: Patrick and the somebody uh named Mia Donovan came out 143 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: with a documentary recently called Deprogrammed. I'd like to see that. 144 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, apparently it's very tough to find and get 145 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: your hands on, but it's out there somewhere. Um, and 146 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:42,599 Speaker 1: it's all about Ted Patrick, Ted Black Lightning Patrick is 147 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 1: his name, and he um. He was an unlikely candidate 148 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: to become the face and the leader of what was 149 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:55,160 Speaker 1: an anti cult movement that had arisen in the United 150 00:09:55,200 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 1: States thanks to Jonestown and thanks to the fact that 151 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: kids were joining cults left and yeah, um, he was 152 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: a high school dropout, like he said, he was a 153 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: he had had his own um experiences with scripture and 154 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,960 Speaker 1: Bible beating and all of that kind of stuff, and he, 155 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,560 Speaker 1: I guess was his heart was in the right place 156 00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:20,360 Speaker 1: from what I understand, But he did some really really 157 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,680 Speaker 1: questionable stuff over the years after he formed the Colt 158 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:26,480 Speaker 1: Action or Awareness Network. Do you think his heart was 159 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: in the right place. That's that's how MEA Donovan puts it. 160 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: I think he's trying to make money. So that was 161 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:37,920 Speaker 1: another thing too. Supposedly he was working not for profit, 162 00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: that his expenses were paid and he wasn't really pocketing 163 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: the money. Himself. But he went the other way pretty 164 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: quickly because at one point he was charging up to 165 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: grand which would be the equivalent of about a hundred 166 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:57,319 Speaker 1: and twenty dollars for each case today to uh to deprogram, 167 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: to kidnap and deprogram your child. Yeah, a lot of 168 00:10:59,840 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: mone uh so he uh. He basically at the very 169 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: beginning said you know what, uh, how do we get 170 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 1: away with this? And he said, I think if we 171 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: are working with the parents, then we won't be prosecuted 172 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 1: for kidnapping because it's their own kid. So I won't 173 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:26,200 Speaker 1: buy proxy beat affiliated as an accomplice because it's their children. Yeah, 174 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:29,559 Speaker 1: you can't kidnap your own child. In ninete No, you can't. 175 00:11:29,920 --> 00:11:33,160 Speaker 1: UM and so that worked. At the time, twenty one 176 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: was the federal age for miners, right or for an adult. 177 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 1: Anything below twenty one you're a minor unless the state 178 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: had gone in and rewritten law and said now it's 179 00:11:45,840 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: actually eighteen or nineteen or whatever. So that that covered 180 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 1: like a pretty decent amount of the um emerging cult population. Yeah, 181 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 1: And he also figured that I won't get in trouble 182 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 1: because once we have freed these people and program, then 183 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: they won't breast charges like they'll be delighted exactly there. 184 00:12:04,559 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: They're brainwashed. All we have to do is on brainwashed them. 185 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: The other way that he figured out UM they could 186 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:15,440 Speaker 1: be protected by law was if if the member, the 187 00:12:15,520 --> 00:12:19,000 Speaker 1: cult member, was an adult, they could apply for what's 188 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: called the conservatorship. And this is basically um based on 189 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: that old kind of law where uh husband could have 190 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: his hysterical wife committed if he didn't like her attitude, 191 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 1: that kind of thing where there's a very very loose 192 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:39,320 Speaker 1: burden of proof on demonstrating that the person was out 193 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: of their mind, so much so that in this point 194 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: in time in America, if you were UM high, if 195 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,920 Speaker 1: you hired a cult deep programmer, all you had to 196 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,680 Speaker 1: do was also shell out five bucks or something for 197 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 1: a psychologist who would come in and say, the very 198 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:57,439 Speaker 1: fact that they are a member of this cult demonstrates 199 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:01,240 Speaker 1: that they are mentally ill, and therefore power over them 200 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 1: should be granted to their parents, even those persons an adult. 201 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: And once that power was granted to the parent, the 202 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: parent could extend that power to the cult de programmers, 203 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: who would then go and kidnap the cult member and 204 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: then begin the process of deep programming. Yeah, and they 205 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: wouldn't even make any attempts to assess their mental state. 206 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: It was just sort of I don't know about grandfather Den, 207 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: but it was just sort of lumped in under the 208 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: umbrella of the conservatorship. Thank you again, psychology. Way to go. So, uh, well, 209 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: should we talk about some of his greatest hips. Well, 210 00:13:33,120 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: let's take a let's take a break first. M alright, So, Patrick, 211 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 1: the first thing he did when he first started doing 212 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,680 Speaker 1: this was because he didn't really have a shop set 213 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:15,760 Speaker 1: up or a staff at this point, he's he hired 214 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:21,240 Speaker 1: um thugs, street thugs too do the kidnapping, right. He 215 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: would just pay dudes that, look, we're tough ruffians as 216 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,040 Speaker 1: they were called, you know, how to abduct these kids, 217 00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: you know, like with um whenever you hear like of 218 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: a um a private investigator making air quotes like is 219 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: also involved in like a jewel heist or something like that, 220 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: where there's that real like gray area that's occupied by 221 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:44,840 Speaker 1: some people who are maybe working on the side of 222 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: the law, but really they're doing really unlawful things to 223 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:50,360 Speaker 1: achieve those ends. These are the kind of people that 224 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: were hired by the Cult Awareness Network, That's right. Uh, 225 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: And he eventually was joined by someone named Sandra Sachs, 226 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: who was a housewife whose son was deprogrammed, and from 227 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:07,000 Speaker 1: I believe the Harry Christnas and then he got to 228 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 1: think of a guy named Goose. I'm not sure of 229 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 1: Goose's real name, but he was his became ultimately his 230 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 1: like a big henchman. So they were sort of the 231 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:18,440 Speaker 1: three heading up the network early on at least. So 232 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,720 Speaker 1: one of the things he did, um, it wasn't always 233 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:27,320 Speaker 1: uh religious cults, even he was hired basically anytime a 234 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: parent didn't like what their kid was doing, they could 235 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 1: hire him to kidnap them and scream at them in 236 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:38,040 Speaker 1: the handcuffed them to a bed for a week until 237 00:15:38,080 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: they said they didn't want to do what they were doing, 238 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 1: whether it was being a lesbian or just being a 239 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 1: converted Catholic. Yeah, there was one case that he got 240 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: in trouble for for false imprisonment I believe, out in 241 00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,440 Speaker 1: denver Um, where a woman had left the Greek Orthodox 242 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: Church to go live her own life and her parents 243 00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: didn't like that, so they hired Ted and his company 244 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: too deep programmer I guess or reprogrammer back into the 245 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: Greek Orthodox Church. There was two girls, two daughters, and uh, 246 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: their quote at the end of this ordeal was there 247 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: was nothing to de program, right, we just left the 248 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: church for another one. Yeah. Yeah. There's another woman, an 249 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 1: English professor out in California and San Francisco named Sarah Worth, 250 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: and she had become an anti nuke activist, civil rights 251 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,800 Speaker 1: activist as well. Her her mother back in Pennsylvania thought 252 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: that that just was very unbecoming, so she hired the 253 00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: Cult Awareness Network to de programmer daughter. That's right, this 254 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,480 Speaker 1: is going on and it was legal, well not I 255 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: don't know about legal, but it was protected. Here's the thing, 256 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: so let's talk about why this was legal or quasi 257 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: legal at the time. Again, America has really really scared 258 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: that there's this cult movement going on, that the youth 259 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,160 Speaker 1: of America is losing its free will. This is what 260 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,840 Speaker 1: the whole thing is based on. That there are groups, 261 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:07,560 Speaker 1: insidious groups out there who are recruiting and brainwashing our kids. 262 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 1: What's to become of America If all of our kids 263 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: are running around is harrid Christnas or Bible thumpers or 264 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: what have you. They're the future. So we have to 265 00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:18,240 Speaker 1: fight this. And if they're being brainwashed you need to 266 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: de brainwash them. So not only was it groups like 267 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: the Cult Awareness Network who were thinking these things, they 268 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: were also like drumming up a lot of publicity as well. Yeah, 269 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:31,119 Speaker 1: they thought it was a big conspiracy. Yeah, a communist 270 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: conspiracy is what a lot of people said too, that 271 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,400 Speaker 1: this is the Ultimately the Communists were behind it. So 272 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 1: not only is it this obscure fringe group that knows 273 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 1: how to work the media who believes this, it's also 274 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: the people reading the newspaper, like parents, cops, judges, juries, 275 00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:51,680 Speaker 1: and if you take someone to court for kidnapping you 276 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,960 Speaker 1: and beating you up until you agree to stop being 277 00:17:54,960 --> 00:17:59,360 Speaker 1: a harrid Krishna and the judge is convinced that you 278 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: or have been brainwashed by the hard Christmas, the judge 279 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: is not going to rule in your favor. And therefore, 280 00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:10,359 Speaker 1: this whole technique, this whole method that was used for 281 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,120 Speaker 1: more than a decade was quasi legal. For as many 282 00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: times as he was dragged into court, Ted Patrick was 283 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 1: only imprisoned twice, one time for like ten days and 284 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: another time for sixty. Yeah. There was one famous case, 285 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 1: uh Stephanie Ryth Miller in Ohio. Um, she her parents 286 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 1: hired her or hired Patrick and his crew because, uh, 287 00:18:34,560 --> 00:18:37,199 Speaker 1: well because she was a lesbian. Well, they suspected she 288 00:18:37,280 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: was a lesbian, yes, was she in fact? Yes? So 289 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:42,760 Speaker 1: they paid eight thousand dollars, which would be twenty one 290 00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:46,480 Speaker 1: grand today to kidnap her. She was nineteen years old. 291 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,440 Speaker 1: She's walking on the street with her friend on the sidewalk. 292 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: They pull up in a van. They mace her friend, 293 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: and they throw her in the back of the van 294 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, subdue her. She was driven to 295 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 1: Alabama from Ohio. Uh and over the course in the 296 00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:05,359 Speaker 1: next seven days, was raped once a day, um by 297 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: a guy named James Rowe, who was one of the 298 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: henchmen that worked with Patrick, right, in order to get 299 00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:15,520 Speaker 1: her back into the heterosexual mindset, right, yeah, uh. Which 300 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 1: We're gonna do a whole podcast on gay d programming 301 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,400 Speaker 1: at some point, um, because that's a whole different thing, 302 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,160 Speaker 1: but that has its roots and something like this. Obviously, 303 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:29,520 Speaker 1: at the trial, they because this did go to trial, Um, 304 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:34,879 Speaker 1: the defense attacked her roommate who was gay and said, 305 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: you know, look at her boots and her pickup truck 306 00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: and she has a Doberman pincher Like this is very unbecoming. Uh, 307 00:19:42,680 --> 00:19:45,639 Speaker 1: she has a very over overbearing style. Where they were 308 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,919 Speaker 1: trying to prove was that the roommate had brainwashed her 309 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: into becoming a lesbian and just look at her with 310 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: her boots and her pickup truck. So eventually goes to 311 00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:02,320 Speaker 1: trial and the judge, um Hamilton County Judge Simon Lese 312 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,600 Speaker 1: l e I s he was not very sympathetic at 313 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,560 Speaker 1: all of her lifestyle. Of course. Uh. He said homosexuality 314 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:13,199 Speaker 1: was immoral and uh. Even he told the jury that 315 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 1: the lifestyle was an issue, but I'm not going to 316 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: represent to you that I approve of the sexual preference. 317 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:23,479 Speaker 1: And she called it unnatural. So eventually he said what 318 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:25,400 Speaker 1: the parents did was wrong, but I don't think there's 319 00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 1: any question that they did was totally done out of 320 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: love for their daughter. Uh. And he described the tactics, 321 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,040 Speaker 1: even the rape, as to detract, like you said, from 322 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: her lesbianism and attractor to heterosexual activity. So he got 323 00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,160 Speaker 1: off with that one. Huh uh yeah, And I don't 324 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: think he was actually in the room like it was. 325 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 1: There was a lot of back and forth on like 326 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:48,680 Speaker 1: what he knew and what he didn't know about this case. 327 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 1: But the guy who raped her got away with it. 328 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 1: And this is I mean that was again he was 329 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,480 Speaker 1: dragged to court over and over again, and it wasn't 330 00:20:56,960 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: a lot of the cult groups did not fight back, 331 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: and in some cases because they didn't want to open 332 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: their books from what I understand, which they may have 333 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: had to had they fought anything like this in court, 334 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:13,480 Speaker 1: but also because America as a whole was against them, 335 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:16,600 Speaker 1: Like can you remember Airplane, the original one? I just 336 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 1: watched it the other day where he just beats up 337 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 1: a bunch of mooneyes in the airport who are trying 338 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: to like offer him a free flower. One of them 339 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: is Joe Iszuzu. For God's sake, he's America's sweetheart. Well 340 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,320 Speaker 1: he should have been beating up for that. So um, 341 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,919 Speaker 1: there was this this It was a joke, obviously, but 342 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,360 Speaker 1: it it definitely pointed out this whole sentiment that America 343 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: had toward cults at the time, which was like they 344 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: it was open season, man, they were fair game inside 345 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:44,720 Speaker 1: and outside of court. There's an indictment in New York 346 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 1: where they indicted some Harri Christna leaders for using mind control. 347 00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:53,199 Speaker 1: In an indictment in a court of law, the words 348 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:57,240 Speaker 1: mind control were used to indict somebody for a crime 349 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: which which has never been even proven, Like, how do 350 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,679 Speaker 1: you mind control somebody? It's crazy? But this was like 351 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: the kind of the sentiment that was going on at 352 00:22:07,080 --> 00:22:11,440 Speaker 1: the time, right, And so you could be if you 353 00:22:11,480 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: were a member of what was considered a cult group 354 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,879 Speaker 1: and your parents were well healed enough to afford the 355 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: cult awareness network. You could be sitting there hanging out 356 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: in the commune one day, playing your acoustic guitar. What 357 00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:29,400 Speaker 1: have you thinking about consciousness and the universality of it? 358 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,360 Speaker 1: And all of a sudden, the door gets kicked in 359 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 1: and Ted Patrick and some of his henchmen enter grab you. 360 00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: Your buddy stands up to be like, hey man, you 361 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 1: can't do that, and they mace him and they take you, 362 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,800 Speaker 1: throw you in a van, drive you several states over, 363 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: maybe to your parents house. I think they frequently used 364 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 1: the parents house because it added like an extra sense 365 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 1: of legality to it. And then they would keep you 366 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: there for as long as they wanted to. They would 367 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: beat you, they would um abu use you physically, emotionally, 368 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:06,199 Speaker 1: verbally um. They would starve you, they would deprive you 369 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,480 Speaker 1: of sleep um and you weren't allowed to leave. You 370 00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,199 Speaker 1: were berated constantly. They would take shifts, they would have 371 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: your family come in and berate you. And all of 372 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,400 Speaker 1: this was completely made up out of whole cloth by 373 00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: Ted Patrick. Like he he had no training whatsoever in 374 00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 1: any kind of brainwash techniques. There is no training, right 375 00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: he but he just kind of intuitively got that, like 376 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: if you deprive someone of sleep or food, they'll start 377 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 1: to do what you want them to and um, the 378 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: whole goal of it, as far as he was concerned, 379 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:41,400 Speaker 1: was to create um to snap somebody out of it. 380 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 1: And when somebody snapped, they basically gave into your will 381 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 1: and that they were no longer resisting. They were no 382 00:23:49,160 --> 00:23:52,760 Speaker 1: longer saying, uh, my right to be a harry Christmas 383 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: protected by the First Amendment. You have kidnapped me. I 384 00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 1: want to go, please leave, Please leave me alone. They 385 00:24:00,119 --> 00:24:02,480 Speaker 1: just said, fine, you're right, I don't want to be 386 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,440 Speaker 1: a hard Christian anymore. That could be snapping. It could 387 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,679 Speaker 1: also be something that was a lot closer um and 388 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 1: complexion to something like that religious conversion. But it would 389 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 1: be like a conversion back where they'd start crying and weeping. 390 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,359 Speaker 1: And these are the ones that were frequently pointed to 391 00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: as proof positive that deep programming actually worked because there 392 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,240 Speaker 1: are a lot of people who are deprogramming. You said, 393 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:28,840 Speaker 1: this is a great thing for me, um, But it 394 00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:33,679 Speaker 1: has been explained time and time again as basically, a 395 00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,239 Speaker 1: lot of kids who joined cults did so because they 396 00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,320 Speaker 1: felt like they weren't accepted at home or by their 397 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: families or whatever. And they would see once they were 398 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 1: kidnapped and and taking back to their parents house that 399 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,480 Speaker 1: maybe their parents actually did care about them more than 400 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: they realized. They were willing to spend some money and 401 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,199 Speaker 1: hire Black Lightning to come beat me up until I 402 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 1: agree to come back home. So maybe that was the 403 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: reason for this this snapping. Yeah, and sometimes they would 404 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,240 Speaker 1: get all together to get out of that prison, which 405 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,040 Speaker 1: was the case which we'll talk about right after this 406 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: break of Jason Scott. Alright, so Jason Scott, this was 407 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: not a Patrick affair. This was a guy named Rick 408 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 1: Ross and another guy, two guys named Mark Workman and 409 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:49,120 Speaker 1: Charles Simpson. Yes, but they were referred by the cult 410 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 1: Awareness Networks, that's right, was involved. Well, yeah, they were referred, 411 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 1: But this wasn't Patrick heading up this operation. Uh. And 412 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 1: this is a guy named Jason Scott, and he was 413 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:04,040 Speaker 1: kidnaped and brought to UH out in the Booneys in 414 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 1: Washington State, and he was held there for days against 415 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 1: his will, physically abused all the stuff that we've been 416 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: going over because they wanted him to leave this Pentecostal 417 00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,120 Speaker 1: church that he was in with his brothers. I think 418 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: his mom was in it at one point, but she left. 419 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: The sons decided to stay and she was like, I 420 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,119 Speaker 1: don't like what's going on over there, so she hired 421 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:31,040 Speaker 1: them uh to to de program him. UM it failed 422 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:36,400 Speaker 1: in that. Scott eventually UM faked that he was after 423 00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: four days of torture. He faked it and said, I 424 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: don't believe that stuff anymore. He broke down in tears 425 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: and said he completely rebuked everything that he had stood for. 426 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,240 Speaker 1: And so they said, well, this is great. It worked. 427 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,359 Speaker 1: Let's go out for a celebration dinner with your family 428 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 1: and um he was allowed to use the bathroom at 429 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 1: the restaurant by himself for the first time in a week, 430 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: and he ran to the police and the police arrested 431 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,960 Speaker 1: these guys. UM. There were there was a civil suit filed. 432 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: This is where it gets really interesting. There was a 433 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: civil suit filed on Jason Scott's behalf by counselor for 434 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 1: the Church of Science lead counsel by the Church of Scientology. 435 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:22,480 Speaker 1: So now Scientology is getting involved. They end up bankrupt 436 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: ing through this court case. They awarded eight hundred seventy 437 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:31,280 Speaker 1: five thou dollars in compensatory damages a million and damages 438 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: of punitive nature against the Cult Awareness Network and two 439 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:39,520 Speaker 1: point five million against Ross himself. It ended up bankrupting them, 440 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: and then the Church of Scientology buys out the Cult 441 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: Awareness Network in bankruptcy court, buys their assets, buys their logo, 442 00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,920 Speaker 1: buys your name, renames it the new Cult Awareness Network, 443 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: and now it is run by the Church of Scientology. Right, 444 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: So if you're looking for help to get your kid 445 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 1: out of a cult, including Scientology, the hopeful people there 446 00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: will explain to you how great Scientology is. What's funny, though, 447 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: is that, like this this um Jason Scott case was 448 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: one of about fifty that were brought at the time 449 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:12,280 Speaker 1: through Scientology lawyers. This just happened to be the one 450 00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:14,119 Speaker 1: that stuck. Yeah, it went all the way to the 451 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 1: Supreme Court where they denied the appeal and in the 452 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 1: end Scott only got about five thousand dollars and two 453 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,960 Speaker 1: hundred hours of professional services from Ross, which I didn't understand. 454 00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,119 Speaker 1: I'll explain it to you. So, um, they became buddies. 455 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:34,400 Speaker 1: Apparently they did become buddies. So apparently Jason Scott did. 456 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:38,920 Speaker 1: He forgave his mother. He also forgave Rick Ross. He 457 00:28:39,120 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 1: broke from the scientology um lawyer. He had a different 458 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: look after. I guess he felt a little fleeced maybe 459 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,440 Speaker 1: by the scientologist or used, I should say, and ended 460 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 1: up being chummy with Rick Ross. So he sold Rick 461 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 1: Ross his settlement which should have been three million dollars 462 00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 1: for five grand and two hundred hours of his services 463 00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 1: of depro ramming services right the D program. I think 464 00:29:02,520 --> 00:29:07,080 Speaker 1: his daughter something like that. That's what I couldn't find. Yeah, So, um, 465 00:29:07,280 --> 00:29:09,920 Speaker 1: Rick Cross is still at it. He's a he's an 466 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,600 Speaker 1: exit counselor um and he if you listen to him talk, 467 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: it's really weird. Man. While approaching this from the outside, 468 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: like there was a war that was going on that 469 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:24,480 Speaker 1: is still being fought here there, but the average person 470 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,600 Speaker 1: wouldn't know about it. In the media, between the anti 471 00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: cult movement, which is headed up by people like Ted 472 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,400 Speaker 1: Patrick and Rick Ross and the Cult Awareness Network, the 473 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:39,160 Speaker 1: old version of it, and the I guess cult movement, 474 00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: which has as disparate members as the Church of Scientology 475 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,360 Speaker 1: that the Catholic League First Amendment people like the a 476 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: c l U on another side. So there's this weird, 477 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: like this battle that went on in Scientology ultimately one 478 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: just because they bled the anti cult movement out in 479 00:30:02,320 --> 00:30:05,200 Speaker 1: the courts. But like I said, Rick Cross is still 480 00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,360 Speaker 1: at it. What he's doing now is exit counseling. And 481 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: if before deep programming was coercive brainwashing, then um exit 482 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: counseling is the opposite of that. It's basically like a 483 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: drug intervention, but as far as cults are concerned, Yeah, 484 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,240 Speaker 1: the idea is that you get the whole family involved, 485 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 1: You get the person who you're trying to UH counsel 486 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,560 Speaker 1: I guess involved, and they all agree to meet and 487 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:38,080 Speaker 1: they talked to them about what they were doing, and 488 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: they explained to them about the harmful practices of that 489 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 1: cult or not cult, depending on what it is, and 490 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: UM essentially involved, it's a it's a really intensive therapy 491 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: group therapy with your family, but again not coerced supposedly 492 00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,320 Speaker 1: voluntary and the proper way to go about it. It's 493 00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: still expensive though, right, But like a normal intervention or 494 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: like a drug related intervention, like it'll probably be a 495 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:12,200 Speaker 1: surprise to the UM, the cult member UM, but in 496 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: a in a exit counseling, seminar session or whatever, that 497 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: that person has to agree to stick around and listen, 498 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,760 Speaker 1: like they can leave at any point in time. There's 499 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: no more kidnapping and duct taping. So that's the state 500 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:30,960 Speaker 1: of affairs now. And it's really weird again because this 501 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: is the remnants of this this info war that went 502 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 1: on between the anti cult movement and the cult movement 503 00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: or the New Religious Movement movement, and UM, it's really 504 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,320 Speaker 1: kind of the whole thing is muddy morally speaking, because 505 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: there are people walking around, including ones that were abducted 506 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: and beaten up or mistreated or abused or tortured by 507 00:31:56,560 --> 00:32:00,800 Speaker 1: Cult Awareness Network or other d programmers, who say, if 508 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: it weren't for those guys, I'd probably still being a 509 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:05,800 Speaker 1: cult right now. And I'm really grateful to my parents 510 00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:08,959 Speaker 1: for showing out the money to have these guys kidnap 511 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: me because I was really I was lost in life 512 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: and very vulnerable at the time, and this really helped 513 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: get me back on track. Well, yeah, and cults can 514 00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:25,120 Speaker 1: be destructive and in uh, destroy people's lives and kill people. Um, 515 00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:26,760 Speaker 1: but what you can't do is just I think the 516 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: problem came when everything was lumped together in one big under, 517 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,080 Speaker 1: one big umbrella called a cult. Exactly. That's exactly right, 518 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 1: because who was Ted Patrick or anybody else the great 519 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: decider of what made acceptable religious beliefs and non acceptable 520 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 1: religious beliefs? Like, where was that dividing line and who 521 00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 1: gave him the right to do it? Man? Could you 522 00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: imagine if this was going on today with the way 523 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:54,040 Speaker 1: things are, Well, it kept going until was when the 524 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: judgment came down that backup the cult Awareness Network. Yeah, 525 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: I mean, with the way things are, I could see 526 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:05,280 Speaker 1: I could see Wacko's left and right hiring people to 527 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: abduct their children and set them straight. You know, well, 528 00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: supposedly they made out pretty well in the Satanic panic 529 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 1: of the eighties. To that that documentary D Programmed is 530 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:20,959 Speaker 1: largely about the director's stepbrother, who was the programmed by 531 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: Ted Patrick because their parents thought that he was a 532 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: Satanist or whatever because he listened to metal. We should 533 00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:30,160 Speaker 1: do one on the PMRC and backmasking that whole. We'll 534 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 1: just call it like eighties satanic panic or something. Let's 535 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: do it. It would be a good one. Uh. There's 536 00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,640 Speaker 1: a book. Ted Patrick wrote a book called Let Our 537 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 1: Children Go. There's an exclamation point in the title. That's right, 538 00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: because you better uh, in nineteen seventy six, and here 539 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: was one quote of something he bragged a lot about 540 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,840 Speaker 1: some of these things. He said, Uh, he's something out West, 541 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 1: one of the people he d programmed. He said, West 542 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: had taken up a position facing the car with his 543 00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:58,280 Speaker 1: hands on the roof and his legs spread eagled. There 544 00:33:58,320 --> 00:33:59,880 Speaker 1: was no way to let him inside while he was 545 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: race like that. I had to make a quick decision. 546 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:04,440 Speaker 1: I reached down between what's his legs, grabbed him by 547 00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: the crotch and squeezed hard. He let out a howl 548 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: and doubled up, grabbing for his groin with both hands. 549 00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: Then I hit, shoving him headfirst into the back seat 550 00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,280 Speaker 1: of the car and piling in on top of him. 551 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,040 Speaker 1: And then the Jason Scott I think was you know 552 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: duct tape put face down in a van and like 553 00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:25,920 Speaker 1: this three pound guy sat on him, and that can 554 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:31,080 Speaker 1: kill you. Yes, I can pretty kokie stuff. Man. Yeah, 555 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:35,200 Speaker 1: let's uh, how to combat brainwashing by brainwashing? I love 556 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,000 Speaker 1: any looking back in America's recent path to see how 557 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,239 Speaker 1: crazy it's been from time to time. Every once a 558 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: while it just goes nuts. We just go crazy. Yeah. Um, 559 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 1: let's see you got anything else? I got nothing else. 560 00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:54,359 Speaker 1: If you want to know more about deep programming, you 561 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:56,760 Speaker 1: can type those words in the search bar how stuff 562 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,000 Speaker 1: works dot com. And since I said search bars, time 563 00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 1: for listener mail. Hey guys, just finished listening to your 564 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:07,480 Speaker 1: Hot Air Balloons podcast. I'm calling this hot air Balloon email. 565 00:35:07,560 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 1: I jumped the gun having worked for a hot air 566 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,840 Speaker 1: balloon company for two years in Napa Valley where I 567 00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,120 Speaker 1: grew up. I worked on the ground crew, the chase 568 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,440 Speaker 1: crew as we called it. The company I worked for 569 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 1: a Napa Valley balloons as balloons that can fit two 570 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:22,760 Speaker 1: people all the way up to twenty people. The envelope, 571 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: although it looks like, can weigh an excess of six 572 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 1: hundred pounds, and the basket is easily twice that, if 573 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,240 Speaker 1: not more. And he wrote a lot about the getting 574 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,280 Speaker 1: all the hot air out and what an arduous process 575 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,759 Speaker 1: that was. And then he has another good little story here. 576 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: One day after we launched the balloons from just north 577 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 1: of Napa, the wind picked up and one of the 578 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,480 Speaker 1: pilots couldn't find a safe place to land. Uh. And 579 00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: we call this Josh's worst nightmare of fortune. The balloon 580 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: kept going south and what was supposed to be in 581 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,600 Speaker 1: our flight was getting close to two hours. The balloon 582 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,200 Speaker 1: got so far south that it was approaching the San 583 00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 1: Francisco Bay, and if it got over the bay, the 584 00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:59,960 Speaker 1: balloon wouldn't have enough fuel to make it to land again. 585 00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: And so the pilot made an emergency landing in a 586 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,640 Speaker 1: wheat field that was the last land before the bay. 587 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 1: You try not to land somewhere without permission, but in 588 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,520 Speaker 1: this case it was an emergency. The pilot left with 589 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,000 Speaker 1: the customers, so we had to contact the owner of 590 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 1: the land and had to be let onto the property 591 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:18,360 Speaker 1: get our balloon. Understandably, the owner was angry, but we 592 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,799 Speaker 1: gave him a bottle of champagne as you said, they 593 00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,560 Speaker 1: still do that, uh, and offered to pay for the 594 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 1: damages to his crops. While most flights had now issues whatsoever, 595 00:36:26,960 --> 00:36:28,880 Speaker 1: That someone sticks out of my mind because it was 596 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:34,640 Speaker 1: a particularly exciting day nice. That is Ryan from Washington, 597 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,200 Speaker 1: d C. The NAPA that light. I like the the 598 00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 1: part about champagne. Sure. I like the part where the 599 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:46,720 Speaker 1: pilot left with the customers really quickly after he landed. 600 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:54,360 Speaker 1: Who is that Ryan? Thanks? Ryan, that was a good story. Again, 601 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: I like the champagne part. Then, if you want to 602 00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:58,520 Speaker 1: get in touch of this and tell us all of 603 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,400 Speaker 1: your champagne, which is and KVR dreams, you can tweet 604 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 1: to us at s Y s K podcast. You can 605 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 1: join us on Facebook dot com, slash Stuff you Should Know. 606 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:10,359 Speaker 1: You can send us an email to Stuff Podcast at 607 00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:12,759 Speaker 1: how stuff Works dot com and has always joined us 608 00:37:12,800 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 1: at our home on the web, Stuff you Should Know 609 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:26,880 Speaker 1: dot com For more on this and thousands of other topics, 610 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:35,959 Speaker 1: is it how stuff Works dot com