WEBVTT - ICYMI: Inside Gap’s Last-Ditch, Tariff-Addled Turnaround Push

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. You're listening to Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>Business Week with Carol Masser and tim Stenoveek on Bloomberg Radio.

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<v Speaker 1>All right, well, let's get to it because it's the

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<v Speaker 1>cover of the July US edition of Bloomberg Business Week.

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<v Speaker 1>It's about the Gap CEO's battle to save the brand

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<v Speaker 1>and the challenge that it is slammed into as a

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<v Speaker 1>result of the President's tariffs. The iconic nineties retailer was

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<v Speaker 1>on the precipice of death for years. Richard Dixon finally

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<v Speaker 1>had momentum for a comeback, then came Trump. Amanda Mole

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<v Speaker 1>is the lead writer on the story. She joins us

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<v Speaker 1>here in the Bloomberg Interactive Brokers Studio a great deep

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<v Speaker 1>dive on Gap. Congratulations on the cover story. Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>I want to start historical here and just remind everybody

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<v Speaker 1>what Gap was and what sort of happened when it

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<v Speaker 1>lost its way. Like I'm asking you to give us

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<v Speaker 1>the entire story here, but think back to the nineties.

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<v Speaker 2>And fall into the Gap fell into a slump, Yes

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<v Speaker 2>it did.

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<v Speaker 1>But the nineties this was so I remember. I remember

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<v Speaker 1>having my parents' friends coming and visiting us, from Europe

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<v Speaker 1>in a small town in California, and they wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>go to The Gap absolutely when they got to the

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<v Speaker 1>United States, right, yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, It's it's hard to explain to people who are

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<v Speaker 3>too young to like be aware of pop culture during

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<v Speaker 3>the eighties and nineties, but The Gap was sort of

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<v Speaker 3>like the king of American aesthetics for for quite a

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<v Speaker 3>while during the eighties and the nineties. It was a

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<v Speaker 3>store that was so powerful and so so well trafficked

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<v Speaker 3>that it commanded some of the same least terms in

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<v Speaker 3>malls is like anchor department stores that were much much

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<v Speaker 3>larger it. You know, it was a company that that

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<v Speaker 3>sort of married the sort of casualizing clothes of the

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<v Speaker 3>era with this sort of like great fluency in pop culture.

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<v Speaker 3>It's advertisements were these like incredible black and white portraits

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<v Speaker 3>of you know, iconic celebrities and tastemakers, people like Spike Lee,

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<v Speaker 3>Joan Didion, you know, by these fashion photographers who were

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<v Speaker 3>some of the most celebrated minds in the business. It really,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, cast a net in culture outside of the

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<v Speaker 3>you know, forty dollars jeans and fifteen dollars t shirts.

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<v Speaker 3>It clothed everybody. The one hundredth anniversary issue of Vogue

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<v Speaker 3>featured supermodels on the cover wearing Gap jeans and button downs.

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<v Speaker 3>It was truly an incredible force in, you know, creating

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<v Speaker 3>the idea of how Americans dressed now.

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<v Speaker 2>Until it wasn't until it wasn't like what brought it

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<v Speaker 2>down too much competition, like talk walk us through.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, you know, over the past forty years, American retail

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<v Speaker 3>has just changed a lot. Gap really thrived in an

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<v Speaker 3>era when people went out to shop, when people went

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<v Speaker 3>to malls. The rise of the Gap as a national

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<v Speaker 3>retailer sort of sort of mirrors the rise of the

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<v Speaker 3>suburban mall as the place that people thought about going

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<v Speaker 3>to do their shopping for clothes as a cool place

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<v Speaker 3>to go. And when malls started to decline, so to

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<v Speaker 3>Gap for many of the same reasons. Gap had grown

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<v Speaker 3>really really large at that point, and it had a

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<v Speaker 3>lot of leases and a lot of sort of aging

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<v Speaker 3>shopping centers across America. And then you get the one

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<v Speaker 3>two punch of some regulatory changes in the mid two

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<v Speaker 3>thousands that led in a lot of international fast fashion

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<v Speaker 3>retailers Zara, h and m things like that, And then

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<v Speaker 3>the Internet gave people in you know, virtually everywhere in

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<v Speaker 3>America a much wider access to different types of clothing.

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<v Speaker 3>So suddenly there was just a ton of cheap clothes everywhere.

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<v Speaker 3>And the sort of gamut that the Gap ran, which

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<v Speaker 3>was you know, cool jeans and T shirts, people had

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<v Speaker 3>caught onto it, people imitating what they were doing. And

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<v Speaker 3>so you combine that sort of like lease load in

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<v Speaker 3>debt load that they had with all this new competition

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<v Speaker 3>in these new retail channels, and they just fell off.

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<v Speaker 1>We're going to get to Richard Dixon and the task

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<v Speaker 1>that he has set out in the for him and

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<v Speaker 1>the obstacles he has ahead of him in a second.

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<v Speaker 1>First though, Mickey Drexler a legendary name in the world

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<v Speaker 1>of retail. What was his what was his role in

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<v Speaker 1>where Gap is today?

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<v Speaker 3>Mickey like was Gap for twenty years. The Fishers, the

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<v Speaker 3>family that found a Gap, hired him in nineteen eighty

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<v Speaker 3>three after he had turned around and Taylor and he

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<v Speaker 3>stayed at Gap for almost twenty years. After that. He

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<v Speaker 3>built the company into the sort of cultural engine that

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<v Speaker 3>it was at its peak. He sort of understood that, like,

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<v Speaker 3>in order to sell jeans and T shirts, you had

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<v Speaker 3>the jeans and T shirts had to mean something, and

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<v Speaker 3>he was great at making meaning out of sort of

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<v Speaker 3>regular close and he was great at, you know, organizing

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<v Speaker 3>a company that really sort of kept its fingers on

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<v Speaker 3>the pulse of like what people were interested in, interested

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<v Speaker 3>in what felt cool, like what might motivate people to

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<v Speaker 3>go out and buy something. And he for twenty years

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<v Speaker 3>was sort of fantastically successful at that, but at the

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<v Speaker 3>end it wasn't enough to save his job.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And I feel like then they kind of bounced

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<v Speaker 2>around a lot, right, I think, like trying to figure

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<v Speaker 2>out what they need to be in this very as

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<v Speaker 2>you say, I think you played out really like I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>let's be clear, retail has had a really tough time

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<v Speaker 2>for a long time, and so the dust is settling.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I even think about Levi's that has gone

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<v Speaker 2>through a revival of sorts. I just bought a pair

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<v Speaker 2>of Levi's. I haven't bought Levi's in such a long time.

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<v Speaker 2>But for the gap, they went through a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>bouncing around, and that also takes its toll.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, So in between Mickey Drexler and Richard Dixon, the

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<v Speaker 3>current CEO or four CEOs who.

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<v Speaker 1>Were that's over like about twenty three years.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, so they lasted it was actually almost almost exactly

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<v Speaker 3>twenty years, so that they lasted all about like four

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<v Speaker 3>or five years of piece on average.

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<v Speaker 2>Just about getting settled, yeah, initiatives, and then it's like

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<v Speaker 2>gone right.

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<v Speaker 3>And you know, the trouble that GAP has had with

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<v Speaker 3>executives over the past twenty years mirrors a lot of

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<v Speaker 3>the trouble that other sort of like Great American companies

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<v Speaker 3>have had in that period of time looking for people

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<v Speaker 3>to bring in to like solve one problem while then

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<v Speaker 3>accidentally making another problem worse. So you bring in someone

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<v Speaker 3>to deal with the debt load and deal with margin,

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<v Speaker 3>and then they do that, but creativity sort of plummets.

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<v Speaker 3>Then you bring someone into to deal with like the

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<v Speaker 3>the sort of overabundance of leases and closed stores and

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<v Speaker 3>streamline and they do that, but then the quality of

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<v Speaker 3>the clothes also goes down because they're streamlining the you know,

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<v Speaker 3>the materials being used. So you are sort of playing

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<v Speaker 3>whack a mole with all of these different problems. And

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<v Speaker 3>when you are bringing on executives that are meant to

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<v Speaker 3>deal with sort of like systemic issues or logistical issues

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<v Speaker 3>or financial issues, within a company. In a company that

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<v Speaker 3>sells aesthetics, that sells ideas, that sells coolness, that can

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<v Speaker 3>be really, really difficult in the long term unless you

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<v Speaker 3>have like a sort of rare type of person and

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<v Speaker 3>it's just hard to find that person.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, it's funny as they've gone along, like

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<v Speaker 2>I feel think about I don't know, when my daughter

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<v Speaker 2>was young, our Gap baby and Gap and Kids, like

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<v Speaker 2>it seemed super successful, like there are things that they've

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<v Speaker 2>done that have done well, and then I don't know,

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<v Speaker 2>like just I don't know whether it runs out of

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<v Speaker 2>steam or momentum. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, No, Gap is a fascinating company because it's got

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<v Speaker 3>a bunch of brands within it. It's got Gap, but

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<v Speaker 3>then Old Navy, Banana Republic, Athleta, Athleta right, and then

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<v Speaker 3>it's a bunch of those brands have sub brands too,

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<v Speaker 3>So like Gap has Gap Kids, Banana Republic, tried Banana

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<v Speaker 3>Republic Home. There used to be Piperlime, which was a

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<v Speaker 3>zappost competitor. There was Intermix, which GAT bought and then

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<v Speaker 3>sold Told Equity. It was trying to get more into

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<v Speaker 3>like the higher end fashion game. Like there's been all

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<v Speaker 3>these sort of like side quests and boondoggles and sub

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<v Speaker 3>brands and things that just didn't work. And what has

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<v Speaker 3>underwritten a lot of that for a long time is

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<v Speaker 3>Old Navy. One of Mickey Drexler's big things that he

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<v Speaker 3>did for the company was launch Old Navy in nineteen

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<v Speaker 3>ninety four and in that time GAP's revenue has has

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<v Speaker 3>fallen by about half since its peak in two thousand

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<v Speaker 3>and three ish, But Old Navy sells over eight billion

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<v Speaker 3>dollars worth of clothes every year and has really like

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<v Speaker 3>financed all these boon doggles.

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<v Speaker 2>Can I tell you so many times I'll be like,

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<v Speaker 2>that's really great Old Navy, Like it's just and like

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<v Speaker 2>fashion forward, even like it's pretty impressive.

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<v Speaker 1>So let's fast forward to today, because you've got a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of time with Richard Dixon and some really interesting

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<v Speaker 1>commentary about like what he did when he first got

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<v Speaker 1>to the role in terms of taking the executive shopping,

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<v Speaker 1>hearing about their like relentless positivity and meetings that he

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<v Speaker 1>didn't necessarily see as realistic. What is his path forward

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<v Speaker 1>in the face of tariffs, which you write the piece,

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<v Speaker 1>this company's actually pretty well positioned to deal with, right,

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<v Speaker 1>So on the face right.

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<v Speaker 3>A lot of what Dixon did when he got there

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<v Speaker 3>was sort of changed the attitude of the company, I think,

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<v Speaker 3>because it's something that's interesting always as someone who sits

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<v Speaker 3>like outside of these companies and is trying to figure

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<v Speaker 3>out what's going on that Like when you have a

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<v Speaker 3>company that's been like sort of beleaguered for a long time,

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<v Speaker 3>it's I always wonder, like, what do they think about

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<v Speaker 3>what everybody says about them externally? And something that Dixon

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<v Speaker 3>told us about Lily Meyer was my co reporter on

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<v Speaker 3>the piece. She he was like, you know, he had

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<v Speaker 3>this town hall when he first got there where he

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<v Speaker 3>you know, had a a slide presentation put together of

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<v Speaker 3>all the negative headlines about the company and got up

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<v Speaker 3>in front of the company and was like, everybody knows

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<v Speaker 3>what we should be doing except us, and it's hard

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<v Speaker 3>to say that they're wrong. It was sort of like,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, this like huge legacy company had become like

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<v Speaker 3>a little bit moribund, a little bit complacent, and sort

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<v Speaker 3>of figuring out a way out of that psychologically, I

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<v Speaker 3>think has been a big part of his tenure so far.

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<v Speaker 3>And when you combine that with the sort of like

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<v Speaker 3>long un sexy work that has been going on, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>under him, but also before him, of cleaning up the

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<v Speaker 3>company's debt, of cleaning up the discounting situation, because a

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<v Speaker 3>big issue for Gap has been that they've trained their

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<v Speaker 3>customers to expect everything to be fifty percent off all

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<v Speaker 3>the time. And it's really hard to grow a business.

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<v Speaker 2>So true, it's so true, like you get used to

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<v Speaker 2>it and then no, no, and then exactly you know

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<v Speaker 2>it and you know it's coming. I thought you were

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<v Speaker 2>going to say the barrel gene saved the company.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, they I think are indicative of something that might

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<v Speaker 3>save the company. I would say, which is the capacity

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<v Speaker 3>now for Gap? Because it's cleaned up its logistics, it's

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<v Speaker 3>cleans up its supply chain a little bit to see

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<v Speaker 3>a trend coming, to have a product ready to go

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<v Speaker 3>and have the technological and data capability to like put

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<v Speaker 3>it into stores like at the right moment in order

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<v Speaker 3>to like sell a bunch of it and not have

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<v Speaker 3>to discount it and not have to send it to

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<v Speaker 3>outlet and not have to you know.

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<v Speaker 2>Doesn't end up at tjmax.

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<v Speaker 3>Sorry, yeah, so far, not for these so far, not

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<v Speaker 3>for these genes. And it's it's interesting because it's a barrel.

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<v Speaker 3>Genes are sort of these like like curved outward like

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<v Speaker 3>sort of cartoon cowboy leg jeans that are a little

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<v Speaker 3>bit silly and like very trendy and very young, and

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<v Speaker 3>it's the type of thing that for twenty years, GAP

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<v Speaker 3>has not been able to do because they either bet

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<v Speaker 3>on the wrong thing or it's too earlier, it's too late.

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<v Speaker 3>But the success that they've had with these genes, which

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<v Speaker 3>aren't cheap and they don't discount all of the popular

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<v Speaker 3>colors regularly, is indicative that they figured out the data

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<v Speaker 3>and logistics capabilities to be able to like compete in

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<v Speaker 3>this realm, which is big for them.

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<v Speaker 2>I think, yeah, I mean, but it's certainly fashion forward.

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<v Speaker 2>I've tried them on. They're just not quite for me.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know. Have you tried them on?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't even know what you're talking about.

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<v Speaker 2>Have you tried them on?

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<v Speaker 3>I bought a parawise the story did. Yeah, if you

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<v Speaker 3>get him in the right the right like weight of Denham,

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<v Speaker 3>they like they look more slouchy than Curby went on.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, because otherwise you feel like you're like, okay, corral.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, it's a little it's a little cartoon cowboy.

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<v Speaker 2>Amnimal, you are amazing. She is seen a reporter for

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<v Speaker 2>Bloomberg business Week. Her story it is the cover story

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<v Speaker 2>of the upcoming new issue of Bloomberg Business Week about

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<v Speaker 2>GAP CEO's battle to save the brand, slamming into Trump's terrors,

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<v Speaker 2>because yeah, that is certainly an aspect of this story

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<v Speaker 2>as well, in a big way,