1 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:06,400 Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh, and 2 00:00:06,440 --> 00:00:09,799 Speaker 1: there's Chuck and here's Jerry. And if you feigned the 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: side of blood, or even discussions about it, you should 4 00:00:11,960 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: probably stop listening. Now, That's right. Beca it is. It 5 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: is a thing. It doesn't bother me. I don't. I 6 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: don't love the side of blood, but I'm not too 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 1: easily grossed out. I can watch a surgery on TV 8 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,640 Speaker 1: and I'm fine. I like writhing, naked and blood. That's 9 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 1: how much I love blood. Oh good Lord, covering my 10 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: entire gigantic body. Wo So anyway, um, if because I 11 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: can do that, I clearly don't have chuck particular phobia 12 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: about feigning at the side of blood. And that's really 13 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 1: what the whole thing is coming down to is we'll 14 00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:50,919 Speaker 1: see but feigning itself in this particular kind of fainting. 15 00:00:51,120 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 1: And this is a thing like people actually do this. 16 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:59,320 Speaker 1: It's not like some movie or TV trope. Yes, but 17 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: when you feign to the side of blood, there's a 18 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: specific physiological faint that's going on. There's different kinds of fainting, 19 00:01:07,000 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: and this one in particular is what's called the vaso 20 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: vegel syncope and vasile refers to your like your blood vessels. 21 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 1: Vegel refers to the vegas nerve, which was played a 22 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:22,840 Speaker 1: huge starring role in our episode on what happens in 23 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: the brain during an orgasm. The reason the vegas nerve 24 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 1: gets a shout out in this this name for this um, 25 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,279 Speaker 1: this type of fainting is because it has it plays 26 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:35,759 Speaker 1: a role in controlling the speed and rhythm of your heart. 27 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,399 Speaker 1: And then syncope is just another word for fainting, for 28 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: loss of consciousness. That's right. Uh, we know some things 29 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 1: and don't know other things. We know that it is 30 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: a legit phobia. It's about three to fifteen percent of 31 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: people have this where they faint at the side of blood. 32 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: And we also know that it's not just the side 33 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: of blood. It can be an injury that you witness 34 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: even like I think you pointed out here, like someone 35 00:02:02,520 --> 00:02:05,280 Speaker 1: slaying their hand in a car. Or it can be 36 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: needle centric, like if someone's coming at you to give 37 00:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,280 Speaker 1: you a shot, you can pass out. So the technical 38 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:14,519 Speaker 1: name for the phobia is b I I blood injury 39 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: injection phobia, right, um. And it is a phobia because 40 00:02:19,760 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 1: there's there's no real danger or anything to truly be 41 00:02:23,360 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: feared from a you know, hypodermic needle or something like that, 42 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 1: even though there is plenty of danger from it, that's 43 00:02:30,600 --> 00:02:33,440 Speaker 1: still considered interrational fear, you know what I'm saying. Sure 44 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:35,240 Speaker 1: you're not in a horror movie and they're not gonna 45 00:02:35,280 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: put it in your eyeball, so right, And so with phobias, 46 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 1: um B I I is actually a peculiar type because 47 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 1: with um vaso vagel syncope, you're fainting because your your 48 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: heart has slowed down enough that your blood pressure drops, 49 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: which robs your brain of the very important blood it 50 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: needs to function correctly, and you lose consciousness until your heart, 51 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 1: you know, reins in northern normal rhythm again, which it 52 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 1: does on its own. And that means that B I 53 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: I is its own kind of phobia, because with most phobias, 54 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,320 Speaker 1: that's not how this goes down at all. No, Uh, 55 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: with most phobias, you're gonna like have a spike in 56 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,640 Speaker 1: your heart rate initially, and then that'll probably lead to 57 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:20,440 Speaker 1: like a fight or flight type of thing. It will 58 00:03:20,480 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: really ramp everything up. And we be I I. You 59 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: do have that initial, very brief spike in your heart rate, 60 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:31,360 Speaker 1: but then it just goes boo, and everything slows down 61 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 1: and you hit the bricks. Basically, Yeah, so that makes 62 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 1: it very strange. As far as they know, there's no 63 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:43,320 Speaker 1: other phobia that produces this effect, um, except for the 64 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: blood injury injection phobia. But they after digging a little 65 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:52,840 Speaker 1: deeper into this this um kind of odd malady frankly um, 66 00:03:52,920 --> 00:03:55,080 Speaker 1: they found that not only is it like is there 67 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: a fear component like in other phobias, there's also a 68 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: disgust component, and that people who have blood injury injection 69 00:04:03,280 --> 00:04:07,360 Speaker 1: phobia are experiencing levels of disgust that are even higher 70 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,840 Speaker 1: than their levels of fear. So it's just a really 71 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: strange phobia all around. And it does seem to be 72 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 1: its own type. Yeah, and it does. It does. It's 73 00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: not funny, but it does make for funny moments in 74 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: movies and TV shows when someone comes running into a 75 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: room and see something awful and they go, oh my god, 76 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: and that's the initial spike. And then because it does 77 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: kind of follow it scientifically and then they just go 78 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:34,840 Speaker 1: oh and and hit the deck And it is a 79 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 1: trope for a reason. But it is interesting and that like, 80 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: scientifically that's kind of exactly what happens right, So you 81 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 1: want to take a break and then come back and 82 00:04:43,880 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: talk more about b I I phobias. La la do I. Okay, 83 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 1: So one one explanation for blood injury injection phobias is 84 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: that there's it's a gene. It's it comes from some 85 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: gene or mutation that's passed down. We don't know very 86 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: much about it. But if you consider that, um, that 87 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 1: it is conferred genetically, that suggests that there's like an 88 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: evolutionary aspect to this, that that somehow it made sense 89 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: through natural selection. But it seems like the opposite of 90 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: what would make sense through natural selection. Like if you're 91 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: if you're approached with danger or injury or something like that, 92 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 1: you see someone else being injured, you would think you'd 93 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: probably be in danger too, and so um, running away 94 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:57,919 Speaker 1: really fast, fighting back like you would think those would 95 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,080 Speaker 1: increase your odds of spreading your genes rather than fainting 96 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 1: dead away. But there's actually a theory that says, like, no, 97 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: it kind of makes sense if you look at it 98 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: this way. Yeah, and it's a theory, but the theory 99 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: goes that, like let's say you're in a battle with Took, 100 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: Took in the gang and Took Took gets clubbed on 101 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 1: the head and blood squirts out everywhere and you go 102 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 1: uh and you pass out and hit the rocks. Then 103 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: the other invading I don't even know what error we 104 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,680 Speaker 1: are with Took Took anymore, what would they be? Took 105 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:36,280 Speaker 1: Took existed about ten thousand years before UTSI, So I'm 106 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 1: gonna say he existed about eighteen thousand years ago, prior 107 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: to the advent of agriculture. All right, but what like, 108 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 1: what were they called? Those weren't Neanderthals, were they? No, 109 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: they were modern humans. They just hadn't given themselves a 110 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: name as far as we know yet. All right, So 111 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 1: the other modern humans, the invading modern humans, they they 112 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 1: run up at Took Took and Took Took or I'm sorry, 113 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,839 Speaker 1: Took Took's friend who is now passed out on the ground, 114 00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: and they just think he's dead, and they'd walk right 115 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: by him like it's the old play dead during battle thing, right, 116 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 1: Which is okay, that makes sense if you stuff and 117 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: think of it. Yeah. Um. The other thing is if 118 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: if it was Tuk Took himself who had been injured, 119 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: um and fainted at the sight of his own blood 120 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:23,040 Speaker 1: because of that drop in blood pressure, he would be 121 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: less likely to bleed out from that wound, or would 122 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: bleed out more slowly, which could in fact also save 123 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: his life too. So no, it also kinda is depending, 124 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 1: you know, but it's one of the one of the 125 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 1: few we've got because we just don't understand it, Like 126 00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:42,200 Speaker 1: we we understand the physiological component about what happens with 127 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: vaso vegel syncope. It's how the sight of blood or 128 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: somebody shutting their hand in the car door or hypodermic 129 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 1: needle triggers that. It just that's where we kind of 130 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: lose our grasp on that UM. And one of the 131 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: one of the reasons why did what would you say, 132 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: like three to fifteen percent of the population, is it? 133 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: That's a really wide estimate too, Yeah, is definitely significant, 134 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: But three to that's a that's a big gap between, 135 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,920 Speaker 1: you know, those two numbers, and it's a big gap 136 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,800 Speaker 1: in our understanding. And one of the reasons why we 137 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: understand it so little is because UM, by its very nature, 138 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: that condition prevent people from going to the places where 139 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,280 Speaker 1: they could be treated and have their conditions documented and 140 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: have estimates be a lot more accurate, which are like 141 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: doctors offices and clinics and things like that. They avoid 142 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: those places like the plague because those are the places 143 00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: where people get stuck with needles and have blood drawn 144 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: and go when they have their a huge gash in 145 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,840 Speaker 1: their forehead. Like, they don't want to go anywhere near 146 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: those places because you go into that room and they say, well, 147 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 1: let's see what's going on with you. Let me draw 148 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: some blood after I slam my hand in this drawer 149 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: looking for the needle, and it's coming at you from 150 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: all directions, So you're not going to go in there. 151 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:58,439 Speaker 1: You might even uh it can be tied to something 152 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: called medical proceduring anxiety, which sort of speaks for itself. Uh, 153 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: so you're not going into any hospital. So it's really 154 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:10,199 Speaker 1: hard to get great information about this. But our old friend, uh, 155 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:14,959 Speaker 1: Cognitive behavioral therapy can help you out, according to web md, 156 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: and there's a Swedish psychologist name Lars gerin Oost who 157 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:24,320 Speaker 1: apparently is the best in the business. And it is 158 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: like with a lot of CBT, it's self exposure. But 159 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: what you do is, and this sort of makes sense, 160 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,000 Speaker 1: what they do is they tell you too whenever you 161 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: think of anything like this, and they I think they 162 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: start out by even saying, like, just think of driving 163 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,240 Speaker 1: to a blood donation center and put that in your brain, 164 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: and you really want to tense up your muscles all once, 165 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: everything in your body because that'll just get your heart 166 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: rate going higher than it normally would be uh to 167 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: get elevated, and that's a way to combat. And then 168 00:09:54,080 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: they just make it worse from there until they are 169 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: basically playing doctor dress up and coming in with the needle. Yeah, 170 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: so teach you how to stave off fainting as step one, right, 171 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: and then after that when they're exposing you, it goes 172 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:10,160 Speaker 1: from making you imagine you're going to to get blood 173 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 1: drawn to actually showing you videos of people getting blood drawn, 174 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: to like you said, your therapist coming in like he's 175 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: a a phlebotomist with a syringe in a tourniquet and 176 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,440 Speaker 1: actually putting the tourniquet on your arm, and the whole 177 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: time you're just tensing your core so hard, trying to 178 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:31,439 Speaker 1: keep from passing out. And it sounds awful, and exposure 179 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:34,160 Speaker 1: therapy is awful when you step back and look at it, 180 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: but it actually does work. And what um what they 181 00:10:37,679 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: say is that possibly in his few as like three 182 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:45,079 Speaker 1: to five sessions of learning applied tension and then use 183 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: and then doing exposure therapy, you might actually be able 184 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: to look at blood and not faint, which is really 185 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 1: something pretty good. I think if I was the therapist, 186 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 1: I would dress up like nurse Ratchet. I would go 187 00:10:58,559 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: full bore and then you know, the person afterwards say 188 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: like what are you wearing that wig? Why are you 189 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: dressed like that? And say, I don't know. I think 190 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: it just increases the anxiety, is what I've found. I 191 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,280 Speaker 1: would dress up like the main character at the end 192 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: of promising young woman. That's what I'd come at you like, wow, wow, yeah, 193 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: scary pink wig, rubber nurse. Yeah, yeah, that's trying to 194 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 1: picture you like, that's stop that. I don't give you 195 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:30,800 Speaker 1: permission to picture me. Well, there's a million people picturing 196 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: that right now. So one other thing, chuck. The reason why, 197 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 1: aside from like it's dangerous to just faint dead away 198 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: like that. You can hit your head and you can 199 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: break an arm. All sorts of bad things can happen 200 00:11:40,120 --> 00:11:42,640 Speaker 1: to you. But one other reason why it's important to 201 00:11:42,679 --> 00:11:45,679 Speaker 1: get treatment if you do have a blood injury injection 202 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: phobia is because um, Like you said, there's that medical 203 00:11:49,880 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: UM procedure anxiety that keeps you from going into the 204 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 1: doctor's office, and that means that you're not going in 205 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: for like vaccines or cancer screenings or you know, wellness 206 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 1: checkups UM because you're avoiding the doctor's office. So there's 207 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: a lot of actual negative effects that it can have 208 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,040 Speaker 1: on your life. So if you do have that, maybe 209 00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,920 Speaker 1: go check into getting treated because apparently they've got it 210 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 1: figured out and you can not faint at the sight 211 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 1: of blood or a needle anymore. That's right. Do you 212 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,720 Speaker 1: got anything else? I have nothing else or well then uh, 213 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: that's it for short stuff. It's short stuff is out. 214 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:29,520 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of I Heart Radio. 215 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, 216 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.