WEBVTT - Reality TV vs. Modeling Competition | EP 6 0:00:00.520 --> 0:00:02.760 Hi, Curse Up listeners, I know you miss me on 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:05.560 your feed. Don't worry. We're working on an all new 0:00:05.600 --> 0:00:08.520 season of Curse Of coming out later this year. In 0:00:08.560 --> 0:00:11.879 the meantime, if you can't stop thinking about the shocking 0:00:11.920 --> 0:00:15.320 stories you heard about America's Next Top Model, you'll definitely 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:18.320 want to check out our new docuseries from E Dirty 0:00:18.400 --> 0:00:21.840 Rotten Scandals. In the series, you'll hear from the America's 0:00:21.840 --> 0:00:24.279 Next Top Model participants you heard from on Curse Of, 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:27.240 and a few you didn't like former A and TM 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:32.080 judge Janis Dickinson. Dirty Rotten Scandals unveils the dark underbelly 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:35.159 of the long running TV series through the untold stories 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:38.519 of former contestants, and shows what happens when a golden 0:00:38.560 --> 0:00:43.640 opportunity for aspiring models unravels into a harrowing saga of exploitation, 0:00:44.120 --> 0:00:47.560 shattered dreams, and resilience. You can find the two part 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:51.280 docuseries Dirty Rotten Scandals America's Next Top Model on E 0:00:51.440 --> 0:01:04.120 Network check your local TV provider schedule. Is Cycle eighteen, 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:08.720 the British Invasion season of America's Next Top Model. 0:01:08.840 --> 0:01:13.600 It's raining so hard, this is really windy, It's so so. 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:16.160 High up like I just We're on the deck of 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:20.520 the Macaw Tower, eleven hundred foot building. A and TM 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:23.960 Judge j Manuel just told the remaining five models of 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:24.920 the season. 0:01:24.840 --> 0:01:28.240 The Macaw Tower is the home of the tallest bungee 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:29.720 jump in the world. 0:01:30.440 --> 0:01:33.680 And that the top deck of this building, way out 0:01:33.720 --> 0:01:36.800 on the ledge seven hundred and sixty feet up, is 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:39.279 the location for today's photo shoot. 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:44.760 We turn up at this bloody tower and it is 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:46.680 raining hard. 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:50.920 Maybe even haling, who knows it was definitely hailing. That's 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:53.760 Sophie Sumner, who you heard in the tape psyching herself 0:01:53.840 --> 0:01:56.640 up to go out on that ledge, knowing full well 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:00.760 that one slippery wrong step combined with a horn its malfunction, 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:04.160 could send her flying into the pavement seven hundred and 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:08.000 fifty feet below. You met Sophie a few episodes ago. 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:10.800 She's the British model who said signing the A and 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:14.840 TM contract basically meant the show owned you. On her 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:18.360 season she walked a light pink Bob Very twenty twelve. 0:02:19.040 --> 0:02:21.320 It was a season she went on to win, but 0:02:21.440 --> 0:02:23.959 on this day she was ready to walk off set 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:25.000 and just go home. 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:28.680 We're in a brand new continent that most of us 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:30.760 have never been to and we go out on that 0:02:30.960 --> 0:02:32.320 stupid ledge or something. 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:34.280 I am terrified of. 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:38.720 Height Cycle eighteen pit models from the UK against models 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:42.160 from the US, and Sophie wasn't new to this. She'd 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:45.200 competed on Britain's Next Top Model before A and TM, 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:48.080 But the photoshoot she did on that show looked like 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:51.840 school picture Dad compared to this drake in simple, long 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:56.000 black dresses with exaggerated shoulder pads and hairstyles that were 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:58.560 straight out of the Capitol beauty salon. On Honger Games. 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:02.560 The models worth for represent the strength and power of Macau, 0:03:03.080 --> 0:03:06.120 but at this moment they were looking anything but strong. 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:10.600 I stepped out there and I have never to this 0:03:10.840 --> 0:03:14.880 day been that terrified on the side of a building, 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:18.640 like slipping all over the place with rain coming down 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:20.079 god knows how high up. 0:03:20.720 --> 0:03:23.920 Up to this point, Sophie had pretty much trusted the production. 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.720 Sure some of the photoshoots were over the top, but 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:29.679 she didn't think the show would ever put her in 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:34.480 harm's way. Now standing on that slippery seven hundred foot ledge, 0:03:35.280 --> 0:03:40.800 she wasn't so sure. According to Sophie, under normal circumstances 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:44.280 in these weather conditions. The skywalk they were posing on 0:03:44.400 --> 0:03:45.640 would be closed to the public. 0:03:47.520 --> 0:03:49.600 I don't know if it's before the photo shoot or after, 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.720 but it definitely had been closed to the public. It 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:58.640 was definitely unsafe. It was not okay. 0:03:58.880 --> 0:03:59.880 Ken Mook was there. 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:02.520 They were like, you know, we should really close it 0:04:02.600 --> 0:04:06.520 type thing, and I remember him or somehow I overheard 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:09.080 something that he was like, no, we're doing. 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:09.680 This no matter what. 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:12.080 And so I also went out there. 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:14.080 With the knowledge that this wasn't safe and we shouldn't 0:04:14.080 --> 0:04:15.960 be out there now. 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.800 I have to say this legally, I can't confirm if 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:21.599 Ken Max said that or not, but it is what 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:26.320 Sophie remembers. Okay, if you'll hear that until we turn around, 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:30.960 imagine being out on a ledge. You're terrified of heights. 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:35.000 You think the situation isn't safe, and in your mind, 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:37.839 the only thing keeping you from falling to your imminent 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.560 death is the harness you're clinging to. And then you 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:43.799 hear the photographer tell you to hold a pose. 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:45.200 Sorry someone without holding it. 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:52.039 I'm sorry, I'll get the harness a little bit further 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:55.400 away from my body. If you can stop holding the harness, 0:04:55.760 --> 0:04:57.880 you mean, the thing keeping her from falling off this 0:04:57.960 --> 0:05:01.599 slippery seven hundred and sixty foot leg. I was just shaking, crying. 0:05:01.920 --> 0:05:05.480 It's so awful, right because you actually have no choice. 0:05:05.600 --> 0:05:07.599 You're going home because you didn't see the photo shoot. 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:10.599 I feel like we've got good shots. 0:05:10.960 --> 0:05:14.200 Sophie didn't know it then, but the shaking, the crying, 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:16.960 the pure of terror and panic in her eyes was 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:20.400 all by design. You see heights. What's her biggest fear? 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:26.400 If someone had a particular fear, we would find out 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:27.280 in the costings. 0:05:27.960 --> 0:05:31.359 That's Andrew Patterson, the creative producer for A and TM 0:05:31.440 --> 0:05:35.960 cycles fifteen through twenty. He and his team came up 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:39.279 with every photoshoot the models did, including this one. He 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:41.839 was the reason they were up there struggling to look 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:45.479 strong and beautiful while being pelted with freezing rain. Andrew 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:48.480 had designed this photo shoot to get this very reaction 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:49.480 out of the models. 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:52.479 You go through the casting falls and you'd be like, okay, well, 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.440 this one's scared of heights, so maybe this cycle we 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:58.000 should do a photo shoot which is one hundred stories 0:05:58.040 --> 0:05:58.479 in the air. 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:01.200 He was there that day to see how his little 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:02.520 experiment unfolded. 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:06.479 It is pissing down with rain. It is so cold 0:06:06.520 --> 0:06:08.840 out there. I think there might have been slight icicles, 0:06:08.880 --> 0:06:11.320 like literally, like the girls are getting pelted by ice 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:14.080 and they're in tears and they're crying, and you know, 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.440 girls are going out there and they're slipping and they're falling. 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:20.960 Yeah, if the models wanted to blame anyone other than 0:06:21.000 --> 0:06:24.560 themselves were signing up for this. Andrew was the guy, 0:06:25.440 --> 0:06:27.279 but that didn't mean he didn't have a heart. 0:06:28.360 --> 0:06:30.440 I'm a nice guy, and you know, I'm trying to like, 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:32.240 you know, warm them up, and I'm like, you know, 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:35.000 consoling them, like, oh sweetheart, it's okay, you can do this. 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:36.680 Don't worry, don't worry, don't worry. 0:06:37.279 --> 0:06:41.080 But A and TM's executive producer Ken Mack wasn't having it. 0:06:41.400 --> 0:06:42.719 And I get a tap in the back of my 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:46.320 shoulder from Ken Mock say, Andrew, stop it, stop it. 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:48.760 We want to see these girls cry. This is going 0:06:48.839 --> 0:06:51.880 to make great television. Stop consoling them, play it out, 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:53.520 let them be as it is. 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:57.960 Maybe and a shoot. In the real world, it would 0:06:57.960 --> 0:07:01.719 be kind even expected for a creative producer to comfort 0:07:01.760 --> 0:07:06.040 the scared talent. But this wasn't the real world. This 0:07:06.320 --> 0:07:14.200 was reality TV. You want to beyond, Some want to 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:23.880 beyond some. Welcome to the Curse of America's Next Top Model. 0:07:24.240 --> 0:07:33.440 I'm Bridget Armstrong. Even though reality TV is supposed to 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:36.400 be real, we all know, at least these days, it's 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:39.760 really about telling a story, and A and TM was 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:45.280 no exception. The show presented itself as a look behind 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:47.800 the curtain, a window into what it took to be 0:07:47.840 --> 0:07:51.520 a high fashion model. But America's Next Top Model was 0:07:51.640 --> 0:07:55.680 always a reality TV show first and a modeling competition second. 0:07:56.480 --> 0:08:00.200 It prioritized drama and good characters over the best models, 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:05.040 and featured unrealistic and even dangerous photoshoots that no model 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:08.520 would ever do in the real industry, like dangling Sophie 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:10.960 off the side of a seven hundred foot building just 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:13.920 so we could see her freak out. They did that 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:18.280 to make great reality TV. So on this episode, we're 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:20.320 going to take a look at how the show achieved 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:26.000 that and what the cost was to the model. By 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:28.560 the time we get to the macau Tower photoshoot on 0:08:28.640 --> 0:08:32.199 cycle eighteen, A and TM had already built a reputation 0:08:32.320 --> 0:08:36.640 for wacky and extreme photoshoots, challenges, and runways. These are 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:40.079 the stunts that made A and TM iconic, and each 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:43.400 season they had to top the last. There are so 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.880 many outrageous photoshoots in A and TM history that I've 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:50.280 decided to make them into a little game. I'm calling it, 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:56.439 Did that really happened? My team and I came up 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:59.480 with the most ridiculous fictional runways and photoshoots we could 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:01.640 think of. I want you to guess which are the 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.720 ones we made up in which actually happened on A 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:09.240 and TM. Consider it a test of your top model knowledge. Okay, 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:15.280 let's start. Is it A the models pose inside a 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:18.280 meat locker lying on an ice block with nothing but 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:23.400 a bikini on. Or B the models are submerged in 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:26.840 a freezing cold pool for over forty five minutes, wearing 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:33.000 nothing but a thin gown. If you guess B, you 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:37.800 are correct. On cycle seven, the models have to pose 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:41.600 in water so cold one of the contestants, Carrie d English, 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:44.720 almost got hypothermia. Carry you're from Fargo. 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:48.480 Come on, this is real, real modeling, guys. 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:52.400 Being cold as there's a point where my body just 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.400 literally takes over, Like I feel like my skin and 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:57.599 everything that's just like pins and needles go. When the 0:09:57.640 --> 0:09:59.120 camera got on me, you know, I try to just 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:01.199 take those shivers away and not let her show my face. 0:10:02.240 --> 0:10:04.520 She was so cold knit, she was kind of convulsive. 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:10.880 As a model, you need to tell people when you've 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:13.520 passed your limit. It wasn't just that she was cold. 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:16.199 It wasn't just that her teeth were chattering. She had 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:17.880 reached the moment of hypo. 0:10:17.640 --> 0:10:22.800 Fermil Yep, you heard that right after Tyra encouraged Carrie 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:25.360 D to stick it out because she's some fargo. Jay 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.559 Manuel blamed Carrie D for not saying she was literally 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:32.320 freezing sooner. Okay, that one was a little too easy. 0:10:33.000 --> 0:10:37.079 Let's try another one, which is a real A and 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.200 TM photo shoot. Is it A the models are harnessed 0:10:40.240 --> 0:10:42.520 to the wing of a low flying plane and full 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:46.120 lamb with aviator jackets and six inch chos. Or B 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.520 the models have to strut down a moving conveyor belt 0:10:49.559 --> 0:10:52.200 in front of an audience while wearing full length gowns 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:57.640 and six inch chos. The answer is B. On cycle fifteen, 0:10:57.760 --> 0:10:59.679 the models had to walk a conveyor belt in the 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:03.400 second Street tunnel in La I've never felt more embarrassed 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:04.760 at one time in my life. 0:11:05.040 --> 0:11:07.559 I'd rather have natural labor again than do this. 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:10.760 I didn't come in here having a very good walk 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:15.120 in the first place, and I guess I started to 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:22.360 overthink it when come. 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:24.600 They are built when you go backwards, kind of bumpy, 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:27.480 so like I got on there and my shoes just 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:28.320 fulled right off. 0:11:28.760 --> 0:11:30.079 But I still was smiling though. 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:31.319 Yeah, I'm still fears. 0:11:31.400 --> 0:11:32.160 I'm still feared. 0:11:33.280 --> 0:11:36.280 When you heard the audience go whoa, That was their 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:39.440 reaction to one of the models actually tripping and falling 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:43.280 off the runway. Okay, let's change the rules a little 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:47.480 bit and play two truths and a lie. I'll give 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:50.719 you three scenarios, two of which actually happened on A 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:56.800 and T M. The other was made up. Option A 0:11:57.320 --> 0:12:00.120 the models do a photo shoot in Canada drenched in 0:12:00.240 --> 0:12:04.320 maple syrup while wearing maple league. B the models do 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.160 a photo shoot in Japan in a tank of coyfish 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:08.920 while wearing Ramen noodles. 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:09.880 Or C. 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:13.600 The models do a photoshoot in Greece posing on top 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.440 of a giant bowl of Greek salad, wearing nothing but 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:21.320 a bikini. Now, remember two of these really happened on 0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:27.160 A and TM. If you guessed A and C, you 0:12:27.280 --> 0:12:33.400 are correct. Andrew told me the maple syrup photoshoot was 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.120 a last minute idea. The girls were supposed to do 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:38.280 a photo shoot for former A and TM judge and 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:42.040 supermodel Twiggy's clothing brand. At the time, Twiggy was living 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:45.040 in Canada, but when she canceled the day before the shoot, 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:47.720 Andrew and his team had to come up with something quick. 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:53.000 We started at six am, like, we're going to have 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:55.600 the girls in hair and makeup. I'll go, okay, what's 0:12:55.640 --> 0:13:03.240 this country famous for? Maple syrup? Okay, all right, all right, okay, 0:13:03.559 --> 0:13:06.400 maple leaves a maple syrup, and so we were like okay. 0:13:06.480 --> 0:13:08.679 So literally from then we went outside and we grabbed 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:11.040 all these maple leaves and we had all these bikinis 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:16.440 and I started sewing maple leaves onto bikinis. 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.600 And the Greek salad photos. She well, that was Tyra's idea. 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:22.720 They're like, we're going to Greece and next cycle. I 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:25.840 was like, okay, that's pretty cool, and so we contacted 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.800 the tourism bureau and Greece and you know, typically that's 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:30.760 what would happen, is that one of the executives would 0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:33.520 do deals with the tourism bureau of each country or 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:36.000 an airline to bring us all out there. In the 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:39.040 meeting with Tyra, I'm like, what do you think of Greece? Tira, 0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:40.800 tell me the first thing that comes to your mind, 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:44.040 and she goes the Greek salad. And I was like, 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.240 oh my god, you don't think Greek mythology, you don't 0:13:47.280 --> 0:13:50.320 think Medusa, you don't think all of these other beautiful things. 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.280 You think of a Greek salad. And she goes, Yep, 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:54.839 I want to throw the girls into a ball of 0:13:54.920 --> 0:13:59.400 Greek salad. Andrew I was like, okay, well let me 0:13:59.720 --> 0:14:02.240 let me talk to the group Jews and Bureer, just 0:14:02.920 --> 0:14:04.880 see if I can win them over with this gride 0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:06.920 r D. But it was it was very top model, 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:08.920 you know what I mean? To thre the girls into 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.840 a ball of Greek salad? Which was that first photo 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:12.360 shoot in. 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:20.640 Creet Okay, last question for extra credit, choose all that apply. 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:24.120 Which of these runways did a and TM feature that 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:28.800 actually caused the models bodily harm? Is it a a 0:14:28.800 --> 0:14:31.560 floating runway where the models had to walk a rickety 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.320 runway that was floating in a pool while wearing six 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:38.240 inch heels Is it B a pendulum runway where the 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:41.120 models had to walk a runway while dodging a pendulum 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:44.880 swinging back and forth. Is it C a runway where 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:48.160 the models were placed inside a plastic bubble and told 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.440 to walk a twelve inch wide runway that was floating 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:55.120 over water. Or is it D a runway where the 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:58.000 contestants had to walk down the side of a building 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:04.800 in a harness that, my friends, was a trick question. 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:11.200 The answer is all for congratulations to our winners. As 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.200 a prize, you get to continue listening to this episode, 0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:17.120 and you know what, I'm such a benevolent host. 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:17.840 Some of the. 0:15:17.800 --> 0:15:24.600 Losers and these runways didn't just happen to be dangerous. 0:15:25.040 --> 0:15:28.400 Freelance reporter Kate Taylor wrote an excellent piece all about 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:31.600 Top Model for Business Insider. She's a consulting producer for 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:34.720 this podcast. She told me she talked to an A 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:38.080 and TM crew member who told her the floating runway 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:40.160 was rickety on purpose. 0:15:41.720 --> 0:15:45.080 I spoke with a producer actually who for the floating runways, 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:47.600 said that they had people go in and loosen the 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:51.240 runway even more to make it less safe because they're like, well, 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:53.640 it's going to be more interesting if someone falls. So 0:15:54.200 --> 0:15:57.080 that was something that throughout the process seemed to be 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:00.360 you want to make good television, and at times aimes, 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:04.880 the good television came at the expense of the well 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:05.840 being of contestants. 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:10.760 Eugena Washington, who competed on that season cycle seven, was 0:16:10.840 --> 0:16:13.160 one of the ones who fell on the runway. 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.080 As soon as I stepped on it with one foot, 0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:16.880 I split. 0:16:18.720 --> 0:16:22.200 I kept going after I fell off, I just keept going. 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:27.000 I'm freaking bleeding. Eugena still has the scar from that 0:16:27.320 --> 0:16:30.800 to this day. Here she is talking with consulting producer 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:32.560 Oliver Twigs on his YouTube channel. 0:16:33.160 --> 0:16:34.760 I don't know if you can see this scar, but 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:37.000 this scar right. 0:16:36.960 --> 0:16:40.760 This this Eugena sit up to show Oliver a nasty 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:46.240 scar on her knee. 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:48.800 Yes, with my real life body. 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:58.760 Okay, okay, because you're on this runway that's floating. And 0:16:58.840 --> 0:17:03.160 so they put on ful corsets, pulled them as tired 0:17:03.200 --> 0:17:06.040 as they could possibly pull them, so I could not breathe. 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:11.639 And then I had six inch stiletto hills, like needle 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:14.960 stiletto hills, So I'm walking on my fucking tippy toes. 0:17:15.359 --> 0:17:18.719 And then the shoes are a size too big, and 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:20.520 they said go out there. 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:21.680 And poles it bit. 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.160 You better smiles in front. 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:27.680 Of all these lights in the dark under these conditions. 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:30.720 So as a human being, you're like this, I can 0:17:30.960 --> 0:17:34.399 die because first I can't breathe, I can't walk. And 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:37.200 then the runways going like this on top of water, 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:39.640 and they're talking about get to the end and take 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:40.400 a good picture. 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.440 And the pendulum runway A and TM found mixer Jose 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.000 Torres was there that day and he remembers how it 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:47.640 all went. 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:53.119 Down that pendulum runway. The entire crew was on pins 0:17:53.160 --> 0:17:56.800 and needles waiting for somebody, you know, and we don't 0:17:56.840 --> 0:18:00.040 want somebody to get knocked off, but we're like it 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.480 was funny but not funny. And then the one girl 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:05.560 who got hit. I'm trying to remember who that was. 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:08.320 I can't remember. 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:09.840 Her name was Alexandra. 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:14.159 Oh yeah, she was so nice, but yeah, man, she 0:18:14.200 --> 0:18:16.800 got hit. And it like you could just play like 0:18:16.840 --> 0:18:20.119 that cartoon sound or somebody sort of like about to 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:22.560 teeter off the side and fall off, and you could 0:18:22.560 --> 0:18:25.320 just hear like the bongo sound or whatever the wh 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:28.360 whoa whoa woa end off she went and crashed into 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:31.600 some lights and she cut up her knee and we're like, 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:32.280 oh God, no. 0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:39.080 All of this, all of these wild photoshoots and challenges 0:18:39.560 --> 0:18:42.720 happened before the cycle eighteen Makal Tower photo shoot you 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:44.800 heard at the top of this episode, and by the 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:47.960 time that aired, A and TM was past its heyday 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.080 and struggling to draw an audience as large as previous seasons. 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:54.679 A modeling competition where ten to fourteen girls battle it 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:57.159 out to see who's the best, was no longer cutting it. 0:18:57.640 --> 0:19:00.560 Creative producer Andrew Patterson again was. 0:19:00.720 --> 0:19:04.359 Very adamant that after cycle thirteen, she never wanted to 0:19:04.400 --> 0:19:07.080 do a normal top model again, so she started with 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:10.520 short girls and then she went into high fashion and 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:12.360 then it progressed from there. 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:15.440 So when I started, there was always a theme. 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:19.560 There was the All Star season, the college season, the 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.840 British Invasion, and the seasons where they included guys. But 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:25.560 it wasn't just the season themes that had to up 0:19:25.560 --> 0:19:28.359 the ante. It was the challenges, the photoshoots and the 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:31.679 runways themselves, which was not an easy task. By the 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:33.760 time Andrew started in twenty fifteen. 0:19:33.800 --> 0:19:36.000 We were just trying to do things that hadn't been 0:19:36.000 --> 0:19:38.639 done before, especially when I joined, they had already done 0:19:38.640 --> 0:19:41.399 two hundred and fifty photo shoots on camera before, so 0:19:41.520 --> 0:19:43.480 trying to come up with creative that they had never 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:45.960 been seen was not easy. I'd sit there and I'd 0:19:45.960 --> 0:19:47.960 pitch things to Tire and she'd be like, oh no, honey, 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:49.840 we did that Citle two, Episode eight. I was like, 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:53.000 damn it, okay, And for each photo shoot I had 0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:55.280 to come up with fifteen different options. When you look 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:57.600 at that, that's one hundred to one hundred and eighty 0:19:57.600 --> 0:19:58.920 different options per cycle. 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:02.760 So would you say that you guys were sort of 0:20:02.880 --> 0:20:05.800 encouraged to do these things that could cross some that 0:20:05.880 --> 0:20:08.560 will say accident, so mis apps and far ofsome trip ups. 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:10.200 Were you encouraged to do that? 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:11.120 Yeah? 0:20:11.200 --> 0:20:16.840 We were encouraged to make things spicy, make things like 0:20:16.920 --> 0:20:20.240 they'd never been seen before. We thought it made good TV. 0:20:20.560 --> 0:20:22.960 And a lot of this came down to wanting the 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:25.920 audience to go, wow, did you see this? Like, oh 0:20:25.920 --> 0:20:27.560 my god, can you believe that they did this? Can 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:30.159 you believe that they did that? So we had to 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:32.399 come up with these elements of fear or these different 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:35.000 elements to see if the girls could have it or 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:37.639 be able to do the photo shoot, or go underwater 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:40.520 and hold their breath and be able to strike a pose, 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.439 or you know, can they smile while they have a 0:20:43.480 --> 0:20:46.399 silkworm on them? Or are they able to hold it 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:48.960 together when they're you know, two hundred stories in the 0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:50.760 air being thrown off the side of the building in 0:20:50.800 --> 0:20:51.440 Pelking Rain. 0:20:52.880 --> 0:20:56.080 Working models sometimes have to pose in a scary situation 0:20:56.280 --> 0:21:00.320 or with a wild animal. Cindy Crawford posed Knew with 0:21:00.359 --> 0:21:03.919 a Boa constrictor in the nineties. One time, Kate Upton 0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:07.400 polls in a bikini in Antarctica while standing on an iceberg. 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:11.840 But those kinds of photoshoots are rare. Andrew work as 0:21:11.880 --> 0:21:14.760 a fashion photographer in the real world before joining A 0:21:14.880 --> 0:21:19.200 and TM. He told me professional photoshoots are almost always 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:21.200 the opposite of what we thought on top. 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:25.280 Model, coming from the real world of advertising. I've shot 0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:29.520 campaigns for Louis Vuitton, I've shot campaigns for Chanel, Hugo Boss. 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:32.359 That's not how we do it. Top model is not 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:35.040 how we do it in the real world. And model's 0:21:35.080 --> 0:21:38.240 pictures are very intimate. It's between them and the photographer. 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:40.919 It's when you have a connection with a photographer and 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:45.040 you really connect with them that you actually get beautiful images, 0:21:45.680 --> 0:21:47.680 and not a lot of that goes on on Top Model. 0:21:47.680 --> 0:21:51.159 There's intimate moments where you get you know, these beautiful 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:54.440 you know, big eyes and you get your reactions. Those 0:21:54.560 --> 0:21:57.399 moments wouldn't work, you know, on America's Egg Top Model 0:21:57.400 --> 0:22:00.960 because they just changed the channel and it'd be very boring, 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:07.200 you know, crazy, wacky, quirky, unusual photoshoots. Was to keep 0:22:07.200 --> 0:22:09.879 the audience, and that was to keep ratings. That was 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:12.520 to keep you know, people wanting to watch the next 0:22:12.560 --> 0:22:16.000 episode or you know, tuning into the next cycle. I 0:22:16.000 --> 0:22:18.040 mean a lot of this stuff might not be realistic, 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:21.080 but it certainly added to the story in which we 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:23.919 were creating, and it added to the competitive element of 0:22:23.960 --> 0:22:25.320 a competition reality show. 0:22:26.080 --> 0:22:30.560 On cycle one, they did do semi realistic photoshoots and 0:22:30.640 --> 0:22:34.280 the result most bands consider Cycle two to be the 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:37.680 real start of America's next Top Model. I don't think 0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:40.720 A and TM would have lasted very long if it 0:22:40.760 --> 0:22:46.639 would have remained realistic. A TM took the premise of 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:49.960 modeling and made it entertaining, and there's nothing wrong about 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:53.480 that project. Runway takes the art of designing clothes and 0:22:53.600 --> 0:22:57.679 makes it competitive by presenting themed and timed challenges. The 0:22:57.760 --> 0:23:00.280 issue with A and TM is that models you use 0:23:00.280 --> 0:23:03.360 their faces and bodies to convey their talent, and that 0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:07.200 means putting their bodies on the line, which seems even 0:23:07.240 --> 0:23:10.439 more insidious when you consider they signed a contract that 0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:13.240 says if they get hurt while carrying out these production 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:17.119 fever dreams, A and TM wouldn't owe them anything, not 0:23:17.200 --> 0:23:19.560 even medical care once they left the show if they 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:25.639 got a long term injury. Many of the models signed 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:28.560 up to do these outrageous things because they thought it 0:23:28.600 --> 0:23:31.920 would help them in the real modeling world, but as 0:23:31.960 --> 0:23:35.159 we said over and over, for most of them, it didn't. 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:38.560 It actually made them a joke in the fashion industry. 0:23:39.640 --> 0:23:42.040 After the break, we'll take a look at the casting 0:23:42.080 --> 0:23:45.600 process and how from the very beginning A ANDTM was 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:54.840 thinking about the story, not the best models. There's a 0:23:54.920 --> 0:23:58.560 process for creating the characters and personalities we love and 0:23:58.640 --> 0:24:02.360 hate on reality TV. It starts in casting. 0:24:02.880 --> 0:24:06.320 The unscripted world. You're dealing with everyday people and they 0:24:06.359 --> 0:24:07.560 are not actors. 0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:11.879 That's Raphael Doorball. He was a casting producer for America's 0:24:11.880 --> 0:24:15.320 Next Top Model Cycles twenty one through twenty four. Those 0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:18.960 were the seasons that included guys and girls. Thousands of 0:24:19.000 --> 0:24:21.760 wanna be contestants sent in audition tapes and showed up 0:24:21.760 --> 0:24:24.720 to castings. Raphael was a part of the team who 0:24:24.760 --> 0:24:26.680 looked for people who would pop on screen. 0:24:27.320 --> 0:24:30.480 Some people are already amplified, they're pre turned. They come 0:24:30.520 --> 0:24:33.320 in the door swinging, you know, and we're just steering them. 0:24:33.960 --> 0:24:37.359 Like Brittany Brower from Cycle four. Brittany looked a lot 0:24:37.400 --> 0:24:40.439 like a young Janis Dickinson, something that probably made her 0:24:40.440 --> 0:24:44.560 stand out. Here's what she said happened during her casting process. 0:24:44.840 --> 0:24:47.199 I got called in a room probably with maybe like 0:24:47.280 --> 0:24:49.000 twenty to thirty other women. 0:24:49.359 --> 0:24:51.679 They had to stand in a big circle and go 0:24:51.760 --> 0:24:54.919 around the room and say who we were and a 0:24:54.920 --> 0:24:57.800 little bit about ourselves. And everyone was just kind of 0:24:57.840 --> 0:24:59.480 going around the circle, and you know. 0:24:59.440 --> 0:25:03.400 Like, Hi, I'm Diana, I'm from you know, the North Carolina. 0:25:03.800 --> 0:25:05.120 I like pink flowers. 0:25:05.200 --> 0:25:08.840 And then she gets around to me and I'm like, hello, 0:25:09.119 --> 0:25:12.160 I'm Riddy Alena Brower. I'm from Tallahassee, Florida. I'm twenty 0:25:12.200 --> 0:25:16.480 two years old. Go signoles, and I am so happy 0:25:16.520 --> 0:25:20.000 to be here. Michelle like stopped everybody. 0:25:21.400 --> 0:25:24.160 Michelle Mopp, the head casting director, and I. 0:25:24.119 --> 0:25:27.399 Had a green abercromy skirt on, and she goes, you 0:25:27.440 --> 0:25:29.480 see green skirt here, you see green skirts, call me 0:25:29.520 --> 0:25:30.040 green skirt. 0:25:30.359 --> 0:25:33.119 She's like, you guys, see green skirt here. She's like, 0:25:33.359 --> 0:25:34.159 that's the kind. 0:25:34.040 --> 0:25:36.399 Of energy we need from all of you. 0:25:37.200 --> 0:25:40.439 But not everyone comes in pre turned like Brittany. It 0:25:40.480 --> 0:25:43.399 was rare fail's job as a casting producer to identify 0:25:43.480 --> 0:25:45.160 that spark in a contestant. 0:25:45.560 --> 0:25:50.159 We are taking their personality and basically amplifying it. 0:25:50.720 --> 0:25:54.840 Sometimes potential contestants need the casting producers to put that 0:25:54.920 --> 0:25:55.920 battery in their back. 0:25:56.600 --> 0:25:59.800 So we're in the semi final stage and we're figuring out, okay, 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:03.640 he's going to make casting. This one guy, it came 0:26:03.680 --> 0:26:05.639 out to where the producers were and he said, I 0:26:05.680 --> 0:26:06.159 can't do this. 0:26:06.240 --> 0:26:08.080 I can't do this, and he's freaking out. I was like, 0:26:08.080 --> 0:26:09.200 what's the matter, what's it going on? 0:26:09.520 --> 0:26:11.440 He's like, I can't say this one and this one's 0:26:11.440 --> 0:26:13.320 a bit and she just wants phony and blah blah blah, 0:26:13.359 --> 0:26:14.560 and he had so much to say. 0:26:15.160 --> 0:26:18.040 The guy wanted out. He didn't think he could handle 0:26:18.080 --> 0:26:21.679 all the different personalities. But instead of seeing a quitter, 0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:24.560 Raphael saw the makings of great TV. 0:26:25.320 --> 0:26:27.480 I was like, oh god, you have strong feelings, okay, 0:26:28.359 --> 0:26:31.199 so oh right, well why are you telling me? And 0:26:31.240 --> 0:26:32.800 he's like, I just have events. I can't I don't 0:26:32.800 --> 0:26:34.000 even want to be out there with them. I don't 0:26:34.000 --> 0:26:37.359 want to and he's getting all agitated, and I was like, well, 0:26:38.000 --> 0:26:39.359 I don't think you should be telling me this. Why 0:26:39.400 --> 0:26:40.920 don't you go say that to the face. It seems 0:26:40.960 --> 0:26:42.440 like you you know, you gotta a lot to. 0:26:42.359 --> 0:26:46.080 Tell them, so tell them. So he did. 0:26:47.320 --> 0:26:49.280 He went out there and he had stuff to say, 0:26:49.880 --> 0:26:56.120 and he made the cast. So casting producers, we literally 0:26:56.200 --> 0:26:57.679 are creating people. 0:26:59.080 --> 0:27:01.359 Sarn Brown was still in high school when she was 0:27:01.400 --> 0:27:03.800 on cycle eleven of Top Model, and she looked like 0:27:03.880 --> 0:27:07.159 it on our season. She had this big, infectious smile 0:27:07.200 --> 0:27:10.400 that betrayed her age. She turned eighteen a month before 0:27:10.400 --> 0:27:12.919 she auditioned. She told me she was one of the 0:27:12.920 --> 0:27:16.760 ones who needed guidance, and that guidance started during the 0:27:16.760 --> 0:27:17.360 psyche bow. 0:27:18.800 --> 0:27:22.359 The psychologist proceders, so basically give us our character, which 0:27:22.400 --> 0:27:24.480 I didn't know at the time, but he started it 0:27:24.520 --> 0:27:27.159 off by saying like, wow, looked over all of your 0:27:27.160 --> 0:27:29.560 stuff and I can see that you're a very confident person. 0:27:30.400 --> 0:27:32.639 Now looking back, I was like, oh, he was giving 0:27:32.680 --> 0:27:35.880 me my character or like what they wanted to portray 0:27:36.000 --> 0:27:36.520 me at. 0:27:38.119 --> 0:27:40.040 And he also went with like, but I can see 0:27:40.080 --> 0:27:42.960 here also very reserved. In this situation. 0:27:43.080 --> 0:27:44.840 You want to make sure that you lean more to 0:27:44.920 --> 0:27:47.679 that confidence side, that you lead more into this. I 0:27:47.720 --> 0:27:50.159 thought that, like, oh, well, he's telling me about myself 0:27:50.160 --> 0:27:52.320 and affirming who I am and how was how kind? 0:27:52.520 --> 0:27:55.360 But yeah, no, and he was giving me my character. 0:27:56.440 --> 0:27:58.760 Then that was followed up by the producer who then 0:27:58.880 --> 0:28:01.960 reiterated that was like, I know you like to read, 0:28:02.119 --> 0:28:04.720 and I know you're an introvert, but in this situation 0:28:04.760 --> 0:28:06.679 we needed to be very, very extroverted. 0:28:09.920 --> 0:28:12.600 Sharan told me she struggled with self esteem when she 0:28:12.680 --> 0:28:16.080 was younger. Her mom instilled a sense of confidence in her, 0:28:16.440 --> 0:28:19.879 taught her how to say positive affirmations. Maybe that's what 0:28:19.960 --> 0:28:23.399 producers picked up on, a sense of outward confidence that 0:28:23.560 --> 0:28:27.199 was still developing on the inside. Rafael told me it 0:28:27.240 --> 0:28:30.119 was their job to really get to know potential castmates 0:28:30.440 --> 0:28:32.440 beyond what they presented on the surface. 0:28:33.400 --> 0:28:35.800 You can tell they've never had a day of therapy 0:28:35.840 --> 0:28:39.280 in their life because they want to suddenly tell me everything. 0:28:39.960 --> 0:28:46.080 We learn a lot about people in a very short 0:28:46.160 --> 0:28:46.920 period of time. 0:28:47.400 --> 0:28:50.960 It was a producer's job to make contestants feel comfortable 0:28:51.080 --> 0:28:52.240 enough to talk openly. 0:28:52.880 --> 0:28:56.640 You're building a relationship or rapport with these people. So yeah, 0:28:56.720 --> 0:28:59.080 a big part of being a casting producer is building 0:28:59.080 --> 0:28:59.920 trusts for sure. 0:29:01.200 --> 0:29:04.720 Tarn says she was an open book during her casting process. 0:29:05.240 --> 0:29:07.880 Once the producers had an idea of who she was, 0:29:08.360 --> 0:29:09.920 or at least who they wanted her to be on 0:29:09.960 --> 0:29:12.880 the show, they started coaching her on what to do 0:29:12.960 --> 0:29:15.320 and say. They came up with something that made her 0:29:15.400 --> 0:29:18.200 stand out in her audition where she met Tyra and 0:29:18.240 --> 0:29:18.720 the Jays. 0:29:19.640 --> 0:29:22.240 Our first meeting with the judges, they were asked me, Okay, 0:29:22.240 --> 0:29:23.480 so what are you gonna do? And I was like, 0:29:24.480 --> 0:29:27.000 I just gonna go and leave me and say you know, 0:29:27.120 --> 0:29:28.680 and they're like, no, you gotta come up with something. 0:29:28.800 --> 0:29:32.880 I was like, Okay, was like, we wanted this to 0:29:32.920 --> 0:29:35.880 be memorable. So that's where the whole like Lucky abdwere 0:29:36.040 --> 0:29:38.560 came from because that was kind of like we talked 0:29:38.600 --> 0:29:39.520 about that together. 0:29:39.880 --> 0:29:41.880 The competition has started and I'm ready for it. 0:29:42.200 --> 0:29:43.760 And when the competition is on, I got my game 0:29:43.800 --> 0:29:46.400 face on and I'm like, Hella, confidence. 0:29:46.200 --> 0:29:47.680 Are you convinced you've already won? 0:29:47.880 --> 0:29:50.040 I know it, Tira, Oh tell me why? 0:29:50.160 --> 0:29:52.560 Because I am America's next time model. 0:29:52.600 --> 0:29:54.760 You guys just don't know it yet. And what is 0:29:54.800 --> 0:29:58.480 that in your hand? I'm lucky underwa. 0:30:00.000 --> 0:30:02.800 The thing we've done so far, I've had them. 0:30:03.040 --> 0:30:05.360 I always look it, she says. When producers were going 0:30:05.360 --> 0:30:08.120 over her semi finals plan with her, she mentioned that 0:30:08.160 --> 0:30:11.000 she had a pair of underwear that said America's next 0:30:11.040 --> 0:30:14.680 top Model across the butt. The producers loved them and 0:30:14.720 --> 0:30:16.640 told her she should use that in front of the 0:30:16.720 --> 0:30:21.000 judging panel, and the little stunt worked. Sharon made it 0:30:21.040 --> 0:30:23.600 into the house, but once she was in the house, 0:30:23.960 --> 0:30:27.880 producers told her she still needed to present her confident facade. 0:30:28.200 --> 0:30:30.240 The camera makes you look smaller, so we need you 0:30:30.280 --> 0:30:32.640 to be figger with all of your actions. If there's 0:30:32.640 --> 0:30:34.920 anything going on, make sure you're the first one there. 0:30:35.360 --> 0:30:37.320 Tyra loved your like. They would keep telling me that 0:30:37.400 --> 0:30:40.680 Tyra loved your confidence. Tyra loves your confidence. Love and 0:30:40.800 --> 0:30:43.280 so just camping it up, and they did it in 0:30:43.320 --> 0:30:45.560 a way where you felt like you were getting a 0:30:45.600 --> 0:30:50.800 private meeting with producers at the time, realizing that I 0:30:50.880 --> 0:30:54.680 was being pushed or manipulated a coach that away, I 0:30:54.760 --> 0:30:57.360 just thought that it was like a big sister trying 0:30:57.360 --> 0:30:59.240 to put me on a game of how to you know, 0:30:59.280 --> 0:31:00.000 how to show up. 0:31:02.080 --> 0:31:06.000 Creating characters in reality TV isn't specific to A and TM. 0:31:06.360 --> 0:31:09.800 Audiences need characters to know who to identify with, who 0:31:09.840 --> 0:31:12.520 to root for, and who to root agains. Often the 0:31:12.600 --> 0:31:16.440 characters play into archetypes or stereotypes we already know that 0:31:16.560 --> 0:31:20.880 makes them memorable. Professor Amanda Kline teaches about reality television 0:31:20.920 --> 0:31:24.520 at East Carolina University. She says, creating character is what 0:31:24.640 --> 0:31:29.040 makes the story stick. This is sort of a fundamental 0:31:29.120 --> 0:31:29.720 human need. 0:31:30.000 --> 0:31:33.440 The way people make sense of the world is through categories, 0:31:33.960 --> 0:31:38.400 putting things into places that help them make sense. Why 0:31:38.440 --> 0:31:43.800 it's important on reality TV is they need to establish 0:31:43.960 --> 0:31:48.360 character and story right away, and so to do that, 0:31:48.400 --> 0:31:52.920 they need people to appear as certain character types. 0:31:53.600 --> 0:31:56.360 You've heard me refer to former contestants as the girl 0:31:56.440 --> 0:32:00.680 next door, the wild child, or the villain. This association 0:32:00.800 --> 0:32:05.480 on A and TM was by design. Here's A and 0:32:05.480 --> 0:32:08.480 TM casting producer Raphael dr ball. Again, this is. 0:32:08.480 --> 0:32:11.160 Certain formula that you that's a comfort, that's the reason 0:32:11.160 --> 0:32:14.760 why you tune in and get excited to watch. And 0:32:14.880 --> 0:32:17.280 I think the most exciting thing about Top Model was 0:32:18.160 --> 0:32:21.040 you always obviously had a different cast that was very 0:32:21.080 --> 0:32:23.600 different from the last, but you also kind of always 0:32:23.600 --> 0:32:26.080 got that same formula as well. So you know, you 0:32:26.120 --> 0:32:30.080 always got like the country girl guy, you know, who's 0:32:30.160 --> 0:32:33.920 in the middle of nowhere, who has no modeling experience whatsoever. 0:32:34.640 --> 0:32:37.280 Then you got like the hot jock that was thrown 0:32:37.320 --> 0:32:39.800 in there, who's super confident and whatever. 0:32:39.960 --> 0:32:41.480 And maybe the beauty queen. 0:32:41.960 --> 0:32:43.840 You know, you got the girl who's like did every 0:32:43.920 --> 0:32:46.560 pageant and you fil them all together and like like, 0:32:46.560 --> 0:32:48.600 how is this going to work? You know, that's what 0:32:48.640 --> 0:32:51.760 makes it interesting to watch and fun, and that's what 0:32:51.800 --> 0:32:52.440 we looked for. 0:32:53.160 --> 0:32:56.520 Remember Brittany from cycle four, the one Michelle Mott called 0:32:56.560 --> 0:33:00.200 Green Skirt Well on her season, she was loud, she 0:33:00.400 --> 0:33:03.240 liked to have fun, and she liked to drink, sometimes 0:33:03.240 --> 0:33:06.320 to the detriment of her competition performance. There was a 0:33:06.440 --> 0:33:09.440 challenge where the models had to interact with representatives from 0:33:09.440 --> 0:33:12.920 Cover Girl at a party. In the episode, Brittany seemed 0:33:12.960 --> 0:33:15.880 more interested in getting drunk than actually impressing the people 0:33:15.880 --> 0:33:18.960 from Cover Girl, or at least that's how the producers 0:33:18.960 --> 0:33:23.000 made it look. They were developing a character. Brittany was 0:33:23.040 --> 0:33:25.760 the party girl. There's people from magazines. 0:33:26.120 --> 0:33:29.160 I want to try one of those things El magazines 0:33:29.240 --> 0:33:29.960 comes holid in. 0:33:30.800 --> 0:33:34.280 Oh that's a drink I had. Then there was another 0:33:34.320 --> 0:33:37.040 time when the models went out and Brittany got wasted. 0:33:37.520 --> 0:33:41.320 She was dancing on the table. But Brittany wasn't the 0:33:41.320 --> 0:33:44.320 only one who got drunk that day. UV Gomez told 0:33:44.320 --> 0:33:46.400 me she did too, And. 0:33:46.400 --> 0:33:49.920 We were all at this cute little restaurant and I 0:33:50.360 --> 0:33:56.240 drank too much and didn't eat at all, and I was. 0:33:56.280 --> 0:33:58.400 Like, ooh, I'm not feeling good. 0:33:59.320 --> 0:34:02.440 And I think the producers saw that, and they pulled 0:34:02.440 --> 0:34:05.240 me to the side and they like snuffed me out 0:34:05.680 --> 0:34:08.399 because they already had the drunk girl. There couldn't be two, 0:34:09.200 --> 0:34:14.040 so they completely edited all of that out. I even 0:34:14.120 --> 0:34:16.799 think I might have gotten sick, but they were like 0:34:17.040 --> 0:34:22.040 protecting me, like guarded the bathroom, told me to turn 0:34:22.080 --> 0:34:26.280 my mic off. They just didn't want to film any 0:34:26.280 --> 0:34:29.640 of that because they had Brittany. 0:34:29.760 --> 0:34:32.840 Producers liked their characters to be neat. It helps the 0:34:32.880 --> 0:34:36.240 audience follow the storyline. We weren't watching A and TM 0:34:36.280 --> 0:34:39.160 because we wanted to see complicated characters wrestling with their 0:34:39.160 --> 0:34:41.759 inner natures. If we wanted that, we could have turned 0:34:41.800 --> 0:34:47.600 to HBO. I asked Brittany if that drunk party girl 0:34:47.719 --> 0:34:50.680 character followed her after the show, if it hurt her 0:34:50.760 --> 0:34:54.080 chances in the industry, and she said it didn't really 0:34:54.080 --> 0:34:58.640 affect her, But Sharon wasn't so lucky. In addition to 0:34:58.719 --> 0:35:02.440 meeting country girls, jocks, and party girls, A and TM 0:35:02.800 --> 0:35:07.359 needed villains. The characters we laugh act, not with the 0:35:07.400 --> 0:35:10.680 ones we love to hate. Sharan had been told to 0:35:10.719 --> 0:35:13.680 play up her confidence, but on screen it came across 0:35:13.719 --> 0:35:17.600 as annoying. Remember I told you Sharon's mom taught her 0:35:17.600 --> 0:35:21.000 to say affirmations. Sharon always wanted to be on A 0:35:21.120 --> 0:35:24.000 and TM, so at home, her mother would tell her 0:35:24.360 --> 0:35:27.560 you are America's next top model. My mom taught me 0:35:27.600 --> 0:35:32.120 a version of this, naming it and claiming it. Producers 0:35:32.120 --> 0:35:33.840 thought it would be a good idea to have Sharon 0:35:34.080 --> 0:35:38.560 repeat that mantra once she got into the house. It's 0:35:38.600 --> 0:35:40.759 one thing to have your mom tell you you're going 0:35:40.840 --> 0:35:43.799 to be America's next top Model. Baby, it's another thing 0:35:43.880 --> 0:35:46.640 to keep repeating it to everyone you meet. On the 0:35:46.680 --> 0:35:49.719 first episode of a show where everyone also thinks they're 0:35:49.760 --> 0:35:51.480 going to be America's next top model. 0:35:52.080 --> 0:35:54.040 I believe I am america Start top Model. 0:35:54.080 --> 0:35:56.480 I won't get this. I want this so bad, so. 0:35:56.480 --> 0:35:58.720 Let me start my introducing Myself's my name is Sharon, 0:35:59.160 --> 0:36:00.960 I am as next top Model. 0:36:01.200 --> 0:36:02.319 I really, my. 0:36:02.360 --> 0:36:05.320 Name is Sharon, and I am America's next top model. 0:36:05.480 --> 0:36:06.919 Oh christ and this stuff that I can I ask 0:36:06.920 --> 0:36:08.440 you the m because you have it all in the bags. 0:36:08.600 --> 0:36:11.720 Yes, very confident with myself, but I don't want anybody 0:36:11.760 --> 0:36:13.680 to read it as like being cocky or arrogant. 0:36:14.040 --> 0:36:17.279 But kaki and arrogant was exactly how she came off. 0:36:17.840 --> 0:36:21.040 Sharan gave the producers what they wanted, but the character 0:36:21.160 --> 0:36:23.240 they'd created for her wasn't likable. 0:36:23.600 --> 0:36:27.440 Oh Searon, she's always wild and over the top and 0:36:27.520 --> 0:36:28.080 get crazy. 0:36:28.320 --> 0:36:31.360 I find that kind of propulsive and most girls. 0:36:32.200 --> 0:36:35.800 Producers were setting Sharan up to be the season's first villain. 0:36:36.280 --> 0:36:39.280 They already laid the foundation of her being cocky and annoying. 0:36:39.880 --> 0:36:45.840 They drove it home by making her a bully. You 0:36:45.920 --> 0:36:49.040 already know reality TV producers often stir the pot to 0:36:49.040 --> 0:36:53.200 get drama going between cast members. Cycle eleven, the cycle 0:36:53.239 --> 0:36:57.360 Sharan was on, featured A and TM's first openly trans contestant. 0:36:57.560 --> 0:37:00.560 Her name is Isis. We're going to talk about the 0:37:00.560 --> 0:37:03.600 way A and TM handled gender identity later on in 0:37:03.600 --> 0:37:06.480 this season. For now, we're going to focus on the 0:37:06.520 --> 0:37:10.279 storyline between Isis and Sharon. And I'll say this, the 0:37:10.360 --> 0:37:13.160 situation we saw on the show did not make Sharan 0:37:13.280 --> 0:37:17.520 look good. Cycle eleven premiered in two thousand and eight. 0:37:17.920 --> 0:37:20.960 The way society talks about gender identity and trans people 0:37:21.000 --> 0:37:24.120 today still isn't great, but two thousand and eight might 0:37:24.120 --> 0:37:27.080 as well have been the stone age. On the first episode, 0:37:27.080 --> 0:37:30.120 when it was revealed that Isis is trans, some of 0:37:30.120 --> 0:37:32.920 the girls in the house were uncomfortable. Some of them 0:37:32.960 --> 0:37:36.680 were downright mean. A group of girls were portrayed as 0:37:36.719 --> 0:37:40.440 bullying Isis, and Sharon was in that group. The first 0:37:40.440 --> 0:37:43.400 photoshoot of the season was a voting shoot. Remember it 0:37:43.400 --> 0:37:45.840 was two thousand and eight. When it was their turn, 0:37:46.080 --> 0:37:48.600 each model had to look sexy at the ballot booth 0:37:48.719 --> 0:37:51.600 with the wind machine blowing in their face. Peek A 0:37:51.760 --> 0:37:54.840 and TM a group of models were staged in Isis's 0:37:54.920 --> 0:37:57.560 shoot behind the booth as if they were spying on her. 0:37:58.080 --> 0:38:02.480 Sharon was in that group of models and Jessa heads up, 0:38:02.600 --> 0:38:03.600 this isn't nice to hear. 0:38:04.120 --> 0:38:06.680 So obviously you have the street that is see true. 0:38:07.000 --> 0:38:09.520 You got the cameras, so you have no privacy and 0:38:09.680 --> 0:38:12.160 you guys are still spying on her. Remember you're in 0:38:12.160 --> 0:38:12.520 the shot. 0:38:12.760 --> 0:38:15.600 That's the funniest thing that's in my head, like trying 0:38:15.600 --> 0:38:17.759 to be said, reality. 0:38:17.400 --> 0:38:22.600 Is she's a man. That was Sharon who said reality 0:38:22.719 --> 0:38:26.280 is she's a man and a cut In confessional, Sharon 0:38:26.400 --> 0:38:29.080 and the other models made jokes about Isis. They caught 0:38:29.080 --> 0:38:31.719 her sweaty and said she looked Harry, but in the 0:38:31.760 --> 0:38:35.479 scene it's unclear who's saying what. Either way, it made 0:38:35.480 --> 0:38:38.440 Searan look like the ring leader. She came across as 0:38:38.480 --> 0:38:41.839 a mean bully. But according to Sharon, what we saw 0:38:41.880 --> 0:38:43.640 on the show isn't the full picture. 0:38:44.000 --> 0:38:46.000 Ices was doing her photo shoot and we were behind 0:38:46.040 --> 0:38:46.720 the photo booths. 0:38:47.360 --> 0:38:50.480 First of all, we were placed there, and so they 0:38:50.640 --> 0:38:54.640 hands picked all of ironically the black and brown girls 0:38:55.000 --> 0:38:58.600 to go on her photo shoot, and they placed us 0:38:58.680 --> 0:38:59.680 behind her. 0:38:59.719 --> 0:39:02.880 Word she was shooting, there was one white model. 0:39:03.360 --> 0:39:06.680 They did that to make that scene as if she 0:39:06.840 --> 0:39:09.640 was being taunted and bullied during her shoot. 0:39:09.920 --> 0:39:12.400 Sharon says they were standing there for a long time 0:39:12.560 --> 0:39:14.799 and they started to crack your mama jokes on each other, 0:39:15.040 --> 0:39:19.719 including isis. It was immature, for sure, but Charon swears 0:39:19.800 --> 0:39:21.720 they weren't just picking on isis. 0:39:22.560 --> 0:39:25.439 When you cut out one portion of it and only 0:39:25.480 --> 0:39:26.879 show another portion. 0:39:26.640 --> 0:39:30.000 Of it, it looks like something that is not. And 0:39:30.040 --> 0:39:32.440 now the whole world thinks that all of those girls, 0:39:32.440 --> 0:39:34.880 black and brown girls that were back there our caddy, 0:39:35.239 --> 0:39:38.279 our gossiping, our taunted, when it was actually the opposite. 0:39:38.880 --> 0:39:41.919 It didn't just make them look like bullies. It made 0:39:41.920 --> 0:39:45.440 them look like bigots, because that's the plot line A 0:39:45.560 --> 0:39:49.160 and TM wanted. Later in that same episode, we see 0:39:49.160 --> 0:39:53.960 Sharon's confessional and she appears to be ranting about isis isis. 0:39:53.640 --> 0:39:55.960 Is over the time, America's next top model is not 0:39:56.000 --> 0:39:56.919 going to be a drag queen. 0:39:57.360 --> 0:40:02.320 I'm sorry, it's not That's the line we all remember. 0:40:02.360 --> 0:40:06.200 Sharan By she told me that behind the scenes, producers 0:40:06.239 --> 0:40:08.719 asked her a question and told her to repeat it 0:40:08.800 --> 0:40:09.640 back to them. 0:40:10.000 --> 0:40:12.360 I was asked, what do you think about a drag 0:40:12.560 --> 0:40:14.640 queen being America's next top model. 0:40:15.320 --> 0:40:18.040 But when you're asked a question in a way, you're 0:40:18.120 --> 0:40:20.040 told you have to repeat the question back. 0:40:20.920 --> 0:40:24.520 That's pretty standard in these reality TV confessionals. If so, 0:40:24.640 --> 0:40:27.879 producers can cut their questions and the contestants' answers will 0:40:27.920 --> 0:40:32.120 still make sense. Sharon says she didn't voluntarily call Isis 0:40:32.120 --> 0:40:35.799 a drag queen. She was asked do you think America's 0:40:35.800 --> 0:40:38.719 next top model will be a drag queen? And then 0:40:38.840 --> 0:40:41.879 asked to repeat her answer in a neutral and sassy way. 0:40:42.200 --> 0:40:46.520 She says the producers chose her sassy response. Sharan told 0:40:46.520 --> 0:40:48.480 me that if she was asked to do this today, 0:40:48.760 --> 0:40:52.160 she would say no, She'd tell them Isis is a woman, 0:40:52.480 --> 0:40:55.480 not a drag queen. But this was filmed twenty years 0:40:55.520 --> 0:40:58.280 ago when Sharan was still in high school. She didn't 0:40:58.320 --> 0:40:59.960 have the understanding she has now. 0:41:00.440 --> 0:41:03.160 If I have the knowledge to correct them and correct 0:41:03.200 --> 0:41:05.759 how I referred to her in that moment, then I 0:41:05.840 --> 0:41:09.640 would have. But I did it. I was a young girl. 0:41:10.040 --> 0:41:12.719 I ain't know no better, and I was also kind 0:41:12.719 --> 0:41:15.799 of prompted to answer the question in such a way. 0:41:19.400 --> 0:41:22.560 This scene of Sharon bullying Isis put the nail in 0:41:22.560 --> 0:41:26.680 her coffin. She was already annoying and arrogant. Now she 0:41:26.800 --> 0:41:29.440 was being mean, and to top it all off, she 0:41:29.680 --> 0:41:31.640 bombed when it was her time in front of the camera. 0:41:32.040 --> 0:41:35.520 Hey Sean, it's looking a little convoluted. 0:41:38.719 --> 0:41:39.880 And in a way, it's not pretty. 0:41:40.800 --> 0:41:44.160 On that episode, during the elimination, when Tyra announced the 0:41:44.160 --> 0:41:46.880 girls who would go to the next round, Isis was 0:41:46.880 --> 0:41:50.720 called out second, which is pretty high praise. Sharon, however, 0:41:51.040 --> 0:41:53.839 was sent home packing. It was the same day as 0:41:53.880 --> 0:41:56.040 the high school graduation she'd missed to be on a 0:41:56.120 --> 0:42:00.319 and TM. Sharon was devastated, but she cheered herself up 0:42:00.840 --> 0:42:03.880 even though she went home early. She'd beaten out thousands 0:42:03.920 --> 0:42:06.719 of girls and made it on her favorite show. The 0:42:06.760 --> 0:42:09.880 real depression didn't kick in until weeks later, when she 0:42:09.920 --> 0:42:11.239 saw her ended on television. 0:42:11.440 --> 0:42:14.759 My family threw a watch party, and so we all 0:42:14.800 --> 0:42:18.080 got together, I like my uncle's house, and everybody was 0:42:18.120 --> 0:42:19.880 so excited, and we made a big event and a 0:42:19.880 --> 0:42:22.160 big party out of it. And I was excited to because 0:42:22.239 --> 0:42:24.600 never did across my mind that things would be, you know, 0:42:25.160 --> 0:42:26.080 edited in such a way. 0:42:26.120 --> 0:42:28.200 I didn't know that I was eliminated early on, and 0:42:28.600 --> 0:42:30.560 I know that my family and stuff didn't know that, 0:42:30.600 --> 0:42:32.160 so that was maybe a little nervous about that. 0:42:32.239 --> 0:42:35.799 But as everything started airing, initially they would shelby and 0:42:35.800 --> 0:42:37.160 we'd be like, yeah, that's. 0:42:38.719 --> 0:42:42.320 And then as they kept going on, sargiest, silent, silent, 0:42:42.880 --> 0:42:44.840 and I could feel the energy in the room. 0:42:45.160 --> 0:42:46.280 My heart dropped. 0:42:47.280 --> 0:42:49.759 Sharan found out with the rest of the world and 0:42:49.840 --> 0:42:53.000 a room filled with her family and friends that she 0:42:53.360 --> 0:42:55.600 was Cycle eleven's first villain. 0:42:57.160 --> 0:43:00.480 And it was a very kind of like ten situation 0:43:00.840 --> 0:43:02.440 since in the air, and it. 0:43:02.520 --> 0:43:07.400 Was very confusing. You're questioning reality or you're questioning what happened, 0:43:07.680 --> 0:43:11.320 and you're questioning your truth and what you knew also happened. 0:43:11.760 --> 0:43:14.120 And it was heartbreaking because it wasn't a true reflection 0:43:14.239 --> 0:43:15.600 of who I was. 0:43:16.760 --> 0:43:19.720 It didn't matter to A and TM producers who Charon 0:43:19.920 --> 0:43:24.239 really was, because Charon was a character in a story. 0:43:24.320 --> 0:43:27.160 It was a story of an over confident bully who 0:43:27.200 --> 0:43:29.480 gets what's coming to her when she flops in the 0:43:29.480 --> 0:43:32.720 first photo shoot and is eliminated. It was a tidy 0:43:32.800 --> 0:43:35.280 character arc that started the season off. 0:43:35.080 --> 0:43:35.720 With a bang. 0:43:36.360 --> 0:43:39.040 We have no way of knowing if Sharon was sent 0:43:39.080 --> 0:43:41.800 home that week because she actually had the worst photo, 0:43:42.480 --> 0:43:45.239 or if she was sent home because that made the 0:43:45.280 --> 0:43:49.200 best story. And that's because a lot of what we 0:43:49.280 --> 0:43:51.480 saw on A and TM was an illusion. 0:43:52.080 --> 0:43:54.759 I've heard producers talk where they were like, Yeah, this 0:43:54.800 --> 0:43:57.799 girl's boring, she's terrible TV. What do we want to do? 0:43:58.200 --> 0:44:00.800 Photo shoot? You know, every thing is still on the 0:44:00.880 --> 0:44:04.480 up and up. Maybe their photo that's chosen is not the. 0:44:04.440 --> 0:44:06.480 Best photo, is not their best photo. 0:44:09.560 --> 0:44:12.520 After the break, you'll hear how the producers created the 0:44:12.600 --> 0:44:25.120 version of reality we saw on the show. Reality competition 0:44:25.200 --> 0:44:28.400 shows are not always there. That was certainly true on 0:44:28.440 --> 0:44:31.880 A and TM. What made the show entertaining wasn't just 0:44:31.960 --> 0:44:35.319 the photo shoots. It was the drama, the personalities the 0:44:35.320 --> 0:44:39.120 models brought to the set. But the best models didn't 0:44:39.160 --> 0:44:43.080 always make the best reality TV. So producers had a 0:44:43.120 --> 0:44:46.040 way of getting rid of contestants who weren't entertaining enough. 0:44:46.560 --> 0:44:48.280 Here's hown mixer Jose Taurus. 0:44:48.640 --> 0:44:51.319 I've heard producers talk where they were like, Yeah, this 0:44:51.400 --> 0:44:54.360 girl's boring, she's terrible TV. What do we want to do? 0:44:54.760 --> 0:44:55.440 Photo shoot? 0:44:56.000 --> 0:44:57.920 You know, everything is still on the up and up. 0:44:58.520 --> 0:45:01.800 Maybe their photo that's chosen is not the best photo 0:45:02.440 --> 0:45:03.600 is not their best photo. 0:45:04.360 --> 0:45:07.239 That's why so many of y'all's fades were getting sent home. 0:45:07.280 --> 0:45:11.799 Early producers had the right to use creative license in 0:45:11.840 --> 0:45:15.560 tailor and competition how they fawt fit, meaning the most 0:45:15.600 --> 0:45:20.440 talented model didn't always win. Oftentimes the person with the 0:45:20.440 --> 0:45:25.960 best story or best TV personality did. When someone wasn't 0:45:25.960 --> 0:45:29.000 delivering what the producers needed to make good TV, or 0:45:29.040 --> 0:45:32.200 when the producers were done with their storyline, they would 0:45:32.239 --> 0:45:35.520 pick a model's worst photo and say it was their best. 0:45:36.480 --> 0:45:41.000 I asked ANTM creative producer Andrew Patterson about this. Was 0:45:41.040 --> 0:45:45.000 it always the best person winning? And was it always 0:45:45.000 --> 0:45:46.600 the worst person being sent home? 0:45:47.440 --> 0:45:49.360 Hena, Hena. 0:45:51.160 --> 0:45:55.240 Now, I'm not saying every elimination was predetermined for the plot. 0:45:55.800 --> 0:45:59.600 Producers couldn't manipulate everything. You still had to be a 0:45:59.680 --> 0:46:03.560 talent in order to progress in the competition. It's just 0:46:03.640 --> 0:46:07.719 that the talented models who also had interesting personalities or 0:46:07.760 --> 0:46:10.520 the best stories were usually the ones who made it 0:46:10.520 --> 0:46:12.879 to the finale. And when it was time to get 0:46:12.920 --> 0:46:16.520 rid of a lackluster contestant, producers had other ways of 0:46:16.560 --> 0:46:20.759 tipping the scales. I asked casting producer Raphael d'Orval how 0:46:20.800 --> 0:46:22.960 that worked. He didn't want to give me an example 0:46:23.000 --> 0:46:26.520 from A and Tom, so he used RuPaul's drag Race 0:46:26.600 --> 0:46:27.200 to explain. 0:46:28.000 --> 0:46:31.040 Let's say you're a contestant on Roopuol's drug Race, right 0:46:31.960 --> 0:46:36.280 and let's say, for what are reason you're not rising 0:46:36.280 --> 0:46:39.239 to the occasion on the show, and you're just not 0:46:39.360 --> 0:46:43.720 stepping up as an interesting personality on the show right now, 0:46:43.840 --> 0:46:47.279 if you're just falling flat and producers are freaking out, 0:46:47.280 --> 0:46:49.240 They're like, oh God, we gotta got. 0:46:49.120 --> 0:46:52.480 Read this person. They're bringing the whole show down now 0:46:53.000 --> 0:46:54.120 we know about this person. 0:46:54.520 --> 0:46:59.200 So when you're vetting these people who listen, let's just say, 0:46:59.239 --> 0:47:01.600 and there's always a season, whether it's somebody who doesn't 0:47:01.640 --> 0:47:02.320 know how to sew. 0:47:02.800 --> 0:47:06.000 He's referring to sewing challenges. Drag Race is also a 0:47:06.000 --> 0:47:11.080 competition reality show. Contestants are expected to perform, dance, sing, act, 0:47:11.280 --> 0:47:15.920 and occasionally sew their own costumes. Every contestant has their strengths, 0:47:16.000 --> 0:47:19.160 but inevitably there's always some queen on the show who 0:47:19.239 --> 0:47:20.800 doesn't even know how to thread a needle. 0:47:22.000 --> 0:47:24.040 So if you're going on the show and you don't 0:47:24.080 --> 0:47:26.880 know how to sew, it's going to be very difficult 0:47:26.880 --> 0:47:29.560 for you if there's a challenge that you have to 0:47:29.600 --> 0:47:32.919 sew not one, not two, but three different outfits, which 0:47:33.000 --> 0:47:37.480 has happened on the show. So let's just say the 0:47:37.560 --> 0:47:41.759 powers that bio like, Ooh, this girl's rough. She's killing us. 0:47:41.400 --> 0:47:44.400 This is not going to work. So I'm trying to 0:47:44.400 --> 0:47:47.759 get rid of Brittany. I guess our next challenge has 0:47:47.800 --> 0:47:52.200 to be a sewing challenge. Maybe we're on episode four, 0:47:52.960 --> 0:47:55.839 and maybe the big sewing challenge wasn't supposed to happen 0:47:55.920 --> 0:48:00.319 until episode six, was switching up the game, and now 0:48:00.320 --> 0:48:04.400 we're making the sewing challenge episode four, So there's always 0:48:04.440 --> 0:48:07.759 ways to kind of do what you need to do. 0:48:08.960 --> 0:48:11.920 For whatever reason, Rafael didn't want to spill the t 0:48:12.120 --> 0:48:15.520 on A and TM. Maybe he's a Tyra Banks loyalist. 0:48:15.920 --> 0:48:19.120 Maybe he's still under his NBA. But in case you're 0:48:19.120 --> 0:48:23.320 having trouble deciphering his drag Race riddle, Rafael is saying 0:48:23.760 --> 0:48:26.680 A and TM had a way of producing the results 0:48:26.800 --> 0:48:32.280 they wanted in the competition. Producers designed the photo shoots 0:48:32.280 --> 0:48:36.200 and runways. They also knew the contestants' weaknesses. So if 0:48:36.200 --> 0:48:38.799 there was a boring model who took decent pictures but 0:48:38.920 --> 0:48:43.120 had a horrible runway walk. Surprise, surprise, that runway date 0:48:43.200 --> 0:48:47.279 plan for week eight is happening today. The boring model 0:48:47.280 --> 0:48:49.720 would trip over her heels and get sent home promptly 0:48:49.760 --> 0:48:52.240 by the judges, and they didn't even have to select 0:48:52.239 --> 0:48:55.120 her worst photo to get rid of her. I'm not 0:48:55.200 --> 0:48:58.279 trying to make the producers sound like evil masterminds who 0:48:58.400 --> 0:49:01.840 wanted to torture and sabotage them models. They were doing 0:49:01.880 --> 0:49:05.719 their jobs, creating a show that was entertaining and memorable. 0:49:06.680 --> 0:49:09.640 I've said it before and I'll say it again. Watching 0:49:09.719 --> 0:49:13.879 twelve perfectly nice and talented models compete in intimate photoshoots 0:49:13.880 --> 0:49:17.919 and realistic runways would have been boring. It was fun 0:49:17.960 --> 0:49:21.840 to watch Brittany drink and dance on tables. It's riveting 0:49:21.880 --> 0:49:24.200 to see a bunch of scared models hanging off the 0:49:24.200 --> 0:49:27.239 side of a seven hundred foot building. It was satisfying 0:49:27.280 --> 0:49:32.160 to see Sharon get eliminated first. Before the contestants, it 0:49:32.200 --> 0:49:36.400 was a different story. They knew the show would be edited. However, 0:49:36.600 --> 0:49:38.759 most of them thought they would get a fair shake 0:49:38.800 --> 0:49:42.080 in the competition, but A and TM used them like 0:49:42.120 --> 0:49:45.840 pieces on a chessboard. There were heroes and villains, and 0:49:45.920 --> 0:49:48.600 the producers moved them around or knocked them off the 0:49:48.640 --> 0:49:53.880 board to fit the story they wanted to tell. Here's 0:49:53.880 --> 0:49:55.600 sound mixer Jose Torres. 0:49:56.480 --> 0:50:01.200 Top model. Honestly, a lot of those were just like 0:50:01.840 --> 0:50:04.480 cogs in the machine. You know, they got looked at 0:50:04.719 --> 0:50:09.640 as there were a commodity, there were a product. They 0:50:09.640 --> 0:50:11.520 were brought on to be part of a TV show. 0:50:11.920 --> 0:50:15.000 If they had a good experience, great, and if they didn't, 0:50:15.719 --> 0:50:19.000 that's a shame, you know, it's too bad. That was 0:50:19.040 --> 0:50:20.440 the mentality. 0:50:20.560 --> 0:50:23.160 Being a contestant on A and TM meant you might 0:50:23.200 --> 0:50:25.480 get dangled off the side of a building, thrown in 0:50:25.520 --> 0:50:27.880 a pool of water, or on top of a Greek salad. 0:50:28.400 --> 0:50:30.440 You might be made to look like a drunk or 0:50:30.480 --> 0:50:33.400 a villain. But it was supposed to all be worth 0:50:33.440 --> 0:50:39.759 it because even if you didn't win, you got a portfolio. 0:50:40.800 --> 0:50:44.400 Aspiring models often paid thousands of dollars to get professional 0:50:44.400 --> 0:50:48.359 photos they could send out to agents. Your portfolio could 0:50:48.440 --> 0:50:52.040 jump start your career. Here's Tyra talking to the contestants 0:50:52.040 --> 0:50:54.040 about the power of a good portfolio. 0:50:55.239 --> 0:50:58.239 I booked twenty five fashion shows in Paris off of one, two, 0:50:58.680 --> 0:51:02.439 three photo, So you have four seen how. 0:51:02.400 --> 0:51:02.880 A leg up? 0:51:03.080 --> 0:51:07.120 Okay, Tyra Poppins. But the point is, the promise of 0:51:07.160 --> 0:51:10.160 the portfolio is why a lot of these women allowed 0:51:10.160 --> 0:51:12.520 themselves to be dangled off the side of a building 0:51:12.800 --> 0:51:16.160 or covered in live bees, because if they could look 0:51:16.280 --> 0:51:19.839 fierce while they did it, that photo could be their 0:51:19.880 --> 0:51:23.759 golden ticket. But after they were eliminated, a lot of 0:51:23.800 --> 0:51:27.440 contestants found out their A and TM portfolio was a 0:51:27.440 --> 0:51:31.799 glorified coffee table book. They were a joke to modeling agencies. 0:51:32.640 --> 0:51:34.279 Here's Kenya Hill from cycle four. 0:51:34.960 --> 0:51:36.759 I already knew by the time it ended like this 0:51:36.800 --> 0:51:43.440 is a TV show, but I was expecting the modeling 0:51:43.480 --> 0:51:46.400 industry to embrace me with open arms because this is 0:51:46.440 --> 0:51:48.000 America's Next Top Model. 0:51:48.360 --> 0:51:51.080 After the show, Kenya moved to New York, ready to 0:51:51.120 --> 0:51:54.040 take on the industry A and TM photos in hand. 0:51:54.800 --> 0:51:56.719 But like a lot of the models I've spoken to, 0:51:57.120 --> 0:51:58.560 she was in for it rude awakening. 0:51:59.320 --> 0:52:02.680 I couldn't even used my portfolio from America's Next Top 0:52:02.680 --> 0:52:06.040 Model in my actual portfolio because the pictures from the 0:52:06.080 --> 0:52:10.040 show were so over the top, so overly edited, overly styled, 0:52:10.680 --> 0:52:15.000 overly made up, it was for TV. Real modeling portfolios 0:52:15.040 --> 0:52:19.800 didn't look like how our pictures looked. The retouching was insane. 0:52:20.760 --> 0:52:23.200 That is not how photos actually look in magazines. 0:52:24.160 --> 0:52:27.120 Kenya eventually became a working model, but she had to 0:52:27.160 --> 0:52:30.640 build her career herself. These days, she coaches new models 0:52:30.640 --> 0:52:33.000 who are trying to break into the industry. She says 0:52:33.000 --> 0:52:34.719 this her mission to give them more than A and 0:52:34.719 --> 0:52:42.640 TM gave her. Before Kenya was cast on ANTM, she'd 0:52:42.680 --> 0:52:45.440 been a fan, and she fully bought into the premise. 0:52:46.120 --> 0:52:48.880 She thought A and TM was really a competition to 0:52:49.000 --> 0:52:52.480 find and make the best model. As a teenager, I 0:52:52.520 --> 0:52:55.880 did too, I think we all did. But once Kenya 0:52:56.000 --> 0:52:59.000 left Top Model and launched her career, she realized the 0:52:59.040 --> 0:53:02.560 show wasn't it all like the real modeling industry. 0:53:03.600 --> 0:53:07.160 The average person watching the show would be, oh, yep, 0:53:07.200 --> 0:53:08.120 that's a photo. 0:53:07.800 --> 0:53:11.000 Shoot, that's the modeling industry, and so I think like 0:53:11.120 --> 0:53:15.879 the entire country took that as Yep, this is real. 0:53:16.120 --> 0:53:18.960 This is the modeling industry through and through, and it's 0:53:19.040 --> 0:53:20.440 just not true. 0:53:20.800 --> 0:53:23.319 It's just not the case. So much of it was 0:53:23.440 --> 0:53:26.640 just TV. It was pure entertainment. 0:53:27.080 --> 0:53:31.560 And something America found very entertaining were racist stereotypes and 0:53:31.680 --> 0:53:34.239 A and TM was among the best to ever do it. 0:53:35.120 --> 0:53:40.600 That's what we'll get into on the next episode. Thanks 0:53:40.640 --> 0:53:43.000 for listening to the Curse of America's Next Top Model. 0:53:43.520 --> 0:53:46.400 We really appreciate the support. We'd love for you to 0:53:46.640 --> 0:53:49.239 really show your support by subscribing to our show on 0:53:49.280 --> 0:53:52.200 Apple Podcasts and don't forget to leave us a five 0:53:52.239 --> 0:53:55.279 star rating and review. If you love the show, tell 0:53:55.280 --> 0:53:58.240 your group, chat, your co workers, your friends, your mama 0:53:58.400 --> 0:54:01.239 to check us out, and if you jo maybe keep 0:54:01.239 --> 0:54:04.480 that one to yourself. Thanks again to all of our listeners. 0:54:05.239 --> 0:54:07.640 The Curse of America's Next Top Model is a production 0:54:07.719 --> 0:54:11.040 of Glass Podcasts, a division of Glass Entertainment Group, in 0:54:11.080 --> 0:54:15.400 partnership with iHeart Podcasts. The show is executive produced by 0:54:15.480 --> 0:54:19.240 Nancy Glass, hosted and senior produced by me Bridget Armstrong. 0:54:19.840 --> 0:54:23.600 Our story editor is Monique Leboard, also produced by Ben 0:54:23.600 --> 0:54:29.200 Fetterman and Andrea Denning. Associate producers are Alisha Key, Kristin Melcurrie, 0:54:29.360 --> 0:54:33.920 and Curry Richmond. Consulting producers are Oliver TwixT and Kate Taylor. 0:54:34.400 --> 0:54:38.480 Our iHeart team is Ali Perry and Jessica Kriincheck. Audio 0:54:38.600 --> 0:54:41.520 editing and mixing by Andrew Callaway and Matt del Vecchio. 0:54:42.080 --> 0:54:44.600 The Curse of America's Next Top Model theme music was 0:54:44.600 --> 0:54:49.000 composed by Oliver Bains. Music library provided by mid Music. 0:54:49.880 --> 0:54:53.520 Special thanks to everyone we interviewed for this podcast, especially 0:54:53.520 --> 0:54:56.920 the models for sharing their stories. And For more podcasts 0:54:56.920 --> 0:55:01.319 from iHeart, visit the iHeartRadio app podcast or wherever you 0:55:01.360 --> 0:55:04.960 get your podcasts. Also check out the Glass podcast Instagram 0:55:05.480 --> 0:55:08.759 at Glass Podcasts for Curse of America's Next Top Model, 0:55:08.800 --> 0:55:10.520 behind the scenes content and more.