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Speaker 1: Dead and aspiring cannibal killer seek to spot a victim

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Speaker 1: at random to effect a thrill kill. That's a lot

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Speaker 1: for one sentence. Cannibalistic killer, victim at random thrill kill.

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Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is crime Stories, thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us here at Flux Nation and serious x

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Speaker 1: one eleven. How do all of those words fit into

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Speaker 1: one sentence? Well, you can ask residents a small city

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Speaker 1: and North Carolina called China Grove. But let's start where

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Speaker 1: every crime investigation starts with a nine one one call. Listen,

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Speaker 1: consider emergency Peaceful Lane in kind of groove? Was there

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Speaker 1: an address on Peaceful Layne or a ball crane Well Street?

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Speaker 1: And she'd believing? She flagged me down and said that

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Speaker 1: her boyfriend had cut her and her hands were ball

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Speaker 1: bloody and she needed to ride back to the circle. K.

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Speaker 1: I didn't do it, but I thought you guys who

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Speaker 1: might want to know what's going okay? And what was

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Speaker 1: her name? And your phone numbers? Sir? Great too? Is

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Speaker 1: she still there with you now? No? She she got

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Speaker 1: to her a need to get home and she kept walking.

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Speaker 1: But she's crying and her hands and bloody, said her,

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Speaker 1: said her. She said her boyfriend or cut her or

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Speaker 1: something that's not exactly what happened. Joining me. Chandler Indians

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Speaker 1: crime reporter Salisbury Post and you can find him at

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Speaker 1: the Salisbury Post dot com. Chandler is the nine on

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Speaker 1: one callers voice distorted in some way? Yes, it does.

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Speaker 1: It does appear that way. Was he afraid and using

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Speaker 1: a voice distorder? It sounds like, I mean, my son

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Speaker 1: has one and you talk into it. You can't even

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Speaker 1: tell it's him. Why would he distort his voice? Well,

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Speaker 1: any indication of that remains unclear at this time. Um

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Speaker 1: could just beat it. He was concerned for his identity

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Speaker 1: shake it could have been, could have been. But you

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Speaker 1: do agree with me, and it does sound distorted. I

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Speaker 1: certainly would. Yes, Okay, right there, I smell a rat,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know that yet. Let's listen to more

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Speaker 1: of the nine one one. Call them. Just as a

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Speaker 1: woman is bleeding, gushing blood walking down the side of

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Speaker 1: the road and she's afraid to get into a car. Wow,

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Speaker 1: I wonder why listen to the nine one one? Okay?

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Speaker 1: What was she wearing? I'm looking back because he's walking

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Speaker 1: up for Good road, Um, and he's still going out.

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Speaker 1: Where was she wearing flagging somebody up and down. It

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Speaker 1: looks like you go on a black shirt and um,

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Speaker 1: thanks hear from here? Really, and I'm terrible with that

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Speaker 1: guy that I should have looked at us again, I'm sorry.

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Speaker 1: Did she say where she lived or where her boyfriend was?

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Speaker 1: She did not. She just said she needed to go

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Speaker 1: back to Circle K to get her car. That's all

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Speaker 1: she said to me. Would you say that, I'm even

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Speaker 1: worried about it. That's all these offs, Colin, Huh would

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Speaker 1: you say the believing with Sria? It was yeah, her

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Speaker 1: ole hand with buddy. It looked like she just got

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Speaker 1: into somebody's cars, got in a white car and they're

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Speaker 1: going towards the end of Goodman Road, towards where Brown

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Speaker 1: Road is, and and she just got in a white

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Speaker 1: car going where going up Goodman poor Brown Road. Okay,

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Speaker 1: guys again, that voice is totally distorted. Let me go

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Speaker 1: to Chris mcdun and joining me door the Cold Case Foundation,

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Speaker 1: former homicide detective handled nearly five hundred homicide. I found

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Speaker 1: him on his YouTube channel, the Interview Room. He's at

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Speaker 1: Cold Case Foundation dot org. Chris, have you heard the

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Speaker 1: old phrase by Shakespeare? Write me? Thanks? Thou doth protest

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Speaker 1: too much? Right here in the nine one one call,

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Speaker 1: you've got the guy who's seems as if he's distorting

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Speaker 1: his voice also says, I didn't do it. I didn't

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Speaker 1: do it. I just you know, I see a woman

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Speaker 1: that's gushing blood. I thought a call when somebody calls

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Speaker 1: NIMA one says I didn't do it. Nobody asked that Raves.

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Speaker 1: That weighs another red flag at me. Totally agreed, Nancy.

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Speaker 1: I mean, t M I write too much information when

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Speaker 1: not even asked. And and he's also got her. He's

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Speaker 1: almost like distancing himself from this victim. You do have

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Speaker 1: to question, you know what, there's more behind the curtain here.

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Speaker 1: I think that nine one one call is just kind

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Speaker 1: of a tip of the iceberg, which you know, think

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Speaker 1: about just now listening to that the first time I've

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Speaker 1: heard it. Yeah, I mean, there's just so much right.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to discourage anyone from calling

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Speaker 1: nine one one, but when you're distorting your voice or

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Speaker 1: it sounds like he's distorting his voice, and he you know,

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Speaker 1: let's go to IRV Miller. He's the high profile criminal

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Speaker 1: defense attorney with the Miller firm and advisor to the

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Speaker 1: Good Wife and the Good Fight at CBS. Wow, you're busy,

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Speaker 1: irv IRV question. I mean, you've heard nine one calls

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Speaker 1: played over and over and over in courtrooms. I would

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Speaker 1: love to kick a case off with the nine one

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Speaker 1: one call, but we also analyze every word and maybe wrongfully. Well,

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Speaker 1: if I could put my old prosecutor's head on again

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Speaker 1: and get away from what I'm currently doing, what struck out,

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Speaker 1: what struck me in that call that raised my red

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Speaker 1: flag is that she said that her boyfriend did this

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Speaker 1: tour and that does not fit with the narrative of

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Speaker 1: the story. Interesting. See, I'm gonna pick a bone, got

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Speaker 1: a bone to pick with you on that one boyfriend

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Speaker 1: and hands gushing with blood. Those two really don't fit

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Speaker 1: together for me. But let's figure out where did this

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Speaker 1: happen and take a listen to Wbtle'll show you where

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Speaker 1: these crimes allegedly took place. Deputy say that a woman

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Speaker 1: told them she was attacked at at home on Peaceful

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Speaker 1: Lane in the town of China Grove. She says they

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Speaker 1: had met earlier in the day and they had exchanged numbers.

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Speaker 1: The woman claims that when they met up. He attacked

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Speaker 1: her with a knife. The woman told deputy she was

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Speaker 1: able to escape, and folks in the community called nine

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Speaker 1: one one when they saw her down the road after

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Speaker 1: she had been hurt. Deputy say he chose the woman

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Speaker 1: randomly and wanted to kill her for the thrill. Okay, Chandler,

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Speaker 1: Amy is joining me from the Salisbury Post. Chandler, Well, wait,

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Speaker 1: maybe I've got everything wrong. Tell me about China Grove,

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Speaker 1: North Carolina. So, Chinnie Grove is a This is a quiet,

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Speaker 1: quaint little town in Piedmont region of North Carolina. It's

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Speaker 1: proximity to Charlotte, DA the Triad region make it an

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Speaker 1: appealing place for will to live orside raise a family.

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Speaker 1: It's not very far. I mean, you can be in

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Speaker 1: either of those those big cities within about forty five minutes.

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Speaker 1: It's close to the interstate. But it's got a several

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Speaker 1: families that have lived there a long time, more than

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Speaker 1: established names that are there. A couple of middle schools,

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Speaker 1: a couple of elementary schools, a couple of high schools,

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Speaker 1: and it's certainly only up and up. Because of that

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Speaker 1: proximity to the interstate, there's been significant injection of well,

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Speaker 1: light industrial manufacturing distribution centers that are coming and more

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Speaker 1: and more housing to come, and you know, those workers

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Speaker 1: got to list somewhere, and so what had largely been

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Speaker 1: a bedroom community is emerging a little bit more on

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Speaker 1: the scene. It's got a got a brewery that opened

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Speaker 1: up recently. There's a little bit of a downtown area

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Speaker 1: that's kind of re emerging. But it is still a

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Speaker 1: pretty quiet town. I do cover China growth what's on

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Speaker 1: one of my beats, and oftentimes when I'm driving back

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Speaker 1: after let's say a town council meeting, the only store

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Speaker 1: that's still opened after nine o'clock is a twenty four

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Speaker 1: hour laundromat. So it is a it is a quiet town.

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Speaker 1: It reminds me of where I grew up outside the

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Speaker 1: city limits of making a good ways outside an unincorporated

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Speaker 1: bib County. The only thing near us, and it was high,

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Speaker 1: was the corner store, and my mom put a boycott

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Speaker 1: on that when they started selling beer. So we really

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Speaker 1: had nowhere to go. But long story short is I

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Speaker 1: understand the last since this was about in twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: and there were less than five thousand people living there.

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Speaker 1: That's that's correct. About about forty five hundred something in

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Speaker 1: that ballpark, and and a lot of that is it's

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Speaker 1: not very denially populated or concentrated in any one area.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of kind of spread out. People have, you know,

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Speaker 1: that their own homes that are you know kind of

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Speaker 1: it's it's a pre rural area. It's North Carolina. Is

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Speaker 1: there a big lake there? There certainly is Lake Courrier,

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Speaker 1: And there's a wilderness park that's rounds that great hiking trails.

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Speaker 1: It's become a little bit of a destination for hobbyists

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Speaker 1: like data, fish, canoe, or just spend time outside. The

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Speaker 1: reason I'm getting to all of this, Chris mcdonnaugh is

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Speaker 1: because when you have a woman running down the side

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Speaker 1: of the road and I say road not straight because

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Speaker 1: it seems a very rural not like a tree line

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Speaker 1: street with houses in a subdivision, bleeding profusely from her

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Speaker 1: hands out really in the middle of nowhere. That is very,

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Speaker 1: very odd as it relates to statistics. Yes, in fact,

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Speaker 1: it's right out of the scene of a horror movie,

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Speaker 1: right where you envision this poor victim running down the

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Speaker 1: street holding her hand, and you now high in the

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Speaker 1: nine one one call Nancy to the red flag that

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Speaker 1: you know we're both thinking about here and others on

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Speaker 1: this panel. It's like, what's going on here? There's there's

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Speaker 1: much more to this story right now, where even the

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Speaker 1: nine one one caller is just kind of abandoning her

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Speaker 1: in the middle of the road to continue on this

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Speaker 1: journey down this dark street bleeding. But you know, I

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Speaker 1: got the sense she would not get into the car

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Speaker 1: with him. That does feel that I got. But hey, Jack,

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Speaker 1: let's hear WBT one more time. I'll show you where

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Speaker 1: these crimes allegedly took place. Deputy say that a woman

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Speaker 1: told them she was attacked that at home on Peaceful

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Speaker 1: Lane in the town of China Grove. She says they

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Speaker 1: had met earlier in the day and they had exchanged numbers.

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Speaker 1: The woman claims that when they met up, he'd attacked

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Speaker 1: her with a knife. The woman told deputy she was

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Speaker 1: able to escape, and folks in the community called nine

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Speaker 1: one one when they saw her down the road after

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Speaker 1: she had been hurt. Deputy say he chose the woman

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Speaker 1: randomly and wanted to kill her for the thrill. Little

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Speaker 1: did she know that police now believe she was intended

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Speaker 1: to be a victim of cannibalism. Take a listen to

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Speaker 1: more from Nicki Houser. This is where they met and

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Speaker 1: it's just about five minutes that way. That's the neighborhood.

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Speaker 1: Police say. This knife attack allegedly happened, but it's what

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Speaker 1: this man didn't do that might be the most disturbing part.

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Speaker 1: It could give you chills down your spine. It's unbelievable

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Speaker 1: to hear the gruesome plans. I think everybody shocked. The

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Speaker 1: Roman County Sheriff's Office says after meeting a woman and

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Speaker 1: exchanging phone numbers out of nearby circle K Wednesday, he

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Speaker 1: invited her here to his home on Peaceful Lane in

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Speaker 1: China Grove. Back to Chandler Indian, his crime reporter for

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Speaker 1: the Salisbury Post. Again, thank you Chandler for joining us.

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Speaker 1: So they met originally at a circle K. Yes, they

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Speaker 1: met at a gas station earlier in the day. Okay,

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Speaker 1: then wait a minute, Chandler. I know you're the expert

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Speaker 1: when it comes to China grow, but to call a

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Speaker 1: circle K a gas station is like calling Tiffany's department store. Okay,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute. When you go in a circle K,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if you're a circle K is like this.

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Speaker 1: But every circle K I've ever been in, I want

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Speaker 1: to go there if I'm on a long trip. They

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Speaker 1: have coffee, they have food, I mean food that you

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Speaker 1: would eat, not weird food and a plastic rap that's

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Speaker 1: been there like a month. They have real food. It

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Speaker 1: smells good in there. Shop for things in there. What

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Speaker 1: kind of circle k are we talking about. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's certainly not not a particularly lavish gas station, but yes,

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Speaker 1: you can get something that I would actually I would

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Speaker 1: probably eat in there myself. You know, they have a

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Speaker 1: little grill. It's but yeah, I think I do believe

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Speaker 1: that it's still appropriate to refer to it as a

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Speaker 1: gas station. It's not like a travel stop. I would

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Speaker 1: never have thought of eating the food at a truck

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Speaker 1: stop like a gas station until my son I was

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Speaker 1: taking them to see something. Oh we're going to Okay

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Speaker 1: Finoki the swamp, good times. And I got gas and

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Speaker 1: I went in. John Dave was already eating something. He

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Speaker 1: had taken it out of a container I don't eat.

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Speaker 1: That turned out to be pretty good. We all ate it.

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Speaker 1: But um, long story short. They met at a circle K,

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Speaker 1: exchanged numbers. Chandler Indians. Do I have that part right, yes,

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Speaker 1: Now the three and why they exchanged those numbers was

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Speaker 1: unclear other than just perhaps to potentially meet meat back

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Speaker 1: up again later. So they meet at a circle K.

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Speaker 1: They exchanged numbers obviously to get together for a date.

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Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace. You know doctor Michelle Joyous with

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Speaker 1: me for When is It? Clinical and academic psychiatrist, author

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Speaker 1: of and illustrated history of the insanity defense, and you

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Speaker 1: can find her at West Philly Morbid Art. Doctor joy

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us. So many questions to you.

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Speaker 1: But first of all, many people believe just assume that

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Speaker 1: cannibalism means insanity. That's not true, not at all, not

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Speaker 1: at all. I wonder if that's what the dis alleged

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Speaker 1: the perpetrator thinks as well. But um, you know, depending

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Speaker 1: on where the crime and seeking place and where it's

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Speaker 1: being chid, there's different definitions of you know, what would

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Speaker 1: meet the standard for a not guilty by reason of

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Speaker 1: insanity defense for talking in the legal sense. But basically,

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Speaker 1: it's not just bizarre behavior. It's not behavior that we

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Speaker 1: wouldn't understand. It's not behavior that we don't do. It

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Speaker 1: would be something related to a mental illness, not just

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Speaker 1: being weird or a criminal or you know, wanting to

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Speaker 1: eat people, I suppose, but also that they didn't know

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Speaker 1: that it was wrong. In most jurisdictions, you know, there's

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Speaker 1: kind of nuances to that, but something so striking might

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Speaker 1: be shocking to you know, our sensibilities. But it definitely

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Speaker 1: doesn't mean in seeing on its speed. Guys, we'll never

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Speaker 1: forget Hannibal Elector in Silence of the Lambs. But the

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Speaker 1: reality is that Hannibal Elector was based on a real person. Actually,

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Speaker 1: that is where the inspiration came from to create the

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Speaker 1: character that ended up being the movie, the hit movie

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Speaker 1: with Jodie Foster and of course with Hopkins playing Hannibal Elector.

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Speaker 1: That is the only familiarity many people have with even

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Speaker 1: the suggestion of cannibalism. But as you see in the

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Speaker 1: movie Elector, it's as smart as one in the room.

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Speaker 1: He's not insane. He knew exactly what he was doing,

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Speaker 1: as he would select his victims, murder them and eat them.

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Speaker 1: It's like a spider with a fly. So to say

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Speaker 1: that it is an outright insanity, it's absolutely not true.

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Speaker 1: Doctor prea Bandager joining US Board Certified Forensic pathologist at anchor,

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Speaker 1: forensic pathology consultant, and she's a system medical examiner, Doctor Prea.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us, Doctor Prea. The danger

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Speaker 1: of slicing someone's hands is it's incredibly close to the

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Speaker 1: veins on your wrist, which that's how you bleed out

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Speaker 1: if you cut those veins. So you know, the big

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Speaker 1: thing that I think about is she's trying to protect herself, right,

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Speaker 1: So oftentimes injuries to the hands are defensive. So I

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Speaker 1: hate to say it, luckily with only her hands that

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Speaker 1: were injured. Yeah, you know, you're right, but she's gushing blood.

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Speaker 1: She's bleeding intensely, Doctor Pria Banerjee. How would that have happened?

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Speaker 1: I mean, when I cut my hand, you know in

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Speaker 1: the kitchen, I don't bleed intensely. She is, no, I mean,

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Speaker 1: depending on where on her hand she's hit, you could

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Speaker 1: hit a major blood vessel or vessel's artery vein. And

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Speaker 1: you know, during the stress, her heart's pumping fast and

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Speaker 1: you know you're losing tons of blood. Obviously she's freaking

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Speaker 1: out running down the road, you know, in total distress.

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Speaker 1: Guys with me channel or Indians criming for her Salisbury Post.

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Speaker 1: So what we learn immediately is the woman describing gruesome

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Speaker 1: plans that the attacker had for her. Guys, take a

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Speaker 1: listen to WSOC tonight. We are hearing the nine one

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Speaker 1: one calls that were made after a Rowan County deputy

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Speaker 1: says a woman escaped from a man who was trying

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Speaker 1: to kill her. She bobbed down from covered ballbody and

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Speaker 1: she needed a rod. The woman had just escaped when

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Speaker 1: China grow The man wanted to quote kill her for

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Speaker 1: the thrill of it. Details in this case are very disturbing.

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Speaker 1: It happened right along this roadway, which is actually called

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Speaker 1: Peaceful Lane, but it was anything but peaceful. On Wednesday,

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Speaker 1: I looked her out of my review mirror and I

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Speaker 1: was she doesn't look good. This woman was driving down

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Speaker 1: Peaceful Lane on Wednesday when she says she saw a

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Speaker 1: young woman walking quickly with bloody hands. I said, are

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Speaker 1: you okay? And she was shaking and crying um and

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Speaker 1: then she was like a guy in the house down

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Speaker 1: there just stabbed me. I want to go back to

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Speaker 1: doctor Michelle Joy, clinical forensic academic psychiatrists and author. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Joy just meeting someone at a circle kay or anywhere

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Speaker 1: in the grocery store you need to know a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about them before you meet them in person,

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Speaker 1: doctor Joy to make a safe recommendation to friends or family.

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Speaker 1: That's definitely what I would be saying for sure. I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's just something so like when I hear and read

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Speaker 1: about this case, you know, peaceful Lane, this quaint little

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Speaker 1: place that the other expert, the crime reporter was describing,

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Speaker 1: meeting at a circle k, and then that juxtapose with

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Speaker 1: the intensity of what this person is claiming to want

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Speaker 1: to do or allegedly had had said. I mean, this

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Speaker 1: whole thing is just a little quaint meeting at a

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Speaker 1: circle quick turns into this bombardment of blood and thrill,

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Speaker 1: kill and cannibalism. And it's just striking the juxtaposition between

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Speaker 1: those two things. I know, in the movies they call

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Speaker 1: it the meet cute. You know, if you look back

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Speaker 1: at all the rom coms, there's always this cute meeting setup,

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Speaker 1: like they meet over the gas pop at the circle k,

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Speaker 1: or over the donuts or the coffee machine that Chandler

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Speaker 1: Indians was describing, and then somehow the word cannibal gets

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Speaker 1: into it. Guys, take a listen to Hannah gets w

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Speaker 1: sc very clear to them what would have happened had

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Speaker 1: she not escaped. He wanted to kill her for thrill.

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Speaker 1: In described gory details of wanting to mutilate her body

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Speaker 1: and leave it for passing cars to see. He also

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Speaker 1: mentioned cannibalism and a desire to kill other people. I

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Speaker 1: was in shock, you know, I see him on the road,

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Speaker 1: driving down the road here and stuff. But you know,

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Speaker 1: you'll just wave and he'll wave back at you. People

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Speaker 1: who have lived by his parents for twenty years, tell

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Speaker 1: me this is not something you expect from a quiet

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Speaker 1: neighborhood filled with young kids. Okay to Chandler Indians joining

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Speaker 1: us in the Salisbury Post, who's intimately familiar with China

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Speaker 1: growth and in fact this very street. So wait a minute.

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Speaker 1: She the victim, who we are not naming, what leaves

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Speaker 1: the police back to the home where she was attacked. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's correct. She told them they where they could find them,

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Speaker 1: and they go to that home and do they find

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Speaker 1: the purp? They do? They found the man and they

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Speaker 1: took him into custody. Who is this guy? Well, he's

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Speaker 1: he's locally went to school right around the corner. And

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Speaker 1: you know it wasn't too old twenty four year old

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Speaker 1: hunter Chase Nance. You're making him sound like I don't know,

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Speaker 1: goober and uh mayberry hey, and just worst of the

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Speaker 1: gas station right around the corner. He's an aspiring hannibal.

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Speaker 1: What more can you tell me what happened that night?

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Speaker 1: So the details of surface during the interview with detectives

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Speaker 1: or where things really took the sinister turn. It was

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Speaker 1: it was then when he started to as if they

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Speaker 1: weren't already nefarious enough, his intentions you revealed themselves, and

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Speaker 1: his interactions with with them. But it was when he

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Speaker 1: actually got downtown, so to speak, that he started unveiling

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Speaker 1: his larger plan. That's why we have the Fifth Amendment

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Speaker 1: or of Miller written. You agree with that right to

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Speaker 1: remain silent? Oh? Absolutely? I mean because you, as a

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Speaker 1: veteran criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor, could have bent this

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Speaker 1: case and twisted it and molded it into whatever you

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Speaker 1: wanted it to be. If he Nance had not started talking,

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Speaker 1: it could have been a domestic they got out of

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Speaker 1: control and blah blah blah, spin it out. But he

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Speaker 1: opened his mouth and he stepped in. Let me just

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Speaker 1: say poop. I'll just put it like that. If I

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Speaker 1: may actually add something do yes. Originally, he was only

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Speaker 1: charged with false imprisonment and assault with a deadly weapon.

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Speaker 1: The attempted murder charge has not come until a little

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Speaker 1: bit later, whenever this new information that he volunteered was revealed.

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Speaker 1: Until he opened his pie hole. Wow, yeah, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to jump and Nancy, this is doctor Banderge. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've got with so many domestic cases that end up

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Speaker 1: horribly and I'm glad this isn't one of them. But really,

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Speaker 1: I've practiced in large metropolitan areas Philly, Baltimore, now in

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Speaker 1: Rhode Island, and I know also practice in Vegas. What

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Speaker 1: the heck like this is some quaint little town. You know,

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Speaker 1: It's totally opposite of what you think in terms of

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Speaker 1: just horrible crimes, right, Like I would never talk to

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Speaker 1: someone in a large city at a gas station, but

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Speaker 1: it seems like so normal in a small town. And

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Speaker 1: look what it leads to it. It's horrifying. And you

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Speaker 1: hear what Chandler, Indians is telling us with the Salisbury Post. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was a young man, went to school riding around

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Speaker 1: the corner. Well, yeah, he was to chop people up

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Speaker 1: and eat them Indians, He's not just some guy. They

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Speaker 1: go to school around the corner. H l L n oh,

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Speaker 1: let's listen to more. WSC investigators say that guy was

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Speaker 1: twenty four year old Hunter Nance, who lives nearby. Well.

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Speaker 1: Trying to help the young woman, she says, a car

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Speaker 1: pulled up behind them from the direction of Nance's house

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Speaker 1: on the dead end street. We saw a vehicle pulling

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Speaker 1: up and it stopped and we saw the headlights, and

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Speaker 1: she said, I think that's him. So I said to

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Speaker 1: get in the car. Just get in the car. She says.

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Speaker 1: She drove the young woman to a circle K where

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Speaker 1: they saw police in the parking lot, and that's when

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Speaker 1: disturbing details started to emerge. Okay, I was dragging ingian along,

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Speaker 1: all right, Chandler, what does she say happen to her

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Speaker 1: that night? Tell me that first, you know it better

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Speaker 1: than anybody, and then tell me what this guy, twenty

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Speaker 1: four year old Nance, had to say when he got

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Speaker 1: as you said, down down. First, tell me her story. Well, yes,

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Speaker 1: her story was that the seemingly innocuous meet up it's

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Speaker 1: called a mat Yes, precisely. Um, it only turned so

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Speaker 1: sinister when they got to his For her account, when

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Speaker 1: they got to his home. Wait, does he live at

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Speaker 1: home with his parents? Yes, and they had no idea

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Speaker 1: he was planning to butcher a woman downstairs in the

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Speaker 1: basement or his bedroom. Well, and as he would reveal

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Speaker 1: a little bit later that the hads and plans for

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Speaker 1: them too. What what what? What what? His parents were

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Speaker 1: also on a list of folks that he allegedly intended

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Speaker 1: to kill after after he was done with this first one.

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Speaker 1: You know, I knew you were smart the first time

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Speaker 1: I heard your voice, chanmel Indians. I didn't know that.

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Speaker 1: I thought he just wanted to chop this woman up

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Speaker 1: and eat her for dinner. I had no idea. He

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Speaker 1: had plans for his mother and father. He also had

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Speaker 1: plans for some kind of the typical fashion, those those

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Speaker 1: folks that had had bullied him and given him a

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Speaker 1: hard time in high school. So it wasn't just the

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Speaker 1: parents either. He had a little bit of a list.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to call it a manifesto like we

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Speaker 1: hear sometimes lopped out there, but there were there was

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Speaker 1: a series of people. Sounds more like a buffet. He

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Speaker 1: got the girl yet, I'll call her girlfriend, but she

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Speaker 1: was not. They had just met at random. Than his

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Speaker 1: parents than everybody that bullied him. I'm looking at him

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Speaker 1: right now, pale white guy. Let me guess Lonard that

426
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 1: lives with his parents. Okay, you know what I'm looking.

427
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: Looks can be so deceiving, Chandler, Indians. If you look,

428
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,720
Speaker 1: wait a minute, there's a street. Is it actually on

429
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,119
Speaker 1: Tranquil or is it on Peaceful Lane? It is on

430
00:26:31,280 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 1: Peaceful Lane, because there's another street named Tranquil. What is

431
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 1: this place? Okay, I'm looking at the photo of the

432
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 1: parents home. It's a really nice place. I mean, looks

433
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 1: are so deceiving, Doctor Michelle Joy Curtin Lee, certainly. I mean,

434
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's when you least expecting what you

435
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,640
Speaker 1: don't expect that we see in these kind of pieces.

436
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: I also wonder just kind of with with what Chandler

437
00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:55,879
Speaker 1: was saying and this whole narrative. One other thing that

438
00:26:55,960 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: comes to mind for me, even though it isn't a

439
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:00,800
Speaker 1: manifesto or it's not, you know, that typical narrative that

440
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: we see with some of the shootings and everything with

441
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: being bullied and that sense, but this seems to be

442
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 1: related to not just payback and revenge, but there was

443
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: like an attention seeking element to this in the sense

444
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: not only of what his plans he says were, but

445
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:20,760
Speaker 1: how he literally spilled the beans on himself. Right, It's

446
00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 1: like he really wanted people to know about this, and

447
00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: you kind of put that in the context of this

448
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 1: person that was probably you know, quiet, with the list, bullied, unassuming,

449
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:35,199
Speaker 1: and it's just this whole counter reaction that wants this huge, dramatic,

450
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: you know, cannibalistic multiple killings, and not just as he

451
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,920
Speaker 1: you know, apparently desired us so much so that he

452
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,640
Speaker 1: can't keep it to himself. With the with the interviews

453
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:50,000
Speaker 1: with law enforcement Chandler Inians, back to you and hey, guys,

454
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: the rest of you on the panel. Remember this isn't

455
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 1: High Tay at Windsor Castle with King Charles and Camilla

456
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:01,159
Speaker 1: jump in paper Chandler Indians. So let me understand. Nance

457
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: approaches the woman at a local gas station and they

458
00:28:06,080 --> 00:28:09,760
Speaker 1: exchanged phone numbers. He obviously calls her. They get together.

459
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:13,600
Speaker 1: He invites her over to his home, his parents place,

460
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: where I guess he lives in the basement. Right there.

461
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: She should have run screaming for the hills as if

462
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 1: she had seen a monster. But that said, they get together.

463
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: He offers to pick the woman up. He brings her

464
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:29,320
Speaker 1: back to his home. And then you were right in

465
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,119
Speaker 1: the middle channeling before I so rudely interrupted you. She

466
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: got a bad feeling when he locked the door. Pick

467
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,439
Speaker 1: it up right there, channel, I'm want to hear every detail.

468
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,880
Speaker 1: Sure is at that time that he's accused of going

469
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: for a state knife from the kitchen that he uses

470
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: are allegedly uses as the instrument in this horroring episode

471
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 1: of this young woman. She is able to defend herself

472
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 1: in such a way that she's able to get the

473
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: knife away from him, and then she's able to get

474
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: out of the house. We have an uncertain timetable for

475
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 1: exactly how long this happened or how long this took.

476
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: You can imagine it must be pretty quick. He goes,

477
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: I cannot, for the life of me, imagine that she

478
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,040
Speaker 1: stuck around too long the moment she saw an opportunity

479
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: to get out. If I heard that door a lock,

480
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,120
Speaker 1: that's when he had seen nothing but elbow and tailhole

481
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: of me running. That's what didn't see. But the door

482
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: was locked. Time stories with Nancy Grace, So apparently Chandler

483
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,960
Speaker 1: and I'm understanding, she fights back. He locks the door

484
00:29:47,280 --> 00:29:49,920
Speaker 1: and attacks her with a knife. She fights back, she

485
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: cuts her own hands in the process, and she manages

486
00:29:52,840 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: to get out and run. And that's where she runs

487
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: into the guy who distorts his voice, or so it sounds.

488
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:03,400
Speaker 1: Do I have that right? All indications point to the

489
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,040
Speaker 1: wounds that she sustained to having been flicked upon her

490
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:10,960
Speaker 1: while she was trying to wrangle the knife away. Aha,

491
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: got it. So they were fighting to get the knife away.

492
00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: Then you tell me Chandler inions. That's when we learn

493
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: about his desire to murder people and eat them. Take

494
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,480
Speaker 1: a listen to WBT. Deputies say that Nance told them

495
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 1: he wanted to mutilate her and leave her body out

496
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: for cars to see. Deputies also claimed that Nance expressed

497
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:38,760
Speaker 1: an interest in killing others as well as cannibalism. Nance

498
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: has been charged with false imprisonment, assault with a deadly weapon,

499
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: and first degree kidnapping. He's currently in jail under a

500
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: six hundred thousand dollar bond. And more, it's what Nance

501
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 1: told deputies after the fact that's even more bone chilling.

502
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 1: Deputies say in the interviews with Nance, he said he

503
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: chose the woman randomly and wanted to kill her. Foot

504
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: for the thrill of it. He also told deputies he

505
00:31:03,240 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: wanted to mutilate her and kill other people. He said.

506
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:10,959
Speaker 1: Nance also expressed an interest in cannibalism. Honestly, I've had

507
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 1: thoughts go across my mind. What if he had tried

508
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 1: to break in my house and get one of my daughters.

509
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: And that's terrible that I even have that thought. I

510
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: wish I hadn't, But that is the reality of it

511
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,320
Speaker 1: right now. This is hearkening us all back to the

512
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:32,320
Speaker 1: case of Brian Coburger. Coburger charged and we now believe

513
00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:38,640
Speaker 1: thrill killed a four young University Idaho students. I want

514
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: to go back to doctor Joy, doctor Michelle Joy joining us.

515
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 1: What is a thrill kill? Number one? I guess I'm

516
00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: not sure if there's any precise definition that's used in

517
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,400
Speaker 1: a legal context or anything like that, but the way

518
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: he's making it sam in the way I would tend

519
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,320
Speaker 1: to think of it as something for the pure quote

520
00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,560
Speaker 1: pleasure of it, the excitement that there's something hedonistic about it,

521
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: which you know is even amping at up a level

522
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:08,440
Speaker 1: with the cannibalism aspect of how many different kinds of

523
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 1: pleasure is this person expecting to weirdly and sickly get

524
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: from from, you know, the pain and suffering of another

525
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,160
Speaker 1: person or people. So we'll just start there that it's

526
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,840
Speaker 1: somehow exciting and pleasurable for him to think about in

527
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:28,840
Speaker 1: and perhaps undertake these actions. And doctor Joy, what about cannibalism?

528
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: What leads someone to become a cannibal? I don't know

529
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 1: that we have great research on that or you know,

530
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: many controlled studies or anything of that nature. But in

531
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: a sense, I think of it like a like an

532
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: odd um. You know, we think of fetishes or paraphilias

533
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,200
Speaker 1: like some kind of obsession um in that sense that

534
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: I mean in that last case with the co worker,

535
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: you know, he spoke about um or other people said

536
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: that he basically wouldn't even eat uh, pots, pans, dishes

537
00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:00,920
Speaker 1: that had touched other kinds of me because he was

538
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: so like a freed that he would become addicted to

539
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: the taste of flesh and become a cannibal, you know, uh,

540
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: And so he avoided it in that sense. So it

541
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 1: just seems, you know, in that case and in some

542
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: others that we've you know, looked at over and in

543
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 1: the news and everything as well as movies, it seems

544
00:33:18,960 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 1: like it's it's an obsession. Um. I don't know if

545
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: it comes from you know, watching movies, gets this idea

546
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 1: in the head or something, but it's definitely not something

547
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,800
Speaker 1: that we know of enough people to study and have

548
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,560
Speaker 1: a good sense of really where this is coming. You know.

549
00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 1: I'm thinking this through Chris McDonough, who has been working

550
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: on the Brian Coburger tase The aspect of a thrill kill. Guys,

551
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 1: take a listen to our cut seventeen from our Franciel.

552
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: I don't think this investigation is going to continue, definitely.

553
00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: I think I think Jonathan's right. We're going to find

554
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: presumably find the knife. The FBI is involved, they are

555
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:59,440
Speaker 1: the strong. I think that the most aggressive investigators are not.

556
00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: If he's the guy, you think this was his first murder, murder,

557
00:34:04,920 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 1: possibly bad act. No, I think he's killed before, most

558
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,840
Speaker 1: likely in the same fashion. Probably so not not for people,

559
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:17,720
Speaker 1: but I think he's probably stalked and potentially killed females before.

560
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 1: If he's the killer, this viciousness of brutality and the

561
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: butchering of these four individuals, I can't imagine this is

562
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: the first time. And we have the case of Aidan Fucci.

563
00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: Take a listen hourcut nineteen from our friend Lestan. As

564
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:37,280
Speaker 1: you will recall, this young killer picked out someone at random,

565
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 1: a gorgeous young teen girl, because he wanted to see

566
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:44,000
Speaker 1: what it was quote like to kill. Listen. During his

567
00:34:44,120 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 1: police interrogation, Fucci's parents scolded him for posting on social media.

568
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:58,440
Speaker 1: Tristan's body was discovered in a secluded wooded area. She

569
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 1: had been stabbed one riden fourteen times. Fucci pleaded guilty

570
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: to first degree murder. Fuccie presented this handwritten apology. I'm

571
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 1: sorry for all the pain I caused the Bailey family.

572
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 1: I know my apology will not fix anything or bring

573
00:35:14,719 --> 00:35:19,040
Speaker 1: her back. That didn't sway the judge who sentenced Fucci

574
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,000
Speaker 1: to the maximum penalty allowable under Florida law. There is

575
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: only one appropriate sentence in this case. I send you

576
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 1: to life in prison. Back to Chris mcdonna, guys, a

577
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: homicide detective and star of the Interview Room on YouTube.

578
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,280
Speaker 1: Chris mcdonna, a thrill kill and your experience having handled

579
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 1: so many homicide what is it and how would you

580
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:48,200
Speaker 1: describe someone who is interested in cannibalism? One name comes

581
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:53,319
Speaker 1: to mind almost immediately is Jeffrey Dahmer. He had hedonistic,

582
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:58,320
Speaker 1: as the doctor mentioned, tendencief towards sheenal, cannibalism and that

583
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:00,920
Speaker 1: type of stuff. In the majority of these guys. For

584
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 1: the thrill kill, if we use Brian you know, BK

585
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: Brian corbort or for an example in Nancy, and when

586
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:10,239
Speaker 1: we talk about this guy's development here, it sounds like

587
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 1: this was a at first. It starts out with an organized,

588
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 1: you know, attempt to get this victim back to this

589
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,320
Speaker 1: place of control, and then from there it kind of

590
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:26,239
Speaker 1: goes sideways for the suspect in this particular case that

591
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: we're talking about, and because that is the main point

592
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:34,320
Speaker 1: this individual's trying to get to is typically their mission

593
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 1: or you know driven they you know, they have a

594
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:43,960
Speaker 1: purpose right off the bat to control these victims rather quickly,

595
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 1: and that can be driven from a deep seated problem.

596
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 1: And the doctor can elaborate on this ten thousand times

597
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: better than I of seeking to revenge, you know, potentially

598
00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:00,200
Speaker 1: eliminating a specific type of personality that they feel, you know,

599
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 1: that they need to get rid of. And Brian Corberger

600
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:08,239
Speaker 1: falls into that category. And I think as we get

601
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 1: closer to his trial. Nancy, you and I both sense,

602
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:15,680
Speaker 1: and you've dealt with these guys for years that a

603
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:19,440
Speaker 1: lot is going to come out about their dysfunctionality and

604
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 1: relationship to their ability to relate on a general level,

605
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 1: just to the general public and people around him. This

606
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,279
Speaker 1: guy is going to be one of a weirdo. People

607
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,760
Speaker 1: are going to call him a weirdo due Chandler Amiens.

608
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,880
Speaker 1: I agree with everything Chris mcdonnah just said. So he

609
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: claims that he was the alleged purpose in this case,

610
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,640
Speaker 1: claims he was bullied in high school, He lives with

611
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 1: his parents, does he have a job, did he go

612
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 1: to college? What more do we know about him? And

613
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: is it true he said he wanted to mutilate the

614
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,640
Speaker 1: victim and leave her on display for people to pass

615
00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: by on the road. Yeah, so what we found out

616
00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: after we ran the story, the Facebook comments started pouring

617
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,400
Speaker 1: in from from co workers that had said that they

618
00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 1: always knew something was wrong, or that he had given

619
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 1: them very off putting vibes, you know when they when

620
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: they would work together at a at a business not

621
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: not not far from China Growth, So he would creep

622
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 1: everybody out. So I was just like co Burger and

623
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,760
Speaker 1: is it true he told detectives he wanted to physically

624
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,239
Speaker 1: mutilate her and put her on display for people to see.

625
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,800
Speaker 1: So that was one element of it. The other element,

626
00:38:26,840 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: as it pertains to the cannibalism, it almost seems as

627
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: though it was as much perhaps a fetish of his

628
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 1: or as it was a scare tack for that would

629
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:41,360
Speaker 1: you know, play back into the control element of it.

630
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,160
Speaker 1: He specifically set, or is alleged have set that he

631
00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:48,520
Speaker 1: wanted to cut her fingers off and eating them in

632
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 1: front of her and while she was still alive, which

633
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 1: to me indicate trying to scare the heck out of Okay,

634
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,959
Speaker 1: I hardly know where to go with that, um doctor

635
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,000
Speaker 1: Joy cut her fingers off and ate them in front

636
00:39:04,040 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: of her while she's still alive. I mean, there's there's

637
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 1: a thing that comes to mind, you know, stick through

638
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. In a sense,

639
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: he's like shouting all these things that I want to

640
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 1: I want to be a cannibal. I want to mutilate.

641
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,000
Speaker 1: I want to you know, leave her out for people

642
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 1: to see. I want her to eat, you know, see

643
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: me eating her her fingers. There's just so much going

644
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: on is it a little bit hard to wade through.

645
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,880
Speaker 1: But what what comes to mind for me, similar to

646
00:39:28,960 --> 00:39:31,480
Speaker 1: leave to the last speaker, is there's something you know,

647
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,960
Speaker 1: this is intended to be intense. Whether that was truly

648
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: something that he desired to do in front of her

649
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: or that's what the narrative that he's you know displaying. Now,

650
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:43,759
Speaker 1: that's that's I think harkens back to that idea of

651
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 1: like revenge and fear. There's he wants to send a message,

652
00:39:46,719 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 1: right even saying leave the body out for people to

653
00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: see in the road, Like there's a message that he's

654
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 1: trying to send. And you know, the corollary to that

655
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: message is that he's a very weird and twisted individual.

656
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 1: But I think, you know, that's is so extreme and

657
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,759
Speaker 1: so bizarre, um that I have to agree it either

658
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,960
Speaker 1: has to be about scaring the Jesus out of her

659
00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 1: herself or just all of us in our you know,

660
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: perception of him. And now you know, is there a

661
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,239
Speaker 1: fame seeking element to a kind of you know, a

662
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: notoriety element to this as well? So I wanted to comment, Yeah,

663
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,439
Speaker 1: so it was doctor bannerjeez. So I wanted to say

664
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:27,640
Speaker 1: I've done quite a few dismemberment cases, and you have

665
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,480
Speaker 1: to look at this as obviously very deranged in the

666
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 1: sense that normally dismemberment is done to like hide the

667
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: body after the person's killed, but actually cutting off fingers

668
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 1: and eating them. And it's at tension seeking. It's not

669
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:49,280
Speaker 1: a hiding phenomenon. And the other thing is any sharp force,

670
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 1: like sharp injury, like a stabbing, flashing, that's very personal.

671
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 1: So he wants to not only be involved, but also

672
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: look at me. You know, it's not at all ern Miller.

673
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: I guess there's only one place to go now that

674
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,360
Speaker 1: the client has said all of this, and that's the

675
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: insanity defense. Well, let me jump into follow up on

676
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 1: what your detective said. He brought up the name of

677
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: Jeffrey Dahmer, who basically lived in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, in a nice,

678
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 1: quiet neighborhood, a loaner, and he was eventually convicted of

679
00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 1: killing fifteen boys, not just killing them, but dismembering them,

680
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:37,799
Speaker 1: saving body parts including organs, hearts, genitals, cutting their heads off,

681
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 1: and what he did with them when he was done

682
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:42,239
Speaker 1: eating parts of them, he would save them in those

683
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 1: parts in the refrigerator so he could eat them on

684
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,879
Speaker 1: a future occasion and talk about the instanity defense while

685
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 1: he took a shot at the act. But he unfortunately

686
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: made a statement that's reported after his arrest that said, officers,

687
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 1: thank you for arresting me, because that's the only way

688
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,520
Speaker 1: I was going to stop doing this, um dad, insanity

689
00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:09,879
Speaker 1: defense went nowhere Chandler Indians joining me and investigative crime

690
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 1: reporter at the Salisbury Post. Where does the case stand now? Well,

691
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 1: it's it's you know, it's in the court process. They

692
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:23,799
Speaker 1: with the upgraded charges to attempted murder. You know, he's

693
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:29,800
Speaker 1: now looking at significantly more time. The last hearing that

694
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,840
Speaker 1: they had was of four cause hearing, and you know,

695
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: we've certainly got all that evidence of the information you

696
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,440
Speaker 1: know that came out out there. But as these things do,

697
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 1: they're expected, it takes some time, I guess. So I

698
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 1: expect that hunter, Chase and Nance it's going to have

699
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 1: a nice long stay at a mental diagnostic facility for

700
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:58,920
Speaker 1: the state before he's declared sane and competent to stand trial.

701
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:05,560
Speaker 1: So no more meat cutes at the gas station and

702
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,840
Speaker 1: going to someone's home, someone you don't even know. We

703
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 1: wait as justice unfalls. Goodbye, friend,