1 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:06,960 Speaker 1: Hey fam, Hello sunshine. Today on the bright side, it's 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,200 Speaker 1: Wellness Wednesday. And if you've seen the headlines on microplastics 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,240 Speaker 1: and wondered should I be freaking out? 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 2: Are they the silent polluters in our homes? 5 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:17,919 Speaker 1: Well, we're cutting through the panic with doctor Heather Leslie. 6 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:19,279 Speaker 2: She's here to tell us what. 7 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: Actually matters, where microplastics are hiding, how they're affecting our health, 8 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: and what we can do about it all. It's Wednesday, 9 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 1: February nineteenth. 10 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 3: I'm Danielle Robe and I'm Simone Boye and this is 11 00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:33,360 Speaker 3: the bright side from Hello Sunshine. 12 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:35,960 Speaker 2: Danielle. 13 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 3: I don't know about you, but I feel like I 14 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:41,520 Speaker 3: am constantly bombarded with headlines about the dangers of microplastics, 15 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 3: and it's hard not to panic. 16 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:47,880 Speaker 1: Well, first of all, yes, and second of all, that's 17 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:51,280 Speaker 1: sort of the problem is that they're everywhere, Like they're 18 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 1: in our water, our food, our clothes, even our air. 19 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: And so for most of us who are thinking about 20 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:01,600 Speaker 1: our health, or our caid's health, or our parents' health 21 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: on a daily basis, those headlines are really scary. 22 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 3: Do you remember that movie Dark Waters from twenty nineteen, Yes, yes, 23 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 3: absolutely so. Darkwaters is a film that's based on a 24 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,479 Speaker 3: true story about a lawsuit against the chemical company DuPont 25 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:21,119 Speaker 3: for polluting a town with unregulated chemicals, and it chronicles 26 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 3: the mysterious deaths that followed Mark Ruffalo's in the film 27 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 3: and Hathaways in the film. And for me, it was 28 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 3: really eye opening about the dangerous consequences of these chemicals. 29 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 3: And after I watched that movie, I made a lot 30 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 3: of changes. I like throughout all of my teflon cookware 31 00:01:38,240 --> 00:01:40,840 Speaker 3: that I got when I got married, and we switched 32 00:01:40,840 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 3: to all non toxic stuff, And so I was feeling 33 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 3: really energized about taking control over this issue. But then, 34 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 3: like you were saying, when I started to realize how 35 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 3: prevalent these microplastics are, I just feel defeated. 36 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:55,240 Speaker 2: Now. 37 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 3: I feel like, how can I possibly even make a 38 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 3: dent in removing these these toxins for my life. 39 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 1: So I do a lot of work with the Environmental 40 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: Working Group, which is known as the EWG, and they 41 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: talk about this a lot. And the reason I started 42 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: working with them is because I felt so overwhelmed. I 43 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: was so freaked out because these microplastics, they say they're 44 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: messing with our hormones, our immune systems, some studies even 45 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: say our fertility and so that panic is definitely real, 46 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:28,920 Speaker 1: but organizations like the EWG break it down, and so 47 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: I think our guest today is also somebody who is 48 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,239 Speaker 1: going to break down this information in a way that 49 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 1: feels like we're a little bit more in control and 50 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: we can try and avoid some of these things and 51 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 1: lessen our panic. Yeah. 52 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 3: Doctor Heather Leslie is a scientist and truly a leading 53 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 3: expert in the realm of microplastics. She was actually part 54 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,239 Speaker 3: of the team that first detected microplastics and human blood. 55 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 3: If you can imagine how monumental that knowledge would have 56 00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 3: been at that time. I obviously have tons of questions. 57 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:01,519 Speaker 3: I want to get to the truth, I want to 58 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 3: get past the panic, and I want to understand how 59 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 3: these plastics are really affecting us. So let's bring her 60 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 3: in joining us all the way from Amsterdam. 61 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 2: It's doctor Heather Leslie. 62 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:13,680 Speaker 1: Doctor Leslie, welcome to the right side. 63 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 4: Thank you very much. 64 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 2: So we're going to get into all of the science 65 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: and all the important stuff. 66 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: But I have to ask you right off the bat, 67 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:22,600 Speaker 1: am I actually eating a credit cards worth of plastic 68 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: every week? 69 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 4: That's kind of fake news. 70 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 5: I think we are eating something, but it's not exactly 71 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,519 Speaker 5: the same thing as a credit card a plastic. 72 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 2: I feel so relieved hearing that. 73 00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm glad. 74 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: What exactly falls under the microplastics umbrella? 75 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: What are we eating? 76 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 4: Yeah? 77 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 5: Well, microplastics are a really complicated kind of toxicant because 78 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 5: they're made up of so many different chemicals. You have 79 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 5: the polymers, which I sometimes refer to as as spaghetti, 80 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 5: but then you have additives, which I call the sauce. 81 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 5: So it's a sort of a cocktail of chemicals that 82 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 5: are in a microplastic. So one piece of plastic you 83 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 5: can have four hundred different chemicals in there. 84 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: What are the primary sources of microplastics? Are they solely 85 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: the result of larger plastics breaking down or are there 86 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:09,520 Speaker 1: other ways that they enter the environment. 87 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 5: Well, most of them are just shreds that are just 88 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:14,640 Speaker 5: eroding off of our plastic stuff. But you do have 89 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 5: some microplastics that are we call them primary microplastics, and 90 00:04:19,080 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 5: they're manufactured to be microplastics. You see that sometimes in 91 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:27,160 Speaker 5: cosmetics or personal care product they make microbeads put in there, 92 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 5: and that's an example of intentionally made plastic that are 93 00:04:31,839 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 5: micro sized. 94 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,279 Speaker 1: And is there a breakdown primarily a result of time, heat, 95 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 1: physical wear, and tear. 96 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: What are the key processes at play? 97 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 4: Those are good key processes. 98 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 5: So when you have a UV light like sunshine on plastic, 99 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:48,960 Speaker 5: it breaks it down a little bit faster. But nothing's 100 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 5: linear with breakdown of plastics. Sometimes you know something will 101 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,919 Speaker 5: crack and it will break. But then to really break down, 102 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 5: to completely mineralize, to go back to the earth, let's 103 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 5: say it takes hundreds of years, if not longer. 104 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 3: Doctor Leslie Danielle threw out that headline at you at 105 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 3: the top of this conversation, and you responded saying it's 106 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 3: fake news. And for me, that's what I really want 107 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:17,440 Speaker 3: to get out of this conversation, not just for me 108 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 3: and my family, but also for our listeners. I really 109 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 3: want to cut through the panic here and try to 110 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 3: understand what is a healthy amount of awareness about this 111 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 3: issue and what is an unhealthy amount of fear around microplastics. 112 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:35,840 Speaker 3: What is a healthy perspective on this, What is a 113 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:40,080 Speaker 3: healthy way to view how these toxins are impacting us? 114 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:43,719 Speaker 5: Yeah, well, I think no amount of fear is healthy. 115 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 5: So fear is just bad for us, bad for your health. Basically, 116 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 5: so turn down the fear. It is a serious issue though, 117 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 5: and I spent a lot of years my life working 118 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 5: on this, and I hope I didn't waste that time. 119 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 5: I do think that our world, in our bodies with 120 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,800 Speaker 5: the world, are getting polluted with a lot of different chemicals, 121 00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 5: and this is you know, some people don't mind having 122 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 5: a lot of chemicals in their bodies. Some of us 123 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:13,000 Speaker 5: still put chemicals in our body on purpose that aren't 124 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 5: good for us. And I think everybody should be free 125 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 5: to just choose, but when it comes to pollution, you 126 00:06:18,279 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 5: don't really have too much freedom to choose, or there's 127 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 5: limitations to that, and that's where it gets to be 128 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 5: a bit problematic, where you you know, you really want 129 00:06:25,960 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 5: to be able to choose what goes into your body. 130 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 5: And microplastics are made up of many different components, so 131 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 5: polymers and a lot of chemicals, and some of them 132 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 5: are harmless, but some of them can cause toxic effects 133 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 5: like hormone disruption or neurotoxicity. And one of the ones 134 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:49,359 Speaker 5: that the microplastics are getting known for is their ability 135 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 5: to cause inflammation. So it's an immune system response and 136 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 5: what we don't want in our bodies is inflammation, especially 137 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 5: on the long term, because a long term inflammation is 138 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,240 Speaker 5: like a prelude to a lot of chronic diseases. So 139 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 5: I think it's just prudent to when you signal something 140 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:12,360 Speaker 5: on the horizon that there's some indications that there's a 141 00:07:12,440 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 5: problem with toxicity, that we just try to limit our 142 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 5: exposure to these components, and we really have to keep 143 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,120 Speaker 5: on doing the research to deliver the answers. Just that 144 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 5: science is a bit slow to deliver all the answers 145 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:26,280 Speaker 5: at once. 146 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 3: Well that's not always a bad thing. I'd rather slow 147 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 3: and accurate versus fast and untrue. 148 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 4: Definitely. 149 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 3: So I want to underscore something that you just said. 150 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 3: You said that the priority is to limit exposure, because 151 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 3: at this point it feels like completely cutting off exposure 152 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 3: to microplastics just seems unrealistic. So what does it look 153 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,760 Speaker 3: like to limit our exposure to these microplastics. 154 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 5: Yeah, so I think it's what you said. It's impossible 155 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 5: to fully limit your exposure to microplastics on the planet Earth. 156 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 4: So what I do. 157 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 5: Also is to take small steps to where it's living 158 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 5: more aligned with what I really want my body to 159 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 5: be in contact with. So you can think about it 160 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 5: in your home. Next time you buy a blanket, you 161 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 5: don't have to buy a polyester blanket or nylon clothing, 162 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:19,760 Speaker 5: or any kind of interior carpets or curtains, anything that 163 00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:23,200 Speaker 5: you're bringing into your home furniture. If it's not plastic, 164 00:08:23,240 --> 00:08:26,679 Speaker 5: it's not going to shed plastic. And if it's not plastic, 165 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 5: it won't be carrying plastic additives in it. And sometimes 166 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 5: the solution to a problem can also bring other problems 167 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,439 Speaker 5: with it, so you have to pay attention. 168 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:40,240 Speaker 1: But yeah, how close are we to understanding the long 169 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: term health effects of microplastics? 170 00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,760 Speaker 5: I think the long term health effects are a long 171 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 5: way away in our understanding. What we will first find 172 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 5: out is what happens at a cellular level, because toxicity 173 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,640 Speaker 5: testing in a laboratory will look at, you know, really 174 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 5: zoom in on something very molecular level. But then how 175 00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:05,480 Speaker 5: that all pans out for the individual body or a 176 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:08,360 Speaker 5: whole population of people. That takes a lot of time 177 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,600 Speaker 5: and a lot of resources, and it's just a question 178 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,679 Speaker 5: of whether we're going to be investing that. One thing 179 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,719 Speaker 5: I can say is that if diseases pop up that 180 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 5: are from environmental factors, they often pop up in occupationally 181 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 5: exposed people. So people may be working in a workplace 182 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,720 Speaker 5: where there's a lot of plastic dust that they're inhaling, 183 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:33,719 Speaker 5: or in another way, they're swallowing a lot of chemicals, 184 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:39,520 Speaker 5: or they're breeding it in. And these populations are sometimes 185 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,959 Speaker 5: the populations where we first see diseases arising. So that 186 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,000 Speaker 5: could accelerate some of our understanding, but I hope it 187 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:49,600 Speaker 5: doesn't get to that point that people are getting really acutely, 188 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 5: very sick from this stuff. 189 00:09:51,480 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 3: So would you explain what exactly is happening in our 190 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 3: bodies when microplastics invade our organs and our bloodstream. 191 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 5: So a few years ago, we published a paper that 192 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 5: showed plastics to be floating around in our bloodstream, and 193 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:08,880 Speaker 5: of course your blood goes everywhere in your body, so 194 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:11,560 Speaker 5: it will be present in all of your tissues and 195 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 5: organs as well. And we were a bit surprised how 196 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,520 Speaker 5: much we did find. I mean, it's a preliminary study 197 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 5: that has since been redone and with similar results, so 198 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 5: it seems like we do have exposure in there. And 199 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,880 Speaker 5: if a microplastic is in a bloodstream, and I've looked 200 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:33,319 Speaker 5: at microplastics in blood samples under a microscope, and you 201 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 5: can see that your immune cells are really active, so 202 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:40,960 Speaker 5: they immediately sense there's an invader and they will go 203 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 5: and attack this piece of plastic. And these immune cells 204 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 5: have enzymes inside which they try to break down the 205 00:10:48,679 --> 00:10:52,040 Speaker 5: plastic because they're treating the plastic particle like a bacteria. 206 00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 5: But the problem is that plastics, unlike bacteria, don't succumb 207 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 5: to an enzyme attack. So after a few days, the 208 00:11:02,120 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 5: cell gives up and the enzymes get released into whatever 209 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 5: tissue is nearby that can also cause an inflammation, and 210 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:12,920 Speaker 5: then the plastic still remains there. And I don't know 211 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 5: how long it will take for a body to eliminate 212 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 5: the plastic that it receives today. Nobody, I think, knows 213 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,800 Speaker 5: that yet, but we do know that the rate of 214 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 5: absorption of these plastics is certainly faster than the rate 215 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 5: that we are able to eliminate them. Otherwise we wouldn't 216 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 5: be finding them in our bodies, in all these organs 217 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 5: that you see in the news and also in our 218 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 5: study in the bloodstream. 219 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:40,520 Speaker 1: When did this first pop up, and maybe even particularly 220 00:11:40,559 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: in American culture, did something change in industry or was this. 221 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 2: Always the case? 222 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: We were always ingesting a ton of microplastics, and only 223 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: in the last ten twenty years are we studying it. Yeah. 224 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 5: Well, the very first signals of microplastics was in the 225 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 5: Sergasso Sea and that was the end of the sixties. 226 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 5: But there were also patents for using pulverized plastic in 227 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,480 Speaker 5: makeup like blush and things like that, those who go 228 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:13,439 Speaker 5: back to the fifties. Even so, it's been on some 229 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 5: people's radars, but certainly hasn't been on mainstream radar until 230 00:12:18,520 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 5: fairly recently. And one of the people who was really 231 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:26,200 Speaker 5: instrumental in bringing it to the public was Captain Charles Moore, 232 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 5: also from California, who went out sailing on the Pacific 233 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 5: Ocean and stumbled across old toothbrushes and bottles and toys 234 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 5: that were floating in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, 235 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 5: and he thought, that's crazy, what are these things doing here? 236 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 4: And he's been. 237 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 5: Also studying microplastics in the sea as well, so he 238 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:46,960 Speaker 5: really put it on the map. 239 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: I would say, we have to take a quick break, 240 00:12:50,600 --> 00:13:03,240 Speaker 1: but we'll be right back with doctor Heather Leslie. And 241 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: we're back with doctor Heather Leslie. 242 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 3: Well, doctor Leslie, we also have to give you your 243 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 3: flowers because you are a leading expert in this space, 244 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 3: and you're known for your pioneering research in identifying and 245 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 3: quantifying microplastics in human bloodstream for the very first time, 246 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 3: which is huge. And you also led the EU's first 247 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,760 Speaker 3: research project on marine plastic pollution, which you were just 248 00:13:26,760 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 3: speaking about the prevalence of microplastics in marine pollution. How 249 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 3: much has changed from your vantage point? How has the 250 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 3: prevalence of microplastics in society evolved since you started doing 251 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 3: this work. 252 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, I really noticed a lot of more attention than 253 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 5: compared to the past. I mean sometimes I'm sitting on 254 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 5: the train and I hear some people talking about cleaning 255 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 5: products or microplastics in their toothpaste. And it's not just 256 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 5: because of my research, but also because of NGOs that 257 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 5: amplify the message and they take the research that they 258 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 5: put it out there in their platforms, and I think 259 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 5: there's a lot of awareness now. 260 00:14:04,720 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 4: School kids seem to know just as much as I know. 261 00:14:08,320 --> 00:14:11,600 Speaker 5: If I speak to them, they're full of knowledge and 262 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 5: also solutions and they're very very concerned, so they're very 263 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 5: easy also to make their changes. You know, they love nature, 264 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 5: they love animals, and they're willing to do something for it. 265 00:14:23,640 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 3: Well, I have two kids, and I think about just 266 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 3: how hard it is to limit their exposure to microplastics. 267 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 3: I mean, plastic seems to be the prevailing material that 268 00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 3: companies use to create products for children. It's in the toys, 269 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 3: it's in the sippy cups, it's in the plastic plates. 270 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 3: And I know that I should be reaching for stainless steel, 271 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 3: But I'd love to hear any alternatives that you might 272 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 3: have for parents out there who are looking to limit 273 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 3: exposure in their own home. 274 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good point. 275 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,480 Speaker 5: Children are also, that's an early life stage, and they 276 00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:59,680 Speaker 5: are more sensitive than adults to a lot of these 277 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 5: hormone disrupting chemicals and possibly also the microplastics itself. So 278 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 5: we've seen some studies coming out about baby bottles that 279 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 5: you know, especially when you heat up plastic or have 280 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 5: warm liquids or warm food in plastic containers, that's really 281 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 5: when processes go a little faster and you get even 282 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 5: more exposure. So, as I said, if there's no plastic 283 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 5: in the product, it won't come out into your food 284 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,160 Speaker 5: or it won't be exposed to your child to plastic. 285 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 5: It's very difficult, but I think it's okay to start 286 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 5: with one thing and slowly work your way up to 287 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:39,880 Speaker 5: seeing how far you can get, see how jazzed up 288 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 5: you can get. To reduce your plastic exposure. A lot 289 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 5: of kids will put things in their mouths. You have 290 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 5: the stuffed animals, and I think, you know, we can't 291 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 5: just reduce the amount of joy that kids get from 292 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 5: having their toys, but we can start to, especially for 293 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,120 Speaker 5: really young age groups that put a lot of things 294 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 5: into their mouths, try to reduce the amount of things 295 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 5: that are made of plastic and look for more natural 296 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 5: materials than natural dyes and things like that. But I 297 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 5: feel sorry for parents because it seems like a big 298 00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:14,160 Speaker 5: mountain of work to do, just like for adults, but 299 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 5: for children it's a special case. 300 00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 2: Yes, it's very intimidating. 301 00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 5: Yeah, and I'm here really to say not to be intimidated. 302 00:16:22,080 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 5: I think just to do the best you can to 303 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 5: set the intention. Whenever you make a choice, maybe it'll 304 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 5: enter your head and you'll be able to choose a 305 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 5: different option. And that's the way to go. Because we 306 00:16:33,920 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 5: can't change everything overnight. But there are so many things 307 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 5: that we can do, and I think a lot of 308 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 5: people look towards the government and waiting for them to 309 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:46,000 Speaker 5: change things for us. And it's also an American style 310 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,440 Speaker 5: of thinking to just think for yourself to get it 311 00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 5: done without help, you know, And I really admire that. 312 00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 5: I think that's the way to go because in my experience, 313 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 5: I've talked a lot with governments, but I think they're 314 00:16:59,520 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 5: going to be the last ones. After all the companies 315 00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,959 Speaker 5: have changed and all the people like us have changed 316 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 5: into a new way of living, then they're going to 317 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,800 Speaker 5: catch up and they'll regulate it all for us. But 318 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:13,320 Speaker 5: you know, I really think that we have to be 319 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 5: ahead of the game to draw us into the future 320 00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,679 Speaker 5: of living a less plasticized life. 321 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,239 Speaker 2: It's a really important perspective shift. Thank you. 322 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:27,440 Speaker 1: I am really into trying to reduce toxins in my life. 323 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:34,120 Speaker 1: Cleaning products, makeup, even my mattress, bath towels. A few 324 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:37,560 Speaker 1: years ago really tried to do an overhaul. And I 325 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 1: remember asking my physician when I was like at the 326 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:45,199 Speaker 1: beginning stages of this, if I made one swap today, 327 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: what is the first thing that I should do? And 328 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,320 Speaker 1: this was just his personal perspective, but he said, deodorant 329 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:53,720 Speaker 1: because it's going right into your lymph nodes. If you 330 00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: could swap one thing, that would be my recommendation. So 331 00:17:57,560 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: I say that all to say, I know this is 332 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: a tough question, but if you could make the number 333 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:06,440 Speaker 1: one recommendation today, what is one way that we can 334 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,600 Speaker 1: reduce our exposure to microplastics? 335 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 5: I would have to go with food. So processed food, 336 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 5: like getting away from whole foods will get you into 337 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 5: more microplastics and also other chemicals. 338 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:21,439 Speaker 4: I think it's for all around health. 339 00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 5: It's a really very very strong way to make a 340 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 5: difference in your exposure. Of course, food is something is 341 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,400 Speaker 5: going right into our bodies, just like a deodorant through 342 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 5: the skin. 343 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:33,879 Speaker 4: But I mean. 344 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 5: Ingesting something is very direct way of getting it inside. 345 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,479 Speaker 5: I mean, just about two generations, I think the world 346 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,679 Speaker 5: has kind of switched to things that come in a package, 347 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 5: and the packaging releases a lot of chemicals and also microplastics. 348 00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 5: If you rip something open, of course, plastic is going 349 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 5: to get inside. Chewing gum is also made of plastic. 350 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,920 Speaker 5: You don't swallow it normally, but you could also avoid that. 351 00:18:58,440 --> 00:18:59,399 Speaker 4: So yeah, I would say. 352 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 5: Food is is a really big source of a lot 353 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 5: of toxicity. 354 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,240 Speaker 4: At the same time as being something that keeps us alive. 355 00:19:06,800 --> 00:19:09,640 Speaker 5: But I think if you can improve your food quality, 356 00:19:09,840 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 5: I think it's the single most thing I would recommend. 357 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:14,359 Speaker 2: That is huge. Thank you for sharing that. 358 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 3: It's time for another short break. We'll be right back 359 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 3: with doctor Heather Leslie. And we're back with doctor Heather Leslie. 360 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 3: Doctor Leslie, can we go through a few potential swaps 361 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 3: for plastic with you? 362 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:35,240 Speaker 4: Sure? 363 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 3: All right, let's talk about tea bags, paper coffee cups, 364 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:40,360 Speaker 3: you know the ones that you get at coffee shops. 365 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 3: Are there any swaps for these? 366 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:42,760 Speaker 4: Oh? 367 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:47,680 Speaker 5: Sure yeah. Paper cups with the polyethylene lining, and the 368 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 5: polyethylene will start to melt even before one hundred degrees 369 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:55,360 Speaker 5: celsius like boiling water temperature. So I would say if 370 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,520 Speaker 5: you don't need to buy a coffee in one of 371 00:19:57,520 --> 00:19:58,960 Speaker 5: those cups, or if you can get it in a 372 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 5: real cup or bring your on cup, it's much better. 373 00:20:02,359 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 5: Tea bags also give off a lot of microplastics, and 374 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,480 Speaker 5: loose tea is lovely to use. You have a little 375 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 5: tea egg or in my teapot, a teapot with a 376 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:15,000 Speaker 5: built in little filter. 377 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: Last year we spoke with a doctor who told us 378 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: to never ever microwave or reheat anything that's in plastic. 379 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: What exactly happens when we microwave plastic? How bad is it? 380 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,440 Speaker 4: Well, yeah, that's another heating process. 381 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:32,560 Speaker 5: So the plastic gets warmed up, and that will encourage 382 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 5: the chemicals that are in the plastic to leave and 383 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 5: go in volatilized. They just evaporate and they go into 384 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 5: your food. And then also the material is a little 385 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:46,760 Speaker 5: bit structurally damaged by every heating episode, so a little 386 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,680 Speaker 5: bit of microplastic will will be released. Then using plastic 387 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 5: in a microwave is not a good idea. You can 388 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 5: just put it in a glass container or ceramic container 389 00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 5: and heat it up. 390 00:20:57,800 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: I think that one of the biggest scams of the 391 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: twin first century was bottled water. Everybody thought that nodding 392 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:07,920 Speaker 1: your head, yes, we were doing a good thing by 393 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: or a healthy thing by drinking water. And there's a 394 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 1: ton of reasons that bottled water is bad, but microplastics 395 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:17,600 Speaker 1: has to be at the top of that list. 396 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:19,919 Speaker 2: Are you able to explain why it's. 397 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,920 Speaker 4: Very difficult to measure microplastics in water? 398 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,719 Speaker 5: I can say, but there are studies that have found 399 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,359 Speaker 5: just millions of them, you know, or at least hundreds 400 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 5: of thousands in one liter. 401 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 4: That's a lot. 402 00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,800 Speaker 5: And I don't think you need a toxicologist to tell 403 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 5: you that you don't want to be drinking water which 404 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 5: has a quarter of a million microplastics in it. And 405 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:44,359 Speaker 5: the other thing about bottled water is it's usually tap 406 00:21:44,400 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 5: waters from somewhere else, and it costs like two thousand 407 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,600 Speaker 5: times more than tap water, and we buy it because 408 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 5: it's convenient, and sometimes we think it tastes good or 409 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,960 Speaker 5: it's better quality than our tap water. But I think 410 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,160 Speaker 5: you know, if you really want to have good drinking 411 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,200 Speaker 5: water which you can bring with you in your own 412 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 5: bottle that doesn't have to be plastic, you can also 413 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 5: look into filtering water at home. We're not very much money. 414 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 5: The price that you pay for bottled water for a 415 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 5: whole year will certainly pay for for a filtration unit. 416 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 3: Of course, as I'm hearing you speak, I have all 417 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 3: these images rushing to my mind of all the microplastics 418 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,440 Speaker 3: I've engaged with over the course of my thirty seven 419 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 3: years on this earth. And there's one scene in particular 420 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 3: that I'm thinking about where I visited a recycling plant 421 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 3: when I was a journalist and was watching the process 422 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 3: of breaking down all these plastic bottles into small, tiny 423 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 3: pieces to then have them remade into new products. But 424 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 3: when I'm hearing you speak, I'm questioning the impact of 425 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 3: microplastics on recycling and sustainability efforts around the world. We 426 00:22:56,920 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 3: kind of were under this impression that recycling and breaking 427 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 3: down plastic and creating new products was a good thing. 428 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 3: But what I'm hearing you say is that that's probably 429 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:07,200 Speaker 3: not a good thing. 430 00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 5: Recycling is a tricky one because it can work for 431 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:15,040 Speaker 5: certain types of plastics, like food contact material plastics which 432 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 5: don't have a lot of additives in them. But it's 433 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 5: very very tricky to bring back used plastic, know what's 434 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:24,959 Speaker 5: in it, and make something else out of it. 435 00:23:24,960 --> 00:23:27,080 Speaker 4: It's also takes a lot of energy. 436 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 5: There's a lot of worry with manufacturing that there might 437 00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 5: be some residual additives in it, so that's why a 438 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 5: lot of people don't want to use that. And the 439 00:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 5: other problem is that the material itself is not as functional, 440 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 5: so to make something completely out of recycled plastic is 441 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 5: really difficult, so you always have to add what we 442 00:23:45,920 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 5: call virgin plastics with it in order to get functionality. 443 00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 5: So actually I think the things that nature recycles. I 444 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 5: think nature is really good at recycling its own stuff. 445 00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 5: And when we are making our new. 446 00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 4: Fangled plastics, we have to also think about how it 447 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,800 Speaker 4: could be recycled too, And if we're not good at 448 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 4: recycling it, maybe we should use a lot less of it. 449 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:13,360 Speaker 5: And of course there's some really good applications of plastic. 450 00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 5: We're using plastic just to do this interview, but I 451 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,320 Speaker 5: think there's a lot of plastic applications that are kind 452 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 5: of low hanging fruit, you know, the things that are 453 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,680 Speaker 5: single use, and that there is a really good alternative 454 00:24:24,720 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 5: for a lot of things are just overpackaged. 455 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 1: You know. 456 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 5: If we're eating a lot of processed food, then there's 457 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,639 Speaker 5: extra packaging, you know. But if you buy the fruits 458 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 5: and vegetables, they're packaged by nature, you know, and those 459 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 5: those packages are going to be recycled also by nature 460 00:24:42,160 --> 00:24:42,679 Speaker 5: very easily. 461 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 3: Well, doctor Leslie, we have not stopped peppering you with questions, 462 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,959 Speaker 3: so clearly there's a lot of interest in this topic. 463 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,080 Speaker 3: And also there are so many opinions out there are 464 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 3: going to be hard to know who to trust on this. 465 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 3: So with that in mind, will you help us bust 466 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 3: some microplastic myths I'll try. 467 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:00,640 Speaker 2: Okay. 468 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,880 Speaker 3: First up, we've been hearing that BPA free products are 469 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 3: safer than traditional plastics. 470 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:07,800 Speaker 2: Is that true? 471 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,359 Speaker 5: Well, my big question when they say it's BPA free, 472 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:13,080 Speaker 5: I say, well, I want to know, not what's not 473 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:13,479 Speaker 5: in it. 474 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 4: I want to know what is in it. 475 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 5: And sometimes BPA has been taken out, but they put 476 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 5: in something that's very very similar to BPA that also 477 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 5: has similar toxicity. 478 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,640 Speaker 4: So BPA is something. 479 00:25:25,359 --> 00:25:28,439 Speaker 5: You don't want to have in your plastic, in your 480 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:32,160 Speaker 5: water bottles or in your baby bottles. It's another endocrine 481 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:35,000 Speaker 5: disrupting chemical, but you don't want them to replace it 482 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 5: like a chemical substitution that's just as bad as what 483 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 5: you used to have, like jumping from the frying pan 484 00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 5: into the fire. 485 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 2: Are all plastics created equal? 486 00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:50,160 Speaker 5: No, There's some that are more environmentally damaging or more 487 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 5: dangerous to your health than others. 488 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:53,560 Speaker 4: And you know, you have food. 489 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 5: Contact plastic, which they really try to make non toxic, 490 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,159 Speaker 5: but then you have some types of plastic that not 491 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 5: paying attention to toxicity at all, and they really go 492 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:08,040 Speaker 5: for it. And so there's definitely differences. There's at least 493 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,960 Speaker 5: ten thousand different types of plastic on the market, different recipes. 494 00:26:12,840 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: While we're on the topic of food, there's also been 495 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:19,399 Speaker 1: concerns of microplastics in seafood, and especially shellfish, because we 496 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: usually eat the entire animal, microplastics included. Unfortunately, one study 497 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: found that people who eat large amounts of seafood and 498 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:30,240 Speaker 1: jest up to eleven thousand microplastic particles a year. 499 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,640 Speaker 2: Should we avoid seafood. 500 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,520 Speaker 5: Well, yeah, and seafood especially filter feeders like muscles and oysters. 501 00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 5: They can really filter out a lot of microplastics. And indeed, 502 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 5: you're eating the whole animal, and if it hasn't had 503 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 5: a chance to get rid of its guts, you're going 504 00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 5: to have some microplastics in it. So it's I think, 505 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,760 Speaker 5: you know, you can enjoy seafood. Sometimes there's also other 506 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 5: issues about with different things in the sea with seafood, 507 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 5: like mercury. Sometimes depends where the seafood comes from, and 508 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:04,159 Speaker 5: if it's from a relatively clean area, then it's fine. 509 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 5: I think the study you mean was a Belgian study 510 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 5: which was in a not very clean area of the 511 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 5: North Sea. So you know, everything in moderation. I would say, 512 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 5: what about. 513 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 2: The clothes in our closets. 514 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,439 Speaker 3: There's a good chance the majority of my closet right 515 00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:22,920 Speaker 3: now is made up of plastic fabrics that contain plastic 516 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 3: like polyester and nylon. Should we be avoiding synthetic fabrics altogether. 517 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,919 Speaker 5: Yeah, Synthetic fabrics are a really good source of plastic exposure. 518 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 5: Your clothing is next to your skin, so that's your 519 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,639 Speaker 5: biggest organ So any chemicals that are in those fabrics, 520 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,080 Speaker 5: especially when they're new, will be leaching out in into 521 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:44,119 Speaker 5: your skin, and microplastics will be coming off with the 522 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,280 Speaker 5: microfibers with wear and tear, so you can breed them 523 00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,800 Speaker 5: in and they can also enter the wastewater systems and 524 00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 5: your surface water with the. 525 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 4: Laundering of them. 526 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:56,840 Speaker 5: So if you want to reduce your microplastic posure through 527 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 5: your clothes, you can just think about next time you 528 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:02,160 Speaker 5: go shopping if you can find something that has more 529 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:07,400 Speaker 5: natural ingredients in it, so cotton or linen or wool clothing. 530 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:11,720 Speaker 5: I would personally avoid nylon. There's also research being done 531 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,919 Speaker 5: here in the Netherlands about nylon, and this was with 532 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,800 Speaker 5: lung cells and the lung cells really didn't like to 533 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 5: be near the nylon, so when they were growing in 534 00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 5: the laboratory on their own, and there was nylon fibers 535 00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,960 Speaker 5: put in there, or even water where nylon fibers had 536 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,400 Speaker 5: been present, that was enough to stop them from growing. 537 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:36,119 Speaker 5: And it doesn't say you're going to get sick, but 538 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 5: it's just another signal that I think, you know, no 539 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 5: paralysis by analysis. I just want to do something now. 540 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 5: If I don't need this product, I'm not going to 541 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,000 Speaker 5: bring it into my home. And the other thing about toxicology, 542 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 5: which I should say which might be comforting, is we 543 00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 5: always say the dose makes the poison. So a little 544 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 5: bit of poison is manageable, and it's only during a 545 00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,200 Speaker 5: cross exposure to to something that's really toxic are you 546 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 5: going to really see health effects. So I think it's 547 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,360 Speaker 5: it's also a case of do you feel like changing 548 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 5: or does it not matter too much to you? You know, 549 00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 5: And for the things you feel like changing, it's going 550 00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:19,200 Speaker 5: to be easy to find an alternative. It's just kind 551 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,280 Speaker 5: of raise your awareness first, and then that affects all 552 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 5: the choices that you make. 553 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,200 Speaker 2: Here on in Okay, what about makeup? 554 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 3: How bad is the microplastic content in lipstick, lipbalm, mascara, 555 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:33,320 Speaker 3: even eyeliner. 556 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 5: Women who wear lipstick apparently eat several kilos of it 557 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 5: during a lifetime. So if there's plastic in there, and 558 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 5: I have looked at that and also Lipbam, there's a 559 00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 5: lot of plastic components in that. So if you can 560 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:51,560 Speaker 5: find brands that are more from the natural cosmetics lines, 561 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,760 Speaker 5: then you will be reducing your amounts of exposure, especially 562 00:29:55,960 --> 00:30:00,080 Speaker 5: toothpaste and lipstick and lip ball, but also anything that 563 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 5: to put on your face. We know that microplastics have 564 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 5: a really hard time going through the skin, but the 565 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 5: chemicals that are in microplastics will be able to be 566 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 5: absorbed by the skin in many cases. 567 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: I just want to share a resource because it's the 568 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 1: only thing that's helped me. Ewg dot org, slash skin deep. 569 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: You can put in all of your ingredients, brands, personal 570 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 1: care products and see all of that stuff and try 571 00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,480 Speaker 1: and make a swap because it's really hard to look 572 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: things up product by product without it. This is my 573 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 1: last question for you. You are probably the only expert that 574 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:41,959 Speaker 1: I have heard that makes this feel less overwhelming, and 575 00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:45,400 Speaker 1: I can imagine that people listening are still going to 576 00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 1: walk away feeling a little doom and gloom. Here as 577 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 1: someone who's knee deep in the research. How do you 578 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:52,520 Speaker 1: remain optimistic on this. 579 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 5: Well, one of the advices that I got from someone 580 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 5: was to never be a pessimist, because pessimists never get 581 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 5: anything done. So he recommended being an optimist. And I 582 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 5: also do really do have a vision for how we 583 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:10,920 Speaker 5: can do things better for our planet and for our 584 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,800 Speaker 5: kids and for our own health. 585 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 4: And I'm I. 586 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 5: Think it's it's really fun to just stop and think 587 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 5: about the world that I want, thinking about when I 588 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:24,960 Speaker 5: wake up, where do I want to wake up, who's there, 589 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,120 Speaker 5: what stuff is there? What am I going to do today? 590 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:29,840 Speaker 5: What am I going to do this evening? What am 591 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 5: I going to do this weekend? All of these things 592 00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 5: that you know, we don't often stop to think about 593 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 5: what we really want, what kind of materials do we want? 594 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 5: What kind of buildings are we living in and working in. 595 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 5: You can really have a wonderful time with yourself just 596 00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,239 Speaker 5: being quiet and thinking about how it would feel to 597 00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,880 Speaker 5: live in that world. That's the first step, and then 598 00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 5: you can think of what can I do today that's 599 00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 5: a little bit like that world, you know, And I 600 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 5: see a lot of people all doing that, taking small 601 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 5: steps because it's too overwhelming to get it all done 602 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 5: even this year. You know, it's just it's a question 603 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 5: of small steps with a real intention, using your imagination 604 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 5: to go in the direction that you really feel good 605 00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 5: about going in. Make it fun, and you're not going 606 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:22,120 Speaker 5: to enjoy anything any less. You're going to enjoy things 607 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 5: more when you're more aligned with what you really want 608 00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 5: in deep in your heart. And that's something that we 609 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 5: don't really talk about very much. It's kind of uncomfortable 610 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 5: because we think, well, what I want is so far 611 00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:36,680 Speaker 5: from what I have, or all sorts of things that 612 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,080 Speaker 5: can make us anxious. But really go back into the 613 00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:44,000 Speaker 5: vision of your future, the way you want your. 614 00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 4: Today to be, and see how far you can get. 615 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,360 Speaker 4: And it's a wonderful process and I think. 616 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 5: If anybody out there listening will try it. It's very 617 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 5: empowering because you're not outsourcing your power to somebody else, 618 00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,840 Speaker 5: some company who has to reformulate, some advertiser who has 619 00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,600 Speaker 5: to advertise something else to you, or to the government 620 00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:09,640 Speaker 5: that has to fix everything, but really just in your 621 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 5: own individual life doing it your way. 622 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,880 Speaker 3: Well, you really are changing the world with your intentionality, 623 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,480 Speaker 3: optimism and insights. 624 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,480 Speaker 2: Thank you so much, doctor Leslie. 625 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:20,240 Speaker 4: Thank you too. 626 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 2: Thank you so much. 627 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 3: Doctor Heather Leslie is a scientist and leading expert in 628 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:33,160 Speaker 3: microplastics based in Amsterdam. 629 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 2: That's it for today's show. 630 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: Tomorrow, we're joined by the hilarious author, comedian and TV 631 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 1: host Chelsea Handler. Her new book, I'll Have What She's 632 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 1: Having is out next Tuesday, February twenty fifth. 633 00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:48,960 Speaker 3: Join the conversation using hashtag the bright Side and connect 634 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:52,200 Speaker 3: with us on social media at Hello Sunshine on Instagram 635 00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 3: and at the bright Side Pod on TikTok Oh. And 636 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,040 Speaker 3: feel free to tag us at simone Voice and at 637 00:33:58,160 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 3: Danielle Robe. 638 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,640 Speaker 1: And then follow the bright Side on the iHeartRadio app, 639 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,360 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 640 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,240 Speaker 2: See you tomorrow, folks, Keep looking on the bright side.