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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number fifty five.

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Speaker 1: Tan the show, we're diving into the sticky topic of

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Speaker 1: deer hunting, politics, policies, and problems. So buckle up because

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Speaker 1: this one gets a little feisty. All right, Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought to you by our

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Speaker 1: friends at Sick of Gear. Now, today, as I mentioned

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Speaker 1: in the introduction, we're going to be talking about deer

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Speaker 1: hunt in, politics, policies, and problems. And we're doing this

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Speaker 1: because the two thousand fifteen North American Deer Summit was

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Speaker 1: held last week and all three of those things were

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Speaker 1: in focus at that event. So that said, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to spend today recapping the North American Deer Summit and

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Speaker 1: diving into the many different issues that were up for

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Speaker 1: discussion and debate over the past few days. But before

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Speaker 1: we get to all that, we've got something pretty important

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Speaker 1: to discuss. My co host and new dad of a

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Speaker 1: little boy, Mr Dan Johnson, is back on the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back, Bug I'm back. You are. I'm tired. I'm tired.

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Speaker 1: You know, like remember how we used to always be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: what kind of beer you drinking while we record the podcast?

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Speaker 1: You know that I'm drinking black coffee right now. If

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Speaker 1: that tells anything, it does, second kid, don't do it.

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Speaker 1: If if your wife try, you know, anybody says, hey, man,

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Speaker 1: let's do the world of favor. Let's do you are

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Speaker 1: part and have a second kid. They're trying to trick you, okay,

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Speaker 1: and that might just be the stress talking, but uh,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a change apace. I love him to death,

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Speaker 1: and uh it's it's it's something, it's it's an awesome experience.

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Speaker 1: But you know, I gotta tell you a quick little story.

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Speaker 1: So my first child was a girl, right and you know,

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Speaker 1: changing her diapers was easy. You have all systems go

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Speaker 1: when you change your boy, because if you're not ready

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Speaker 1: and prepared, you're getting a facial you're getting you're getting

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Speaker 1: rocket peas that are going like four or five ft.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's not just little dribbles. You think, little baby,

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Speaker 1: we have little peas. No, they have grown man peas.

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Speaker 1: And we've changed our bedsheets like seven eight times. So no,

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Speaker 1: not me. I still got it together. But this little guy,

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Speaker 1: his name is Mac and uh, he is just all

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Speaker 1: he does and literally eat, sleep, defecate in p I

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Speaker 1: mean that's all he does. So he's living the dream.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, if you if you could add deer

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Speaker 1: hunting into that list of things to do, I would

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Speaker 1: find that a great life. Yeah that's really Oh man,

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Speaker 1: well that's that's awesome. But I don't I don't envy

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Speaker 1: the whole getting the p in the face. But you're

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Speaker 1: you're gonna get it. Someday, You're gonna get it. I

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Speaker 1: know you're gonna. Your first kid's gonna be a boy,

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Speaker 1: and his nickname is gonna be the Sprinkler. If that's

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Speaker 1: the case, I don't even know what to say that.

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Speaker 1: How's this? How's the little guy sleep? Right now? He's

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Speaker 1: sleeping all the time, which is good. He'll wake up,

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Speaker 1: like at night, he'll wake up every three to four

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Speaker 1: hours and he'll cry and I change his diaper and

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Speaker 1: pe and because of my wife's soft work, she's handling

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Speaker 1: most of that. I sleep in the same room though

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Speaker 1: I'm up anyway. But I'm like ever since before I

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Speaker 1: had kids, I could sleep through a tornado siren. But

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Speaker 1: since I've had kids, I'm like on a high alert

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Speaker 1: all the time. So any squeak in the house, any

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Speaker 1: little noise that the kids make, I'm up and like

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Speaker 1: ready to attack. I don't know what it is. It's

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Speaker 1: just like some kind of instinct has taken over me.

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Speaker 1: So that's like the biggest thing that worries me is

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Speaker 1: like I just I don't function when I don't have

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Speaker 1: like relatively consistent sleep, and I just I'm panicking already

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Speaker 1: about waking up every two hours and getting like four

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Speaker 1: hours of sleep every night. Let me let me tell

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Speaker 1: you what I compare it to. Okay, you know, you

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Speaker 1: got your two week corrupt vacation and you're about seven

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Speaker 1: days into your hunt. Your hunting every morning, you're hunting

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Speaker 1: every night. There's days you're sitting and stand all day long,

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Speaker 1: got that fresh air, and you're just like almost a zombie,

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Speaker 1: but you still keep going. That is what it's like

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Speaker 1: right now for me. Man, I know that feeling and

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Speaker 1: it's brutal. Yeah. Yeah, So that's that's the best way

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Speaker 1: I can put it to people who don't have kids,

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Speaker 1: is that that kind of tired, you're worn out, I

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Speaker 1: mean you're not you know, when you think of deer hunting,

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Speaker 1: what are you really doing physically? If you're a tree

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Speaker 1: stand hunter, you're setting up your tearing down, But then

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Speaker 1: you just sit in one spot for hours at a time.

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Speaker 1: You know. Here you're just sitting. You're not doing too

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Speaker 1: much physical activity, you know, but you're drained. And I

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Speaker 1: just want it to be over. Yeah a long time, man, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: no doubt, right is what what's the best thing about this? Like,

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Speaker 1: is there any good thing? I'm assuming there is? Oh yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: Just like my daughter is a character and watching her

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Speaker 1: grow up and and get a personality is is an

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Speaker 1: amazing thing. Like I love her so much, and just

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Speaker 1: she's she's gonna be a firecracker, just like her mom,

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Speaker 1: but she sings all the time. And watching her develop

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Speaker 1: physically and mentally, and she's gonna be smart too. And

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Speaker 1: then my son, just like I don't if you've ever

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Speaker 1: watched a birth like I was there. I was holding

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Speaker 1: the legs, I was watching the head come out of

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Speaker 1: the vagina and all that stuff that goes along with Hey,

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Speaker 1: this is this is real talk, man, And and watching

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Speaker 1: your your child actually be born is a life changing event.

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Speaker 1: And it's just like you don't get grossed out, you

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Speaker 1: don't get nauseous, You're just sit there and you you

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Speaker 1: look at it and you're like, I'm a man. I

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Speaker 1: made that. And the cool thing about a boy is

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Speaker 1: like it's almost like historical. It's because that son will

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Speaker 1: someday carry on your legacy. Right if he carries he's

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Speaker 1: gonna carry your name for the rest of his life.

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Speaker 1: And hopefully he can be better than I was, just

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Speaker 1: like I can try to be better than my dad.

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Speaker 1: And you know, it's just it's it's a pride. It's

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Speaker 1: it's it's pride, you know. It's like, that is my son.

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Speaker 1: You know. I hope he turns out to be a

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Speaker 1: great man, you know what I mean, that's pretty cool.

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Speaker 1: That's yea. As much as kids scarely crap out of me,

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Speaker 1: and given everything you've told me over the last you know, year,

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Speaker 1: I am really looking forward to that. And I bitch

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Speaker 1: a lot. I mean I bitched and complain a lot

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Speaker 1: about about not my kids but having kids, if that

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Speaker 1: makes sense, And but there's nothing I would rather do,

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Speaker 1: you know, then spend time with them and hang out

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Speaker 1: with him. And and it's cool because my daughter. She

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Speaker 1: wants to be outside all the time, and I absolutely

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Speaker 1: love that she's interested in the outdoors already. So I'm

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Speaker 1: pumped to this summer get her out fishing for the

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Speaker 1: very first time, and you get her dirty and get

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Speaker 1: her used to it. So I can, you know, basically

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Speaker 1: have a hunter in training in my under my belt.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's pretty cool. Well, I uh, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you're gonna do a great job raising your new son

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Speaker 1: and and you're soon to be a fishing hunting daughter.

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Speaker 1: So pretty pumped for your buddy. Oh, thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 1: Let's get let's get talking about this though. I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: really excited to hear what you have to say about this. Yeah, I, um,

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Speaker 1: there was so much to happen last week. Um, and

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Speaker 1: so this I haven't really been able to like, um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know what the right word is, not decompressed,

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Speaker 1: but uh gosh, just like when you come back from

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Speaker 1: like a battle and you come back to the main

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Speaker 1: base and you have to sit back and have a

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Speaker 1: meeting about what happened. What's that word? It's like you're

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Speaker 1: you're you're not yet absorbed everything that actually happened. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm still haven't fared out my word, but but yes

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Speaker 1: to what you said, I still haven't, um, just processed

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Speaker 1: it all. And I think if we can talk about today,

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Speaker 1: I think that's gonna help me process it and hopefully

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be something that's helpful to everyone listening to

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Speaker 1: because you know, there's a lot of things happening in

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Speaker 1: the deer hunting world. Um. We've talked about this a

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Speaker 1: little bit, you know, in some of our past episodes.

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Speaker 1: I think it was I guess I don't remember what number,

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Speaker 1: But earlier this year we had Kip Adams to talk

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Speaker 1: about the state of white tails and he talked about

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Speaker 1: a lot of different challenges in the deer hunting world

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Speaker 1: right now. And then a couple of weeks later, we

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Speaker 1: had Dr Grant Woods on the show and he talked

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Speaker 1: about some of the ways that we can you know,

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Speaker 1: deal with some of these challenges. Um. But you know,

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Speaker 1: last week at the two thousand fifteen North American Deer Summit,

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Speaker 1: we were taking a look at these challenges from a

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Speaker 1: really big picture of view. So not just you know,

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Speaker 1: how do I deal with too many coyotes on my property?

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Speaker 1: But this is how do we deal with the things

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Speaker 1: that are affecting all deer hunters and deer hunting agencies

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Speaker 1: or you know, wildlife agencies and the hunting industry and

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Speaker 1: everything at the very very highest level, one of these

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Speaker 1: big problems or policies or political issues that are that

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Speaker 1: are going to impact you and me and everyone listening.

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Speaker 1: And that's kind of a big deal. And I think

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Speaker 1: for the first time, well I don't think this really

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Speaker 1: is the first time, you know, in the past year

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Speaker 1: where the larger deer hunting community has come together to

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Speaker 1: discuss these issues and talk about, you know, what can

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Speaker 1: we do as a community to address them. So it's

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Speaker 1: really kind of historical and it's kind of neat to

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Speaker 1: be a part of that. UM. And so what I

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Speaker 1: want to do today, Dan was really quickly, I'll just recap,

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Speaker 1: you know, how we got to this point. We've talked

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Speaker 1: about it a a little bit, UM, but just for anyone

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Speaker 1: who hasn't followed along with this the past year, I

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Speaker 1: want to talk a little bit about what happened last

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Speaker 1: year with the very first dear summit that ever happened,

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Speaker 1: and then how that led to this event last week. UM,

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Speaker 1: and then we can you know, I thought i'd do

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Speaker 1: is I could walk us through all the main things

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Speaker 1: that happened at the summit, talk about, you know, what

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Speaker 1: the different speakers had to say, or what the different

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Speaker 1: debates for debates were, um, and then you know, I

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Speaker 1: think we can just kind of explore each of those

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Speaker 1: different issues. You know, I'm interested in sharing some of

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Speaker 1: my opinions and would of course love to hear what

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Speaker 1: you think about some of these things, and UM, you know,

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Speaker 1: my end goal is to to make sure everyone out

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Speaker 1: there understands what happened, make sure everyone you know feels

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Speaker 1: educated on what these different issues are, and then hopefully

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Speaker 1: we can maybe give us all a little bit of

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Speaker 1: encouragement to take action on some of these things. We

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Speaker 1: can talk about how we can how we can make

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Speaker 1: sure our voice is heard and make sure that you

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Speaker 1: know what what our hopes and thoughts are for where

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Speaker 1: we see the deer hunting community UM going. Hopefully we

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Speaker 1: can you know, make change and make sure that happens.

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Speaker 1: So that's kind of my high level, ambitious goals for

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Speaker 1: the next hour. But I think we can do it.

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Speaker 1: What do you think Let's get the party started, Mark, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think we should. So a real quick history recap,

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Speaker 1: Dan and you tell me, I think you know most

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Speaker 1: of this, but if not, feel free to you know,

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Speaker 1: ask me any more questions. But as we've talked about before,

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Speaker 1: lots of different challenges that have been impacting the deer

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Speaker 1: hunting world. Um. You know, in two thousand seven and

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Speaker 1: in two thousand twelve, we had the largest e h

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Speaker 1: D that's a very common deer to these outbreaks, UM,

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Speaker 1: and that caused a whole massive, uh really die off

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Speaker 1: of deer across many parts of the country. So that happened. Recently,

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Speaker 1: we've had, you know, as we talked about a couple

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Speaker 1: ways to go with cap adams, declining deer harvest across

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Speaker 1: many parts of the country, especially the Midwest. Um, We've

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Speaker 1: had some historically difficult winners that caused a lot of

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Speaker 1: winter kill. We've had increased levels of predators in many

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Speaker 1: parts of the country, which is causing you know, much

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Speaker 1: lower fun recruitment rates. We've had all these things going on.

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Speaker 1: Plus we've had a number of controversies around you know,

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Speaker 1: captive deer. We've had controversies around you know, how many

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Speaker 1: dope permits should be allowed. All sorts of different things

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Speaker 1: like that have just caused kind of a climax of

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Speaker 1: concern around deer hunting, and so coming out of that

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Speaker 1: which really started reaching a peak in you know, after

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Speaker 1: the two thousand thirteen season, the Quality Dear Management Association

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Speaker 1: decided to put on an event that brought together really

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Speaker 1: everyone involved in the dear world and bring them all

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Speaker 1: to one place that the keys to a coolers, bring

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Speaker 1: them all in one place and talk about what's going on.

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Speaker 1: So that was the two thousand fourteen North American Deer Summit,

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Speaker 1: and that was an invite only event which brought together

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Speaker 1: some of the the all the different number of the

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Speaker 1: different wildlife agencies, so state, phish and game agencies. It

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Speaker 1: brought together representatives of different conservation and advocacy organizations in

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Speaker 1: the hunting world. It brought together the hunting media. It

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Speaker 1: brought together a bunch of people that represented companies in

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Speaker 1: the hunting industry. UM, it brought just regular hunters and UM,

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Speaker 1: I think I'm missing one other category academia, so different

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Speaker 1: people within the deer research community. Brought all these different

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Speaker 1: people together talk about, Okay, what's going on here? And

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Speaker 1: so the big takeaways coming out of that event were identifying, Okay,

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Speaker 1: what are the issues that we're concerned about right now,

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Speaker 1: what are the things impacting deer and then you know,

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Speaker 1: what's our next step. And one of the biggest thing

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Speaker 1: that came out of that was that there needed to

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Speaker 1: be a national organization to represent deer hunters and deer

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Speaker 1: at a large national level and one could advocate on

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Speaker 1: behalf of all of us and something that that's something

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Speaker 1: that currently isn't there. You know, Dan, there's the Quality

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Speaker 1: Deer Management Association, which is a great organization, but they

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Speaker 1: represent a smaller subsegment of the deer hunting population, the

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Speaker 1: people that are involved in a certain type of management.

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Speaker 1: There's White Tails Unlimited, and they represent deer hunters and

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Speaker 1: some advocacy on the grassroots level um, but there really

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Speaker 1: isn't just an overarching group that kind of fits all

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Speaker 1: deer hunters. And so, as you know, and as we've

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Speaker 1: talked about before in the podcast, the National Deer Alliance

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Speaker 1: has created this past summer. I won't, you know, go

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Speaker 1: in more details about what that is because we've talked

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Speaker 1: about it before, but coming out of that, the National

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Speaker 1: Deer Alliance has now partnered with the Quality Deer Management

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Speaker 1: Association White Tails Unlimited in the meal Deer Federation or

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Speaker 1: Foundation I can't member, which that's bad. Um. So the

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Speaker 1: three major deer groups are now working in partnership with

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Speaker 1: the National Deer Alliance to to tackle these larger deer issues.

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Speaker 1: And so that's what the two thousand fifteen North American

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Speaker 1: Deer Summit um was to be us to bring all

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Speaker 1: those stakeholders back together. Now the National Deer Alliance has

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Speaker 1: been created. That step number one. Now, this event this

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Speaker 1: past week was talking about Okay, let's talk let's identify

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Speaker 1: what the absolute most important issues are for the NBA

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Speaker 1: the National Deer Alliance. What are those most important issues

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Speaker 1: for the NBA to start actually making immediate impacts on.

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Speaker 1: And then number two, let's talk about actual action items.

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Speaker 1: So what are the specific things that we need to

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Speaker 1: do to address those issues. So at a high level,

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Speaker 1: that was the goal of this event. It was a

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Speaker 1: three day event. It was like an all day thing, um,

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Speaker 1: and it was it was it was a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff going on. So I think that puts us in

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Speaker 1: a position where we can kind of I think, have

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Speaker 1: a good hopefully some good context of what this is

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Speaker 1: all about. So I got a real, real quick question

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Speaker 1: for you. Yeah, it's Actually, it's actually pertains to this.

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Speaker 1: It's it's two questions. Actually, well one's a comment and

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Speaker 1: this this one that you were at this past week

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Speaker 1: was open to the correct. That is correct. Huge grape

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Speaker 1: for me is that it was a Wednesday, Thursday and

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Speaker 1: Friday event. Correct. That is correct, And it so right there,

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Speaker 1: you're kind of you're kind of isolating people who have

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Speaker 1: to work away from this job away from that, you know,

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Speaker 1: because I would have loved to be at that event,

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Speaker 1: but I would have had to take in vacation days

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Speaker 1: to do it if I was you know, obviously, if

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Speaker 1: there's people out there who are really serious about doing it,

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Speaker 1: just like certain trade shows, I know it's more of

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Speaker 1: a you know, a business type thing to have it

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Speaker 1: during the week, but I felt that something like this

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Speaker 1: should have been held on a weekend so a majority

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Speaker 1: of people, like the more public I have a feeling,

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Speaker 1: would have attended. Uh. And then you get a larger

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Speaker 1: sample size of of what individuals issues are. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: agree with you. I Um, I definitely think that was

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Speaker 1: something that impacted the amount of participation. Um. And then

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Speaker 1: another thing, UM, I lost my tray. I thought, what

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Speaker 1: was your second question? My second question was turnout. I

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Speaker 1: want to know was there a lart was were the

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Speaker 1: people that were there? Was it public or what did

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Speaker 1: they all have? Were they all a part of you

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Speaker 1: know that the Mule Deer Federation or the White Tails

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Speaker 1: Unlimited or Quality Deer Management or some state and game

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Speaker 1: agency or was there was there a mixture of of

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Speaker 1: people there? I mean, I have I have some notes here,

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Speaker 1: Like I remember texting me this weekend and saying, um,

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Speaker 1: are there this? You know, are there certain who's who's there?

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Speaker 1: And you said the majority of the people are are

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Speaker 1: the behind the scenes people? So so like I think

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Speaker 1: I asked you a hunting industry people, like, were any

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Speaker 1: celebrities there were any? Um like business people there like

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Speaker 1: let's say, for example, the owner of Real Tree, like

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Speaker 1: it was Bill Jordan there, or any anybody similar to

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Speaker 1: him that that has more of a financial uh reason

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Speaker 1: to be there as opposed to you know, because in

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Speaker 1: one of the articles I read, forty five billion dollars

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Speaker 1: a year is created by whitetail hunting alone in that industry.

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Speaker 1: It's huge, it's huge. Um. So yeah, to your question,

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Speaker 1: a lot of good stuff there. Um turnout was several

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Speaker 1: hundred I think between two and three hundred somewhere on there.

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Speaker 1: And the survey that we did a survey at the

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Speaker 1: very beginning. UM, this is a really interactive so it

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Speaker 1: was voting done throughout the throughout the event, and we

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Speaker 1: had these little clickers where we had to punch in

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Speaker 1: our answers to these different questions. UM. It was about

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Speaker 1: evenly split, almost perfectly evenly split, if I believe, or

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Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, between industry representatives, which would be

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Speaker 1: like owners of companies and representatives of a company, so

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Speaker 1: between industry, between media, between um, like conservation organization people

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Speaker 1: which would be like a cute many person or whatever, UM,

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Speaker 1: and regular hunters just a person who has no other

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Speaker 1: affiliation except for being a hunter, um and whatever. The

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Speaker 1: other couple are the only one that had a much

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Speaker 1: smaller portion was the academics, so like people just from

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Speaker 1: a university that have researchers or something. UM. So I

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Speaker 1: don't know if there was if it was something like

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Speaker 1: if it was three hundred, you know, whatever that three

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Speaker 1: hundred divided by six groups or five groups of different

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Speaker 1: type of people was. That's about what the split was. Now.

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Speaker 1: I think two things. I think to your point, if

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Speaker 1: it was a different part of the week. If it

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Speaker 1: was like Friday, Saturday, Sunday or something, I think there

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Speaker 1: would have been a lot more of just your general

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Speaker 1: public hunter, which would have been great. Um. And then

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Speaker 1: but number two, just in general, I was disappointed with

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Speaker 1: the turnout, especially from people who are, you know, particularly

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Speaker 1: invested in this community. So, like, like you said, hunting celebrities,

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Speaker 1: there wasn't and I'm going to kind of call out something.

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna call it specific people, but I'm just

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Speaker 1: going to call it the general hunting, TV hunting media

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Speaker 1: group of people out there. Right. These are quote unquote

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Speaker 1: celebrities who make a living from the hunting industry. They

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Speaker 1: make a living from deer and they you know, they're

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Speaker 1: a big deal because of it. I didn't see a

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Speaker 1: single person, Well, the only person from a TV show

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Speaker 1: I saw there was Stephen Ronella, who was there as

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Speaker 1: a speaker, handle leader, you know in ways. But other

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Speaker 1: than him, there was not a single person that I

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Speaker 1: saw from the TV world there to talk about, to

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Speaker 1: be involved at all in this discussion. And you know,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm sorry to interrupt, but you know, was

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Speaker 1: he paid to be there? Is he paid to speak? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: He I mean those those main those main keynote speakers.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure we're paid. I don't I don't know details

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Speaker 1: about but my assumption. That's my assumption. Right. Um. So

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Speaker 1: that said, you know, where are these big famous TV

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Speaker 1: guys that their whole world in living depends on this.

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Speaker 1: Why aren't they here caring about these issues? Why aren't

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Speaker 1: they standing up and offering opinions or offering support. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about ways that they can help. Um, Why is

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Speaker 1: it only just the people that do research and the

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Speaker 1: people that run the conservation organizations and you know a

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Speaker 1: select group of people that manages companies and you know

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Speaker 1: a handful of hunters. Where where were more people? I

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Speaker 1: think this is this is really some important ship that

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Speaker 1: was being talked about, and I don't think people were

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Speaker 1: stepping up to be a part of it. And I

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Speaker 1: and I put the I understand what the general hunting

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Speaker 1: public gets tough to get to work, it's tough to

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Speaker 1: you know, pay the whatever that there was, you know,

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Speaker 1: some amount of money that costs to go to the summit,

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Speaker 1: which was you know, it wasn't like twenty bucks, it

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Speaker 1: was like a hundred bucks or a hundred fifty bucks.

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Speaker 1: Or something like that. UM. So it's not like a

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Speaker 1: cheap thing. So I understand that the average guy or

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Speaker 1: girl might not be able to come, although I hope

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Speaker 1: in the future will be more. There has to be more. Um.

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Speaker 1: But when it comes to these big name people who

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Speaker 1: have some money and they have the time, and their

403
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Speaker 1: their whole livelihood, and they claim their passion is around

404
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Speaker 1: this animal, why aren't they a part of these discussions.

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Speaker 1: Why aren't they sacrifice a little bit, a little bit

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Speaker 1: of time and energy to be a part of the solution.

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Speaker 1: And I personal was very disappointed that. And uh, it's

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Speaker 1: unlikely that any of them are listening. But if any

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Speaker 1: of them are listening, I hope that they would consider

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Speaker 1: the importance of being involved in these things. Because if

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Speaker 1: stuff hits the fan and deer hunting or deer hunting

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Speaker 1: populations or deer hunting regulations or whatever it might be,

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Speaker 1: if those things start going down the drain in some

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Speaker 1: way that they don't see happy about, I guarantee they're

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Speaker 1: gonna be throwing a fit about it and complaining. Lots

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Speaker 1: of people will be, but are they actually taking an

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Speaker 1: active step to be a part of the solution. So far,

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen it not there are some people who

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Speaker 1: are stepping up into gree I don't want to cast

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Speaker 1: the blade on everyone, but I just like to encourage

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Speaker 1: everyone and anyone listening, whether you're in the industry or

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Speaker 1: your celebrity or you're an average guy, you know, be involved.

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Speaker 1: I think is is my main message here. Let's all

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Speaker 1: take a step up ourselves and not just expect someone

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Speaker 1: else to deal with it. Right. And that's the thing,

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Speaker 1: you know. I was at the booth at the A

427
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,879
Speaker 1: T A show. When you have all these the backdrop

428
00:22:56,920 --> 00:22:59,639
Speaker 1: of the booth is all these celebrities are who's who

429
00:22:59,720 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: in the industry saying that they support the natural nashal

430
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 1: Um the nd A, but not actually there to support

431
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,639
Speaker 1: the n d A. Yeah, exactly. There's a lot of

432
00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:13,240
Speaker 1: people who who would you know. I I don't want

433
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: to be too quick to point fingers, because everyone's got

434
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 1: the reasons for whatever. But in general, I'm not I'm

435
00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 1: not seeing a lout of active support from some of

436
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: these people that say they support and I wish that

437
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 1: wasn't the case, and I hope that will change well.

438
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:30,240
Speaker 1: And that's it's not just celebrities either, right, It's all people.

439
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,840
Speaker 1: So that's that's my first rant of what might be

440
00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:35,439
Speaker 1: a lot of rants today because this is one of

441
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 1: those topics where where I am I'm ready to rant,

442
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 1: So get ready for that, Dan, Hey, I'm ready to

443
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 1: rant too, because we're talking politics, policies and problems and

444
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,920
Speaker 1: that stuff that gets people fired up. So so all right,

445
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 1: let's I thought, maybe I'll just start day one. I'll

446
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:53,920
Speaker 1: walk us through some of the different topics of each

447
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:55,679
Speaker 1: day that I remember, and then we can kind of

448
00:23:55,800 --> 00:23:57,480
Speaker 1: dive into each one of those as as you or

449
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 1: I see fit. So the first is part of day one. Right,

450
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 1: we got everyone together in this great, big convention hall,

451
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 1: and the first thing we talked about, we're the state

452
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,640
Speaker 1: of white tails in the state of meal deer in

453
00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,560
Speaker 1: the north, in North America. So I don't think we

454
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:15,960
Speaker 1: need to dive, excuse me, too far into that because

455
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 1: you know, a few podcasts ago, Kip you know, shared

456
00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 1: with us essentially a synopsis of the current state of

457
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,359
Speaker 1: white tails, and he was the speaker who who gave

458
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: this talk at the at the summit as well. So

459
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 1: you and me, I think you know anything. Anyone listening,

460
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 1: they know the bullet points. Um, I'll give a really

461
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 1: quick overview. If you're looking at dear populations and harvest

462
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 1: rates across the country. In some parts of the country,

463
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 1: it's it's normal, it's kind of fine and dandy, and

464
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 1: then in other parts of the country it's getting to

465
00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,000
Speaker 1: like crisis mode. We're seeing some dramatic reductions, UM. More

466
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,879
Speaker 1: dramatic than we've seen in recent history by far. So UM.

467
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 1: Those areas of concern right now. The biggest is the Midwest.

468
00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: So in the Midwest, overall harvest I believe was is

469
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: down twenty scent over the past decade. UM. In some

470
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,120
Speaker 1: states like an Iowa buck harvest UM, or maybe it's

471
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 1: overall harvest down. UM. Gosh, I wish I had these

472
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,840
Speaker 1: numbers in front of me. I should have grabbed the numbers. UM.

473
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: But there's something like a dramatic number of states in

474
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 1: the Midwest are down over harvest. Yeah, there you go,

475
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 1: thank you. UM. So there's a lot of situations like

476
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: that that's causing concern. And as I mentioned at the

477
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: front end, those different things, disease, predation, predators, UM, winters,

478
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:34,680
Speaker 1: habitat loss, a whole bunch of different things are being discussed.

479
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 1: Is what might be the issues related to that. But

480
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 1: those are things that are all causing concern in the

481
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,879
Speaker 1: state of white tails um. And then there's other things,

482
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 1: you know, outside of just the general you know, ah

483
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: well being of white tail populations. There's things that are

484
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:57,119
Speaker 1: affecting you know, deer hunters, so you know, hunting, access um, hunting,

485
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: the perception of hunters and what that means, or the

486
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,960
Speaker 1: non hunting public's uh, you know, voting habits regarding hunting.

487
00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:07,400
Speaker 1: There's some different things late, Like I mentioned habitat loss.

488
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: There's massive amounts of habitat being developed or put into

489
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: production right now at a at a scale that hasn't

490
00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: been seen in a long time. I think nine million

491
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:20,040
Speaker 1: acres in the Midwest were taken out of CRP and

492
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: so as you know, dan c RP is amazing deer

493
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 1: habitat and a ton of it or less decade, a

494
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:30,200
Speaker 1: dramatic amount has been taken out of that habitat and

495
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: put into crops which you know do not provide quality

496
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,239
Speaker 1: habitat for deer most of the year. So that's been

497
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 1: a huge thing that's affecting deer across states like Iowa

498
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 1: and the Dakotas and places like that where there's tons

499
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: of ground being put into corn or different things like that.

500
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: So a whole bunch of things like that are causing

501
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: some concerns within the white tailed world recently, past decade,

502
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: really the past handful of years is when you know,

503
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 1: you and me and most of the people have been

504
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 1: noticing these things as far as meal deer really quickly.

505
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: They had a number of things occur in the mule

506
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,439
Speaker 1: deer world with like the late nineties that caused a

507
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: lot of deer population crashes, and they really haven't recovered

508
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:10,200
Speaker 1: much since then, so they've been kind of been dealing

509
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: with an ongoing prices of sorts within the mule deer world.

510
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:16,680
Speaker 1: That is still an issue now. And so now that

511
00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: the National Deer Lines has been created, we're working on

512
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: behalf of all deer, so we're as a larger deer

513
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,080
Speaker 1: community will be hopefully trying to help what the Meal

514
00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: Deer Federation Foundation has been battling for the past twenty

515
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,120
Speaker 1: thirty years. But that's a big thing we talked about.

516
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:33,719
Speaker 1: Did one I know that when I went to Nebraska

517
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,640
Speaker 1: this past year to hunt mule deer and antelope and

518
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:40,120
Speaker 1: and white tail that I got, I did a little

519
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:44,000
Speaker 1: research and and they actually opened up more even though

520
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,879
Speaker 1: the numbers were not good enough to sustain. You know,

521
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,160
Speaker 1: they wanted to kill as many white tails in specific

522
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: areas as possible to allow the mule deer to come

523
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,480
Speaker 1: back into that area because some something about just the

524
00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: way they are. White tails tend to be more aggressive

525
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: and can push mule deer out of specific areas. So

526
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:07,560
Speaker 1: that's one. That's one example. Yeah, yeah, that was one

527
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,920
Speaker 1: of the examples they talked about two. In general, it

528
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,240
Speaker 1: seems like, you know, mule deer are just much more

529
00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: susceptible to habitat loss and in you know, increased competition

530
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 1: from from other species, whether it's white tails or elk

531
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: um and a whole bunch of different things have have

532
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:26,040
Speaker 1: made mule deer um. It's made the last years a

533
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: challenge from meal deer. So that's a topic for another podcast,

534
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 1: for another episode. UM. But the next topic of conversation

535
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: is a big debate over the last few years, and

536
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 1: that's captive deer. There was a panel discussion about what

537
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: was called the captive servant industry, which I felt was

538
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,320
Speaker 1: the PC way of talking about high fenced deer farming

539
00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:56,719
Speaker 1: and breeding. UM and this panel involved, uh and evenly

540
00:28:56,800 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 1: split group of people. UM it represent It was a

541
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,320
Speaker 1: handful people from the deer breeding side of things. It

542
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: was a biologist. And then there was I'm gonna get

543
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: this wrong, I'm I'm not prepared with my notes, um,

544
00:29:09,360 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: but the president of the North American Deer Farmers Association

545
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: I believe, I think that was his title, Sean Schaefer UM.

546
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: And then there was a ah, a representative from the

547
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 1: Southeast Deer Disease or something along those lines. There's a

548
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: guy related, there's a disease expert. There was a guy

549
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 1: that was a member of the board or a member

550
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: of association for the deer farming. There was another biologist

551
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 1: that had sound like he was from Texas and it

552
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:39,280
Speaker 1: was involved in that industry. And then there was another

553
00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: UM person who was representing Texans for our Hunting Heritage

554
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: or something along those lines, and she was speaking on

555
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: behalf of reform in the deer captain deer industry, so

556
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: against high fence canned hunting for the most part. UM.

557
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: So there's four different people, and I was expecting, you know,

558
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: for the most part, most of the people that I've

559
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: assumed are part of the National Deer alliance, and I

560
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,920
Speaker 1: think if you talk to most of the average deer

561
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: hunters outside of the far South and like Texas, most

562
00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: of us, most people are not in favor of high

563
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: fence hunting and a lot of these deer breeding facilities

564
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: and things where there's you know, this all this genetic

565
00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: mutation and these monster deer that are then shot and

566
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,480
Speaker 1: pens and stuff. Um. So I was expecting some pretty

567
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: strong debates and UM, I was expecting a little bit

568
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: of some fireworks and it really kicked off. Um. There

569
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: was a facilitator for the panel discussion. He kind of

570
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: kicked it off by saying, you know, we're all going

571
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: to be acting respectful here. We're all going to be um.

572
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 1: You know, we're gonna act like adults. We're not. We're

573
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: gonna treat each other ladies and gentlemen, and we expect

574
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: everyone here to be treated that way. So it was

575
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: kind of set up like, yikes, this could get feisty. Um,

576
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: but it didn't really ever get there, and in general,

577
00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: I felt like we got sidetracked. So the leading speaker

578
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: was this gentleman Sean Shaffer from the Like I said,

579
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,600
Speaker 1: I think it's the North American deer Farmers Association, and

580
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: he spoke about chronic wasting disease, which is a big

581
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 1: concern for a lot of people in the deer hunting community.

582
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:13,920
Speaker 1: And he talked about some of the different research and

583
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 1: experiences that that have been looked into from their side

584
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 1: of the quote unquote or no pun intended on their

585
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: set offence, UM, And really I felt like his he

586
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: he opened up the discussion, and by leading this whole

587
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: discussion down the path of talking about c w D,

588
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: it kind of tainted the whole discussion. The whole debate

589
00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 1: really ended up just being about c w D and

590
00:31:38,960 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 1: if c w D is being actively transmitted to wild

591
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:49,239
Speaker 1: populations by virtue of high fenced captive herds UM. And

592
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: so really a big part of the conversation was just

593
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: Sean Shaeffer sharing, you know, their side, it's view, and

594
00:31:56,040 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: then this other gentleman, Um John Fisher, I believe, sharing

595
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 1: the view from a more scientific basis on the the

596
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,120
Speaker 1: non high fence side, talking about the real concerns that

597
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: he has UM and that there you know, various experts

598
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 1: have about you know, the risk that c w D

599
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: poses to high fence or two native herbs. And then

600
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,000
Speaker 1: it kind of went back and forth back and forth

601
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,480
Speaker 1: on that and just lots of like semantics. UM. I

602
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: really thought there needed to be a greater conversation about

603
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 1: the ethics of what's going on here and how that's

604
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,320
Speaker 1: going to impact all deer hunters, regardless of if you know,

605
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: we participate in high fence facilities, are hunting um In

606
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,000
Speaker 1: the one representative, Jenny um from the Texans for Protecting

607
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:47,000
Speaker 1: Our Hunting Heritage UM her her main point was just

608
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: that that there are some very serious concerns from a

609
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,160
Speaker 1: public perception standpoint, because I think the most recent survey

610
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:58,959
Speaker 1: show that of Americans are in support in general of hunting,

611
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: but when we're asked about specific reasons for hunting, So

612
00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:06,840
Speaker 1: when we ask for something like trophy hunting, it plummets

613
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,960
Speaker 1: to less than people are in support of that. And

614
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 1: then if you ask for canned hunting, it's I mean

615
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: it's minuscule. I mean almost no one would be in

616
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: support of that. But the issue you know that I've

617
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: seen herds that when people see a canned hunt or

618
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:22,200
Speaker 1: it's talked about in the media or something somebody talks

619
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: about that, it's that that just is hunting. That's in

620
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: their eyes that's although that's what all hunters do, That's

621
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: that's what these people are doing. No way can we

622
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: support that, noation, Mark and Danby, I'll go out there

623
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 1: and shoot dear. They're they're just raising these giant, nasty

624
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: bucks and fences and shooting them like you know, ducks

625
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: in a barrel or fishing a barrel. UM. And so

626
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 1: you know, my big concern here is that if we're

627
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: not distancing ourselves, and I have a very strong stance

628
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: ons I'm very much against these captive deer breeding facilities

629
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,960
Speaker 1: where they're genetically and selectively breeding these deer for mega

630
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,920
Speaker 1: rats and raising them like livestock and then selling them

631
00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:00,880
Speaker 1: off to the highest bidder to be shot in some

632
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:04,680
Speaker 1: small enclosure. That's not hunting. That's not representative of what

633
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 1: I love and what you love, and what deer hunters

634
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:11,880
Speaker 1: out there you know, are passionate about UM. And I

635
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,279
Speaker 1: have very strong concerns about what it means for the

636
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:17,840
Speaker 1: public perception and also those very strong disease concerns that

637
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 1: you know I mentioned earlier. So my super high level

638
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:23,719
Speaker 1: opinion on the whole debate was that I wish we

639
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,239
Speaker 1: talked more about that. I wish we hadn't talked so

640
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 1: much just about you know, does this disease do this

641
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 1: or not? Because it got bogged down on that, and

642
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:33,879
Speaker 1: I thought there were bigger issues. Um, and I bet

643
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 1: you no one from the from the captive deer industry,

644
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:40,880
Speaker 1: you know, stepped up and said, hey, let's let me

645
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 1: talk because they were there. I had a feeling to

646
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,160
Speaker 1: just be there, so there was some kind of representation.

647
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 1: They were prepared if the if the you know, the

648
00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: ball was put in their court, so to speak. But

649
00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 1: why would they bring it up if it wasn't brought up?

650
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,560
Speaker 1: You know what I mean? Yeah, I think, um, yeah,

651
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: and I know, I know, you know, there's gonna be

652
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 1: people listening, you know that that have hunted high fence

653
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 1: enclosures and and maybe it's you know, it's a twenty

654
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: thousand acre enclosure and it's very much like free range

655
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: and they're not I'm not gonna sit here and say

656
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 1: that I understand everyone's situation, and I've never been a

657
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: part of that, so I'm not going to try to

658
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:23,120
Speaker 1: judge everyone, but I will very strongly and confidently say that,

659
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: you know, the freak mutation slept a breeding, I'm against

660
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:30,600
Speaker 1: that and I'm very much against the very small enclosures

661
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 1: or where they have a deer in a pen raised

662
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: to be a giant and then they release him in

663
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: then within an hour or fifteen minutes or a day

664
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: or two, then they send a hunter out into the

665
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,480
Speaker 1: hunter acre pen and then shoot him. That's just in

666
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: my personal opinion, that's that's not hunting, and I am

667
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 1: personally not in support of that. Um So, you know,

668
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: I think the representative from the deer farmers world, I

669
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,480
Speaker 1: think he. I think they were smart and steering the

670
00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 1: conversation just towards like a tip for tat semantics discussion

671
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:00,479
Speaker 1: about c w D, and they kind of it away

672
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,000
Speaker 1: from getting to those other those other parts of the

673
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,120
Speaker 1: conversation which I think are harder for them to depend

674
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: or to defend what what specifically. And I'm gonna play

675
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: Devil's advocate here for a second, because let's say a

676
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 1: giant pin down in Texas or in any other state. Hell,

677
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 1: it could be next to your next to your hunting property.

678
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: And let's take disease out of the out of the

679
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:29,120
Speaker 1: equation for a second, how does that affect you as

680
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: a hunter. So if disease out of the equation. And

681
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,640
Speaker 1: if this is just a are we talking like a

682
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,320
Speaker 1: big it is? Let's say what who cares what the

683
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 1: size is. Let's say it is. You know, you got

684
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,680
Speaker 1: one to your left and it's three thousand acres and

685
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 1: one to your right, and it's a hundred acres where

686
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:52,000
Speaker 1: they have a stable. They raised the buck and they

687
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: let it into a hundred acres and the guy shoot

688
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: it with a rifle. Okay, So here's my other than

689
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: the risk of disease. Here's my two major qualms of

690
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: that um. Number one, the North American model of wildlife conservation.

691
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 1: This is like the the bedrock philosophy that all of

692
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: hunting and conservation in America is based on. This is

693
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: developed back in the early twentieth century, al right, like

694
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: the likes of Theodore Roosevelt and these guys that were

695
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:23,959
Speaker 1: the forefathers of what we're doing here. And they talked

696
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 1: about the fact that there's a few basic principles that

697
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 1: should guide game management and hunting and conservationist country. And

698
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: one of those big, important, unique principles which makes the

699
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:40,240
Speaker 1: United States and Canada for to a degree, completely different

700
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,200
Speaker 1: than anywhere else in the world, like Europe. You know,

701
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: in Europe, the everyman, regular people, they don't get to

702
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,760
Speaker 1: hunt very much because deer is considered wildlife is considered

703
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:52,360
Speaker 1: private property. So it used to be a thing of

704
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 1: just the rich, the elite, um, the big elites. The

705
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: people had a lot of money in land, they got

706
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,879
Speaker 1: to hunt their deer that they owned on their private land,

707
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 1: and then everyone else that didn't own that land had

708
00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: no wildlife to hunt. They couldn't go on these other

709
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 1: places to harvest a deer because that would be taking

710
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: private property. So what was very different about here in

711
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: America is that the wildlife was deemed to be in

712
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:17,840
Speaker 1: the public trust. So wildlife can never be private property.

713
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: A deer on property that you might own a piece

714
00:38:20,719 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 1: of land in but that wildlife, that deer is public.

715
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: No one can own that deer. And that's been, you know,

716
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 1: one of the absolute better, act most important parts of

717
00:38:29,920 --> 00:38:31,680
Speaker 1: what it means to be an American and a hunter

718
00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 1: and to be part of his way of life. Now,

719
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 1: when you take you take a fence, and you put

720
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,920
Speaker 1: a fence around your hundred acres or even your twenty acres,

721
00:38:41,600 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 1: and now you take that deer herd, and now you

722
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 1: start selling that deer herd you are essentially taking that

723
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:49,600
Speaker 1: deer out of the public trust. That deer is no

724
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,520
Speaker 1: longer available to me or available to be viewed by me,

725
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: or whatever it might be. And now you're putting a

726
00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: price tag on it, and then you're using it as

727
00:38:56,760 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 1: private property for yourself. Um. Whether that happen, you know,

728
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:05,240
Speaker 1: fifty years ago or yesterday, Um, there are significant issues

729
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 1: there from a basic principles of the North American model.

730
00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:14,840
Speaker 1: What's the difference between that and an outfitter who owns

731
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:19,520
Speaker 1: two thousand some acres low fence? It is is highly

732
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:24,480
Speaker 1: highly managed. So, I mean the biggest thing is that

733
00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,240
Speaker 1: those deer aren't private. They don't have the only access

734
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:31,600
Speaker 1: to it. They are not confined to a place. And now,

735
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:33,839
Speaker 1: yes they make people make money off of those deer

736
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 1: to a degree, but it is not a private locked

737
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: in set. These deer are in this one place. They

738
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,719
Speaker 1: can't move, they can't cross the boundaries. Um, it's blurry, right,

739
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:48,000
Speaker 1: there's some gray, there's some some shades of gray there. Um.

740
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: And that's something that raises questions. But I think when

741
00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:52,799
Speaker 1: you have a high fence, when you take these deer

742
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:55,480
Speaker 1: completely within your possession and then you start selling them

743
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,320
Speaker 1: off like livestock, managing and selling them off like livestock.

744
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: That raises significant, you know, just basic principal issues. The

745
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:06,400
Speaker 1: second issue then goes back to what I said earlier,

746
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: which is the fact that high fence breeding facilities and

747
00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: canned hunting is going to be a significant problem for

748
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 1: fair chase, regular hunters like me because of what outsiders

749
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,840
Speaker 1: will think. Um, you know what. We'll get to us

750
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:24,880
Speaker 1: in a second. But the two of the top five

751
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:29,719
Speaker 1: issues that were that were identified at the summit, one

752
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,239
Speaker 1: was hunter recruitment and one was the public perception of

753
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 1: hunting and what that will mean for you know, how

754
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: people will vote, and how people will treat hunters, and

755
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:38,479
Speaker 1: how what that will mean for the future of hunting.

756
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:41,160
Speaker 1: So those are two of the top five issues. If

757
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: canned hunting, you know, where we have these bucks that

758
00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: live in a pen and then are shot the next day.

759
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,399
Speaker 1: If that's something that non hunters ce that number one

760
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 1: significantly negatively impacts the perception of hunting, and number two

761
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,840
Speaker 1: that turns away potential new hunters. That's not something that

762
00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:04,840
Speaker 1: that guy living in New York City that wants to

763
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: start killing his own food is going to see him like, oh, yeah,

764
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 1: I want to try that. Hell no, that's going to

765
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,040
Speaker 1: turn off a lot of people. So right off the bat,

766
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,920
Speaker 1: if those are two important issues that that the Deer

767
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 1: Alliance in the Summer has agreed upon, I don't see

768
00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: how that they can be in support of something like

769
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:23,280
Speaker 1: canned hunting um or some of these you know, freak

770
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 1: breeding practices. Do you think that, and I'm spitballing here,

771
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:35,560
Speaker 1: do you think that that a high fence company should

772
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: you know, you know, if we're if we're so concerned

773
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: with what the public thinks non us think of high

774
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: fence quote unquote hunting, do you think that there could

775
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:52,160
Speaker 1: potentially be in the future rules put in place to

776
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 1: where a high fence facility could not say it could

777
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:01,399
Speaker 1: say we are we are not a hunting facility. And

778
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: you know, have you know, put in rules and regulations

779
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:08,680
Speaker 1: to tell, you know, everybody we are not an official

780
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: hunting We don't do that, you know, we are you know, basically,

781
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 1: call them call them out and tell them what they

782
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:15,880
Speaker 1: really are. Right, this is a shooting facility, This is

783
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: a shoe or something along those lines. To let them

784
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:22,879
Speaker 1: continue to make their money, which is what they want

785
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:26,440
Speaker 1: to do. Right that the high fence industry, in my opinion,

786
00:42:26,520 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 1: is all about making money. And that's when when you

787
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:32,239
Speaker 1: take that out of the equation, then it's really it's

788
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: not I mean it, it's a huge deal. That's all

789
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: they're concerned about. It's a business to them as opposed

790
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:41,439
Speaker 1: to a resource like what me and you are used to. So,

791
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:46,799
Speaker 1: you know, getting getting it to where you know, we

792
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 1: do not represent those kind of companies. We like the

793
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: NDA does not representing those kind of companies. We don't

794
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,360
Speaker 1: do this. We don't do this. They're on their own.

795
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:57,879
Speaker 1: You know. If you're gonna think about hunting, don't think

796
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:01,440
Speaker 1: about them, think about us. Have a mission statement and

797
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 1: all you know, and all those things to where we're

798
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,320
Speaker 1: not we're not trying to cut somebody out of the equation.

799
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: But yet say we are in no way associated with you,

800
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:17,799
Speaker 1: and we feel that you do not represent hunters in

801
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,399
Speaker 1: the United States. Yeah, I think, Um, I think one

802
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: one thing I'll say before I dive into that, just

803
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 1: to clarify here is everything that I'm saying here is

804
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: my own personal Mark Kenyon opinion. It's not it's not

805
00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 1: representative the National Deer Alliance, it's not representative of any

806
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,840
Speaker 1: companies that I know or that would work with or anything.

807
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,240
Speaker 1: This is just me make spitball on my own personal opinion,

808
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:41,200
Speaker 1: and we're all, you know, we all have our own opinion.

809
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 1: So that's said to your question, dan Um, I think

810
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:48,840
Speaker 1: that's something that was definitely talked about, and that was

811
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,120
Speaker 1: Those were some of the major concerns that came out

812
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: of this discussion. Because after this whole panel discussion UM,

813
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 1: the next day was when everyone the summit voted on

814
00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,600
Speaker 1: their top issues. And another of the top five issues

815
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,800
Speaker 1: um I mentioned already that hunter recruitment and public perception

816
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,439
Speaker 1: where two of those five. Another of those top five

817
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: was just this the captive deer industry. So UM we

818
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: had conversations that on day three about what potential action

819
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 1: MS there could be UM to address this issue of

820
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:20,319
Speaker 1: the captive deer industry and what implications are on deer

821
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:22,400
Speaker 1: and deer hunters across the country. And some of the

822
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,360
Speaker 1: things that we talked about were just what you said,

823
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 1: like trying to institute some kind of common terminology. You know,

824
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:33,919
Speaker 1: what do we call Do we reference these canned hunts

825
00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:37,000
Speaker 1: as hunts or can we you know, qualify them as

826
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,719
Speaker 1: something different shoots or whatever. There's a whole bunch of

827
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 1: conversations about different semantics in that regards. You know, can

828
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,200
Speaker 1: we put different regulations on them? Can we make sure

829
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: that's spoken about in different ways so that it doesn't

830
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: appear to be is associated with hunting, with real hunting. UM.

831
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:55,960
Speaker 1: There's a lot of things like that. But I unfortunately

832
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,520
Speaker 1: wasn't able to be a part of that part of

833
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: the discussion I was doing. I interviewing someone outside of

834
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 1: the UM, outside of the main convention hall for that

835
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,120
Speaker 1: when they talked about that one issue. UM. But what

836
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,399
Speaker 1: I what I would have loved to see someone say,

837
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,680
Speaker 1: which nobody did say, was what you just what you

838
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:16,160
Speaker 1: just brought up being us distancing ourselves from that part

839
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 1: of the quote unquote industry and saying, hey, that's not hunting,

840
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:23,240
Speaker 1: that's not representative of deer and deer hunters across the country,

841
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: and we want to make sure that's something that is

842
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:30,640
Speaker 1: clearly understood by everyone. UM. In my personal opinion, that

843
00:45:30,680 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 1: would be the right choice exactly. And that's what I

844
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:38,840
Speaker 1: Although you know, although we do not from an ethics standpoint,

845
00:45:38,880 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 1: we do not consider that hunting. We consider that considering

846
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:47,040
Speaker 1: that basically livestock harvesting, you know, taking a cow and

847
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: shooting it in the head and then cutting it up

848
00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: and eating it. Right, Because that's my opinion of what

849
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 1: it is. But I also from a from an economic standpoint,

850
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 1: I feel that and I know this is where the

851
00:45:58,680 --> 00:46:01,919
Speaker 1: line gets kind of gray. But everybody has the right

852
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: to start a business and make money and make them happy,

853
00:46:05,960 --> 00:46:08,360
Speaker 1: you know that that pursuit of happiness, so to speak.

854
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:15,719
Speaker 1: And if you're if if you're not hurting anybody, then

855
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: I feel that you should be able to continue to

856
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,560
Speaker 1: do what you want to do. But asterix here, if

857
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: you're what you're doing plays a direct threat through disease

858
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:30,240
Speaker 1: to our natural resource, shut them down, get them out. Yeah, yeah,

859
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:31,839
Speaker 1: I mean to your point, there's a there's a lot

860
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,120
Speaker 1: of gray ers, and I don't you know, neither of

861
00:46:34,200 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 1: us can claim that we understand it from all sides

862
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 1: of view. Um, you know, from all points of view.

863
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 1: So I'm you know, we're offering our perspective on this.

864
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: But I think you're absolutely right. I think, um, you know,

865
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 1: when the implications of what's happening there starts impacting the

866
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: greater public resource or by virtue of you know, perception

867
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 1: and impacting other people's opinions and causes you know, greater

868
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 1: harm to everyone. That's when I start getting concerned about it, um,

869
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:02,840
Speaker 1: And that's why I have these concerns, So their concerns,

870
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,560
Speaker 1: that's my opinion. That's where I wish things had gone.

871
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:07,480
Speaker 1: At least I wish that discussion was had. I didn't

872
00:47:07,480 --> 00:47:10,520
Speaker 1: think that we that it went quite into that as

873
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:12,919
Speaker 1: much as I maybe would I have liked to see.

874
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: But you know, we'll see there's um you know, if

875
00:47:16,719 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: I'm looking right here at the action items. So what

876
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,120
Speaker 1: happens was we talked about each one of the major

877
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: five issues, which I'll get to the rest of them

878
00:47:24,239 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: a second, um. But then on that final day of

879
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 1: the summit, then the larger group, you know, brought up

880
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,720
Speaker 1: different potential action ms that we could take to address

881
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:34,560
Speaker 1: that issue. So UM, I'll just read off the ones

882
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:38,359
Speaker 1: that were suggested. When it comes to the captain deer industry, UM,

883
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:41,440
Speaker 1: one was to advocate to ensure that deer are classified

884
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: as wildlife and not livestock. That's been a debate that's

885
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 1: been happening in a bunch of states over the last year. Dan,

886
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen any of the news

887
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:51,080
Speaker 1: posted on the National Deer Alliance Facebook page or emails

888
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,560
Speaker 1: or anything like that. But a number of states, like

889
00:47:53,600 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: in Indiana, I think, Missouri, North Carolina, West Virginia, they've

890
00:47:57,640 --> 00:48:01,280
Speaker 1: been debating should dear be classified wildlife or his livestock,

891
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:03,320
Speaker 1: and then by virtue of that, should they be managed

892
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 1: by the fish and gayment agencies or should they be

893
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:09,280
Speaker 1: managed by the Department of Agriculture UM And that's crazy,

894
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: And in specifically for Missouri, I think that captive elk

895
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:22,319
Speaker 1: are under the Agriculture and deer are under the um

896
00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 1: D n R Department of Natural Resources. So it just

897
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 1: doesn't make sense why one animal is under one agency

898
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 1: and the other animals under the other agency when the

899
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:36,719
Speaker 1: goal is kind of the same thing. Yeah. Yeah, So

900
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:38,839
Speaker 1: there's there's a lot of debates going on about that.

901
00:48:38,920 --> 00:48:40,560
Speaker 1: So one of the major things talked about was, like

902
00:48:41,200 --> 00:48:43,440
Speaker 1: most everyone who talked at the event said that they

903
00:48:43,480 --> 00:48:47,280
Speaker 1: believe that they should be classified and managers wildlife. UM.

904
00:48:47,360 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: We talked more there's more discussion about, you know, partnering

905
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: with trying to get more disease research, trying to better

906
00:48:52,320 --> 00:48:56,400
Speaker 1: understand what the disease implications are. UM. There was a

907
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 1: live talk about developing standard list of terminology to be

908
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 1: used regarding the captive deer industry, UM, development of best

909
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:06,440
Speaker 1: management practices regarding you know, trying to set some kind

910
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:09,319
Speaker 1: like you said, some kind of regulations for these UM facilities.

911
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 1: You know, when it comes to how long these animals

912
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:14,239
Speaker 1: need to be released before they can be hunted, how

913
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 1: what kind of chemicals can be used on them, all

914
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:18,480
Speaker 1: sort of different things like that, which in general is

915
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:21,200
Speaker 1: just a messy thing. But they're though, trying to regulate,

916
00:49:21,360 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: regulate that more UM partner with more NGOs non uh NGOs,

917
00:49:27,000 --> 00:49:30,960
Speaker 1: that foster fair chase and welfare. UM talking about the

918
00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 1: fact that you know, wildlife agencies should be managing the animals,

919
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: and that state departments of agg conducting surveys regarding opinions

920
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:40,239
Speaker 1: on the captive service industry to better understand what the

921
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 1: wider population thinks and believes. UM advocating to make sure

922
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 1: that hunters UM better understand what's going on in these facilities.

923
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:51,719
Speaker 1: A hope, bunch of different things like that. So there's

924
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:53,560
Speaker 1: a bunch of little ideas and stuff like that. But

925
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,759
Speaker 1: it wasn't like major major UM action was discussed. So

926
00:49:57,800 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know where it's all going.

927
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:03,000
Speaker 1: It's a sticky subject, lots of opinions. Everyone usually has

928
00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 1: a very strong opinion on it. Um. But it was

929
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: it was one of those big things that we talked about, right,

930
00:50:09,239 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: but I worry we were talking a lot about this,

931
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: so um so real quick the other major issues, which

932
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: was the day two was really focused on, was talking

933
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:20,000
Speaker 1: about the other top issues and then voting on what

934
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,080
Speaker 1: were the most important ones and then brainstorm stormy action.

935
00:50:23,120 --> 00:50:26,080
Speaker 1: I am so um. A couple of quick things about

936
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:28,920
Speaker 1: those other top issues that were discussed. On the front end,

937
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:31,200
Speaker 1: there were some speakers, so there was a speaker that

938
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 1: discussed disease some of some of the different um things

939
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,320
Speaker 1: happening when it comes to disease and dear. There was

940
00:50:37,360 --> 00:50:40,879
Speaker 1: a speaker that discussed the impact of predators under there

941
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 1: was someone who spoke about hunter and wildlife agency relations,

942
00:50:44,600 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: which is definitely a challenge of times. You know how

943
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 1: regular average joe hunters and the DNR or Department of

944
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 1: Fishing Game you know, interface and get along. Um. And

945
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: then there was a talk about hunter recruitment and how

946
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 1: can we get more people into the hunting ranks and um,

947
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:00,600
Speaker 1: you know and enjoy what we do. So there's a

948
00:51:00,600 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 1: whole bunch of speakers discussing all those things. Um the

949
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: the cliff Thoats version of each of those talks. When

950
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:10,759
Speaker 1: it comes to disease, chronic waste and disease is a

951
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 1: scary one with lots of unknowns. It's popping up more

952
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:18,920
Speaker 1: and more places. There's strong beliefs that the transportation up

953
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 1: captive deer cross states and all over the place is

954
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:25,440
Speaker 1: you know, causing a lot of this spread. Because what

955
00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: happens is when one of these animals gets infected, CWD

956
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 1: is transferred by virtue of contact with some kind of

957
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 1: fluid um. So it's it's a pry on, it's a melt,

958
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:36,880
Speaker 1: it's a messed up pray on, which is like I

959
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 1: think some portion of a protein that you know, if

960
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 1: it's on the ground of deer feeding on the ground

961
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 1: and there's saliva is eating like a pile of corn,

962
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,680
Speaker 1: and there's wonder eating that pile of corn. Any other

963
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,040
Speaker 1: deer that comes and eats near that one spot can

964
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: pick up that pray on and then become infected themselves.

965
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:52,719
Speaker 1: So then when you have these deer moving all over

966
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 1: the place and then being put in these captive facilities

967
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 1: where all they're all eating out the same little bucket

968
00:51:57,160 --> 00:52:00,239
Speaker 1: or whatever. There's a high rate of transfer, which is

969
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 1: why one of the big reasons and the concerns that

970
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:04,880
Speaker 1: people are worried about what might happen with that industry.

971
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 1: So that was the big things with c w D.

972
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,280
Speaker 1: Lots of questions around that. UM Dr grant Wood's actually

973
00:52:11,520 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: um had a bunch of questions about that. He wasn't speaking,

974
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:16,040
Speaker 1: but he stood up and asked them questions to the

975
00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 1: people on that earlier panel I talked about talking about

976
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 1: the fact that there is a way to test for

977
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:25,479
Speaker 1: c w D on a deer and you can see

978
00:52:25,480 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 1: if it's positive. You can get a positive, but there's

979
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:32,360
Speaker 1: no negative results, so it's either positive or undetermined, Like

980
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:36,359
Speaker 1: you can't verify if a deer does not have it UM,

981
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: so they don't. They aren't even able to properly test

982
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:40,719
Speaker 1: these animals yet, so there's just lots of unknowns. So

983
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 1: that's the big thing with c w D. UM. The

984
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:47,719
Speaker 1: other major disease is hemorrhagic disease, which is an umbrella

985
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:51,400
Speaker 1: name for e h D, which is episodic hemorrhadic disease

986
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 1: and the blue tongue virus. They essentially have the same symptoms.

987
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:56,879
Speaker 1: So when you say E h D, usually people are

988
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: thinking of the same thing as you know, Dan and

989
00:52:58,800 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 1: most everyone listening. Um. You know, within the last five

990
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 1: years two thousand seven, two thousand and twelve, we had

991
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: those huge outbreaks across a lot of different states, particularly

992
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 1: states like Michigan, Iowa, Illinois, UM. And that's where these deer,

993
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:14,080
Speaker 1: you know, end up finding lots of dead deer in

994
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:15,799
Speaker 1: near water sources because they get a fever and they

995
00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:17,439
Speaker 1: go there and then that's where they end up dying.

996
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 1: So the big takeaway with h D or HD is

997
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:25,680
Speaker 1: that it's it's moving north UM. And the belief is

998
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:28,440
Speaker 1: that it can't be proven yet, but it just seems

999
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 1: like it is moving north due to changes in climate.

1000
00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:37,239
Speaker 1: Because the big agent of transfer for HD is a midge,

1001
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: a little tiny bug that carries the disease, and typically

1002
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:46,560
Speaker 1: UM those when there's droughts, more deer going to go

1003
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 1: to water, the smaller limited sources of water when there's

1004
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:52,759
Speaker 1: a drought, and that's where the midges are, and so

1005
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:56,800
Speaker 1: transfer becomes much more rapids. You get much more intense

1006
00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:58,640
Speaker 1: outbreaks of the disease, which is like what we had

1007
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:00,959
Speaker 1: in Michigan in two thousand twelve. We had the worst

1008
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 1: draw we've had a long time, and then that comestided

1009
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 1: with this massive outbreak of HD. So that was another

1010
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 1: big discussion of him. That's a that's the headline for disease. Now.

1011
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,800
Speaker 1: Before we get into the next topic, though, we first

1012
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,839
Speaker 1: need to pause briefly to thank our friends at sick

1013
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:19,399
Speaker 1: Gear for their support of the Wire to Hunt podcast. Now.

1014
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:21,520
Speaker 1: Last week I shared with you guys the story of

1015
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 1: how I discovered Sica, and since that point I've been

1016
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 1: able to use a lot of different pieces of sick

1017
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:28,719
Speaker 1: of gear as I've chased white tails, turkeys, and elk

1018
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 1: across the country and over these past five years or so.

1019
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:35,040
Speaker 1: One of my favorite things about their gear is just

1020
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:38,400
Speaker 1: the attention to detail. You know, just like I'm obsessed

1021
00:54:38,400 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: with the details when it comes to hunting white tails,

1022
00:54:40,880 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: SICA is obsessed about the details when designing the clothes

1023
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: we hunted. You know, take for example, their fanatic jacket

1024
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,360
Speaker 1: and the little added detail of placing specific pockets for

1025
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,120
Speaker 1: a range finder and grunt tube on your chest. And

1026
00:54:53,160 --> 00:54:55,320
Speaker 1: that grunt tube even has a little you know, mesh

1027
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:57,640
Speaker 1: bottom so that if you don't even take it out

1028
00:54:57,680 --> 00:54:59,360
Speaker 1: of the pocket and just bend your head down to

1029
00:54:59,360 --> 00:55:02,439
Speaker 1: blow on that g that sound can get out. Or

1030
00:55:02,480 --> 00:55:04,640
Speaker 1: in their new fanatic Cooty, it's got a built in

1031
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 1: face mask that pulls out from inside the hood and

1032
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: actually flip over hand mets. It's kind of hard to describe,

1033
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 1: but they're they're awesome, you know, Over and over I

1034
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:16,000
Speaker 1: see examples of this, just these little things they add

1035
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:20,440
Speaker 1: to a product that make a big difference and everything,

1036
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:22,560
Speaker 1: you know, every tiny aspect of a piece of gear

1037
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:24,640
Speaker 1: that they put out there, it's thought through all the

1038
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:27,319
Speaker 1: way and it just shows. And when it comes to

1039
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,680
Speaker 1: chasing big mature white tails, I'm looking for every advantage

1040
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:33,160
Speaker 1: I can get, even when it comes to the little

1041
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 1: details in my clothing, and that is exactly why you

1042
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:40,799
Speaker 1: stick a gear. But now back to the show and

1043
00:55:40,880 --> 00:55:45,520
Speaker 1: the next topic, um any questions on the disease stuff time,

1044
00:55:46,280 --> 00:55:48,840
Speaker 1: you know, I just want to make one quick point

1045
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:53,640
Speaker 1: about and this this part portion of the disease transferred

1046
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 1: by you know, taking dear across state lines and high

1047
00:55:56,120 --> 00:56:00,840
Speaker 1: fence should just further the fact that these high fence

1048
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:09,480
Speaker 1: operations need way more regulations and and control of their practice,

1049
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 1: because it is a fact. It's a fact that you

1050
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:16,600
Speaker 1: know that there I shouldn't say a fact, but high

1051
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:22,240
Speaker 1: statistics that that what they're doing is affecting our natural resource.

1052
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 1: The only difference between raising a cow and raising a

1053
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 1: deer to be quote unquote hunted in a high fence

1054
00:56:29,200 --> 00:56:31,960
Speaker 1: is the way it's killed. One by a guy in

1055
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:34,640
Speaker 1: a tree stand with a rifle, the other one in

1056
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:37,399
Speaker 1: a shoot with a you know, a hammer over their head.

1057
00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:41,840
Speaker 1: It's the only difference there. Their selective bread and they're

1058
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:48,040
Speaker 1: they're put into into a cage to shoot. So and

1059
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:52,360
Speaker 1: and the U. S d A has so many guidelines

1060
00:56:52,400 --> 00:56:56,960
Speaker 1: and regulations for hogs, chickens and all these things that

1061
00:56:57,000 --> 00:57:01,200
Speaker 1: when an outbreak, for example in Iowa, uh this year,

1062
00:57:01,280 --> 00:57:05,880
Speaker 1: there was like I want to say, over ten thousand

1063
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 1: turkeys that were killed because one bird tested positive for

1064
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:14,120
Speaker 1: the bird the bird virus, so all these all these

1065
00:57:14,120 --> 00:57:17,520
Speaker 1: birds were wiped out to kind of control that, I

1066
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:20,440
Speaker 1: feel that that's the same stance that needs to happen

1067
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:25,240
Speaker 1: in these in these uh, these high offense operations. Yeah,

1068
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:27,840
Speaker 1: and I don't understand, I know there is regulation of

1069
00:57:27,880 --> 00:57:29,800
Speaker 1: them to some degree. I just don't. I don't know

1070
00:57:29,840 --> 00:57:32,840
Speaker 1: all the details of that. So what I do know

1071
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:34,360
Speaker 1: is that one of the points that was brought up

1072
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:37,160
Speaker 1: in this conversation was that, you know, when it comes

1073
00:57:37,160 --> 00:57:39,160
Speaker 1: to the debate of who should manage these, should it

1074
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 1: be the Department of add or should it be the

1075
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 1: wildlife agencies? Um one person's point. I think it was

1076
00:57:44,200 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 1: someone who represent a wilife agency. I believe he said that, well,

1077
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 1: the wildlife agency they can focus on dear. Dear is

1078
00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:55,360
Speaker 1: the most important resource for wildlife agency, whether it's captive

1079
00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 1: or not. It's it's impacts the overall resource, which is

1080
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 1: the biggest driver for the Department of If the Department

1081
00:58:01,040 --> 00:58:04,080
Speaker 1: ag starts regulating deer, it becomes like the tiniest little

1082
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:08,480
Speaker 1: fish in a huge, huge pond because you've got cattle, pork, chickens, turkeys,

1083
00:58:08,520 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 1: all these massive, massive industries, and the deer aspect of

1084
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:14,480
Speaker 1: that would be a very minor portion of that. And

1085
00:58:14,480 --> 00:58:17,080
Speaker 1: the concern is that if the Department of agg starts

1086
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:19,760
Speaker 1: managing it, that they wouldn't pay it as much attention.

1087
00:58:19,800 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 1: And then that's why a lot of the captive deer

1088
00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:25,480
Speaker 1: advocates want the Department of ad actor to manage it.

1089
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:27,160
Speaker 1: So I don't know. I don't know the details. I

1090
00:58:27,200 --> 00:58:30,880
Speaker 1: don't have that UM perspective. I don't know, but that's

1091
00:58:30,880 --> 00:58:32,560
Speaker 1: one thing to think about, and that's one of the

1092
00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: concerns people have. So that's disease. UM. Predators were another

1093
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:41,960
Speaker 1: big topic. UM. The headline for the predator discussion was

1094
00:58:42,040 --> 00:58:46,040
Speaker 1: just that predator and dear relationships. So the predator prey

1095
00:58:46,120 --> 00:58:50,280
Speaker 1: relationship is complex. It's different everywhere. It's different based on habitats,

1096
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:54,760
Speaker 1: different based on population size, different based on UM a

1097
00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,680
Speaker 1: whole slew of different things. UM. So it's there's no

1098
00:58:57,880 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 1: like one size fits all solution. There's no in size

1099
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:04,080
Speaker 1: fits all like diagnosis. Like in some places, kyote populations

1100
00:59:04,120 --> 00:59:07,120
Speaker 1: aren't really damaging dear hers in some places they are.

1101
00:59:07,160 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 1: In some places, black bears make a huge impact. In

1102
00:59:09,400 --> 00:59:11,920
Speaker 1: some places they don't. UM. So it was it's a

1103
00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:18,280
Speaker 1: complex web of cause and effect relationships that UM. It's

1104
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,120
Speaker 1: list and there's no one size fit saw. It's something

1105
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 1: that needs to be managed, yes, UM. But at the

1106
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:26,200
Speaker 1: same time, it's not something like you have to wipe

1107
00:59:26,200 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 1: out every single predator in the world, because that then

1108
00:59:29,160 --> 00:59:32,720
Speaker 1: knocks out the integrity of an ecosystem too. So the

1109
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:37,080
Speaker 1: ecosystem is so delicate and it can be influenced by

1110
00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:40,880
Speaker 1: the smallest thing. There's a there's a great thing um

1111
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:46,600
Speaker 1: YouTube video called how Wolves Changed Rivers. Yeah, have you

1112
00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:48,600
Speaker 1: seen that. I haven't seen the video, but I've read

1113
00:59:48,640 --> 00:59:52,040
Speaker 1: some articles and some stuff about that. Basically, what it

1114
00:59:52,120 --> 00:59:57,280
Speaker 1: is is they introduced wolves into this area where there

1115
00:59:57,360 --> 01:00:00,480
Speaker 1: was a really big elk population. In the elk, we're

1116
01:00:00,680 --> 01:00:04,120
Speaker 1: eating so much of the natural grasses and in flora

1117
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 1: and fauna and all that stuff to where they were

1118
01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 1: getting sick and they had disease because there's so many

1119
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 1: of them. They introduced wolves, and the wolves started killing

1120
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:15,800
Speaker 1: all these elk and moving them back up into the mountains.

1121
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:21,320
Speaker 1: This this change happened where grass started growing, tree started growing,

1122
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 1: rabbit started coming back, birds started nesting in these trees

1123
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:28,760
Speaker 1: that now started growing, and this whole different ecosystem came

1124
01:00:29,000 --> 01:00:32,280
Speaker 1: which in turned like the river instead of going straight,

1125
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 1: started meandering and slowing down again, back to what they

1126
01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:40,760
Speaker 1: say was a natural type of uh flow for the river.

1127
01:00:41,640 --> 01:00:44,040
Speaker 1: And you know, obviously the elk hunters were mad that

1128
01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 1: they introduced the wolves, and the lovers of the wolves

1129
01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,000
Speaker 1: were mad. That they there was legislation to try to

1130
01:00:49,280 --> 01:00:51,920
Speaker 1: kill more of these wolves and and basically what happened

1131
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:59,120
Speaker 1: is nature fixed itself. Yeah, that's it's a I think

1132
01:00:59,120 --> 01:01:03,240
Speaker 1: the technical terms called it a tropic cascade where where

1133
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:06,040
Speaker 1: the impact of an apex predator, so a top predator,

1134
01:01:06,040 --> 01:01:08,920
Speaker 1: and how it impacts all the other species within an ecosystem.

1135
01:01:08,960 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 1: And what you know, what you said is it will

1136
01:01:12,280 --> 01:01:15,800
Speaker 1: hopefully achieve the natural balance like how things were before

1137
01:01:15,880 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 1: humans start interfering um. And so that seems like a

1138
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:25,240
Speaker 1: ideal place to be. Unfortunately, you know, if you talk

1139
01:01:25,320 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 1: to any different person, they all have disagreements on what

1140
01:01:29,240 --> 01:01:30,880
Speaker 1: they think that's supposed to because how it's how it

1141
01:01:30,880 --> 01:01:33,840
Speaker 1: affects them. So, like you just said, people that you

1142
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 1: know love wolves, are basic wildlife and stuff like that.

1143
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:38,560
Speaker 1: They want to see the wolves brought back and not

1144
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:41,200
Speaker 1: you know, back from extermination where they almost were. And

1145
01:01:41,200 --> 01:01:42,840
Speaker 1: then you've got a lot of hunters who are upset

1146
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,320
Speaker 1: because they're killing at Elk or you know, northern Wisconsin

1147
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 1: and northern Minnesota. Minnesota people hate the wolves because they

1148
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:51,560
Speaker 1: feel like they're killing all the deer um. And this

1149
01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 1: is a topic that I've got a lot of opinions

1150
01:01:53,320 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 1: on it, and again it's one that's probably pissed a

1151
01:01:55,000 --> 01:02:00,360
Speaker 1: lot of people off. But I am a strong believer

1152
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:04,959
Speaker 1: in management, right because when hunters, when when people came

1153
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 1: into North America, or at least Europeans came in North America,

1154
01:02:08,240 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 1: we just in general, you know, knock the whole thing

1155
01:02:11,440 --> 01:02:15,280
Speaker 1: of skew right, we changed everything. Um. And so it's

1156
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 1: never gonna be able to go back to the way

1157
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:19,200
Speaker 1: it was. That's just it's it's maybe it's a nice idea,

1158
01:02:19,280 --> 01:02:20,880
Speaker 1: but it's never gonna go back because we just make

1159
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:24,560
Speaker 1: an impact no matter what humans have impacted it. Um.

1160
01:02:24,600 --> 01:02:27,120
Speaker 1: So there is a there's a My belief is that

1161
01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:30,280
Speaker 1: there is a responsibility to manage it in some way. Um.

1162
01:02:30,320 --> 01:02:32,720
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I personally would like to

1163
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:35,440
Speaker 1: see it managed to to try to someday get back

1164
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:41,120
Speaker 1: to a relatively natural, relatively balanced to some degree state. UM.

1165
01:02:41,200 --> 01:02:47,360
Speaker 1: So for me, I'm not in favor of exterminating predator populations, right.

1166
01:02:47,880 --> 01:02:50,960
Speaker 1: I believe they did need to be managed, though. There

1167
01:02:51,040 --> 01:02:54,320
Speaker 1: has to be some kind of balance, um that is

1168
01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:57,360
Speaker 1: that is created because you're gonna have deer hunters who

1169
01:02:57,400 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 1: are pissed because all the they think all the deer

1170
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 1: gone because of well, um, And I understand that, and

1171
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:03,920
Speaker 1: I wouldn't want to be in that situation either, um.

1172
01:03:04,040 --> 01:03:06,800
Speaker 1: But I also think that there's value to predators on

1173
01:03:06,840 --> 01:03:10,200
Speaker 1: the landscape, and I wouldn't want to be and I

1174
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:14,320
Speaker 1: wouldn't want to go to you know, the rocky mountains

1175
01:03:14,560 --> 01:03:18,160
Speaker 1: and there not be bears or mountain lions or wolves

1176
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:21,240
Speaker 1: or whatever. I wouldn't want to totally sterile ecosystem in

1177
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,280
Speaker 1: the world, um, because that's not naturally there. So that's

1178
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:30,280
Speaker 1: that's my own thoughts. But I agree mother nature is

1179
01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:34,439
Speaker 1: a very lean and an evolution is very lean. There's

1180
01:03:34,480 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 1: no waste, everything has a purpose and everything has its part.

1181
01:03:40,360 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 1: And like you said, when we came in and ruined it,

1182
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:46,720
Speaker 1: all that through everything on a whack, and then it's continued.

1183
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:50,760
Speaker 1: Mother nature is continually trying to adjust to find a balance.

1184
01:03:51,920 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 1: And then when we go in we think that we're

1185
01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:56,640
Speaker 1: better than mother nature, we are not. It's just like

1186
01:03:56,840 --> 01:03:59,520
Speaker 1: a dam in a river, so people can live next

1187
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:02,160
Speaker 1: to the way, that's not how Nature's supposed to do it.

1188
01:04:02,200 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 1: There's there's floodplanes for a reason. And I just feel that,

1189
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:09,080
Speaker 1: you know, you can kind of relate a damn to

1190
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:11,960
Speaker 1: some of these problems. It's the water builds up and

1191
01:04:11,960 --> 01:04:13,920
Speaker 1: builds up and builds up, and then it has nowhere

1192
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:16,320
Speaker 1: to go, and the problem just floods and then it's huge.

1193
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,400
Speaker 1: It's a way bigger problem than what it needs to be. Yeah,

1194
01:04:19,440 --> 01:04:22,880
Speaker 1: I think that's a great analogy. Um, there's there's a

1195
01:04:23,120 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 1: there's a lot of examples of this kind of thing

1196
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:29,640
Speaker 1: just going on. Um, It's it's just, man, the predator

1197
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:31,760
Speaker 1: thing is just one that gets people really fired up.

1198
01:04:31,800 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 1: And I guarantee i'll get an email or Facebook message

1199
01:04:34,160 --> 01:04:36,480
Speaker 1: from someone who's gonna be piste that we you know,

1200
01:04:36,720 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 1: I didn't say kill every single wolf or that you

1201
01:04:39,040 --> 01:04:42,160
Speaker 1: know wasn't you know. I think balance in general, I

1202
01:04:42,240 --> 01:04:46,360
Speaker 1: want to look for moderation, some kind of balance. Um.

1203
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:50,080
Speaker 1: But there's you know, there's gonna be hard line far

1204
01:04:50,280 --> 01:04:52,760
Speaker 1: either side, you know, advocates on both sides of all

1205
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:55,480
Speaker 1: these debates, whether it's Captain deer, whether it's predators, whether

1206
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:59,080
Speaker 1: it's uh any other political issue when it comes to anything,

1207
01:04:59,120 --> 01:05:02,760
Speaker 1: I guess. But in this case, dear, um, people are

1208
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:04,920
Speaker 1: passionate about and I get it. I get people have

1209
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 1: different opinions. Um, I wish, if nothing else, I wish

1210
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 1: more people could sit down and have conversations about it

1211
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:17,560
Speaker 1: without getting nasty. You know. I I, um, you know,

1212
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 1: do some stuff with the National Deer Alliance and help

1213
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:21,720
Speaker 1: them with some of their different media and social media

1214
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:23,000
Speaker 1: and different things of that. So I see a lot

1215
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:26,240
Speaker 1: of the comments posted there, and like the debates that

1216
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:30,840
Speaker 1: start there, um, and you just see people get nasty.

1217
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,400
Speaker 1: And that happens on forums, that happens on Facebook pages,

1218
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:37,200
Speaker 1: that happens everywhere, and people just start that they're not

1219
01:05:37,520 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 1: it seems not everyone, but there's a there's a contingent.

1220
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:42,480
Speaker 1: Maybe it's a very loud minority, but there's a contingent

1221
01:05:42,560 --> 01:05:44,800
Speaker 1: in any of these debates that gets super fired up,

1222
01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:47,640
Speaker 1: isn't willing to listen to anyone other sides, anyone else's

1223
01:05:47,680 --> 01:05:50,240
Speaker 1: point of view, and points fingers and screams and yells

1224
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:53,360
Speaker 1: and says you're wrong, you're wrong, you're wrong. And I

1225
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:56,080
Speaker 1: wish there was just more let's talk about it, let's

1226
01:05:56,160 --> 01:06:00,560
Speaker 1: understand each other. People are afraid of what they don't understand, okay,

1227
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:04,200
Speaker 1: And and and so when people say, hey, I have

1228
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:08,600
Speaker 1: this idea, Oh Jesus Christ, no way, that's the dumbest

1229
01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:10,360
Speaker 1: thing I've ever heard. This is how it you know,

1230
01:06:11,200 --> 01:06:15,160
Speaker 1: when if we would just sit down and work together

1231
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:19,439
Speaker 1: to fix some of these problems, everybody has to sacrifice,

1232
01:06:20,360 --> 01:06:23,000
Speaker 1: no matter what you are not. That's life in general.

1233
01:06:23,040 --> 01:06:26,720
Speaker 1: You're not going to get everything you want. Yeah, yeah,

1234
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:30,160
Speaker 1: so true. Yeah, So, I mean that's kind of store

1235
01:06:30,200 --> 01:06:31,960
Speaker 1: of everything that's that's going on when it comes to

1236
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:34,440
Speaker 1: that's just like the headline of the whole deal. When

1237
01:06:34,440 --> 01:06:38,720
Speaker 1: it comes to Dear, politics, policies, problems in general, there's

1238
01:06:38,720 --> 01:06:41,000
Speaker 1: a lot of different opinions, there's a lot of different

1239
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 1: potential solutions, and lots of people get fired up about

1240
01:06:45,240 --> 01:06:47,080
Speaker 1: it because we love Dear, we love deer hunting, and

1241
01:06:47,120 --> 01:06:49,400
Speaker 1: it gets us, you know, we're emotionally invested in so

1242
01:06:50,120 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 1: it just cause a lot of contention, and you know,

1243
01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:56,040
Speaker 1: taking a step back to our earlier conversation when it

1244
01:06:56,040 --> 01:06:58,840
Speaker 1: comes to the Captive Dear debate, I understand that I

1245
01:06:58,880 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 1: don't understand everything related to that other side of the

1246
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:04,439
Speaker 1: point of view, and so while I have a strong

1247
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:06,520
Speaker 1: opinion at this point, I wouldn't you know, I wouldn't

1248
01:07:06,560 --> 01:07:08,520
Speaker 1: decline if someone was like, hey, I have a different

1249
01:07:08,520 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 1: point of view. Let's talk about it. I would be

1250
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:12,280
Speaker 1: open to hearing them out, and I'm open to a

1251
01:07:12,320 --> 01:07:15,520
Speaker 1: better understanding that And I'm open to either maybe maybe

1252
01:07:15,840 --> 01:07:17,560
Speaker 1: maybe may view points would shift a little bit, or

1253
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:19,160
Speaker 1: maybe I would still feel the same way and we

1254
01:07:19,160 --> 01:07:21,440
Speaker 1: can just agree to disagree. But that doesn't mean I

1255
01:07:21,520 --> 01:07:24,280
Speaker 1: hate them. That doesn't mean that I'm completely discredited them

1256
01:07:24,400 --> 01:07:25,919
Speaker 1: or saying that we should wipe them off the face

1257
01:07:25,960 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 1: of the earth. We're just we're just saying things differently.

1258
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:33,560
Speaker 1: So moving on, Let's say, um, this is gonna be

1259
01:07:33,600 --> 01:07:37,120
Speaker 1: a long podcast. I think people appreciate are going to

1260
01:07:37,200 --> 01:07:38,800
Speaker 1: appreciate it, and if they got to listen to it

1261
01:07:38,840 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 1: in two parts, who cares? I mean this, these are

1262
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:44,360
Speaker 1: the big issues and they have to be discussed. Yeah, yeah,

1263
01:07:44,440 --> 01:07:46,000
Speaker 1: I hope. I hope this is something that people are

1264
01:07:46,040 --> 01:07:47,760
Speaker 1: interested in, because, you know, what's we're not talking about

1265
01:07:47,760 --> 01:07:50,080
Speaker 1: how to kill big deer. We're not talking about something

1266
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:53,240
Speaker 1: you know, exciting like that. But I do think it's

1267
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 1: important to sometimes take a step away from the little

1268
01:07:56,640 --> 01:07:58,480
Speaker 1: part that matters just to me right now, how do

1269
01:07:58,560 --> 01:08:00,120
Speaker 1: I shoot this deer? How do I have some deer

1270
01:08:00,160 --> 01:08:02,560
Speaker 1: hunting success? But it's important to talk about the bigger

1271
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:05,840
Speaker 1: picture issues like this that aren't fun maybe to talk about.

1272
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:09,280
Speaker 1: Sometimes they're not easy to talk about, but they will

1273
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 1: impact whether we can have the fun stuff in the future.

1274
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:15,120
Speaker 1: So so the next thing we talked about this summit

1275
01:08:15,280 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 1: was hunter and agency relationships and relations and this fits

1276
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:22,400
Speaker 1: in perfectly with what we're talking about here. You know,

1277
01:08:22,439 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 1: when it comes to the hunters want one thing and

1278
01:08:24,920 --> 01:08:27,960
Speaker 1: the agencies have another set of goals, and then everyone

1279
01:08:27,960 --> 01:08:31,559
Speaker 1: gets pissed at each other. UM. So the speaker at

1280
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:37,519
Speaker 1: the convention UM works within a agency that he used

1281
01:08:37,520 --> 01:08:39,080
Speaker 1: to work for I think it was the Vermont Fishing

1282
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:41,360
Speaker 1: Game Agency, I believe UM, and now he works for

1283
01:08:41,400 --> 01:08:44,840
Speaker 1: this larger national organization that represents wildlife. Agency is in

1284
01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:48,120
Speaker 1: general UM as a larger kind of advocacy group of

1285
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:51,960
Speaker 1: some type or representative organization. And he just talked about

1286
01:08:52,000 --> 01:08:55,720
Speaker 1: the basic challenges and you know, the biggest thing comes

1287
01:08:55,720 --> 01:08:58,519
Speaker 1: down to communication. UM. We had another talk about this

1288
01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:03,760
Speaker 1: on day three from a very controversial figure UM with

1289
01:09:03,920 --> 01:09:07,559
Speaker 1: some hunters. His name is Dr Gary Alt, and he

1290
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:12,040
Speaker 1: was in charge of UM the Deer Commission of some

1291
01:09:12,080 --> 01:09:14,879
Speaker 1: sorts in Pennsylvania in late nineties and early two thousand's

1292
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:19,000
Speaker 1: UM and so I'll use his example as an example

1293
01:09:19,040 --> 01:09:21,920
Speaker 1: of this greater issue of hunter agency relationships, and we

1294
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:24,120
Speaker 1: can see where that goes. But so he was in

1295
01:09:24,200 --> 01:09:27,320
Speaker 1: charge of of managing the deer situation in Pennsylvania at

1296
01:09:27,320 --> 01:09:30,600
Speaker 1: that time period. And what he shared with us is,

1297
01:09:30,600 --> 01:09:32,160
Speaker 1: you know, at that time period, he was brought in

1298
01:09:32,280 --> 01:09:36,240
Speaker 1: because there was massive habitat issues because of very very high,

1299
01:09:36,320 --> 01:09:39,880
Speaker 1: unnaturally high populations of deer um like eight deer per

1300
01:09:39,920 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 1: square while hundred deer perscuab awhile or something something like that,

1301
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:45,360
Speaker 1: very high populations, and you would see that where there

1302
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 1: was He showed a number of examples where they put

1303
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:52,559
Speaker 1: parts of a forest in an enclosure. Um. So there's

1304
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:55,120
Speaker 1: a hundred acres in an enclosure that deer can't get into,

1305
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 1: and then there's a hundred acres that's open to the

1306
01:09:57,120 --> 01:10:00,320
Speaker 1: deer um, and then they clear cut them both, and

1307
01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:02,520
Speaker 1: then they wanted to see how the forest would regenerate.

1308
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:07,040
Speaker 1: What what's the change in habitat, And within like three years,

1309
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 1: you see the enclosed portion had tremendous growth, thick as

1310
01:10:12,280 --> 01:10:15,120
Speaker 1: all get out, completely full, I mean just nasty, huge

1311
01:10:15,160 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 1: tall brush trees, all sorts of stuff. When you looked

1312
01:10:18,040 --> 01:10:20,200
Speaker 1: at the side that had the deer, there was nothing.

1313
01:10:20,240 --> 01:10:23,280
Speaker 1: There was some grass, there was like no new tree growth,

1314
01:10:23,320 --> 01:10:25,840
Speaker 1: there was no new bush growth. I mean, it was

1315
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:28,080
Speaker 1: just devastated habitat. And this is, you know, an an

1316
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:31,840
Speaker 1: illustration of the impact that the too high of deer

1317
01:10:31,840 --> 01:10:34,760
Speaker 1: population was having on the overall population and or on

1318
01:10:34,800 --> 01:10:39,240
Speaker 1: the overall habitat. And the issue is that if you've

1319
01:10:39,240 --> 01:10:41,920
Speaker 1: got that many deer and you damage the habitat that

1320
01:10:42,000 --> 01:10:44,599
Speaker 1: much because of an out of balance heard, you get

1321
01:10:44,640 --> 01:10:46,720
Speaker 1: exactly what you talked about, you know, five minutes ago, Dan,

1322
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:49,880
Speaker 1: It's like this river that's getting damned, and the river's damned,

1323
01:10:49,880 --> 01:10:53,360
Speaker 1: and that water level rises and rises and rises. You

1324
01:10:53,400 --> 01:10:55,720
Speaker 1: get this dear population that's rising and rising and rising

1325
01:10:55,760 --> 01:10:58,479
Speaker 1: because there's no major predators, there's not enough hunting of

1326
01:10:58,560 --> 01:11:01,439
Speaker 1: dose and the habit that that wasn't changing, so that

1327
01:11:01,520 --> 01:11:03,639
Speaker 1: deer propics can choose to rise and rise, rise until

1328
01:11:03,640 --> 01:11:06,240
Speaker 1: it falls breaks the damn and that's when you get

1329
01:11:06,560 --> 01:11:09,320
Speaker 1: deer that are dying from starvation, or deer that are

1330
01:11:09,360 --> 01:11:12,160
Speaker 1: not as healthy, or reduced fawn recruitment rates because these

1331
01:11:12,160 --> 01:11:15,880
Speaker 1: deer don't have enough food to support healthy fons um

1332
01:11:15,960 --> 01:11:19,400
Speaker 1: and you also get they also had tremendous at the

1333
01:11:19,400 --> 01:11:23,160
Speaker 1: the age structure of the herd. There was ridiculous, um

1334
01:11:23,240 --> 01:11:25,519
Speaker 1: something like eight percent of all their deer that were

1335
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:26,960
Speaker 1: killed or a year and a half old bucks, like

1336
01:11:27,080 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 1: just there was no mature bucks. It was just a

1337
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 1: tons of dose, no mature deer, no mature bucks, and

1338
01:11:32,520 --> 01:11:35,160
Speaker 1: just a bunch of young bucks doing l breeding. Um.

1339
01:11:35,320 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 1: So it was just a very and as as I

1340
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:40,120
Speaker 1: understood it from what he was sharing with us and

1341
01:11:40,120 --> 01:11:41,799
Speaker 1: for what I've heard from other it was an unhealthy

1342
01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:47,600
Speaker 1: deer situation. But many hunters in Pennsylvania, Um, they were

1343
01:11:47,600 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 1: seeing a lot of deer and they liked that. And

1344
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:51,840
Speaker 1: so I want to be careful here too, because I

1345
01:11:51,840 --> 01:11:53,679
Speaker 1: know there's me guys in Pennsylvania that that are still

1346
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 1: pissed about this, because I see comments all the time

1347
01:11:55,439 --> 01:11:58,040
Speaker 1: they hate this guy, Dr Garry Ault because they believe

1348
01:11:58,080 --> 01:12:00,960
Speaker 1: that he drove their dearer population into the ground. Um,

1349
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:04,800
Speaker 1: Like I'm still seeing people say that kind of stuff. Um,

1350
01:12:05,000 --> 01:12:07,240
Speaker 1: So I'm sure that there's probably so in Pennsylvania listening

1351
01:12:07,320 --> 01:12:10,719
Speaker 1: right now that thinks that what I'm telling, which isn't

1352
01:12:10,720 --> 01:12:12,479
Speaker 1: my story. I'm just telling this guy's story. Back to

1353
01:12:12,520 --> 01:12:14,360
Speaker 1: you guys. But they're gonna pists that we're talking about

1354
01:12:14,360 --> 01:12:17,200
Speaker 1: im and not saying it's horrible. Um, I'm just sharing

1355
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:19,639
Speaker 1: the viewpoint of what was discussed at the convention was

1356
01:12:19,640 --> 01:12:21,479
Speaker 1: was talking about the fact that his goal, what he

1357
01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:23,919
Speaker 1: described to us, was that this looked like a habitat

1358
01:12:23,920 --> 01:12:26,880
Speaker 1: and deer population issue that was out of balance and

1359
01:12:26,880 --> 01:12:29,400
Speaker 1: it had to be brought back into balance to reach

1360
01:12:29,439 --> 01:12:33,559
Speaker 1: a natural and healthy place in the middle where hopefully

1361
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:36,479
Speaker 1: that the population could be healthy again, the habitat could

1362
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:38,920
Speaker 1: get back to a relatively normal state, and that would

1363
01:12:38,960 --> 01:12:41,479
Speaker 1: result in healthier dear and hopefully they could find a

1364
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:42,880
Speaker 1: way to do this in a way that you know,

1365
01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:46,720
Speaker 1: hunters could still enjoy quality hunting experiences too, especially in

1366
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 1: the into the future, which was at risk if things

1367
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:51,920
Speaker 1: continue to go down the dream. So long story short,

1368
01:12:53,080 --> 01:12:55,960
Speaker 1: they decided, after a whole bunch of discussions and debate

1369
01:12:56,000 --> 01:12:57,800
Speaker 1: and research, that the best way to do this so

1370
01:12:57,880 --> 01:12:59,519
Speaker 1: the only option they had to do this was to

1371
01:12:59,720 --> 01:13:02,599
Speaker 1: in reese the allotment of doughtex so get more people

1372
01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:05,559
Speaker 1: to kill more doughes, bring the dope population down, and

1373
01:13:05,640 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 1: reduce the harvest of young bucks. So they put Antler

1374
01:13:08,280 --> 01:13:11,719
Speaker 1: point restrictions into effect as that was the only way

1375
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:16,600
Speaker 1: they could, um keep all the young bucks from getting shot. Um,

1376
01:13:16,720 --> 01:13:18,320
Speaker 1: they couldn't, you know, the couldn't shut down the season,

1377
01:13:18,360 --> 01:13:19,880
Speaker 1: they couldn't do different things like that. So it was

1378
01:13:20,200 --> 01:13:23,439
Speaker 1: put some type of restriction. So Dr garryl had to

1379
01:13:23,439 --> 01:13:27,720
Speaker 1: go around the state talking about this these changes, these

1380
01:13:27,720 --> 01:13:30,040
Speaker 1: proposed changes and try to help people understand why they

1381
01:13:30,040 --> 01:13:32,639
Speaker 1: were doing it. And over the course of however long

1382
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 1: this period was where they kind of did this tour

1383
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:36,799
Speaker 1: of the state, it was got it got super super nasty.

1384
01:13:36,880 --> 01:13:39,280
Speaker 1: He got tons of death threats, and he was abused

1385
01:13:39,280 --> 01:13:42,320
Speaker 1: and yelled and screamed at, spit at and um, it

1386
01:13:42,479 --> 01:13:45,160
Speaker 1: just just destroyed a lot of ways. He said, a

1387
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:46,720
Speaker 1: lot of things in his life just kind of fell apart.

1388
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:48,599
Speaker 1: He said, it ruined his career in general. He knew

1389
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:52,200
Speaker 1: that going into it, because he knew this would be unpopular. Um.

1390
01:13:52,240 --> 01:13:55,160
Speaker 1: But you know, I wasn't involved in it. I can't

1391
01:13:55,200 --> 01:13:57,600
Speaker 1: say who's who was right, who's wrong, or what to

1392
01:13:57,600 --> 01:13:59,160
Speaker 1: believe and what not to believe. I'm just telling you

1393
01:13:59,200 --> 01:14:02,920
Speaker 1: what I heard, UM. But I just think the situation

1394
01:14:03,360 --> 01:14:07,360
Speaker 1: is a perfect illustration of the hunter agency relationship where

1395
01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:11,360
Speaker 1: hunters in many cases we write you and me, um,

1396
01:14:11,479 --> 01:14:13,280
Speaker 1: we want to have a quality deer hunting experience, we

1397
01:14:13,280 --> 01:14:15,000
Speaker 1: want to see deer, we want to have you know,

1398
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:19,480
Speaker 1: all those things. And then a lot of these wildlife agencies, UM,

1399
01:14:19,520 --> 01:14:21,960
Speaker 1: you know, they too want there to be deer in

1400
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:24,519
Speaker 1: the habitat because hunters are the greatest stakeholders and they

1401
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:27,840
Speaker 1: pay the bills and their job is to manage the

1402
01:14:27,840 --> 01:14:31,040
Speaker 1: wildlife in the interest of the public trust. Um. But

1403
01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:33,839
Speaker 1: they also have to balance everything, so they can't manage

1404
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:36,920
Speaker 1: just for one person or just one species at all times.

1405
01:14:36,960 --> 01:14:39,360
Speaker 1: They have to manage across a number of different needs,

1406
01:14:39,360 --> 01:14:42,800
Speaker 1: so they have to look at ecosystem ecosystem stuff. Again,

1407
01:14:42,840 --> 01:14:44,439
Speaker 1: they have to look at balancing things to some degree,

1408
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:48,360
Speaker 1: so that causes unpopular decisions sometimes with people like you

1409
01:14:48,439 --> 01:14:51,719
Speaker 1: and me, UM. So that's what this larger discussion was about.

1410
01:14:51,800 --> 01:14:53,800
Speaker 1: Was it was how can we as hunters try to

1411
01:14:53,840 --> 01:14:56,559
Speaker 1: better understand what they're trying to do, and how can

1412
01:14:56,560 --> 01:14:59,360
Speaker 1: the wildlife agencies try to better understand where us hunters

1413
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:01,040
Speaker 1: are coming from, and how can we how can we

1414
01:15:01,040 --> 01:15:05,120
Speaker 1: communicate better, and how can we work together better? Um.

1415
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:08,000
Speaker 1: So that was a big thing let's talked about. UM.

1416
01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:11,360
Speaker 1: I don't know if there was any like major solutions

1417
01:15:11,360 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 1: that were discussed so that came out of it. But

1418
01:15:13,040 --> 01:15:15,800
Speaker 1: that's that's an issue. That's just you know, it's contentious.

1419
01:15:15,800 --> 01:15:17,400
Speaker 1: It's happening everywhere right now. I don't know if he's

1420
01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:19,240
Speaker 1: seen Dan, but like in Ohio, there's a lot of

1421
01:15:19,280 --> 01:15:21,200
Speaker 1: hunters in Ohio that are really upset about the deer

1422
01:15:21,240 --> 01:15:24,240
Speaker 1: population and where things are going and how the DNR

1423
01:15:24,320 --> 01:15:26,280
Speaker 1: there is managing it. There's a lot of people upset

1424
01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:29,360
Speaker 1: in Minnesota about how people are managing their dear population.

1425
01:15:29,439 --> 01:15:31,360
Speaker 1: They think that there's way too many deer being killed

1426
01:15:31,400 --> 01:15:34,520
Speaker 1: up in the northern parts of the state, I believe. UM.

1427
01:15:34,560 --> 01:15:38,160
Speaker 1: So they're having they're actually having an outside group audit

1428
01:15:38,560 --> 01:15:42,240
Speaker 1: their DNR audit how they're managing the deer. Heard um,

1429
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:44,040
Speaker 1: And that happened back in Wisconsin. I think in two

1430
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:47,519
Speaker 1: thousand and ten they brought in. Interestingly, they brought in

1431
01:15:47,640 --> 01:15:51,120
Speaker 1: Dr James Crow, who is another deer researcher, biologist, etcetera.

1432
01:15:51,200 --> 01:15:53,000
Speaker 1: And then they brought Gary Alt, this guy I just

1433
01:15:53,000 --> 01:15:55,400
Speaker 1: talked about. They brought him in as part of this

1434
01:15:55,439 --> 01:15:57,720
Speaker 1: audit team to audit how the DNR and Wisconsin was

1435
01:15:57,760 --> 01:15:59,840
Speaker 1: doing managing it. So it's just something it's gonna pop up,

1436
01:16:00,040 --> 01:16:05,640
Speaker 1: happens um and it gets people fired up. I'm not

1437
01:16:05,640 --> 01:16:09,400
Speaker 1: gonna say anything right now because I'm going to bring

1438
01:16:09,479 --> 01:16:11,320
Speaker 1: some of this stuff up on the next topic that

1439
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:14,680
Speaker 1: we're going to be talking about, and I kind of

1440
01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:18,479
Speaker 1: feel it all kind of ties together. Yeah. I think

1441
01:16:18,479 --> 01:16:20,120
Speaker 1: a lot of these things tied together. So was the

1442
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:24,559
Speaker 1: next topic that you're thinking, we're talking about hunter recruitment? Correct? Alright, perfect,

1443
01:16:24,560 --> 01:16:28,439
Speaker 1: So then that next topic, which is hunter recruitment, was

1444
01:16:28,560 --> 01:16:30,960
Speaker 1: voted on the final or the final part of Day

1445
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:33,880
Speaker 1: two was voted as the number one issue of concern

1446
01:16:34,960 --> 01:16:37,799
Speaker 1: for the National Deer Lines. So, you know, in general,

1447
01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:39,280
Speaker 1: if we want to be able to if we want

1448
01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 1: deer hunting to continue to be managed as a priority,

1449
01:16:42,280 --> 01:16:45,400
Speaker 1: if we want you know, what we do to be accepted,

1450
01:16:45,920 --> 01:16:48,800
Speaker 1: if we want there to be sustainable populations, if we

1451
01:16:48,840 --> 01:16:50,760
Speaker 1: want them to be places for us to hunt, if

1452
01:16:50,760 --> 01:16:52,640
Speaker 1: we want all of these things that are important to

1453
01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:55,120
Speaker 1: us right now, it's gonna be hard to have those

1454
01:16:55,200 --> 01:16:58,599
Speaker 1: if there are significantly fewer deer hunters in the future

1455
01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:00,800
Speaker 1: by virtue of the fact that we are the ones

1456
01:17:00,840 --> 01:17:04,040
Speaker 1: who vote and take action to protect these things. If

1457
01:17:04,040 --> 01:17:06,080
Speaker 1: there's no one who cares about that stuff anymore, no

1458
01:17:06,120 --> 01:17:07,880
Speaker 1: one's going to vote in favor of that anymore, or

1459
01:17:07,960 --> 01:17:10,680
Speaker 1: take action or donate money to those things anymore. And

1460
01:17:10,720 --> 01:17:12,439
Speaker 1: then if there's no one who cares about this stuff,

1461
01:17:12,439 --> 01:17:16,360
Speaker 1: no one's gonna take care of this stuff. So because

1462
01:17:16,400 --> 01:17:19,840
Speaker 1: of that, bringing new Hunters into the fold in some

1463
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:23,840
Speaker 1: way is an issue of top concern for the people

1464
01:17:23,880 --> 01:17:26,040
Speaker 1: at the Summit, and I think for a lot of people.

1465
01:17:26,080 --> 01:17:30,480
Speaker 1: And if anyone listened to last week's podcast with Steve Ronella,

1466
01:17:30,920 --> 01:17:34,040
Speaker 1: we talked about this topic, um, and how some people

1467
01:17:34,320 --> 01:17:36,000
Speaker 1: this we talked about that, you and me talked about

1468
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:38,559
Speaker 1: this a couple of weeks ago, um, and so you

1469
01:17:38,560 --> 01:17:40,360
Speaker 1: know my point of view on it was what I

1470
01:17:40,400 --> 01:17:42,679
Speaker 1: just said right there, right, It's important to continue bringing

1471
01:17:42,680 --> 01:17:45,680
Speaker 1: people in the fold because we need more advocates for

1472
01:17:45,800 --> 01:17:48,559
Speaker 1: our way of life. And if people don't experience it,

1473
01:17:48,640 --> 01:17:50,439
Speaker 1: they won't love it, they won't take care of it

1474
01:17:50,439 --> 01:17:52,479
Speaker 1: and support it. On the other side of the coin,

1475
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:55,200
Speaker 1: which I at one point, I know you've shared me,

1476
01:17:55,640 --> 01:17:58,200
Speaker 1: and I guess I'll ask you. I won't speak for you, um,

1477
01:17:58,200 --> 01:18:01,400
Speaker 1: But last week Steve and ronnell Us or Steve Rella,

1478
01:18:01,400 --> 01:18:03,400
Speaker 1: talked about his brother's point of view is that, hey,

1479
01:18:03,439 --> 01:18:05,479
Speaker 1: I want fewer hunters because it's already hard to get

1480
01:18:05,479 --> 01:18:07,639
Speaker 1: good ground. It's already hard to find places to hunt,

1481
01:18:07,680 --> 01:18:09,800
Speaker 1: it's already hard to get a good deer. Um, why

1482
01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:11,760
Speaker 1: would I want more people out here screwing it up

1483
01:18:11,760 --> 01:18:13,639
Speaker 1: for me? So I know there's a lot of people

1484
01:18:13,680 --> 01:18:16,760
Speaker 1: who have that point of view too. Um. So that

1485
01:18:16,840 --> 01:18:20,640
Speaker 1: was another topic of debate too. So what are your

1486
01:18:20,640 --> 01:18:25,960
Speaker 1: thoughts on that? Dan? Where are you at with this? All? Right? So,

1487
01:18:26,160 --> 01:18:30,080
Speaker 1: in order for a group of people to be heard

1488
01:18:30,520 --> 01:18:34,840
Speaker 1: and be and and be strong is for them to unite.

1489
01:18:35,560 --> 01:18:39,160
Speaker 1: And what I what I keep going back to is

1490
01:18:39,680 --> 01:18:42,840
Speaker 1: as hunters. Let's say we take all the hunters right now,

1491
01:18:43,120 --> 01:18:48,280
Speaker 1: how many of how many hunters do you know who other?

1492
01:18:48,320 --> 01:18:51,479
Speaker 1: Aside from me? And you you know, is your uncle is?

1493
01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:54,360
Speaker 1: Does he care about these things? Do my uncle's and

1494
01:18:54,360 --> 01:18:58,400
Speaker 1: and my friends who are the weekend warriors who they

1495
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:00,439
Speaker 1: go out, they buy their tags and they deer and

1496
01:19:00,479 --> 01:19:02,599
Speaker 1: then that's it. They're not a part of anything else.

1497
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 1: I feel before we go out and say hello, United States,

1498
01:19:09,080 --> 01:19:12,599
Speaker 1: we would love for you to come hunt I think

1499
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:15,559
Speaker 1: we need to educate the hunters that are out there,

1500
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:19,360
Speaker 1: provide them with the statistics and the information so we

1501
01:19:19,400 --> 01:19:24,200
Speaker 1: can all be one giant voice, because there's millions of

1502
01:19:24,280 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 1: hunters out there that don't don't really I'm not going

1503
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:30,280
Speaker 1: to say that they don't care. They don't care until

1504
01:19:30,320 --> 01:19:33,680
Speaker 1: it's too late. And I feel that we need to

1505
01:19:34,240 --> 01:19:38,960
Speaker 1: unite before we and and and have one voice, which

1506
01:19:39,000 --> 01:19:41,320
Speaker 1: is hard to do, but I feel like the National

1507
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:44,880
Speaker 1: Deer Alliance is the first step in that direction. That

1508
01:19:45,120 --> 01:19:49,799
Speaker 1: we need to understand that we're not all going to agree,

1509
01:19:50,040 --> 01:19:52,960
Speaker 1: but we have to do what's right and and and

1510
01:19:53,040 --> 01:19:58,320
Speaker 1: get get the communication lines open before we say, hey, everybody,

1511
01:19:58,360 --> 01:20:01,280
Speaker 1: come on, because I'll be honest with you. If you

1512
01:20:01,360 --> 01:20:03,240
Speaker 1: tell me, hey, Dan, why don't you go out and

1513
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:06,160
Speaker 1: take one person hunting this year? Get him into hunting.

1514
01:20:07,040 --> 01:20:09,599
Speaker 1: That person right there is going to get an education

1515
01:20:10,040 --> 01:20:13,559
Speaker 1: as opposed to some dip shit out there who is

1516
01:20:14,240 --> 01:20:17,360
Speaker 1: you know, a weekend warrior may not be ethically following

1517
01:20:17,400 --> 01:20:21,639
Speaker 1: all the you know, ethically hunting correctly, maybe not following

1518
01:20:21,640 --> 01:20:24,040
Speaker 1: all the rules and guidelines. Then then what you have

1519
01:20:24,200 --> 01:20:26,479
Speaker 1: is a new hunter who is not following all the

1520
01:20:26,560 --> 01:20:30,320
Speaker 1: rules and guidelines, who is not hunting ethically because he's

1521
01:20:30,479 --> 01:20:35,320
Speaker 1: educated by someone else out there who thinks it's okay.

1522
01:20:36,000 --> 01:20:39,080
Speaker 1: So do I think that in order for us to

1523
01:20:40,160 --> 01:20:43,360
Speaker 1: move forward we need more hunters, Yes, but we need

1524
01:20:43,400 --> 01:20:50,080
Speaker 1: to also have an education and and god, what's the

1525
01:20:50,080 --> 01:20:52,760
Speaker 1: word I'm looking for for the current hunters? A sense

1526
01:20:52,800 --> 01:20:57,200
Speaker 1: of urgency that says you need to be involved now

1527
01:20:57,800 --> 01:21:02,120
Speaker 1: more than ever before. I couldn't agree with anymore. That's

1528
01:21:02,200 --> 01:21:04,400
Speaker 1: so true. And I think a perfect example of this

1529
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:07,040
Speaker 1: is you know, when the National Deer Alliance was created,

1530
01:21:07,080 --> 01:21:09,760
Speaker 1: there was a study or they looked at some kind

1531
01:21:09,760 --> 01:21:13,120
Speaker 1: of statistics that looked at the percentage of if you

1532
01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:17,240
Speaker 1: look at the different deer or the different hunting communities,

1533
01:21:17,320 --> 01:21:18,880
Speaker 1: like if you look at the waterfowl community, the duck

1534
01:21:18,960 --> 01:21:21,479
Speaker 1: hunting community, look at the turkey hunting community, you look

1535
01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:23,760
Speaker 1: at the elk hunting community, and you look at the

1536
01:21:23,760 --> 01:21:26,280
Speaker 1: deer hunting community, and you say, Okay, there's there's this

1537
01:21:26,360 --> 01:21:30,320
Speaker 1: many duck hunters. Here's the percentage of duck hunters who

1538
01:21:30,320 --> 01:21:33,560
Speaker 1: are members of Ducks Unlimited. If you look at the

1539
01:21:33,640 --> 01:21:36,160
Speaker 1: number of turkey hunters, here's the percentage of that number

1540
01:21:36,160 --> 01:21:40,200
Speaker 1: that's involved in the National National Wild Turkey Federation. If

1541
01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:42,400
Speaker 1: I can't remember what the actual numbers were, but it's

1542
01:21:42,680 --> 01:21:47,360
Speaker 1: something like ten. Of all these different groups, a significant

1543
01:21:47,360 --> 01:21:51,559
Speaker 1: portion of all those hunter groups or hunter populations are

1544
01:21:51,600 --> 01:21:55,599
Speaker 1: part of the conservation organization for their group. But for deer,

1545
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:59,720
Speaker 1: there's eleven there's over eleven million deer hunters involved in

1546
01:22:00,080 --> 01:22:02,679
Speaker 1: the over eleven million deer hunters in less than one

1547
01:22:02,760 --> 01:22:07,040
Speaker 1: percent of our population is involved in any kind of

1548
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:10,839
Speaker 1: dear organization, by far, the least of any other species

1549
01:22:10,840 --> 01:22:14,000
Speaker 1: out there. Yeah, and it's it's indicative of exactly what

1550
01:22:14,040 --> 01:22:17,200
Speaker 1: you said that there's people are too apathetic. They they

1551
01:22:17,200 --> 01:22:19,280
Speaker 1: just don't care if it doesn't affect me right now

1552
01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:23,720
Speaker 1: on my property, my dear, my situation. People just like

1553
01:22:23,840 --> 01:22:25,840
Speaker 1: you said, they don't give a ship. It's how much

1554
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:30,200
Speaker 1: they hate to say that. More people need to care

1555
01:22:31,000 --> 01:22:33,280
Speaker 1: and and and not just look at what's happening with me,

1556
01:22:33,320 --> 01:22:34,920
Speaker 1: but look at the bigger picture. And I know I'm

1557
01:22:35,800 --> 01:22:39,080
Speaker 1: you know, I'm talking from my my high my high

1558
01:22:39,160 --> 01:22:42,840
Speaker 1: horse right now or whatever. Um, And I can be better.

1559
01:22:42,880 --> 01:22:45,120
Speaker 1: I could do better, for sure. I'm not always great

1560
01:22:45,160 --> 01:22:47,320
Speaker 1: at this either. It's easy to get you know, I

1561
01:22:47,400 --> 01:22:49,720
Speaker 1: just I just wrote a little thing about this a

1562
01:22:49,760 --> 01:22:52,200
Speaker 1: week or two ago, and I talked about conservation tunnel vision,

1563
01:22:52,640 --> 01:22:54,519
Speaker 1: this idea that you know, we're we get so focused

1564
01:22:54,520 --> 01:22:57,720
Speaker 1: on our piece of property, our dear heard, our bucks

1565
01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:00,960
Speaker 1: are hunting, it's easy to forget about the larger picture.

1566
01:23:00,960 --> 01:23:03,000
Speaker 1: And that's that's not just a deer hunting thing or

1567
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:04,839
Speaker 1: just a hunting thing, that's just a people in general.

1568
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:07,920
Speaker 1: You know, if a new tax doesn't impact me, I

1569
01:23:08,000 --> 01:23:09,840
Speaker 1: might not care about it or get upset about it.

1570
01:23:09,880 --> 01:23:12,200
Speaker 1: Or if a new regulation from you know, the government

1571
01:23:12,240 --> 01:23:14,080
Speaker 1: doesn't impact me, maybe I won't care even though it

1572
01:23:14,120 --> 01:23:18,759
Speaker 1: impacts thirty million other people. Um. I understand that's human nature.

1573
01:23:19,240 --> 01:23:21,559
Speaker 1: But I just hope and wish that more of us

1574
01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:25,519
Speaker 1: within the deer hunting community could start paying attention to

1575
01:23:25,560 --> 01:23:29,479
Speaker 1: some of these things because they do impact us, all right,

1576
01:23:29,760 --> 01:23:33,559
Speaker 1: And it doesn't necessarily have to be like it doesn't

1577
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:36,639
Speaker 1: necessarily have to be donating money to a specific because

1578
01:23:36,800 --> 01:23:38,080
Speaker 1: you know, a lot of people think that if you're

1579
01:23:38,080 --> 01:23:40,280
Speaker 1: going to be a part of something that you have

1580
01:23:40,400 --> 01:23:45,440
Speaker 1: to spend money. You don't, you you know, sometimes sometimes

1581
01:23:45,439 --> 01:23:48,200
Speaker 1: it may we may ask for a vote to take

1582
01:23:48,439 --> 01:23:51,360
Speaker 1: time out of your day to go vote for what's important,

1583
01:23:51,760 --> 01:23:55,360
Speaker 1: you know, whether that is you know, an elected official

1584
01:23:55,840 --> 01:23:59,000
Speaker 1: or a law or a bill or something like that.

1585
01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:04,599
Speaker 1: But or right right, your congressman or your house or representatives, um, person,

1586
01:24:05,040 --> 01:24:11,000
Speaker 1: But all right, focus on the people who are already

1587
01:24:11,080 --> 01:24:15,479
Speaker 1: hunters and get that voice louder. And then because you know,

1588
01:24:15,600 --> 01:24:17,360
Speaker 1: I read in some articles, you know it's like, hey,

1589
01:24:17,400 --> 01:24:20,320
Speaker 1: we need numbers so we can vote. We have numbers.

1590
01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 1: Educate the numbers that we do have to get them,

1591
01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:28,040
Speaker 1: you know, get them active, then we can start the recruitment.

1592
01:24:29,760 --> 01:24:31,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I can't argue with your logic on that.

1593
01:24:32,120 --> 01:24:35,240
Speaker 1: I mean a hundred percent agree that we need to

1594
01:24:35,240 --> 01:24:38,240
Speaker 1: to activate our base. Is that, you know, if you're

1595
01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:40,040
Speaker 1: talking like what they say in politics, like we have

1596
01:24:40,080 --> 01:24:42,240
Speaker 1: our base, our hunter our current hunters. We need to

1597
01:24:42,240 --> 01:24:44,640
Speaker 1: get those people more involved. You and me, Dan, we

1598
01:24:44,680 --> 01:24:46,800
Speaker 1: need to get more involved. Hopefully our listeners can get

1599
01:24:46,840 --> 01:24:50,240
Speaker 1: more involved. Um And I hope if anything comes out

1600
01:24:50,240 --> 01:24:53,040
Speaker 1: of this entire you know, conversation we're having here, it's

1601
01:24:53,040 --> 01:24:55,960
Speaker 1: just the fact that hey, there's some stuff happening. There's

1602
01:24:56,040 --> 01:25:01,240
Speaker 1: things happening that really should it should require your attention.

1603
01:25:01,320 --> 01:25:03,160
Speaker 1: You should be paying attention to these things. Think about

1604
01:25:03,160 --> 01:25:06,760
Speaker 1: these things, think about how they might impact you in

1605
01:25:06,800 --> 01:25:09,920
Speaker 1: the future, or maybe they are right now. Um. And

1606
01:25:09,920 --> 01:25:12,160
Speaker 1: to your point, you don't need to donate money. Maybe

1607
01:25:12,200 --> 01:25:14,880
Speaker 1: you join the group, or maybe you just participate in

1608
01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:17,720
Speaker 1: sharing your penny more or you know, there's all these

1609
01:25:17,720 --> 01:25:20,280
Speaker 1: different meetings that go on the wildlife agencies put on

1610
01:25:20,400 --> 01:25:23,640
Speaker 1: to get comments from the general public on new regulations

1611
01:25:23,720 --> 01:25:27,280
Speaker 1: or things like that, and in many cases they get

1612
01:25:27,400 --> 01:25:31,320
Speaker 1: very very small turnouts. Um. But then they get tons

1613
01:25:31,360 --> 01:25:33,960
Speaker 1: of people getting piste off about this new regulation, but

1614
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:36,559
Speaker 1: then only like one percent of the population actually showed

1615
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:38,519
Speaker 1: up to talk about it when they have these meetings

1616
01:25:38,520 --> 01:25:41,960
Speaker 1: to discuss the new regulations and ideas and things like that. So,

1617
01:25:42,000 --> 01:25:44,840
Speaker 1: I mean, you find ways to get involved, whether it

1618
01:25:44,880 --> 01:25:46,960
Speaker 1: be show up or something like that, or donate money

1619
01:25:47,040 --> 01:25:52,840
Speaker 1: or volunteer time, uh, talk to legislature legislator. Um. There's

1620
01:25:52,880 --> 01:25:54,960
Speaker 1: many different ways to get involved, and I think probably

1621
01:25:54,960 --> 01:25:58,400
Speaker 1: the first and foremost step though, is just becoming educated

1622
01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:00,000
Speaker 1: on like pay attention to it, just so you under

1623
01:26:00,040 --> 01:26:04,280
Speaker 1: stand what's happening. And from a more cynical maybe that's

1624
01:26:04,280 --> 01:26:06,799
Speaker 1: the word I'm looking for. If you're not doing anything,

1625
01:26:06,880 --> 01:26:10,120
Speaker 1: don't bitch about it shut up because no, honestly, because

1626
01:26:10,160 --> 01:26:12,599
Speaker 1: I don't care. I don't care about you if all

1627
01:26:12,640 --> 01:26:15,360
Speaker 1: you're doing is bitching, if you're if you are coming

1628
01:26:15,400 --> 01:26:18,160
Speaker 1: to the table with a problem, also bring a solution.

1629
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:21,160
Speaker 1: That's what I do for my job every day. You know,

1630
01:26:21,280 --> 01:26:25,639
Speaker 1: there's no value in any part of life if you're

1631
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:29,400
Speaker 1: just bitching because at that you're part of the problem

1632
01:26:29,400 --> 01:26:31,559
Speaker 1: at that point, or or you're just in the way

1633
01:26:32,000 --> 01:26:35,000
Speaker 1: of finding a goal, or you know, having a problem

1634
01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:38,920
Speaker 1: reach a goal or finding a solution. So I have

1635
01:26:39,080 --> 01:26:42,000
Speaker 1: no time even people that I may agree with on

1636
01:26:42,080 --> 01:26:45,120
Speaker 1: certain topics, whether it's hunting related or political or whatever,

1637
01:26:45,720 --> 01:26:50,040
Speaker 1: what did you do If you're not doing something, I

1638
01:26:50,080 --> 01:26:53,600
Speaker 1: have no time for you. Yeah, I can't argue with that.

1639
01:26:53,800 --> 01:26:56,479
Speaker 1: I agree. I mean, come to the table with your

1640
01:26:56,520 --> 01:26:58,680
Speaker 1: opinions if you want them, and your complaints if you

1641
01:26:58,760 --> 01:27:01,640
Speaker 1: have them. But let's talk, lucians, Let's talk about it,

1642
01:27:01,720 --> 01:27:05,760
Speaker 1: let's try to understand each other. Let's let's engage. Um.

1643
01:27:05,880 --> 01:27:07,599
Speaker 1: I agree, just going out there and throwing a fit

1644
01:27:07,680 --> 01:27:10,400
Speaker 1: doesn't do any good either. And I'll be honest with you.

1645
01:27:10,760 --> 01:27:13,479
Speaker 1: Until I joined the National Deer Alliance and you know

1646
01:27:14,240 --> 01:27:17,879
Speaker 1: you helped me with this podcast would be more involved

1647
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:20,880
Speaker 1: and through Wired to Hunt. You know, I've I've taken

1648
01:27:20,880 --> 01:27:23,719
Speaker 1: a little shift, you know, I had been a hypocrite

1649
01:27:23,720 --> 01:27:25,920
Speaker 1: in the past saying, oh, the dn R don't know

1650
01:27:25,960 --> 01:27:28,600
Speaker 1: ship and you know, they they think they know what

1651
01:27:28,600 --> 01:27:31,800
Speaker 1: they're doing, but they don't, when in reality, a majority

1652
01:27:31,840 --> 01:27:36,040
Speaker 1: of these uh, these agencies, you know, they're not just

1653
01:27:36,120 --> 01:27:39,840
Speaker 1: trying to f you every day, right they are? They

1654
01:27:39,880 --> 01:27:42,960
Speaker 1: have hunter interests in mind, because how do they make

1655
01:27:43,000 --> 01:27:48,280
Speaker 1: their money from hunters? Yeah? Yeah, I think that's that's

1656
01:27:48,320 --> 01:27:50,120
Speaker 1: that There's there's always going to be the people that

1657
01:27:50,120 --> 01:27:53,360
Speaker 1: are cynical or anti government, anti establishment who just assumed,

1658
01:27:53,439 --> 01:27:54,960
Speaker 1: right like you said, that they're just trying to screw

1659
01:27:55,040 --> 01:27:58,760
Speaker 1: you over. Um. I typically not that. I think that

1660
01:27:58,880 --> 01:28:05,000
Speaker 1: all that all governing organizations are are not ever at fault.

1661
01:28:05,080 --> 01:28:07,600
Speaker 1: I think there's certainly are plenty of ways that agencies

1662
01:28:07,640 --> 01:28:09,519
Speaker 1: are different, There's plenty of ways that can be improved,

1663
01:28:09,520 --> 01:28:11,240
Speaker 1: and we need to make sure we keep them accountable

1664
01:28:11,400 --> 01:28:14,200
Speaker 1: all those things. Yes, absolutely, but I tend to agree

1665
01:28:14,200 --> 01:28:17,000
Speaker 1: with that you said, Dan that I don't personally think

1666
01:28:17,040 --> 01:28:19,400
Speaker 1: that these agencies are trying to screw us over. I

1667
01:28:19,439 --> 01:28:22,080
Speaker 1: think they're trying to do the best job they can

1668
01:28:22,200 --> 01:28:25,839
Speaker 1: to balance everyone's interests. But of course it's hard to balance,

1669
01:28:25,880 --> 01:28:28,679
Speaker 1: you know, everyone all the different interests. And I think

1670
01:28:29,720 --> 01:28:32,880
Speaker 1: I would say one thing. While I don't think any

1671
01:28:32,920 --> 01:28:34,880
Speaker 1: of these agencies are doing the best possible job in

1672
01:28:34,880 --> 01:28:37,880
Speaker 1: the world, I would say that in general, they're doing

1673
01:28:37,920 --> 01:28:40,439
Speaker 1: a pretty darn good job, because let's take a look

1674
01:28:40,479 --> 01:28:44,639
Speaker 1: at where we were from a wildlife standpoint seventy years ago.

1675
01:28:45,439 --> 01:28:47,320
Speaker 1: You know, at the in the early twentieth century, we

1676
01:28:47,320 --> 01:28:49,120
Speaker 1: didn't have anything, We didn't have any of these deer,

1677
01:28:49,160 --> 01:28:51,639
Speaker 1: we didn't have any of these help We were we're

1678
01:28:51,680 --> 01:28:55,800
Speaker 1: near extirpation of these species. And over the past fifty

1679
01:28:55,880 --> 01:29:00,720
Speaker 1: sixty years, we've seen an unbelievable, you know, re establishment

1680
01:29:00,760 --> 01:29:04,719
Speaker 1: of wildlife populations in this country, and they're at tremendous levels,

1681
01:29:04,760 --> 01:29:07,040
Speaker 1: even though right now there's lots of concern about the

1682
01:29:07,080 --> 01:29:09,240
Speaker 1: fact that they're declining in some places and we're having

1683
01:29:09,280 --> 01:29:12,400
Speaker 1: some issues. Um, the only reason we can complain about

1684
01:29:12,439 --> 01:29:15,680
Speaker 1: the fact that the harvest rates down, you know, is

1685
01:29:15,720 --> 01:29:19,240
Speaker 1: because we've grown it just such a great, incredible point

1686
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:22,400
Speaker 1: where these populations are are massive at a point that

1687
01:29:22,439 --> 01:29:27,920
Speaker 1: no one's enjoyed since the so any in any storry

1688
01:29:27,920 --> 01:29:32,160
Speaker 1: to cut you off, but in any process, micromanagement is

1689
01:29:32,200 --> 01:29:38,840
Speaker 1: the hardest part. Yeah, very true, very true. So I think,

1690
01:29:38,840 --> 01:29:41,720
Speaker 1: you know, do we need to keep our agencies accountable? Yes.

1691
01:29:41,920 --> 01:29:43,479
Speaker 1: Do we need to make sure that they hear the

1692
01:29:43,520 --> 01:29:48,040
Speaker 1: hunter's voice? Absolutely? Do we need to um, you know,

1693
01:29:48,120 --> 01:29:52,360
Speaker 1: offer strong feedback, sometimes offer solutions sometimes um ask for

1694
01:29:52,400 --> 01:29:55,439
Speaker 1: them to make adjustment sometimes? Yeah. Absolutely. But at the

1695
01:29:55,439 --> 01:29:57,519
Speaker 1: same time it's important I think for you and me,

1696
01:29:57,640 --> 01:29:59,479
Speaker 1: Dan and all of our listeners to sometimes also try

1697
01:29:59,479 --> 01:30:01,439
Speaker 1: to look at the other side of the coin too

1698
01:30:01,439 --> 01:30:02,840
Speaker 1: and say, Okay, what are they trying to do here?

1699
01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:05,600
Speaker 1: What was this meaning from a big picture? How to

1700
01:30:05,680 --> 01:30:07,320
Speaker 1: your point, how can we part How can we be

1701
01:30:07,400 --> 01:30:10,559
Speaker 1: part of the solution and not just a loud voice

1702
01:30:10,640 --> 01:30:16,200
Speaker 1: that's part of the problem. So there's that. Um. So

1703
01:30:16,240 --> 01:30:18,360
Speaker 1: those are the Those are the four issues that were

1704
01:30:18,640 --> 01:30:21,960
Speaker 1: kind of had larger discussions earlier in the summer, and

1705
01:30:22,000 --> 01:30:25,160
Speaker 1: then after that we then had a list of fifteen

1706
01:30:25,360 --> 01:30:29,519
Speaker 1: high level concerns that were then including those plus more.

1707
01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:33,639
Speaker 1: They were voted on by the overall group to determine

1708
01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:36,280
Speaker 1: what the top five issues should be for the NDA

1709
01:30:36,400 --> 01:30:40,760
Speaker 1: to to really focus on moving forward. In the short term.

1710
01:30:40,800 --> 01:30:42,800
Speaker 1: So we've already kind of touched on these, but I'll

1711
01:30:42,800 --> 01:30:44,479
Speaker 1: just mention them again and then if if you want

1712
01:30:44,479 --> 01:30:47,400
Speaker 1: to touch on any of these anymore, Dan, we can. Um.

1713
01:30:47,439 --> 01:30:50,880
Speaker 1: The number one vote issue was hunter recruitment. The number

1714
01:30:50,920 --> 01:30:54,599
Speaker 1: two issue was the impact of politics on deer management.

1715
01:30:55,400 --> 01:30:59,439
Speaker 1: Number three was habitat loss in landscape changes. Number four

1716
01:30:59,560 --> 01:31:02,439
Speaker 1: was the look perception of hunting by the non hunting

1717
01:31:02,439 --> 01:31:05,400
Speaker 1: public and what that might mean for you know, the

1718
01:31:05,479 --> 01:31:08,200
Speaker 1: future of deer hunting. And then number five was the

1719
01:31:08,200 --> 01:31:12,040
Speaker 1: captive deer industry. So those are the five issues, and

1720
01:31:12,080 --> 01:31:15,040
Speaker 1: then the final part of Day two was going through

1721
01:31:15,040 --> 01:31:17,160
Speaker 1: each one of those issues and then spending about an

1722
01:31:17,160 --> 01:31:21,439
Speaker 1: hour on each issue brainstorming action items. So what are

1723
01:31:21,560 --> 01:31:25,600
Speaker 1: actual things we can do to to make progress on

1724
01:31:25,640 --> 01:31:29,240
Speaker 1: that issue? So do you think that we are making

1725
01:31:29,320 --> 01:31:31,760
Speaker 1: some of these things way more difficult than what they

1726
01:31:31,800 --> 01:31:36,559
Speaker 1: need to be, uh, because we've had a really good

1727
01:31:36,560 --> 01:31:39,960
Speaker 1: discussion and it's kind of been you know, we haven't

1728
01:31:40,240 --> 01:31:45,439
Speaker 1: we haven't really shared any any Uh, what's the word

1729
01:31:45,439 --> 01:31:49,760
Speaker 1: I'm looking for? Any advice or point of view from

1730
01:31:49,760 --> 01:31:53,320
Speaker 1: outside the hunting hunting, you know, outside like non hunters

1731
01:31:53,400 --> 01:31:57,679
Speaker 1: or or um captive deer breeders. But it just seems

1732
01:31:57,720 --> 01:32:02,040
Speaker 1: to me that some of these things are very simple.

1733
01:32:02,800 --> 01:32:05,040
Speaker 1: Here is a way to get the ball rolling in

1734
01:32:05,080 --> 01:32:09,200
Speaker 1: the right direction. But instead I just feel like because

1735
01:32:09,240 --> 01:32:14,680
Speaker 1: we're not united there, there's too many chiefs and not

1736
01:32:14,800 --> 01:32:18,920
Speaker 1: enough Indians, if that makes sense. Yeah, hear you're saying. Um,

1737
01:32:18,960 --> 01:32:20,840
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of truth to that. Yes,

1738
01:32:20,920 --> 01:32:22,600
Speaker 1: I mean that there's a lot of simple things that

1739
01:32:22,640 --> 01:32:25,000
Speaker 1: can happen, that could be done, but like you said,

1740
01:32:25,040 --> 01:32:29,480
Speaker 1: it acquires unification and just like make a step forward. Um.

1741
01:32:29,520 --> 01:32:31,400
Speaker 1: I think the challenges that it's hard to get to

1742
01:32:31,400 --> 01:32:36,400
Speaker 1: that point because even within the deer hunting community there's

1743
01:32:36,439 --> 01:32:39,400
Speaker 1: just a lot of different opinions on everything. Um. And

1744
01:32:39,479 --> 01:32:42,400
Speaker 1: So I mean, you know, take for example, you know,

1745
01:32:42,439 --> 01:32:44,280
Speaker 1: we we you know, the vote on these five issues.

1746
01:32:44,280 --> 01:32:45,960
Speaker 1: But then within within each one of these five issues

1747
01:32:46,000 --> 01:32:47,880
Speaker 1: is a million different points of view about how what

1748
01:32:48,000 --> 01:32:51,639
Speaker 1: that next step should be. UM. And so I think

1749
01:32:51,800 --> 01:32:54,400
Speaker 1: doing an event like this the Summit, where we're encouraging

1750
01:32:54,400 --> 01:32:57,680
Speaker 1: people to get involved and asking people to get involved, UM,

1751
01:32:57,720 --> 01:33:01,280
Speaker 1: that's a step in the right direction. Uh. Um. But

1752
01:33:01,360 --> 01:33:03,320
Speaker 1: there's there's still a lot, you know, a lot more

1753
01:33:03,320 --> 01:33:05,120
Speaker 1: to get done. And then the question then is and

1754
01:33:05,360 --> 01:33:09,000
Speaker 1: what the challenge with this next part was is that

1755
01:33:09,160 --> 01:33:11,519
Speaker 1: some of these things seem like simple, but at the

1756
01:33:11,560 --> 01:33:15,640
Speaker 1: same time, actually, you know, determining a step that an

1757
01:33:15,720 --> 01:33:18,680
Speaker 1: organization or group of people's can take that will make

1758
01:33:18,720 --> 01:33:22,599
Speaker 1: a meaningful difference, um, like an actual like very clear

1759
01:33:22,640 --> 01:33:26,479
Speaker 1: cut do X equals of why that that is sometimes

1760
01:33:26,560 --> 01:33:30,280
Speaker 1: easier said than done. Um. So, for example, the number

1761
01:33:30,320 --> 01:33:32,760
Speaker 1: one issue was hunter recruitment. How do we address the

1762
01:33:32,800 --> 01:33:35,680
Speaker 1: issue of the fact that fewer hunters are getting into

1763
01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:39,759
Speaker 1: hunting and there's a large number of hunters leaving hunting

1764
01:33:39,920 --> 01:33:42,120
Speaker 1: faster than we're growing it. How do we address that?

1765
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:45,280
Speaker 1: And there's a bunch of different ideas, but none of

1766
01:33:45,280 --> 01:33:47,639
Speaker 1: them were like a simple, easy fix. There's no way

1767
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:49,120
Speaker 1: to flip a switch and all of a sudden like

1768
01:33:49,479 --> 01:33:51,840
Speaker 1: everyone understands how great deer hunting is and hey, I

1769
01:33:51,840 --> 01:33:55,120
Speaker 1: want to get involved. Um to like something you mentioned

1770
01:33:55,120 --> 01:33:57,200
Speaker 1: a little bit earlier, Dan on the fact, like, you know,

1771
01:33:57,240 --> 01:33:59,760
Speaker 1: if we're getting new people into hunting, and if you

1772
01:33:59,840 --> 01:34:02,120
Speaker 1: took someone hunting, you would take them out, you would

1773
01:34:02,240 --> 01:34:05,160
Speaker 1: educate them about ethics, you would educate them about the process,

1774
01:34:05,200 --> 01:34:07,160
Speaker 1: you would educate them about how to do it the

1775
01:34:07,280 --> 01:34:11,880
Speaker 1: right way, how to handle that animal afterwards properly, you know,

1776
01:34:12,280 --> 01:34:15,000
Speaker 1: clean and gut and process that. Dear, I appreciate it.

1777
01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:18,160
Speaker 1: Afterwards you would talk through all these different things. Um,

1778
01:34:18,200 --> 01:34:22,479
Speaker 1: but finding mentors to do that to help new hunters

1779
01:34:22,760 --> 01:34:26,040
Speaker 1: is pretty darn hard because everyone's focused on them. Everyone's

1780
01:34:26,040 --> 01:34:29,720
Speaker 1: focused on my day, my property. Uh yeah, I want

1781
01:34:29,720 --> 01:34:31,120
Speaker 1: new hunters come out, but I don't want him to

1782
01:34:31,120 --> 01:34:33,280
Speaker 1: come to my spot. Um. You know, there's a lot

1783
01:34:33,280 --> 01:34:36,760
Speaker 1: of that. And then number two, even though we can say, well,

1784
01:34:36,760 --> 01:34:39,240
Speaker 1: we just need more mentors, well there's a challenges I

1785
01:34:39,280 --> 01:34:43,000
Speaker 1: just mentioned there. And then moving on, let's say let's

1786
01:34:43,000 --> 01:34:44,960
Speaker 1: say even in a great world, we do get a

1787
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:47,680
Speaker 1: bunch of new mentors, people like you or one of

1788
01:34:47,720 --> 01:34:49,640
Speaker 1: our listeners step up and say, yeah, I'll take us.

1789
01:34:49,640 --> 01:34:51,599
Speaker 1: I'll take someone on a new hunt, on a first hunt.

1790
01:34:52,280 --> 01:34:54,400
Speaker 1: You take them out there, they learn all this stuff,

1791
01:34:54,400 --> 01:34:58,200
Speaker 1: they have a great day. But if you're not there

1792
01:34:58,200 --> 01:34:59,760
Speaker 1: to take them out the next day or the next

1793
01:34:59,760 --> 01:35:03,280
Speaker 1: week end or the next weekend, those people that drop

1794
01:35:03,320 --> 01:35:06,719
Speaker 1: off because it's hard for someone who has no experience

1795
01:35:06,760 --> 01:35:08,559
Speaker 1: with deer hunting to go out once and then all

1796
01:35:08,600 --> 01:35:10,599
Speaker 1: of a sudden have all the tools necessary to become

1797
01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:12,680
Speaker 1: a lifelong hunter, they don't have a place to go,

1798
01:35:12,960 --> 01:35:14,519
Speaker 1: they don't know how to use a gun, or they

1799
01:35:14,600 --> 01:35:16,360
Speaker 1: might not feel comfortable going out in the woods by

1800
01:35:16,400 --> 01:35:18,200
Speaker 1: themselves in the middle of the night. They might not

1801
01:35:18,240 --> 01:35:20,120
Speaker 1: feel comfortable with one hunt and all of a sudden

1802
01:35:20,120 --> 01:35:21,920
Speaker 1: being able to gut name by themselves. So a lot

1803
01:35:21,960 --> 01:35:24,919
Speaker 1: of these things require not only a first time hunt experience,

1804
01:35:24,960 --> 01:35:28,160
Speaker 1: but they require a long term mentorship to hold their

1805
01:35:28,160 --> 01:35:31,799
Speaker 1: hand a little bit exactly. And that's an even greater

1806
01:35:31,880 --> 01:35:35,480
Speaker 1: ask for someone. So I mean, just in that one example,

1807
01:35:35,760 --> 01:35:37,679
Speaker 1: like even if we think the easy solutions take someone

1808
01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:39,479
Speaker 1: out hunting, well, even that might not work in a

1809
01:35:39,520 --> 01:35:42,400
Speaker 1: long term. So it's like all these different issues have

1810
01:35:42,560 --> 01:35:47,080
Speaker 1: got this cascade of but then what, but then what?

1811
01:35:47,920 --> 01:35:51,200
Speaker 1: And then what happens after that? And so yes, we

1812
01:35:51,240 --> 01:35:52,880
Speaker 1: need to take action, we need to take the first

1813
01:35:52,920 --> 01:35:56,040
Speaker 1: step to even get to the next one. But it's just, man,

1814
01:35:56,040 --> 01:36:01,120
Speaker 1: a few things are ever super easy, right right, So

1815
01:36:01,120 --> 01:36:03,720
Speaker 1: so I don't know. So those are the those are

1816
01:36:03,760 --> 01:36:05,879
Speaker 1: the five issues. We've talked a lot about hunter recruitment.

1817
01:36:05,880 --> 01:36:09,519
Speaker 1: I think, um, we could we could talk about two

1818
01:36:09,520 --> 01:36:12,200
Speaker 1: things here, dan Um here closing things out because we're

1819
01:36:12,240 --> 01:36:15,800
Speaker 1: already getting pretty long on on the show. We could

1820
01:36:15,800 --> 01:36:18,800
Speaker 1: either talk through with these five issues and offer any

1821
01:36:18,800 --> 01:36:23,080
Speaker 1: final thoughts on yours or my opinions on these um

1822
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:26,880
Speaker 1: or I could walk through the top three voted action

1823
01:36:26,920 --> 01:36:28,960
Speaker 1: items for each one of these issues as voted on

1824
01:36:29,040 --> 01:36:31,280
Speaker 1: by the summit and you know, see if that's something

1825
01:36:31,320 --> 01:36:32,840
Speaker 1: would be helpful for people to hear about, or that

1826
01:36:32,880 --> 01:36:36,400
Speaker 1: you and I might want to talk about um or

1827
01:36:36,439 --> 01:36:37,720
Speaker 1: we can just close the thing up. What do you

1828
01:36:37,720 --> 01:36:40,400
Speaker 1: think to well, I think I think one thing we

1829
01:36:40,439 --> 01:36:45,599
Speaker 1: need to do is tell something to our our viewers

1830
01:36:45,800 --> 01:36:50,080
Speaker 1: on what they can do to become involved. Because the

1831
01:36:50,200 --> 01:36:53,000
Speaker 1: things that are popping into my head right now is

1832
01:36:53,320 --> 01:36:55,559
Speaker 1: what you know? What you what you said? Like some

1833
01:36:55,640 --> 01:36:59,400
Speaker 1: of the hunting celebrities, you know, no one was there

1834
01:36:59,439 --> 01:37:01,880
Speaker 1: to represent that side of the industry, maybe not some

1835
01:37:01,960 --> 01:37:04,320
Speaker 1: of the big name owners of some of these companies.

1836
01:37:05,720 --> 01:37:09,479
Speaker 1: My challenge to the listeners would be to go to

1837
01:37:09,600 --> 01:37:14,040
Speaker 1: your go to your favorite hunting celebrities uh social media

1838
01:37:14,080 --> 01:37:17,000
Speaker 1: page and ask them if they are a member of

1839
01:37:17,160 --> 01:37:23,160
Speaker 1: the National Deer Alliance and maybe through friendly pressure, we

1840
01:37:23,200 --> 01:37:25,599
Speaker 1: can get more of those people involved because they rely

1841
01:37:25,720 --> 01:37:29,200
Speaker 1: on the resource more than you know, to make money too,

1842
01:37:29,560 --> 01:37:32,240
Speaker 1: you know, get and then that's how it kind of snowballs.

1843
01:37:33,160 --> 01:37:35,479
Speaker 1: We have to do our part to not only get involved,

1844
01:37:35,640 --> 01:37:39,840
Speaker 1: but then pass the buck and say, hey, so and

1845
01:37:39,880 --> 01:37:42,680
Speaker 1: so are you involved. It's very simple. All you have

1846
01:37:42,760 --> 01:37:45,679
Speaker 1: to do is go to their website and sign up. Yeah,

1847
01:37:45,720 --> 01:37:48,440
Speaker 1: that's a good point. I think that that is absolutely

1848
01:37:48,439 --> 01:37:51,720
Speaker 1: the first step is is getting involved in that capacity.

1849
01:37:52,200 --> 01:37:56,559
Speaker 1: And um, I do think that, you know, regardless of

1850
01:37:57,439 --> 01:37:59,160
Speaker 1: you know, whatever the thing with the National Deer a

1851
01:37:59,160 --> 01:38:01,800
Speaker 1: Liance is right now, the National Deer Lines is an

1852
01:38:01,880 --> 01:38:04,880
Speaker 1: organization to just try to get people involved and start

1853
01:38:04,920 --> 01:38:07,400
Speaker 1: talking about these things. So whether or not you agree

1854
01:38:07,840 --> 01:38:10,000
Speaker 1: on things that we've talked about with me or with Dan,

1855
01:38:10,080 --> 01:38:13,240
Speaker 1: we might have different opinions. Even if you completely disagree

1856
01:38:13,280 --> 01:38:15,960
Speaker 1: with everything I've personally said right now, you should still

1857
01:38:16,040 --> 01:38:18,760
Speaker 1: join the National Deer Lines just because that is a

1858
01:38:19,520 --> 01:38:22,960
Speaker 1: UM that organization is going to be a medium for

1859
01:38:23,000 --> 01:38:27,240
Speaker 1: people to discuss these issues and it's your voice exactly, so,

1860
01:38:27,240 --> 01:38:29,160
Speaker 1: so make sure you're part of that so you can

1861
01:38:29,200 --> 01:38:31,360
Speaker 1: make sure that your opinions on that are part of

1862
01:38:31,360 --> 01:38:34,360
Speaker 1: that larger voice. Um. And so right now, you know

1863
01:38:34,400 --> 01:38:37,160
Speaker 1: the National Deer Lines is still a fledgling organization, you know,

1864
01:38:37,400 --> 01:38:41,000
Speaker 1: just launched last summer, and you know, I've been able

1865
01:38:41,040 --> 01:38:42,759
Speaker 1: to see some of the stuff going on behind the scenes,

1866
01:38:42,800 --> 01:38:45,280
Speaker 1: and I had no idea. There's a crap ton of

1867
01:38:45,320 --> 01:38:48,599
Speaker 1: like foundational logistics that need to be taken care of

1868
01:38:48,600 --> 01:38:50,599
Speaker 1: on the back end for an organization like that just

1869
01:38:50,640 --> 01:38:53,800
Speaker 1: to get off the ground. Um, So there's not been

1870
01:38:53,800 --> 01:38:56,240
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that's happening like from a substantial

1871
01:38:56,439 --> 01:38:59,280
Speaker 1: like the National Deer Lines is standing up for X

1872
01:38:59,320 --> 01:39:03,559
Speaker 1: issue and has submitted these policy regulation recommendations and has

1873
01:39:03,560 --> 01:39:06,479
Speaker 1: sent these lobbyists to the Congress. That's not happening yet

1874
01:39:06,920 --> 01:39:10,240
Speaker 1: because it takes a ton of behind the scenes work

1875
01:39:10,600 --> 01:39:12,720
Speaker 1: just to get an organization like this started. So the

1876
01:39:12,800 --> 01:39:16,720
Speaker 1: organizations organization is getting started, it's getting its feet, but

1877
01:39:17,280 --> 01:39:19,479
Speaker 1: it needs members. It needs every single one of you

1878
01:39:19,520 --> 01:39:21,880
Speaker 1: who is listening right now to join the group and

1879
01:39:21,920 --> 01:39:25,000
Speaker 1: to start participating that conversation. You know, every week, an

1880
01:39:25,000 --> 01:39:27,280
Speaker 1: email goes out to the members of the n d

1881
01:39:27,400 --> 01:39:32,040
Speaker 1: A that does two things. Number one, it shares all

1882
01:39:32,120 --> 01:39:37,000
Speaker 1: the different news related items regarding deer happening that week.

1883
01:39:37,120 --> 01:39:40,599
Speaker 1: So every different policy change in different states, every different

1884
01:39:40,600 --> 01:39:45,599
Speaker 1: issue of debate, every different controversy or update or regulation change,

1885
01:39:45,800 --> 01:39:48,519
Speaker 1: those things are covered every single week. So if nothing else,

1886
01:39:48,600 --> 01:39:51,120
Speaker 1: everyone should just be educated on that, like sign up

1887
01:39:51,160 --> 01:39:53,200
Speaker 1: for no other reason just to get that update, because

1888
01:39:53,840 --> 01:39:55,519
Speaker 1: we need to know about the things that are happening

1889
01:39:55,520 --> 01:39:57,600
Speaker 1: in our state or within the states we hunt, or

1890
01:39:57,680 --> 01:39:59,720
Speaker 1: all across the country that might impact deer hunting. So

1891
01:39:59,800 --> 01:40:01,920
Speaker 1: that's the number one thing is from a very small

1892
01:40:02,000 --> 01:40:04,120
Speaker 1: little piece of what they're doing, they're just helping educate.

1893
01:40:05,040 --> 01:40:08,040
Speaker 1: And then number two, they're asking questions. There's a survey

1894
01:40:08,080 --> 01:40:10,880
Speaker 1: every week and there's different issues are pulled and survey

1895
01:40:11,000 --> 01:40:13,960
Speaker 1: to get the membership's opinion on that issue, to start

1896
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:16,760
Speaker 1: getting the voice better understood. And I know given my

1897
01:40:17,120 --> 01:40:20,320
Speaker 1: participation with the National Deer Lines that when those polls

1898
01:40:20,360 --> 01:40:23,519
Speaker 1: are taken, then the folks working for the NDA go

1899
01:40:23,560 --> 01:40:25,280
Speaker 1: back on their side and they say, Okay, let's look

1900
01:40:25,280 --> 01:40:27,280
Speaker 1: at these numbers. Let's look at what this means for

1901
01:40:27,360 --> 01:40:30,519
Speaker 1: the population of the deer of the Deer Lines is

1902
01:40:30,560 --> 01:40:34,320
Speaker 1: members and that is going to be factored into how

1903
01:40:34,360 --> 01:40:36,840
Speaker 1: decisions are made in the future, whether it be through

1904
01:40:37,280 --> 01:40:39,519
Speaker 1: you know, people sharing their opinions in the polls or

1905
01:40:39,920 --> 01:40:42,280
Speaker 1: in this case, going to the summit and being in

1906
01:40:42,360 --> 01:40:45,120
Speaker 1: participating in that event where actively you can vote in.

1907
01:40:45,160 --> 01:40:49,160
Speaker 1: Those things are actually determining the direction of this organization,

1908
01:40:49,680 --> 01:40:55,280
Speaker 1: which eventually, i'm it will be the largest deer conservation

1909
01:40:55,360 --> 01:40:58,280
Speaker 1: organization in the world, if not the largest conservation organization,

1910
01:40:58,280 --> 01:41:01,439
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of people behind this group right now,

1911
01:41:01,479 --> 01:41:04,639
Speaker 1: I mean everyone there just needs to be more people

1912
01:41:04,720 --> 01:41:08,040
Speaker 1: just you and me, Dan, more regular hunters. We need

1913
01:41:08,040 --> 01:41:10,000
Speaker 1: to make sure more of us are getting to be

1914
01:41:10,000 --> 01:41:12,960
Speaker 1: a part of it. But the people from a conservation

1915
01:41:13,000 --> 01:41:16,599
Speaker 1: organization standpoint in all the major industry foundations and groups

1916
01:41:16,600 --> 01:41:19,320
Speaker 1: and companies allow these people realize this is an important

1917
01:41:19,680 --> 01:41:22,160
Speaker 1: group and conversation that needs to be had. We just

1918
01:41:22,240 --> 01:41:26,760
Speaker 1: need to get more people to participate. And I hope

1919
01:41:26,800 --> 01:41:30,879
Speaker 1: that this long drawn out conversation about policies, politics and problems,

1920
01:41:30,920 --> 01:41:34,719
Speaker 1: if nothing else, will just remind all of us that

1921
01:41:34,920 --> 01:41:37,240
Speaker 1: we can't just focus on what's happening on my back

1922
01:41:37,280 --> 01:41:40,040
Speaker 1: forty but we also need to look at the bigger picture.

1923
01:41:40,400 --> 01:41:43,920
Speaker 1: And the one smallest tiny step of moving in that

1924
01:41:43,960 --> 01:41:47,240
Speaker 1: direction is to join the India. Do you know how

1925
01:41:47,280 --> 01:41:50,720
Speaker 1: how many current members there are? I don't know the

1926
01:41:50,720 --> 01:41:54,200
Speaker 1: exact number, whatever it is, it's not enough. It's not enough.

1927
01:41:54,439 --> 01:41:58,719
Speaker 1: I do know that, UM, And there's eleven million, somewhere

1928
01:41:58,720 --> 01:42:02,360
Speaker 1: over eleven million deer hunters. And for sure, I mean,

1929
01:42:02,439 --> 01:42:06,439
Speaker 1: I know that the Quality Deer Management Association has over

1930
01:42:06,479 --> 01:42:09,639
Speaker 1: sixty thousand members. I know they announced that the convention

1931
01:42:09,640 --> 01:42:12,240
Speaker 1: that they had this past weekend. UM. I don't know

1932
01:42:12,280 --> 01:42:16,680
Speaker 1: what the white Tails unlimited number is, but sixty is

1933
01:42:17,120 --> 01:42:19,519
Speaker 1: sixty tho members of QTM, which has been around since

1934
01:42:19,560 --> 01:42:24,000
Speaker 1: the eighties. So and that's that's not even you know,

1935
01:42:24,040 --> 01:42:28,479
Speaker 1: that's not even of the overall deer population. So I

1936
01:42:28,479 --> 01:42:33,040
Speaker 1: think you know, there's just even if a million deer hunters,

1937
01:42:33,120 --> 01:42:35,719
Speaker 1: if less than a tenth of all deer hunters would

1938
01:42:35,800 --> 01:42:38,400
Speaker 1: give a crap, that would be a million members of

1939
01:42:38,439 --> 01:42:40,240
Speaker 1: the n d A. And that's a voice that that

1940
01:42:40,320 --> 01:42:42,479
Speaker 1: will be heard. If you have a million strong members,

1941
01:42:42,560 --> 01:42:46,200
Speaker 1: that's something that is hard to ignore. UM. I see

1942
01:42:46,240 --> 01:42:48,280
Speaker 1: no reason why there shouldn't be that many people who

1943
01:42:48,320 --> 01:42:51,519
Speaker 1: care enough to at least participate in the conversation. Right.

1944
01:42:52,280 --> 01:42:59,240
Speaker 1: So so there's that I guess, big issues, big topics issues,

1945
01:42:59,360 --> 01:43:02,439
Speaker 1: and you know, it all comes down to if if

1946
01:43:02,439 --> 01:43:05,559
Speaker 1: you want your way of life to continue to go

1947
01:43:06,240 --> 01:43:08,960
Speaker 1: the way it's going, you have to be you have

1948
01:43:09,040 --> 01:43:12,760
Speaker 1: to do something about it, because if you're not, one

1949
01:43:12,800 --> 01:43:17,160
Speaker 1: day you're going to wake up and you're not gonna

1950
01:43:17,160 --> 01:43:20,160
Speaker 1: be able to go hunting anymore. And then I would

1951
01:43:20,200 --> 01:43:24,960
Speaker 1: be a felon because I would go hunting anyway. And uh,

1952
01:43:25,160 --> 01:43:28,240
Speaker 1: we don't. We don't want We don't want that. I mean,

1953
01:43:28,240 --> 01:43:30,240
Speaker 1: it's it's true, though it's it's scary, and I hate

1954
01:43:30,240 --> 01:43:34,000
Speaker 1: to keep harping on this, but I believe it is

1955
01:43:34,000 --> 01:43:37,920
Speaker 1: in the other of Americans don't hunt. They have no

1956
01:43:37,960 --> 01:43:42,040
Speaker 1: experience with hunting, and that means that there's only four

1957
01:43:42,080 --> 01:43:46,120
Speaker 1: percent of us who really care about this. And if

1958
01:43:46,120 --> 01:43:49,759
Speaker 1: we don't protect that, and if we don't um work together,

1959
01:43:50,560 --> 01:43:53,439
Speaker 1: if we don't educate those who don't hunt, even if

1960
01:43:53,479 --> 01:43:55,360
Speaker 1: they don't become hunters, if nothing else, we need to

1961
01:43:55,400 --> 01:43:58,559
Speaker 1: make sure they're educated properly so they'll at least understand

1962
01:43:58,600 --> 01:44:01,040
Speaker 1: our way of thinking. If we're not doing those things,

1963
01:44:01,880 --> 01:44:03,920
Speaker 1: we don't even have a semblance of majority. We are

1964
01:44:03,960 --> 01:44:06,680
Speaker 1: the tiniest of minorities. So when it comes in a

1965
01:44:06,720 --> 01:44:09,960
Speaker 1: democracy like we live in, where majority rules, we're a

1966
01:44:10,080 --> 01:44:12,840
Speaker 1: very tenuous position. If all of a sudden, our way

1967
01:44:12,840 --> 01:44:17,439
Speaker 1: of thinking, you know, is not is not you know,

1968
01:44:17,560 --> 01:44:23,240
Speaker 1: properly believed or respected in the greater population. So it's

1969
01:44:23,280 --> 01:44:25,160
Speaker 1: just stuff you gotta think about. And I know it's

1970
01:44:25,240 --> 01:44:27,360
Speaker 1: it's it's a bummer of a conversation. It's not as

1971
01:44:27,400 --> 01:44:30,559
Speaker 1: much fun as patterning mature bucks. And I'm not we're

1972
01:44:30,560 --> 01:44:32,479
Speaker 1: not helping anyone today. You know, have a great deer

1973
01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:36,600
Speaker 1: hunting season, probably, UM, But sometimes you gotta take a

1974
01:44:36,640 --> 01:44:40,320
Speaker 1: step back and and talk about these things. It's part

1975
01:44:40,320 --> 01:44:44,479
Speaker 1: of it. Yes, it is. So I think I think

1976
01:44:44,479 --> 01:44:46,719
Speaker 1: that probably is is enough for us to cover today.

1977
01:44:46,760 --> 01:44:48,400
Speaker 1: There's a lot of other stuff going on. Every one

1978
01:44:48,400 --> 01:44:50,439
Speaker 1: of these issues has got a million different opinions and

1979
01:44:50,479 --> 01:44:52,800
Speaker 1: perspectives on it. And you know, we both shared a

1980
01:44:52,800 --> 01:44:55,080
Speaker 1: couple of our opinions. By no means, you know, am

1981
01:44:55,080 --> 01:44:56,840
Speaker 1: I and I don't think you are either one of us.

1982
01:44:56,840 --> 01:44:58,720
Speaker 1: Aren't claiming to know it all. We're not claiming to

1983
01:44:58,760 --> 01:45:01,680
Speaker 1: have the right answer. We just have our perspectives and

1984
01:45:01,720 --> 01:45:04,800
Speaker 1: our experiences that we can pull from. UM and I

1985
01:45:04,840 --> 01:45:07,080
Speaker 1: totally understand that some of you listening probably think some

1986
01:45:07,120 --> 01:45:09,320
Speaker 1: different things. And and that's okay too. I get that

1987
01:45:09,840 --> 01:45:12,439
Speaker 1: UM and I respect that, and I think if we

1988
01:45:12,479 --> 01:45:16,680
Speaker 1: can all agree to respect each other's different opinions but

1989
01:45:16,720 --> 01:45:19,280
Speaker 1: at least have the conversation, we'll be moving in a

1990
01:45:19,280 --> 01:45:23,880
Speaker 1: positive direction. So I think that is my closing thought

1991
01:45:24,200 --> 01:45:28,880
Speaker 1: on deer hunting policies, politics and problems. Do you have

1992
01:45:28,920 --> 01:45:33,599
Speaker 1: anything else you want to close with? Dan? Nope? Al right,

1993
01:45:33,880 --> 01:45:37,160
Speaker 1: well then that is going to do it for us

1994
01:45:37,200 --> 01:45:40,360
Speaker 1: today on the Weird Hunt podcast. Um, there are some

1995
01:45:40,439 --> 01:45:42,639
Speaker 1: different articles that have been written already about the summit

1996
01:45:42,760 --> 01:45:44,960
Speaker 1: that summarize some of the different things I talked about

1997
01:45:44,960 --> 01:45:47,600
Speaker 1: and and provide some details. I should have had my

1998
01:45:47,640 --> 01:45:49,519
Speaker 1: notes prepared and had some of these stats and things,

1999
01:45:49,600 --> 01:45:51,960
Speaker 1: but I just forgot. It's been busy day. So if

2000
01:45:52,000 --> 01:45:53,840
Speaker 1: you want to see some more of those details, I'll

2001
01:45:53,880 --> 01:45:56,240
Speaker 1: put some links in the show notes today. Uh and

2002
01:45:56,320 --> 01:45:59,000
Speaker 1: that will be at Weird two Hunt dot com slash

2003
01:45:59,080 --> 01:46:02,000
Speaker 1: episode fifty five. So go to Wired Hunt dot com

2004
01:46:02,000 --> 01:46:04,479
Speaker 1: slash episode fifty five for the show notes and links

2005
01:46:04,520 --> 01:46:07,519
Speaker 1: to some more information about the summit and these issues.

2006
01:46:08,560 --> 01:46:11,200
Speaker 1: As always, we also like to thank our partners who

2007
01:46:11,240 --> 01:46:13,840
Speaker 1: do help keep the Wired Hunt podcast on the air.

2008
01:46:14,840 --> 01:46:17,960
Speaker 1: Big thank you to our partners, Sick of Gear, Trophy Bridge,

2009
01:46:18,120 --> 01:46:22,559
Speaker 1: Bear Archery, Redneck Blinds, Hunt, Terra Maps, Osonics, Carbon Express,

2010
01:46:22,640 --> 01:46:26,120
Speaker 1: Lacrosse Boots, and the White Tail Institute of North America.

2011
01:46:26,320 --> 01:46:30,320
Speaker 1: And finally, and most importantly, think you to all of

2012
01:46:30,320 --> 01:46:32,760
Speaker 1: you listening in today, we appreciate it. We appreciate you

2013
01:46:32,800 --> 01:46:35,800
Speaker 1: listen to me and Dan Rant for maybe agreeing to

2014
01:46:35,840 --> 01:46:38,599
Speaker 1: disagree with us, for maybe agreeing with us and some things,

2015
01:46:38,680 --> 01:46:41,440
Speaker 1: for maybe reaching out and sharing your opinions and perspectives

2016
01:46:41,479 --> 01:46:44,160
Speaker 1: and being part of this larger conversation. Thanks for doing that.

2017
01:46:44,160 --> 01:46:48,400
Speaker 1: That's important and we appreciate that. And as we talked about,

2018
01:46:48,439 --> 01:46:50,280
Speaker 1: I really do hope that you all will take the

2019
01:46:50,280 --> 01:46:52,600
Speaker 1: time to get more engaged with what's going on in

2020
01:46:52,640 --> 01:46:55,719
Speaker 1: the larger deer hunting community. You know, make your voice heard,

2021
01:46:56,320 --> 01:46:59,040
Speaker 1: get involved. And if you're not already, you know, as

2022
01:46:59,160 --> 01:47:01,080
Speaker 1: Dan and I have both that we had encourage you

2023
01:47:01,120 --> 01:47:03,360
Speaker 1: to join the National Deer Alliance just to just to

2024
01:47:03,479 --> 01:47:06,920
Speaker 1: get better involved in that conversation. And finally, and with

2025
01:47:06,960 --> 01:47:09,679
Speaker 1: all that said, get out there, have an awesome week,

2026
01:47:10,240 --> 01:47:15,200
Speaker 1: spend some time outside, and as always, stay wired to hunt.