WEBVTT - The Big Lie of White Exceptionalism 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:14.680 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to WIKA F Daily with 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:19.439 Meet your Girl Danielle Moody recording from the Brooklyn Bunker. Folks, 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:23.400 interesting poll numbers have come out this week with regard 0:00:23.480 --> 0:00:27.520 to President Biden and the fact that a majority of 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:30.880 Americans do not think that he is doing a good job. 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:35.520 That comes on the heels of many Democratic governors deciding 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:39.279 that guess what, COVID's over and so much in the 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:43.520 same way that news broke about Coachella and stagecoach not 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:47.800 using any COVID nineteen precautions, basically saying that you're going 0:00:47.840 --> 0:00:50.839 to come and party with us at Coachella at your 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:54.840 own risk. Democratic governors are now doing the very same 0:00:54.880 --> 0:00:58.680 thing where they are getting rid of their mask mandates 0:00:58.760 --> 0:01:02.560 because people are quote unquote tired. I don't know how 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:05.760 many times that we have to go through and repeat 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:09.480 the same behaviors over and over again expecting a different result. 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:12.759 That is, in fact the definition of insanity. And that's 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:17.000 the way that our politicians, whether they be Republican or Democrat, 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:20.800 have been operating over the last couple of months. You 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:25.000 had the omicron variant that yes, was it less deadly 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:29.240 for those that were vaccinated and boosted, of course, but 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:33.880 did it give us some insight into how this virus 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.600 has been mutating, which is that each iteration becomes more 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.479 and more contagious, and that the thing that protects us 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:47.440 all is wearing masks. Right, Social distancing for a while 0:01:47.520 --> 0:01:50.680 now has not been a thing, but masks and particularly 0:01:50.720 --> 0:01:53.440 those that are not cloth, but our K ninety five 0:01:53.520 --> 0:01:57.160 or ninety five masks, have been keeping people safe. So 0:01:57.240 --> 0:02:01.800 why is it that now once people again have adapted 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:05.880 to these rules, have adapted to this reality, have become 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:10.600 accustomed to it, whether it be on public transportation federally 0:02:10.720 --> 0:02:15.520 regulated public transportation like airlines, why we would decide now, 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:19.160 at a time when the omicron surge in many parts 0:02:19.160 --> 0:02:23.000 of the country is now on the decline, that we 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:27.520 would turn around and start the same behavior that we 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:31.800 had before, let our guards down, and then in a 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:34.760 couple of months when news breaks that there is some 0:02:34.840 --> 0:02:39.119 other new variant that is incredibly deadly, that is all 0:02:39.160 --> 0:02:41.800 of the things, then trying to get those same people 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:44.679 to go back to doing what it was that they've 0:02:44.720 --> 0:02:46.639 been doing for the past two years is going to 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:50.000 be damn near impossible. But you know who cares because 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:52.640 midterms are in a couple of months, and that's apparently 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:56.079 the only thing that politicians care about. I am so 0:02:56.639 --> 0:03:02.040 aggravated with this entire situation and scenario, just people believing 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:05.560 that they can have what mind over matter like the 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.560 virus gives a fuck. But you know what I think 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:13.480 at this stage in the pandemic two years in that 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:16.320 what we have learned is that no one is going 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:19.760 to protect you. No one other than yourself is going 0:03:19.800 --> 0:03:22.720 to have your best interests and your public health and 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:26.720 safety in mind. Everyone else is out to make a 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:32.880 dollar or get a vote, right, And so basically, politicians, businesses, 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:36.360 all of them are just gambling right on your well being. 0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.840 So if at this point you are still looking for 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:44.000 guidance right, whether it be from the president, your governor, 0:03:44.000 --> 0:03:47.680 your school board, or what have you, then you are 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:50.880 looking in the wrong place. You're looking outward when you 0:03:50.920 --> 0:03:54.800 need to be looking inward. I no longer trust any 0:03:54.840 --> 0:03:56.680 of these outlets. I'm going to be honest with you. 0:03:56.760 --> 0:03:59.080 I'm not trying to spread misinformation, but I'm going to 0:03:59.160 --> 0:04:04.920 be real. I don't know what is provoking the decisions 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:07.240 that are being made, because I don't think that it's 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:10.440 public health. I don't think that people are following the science. 0:04:10.720 --> 0:04:13.640 Do I think that, yeah, there are ways that we 0:04:13.760 --> 0:04:19.240 can adapt to this new normal, Yes, absolutely, But to 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:23.200 pretend that COVID no longer exists, to just throw up 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:28.919 your hands, you know, democratic governors and fucking concert venues 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.279 and just be like, oh, we're just over it. Watch 0:04:32.320 --> 0:04:35.120 and wait, is all I will say on that Watch 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:39.880 and wait. You know, I was reading Political Playbook like 0:04:39.960 --> 0:04:44.680 I do most mornings, and you know, another alarming piece 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:48.080 of news has come to my attention. But you know, 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:51.400 it's a same old, same old story of how terrible 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:55.120 Democrats are at messaging. And the question that Political was 0:04:55.200 --> 0:04:59.520 posing was whether or not Democrats were going to come 0:04:59.640 --> 0:05:04.680 up with a response to the culture wars that Republicans 0:05:04.720 --> 0:05:08.039 are waging. That's number one, and number two, whether or 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:10.800 not Republicans we're going to give up the ghost, give 0:05:10.880 --> 0:05:13.800 up Donald Trump, and figure out who else is going 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:17.000 to be the leader of this party. I think that 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:21.800 those are the wrong questions to be asking. One. I 0:05:21.839 --> 0:05:24.960 think that if anybody with eyes ears riot have been 0:05:25.000 --> 0:05:28.120 paying attention to what Republicans have been up to over 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:30.400 the past five plus years, and if you want to 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:33.240 include the Obama years, which is when we got our 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:36.520 first inkling into the direction that this party was headed. 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:40.680 The fact that Politico is still flinked framing the Republican 0:05:40.720 --> 0:05:43.560 Party as an actual party and not a cult that 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.720 is hell bent not on culture wars, but on creating 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:51.560 a civil war two point zero, on using their misinformation, 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:56.960 using their racism, using their misogyny, and weaponizing the pandemic. 0:05:57.000 --> 0:06:01.840 The fact that still in fucking twenty two, now that 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:06.920 years after living through the Trump administration, after living through 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:11.800 the insurrection, that we're still not calling out what Republicans 0:06:11.839 --> 0:06:16.240 are doing as dangerous to our democracy and still framing 0:06:16.279 --> 0:06:18.800 a narrative that makes it seem as if there are 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:22.640 two equal sides to the preservation of our republic is 0:06:22.720 --> 0:06:28.000 bullshit and it is just bad journalism. How about that? 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:32.080 How about it just as bad journalism to continue to 0:06:32.120 --> 0:06:36.520 frame it as if we have two cohesive, normal political 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:41.120 parties where one isn't about the entirety of our democracy 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:46.080 just being destroyed, blown up with your voter suppression, your racism, 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:50.960 your celebration of anti semitism, islamophobia, all of these things. 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:54.120 The fact that you have outlets that are now by 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:59.080 the way Politico has been bought right by the Murdochs. 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:03.800 The fact that you are having these outlets, still have 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:08.000 casual conversation like this is a normal midterm season that 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:12.840 we're in is so frustrating and it's just fucking false. Right, 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:17.520 And then Democrats still twirling their thumbs, right, twiddling their 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.480 thumbs as if we don't have a sense of urgency, 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:24.840 as if you haven't recognized that Republicans are using the 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:29.240 same playbook they've been using for the last four fucking decades, right, 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:33.640 except now they've utilized technology so that their misinformation and 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:38.200 their hate can spread faster. Why is it right that 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:43.720 following the very eye opening campaign of Glenn Yuncan in 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:48.960 Virginia and his win after the Obama coalition successfully had 0:07:49.040 --> 0:07:53.200 courted the state of Virginia into the blue column, how 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.560 you don't pay attention to the misgivings there and think 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:59.640 that running old candidates is not a fucking thing, It 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:03.560 doesn't excite the base. How about paying attention to your 0:08:03.600 --> 0:08:06.680 base in the same way that Republicans pay attention to 0:08:06.920 --> 0:08:10.120 and are scared shitless of their base. How about doing that? 0:08:10.320 --> 0:08:14.680 How about not just pretending right that you can shrug 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:18.600 off their attempts at quote unquote parental control and not 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:22.160 likening that to the way that white parents were riled 0:08:22.240 --> 0:08:26.080 up in the nineteen fifties about school integration. How is 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.720 it that Democrats are still sitting around wondering what to 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:35.840 do or thinking that ignoring the claims and the lies 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:39.839 that Republicans are throwing out is somehow a winning strategy. 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:43.800 It isn't. And you know what I saw this week 0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:48.240 as well. I follow Congresswoman Corey Bush, who has been 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:51.760 a guest on the show, follow her on Instagram, and 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.520 she posted a tweet that she had tweeted earlier in 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:58.600 the week, which that saying basically that Democrats who are 0:08:58.640 --> 0:09:02.240 trying to out republic look in Republicans is not a 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:06.240 strategy that is going to win, right, And I'm just like, no, 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:09.240 it's not. And how is it that everyone else sees that? 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:14.200 And yet there's no pivot, there's no stop pivot and 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:20.000 reflect right on how we need to utilize our heavy 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:27.120 hitters like Corey Bush, like aoc to teleb, like all 0:09:27.160 --> 0:09:30.280 of these people like il Han, right, these people who 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:33.520 are savvy, who are smart, who know how to communicate, 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.079 who have large followings How is it that they are 0:09:36.160 --> 0:09:42.160 not in charge of democratic messaging right so that everyone 0:09:42.200 --> 0:09:45.920 else can then follow suit. I don't get it. I 0:09:45.960 --> 0:09:48.480 don't get it, but you know I do because it 0:09:48.600 --> 0:09:52.439 is the old guard, right, the Octanagarians who are still 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:55.000 in charge of the gavel and who are still have 0:09:55.400 --> 0:09:59.000 the bully pulpit, but they're not using it in the 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.960 right way to compete with the tactics of the twenty 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:05.079 first century. They just are not. And it is evident 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:09.280 that Schumer doesn't do it, Pelosi doesn't do it, Biden 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.960 isn't doing it. No one is painting the Republicans as 0:10:13.000 --> 0:10:17.319 who they are, a threat to our democracy, a racist 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:21.960 right reimagining of America that is going to be worse 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:25.080 than the first round of Jim Crowe. How is it 0:10:25.280 --> 0:10:29.880 that the same administration, the same candidate that said I'm 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:31.800 in it for the battle of the soul of this 0:10:31.920 --> 0:10:35.840 nation does not get what it is that Republicans are doing, 0:10:36.400 --> 0:10:40.520 Which brings me to my guest coming up today, Really 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:44.840 excited for you all to hear this conversation with a podcaster, 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:48.600 Julie Koehler, who is the co host of the podcast 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:54.240 White Picket Fence and White picket Fence Right seeks to 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:59.640 really uncover right the lies that white people have been told, 0:11:00.040 --> 0:11:03.600 to really unpack it. In their first season, it was 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:08.920 busting the myth around white women being progressive and voting Democrat, 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:12.280 where Julie will tell us that hasn't happened in forty 0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:17.360 years now. Anybody paying attention to politics inside the Beltway 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:22.200 understands that fact. So then the question is, if those 0:11:22.240 --> 0:11:25.160 are the data points, then why does the Democratic Party 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.280 still try and court Karen as if Karen is trying 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:30.520 to go to the dance with you, she ain't and 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:36.200 she hasn't in forty years. Right. The second season of 0:11:36.280 --> 0:11:41.000 White picket Fence was an examination into how families right 0:11:41.320 --> 0:11:46.160 have shifted during the time of the global health pandemic, 0:11:46.280 --> 0:11:50.360 Schooling kids at home, the realization that we don't really 0:11:50.520 --> 0:11:53.240 care about kids in this country outside of the womb, 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:57.400 because if we did, right, if we actually believed the 0:11:57.400 --> 0:12:00.440 mantra that children are our future, then maybe we wouldn't 0:12:00.480 --> 0:12:05.160 have had fights over the child tax credit or you know, 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:08.479 having parent to leave. As one of the only industrial 0:12:08.600 --> 0:12:12.839 nations that does not have that guaranteed right, there are 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:17.600 countries that offer a year six months in America six 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.760 weeks and we're telling you to stuff your baby in 0:12:21.200 --> 0:12:24.280 somebody else's care, right, and for you to make just 0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:27.120 enough money to be able to cover that, but nothing else. 0:12:27.640 --> 0:12:32.000 And we've accepted that, we've accepted that reality as the norm, 0:12:32.880 --> 0:12:36.440 and it shouldn't be. And so that is the second 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:42.040 season of White Picket Fence, And Julie and I on 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.800 today's show, we'll get into a conversation about white privilege, 0:12:46.080 --> 0:12:51.240 about white guilt, about how we hold up a mirror 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:57.200 to white America and say, look at yourself. You are 0:12:57.480 --> 0:13:03.240 both responsible for some good and some devastating violence. How 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:06.120 is it that white people cannot see themselves as fully 0:13:06.200 --> 0:13:12.760 dimensional humans? Right? Earlier this week, you know, I was 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:18.880 sent a bunch of clips of the young black boy, 0:13:19.559 --> 0:13:22.199 and I believe it was in New Jersey at a 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.560 mall who got into an altercation with a white boy. 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.679 Cops were called and guests who ended up in handcuffs 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:32.920 for thirty minutes. Right, guess who was ushered and spoken 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:36.319 to and probably a very respectful manner. What did that 0:13:36.440 --> 0:13:38.640 black boy do to you? And I'm sure that that 0:13:38.720 --> 0:13:42.560 wasn't the language that was used. Right. Why is it 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:47.280 that in policing. It is so common for you to 0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:54.320 have white police officers refer to white boys as son right, 0:13:54.679 --> 0:13:58.120 to look at them as a reflection of themselves, and 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:01.120 to see black people, regardless of the situation that they 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:04.680 walk up into, as the aggressor the one that needs 0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.040 to be put down. And you want to tell me 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:10.280 that policing doesn't need reform in this country. How many 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:13.720 fucking times do we need to see these videos? How 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:18.280 many fucking black people need to lose their lives? Right? 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:22.720 And I'm just you know, I'm just tired, right, Like 0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:27.320 I'm literally exhausted, as I know so many black people 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:31.400 are by the bullshit, Like we can't get anywhere because 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:33.920 we have to still convince white people of their own 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:40.080 moral monster behavior, right, as James Baldwin said, moral monsters, 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.920 fucking gaslighting the people that you are abusing, as to 0:14:43.960 --> 0:14:46.560 tell us that we're just too sensitive and there's no 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:50.320 abuse happening. But we run video after video after video, 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:53.920 victim after victim after victim of white supremacy, only to 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:57.280 tell only to have them tell us, oh, we're kind 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:59.800 of interested, and we'll march with you for a good too, 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:02.120 and then we're going to go back to our lives 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:05.400 because it's too inconvenient for us to really unpack the 0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.760 hard truths of this nation. I'm just tired of it. 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:13.080 And I said yesterday, you know, I can't imagine the 0:15:13.120 --> 0:15:16.720 trauma that that young boy felt. I have no idea 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:19.840 what the cause of the fight was. I don't really 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:22.760 fucking care. All I know is that if cops roll 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:26.240 up to a fucking situation and there are a black 0:15:26.320 --> 0:15:29.480 kid and a white kid, right that are that are 0:15:29.520 --> 0:15:32.400 interlocked in violence, then both of them should be sat down, 0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:35.480 both of them, right, should be handled in the same way. 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.840 Why is that so fucking difficult? Why racism? Right? But 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:43.720 white people will look for every other excuse right as 0:15:43.760 --> 0:15:47.800 to tell you why black people should continue to be brutalized. Right, 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:52.280 they will look for every other reason. Oh he was big, 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:56.160 Oh we thought he was older. Oh this it's bullshit, 0:15:56.360 --> 0:16:02.280 it's racism. Just look in the mirror, you know it. 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:06.280 I got to tell you that with each advance that 0:16:06.440 --> 0:16:09.960 is made, with each you know, a couple of steps 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.000 forward that we make in this country, it just seems 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:17.320 that we just boomerang right back to the beginning. And look, 0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.920 I know, and I talk to people who have been 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:25.080 active in the civil rights movement, you know, for their 0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:28.520 entire lives for the last sixty plus years, right, because 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.840 we in America love to believe that Jim Prow was 0:16:31.920 --> 0:16:36.080 so long ago. Meanwhile, most of us have you know, parents, 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:39.720 grandparents who all grew up in that that are still 0:16:39.800 --> 0:16:44.800 fucking alive. Right. So America's racist history wasn't a hundreds 0:16:44.840 --> 0:16:48.880 of years ago. It was just the other day, and 0:16:48.960 --> 0:16:54.880 we need to wake up to that reality, folks. I'm 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:57.800 very excited to welcome to Okay f Daily for the 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.360 first time, Julie Kohler, who is the host of the 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:06.480 podcast White Picket Fence with Wonder Media, a podcast that 0:17:06.600 --> 0:17:10.400 really does an interesting job of looking into the issues 0:17:10.800 --> 0:17:15.320 that are affecting women, that are affecting our society, UM. 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:20.119 Talking about difficult conversations about race, white privilege, UM, and 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:23.440 you know, and family, right and how our family in 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:29.120 the latest season, how families were impacted during the last 0:17:29.119 --> 0:17:33.320 two plus years of living in a pandemic. Julie, welcome, 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:35.639 Thank you so much. It's great to be with you. 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.680 It is great to have you so talk to me 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.359 about White Picket Fence. First of all, like I just said, 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:46.440 before the name Stellar. I can't I can't believe that 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:51.000 that name was not taken UM like one hundred is 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:55.439 it is so fantastic talk to us about um the 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:59.720 ideas and the themes behind white picket Fence. Yeah, thank 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:02.240 you so much. So, you know, I think the name 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:05.560 sort of gives a hint at some of the ideologies 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.440 that we really work to unpack in the podcast while 0:18:08.480 --> 0:18:11.280 examining a few different topics. So the first season of 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:14.720 our podcast really was a deep dive into the politics 0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:17.639 of white women and what we call the fractured and 0:18:17.720 --> 0:18:20.560 often frustrating politics in the way that those politics are 0:18:20.600 --> 0:18:23.800 manifest in our society. I think there is kind of 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:28.600 a myth that white women are more progressive often than 0:18:28.640 --> 0:18:31.440 white men. And while we do see some gender differences 0:18:31.440 --> 0:18:33.840 in how white women and white men vote, you know, 0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.760 the majority of white women for the last forty years 0:18:37.800 --> 0:18:41.159 have voted Republican, and we tend to kind of be 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:43.600 a little bit surprised by that. And so we really 0:18:43.600 --> 0:18:47.400 did a deep dive into, you know, the ideologies that 0:18:47.560 --> 0:18:51.160 shape white women's politics and you know, kind of how 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:54.680 that continues in today's society. And in the second season 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:57.800 of the podcast, which just aired this past winter. We 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:00.679 take we take a look at a lot of the 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:04.320 same ideologies that we examined in the first season about race, 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:09.480 about gender, about families, about our economy, and white women, 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:12.600 white womanhood, and we really look at how that has 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:18.439 prevented public investment in the kind of family supports, the 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:23.040 kind of what we now call care infrastructure, childcare, family leave, 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:27.359 the child tax credit benefits that would make family life 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:31.040 so much easier for the vast majority of us. Why 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:35.399 has that been so challenging? And obviously the pandemic brought 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:37.719 this to a head. So many of us have been 0:19:37.760 --> 0:19:41.840 suffering so deeply during the pandemic, And we really take 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.800 a critical lens at you know, why here we are, 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:49.760 fifty years later after the national childcare was first proposed 0:19:49.760 --> 0:19:55.200 and passed by bipartisan majorities in Congress. Why we're still 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:57.320 coming up short, and why this is still a fight 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:00.600 fifty years later. You know, Julia want to I want 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:05.080 to dig into your first season. And I say that because, um, 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:08.240 you know, I am no and anybody that has listened 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:12.000 to woke f or democracy ish I go after white 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:14.919 women a lot um and I think for the for 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.879 the main reason that you stated at the at the 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:21.400 opening that there is this belief, um, and I don't 0:20:21.400 --> 0:20:24.880 know where it came from, So hopefully you can provide 0:20:24.920 --> 0:20:29.040 some insight, um, this belief that white women are more 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:34.000 progressive than they are right when we have said for decades, 0:20:34.160 --> 0:20:38.400 those people that are embedded in politics have known that, 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:44.600 particularly married, straight white women vote alongside their husbands. Right. 0:20:45.080 --> 0:20:50.720 I wrote a piece following the twenty sixteen election, which 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:55.560 I think again was this startling, eye opening, you know moment, 0:20:55.880 --> 0:20:59.160 not just for you know, for for our country obviously, 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:01.960 but for the world, for our country and the fact 0:21:01.960 --> 0:21:06.600 that oh my god, we had a white woman on 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:11.920 the ballot. You could see a reflection of yourself, right, yeah, 0:21:12.080 --> 0:21:18.080 finally to become madam president. And over fifty percent of 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:24.639 white women voted for Donald Trump, an outward celebrated misogynist. 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:28.640 So you know, Julie, what what came up for you 0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:34.800 in your first season kind of research and investigation about 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:37.760 the why here? And is it is? And do you 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:41.360 feel like we need to unpack the why to kind 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:44.440 of let go of the myth so that we can 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:47.600 so that we can move on. That's absolutely right. I 0:21:47.640 --> 0:21:50.560 think we have to first have a very cleared eyed 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:54.400 analysis of what is happening if we want to effect change. 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.040 And so I wanted to put the twenty sixteen election, 0:21:57.119 --> 0:22:00.560 which was I think, you know, once again sort of 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:02.600 a surprise to many of the kind of you know, 0:22:02.720 --> 0:22:06.359 political chattering class, although not too many, sort of deeply 0:22:06.680 --> 0:22:11.600 entrenched in in movement politics, that yes, a majority of 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:17.360 white women voted for Donald Trump, despite or perhaps because of, 0:22:17.400 --> 0:22:20.760 his positions that white women, and I wanted to put 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:24.359 it in a context of of, you know, white women 0:22:24.400 --> 0:22:27.879 have long been complicit and not only just complicit with 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:32.959 structural racism and white supremacy in this country, but active 0:22:32.960 --> 0:22:36.840 perpetrators of And I also thought it was important to 0:22:36.880 --> 0:22:39.880 sort of take this out of the context of we're 0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:43.639 just having a conversation about those conservative white women and 0:22:43.840 --> 0:22:47.120 actually look at how this is a story about all 0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:50.919 of us, about all of the ways that you know, 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:54.800 white womanhood is structured in such a way that allows us, 0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:57.760 even those of us who may identify as progressive, to 0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:02.479 sort of selectively engage on issues of race, and you know, 0:23:02.520 --> 0:23:05.879 the issue of kind of who has the privilege of 0:23:05.960 --> 0:23:09.000 being awakened because we did see the twenty sixteen election 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:11.560 as kind of this galvanizing moment right with the Women's 0:23:11.600 --> 0:23:15.080 March and all of these kind of previously a political 0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:20.080 or not terribly politically active white women suddenly got very 0:23:20.119 --> 0:23:22.240 engaged and said, oh my gosh, this is a crisis. 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:25.400 I need to fight for my country. But why were 0:23:25.440 --> 0:23:29.240 you asleep? Why were we asleep? Why have we not 0:23:29.440 --> 0:23:33.119 been awakened at every point in our history? And what 0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:36.240 is it going to take to continue that engagement and 0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:40.800 to really build what the writer Heather McGee talks about 0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:42.639 in her brilliant book to some of us as the 0:23:42.720 --> 0:23:45.159 solidarity dividend, Like, what is it going to take in 0:23:45.160 --> 0:23:49.080 this country for us to all be invested in the 0:23:49.119 --> 0:23:52.880 idea that if we work across racial lines to build something, 0:23:52.960 --> 0:23:56.560 to build a public good, that we will all do better. 0:23:57.359 --> 0:24:00.000 And So that is what I really wanted to example 0:24:00.119 --> 0:24:04.119 and kind of the historical underpinions of the ways that 0:24:04.280 --> 0:24:07.080 even in progressive movements, so we take a critical look 0:24:07.080 --> 0:24:10.080 at suffrage and the second way of feminism and the 0:24:10.119 --> 0:24:15.560 way that our you know, white feminist ancestors often turned 0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:20.720 their back on our black feminist sisters once they secured 0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:24.119 critical rights for themselves, And what is it really going 0:24:24.200 --> 0:24:30.960 to take to build a different, intersectional, sustainable, progressive feminist 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:35.000 movement that can really deliver both racial and gender justice 0:24:35.040 --> 0:24:39.679 in this country. Julie, why do you think that, like what? 0:24:41.440 --> 0:24:46.520 Why do you think that white women prefer to stay 0:24:46.560 --> 0:24:51.840 in slumber? What is it? And is it just the 0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:55.480 if I don't pay attention, if I don't tap in, 0:24:56.320 --> 0:25:01.520 then my rights, as you said, we'll continue to be secured. 0:25:01.880 --> 0:25:05.720 If I make too much noise, right, if I put 0:25:05.760 --> 0:25:09.960 too much skin in the game, then I'm risking my 0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:12.680 own liberty and how and I don't want to risk 0:25:12.720 --> 0:25:18.120 my own liberty in order to secure someone over there? Yeah? 0:25:18.200 --> 0:25:22.639 What is it? Well? I think on one level, we 0:25:22.760 --> 0:25:26.720 have been thoroughly indoctrinated in this country with the myth 0:25:26.760 --> 0:25:29.760 of the zero sum game that I can only have 0:25:29.960 --> 0:25:32.320 what's mine if it comes at the expense of someone 0:25:32.359 --> 0:25:36.600 else and someone else gaining some degree of you know, 0:25:36.680 --> 0:25:41.840 whatever it is, wealth, comforts, security, dignity will come at 0:25:41.880 --> 0:25:45.240 my expense. And so I think we really need to 0:25:45.280 --> 0:25:48.199 be pushing back against that. And I think what is 0:25:48.240 --> 0:25:52.240 one of the really difficult things about trying to create 0:25:52.359 --> 0:25:56.719 this investment in the solidarity dividend at large is that 0:25:56.760 --> 0:25:59.760 we are trying to create a society that we have 0:26:00.000 --> 0:26:03.920 ever had. So we have you know, we have never 0:26:04.040 --> 0:26:07.080 seen what it would look like. On the other side, 0:26:07.560 --> 0:26:12.320 what an anti racist society, the benefits it would deliver 0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:14.960 for all, and so it really sort of takes this 0:26:15.119 --> 0:26:18.800 leap of faith, right that I have to believe that 0:26:18.880 --> 0:26:23.480 it will be beneficial to me, my children, my family, 0:26:23.600 --> 0:26:28.160 my community, even though I don't I haven't experienced it. 0:26:28.560 --> 0:26:32.280