1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:05,680 Speaker 1: On January twenty fifth, nineteen eighty six, in south central 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Los Angeles, Herman Atkins, a disciplined student athlete who enjoyed 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:12,560 Speaker 1: refurbishing low rider chevies, was paying a local mechanic for 4 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: an engine rebuild when a robber snatched the money and 5 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: took off on foot. Herman grabbed the mechanic's gun and 6 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: chased the robber, firing warning shots into the air. The 7 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:25,080 Speaker 1: robber turned a corner and Hermann heard more gun shots. 8 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 1: When he reached the corner, he happened upon another crime scene. 9 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: There were cop cars and people wounded, and Hermann, frightened, 10 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: ditched the gun and retreated. After blanketing the area and 11 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,400 Speaker 1: questioning the mechanic, police wanted Atkins in connection with the 12 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 1: shooting and wounding of three people, including two police officers, 13 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:47,320 Speaker 1: something Herman would be totally unaware of until authorities caught 14 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 1: up with him while he was visiting family in Phoenix 15 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: in November of that year. Fingerprints on the gun found 16 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: that the crime scene did not match Herman, But with 17 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,800 Speaker 1: two newborn sons and prosecutors promising a guilty verdict that 18 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:03,360 Speaker 1: a terribly long sentence if he went to trial, Herman 19 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: pled no contest to the charges in exchange for a 20 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: lighter sentence. But this was just the beginning. On April eighth, 21 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,000 Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six, while Herman Akins's picture was being circulated 22 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,240 Speaker 1: by police in connection with the January twenty fifth incident, 23 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: an armed man forced a twenty three year old store 24 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,000 Speaker 1: clerk into the back room of her shop to perform 25 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,639 Speaker 1: oral sex on him in Lake Elsinore, California, a city 26 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: Hermann had never visited. During the rape, the assailant ejaculated 27 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: and wiped his seamen on her sweater, evidence that would 28 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 1: later clear Herman's name. The armbrobber and rapist fled with 29 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty dollars in cash and the victim's jewelry. 30 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: The victim and two other store clerks in the strip 31 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: mall identified Herman as the assailant from his circulating wanted poster. 32 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 1: With the prosecution relying on this ultimately mistaken eyewitness identification, 33 00:01:56,280 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: an incentivized jailhouse snitch, and misleading sorology fire, Herman was 34 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: sentenced to forty seven years plus eight months for a 35 00:02:04,680 --> 00:02:09,960 Speaker 1: crime he did not commit. This is raeful conviction with 36 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: Jason Flamm Welcome back to Wrongful Conviction. Everyone, Today you're 37 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,320 Speaker 1: going to hear a story that has so many layers, 38 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 1: so many twists and turns. It's a story that includes 39 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: mistaken eye witness identification, bad forensics, police misconduct, and in 40 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,119 Speaker 1: the end of the day, what it's got is redemption 41 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: and forgiveness of a type that we have never covered 42 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: and I've never heard of before. So I hope you're 43 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:50,360 Speaker 1: settled in because this is going to be an amazing ride, 44 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: and with me is the star of our show, Herman Atkins. 45 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:55,760 Speaker 1: So Herman, welcome to Wrongful Conviction. 46 00:02:56,160 --> 00:02:57,120 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. 47 00:02:57,280 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: And like I always say, I'm sorry you're here, but 48 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:00,120 Speaker 1: I'm glad you're here. 49 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know. It's it's been an interesting journey down. 50 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: A long road. It certainly has. And it all started 51 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: on the morning of April eighth, nineteen eighty six, a 52 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: long time ago. Correct eighty six, that's the year the 53 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,080 Speaker 1: Mets won the World Series. That's how long ago that is. 54 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,000 Speaker 1: And I'll just set the stage right. So, sometime around 55 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 1: eleven thirty in the morning, a thin, young black man 56 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: wearing a dark jacket, rebox shoes, and a gold ring 57 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: went into a shoe store in Lake, Elson, Or California, 58 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: which coincidentally hapens to with a place you've never been to. 59 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 1: We'll get into that. And he pretended to be interested 60 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 1: in some merchandise and then he being the only customer story, 61 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: he pulled a handgum and forced the clerk to perform 62 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: moral sex on him, threaten to kill it a horrible crime, 63 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: horrible crime. During the rape, the assailant ejaculated and he 64 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,200 Speaker 1: left his seamen on her sweater, so there was plenty 65 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: of evidence to go on. And he took one hundred 66 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: and thirty dollars, making it the robbery and a rape. 67 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 1: But he also took her engagement ring in another ring, 68 00:04:00,160 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: so her sweater was preserved as evidence. And that's when 69 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:07,840 Speaker 1: things get really crazy, right, because you would seem like 70 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: a very unlikely guy to be a suspect in this 71 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: crime or any crime. Yes, and that's because your stepfather. 72 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 3: He was a highway patrol officer, California Highway Patrol officer 73 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 3: out of the Torrents Division. 74 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 2: He raised me. He raised me in such a way. 75 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,360 Speaker 3: I grew up in a regiment type upbringing, where there 76 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 3: was rules, there were structures, there was high expectations, and 77 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:32,160 Speaker 3: there was a lot of pride from him as well 78 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 3: as my mother. We lived at the time in south 79 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 3: central LA, which would be considered middle class at the time. 80 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 1: And you were the third of six kids. Yes, yes, 81 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,640 Speaker 1: and you had ideas of becoming a patrolman yourself. 82 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,039 Speaker 3: Yes, I wanted to follow my father's footsteps. My father 83 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 3: went to the military. You come from Jackson, Mississippi, and 84 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 3: you know it is horror stories after horror stories, racism, 85 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 3: the whole shebange when he grew up. So he was 86 00:04:57,040 --> 00:04:59,799 Speaker 3: one of the first out of eleven kids, nine boys 87 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:04,480 Speaker 3: of girls, to leave Jackson, Mississippi. And so given the 88 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 3: stories that he told us, I wanted to follow in 89 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 3: his footsteps. He left Jackson, Mississippi, went into the military, 90 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 3: and then come from the military into law enforcement. So 91 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 3: my path was already cut from me. I distinctly remember 92 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 3: when the man went through the police academy and how 93 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 3: I had to shine shoes and belt buckles and anything 94 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 3: that had brass or chrome or silver to it. 95 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 1: And you were a star athlete as well. Oh yeah, 96 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 1: that comes back in the story later in a very 97 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:35,280 Speaker 1: unexpected way. Ah. 98 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, my whole life long, I had spent time 99 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:39,200 Speaker 2: in sports. 100 00:05:39,279 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 3: He kept me and my brothers well into the community 101 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 3: and social activities. He felt that that was contribute to 102 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 3: a strong foundation and give us the opportunity of learning 103 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,679 Speaker 3: what it means to work as a team, to follow 104 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,120 Speaker 3: leadership and eventually become leaders. And so I took the 105 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 3: sports and excelled at it, from Pop Warner all the 106 00:05:57,960 --> 00:05:59,600 Speaker 3: way on up to high. 107 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:02,440 Speaker 1: School football, baseball, the hoostion bang Yes. 108 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 2: Yes. 109 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:06,040 Speaker 1: And then this story, like I said, has a really 110 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: crazy twist right at the beginning of it. Actually, because, 111 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,560 Speaker 1: as I said, you would seem to be an extremely 112 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: unlikely guy to be a suspect in any crime. Yes, 113 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: you were going to church, graduated high school, doing your thing, 114 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 1: never been in trouble. 115 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 2: Yes. 116 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: And then one day, January twenty fifth, nineteen eighty six, 117 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:26,479 Speaker 1: a crazy thing happened. 118 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 3: I was having an engine rebuilt for a nineteen seventy 119 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 3: four K five Blazer, which was the end cars for 120 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 3: teenagers at that time. I just turned eighteen, and the 121 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 3: guy wanted three hundred dollars to rebuild the engine. 122 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 2: I had given him one. 123 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 3: Hundred and fifty already when I took the engine to him, 124 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 3: and he calls me up a week later and says, hey, 125 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 3: the engine is complete, come when you can't. I couldn't 126 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 3: come into at night. And when I went to go 127 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 3: paying the money, unbeknown to us, there was an individual 128 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 3: watching us from across the street and he approached the 129 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 3: both of us, me and the auto mechanic, and the 130 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 3: guy pulls out a gun and tells us we know 131 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 3: what time it is and took the money that I 132 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 3: was given to the auto mechanic. He then took off 133 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 3: headed it to the corner where two shots was fired 134 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 3: and the police were everywhere because they were up on 135 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 3: the corner investigating a car accident. So everybody in the 136 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 3: area fled so that I period shortly after that. I 137 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:25,600 Speaker 3: didn't think none of it. It's pure chaos and this 138 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:26,800 Speaker 3: is a movie. 139 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 2: See yes. At the time, I didn't think nothing of it. 140 00:07:29,840 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 3: Went home, and at that particular time, I was expected 141 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 3: to have my first child being born. I had impregnated 142 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 3: a young lady who came for the summer and she 143 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 3: lived in Texas. So when she announced that the baby 144 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 3: was about to be born, I went to Texas and 145 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:50,160 Speaker 3: I was there for three months, and. 146 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:52,440 Speaker 2: While there, my first song was born. 147 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 3: And so while I was in Texas, this rate that 148 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 3: happened in April transpired, so I wasn't even in the 149 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 3: state of California when it had happened. Then I came back, 150 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 3: and then I went to Arizona visit family members there. 151 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 3: While I was there, they have a project system, and 152 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 3: so some guys inside the projects had caused harm to 153 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 3: somebody else. Police were called and everybody who was in 154 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 3: the area was lined up as usual and names were taken. 155 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:27,200 Speaker 2: When I gave him my name, they just ran the 156 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 2: name and then came back. 157 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 3: And said, well, you're wanted in the city of Los 158 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 3: Angeles and you're wanted in Lake Elsinore for two council 159 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 3: of rate, two counds of oil copulation, one kind of robbery, 160 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 3: and one kind of kidnap. And I'm like, wait a minute, 161 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 3: I got the wrong guy, stop it, you know. And 162 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 3: so they was like, no, we're going to extradite you back, 163 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:50,800 Speaker 3: no problem. They extradited me within days. When I got 164 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 3: back to California, I was able to address the robbery 165 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:57,120 Speaker 3: incident and what have you. And the mistake I made 166 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:00,880 Speaker 3: at that particular time, I didn't tell them who was 167 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 3: the perpetrator in the matter, because I actually knew the guy, 168 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 3: and it was going to be one of those street 169 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 3: justice things. I'll catch up, which you're gonna give me 170 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 3: my money back because you're gonna get beat up, you know. 171 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:12,840 Speaker 2: And so that was what my thought process was. 172 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 3: So I wound up having to plead no low contendrate 173 00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:19,199 Speaker 3: to that whole situation, meaning you can hold me responsible, 174 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 3: but I'm not admitting to what you claim I had done. 175 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:22,600 Speaker 2: What have you. 176 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 3: I was the victim in the matter, and so the 177 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 3: mere fact that it was a two year of fence 178 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 3: clearly tell you the weakness. 179 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:29,320 Speaker 2: Of the matter. 180 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 3: So while we were addressing that, they then shipped me 181 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 3: off to Riverside, California, where I learned about these charges. 182 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 3: And so in April of nineteen eighty six, a woman 183 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 3: called out of Lake Elsinore, California and said that she 184 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:48,200 Speaker 3: had just been raped and robbed. There was a police 185 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,439 Speaker 3: car in the vicinity, and she gave it quick description 186 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 3: of the perpetrator. Young, thin build, black male, young, about 187 00:09:57,240 --> 00:09:59,959 Speaker 3: sixteen years of age. He said his teeth were small. 188 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 3: I got big t She said that he didn't have 189 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 3: no scars on his hands. I've had that scar on 190 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:08,960 Speaker 3: my hand since you see that scar right there. I 191 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 3: used to box, you know, prize fight when I was young. 192 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 3: I was an athlete, and so I had that scar 193 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 3: there that ended the career. And she said that he 194 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 3: had a ring on this exact finger, but she didn't 195 00:10:21,280 --> 00:10:24,200 Speaker 3: describe the scar. She said that the perpetrator at the 196 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 3: shoes he had on was actually a pair of rebots 197 00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 3: because it had a flag on it. And so she 198 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,719 Speaker 3: was able to identify this person to the nine to 199 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 3: one one operator who gave that information to the police 200 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 3: officer who was raised there on the scene. He was 201 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:42,720 Speaker 3: like in the neighborhood. Two minutes he arrived at the 202 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 3: scene of the crime. He said that they had combed 203 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 3: the neighborhood looking for a mail of this description. And 204 00:10:48,480 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 3: here's the problem, and that area it's all white, predominant white. 205 00:10:53,440 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: An African American man would have stuck out like a soord. 206 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 3: Yes, at eleven thirty in the morning and an out 207 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 3: a strip mall. This is a busy place. They couldn't 208 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:07,440 Speaker 3: find an individual. A detective was then called out. The 209 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 3: detective took the young lady to the hospital where DNA 210 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 3: rape kit was formed. They gathered all of the evidence 211 00:11:13,600 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 3: and then they took her to the police station for 212 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:22,319 Speaker 3: further investigation. When they got up there, coincidentally, the wanted 213 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:27,320 Speaker 3: poster in the LA situation, the robbery incident where I 214 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 3: was robbed was laying on the table and she looked 215 00:11:31,000 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 3: at it and said, this is the guy that raped 216 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 3: me right here. And they was like, are you sure? 217 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 3: She said, yes, I'm real sure. And so when they 218 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 3: were able to get me into the courtroom where I 219 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 3: had an arrayment in Lake Elsa, North California, a place 220 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 3: I had never been in, never knew anything about. I 221 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 3: was born and raised in south central Los Angeles, and 222 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,439 Speaker 3: to this very day I knew nothing about this city. 223 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:00,680 Speaker 3: And having me to come there for arraiment, I am 224 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 3: brought out into the courtroom with nothing but white guys. 225 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 2: I'm the only black guy on his chain of white guys. 226 00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,080 Speaker 3: But the part that got me, he is, is we're 227 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 3: in a jury box right and the DA's desk is 228 00:12:13,600 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 3: about maybe three feet away from me. I mean, I 229 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 3: can hear conversations being held with the DA and his 230 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:25,160 Speaker 3: party's assistant, and they called my name up and an 231 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 3: arrangement had taken place. Plead not guilty and what have you? 232 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 3: He said, Well, mister Atkins' attorney is not here yet, 233 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 3: and so we'll put him on the back end and 234 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 3: we'll proceed further. And so once the judge decided to 235 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 3: do that, he then got up, went right into the audience. 236 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 3: I'm looking at him, sits next to a woman and says, 237 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 3: do you see the man that raped you? 238 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 2: She looked right over and said, yeah, that's him right there. 239 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:50,679 Speaker 2: I'm the only black guy. 240 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 3: Now, you got the bailiff in back of me, and 241 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 3: the bayliff tell me to look forward or when he 242 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 3: gets me back in the back, he's going to take 243 00:12:56,559 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 3: his billy cub and bust my head if I didn't 244 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 3: continue to look forward. And all the while I'm looking 245 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:03,760 Speaker 3: at this and I'm like, yeah, okay, So I can't 246 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 3: wait for my attorney to get in so I can 247 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 3: tell her about this in court identification. And so when 248 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 3: she did come in, by then the bill had already 249 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 3: been rung. 250 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 2: You can't unwring it, right. 251 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: And this is I want to really dwell on this. U. Yes, right, 252 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:23,439 Speaker 1: because you're the only guy a sea of white guys. Yes, 253 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: I mean you're you're you're fucked. 254 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, And we went on with the arraiement and 255 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 3: the date was set for preliminary hearing, at which time 256 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:36,960 Speaker 3: I then learned all the ins and out about the 257 00:13:36,960 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 3: case and what have you. 258 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,040 Speaker 2: Now. Once the preliminary hearing came about, they. 259 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:47,720 Speaker 3: Had stated that they had three witnesses that could put 260 00:13:47,760 --> 00:13:48,960 Speaker 3: me at the scene of the crime. 261 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 2: They had a informant who allegedly. 262 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 3: Stopped the detective as he was leaving the county jail 263 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 3: and said, hey, I heard your addressing a rape case 264 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:02,320 Speaker 3: and in Lake Elsinor. I know something about it. I 265 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 3: can help you with it. So the detector pulls this 266 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 3: guy out and lo and behold. This informant was supposed 267 00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 3: to tell him he knew me that I had relatives 268 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,160 Speaker 3: in Lake Elsinor, and I was in Lake Elsinor around 269 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 3: about the time that this rape had taken place. 270 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 2: Then this is what the informant had told him, told 271 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:20,200 Speaker 2: him what kind. 272 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 3: Of car I drove, told him where I actually came from, 273 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 3: which was in the city of Los Angeles, and that 274 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 3: he had relatives in Los Angeles, and that's how he 275 00:14:29,480 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 3: was able to know. 276 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 2: Me as well. 277 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,200 Speaker 3: Then, when the detectives had came to La County to 278 00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 3: see me for the first time, they had taking items 279 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 3: that was in my property. At the time, I was 280 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 3: off into hip hop, you know, rapping and things of 281 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 3: that nature, and so quite naturally I fit the bill 282 00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 3: of New York will call a bee boy or what 283 00:14:49,080 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 3: have you, with the big gold chain, the rebock tennis shoes. 284 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 3: I had a nugget ring. And so they took all 285 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 3: of this and took it to the victim and showed 286 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 3: it to the The victim told. 287 00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,200 Speaker 2: Him none of that. He didn't have none of that. 288 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 3: But what they did was is they put it all 289 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 3: in the bag, and when we went to trial, they 290 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 3: used it just saying we took this from mister Atkins, 291 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 3: this is what he had, this is what the victim 292 00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 3: originally said that the perpetrator had, and it's here in 293 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:17,880 Speaker 3: the bag, and so it was used as evidence. 294 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: So they mixed your clothes with the clothes that might 295 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: look like what she would have remembered. 296 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:27,640 Speaker 3: Yes, wow, yes, yes, that's the police misconduct part of it. 297 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 3: Then there was the prosecutorial misconduct of it, where Prosecutor 298 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 3: Richard Bentley lines up with a roologist and manipulated numbers 299 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 3: to tell the jurys that I couldn't have been excluded 300 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,280 Speaker 3: from the crime when in actuality I could have. They 301 00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 3: said that I had a rare blood type, and this 302 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,880 Speaker 3: blood type only five percent of the nation had this 303 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 3: blood type, and because I fit into that five percent 304 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,560 Speaker 3: of the nation of blood I couldn't have been excluded, 305 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 3: when in actuality it was the other way around. I 306 00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:08,840 Speaker 3: was in the ninety five percent that could have excluded 307 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 3: me right there from the spot. And that's all that 308 00:16:11,040 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 3: Richard Bentley had to do was to be truthful with 309 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 3: the matter instead of manipulating the matter. Because what the 310 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 3: sorologists had done, it was proven in a civil trial 311 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,640 Speaker 3: that he had in fact conspired with Richard Bentley to 312 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 3: misquote these numbers. In the civil trial, which I love, 313 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 3: that came, you know, almost two decades later and found 314 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,600 Speaker 3: that Danny Miller, the lead detective, was liable for his 315 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:40,640 Speaker 3: role that he played in my being wrongfully convicted. Richard 316 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:44,080 Speaker 3: Bentley got to hide behind the badge of immunity where 317 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:47,240 Speaker 3: he couldn't be held responsible for what role he played 318 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 3: in it. And James Hall, who was the sorologist, he 319 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 3: was able to escape because of an issue that the 320 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 3: Ninth Circuit Quarter of Appeals. 321 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 2: Released him on. 322 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:58,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's crazy. 323 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 3: I was shocked to see how the pieces to the 324 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 3: puzzle came about as a result that led to my 325 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,200 Speaker 3: being wrongfully convicted. I realized that there was, in fact 326 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:14,000 Speaker 3: a conspiracy. I realized that there was prosecutorial misconduct, there 327 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:20,080 Speaker 3: was police misconduct, there was misidentification, there was junk science involved. 328 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 2: That all led to my being wrongly convicted. 329 00:17:23,280 --> 00:17:25,679 Speaker 1: First of all, before we even get to the jury 330 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: and the verdict, there's an important thing which hurts me 331 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: to even talk about it. I can't imagine how it 332 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 1: feels for you. But your father during this time, who 333 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: you obviously looked up to tremendously. You wanted to follow 334 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: his footsteps, yes, and he taught you so much, But 335 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 1: he didn't stand by you. No, he took the side 336 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:45,440 Speaker 1: of the police over his own son. 337 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,679 Speaker 3: In his exact words, quote unquote, I went with the 338 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 3: evidence instead of the love of the child. 339 00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:57,960 Speaker 1: And on top of everything else that you were going through, 340 00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: I can't imagine how a young person like yourself at 341 00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: this time, barely out of your teenage years can process 342 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:08,240 Speaker 1: that abandonment. 343 00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 2: It was an act of treason too, a father son relationship. 344 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,639 Speaker 1: The jury goes out, did you have any hope that 345 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: you would be found innocent after you had watched this 346 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:30,879 Speaker 1: whole thing take place in front of your eyes. You 347 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: were living in it. Right. Did you think they were 348 00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: gonna come back and find you guilty? No? I thought 349 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: that the truth would when. 350 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, the truth. 351 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:42,360 Speaker 3: See, my grandmother had a saying, she said, a lie 352 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 3: or die, the truth always live on, And so I 353 00:18:45,160 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 3: applied that to that situation. Unfortunately it didn't happen. Then 354 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 3: it happened later on. But everything my father had ever 355 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:57,440 Speaker 3: taught me about the justice system that went out the window. Hermann, 356 00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,679 Speaker 3: America got the best justice system. 357 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: It's not the worst in the world, but it needs 358 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 1: a lot of improvement. 359 00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:07,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, And as I have grown and have matured and 360 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,119 Speaker 3: have walked through this journey, I realized what the justice is. 361 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,679 Speaker 3: Nothing wrong with the Americans justice system. It's the people 362 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:17,719 Speaker 3: that work within the justice system that has given it 363 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 3: a bad name. 364 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 1: Right, Because in your case, if they would have followed 365 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,119 Speaker 1: the rules, you would have been exager It wouldn't have 366 00:19:22,160 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: even been brought to trial. Yes, nobody would have prosecuted 367 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,280 Speaker 1: this case. They would have kept looking. They come back 368 00:19:27,320 --> 00:19:31,560 Speaker 1: in and find you guilty on all counts. So that 369 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:33,880 Speaker 1: moment must have been the worst moment of your life. 370 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, can you imagine hearing a sentence we give 371 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 3: you forty seven years and eight months in prison. 372 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 2: I was devastated. 373 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 3: I mean, you have to understand half the time, although 374 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 3: I was aged twenty one, I was one of the 375 00:19:51,480 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 3: late bloomers. So I steal five eleven. I weighed maybe 376 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 3: one hundred and forty five pounds wet. And when I 377 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 3: went back to the sale while being housed at there 378 00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:02,399 Speaker 3: was a police officer. 379 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 2: He believed in me. 380 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,560 Speaker 3: And although I never talked to him about or anybody 381 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,520 Speaker 3: for that matter, about the case, he knew that I 382 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 3: didn't commit that crime because he had came on his 383 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 3: shift and he had found out what had happened. 384 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,160 Speaker 2: And he racked the door and. 385 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:17,840 Speaker 3: He said, I can, you know, step out, And he 386 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 3: took me out, and he put me in a padded 387 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:23,280 Speaker 3: cell and gave me a roll of toilet paper and 388 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 3: he said I'll be back to check on you. And 389 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 3: when he put me in that cell, I cried like 390 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 3: a baby. I that's when I realized you can lose 391 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 3: your you know, emotions, and just it just with three hours, 392 00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,840 Speaker 3: I just I just cried. I didn't have anybody to 393 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 3: console me. My father wasn't there to, you know, hey, 394 00:20:44,520 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 3: with that motivational speech. My mother wasn't there to, you know, 395 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:50,600 Speaker 3: with her solutions to every problem. 396 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 2: None of that. 397 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:54,480 Speaker 3: I was just you know, stripped down to nothing. That 398 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 3: was just me right there. And I knew that at 399 00:20:57,240 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 3: that moment I was about to go on the journey. 400 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 3: I was right, but I didn't know what to expect. 401 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 3: But it was just it just tore me apart and 402 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,359 Speaker 3: my father. When I was young, I was always willing 403 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 3: to help people and what have you. My father used 404 00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:13,239 Speaker 3: to always say, hermit, you'll have a soft heart, but 405 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:15,679 Speaker 3: that's all right, Life will harden it for you. And 406 00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,479 Speaker 3: what he said, he was right, because my heart became 407 00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:24,400 Speaker 3: instantly hard. I developed hatred, hatred in my heart. When 408 00:21:24,440 --> 00:21:29,040 Speaker 3: I got to prison, my attitude was, I'm in here 409 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,520 Speaker 3: for something I didn't do. I'm gonna give you a 410 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 3: reason to kill me because I don't see a way out. 411 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:38,439 Speaker 3: And so my attitude was, when it came from an 412 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 3: authoritative figure, you need to let fuck you Akins, you 413 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 3: need to fuck you Akins come in. I became what's 414 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 3: called a management problem. I can honestly say I kind 415 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 3: of checked out mentally and emotionally. 416 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:57,640 Speaker 1: And you had grown by now into a big, tough guy, right. 417 00:21:57,840 --> 00:22:00,320 Speaker 3: I grew over a period of time. But you know, 418 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 3: by the time I had did my seventh year and 419 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:09,239 Speaker 3: a shoe program later, by the end, I'm six' one 420 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 3: And i'm weighing every bit of two hundred. POUNDS i 421 00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:15,520 Speaker 3: did a sixteen month shoe. Program and by shoe you 422 00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:18,480 Speaker 3: mean secure, houses, yeah segregating housing unit and where you 423 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 3: stayed in the cell twenty three hours out of a, 424 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 3: day thirty minutes for shower and thirty minutes for. Yard 425 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 3: and seldom did you get both doing that right there 426 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,439 Speaker 3: and talking to a guy that was over in the 427 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,159 Speaker 3: cell who was doing an indetermined shoe. Program he had 428 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 3: been there eight years, already and he AND i used 429 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 3: to talk to event about that like that right, there 430 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,080 Speaker 3: except it was on the. Wall and he told me 431 00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:42,200 Speaker 3: something that was just registered to. Me he, said if 432 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 3: what you're telling me is, true then you need to 433 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 3: get back out on the main, line get into the 434 00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:48,280 Speaker 3: law books and figure out what happened to, you and 435 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 3: get up out of. 436 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:50,679 Speaker 2: Here made sense to. 437 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 3: ME i strayed, up did the shoe, program hit the main, 438 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 3: line and kind of stayed to myself other than working 439 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 3: and then. 440 00:22:56,600 --> 00:22:59,520 Speaker 1: Law library and from, THERE i, mean it took another 441 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: five years to get. Out what led you to The innis's? 442 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: Project how'd you get? Out? 443 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 3: Okay, well in nineteen ninety, four WHEN i got out 444 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 3: of the shoe, PROGRAM i went to the law. BOOKS 445 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:10,199 Speaker 3: i hit him. HARD i studied everything they had to 446 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 3: do about a rape. Case and there was a guy 447 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 3: who had came. In he was doing a. Violation he, 448 00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,960 Speaker 3: did like a nine month. Violation he had been watching 449 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,800 Speaker 3: me from a, distance you. Know he, said, look, man 450 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 3: you're kind of young to be in the law books 451 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 3: the way you, are you, Know and he, said what 452 00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:25,679 Speaker 3: are the issues that you're fighting or? Whatever BECAUSE i 453 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:27,919 Speaker 3: know a little bit of something about law and in, 454 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 3: prison you, know rapists and a child molest they treated 455 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 3: lord than the dirt they walk. On SO i never 456 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,440 Speaker 3: told nobody, about you, know WHAT i had been in. 457 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:39,239 Speaker 3: For but it was a calmness about this, guy AND 458 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:41,879 Speaker 3: i told. Him he, said, well what are the? Issues 459 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 3: AND i told him. That he, said, well it seems 460 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 3: as though that you have chopped down a tree and 461 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,520 Speaker 3: you're still dealing with the. Stump he, said there's an 462 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,160 Speaker 3: organization that could help you get out of. Here it's 463 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 3: called The Innocent, project And i'm more than sure if, 464 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 3: you you, know asked them to help, you they'll take your. 465 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,119 Speaker 3: Case you can be out of here in. MONTHS i 466 00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,520 Speaker 3: went in and wrote a thirteen page, letter And Barry 467 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 3: sheck And Peter neufeldt sent me a letter saying we 468 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 3: would be interested in your. Case can you send us 469 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:11,680 Speaker 3: your sentencing transcript The seralasis report in your trial, transcripts 470 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 3: and me and my family got together we sent these. 471 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:16,800 Speaker 3: Documents about two weeks after we had sent it, OFF 472 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,439 Speaker 3: i got a letter From Barry Sheck Peter newfelt again 473 00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:22,879 Speaker 3: telling me that they not only would they accept my, 474 00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 3: case they broke down how The Innocent project work and 475 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 3: the fact that a student would be assigned in my 476 00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 3: case and what the student job, was and if they 477 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:33,760 Speaker 3: were successful at finding the evidence FOR dna, testing then 478 00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 3: it would be turned over to an in house attorney 479 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:39,680 Speaker 3: and that person would go and represent. Me, now from 480 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,960 Speaker 3: the time they told me that in nineteen ninety, four 481 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,879 Speaker 3: the evidence was found in nineteen ninety, seven the problem 482 00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,720 Speaker 3: was is that The Innocent project was a fairly new 483 00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 3: organization and so they didn't have attorneys around the nation 484 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:55,119 Speaker 3: willing to do the work. 485 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 2: That they were, doing especially for a pro bono like 486 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:01,480 Speaker 2: they have. Now and so it took them another two, 487 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 2: years with the assistance of my family as, well to 488 00:25:04,119 --> 00:25:08,480 Speaker 2: find an, attorney and they found one guy Named Douglas. 489 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:13,480 Speaker 2: Myers he stepped. Up he argued successfully to have the evidence, 490 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 2: released and it was released In october of nineteen ninety, 491 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,240 Speaker 2: nine at which time it was tested and it proved 492 00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 2: THAT i was factually innocent of these. Crimes THE da 493 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 2: they just did not want to concede on the, matter 494 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,360 Speaker 2: so they wanted to be slick and Asked Barry shack 495 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:32,320 Speaker 2: in the courts to have a SECOND dna. Testing they 496 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 2: wanted to send everything To, Berkeley california for another testing 497 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,199 Speaker 2: and what have, you which would have caused me to 498 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 2: be there even. Longer But Barry shad got smart and 499 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 2: told them and, said let's get THE fbi, involved and 500 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 2: they sent it to THE. Fbi and While Barry shak 501 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,800 Speaker 2: And Peter, newfield they had wrote a book and they 502 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:50,159 Speaker 2: were on the book, tour THE fbi found out what 503 00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:52,719 Speaker 2: the results were and tried to make it seem like 504 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:55,560 Speaker 2: they discovered that an innocent man was in, prison and 505 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 2: they were the ones that pressed for my immediate. Release 506 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 2: so the minute order came Down february seventeenth of two, 507 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:08,119 Speaker 2: thousand demanding my immediate release BECAUSE i had been proven 508 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 2: by way of post CONVICTION dna testing THAT i was 509 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 2: factory innocent of the charges some twelve years. Later but 510 00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 2: it was a total of fourteen because the moment they 511 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 2: put handcuffs on, you that's when the clock. Starts, yes 512 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 2: so it's a total of fourteen. 513 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,360 Speaker 1: Years so fourteen. 514 00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 3: Years never received an apology From Richard, Bentley Nanny, Miller James, 515 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 3: howe norther victim for that. Matter but in coming, home 516 00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 3: you can actually see. Me go to YouTube type In 517 00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 3: Hermit AKIN'S dna testing and you're gonna see a video 518 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:43,120 Speaker 3: of my immediate. Release what was it like walking? Out 519 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 3: everything was new to. ME i had lost touch with. 520 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:48,920 Speaker 3: SOCIETY i had been gone over a. Decade but as 521 00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 3: far as coming, HOME i was excited about that BECAUSE 522 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 3: i did make plans WHILE i was in. 523 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 2: THERE i knew one day you're gonna have to let me, go. 524 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,920 Speaker 1: And they, did and they, Did and so you walked. 525 00:26:58,960 --> 00:26:59,960 Speaker 1: Out what's the first thing you did when you. 526 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 3: Well as far as eating, well the first THING i 527 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 3: did with my mother and my sister and her husband 528 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,600 Speaker 3: and an auntie and my one of my sons who 529 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 3: had been born BEFORE i went. In he was one 530 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,440 Speaker 3: years old WHEN i went to. Prison he was fourteen 531 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,400 Speaker 3: years old WHEN i got. Out and so we all 532 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 3: stopped AT I hop and one of the THINGS i 533 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,680 Speaker 3: noticed is IS i had eight prison food so LONG 534 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 3: i couldn't keep nothing on my. Stomach so we bypassed, 535 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 3: that AND i had to actually go to a dollar 536 00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:34,199 Speaker 3: store In california and buy stuff that they sold in the. 537 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 3: CANTEEN i had to make prison spreads in order to 538 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:37,840 Speaker 3: eat and survive out here. 539 00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,880 Speaker 2: For at least a. Month that's. 540 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 3: Crazy and then they took me to a hometown buffet 541 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 3: and something about they food set on my, stomach So 542 00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:48,919 Speaker 3: i'm maulled day. Food and we would drink coffee up 543 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 3: into like, fold just. COFFEE i went To starbucks and 544 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,280 Speaker 3: brought some coffee from. THERE i stayed up for three, 545 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,280 Speaker 3: days literally three. Days my sister and son, herr what's 546 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:58,040 Speaker 3: wrong with? You you? 547 00:27:58,040 --> 00:27:59,000 Speaker 2: Know are you all? Right you're? 548 00:27:59,040 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: Not WHAT i? 549 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,200 Speaker 3: Said, yeah starbug got some strong. COFFEE i don't mess 550 00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:03,399 Speaker 3: with starbug. Coffee to this very. 551 00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,160 Speaker 1: Day because the prison coffee was so. Weak i'm gonna. 552 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,320 Speaker 1: Die that's gonna stick with ME a long time story 553 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,159 Speaker 1: about you eating prison food after you got out for a. 554 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 1: Month that's. Crazy and then so you went to college. 555 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,679 Speaker 3: Out, yeah WHEN i came, home work was not an. 556 00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,320 Speaker 3: OPTION i needed to be. EDUCATED i already had a 557 00:28:19,359 --> 00:28:22,640 Speaker 3: high school. DIPLOMA i went enrolled in college and ONCE 558 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:24,919 Speaker 3: i got, THERE i went to the head coach and told, them, 559 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:25,639 Speaker 3: hey this is my. 560 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,720 Speaker 2: STORY i want to play. 561 00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 3: Football and so WHEN i came, HOME i still had 562 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:35,440 Speaker 3: that twenty one year old mentality AND i looked LIKE 563 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,840 Speaker 3: i was about twenty two twenty three at. Best and 564 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 3: so ALTHOUGH i was thirty four years of, age he, said, 565 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,560 Speaker 3: well if you can make the, team you. 566 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,280 Speaker 2: In so spring training came. 567 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,280 Speaker 3: Around it was a lot of, conditioning, running and we 568 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 3: had to do this final test and THEN i made the. 569 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 3: Team and when ONCE i made the, team they gave 570 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 3: us a, helmets shoulder, pads all of, that AND i 571 00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,160 Speaker 3: was able to show on WHAT i was made of. 572 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:02,480 Speaker 3: Physically at age thirty, FOUR i was out there rocking 573 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 3: these eighteen and nineteen year old kids who was coming 574 00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 3: out of high. School All american defensive, End All american, linebacker. 575 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:10,480 Speaker 2: You, know and what have. 576 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:12,760 Speaker 3: You And i'm, like, yeah, okay WHEN i was out 577 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 3: there tearing them, apart AND i had hit a guy 578 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 3: so hard one, TIME i knocked myself out and so 579 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,240 Speaker 3: the coach took my, helmet which was my prize. POSSESSION 580 00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 3: i had to sit out for a week for concussion 581 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,080 Speaker 3: purposes and what have. You but we got back at 582 00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 3: AND i played college football for two years at that 583 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 3: particular college. 584 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:35,320 Speaker 1: In your mid. Thirties and then, yeah and then one 585 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: of the more extraordinary things ABOUT i was going to 586 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: say about your, story but really about, you is the 587 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: aspect that deals with your father and how you dealt 588 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 1: with this, betrayal this treason after, Treason, yeah which is you, 589 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,960 Speaker 1: know as someone WHO i grew, up you, know my 590 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: father was my hero and you, know AND i can't 591 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 1: even imagine on any level how empty and horrible that 592 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: must have. Felt but you did something THAT i think is. 593 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,640 Speaker 1: Extraordinary and can you talk about. THAT i, mean what 594 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:14,239 Speaker 1: happened with you and your dad when you got. 595 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 3: Out, yes it's one of them situations where WHEN i 596 00:30:17,120 --> 00:30:21,160 Speaker 3: remember coming up and my father always demanded an explanation 597 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:24,959 Speaker 3: as to WHY i done. Something and so ALL i 598 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,600 Speaker 3: remember doing at time and coming home is that this 599 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 3: man never came to visit. Me he never wrote, me 600 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,239 Speaker 3: he never sent me money packages and none of. That 601 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 3: so he was like he turned his back on. Me 602 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,840 Speaker 3: but he did always tell, us you, KNOW i don't 603 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 3: go visit people in. JAIL i put people in. Jail i'm, like. 604 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 3: Okay so that was my thought, then and it wasn't 605 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 3: until we did the Documentary After innocence With Mark simon 606 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 3: And Jessica, sanders and they interviewed, him but they never 607 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 3: told me what he had told them until the documentary was, 608 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,080 Speaker 3: complete and it was now and on the big, screen 609 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,800 Speaker 3: And i'm sitting in this theater And i'm watching. Him 610 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,240 Speaker 3: and when they did his, interview out of his mouth 611 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,960 Speaker 3: came the explanation as to why he did what he. 612 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 3: Did he, SAID i went with the evidence instead of 613 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 3: the love of the. Child AND i immediately got up 614 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,120 Speaker 3: after that registered with. ME i got up while the 615 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,080 Speaker 3: documentary was still. GOING i went to the. HALLWAY i 616 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:25,600 Speaker 3: called my father AND i, said you, KNOW i always 617 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,320 Speaker 3: wondered why you did what you, did BUT i just 618 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 3: heard your. Explanation and it was at that, MOMENT i 619 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 3: forgave him BECAUSE i understood that once you become a police, 620 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 3: officer you are trained to think a certain, way and 621 00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 3: now That i'm going to law, School i'm being trained 622 00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:46,080 Speaker 3: to think a certain. Way he was trained to go 623 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 3: with the. Evidence i'm being trained to go with the 624 00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:51,640 Speaker 3: facts and make sure that the evidence lines. 625 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:51,800 Speaker 1: Up with the. 626 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 2: Facts SO i was able to forgive him right then and. 627 00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:00,320 Speaker 3: There and this happened in five WHEN i just really 628 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 3: got my explanation AND i went to my father AND 629 00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:04,680 Speaker 3: i told, HIM i forgive. 630 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 2: YOU i get, IT i. 631 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 3: Understand, however since the DAY i came, home my father 632 00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,720 Speaker 3: has been spending majority of our, time And i've been 633 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 3: homes in nineteen. Years he has been spending majority of 634 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:18,360 Speaker 3: that time trying. 635 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 2: To make it up to me for the decision that he. 636 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 3: Made And i've been spending my time showing HIM i forgive. 637 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 2: You you're my, FATHER i love. YOU i talk to him, 638 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:30,959 Speaker 2: REGULARLY i go. 639 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,120 Speaker 3: Visiting but NOW i have to do it more so 640 00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 3: now THAN i have done over the last few, years 641 00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:40,520 Speaker 3: because now he's dealing with alzheimer and it's creeping up 642 00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 3: on him. 643 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:41,840 Speaker 2: Fast and Then i'm. 644 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,840 Speaker 3: Forced to stay winning to the bitter, end because my 645 00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 3: greatest fear is now about to confront. Me one. Day 646 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 3: he's going to forget WHO i. Am he's going to 647 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,160 Speaker 3: forget that decision he. Made he's going to forget every 648 00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 3: life lesson that he's taught. Me he's going to forget. 649 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: Everything, yes now you have a bunch of. 650 00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 2: Grandchildren, YES i got seven of. 651 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: Them, yeah so that's. Great you'd be graduating law. School, yes. 652 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,320 Speaker 1: Awesome and Then california has never compensated, you and that 653 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:22,479 Speaker 1: is obviously completely. Unacceptable is ironic because you were one 654 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: of the people that was really responsible for changing those 655 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: compensations that you To. California it used to be believe 656 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: it or, not. Y'all let you tell, It. 657 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 2: Well it used to be ten thousand. 658 00:33:33,280 --> 00:33:35,040 Speaker 3: Dollars if you can prove that you were, wrong be, 659 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:39,640 Speaker 3: convicted you can get ten thousand. Dollars, well first of, 660 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:41,120 Speaker 3: all we didn't even know that law was on the. 661 00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,880 Speaker 3: Books somehow ANOTHER aclu found, it and a couple more 662 00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:50,040 Speaker 3: other sharp attorneys found, it and we went in address, 663 00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,760 Speaker 3: it meaning, me several of the Exoneries Natasha minska for THE. 664 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 2: Aclu we went before a. 665 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 3: Panel we were able to get that change from ten 666 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:01,280 Speaker 3: thousand total to one hundred dollars a. Day and WHEN 667 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:03,520 Speaker 3: i doubled back to apply for, it they told me 668 00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,800 Speaker 3: you get nothing because statute of limitations have ran out on. 669 00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 3: You i'm, like, huh, Really california owe me a half 670 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 3: a million. 671 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 1: Dollars, Yeah AND i think even, then one hundred dollars a, 672 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,839 Speaker 1: day that's thirty six five a, year AND i think 673 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:18,640 Speaker 1: you'd have a hard time going on in the streets 674 00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: and asking people if they want to go into the city. 675 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:22,239 Speaker 1: Fride you're on a maximum security prison one hundred dollars a, 676 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: day AND i could get a lot of takers for. 677 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 3: That they could give me it being the best interest 678 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,520 Speaker 3: to give me my money, now because ONCE i become an, 679 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 3: attorney Then i'm gonna come get it another way And 680 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,319 Speaker 3: i'm gonna keep getting it and getting in. It and 681 00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,480 Speaker 3: when they asked, me, well why are you these lawsuits and, 682 00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 3: this that and the, Other, well, hell you should have 683 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 3: gave me my. 684 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,600 Speaker 1: Money, right and now you're gonna get it on. Behind 685 00:34:38,719 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 1: i'm gonna get it. It, Yes, yeah it's. Ironic you're being 686 00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,360 Speaker 1: a football player and there they were moving the goalpost on, you, 687 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:47,880 Speaker 1: Right but that's the way it. Goes so everything about 688 00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 1: your story is. Extraordinary i'm really grateful that you shared 689 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:56,120 Speaker 1: your story with my audience and with me here on wrongful. 690 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,680 Speaker 1: Conviction and then now comes my favorite part of the. 691 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:02,560 Speaker 1: Show this is the part of the show WHERE i 692 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:05,879 Speaker 1: get to actually just thank you AS i just, did 693 00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 1: and then turn my microphone off and just, listen AND 694 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,040 Speaker 1: i leave it to you for the last few minutes 695 00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:16,600 Speaker 1: for closing thoughts of. Anything you want to talk about, 696 00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:18,839 Speaker 1: Anything it's all. You it's your. 697 00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 3: Stage, okay here's the. Thing one of THE i travel this, 698 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 3: NATION i speak on judicial. REFORM i work closely with 699 00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,520 Speaker 3: The Innocent. PROJECT i have dedicated my life to the 700 00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 3: work that they, do and there's some things THAT i 701 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:34,160 Speaker 3: found that contribute to our justice system being seriously. Flawed 702 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 3: BUT i first present this to anybody to hear my. 703 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,800 Speaker 3: STORY i, say each, one teach, one teach, one each, 704 00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:44,800 Speaker 3: one AND i present that challenge to the, person meaning 705 00:35:45,000 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 3: what you have heard here, today go out and educate 706 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:52,799 Speaker 3: the next. Person because awareness is very important to solving any, 707 00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 3: situation and in this, case people needs to be aware 708 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 3: of the fact that we have a seriously flawed justice. 709 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:04,879 Speaker 3: System it has accounted for individuals being wrongly. Convicted there's 710 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 3: a few individuals that has been killed in the justice 711 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,400 Speaker 3: system as a result of being wrongly convicted and. Executed 712 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 3: and these are the things that needs to stop. Now 713 00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:20,080 Speaker 3: the solution is is let's start at the base of the. Problem, 714 00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:23,360 Speaker 3: see it's not the justice. System i've come to realize 715 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:26,640 Speaker 3: the justice system will work perfectly if we get the 716 00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:31,160 Speaker 3: right people to operate within. It and the problem comes 717 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,560 Speaker 3: in to play ad is when you got corrupt prosecutors 718 00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:37,120 Speaker 3: who's getting wrong for, convictions are causing wrong for conviction 719 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,880 Speaker 3: because they want to be, politicians they want to be, 720 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,040 Speaker 3: judges they want to be counselmans and what have. You 721 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 3: and because of, that they're willing to do anything to 722 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,719 Speaker 3: get a. Conviction then you got these corrupt police. Officers 723 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,000 Speaker 3: lord not to mention how they just out of here 724 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 3: killing black males like it is the thing to, do 725 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,000 Speaker 3: like it's perfectly. Legal, okay we're dealing with a psychological 726 00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 3: problem from the police. 727 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 2: Department we need to do two. 728 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:07,359 Speaker 3: Things we need psychic evaluation on these police, officers get 729 00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 3: them out of the. Way and those that has caused, 730 00:37:10,239 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 3: problems we need to buy way of pictures. Motions we 731 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,960 Speaker 3: need to go into their, background figure out who they, 732 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,719 Speaker 3: are and start protesting to get them up out of. 733 00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 3: There and when you have A da that don't want 734 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:23,799 Speaker 3: to file a, case when they're clearly there has been 735 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,400 Speaker 3: a violation of the law on behalf of the, police 736 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:28,520 Speaker 3: they don't want to file the, case then we need 737 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:31,600 Speaker 3: to start looking at THAT da and shut that person, 738 00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,840 Speaker 3: down you, know when it comes down to elections and 739 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:35,880 Speaker 3: things of that. Nature and we got to always remember 740 00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 3: who these people are because what you feel to realize 741 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,760 Speaker 3: is the very people who was hollering back in the 742 00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,360 Speaker 3: eighties and the nineties tough on. Crime, yo these people 743 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:50,440 Speaker 3: has caused a serious problem To. Americans justice system is 744 00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:54,040 Speaker 3: busting at the. Scenes taxpayers is paying for. It and 745 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,520 Speaker 3: now the taxpayers is looking back on it and they, saying, 746 00:37:56,640 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 3: wow we can't afford to keep inmates and start letting them, 747 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,759 Speaker 3: out letting them want with non violent offenses, out, this 748 00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,040 Speaker 3: that and the other, wise so you can cut the. 749 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 3: Costs so you should have thought about that when these 750 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,359 Speaker 3: politicians was hollering tough on. Crime so in, fact let's 751 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,640 Speaker 3: weave them individuals out and get rid of, them get 752 00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:11,160 Speaker 3: them out. 753 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,000 Speaker 2: Of office as. Well we need to overhaul our. 754 00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 3: Justice system by removing the very individuals that are creating the. 755 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 3: PROBLEMS i would like to see laws. CHANGE i would 756 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 3: like to see when it comes down to, compensation that 757 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 3: every state In america follow. SUIT i like How texas 758 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,680 Speaker 3: has set their compensation package up and every state In 759 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,399 Speaker 3: america should follow. THAT i think that should be a 760 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:41,520 Speaker 3: federal law that all states has to do one thing 761 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 3: in all honor of. Compensation one of the things that 762 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,879 Speaker 3: people feel to realize is is that a person who 763 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 3: has actually committed a crime can get out in any 764 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 3: state and go to government funded organizations and receive all 765 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,479 Speaker 3: types of helps and resources to acclimate themselves back into. 766 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 3: SOCIETY a person who has been wrongly, convicted such as, 767 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,279 Speaker 3: myself is told to go back out in society and 768 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:09,600 Speaker 3: function the best way you. Can there is no compensation 769 00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:12,279 Speaker 3: package wherever a person has been improved and wrong for, 770 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:14,880 Speaker 3: convicted where he can go get an, education where he 771 00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 3: can go and get, housing where he can get, transportation 772 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,960 Speaker 3: where he can get psychological, help where he could turn 773 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 3: around and be a productive citizen in society with some 774 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 3: type of employment or what have. 775 00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,520 Speaker 2: You there's nothing. 776 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:31,440 Speaker 3: Set up for, that and So i'd like to see that. 777 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 3: CHANGE i like to see laws like that. Change but 778 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 3: the biggest THING i want to see, happen AND i 779 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:38,080 Speaker 3: pray To god THAT i live to see it, happen 780 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:40,960 Speaker 3: is have that badge of immunity if you moved from, them, 781 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:45,480 Speaker 3: prosecutors if you violate the very law that you swore 782 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:50,239 Speaker 3: to uphold and, protect then you should be prosecuted by. 783 00:39:50,239 --> 00:39:55,440 Speaker 3: It if you have indulged in the taking of a person's. 784 00:39:55,480 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 3: Life because when you put somebody in, prison be it 785 00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 3: for a, day be it for for a, month be 786 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:04,640 Speaker 3: it for a, year be it for a, decade you 787 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:08,799 Speaker 3: have killed that. Person you have killed that, person and 788 00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:10,960 Speaker 3: the person that did, it the people that's, involved be 789 00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,320 Speaker 3: it the, prosecutors be it the. Police they all need 790 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,359 Speaker 3: to be held accountable for their. Actions SO i want 791 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,480 Speaker 3: to see. ACCOUNTABILITY i want to see that badge of immunity, 792 00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 3: removed not in one, state in all, states in all, 793 00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:28,640 Speaker 3: states in all, cities regardless of how big or, small 794 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:30,960 Speaker 3: of what have. You AND i would like to see 795 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,600 Speaker 3: society as a whole start focusing on what's going on 796 00:40:35,160 --> 00:40:36,920 Speaker 3: over In kansas. 797 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 1: With this. 798 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 2: Bluski oh my, god that rate there is textbook. 799 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:46,279 Speaker 3: Corruption and if it went on, there it's just like 800 00:40:46,320 --> 00:40:48,480 Speaker 3: the same thing that went on In california with The 801 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:53,560 Speaker 3: Rampart division. Scandal this stuff right here is. Common the 802 00:40:53,600 --> 00:40:56,120 Speaker 3: only thing that's bringing it to light now is social. 803 00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 3: MEDIA i thank, god because the regular media it's not 804 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,279 Speaker 3: going to televise what a person holding a camera up 805 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:04,560 Speaker 3: to the. 806 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:07,759 Speaker 2: Situation with, televise that means it's up close in. 807 00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:11,200 Speaker 3: Person AND i thank god that you have those that 808 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:12,120 Speaker 3: hold your camera. 809 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:14,759 Speaker 2: UP i advise that you hold them up high. 810 00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 3: Because it is your, heart is your courage in the 811 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 3: face of these corrupt police officers that is bringing about 812 00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:22,160 Speaker 3: the truth in the. 813 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:27,480 Speaker 1: Matter thank you dropping a lot of, knowledge and if 814 00:41:27,520 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 1: you want to learn more About, glubski listen to The 815 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,320 Speaker 1: lama McIntyre episode Of Wrongful. Conviction you'll hear all about. 816 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:37,120 Speaker 1: It thank you again for being, Here Herman, atkins and 817 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,400 Speaker 1: thank you everyone for. Listening And i'll see you next 818 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:50,200 Speaker 1: week On Wrongful. Conviction don't forget to give us a 819 00:41:50,239 --> 00:41:53,800 Speaker 1: fantastic review wherever you get your, podcasts it really. Helps 820 00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,080 Speaker 1: And i'm a proud donor to The Innocence, project AND 821 00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:59,799 Speaker 1: i really hope you'll join me in supporting this very 822 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,840 Speaker 1: important cause and helping to prevent future wrongful. Convictions go 823 00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:07,200 Speaker 1: To innocentsproject dot org to learn how to donate and get. 824 00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,399 Speaker 1: Involved i'd like to thank our production, Team Connor hall 825 00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,080 Speaker 1: And Kevin. Wartis the music in the show is by 826 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 1: three TIME oscar nominated Composer Jay. Ralph be sure to 827 00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 1: follow us On instagram At Wrongful conviction and On facebook 828 00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:24,200 Speaker 1: At Wrongful Conviction. Podcast Wrongful conviction With Jason flamm is 829 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:27,719 Speaker 1: a production Of lava For Good podcasts in association With 830 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:31,840 Speaker 1: Signal Company number one