WEBVTT - #358 Wrongful Conviction: False Confessions - Dixmoor 5

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<v Speaker 1>Hey guys, it's Laura today. I have some pretty great

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<v Speaker 1>news to share with you. Back in season one of

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<v Speaker 1>False Confessions, Steve and I brought you the story of

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<v Speaker 1>the Dix Moore Five, a group of teenage boys who

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<v Speaker 1>were interrogated for hours without lawyers or parents present. One

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<v Speaker 1>by one, they were each implicated in the crime and

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<v Speaker 1>ended up spending about twenty years in prison. Their confessions

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<v Speaker 1>were in the Forum of Science Statements. There was no

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<v Speaker 1>recording of their interrogations, but one of the reasons they

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<v Speaker 1>confessed was because the police lied to them. This is

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<v Speaker 1>common in police interrogations and it's something we've seen over

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<v Speaker 1>and over on the show. Police will falsely promise leniency

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<v Speaker 1>in order to get a confession, or they'll lie that

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<v Speaker 1>they have evidence they don't really have. This is a

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<v Speaker 1>horrible practice and it's one that's clearly not working to

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<v Speaker 1>get real criminals off the streets. Using lies and deceptive

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<v Speaker 1>interrogation tactics is a huge risk factor for false confessions,

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<v Speaker 1>and as we know, false confessions are one of the

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<v Speaker 1>leading causes of wrongful convictions. They occur in about thirty

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<v Speaker 1>percent of cases that have been overturned by DNA evidence.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just plain wrong and it needs to end. But

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<v Speaker 1>here's the good news. In an incredible step towards justice,

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<v Speaker 1>Illinois became the first state in United States history to

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<v Speaker 1>adopt a law in twenty twenty one that bans police

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<v Speaker 1>from lying to children during interrogations. I cannot tell you

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<v Speaker 1>how huge this is. If this law had been in

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<v Speaker 1>place back in nineteen ninety one, the Dixmore five would

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<v Speaker 1>never have gone to prison and had twenty years of

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<v Speaker 1>their lives stolen a way. This is a reform that

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<v Speaker 1>was sorely needed, especially here in Illinois, the false confession

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<v Speaker 1>capital of the country. In our state alone, there have

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<v Speaker 1>been over one hundred wrongful convictions based on false confessions.

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<v Speaker 1>I am so proud to be part of this work

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<v Speaker 1>and that the cases I helped defend are themselves helping

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<v Speaker 1>to pass new laws, creating a few with fewer wrongful convictions.

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<v Speaker 1>But we can't stop here. This kind of law should

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<v Speaker 1>exist in every state, and it should apply to everyone,

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<v Speaker 1>not just kids. We now have the data and the

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<v Speaker 1>experience to know that when police lie to a suspect

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<v Speaker 1>during an investigation, that does more harm than good. There

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<v Speaker 1>are much better ways to solve crimes we need all

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<v Speaker 1>interrogations to be videotaped, and we need better protections for

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<v Speaker 1>everybody who winds up inside that room. It's only with

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<v Speaker 1>reforms like these that we can live up to one

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<v Speaker 1>of the founding principles of our justice system. Innocent until

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<v Speaker 1>proven guilty, Welcome to wrongful conviction, false confessions. I'm Laura

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<v Speaker 1>and I writer.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm Steve Drusen.

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<v Speaker 1>Today we're going to tell you about a case out

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<v Speaker 1>of Chicago, the story of a violent and tragic crime

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<v Speaker 1>that took the life of a young girl. But there's

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<v Speaker 1>a larger reason why we want to talk about this

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<v Speaker 1>case because of what it also took from not one,

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<v Speaker 1>but five innocent teenage boys and from their families and communities.

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<v Speaker 1>This case happened during what we now call the super

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<v Speaker 1>Predator era the nineteen eighties and nineteen nineties. The news

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<v Speaker 1>media was saturated with stories of urban crime, drugs and gangs,

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<v Speaker 1>and in particular, sensationalized stories about black and brown youth

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<v Speaker 1>committing violent crimes in groups. This narrative is often associated

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<v Speaker 1>with New York City. It drove the wrongful prosecution of

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<v Speaker 1>the so called Central Park five wolf Pack, but it

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<v Speaker 1>didn't stop there. Today, we're going to tell you about

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<v Speaker 1>a group of teenage boys whose false confessions transformed them

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<v Speaker 1>into Chicago's own wolf pack. They're known as the Dixmore Five.

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<v Speaker 2>Now Chicago may be called the second city comes to

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<v Speaker 2>false confessions. We don't take a back seat to anybody,

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<v Speaker 2>not New York or any other jurisdiction for that matter.

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<v Speaker 2>We're home to more false confessions than any other city

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<v Speaker 2>in the United States. We're home to more juvenile false confessions.

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<v Speaker 2>And we're also the home of more cases in which

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<v Speaker 2>there are multiple false confessions. And over the years, the

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<v Speaker 2>Center on Wrongful Convictions has obtained exonerations in many of

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<v Speaker 2>these cases, all of which were from African American teenagers

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<v Speaker 2>in the Chicago area.

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<v Speaker 1>Marquette Park four, Uptown seven, Englewood four, Dixmore five. These

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<v Speaker 1>numbers start to add up, and the thing is each

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<v Speaker 1>one of these cases involves innocent African American teenagers in

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<v Speaker 1>groups confessing to crimes they didn't commit.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, the most famous case like this was New

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<v Speaker 2>York's Central Park five case. In April of nineteen eighty nine,

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<v Speaker 2>five teenage boys were charged with the sexual assault and

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<v Speaker 2>the tempted murder of a female jogger in New York's

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<v Speaker 2>Central Park. The boys falsely confessed to beating this woman

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<v Speaker 2>within an inch of her life and leaving her in

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<v Speaker 2>the woods to die. The Central Park five confessions were

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<v Speaker 2>driven by race Wolfpax. Wilding was a whole new language

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<v Speaker 2>to describe groups of African American and Latino teenagers, and

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<v Speaker 2>it created a level of fear in New York City

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<v Speaker 2>and around the country that I had never seen before.

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<v Speaker 2>So when we began to look at the Dixmore case,

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<v Speaker 2>the case of the Central Park five was ringing in

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<v Speaker 2>my years.

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<v Speaker 1>It was November of nineteen ninety one and fourteen year

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<v Speaker 1>old Kateresa Matthews was in the eighth grade. She lived

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<v Speaker 1>with her mom and Dix Moore, a suburb on the

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<v Speaker 1>South side of Chicago, surrounded by a tight knit extended

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<v Speaker 1>family and community. Every day after school, Kateresa followed the

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<v Speaker 1>same routine. She'd walk to her great grandmother's house, where

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<v Speaker 1>she'd do her homework, tuck on the phone, and do

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<v Speaker 1>whatever fourteen year old girls do. After school, she was

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<v Speaker 1>waiting until her mom came home from work to go

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<v Speaker 1>back to her own house. Kateresa followed this routine religiously

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<v Speaker 1>until November nineteenth, nineteen ninety one, when she doesn't show

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<v Speaker 1>up at her great grandmother's house after school. Her family panics.

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<v Speaker 1>They call the police and a search begins, but for

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<v Speaker 1>three weeks there's no sign of Kateresa until December eighth,

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen ninety one. That's when Kateresa's body is found lying

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<v Speaker 1>in a wooded field next to the Interstate Highway that

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<v Speaker 1>runs through Dixmore. She's on her back, partially undressed, with

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<v Speaker 1>her pants draped across her lower body. On her chest

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<v Speaker 1>is a spent casing from a twenty five caliber bullet.

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<v Speaker 1>She's been shot once in the mouth. Even though Kateres

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<v Speaker 1>had been missing for three weeks, the medical examiner concludes

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<v Speaker 1>that she's been killed recently, right around the time her

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<v Speaker 1>body's found. There are several reasons for this. For one thing,

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<v Speaker 1>rigor mortis is present when she's found that usually disappears

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<v Speaker 1>about twenty four to forty eight hours after death. Her

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<v Speaker 1>body is also still bleeding when she's discovered, which you

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't expect if she'd been killed much earlier. And also

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<v Speaker 1>when a body's been lying outside for a long time,

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<v Speaker 1>there are usually signs like animal or insect bites. There's

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<v Speaker 1>nothing like that here. And the medical examiner finds something

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<v Speaker 1>else too, semen on Kateresa's body. She's been raped.

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<v Speaker 2>This was an awful crime.

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<v Speaker 1>It's the worst. I mean, it's every parent's nightmare to

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<v Speaker 1>have this happen to their child.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, when you think of a crime like this,

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<v Speaker 2>you don't think of it as something that teenagers would do. Typically,

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<v Speaker 2>teenage crimes are impulsive crimes. There's not a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>planning or premeditation. They happen in the spur of the moment.

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<v Speaker 2>But this crime clearly required some forethought.

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<v Speaker 1>For eleven long months, the investigation into Kateresa's death goes

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<v Speaker 1>nowhere until fall nineteen ninety two, when a teenage boy

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<v Speaker 1>tells police that he saw Kateresa getting into a car

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<v Speaker 1>with some friends around the time of her disappearance. Police

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<v Speaker 1>decided to question those friends, starting with Robert Vel on

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<v Speaker 1>October twenty ninth, nineteen ninety two. Now, Robert's fourteen years old,

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<v Speaker 1>but he has pretty severe intellectual limitations that make him

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<v Speaker 1>think more like a five year old. He's questioned for

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<v Speaker 1>hours without a parent or a lawyer present, off camera,

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<v Speaker 1>and in the end he signs a confession prepared by

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<v Speaker 1>his interrogator, and the story in this confession is brutal.

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<v Speaker 1>Robert says he and four other African American teenage boys

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<v Speaker 1>kidnapped a girl they knew from school. They gang raped

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<v Speaker 1>her as she pleaded with them to stop, and then

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<v Speaker 1>they shot her once in the mouth. It was a

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<v Speaker 1>story of an animalistic group of black teenagers attacking their

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<v Speaker 1>classmate for sport.

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<v Speaker 2>The level of depravity in this story was so out

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<v Speaker 2>of bounds that it made me question whether it was true,

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<v Speaker 2>But it also had an eerily familiar ring to it,

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<v Speaker 2>and for me, the significance was as I was seeing

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<v Speaker 2>the same explanations in different cases, which made me begin

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<v Speaker 2>to feel that like maybe there was a script that

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<v Speaker 2>was getting passed around among Chicago police officers.

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<v Speaker 1>Only hours after Robert Veil confesses, police bring in one

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<v Speaker 1>of his supposed co perpetrators, fifteen year old Robert Taylor.

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<v Speaker 1>He's a kid from a loving and protective family, but

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<v Speaker 1>his parents didn't know he was at the police station

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<v Speaker 1>being interrogated. Hours later, his signature appears on a confession too,

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<v Speaker 1>and that confession tells a similarly vicious story. The same

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<v Speaker 1>five African American teenagers lured Katresa into a car, then

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<v Speaker 1>raped her and shot her in a field.

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<v Speaker 3>The super Predator era was a period of of pronounced

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<v Speaker 3>moral panic in the United States that focused on young people, race,

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<v Speaker 3>and crime.

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<v Speaker 1>That's our colleague and friend, Perry Moriarty. She's a professor

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<v Speaker 1>of law at the University of Minnesota and an expert

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<v Speaker 1>on juvenile justice and the era of the super Predator.

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<v Speaker 3>The front end marker is more than likely the Central

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<v Speaker 3>Park five case that was April of nineteen eighty nine,

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<v Speaker 3>and that began an era when, in the name of

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<v Speaker 3>public safety, in the name of being tough on crime,

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<v Speaker 3>law enforcement authorities dropped any pretense of treating children as

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<v Speaker 3>children and prosecuted them as adults. If they were black

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<v Speaker 3>and brown children, they were adultified, either by law or

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<v Speaker 3>by connotation, and certainly by the media. A jogger murdered

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<v Speaker 3>in New York Central Park, a little girl gunned down

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<v Speaker 3>in her family's car.

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<v Speaker 2>And Los Angeles, a.

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<v Speaker 1>Judge has sentenced two boys for killing another child who

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<v Speaker 1>refused to steal candy for them. There's a tidal wave

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<v Speaker 1>of juvenile violent crime right over the horizon, and some

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<v Speaker 1>who study it say the worst is.

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<v Speaker 3>Yet to come, terms like wilding, beast chill, predatory. In

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<v Speaker 3>New York City newspapers alone, the term wilding appeared one

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<v Speaker 3>hundred and fifty six times in articles over the eight

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<v Speaker 3>years following the Central Park five arrests. To put it

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<v Speaker 3>in perspective, just a few months after the Central Park

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<v Speaker 3>five case, a large group of Italian and Irish predominantly

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<v Speaker 3>teenagers in benson Hurst, Brooklyn, chased down and killed a

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<v Speaker 3>young Black teenager named Yuseph Hawkins. And the headlines did

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<v Speaker 3>not say wilding. They did not say beasts chill, They

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<v Speaker 3>did not even say gang. They said a group of

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<v Speaker 3>white teenagers.

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<v Speaker 1>Now the police have two confessions that implicate the same

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<v Speaker 1>five teenagers, but they're not done yet. Next up is

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<v Speaker 1>Cheyenne Sharp, seventeen years old, the third supposed co perpetrator.

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<v Speaker 1>He's questioned for nearly twenty four hours before he also

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<v Speaker 1>confesses and implicates the other four. And it's the same

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<v Speaker 1>brutal story, a group of African American teenage boys terrorizing

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<v Speaker 1>their classmate for fun.

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<v Speaker 2>Now you have to understand how these confessions are taken.

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<v Speaker 2>These confessions are scripted, usually by a prosecutor from the

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<v Speaker 2>State attorney's office. Sometimes they're written by police officers, and

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<v Speaker 2>these scripts contain a narrative, including character development. Kids are

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<v Speaker 2>described as thugs. There's usually references to gang membership. Women

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<v Speaker 2>are called bitches and hoes. The scriptwriter in these cases

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<v Speaker 2>is doing two things. He's painting the suspect in a

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<v Speaker 2>way that nobody can ever think of them as teenagers.

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<v Speaker 2>And he's also painting them in a way that nobody

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<v Speaker 2>and that means nobody in the public and nobody on

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<v Speaker 2>the jury can have an ounce of sympathy for them.

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<v Speaker 2>And in doing so, he's making a script that is

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<v Speaker 2>about as rock solid as a route to conviction as

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<v Speaker 2>one can imagine.

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<v Speaker 1>So far, the police have confessions from three of the

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<v Speaker 1>Dixmore five, and within days they bring in the two

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<v Speaker 1>remaining teenagers for questioning two brothers, seventeen year old James

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<v Speaker 1>Harden and fifteen year old Jonathan Barr. The boys are

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<v Speaker 1>interrogated for hours, but their father had always told them

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<v Speaker 1>never sign anything prepared by the police. Somehow a miracle

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<v Speaker 1>they remember these words and they don't confess, but they're

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<v Speaker 1>still named in the other three teenagers' statements, so all

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<v Speaker 1>five are on the hook.

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<v Speaker 3>In part because because they were arresting and prosecuting kids

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<v Speaker 3>in mass in groups, law enforcement became very adept in

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<v Speaker 3>that period at pitting kids against each other during the

0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:16.120
<v Speaker 3>interrogation process and using kids against each other to extract

0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:17.520
<v Speaker 3>false confessions.

0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.920
<v Speaker 2>When you look at these cases of multiple false confessions,

0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.600
<v Speaker 2>you see a similar pattern. First of all, the police

0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:29.240
<v Speaker 2>usually start with the most vulnerable, most naive, most gullible

0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:32.400
<v Speaker 2>of the suspects, and they focused in this case on

0:14:32.560 --> 0:14:35.840
<v Speaker 2>Robert Field. He was the weak link. Then they get

0:14:35.840 --> 0:14:39.280
<v Speaker 2>a confession from Robert Veel, and what do they do

0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.840
<v Speaker 2>with that confession They use it as a battering ram

0:14:43.240 --> 0:14:47.000
<v Speaker 2>to plow over all of the other defendants. This is

0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:50.440
<v Speaker 2>how it works. The first suspect comes in and the

0:14:50.480 --> 0:14:53.360
<v Speaker 2>police officers tell them that they know that he was

0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.240
<v Speaker 2>involved in this crime and nothing that suspect can say

0:14:57.600 --> 0:15:00.520
<v Speaker 2>is going to change their mind. But they don't think

0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:04.480
<v Speaker 2>he was the one who actually raped anybody or killed anybody.

0:15:04.720 --> 0:15:08.400
<v Speaker 2>He was just a follower. The suspect is pressured into

0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:12.720
<v Speaker 2>adopting a story in which he is a passive participant

0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:17.200
<v Speaker 2>to the crime, and which he fingers his co defendants

0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:23.000
<v Speaker 2>as the more active participants. Then once that suspect confesses,

0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.320
<v Speaker 2>they bring that confession to the next in line and

0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:30.320
<v Speaker 2>they go over the same thing again. We don't think

0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:34.000
<v Speaker 2>you committed the crime. He's telling us that you committed

0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:37.080
<v Speaker 2>the crime. We know you were there, but maybe you

0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.560
<v Speaker 2>just held down her arm while they were raping and

0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:46.520
<v Speaker 2>killing her. Each suspect is vying for the least culpable role,

0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:48.720
<v Speaker 2>and at the end of the day, this is a

0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:53.520
<v Speaker 2>very effective way to get confessions from multiple suspects.

0:15:53.800 --> 0:15:56.680
<v Speaker 1>In this case, the dominoes are falling and each one

0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:59.600
<v Speaker 1>of them eventually agrees to a story in which James

0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:02.880
<v Speaker 1>Harden is the one who actually places the gun inside

0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:06.240
<v Speaker 1>Kateresa's mouth and pulls the trigger. It's no coincidence that

0:16:06.360 --> 0:16:08.680
<v Speaker 1>James is one of the last ones questioned here.

0:16:09.160 --> 0:16:11.320
<v Speaker 2>That's right. And at the end of the day, please

0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:15.520
<v Speaker 2>got confessions from Robert Field, Robert Taylor, and Cheyenne's Sharp,

0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:20.480
<v Speaker 2>but they couldn't get James Harden and Jonathan Barr to confess.

0:16:22.880 --> 0:16:26.520
<v Speaker 1>Based on the confessions, all five teenagers are charged with

0:16:26.600 --> 0:16:30.560
<v Speaker 1>the assault and murder of Kateresa Matthews, and the Dixmore

0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:37.960
<v Speaker 1>Five are transformed into Chicago's own wolf pack. Pretty soon, though,

0:16:38.000 --> 0:16:41.800
<v Speaker 1>it becomes apparent that this case has major problems for starters.

0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:46.200
<v Speaker 1>The teenager's versions of what happened are wildly inconsistent. They

0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.680
<v Speaker 1>can't agree on how they met up with Katsa, what

0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.240
<v Speaker 1>the group did before they ended up in that field

0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:54.840
<v Speaker 1>by the interstate, or who assaulted Kateresa, and in what order.

0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:57.720
<v Speaker 1>In fact, one of the only things they do agree

0:16:57.720 --> 0:16:59.840
<v Speaker 1>on was that Kateresa had been murdered the day she

0:16:59.880 --> 0:17:04.520
<v Speaker 1>did disappeared, November nineteenth. But remember this was contradicted by

0:17:04.520 --> 0:17:07.720
<v Speaker 1>the medical examiner, who determined that she'd been killed three

0:17:07.800 --> 0:17:11.399
<v Speaker 1>weeks later, around the time her body was found. And

0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:15.480
<v Speaker 1>then here comes the biggest problem. After all five teenagers

0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:19.600
<v Speaker 1>were charged but before trial, DNA testing from the seaman

0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:25.480
<v Speaker 1>left on Katrese's body excludes all five suspects. Instead, this

0:17:25.640 --> 0:17:28.400
<v Speaker 1>DNA belongs to a single unidentified male.

0:17:29.080 --> 0:17:32.080
<v Speaker 2>This is might drop evidence, the kind of evidence that

0:17:32.240 --> 0:17:36.680
<v Speaker 2>should have resulted in these cases being dismissed before.

0:17:36.440 --> 0:17:40.280
<v Speaker 1>Trial exactly these confessions had been proven false. But instead

0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.120
<v Speaker 1>of dropping its case, the state offers deals to two

0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:46.760
<v Speaker 1>members of the Dixmore Five, Cheyenne Sharp and Robert Veale.

0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:50.359
<v Speaker 1>If the boys agree to testify against their co defendants,

0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:54.639
<v Speaker 1>they'll receive much shorter sentences. Syenna and Robert decide to

0:17:54.640 --> 0:17:57.440
<v Speaker 1>take the deal, while the state moves forward with trials

0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:00.840
<v Speaker 1>for the other three, and those trials of are based

0:18:00.840 --> 0:18:04.240
<v Speaker 1>on the stories told in the confessions. Despite the DNA.

0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:07.720
<v Speaker 2>You talk here about tunnel vision. This is what happens.

0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:12.359
<v Speaker 2>The police officers lock into a story. They become invested

0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.399
<v Speaker 2>in this notion of a gang rape, and they can't

0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:17.000
<v Speaker 2>get out of.

0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:19.639
<v Speaker 1>That box exactly. And you see this when they have

0:18:19.680 --> 0:18:22.119
<v Speaker 1>to deal with the DNA and the prosecutor addresses it

0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:23.200
<v Speaker 1>during closing arguments.

0:18:23.240 --> 0:18:26.880
<v Speaker 2>And what does the prosecutor say? He explains the presence

0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:30.040
<v Speaker 2>of DNA as the work of a necrophiliac.

0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:32.440
<v Speaker 1>Now, Steve, if this isn't exactly a household term, what

0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:34.120
<v Speaker 1>is a necrophiliac?

0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:37.080
<v Speaker 2>It's someone who has sex with dead bodies.

0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:39.600
<v Speaker 1>I knew you know that. This is officially the most

0:18:39.600 --> 0:18:40.960
<v Speaker 1>batchitt theory I think I've ever.

0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:42.440
<v Speaker 2>Heard, By the way, I couldn't agree more.

0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:44.600
<v Speaker 1>So, let's get this straight. The theory here at the

0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:48.800
<v Speaker 1>Dixmore viv trial was that five teenage boys sexually assault

0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:51.680
<v Speaker 1>this victim. They don't leave a trace of themselves behind.

0:18:52.160 --> 0:18:56.439
<v Speaker 1>Then here comes this wandering necrophiliac who comes across the

0:18:56.480 --> 0:18:59.520
<v Speaker 1>body and decides to defile it. I mean, we've heard

0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:01.320
<v Speaker 1>a lot of excuse us for DNA in our time,

0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:03.120
<v Speaker 1>but this one may take the prize.

0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:07.800
<v Speaker 2>It's unbelievable that they would even present this to a jury.

0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:12.160
<v Speaker 2>It's that insane. But you have to understand in the

0:19:12.240 --> 0:19:19.240
<v Speaker 2>context of a climate of fear, the irrational becomes rational. Now,

0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:22.600
<v Speaker 2>in the opening statement in this case, the prosecutor said

0:19:22.640 --> 0:19:27.400
<v Speaker 2>that these men, pointing at the five teenagers, these men

0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:31.040
<v Speaker 2>came from a world where so called friends were turned

0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:34.760
<v Speaker 2>into a pack of jackals hunting down their prey, and

0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:38.360
<v Speaker 2>then they were done with it, killing it for sport jackals.

0:19:38.359 --> 0:19:41.120
<v Speaker 1>Can you believe that this really is Chicago's own wolf pack?

0:19:44.119 --> 0:19:49.840
<v Speaker 3>Again, it's a lot easier to fathom locking up a young, beastial,

0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:53.800
<v Speaker 3>feral thing than it is a child, which is in

0:19:53.800 --> 0:19:54.840
<v Speaker 3>fact what we were doing.

0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.720
<v Speaker 2>And when you talk about children as if they were animals,

0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:03.560
<v Speaker 2>it becomes so much easier to throw away their lives.

0:20:03.400 --> 0:20:05.679
<v Speaker 1>To just not worry about doing that last bit of

0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:08.520
<v Speaker 1>DNA testing, figure out whose DNA it was actually left on.

0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:09.800
<v Speaker 1>Katries and Matthew's body.

0:20:10.080 --> 0:20:12.840
<v Speaker 2>It becomes easier to try them as adults. It becomes

0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.480
<v Speaker 2>easier to sentence them to life sentences or even the

0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:21.800
<v Speaker 2>death penalty. It becomes easier to just lock them up

0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:35.000
<v Speaker 2>and throw away the key.

0:20:36.200 --> 0:20:40.520
<v Speaker 1>The dehumanizing story embedded in these boys confessions. While it works,

0:20:40.880 --> 0:20:44.080
<v Speaker 1>each of the Dixmore five is convicted, and the three

0:20:44.119 --> 0:20:47.240
<v Speaker 1>who don't cut deals, Robert Taylor, Jonathan Barr, and James

0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:51.080
<v Speaker 1>Harden are sentenced to life in prison. Cheyenne Sharp and

0:20:51.160 --> 0:20:54.199
<v Speaker 1>Robert Veale serve their time and are eventually released with

0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:58.000
<v Speaker 1>murder convictions on their records, But the other three languish

0:20:58.040 --> 0:20:59.960
<v Speaker 1>behind bars forgotten people.

0:21:02.680 --> 0:21:05.560
<v Speaker 2>But they were not forgotten by their parents or their

0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:09.600
<v Speaker 2>loved ones. You know, I'll never forget learning that Jonathan

0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:13.880
<v Speaker 2>Barr and James Hardin's dad would literally drive around with

0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:17.959
<v Speaker 2>boxes full of files regarding their cases in his trunk,

0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:23.320
<v Speaker 2>trying to get lawyers interested in taking his son's cases,

0:21:23.640 --> 0:21:26.680
<v Speaker 2>and Robert Taylor's family did similar things. They would write

0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:32.400
<v Speaker 2>letters and letters and letters to lawyers begging them for help. Finally,

0:21:32.600 --> 0:21:35.760
<v Speaker 2>in twenty ten, we learned about the case of the

0:21:35.760 --> 0:21:41.200
<v Speaker 2>Dixmore Five. Our colleague Josh tepfer knew a public defender

0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:45.120
<v Speaker 2>named Jennifer Blagg who had represented Robert Taylor on appeal.

0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:49.040
<v Speaker 2>She referred the case to Josh and we agreed to

0:21:49.119 --> 0:21:50.160
<v Speaker 2>take Robert's case.

0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:52.879
<v Speaker 1>By this time, Robert was in his early thirties.

0:21:53.040 --> 0:21:56.960
<v Speaker 2>That's right, he had served over fifteen years of his sentence.

0:21:57.760 --> 0:22:01.480
<v Speaker 1>Robert Taylor grew up with his parents, sister, and in Harvey, Illinois,

0:22:01.560 --> 0:22:05.199
<v Speaker 1>right next to Dixmore. From day one, Robert's dad, a

0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:09.439
<v Speaker 1>Navy vet, was his strongest defender. Robert Senior refused to

0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:11.600
<v Speaker 1>be broken by the fact that his son had gone

0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:13.800
<v Speaker 1>to prison because of the words he'd signed his name to.

0:22:14.720 --> 0:22:17.640
<v Speaker 1>When the Center on Wrongful Convictions agreed to take Robert's case,

0:22:17.920 --> 0:22:20.679
<v Speaker 1>his dad became a major presence in our lives. I

0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:23.160
<v Speaker 1>can still remember the smell of his leather jacket when

0:22:23.160 --> 0:22:25.920
<v Speaker 1>he hugged us and welcomed us to his family's struggle.

0:22:26.640 --> 0:22:29.680
<v Speaker 1>Around the same time, organizations like the Innocence Project and

0:22:29.800 --> 0:22:33.280
<v Speaker 1>Exoneration Project got involved in representing other members of the

0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:37.800
<v Speaker 1>Dix Moore five. Our collective first priority was identifying whose

0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:40.240
<v Speaker 1>DNA had been left at the crime scene.

0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:43.359
<v Speaker 2>We had a new tool called CODIS the combined DNA

0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:47.120
<v Speaker 2>index system, and over the time frame since the advent

0:22:47.200 --> 0:22:51.400
<v Speaker 2>of DNA testing in the late nineteen eighties, that database

0:22:51.480 --> 0:22:55.800
<v Speaker 2>had grown, and so the chances of finding the identity

0:22:56.280 --> 0:22:59.399
<v Speaker 2>of the person who raped and killed Katsa. Matthews had

0:22:59.440 --> 0:23:00.359
<v Speaker 2>grown exactly.

0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:02.440
<v Speaker 1>I mean, let's remember for a moment that we're talking

0:23:02.440 --> 0:23:05.400
<v Speaker 1>here about DNA that was taken from the semen left

0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:08.560
<v Speaker 1>on a rape victim. You cannot ask for better evidence

0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:11.479
<v Speaker 1>than that, and it's just sitting there forgotten. How can

0:23:11.520 --> 0:23:14.080
<v Speaker 1>you not want to know whose DNA that was? Isn't

0:23:14.080 --> 0:23:16.199
<v Speaker 1>that the most important question in this case had been

0:23:16.200 --> 0:23:19.280
<v Speaker 1>sitting there unanswered for fifteen years?

0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:24.199
<v Speaker 2>But where was it sitting? That was the first challenge.

0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:28.640
<v Speaker 2>And after a year of searching, we found the DNA

0:23:29.119 --> 0:23:32.360
<v Speaker 2>in some warehouse or in some trailer, and we then

0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:35.680
<v Speaker 2>had to get permission from the court to test the DNA.

0:23:36.520 --> 0:23:39.600
<v Speaker 2>We then sent the DNA off for testing to a lab,

0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:44.240
<v Speaker 2>and we waited and a lab extracted a profile, and

0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:46.879
<v Speaker 2>when that profile was extracted, it was run through the

0:23:46.920 --> 0:23:50.879
<v Speaker 2>code ISS database. A miracle of miracles, in March of

0:23:50.920 --> 0:23:55.840
<v Speaker 2>twenty eleven, we got a hit and the hit was

0:23:55.840 --> 0:24:03.320
<v Speaker 2>to a man, not a boy, a man named Randolph.

0:24:02.400 --> 0:24:05.320
<v Speaker 1>Now Willy Randolph, was a troubled guy. He was much

0:24:05.359 --> 0:24:09.320
<v Speaker 1>older than Kateresa or the Dixmore five. When Kateresa disappeared,

0:24:09.600 --> 0:24:12.960
<v Speaker 1>he was thirty three years old, more than twice her age.

0:24:13.480 --> 0:24:15.639
<v Speaker 1>Willi had been in and out of prison his entire

0:24:15.680 --> 0:24:19.200
<v Speaker 1>adult life for all sorts of different offenses. In fact,

0:24:19.240 --> 0:24:22.320
<v Speaker 1>he'd been paroled only a few months before Kateresa was

0:24:22.400 --> 0:24:25.560
<v Speaker 1>killed to a house within a mile of where she lived,

0:24:26.200 --> 0:24:29.359
<v Speaker 1>and Willie Randolph had previously been accused of rape in

0:24:29.400 --> 0:24:33.159
<v Speaker 1>that very same field by the interstate where Kateresa's body

0:24:33.320 --> 0:24:36.479
<v Speaker 1>was found. This is a person with a history of

0:24:36.520 --> 0:24:40.000
<v Speaker 1>these kinds of attacks, and his DNA and no one

0:24:40.000 --> 0:24:44.080
<v Speaker 1>else's was present at the crime scene. Finally, it all

0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:45.200
<v Speaker 1>made sense.

0:24:45.600 --> 0:24:48.280
<v Speaker 2>When we learned the identity of Willie Randolph, when we

0:24:48.400 --> 0:24:53.160
<v Speaker 2>investigated his background, when we learned the history of abusing

0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:59.160
<v Speaker 2>and sexually assaulting women, including young women, teenagers, we thought

0:24:59.160 --> 0:25:01.760
<v Speaker 2>this case was over. We thought we are going to

0:25:01.840 --> 0:25:04.720
<v Speaker 2>get these boys out tomorrow.

0:25:04.760 --> 0:25:07.720
<v Speaker 1>Exactly, there's no relationship at all between Willy Randolph and

0:25:07.760 --> 0:25:10.400
<v Speaker 1>any of the Dixmore five. He's not mentioned in any

0:25:10.440 --> 0:25:12.360
<v Speaker 1>of their confessions.

0:25:11.760 --> 0:25:14.320
<v Speaker 2>And why would there be a relationship. This is a

0:25:14.359 --> 0:25:18.240
<v Speaker 2>man with a long history of violence in his record,

0:25:18.280 --> 0:25:20.800
<v Speaker 2>and none of these boys had a history of violence.

0:25:20.960 --> 0:25:23.280
<v Speaker 1>Right, He's twice their age. When they were growing up

0:25:23.320 --> 0:25:24.760
<v Speaker 1>in the neighborhood, he was in prison.

0:25:25.080 --> 0:25:28.320
<v Speaker 2>Willy Randolph is the guy who did this to Katersa Matthews.

0:25:28.800 --> 0:25:31.439
<v Speaker 2>The DNA proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt.

0:25:32.040 --> 0:25:35.000
<v Speaker 2>Now we had to convince the prosecutors to do the

0:25:35.080 --> 0:25:35.520
<v Speaker 2>right thing.

0:25:36.040 --> 0:25:39.040
<v Speaker 1>But as incredible as it sounds, the state wouldn't let

0:25:39.160 --> 0:25:42.720
<v Speaker 1>go of their necrophilia theory, and the case dragged on

0:25:42.960 --> 0:25:43.760
<v Speaker 1>for months.

0:25:44.000 --> 0:25:48.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, old habits die hard. The state actually suggested

0:25:48.280 --> 0:25:53.120
<v Speaker 2>again that maybe Willy Randolph was their mystery necrophiliac.

0:25:53.359 --> 0:25:55.840
<v Speaker 1>This is an unbelievable thing. Still they're clinging to this

0:25:55.920 --> 0:25:59.520
<v Speaker 1>theory that five teenage boys assaulted Katersa Matthews, left no

0:25:59.600 --> 0:26:02.960
<v Speaker 1>trace of their DNA behind, and here comes Willie Randolph,

0:26:03.080 --> 0:26:05.879
<v Speaker 1>the older man, the man of the history of assaults

0:26:05.880 --> 0:26:08.760
<v Speaker 1>and violent crime and rape in that very field, and

0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:11.959
<v Speaker 1>just happens to defile her body. It beggars belief.

0:26:12.200 --> 0:26:16.399
<v Speaker 2>It still took six to seven months to investigate whether

0:26:16.440 --> 0:26:19.919
<v Speaker 2>there was any link between Willie Randolph and any of

0:26:19.960 --> 0:26:22.520
<v Speaker 2>the Dicks more five, there wasn't one.

0:26:22.840 --> 0:26:26.040
<v Speaker 1>Meanwhile, we were coming back to court every few weeks

0:26:26.040 --> 0:26:28.879
<v Speaker 1>to get an update on the state's investigation and to

0:26:29.040 --> 0:26:32.520
<v Speaker 1>ask the judge is today the day of exoneration? And

0:26:32.640 --> 0:26:36.359
<v Speaker 1>for six long months we were disappointed. I remember coming

0:26:36.359 --> 0:26:39.960
<v Speaker 1>home after those court dates and crying with frustration that

0:26:40.080 --> 0:26:42.640
<v Speaker 1>I was able to go home, but Robert Taylor, our clients,

0:26:42.720 --> 0:26:43.920
<v Speaker 1>had to go back to a prison cell.

0:26:44.720 --> 0:26:47.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I remember pulling out my hair and I had

0:26:47.520 --> 0:26:48.200
<v Speaker 2>hair back then.

0:26:49.160 --> 0:26:49.880
<v Speaker 1>That's where it all went.

0:26:50.000 --> 0:26:52.640
<v Speaker 2>That's where it all went because we had the best

0:26:52.840 --> 0:26:58.640
<v Speaker 2>possible evidence of their innocence, and not only were they

0:26:58.720 --> 0:27:03.520
<v Speaker 2>refusing to our clients, Willie Randolph was on the street.

0:27:04.200 --> 0:27:07.240
<v Speaker 2>He was out of prison on parole, and he could

0:27:07.280 --> 0:27:11.200
<v Speaker 2>be doing this to somebody else. It was driving me crazy.

0:27:11.200 --> 0:27:14.520
<v Speaker 1>Every time before we walked into that courtroom, I remember

0:27:14.560 --> 0:27:18.679
<v Speaker 1>watching Robert hold his whole body just taught. His muscles

0:27:18.720 --> 0:27:21.960
<v Speaker 1>would be tense, and you could see those twenty years

0:27:21.960 --> 0:27:24.480
<v Speaker 1>of trauma that he had endured and the toll it

0:27:24.520 --> 0:27:27.840
<v Speaker 1>had taken on him. He couldn't relax into the possibility

0:27:28.400 --> 0:27:30.120
<v Speaker 1>that it was going to be his day that day,

0:27:30.720 --> 0:27:32.040
<v Speaker 1>and it wasn't his day.

0:27:31.920 --> 0:27:34.479
<v Speaker 2>For months until it finally was.

0:27:37.440 --> 0:27:42.119
<v Speaker 1>On November third, twenty eleven, Robert Ville Cheyenne Sharp, James Harden,

0:27:42.280 --> 0:27:46.800
<v Speaker 1>Jonathan Barr, and Robert Taylor were exonerated. Their convictions were

0:27:46.880 --> 0:27:50.040
<v Speaker 1>thrown out nearly twenty years to the day after Kateresa

0:27:50.080 --> 0:27:54.000
<v Speaker 1>matthews disappearance, The Dix Moore five had wrongly served a

0:27:54.040 --> 0:27:58.720
<v Speaker 1>total of more than fifty years in prison. Eventually, Willie

0:27:58.840 --> 0:28:01.879
<v Speaker 1>Randolph was charged with the attack on Kateresa Matthews based

0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:06.080
<v Speaker 1>on DNA evidence. He's still a waiting trial today. We're

0:28:06.119 --> 0:28:08.520
<v Speaker 1>proud to have helped free the Dixmore five, but as

0:28:08.560 --> 0:28:11.760
<v Speaker 1>our colleague Josh Tepfer put it, this is not justice.

0:28:12.520 --> 0:28:14.600
<v Speaker 1>Justice would have happened a long time ago.

0:28:17.680 --> 0:28:21.080
<v Speaker 2>Hello, hey, Robert, Stephen Laura A long time.

0:28:21.200 --> 0:28:23.240
<v Speaker 1>I'll see too long.

0:28:23.320 --> 0:28:23.760
<v Speaker 2>Too long.

0:28:24.000 --> 0:28:26.040
<v Speaker 1>Good to hear your voice. What's going on with you

0:28:26.119 --> 0:28:30.120
<v Speaker 1>these days, Robert, I'm hanging in now. How's your son doing?

0:28:30.520 --> 0:28:33.040
<v Speaker 2>He's all right. I got picked boy. You got to

0:28:33.040 --> 0:28:35.679
<v Speaker 2>take him up to the school. Yeah, I'll pick him

0:28:35.720 --> 0:28:36.479
<v Speaker 2>up every day.

0:28:37.200 --> 0:28:39.280
<v Speaker 3>Hold your point seven going away?

0:28:40.160 --> 0:28:41.640
<v Speaker 1>What's your favorite thing to do with your son?

0:28:41.720 --> 0:28:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Robert I'd like to see him smad. I.

0:28:44.480 --> 0:28:49.400
<v Speaker 1>So you can't give those twenty years back to Robert

0:28:49.480 --> 0:28:50.720
<v Speaker 1>or to any of the Dicks, Moore five, or any

0:28:50.720 --> 0:28:52.760
<v Speaker 1>of the guys we're going to talk about on this podcast.

0:28:52.800 --> 0:28:55.520
<v Speaker 1>You can't give that time back. But what you can

0:28:55.680 --> 0:29:00.520
<v Speaker 1>do is make the years decades that they lost means something.

0:29:00.920 --> 0:29:03.960
<v Speaker 3>One of the greatest tragedies in my opinion, and I've

0:29:04.000 --> 0:29:06.800
<v Speaker 3>been teaching about the Central Park five case for years

0:29:07.520 --> 0:29:10.240
<v Speaker 3>and to this day. When I introduced the case in

0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:13.880
<v Speaker 3>my criminal law classes, the one thing that people don't

0:29:13.920 --> 0:29:16.720
<v Speaker 3>know about the case is that the kids were innocent.

0:29:17.320 --> 0:29:21.560
<v Speaker 3>So few people knew that even after Matthias Rayes confessed,

0:29:21.880 --> 0:29:25.120
<v Speaker 3>even after these kids were let out of prison, even

0:29:25.160 --> 0:29:28.440
<v Speaker 3>after they were compensated. It is the footnote in this

0:29:28.520 --> 0:29:33.480
<v Speaker 3>story that gets lost in our collective consciousness. Maybe not anymore. Finally,

0:29:33.520 --> 0:29:36.680
<v Speaker 3>there is attention being brought to who they actually were

0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:37.680
<v Speaker 3>and what they suffered.

0:29:38.040 --> 0:29:39.440
<v Speaker 1>And that's a big part of how Steve and I

0:29:39.480 --> 0:29:43.200
<v Speaker 1>approach these cases. Right It's about of course getting them

0:29:43.240 --> 0:29:45.440
<v Speaker 1>out of prisent fighting for them, opening up those doors,

0:29:45.960 --> 0:29:48.640
<v Speaker 1>but it's also about telling the stories. It's about making

0:29:48.640 --> 0:29:51.320
<v Speaker 1>it meaningful. It's about saying their name. It's about not

0:29:51.360 --> 0:29:53.600
<v Speaker 1>forgetting what happened to them and changing it so it

0:29:53.600 --> 0:30:00.800
<v Speaker 1>doesn't happen again. Like the Central Park five, the story

0:30:00.840 --> 0:30:03.560
<v Speaker 1>of the Dixmore five is about convictions that were driven

0:30:03.600 --> 0:30:07.200
<v Speaker 1>by prejudice rather than proof. But the injustices of the

0:30:07.240 --> 0:30:09.680
<v Speaker 1>super predator era or not just a New York City

0:30:09.720 --> 0:30:12.480
<v Speaker 1>thing or a Chicago thing, And although we may want

0:30:12.520 --> 0:30:15.200
<v Speaker 1>to think so, they're not even really a nineteen nineties thing.

0:30:15.800 --> 0:30:19.840
<v Speaker 1>In times of great fear or moral panic, prejudices can

0:30:19.880 --> 0:30:25.080
<v Speaker 1>distort the search for the truth. Mistaken assumptions, faulty investigations,

0:30:25.400 --> 0:30:28.600
<v Speaker 1>and flawed evidence are all still real, and they still

0:30:28.640 --> 0:30:32.640
<v Speaker 1>cause wrongful convictions across the country. Every day. We tell

0:30:32.680 --> 0:30:35.440
<v Speaker 1>these stories so that we can learn from them, so

0:30:35.480 --> 0:30:38.680
<v Speaker 1>that one day there won't be any more Dixmore fives.

0:30:40.360 --> 0:30:43.120
<v Speaker 1>To all the Dixmore five, but especially to our client

0:30:43.240 --> 0:30:47.480
<v Speaker 1>and friend, Robert Taylor, You've endured years of injustice while

0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:51.239
<v Speaker 1>remaining a pillar of strength and resilience. To you and

0:30:51.280 --> 0:30:54.160
<v Speaker 1>your families, we wish you all the best. Thanks for

0:30:54.240 --> 0:31:04.280
<v Speaker 1>letting us tell your story. Wrongful Conviction, False Confessions is

0:31:04.280 --> 0:31:07.680
<v Speaker 1>the production of Lava for Good podcasts in association with

0:31:07.760 --> 0:31:11.560
<v Speaker 1>Signal Company Number One. Special thanks to our executive producer

0:31:11.680 --> 0:31:14.760
<v Speaker 1>Jason Flamm and the team at Signal Company Number one.

0:31:15.080 --> 0:31:19.160
<v Speaker 1>Executive producer Kevin wardis Senior producer and Pope, and additional

0:31:19.200 --> 0:31:23.000
<v Speaker 1>production and editing by Connor Hall. Our music was composed

0:31:23.000 --> 0:31:26.320
<v Speaker 1>by Jay Ralph. You can follow me on Instagram or

0:31:26.360 --> 0:31:28.560
<v Speaker 1>Twitter at Laura Nyrider and.

0:31:28.480 --> 0:31:31.440
<v Speaker 2>You can follow me on Twitter at s Drizzen.

0:31:32.200 --> 0:31:36.080
<v Speaker 1>For more information on the show, visit wrongfulconvictionpodcast dot com

0:31:36.360 --> 0:31:38.800
<v Speaker 1>and be sure to follow the show on Instagram at

0:31:38.840 --> 0:31:43.320
<v Speaker 1>Wrongful Conviction, on Facebook at Wrongful Conviction Podcast, and on

0:31:43.360 --> 0:31:45.160
<v Speaker 1>Twitter at wrong Conviction