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Speaker 1: Also media, who did it?

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Speaker 2: I did it?

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Speaker 3: I pressed, oh you did it? You did it? I

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Speaker 3: also did it. I have also pressed the buttons that

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Speaker 3: I have to start to start my job in the

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Speaker 3: podcast which you're listening to right now, the podcast that

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Speaker 3: I do for a job. You know who else does

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Speaker 3: podcasts my job?

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Speaker 1: This is why people ask you to do the atonal

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Speaker 1: shrieking because what was that?

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Speaker 3: You happy?

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Speaker 1: Now? Beautiful?

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Speaker 3: You get enough? Andrew T Welcome to the program.

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Speaker 2: What up? How's it going?

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Speaker 1: Give us one shriek? Andrew? Just one time?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? That was tonal.

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Speaker 1: There was.

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Speaker 3: Subreddit's going to be livid. People are going to be

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Speaker 3: letting you up, Andrew.

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Speaker 2: Get the get the get the music theory people on here.

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Speaker 3: I want to go, Yeah, somebody make an e d

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Speaker 3: M track from all of our all my various a

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Speaker 3: tonal openings. But also you know who's not a tonal.

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Speaker 3: Dolly Parton and the Federalists Twitter account just win for

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Speaker 3: her evil take on Christianity, which is I don't actually know,

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Speaker 3: but I'm assuming it's be nice to everybody, because most

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Speaker 3: of what Dolly Parton says is be nice to everybody

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Speaker 3: and give children free books. That's been my general experience. Oh,

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Speaker 3: also have incredible chemistry with Burt Reynolds.

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Speaker 2: Is it possible that the federal society is like, if

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Speaker 2: you give children free books, that's actually doing violence to

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Speaker 2: them because they haven't I've gotten a job and earned

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Speaker 2: money to buy books.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they think there's a good chance that's what's going

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Speaker 3: on there. I also think this is this is like

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Speaker 3: this is like a case of pick, like a like

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Speaker 3: a naked caveman picking a fistfight with a mastodon. Like

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Speaker 3: you really do not want to want to throw down

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Speaker 3: against Dolly Parton.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she's like in top ten of most likable people.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, she is probably the most liked person in this

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Speaker 3: entire country. Yeah, by people in this country at least,

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Speaker 3: you know who's not liked in this country or most

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Speaker 3: other countries. Ooh, the Department of Defense controversial.

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Speaker 2: You know that's true.

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Speaker 3: People like soldiers Andrew. But even so, if you want

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Speaker 3: to talk, if you talk to soldiers, the number one

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Speaker 3: thing they complain about is the DoD Right. One of

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Speaker 3: the funny things about the Chagos case is that it

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Speaker 3: involves what I would describe as incomprehensible evil from two empires,

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Speaker 3: one fading into obscurity, and the other rising to the

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Speaker 3: precipitous heights from which we will all spend the rest

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Speaker 3: of our lives watching it fall. That's what we're going

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Speaker 3: to talk about.

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Speaker 2: This really is like a relay race, like a.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's yeah, it's it's beautiful. It's just like

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Speaker 3: two sides of the graph meeting for one brief shining

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Speaker 3: moment and before.

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Speaker 1: We end this cold open, I just just one more,

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Speaker 1: one more, a tonal shriek.

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Speaker 3: You So I'm not a I'm not a wind up doll,

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Speaker 3: all right, you know I'm a person.

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Speaker 1: Two three, Ah, beautiful.

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Speaker 3: We're back. So from where I stand, both the British

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Speaker 3: Empire and the United States have pretty equal levels of

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Speaker 3: guilt over Chagos, right. I wouldn't say either Americans or

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Speaker 3: Brits have more to feel ashamed of here, but of

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Speaker 3: course officials from both governments have a vested interest in

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Speaker 3: making the other into the bad guy. And you get

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Speaker 3: a hint of this in an article I found in

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Speaker 3: a French journal at two Days Ocean Indian by Julian Darup,

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Speaker 3: who writes Britain was forced on her own by its

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Speaker 3: former colony, the USA, to depopulate Chagos of its indigenous

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Speaker 3: population of British subjects and force them into exile in

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Speaker 3: a foreign country, against all the principle of the United Nations,

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Speaker 3: the principles of human rights, and the Magna Carta. A

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Speaker 3: unique case perhaps about precedent in British colonial history. Like

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Speaker 3: they didn't get forced. They wanted some nukes for cheaper.

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Speaker 2: It's not forced, you can say a lot, but without

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Speaker 2: precedent is the wiest lie.

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Speaker 3: This would be like, this would be like back when

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Speaker 3: I did drugs, if I was like, well, my drug

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Speaker 3: dealer forced me to buy that cocaine with all that

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Speaker 3: weed because it was just too cheap. You know, when

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Speaker 3: I did drugs, I only do gas station drugs now, Sophie,

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Speaker 3: I'm gas station sober. I keep saying this just kratom,

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Speaker 3: Trucker pills, and beer. Sure, Robert, sometimes some of that

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Speaker 3: Delta eight stuff while it's still legal. Please don't talk

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Speaker 3: about it. My god, those weird mushroom gummies that are

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Speaker 3: apparently legal in gas stations in Texas now glorious gas

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Speaker 3: stations in a lot of states now sell all of

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Speaker 3: the drugs that you used to have to spend like

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Speaker 3: twenty five minutes listening to Romstein videos with a weirdo

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Speaker 3: in his apartment to get it's wonderful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, now you watch them with just like a kid

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Speaker 2: who's there. We're here for minimum.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. No longer do I have to sit through an

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Speaker 3: entire bass Nectar album to get mushrooms. I just go

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Speaker 3: to what should have been a seven to eleven in

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Speaker 3: a civilized nation. That nectar, I don't know, he's probably

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Speaker 3: base nectar. I don't care. I don't care.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to guess you're wrong, and that's fine.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, bass nectar is a worm or like a little fly.

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Speaker 3: I'm thinking I'm fishing pilled these days, Andrew. I got

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Speaker 3: my hunting license in hand and everything, and I'm gonna go.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna go fish. So not for bass, because I

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Speaker 3: don't think they're up here, but I'm thinking of bass

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Speaker 3: because I used to fish for bass. I consider fish oil.

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Speaker 3: I call it bass nectar, Andrew. It's not made from baths.

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Speaker 2: But y'all, y'all can y'all can just get dungeonus crabs

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Speaker 2: from the ocean at times of the year, right.

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Speaker 3: You sure can at times of the year. Yeah, and

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Speaker 3: you could get muscles. But all of our muscles are

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Speaker 3: poisoned right now, so we are not doing that.

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Speaker 2: This.

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Speaker 1: It's like a huge, huge shame because uh, I used

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Speaker 1: to go to muscle Monday every week.

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Speaker 3: Oh glorious, Oh my god.

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Speaker 2: And then also the food was good.

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Speaker 3: I have two great muscle memories. One time me and

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Speaker 3: me and a very good friend.

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Speaker 1: Like how great Andrews joke just was?

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Speaker 3: I'm sorry? Did I What did I miss? Not ship?

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Speaker 3: What did I miss?

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Speaker 1: Okay, you'll listen to it when you listen to the edit,

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Speaker 1: and I just watch you to know Andrew deserved his flowers.

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Speaker 1: Here you go, Andrew, Nice to you, and I.

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Speaker 3: Will be proud of you in the future. When I

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Speaker 3: listened to this episode, Andrew. But now I got to

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Speaker 3: talk my muscle stories because I got two really good

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Speaker 3: muscles stories. One is me and a very good friend

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Speaker 3: of mine spent like a week in Baja and we

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Speaker 3: went like clambering down the side of this cliff side

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Speaker 3: that was filled with like tidal pools, and there were

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Speaker 3: all of these muscles that we like picked and then

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Speaker 3: climbed up the rockside and like they were alive until

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Speaker 3: the second we threw them into the fucking past. It

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Speaker 3: was amazing, glorious, one of the best things I've ever eaten.

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Speaker 3: And then a year or two later, with that same friend,

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Speaker 3: I was in the UH. I was in the all

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Speaker 3: you can eat buffet at the Bellaccio, having an eating

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Speaker 3: contest that we had decided ahead of time would be muscles,

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Speaker 3: And unfortunately, as soon as we arrived, we called ahead

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Speaker 3: to make sure the bilacio had muscles, and they were like,

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Speaker 3: oh yeah, we got them. And as soon as we

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Speaker 3: arrived we realized the muscles have been rancid, and the

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Speaker 3: biloaggio's staff had decided to cover them with thousand island

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Speaker 3: dressing in order to disguise the fact that they were

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Speaker 3: no longer fit for consumption. Now, this friend and I

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Speaker 3: are both the kind of people that, when we realize

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Speaker 3: a plan we have made is untenable, our only thought

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Speaker 3: is to just kind of fight through it, right, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's it's battle of the bulge logic. We're Americans, you know,

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Speaker 3: when it all costs, and in this case, that meant

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Speaker 3: we each consumed several pounds of ransom muscles. I won

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Speaker 3: it fourteen plates.

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Speaker 1: By the way, I'm really too I'm trying to guess

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Speaker 1: which friend of.

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Speaker 3: Yours is we were dizzy. He'll listen to the show.

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Speaker 3: At some point we got disastrously ill, and in my

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Speaker 3: case it was after I drove home, and in his

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Speaker 3: case it was on a Greyhound bus back to Elm.

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Speaker 2: No, Lord, I can I just say, I will just

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Speaker 2: throw this out there. If you're having an eating contest,

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Speaker 2: you can't go with muscles bro at the Lago Buffet.

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Speaker 3: We did, My man, we did.

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Speaker 2: It's like, no, not because of the danger, it's just

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Speaker 2: you gotta go with high, high margin foods.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 3: It was a bad decision because we The Blagio buffet

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Speaker 3: has a bunch of like really good looking food in it,

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Speaker 3: and we walked past it for fourteen plates. It was

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Speaker 3: a horrible decision.

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Speaker 1: Did you at least did you at least still a bathroom?

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Speaker 3: Uh? No, not from the Belagio?

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Speaker 1: Damn it?

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Speaker 2: Robert can I and I tell my muscle story, which

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Speaker 2: for sure, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're allegedly allegedly Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well I'm not positive. Yeah, I guess I will just say.

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Speaker 2: This still narrows it down too much, so it'll be

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Speaker 2: pretty clear who this is. And because you can only

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Speaker 2: have two neighbors, really, it's pretty I guess if you

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Speaker 2: are really sleuth and you could figure this out. But

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Speaker 2: in college, I was friends with this guy who had

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Speaker 2: you know what, actually this is? This is this could

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Speaker 2: be a couple of different people. Anyway, his stepdad owned

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Speaker 2: a house next door to a beachside presidential compound, and

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Speaker 2: we went and visited, and we were we were just

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Speaker 2: digging muscles on the on the on their what we

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Speaker 2: thought was their beach, and you know, the lines are

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Speaker 2: not very clearly drawn. And we came back I can't

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Speaker 2: remember it was the mom or the dad was like,

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Speaker 2: you guys didn't go past this, did you. Uh? And

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Speaker 2: it turned out we possibly had poached some of the

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Speaker 2: king's muscles.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, I'm surprised they didn't black bag you

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Speaker 3: and send you to Chagos, which, by the way, is

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Speaker 3: where this story ends.

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Speaker 2: Is this is where they would have It was a

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Speaker 2: president at a time when that very well could have happened.

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Speaker 2: And I guess I'll just leave it at that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all well done.

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Speaker 3: Anyway, that was quite a long digression about muscles. I guess, sorry,

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Speaker 3: but I thought it was. Yeah, so that's quote I

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Speaker 3: read from those British clod From that from that French

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Speaker 3: article where they were like, ah, the poor British forced

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Speaker 3: to forced to ethnically cleanse their island by the Americans.

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Speaker 2: Something done before.

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Speaker 3: I will say this is our fault equally with the British,

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Speaker 3: but I consider that a silly way to look at

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Speaker 3: this entire situation. Right. Yeah, So from the end of

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Speaker 3: the British Empire, the decision they're making here is that

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Speaker 3: their best case scenario is they is to keep having

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Speaker 3: an empire on paper, but also like not have to

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Speaker 3: do anything there, just kind of let the Americans do it, right,

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Speaker 3: So they consider this a pretty good deal. Yeah. Now

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Speaker 3: for our part, the Americans, we are equally responsible, but

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Speaker 3: we deny our responsibility in a different way.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: The British like to play out were put upon by

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Speaker 3: those American bullies and the Americans and our attempt to

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Speaker 3: ignore our complicity in this. We do the thing we

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Speaker 3: do best, which is we be we pretend to be

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Speaker 3: big dumb tourists, like, well, no, we didn't know. I'm

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Speaker 3: just a poor, simple bar from Corns. You know, I

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Speaker 3: didn't know there was people on this island when I

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Speaker 3: built my navy base. That was not a Kansas accent

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Speaker 3: born Leghorn was like, what are we doing? Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: don't know why. I don't know why I said Kansas,

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Speaker 3: but there you go sort of like, well.

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Speaker 2: You'd imagine like a real good LBJ Paradise, Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: would have done yeah, yeah, like and it is exactly

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Speaker 2: that kind of attitude of just like, well, well shucks,

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize there were people there.

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Speaker 3: Nobody told us, you know, and that was like, you

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Speaker 3: can we have paperwork from Navy officers being up being like,

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Speaker 3: we need to have the British kick these people out

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Speaker 3: for us, because otherwise we're gonna look like shit when

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Speaker 3: people find out that we had them do this, you know.

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Speaker 3: And it is very clear that American officers were well

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Speaker 3: aware of what had to be done to ready Chagos

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Speaker 3: for them act. They demanded it in nineteen sixty five.

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Speaker 3: Admiral and this is one of the most ridiculous names

246
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Speaker 3: in Navy history, Elmo zoomweight Zoomwalt told his British counterparts,

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Speaker 3: fucking Elmo and Elmo is this is a genocide done

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Speaker 3: in part by an Elmo, you know, just tragic. My

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Speaker 3: own personal desire is to have no indigenous laborers on

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Speaker 3: the island because I can foresee the kind of political

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Speaker 3: complication that the Soviets always make when you have that

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Speaker 3: kind of indigenous population. Therefore, I strongly advocate that there'll

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Speaker 3: be none there when that we take over and establish

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Speaker 3: the base. And it's such a such a navy man

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Speaker 3: in the fucking sixties thing to be like, Yeah, it's

256
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Speaker 3: those damned communists making all these people angry that we

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Speaker 3: have turned their sparkling beaches into diesel fuel. Yeah, coons

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Speaker 3: for some reason.

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Speaker 2: The only way to make sure we don't look bad

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Speaker 2: is to you know, like exile all of them.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, kick them all out. The Communists can't take advantage

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Speaker 3: of this situation. Amazing stuff. When one reads the correspondence

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Speaker 3: of US Navy officials who first laid eyes on Diego Garcil,

264
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Speaker 3: you can almost feel their hunger, right. They ride about

265
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Speaker 3: like a toolls lagoon could shelter like massive numbers of ships,

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Speaker 3: huge fleets of them. And it's also one of those

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Speaker 3: things because of their location, storms don't really hit Chagos

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Speaker 3: like they get like rainstorms and stuff, but cyclones very

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Speaker 3: rarely get close enough to Chago's for it to be

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Speaker 3: a problem. Admiral John McCain described the islands as the

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Speaker 3: Malta of the Indian Ocean. The other John McCain, not

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Speaker 3: the one who didn't quite get plane flying down his

273
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Speaker 3: dad though. So I gave Julian a little bit of

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Speaker 3: shit there for in my eyes spreading some propaganda. But

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Speaker 3: I will say his paper has a lot of good

276
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Speaker 3: stuff in it, and it actually did inform me of

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Speaker 3: an added dimension to this horror that my earlier reading

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Speaker 3: had not presented to me. Robin Cook, then a Minister

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Speaker 3: of Parliament Labor, later claimed that the initial base site

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Speaker 3: that the United Kingdom planned to offer to the United

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Speaker 3: States was a different island, and not the heavily inhabited

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Speaker 3: Diego Garcia. This island, Aldabra was rejected because giant tortoises

283
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Speaker 3: nested nested there, and neither great military power wanted to

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Speaker 3: risk the bad pr of hurting tortoises. Now, Jesus Christ,

285
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Speaker 3: I will say, I think tortoises and human beings have

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Speaker 3: an equal right to keep living in their homes. That

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Speaker 3: considerably outweighed the British desire for better nukes or the

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Speaker 3: American desire from an easier place from which to bomb

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Speaker 3: the Middle East. But it is pretty fucked up that

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Speaker 3: They were like, well, we can't can't kick those tortoises

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Speaker 3: out of their home. Better kick the people out.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's so uniquely awful. It is.

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Speaker 3: It's like a fascinating and like almost yeah almost, yeah,

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Speaker 3: yeah yeah yeah, it's kind of evil. You can only

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Speaker 3: do while wearing a specific sort of khaki suit.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, amazing scat I have.

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Speaker 2: This would looks terrible. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: You can see the hat on the military officer, you know,

300
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Speaker 3: one of those beautiful peaked ones. The question left to

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Speaker 3: both the British and the Americans then was this, how

302
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Speaker 3: do you clear an entire culture of people off of

303
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Speaker 3: their home? And the answer is slowly soon after creating

304
00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:30,160
Speaker 3: the Biot, and again the Biot is this political fiction.

305
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,120
Speaker 3: The British have lassoed some islands together on a map

306
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,360
Speaker 3: and said, we're giving the other islands we had previously

307
00:16:36,440 --> 00:16:39,040
Speaker 3: owned up to be independent countries. We get to keep

308
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,080
Speaker 3: this chunk of them, right, So they make this and

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Speaker 3: they inc a deal with the US in nineteen sixty five,

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Speaker 3: and after this point Great Britain begins, which you might

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Speaker 3: describe as a slow motion exile of the Chegosian people.

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Speaker 3: At first, this took the form of encouraging migration away

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Speaker 3: from Diego, Garcia to Mauritius. Free tickets on quarterly steamship

314
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Speaker 3: were offered to Islanders who simply wanted to explore their neighborhood.

315
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Speaker 3: But bit by bit they started restricting the ability of

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Speaker 3: locals on vacation or who had moved away temporarily. You know,

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00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,080
Speaker 3: you get someone who like, well, I want to make

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Speaker 3: some money, I want to acquire a couple of things

319
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Speaker 3: that I can't get on Chiagos. I'm going to move

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Speaker 3: to Meridias for like five years, right, and then I'll

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Speaker 3: go back home, you know. So some of these people

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Speaker 3: start to find out when they try to book routes

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Speaker 3: back home that there's no such route any longer. There's

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Speaker 3: no more steamships going to Chagos now. Because Chagos is

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Speaker 3: so isolated, they don't have a way of messaging back home.

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Speaker 3: There's no way for them to warn their families or

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Speaker 3: to explain what has happened to them to the people.

328
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Speaker 3: Like from the perspective of people living on Chagos, their

329
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Speaker 3: family members are leaving on like short trips, like I'm

330
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Speaker 3: gonna go be on vacation for three months, and then

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Speaker 3: they just don't have her come home and you never

332
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Speaker 3: find out why. Right, this is the British plan.

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00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:55,239
Speaker 2: Yeah sounds about right, I guess, Yeah, sounds about right.

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Speaker 3: I guess. The biot was in British law, British territory

335
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Speaker 3: and all legal precedent makes it clear that the Chagosians

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00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,080
Speaker 3: should have been treated as citizens of the crown. That

337
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,880
Speaker 3: would have created a problem though. If you tell these

338
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,720
Speaker 3: people you can never go home, but hey, you have

339
00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:18,399
Speaker 3: UK citizenship now, they might like go to London and

340
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:21,639
Speaker 3: find a journalist or a lawyer and start being like

341
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,960
Speaker 3: our culture's being annihilated for some reason, you know, and

342
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,600
Speaker 3: that's a real issue. You can't have them doing that.

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Speaker 3: So the British they decide like, well, if these people

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Speaker 3: figure out that they have the right to be citizens,

345
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Speaker 3: we can't stop them. But what we can do is

346
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Speaker 3: just never say anything.

347
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Speaker 2: Jesus.

348
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Speaker 3: It's amazing stuff. A Foreign Office memo from nineteen seventy wrote.

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Speaker 2: This is some mister beanship, by the way, this is crazy.

350
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Speaker 2: It's bean esque.

351
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Speaker 3: Yeah. A Foreign Office memo from nineteen seventy writes this

352
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,320
Speaker 3: out directly, quote, we would not wish it to become

353
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:02,960
Speaker 3: general knowledge that some of the inhabitants have lived on

354
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 3: Diego Garcia for at least two generations, and could therefore

355
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:10,760
Speaker 3: be regarded as belongers. We shall therefore advise ministers in

356
00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,800
Speaker 3: handling supplementary questions about whether Diego Garcia is inhabited, to

357
00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,480
Speaker 3: say that there is only a small number of contract

358
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,639
Speaker 3: laborers from the Seychelles and Mauritius engaged in work that

359
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:27,280
Speaker 3: is being economical with the truth. That's how they describe it.

360
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:31,200
Speaker 3: We're not lying, we're economizing with our fact.

361
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Speaker 2: True, that's true. The truth is in recession and yeah,

362
00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 2: what can you do?

363
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,880
Speaker 3: What can you do? There's gotta be some austerity. Hey,

364
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,879
Speaker 3: we're the UK. There's one thing we can still do,

365
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:47,960
Speaker 3: and it's austerity. If the memo continued, a member of

366
00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,640
Speaker 3: the House of Commons were to ask about the welfare

367
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Speaker 3: of these contract laborers in the wake of the US

368
00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,760
Speaker 3: base being set up on the island, they were to

369
00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,359
Speaker 3: be brushed off and the matter noted as hypothetical until

370
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 3: construction actually began. A nineteen sixty eight memo from a

371
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,800
Speaker 3: Foreign Office legal observer legal observer had been even more blunt, bragging,

372
00:20:06,160 --> 00:20:07,840
Speaker 3: we are able to make up the rules as we

373
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Speaker 3: go along. And treat inhabitants of biote as not belonging

374
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:17,800
Speaker 3: to it in any sense. Why not? Yeah, well, what

375
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,960
Speaker 3: if we just decide to fuck these people over and

376
00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:24,320
Speaker 3: never explain it. That seems easier for us. I love

377
00:20:24,400 --> 00:20:28,560
Speaker 3: the rules based international orator Andrew t. It's dope.

378
00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:33,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know it is. It's true that it has

379
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:37,040
Speaker 2: always been this way, but yeah, the fiction that this

380
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,080
Speaker 2: is laws is crazy.

381
00:20:39,560 --> 00:20:42,960
Speaker 3: It is like, you know, if you want to, progress

382
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,800
Speaker 3: can be defined I guess as being like one empire

383
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:49,879
Speaker 3: being like it is fine to depopulate vast numbers of

384
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:52,800
Speaker 3: white people from their homes and even kill huge numbers

385
00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:56,040
Speaker 3: of them to the next empire is going like, no, no, no,

386
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 3: you just make them live in another country, never tell

387
00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:02,440
Speaker 3: them why, and lie about it and make sure they're

388
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 3: not white. That's number one, right, And yeah that's progress, baby, Yeah,

389
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:16,119
Speaker 3: great stuff. So under this logic, no explanation was needed

390
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:18,600
Speaker 3: as to why Chegosians weren't allowed to return home to

391
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:21,119
Speaker 3: their loved ones, their houses, and the graves of their ancestors.

392
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,920
Speaker 3: They were just guest workers. The government had brought bought

393
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,959
Speaker 3: out their old employer. It owned the plantations, and they

394
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:31,040
Speaker 3: were no longer needed to work them. One of the

395
00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,080
Speaker 3: first wave of exiles for an idea of how this

396
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 3: works in practice for a lot of like the first

397
00:21:35,160 --> 00:21:38,200
Speaker 3: chunk of Chagosians who get forced out, is Rita Bankole.

398
00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:41,440
Speaker 3: She had been born in June nineteen twenty eight on

399
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:44,800
Speaker 3: an island called Peros Banjos, about one hundred and fifty

400
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 3: miles north of Diego, Garcia. Her great great grandmother had

401
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,640
Speaker 3: been enslaved and taken from Madagascar, and ever since Chagos

402
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 3: had been where her family belonged. She joins the vast

403
00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:58,159
Speaker 3: majority of Chagos exiles in recalling her life on the

404
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:01,600
Speaker 3: island as quite good. Quote. You had your house, you

405
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 3: didn't even have rent to pay. With my ration, I

406
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 3: got ten and a half pounds of rice each week.

407
00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 3: I got ten and a half pounds of flour. I

408
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 3: got my oil, I got my salt, I got my beans.

409
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,720
Speaker 3: It was only butter beans and red beans that we

410
00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 3: needed to buy. And to be clear, for you libertarian

411
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,959
Speaker 3: minded folks out there, they're not being given these rations

412
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 3: because the British Empire is like taking care of them.

413
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,760
Speaker 3: This is pay for the work that they do.

414
00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:24,520
Speaker 1: Right.

415
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,320
Speaker 3: They are laboring and they're being paid in rice because

416
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:29,359
Speaker 3: there's really not a lot to buy with money. Right.

417
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,440
Speaker 3: These people use money occasionally to buy like liquor or

418
00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,240
Speaker 3: special kinds of beans and spices, but like, they get

419
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:39,440
Speaker 3: paid a lot in food because it's more useful to

420
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 3: them often than cash.

421
00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:40,760
Speaker 2: Right.

422
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:43,400
Speaker 3: But this is not like a gift they're being given.

423
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 3: They are laboring for this, right. Rita also recalls having

424
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 3: a dog named Cators who would dive into the sea

425
00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:52,600
Speaker 3: and bring fish back to her, which sounds pretty cool

426
00:22:52,640 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 3: to me, Right, that's kind of dope. Yeah, that's adorable. Now, Andrew,

427
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 3: I'm going to have some real sad stuff about all

428
00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 3: the dogs in this island to tell you in a

429
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,159
Speaker 3: little bit. So I wanted to. I wanted to give

430
00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 3: you one happy dog story about Catorus the fishing dogs.

431
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 1: You didn't tell us that there was sad.

432
00:23:07,480 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 3: Oh this is this is gonna be a real bad

433
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:11,640
Speaker 3: So I picked.

434
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 1: Up I picked up Anderson because she wanted to be

435
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:16,560
Speaker 1: picked up. And now I want her out of your show.

436
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just don't let any officials of the British

437
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:21,360
Speaker 3: Foreign Office near Anderson.

438
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,400
Speaker 2: Actually that's a rule.

439
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was gonna say that's that's never gonna Yeah, yeah.

440
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 3: So, Rita told author David Vine in an interview for

441
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 3: his book Island of Shame. Life there paid little money,

442
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,159
Speaker 3: a very little, but it was the sweet life. And

443
00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,639
Speaker 3: again that's basically everybody who lived there is what they

444
00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:41,920
Speaker 3: say is like, yeah, you know, we worked hard and

445
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 3: we didn't have money, but like you didn't need much money,

446
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 3: and we were all pretty It was pretty rad. We

447
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:52,520
Speaker 3: were pretty happy on Jagos. One of the few downsides

448
00:23:52,560 --> 00:23:54,280
Speaker 3: of life there, as I've noted, was a lack of

449
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:58,360
Speaker 3: good access to hospitals. The only regular passage to Meridius

450
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,959
Speaker 3: was a quarterly steamship. In nineteen sixty seven, Rita's three

451
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 3: year old girl, Noelli, had her foot run over by

452
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,359
Speaker 3: a mule drawn cart. The nurse and their tiny local

453
00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,440
Speaker 3: clinic told Rita Noelli needed an operation at a real

454
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,720
Speaker 3: hospital in Mauritius. They still had to wait two months

455
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 3: for this. By the time the boat arrived, Neelli was

456
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,800
Speaker 3: sick with gangreen Still, Rita piled her whole family onto

457
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,959
Speaker 3: her boat, her husband Julian, and their five uninjured children,

458
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,760
Speaker 3: planning to spend three months recovering with Noelli in the

459
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 3: capital of Meridius, Port Louis. Tragically Noelli's gangreen was too

460
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 3: severe for the medicine at the time. She died a

461
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 3: month after they arrived in Meritius. Rita and her family

462
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:40,160
Speaker 3: waited and grieved for two months until they could book

463
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 3: passage to return home, because again the steamships were quarterly

464
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:47,680
Speaker 3: wine rights. With the departure date approaching, Rita walked to

465
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 3: the office of the steamship company to arrange for the

466
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:53,880
Speaker 3: family's return. There, the steamship company representative told her your

467
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 3: island has been sold. You will never go there again,

468
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 3: leaving Rita to return to her family speechless and in tears.

469
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 3: When Julian finally heard his wife's news, he collapsed backwards,

470
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,919
Speaker 3: arms splayed wide, unable to utter a word. Prevented from

471
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,760
Speaker 3: returning home, Rita, Julian, and their five surviving children found

472
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:15,399
Speaker 3: themselves in a foreign land, separated from their home, their land,

473
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:18,359
Speaker 3: their animals, their possessions, their jobs, their community, and the

474
00:25:18,440 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 3: graves of their ancestors. The Bancos had been as Chegosians

475
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 3: came to say, de racine, deracinated, uprooted, torn from their

476
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 3: natal lands. They have a couple words that they have

477
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 3: created in their language for the specific trauma of being

478
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:41,080
Speaker 3: raised in paradise and being ripped away from it and

479
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 3: not really told even why it's happening. De Rassine Now

480
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,240
Speaker 3: to hear, Rita tells it being deracinated is what killed

481
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,399
Speaker 3: her husband shortly after their daughter died, and they get

482
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 3: this news, Julian suffers a stroke, his body shuts down

483
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,200
Speaker 3: on him, and he dies five years later. Rita gives

484
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:03,720
Speaker 3: his cause of death as sogrin, which is another Chegosian

485
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 3: word and it means deep sadness. It is specifically the

486
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 3: kind of sadness of being separated from Chagos. So he

487
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 3: dies of sogrin, and a lot of her family, her

488
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,639
Speaker 3: kids are going to follow in a similar path. Nobody

489
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 3: from the British government ever explains to reader why this

490
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 3: is happening. No paper trail exists. She is just stuck

491
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 3: one day in a foreign land with nothing as her

492
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,679
Speaker 3: family dies around her. The next to perish was her

493
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 3: son Alex, who passed at thirty eight after years of

494
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,280
Speaker 3: addiction to drugs and alcohol. Their son Eddie overdosed on

495
00:26:36,359 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 3: heroin at thirty six. Their little boy Raynald died at

496
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 3: age eleven while begging for money. For reasons the family

497
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 3: will never know the way. She describes it as like

498
00:26:45,000 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 3: he just his body just gave up. He was too sad.

499
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 2: Oh god, yeah, that's like that so wild to just

500
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 2: be like, yeah, your island, you can't go home.

501
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're out one sold. No one will ever explain

502
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 3: this to you. Buy Yeah, yeah, I will just say.

503
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 2: In traditional Western literature, the person that rips you from

504
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,199
Speaker 2: paradise is typically Satan, just.

505
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 3: Right, right, the devil. Yes, And I do like that

506
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 3: term sagrin is so evocative, right, This like sadness that

507
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 3: literally kills you because you have been separated from the

508
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 3: place where your heart is. Rita's story is one small

509
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 3: example of the horror enacted by the British to serve

510
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 3: the needs of the US Empire. She told David Vine,

511
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 3: my life has been buried. It is as if I

512
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 3: was pulled from my paradise to put me in hell.

513
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 3: Everything here you need to buy, I don't have the

514
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,439
Speaker 3: means to buy them. My children go without eating. How

515
00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 3: am I supposed to bear this life? Part of the

516
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 3: horror here is that these people, I mean they worked

517
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 3: for a company, so technically they existed within capitalism, but

518
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 3: on a day to day basis, money was like a

519
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 3: thing you occasionally used for stuff you didn't need. You

520
00:27:56,200 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 3: got everything you needed from the island, right, But now

521
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 3: they have to pay rent, they have to buy food,

522
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:05,879
Speaker 3: they have to light work and factories and shit. It's this,

523
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 3: it's this totally alien existence for them and it's horrible.

524
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and it's also like if you have to

525
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 2: live in capitalism, like, yes, starting when you have a

526
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 2: family is right, Yeah.

527
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 3: You've got your husband's strokes out and you have five

528
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,440
Speaker 3: kids to support. Like a fucking nightmare.

529
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:27,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

530
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 3: The year after Rita's lifelong Nightmare began nineteen sixty eight,

531
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,120
Speaker 3: Michael Stewart, the Baron Stewart a Fulham, a British Labor

532
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 3: Party politician and Foreign secretary, wrote in yet another secret document,

533
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,959
Speaker 3: and I'm reading from Mark Curtis's Web of deceit. Here,

534
00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 3: by any structure of the English language, there was an

535
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 3: indigenous population and the Foreign Office knew it. A Foreign

536
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,200
Speaker 3: Office minute from nineteen sixty five recognizes policy as to

537
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 3: certify the Chagosians, more or less fraudulently as belonging somewhere else.

538
00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 3: Another Whitehall document was entitled Maintaining the Fiction. The Foreign

539
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 3: Office Legal adviser wrote in January nineteen seventy that it

540
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 3: was important to maintain the fiction that the inhabitants of

541
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:09,680
Speaker 3: Chagos are not a permanent or semi permanent population. So

542
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 3: like you have this labor politician being like, well, we

543
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 3: knew there was a foreign population there, and you guys

544
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 3: just lied, and the Foreign Office in their own internal

545
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 3: policies being like weeah, our policy was to lie about it.

546
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 3: That's what we decided to do, was pretend it was

547
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,080
Speaker 3: the easiest thing to do.

548
00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 2: This is like, at least al Capone didn't denys or

549
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 2: denovate as taxes.

550
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:33,800
Speaker 3: Weh al Capone was a nearly this evil And you

551
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 3: know who else is it nearly this evil? Andrew the

552
00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 3: sponsors of this politics, I can guarantee you none of

553
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 3: them are responsible for Chagos. We are not presently sponsored

554
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 3: by the British Foreign Office or the Department of.

555
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 2: Defense, So you know astorisk guarantee not guaranteed.

556
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, if we ever do an ad for call of duty,

557
00:29:54,720 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 3: this will no longer be entirely accurate. Anyway, and we're back.

558
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 3: There's also a lot of movies we could read ads

559
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,120
Speaker 3: for and then would technically be being paid by the

560
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,800
Speaker 3: Department of defense in some way, so I don't know,

561
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,560
Speaker 3: there's no escaping it. Even with the nightmare of exile,

562
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,680
Speaker 3: Rita's situation might have been vastly improved if she had

563
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 3: been informed that she was now a citizen of the

564
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:27,680
Speaker 3: technically really always had been a citizen of the UK,

565
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,240
Speaker 3: with the attendant rights and potential access to social services

566
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,400
Speaker 3: that that brought with it, she could maybe leave this

567
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:35,840
Speaker 3: place in Meritius that she had been dumped, go to

568
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 3: the UK and gain access to some of the things

569
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 3: that British people can access to help when they have

570
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 3: a bunch of kids that they can't afford in the

571
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 3: culture that they now live in. But Britain's High Commission

572
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,080
Speaker 3: in Mauritius wrote in nineteen seventy one in a meeting

573
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 3: with the Mauritian Prime Minister, naturally I shall not suggest

574
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 3: to him that some of these also have UK nationality.

575
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 3: Always possible that it may spot this point, in which

576
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 3: case presumably we will have to come clean. So the

577
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 3: British High Commission's official statement was, if they ask us

578
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 3: are we are we British, we have to say all right, yep,

579
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 3: you guys are. But hopefully they won't find out I.

580
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 2: There's a part of me that's like, why not just

581
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 2: lie again? If you're going to be this evil, it's.

582
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 3: Because there's this weird thing they have to believe most

583
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,960
Speaker 3: of us do in this country and in the UK,

584
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 3: have to believe that the laws means something. Right, Yes,

585
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 3: you can ignore them and often will, but if somebody

586
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:37,880
Speaker 3: catches you on it, you have to be like, well,

587
00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 3: all right, you know, Like it's like cops doing illegal

588
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 3: search and seizures. They do it a lot on people

589
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 3: who you know, are not informed, don't know enough access

590
00:31:45,920 --> 00:31:48,719
Speaker 3: to the law to like properly protest it. But as

591
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 3: soon as you're called like this was an illegal search

592
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 3: and season, they're like, all right, well we got to

593
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 3: give this one up, right, we break the law on

594
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 3: your caddis are right? You have enough money to know

595
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 3: what your rights are? Oki Doki Right, you know.

596
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:01,440
Speaker 2: I guess that's what it is is it creates a

597
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 2: soft social stratification. Yeah, Like access that information is not free, right.

598
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 3: Right, It's not. It requires having the benefit of a

599
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,959
Speaker 3: certain kind of education, access to certain kinds of libraries, barristers,

600
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 3: all that kind of shit. Right, cool, So Rita and

601
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 3: her family are just part of the first wave of exiles.

602
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:23,160
Speaker 3: The bulk of the Chegosian population could not be induced

603
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 3: to leave on temporary trips where they could be surprise exiled,

604
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:29,720
Speaker 3: because again, it's pretty nice there and most people don't

605
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 3: really It's the kind of place other people go on

606
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:37,400
Speaker 3: vacation you don't always want to leave. So the British

607
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 3: authorities started choking them off by cutting they would just

608
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,640
Speaker 3: they made it basically illegal to send medicine or like

609
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 3: other supplies to the islands. Right they stopped taking the

610
00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 3: things that, like the islanders had been exporting successfully to

611
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 3: the rest of the world. They're just like, we are

612
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 3: denying you the planet with our navy in the hopes

613
00:32:57,480 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 3: that it will make your lives untenable. That said, this

614
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 3: still doesn't fully work, because they are capable of keeping

615
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 3: themselves fed by what they grow on the island, right,

616
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 3: Like the access to medicine is important, but like, they

617
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:14,520
Speaker 3: can continue to exist there still. By January of nineteen

618
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 3: seventy one, this had not emptied the islands of their populace,

619
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 3: and the US was starting to get Antsy Admiral Zumwalt

620
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 3: exchanged our friend Elmo exchanged a flurry of memos with

621
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 3: his counterparts across the sea, and was warned by his

622
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 3: own legal advisor, John R. Stevenson, that the eighteen sixty

623
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 3: six US UK Agreement, or that the nineteen sixty six

624
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 3: US UK agreement over Chagos and the UN Charter they

625
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 3: both signed, gave them both a legal responsibility not to

626
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,720
Speaker 3: force people out of their homes without satisfactory arrangement. So

627
00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 3: the treaty that we had signed, we said, if you

628
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 3: have to uproot anyone for us to build this base,

629
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 3: they have to be given money and compensating properly for

630
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:59,239
Speaker 3: their loss. Right now, that's still bad in my mind. Right,

631
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 3: a military shouldn't outweigh the existence of a culture, you know,

632
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 3: but at least that's not. Now you live in this

633
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 3: other country and you have nothing. Goodbye.

634
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:09,239
Speaker 2: You know.

635
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 3: It is better than that. But you know, Zoomwalt and

636
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 3: his colleagues, their concern is not that this is not

637
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,919
Speaker 3: being done. Their concern again is that people might find

638
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 3: out that this is not being done, and so they

639
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 3: really just decide to push the British, like, you need

640
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 3: to empty out Diego Garcia, this most populated island as

641
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:31,080
Speaker 3: fast as possible so we can send in our Ceabs,

642
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,719
Speaker 3: which are the very silly name that we have for

643
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:35,520
Speaker 3: the navy guys who are going to build this base.

644
00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 3: Right on January twenty fourth, nineteen seventy one, the population

645
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:43,400
Speaker 3: of Diego Garcia was ordered into the old manager's office

646
00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:45,360
Speaker 3: for the company that had once run things, and it

647
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 3: was announced to them that their island was closing. People

648
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 3: had a variety of reactions. Some of them said, like,

649
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 3: you're going to house us. Can we live in another

650
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:55,560
Speaker 3: island in Chagos?

651
00:34:55,680 --> 00:34:55,799
Speaker 2: Right?

652
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 3: Can we just like move to one of the other

653
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,439
Speaker 3: islands they're all pretty nice. Others asked if they would

654
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,400
Speaker 3: be given like money at least to start a new

655
00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:07,239
Speaker 3: life elsewhere. Most vine notes were simply stunned. Half a

656
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 3: decade later, in one of the court cases that resulted

657
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 3: from all this, an employee of the plantation company and

658
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 3: the company has been bought out by the British government,

659
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,360
Speaker 3: but they're keeping the employees who had worked on the

660
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,359
Speaker 3: island there to manage things with the natives. And an

661
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,520
Speaker 3: employee of this company a half decade later in court

662
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 3: swears in a court statement that he had told the

663
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 3: laborers quote it was quite probable they would be compensated

664
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,520
Speaker 3: now he says that to give himself an out right,

665
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 3: he was like, yeah, you'll probably get something. The Chagosians

666
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,440
Speaker 3: who were there say, we were promised housing and financial

667
00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,720
Speaker 3: assistance if we left, right. Yeah, I know who I believe.

668
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, but quite probable, quite probable.

669
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 3: We'll give you something. Sure, probably you'll get something for

670
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 3: being forced out of the homes that your your ancestors

671
00:35:52,719 --> 00:35:56,719
Speaker 3: lived and died on. Yeah. Probably. The deportations began in

672
00:35:56,800 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 3: earnest after this point. Julian Derupe writes, the first boat

673
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 3: of human cargo arrived on the Seychelles on the five

674
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,360
Speaker 3: hundred ton cargo ship the Nord Vior, the Boat of Shame,

675
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 3: which is what the Jegosians called it, on Thursday thirtieth

676
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 3: September nineteen seventy one. There were one hundred and forty

677
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 3: six persons in a boat that was legally allowed to

678
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 3: carry twelve cabin passengers. Some bitter experiences followed this evacuation.

679
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 3: When the Nordveayor got to Mahi, four horses which she

680
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,040
Speaker 3: transported were taken care of and sheltered. The human cargo

681
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:31,759
Speaker 3: was deposited on the jetty with all their belongings. Wow,

682
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:37,040
Speaker 3: so they ship these people with an illegal number of

683
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,800
Speaker 3: them on this boat in squalid conditions to another island.

684
00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 3: And then their immediate concern is we got to make

685
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 3: sure these horses are taken care of. We could leave

686
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:46,880
Speaker 3: these people out in the open.

687
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 2: Now.

688
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 3: Eventually they do take them out of the opened and

689
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 3: put them in a woman's prison where they are confined

690
00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 3: to cells and fed on prisoner's food.

691
00:36:56,760 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, that feels about right, I guess Jesus.

692
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 3: Christ feels feels about feels about right for the uh,

693
00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 3: the old British Empire. Yeah, the sclerotic, rotting corpse of

694
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 3: the British Empire, still fucking people over Spirit.

695
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 2: Airlines part of the British.

696
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:19,759
Speaker 3: The British Empire and their Spirit Airlines era. Yeah, so

697
00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 3: pretty bad stuff.

698
00:37:21,719 --> 00:37:21,879
Speaker 2: Now.

699
00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,040
Speaker 3: Some of the some of the people who are being

700
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,040
Speaker 3: deported from Chagos were not natives to Chagos. There were

701
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 3: some like Seyschelois who had been working on Chagos for

702
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,279
Speaker 3: many years. They get to go back to the place

703
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,240
Speaker 3: where they had been born, but they're not given any money,

704
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 3: like their their contract is essentially broken and they're when

705
00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,919
Speaker 3: they get transported back, they're forced to sleep under shop

706
00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:46,719
Speaker 3: mirandas until like someone finally calls their relatives elsewhere in

707
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 3: the country. Right, it's just again this lack utter, lack

708
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 3: of concern for these human beings. Boat trips continue to

709
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 3: take people away from Chagos for the next two years.

710
00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,440
Speaker 3: In all cases, this process was slap fucking Dad for

711
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:02,799
Speaker 3: the simple reason that the US was pressuring the UK

712
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 3: to get all these goddamn people off the island, and

713
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 3: the UK wanted to do it with the minimum amount

714
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,240
Speaker 3: of actual work. On February fourth, a State Department message

715
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 3: warned all relevant personnel to avoid direct participation in the

716
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:20,880
Speaker 3: resettlement of Eloy's people because the basic responsibility is clearly British.

717
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,360
Speaker 3: Hey man, this can't be on us. You know, soldiers

718
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 3: don't do anything. They kick these people off. Leave that

719
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 3: to the English. Right, We got other like, we don't

720
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,239
Speaker 3: want the heat this is going to bring. Right, Well,

721
00:38:32,520 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 3: we paid them for this, Yeah, we paid them in

722
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,360
Speaker 3: nukes for this. Come on now. Of primary concern to

723
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,640
Speaker 3: the US Navy and State Department men overseeing this process,

724
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 3: the reason why they are so worried about American soldiers

725
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 3: getting involved in the depopulation of the island is what

726
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 3: was happening at the time, and another part of the

727
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 3: US Empire on an island called Culebra in Puerto Rico. Now,

728
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 3: at the start of the century, the US Navy had

729
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 3: dissolved to the main town on Koulebra. We had just

730
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 3: told this town, you don't get to be a town anymore.

731
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 3: We got to have a marine base here. In nineteen

732
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,400
Speaker 3: forty one, President Roosevelt had claimed exclusive rights to the

733
00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 3: airspace above Kulebra. In the nineteen fifties, the Navy tried

734
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 3: to evict all the remaining residents of Koulebra to expand

735
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,640
Speaker 3: the marine base. We just decided, like nobody gets delivery

736
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 3: or anymore, we gotta fill this with marines, you know,

737
00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,240
Speaker 3: like we don't have enough places for our marines. Southern

738
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 3: California is not big enough for all the marines we need.

739
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:38,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I guess our mo throughout Yeah, the biggest,

740
00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 2: most of the twenty and twenty first century.

741
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, you guys have lived here for forever. I mean,

742
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,320
Speaker 3: you know that's unfortunate. But you'll understand once we explain this.

743
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 3: We need another place to put marines, you know. Yeah,

744
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 3: we gotta send these boys places to die. You know,

745
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 3: you can't do that from I don't know Michigan. Right,

746
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 3: that's not gonna make any sense. So the Navy tries

747
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 3: tries to evict everyone from Culebra to expand their marine base,

748
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,960
Speaker 3: but the Puerto Rican government refuses. This ultimately sparks a

749
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:12,080
Speaker 3: conflict between the Puerto Rican people and the Department of Defense.

750
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,399
Speaker 3: In nineteen sixty nine, as part of this, Puerto Rican

751
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 3: people you know on Culebra, and I think people from

752
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 3: off Culebra who want to help the islands not get

753
00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 3: cleansed right start basically striking right and refusing to leave,

754
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 3: and so to try to get them out, in nineteen

755
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 3: sixty nine, the US Navy starts firing missiles at the island.

756
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,880
Speaker 3: They do two in that year, nineteen sixty nine, they

757
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 3: do two hundred and twenty eight days of live fire

758
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:43,879
Speaker 3: missile exercises. They're just they're bombing Puerto Rico to make

759
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 3: people leave this far.

760
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 2: I didn't know that happened.

761
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 3: Neither die We should easy. It's nuts. It's really fucked

762
00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:56,520
Speaker 3: up that we that like this is not more. I'm

763
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 3: sure Puerto Ricans are very well informed about it, but

764
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,399
Speaker 3: I was not going up in Texas. I could say

765
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:07,320
Speaker 3: that much misfires injured people and damaged property. The island

766
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,720
Speaker 3: was poisoned because I don't know if you know this, Andrew,

767
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 3: missiles are not good for like water, Like if you

768
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 3: if you drop, if you blow a bunch of missiles

769
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,800
Speaker 3: up and they land in the water supply, it's not great.

770
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

771
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:21,440
Speaker 3: Next, I'm going to quote from an article in Swarthmore

772
00:41:21,520 --> 00:41:25,880
Speaker 3: University's Global Nonviolent Action Database. Citizens on the island responded

773
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,120
Speaker 3: to the Navy's second attempt at a total eviction by

774
00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 3: demonstrating on the island's beaches In nineteen seventy, after a

775
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 3: court reaffirmed the Navy's right to use Koolebra as a

776
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 3: military site, residents marched to a local command post in

777
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 3: a student ultimatum, one that they would also use direct

778
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,280
Speaker 3: action to force removal of the US Navy. The preyto

779
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,839
Speaker 3: Rican Senate also passed a resolution in which they asked

780
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 3: President Nixon to reevaluate the Navy's presence on the island.

781
00:41:48,239 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 3: This increased national attention on the issue and brought Congressional

782
00:41:51,239 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 3: support that would prove helpful later in the campaign. Congressional

783
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,480
Speaker 3: hearings and investigations continued throughout the summer to determine what

784
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:00,600
Speaker 3: could be done about the issue throughout the summer. Demonstrators

785
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 3: protested at a naval base in San Juan. In June

786
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 3: nineteen seventy twenty Kulebrians owned use their bodies as a

787
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 3: human chain to block shipped to shore missile fire. This

788
00:42:09,760 --> 00:42:12,360
Speaker 3: was followed by a three day long encampment organized by

789
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 3: the Puerto Rican Independence Party, which attracted six hundred people.

790
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,880
Speaker 3: Pip led by Reuben Barrios. Martinez pledged to follow a

791
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:23,640
Speaker 3: course of pacific militancy. The Navy responded by offering thirty

792
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 3: five jobs, hoping to placate the people of Culebra. Instead,

793
00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 3: residents picketed at a proposed demolition site. One of the

794
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 3: three boats used to pick at the site had to

795
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 3: be towed away by force at the last moment to

796
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 3: avoid human casualties. Okay, we know you guys are angry

797
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 3: at us bombing your island. What if we give you

798
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 3: thirty five jobs? What if we opened the equivalent of

799
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,439
Speaker 3: like a small Walmart worth of employment for you? Would

800
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:57,200
Speaker 3: that make you not angry about all the missiles? Amazing stuff?

801
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,720
Speaker 2: You know what, I guess the audacity of this shouldn't

802
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 2: be so by the no, Yeah, what is.

803
00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 3: Maybe not surprising? What is good. Is that like, because

804
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 3: Puerto Ricans we have owned Puerto Rico for a while,

805
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 3: and they were, in the eyes of other Americans seen

806
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 3: as kind of Americans. At least they get they win, right,

807
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,200
Speaker 3: they get sympathy. People in Congress get angry on their behalf.

808
00:43:20,239 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 3: People on the mainland get angry on their behalf because

809
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:27,759
Speaker 3: even as irrational as Americans could be about like their

810
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:31,480
Speaker 3: military and patriotism, when you hear that your navy is

811
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:35,160
Speaker 3: firing two hundred and twenty eight days worth of missiles

812
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 3: at an island with no weapons, Yeah, it's really hard

813
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:41,280
Speaker 3: to seem like the good guys.

814
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:49,000
Speaker 2: I mean, we never really are. Turns out, yeah, for decades.

815
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it's very every now and then it'll be

816
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 3: like an aircraft carrier showed up to help it after

817
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 3: a tsunami. But that's not most of what aircraft carriers do,

818
00:43:58,960 --> 00:44:02,640
Speaker 3: it turns out. Ultimately, Nixon ordered the Navy to leave

819
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 3: the island in nineteen seventy four. This is a rare

820
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 3: case where Dick Nixon is like, yeah, this is fucked up. Like,

821
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:12,800
Speaker 3: you know, look, I've said some things about Puerto Ricans

822
00:44:12,880 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 3: that like you don't want to hear you will hear it,

823
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 3: but you don't want to. But like, even I know,

824
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 3: bad as he was, there is like a well we haven't.

825
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 2: Gotten that much. You know.

826
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 3: The thing about Dick Nixon, he's such a weird guy

827
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:32,200
Speaker 3: because he's like simultaneously in some ways our most evil

828
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,160
Speaker 3: president but also was more able than a lot of

829
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 3: our at least seemingly less evil presidents. He was a

830
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:40,640
Speaker 3: lot more able to be like, well, we got to

831
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,279
Speaker 3: stop this, right, like, yeah, we got we gotta have

832
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:44,440
Speaker 3: an EPA obviously.

833
00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's he's what people try to say good Republicans

834
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:50,400
Speaker 2: should be.

835
00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:57,439
Speaker 3: God, Yeah, that is the reality of the situation. Yeah,

836
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:00,360
Speaker 3: like you know, yeah, I mean we're gonna back a

837
00:45:00,440 --> 00:45:02,360
Speaker 3: couple of genocides to do it, but we should have

838
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:05,120
Speaker 3: people talking to the Chinese, right, you know, there's too

839
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:06,960
Speaker 3: much risk of a new clear war for us not

840
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 3: to talk to now.

841
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:12,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's like kind of pragmatic in a way that's like, yeah.

842
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:14,600
Speaker 3: You'll do the right thing, even if you have to

843
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:18,160
Speaker 3: do a couple of unnecessary genocides, or at least to

844
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:18,480
Speaker 3: do it.

845
00:45:18,640 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 2: He's he's he was evil but not delusional. And now

846
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:25,720
Speaker 2: the yeah or delusional.

847
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:26,719
Speaker 3: And I don't know, I don't know how to.

848
00:45:27,280 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 2: I don't know.

849
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 3: I really he's hard to quantify Richard Nixon.

850
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 2: He feels like he was delusional about humble but not

851
00:45:35,280 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 2: about concrete facts.

852
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I don't. We will eventually. I've already talked

853
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 3: to the maybe I'm dropping this now, I've talked to

854
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 3: the dollup guys. We're going to do our episodes on him.

855
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 3: At some point, got delayed by what happened with my dad.

856
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 3: He is like a baffling man to try to pin

857
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 3: down Richard Nixon, like one of our most confusing leaders.

858
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:03,400
Speaker 2: It has only gotten simpler since then to see the evil.

859
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:08,840
Speaker 3: I guess, yeah, there's at least there's that. So eventually,

860
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 3: thankfully the Puerto Ricans and Kulebra win their fight here.

861
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 3: But again, this is nineteen seventy one, so that's like

862
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,760
Speaker 3: the height of the protest campaign against the Navy trying

863
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 3: to clear Culebra of human beings. So the Navy guys

864
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,839
Speaker 3: who are getting this base ready and Diego Garcia are

865
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 3: looking at this ongoing this hitting Everyone in the Navy

866
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 3: who is like at a high position is dealing with

867
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 3: the fallout from Kulebra. Right, it's this horrible headache, and

868
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 3: so they're like, look, guys, we cannot have that happen here.

869
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,400
Speaker 3: Like you have to get these people out and do

870
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:40,719
Speaker 3: it fucking quietly.

871
00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 2: Right.

872
00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 3: So, once they start construction and cbe's start encountering angry

873
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 3: locals who did not want to leave, these sailors started

874
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,840
Speaker 3: complaining one of them, right, And some of these sailors

875
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:54,080
Speaker 3: are actually sympathetic to these guys. One rights to his

876
00:46:54,160 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 3: commander of meeting a fine old man who's been there

877
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:59,799
Speaker 3: fifty years and is like, this guy's really pissed at

878
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 3: what we're doing, and like kind of seems like we're

879
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:06,919
Speaker 3: fucking him over. You know, there's a widespread feeling among

880
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:10,040
Speaker 3: the CBS that quote the UK haven't been completely above

881
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:12,400
Speaker 3: board on this, right. They did not tell us we

882
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,800
Speaker 3: were going to be doing an ethnic cleansing, and some

883
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 3: of us feel ways about it. Actually, you know, he

884
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:22,279
Speaker 3: warned that Diego Garcia could be another Kulebra. One of

885
00:47:22,320 --> 00:47:25,840
Speaker 3: the officers responsible for all this was Captain E. L. Cochrane,

886
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,440
Speaker 3: who knowed that this was a potential trouble area that

887
00:47:28,480 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 3: could be exploited by our opponents. Quote. A newsman so

888
00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 3: disposed could pose questions that would result in a very

889
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:38,640
Speaker 3: damaging report that long time inhabitants of Diego, Garcia are

890
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 3: being torn away from their family homes because of the

891
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 3: construction of a sinister US base. And he writes sinister

892
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 3: as like a oh, these silly newsmen describing us as evil.

893
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:53,279
Speaker 3: But like, bro, this is very sinister. This is one

894
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 3: of the most sinister things I've ever read about. Can

895
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:56,480
Speaker 3: you not see that?

896
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 2: Really? I that that is I think the thing that

897
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 2: modern like I guess like TV gave to these people

898
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 2: is thinking they could just hang a lantern on it

899
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:12,839
Speaker 2: and yeah, it it insulates them from reality. It's like, yeah,

900
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 2: it is citist or you dub fuck fuck you.

901
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's very sinister. That is the word.

902
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,239
Speaker 3: So ultimately, this guy in his superiors conclude that the

903
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 3: benefits of an air base in Chagos are so great

904
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,200
Speaker 3: that it's worth the risk. But quote, the United States

905
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 3: should adopt district let the British do it policy. That's

906
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 3: what Navy officers, right, The United States should adopt district

907
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 3: let the British do it policy. You know, part of

908
00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:41,720
Speaker 3: World War Two, we did that and that worked out. Okay,

909
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:42,239
Speaker 3: you know.

910
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 2: This is just cowardice. I guess.

911
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:53,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a mix of cowardice, greed, and sloth. Right,

912
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,879
Speaker 3: it's and for like, for us, I don't know, it's

913
00:48:56,920 --> 00:48:58,680
Speaker 3: I don't know if it's our least fine hour, but

914
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:00,759
Speaker 3: it's up there in terms of the history. It's like,

915
00:49:00,920 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 3: it's not it's not our finest hour. And I would

916
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 3: say for the British, this is the opposite of the

917
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 3: Battle of Britain that was legitimately a stirring moment of heroism,

918
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:13,080
Speaker 3: and this is like, this is the rubber band effect

919
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 3: of the Battle of Britain, Right, this is your least

920
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 3: fine hour.

921
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,200
Speaker 2: I love how this is sort of like tattling to

922
00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:23,200
Speaker 2: mom about how about whose turn it is to do

923
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 2: the ethnic cleansing chores?

924
00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:28,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it's like it is it's objectively or worse

925
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:32,040
Speaker 3: obviously when they were like literally doing ethnic cleansings with

926
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 3: their own troops out in the field. But this is

927
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,520
Speaker 3: so like so much like you're not even willing to

928
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:41,200
Speaker 3: say what you're doing, like you're so scared of the newspapers.

929
00:49:41,320 --> 00:49:45,600
Speaker 2: You're aucratic and cower and sniffling. I guess sniffling is

930
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:47,200
Speaker 2: high on the list of what this is.

931
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's sniveling. Right, you don't even have

932
00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:53,879
Speaker 3: like the courage to go to Afghanistan and get shot

933
00:49:53,960 --> 00:49:57,279
Speaker 3: by its jazail, right, like you're just hiding under paperwork

934
00:49:57,320 --> 00:49:59,680
Speaker 3: as you do a genocide. And by the way, you

935
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,520
Speaker 3: don't actually have to. Again, I don't know if this

936
00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 3: would be internationally classified as one, but I think you

937
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:06,719
Speaker 3: could make a case for it. You don't have to

938
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 3: kill everybody for it to be a genocide. Forced depopulation

939
00:50:10,920 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 3: and destruction of a culture, destruction of grave sites, destruction

940
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,480
Speaker 3: of cultural facilities, all of that can be lumped into that.

941
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:17,799
Speaker 2: Now.

942
00:50:17,840 --> 00:50:20,400
Speaker 3: I don't know if the ICC certainly hasn't said that

943
00:50:20,520 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 3: this is one, but I think this is at least

944
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 3: like it's at least like the diet mister pib, you know,

945
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 3: compared to the mister PIB of genocide.

946
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 2: You know.

947
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:35,000
Speaker 3: Shlagosians report being threatened that they would be bombed, shot

948
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 3: or starved if they stayed. Aircraft began doing and this

949
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,640
Speaker 3: is us close slow flies over inhabited areas to scare

950
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 3: the locals. We start, we start just dive bombing them

951
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:51,279
Speaker 3: basically to try and freak them out. And by the

952
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,080
Speaker 3: and we also poison their waters with diesel fuel. You know,

953
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:56,400
Speaker 3: I don't know if that was like purposeful or just

954
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 3: an inevitable thing when you have that many boats in

955
00:50:58,560 --> 00:51:01,680
Speaker 3: the area, but either way we do that. Two. In

956
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:05,520
Speaker 3: April nineteen seventy one, the UK issued an immigration ordinance

957
00:51:05,560 --> 00:51:08,040
Speaker 3: that made it a criminal offense for anyone but military

958
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 3: personnel to reside in the Chagos Islands without a permit.

959
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:14,719
Speaker 3: By July, the runway on the new base was operational.

960
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 3: The final people forced from the islands were allowed to

961
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:21,359
Speaker 3: take one small box of possessions and a straw mat.

962
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,160
Speaker 3: All of their animals, including their pets, were to remain

963
00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 3: on the island, as shipping them elsewhere would be too

964
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 3: difficult and complex, so instead a decision was made to

965
00:51:31,760 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 3: make people abandoned. This is in terms of wealth. This

966
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 3: is the majority of the wealth. All these people own

967
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,120
Speaker 3: is their lifestyle, right, that's the way this works. And

968
00:51:39,160 --> 00:51:41,320
Speaker 3: then you know dogs are dogs, right, we all know

969
00:51:41,360 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 3: what dogs are. The Biot Commissioner, Sir Bruce great Batch,

970
00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:50,359
Speaker 3: which is definitely this guy's name, orders So again there's

971
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:52,840
Speaker 3: these former companymen who are now being employed by the

972
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:56,400
Speaker 3: British government, who were still handling direct relations with the

973
00:51:56,520 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 3: natives and the guy who's kind of running this is

974
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 3: named Mulini, right, And Bruce great Batch goes to Mulleni

975
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,160
Speaker 3: and he's like, hey, the Americans, you know, we're not

976
00:52:05,239 --> 00:52:07,839
Speaker 3: letting these people take their dogs. But the Americans don't

977
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 3: want a bunch of wild dogs on the island. So

978
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 3: you're gonna have to kill all those dogs. To murder

979
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,280
Speaker 3: every one of those dogs, bro, these like well trained

980
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 3: fishing dogs that these people had considered part of their

981
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:21,640
Speaker 3: own family. Why don't you just kill all those dogs, buddy,

982
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 3: You take care of that for me, will Yeah, you know,

983
00:52:24,160 --> 00:52:27,600
Speaker 3: I'm sir Bruce great Batch. I'm not gonna do any

984
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:31,080
Speaker 3: dog killing. I'm when your name is, Sir Bruce great Batch,

985
00:52:31,200 --> 00:52:34,719
Speaker 3: it's your genetic legacy to order other men to murder

986
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 3: people's dogs.

987
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,879
Speaker 2: It is nominative determinism.

988
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 3: It happens, It happens, It sure does. I'm going to

989
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:48,160
Speaker 3: quote from the book Island of Shame, very appropriate title.

990
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:52,040
Speaker 3: According to Mullini, he first tried to shoot the dogs

991
00:52:52,120 --> 00:52:55,680
Speaker 3: with the help of seabees armed with sixteen rifles. When

992
00:52:55,719 --> 00:52:59,000
Speaker 3: this failed as an expeditious extermination method, he attempted to

993
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 3: poison the dogs strychnine. This two failed. Sitting in his

994
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:06,000
Speaker 3: home overlooking a secluded beach in the Seychelles, thirty three

995
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 3: years later, Mulini explained to me how he finally used

996
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 3: raw meat to lure the dogs into a sealed copra

997
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 3: drying shed the Colora fire. Locking them in the shed,

998
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 3: he gasped the howling dogs with exhaust piped in from

999
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 3: US military vehicles, setting the coconut husks ablaze. He burnt

1000
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:26,719
Speaker 3: the dog's carcasses in the shed. The Chagosians who are

1001
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 3: still on the island are left to watch and ponder

1002
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:34,280
Speaker 3: their fate. We gas their dogs with our fucking jeeps

1003
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 3: or whatever in front of some of these people. Some

1004
00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 3: of them have been forced out, but not all of them.

1005
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:44,120
Speaker 2: And this is uh putting sinister in scare quotes.

1006
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:48,280
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, and scare crows like, oh oh, we're so sinister.

1007
00:53:48,960 --> 00:53:51,439
Speaker 2: All we do is yeah, murder.

1008
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:56,600
Speaker 3: You're pretty sinister. If I put that, if I, if

1009
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:58,760
Speaker 3: I like again, if I did like a Star Wars

1010
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 3: and I had the Empire gas everybody's dogs on an island,

1011
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:04,920
Speaker 3: people would be like, come on, man, you're making them

1012
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:08,359
Speaker 3: look a little like you've gone to silly territory here, right,

1013
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:12,479
Speaker 3: Like yeah, of course it's all like that great shit.

1014
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:17,840
Speaker 3: You know, who isn't the Galactic Empire from Star Wars

1015
00:54:18,239 --> 00:54:21,320
Speaker 3: unless they're sponsoring our podcast now, in which case, you know,

1016
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:25,239
Speaker 3: we're actually fine with that because star destroyers look pretty cool,

1017
00:54:25,600 --> 00:54:27,720
Speaker 3: cooler than an aircraft career. You know that's my problem

1018
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 3: Andrew with the US Empire, right, Like, why like star

1019
00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:36,879
Speaker 3: destroyers dope as hell aircraft carriers. It's just a big

1020
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 3: air strip on a on a fucking boat, Like come on, man,

1021
00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:41,040
Speaker 3: come on.

1022
00:54:41,520 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 2: If an five could come out, be shot out of

1023
00:54:45,760 --> 00:54:47,480
Speaker 2: the belly of aircraft car.

1024
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,640
Speaker 3: And it made that sound, The tie fighters make I

1025
00:54:50,800 --> 00:54:53,719
Speaker 3: feel so much better about being in an empire, Oh

1026
00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 3: my god. And don't get me started in our stupid

1027
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:00,680
Speaker 3: you ever seen a navy uniform like they look like?

1028
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 3: Give me give me those death Star guys with the

1029
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 3: rad helmets. Any day of the week, I will say

1030
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 3: it was it was a it was fleet week a

1031
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 3: couple of weeks ago.

1032
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 2: I guess at l A.

1033
00:55:11,239 --> 00:55:15,479
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Res, I know that this is like part

1034
00:55:15,520 --> 00:55:17,840
Speaker 4: of whatever and they got to do it, but I

1035
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 4: would just want to say, and I know that a

1036
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:22,760
Speaker 4: lot of the I don't know if they're like made

1037
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:25,160
Speaker 4: to or they just choose to wear their like white

1038
00:55:25,239 --> 00:55:26,319
Speaker 4: little sailor suits and.

1039
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:27,000
Speaker 2: They got to.

1040
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 3: They have no choice in the matter. I have a

1041
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 3: baby family. This is this is there they do. They

1042
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,000
Speaker 3: are not because none of them like them, right.

1043
00:55:34,640 --> 00:55:37,839
Speaker 2: I will just say though I do understand they're they're young,

1044
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:41,080
Speaker 2: mostly men, and their mission on fleet week is it

1045
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 2: be here and get laid. I do think if you

1046
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,040
Speaker 2: if you have sex with the sailor during fleet week,

1047
00:55:46,080 --> 00:55:47,839
Speaker 2: you should go on a list of some kind because

1048
00:55:48,040 --> 00:55:51,640
Speaker 2: that means you met them wearing that uniform that way.

1049
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:57,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, man, they like, yeah, yeah, anyway.

1050
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:58,800
Speaker 2: Something's awry.

1051
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,359
Speaker 3: Come on, I mean like, look, literally, Navy, take take

1052
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:05,840
Speaker 3: the uniforms that the Death Star guys wear and just

1053
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,200
Speaker 3: make that be the Navy uniform are trying it a

1054
00:56:08,239 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 3: little better.

1055
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:10,560
Speaker 1: Were you trying to go to an adverrek?

1056
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 3: Did we?

1057
00:56:12,080 --> 00:56:12,160
Speaker 1: Oh?

1058
00:56:12,280 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 3: Yes, here's ads. We're back. And I just I just

1059
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 3: got a communicate from the the head admiral of the Navy.

1060
00:56:26,520 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 3: I don't know his name, but anyway, he called me

1061
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:30,399
Speaker 3: and he said they're doing it. They're doing the Death

1062
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 3: Star thing. So Navy listeners, you are welcome. The better

1063
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:35,879
Speaker 3: uniforms are coming.

1064
00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:37,120
Speaker 2: It can't be worse.

1065
00:56:37,719 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 3: It can't be worse.

1066
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:39,879
Speaker 2: Quite a lot better.

1067
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm still really sad about the dogs.

1068
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:46,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really bad, Sophie. It's horrible.

1069
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:47,480
Speaker 2: Really.

1070
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:51,160
Speaker 3: They start trying to shoot them, and obviously what I

1071
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,160
Speaker 3: think must have happened the seabees must have been like,

1072
00:56:53,520 --> 00:56:57,279
Speaker 3: I really don't want to shoot anymore ducks, like like

1073
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:01,359
Speaker 3: this might be stuck in my head forever, So let's

1074
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:02,400
Speaker 3: just gas them.

1075
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:06,440
Speaker 1: Doctor Gift. Humans are discussing they did.

1076
00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:10,440
Speaker 3: It is worth saying that like that company man who

1077
00:57:10,560 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 3: is being ordered by Sir great Batch, and those sebs

1078
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:18,520
Speaker 3: literally recreated the exact path that the SS took in

1079
00:57:18,640 --> 00:57:21,479
Speaker 3: Eastern Europe, where they're like, wow, it really fucks people

1080
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:24,160
Speaker 3: up to shoot all of these people. Let's just gas them.

1081
00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:26,479
Speaker 3: We just did that, but with dogs over the course

1082
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 3: of like a week.

1083
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:31,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, but we're the good guys here.

1084
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 3: But we are the good guys here. This is some

1085
00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:39,560
Speaker 3: good guys stuff, a little bit of dog murder. So

1086
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 3: we have an airbase. Who's to say, what's wrong?

1087
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 1: Oh, that's wrong, fucking asshole.

1088
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, So Diego. Garcia gets emptied of its indigenous populace

1089
00:57:52,000 --> 00:57:55,600
Speaker 3: over the year nineteen seventy one, the other inhabited islands

1090
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:58,200
Speaker 3: in Chagos are rid of human habitation over the next

1091
00:57:58,240 --> 00:58:00,440
Speaker 3: two years. I think by seventy three all of the

1092
00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 3: indigenous people are off for reasons of rank and competence. Basically,

1093
00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:06,720
Speaker 3: every time the British authorities would like send a bunch

1094
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 3: of these folks away on boats, they would just like

1095
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,480
Speaker 3: forget that they needed to buy food, or they would

1096
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:13,560
Speaker 3: like forget that well they've got to land somewhere and

1097
00:58:13,640 --> 00:58:16,560
Speaker 3: need someplace to stay. Like they they are so lazy

1098
00:58:16,800 --> 00:58:19,439
Speaker 3: with how they do this shit right. People are. There's

1099
00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:23,120
Speaker 3: several case times where like boatloads of people accidentally starve,

1100
00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:25,520
Speaker 3: like not to death, but like to enough that it's

1101
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,080
Speaker 3: a medical problem because they just forget to make sure

1102
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:31,640
Speaker 3: there's food. But by hooker by crook, the deed is

1103
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:35,440
Speaker 3: eventually done. Over the next years, the bewildered and grieving

1104
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 3: Chegosi and Dias for a built communities in Meridius, the

1105
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,480
Speaker 3: say Shells, and in the UK. It's actually noted that

1106
00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:43,760
Speaker 3: like there's like four thousand or so Chegosian like a

1107
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:45,760
Speaker 3: mix of people who had literally been born there and

1108
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:48,280
Speaker 3: forced out, and obviously their kids, their grandkids. At this point,

1109
00:58:49,120 --> 00:58:51,280
Speaker 3: there's a decent number of them who live in London.

1110
00:58:51,320 --> 00:58:54,800
Speaker 3: I think about four thousand and actually a significant amount

1111
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:57,520
Speaker 3: for whatever reason of like the maintenance and janitorial staff

1112
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 3: at Gatwick Airport are from or descended from Chagos. Many

1113
00:59:01,240 --> 00:59:04,600
Speaker 3: exiles keep small bowls of precious sand from Chagos in

1114
00:59:04,640 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 3: their homes. You can kind of think of this as

1115
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 3: like how a lot of Palestinian families keep like keys

1116
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:11,440
Speaker 3: to their family houses when they got forced out during

1117
00:59:11,440 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 3: the Knack Bow or got forced out later.

1118
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:13,720
Speaker 2: Right.

1119
00:59:13,800 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 3: The Chagosian version is we have these bowls of sand

1120
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:19,360
Speaker 3: from Chagos. From this island is it has been illegal

1121
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:21,400
Speaker 3: for most of the last like sixty years for us

1122
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:25,720
Speaker 3: to return to Most Chigosians, when asked express a desire

1123
00:59:25,840 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 3: to return, or to at least have that option, A

1124
00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:29,920
Speaker 3: lot of them are like, well, I have a life

1125
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:31,800
Speaker 3: in London now, I was born here, but I would

1126
00:59:31,920 --> 00:59:33,000
Speaker 3: like to see the island.

1127
00:59:33,160 --> 00:59:33,320
Speaker 2: Right.

1128
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 3: Nearly all wanted British citizenship or some sort of compensation

1129
00:59:37,400 --> 00:59:40,200
Speaker 3: for what has been done to them. In nineteen seventy two,

1130
00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 3: the first jet landed on the New American runway in Diego, Garcia.

1131
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 3: And you want to guess who was on it, Andrew Oh, no,

1132
00:59:48,280 --> 00:59:52,280
Speaker 3: History's greatest monster. Bob Hope. He deplained there for a

1133
00:59:52,360 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 3: Christmas show for American troops stationed on the Basis Jacos.

1134
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:00,600
Speaker 3: The Chagosians aren't allowed there, but Bob Hope is, Oh God,

1135
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,880
Speaker 3: great stuff. Now, by this point, the war in Vietnam

1136
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:07,480
Speaker 3: was kind of nearing it's in right by the time

1137
01:00:07,520 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 3: they GE's seventy three, which is when you know, we

1138
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:12,720
Speaker 3: finally leave by the time Chago's or the islands are

1139
01:00:12,720 --> 01:00:16,800
Speaker 3: fully depopulated. And it just so happens though that Diego Garcia.

1140
01:00:17,120 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 3: It's due south of the Arabian Peninsula, which is going

1141
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:23,680
Speaker 3: to be close to a significant chunk of the world's

1142
01:00:23,760 --> 01:00:27,040
Speaker 3: oil and the significant chunk of like the next generation

1143
01:00:27,200 --> 01:00:30,600
Speaker 3: of American wars. Right, the strategic value us of this

1144
01:00:30,760 --> 01:00:33,680
Speaker 3: island is only going to get greater in the years

1145
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 3: after we get that air base working, right, like we

1146
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:41,320
Speaker 3: basically we build this base right underneath the Arab Peninsula

1147
01:00:41,720 --> 01:00:43,920
Speaker 3: just as that becomes the center of the conflicts that

1148
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 3: we're getting involved with. So for the DoD there's really

1149
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 3: no chance that they're going to give this place up, right,

1150
01:00:50,560 --> 01:00:53,600
Speaker 3: it's just too good a position, and there's no people there,

1151
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 3: so nobody can be you know, can say that we're

1152
01:00:56,840 --> 01:00:59,200
Speaker 3: being unfair to the locals. There aren't any locals. We

1153
01:00:59,280 --> 01:01:02,720
Speaker 3: made damn share it, right, But the people of Chagos

1154
01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:06,520
Speaker 3: don't take this lying down either. Islanders began organizing right

1155
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:08,440
Speaker 3: away to force both the govern to force you know,

1156
01:01:08,720 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 3: the UK government to give them something because like we

1157
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:14,920
Speaker 3: need food or you know, money or citizenship in the

1158
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:19,040
Speaker 3: immediate term, and hopefully initially securing a right to return.

1159
01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 3: In nineteen seventy five, they petitioned the British High Commission

1160
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 3: in Meridius and told them our ancestors were slaves on

1161
01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:27,920
Speaker 3: those islands, but we know we are the heirs of

1162
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:33,000
Speaker 3: those islands, right. Your ancestors took us from another home,

1163
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:36,200
Speaker 3: put us there, and by sheer, look it turned out

1164
01:01:36,240 --> 01:01:40,240
Speaker 3: to rule. You know, it's not fair to take it back, right.

1165
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:43,360
Speaker 3: We are the only people in the history of slavery

1166
01:01:43,640 --> 01:01:46,280
Speaker 3: who got lucky with where they wound up, and you

1167
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:51,600
Speaker 3: fucked us like that's the attitude, right. The High Commission

1168
01:01:51,680 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 3: told them to take their problems up with the Mauritanian government,

1169
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:57,720
Speaker 3: but this whole Brujaja got the Washington Post interested, and

1170
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:00,760
Speaker 3: for the first time the story entered way Western media

1171
01:02:01,040 --> 01:02:05,080
Speaker 3: described in an editorial accurately as an active mass kidnapping

1172
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:07,680
Speaker 3: and got my issues with the Post in the modern era,

1173
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 3: but that is what it is. Yeah, you kidnapped the

1174
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:17,919
Speaker 3: civilization and stuck him somewhere else, the Post doing the joy. Yeah,

1175
01:02:18,240 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 3: this was really in their golden era.

1176
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:20,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1177
01:02:20,200 --> 01:02:23,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, there were inquiries in Congress and in the Houses

1178
01:02:23,480 --> 01:02:26,439
Speaker 3: of Parliament. An interest would return briefly every few years

1179
01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 3: when Chagosians engaged in a new active protest, including a

1180
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:32,320
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty one hunger strike by the exiled women of

1181
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:35,160
Speaker 3: the islands, but no amount of protest was enough to

1182
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:39,520
Speaker 3: overwhelm military necessity. The Navy used Chagos in nineteen seventy

1183
01:02:39,600 --> 01:02:42,200
Speaker 3: three to fly P three surveillance planes in support of

1184
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:44,840
Speaker 3: Israel during the nineteen seventy three era of Israeli War.

1185
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:47,960
Speaker 3: Gerald Ford secured a huge batch of new funding to

1186
01:02:48,080 --> 01:02:50,760
Speaker 3: expand the base. When Congress made him promise that this

1187
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:54,120
Speaker 3: was essential to the national interest, Ford told them the

1188
01:02:54,240 --> 01:02:57,080
Speaker 3: oil ship from the Persian Gulf area is essential to

1189
01:02:57,120 --> 01:03:00,640
Speaker 3: the economic well being of modern industrial societies. It is

1190
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:04,240
Speaker 3: essential that the United States maintain and periodically demonstrate a

1191
01:03:04,280 --> 01:03:09,200
Speaker 3: capability to operate military forces in the Indian Ocean. During

1192
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:12,400
Speaker 3: the House Committee hearings that followed, State Department Representative George

1193
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:14,520
Speaker 3: Vest was asked if there were any was any question

1194
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:17,479
Speaker 3: about the territory being open to our use. No. Vest

1195
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:21,280
Speaker 3: told them it is open sea and uninhabited, which was

1196
01:03:21,440 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 3: true at that point, But he's kind of leaving out

1197
01:03:23,880 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 3: an important part of the story.

1198
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:28,640
Speaker 2: And how it became that way. No one can ever know.

1199
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 3: M impossible to say, how impossible to say, how is

1200
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:37,360
Speaker 3: these cbs are like waking up with nightmares of shooting

1201
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:41,160
Speaker 3: dogs boats full of so one of the things we

1202
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:43,480
Speaker 3: do in Chagos we do this to this day. This

1203
01:03:43,640 --> 01:03:45,840
Speaker 3: is still there right now. Is we have these huge,

1204
01:03:46,040 --> 01:03:50,320
Speaker 3: massive boats that are filled with tanks and like armored

1205
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:52,800
Speaker 3: vehicles hum v's, all sorts of like all of the

1206
01:03:52,880 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 3: materiel that the US needs to fill with ground forces

1207
01:03:56,600 --> 01:03:59,080
Speaker 3: to have a war, right, And we have boats where

1208
01:03:59,120 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 3: these things are special prepared and ready so that we

1209
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:05,840
Speaker 3: can drive that boat anywhere nearby and have all of

1210
01:04:06,000 --> 01:04:08,920
Speaker 3: them the gear that an army needs, and like we

1211
01:04:09,040 --> 01:04:12,320
Speaker 3: ship in the troops kind of separately, right, and one

1212
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:14,240
Speaker 3: of those boats or at least a couple of them

1213
01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 3: are always based in Chagos, off the coast of Diego Garcia.

1214
01:04:18,240 --> 01:04:21,920
Speaker 3: When desert storm kicks off, we send those Those are

1215
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:25,240
Speaker 3: the first tanks that we get to the Persian Gulf

1216
01:04:25,560 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 3: come from Chagos, right And in fact they get there

1217
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:30,360
Speaker 3: like a month before any of the other material that

1218
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,360
Speaker 3: gets shipped over because it's just so well positioned. And

1219
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:36,680
Speaker 3: again to thinkers in the DoD that's one more reason,

1220
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:39,000
Speaker 3: like we can never give this up, right, it's the

1221
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:42,640
Speaker 3: best way we have to get an army rapidly to

1222
01:04:42,720 --> 01:04:45,120
Speaker 3: this area. That is the future of our wars, right,

1223
01:04:46,320 --> 01:04:49,320
Speaker 3: you know, again and again, Diego Garcia proved itself to

1224
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:54,160
Speaker 3: be among the most important strategic outposts in the DODS profile. Likewise,

1225
01:04:54,240 --> 01:04:57,400
Speaker 3: the UK is going to spend the nineteen nineties pretending

1226
01:04:57,520 --> 01:05:02,200
Speaker 3: everything is copasetic. In Chagos eighteen ninety, Margaret Thatcher promised

1227
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:04,880
Speaker 3: the House of Commons that the Chegosians who were protesting

1228
01:05:04,960 --> 01:05:08,720
Speaker 3: were just quote former plantation workers. She claimed their families

1229
01:05:08,760 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 3: were resettled in Meridius and given considerable financial assistance, which

1230
01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:15,840
Speaker 3: was just a lie. They had after nineteen eighty one

1231
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 3: been given a little bit of money when they did

1232
01:05:17,720 --> 01:05:20,520
Speaker 3: that hunger strike, but it was not much, it was

1233
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:24,560
Speaker 3: not considerable, like as usual, you know, the Iron Lady

1234
01:05:24,680 --> 01:05:27,520
Speaker 3: was full of shit, and endless series of court cases

1235
01:05:27,560 --> 01:05:30,919
Speaker 3: eventually forced the UK to extend citizenship to at least

1236
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 3: some of the Chigosians, and minimal payments were authorized to

1237
01:05:34,320 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 3: compensate them for a fraction of their loss. To get

1238
01:05:37,080 --> 01:05:39,960
Speaker 3: these payments, they had to sign a contract many of

1239
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:43,000
Speaker 3: them could not read that gave up any future right

1240
01:05:43,080 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 3: to return to their homes, which is that's that's the

1241
01:05:46,480 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 3: classic classic imperial contract.

1242
01:05:49,000 --> 01:05:55,160
Speaker 2: Shit again, never signed a contract with these people, yeah,

1243
01:05:56,080 --> 01:05:59,120
Speaker 2: with us or with them the actual devil.

1244
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. In the year two thousand, a UK court

1245
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:08,200
Speaker 3: finally declared the biot Immigration Ordinance from nineteen seventy one

1246
01:06:08,280 --> 01:06:10,640
Speaker 3: that made it illegal for anyone but army people to

1247
01:06:10,720 --> 01:06:14,000
Speaker 3: live in the islands to have been unlawful. Alongside this

1248
01:06:14,120 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 3: oh really, yeah, come on, they did, they did in

1249
01:06:17,680 --> 01:06:21,960
Speaker 3: two thousand now and alongside this case. Yeah, it takes

1250
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:24,800
Speaker 3: a while, but they start the millennium off on an

1251
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:30,840
Speaker 3: ethical note, sophy. The British Empire's changed. You know, everything's

1252
01:06:30,880 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 3: going to be good after this point. And this is

1253
01:06:33,360 --> 01:06:35,080
Speaker 3: where I tell you how all of the people got

1254
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:38,240
Speaker 3: to return, and Chagos is a happy island filled with

1255
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:41,920
Speaker 3: happy people living in paradise to this day. No, of

1256
01:06:42,000 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 3: course not. I'm as much of a liar as the British.

1257
01:06:44,240 --> 01:06:47,400
Speaker 3: Alongside this case came a wave of documents produced by

1258
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:49,880
Speaker 3: the discovery process, which is where we get most of

1259
01:06:49,960 --> 01:06:52,360
Speaker 3: those quotes from, in secret internal memos that I've read

1260
01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:54,840
Speaker 3: over the course of these episodes. The good news is

1261
01:06:54,880 --> 01:06:58,000
Speaker 3: that the government at the time accepted this ruling, called

1262
01:06:58,040 --> 01:07:01,480
Speaker 3: their actions against the Chegosian shame and wrong, and rescinded

1263
01:07:01,520 --> 01:07:04,160
Speaker 3: the laws that stopped them from returning home to every island.

1264
01:07:04,280 --> 01:07:07,320
Speaker 3: But of course Diego Garcia still not allowed to go

1265
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:10,280
Speaker 3: back there. US needs it, you know, for war and stuff.

1266
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:15,760
Speaker 3: Give them back, right, we need We're not going to

1267
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:19,120
Speaker 3: give back those world ending weapons now. I will say,

1268
01:07:19,320 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 3: being able to return to the other islands at least

1269
01:07:21,440 --> 01:07:25,600
Speaker 3: would have been something, right. That's better than not, you know.

1270
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:28,600
Speaker 3: But that's not what happens either, because right after this

1271
01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 3: ruling is the year two thousand and one, and that's

1272
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:33,520
Speaker 3: when we get us in nine to eleven and the

1273
01:07:33,680 --> 01:07:36,680
Speaker 3: UK becomes an ally in the global war on terror.

1274
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:41,080
Speaker 3: Given the geographical realities of that conflict, Diego Garcia becomes

1275
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:43,800
Speaker 3: more important than ever. In two thousand and four, the

1276
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:47,240
Speaker 3: UK government issued a new Orders in Council. Now I

1277
01:07:47,320 --> 01:07:50,080
Speaker 3: hadn't heard of these, because honestly, the structure of the

1278
01:07:50,120 --> 01:07:52,880
Speaker 3: British government is confusing and frustrating to me, as it

1279
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:55,720
Speaker 3: is to every British person that I know. But Orders

1280
01:07:55,760 --> 01:07:59,640
Speaker 3: in Council are a legal construct that, like say, Parliament

1281
01:07:59,800 --> 01:08:04,880
Speaker 3: or a court says something is illegal, the executive can

1282
01:08:05,040 --> 01:08:07,840
Speaker 3: issue these and the Queen or at this point the

1283
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:11,400
Speaker 3: King will sign it and say like nope, it's fine.

1284
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 3: That's basically what this is. It's kind of a holdover

1285
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:16,360
Speaker 3: from the day when the King was really an executive

1286
01:08:16,360 --> 01:08:17,840
Speaker 3: for the queen. In this case it's the queen because

1287
01:08:17,920 --> 01:08:21,080
Speaker 3: Queen Elizabeth iiO signs the orders overturning the two thousand

1288
01:08:21,160 --> 01:08:27,360
Speaker 3: court ruling and bans Chegosians from returning home. Thanks Liz, Yeah,

1289
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 3: great stop. A twenty twenty three article for Human Rights

1290
01:08:34,320 --> 01:08:36,960
Speaker 3: Watch summarizes most of the rest of this century's legal

1291
01:08:37,040 --> 01:08:41,000
Speaker 3: battles over Chagos. The UK government has never provided an

1292
01:08:41,040 --> 01:08:43,640
Speaker 3: adequate explanation as to why it was considered viable in

1293
01:08:43,680 --> 01:08:46,280
Speaker 3: two thousand to lift the band On Chagosians from permanently

1294
01:08:46,360 --> 01:08:49,240
Speaker 3: returning home, and yet the UK government considered it necessary

1295
01:08:49,320 --> 01:08:52,879
Speaker 3: to reinstate this ban after four years. Successive UK governments

1296
01:08:52,920 --> 01:08:55,200
Speaker 3: have argued that it is not possible for the Chegosians

1297
01:08:55,240 --> 01:08:57,800
Speaker 3: to return, based on vague assertions of security and cost.

1298
01:08:58,200 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 3: The latter, they suggest, but place an unfair burden on

1299
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:03,280
Speaker 3: the British taxpayer. The US has kept a low profile

1300
01:09:03,520 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 3: and sidestepped its fraternities by claiming it is not responsible

1301
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:09,400
Speaker 3: for the Chegosians. Now, when I say a low profile,

1302
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:12,320
Speaker 3: you know, one thing we did with Chagos. You know,

1303
01:09:12,479 --> 01:09:14,479
Speaker 3: it's a great place to keep boats full of tanks

1304
01:09:14,520 --> 01:09:16,759
Speaker 3: and stuff, right, it's a great place to fly planes,

1305
01:09:16,840 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 3: you know, into the Persian Gulf. It's also a really

1306
01:09:19,320 --> 01:09:22,200
Speaker 3: good place. We realized, like, so we got these guys

1307
01:09:22,280 --> 01:09:24,840
Speaker 3: we've captured, and the CIA has found a way to

1308
01:09:24,960 --> 01:09:27,479
Speaker 3: argue that we get to torture them. But where to

1309
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 3: do it? You know, well you do some of that

1310
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:31,600
Speaker 3: at Guantanamo, but that's pretty far. You know, it's a

1311
01:09:31,640 --> 01:09:33,440
Speaker 3: lot closer Chagos.

1312
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:33,920
Speaker 2: Baby.

1313
01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:36,559
Speaker 3: So it's what this is one of those things where

1314
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:38,960
Speaker 3: like I don't think it's been fully admitted, but it's

1315
01:09:39,520 --> 01:09:42,080
Speaker 3: it's pretty clear that we tortured at least some people

1316
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:47,040
Speaker 3: in Chagos. Sure, just fly them over there. Tortum journalists

1317
01:09:47,080 --> 01:09:49,920
Speaker 3: are specifically not allowed there by law, neither are the

1318
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:53,639
Speaker 3: native Chagosian people. But we can take some dude, pull

1319
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:55,760
Speaker 3: some guy out of a rack and torture in there.

1320
01:09:57,240 --> 01:10:00,439
Speaker 3: It's cool, that's good, good guys.

1321
01:10:00,439 --> 01:10:04,760
Speaker 2: Stuff. Listen, I'll just throw out I guess I'm not

1322
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 2: saying this as a specific plot against the United States

1323
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:13,000
Speaker 2: or UK government, but given that, apparently, as you said,

1324
01:10:13,080 --> 01:10:17,040
Speaker 2: like a big population of Chegosi and diaspora work in

1325
01:10:17,160 --> 01:10:18,120
Speaker 2: airport maintenance.

1326
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:20,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, get jobs typically maybe you.

1327
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:23,360
Speaker 2: Know, join the US military, get a job there and

1328
01:10:24,479 --> 01:10:28,759
Speaker 2: maybe no long colonization, long long clan this one because

1329
01:10:28,920 --> 01:10:30,920
Speaker 2: take this ship back Jesus Christ.

1330
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:36,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, join like, become US citizens, join the navy, and eventually,

1331
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:39,200
Speaker 3: when there's enough of you, seize the air base.

1332
01:10:43,200 --> 01:10:46,920
Speaker 2: Listen, you got it. I'm not saying you gotta do

1333
01:10:47,000 --> 01:10:50,040
Speaker 2: it or that you should do it, but can you

1334
01:10:50,280 --> 01:10:51,679
Speaker 2: pretty scribing to the video.

1335
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:56,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. So, in twenty twelve, the UK government started a

1336
01:10:56,160 --> 01:11:00,679
Speaker 3: policy of review towards Chagos and they commissioned a survey. Basically,

1337
01:11:00,720 --> 01:11:03,160
Speaker 3: they had a survey firm ask all the Chegosians they

1338
01:11:03,160 --> 01:11:04,960
Speaker 3: could find, do you guys actually want to go back?

1339
01:11:05,080 --> 01:11:07,400
Speaker 3: And like the vast majority of them were like, yes,

1340
01:11:07,439 --> 01:11:09,920
Speaker 3: we would like to return to our island paradise where

1341
01:11:09,920 --> 01:11:16,000
Speaker 3: we don't pay rent. That sounds cool. So they also

1342
01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:17,920
Speaker 3: kind of commissioned to survey and found that it would

1343
01:11:17,920 --> 01:11:20,960
Speaker 3: cost it most about five hundred million pounds in order

1344
01:11:21,040 --> 01:11:22,960
Speaker 3: to do this. So, you know, obviously the UK, you know,

1345
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:24,320
Speaker 3: I got a lot of money right now, they're not

1346
01:11:24,400 --> 01:11:27,960
Speaker 3: doing this shit. Right In twenty sixteen, the UK again

1347
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:31,479
Speaker 3: announced it's going to block Chagosians from return, turning claiming

1348
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:35,439
Speaker 3: national security and cost. This has remained its position up

1349
01:11:35,520 --> 01:11:39,479
Speaker 3: to the present day, although negotiations with Meridius restarted in

1350
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:43,439
Speaker 3: the end of twenty twenty two, so this is an

1351
01:11:43,600 --> 01:11:47,519
Speaker 3: ongoing story. Recently, some Chagosians who had been exiled were

1352
01:11:47,560 --> 01:11:50,519
Speaker 3: allowed to return to the islands, not to stay, but

1353
01:11:50,680 --> 01:11:53,000
Speaker 3: to like plant a flag and walk around a while,

1354
01:11:54,240 --> 01:11:59,439
Speaker 3: which is kind of a weird compromise to make, but okay, anyway,

1355
01:11:59,720 --> 01:12:03,559
Speaker 3: I my hope remains that like something will be done

1356
01:12:03,600 --> 01:12:05,160
Speaker 3: to let these people live there. Again.

1357
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:08,400
Speaker 2: You know, I just did a quick little search to

1358
01:12:08,760 --> 01:12:12,679
Speaker 2: point out that, uh, this is five years. It'll cost

1359
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:15,360
Speaker 2: five years of supporting the royal family.

1360
01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:21,720
Speaker 3: Right right exactly. Just sell those sell their palaces and

1361
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 3: use it to send those people back to Chagos. You

1362
01:12:24,200 --> 01:12:27,360
Speaker 3: can put the king up in some public housing or something, right,

1363
01:12:27,439 --> 01:12:28,880
Speaker 3: There's plenty of it in England, you know.

1364
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:33,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, the biggest, the biggest dole queen available.

1365
01:12:33,280 --> 01:12:39,639
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, he's already on the dole you know, why not. Look,

1366
01:12:40,640 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 3: I think that if we're going to have public housing anywhere,

1367
01:12:43,640 --> 01:12:45,519
Speaker 3: it should be fit for a king, and the UK

1368
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:48,760
Speaker 3: has a chance to prove that. Yes, there's there's there's

1369
01:12:48,800 --> 01:12:51,479
Speaker 3: my good socialist attitude on the matter, right.

1370
01:12:52,560 --> 01:12:55,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, council council flats, Charles.

1371
01:12:56,360 --> 01:13:00,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, you put them on a new in the new

1372
01:13:00,240 --> 01:13:08,679
Speaker 3: season is shameless good stuff. Well, Andrew, that's the story

1373
01:13:08,720 --> 01:13:09,360
Speaker 3: of Chagos.

1374
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:12,000
Speaker 2: Oh God, that was fucking grim.

1375
01:13:12,120 --> 01:13:16,120
Speaker 3: Dog that was bleak, right, The dog murder really comes

1376
01:13:16,160 --> 01:13:16,799
Speaker 3: out of nowhere.

1377
01:13:17,240 --> 01:13:20,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. The timing it too, because it does almost seem

1378
01:13:20,320 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 2: like this is gonna be Yeah, I was warning, but

1379
01:13:25,439 --> 01:13:29,559
Speaker 2: I was still Yeah that made it worse. Yeah.

1380
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:32,320
Speaker 3: Reading doing the research on this was like wow, this

1381
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:34,800
Speaker 3: was already pretty bad, but then dogs in his side

1382
01:13:34,880 --> 01:13:38,479
Speaker 3: really came out of left field. Yeah, I haven't heard

1383
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:38,840
Speaker 3: of one of.

1384
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:42,960
Speaker 2: Those bizarrely unnecessary.

1385
01:13:42,720 --> 01:13:47,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, the rest of my life making it up to

1386
01:13:47,360 --> 01:13:47,760
Speaker 1: my dog.

1387
01:13:48,880 --> 01:13:49,080
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1388
01:13:49,600 --> 01:13:52,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know the question of like, because it is

1389
01:13:52,600 --> 01:13:55,240
Speaker 3: one of those things. All empires are evil in their

1390
01:13:55,360 --> 01:13:58,400
Speaker 3: day and eventually become history, right, Like, you know, you

1391
01:13:58,479 --> 01:14:01,360
Speaker 3: could look at bad things that Babylonians did, but as

1392
01:14:01,360 --> 01:14:03,360
Speaker 3: a general rule, when people talk about Babylon, they're not

1393
01:14:03,400 --> 01:14:06,120
Speaker 3: talking about like, oh, how evil, They're talking about like, yeah,

1394
01:14:06,120 --> 01:14:08,439
Speaker 3: this is like an interesting period in history, right, Like

1395
01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:11,439
Speaker 3: generally when we talk about the Roman Empire, who did

1396
01:14:11,560 --> 01:14:14,720
Speaker 3: awful things, we talk about it more like it's like

1397
01:14:14,920 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 3: I don't know, a fictional faction in Star Wars or something,

1398
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:21,080
Speaker 3: because at this point it's just so distant from us, right,

1399
01:14:21,600 --> 01:14:24,160
Speaker 3: And one day, one day that will be true of

1400
01:14:24,240 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 3: the American Empire, once we once we finally collapse to

1401
01:14:27,520 --> 01:14:29,800
Speaker 3: at least the extent that the British have not.

1402
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:35,400
Speaker 2: Necessarily the British we're on one of our paths is yeah,

1403
01:14:35,479 --> 01:14:39,040
Speaker 2: there's not going to be history to be removed from.

1404
01:14:39,920 --> 01:14:45,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, people. My suspicion is that twenty thousand years

1405
01:14:45,040 --> 01:14:48,000
Speaker 3: from now, when aliens colonize this planet, after we've wiped

1406
01:14:48,000 --> 01:14:51,720
Speaker 3: ourselves out, they'll probably cosplay as Americans in British. They'll

1407
01:14:51,760 --> 01:14:54,160
Speaker 3: have like a whole weekend at Chagos where they like

1408
01:14:54,280 --> 01:14:57,840
Speaker 3: cosplay expelling the chickos, trying to.

1409
01:14:58,000 --> 01:14:58,839
Speaker 2: Kill a god.

1410
01:15:00,120 --> 01:15:03,839
Speaker 3: In bioha bio. Oh Yeah, there'll be nudes in bioing

1411
01:15:03,920 --> 01:15:06,479
Speaker 3: left and right, and that will be our legacy. That

1412
01:15:06,560 --> 01:15:09,800
Speaker 3: will be, that will be how humanity lasts on in

1413
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:11,200
Speaker 3: the futures.

1414
01:15:11,400 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 2: Right, film them out right?

1415
01:15:13,080 --> 01:15:16,599
Speaker 3: Actually, Yeah, a bunch of guys dressed as CBS saluting

1416
01:15:16,680 --> 01:15:19,120
Speaker 3: and going nudes and bile a bunch of aliens, you know,

1417
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:22,000
Speaker 3: doing the nudes in bio. It's what we deserve.

1418
01:15:23,000 --> 01:15:26,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we definitely don't deserve dogs.

1419
01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:26,800
Speaker 2: No.

1420
01:15:27,160 --> 01:15:30,240
Speaker 3: Now, hopefully the aliens find a way to resurrect dogs

1421
01:15:30,360 --> 01:15:33,200
Speaker 3: and be better to them than we've been. If you're

1422
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:36,439
Speaker 3: listening to this podcast, aliens, I task you with that

1423
01:15:36,640 --> 01:15:40,519
Speaker 3: moral responsibility, do more to deserve the dogs than we

1424
01:15:40,640 --> 01:15:41,040
Speaker 3: ever did.

1425
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:44,720
Speaker 2: Maybe they're dogs. Maybe maybe it's not aliens, it's just

1426
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:46,320
Speaker 2: the dogs finally get thumbs.

1427
01:15:46,920 --> 01:15:49,160
Speaker 3: I would love it if the dogs in the Vampire

1428
01:15:49,280 --> 01:15:52,240
Speaker 3: Squid become like the new ruling race on Earth and

1429
01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:55,360
Speaker 3: we're like, we have like a fucking Planet of the

1430
01:15:55,400 --> 01:15:56,680
Speaker 3: Apes style collapse.

1431
01:15:57,080 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's about time.

1432
01:15:59,640 --> 01:16:02,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Andrew, do you have any you want to plug?

1433
01:16:03,439 --> 01:16:07,360
Speaker 2: Oh? My podcast is yours's racist? I don't know. We're doing.

1434
01:16:07,439 --> 01:16:08,840
Speaker 2: We're trying to do more fun things. We have a

1435
01:16:08,920 --> 01:16:11,439
Speaker 2: premium show called Yo Can we Live Suboptimal pods dot

1436
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:14,920
Speaker 2: com find out about that stuff, planning other things, trying

1437
01:16:14,920 --> 01:16:17,000
Speaker 2: to get a No, I'm not gonna plug it because

1438
01:16:17,000 --> 01:16:19,479
Speaker 2: it might not happen, so yeah, do that cool?

1439
01:16:20,120 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we'll check that out. And if you're an

1440
01:16:22,960 --> 01:16:26,960
Speaker 3: alien listening to this podcast, uh, you know what you

1441
01:16:27,080 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 3: need to do? Yeah, and resurrectogs and look, guys, you

1442
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:35,240
Speaker 3: don't need to stay away from Oklahoma, Like, I don't

1443
01:16:35,240 --> 01:16:37,559
Speaker 3: know what Oklahoma is doing in ten thousand years after

1444
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:40,160
Speaker 3: human beings have gone extinct but extinct. But it's nothing good,

1445
01:16:40,320 --> 01:16:41,240
Speaker 3: you know, just avoid it.

1446
01:16:44,760 --> 01:16:47,439
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1447
01:16:47,840 --> 01:16:50,439
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1448
01:16:50,520 --> 01:16:54,439
Speaker 1: Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1449
01:16:54,560 --> 01:16:56,880
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.