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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie. I'm welcome to Stuff One Never

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Speaker 1: Told You production of iHeartRadio. Yes, I'm still by myself.

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Speaker 1: Samantha is down for the count with COVID right now.

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Speaker 1: We've got a lot of travel coming up, so trying

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Speaker 1: to get ahead. And I will say for this episode,

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Speaker 1: I am largely quoting one article from tour dot com

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Speaker 1: called from the Exorcist to talk to me. Possession Films

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Speaker 1: teach us to Fear the Wrong Things by j R. Farasteros.

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Speaker 1: I hope I got that someone correct. That my good

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Speaker 1: friend Barry sent to me because he knows I love

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Speaker 1: all things possession, which is funny. I thought it was

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Speaker 1: kind of appropriate because we're wrapping up our religious miniseries Promise.

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Speaker 1: But I'm not religious. I am not religious at all,

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Speaker 1: but I do find myself drawn to these stories and

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Speaker 1: we're really focusing on Western Christian ideas of possession for this.

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Speaker 1: My mom wouldn't let me watch The Exorcist. She wouldn't

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Speaker 1: let me have it in her house because she was

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Speaker 1: so afraid of it. And I have just found myself

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Speaker 1: gravitating to a lot of these stories sometimes and sometimes

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Speaker 1: that gives me pause. I'm like, why am I being

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Speaker 1: drawn to this when I'm not religious, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's you know, I don't believe in ghosts either, but

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Speaker 1: I love ghost movies, so I don't think that's necessarily strange,

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Speaker 1: but it is strange when a lot of Christian law

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Speaker 1: is wrapped up in it. One of my favorite movies

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Speaker 1: now is The Exorcist, And another reason this was on

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Speaker 1: my mind is because William Friedkin has died recently, and

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Speaker 1: I also happened to see the new movie Talk to

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Speaker 1: Me with some friends. There will be minor spoilers for

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Speaker 1: that in here, but not that many. But when I

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Speaker 1: was watching it, it just occurred to me a lot

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Speaker 1: of the stuff in this article, a lot from these

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Speaker 1: quotes we're going to read that I was kind of like, huh,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting who gets possessed in a lot of these movies?

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Speaker 2: What that says.

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Speaker 1: So that being said, let us start with our first quote.

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Speaker 1: Possession films are inescapably religious. What that means changes from

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Speaker 1: generation to generation and from culture to culture. As fans

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Speaker 1: of South Korea as the Whaling can attest, The Exorcist

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Speaker 1: is undeniably the grandfather of possession films as a subgenre.

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Speaker 1: Directed by William Friedkin. The Axiosist was released in nineteen

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Speaker 1: seventy three, and it's based on a book of the

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Speaker 1: same name written by William Peter Blattie that was released

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy one. The Exorcist was a box office juggernaut,

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Speaker 1: becoming the highest grossing movie of all time, a title

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Speaker 1: it held for forty years, and receiving ten Oscar nominations,

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Speaker 1: including Best Picture. Now, if you haven't read about this

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Speaker 1: movie and the reactions people had when it came out,

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Speaker 1: they're quite dramatic. People were getting sick, they were passing

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Speaker 1: out like it was a very intense and for some people,

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Speaker 1: very formative experience. I remember when I first started at

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Speaker 1: this job, I asked my coworkers what was the scariest

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Speaker 1: movie they'd ever seen. I'd say over half of them

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Speaker 1: said The Exorcist. Then I would not describe them as religious.

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Speaker 1: And it's just fascinating to me that it had that

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Speaker 1: much of an impact. And I do think it's important

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Speaker 1: to keep in mind the time when this came out,

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Speaker 1: and who was being possessed, what was the story going

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Speaker 1: on behind it in terms of You've got your single

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Speaker 1: mother who is a career woman and her sweet daughter

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Speaker 1: is the one that gets possessed. So that being said,

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Speaker 1: here's another quote to that point. The Exorcist is a

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Speaker 1: baby boomer horror movie. Through and through the good guys

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Speaker 1: here are the institutional church embodied by the two priests.

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Speaker 1: Both the book and film were released in a time

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Speaker 1: of cultural anxiety, particularly with regard to religion. The FDA

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Speaker 1: authorized the birth control pill a decade later in nineteen sixty,

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Speaker 1: which gave women control over their reprojective system for the

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Speaker 1: first time in history, with predictable outcomes. Not just the

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Speaker 1: free love movement of the sixties, but a massive change

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Speaker 1: in marriage habits and the twenty years after the pill

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Speaker 1: was released, divorce rates more than doubled, are the percentage

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Speaker 1: of adults over eighteen who are married. Plummeted into this milieu,

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Speaker 1: Laddie and Friedkin give us the story of a broken

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Speaker 1: home in which a young girl is tormented by puberty

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Speaker 1: demon and can only find solace when a father comes

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Speaker 1: into the house. As Jude Doyle explains in Dead Blondes

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Speaker 1: and Bad Mothers, Reagan's smooth baby skin erupts and scabs

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Speaker 1: over into weeping, discolored mess. She has outbursts of temper,

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Speaker 1: insults and resists authority figures, makes display of sheer pointless defiance.

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Speaker 1: She talks obsessively about sex, mostly to shock people. She masturbates,

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Speaker 1: she bleeds from her vagina. In other words, Reagan becomes

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Speaker 1: a teenager. Her demon is puberty. And yeah, I would

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Speaker 1: also add she curses a lot. That's kind of a

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Speaker 1: plot point. Is like, oh, she's cursing now. Basically she

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Speaker 1: goes from like your very innocent and heavy quotes young child,

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Speaker 1: too not messy, angry, somewhat violent. I don't know, maybe

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Speaker 1: I'm being too nice, violent, obsessed with sex, yeah, obsessed

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Speaker 1: with shocking people, like saying things to shock people. And

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Speaker 1: she she is like, she's at the right age for

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Speaker 1: puberty for sure, and she does. I thought that was

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Speaker 1: interesting pointing out like the father has to come into

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Speaker 1: the house. I hadn't really thought about that. And I

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Speaker 1: also want to come back and do a follow up

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Speaker 1: episode about nuns now that the nun has become this

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Speaker 1: horror icon and talk about nuns and horror. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's how she's saved. As a father comes into this

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Speaker 1: house with where her biological father is notably accent, she

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Speaker 1: gets the church father is the one that saves her.

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Speaker 1: The quote continues. The Exorcist is family based on a

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Speaker 1: true story and exorcism performed in Saint Louis in nineteen

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Speaker 1: forty nine. The real child was a boy, not a girl,

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Speaker 1: and he came from a two parent home. The framework

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Speaker 1: that resonated so strongly with moviegoers in nineteen seventy three

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Speaker 1: was entirely artifice, a reflection not of the true story,

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Speaker 1: but of white American anxieties. So yeah, I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: interesting that they thought this would hit more with audiences

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Speaker 1: that it was a young girl. And in a lot

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Speaker 1: of the exorcism movies I've seen, it is often a

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Speaker 1: young girl or young woman. I had a friend say

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Speaker 1: to me recently, why is I think he was talking

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Speaker 1: about Monster Squad. It's been a long time since I've

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Speaker 1: seen Monster Squad. But why did the virgin have to

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Speaker 1: be a woman? Why? What? There is a lot of

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Speaker 1: male virgins about? But yeah, I mean, I think that

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Speaker 1: goes back to the ultimate corruption, And a lot of

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Speaker 1: our horror is young, usually white girls who are innocent.

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Speaker 1: But when it happens with men, I feel like it's

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Speaker 1: much more often uses they kill their whole family or

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Speaker 1: something are a very violence, whereas with women it's much

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Speaker 1: more like take their soul. That's just my experience.

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Speaker 2: There's a lot of movies about possession and extorcism.

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Speaker 1: The quote continues. Compare that to James Wand's twenty thirteen

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Speaker 1: The Conjuring, also based on a true story, though set

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Speaker 1: in the early nineteen seventies, the Conjuring embodies the anxieties

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Speaker 1: of millennials rather than their boomer parents. The Warrens contact

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Speaker 1: the Catholic Church to obtain an exorcism, but because the

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Speaker 1: parent family isn't Catholic, approval for the right must come

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Speaker 1: from the Vatican, and the Warrens are convinced the family

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Speaker 1: won't survive long enough for that approval to come. In

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Speaker 1: the reality, the child of another family did die in

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Speaker 1: Bashida's care, and she was tried for murder, with rumors

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Speaker 1: swirling that she had sacrificed the child in an act

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Speaker 1: of witchcraft. The court found her innocent, however, But yeah,

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Speaker 1: that movie is very much my friends and I like

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Speaker 1: to joke again, I enjoy this movie, but we like

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Speaker 1: to joke that it's sort of like superhero Christians like

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Speaker 1: swooping in and it is that the first one is

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Speaker 1: very much about motherhood, and that's sort of how it's

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Speaker 1: like Bashievah's ultimate sin is that she's killing these children,

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Speaker 1: and that's how they save the main woman, the mother

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Speaker 1: of the family, is they remind her of like how

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Speaker 1: important her children are to her, which is not necessarily

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Speaker 1: a bad storyline. It's just worth examining why that is.

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Speaker 1: There's also a lot of messaging about the dangers of

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Speaker 1: not following God. There's a whole warning about you, you know,

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Speaker 1: you need to get your children baptized or else, sort

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Speaker 1: of almost blaming them like this wouldn't have happened if

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Speaker 1: you had followed God. The quote continues ed Warren is

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Speaker 1: successful not because of the church, but despite the Church.

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Speaker 1: What matters in the conjuring is not religious affiliation but belief,

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Speaker 1: a particularly millennial attitude embodied by the phrase spiritual but

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Speaker 1: not religious. Nearly a third Millennials claim no religious affiliation,

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Speaker 1: compared with just thirteen percent of boomers and twenty percent

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Speaker 1: of Gen X, whose defining possession film might be the

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Speaker 1: middle finger to the American dream that is Beetlejuice. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's really fascinating. I think that's interesting to

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Speaker 1: look in how it's shifted with generations, because I would agree.

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Speaker 1: When I read that the whole spiritual but not religious,

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Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, that describes a lot of my friends.

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Speaker 1: I even I remember having a very long conversation with

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Speaker 1: a big group of my friends about this movie that

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Speaker 1: was pretty much about like the Vatican was trying to

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Speaker 1: cover up this lost I don't know part of the Bible,

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Speaker 1: and the lost part of the Bible was just saying,

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Speaker 1: like the religion is, it's not the church, it's not

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Speaker 1: the stone, it's not the building that is spiritual or

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Speaker 1: religious or is going to save you. It's within you.

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Speaker 1: It's being spiritual. And it was funny to me because

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Speaker 1: I can't even remember the day. If I just tried

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Speaker 1: to some of you, I bet some of you do know, right,

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Speaker 1: But it wasn't like a really well known movie, but

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Speaker 1: a lot of us have seen it and had heard

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Speaker 1: that part like yeah, resonated, But the quote continues to

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Speaker 1: generalize a bit. Boomers love church. Gen Z rebelled against church.

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Speaker 1: Millennials look for spirituality outside of church. Gen Z doesn't

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Speaker 1: think about church much at all, which there has been

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Speaker 1: a lot of headlines about that recently. I've I've seen

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Speaker 1: quite a few, and we have been talking about that

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Speaker 1: in our religious mini series. Okay, and then here is

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Speaker 1: final quote. It's perhaps an unavoidable feature of possession films

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Speaker 1: that they teach us to be afraid of the wrong things.

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Speaker 1: Often what's implicitly demonized is equality and dignity, single parents,

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Speaker 1: female sexuality, grief. We didn't even cover how insidious chapter

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Speaker 1: two demonizes transgender people. Possession films, whether intentionally or not,

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Speaker 1: communicate that a world without institutionalized faith is a world

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Speaker 1: where we're at the mercy of evil powers that wish

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Speaker 1: to do as harm. But when the institutions we're told

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Speaker 1: should protect us prey upon us instead, maybe it's time

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Speaker 1: to take our chances. Possession films, even those as groundbreaking

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Speaker 1: as talked to me, are conservative at their heart, But

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Speaker 1: maybe gen Z has the right of it. Perhaps those

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Speaker 1: institutions that have proven themselves so untrustworthy aren't worthy of conservation,

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Speaker 1: which I think relates back to what we've been talking

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Speaker 1: about in this religious mini series, that we have so

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Speaker 1: many examples of harm that these institutions have done, and

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Speaker 1: that's not to say they haven't done good, and that

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Speaker 1: that inherently makes religious people somehow wrong or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Not at all. I think it's just questioning, as always,

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Speaker 1: these messages that are being communicated to us through entertainment

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Speaker 1: that we enjoy, which I enjoy. Like I said, the

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Speaker 1: Exorcist is one of my favorite horror movies of all time.

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Speaker 1: I really love the conjuring it, but it has always

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Speaker 1: struck me who is targeted, who is possessed? Who does

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Speaker 1: the saving? And that sort of message is still there,

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Speaker 1: and I think a lot of us recognize that. I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of us recognize that it's often very

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Speaker 1: conservative in nature of like, oh, why does it have

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Speaker 1: to be a virginal girl who gets possessed and is

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Speaker 1: being tempted that going through puberty aka a demon? I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of us know that. But I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to bring that up because I have been thinking

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Speaker 1: about it recently, and in case anyone else has any

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Speaker 1: other thoughts about it, maybe you remember the name of

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Speaker 1: that movie I was talking about. I'm sure it's gonna

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Speaker 1: count of you right after this is over, or if

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Speaker 1: you have any suggestions, Samantha and I would love them.

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Speaker 1: I'm really sad she wasn't here for this one, but

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Speaker 1: we'll have to come back to it in the meantime.

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Speaker 1: You can email us at Stefida moms Stuff at iHeartMedia

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Speaker 1: dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom

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Speaker 1: Stuff podcast, or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff One.

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Speaker 1: Never Told You we have at public store and a

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Speaker 1: book that you can buy at stuff You Should Read

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Speaker 1: books dot com. Thanks as always to our super producer Christina,

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Speaker 1: our executive producer Maya, and our contributor Joey, and thanks

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Speaker 1: to you for listening. Stephan Never Told You is production

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. For more podcast on my heart Radio, you

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Speaker 1: can check out the heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Ye