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Speaker 1: Pushkin Hey, Lost Hills listeners, it's Dana. I wanted to

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Speaker 1: let you know that you can hear the entire new

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Speaker 1: season of Lost Hill's ad free, along with other great

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Speaker 1: binge listens by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber. Find Pushkin

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Speaker 1: Plus on the Lost Hills Show page in Apple Podcasts

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Speaker 1: or at pushkin dot fm slash Plus. It was the

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, the surf media was just getting started, and

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Speaker 1: Mickey Dora was it's darling.

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Speaker 2: Although the phrase was not extant at the time, I

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Speaker 2: think badass would do it. Yeah, not to be fucked

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Speaker 2: with the reigning king as it were. I mean, he

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Speaker 2: was acknowledged to be the best there was.

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Speaker 1: This is Drew Campion. He started surfing in Malibu in

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Speaker 1: the early sixties. He wrote for Surfer Magazine and later

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Speaker 1: became the editor.

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Speaker 2: So it was a conservative publication. And I had been

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Speaker 2: living over the hill up and from Malibu in the

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Speaker 2: San Fernando Valley and had been introduced to LSD and marijuana.

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Speaker 2: I had tasted enough of each of them to have

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Speaker 2: a bit of a wrinkle in my perception of the world,

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Speaker 2: and so I brought that wrinkle to Surfer. I think

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Speaker 2: and people seemed to respond to it.

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Speaker 1: Right after he got hired, Drew got a plumb assignment

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Speaker 1: to interview Mickey Dora. It was the fall of nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty nine. Mickey had made his reputation as an enigmatic misanthrope,

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Speaker 1: a trickster. If you asked him to zig, he would zag.

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Speaker 1: He was quote the angry young Man of surfing. One

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Speaker 1: of the mags had printed a photo of him flipping

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Speaker 1: off the camera. He was also quote mister Malibu, a

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Speaker 1: singularly good surfer, singularly identified with the most iconic surf

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Speaker 1: spot in the country. Mickey was hard to pin down.

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Speaker 1: He rarely gave interviews. This would be a big get

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Speaker 1: for the magazine.

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Speaker 2: We're on the second floor. We could see down on

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Speaker 2: the parking lot. Here comes Mickey and his van, you know,

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Speaker 2: and somebody alerted everybody, Oh, Mickey's coming. So Mickey comes

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Speaker 2: into the office and looks around, but there's too many

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Speaker 2: people in the office, and he says, well, I don't

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Speaker 2: really want to I really don't want to do an

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Speaker 2: interview here. Can we go somewhere else? And I said, well,

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Speaker 2: I live just down the road in San Clementy. We

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Speaker 2: could meet there.

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Speaker 1: Mickey agreed, Drew told him which exit, and they got

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Speaker 1: in their separate cars. Mickey followed Drew on the freeway

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Speaker 1: until they reached the exit. Drew got off, but Mickey

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Speaker 1: didn't what the fuck?

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Speaker 2: So I went straight ahead. At the bottom of the off,

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Speaker 2: Ram got back on the freeway and basically chased him

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Speaker 2: down the shore and said, Mickey, did you miss the exit?

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Speaker 2: And he said, oh, yeah, well, and I had this

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Speaker 2: distinct feeling that he hadn't really missed the exit, he

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Speaker 2: just dodged the exit, like he dodged a lot of things.

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Speaker 1: Finally, Drew got Mickey to his house and the interview

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Speaker 1: could begin, but Mickey wasn't feeling it, so.

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Speaker 2: He said, you know, whyn't you just give me the

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Speaker 2: questions and I'll take him home. I'll do a proper job.

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Speaker 2: I'll fill him out for you, and i'll get him

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Speaker 2: right back to you. And we went back and forth

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Speaker 2: in a little bit. Finally I agreed, he drove off

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Speaker 2: with the questions.

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Speaker 1: Micky wasn't going to trust some magazine writer with his image.

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Speaker 1: His image was his most precious asset.

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Speaker 2: So he went home and he started to riff on

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Speaker 2: the answers You know, and I don't know. He could

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Speaker 2: have smoked a bowl. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Question what is your relationship with drugs? Answer? It is

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Speaker 1: possible to find pleasure in hallucinatory fantasies. I'm quite sure

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Speaker 1: of it, but I've made my peace with reality. Either

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Speaker 1: one one way or the other is going to solve

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Speaker 1: the acute overpopulation problem.

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Speaker 2: The answers were let's say, free form. They really didn't

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Speaker 2: address the subjects directly. They're more like a philosophical treatise,

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Speaker 2: divided up in the question and answer for him.

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Speaker 1: Question why do you think bombs were planted in your car? Answer?

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Speaker 1: Probably to blow me to bits. By the way, there's

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Speaker 1: no evidence that anyone ever planted bombs in Mickey's car.

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Speaker 2: One of the words that Mickey was often associated with

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Speaker 2: behaviorally was something called misdirection.

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Speaker 1: Question what changes have you witnessed during the course of

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Speaker 1: your surfing career? Answer? First of all, I have no career.

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Speaker 1: I was here before and I'll be hereafter. We are

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Speaker 1: all soon to undergo the sport's demise in the immediate future.

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Speaker 2: So he would do that in conversation. He would do

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Speaker 2: that in his kind of approach to surfing and being

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Speaker 2: in a crowd, how to avoid people and how to

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Speaker 2: encounter them selectively, How to keep people confused and not

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Speaker 2: be direct about anything.

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Speaker 1: Question why do you feel this fall is going to

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Speaker 1: occur in the near future? Answer? The advent of professionalism

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Speaker 1: to the sport will be the final blow. These few

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Speaker 1: Wall Street flesh merchants desire to unify surfing only to

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Speaker 1: extract the wealth. A surfer should think carefully before selling

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Speaker 1: his being to these people. Since he's signing his own

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Speaker 1: death warrant as a personal entity.

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Speaker 2: Something about the word conundrum kind of comes into my mind.

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Speaker 1: Mickey was a profit of doom, and he was especially

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Speaker 1: gloomy about the idea of surfing becoming professionalized, organized, commercialized.

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Speaker 1: He was against anything that took surfing away from its

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Speaker 1: simple origins, from that moment when it was just him

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Speaker 1: alone in a wave at Malibu.

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Speaker 2: So we ran that in Surfer magazine.

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Speaker 1: I'm Dana Goodyear and this is Lost Hills, Episode seven, Misdirection,

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Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven. The Malibu Invitational. A beautiful day and

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Speaker 1: the waves are perfect, four to six feet and clean.

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Speaker 1: It's the best day at Malibu in years. All the

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Speaker 1: biggest names in surfing are there, including of course, Mickey Dora.

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Speaker 1: This is from a contemporary report quote the cat crept in.

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Speaker 1: Dressed in his original tattered and torn trench coat. He

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Speaker 1: smiled from under a week's growth of beard. This was

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Speaker 1: his Malibu unquote.

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Speaker 3: And I had to sit in the judges stand and record.

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Speaker 3: The judge would count to a number, you know, black

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Speaker 3: eight points, you know, and I was writing it down.

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Speaker 3: When it came to the finals. Mickey was quite the

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Speaker 3: young showman.

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Speaker 1: This is Linda Kai. She was a teenager, a member

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Speaker 1: of the Malibu Surf Association working in the judges booth.

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Speaker 1: Everyone was watching Mickey and then he did something totally unexpected.

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Speaker 3: He did a little bit of a pull my pants

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Speaker 3: down and here you go, judges, what do you think

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Speaker 3: of that?

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Speaker 1: Mickey was, as they called it back then, hanging ba

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Speaker 1: for bare ass.

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Speaker 3: I don't know. The moon came out. I think people

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Speaker 3: were shocked. You know, there wasn't like a uterrae or

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Speaker 3: you wouldn't get stuff like that. Now people would go nuts.

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Speaker 3: But you know, what are you gonna do? Blow the

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Speaker 3: air horn or the air gun or what? Did you

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Speaker 3: think you can't just qualify him? Yeah? Well, I was

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Speaker 3: like everybody else. I was pretty stunned, you know, being

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Speaker 3: the complex character that he was. Not me knowing this

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Speaker 3: but now I do. It was probably appropriate because he

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Speaker 3: hated commercialism. Although he wanted to be seen.

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Speaker 1: Micky didn't like surf competitions. The whole idea of surfing

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Speaker 1: going professional just bugged him. It was a threat. Didn't

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Speaker 1: everybody already know who the rightful king of Malibu was.

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Speaker 1: He didn't need pretenders to his throne. But he didn't

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Speaker 1: set the contest out. He invalidated it and burnished his

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Speaker 1: legend in the process, And fifty plus years later, the

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Speaker 1: only thing anyone remembers about the nineteen sixty seven Malibu

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Speaker 1: Invitational is Mickey's bear butt. There were so many Mickey tricks,

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Speaker 1: so many things he's rumored to have done. Rumors he

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Speaker 1: may well have started himself, stealing surfboards from the sets

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Speaker 1: of the movies he worked on and reselling them, setting

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Speaker 1: up an anti civil rights group at a UCLA protest

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Speaker 1: in nineteen sixty five, calling up Surfer magazine pretending to

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Speaker 1: be a rabbi, releasing three thousand moths into the projector

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Speaker 1: at a screening of a Gregnole surf movie while wearing

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Speaker 1: a Groucho Marx disguise, throwing his surf contest trophy in

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Speaker 1: the trash at the Malibu Pit because he got third

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Speaker 1: place when he thought he should have won. People say

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Speaker 1: Gidget started the commercialization of surfing when the movie came

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Speaker 1: out in nineteen fifty nine, and there's some truth to that,

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Speaker 1: but ironically, the roots of the modern surf industry lie

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Speaker 1: in the reaction to Gidget by surfers who are trying

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Speaker 1: to counter the phony image of surfing portrayed in the

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Speaker 1: Hollywood beach movies. These guys, these pure surfers, wanted to

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Speaker 1: show the world that surfing was not some sacran tiney

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Speaker 1: bopper romance that climaxes in a luau, but an epic

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Speaker 1: male adventure around the world in search of waves. So

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Speaker 1: they made documentary style surf movies and showed them in

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Speaker 1: school gyms around the country.

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Speaker 4: And one of those people is Severson, who in nineteen

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Speaker 4: fifty nine decided to create a booklet to go with

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Speaker 4: his latest movie, and that booklet became Surfer Magazine, which

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Speaker 4: debuted in nineteen sixty.

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Speaker 1: John Severson became a major figure in the dissemination of

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Speaker 1: surf culture throughout the World surf historian Matt Warshaw that.

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Speaker 4: To me, sort of when surf media takes a big

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Speaker 4: sort of step forward. By nineteen sixty, you've got the

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Speaker 4: beginnings of what would become the surf industry.

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Speaker 1: Surfer magazine sold the surfing lifestyle literally with ads for

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Speaker 1: boards and fins and reef booties and swim trunks. It

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Speaker 1: became a vehicle for the nascent sport to present itself

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Speaker 1: to the American public. The magazine loved Mickey the anti gidget.

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Speaker 1: He was always good copy and in those early days

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Speaker 1: there were just not that many surfers to choose from.

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Speaker 1: Mickey likewise found Surfer Magazine to be a good medium

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Speaker 1: for his message.

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Speaker 4: It does kind of change everything. It certainly changed things

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Speaker 4: for Mickey Dora because now he had a platform. It

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Speaker 4: was just something that he could have a great time with.

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Speaker 4: I think he just loved being sort of a provocateur

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Speaker 4: right from the beginning, and things that he had been

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Speaker 4: doing in the water was just sort of being aggressive

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Speaker 4: and funny and he could now do in the pages

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Speaker 4: of a magazine, and you know, and he played it

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Speaker 4: to the hill.

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Speaker 1: But there was an inherent conflict between Mickey Dora and

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Speaker 1: the direction that surfing was going. This thing that had

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Speaker 1: been in pursuit of bohemians and dropouts was being made

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Speaker 1: over into a sport that was respectable and organized with rules.

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Speaker 1: And it was happening right in the pages of Surfer magazine.

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Speaker 4: When John Severson and others started to push this thing

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Speaker 4: called the United States Surfing Association, whose mission was to

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Speaker 4: clean up the sport and have contests, and a lot

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Speaker 4: of people just thought, men, get out of here, let

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Speaker 4: us just surf. Dora certainly felt that way.

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Speaker 1: Mickey nominated himself to be the spokesman for surfing's rebel spirit,

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Speaker 1: it's dark side. A decade after Gidget, it was clear

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Speaker 1: there was money to be made in surfing, but how

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Speaker 1: to do it without working too hard.

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Speaker 5: What our generation wanted to do is figure out how

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Speaker 5: you could make a living at it and still keep surfing.

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Speaker 1: This is Jim Kempton, the president of the California Surf Museum.

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Speaker 5: The result of the sixties was nobody wanted to work

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Speaker 5: nine to five, nobody wanted to wear a suit and tie.

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Speaker 5: Everybody wanted to.

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Speaker 2: Live their own.

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Speaker 5: Life and be cool, and at the same time, nobody

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Speaker 5: wanted to be poor and so you know the trick.

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Speaker 5: How do you do that? And the answer was, you

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Speaker 5: figure out how to make the surfing industry work for you.

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Speaker 5: And so for me, that was discovering that when I

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Speaker 5: was going to school in Europe, I went to graduate

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Speaker 5: school in England, and realizing that there was this huge

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Speaker 5: market for anything related to California and surfing.

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Speaker 1: Jim remembers the exact day he figured it out. He'd

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Speaker 1: taken the train into London wearing a Hawaiian shirt he

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Speaker 1: bought at a thrift store back in California. After spending

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Speaker 1: the day in the city, he was hurrying back to

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Speaker 1: the train station to catch the last train home.

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Speaker 5: Rushing down you know, Sloan Square to get to Victoria,

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Speaker 5: and this guy stops me and says, I'll give you

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Speaker 5: fifty quid for that shirt. And I guess, you know,

226
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Speaker 5: I made that look and he said, I'll give you

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Speaker 5: fifty pounds sterling. I said, now, I know how much

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Speaker 5: money it is, but what do you want my shirt for?

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Speaker 5: He said, you're from California, aren't you, And I said yeah.

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Speaker 5: I said you're a surfer, aren't you, And I said, yeah,

231
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Speaker 5: I want that shirt. So you know I'm calculating, God,

232
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Speaker 5: that's like three months in beerits, you know, for their shirt.

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Speaker 5: But I'm thinking, God, I got to catch the train.

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Speaker 5: I haven't got time to go find try to find

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Speaker 5: a shirt. So I said, I gotta go. And the

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Speaker 5: guy took the fifty pound note out of his wallet

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Speaker 5: and he held it up and he said, I want

238
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Speaker 5: that shirt. Take it off right now. And I rode

239
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Speaker 5: home on that train for three and a half hours

240
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Speaker 5: with their shirt on, and a couple of things became

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Speaker 5: really clear to me at that stage. This thing about

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Speaker 5: surfing is way bigger than I realized. Right, This wasn't

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Speaker 5: just this little band of us that were living in

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Speaker 5: France and living in Hawaii and living at Noose Ahead,

245
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Speaker 5: you know, in Australia. This was something everybody knew about.

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Speaker 5: They knew about us, they liked it, they were dying

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Speaker 5: for it, right. And then I went back after I

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Speaker 5: graduated and went to every thrift store from Santa Barbara

249
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Speaker 5: to San Diego and bought every single Hawaiian shirt for

250
00:16:04,236 --> 00:16:06,676
Speaker 5: fifty cents apiece, put him in a giant container and

251
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Speaker 5: shipped him to Europe. And for the next five years,

252
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Speaker 5: that's what I did. That's all I had to do

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Speaker 5: to make a living.

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Speaker 1: Jim's peers were doing the same thing, figuring out how

255
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Speaker 1: to capitalize on the global surfing craze, how to export

256
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Speaker 1: California surf products to the rest of the world. It

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Speaker 1: was a team effort.

258
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Speaker 5: So everyone wanted everyone else to be successful. I mean,

259
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Speaker 5: that's kind of how the surf industry evolved in the

260
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Speaker 5: surf world was all about cooperation. It was all about

261
00:16:36,516 --> 00:16:39,276
Speaker 5: rooting for the other guys because if they could make

262
00:16:39,276 --> 00:16:41,676
Speaker 5: it admant there was a market out there for you

263
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Speaker 5: to exploit as well. Some people were showing movies, some

264
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Speaker 5: people were selling Hawaiian shirts, some people were selling dope,

265
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Speaker 5: some people were selling surfboards, some people were you were

266
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Speaker 5: trying to figure out how to make clothes and so

267
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Speaker 5: or wetsuits or whatever it might be. So everybody at

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Speaker 5: that time we were kind of willing that industry into

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Speaker 5: existence so that we could continue to do what we

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Speaker 5: love doing and make a living in the real world.

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Speaker 1: If you've ever gone anywhere in the world and seen

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Speaker 1: people's eyes light up when they hear the word California,

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Speaker 1: this is why. This is when the world became obsessed

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Speaker 1: with California youth culture. Specifically the surfers. Mickey he started

275
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Speaker 1: hawking boards branded with his nickname the Cat.

276
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Speaker 6: Hey, there another California Gold sneak peek. You are bidding

277
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Speaker 6: on one of the most collected surfboards of its era,

278
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Speaker 6: of any era.

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Speaker 1: This clip is from a vintage surfboard auction that was

280
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Speaker 1: held in twenty twenty.

281
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Speaker 6: Every serious collector has at least one of these beauties

282
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Speaker 6: for you. This year we offer a rare to cat

283
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Speaker 6: color workup all original nine foot eight inches nineteen sixty

284
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Speaker 6: six to Cat model Greg Nole Mickeydora slot bottom with

285
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Speaker 6: green and orange mind melt splash on bottom and deck.

286
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Speaker 6: The sport has the original slip.

287
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Speaker 1: The Cat boards, which were manufactured by Mickey's friend Greg Knowle,

288
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Speaker 1: are still very coveted. That nineteen sixty six board sold

289
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Speaker 1: for seventeen thousand dollars.

290
00:18:19,036 --> 00:18:21,556
Speaker 7: You have to ride the wave and the way it's breaking.

291
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Speaker 7: You know, you can't go left on a right in

292
00:18:24,116 --> 00:18:27,476
Speaker 7: a way that goes to the right. And so he

293
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Speaker 7: could make a rep by bitching about Paradise lost, but

294
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Speaker 7: it's not as if he didn't at times profit from it.

295
00:18:37,876 --> 00:18:41,116
Speaker 1: This is journalist David Renson again. He wrote the Mickey

296
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Speaker 1: Dora biography all for a few perfect waves.

297
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Speaker 7: I mean, it's very complex and how he was trapped

298
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Speaker 7: by his own celebrity in his own story, and he

299
00:18:52,916 --> 00:18:55,116
Speaker 7: couldn't appear to be selling out, so when he did

300
00:18:55,236 --> 00:18:58,036
Speaker 7: sell out, he mocked people. Look at all the ads

301
00:18:58,036 --> 00:19:02,356
Speaker 7: for the Cat surfboard with Greg Knowle. It's a classic.

302
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Speaker 1: Ads for the Cat boards appeared all over the surf magazines.

303
00:19:08,076 --> 00:19:11,956
Speaker 1: There's one where a square jawed cartoon American pilot says

304
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Speaker 1: Da Cat is the greatest threat to our pure white,

305
00:19:14,836 --> 00:19:18,756
Speaker 1: virgin sport. Now it's up to the CIA to crush him.

306
00:19:19,116 --> 00:19:22,156
Speaker 1: There's a black puma wearing a crown and the promise

307
00:19:22,276 --> 00:19:28,396
Speaker 1: that quote de cat will have its revenge someday. There's

308
00:19:28,436 --> 00:19:32,876
Speaker 1: another one where Mickey says, quote, as you are obviously aware,

309
00:19:33,236 --> 00:19:38,076
Speaker 1: most all of my ads are being constantly sabotaged, twisted, censored,

310
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Speaker 1: and the dialogue rearranged. Da Cat has barely five lives left.

311
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Speaker 1: The power mafia that is now controlling the sport is

312
00:19:45,796 --> 00:19:49,556
Speaker 1: on my back as never before. This possibly could be

313
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Speaker 1: the end. In one of the most famous and controversial ads,

314
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Speaker 1: he creates a Da Cat's theory of evolution. It starts

315
00:19:58,476 --> 00:20:02,076
Speaker 1: with a knuckle dragging kook and culminates with the quote

316
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Speaker 1: peak of perfection, Homo sapiens Mickey Dora, It's easy.

317
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Speaker 6: To understand and why this is one of the most

318
00:20:11,156 --> 00:20:16,436
Speaker 6: collected sixties era longboard models, complete with stinging, sarcastic ad campaigns.

319
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Speaker 1: In that twenty twenty Surfboard auction, Mickey's ad campaign is

320
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Speaker 1: one of the board's biggest selling points.

321
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Speaker 6: He also promoted his signature Greg Nole surfboards to cat

322
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Speaker 6: model with full page Surf magazine ads in sixty six

323
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Speaker 6: and sixty seven, including one with Dora crucified on a

324
00:20:35,476 --> 00:20:39,236
Speaker 6: cross made of two surfboards. Dora's acts struck a nerve

325
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Speaker 6: with magazine readers, many writing letters to the editor in praise,

326
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Speaker 6: while others described him as a sick and ignorant person

327
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Speaker 6: who should be banned from the beach.

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Speaker 1: Apparently, the ad that showed Mickey wearing a Nazi iron

329
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Speaker 1: cross was not as offensive as his joke that he

330
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Speaker 1: was the Martyred Savior of surfing. But the ads worked, and.

331
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Speaker 4: They're so good and so funny and so kind of,

332
00:21:04,036 --> 00:21:06,156
Speaker 4: you know, middle finger to the surf establishment that you

333
00:21:06,196 --> 00:21:10,516
Speaker 4: forget he's trying to sell surfboards, writer Matt If you

334
00:21:10,636 --> 00:21:13,556
Speaker 4: just know him from that and from watching him in

335
00:21:13,596 --> 00:21:16,596
Speaker 4: a few clips at Malibu or Sunset Beach, it's hard

336
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Speaker 4: not to say this was the greatest surfer of all time,

337
00:21:19,836 --> 00:21:21,516
Speaker 4: not just for the way he rode ways, but for

338
00:21:21,556 --> 00:21:25,836
Speaker 4: the way he represents the sport. The rebelliousness and the

339
00:21:26,756 --> 00:21:31,236
Speaker 4: anti establishment vibe he's putting out seems deserved. It's going

340
00:21:31,276 --> 00:21:35,516
Speaker 4: toward nonsurfers and it's going to the surf establishment. It's funny.

341
00:21:35,596 --> 00:21:38,476
Speaker 4: He's really bright, and he's just putting the best possible

342
00:21:38,516 --> 00:21:40,556
Speaker 4: face on kind of trolling all these people that you

343
00:21:40,596 --> 00:21:43,516
Speaker 4: would want to troll in the world. All of us

344
00:21:43,516 --> 00:21:45,716
Speaker 4: do as surfers, even if we don't act out on it.

345
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Speaker 4: He did it.

346
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Speaker 1: Micky wasn't going to stop at selling a few thousand surfboards,

347
00:21:51,156 --> 00:21:56,036
Speaker 1: though his sense of the possible was expanding. This was

348
00:21:56,076 --> 00:22:00,956
Speaker 1: a man with expensive taste. Mickey's girlfriend Diane talked about

349
00:22:00,996 --> 00:22:03,516
Speaker 1: how they used to dress up and crash Hollywood parties,

350
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Speaker 1: then steal the credit cards of unsuspecting guests, but then

351
00:22:08,036 --> 00:22:12,236
Speaker 1: Micky asked her to steal airline tickets. That was a

352
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Speaker 1: line she wouldn't cross. Author David Renson.

353
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Speaker 7: Again, if you don't want to work, and you don't

354
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Speaker 7: have any money, and you want to put food on

355
00:22:21,236 --> 00:22:25,156
Speaker 7: the table, and you can't steal from the supermarket too

356
00:22:25,156 --> 00:22:30,036
Speaker 7: many times, or can't go to a Hollywood party and

357
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Speaker 7: have your girlfriend Diane, you know, rifle through the pocketbooks

358
00:22:35,276 --> 00:22:38,956
Speaker 7: and the the you know. Eventually you got to do

359
00:22:39,076 --> 00:22:42,916
Speaker 7: stuff to make money. And I think as time went on,

360
00:22:43,236 --> 00:22:46,516
Speaker 7: the scams got worse because you want to travel, so

361
00:22:46,556 --> 00:22:50,436
Speaker 7: there somebody steals a ticket in printing machine, you know,

362
00:22:50,476 --> 00:22:55,476
Speaker 7: and then they make some phony airline tickets. There's a

363
00:22:55,596 --> 00:23:01,396
Speaker 7: prevailing ethos in the serf world and other worlds where

364
00:23:02,396 --> 00:23:06,476
Speaker 7: artists feel they're getting ripped off by the man. Make

365
00:23:06,556 --> 00:23:07,876
Speaker 7: you want it to be who he wanted to be,

366
00:23:09,156 --> 00:23:11,276
Speaker 7: and he was willing to pay the price. But in

367
00:23:11,356 --> 00:23:13,276
Speaker 7: order to be who he wanted to be, he had

368
00:23:13,316 --> 00:23:15,236
Speaker 7: to be able to slip in and out of society.

369
00:23:15,556 --> 00:23:18,196
Speaker 7: He had to put on a tuxedo, go to a party,

370
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Speaker 7: rip some money off. He wanted the finer things.

371
00:23:23,116 --> 00:23:28,236
Speaker 1: Specifically, he wanted a zebra rug, a new haircut, some

372
00:23:28,396 --> 00:23:34,196
Speaker 1: items from Bullock's department store. Those checks bounced at PC

373
00:23:34,396 --> 00:23:37,676
Speaker 1: lou An Antique store at the Mandarin Hotel on Connaught

374
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Speaker 1: Road in Hong Kong. Mickey wanted a carved gilt panel

375
00:23:41,556 --> 00:23:47,316
Speaker 1: from the Qing dynasty and an embroidered tiger scroll. But

376
00:23:47,356 --> 00:23:50,076
Speaker 1: when the manager at PC Lou wrote to ask why

377
00:23:50,116 --> 00:23:53,076
Speaker 1: he had stopped payment on the check, he responded on

378
00:23:53,196 --> 00:23:58,116
Speaker 1: Quantas Air stationery that PanAm had lost his luggage. It

379
00:23:58,116 --> 00:24:00,356
Speaker 1: will take a few weeks to straighten out my claim,

380
00:24:00,436 --> 00:24:03,196
Speaker 1: he wrote to the manager. You must understand that I

381
00:24:03,236 --> 00:24:05,796
Speaker 1: not only lost the wood carvings, but a great deal

382
00:24:05,796 --> 00:24:10,996
Speaker 1: of expensive jewelry. So sorry for the embarrassment. Some of

383
00:24:11,036 --> 00:24:14,476
Speaker 1: these things would come back to haunt Mickey, but for

384
00:24:14,596 --> 00:24:19,796
Speaker 1: now he seemed able to sideslip any serious trouble. That's

385
00:24:19,836 --> 00:24:23,476
Speaker 1: not to say the cops weren't getting suspicious. In the

386
00:24:23,476 --> 00:24:26,516
Speaker 1: fall of nineteen sixty six, Mickey was arrested and taken

387
00:24:26,556 --> 00:24:29,436
Speaker 1: to the Malibu station of the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department.

388
00:24:30,316 --> 00:24:35,236
Speaker 1: The charge against him grand theft was dismissed, but he

389
00:24:35,356 --> 00:24:39,916
Speaker 1: was definitely on the cops radar. At the station, Mickey

390
00:24:39,916 --> 00:24:43,636
Speaker 1: had been booked under the name Mikil spring Chapin. He

391
00:24:43,716 --> 00:24:48,236
Speaker 1: gave his occupation as occasional salesman for Greg Nole Surfboards.

392
00:24:49,196 --> 00:24:52,036
Speaker 1: The answer to who to notify in case of illness

393
00:24:52,716 --> 00:25:09,916
Speaker 1: was no one, but that was about to change. Linda Kai,

394
00:25:10,236 --> 00:25:14,516
Speaker 1: who witnessed Mickey Dora's iconic mooning of the judges at Malibu,

395
00:25:15,076 --> 00:25:17,836
Speaker 1: was and as a surfer girl.

396
00:25:18,836 --> 00:25:23,876
Speaker 3: Okay, well, I started in North Hollywood, California, and my

397
00:25:23,996 --> 00:25:27,356
Speaker 3: neighbor across the street was twelve years old. And every

398
00:25:27,356 --> 00:25:30,316
Speaker 3: morning I'd see him drive away and his Cadillac convertible

399
00:25:30,396 --> 00:25:32,956
Speaker 3: with this huge thing sticking out of the back. I

400
00:25:32,996 --> 00:25:35,236
Speaker 3: thought it was some kind of a ski, a water ski,

401
00:25:35,316 --> 00:25:38,036
Speaker 3: you know, I didn't know what surfing was. He showed

402
00:25:38,036 --> 00:25:39,596
Speaker 3: it to me and he says, next weekend, I'm going

403
00:25:39,636 --> 00:25:42,916
Speaker 3: to bring you down. And I said, okay. And this

404
00:25:43,076 --> 00:25:47,396
Speaker 3: was in February, in the wintertime, and in February, Malibu's

405
00:25:47,636 --> 00:25:50,556
Speaker 3: back then there was nothing, you know, there's no waves.

406
00:25:50,836 --> 00:25:53,956
Speaker 3: It was cold, you know, we don't have wetsuits then.

407
00:25:54,636 --> 00:25:56,956
Speaker 3: And I went with them and he put me out

408
00:25:56,996 --> 00:25:59,956
Speaker 3: on her twelve foot long board and pushed me into

409
00:25:59,956 --> 00:26:02,676
Speaker 3: a very tiny one foot wave and I loved it.

410
00:26:03,156 --> 00:26:05,516
Speaker 3: I said, this is the greatest thing ever.

411
00:26:06,756 --> 00:26:10,476
Speaker 1: Linda started surfing in nineteen sixty two, and she was hooked.

412
00:26:11,596 --> 00:26:14,916
Speaker 3: I got involved in the Malibu Surfing Association, and then

413
00:26:14,956 --> 00:26:18,396
Speaker 3: I was also reading a lot of surfer magazines, and

414
00:26:19,956 --> 00:26:23,476
Speaker 3: I was noticing that there were characters in these things,

415
00:26:23,596 --> 00:26:26,756
Speaker 3: you know, and some of them were like famous for

416
00:26:26,916 --> 00:26:29,796
Speaker 3: I mean famous, like there it was at Malibu, you know,

417
00:26:29,836 --> 00:26:31,116
Speaker 3: there was characters that I knew.

418
00:26:31,556 --> 00:26:34,196
Speaker 1: And is that how you found out about Mickey with

419
00:26:34,276 --> 00:26:35,116
Speaker 1: the magazine?

420
00:26:35,356 --> 00:26:38,836
Speaker 3: Yes, well that was kind of a start. I've seen

421
00:26:38,916 --> 00:26:40,596
Speaker 3: him on the beach, but I didn't put two and

422
00:26:40,636 --> 00:26:43,716
Speaker 3: two together until we start talking at the meetings in

423
00:26:43,796 --> 00:26:48,396
Speaker 3: Malibu meetings, and then there was contests, and then you

424
00:26:48,476 --> 00:26:50,596
Speaker 3: start to see more of the guys.

425
00:26:52,076 --> 00:26:55,516
Speaker 1: Linda was pretty hardcore. After high school, she got a

426
00:26:55,596 --> 00:26:58,116
Speaker 1: VW van and lived out of it at the beach.

427
00:26:58,676 --> 00:27:01,756
Speaker 1: She surfed all the time. In the winter of nineteen

428
00:27:01,796 --> 00:27:04,596
Speaker 1: seventy one, she was surfing at State Beach in Santa

429
00:27:04,636 --> 00:27:07,796
Speaker 1: Monica when she met Mickey Dora for real for the

430
00:27:07,836 --> 00:27:08,436
Speaker 1: first time.

431
00:27:09,956 --> 00:27:13,596
Speaker 3: I happened to come out of the ocean after a surf,

432
00:27:13,796 --> 00:27:17,436
Speaker 3: and he happened to be out there too, and I

433
00:27:17,556 --> 00:27:21,556
Speaker 3: was getting in my van sitting watching and he comes

434
00:27:21,596 --> 00:27:23,236
Speaker 3: out of the water and he walked up to my

435
00:27:23,316 --> 00:27:25,996
Speaker 3: van and you know, kind of pulls his wetsuit down

436
00:27:26,356 --> 00:27:28,676
Speaker 3: over his shoulders, you know, and all this tan and

437
00:27:28,716 --> 00:27:32,116
Speaker 3: this beauty and glistening and goes. Oh, he says, so

438
00:27:32,436 --> 00:27:36,356
Speaker 3: should go out sometimes, have something to eat, have to dinner. Oh.

439
00:27:36,396 --> 00:27:37,636
Speaker 3: I almost fell off the seat.

440
00:27:39,076 --> 00:27:43,076
Speaker 1: Linda was starstruck. She's been fascinated with Mickey for years,

441
00:27:43,556 --> 00:27:46,236
Speaker 1: nursing a crush that was fueled by everything she read

442
00:27:46,276 --> 00:27:49,196
Speaker 1: about him in the surf magazines and frequent sightings at

443
00:27:49,236 --> 00:27:53,516
Speaker 1: the beach. She was twenty two, he was thirty seven.

444
00:27:54,556 --> 00:28:00,796
Speaker 1: She was totally smitten. So your relationship starts and you're

445
00:28:01,156 --> 00:28:05,316
Speaker 1: living in your van at the beach and he's living.

446
00:28:05,756 --> 00:28:08,196
Speaker 3: In this little apartment in Brentwood.

447
00:28:09,396 --> 00:28:12,076
Speaker 1: And you're kind of stopping by and parking your van

448
00:28:12,116 --> 00:28:12,756
Speaker 1: out front.

449
00:28:12,796 --> 00:28:16,676
Speaker 3: Sometimes gives me the key, and what are you seeing there?

450
00:28:17,556 --> 00:28:21,796
Speaker 3: It was like the Cosba in Morocco. There was stuff

451
00:28:21,876 --> 00:28:25,996
Speaker 3: from everywhere. There was tiger skins on the floor, there

452
00:28:26,076 --> 00:28:31,436
Speaker 3: was big kind of bells, and he had tapestries hanging

453
00:28:31,436 --> 00:28:37,116
Speaker 3: from the ceilings and bear skin rugs on the bed

454
00:28:37,356 --> 00:28:40,316
Speaker 3: and everything was just like from somewhere else. And he

455
00:28:40,396 --> 00:28:42,316
Speaker 3: didn't go to Pier one.

456
00:28:42,996 --> 00:28:47,116
Speaker 1: It was a display of worldliness, and Linda was impressed.

457
00:28:48,396 --> 00:28:52,836
Speaker 3: In his bedroom clicked across the top of the ceiling

458
00:28:53,236 --> 00:28:57,916
Speaker 3: where all these little white things dangling, and he said, Linda,

459
00:28:57,916 --> 00:28:59,236
Speaker 3: do you know what those are? And I said, I

460
00:28:59,236 --> 00:29:03,316
Speaker 3: have no idea. They were tickets. Now, back in those days,

461
00:29:03,436 --> 00:29:08,836
Speaker 3: airline tickets came in like a carbon copied layer of

462
00:29:08,876 --> 00:29:12,836
Speaker 3: maybe before pieces, depending on where you went. So he

463
00:29:12,996 --> 00:29:16,716
Speaker 3: had probably thirty of them taped up going up to

464
00:29:16,756 --> 00:29:20,196
Speaker 3: one of his lamps in the ceiling, and I was like, wow,

465
00:29:20,236 --> 00:29:23,156
Speaker 3: this is interesting. You know, everything in there was interesting.

466
00:29:23,916 --> 00:29:27,356
Speaker 1: Did he seem like a wealthy guy to you?

467
00:29:30,316 --> 00:29:34,196
Speaker 3: After I saw the tickets and the way he was living,

468
00:29:35,116 --> 00:29:38,756
Speaker 3: and I thought there must be some way to do

469
00:29:38,836 --> 00:29:42,076
Speaker 3: this because he wasn't working, you know. I mean he

470
00:29:42,116 --> 00:29:44,276
Speaker 3: was at the beach all the time and not working

471
00:29:44,916 --> 00:29:48,596
Speaker 3: and be able to travel. And I was like, okay,

472
00:29:48,716 --> 00:29:51,956
Speaker 3: you know, must have some money to do all this.

473
00:29:53,916 --> 00:29:57,436
Speaker 1: Mickey implied that he was independently wealthy with investments to

474
00:29:57,476 --> 00:30:00,516
Speaker 1: look after. He was always talking about the price of

475
00:30:00,556 --> 00:30:02,436
Speaker 1: gold and.

476
00:30:02,356 --> 00:30:04,716
Speaker 3: Everything had to stop because he had to listen to

477
00:30:05,036 --> 00:30:08,396
Speaker 3: reports when the stock market came on the radio, and

478
00:30:08,436 --> 00:30:10,636
Speaker 3: he used to get the Myers Letter all the time.

479
00:30:11,836 --> 00:30:15,876
Speaker 3: The Myers was like he was a financial genius of

480
00:30:15,916 --> 00:30:19,396
Speaker 3: what to do with stocks and things like that. But

481
00:30:19,436 --> 00:30:23,236
Speaker 3: there everything went on hold. When when when the financial

482
00:30:23,236 --> 00:30:24,636
Speaker 3: market came on the radio?

483
00:30:25,836 --> 00:30:28,236
Speaker 1: When did you have your first inkling that he was

484
00:30:28,316 --> 00:30:30,716
Speaker 1: running some scams in California.

485
00:30:33,516 --> 00:30:35,516
Speaker 3: I don't know about if he was running them or not,

486
00:30:35,636 --> 00:30:37,876
Speaker 3: but he was quite interested. He had a book called

487
00:30:37,996 --> 00:30:42,796
Speaker 3: Credit Cardsmanship, and I had to flick through that. And

488
00:30:42,836 --> 00:30:48,156
Speaker 3: then he had one called Fake, which was a Hungarian

489
00:30:49,596 --> 00:30:54,876
Speaker 3: artist who did perfect replicas of the great artists and

490
00:30:56,356 --> 00:30:59,636
Speaker 3: sold the mess the deal. And Mickey was quite interested

491
00:30:59,636 --> 00:31:01,916
Speaker 3: in this, you know, he liked the way there was

492
00:31:01,956 --> 00:31:05,076
Speaker 3: a twist, you know of things.

493
00:31:05,716 --> 00:31:08,796
Speaker 1: Linda was skinny, and Mickey taught her how to collect benefits.

494
00:31:08,796 --> 00:31:11,556
Speaker 1: From this date, she went to the welfare office with

495
00:31:11,716 --> 00:31:14,196
Speaker 1: dirt smudged on her face and pretended to be strung

496
00:31:14,196 --> 00:31:17,716
Speaker 1: out on LSD. She came away with food stamps and

497
00:31:17,756 --> 00:31:21,556
Speaker 1: a check for twenty five dollars. She liked a twist too.

498
00:31:25,036 --> 00:31:29,196
Speaker 1: Linda and Mickey had a connection. They both lived to surf,

499
00:31:29,796 --> 00:31:33,956
Speaker 1: and they both had an appetite for risk. What was

500
00:31:33,996 --> 00:31:34,916
Speaker 1: your love for Mickey?

501
00:31:35,036 --> 00:31:39,076
Speaker 3: Like deep big. You said to look at him, and

502
00:31:39,116 --> 00:31:39,476
Speaker 3: we were.

503
00:31:39,396 --> 00:31:41,316
Speaker 1: Like, oh, so it's chemical.

504
00:31:41,436 --> 00:31:45,676
Speaker 3: It was just like a yeah, it's pretty heavy and dumb.

505
00:31:46,676 --> 00:31:50,076
Speaker 3: It was scary too, you know. It was like jumping

506
00:31:50,116 --> 00:31:52,276
Speaker 3: off of a mountain and not knowing what's underneath.

507
00:32:08,556 --> 00:32:12,956
Speaker 1: Next time on Lost Hills.

508
00:32:11,796 --> 00:32:15,476
Speaker 3: Well, we're gonna knock on the door. I see this

509
00:32:15,556 --> 00:32:17,796
Speaker 3: car drive up and I'm like, who the hell's up?

510
00:32:17,836 --> 00:32:22,156
Speaker 3: You know, and I see this blonde comountains dawn. I said, Mickey,

511
00:32:22,196 --> 00:32:25,836
Speaker 3: don's here. He goes what he had a rifle, of course,

512
00:32:26,116 --> 00:32:28,636
Speaker 3: and he had it behind the door. He picks it

513
00:32:28,716 --> 00:32:31,956
Speaker 3: up and just get rid of them, he said, get

514
00:32:31,996 --> 00:32:32,636
Speaker 3: them out of here.

515
00:32:34,356 --> 00:32:43,036
Speaker 1: That's next in episode eight aka Fugitive. Lost Hills is

516
00:32:43,076 --> 00:32:46,556
Speaker 1: written and reported by Me Dana Goodyear. It's created by

517
00:32:46,596 --> 00:32:51,036
Speaker 1: me and Benadere and produced by Western Sound and Pushkin Industries.

518
00:32:51,796 --> 00:32:54,636
Speaker 1: Subscribe to Pushkin Plus and you can binge the entire

519
00:32:54,716 --> 00:32:58,276
Speaker 1: season right now ad free. Find Pushkin Plus on the

520
00:32:58,316 --> 00:33:01,556
Speaker 1: Lost Hills show page in Apple Podcasts, or at pushkin

521
00:33:01,676 --> 00:33:04,036
Speaker 1: dot fm, slash plus