1 00:00:15,066 --> 00:00:21,996 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey Lost Hills listeners, it's Dana. I wanted to 2 00:00:22,036 --> 00:00:24,156 Speaker 1: let you know that you can hear the entire new 3 00:00:24,196 --> 00:00:27,936 Speaker 1: season of Lost Hills ad-free along with other great binge 4 00:00:27,986 --> 00:00:32,206 Speaker 1: listens by becoming a Pushkin Plus subscriber. Find Pushkin Plus 5 00:00:32,406 --> 00:00:35,406 Speaker 1: on the Lost Hills show page in Apple Podcasts or 6 00:00:35,446 --> 00:00:47,366 Speaker 1: at pushkin.fm slash plus. It was the 1960s. The surf 7 00:00:47,406 --> 00:00:51,806 Speaker 1: media was just getting started. And Mickey Dora was its darling. 8 00:00:52,846 --> 00:00:55,366 Speaker 2: Although the phrase was not extant at the time, I 9 00:00:55,846 --> 00:00:58,866 Speaker 2: think badass would do it. Yeah, not to be fucked with. 10 00:00:59,246 --> 00:01:02,026 Speaker 2: The reigning king, as it were. I mean, he was 11 00:01:02,126 --> 00:01:04,586 Speaker 2: acknowledged to be the best there was. 12 00:01:05,786 --> 00:01:08,996 Speaker 1: This is Drew Campion. He started surfing in Malibu in 13 00:01:09,016 --> 00:01:12,536 Speaker 1: the early 60s. He wrote for Surfer magazine and later 14 00:01:12,556 --> 00:01:13,276 Speaker 1: became the editor. 15 00:01:14,466 --> 00:01:18,286 Speaker 2: So it was a conservative publication. And I'd been living 16 00:01:18,326 --> 00:01:22,366 Speaker 2: over the hill up from Malibu in the San Fernando 17 00:01:22,406 --> 00:01:29,176 Speaker 2: Valley and had been introduced to LSD and marijuana. I 18 00:01:29,236 --> 00:01:32,176 Speaker 2: had tasted enough of each of them to have a 19 00:01:32,216 --> 00:01:34,316 Speaker 2: bit of a wrinkle in my perception of the world. 20 00:01:35,136 --> 00:01:38,276 Speaker 2: And so I brought that wrinkle to Surfer, I think. 21 00:01:39,216 --> 00:01:41,576 Speaker 2: And people seemed to respond to it. 22 00:01:43,056 --> 00:01:45,936 Speaker 1: Right after he got hired, Drew got a plum assignment. 23 00:01:46,876 --> 00:01:52,696 Speaker 1: To interview Mickey Dora. It was the fall of 1969. 24 00:01:52,696 --> 00:01:56,936 Speaker 1: Mickey had made his reputation as an enigmatic misanthrope, a trickster. 25 00:01:57,736 --> 00:02:01,876 Speaker 1: If you asked him to zig, he would zag. He was, quote, 26 00:02:02,076 --> 00:02:05,376 Speaker 1: the angry young man of surfing. One of the mags 27 00:02:05,416 --> 00:02:07,856 Speaker 1: had printed a photo of him flipping off the camera. 28 00:02:08,716 --> 00:02:13,776 Speaker 1: But Mickey was also, quote, Mr. Malibu. A singularly good surfer, 29 00:02:14,236 --> 00:02:18,146 Speaker 1: singularly identified with the most iconic surf spot in the country. 30 00:02:19,426 --> 00:02:22,146 Speaker 1: Mickey was hard to pin down. He rarely gave interviews. 31 00:02:22,986 --> 00:02:25,066 Speaker 1: This would be a big get for the magazine. 32 00:02:26,186 --> 00:02:27,856 Speaker 2: We're on the second floor. We could see down on 33 00:02:27,866 --> 00:02:30,916 Speaker 2: the parking lot. Here comes Mickey and his van, you know, 34 00:02:30,956 --> 00:02:35,276 Speaker 2: and somebody alerted everybody, oh, Mickey's coming. So Mickey comes 35 00:02:35,296 --> 00:02:38,296 Speaker 2: into the office and looks around, but there's too many 36 00:02:38,336 --> 00:02:41,936 Speaker 2: people in the office and He says, well, I really 37 00:02:41,956 --> 00:02:45,796 Speaker 2: don't want to do an interview here. Can we go 38 00:02:45,836 --> 00:02:48,356 Speaker 2: somewhere else? And I said, well, I live just down 39 00:02:48,376 --> 00:02:51,496 Speaker 2: the road in San Clemente. We could meet there. 40 00:02:53,276 --> 00:02:55,986 Speaker 1: Mickey agreed, Drew told him which exit, and they got 41 00:02:56,046 --> 00:02:59,286 Speaker 1: in their separate cars. Mickey followed Drew on the freeway 42 00:02:59,386 --> 00:03:03,486 Speaker 1: until they reached the exit. Drew got off, but Mickey didn't. 43 00:03:04,306 --> 00:03:07,686 Speaker 2: What the fuck? So I went straight ahead at the 44 00:03:07,706 --> 00:03:11,256 Speaker 2: bottom of the off-ramp, got back on the freeway, and 45 00:03:11,296 --> 00:03:14,476 Speaker 2: basically chased him down the shore and said, Mickey, you 46 00:03:14,516 --> 00:03:16,716 Speaker 2: missed the exit. And he said, oh, yeah, well, right. 47 00:03:17,216 --> 00:03:19,306 Speaker 2: And I had this distinct feeling that he hadn't really 48 00:03:19,366 --> 00:03:21,726 Speaker 2: missed the exit. He just dodged the exit like he 49 00:03:22,526 --> 00:03:23,466 Speaker 2: dodged a lot of things. 50 00:03:24,486 --> 00:03:27,366 Speaker 1: Finally, Drew got Mickey to his house, and the interview 51 00:03:27,426 --> 00:03:30,746 Speaker 1: could begin. But Mickey wasn't feeling it. 52 00:03:31,806 --> 00:03:34,296 Speaker 2: And so he said, you know, why don't you just 53 00:03:34,856 --> 00:03:37,966 Speaker 2: give me the questions, and I'll take them home. I'll 54 00:03:37,986 --> 00:03:39,846 Speaker 2: do a proper job. I'll fill them out for you, 55 00:03:40,106 --> 00:03:42,466 Speaker 2: and I'll get them right back to you. And we 56 00:03:42,516 --> 00:03:44,306 Speaker 2: went back and forth on that a little bit. Finally, 57 00:03:44,366 --> 00:03:46,636 Speaker 2: I agreed. He drove off with the questions. 58 00:03:48,776 --> 00:03:51,676 Speaker 1: Mickey wasn't going to trust some magazine writer with his image. 59 00:03:52,336 --> 00:03:55,116 Speaker 1: His image was his most precious asset. 60 00:03:56,036 --> 00:03:59,616 Speaker 2: So he went home, and he started to riff on 61 00:03:59,636 --> 00:04:02,616 Speaker 2: the answers, you know. And I don't know. He could 62 00:04:02,636 --> 00:04:05,436 Speaker 2: have smoked a bowl. I don't know. Question. Question. 63 00:04:06,376 --> 00:04:11,206 Speaker 1: What is your relationship with drugs? Answer. It is possible 64 00:04:11,266 --> 00:04:14,726 Speaker 1: to find pleasure in hallucinatory fantasies, I'm quite sure of it. 65 00:04:15,206 --> 00:04:18,606 Speaker 1: But I've made my peace with reality. Either one, one 66 00:04:18,646 --> 00:04:20,906 Speaker 1: way or the other, is going to solve the acute 67 00:04:21,146 --> 00:04:22,406 Speaker 1: overpopulation problem. 68 00:04:23,766 --> 00:04:30,006 Speaker 2: The answers were, let's say, freeform. They really didn't address 69 00:04:30,046 --> 00:04:35,016 Speaker 2: the subjects directly. They're more like a philosophical treatise. divide 70 00:04:35,036 --> 00:04:36,536 Speaker 2: it up into question and answer form. 71 00:04:38,116 --> 00:04:41,306 Speaker 1: Question. Why do you think bombs were planted in your car? 72 00:04:42,176 --> 00:04:42,496 Speaker 2: Answer. 73 00:04:43,306 --> 00:04:46,446 Speaker 1: Probably to blow me to bits. By the way, there's 74 00:04:46,486 --> 00:04:49,306 Speaker 1: no evidence that anyone ever planted bombs in Mickey's car. 75 00:04:50,446 --> 00:04:53,446 Speaker 2: One of the words that Mickey was often associated with 76 00:04:53,666 --> 00:04:56,666 Speaker 2: behaviorally was something called misdirection. 77 00:04:57,506 --> 00:05:00,706 Speaker 1: Question. What changes have you witnessed during the course of 78 00:05:00,746 --> 00:05:05,856 Speaker 1: your surfing career? Answer. First of all, I have no career. 79 00:05:05,876 --> 00:05:08,676 Speaker 1: I was here before and I'll be here after. We 80 00:05:09,456 --> 00:05:12,376 Speaker 1: are all soon to undergo the sports demise in the 81 00:05:12,416 --> 00:05:13,236 Speaker 1: immediate future. 82 00:05:14,996 --> 00:05:18,296 Speaker 2: So he would do that in conversation. He would do 83 00:05:18,356 --> 00:05:22,776 Speaker 2: that in his kind of approach to surfing and being 84 00:05:22,796 --> 00:05:25,436 Speaker 2: in a crowd. How to avoid people and how to 85 00:05:25,676 --> 00:05:29,176 Speaker 2: encounter them selectively. How to keep people confused and not 86 00:05:29,216 --> 00:05:30,376 Speaker 2: be direct about anything. 87 00:05:30,396 --> 00:05:31,636 Speaker 3: Question. 88 00:05:31,696 --> 00:05:32,036 Speaker 4: Question. 89 00:05:32,996 --> 00:05:35,056 Speaker 1: Why do you feel this fall is going to occur 90 00:05:35,096 --> 00:05:40,206 Speaker 1: in the near future? Answer. The advent of professionalism to 91 00:05:40,246 --> 00:05:43,586 Speaker 1: the sport will be the final blow. These few Wall 92 00:05:43,626 --> 00:05:47,686 Speaker 1: Street flesh merchants desire to unify surfing only to extract 93 00:05:47,706 --> 00:05:51,726 Speaker 1: the wealth. A surfer should think carefully before selling his 94 00:05:51,826 --> 00:05:54,996 Speaker 1: being to these people, since he's signing his own death 95 00:05:55,056 --> 00:05:56,656 Speaker 1: warrant as a personal entity. 96 00:05:58,176 --> 00:06:01,296 Speaker 2: Something about the word conundrum kind of comes into my mind. 97 00:06:03,596 --> 00:06:06,536 Speaker 1: Mickey was a prophet of doom, and he was especially 98 00:06:06,596 --> 00:06:11,596 Speaker 1: gloomy about the idea of surfing becoming professionalized, organized, commercialized. 99 00:06:12,356 --> 00:06:15,056 Speaker 1: He was against anything that took surfing away from its 100 00:06:15,116 --> 00:06:18,446 Speaker 1: simple origins, from that moment when it was just him, 101 00:06:19,046 --> 00:06:21,046 Speaker 1: alone on a wave at Malibu. 102 00:06:25,126 --> 00:06:27,046 Speaker 2: So we ran that in Surfer Magazine. 103 00:06:30,166 --> 00:06:33,226 Speaker 1: I'm Dana Goodyear, and this is Lost Hills. 104 00:06:35,166 --> 00:06:40,106 Speaker 5: Episode 7, Misdirection. 105 00:06:40,106 --> 00:07:16,576 Speaker 1: 1967, the Malibu Invitational, a beautiful day and the waves 106 00:07:16,616 --> 00:07:20,416 Speaker 1: are perfect, four to six feet and clean. It's the 107 00:07:20,556 --> 00:07:24,676 Speaker 1: best day at Malibu in years. All the biggest names 108 00:07:24,736 --> 00:07:29,686 Speaker 1: in surfing are there, including, of course, Mickey Dora. This 109 00:07:29,746 --> 00:07:33,656 Speaker 1: is from a contemporary report, quote, The cat crept in, 110 00:07:33,956 --> 00:07:37,336 Speaker 1: dressed in his original tattered and torn trench coat. He 111 00:07:37,376 --> 00:07:40,436 Speaker 1: smiled from under a week's growth of beard. This was 112 00:07:40,516 --> 00:07:41,236 Speaker 1: his Malibu. 113 00:07:41,886 --> 00:07:42,286 Speaker 2: Unquote. 114 00:07:43,566 --> 00:07:47,106 Speaker 4: And I had to sit in the judge's stand and record. 115 00:07:47,946 --> 00:07:50,886 Speaker 4: The judge would count to a number, you know, black, 116 00:07:51,446 --> 00:07:54,456 Speaker 4: eight points, you know, and I was writing it down. 117 00:07:55,256 --> 00:07:59,796 Speaker 4: When it came to the finals, Mickey was quite the showman. 118 00:08:00,656 --> 00:08:03,546 Speaker 1: This is Linda Kai. She was a teenager, a member 119 00:08:03,586 --> 00:08:06,426 Speaker 1: of the Malibu Surf Association, working in the judges' booth. 120 00:08:07,246 --> 00:08:11,906 Speaker 1: Everyone was watching Mickey. And then he did something totally unexpected. 121 00:08:13,546 --> 00:08:15,366 Speaker 4: He did a little bit of a pull my pants 122 00:08:15,426 --> 00:08:16,976 Speaker 4: down and here you go, judges. What do you think 123 00:08:17,016 --> 00:08:17,376 Speaker 4: of that? 124 00:08:18,776 --> 00:08:22,836 Speaker 1: Mickey was, as they called it back then, hanging B.A. 125 00:08:23,536 --> 00:08:24,656 Speaker 1: for bare ass. 126 00:08:25,916 --> 00:08:30,656 Speaker 4: I don't know. The moon came out. I think people 127 00:08:30,676 --> 00:08:33,716 Speaker 4: were shocked, you know. There wasn't like a utero or 128 00:08:33,796 --> 00:08:37,236 Speaker 4: you wouldn't get stuff like that now. People would go nuts. But, 129 00:08:38,336 --> 00:08:39,856 Speaker 4: you know, what are you going to do? Blow the 130 00:08:39,916 --> 00:08:41,036 Speaker 4: air horn or the air gun? 131 00:08:42,076 --> 00:08:43,056 Speaker 1: What did you think about it? 132 00:08:43,076 --> 00:08:43,976 Speaker 4: Disqualify him? 133 00:08:44,076 --> 00:08:44,356 Speaker 2: Yeah. 134 00:08:44,696 --> 00:08:46,736 Speaker 4: Well, I was like everybody else. I was pretty stunned, 135 00:08:46,776 --> 00:08:52,396 Speaker 4: you know. Being the complex character that he was, not 136 00:08:52,436 --> 00:08:54,376 Speaker 4: me knowing this, but now I. 137 00:08:54,356 --> 00:08:54,636 Speaker 6: Do, it. 138 00:08:56,436 --> 00:09:00,356 Speaker 4: Was probably appropriate because he hated commercialism. although he wanted 139 00:09:00,396 --> 00:09:00,876 Speaker 4: to be seen. 140 00:09:02,396 --> 00:09:05,986 Speaker 1: Mickey didn't like surf competitions. The whole idea of surfing 141 00:09:06,026 --> 00:09:10,886 Speaker 1: going professional just bugged him. It was a threat. Didn't 142 00:09:10,946 --> 00:09:13,966 Speaker 1: everybody already know who the rightful king of Malibu was? 143 00:09:14,886 --> 00:09:18,736 Speaker 1: He didn't need pretenders to his throne. But he didn't 144 00:09:18,786 --> 00:09:23,376 Speaker 1: sit the contest out. He invalidated it and burnished his 145 00:09:23,436 --> 00:09:28,166 Speaker 1: legend in the process. And 50-plus years later, The only 146 00:09:28,226 --> 00:09:33,426 Speaker 1: thing anyone remembers about the 1967 Malibu Invitational is Mickey's 147 00:09:33,666 --> 00:09:39,886 Speaker 1: bare butt. There were so many Mickey tricks. So many 148 00:09:39,946 --> 00:09:43,496 Speaker 1: things he's rumored to have done. Rumors he may well 149 00:09:43,546 --> 00:09:47,376 Speaker 1: have started himself. Stealing surfboards from the sets of the 150 00:09:47,436 --> 00:09:51,096 Speaker 1: movies he worked on and reselling them. Setting up an 151 00:09:51,316 --> 00:09:57,086 Speaker 1: anti-civil rights group at a UCLA protest in 1965. calling 152 00:09:57,146 --> 00:10:01,806 Speaker 1: up Surfer magazine, pretending to be a rabbi. Releasing 3,000 153 00:10:01,806 --> 00:10:04,426 Speaker 1: moths into the projector at a screening of a Greg 154 00:10:04,446 --> 00:10:09,676 Speaker 1: Knoll surf movie while wearing a Groucho Marx disguise. throwing 155 00:10:09,756 --> 00:10:12,556 Speaker 1: his surf contest trophy in the trash at the Malibu 156 00:10:12,576 --> 00:10:15,616 Speaker 1: Pit because he got third place when he thought he 157 00:10:15,636 --> 00:10:21,686 Speaker 1: should have won. People say Gidget started the commercialization of 158 00:10:21,746 --> 00:10:25,626 Speaker 1: surfing when the movie came out in 1959, and there's 159 00:10:25,646 --> 00:10:29,376 Speaker 1: some truth to that. But ironically, the roots of the 160 00:10:29,416 --> 00:10:33,056 Speaker 1: modern surf industry lie in the reaction to Gidget by 161 00:10:33,176 --> 00:10:35,996 Speaker 1: surfers who are trying to counter the phony image of 162 00:10:36,056 --> 00:10:40,916 Speaker 1: surfing portrayed in the Hollywood beach movies. These guys, these 163 00:10:41,056 --> 00:10:44,596 Speaker 1: pure surfers, wanted to show the world that surfing was 164 00:10:45,256 --> 00:10:49,356 Speaker 1: not some saccharine teeny-bopper romance that climaxes in a luau, 165 00:10:50,196 --> 00:10:54,276 Speaker 1: but an epic male adventure around the world in search 166 00:10:54,316 --> 00:11:03,766 Speaker 1: of waves. So they made documentary-style surf movies and showed 167 00:11:03,786 --> 00:11:05,666 Speaker 1: them in school gyms around the country. 168 00:11:08,026 --> 00:11:12,056 Speaker 6: And one of those people was John Severson, who in 169 00:11:12,056 --> 00:11:16,156 Speaker 6: 1959 decided to create a booklet to go with his 170 00:11:16,216 --> 00:11:22,176 Speaker 6: latest movie. And that booklet became Surfer Magazine, which debuted 171 00:11:22,376 --> 00:11:24,416 Speaker 6: in 1960. 172 00:11:24,416 --> 00:11:27,676 Speaker 1: John Severson became a major figure in the dissemination of 173 00:11:27,756 --> 00:11:31,836 Speaker 1: surf culture throughout the world. Surf historian Matt Warshaw. 174 00:11:32,676 --> 00:11:35,076 Speaker 6: That to me is sort of the, when surf media 175 00:11:35,096 --> 00:11:38,556 Speaker 6: takes a big sort of step forward. By 1960, you've 176 00:11:38,576 --> 00:11:41,116 Speaker 6: got the beginnings of what would become. 177 00:11:41,116 --> 00:11:41,916 Speaker 2: The surf industry. 178 00:11:43,136 --> 00:11:47,736 Speaker 1: Surfer magazine sold the surfing lifestyle, literally, with ads for 179 00:11:47,816 --> 00:11:51,196 Speaker 1: boards and fins and reef booties and swim trunks. It 180 00:11:51,236 --> 00:11:54,296 Speaker 1: became a vehicle for the nascent sport to present itself 181 00:11:54,376 --> 00:11:59,566 Speaker 1: to the American public. The magazine loved Mickey, the anti-gidget. 182 00:12:00,246 --> 00:12:03,836 Speaker 1: he was always good copy. And in those early days, 183 00:12:04,016 --> 00:12:08,356 Speaker 1: there were just not that many surfers to choose from. Mickey, likewise, 184 00:12:08,516 --> 00:12:11,716 Speaker 1: found Surfer Magazine to be a good medium for his message. 185 00:12:13,036 --> 00:12:16,136 Speaker 6: It does kind of change everything. It certainly changed things 186 00:12:16,176 --> 00:12:18,496 Speaker 6: for Mickey Dora because now he had a platform. It 187 00:12:18,516 --> 00:12:20,596 Speaker 6: was just something that he could have a great time with. 188 00:12:20,636 --> 00:12:23,706 Speaker 6: I think he just loved being sort of a provocateur 189 00:12:23,766 --> 00:12:26,206 Speaker 6: right from the beginning. And things that he had been 190 00:12:26,246 --> 00:12:29,736 Speaker 6: doing in the water was just sort of being aggressive 191 00:12:29,776 --> 00:12:32,456 Speaker 6: and funny, and he could now do in the pages 192 00:12:32,496 --> 00:12:35,776 Speaker 6: of a magazine. And, you know, and he played it 193 00:12:35,796 --> 00:12:36,236 Speaker 6: to the hilt. 194 00:12:38,316 --> 00:12:41,356 Speaker 1: But there was an inherent conflict between Mickey Dora and 195 00:12:41,376 --> 00:12:45,166 Speaker 1: the direction that surfing was going. This thing that had 196 00:12:45,186 --> 00:12:49,066 Speaker 1: been the pursuit of bohemians and dropouts was being made 197 00:12:49,166 --> 00:12:54,426 Speaker 1: over into a sport that was respectable and organized with rules. 198 00:12:55,446 --> 00:12:58,206 Speaker 1: And it was happening right in the pages of Surfer Magazine. 199 00:12:59,566 --> 00:13:03,226 Speaker 6: When John Severson and others started to push this thing 200 00:13:03,246 --> 00:13:06,926 Speaker 6: called the United States Surfing Association, whose mission was to 201 00:13:07,486 --> 00:13:10,906 Speaker 6: clean up the sport and have contests, and a lot 202 00:13:10,926 --> 00:13:13,046 Speaker 6: of people just thought, man, get out of here. Let 203 00:13:13,086 --> 00:13:15,166 Speaker 6: us just surf. Dora certainly felt that way. 204 00:13:17,006 --> 00:13:21,126 Speaker 1: Mickey nominated himself to be the spokesman for surfing's rebel spirit. 205 00:13:22,716 --> 00:13:36,946 Speaker 1: It's Darkseid. A decade after Gidget, it was clear. There 206 00:13:36,986 --> 00:13:40,126 Speaker 1: was money to be made in surfing. But how to 207 00:13:40,186 --> 00:13:42,206 Speaker 1: do it without working too hard? 208 00:13:43,466 --> 00:13:45,766 Speaker 5: What our generation wanted to do was figure out how 209 00:13:45,826 --> 00:13:47,826 Speaker 5: you could make a living at it and. 210 00:13:47,766 --> 00:13:48,686 Speaker 2: Still keep surfing. 211 00:13:50,406 --> 00:13:53,806 Speaker 1: This is Jim Kempton, the president of the California Surf Museum. 212 00:13:54,606 --> 00:13:57,356 Speaker 5: The result of the 60s was nobody wanted to work 213 00:13:57,356 --> 00:13:59,276 Speaker 5: 9 to 5, nobody wanted to wear a suit and tie, 214 00:13:59,336 --> 00:14:03,956 Speaker 5: everybody wanted to live their own life and be cool 215 00:14:04,656 --> 00:14:06,596 Speaker 5: and at the same time nobody wanted to be poor 216 00:14:07,496 --> 00:14:09,636 Speaker 5: and so you know the trick was how do you 217 00:14:09,656 --> 00:14:12,316 Speaker 5: do that and the answer was you figure out how 218 00:14:12,356 --> 00:14:16,436 Speaker 5: to make the surfing industry work for you and so 219 00:14:16,496 --> 00:14:19,916 Speaker 5: for me that was discovering that when I was going 220 00:14:19,936 --> 00:14:21,986 Speaker 5: to school in Europe I went to graduate school in 221 00:14:22,066 --> 00:14:26,586 Speaker 5: England and realizing that there was this huge market for 222 00:14:26,726 --> 00:14:29,186 Speaker 5: anything related to California and surfing. 223 00:14:30,326 --> 00:14:34,216 Speaker 1: Jim remembers the exact day he figured it out He'd 224 00:14:34,236 --> 00:14:37,196 Speaker 1: taken the train into London wearing a Hawaiian shirt he'd 225 00:14:37,236 --> 00:14:40,456 Speaker 1: bought at a thrift store back in California. After spending 226 00:14:40,476 --> 00:14:42,276 Speaker 1: the day in the city, he was hurrying back to 227 00:14:42,296 --> 00:14:44,726 Speaker 1: the train station to catch the last train home. 228 00:14:44,746 --> 00:14:49,506 Speaker 5: I'm rushing down Sloan Square to get to Victoria, and 229 00:14:49,526 --> 00:14:52,486 Speaker 5: this guy stops me and says, I'll give you 50 230 00:14:52,486 --> 00:14:54,956 Speaker 5: quid for that shirt. And I guess I made that look, 231 00:14:54,976 --> 00:14:56,856 Speaker 5: and he said, I'll give you 50 pounds sterling. I said, 232 00:14:56,936 --> 00:14:58,396 Speaker 5: I know how much money it is, but what do 233 00:14:58,416 --> 00:15:00,796 Speaker 5: you want my shirt for? He said, you're from California, 234 00:15:00,836 --> 00:15:01,096 Speaker 5: aren't you? 235 00:15:01,156 --> 00:15:01,716 Speaker 2: I said, yeah. 236 00:15:01,776 --> 00:15:03,536 Speaker 5: He said, you're a surfer, aren't you? I said, yeah. 237 00:15:04,256 --> 00:15:07,016 Speaker 5: I want that shirt. So, you know, I'm calculating, God, 238 00:15:07,056 --> 00:15:09,596 Speaker 5: that's like three months in beer. It's, you know, for 239 00:15:09,636 --> 00:15:11,776 Speaker 5: the shirt. But I'm thinking, God, I got to catch 240 00:15:11,826 --> 00:15:13,686 Speaker 5: the train. I haven't got time to go find, try 241 00:15:13,706 --> 00:15:15,586 Speaker 5: to find a shirt. So I said, I got to go. 242 00:15:16,046 --> 00:15:18,086 Speaker 5: And the guy took the 50 pound note out of 243 00:15:18,126 --> 00:15:19,886 Speaker 5: his wallet and he held it up and he said, 244 00:15:19,906 --> 00:15:26,656 Speaker 5: I want that shirt. Take it off right now. And 245 00:15:26,696 --> 00:15:28,356 Speaker 5: I rode home on that train for three and a 246 00:15:28,376 --> 00:15:32,296 Speaker 5: half hours with no shirt on. And a couple of 247 00:15:32,346 --> 00:15:36,566 Speaker 5: things became really clear to me at that stage. This 248 00:15:36,686 --> 00:15:40,586 Speaker 5: thing about surfing is way bigger than I realized, right? 249 00:15:40,626 --> 00:15:43,166 Speaker 5: This wasn't just this little band of us that were 250 00:15:43,196 --> 00:15:46,356 Speaker 5: living in France and living in Hawaii and living at 251 00:15:46,396 --> 00:15:50,576 Speaker 5: Noose Ahead in Australia. This was something everybody knew about. 252 00:15:50,596 --> 00:15:53,896 Speaker 5: They knew about us. They liked it. They were dying 253 00:15:53,976 --> 00:15:56,936 Speaker 5: for it, all right? And then I went back after 254 00:15:56,996 --> 00:16:00,536 Speaker 5: I graduated and went to every thrift store from Santa 255 00:16:00,576 --> 00:16:03,976 Speaker 5: Barbara to San Diego and bought every single Hawaiian shirt 256 00:16:04,076 --> 00:16:06,576 Speaker 5: for 50 cents apiece, put them in a giant container 257 00:16:06,616 --> 00:16:08,916 Speaker 5: and shipped them to Europe. And for the next five years, 258 00:16:08,966 --> 00:16:10,546 Speaker 5: that's what I did. That's all I had to do 259 00:16:10,566 --> 00:16:11,146 Speaker 5: to make a living. 260 00:16:12,906 --> 00:16:16,366 Speaker 1: Jim's peers were doing the same thing, figuring out how 261 00:16:16,406 --> 00:16:20,426 Speaker 1: to capitalize on the global surfing craze, how to export 262 00:16:20,526 --> 00:16:23,626 Speaker 1: California surf products to the rest of the world. It 263 00:16:23,666 --> 00:16:24,426 Speaker 1: was a team effort. 264 00:16:25,606 --> 00:16:28,866 Speaker 5: So everyone wanted everyone else to be successful. I mean, 265 00:16:28,906 --> 00:16:33,366 Speaker 5: that's kind of how the surf industry evolved. In the 266 00:16:33,406 --> 00:16:36,186 Speaker 5: surf world, it was all about cooperation. It was all 267 00:16:36,226 --> 00:16:39,066 Speaker 5: about rooting for the other guys because if they could 268 00:16:39,106 --> 00:16:41,246 Speaker 5: make it, it meant there was a market out there 269 00:16:41,346 --> 00:16:44,826 Speaker 5: for you to exploit as well. Some people were showing movies. 270 00:16:44,866 --> 00:16:48,006 Speaker 5: Some people were selling Hawaiian shirts. Some people were selling dope. 271 00:16:48,026 --> 00:16:51,346 Speaker 5: Some people were selling surfboards. Some people were trying to 272 00:16:51,366 --> 00:16:53,886 Speaker 5: figure out how to make clothes or wetsuits or whatever. 273 00:16:55,026 --> 00:16:55,886 Speaker 2: Whatever it might be. 274 00:16:55,966 --> 00:16:59,426 Speaker 5: So everybody at that time, we were kind of willing 275 00:16:59,446 --> 00:17:03,466 Speaker 5: that industry into existence so that we could continue to 276 00:17:03,546 --> 00:17:06,886 Speaker 5: do what we love doing and make a living in 277 00:17:07,466 --> 00:17:08,086 Speaker 5: the real world. 278 00:17:09,866 --> 00:17:12,456 Speaker 1: If you've ever gone anywhere in the world and seen 279 00:17:12,506 --> 00:17:15,816 Speaker 1: people's eyes light up when they hear the word California, 280 00:17:16,476 --> 00:17:20,896 Speaker 1: this is why. This is when the world became obsessed 281 00:17:20,936 --> 00:17:29,216 Speaker 1: with California youth culture. Specifically, the surfers. Mickey, he started 282 00:17:29,296 --> 00:17:32,416 Speaker 1: hawking boards branded with his nickname, Da Cat. 283 00:17:33,536 --> 00:17:36,876 Speaker 7: Hey there, another California Gold sneak peek. You are bidding 284 00:17:36,996 --> 00:17:40,096 Speaker 7: on one of the most collected surfboards of its era, 285 00:17:40,176 --> 00:17:41,096 Speaker 7: of any era. 286 00:17:41,876 --> 00:17:44,836 Speaker 1: This clip is from a vintage surfboard auction that was 287 00:17:44,876 --> 00:17:46,636 Speaker 1: held in 2020. 288 00:17:46,636 --> 00:17:49,176 Speaker 7: Every serious collector has at least one of these beauties 289 00:17:49,216 --> 00:17:51,916 Speaker 7: for you. This year, we offer a rare Da Cat 290 00:17:52,056 --> 00:17:58,016 Speaker 7: color workup. All original 9'8, 1966 DeKalb model Greg Knoll 291 00:17:58,076 --> 00:18:02,336 Speaker 7: Mickey Dora slot bottom with green and orange mind melt 292 00:18:02,596 --> 00:18:05,856 Speaker 7: splash on bottom and deck. 293 00:18:05,896 --> 00:18:10,776 Speaker 1: DeKalb boards, which were manufactured by Mickey's friend Greg Knoll, 294 00:18:11,206 --> 00:18:17,406 Speaker 1: are still very coveted. That 1966 board sold for $ 17, 000. 295 00:18:16,206 --> 00:18:21,486 Speaker 1: You have to ride the wave in the way it's breaking. 296 00:18:22,006 --> 00:18:24,526 Speaker 3: You know, you can't go left on a wave that 297 00:18:24,546 --> 00:18:29,096 Speaker 3: goes to the right. And so he could make a 298 00:18:29,176 --> 00:18:33,196 Speaker 3: rep by bitching about Paradise Lost, but it's not as 299 00:18:33,276 --> 00:18:36,366 Speaker 3: if he didn't, at times, profit from it. 300 00:18:37,876 --> 00:18:41,096 Speaker 1: This is journalist David Renson again. He wrote the Mickey 301 00:18:41,116 --> 00:18:44,016 Speaker 1: Dora biography, all for a few perfect waves. 302 00:18:44,036 --> 00:18:49,126 Speaker 3: I mean, it's very complex in how he was trapped 303 00:18:49,146 --> 00:18:52,906 Speaker 3: by his own celebrity and his own story. And he 304 00:18:52,926 --> 00:18:55,106 Speaker 3: couldn't appear to be selling out. So when he did 305 00:18:55,176 --> 00:18:57,936 Speaker 3: sell out, he mocked people. Look at all the ads 306 00:18:57,956 --> 00:19:02,316 Speaker 3: for the Cat surfboard with Greg Knoll. It's a classic. 307 00:19:04,176 --> 00:19:07,336 Speaker 1: Ads for the Cat boards appeared all over the surf magazines. 308 00:19:08,056 --> 00:19:12,556 Speaker 1: There's one where a square-jawed cartoon American pilot says, The 309 00:19:12,596 --> 00:19:15,606 Speaker 1: Cat is the greatest threat to our pure white virgin sport. 310 00:19:16,106 --> 00:19:19,326 Speaker 1: Now it's up to the CIA to crush him. There's 311 00:19:19,366 --> 00:19:22,986 Speaker 1: a black puma wearing a crown and the promise that, quote, 312 00:19:23,426 --> 00:19:28,986 Speaker 1: Da Cat will have its revenge someday. There's another one 313 00:19:29,046 --> 00:19:33,476 Speaker 1: where Mickey says, quote, As you are obviously aware, most 314 00:19:33,656 --> 00:19:38,016 Speaker 1: all of my ads are being constantly sabotaged, twisted, censored, 315 00:19:38,176 --> 00:19:42,496 Speaker 1: and the dialogue rearranged. Da Cat has barely five lives left. 316 00:19:42,996 --> 00:19:45,716 Speaker 1: The power mafia that is now controlling the sport is 317 00:19:45,816 --> 00:19:49,526 Speaker 1: on my back as never before. this possibly could be 318 00:19:49,566 --> 00:19:53,976 Speaker 1: the end. In one of the most famous and controversial ads, 319 00:19:54,276 --> 00:19:58,606 Speaker 1: he creates a Descartes theory of evolution. It starts with 320 00:19:58,646 --> 00:20:03,456 Speaker 1: a knuckled kook and culminates with the, quote, peak of perfection, 321 00:20:04,056 --> 00:20:06,056 Speaker 1: Homo sapiens, Mickey Dora. 322 00:20:07,996 --> 00:20:10,886 Speaker 7: It's easy to understand why this is one of the 323 00:20:10,926 --> 00:20:16,326 Speaker 7: most collected 60s-era longboard models, complete with stinging, sarcastic ad campaigns. 324 00:20:18,316 --> 00:20:22,096 Speaker 1: In that 2020 surfboard auction, Mickey's ad campaign is one 325 00:20:22,116 --> 00:20:23,776 Speaker 1: of the board's biggest selling points. 326 00:20:25,226 --> 00:20:28,326 Speaker 7: He also promoted his signature Greg Knoll surfboards to cat 327 00:20:28,366 --> 00:20:32,326 Speaker 7: model with full-page surf magazine ads in 66 and 67, 328 00:20:32,326 --> 00:20:36,406 Speaker 7: including one with Dora crucified on a cross made of 329 00:20:36,466 --> 00:20:40,336 Speaker 7: two surfboards. Dora's act struck a nerve with magazine readers, 330 00:20:40,396 --> 00:20:44,056 Speaker 7: many writing letters to the editor in praise, while others 331 00:20:44,096 --> 00:20:47,166 Speaker 7: described him as a sick and ignorant person. who should 332 00:20:47,206 --> 00:20:48,606 Speaker 7: be banned from the beach. 333 00:20:50,186 --> 00:20:53,386 Speaker 1: Apparently, the ad that showed Mickey wearing a Nazi iron 334 00:20:53,466 --> 00:20:56,196 Speaker 1: cross was not as offensive as his joke that he 335 00:20:56,246 --> 00:21:00,276 Speaker 1: was the martyred savior of surfing. But the ads worked. 336 00:21:01,176 --> 00:21:03,256 Speaker 6: And they're so good and so funny and so kind of, 337 00:21:04,036 --> 00:21:06,156 Speaker 6: you know, middle finger to the surf establishment that you 338 00:21:06,196 --> 00:21:10,936 Speaker 6: forget he's trying to sell surfboards. If you just know 339 00:21:10,976 --> 00:21:13,876 Speaker 6: him from that and from watching him in a few 340 00:21:13,896 --> 00:21:17,076 Speaker 6: clips at Malibu or Sunset Beach... It's hard not to 341 00:21:17,636 --> 00:21:19,966 Speaker 6: say this was the greatest surfer of all time, not 342 00:21:19,986 --> 00:21:21,586 Speaker 6: just for the way he rode waves, but for the 343 00:21:21,626 --> 00:21:27,746 Speaker 6: way he represents the sport. The rebelliousness and the anti-establishment 344 00:21:28,066 --> 00:21:32,676 Speaker 6: vibe he's putting out seems deserved. It's going toward non-surfers 345 00:21:32,736 --> 00:21:35,496 Speaker 6: and it's going to the surf establishment. It's funny. 346 00:21:35,636 --> 00:21:36,516 Speaker 2: He's really bright. 347 00:21:36,576 --> 00:21:39,136 Speaker 6: And he's just putting the best possible face on kind 348 00:21:39,156 --> 00:21:41,596 Speaker 6: of trolling all these people that you would want to 349 00:21:41,656 --> 00:21:44,296 Speaker 6: troll in the world. All of us do as surfers, 350 00:21:44,356 --> 00:21:46,216 Speaker 6: even if we don't act out on it. He did it. 351 00:21:48,266 --> 00:21:51,346 Speaker 1: Mickey wasn't going to stop at selling a few thousand surfboards, though. 352 00:21:52,166 --> 00:21:56,126 Speaker 1: His sense of the possible was expanding. This was a 353 00:21:56,166 --> 00:22:01,136 Speaker 1: man with expensive taste. Mickey's girlfriend Diane talked about how 354 00:22:01,176 --> 00:22:04,336 Speaker 1: they used to dress up in crash Hollywood parties, then 355 00:22:04,376 --> 00:22:08,336 Speaker 1: steal the credit cards of unsuspecting guests. But then Mickey 356 00:22:08,476 --> 00:22:12,556 Speaker 1: asked her to steal airline tickets. That was a line 357 00:22:12,836 --> 00:22:16,166 Speaker 1: she wouldn't cross. Author David Renson again. 358 00:22:17,486 --> 00:22:19,066 Speaker 3: If you don't want to work and you don't have 359 00:22:19,106 --> 00:22:21,226 Speaker 3: any money and you want to put food on the 360 00:22:21,286 --> 00:22:25,306 Speaker 3: table and you can't steal from the supermarket too many 361 00:22:25,346 --> 00:22:30,716 Speaker 3: times or can't go to a Hollywood party and have 362 00:22:30,736 --> 00:22:36,316 Speaker 3: your girlfriend Diane, you know, rifle through the pocketbooks and the, 363 00:22:36,356 --> 00:22:40,606 Speaker 3: you know, eventually you got to do stuff to make money. 364 00:22:41,046 --> 00:22:43,986 Speaker 3: And I think as time went on, the scams got 365 00:22:44,026 --> 00:22:48,066 Speaker 3: worse because he wanted to travel. So somebody steals a 366 00:22:48,266 --> 00:22:52,646 Speaker 3: ticket imprinting machine, and then they make some phony airline tickets. 367 00:22:55,126 --> 00:23:00,046 Speaker 3: There's a prevailing ethos in the surf world and other 368 00:23:00,126 --> 00:23:05,066 Speaker 3: worlds where artists feel they're getting ripped off by the man. 369 00:23:06,366 --> 00:23:09,216 Speaker 3: Mickey wanted to be who he wanted to be. And 370 00:23:09,256 --> 00:23:11,516 Speaker 3: he was willing to pay the price. But in order 371 00:23:11,536 --> 00:23:13,336 Speaker 3: to be who he wanted to be, he had to 372 00:23:13,356 --> 00:23:15,216 Speaker 3: be able to slip in and out of society. He 373 00:23:15,616 --> 00:23:18,276 Speaker 3: had to put on a tuxedo, go to a party, 374 00:23:18,446 --> 00:23:21,466 Speaker 3: rip some money off. He wanted the finer things. 375 00:23:23,166 --> 00:23:28,346 Speaker 1: Specifically, he wanted a zebra rug, a new haircut, some 376 00:23:28,466 --> 00:23:34,686 Speaker 1: items from Bullock's department store. Those checks bounced. At PC Lu, 377 00:23:34,806 --> 00:23:37,986 Speaker 1: an antique store at the Mandarin Hotel on Connott Road 378 00:23:38,206 --> 00:23:41,716 Speaker 1: in Hong Kong, Mickey wanted a carved gilt panel from 379 00:23:41,736 --> 00:23:47,476 Speaker 1: the Qing Dynasty and an embroidered tiger scroll. But when 380 00:23:47,516 --> 00:23:50,136 Speaker 1: the manager at P.C. Liu wrote to ask why he 381 00:23:50,176 --> 00:23:53,616 Speaker 1: had stopped payment on the check, he responded, on Qantas 382 00:23:53,676 --> 00:23:58,096 Speaker 1: Air stationary, that Pan Am had lost his luggage. It 383 00:23:58,136 --> 00:24:00,356 Speaker 1: will take a few weeks to straighten out my claim, 384 00:24:00,456 --> 00:24:03,146 Speaker 1: he wrote to the manager. You must understand that I 385 00:24:03,206 --> 00:24:05,766 Speaker 1: not only lost the wood carvings, but a great deal 386 00:24:05,826 --> 00:24:10,946 Speaker 1: of expensive jewelry. So sorry for the embarrassments. Some of 387 00:24:10,996 --> 00:24:14,806 Speaker 1: these things would come back to haunt Mickey. But for now, 388 00:24:15,146 --> 00:24:19,946 Speaker 1: he seemed able to sideslip any serious trouble. That's not 389 00:24:19,986 --> 00:24:23,746 Speaker 1: to say the cops weren't getting suspicious. In the fall 390 00:24:23,786 --> 00:24:27,176 Speaker 1: of 1966, Mickey was arrested and taken to the Malibu 391 00:24:27,196 --> 00:24:31,316 Speaker 1: station of the Los Angeles Sheriff's Department. The charge against him, 392 00:24:31,956 --> 00:24:37,146 Speaker 1: grand theft, was dismissed. But he was definitely on the cops' radar. 393 00:24:38,726 --> 00:24:41,086 Speaker 1: At the station, Mickey had been booked under the name 394 00:24:41,426 --> 00:24:46,736 Speaker 1: Meikle Spring Chapin. He gave his occupation as occasional salesman 395 00:24:46,796 --> 00:24:51,056 Speaker 1: for Greg Knoll Surfboards. The answer to who to notify 396 00:24:51,076 --> 00:24:57,356 Speaker 1: in case of illness was no one. But that was 397 00:24:57,416 --> 00:25:12,456 Speaker 1: about to change. Linda Kai, who witnessed Mickey Dora's iconic 398 00:25:12,556 --> 00:25:17,096 Speaker 1: mooning of the judges at Malibu, was, and is, a 399 00:25:17,166 --> 00:25:17,836 Speaker 1: surfer girl. 400 00:25:18,866 --> 00:25:23,946 Speaker 4: Okay, well, I started in North Hollywood, California, and my 401 00:25:24,026 --> 00:25:26,866 Speaker 4: neighbor across the street, I was 12 years old, and 402 00:25:27,186 --> 00:25:29,786 Speaker 4: every morning I'd see him drive away in his Cadillac 403 00:25:29,806 --> 00:25:32,286 Speaker 4: convertible with this huge thing sticking out of the back. 404 00:25:32,926 --> 00:25:34,606 Speaker 4: I thought it was some kind of a ski, a 405 00:25:34,646 --> 00:25:37,026 Speaker 4: water ski, you know. I didn't know what surfing was. 406 00:25:37,536 --> 00:25:39,316 Speaker 4: He showed it to me, and he says, next weekend 407 00:25:39,356 --> 00:25:42,616 Speaker 4: I'm going to bring you down. And I said, okay. 408 00:25:42,716 --> 00:25:47,056 Speaker 4: And this was in February, the wintertime. And in February, Malibu's, 409 00:25:47,646 --> 00:25:50,286 Speaker 4: back then, there was nothing. You know, there was no waves. 410 00:25:50,866 --> 00:25:54,006 Speaker 4: It was cold. You know, we don't have wetsuits then. 411 00:25:54,706 --> 00:25:56,966 Speaker 4: And I went with him, and he put me out 412 00:25:57,006 --> 00:26:00,016 Speaker 4: on a 12-foot long board and pushed me into a 413 00:26:00,096 --> 00:26:03,496 Speaker 4: very tiny one-foot wave, and I loved it. I said, 414 00:26:03,576 --> 00:26:05,376 Speaker 4: this is the greatest thing ever. 415 00:26:06,786 --> 00:26:10,346 Speaker 1: Linda started surfing in 1962, and she was hooked. 416 00:26:11,606 --> 00:26:14,886 Speaker 4: I got involved in the Malibu Surfing Association, and then 417 00:26:14,966 --> 00:26:18,746 Speaker 4: I was also reading a lot of surfer magazines, and 418 00:26:19,996 --> 00:26:23,376 Speaker 4: I was noticing that there were characters in these things, 419 00:26:23,556 --> 00:26:26,856 Speaker 4: you know, and some of them were, like, famous for, 420 00:26:26,936 --> 00:26:29,796 Speaker 4: I mean, famous, like, there was at Malibu, you know, 421 00:26:29,836 --> 00:26:30,956 Speaker 4: there was characters that I knew. 422 00:26:30,976 --> 00:26:34,076 Speaker 1: Is that how you found out about Mickey? 423 00:26:34,096 --> 00:26:34,456 Speaker 2: Yes. Yes, well. 424 00:26:36,946 --> 00:26:39,106 Speaker 4: That was kind of a start. I've seen them on 425 00:26:39,126 --> 00:26:41,226 Speaker 4: the beach, but I didn't put two and two together 426 00:26:41,386 --> 00:26:44,636 Speaker 4: until we started talking at the meetings, in Malibu meetings, 427 00:26:44,876 --> 00:26:48,796 Speaker 4: and then there was contests, and then you start to 428 00:26:48,856 --> 00:26:50,256 Speaker 4: see more of the guys. 429 00:26:52,076 --> 00:26:55,516 Speaker 1: Linda was pretty hardcore. After high school, she got a 430 00:26:55,536 --> 00:26:58,056 Speaker 1: VW van and lived out of it at the beach. 431 00:26:58,696 --> 00:27:02,596 Speaker 1: She surfed all the time. In the winter of 1971, 432 00:27:02,596 --> 00:27:05,176 Speaker 1: she was surfing at State Beach in Santa Monica, California. 433 00:27:05,336 --> 00:27:08,376 Speaker 1: when she met Mickey Dora for real for the first time. 434 00:27:09,976 --> 00:27:13,416 Speaker 4: I happened to come out of the ocean after a surf, 435 00:27:13,876 --> 00:27:17,456 Speaker 4: and he happened to be out there too. And I 436 00:27:17,476 --> 00:27:21,516 Speaker 4: was getting in my van, sitting, watching, and he comes 437 00:27:21,556 --> 00:27:23,226 Speaker 4: out of the water, and he walked up to my 438 00:27:23,266 --> 00:27:26,006 Speaker 4: van and, you know, kind of pulls his wetsuit down 439 00:27:26,366 --> 00:27:28,666 Speaker 4: over his shoulders, you know, and all this tan and 440 00:27:28,706 --> 00:27:32,466 Speaker 4: this beauty and glistening, and he goes, he says, we 441 00:27:32,486 --> 00:27:36,376 Speaker 4: should go out sometime. have something to eat, have to dinner. Oh, 442 00:27:36,436 --> 00:27:37,576 Speaker 4: I almost fell off the seat. 443 00:27:39,076 --> 00:27:43,016 Speaker 1: Linda was starstruck. She'd been fascinated with Mickey for years, 444 00:27:43,536 --> 00:27:46,226 Speaker 1: nursing a crush that was fueled by everything she read 445 00:27:46,256 --> 00:27:49,126 Speaker 1: about him in the surf magazines and frequent sightings at 446 00:27:49,146 --> 00:27:54,846 Speaker 1: the beach. She was 22. He was 37. She was 447 00:27:54,946 --> 00:28:01,466 Speaker 1: totally smitten. So your relationship starts and you're living in 448 00:28:01,486 --> 00:28:05,146 Speaker 1: your van at the beach and you're He's living in. 449 00:28:05,866 --> 00:28:09,746 Speaker 4: This little apartment in Brentwood. 450 00:28:09,766 --> 00:28:12,026 Speaker 1: And you're kind of stopping by and parking your van 451 00:28:12,106 --> 00:28:13,246 Speaker 1: out front sometimes. 452 00:28:13,286 --> 00:28:13,926 Speaker 4: He gives me the key. 453 00:28:15,686 --> 00:28:16,546 Speaker 1: And what do you see in there? 454 00:28:17,566 --> 00:28:21,746 Speaker 4: It was like the Cosbah in Morocco. There was stuff 455 00:28:21,846 --> 00:28:25,956 Speaker 4: from everywhere. There was tiger skins on the floor. There 456 00:28:25,996 --> 00:28:31,376 Speaker 4: was big kind of bells. And he had tapestries hanging 457 00:28:31,456 --> 00:28:37,496 Speaker 4: from the ceilings. and bearskin rugs on the bed, and 458 00:28:37,696 --> 00:28:40,636 Speaker 4: everything was just like from somewhere else, and he didn't 459 00:28:40,696 --> 00:28:43,036 Speaker 4: go to Pier 1. 460 00:28:43,036 --> 00:28:47,096 Speaker 1: It was a display of worldliness, and Linda was impressed. 461 00:28:48,426 --> 00:28:52,846 Speaker 4: In his bedroom, clicked across the top of the ceiling 462 00:28:53,246 --> 00:28:57,886 Speaker 4: were all these little white things dangling, and he said, Linda, 463 00:28:57,906 --> 00:28:59,146 Speaker 4: do you know what those are? And I said, I 464 00:28:59,166 --> 00:29:03,196 Speaker 4: have no idea. They were tickets. Now back in those days, 465 00:29:03,476 --> 00:29:08,896 Speaker 4: airline tickets came in like a carbon copied layer of 466 00:29:08,936 --> 00:29:12,916 Speaker 4: maybe four pieces, depending on where you went. So he 467 00:29:12,976 --> 00:29:16,706 Speaker 4: had probably 30 of them taped up, going up to 468 00:29:16,766 --> 00:29:19,906 Speaker 4: one of his lamps in the ceiling. And I was like, wow, 469 00:29:20,206 --> 00:29:23,126 Speaker 4: this is interesting, you know. Everything in there was interesting. 470 00:29:23,926 --> 00:29:27,306 Speaker 1: Did he seem like a wealthy guy to you? 471 00:29:30,436 --> 00:29:34,206 Speaker 4: After I saw the tickets and the way he was living, 472 00:29:34,226 --> 00:29:38,706 Speaker 4: and I thought there must be some way to do 473 00:29:38,786 --> 00:29:42,166 Speaker 4: this because he wasn't working, you know. I mean, he's 474 00:29:42,226 --> 00:29:45,426 Speaker 4: at the beach all the time and not working and 475 00:29:46,026 --> 00:29:48,926 Speaker 4: be able to travel. And I was like, okay, you know. 476 00:29:49,436 --> 00:29:52,016 Speaker 4: must have some money to do all this. 477 00:29:53,896 --> 00:29:57,406 Speaker 1: Mickey implied that he was independently wealthy with investments to 478 00:29:57,446 --> 00:30:00,846 Speaker 1: look after. He was always talking about the price of gold. 479 00:30:02,426 --> 00:30:04,846 Speaker 4: Everything had to stop because he had to listen to 480 00:30:05,026 --> 00:30:08,416 Speaker 4: reports when the stock market came on the radio. And 481 00:30:08,476 --> 00:30:10,576 Speaker 4: he used to get the Myers letter all the time. 482 00:30:11,816 --> 00:30:15,846 Speaker 4: The Myers was like, he was a financial genius of 483 00:30:15,906 --> 00:30:19,406 Speaker 4: what to do with stocks and things like that. But 484 00:30:19,646 --> 00:30:23,906 Speaker 4: everything went on hold when the financial market came on 485 00:30:24,166 --> 00:30:24,606 Speaker 4: the radio. 486 00:30:25,826 --> 00:30:28,236 Speaker 1: When did you have your first inkling that he was 487 00:30:28,306 --> 00:30:30,716 Speaker 1: running some scams in California? 488 00:30:30,736 --> 00:30:31,816 Speaker 2: Yeah. 489 00:30:33,536 --> 00:30:35,586 Speaker 4: I don't know about if he was running them or not, 490 00:30:35,606 --> 00:30:37,926 Speaker 4: but he was quite interested. He had a book called 491 00:30:38,006 --> 00:30:42,786 Speaker 4: Credit Cardsmanship, and I had a flick through that. And 492 00:30:42,826 --> 00:30:48,186 Speaker 4: then he had one called Fake, which was a Hungarian 493 00:30:49,566 --> 00:30:55,106 Speaker 4: artist who did perfect replicas of the great artists and 494 00:30:56,376 --> 00:30:59,596 Speaker 4: sold them as the deal. And Mickey was quite interested 495 00:30:59,656 --> 00:31:02,336 Speaker 4: in this. He liked the way there was a twist. 496 00:31:02,956 --> 00:31:03,876 Speaker 4: you know, of things. 497 00:31:05,716 --> 00:31:08,196 Speaker 1: Linda was skinny, and Mickey taught her how to collect 498 00:31:08,276 --> 00:31:11,356 Speaker 1: benefits from the state. She went to the welfare office 499 00:31:11,436 --> 00:31:13,796 Speaker 1: with dirt smudged on her face and pretended to be 500 00:31:13,856 --> 00:31:17,516 Speaker 1: strung out on LSD. She came away with food stamps 501 00:31:17,596 --> 00:31:21,556 Speaker 1: and a check for $ 25. She liked a twist, too. 502 00:31:25,016 --> 00:31:29,136 Speaker 1: Linda and Mickey had a connection. They both lived to surf, 503 00:31:29,796 --> 00:31:33,916 Speaker 1: and they both had an appetite for risk. What was 504 00:31:33,936 --> 00:31:36,886 Speaker 1: your love for Mickey like? Deep, big. 505 00:31:36,906 --> 00:31:39,486 Speaker 4: You just had to look at him, and we were. 506 00:31:39,306 --> 00:31:39,806 Speaker 3: Like, ugh. 507 00:31:40,446 --> 00:31:42,306 Speaker 1: So it was chemical. It was just like a. 508 00:31:42,886 --> 00:31:48,806 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's pretty heavy, and it was scary, too. It 509 00:31:48,846 --> 00:31:51,436 Speaker 4: was like jumping off of a mountain and not knowing 510 00:31:51,456 --> 00:31:52,116 Speaker 4: what's underneath. 511 00:32:08,556 --> 00:32:09,836 Speaker 1: Next time on Lost Hills. 512 00:32:11,776 --> 00:32:15,326 Speaker 4: Well, we get a knock on the door. I see 513 00:32:15,346 --> 00:32:17,766 Speaker 4: this car drive up, and I'm like, who the hell's that, 514 00:32:17,806 --> 00:32:19,726 Speaker 4: you know? I see this blonde come out. 515 00:32:19,766 --> 00:32:20,306 Speaker 1: It's Don. 516 00:32:20,326 --> 00:32:22,566 Speaker 4: I said, Mickey, Don's here. 517 00:32:22,586 --> 00:32:23,486 Speaker 5: He goes, what? 518 00:32:24,726 --> 00:32:26,826 Speaker 4: He had a rifle, of course. He had it behind 519 00:32:26,846 --> 00:32:29,496 Speaker 4: the door. He picks it up. He says, get rid 520 00:32:29,516 --> 00:32:32,486 Speaker 4: of him. He said, get them out of here. 521 00:32:34,306 --> 00:32:43,026 Speaker 1: That's next in Episode 8, a.k.a. Fugitive. Lost Hills is 522 00:32:43,066 --> 00:32:46,476 Speaker 1: written and reported by me, Dana Goodyear. It's created by 523 00:32:46,556 --> 00:32:49,936 Speaker 1: me and Ben Adair and produced by Western Sound and 524 00:32:49,996 --> 00:32:54,036 Speaker 1: Pushkin Industries. Subscribe to Pushkin Plus and you can binge 525 00:32:54,076 --> 00:32:58,156 Speaker 1: the entire season right now ad-free. Find Pushkin Plus on 526 00:32:58,176 --> 00:33:00,906 Speaker 1: the Lost Hills show page in Apple Podcasts or at 527 00:33:01,106 --> 00:33:03,916 Speaker 1: pushkin.fm slash plus.