1 00:00:01,160 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: You asked me to find the fourteenth man for your expedition, 2 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: and I chose mister Baggins. Just let anyone say I 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,960 Speaker 1: chose the wrong man or the wrong house, and you 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: can stop at thirteen and have all the bad luck 5 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:18,360 Speaker 1: you like, or go back to digging coal. He scowled 6 00:00:18,480 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: so angrily and glowing that the dwarf huddled back in 7 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:24,040 Speaker 1: his chair. And when Bilbo tried to open his mouth 8 00:00:24,079 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: to ask a question, he turned and frowned at him 9 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,480 Speaker 1: and stuck out his bushy eyebrows till Bilbo shut his 10 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 1: mouth tight and snap, that's right. Let's have no more argument. 11 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 1: I have chosen mister Baggins, and that ought to be 12 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,519 Speaker 1: enough for all of you. If I say he is 13 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: a burglar, a burglar he is, or will be when 14 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,959 Speaker 1: the time comes. There's a lot more to him than 15 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,400 Speaker 1: you guess, and a deal more than he has any 16 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 1: idea of himself. You may possibly all live to thank me. Yet, 17 00:00:55,520 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: welcome to stuff to blow your mind? The production of 18 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:06,480 Speaker 1: My Heart Radio. Hey, are you welcome to stuff to 19 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,720 Speaker 1: blow your mind? My name is Robert Lamb, and I'm 20 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: Joe McCormick, and I guess it's obvious that we're back 21 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: in Hobbit territory today. That's right. You know, we did 22 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: an episode, I guess a few months back or several 23 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:19,800 Speaker 1: months back, I'm not sure which, where we talked about 24 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:23,199 Speaker 1: the One Ring, we contemplated the metallurgy of the Rings 25 00:01:23,240 --> 00:01:25,800 Speaker 1: of Power and the Lord of the Rings. And in 26 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: this episode, we're going to be returning to Middle Earth. 27 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 1: We're going to look at everyone's favorite hole dwelling pipe 28 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 1: smoking six meal a day, eating humanoids, the Hobbit. So 29 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 1: this year I was going back and reading Lord of 30 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: the Rings, and I was about halfway through Fellowship of 31 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: the Ring, and the question entered my mind. And that 32 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: question is are the Hobbits too cute? Are their lives 33 00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,120 Speaker 1: just too quaint and too sweet for this story? And 34 00:01:52,440 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 1: I thought about it for a minute. I was like, 35 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 1: you know, I get a little bit board maybe in 36 00:01:56,640 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: some of the early chapters of Fellowship where it's going 37 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: on and on about the the quaintness of the Hobbit existence. 38 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: But then I realized, no, I think it really does work. It. Uh. 39 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: It's important for the story because it makes you feel 40 00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 1: the adventure and the pain of the adventure all the more. 41 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:16,160 Speaker 1: When you get a full feeling for how cozy and 42 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 1: unadventurous their their prequest lives were. Yeah, it's in a 43 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 1: fantastic world that just gets more and more fantastic and 44 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: dark and magical the further out you go from the Shire, 45 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: the realm of the Middle Earth that is home to 46 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: the Hobbits, you know, And it makes sense to start 47 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:37,400 Speaker 1: with something that is quaint, that is normal, that is 48 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:42,960 Speaker 1: almost you know, painfully British and cozy and uh uh, 49 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 1: not so much cute, I guess, at least not in 50 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: the original intent. I know, I know, I've read that 51 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: Tolkien did not like the idea of illustrations that made 52 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: the Hobbits look too much like children, because they should 53 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: all look like like small little like middle aged or 54 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:03,239 Speaker 1: old men imagine. But yeah, you need you need somebody 55 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: ordinary to go on these adventures, to be challenged by 56 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 1: these adventures. Right, you feel the rain and the hardness 57 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 1: of the stones under their feet and the threat of 58 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: the Goblin's blade so much more when you've when you've 59 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:18,959 Speaker 1: seen the world of Tea by the Fire. Yeah, and 60 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: then and there's certainly the the species of Middle Earth 61 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,119 Speaker 1: that we can relate to the most. They are, they're 62 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: really they're even more human than the humans or the 63 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:30,800 Speaker 1: men as Token calls them, uh, that we encounter in 64 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: the story. Essentially the main storytelling reason that the Hobbits 65 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 1: are central to the Lord of the Rings and the Hobbit. 66 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: But of course there's more to this as well, more 67 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: to unwrap. And and that's why we chose that particular 68 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: passage from the Hobbit to read at the beginning, because 69 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: in this particular section, basically Gandalf, the gray globetrotting wizard 70 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 1: that he is, is injecting himself into dwarf and politics 71 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: essentially to rid the world of the last evil dragon 72 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: so that it can't aid the coming war with Saaron. Uh. 73 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: You know, it's uh, you know, it's it's in a way, 74 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: it's kind of like shady politics, I guess, but it's 75 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: it's certainly yeah, but it's it's it serves a greater good. 76 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: And and but Gandalf is getting a bit frustrated because 77 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 1: he's he's helping the dwarves out, he's enabling this mission, 78 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,480 Speaker 1: uh to to retake their mountain from smog. And they 79 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,160 Speaker 1: don't want to have thirteen dwarves go on a trip 80 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 1: that's unlucky. They need another person, and Gandalf says, here 81 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,560 Speaker 1: you go, Here is a Hobbit, here's Bilbo. He's the 82 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 1: fellow you need. He's a burglar. You're gonna need a burglar. 83 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: And of course the whole time Bilbo is like, I 84 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 1: can't go on adventure. I can't do that. I don't 85 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,200 Speaker 1: have any of these skills. And the dwarves are agreeing 86 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 1: with him, and they're saying, oh, he's useless, let's not 87 00:04:42,560 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: take him. Don't you have something else. Let's just eat 88 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,719 Speaker 1: all his food and move on, right, So you know 89 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: it's you. It's it's easy to to understand the criticism 90 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: because Bilbo does seem rather useless, and he remains rather 91 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: useless feeling for a large portion of the book. Uh 92 00:05:02,800 --> 00:05:06,400 Speaker 1: So it raises the question is there something about the Hobbit? 93 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: Is there something about this species that that that is 94 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:14,560 Speaker 1: really special? Is there Hobbit exceptionalism that might be exploited? 95 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 1: And that is ultimately what Gandalf is leaning on, that 96 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: there's something special about the Hobbits that will help enable, 97 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 1: you know, first of all, victory and this mission to 98 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: retake the Lonely Mountain, and then ultimately in the quest 99 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 1: of the Ring that we encounter in the Lord of 100 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: the Rings. You know, despite how over the course of 101 00:05:31,240 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: The Lord of the Rings we see several different Hobbits 102 00:05:34,120 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: in different ways, at different times, being seduced by the 103 00:05:36,720 --> 00:05:39,840 Speaker 1: power of the Ring, it does seem like Hobbits, more 104 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,920 Speaker 1: than other creatures, are somewhat resistant to it. Like they 105 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 1: are somehow able to put up more of a fight, 106 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: to be less enticed by the promises of power and 107 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: glory that the Ring entails. Yeah, perhaps leaning into their 108 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: inherent quaintness, right, I mean, ultimately, all any hobbit wants 109 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: is a nice hobbit hole to live in and a 110 00:05:57,960 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: mug of ale and you know, some some mush rooms 111 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 1: and eggs and bacon for for one of their many meals. 112 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 1: I mean, almost any time a man, a human gets 113 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 1: his hands on the ring, he's like, oh great, yes, 114 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,480 Speaker 1: so we'll slow down for a second here, because there 115 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: may be some people out there. I find it hard 116 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:17,479 Speaker 1: to believe, but there may be some people who don't 117 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: know what a hobbit is. Well, just to drive it 118 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: home here, the Lord of the Rings the Hobbit. These 119 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: books are our fantasy novels full of elves, and goblins, dragons, 120 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: uh you know, demonic ball rogs, uh, half living ring races, 121 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,479 Speaker 1: and various demigods and wizards. But then we also have 122 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: the quaint hobbits, and typically they fit the following profile. 123 00:06:40,920 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: They are quote a little people about half our height. 124 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,240 Speaker 1: They walk around barefooted and boast a generous helping of 125 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: hair atop each foot. I was to understand they had 126 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: hair underneath their feet. Is that not right? I think 127 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:55,839 Speaker 1: you're right as well. We just that the illustrations rarely 128 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:58,600 Speaker 1: show that that the bottom of the foot hair. I 129 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: think that was my understanding is that they're they're very um. 130 00:07:01,480 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: They're actually good as burglars because they're very light of 131 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 1: step and their footfalls are quiet cushioned by this hair. 132 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: They're also known for their hobbit holes. These are fashionable 133 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: underground homes, but they don't always reside in these, despite 134 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 1: their their overall subterranean tendencies and a likely history of 135 00:07:17,280 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: borrow habitation and uh oh. A big one, of course, 136 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: is their hunger. They're their appetite. They require some six 137 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: meals a day or what about second breakfast, and then 138 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: they're also at least very good at hiding, which can 139 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: be extrapolated into a skill of burglary. And I guess 140 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: that's that's one argument for what Gandolf is saying, Like, 141 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: here is a species it's naturally good at hiding. So 142 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: given time, by the time you get to the Lonely Mountain, 143 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,240 Speaker 1: Bilbo will either be dead or very good at adventuring 144 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: and the like in a stealthy way, he will have 145 00:07:49,160 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: leveled up appropriately. But another another way to look at 146 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: it is to look at the specific biological adaptations of 147 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 1: a hypothetical hobbit species. And so that's what we're gonna 148 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: largely focus on in this episode. And the beautiful thing 149 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: is that we don't have to just make all of 150 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: this up on our own. They're a handful of papers 151 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: that we've been able to refer to, generally of the 152 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: tongue in cheek variety. So we're not talking like hard, 153 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: serious scientific or medical contemplation, but still do get quantitative 154 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: about it. And then you get quantitative and they get 155 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,360 Speaker 1: into the science of like, all right, let's talk about hobbits. 156 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: Let's talk about how much they eat? Would they be healthy? 157 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 1: Would they be actually capable of walking across the continent 158 00:08:30,840 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 1: with a bunch of adventurers. Uh, you know what, are 159 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: they truly this this solid investment that Gandalf the Gray seas. 160 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 1: That's a mighty good question. I mean, not to cast 161 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 1: any doubt on Gandalf the Gray's um in a mindset here. 162 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,079 Speaker 1: You know, clearly great wizard. We'd love to have him 163 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: on the show sometime for an interview. But uh, to 164 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: tune into our new podcast series, Gandalf Mindset. It's where 165 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 1: you learn wizard mindset. Mindset. There's probably way a book 166 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: about that. Don't let them steal your staff. Six easy 167 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:08,760 Speaker 1: steps to Wizard dominance. I would not be surprised if 168 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: if to find out that a book like that existed. 169 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: All right, well, let's start with the with the obvious, 170 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: the dietary constraints of the Hobbit. Now, this is going 171 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: to be one of the main differences you would notice 172 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: in like a physical energy kind of situation with the Hobbits, 173 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:25,320 Speaker 1: because they never stop eating. That's one of the things 174 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: that has driven home again and again in the books. 175 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: It's always time for a meal. Yeah yeah, and they 176 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: Plus they tend to be a little bit portly, leading 177 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 1: many a non halfling to question their sedendary lifestyle and 178 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: and and and, as well as their insistence on those 179 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:42,520 Speaker 1: six daily meals because they go with breakfast, second breakfast, 180 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:47,400 Speaker 1: eleven seas, luncheon, afternoon tea, dinner, and supper. How is 181 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,520 Speaker 1: dinner different from supper? Yeah? That that one was the 182 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:52,199 Speaker 1: hardest for me to figure out, because I was like, 183 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: all right, let me look at my own, you know, 184 00:09:54,280 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 1: dietary requirements in my schedule, and and I realized, Okay, 185 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 1: I usually like breakfast for me is like smoothie and coffee, 186 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 1: and then second breakfast is like more coffee and like 187 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: an apple or something later on, and then eleven z s. 188 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: I'm I have been known to have like a half 189 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 1: a peanut butter sandwich, perhaps with more coffee, and then 190 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 1: I have actual lunch, and then I don't have afternoon tea, 191 00:10:14,720 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: but I generally have more coffee and perhaps another apple, 192 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 1: and then dinner I have an evening meal, But supper 193 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: I can't. I can't really come up with a uh, 194 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: you know, a possibility for that in my life, like 195 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:28,920 Speaker 1: unless you count an after dinner drink or a you know, 196 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,360 Speaker 1: a late night snack as a meal. And I don't 197 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: think we were talking about that with Hobbits. I think 198 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 1: for each of these, with the possible exception of the 199 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:39,599 Speaker 1: afternoon tea, we're talking about a full blown meal or 200 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: you're closer to Hobbit scheduling than a lot of people. 201 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 1: Though it sounds like it sounds like you kind of graze. Yeah, 202 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 1: I mean, especially if I'm working from home and it's 203 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,439 Speaker 1: cold out, then it's just you know, wandering around trying 204 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: to figure out what I can smear peanut butter on um. 205 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: That's why it's good to get out of the house. 206 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's it's hard to figure out how that 207 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 1: what the difference between uh supper and dinner would be 208 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,679 Speaker 1: for the for the Hobbit, And clearly it points towards 209 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 1: just the fact that they need more to eat. They 210 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:12,559 Speaker 1: have just higher dietary requirements than a mere human or 211 00:11:12,640 --> 00:11:15,640 Speaker 1: some other species. So here's the question, based on real 212 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: world biology, is this sort of diet reasonable for a 213 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: creature of the hobbit stature? And unfortunately we have a 214 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,880 Speaker 1: paper to refer to in Christio Meno, Horan and sky 215 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:32,120 Speaker 1: Rosetti of the University of Leicester Center for Interdisciplinary Science 216 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: weighed in on the issue in their paper Modeling the 217 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:39,480 Speaker 1: BMR of Species in Middle Earth. So the BMR in question, 218 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 1: this is the base metabolic rate. This is the number 219 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: of calories that our bodies are very cells need in 220 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: order to function well. And the base part of it 221 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,800 Speaker 1: would be this is not including whatever extra stuff you're doing. 222 00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: This is just like to stay alive. Yeah, this is 223 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,560 Speaker 1: not just like extra curricular eating, the wandering around the 224 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: house looking for peanut butter sort of thing. So ather 225 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: of words, the researchers set out to gauge the amount 226 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,800 Speaker 1: of energy that a Hobbit's body needs to function at rest, 227 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:07,959 Speaker 1: and they did this not only for the Hobbits of 228 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,680 Speaker 1: Middle Earth, but also for the fair elves. They did 229 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 1: this by modeling each fictional race as an actual Mammalian 230 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,040 Speaker 1: Earth species. The European road deer stood in for forest 231 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:23,280 Speaker 1: dwelling elves, and the Hobbit, being a burrowing hole dwelling people, 232 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: was stuck with the Southwestern pygmy possum. And this is 233 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:32,000 Speaker 1: what they figured out. They decided that for a hobbit BMR, 234 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 1: we're looking at one thousand, eight hundred and eighteen point 235 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 1: seven kilo calories every day. This compared to seventeen h 236 00:12:39,840 --> 00:12:43,439 Speaker 1: two point to killer calories every six days for humans 237 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,600 Speaker 1: or or men in Middle Earth as they're called, and 238 00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: then for elves, we're looking at one thousand, four hundred, 239 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,480 Speaker 1: sixteen point five kilo calories. As such, they figured the 240 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:57,719 Speaker 1: average hobbit would require some six point seven meals per day, 241 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,199 Speaker 1: and uh, indeed that's in keeping with the high hiher 242 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 1: energy demands for smaller birds and mammals. Now, you might think, 243 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: why would smaller animals on average have greater relative food requirements, right, Like, 244 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 1: wouldn't it be bigger animals that would have greater relative 245 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: food requirements. Well, on average, smaller animals do tend to 246 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:22,319 Speaker 1: have faster metabolisms. There's you know, individual variation, but on average, 247 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: the smaller you are, probably the more energy you burn 248 00:13:25,880 --> 00:13:29,800 Speaker 1: proportional to your body mass. Why would this be? One 249 00:13:29,840 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 1: major reason is thermoregulation. So a major part of what 250 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:38,600 Speaker 1: chemical energy from food does in metabolism is keep the 251 00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: body warm. Heat loss from an organism is a function 252 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:46,079 Speaker 1: of its surface area. So in the past we've talked about, 253 00:13:46,080 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: you know, one reason for the biological implausibility of like 254 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: Kaiju sized animals like King Kong is that they would 255 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: probably have trouble cooling their bodies they're they're too big. 256 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: They've got too much volume and not enough surface area 257 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: for heat to escape through. Even worse, if you happen 258 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: to be a giant fire breathing dragon like small exactly uh, 259 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,960 Speaker 1: smaller animals that would have exactly the opposite problem. Right. 260 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,000 Speaker 1: Smaller animals have a greater surface area to volume ratio, 261 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,920 Speaker 1: meaning they lose heat faster than larger animals. Think of 262 00:14:17,960 --> 00:14:21,440 Speaker 1: the way that a smaller ice cube melts faster than 263 00:14:21,480 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: a bigger one. Uh. So they often have to eat 264 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: a lot more relative to their body weight to maintain 265 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: a stable body temperature. Uh. Some very small animals have 266 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: just unbelievable metabolic requirements and can eat huge amounts of 267 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 1: food relative to their bodies. I was reading a Good 268 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,360 Speaker 1: nat Geo article about this by Liz Langley, and uh, 269 00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: it made an interesting point in comparison, so it brings 270 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: up the biggest animal on the earth, the blue whale. 271 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:50,480 Speaker 1: The blue whale on average eats about four tons of 272 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: krill every day, and that is definitely a lot of food, 273 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,800 Speaker 1: or it sounds like a lot, But the blue whale 274 00:14:56,840 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: has a body mass of around two hundred tons, so 275 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:04,160 Speaker 1: on average the whale is only eating about two percent 276 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 1: worth of its body weight every twenty four hours. Meanwhile, 277 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,000 Speaker 1: the pigmy shrew of Britain, which only weighs about an ounce, 278 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: can eat about a hundred and twenty five percent of 279 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: its body weight per day. So think about this, It's 280 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:21,200 Speaker 1: like a one hundred and sixty pound human eight a 281 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: hundred and twenty five percent of their body weight every day. 282 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 1: This would be about two hundred pounds worth of food. 283 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: I did some math and if it was all Big Max, 284 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 1: that's about three hundred and seventy six Big Max a day. Wow, 285 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:38,160 Speaker 1: just spread out before you. That's that's something they divided 286 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: into six meals. The shrew factoid reminds me of I 287 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 1: imagine you've seen this because it was on MSTY three 288 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: K back in the day. They did Attack of the 289 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: Killer Shrews. Terrible black and white movie. But I think 290 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 1: it was like dogs with carpet draped over them. Yeah, 291 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,440 Speaker 1: but fun in a way because I think they tried so. Basically, 292 00:15:56,400 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: the situation was, hey, shrews are these ravenous creek tres, 293 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 1: but thankfully they're small. If they ever got big, they 294 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: would be the most dangerous predator on the planet. And 295 00:16:05,760 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 1: then love and behold that's what happens in this movie. Oh, 296 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 1: that's a great premise, except it it didn't work. It 297 00:16:11,760 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: doesn't work because if they got bigger, they wouldn't have 298 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: the same surface to volume problem. Yeah but but yeah, 299 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: that that reminded me of of that. I think they 300 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 1: end up like building a tank out of like stuff 301 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,000 Speaker 1: in their cabin too, then survive the trees. It's it's 302 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: a terrible movie, but way better than it should be. 303 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 1: One of the things I remember about it is the 304 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: way that like the dogs that they've got dressed up 305 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: to be the shrews really act like dogs, and you 306 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: just see them kind of like trotting around at people 307 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 1: like dogs do, and it's cute. They're supposed to be 308 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: these menacing monsters, but like they're clearly happy to see 309 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: the people on set. And it's not just that like 310 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: this one species, the pygmy shure of Britain, is is like, 311 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:55,240 Speaker 1: you know, freakish, Like even the common trew needs to 312 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,640 Speaker 1: eat every two to three hours and has to consume 313 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: an average of like of its body weight ere days. 314 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: This is fairly common among very small organisms. They need 315 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: to eat a lot of food relative to their body size, 316 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:10,199 Speaker 1: and again that's just the base metabolic rate. That's not 317 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: to mention other necessary expenditures for say, creatures that engage 318 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: in very energy intensive activities. One great example here is hummingbirds. 319 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:23,040 Speaker 1: So they're very small, they have big thermoregulation requirements, but 320 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:28,160 Speaker 1: they also have huge caloric requirements from physical activity. They've 321 00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: got to stay in the air. I mean, think about 322 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 1: how much energy it takes to keep vehicles in the air. 323 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: Uh So, they use these rapid wing beats that require 324 00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 1: their heart to beat about twelve hundred times a minute, 325 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: maybe like twenty beats per second. Sometimes that's that's a lot. Yeah, yeah, 326 00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,720 Speaker 1: so they do. They are just constantly having to feed, 327 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:47,879 Speaker 1: and then if they can't, if you have it's like 328 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:52,119 Speaker 1: I imagine most if you have seen the various documentaries 329 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:53,679 Speaker 1: that show how the like. In some cases they'll just 330 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:55,520 Speaker 1: have to shut their bodies down. They have to go 331 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,240 Speaker 1: in a kind of suspended animation at times. But on 332 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,960 Speaker 1: an average day, a hummingbird will often have to eat 333 00:18:02,040 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 1: roughly twice its body weight and nectar. Uh So, I 334 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 1: was trying to think would hobbits have any such requirements 335 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: based on activity? You can see why having smaller bodies 336 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 1: that have a higher surface area of volume ratio. Okay, 337 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 1: but I can't really think of any activities that are 338 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,600 Speaker 1: along the lines of the hummingbirds. I'm not sure how 339 00:18:20,680 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 1: much energy it takes to smoke pipeweed or to like 340 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: eat tea cakes and gossip about other families. But maybe 341 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 1: there's something going on there. I wonder if blowing rings 342 00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: of pipe weed smoke might actually be a highly energy 343 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,000 Speaker 1: intensive activity. Well, some of them are farmers, you do 344 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: remember farmer maggot. Okay, so that's a lot of work. 345 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:39,400 Speaker 1: A lot of work goes into that. And then there 346 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: there are at least tales of of warring Hobbits in 347 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,280 Speaker 1: the past. Which one it was that is said to 348 00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:48,399 Speaker 1: have actually ridden a horse and battle to Goblin and 349 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:52,480 Speaker 1: in a pass skirmish. So there are exceptions, but for 350 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:56,040 Speaker 1: the most part, the typical hobbit life that when visions 351 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,840 Speaker 1: does entail a lot of sitting around and reflecting. I 352 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 1: guess another option is, what if there's something going on 353 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 1: in the hobbit brain that makes their their nervous system 354 00:19:04,119 --> 00:19:09,080 Speaker 1: very energy intensive. Yeah, so maybe they're like secret ment 355 00:19:09,119 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: ats like the hobbit. The fact that they can you know, 356 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,439 Speaker 1: remember so much gossip about the other families in the shire. 357 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:18,439 Speaker 1: Or maybe it takes a huge amount of mental energy 358 00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:23,080 Speaker 1: to constantly resist the call to adventure. Yeah, or they 359 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: they do worry a lot, like what what if they're 360 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: they're high energy cognitive powers are used exclusively to worrying 361 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:31,920 Speaker 1: about where their next meal is going to come from? 362 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: And and uh and and how tiresome the journey is. Alright, 363 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:37,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna take a break, but when we come back, 364 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: we're going to continue this discussion and we're gonna start 365 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:46,880 Speaker 1: talking about some some elven bread. Than alright, we're back. 366 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:50,679 Speaker 1: So there's an interesting follow up to this article we 367 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 1: were talking about with the base metabolic rate. Again, that 368 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,200 Speaker 1: was from the author's Chris Show amount of Horran and 369 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 1: sky Rosetti. Well, they followed it up with another paper 370 00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: simply walking into more door. How much limbus would the 371 00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:08,000 Speaker 1: Fellowship have needed? So Limbus, as you might remember, is 372 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: the special travel bread of the elves that helps sustain 373 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,679 Speaker 1: our adventurers. It's wrapped in leaves. It's brown on the 374 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: outside and sweet and white on the inside, and it 375 00:20:17,359 --> 00:20:20,159 Speaker 1: and it never spoils. It's just always perfect. And I 376 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,040 Speaker 1: don't know, maybe even a little bit warm. It's Galadriel 377 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: that gives them the limbus, right, I think so, And yeah, 378 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 1: it's it's supposed to be great stuff. I aways imagine 379 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:32,040 Speaker 1: it is being like a scone, you know, like a 380 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: really good scone. Like they're just living exclusively off scones 381 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 1: on this journey. So it becomes one of the key 382 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: provisions that they eat a lot on these on the 383 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: journey and the Lord of the Rings, so naturally the 384 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,440 Speaker 1: authors wanted to know how much of this one would 385 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,280 Speaker 1: need to sustain all nine members of the Fellowship of 386 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: the Ring on a ninety two day quest across the continent. Well, 387 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: they concluded that a single Hobbit would require seventy six 388 00:20:57,480 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 1: pieces of Elvin limbus bread to march all the way 389 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: to Mount Doom. That amount, that's seventy six pieces of 390 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: limbus compared with ninety nine for a dwarf, sixty for 391 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,919 Speaker 1: an elf in seventy one for humans. As such, the 392 00:21:12,040 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: nine members of the Fellowship of the Ring, they concluded, 393 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: would require six hundred and seventy five pieces of limbus, 394 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: with three hundred and four pieces allotted to the four 395 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: Hobbit members. Uh Gimili alone would need ninety nine pieces 396 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,520 Speaker 1: of limbus. Well, now I know they didn't get that 397 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: much limbus. I think they would have said something. I 398 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:32,640 Speaker 1: remember they talked about how you know, you eat one 399 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,800 Speaker 1: bite of limbus in your full for you know a while. Yeah, 400 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,399 Speaker 1: that's the other thing it is. It is magic, and 401 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:42,160 Speaker 1: that that's the underlying footnote on all of these discussions. Right. Uh, 402 00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: it is ultimately magical bread and so forth. Therefore it 403 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: has its own rules. But still it's it's this. It's 404 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,359 Speaker 1: a neat it's a neat consideration here. Now, of course 405 00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: it's probably a little bit dry. I always imagine it 406 00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,399 Speaker 1: being a little dry, So you're gonna need something to 407 00:21:56,400 --> 00:21:58,639 Speaker 1: wash it all down with. You're gonna need some some water. 408 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,160 Speaker 1: And here, according to yet another paper, this time from 409 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,840 Speaker 1: Catherine Barrage, the conclusion is that they wouldn't have been 410 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: able to carry all of their water with them on 411 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: the journey. She points out that there's no agreed upon 412 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,400 Speaker 1: method to calculate water requirements for adult humans, but surface 413 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:19,680 Speaker 1: area of the individual is typically invoked, and she concludes 414 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: that one hobbit would have would have required two point 415 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: four leaders per day. And when you extrapolate that to 416 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,359 Speaker 1: all the days of the journey, you're encountering an amount 417 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,760 Speaker 1: of water that would be impossible for a Hobbit to 418 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: carry for itself. Now you, aside from Sam mentioning some 419 00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:39,840 Speaker 1: concern over water on their travels, I don't remember them 420 00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:44,200 Speaker 1: really detailing a lot of their woes. Getting potable water 421 00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:46,720 Speaker 1: is good because I guess surely there would have been 422 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: some other ways to get drinking water on the way, 423 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 1: like when they visited this place or another, Occasionally there's 424 00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:55,159 Speaker 1: going to be a stream of of moving water that 425 00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: they can trust. I don't recall them ever being concerned 426 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,159 Speaker 1: about like getting giardia from drinking water out of the 427 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: stream or something. Yeah, it would have been a different 428 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 1: book of all the Hobbits just constantly had dysenteria the 429 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 1: whole way to Mortal Lord of the Diarrhea. Okay, so 430 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,640 Speaker 1: here's a Here's here's another fun wrinkle in all of this. 431 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 1: Token rights meals didn't come quite as often as Bilbo 432 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: would have liked them, but still he began to feel 433 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: that adventures were not so bad after all. So Bilbo 434 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,560 Speaker 1: continually complains about being hungry and tired, but he makes do, 435 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 1: and he digs into a wide variety of foods during 436 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,760 Speaker 1: the journey. Uh. This is this is one of the 437 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: pleasures of a lot of books, really, but especially in 438 00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 1: the Hobbit. It's like all these foods that he encountered, 439 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 1: they're not that diverse, but there, but every he eats 440 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:41,800 Speaker 1: a lot of interesting things, you know, like they meet 441 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,200 Speaker 1: up with a vegetarian wear bear and he serves them 442 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: cream and honey, you know, yeah, yeah, or um you know, 443 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,359 Speaker 1: or there, or they're scavenging sorrel and berries in the 444 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:55,960 Speaker 1: mountain wilds and then making do with that, you know. 445 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 1: So he may have wanted bacon and eggs and mushrooms 446 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: like any normal Hobbit, of of taste and means, but 447 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,960 Speaker 1: means of course, but he was able to get by 448 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:09,240 Speaker 1: on all of these various foods. So I think we 449 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:12,080 Speaker 1: can conclude from that possibly that you know, Hobbits, like 450 00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:16,760 Speaker 1: other highly adaptive organisms, benefit from a varied omnivorous diet. 451 00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: So even though they require quite a few calories, they're 452 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 1: able to get them in a variety of ways. I'm 453 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 1: reminded of the primal state to which we see the 454 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 1: Hobbit Snegel reduced in Lord of the Rings sneegel like 455 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:36,359 Speaker 1: a gollum. You know, he's the sneaky, opportunistic creature that 456 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: hunts that scavenge scavenges. He'll eat anything he can get 457 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: his hands on, even though he prefers meat. Yeah, he'll well, 458 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: he likes fish. He in the movies at least I 459 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:48,280 Speaker 1: don't recall the scene in the books, but he uh 460 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: you know what's taters precious. He does not seem to 461 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,320 Speaker 1: be a fan of the carbs. He could be what 462 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: happens to a hobbit on the paleo diet. Yeah, of course, 463 00:24:57,480 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: of course. One thing we have to remember about about 464 00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: Sneckel is that he's been living underground for a long 465 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,760 Speaker 1: time and he's basically evolved into this more subterranean form, 466 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: and he's eating he has the sort of diet you 467 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 1: would expect from like a mostly subterranean creature, Like he's 468 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: having to eat just a bunch of fish, uh, you know, 469 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 1: ioas fish whatever you can find, the occasional goblin that 470 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,080 Speaker 1: he can murder in a passageway. But he does have 471 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 1: that beach bod is very skinny relative to the other hobbits. 472 00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: It's true, he's in some ways, he's in better shape um, 473 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,000 Speaker 1: and of course he has this one fitness secret that 474 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 1: drives people crazy. And then of course it's the One Ring, right, Yeah, 475 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 1: nutritionists hate him. Click here to find his one secret. Yeah, 476 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 1: it's It's often overlooked the fitness advantages of the of 477 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,240 Speaker 1: the One Ring and the various rings of power, because 478 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,040 Speaker 1: the Nascal we're all in pretty good shape as well, 479 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,640 Speaker 1: you know, regardless of their they're possibly you know, incorporeal 480 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 1: form and unliving status and soulless nature. Now to speak 481 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,000 Speaker 1: more about the biological effects of the One Ring, that 482 00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: reminds me I was thinking about how the Hobbit fits 483 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: into theories about basal metabolic rate versus lifespan, because we 484 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,720 Speaker 1: know the Ring does something to lifespan. Hobbits live a 485 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,760 Speaker 1: long time, Bilbo Baggins live to the old age of 486 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 1: a hundred and thirty one, but that is apparently due 487 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,240 Speaker 1: to the unnatural life extending powers of the One Ring. Right, 488 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: That's one of the things the Ring supposedly does. It 489 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: helps you live a long time or maybe even indefinitely. 490 00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 1: If you never lose it, though that your life becomes 491 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 1: reduced to a hollow echo of what it once was. Right, 492 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: And as we mentioned in the last episode about the Ring, 493 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 1: the ring will lose you if it no longer needs you, 494 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 1: So basically it just has the option of keeping its 495 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: host alive for an extended period of time if it 496 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:45,119 Speaker 1: if it aids the ring right. But even without the Ring, 497 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 1: Hobbits seem to live for a long time. The ringless 498 00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,919 Speaker 1: Hobbit old Took live to the ripe old age of 499 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,520 Speaker 1: a hundred and thirty, just one year less than Bilbo, 500 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: without any kind of special magic that we know of. 501 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,640 Speaker 1: Apparently it's normal for Hobbits to live to about hundred 502 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 1: uh if if the Hobbit were a real species on Earth, 503 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,680 Speaker 1: that would be towards the longest end of the lifespan spectrum. 504 00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:10,080 Speaker 1: I think it said at some point in Lord of 505 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,439 Speaker 1: the Rings that Hobbits tend to come of age in 506 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,879 Speaker 1: their thirties. So you might say that, I don't know 507 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,880 Speaker 1: what that that's like puberty or something for Hobbits. So 508 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 1: so not just like actually get their life together in 509 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 1: their theorties, it actually like go through puberty at that point. Well, 510 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 1: I I don't know. I mean, he doesn't say puberty, 511 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,520 Speaker 1: that's when they come of age. I assume that's what 512 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: that means there's something like the tweens of the Hobbit 513 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,640 Speaker 1: world are in their twenties probably, But the long lifespan 514 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: of Hobbits is another place where you might look at 515 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,359 Speaker 1: the Hobbit and say, Okay, this seems to conflict with 516 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,920 Speaker 1: stuff we know about Earth biology, because when you look 517 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,440 Speaker 1: at the animals on Earth, especially you look at the mammals, 518 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 1: it can certainly seem like the longest lived animals tend 519 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 1: to be large and the small ones tend to have 520 00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: short lives. Like you know, mice and rats can live 521 00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,640 Speaker 1: for just a couple of years, Whales can live for 522 00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 1: a very very long time. If you expand that to 523 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,160 Speaker 1: vertebrates more generally, you know, I think the longest lived 524 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,120 Speaker 1: vertebrate that I know of is the greenland shark, which 525 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,840 Speaker 1: can live hundreds of years. Four hundred years I think 526 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,800 Speaker 1: was an estimate on on one recently. Yeah, but it 527 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,160 Speaker 1: tends to be a little bit larger. In the twentieth century, actually, 528 00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: there was a popular theory in biology that made this connection. 529 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:29,439 Speaker 1: It connected aging and lifespan to metabolism. Uh. It was 530 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: known as the rate of living theory, and essentially it 531 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,760 Speaker 1: said that animals with a slower metabolism that burn energy 532 00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:41,320 Speaker 1: more slowly will tend to live longer because expending energy 533 00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 1: literally ages you. Uh, So animals with higher dietary requirements, 534 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:51,840 Speaker 1: faster heart rates, faster metabolism, etcetera, will have shorter lives 535 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,400 Speaker 1: under this hypothesis. There are even some humans who who 536 00:28:55,520 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: seem to at least intuitively believe some version of this theory. Yes, 537 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:04,520 Speaker 1: I've I have seen them quoted on this indeed. But 538 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,720 Speaker 1: but a side effect of this, of course would be 539 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: the animals with smaller bodies, because they tend to have 540 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: faster metabolisms like we were talking about earlier, will also 541 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:16,200 Speaker 1: on average have shorter lives, and so at a glance, 542 00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: that does seem to line up with the animal world. Right. So, 543 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 1: this theory, first proposed in the early nineteen twenties, is 544 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: often associated primarily with early work done by an American 545 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 1: biologist named Raymond Pearl, and it really did seem plausible 546 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:33,400 Speaker 1: for a while, but eventually it was undercut by evidence. 547 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: So you had early studies of animal lifespans that sort 548 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: of seemed to support it, but then later studies with 549 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,640 Speaker 1: more detailed data sets and better analysis didn't actually find 550 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:49,240 Speaker 1: a broad correlation between metabolism and lifespan. For example, birds 551 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:52,720 Speaker 1: tend to have higher metabolisms than than mammals of about 552 00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:55,720 Speaker 1: the same size, yet on average, the birds tend to 553 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:58,440 Speaker 1: live longer. So even though we can find a lot 554 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:01,560 Speaker 1: of examples of smaller animals that have short lives and 555 00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: larger animals that have long lives, it turns out the 556 00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: correlation doesn't hold up. The better your analysis is, I 557 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: was reading about another study that undercut the rate of 558 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: living hypothesis by looking at metabolic manipulations within the same species. 559 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,280 Speaker 1: So the very short version is you have rats in 560 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,640 Speaker 1: two different conditions. One set of rats lives in a 561 00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: world of twenty two degrees celsius or seventy one degrees fahrenheit, 562 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 1: the nice warm world, and then there's another group of 563 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:33,480 Speaker 1: rats that lives at ten degrees celsius or fifty degrees fahrenheit. 564 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,200 Speaker 1: So obviously the group living in colder conditions has to 565 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: burn more energy to maintain body temperature, so by rate 566 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: of living logic, you would expect them to die younger, 567 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,240 Speaker 1: but they didn't. The study found that the the rodents 568 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,560 Speaker 1: and the two conditions lived the same average lifespan, so 569 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: the rate of living hypothesis is no longer thought to 570 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,240 Speaker 1: be correct, and it represents no threat whatsoever to the 571 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:01,120 Speaker 1: plausibility of Hobbits. Excellent. All right, On that note, we're 572 00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 1: going to take one more break and hopefully they'll be 573 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,160 Speaker 1: an ad for Limbus in here. We've been trying to 574 00:31:05,160 --> 00:31:08,320 Speaker 1: get Limbus as a sponsor for a while, but we'll 575 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: see how it goes. Anyway, one more break and then 576 00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:16,640 Speaker 1: we'll be right back. Alright, we're back. You know what's 577 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,080 Speaker 1: great is dipping your limbus in a nice bowl of 578 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: brown Yeah. I don't know. I always figured it was 579 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:26,960 Speaker 1: it's just dessert, Like it's dessert all the time. Maybe 580 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: they just well that I read it originally as a kid, 581 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: so at the time, I'm like, yeah, it's like this, 582 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:35,400 Speaker 1: it's like short bread all day, every day. Ever been 583 00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:39,600 Speaker 1: into short bread? I don't even like it as dessert. Uh, well, 584 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 1: you know, you're not a Hobbit. They maybe they're more 585 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,480 Speaker 1: into it, or elves. Maybe the elves themselves have, you know, 586 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 1: different tolerance for sweets. What's the Middle Earth species that 587 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: really likes like pickles? That's that's I think it's probably Hobbits. Again, 588 00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,000 Speaker 1: I feel like Hobbits can be totally into pickles. I 589 00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: don't remember specifically if if there was ever mentioned of 590 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: hobbit seating pickles, but I bet they like pickles. Dude, 591 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 1: you should try dwarf and century eggs, all right. So, 592 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,720 Speaker 1: if we're to entertain the idea that Hobbits as a 593 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,640 Speaker 1: species factor so heavily into the struggle for Middle Earth, 594 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: based in part on their biology, it raises this question 595 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:22,160 Speaker 1: how suited are the various other species or or races 596 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: as they're sometimes called, especially due to you know, this 597 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:27,959 Speaker 1: is another fantasy as well, Like in Dungeons and Dragons, 598 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:30,040 Speaker 1: you talk about the different races even though you're essentially 599 00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: talking about different species. Um So, so you know, how 600 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: do these other various species stack up in the struggle 601 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 1: for global dominance just based on their biology? And it's 602 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:44,120 Speaker 1: interesting to think about this because while Homo sapiens came 603 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:47,360 Speaker 1: into contact with the likes of the Neanderthals, Middle Earth 604 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: is an entirely different situation because you have multiple species 605 00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: of similar cognitive and technological abilities coming into contact with 606 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,320 Speaker 1: each other, warring against each other, forming factions, and and 607 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,320 Speaker 1: granted some of the players involved, our magical beings others 608 00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:06,240 Speaker 1: are artificial creations, and others still or essentially demigods. But 609 00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: we're we're talking a world full of humans, elves, dwarfs, hobbits, goblins, orcs, trolls, giants, dragons, 610 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,840 Speaker 1: and then various animals with human level intelligence such as 611 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: the eagles, just to name a few. The deciding factor, however, 612 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,240 Speaker 1: might just come down to sunlight, what which which? Isn't 613 00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:29,840 Speaker 1: that surprising, right, because sunlight is good, darkness bad. This 614 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 1: is the basic dichotomy of of our of our fantasy 615 00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: and our myth make But but, but let's think back 616 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:42,360 Speaker 1: to the hobbits omnivorous diet and its subterranean tendencies, because 617 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:44,440 Speaker 1: I want to talk about briefly about a fun little 618 00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: paper that you can find in full in PDF form 619 00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 1: on online if you want to read it for yourself, 620 00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: by Dr Joseph A. Hopkinson and and his son Nicholas S. 621 00:33:55,120 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: Hopkinson uh and. This was published in the Medical Journal 622 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 1: of Australia paper The hobbit An Unexpected Deficiency and uh 623 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:09,040 Speaker 1: And what they end up arguing is that their very diet, 624 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 1: the very diet of the hobbit um, would be key 625 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:17,319 Speaker 1: to elevating their vitamin D levels. So vitamin D, as 626 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:19,760 Speaker 1: I think we've discussed on the show before, is crucial 627 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: for skeletal health and the immune system, with deficiency symptoms 628 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:29,759 Speaker 1: ranging from stuff like depression and weakness to increased bone fragility. Uh, 629 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:33,239 Speaker 1: none of those are things you want while adventuring on 630 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 1: a great quest to save the world, right or to 631 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: conquer it. Either way, you want to want to look 632 00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:39,919 Speaker 1: at it. You don't want to be depressed and weak 633 00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 1: and possibly more susceptible to bone breaks. Now a note here, 634 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: oily fish are a great place to get your vitamin 635 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: D if you're not getting it from the sun. So 636 00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:54,120 Speaker 1: advantage to sniegel here. Oh that's right, he loves them wriggling. Yeah, 637 00:34:54,160 --> 00:34:57,280 Speaker 1: but I don't know, do we see him eating oily fish? 638 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: Is he getting start to I don't know how oily 639 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,759 Speaker 1: the subterranean fish of the Misty Mountains happened to be. 640 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: But but maybe he's getting the occasional like ten of 641 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:14,319 Speaker 1: sardines from the goblins anyway. Uh, he loves a good 642 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: mahi mahi. So anyway, Bilbo's diverse diet and willingness to 643 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: travel long distances in the sun, according to the Hopkinson's 644 00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: not only boost his vitamin D intake, but also makes 645 00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:32,880 Speaker 1: the Hobbit species one of Middle Earth's top vitamin D consumers. 646 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,279 Speaker 1: So they assigned major Middle Earth species and individuals a 647 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:41,279 Speaker 1: vitamin D score between zero and four. Hobbits, men, and 648 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,080 Speaker 1: high elves they topped the list that they get fours 649 00:35:44,120 --> 00:35:48,239 Speaker 1: across the board. Dwarves scored to three gallum score or 650 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,680 Speaker 1: Sniegel scored a lowly one. And then the evil species 651 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,480 Speaker 1: of Middle Earth, the dragons, the goblins, and the trolls, 652 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 1: and I'm assuming they're they're they're putting the works in 653 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,279 Speaker 1: with the goblins here since they're essentially the same species. 654 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,320 Speaker 1: All of them scored zeros. Right, because these are basically 655 00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,320 Speaker 1: entirely indoor underground species right right, or they live in 656 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,880 Speaker 1: in darkness and read I mean more door itself. Right 657 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:13,360 Speaker 1: is is often depicted and described as being like clothed, 658 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,480 Speaker 1: you know, shielded from the sun by the volcanic ashes 659 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,440 Speaker 1: of Mount Doom. Right, it is a realm of darkness. Yeah, 660 00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 1: I know Tolkien said that he did not write these 661 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: books as allegory, but yeah, I wonder if where was 662 00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: he really just trying to get his kids to go outside. 663 00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:31,760 Speaker 1: It's like you know, you live your whole life inside 664 00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,560 Speaker 1: you become a bad goblin like me. Well yeah, I 665 00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:36,880 Speaker 1: mean it's I mean that critique has been applied to 666 00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: his work before. Right. The idea that like Mordor is 667 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: industrialism and uh and modernity and and the shire is 668 00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:46,320 Speaker 1: the you know, is that the rural countryside in traditional 669 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:51,880 Speaker 1: ways of England. Right, So anyway, moral attributes and marshall 670 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: prowess are also going to play a factor, they argue. 671 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:57,239 Speaker 1: But they think that vitamin D consumption might be a 672 00:36:57,320 --> 00:37:01,840 Speaker 1: key predictor for victory in mid Earth and uh. And 673 00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 1: it's worth noting that Dr Hopkinson uh knew what he 674 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:06,680 Speaker 1: knows what he's talking about with vitamin D. He previously 675 00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,560 Speaker 1: studied the effects of vitamin D and people with lung disease. 676 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,840 Speaker 1: As a result, he's not a fan of all the 677 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 1: smoking that goes on, especially with the Hobbits and the 678 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:21,080 Speaker 1: wizarding folk like Gandalf. Uh that would not be be 679 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,040 Speaker 1: good for their overall health. But still no, wait a minute, 680 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: I was reading. According to Sauron, uh, smoking has not 681 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: been definitively linked with any negative health effects. Oh yeah, yeah, 682 00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,480 Speaker 1: if you can trust Sauron on that one, um so anyway, 683 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,319 Speaker 1: the lie? Why would he lie? It's a great deceiver, right, 684 00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 1: You're forgetting his prior forms. You're only thinking about the 685 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:44,759 Speaker 1: all seeing eye, and you think that just because he 686 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: has an all seeing eye, he's privy to all truth. 687 00:37:47,520 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: But he's still a liar. Worm Tongue said it too, 688 00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 1: He said that this is anti pipeweed alarmism. Alright, So 689 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 1: taking all of this into account, we can look at 690 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,359 Speaker 1: the Hobbit and we say the Hobbit ultimately offers us 691 00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: a high metabolism creature with a very diet able to 692 00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 1: march across Middle Earths varied ecosystems and eat whatever they 693 00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:09,480 Speaker 1: can find within, you know, reason, in order to maintain 694 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 1: their vitamin D levels and therefore contribute to the victory 695 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:17,840 Speaker 1: of good over evil in Middle Earth. I buy it now, Robert. 696 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:20,520 Speaker 1: I've got to ask what what got you looking for 697 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:23,680 Speaker 1: Hobbit papers? I know somehow you must have set out 698 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,200 Speaker 1: on this journey. Well this, this happens a lot where 699 00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 1: something will enter my head and I'll think, well, let's 700 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:31,839 Speaker 1: see if their papers about the Lord of the Rings. 701 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:34,520 Speaker 1: Let's see if people are mentioning, you know, because sometimes 702 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: it's you'll find examples where where authors of even very 703 00:38:39,200 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: very serious uh scientific papers will just at least for 704 00:38:42,719 --> 00:38:45,879 Speaker 1: fun reference, say a particular myth or a particular uh 705 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,400 Speaker 1: you know, the line from Shakespeare. So sometimes you have 706 00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: like that level of treatment or it's a pun in 707 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 1: the title of that's frequently used in the title of 708 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: a scientific study. But but then you have these this 709 00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,719 Speaker 1: level of study as well, which which I think is great. 710 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:01,959 Speaker 1: You know, again, very tongue in cheek. All of these 711 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:04,920 Speaker 1: were written at least in part to entertain uh. And 712 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,919 Speaker 1: the vitamin D paper specific especially has like a fun 713 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,200 Speaker 1: little illustration in it as well, so it was very 714 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,040 Speaker 1: much I think it was part of like a Christmas 715 00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 1: uh special that they put out where they have a 716 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,839 Speaker 1: lot of tongue in cheap papers. Uh. But it's it's 717 00:39:17,880 --> 00:39:20,120 Speaker 1: also I think these are all fun because, especially for 718 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 1: a show like ours, we might normally not really discuss 719 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 1: vitamin D deficiency on the show at length, but this 720 00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,759 Speaker 1: gives us a reason to get into it and and 721 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,000 Speaker 1: kind of an angle that makes it more interesting than 722 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: it might otherwise be. And and it's of course it's 723 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,320 Speaker 1: a it's an important topic as well, right because it 724 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 1: comes down to human health. Like one of the one 725 00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,840 Speaker 1: of the things that the Hopkinson's arguing in their paper 726 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:45,960 Speaker 1: is that, you know, ultimately, if we're to draw some 727 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:48,239 Speaker 1: sort of conclusion from all of this, it's that we 728 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,839 Speaker 1: all need to consider having a more very diet and 729 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,600 Speaker 1: uh getting out in the sun, um, you know, with 730 00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,279 Speaker 1: proper protection of course, if concerning the rays of the sun, 731 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 1: but you know, get your vitamin D, have a very 732 00:40:00,800 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 1: diet and stay active and it's going to benefit you. 733 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 1: And also stay away from that those hobbit pipes and 734 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,200 Speaker 1: those wizarding pipes because it's no good for you. But 735 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:11,480 Speaker 1: this is just one This is just one angle on 736 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 1: Middle Earth and science. I'm sure there are numerous other 737 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: articles out there that that that go after a different 738 00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:20,680 Speaker 1: angle of Tolkien's work and work some science on it. 739 00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 1: So maybe we'll be able to come back in a 740 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:24,919 Speaker 1: future episode and discuss some other corner of Middle Earth. 741 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:26,920 Speaker 1: I had the idea that we could do an episode 742 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,319 Speaker 1: about inns. I'm not sure what we we'd figure it out. 743 00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:33,439 Speaker 1: We have to play the episode at half speed. Unfortunately, 744 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,840 Speaker 1: we could totally do an episode on it's getting into 745 00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:39,080 Speaker 1: the like the movements of plants and uh uh you know, 746 00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,759 Speaker 1: trees that quote unquote walk uh. I mean there are 747 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,759 Speaker 1: examples that are that are pretty fascinating and and really 748 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 1: when you start, when you essentially consider that that plants 749 00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,239 Speaker 1: are are living at this different time frame than this 750 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,960 Speaker 1: different rate than animals. You know, when you start, you know, 751 00:40:57,000 --> 00:41:00,560 Speaker 1: speeding things up, you you see some amazing movements on 752 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:04,880 Speaker 1: the part of of trees and vines and so forth. 753 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:06,920 Speaker 1: So I think there would be something to discuss with 754 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:08,520 Speaker 1: INNS if we wanted to come back to that, or 755 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,800 Speaker 1: or getting into the whole in in a way we 756 00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 1: wouldn't wave. We wouldn't want to cover this in an 757 00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,800 Speaker 1: episode on NS. This really deserves its own episode. But 758 00:41:14,840 --> 00:41:19,040 Speaker 1: just the idea of plant intelligence, plant communication, there's some 759 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:24,600 Speaker 1: pretty fascinating theories out there, especially on plant communication. That's 760 00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 1: a that is a topic I'd like to come back to. 761 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,240 Speaker 1: You know, I've thought before like what types of plants 762 00:41:29,239 --> 00:41:32,399 Speaker 1: would evolve intelligence if they ever did, And I think 763 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:34,920 Speaker 1: maybe it would have to be carnivorous plants, right like 764 00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:39,400 Speaker 1: venus fly traps, because they'd have they have a movement mechanism. 765 00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,319 Speaker 1: The movement mechanism is something that could be exploited over 766 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,680 Speaker 1: time and evolution as a manipulation mechanism, which in turn 767 00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:51,399 Speaker 1: maybe prioritizes UH strategies for manipulation of objects. Yeah. There, 768 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,480 Speaker 1: you basically rights itself. You'll have to come back and 769 00:41:53,480 --> 00:41:56,520 Speaker 1: talk about inns sometime, all right. In the meantime, if 770 00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:58,360 Speaker 1: you want to check out other episodes of Stuff to 771 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,239 Speaker 1: Blow your Mind, we recommend do so. Again. We did 772 00:42:01,239 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 1: a previous episode titled The One Ring that gets into 773 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,960 Speaker 1: metallurgy and what, basically asking the question what could the 774 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:11,399 Speaker 1: One Ring have potentially been made of if it were 775 00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:13,680 Speaker 1: to have the various attributes that are described in the 776 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,600 Speaker 1: books and the films. UH. It's a fun, a fun 777 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:19,759 Speaker 1: back and forth, So check that one out if you want. 778 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:21,840 Speaker 1: If you want to find that episode, or any episode, 779 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:23,040 Speaker 1: you can go to stuff to Blow your Mind dot 780 00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:24,360 Speaker 1: com and that will shoot you over to the I 781 00:42:24,480 --> 00:42:26,320 Speaker 1: heart listing for our show. But you can find Stuff 782 00:42:26,360 --> 00:42:28,680 Speaker 1: to Blow your Mind wherever you get your podcasts, wherever 783 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,200 Speaker 1: that happens to be. Just make sure you rate, review, 784 00:42:31,239 --> 00:42:34,320 Speaker 1: and subscribe. Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio 785 00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:36,920 Speaker 1: producers Seth Nicholas Johnson. If you would like to get 786 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 1: in touch with us with feedback on this episode or 787 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:41,480 Speaker 1: any other to suggest topic for the future, just to 788 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,640 Speaker 1: say hi. You can email us at contact at Stuff 789 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 1: to Blow Your Mind dot com. Stuff to Blow Your Mind. 790 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,239 Speaker 1: It's production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for 791 00:42:57,320 --> 00:43:00,360 Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple pod casts, 792 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:14,400 Speaker 1: or wherever you're listening to your favorite shows.