Speaker 1: Hike and everybody on Dan Horde and this is the
Speaker 1: Bengals Booth podcast, there must be some misunderstanding. Addition, as
Speaker 1: we look ahead to Sunday's game against the Patriots at
Speaker 1: Paul Brown Stadium, a matchup surrounded with controversy due to
Speaker 1: New England's admitted violation of an NFL rule involving a
Speaker 1: videographer with Patriots ties, Dave Lapham, and I will weigh
Speaker 1: in on the latest Bengals topics, including the team's red
Speaker 1: zone woes, the late season surge of Joe Mixon, and
Speaker 1: two of the game's all time grades who are coming
Speaker 1: to town on Sunday, Bill Belichick and Tom Brady. My
Speaker 1: locker room conversation this week is with defensive end Carl Lawson,
Speaker 1: who says, quote that sacking Tom Brady is an all
Speaker 1: time dream of mine. He'll get a chance on Sunday.
Speaker 1: And in this week's Know the Faux segment, we'll get
Speaker 1: the low down on the Patriots from the radio play
Speaker 1: by play announcer Bob Socie, who, like me, used to
Speaker 1: call baseball games for the minor league Patucket Red Sox.
Speaker 1: All of that is straight ahead, but first, here's a
Speaker 1: quick reminder that you can have the latest edition of
Speaker 1: this podcast delivered right to your phone, tablet, or computer
Speaker 1: by subscribing on iTunes, Stitcher, Google Play, Spotify, or pod Bean.
Speaker 1: It's the greatest thing since Greaters. I had the unique
Speaker 1: privilege of going on a behind the scenes tour of
Speaker 1: Greater's ice cream factory this week. In celebration of the
Speaker 1: University of Cincinnati's two hundredth anniversary, Greaters will release a
Speaker 1: limited edition flavor in January called Boldly Bearcat. It includes
Speaker 1: red velvet oreos, chocolate chips, and a sweet cream bass.
Speaker 1: I got to see and taste the magic that goes
Speaker 1: into making Greater's ice cream, and the attention to detail
Speaker 1: is amazing. Every pint is truly handcrafted. When it comes
Speaker 1: to ice cream, there is nothing greater than Greaters. Now
Speaker 1: let's get to football. The Bengals host the defending Super
Speaker 1: Bowl champion Patriots this Sunday, and the big storylines this
Speaker 1: week could have been the likelihood that Tom Brady is
Speaker 1: coming to Cincinnati for the final time, or the mutual
Speaker 1: respect between Bill Belichick and the Brown family, But instead,
Speaker 1: both cities have been focused on a controversy that erupted
Speaker 1: last Sunday in Cleveland, when a videographer with Patriots ties
Speaker 1: was caught shooting footage of the Bengals coaching staff on
Speaker 1: the sideline that is against NFL rules. My broadcast partner
Speaker 1: Dave Lapham caught wind of it and asked Zach Taylor
Speaker 1: to comment. At a Monday news conference, the Bengals head
Speaker 1: coach acknowledged that he was aware of an NFL investigation
Speaker 1: into the incident, but had no additional comment. The Patriots
Speaker 1: eventually admitted breaking the rule, but said it was an
Speaker 1: innocent mistake. Who you believe might come down to which
Speaker 1: team you root for. At this point, there's not much
Speaker 1: more to say, at least until the NFL issues are ruling.
Speaker 1: So lap and I stuck to football. Let's talk about
Speaker 1: the Bengals red zone woes last week. Hindsight is always
Speaker 1: twenty twenty. But when you look back at a first
Speaker 1: in goal from the two where you didn't score a
Speaker 1: touchdown and you didn't get the ball to number twenty eight,
Speaker 1: do you think the coaches are saying, man, we should
Speaker 1: have taken our chances with Joe Mixon. You know, like
Speaker 1: you said, hindsight twenty twenty. Pete Carroll is probably thinking
Speaker 1: the same thing to this day with beast mode. Marshawn Lynch,
Speaker 1: do you know, give a beast mode to football and
Speaker 1: don't throw the interception and beat the Patriots? I think
Speaker 1: you got it, And he admitted freely that yep, found
Speaker 1: another opportunity. I'd give it to Marshawn Lynch. I think
Speaker 1: act would do the same thing another opportunity. The only
Speaker 1: thing I can say is third down, they hammering him
Speaker 1: in there, and uh, and didn't get it. Fourth down,
Speaker 1: barely got it. So he's thinking, man, it's tough sledding
Speaker 1: running the football. They're really they're really ganging up on
Speaker 1: us here. Pretty good. Maybe we take the thing we've
Speaker 1: worked on in the red zone, our best pass all
Speaker 1: week long, and we utilize it here from the two
Speaker 1: yard line. It might be the best down to throw
Speaker 1: it on, you know, thinking contrarian, and it didn't work out.
Speaker 1: Cordy Glenn picked that that play to get beaten on,
Speaker 1: and you get beaten for a quarterback sack, and a
Speaker 1: quarterback sack, you know, from the two yard line dictates
Speaker 1: that you throw it the two remaining down. So it
Speaker 1: totally took them out of what they were hoping to do.
Speaker 1: But I just wonder if the difficulty they had. I mean,
Speaker 1: they picked up that fourth down by it by millimeters,
Speaker 1: so you know, maybe they're thinking ease. I'm not sure
Speaker 1: about hammering it up and up there, up in there
Speaker 1: against the wall. But Joe Mixon was probably very frustrated,
Speaker 1: I can tell you the form alignement, very frustrated that
Speaker 1: the coaching staff didn't believe in us enough that we
Speaker 1: could get that done from the two yard line. But
Speaker 1: you didn't show him enough in the sequence earlier. So
Speaker 1: I guess you got nobody to blame but yourself. But yeah,
Speaker 1: long story, short run mixing. Well, speaking of Joe, he
Speaker 1: ran for one hundred and forty six yards last week.
Speaker 1: He can now get to a thousand yards this season
Speaker 1: by averaging seventy yards over the final three games of
Speaker 1: the year. How much different is the Bengals running scheme
Speaker 1: now from what they were doing in the first say
Speaker 1: half of the season. Light years difference. And you know
Speaker 1: they've talked about the trip to London. When they were
Speaker 1: traveling out there and coming back, they talked about changes
Speaker 1: that they wanted to make in Jim Turner was the
Speaker 1: lead force in that area, and they started doing things
Speaker 1: differently to block Aaron Donald, And they started fanning out
Speaker 1: on the backside and polands heightened around to lead up
Speaker 1: on linebackers like we've seen. They started doing those type
Speaker 1: of things. And so now you're you know, you're your
Speaker 1: your man blocking and pulling, and you're I call it
Speaker 1: a pin and pull. You're you're pinning a couple of
Speaker 1: alignment and pulling other people around. Um instead of just
Speaker 1: area blocking. You know, your your two guys, you in
Speaker 1: the center, the garden center are responsible for the defensive
Speaker 1: tackle on the linebacker. However they unfold and the guard
Speaker 1: and then the garden the tackle on the front side
Speaker 1: or responsible for a defensive tackle on a linebacker as well.
Speaker 1: So it's you know, it's it's duo football, two double
Speaker 1: teams working off defensive linement to get to the second level.
Speaker 1: And that wasn't was becoming, you know, pounding against the
Speaker 1: Great Wall of China. Everybody had it figured out. Now
Speaker 1: you're angle blocking, you're pinning people, uh tight ends, wide
Speaker 1: receivers are doing a good job in the edge, pinning
Speaker 1: people lineman or pinning people when they blocked back and
Speaker 1: then pulling people and Trey Hopkins is a very very
Speaker 1: very strong puller at the center position. He played guard.
Speaker 1: He knows how to pull and how to block people.
Speaker 1: And uh, they get good production out of a short
Speaker 1: toss where they pin and pull, you know, and they
Speaker 1: pull Miller and they pull Hopkins left side, they pull
Speaker 1: Jordan and they pull Hopkins, and Joe Mixon reads it
Speaker 1: out very very well and they're doing a good job
Speaker 1: and a lot of times they're you know, they're setting
Speaker 1: the edge, you know, with a pin and getting all
Speaker 1: the way to the outside with Joe Mixon and Dan
Speaker 1: the other thing that it does instead of a defensive
Speaker 1: lineman knowing they're just going to come off and double
Speaker 1: team me. Now I'm getting hit from this side, I'm
Speaker 1: getting hit from that side. They're pulling in front of me.
Speaker 1: I mean, it gives you much more to think about
Speaker 1: and you can't be as as you know, forceful because
Speaker 1: you only have one thing to worry about. Now you
Speaker 1: have to not be as aggressive, and it helps you
Speaker 1: in pass protection helps you in a lot of ways
Speaker 1: if you attack guys from all different angles and they're
Speaker 1: getting hit from everywhere instead of just knowing exactly what's coming.
Speaker 1: John Ross was back last week. He was in for
Speaker 1: roughly half of the offensive snaps. His stats are modest
Speaker 1: to catch his twenty eight yards, but did his presence
Speaker 1: affect the defense and play a big role in the
Speaker 1: Bengals going for a season high four hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: one yards. I think so. I think. I think that
Speaker 1: the very first play was on the field, I wanted
Speaker 1: to see if there was a safety over the top,
Speaker 1: and there was. You know, he had a corner underneath
Speaker 1: safety over the top. So I think honestly, Joe Mixon
Speaker 1: had a career high rushing of one hundred and forty
Speaker 1: six yards. The box wasn't as crowded. Why John Ross
Speaker 1: was back. So it not only helps other receivers, but
Speaker 1: it you know, it gives running lanes inside for Joe Mixon.
Speaker 1: The box gets emptied out a little bit more. You know.
Speaker 1: That's why they were talking about. You know, down there
Speaker 1: at the four yard line, they had played two safeties
Speaker 1: high and they had the box unloaded. There were very
Speaker 1: few people in the box and that's why they went
Speaker 1: with the quarterback draw. You know, it's like, man, all
Speaker 1: we talked about for the first you know, half of
Speaker 1: the season is they were playing in a closet and
Speaker 1: everybody was the line of scrim at seven, eight, even
Speaker 1: nine guys in the box. So I do think I
Speaker 1: do think that John Ross factor was was real, and
Speaker 1: he played maybe half the snaps. I think he played
Speaker 1: like thirty five snaps something like. That's fifty three percent
Speaker 1: of the offense, fifty three percenty offense. And I think
Speaker 1: they had seventy two snaps, so he probably had you know,
Speaker 1: thirty six or seven as thirty seven snaps. Two catches
Speaker 1: for twenty six twenty eight yards, so in one of
Speaker 1: them was a twenty yard or so, he you know,
Speaker 1: didn't have a It wasn't a big oh looking at stats, Wow,
Speaker 1: John Ross had a major impact, but on a snap
Speaker 1: by snap basis, I think his presence benefited others. The
Speaker 1: youngest Bengal Michael Jordan, has taken every snap at left
Speaker 1: guard the last two games. He started four out of
Speaker 1: the first five, then he mostly watched for six. Now
Speaker 1: he's starting again evaluate his rookie season. I think that
Speaker 1: he learned a big lesson because in Pittsburgh the offensive
Speaker 1: line and have a very good game with eight quarterback
Speaker 1: sacks and uh Cameron Hayward, who he was blocking. He
Speaker 1: had two and a half of them, and you know,
Speaker 1: I think he learned a lesson. Cameron Hayward said, welcome
Speaker 1: to the NFL, rookie and uh and took it to him.
Speaker 1: But with that said, he's and he was dinged up
Speaker 1: a little bit. He had a little bit of an
Speaker 1: injury to his legs. So he's recovered from that, and
Speaker 1: he's recovered mentally from what took place. And I credit
Speaker 1: him because you have two choices, roll over and play
Speaker 1: dead or fight back, and he fought back and he's
Speaker 1: played well the last couple of games. Now. He is long, strong,
Speaker 1: he can move when they when he pulls, he can move.
Speaker 1: He's got a big body with big feet, and he
Speaker 1: gets puts, picks him up and puts them down out there.
Speaker 1: I mean, and and the thing that is impressive with
Speaker 1: guys that size going against smaller people, it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: an eighteen wheeler trying to change direction with the maserati
Speaker 1: when you're out there blocking smaller people, and that eighteen
Speaker 1: wheel had changed his direction pretty well. He's got some ability,
Speaker 1: you know, athletic ability in space. So I think he's
Speaker 1: got a bright future. I think, you know, when he
Speaker 1: first started out, I think it was he didn't know
Speaker 1: what he didn't know. Now at least he knows what
Speaker 1: he didn't know, and now he's trying to figure out
Speaker 1: how to understand what he didn't know. And I think
Speaker 1: that's you know, his graph is going up. He's making
Speaker 1: big progress. Another rookie, Jermaine Pratt, was the Bengals leading tackler.
Speaker 1: He had eight tackles, six solos. Is his graph going up?
Speaker 1: Should we should we be optimistic about Jermaine Pratt? I
Speaker 1: think he is improving. The one thing that I've noticed, though,
Speaker 1: is for a guy that played safety and now he's
Speaker 1: getting bigger and gone to linebacker, a lot of times
Speaker 1: when he's in coverage or even trying to make players
Speaker 1: in the running game out in space, he doesn't change
Speaker 1: direction really well. You know, he's a little stiff, you know,
Speaker 1: like he'll take him two or three steps. He'll run
Speaker 1: by running backs that are cutting back or receivers. It's like, well,
Speaker 1: I thought, a guy that you know, had played the
Speaker 1: safety position may have a little bit quicker change of direction,
Speaker 1: a little bit more athletic ability than he's shown. And
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's if it's just, you know,
Speaker 1: he's being overly cautious or I don't know, or if
Speaker 1: physically he just that's not part of his repertoire. So
Speaker 1: we'll have to watch that a little bit more. But
Speaker 1: I do think I do think he's getting better. I
Speaker 1: think repetition breeds comfort level. I think he is seeing
Speaker 1: things a little bit better, and I think he's making
Speaker 1: more plays. But I thought he'd be a little bit
Speaker 1: tighter coverage in space and be able to close on
Speaker 1: people a little bit more athletically than he's shown to
Speaker 1: this point. Maybe that's all going to come though. This
Speaker 1: will be the eighth and possibly last time the Bengals
Speaker 1: ever face Tom Brady. At age forty two, He's six
Speaker 1: and one against the Bengals. It's completed sixty seven percent
Speaker 1: of his passes, fifteen touchdowns, three interceptions, passer rating of
Speaker 1: one oh seven point eight. The last time he came
Speaker 1: to Cincinnati, the Bengals won thirteen to six in the rain,
Speaker 1: but in the other six games against the Bengals of
Speaker 1: the Patriots have scored thirty four or more points in
Speaker 1: every single one. When you watch Tom Brady, what stands
Speaker 1: out everything about him, his poise, his demeanor, his physical
Speaker 1: and mental presence of I'm in complete control. There's nothing
Speaker 1: I haven't seen, There's nothing you can do there's going
Speaker 1: to rattle me. I've seen every defensive concept known to
Speaker 1: man multiple times, and I'm ready. I'm prepared. You're right.
Speaker 1: The last time they were here, there was a you know,
Speaker 1: just a monsoon when they had the football and that
Speaker 1: broke I think it was fifty some odd street games
Speaker 1: where he had a touchdown pass and he that broke
Speaker 1: that streak the last time he was here in Cincinnati.
Speaker 1: So maybe they can hold him without a touchdown pass again.
Speaker 1: You know, But watching him on tape a little bit
Speaker 1: this year, he at forty two. I don't care who
Speaker 1: you are. His skills have diminished. He's not he's still
Speaker 1: a good football player, but he's not what he was physically.
Speaker 1: And he's got Edelman and a bunch of other guys.
Speaker 1: He doesn't have a whole lot of weapons, so physically
Speaker 1: he's not capable of lifting everybody. And now they don't
Speaker 1: have enough weapons to lift him. So he's kind of
Speaker 1: caught in almost the perfect storm. And uh, and they're
Speaker 1: struggling a little bit offensively. They're going to a lot
Speaker 1: of gadget plays, a lot of gimmick plays that are
Speaker 1: Josh mcdannel's doing a great job of calling him and
Speaker 1: calling him at the perfect time. And that's the key,
Speaker 1: is when you call them and and he's doing a
Speaker 1: great job of calling in the Patriots are executing them.
Speaker 1: But Tom Brady is It'd be hard to pick who's
Speaker 1: more competitive, Bill Belichick or Tom Brady, and they're they're
Speaker 1: both like ubra ubra competitive and will do anything it
Speaker 1: takes to win a football game. And I've always said
Speaker 1: many times over the years here in Cincinnati, the reason
Speaker 1: we had a good decade in the eighties that that
Speaker 1: led to a couple of Super Bowls is some of
Speaker 1: our our best players or some of our best people,
Speaker 1: you know, highlighted by Anthony Winios. And then you get
Speaker 1: Kenny Anderson, Boomer Sias in a quarterback, and you've got
Speaker 1: you know, the list can go on and on, Chris Collinsworth,
Speaker 1: Isaac Curtis and you know all these guys, um Tom
Speaker 1: Brady being the guy he is, the kind of guy
Speaker 1: he is when you're your best player is working his
Speaker 1: tail off to become even a better player, it lifts
Speaker 1: the whole boat. And Tom Brady works harder than anybody.
Speaker 1: First guy there, last guy to leave still after twenty
Speaker 1: years of it. Um, you know, and there's a lot
Speaker 1: of reason to go home, Giselle. That's a good reason
Speaker 1: to go home with the beautiful children they have. But
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's like you, you say to yourself,
Speaker 1: look what Tom's doing? Am I doing enough? Man? I
Speaker 1: bet I better pick it up? And that's that's what
Speaker 1: he's brought to the organization for many, many, many years.
Speaker 1: The New England Patriots come to town with a little
Speaker 1: added motivation. This week they've lost two straight. People are
Speaker 1: accusing them of being cheaters again. Do the Bengal stand
Speaker 1: a chance? Lap and if sell? How boy, what they
Speaker 1: have to do is they've been playing hard, but they
Speaker 1: haven't been playing smart enough. Haven't been making enough players
Speaker 1: and playing smart enough. And against the Patriots, you have
Speaker 1: to play smart because they take every mistake you make
Speaker 1: and rub your face in it and capitalize on it.
Speaker 1: And somehow their mistakes don't lead to tragedy and your
Speaker 1: mistakes lead to huge misfortune. I mean, that's just the
Speaker 1: way they win. And they jump on you the slightest
Speaker 1: blip they're jumping on it. They're plus nineteen in the
Speaker 1: turnover department. You got to take care of the football
Speaker 1: if you can somehow force to turnover too. If you
Speaker 1: can finish plus in the turnover department like they did
Speaker 1: against the Cleveland Browns in the last game, the first
Speaker 1: time all year that they've done that, they have a
Speaker 1: punchers chance if they don't. If they don't win the
Speaker 1: turnover margin, they give the Patriots extra possessions and minimize
Speaker 1: their own. It could be in big trouble. Because the
Speaker 1: Patriots are allowing less than thirteen points a game. The
Speaker 1: Bengals are scoring it just over fifteen points a game.
Speaker 1: So will the Bengals offense be able to do enough
Speaker 1: in terms of scoring to make it a competitive game
Speaker 1: against his Patriot defenses than one in the NFL and
Speaker 1: points allowed the myriad of other things. Let's ignore the
Speaker 1: videotaping controversy for a second and discuss Bill Belichick's coaching ability.
Speaker 1: He's taking the Patriots to nine Super Bowls. He's won six.
Speaker 1: This is the seventeenth consecutive year the Patriots have won
Speaker 1: ten or more games. It's unbelievable. What makes him one
Speaker 1: of the greatest coaches in any sport of all time.
Speaker 1: Number One, they've been dominant. Number two, they have been
Speaker 1: in a crappy division that they can dominate. So you know,
Speaker 1: every year the Dolphins have struggled, the Bills have had
Speaker 1: their issues, you know, the Jets have had their issues.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's been the best team in the NFL
Speaker 1: in the worst division. So they're gonna win close to
Speaker 1: ten games almost by default, so you know part of that,
Speaker 1: that's part of the reason. But with that said, he's
Speaker 1: a genius. He's a football menza and he has an
Speaker 1: answer for every situation. In fact, he has multiple answers
Speaker 1: for every situation that arises during the course of a
Speaker 1: football game, and he will rotate in those answers freely
Speaker 1: and very wisely during the course of the game. Plus,
Speaker 1: and with that said, he surrounds himself with players that
Speaker 1: are versatile to be able to do all of those
Speaker 1: things and all those variances in situational football and have
Speaker 1: the intelligence to comprehend it. So he has a big
Speaker 1: inventory of things to draw from, and he has smart
Speaker 1: enough players to be able to draw from a big inventory,
Speaker 1: and the players believe in what he's doing and he
Speaker 1: believes in his players and that trust is a big,
Speaker 1: big deal. And I didn't even mention his greatest achievement
Speaker 1: of all. He once went eleven and five as the
Speaker 1: head coach of the Cleveland Browns. Belichick's all time record
Speaker 1: against the Bengals is fifteen and four, and believe it
Speaker 1: or not, there's little difference between his time in Cleveland
Speaker 1: and his time in New England. He was nine and
Speaker 1: two against the Bengals as the Brown's head coach, and
Speaker 1: he's eight and two since arriving in New England. Now
Speaker 1: time for this week's locker room conversation as I visit
Speaker 1: with a third year defensive lineman who had the bengals
Speaker 1: only sack of Baker Mayfield last week and would love
Speaker 1: to get one this week against three time NFL MVP,
Speaker 1: four time Super Bowl MVP, and six time Super Bowl
Speaker 1: winning quarterback Tom Brady. We're in the locker room with
Speaker 1: Karl Lawson. Over the last four weeks, opposing offenses are
Speaker 1: averaging less than fifteen points a game against the Bengals.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like the defense has turned a corner
Speaker 1: and has become a strength of the team. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: think we're definitely improving and we just need to keep
Speaker 1: keep on building and keep on working. Yeah we're not
Speaker 1: we want to be. A record shows that, but one
Speaker 1: thing you can't do is just regret. So we just gotta,
Speaker 1: you know, keep on working. Anything stand out to you
Speaker 1: in particular during this stretch, I think just health health, health,
Speaker 1: and then just people just know and knowing the situation
Speaker 1: that the jobs on the line. Um, especially you know
Speaker 1: in this league is when you got a record that
Speaker 1: that we have. You know a lot of people are
Speaker 1: auditioning for not just um this team, but other teams
Speaker 1: around the league. So I'm bean this can end quick,
Speaker 1: So people gotta be on the toes. We're talking to
Speaker 1: Carl loss and with Sam Hubbard out, you were in
Speaker 1: there for more than ninety percent of the snaps last
Speaker 1: week and started the game. How was that for you?
Speaker 1: It was good, It's really um. He does so many
Speaker 1: different things for our defense, so that allows other people
Speaker 1: to be who they are. UM. So, as you know,
Speaker 1: I had to fill in for him, and it was
Speaker 1: just you know, asked him on different tips and stuff
Speaker 1: at his position and things that he did. So UM,
Speaker 1: I felt good. He does a lot of things and
Speaker 1: you did a lot of things. Last week, you drop
Speaker 1: back into coverage quite a bit. How's your comfort level
Speaker 1: on doing that? My comfort level is uny thing that
Speaker 1: would do a defense is good. I could be a
Speaker 1: great player anytime I'm out there in the field. Um
Speaker 1: you know, Um, yeah, there's no difference in you know
Speaker 1: what I gotta go out there and do. It's just
Speaker 1: everybody has a role on their defense, as you know
Speaker 1: what My role is mainly for a team issus just
Speaker 1: go um and you know, pass rush situations. But I'm
Speaker 1: also excellent rundefender, so when my number is called, I'm
Speaker 1: able to do that. I'm talking to Carl Loss and
Speaker 1: you tore your ACL in October of last year. Do
Speaker 1: you even think about that anymore? Is it completely out
Speaker 1: of mind? Um? It was. It was kind of like,
Speaker 1: you know, in the first beginning of the season, and
Speaker 1: I had a hamstring, so it just adds a bunch
Speaker 1: of stuff on. After the bye week, I really started
Speaker 1: to feel like myself again, So you know, I don't
Speaker 1: think about it coming into the bye week because I
Speaker 1: was like I had the hamstring on top of it
Speaker 1: coming off the ACL, so it's hard to move and
Speaker 1: a little a little slow out there and process stuff.
Speaker 1: But now I'm starting to get comfortable. Carl, you're known
Speaker 1: for your pass rushing ability. I happened to be walking
Speaker 1: behind you in the hallway a couple of days ago
Speaker 1: when you're on your way to lunch and you were
Speaker 1: working on your pass rush moves. You're doing, like, you know,
Speaker 1: swim moves and stuff like that. Do you find yourself
Speaker 1: kind of unconsciously constantly working on your technique? Yeah, not
Speaker 1: just passion us anything that I have to do in football.
Speaker 1: I want to constantly work to get better because I mean,
Speaker 1: my goal is to be the best, no matter of
Speaker 1: the situation than I am. And now eventually over my career,
Speaker 1: I strive to be the best. And so I'm gonna
Speaker 1: just keep working and do that. And so anytime I
Speaker 1: can walk around the corner or set an edge or
Speaker 1: you know, work on my coverage responsibility in my head,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do that. And you know that's I'm gonna
Speaker 1: do a few more questions for Carl Lawson. You face
Speaker 1: the Patriots this week. Would sacking Brady be different from
Speaker 1: sacking anybody else? Oh? Yeah, it's definitely all the time
Speaker 1: dream of mine. I mean, you know, he's the he's
Speaker 1: the goat for a reason, and definitely maybe if I
Speaker 1: get a sack on him, you know, it might rub
Speaker 1: off of me and help my game. So I mean
Speaker 1: that'd be an all the time dream to, you know,
Speaker 1: get a sack on Brady. But I mean it's honestly
Speaker 1: just honored to be on the field with him and
Speaker 1: play against him because he's you know, he's a constant pro.
Speaker 1: The way take here himself, the way he's consistent. You know,
Speaker 1: it's um, it's true blessing. You put a lot of
Speaker 1: time and energy into maintaining your body. Do you have
Speaker 1: an added level of respect for a guy that seems
Speaker 1: to be obsessed with his Oh, I have a ton
Speaker 1: of respect for Tom Brady. I mean, he's done it
Speaker 1: for twenty years, and that's something I kind of want
Speaker 1: to kind of want to do. I don't I don't
Speaker 1: really plan on, like, um, not playing a long time.
Speaker 1: I kind of see this these first four years, the
Speaker 1: early early stages in my career, and after that I
Speaker 1: want to play shoot like Cam waglong, like to like
Speaker 1: maybe thirty eight, you know, and that way I can
Speaker 1: you know, be in an all time SAT conversation. Last thing.
Speaker 1: You guys don't have a chance to go to the
Speaker 1: postseason this year, do you relish the opportunity to be
Speaker 1: a spoiler to try to hurt the Patriots or another
Speaker 1: team's playoff chances? No, for me, these even though I'm
Speaker 1: not in the playoff. For me, it's taking these games
Speaker 1: and getting the experience to um to go into next
Speaker 1: year a better player. That's that's the main thing I
Speaker 1: get from it is just going out there and now I,
Speaker 1: you know, out there and getting these games in so
Speaker 1: I can get the experience so I can coming next
Speaker 1: year a better player and and get close close to
Speaker 1: my goals. So that's what I don't really care about
Speaker 1: spoiling anyways, you know, and I care about plans I
Speaker 1: can get better. Appreciate your time, best of luck this week.
Speaker 1: Appreciate it. That's Carl Lawson. The Patriots are on the
Speaker 1: verge of wrapping up a playoff spot for the eleventh
Speaker 1: straight year. That would give Bill Belichick a new NFL
Speaker 1: record for consecutive playoff berths by a head coach. He
Speaker 1: currently shares the record with Tony Dungee. But after an
Speaker 1: eight no start, the Patriots have sputtered a bit they've
Speaker 1: dropped three of their last five games, albeit to the
Speaker 1: other three first placed teams in the AFC Baltimore, Houston,
Speaker 1: and Kansas City. For more on the Patriots, the radio
Speaker 1: voice Bob Socy joined us for this week's No the
Speaker 1: Fox segment. Let's talk about the big story this week
Speaker 1: in both cities, and that is Spygate two point zero.
Speaker 1: I hate to even use the term, but how is
Speaker 1: that playing New England. It's playing about as you would imagine,
Speaker 1: having spent a fair amount of time in these parts yourself,
Speaker 1: of course, and I do miss those days when we
Speaker 1: were together, able to get lunch once in a while
Speaker 1: in Boston. But obviously it's dominated the conversation here a
Speaker 1: lot of different narratives. I will say that, you know, locally,
Speaker 1: it's been a very strong and a reaction somewhat mixed,
Speaker 1: but you know, the Patriots in a situation where you know,
Speaker 1: the past precedes them, and I think locally people are
Speaker 1: taking a somewhat waiting to the approach by and large,
Speaker 1: but nonetheless, you know, obviously it's a story that has
Speaker 1: gotten a lot of coverage and gotten a lot of
Speaker 1: play on the radio and as well in print and
Speaker 1: on and on the world wide Web, Bob. I guess
Speaker 1: the thing that almost amazes everybody is when me and
Speaker 1: Jeanie was coach of the Jets, the Patriots got their
Speaker 1: you know thumb in advice about filming sidelines, filming signals,
Speaker 1: and even though this isn't a football operations as such,
Speaker 1: although they were doing a documentary as on a football
Speaker 1: operations guy and advance scout, he is a football operations guy.
Speaker 1: Is it just a case of the left hand not
Speaker 1: knowing what the right hand is doing? Was Bill Belichick
Speaker 1: left out of the loop as to what this videographer
Speaker 1: might be doing from a responsibility standpoint when they were
Speaker 1: putting together this feature story they were doing. Yeah, and Dave,
Speaker 1: let me the first backtrack a bit and explain a
Speaker 1: couple of things about where I am and what I do.
Speaker 1: I am employed full time by the radio station. I
Speaker 1: do a lot of work though for Craft Sports Productions
Speaker 1: and have for the last six seasons. This is my
Speaker 1: seventh year overall, pass into my second year of the team,
Speaker 1: started to do work on a part time basis for KST.
Speaker 1: Cash Sports Production is a pretty innovative wing of the
Speaker 1: Craft group and the Patriots organization. For example, a couple
Speaker 1: of years ago, out of Super Bowl fifty two, they
Speaker 1: put together twenty four hour network all week long in
Speaker 1: the Twin Cities. They're not done network. Last year they
Speaker 1: took a different approach and nonetheless provided a lot of
Speaker 1: content as well that week. It's the kind of out
Speaker 1: of the box thinking that they have done with a
Speaker 1: lot of support from from the organization, and they have
Speaker 1: been running this to Your Job series. This is I believe,
Speaker 1: the second season of it. They have featured college scouts
Speaker 1: in the past, equipment people. Nancy Myers is the long
Speaker 1: time personnel assistant for the Patriots. She's been here for
Speaker 1: forty plus years. Did a piece on the trainers last week.
Speaker 1: So they really make quite a commitment on this side
Speaker 1: of the organization, speaking of KSP, to try to give
Speaker 1: fans who really have an insatiable appetite like elsewhere for
Speaker 1: that kind of content, any peak behind the curtain, if
Speaker 1: you will. So that being said, and I have to
Speaker 1: admit that you know, I know a lot of the
Speaker 1: principles very well. Who right now are you know very
Speaker 1: much you know, concerned about this situation dealing with it?
Speaker 1: Belichick spoke, I can't certainly certainly can't speak for Bill,
Speaker 1: but Bill just spoke a few minutes ago, and then
Speaker 1: this press conference again, I think, more adamantly even than
Speaker 1: in the last forty eight hours, made it clear. Uh
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, strongly pounded home the message that
Speaker 1: nobody from football Operations had anything to do with it.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote one of my most respected counterparts from
Speaker 1: around the league and just say that, you know, when
Speaker 1: I've heard of it, and you know, as I followed it,
Speaker 1: I can only say that I can't believe anybody would
Speaker 1: you know, would they really be this dumb to do that?
Speaker 1: And I don't think so. I just yea and I
Speaker 1: and I understand that the bankals have every right um
Speaker 1: to react the way that they did and bring it
Speaker 1: to the league's attention. And I can't blame them. I
Speaker 1: can't blame one of the questions from Cincinnati. I said earlier,
Speaker 1: the past precedes the team here and all those questions,
Speaker 1: you know, all the scrutiny you certainly warranted. You know.
Speaker 1: My My standpoint though, is that you know, as I
Speaker 1: said earlier, it's waiting see and uh, you know, we
Speaker 1: we in this organization, those of us who cover this
Speaker 1: organization have certainly had the deal with a lot of
Speaker 1: situations over the last however many years, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: this organization has continued to move forward, and as the
Speaker 1: football team goes, they compartmentalize it as well as anybody
Speaker 1: possibly could. I think, you know, whether it was deflate
Speaker 1: Gate or any other you know, perceived controversy or real
Speaker 1: controversy in the past, this organization does a tremendous job.
Speaker 1: So they'll be focused and ready to go on Sunday,
Speaker 1: that's for sure. I guess As a follow up, I
Speaker 1: guess there just has to be better communication between the
Speaker 1: entities about NFL rules. I mean simple rules. You can't
Speaker 1: you can't video a sideline, so the the independent uh
Speaker 1: you know, worker as we are. I mean, I'm not
Speaker 1: an employee of the Bengals. I'm an independent contractor in
Speaker 1: the video guys, an independent contractor. I guess there has
Speaker 1: to be a better education of the things you can
Speaker 1: and can't do. And you know, Bill, I I mean
Speaker 1: not just in Cincinnati, in New England, around the world,
Speaker 1: Bill Belichick is known as a guy that knows what
Speaker 1: kind of toilet paper they put them in the dispensers
Speaker 1: in the in the bathrooms, that he knows everything about everything,
Speaker 1: so everybody can't believe they wouldn't have any idea of
Speaker 1: what's going on. But like you say, they are separate departments,
Speaker 1: are compartmentalized. But I think in his mind it's going
Speaker 1: to be like, man, we better have better communication from
Speaker 1: this point forward, because you just you just put me
Speaker 1: in a big time ringer. Well, I think absolutely, you
Speaker 1: know that that's a valid point. I think the organization
Speaker 1: is as much admitted that through its statement, and I
Speaker 1: think that you know, there's there's no excuse for ignorance
Speaker 1: in many situations, and you know, perhaps this is one.
Speaker 1: I will say this. And Bill began his press conference
Speaker 1: by reiterating what he has said many times, whether the
Speaker 1: Patriots were preparing for the Bengals or he was simply
Speaker 1: asked a question about Paul Brown or Mike Brown, that
Speaker 1: he has tremendous respect for the Brown family. And I've
Speaker 1: known that to be the case, for example, because I
Speaker 1: used to cover the Navy football team I called Naval
Speaker 1: Academy Football for sixteen years, and I remember one time
Speaker 1: during a game when I slipped up with a reference
Speaker 1: to Bill Walsh being the father of the West Coast
Speaker 1: offense during a broadcast of Navy in Rutgers. This is
Speaker 1: back in the late nineties, and an old football coach
Speaker 1: at the Naval Academy stopped me the following week and
Speaker 1: gave me a thorough education on the real brain behind
Speaker 1: the West Coast offending to his mind, and that happened
Speaker 1: to be the late Sea Belichick. And I learned a
Speaker 1: lot about Paul Brown and Dick Gilman and you know,
Speaker 1: and that Paul Brown coaching tree and all the innovations
Speaker 1: that Bill Belichick has spoken at great length this week
Speaker 1: and every other time I've heard him to discussed Paul Brown. Right,
Speaker 1: he has a lot of respect and I don't know
Speaker 1: how much weight that carries there in Cincinnati, but I
Speaker 1: think it's something that's really important to understand. Our guest
Speaker 1: is the radio voice of the Patrio. It's Bob Socy.
Speaker 1: Let's talk football a little bit. I've been listening to
Speaker 1: quite a bit of New England sports talk radio this week,
Speaker 1: and I was tremendously amused when I heard the following.
Speaker 1: Somebody said, this is one of the hosts. The Patriots
Speaker 1: sucked this year. They're only going to win one playoff game.
Speaker 1: I mean, we would have a parade as soon as
Speaker 1: the Bengals win their next playoff game, hopefully it's not
Speaker 1: too far away. But is that kind of the mood that, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're they're still you know, they're they're good enough to
Speaker 1: win a playoff game. But that's it. Well, Dan, they
Speaker 1: were booted halftime. Granted they didn't have a very good
Speaker 1: second quarters ten and two team. They've always shown great
Speaker 1: resilience and they did, in fact on the second half
Speaker 1: of that game, and they went off the field bowed
Speaker 1: by the fans of Cholette Stadium. It's the nature playing here.
Speaker 1: It's the nature of being as successful as the Patriots
Speaker 1: who've been for the last nineteen seasons, in particular, that
Speaker 1: the expectations are possible to meet, and anything short of
Speaker 1: a championship in the in the minds of some, as
Speaker 1: foolish as it seems elsewhere, is a failure. And with
Speaker 1: this particular team, I think you have kind of a
Speaker 1: confluence of different things. Do you have the concern about
Speaker 1: this team in this moment in two nineteen and then
Speaker 1: attached to those concerns all I think warriors on the
Speaker 1: part of many about the future of the organization with
Speaker 1: a forty two year old quarterback who's not out of
Speaker 1: contract for next year, amid a lot of speculation about
Speaker 1: whether Tom Brady is going to continue playing, and if
Speaker 1: he does, where he's going to play. So I think
Speaker 1: that's that's all the factor. You know, for years, I've heard,
Speaker 1: since I took over this position in two thousand and thirteen,
Speaker 1: that the window was closing. And I think, you know,
Speaker 1: this is a fan base, and it's in great part
Speaker 1: because of the media as well. We're spoiled, and we
Speaker 1: have been spoiled. And you know, I'm of the mind
Speaker 1: that you know, this is something that we should appreciate
Speaker 1: every moment of and I often take for granted myself,
Speaker 1: but then they have to step back and remember what
Speaker 1: it was like when I was calling those Davy games
Speaker 1: and the myths we're losing thirty out of thirty three
Speaker 1: at one point, or however many bad minor league baseball
Speaker 1: teams I covered through the years when we first got
Speaker 1: to know each other by Bob watching this defense that
Speaker 1: Bill Belichick has assembled this year. Now, granted, there's the
Speaker 1: thing that jumps out at me. He's got a lot
Speaker 1: of seven eight you know, year veterans had been with
Speaker 1: him a long time. They're versatile, they're smart. He trusts them,
Speaker 1: they trust him. I've never seen, honestly, I've never seen
Speaker 1: a group where all eleven guys are exactly where they're
Speaker 1: supposed to be when they're supposed to be there, doing
Speaker 1: exactly what they're supposed to do. From a technique standpoint,
Speaker 1: it is in play so hard it is a true marvel.
Speaker 1: And as an offensive lineman, I'm looking at man, a
Speaker 1: guy wearing a number in the thirties is you know,
Speaker 1: or in the twenties is coming down and they're bringing
Speaker 1: him down in the box as a linebacker, and they're
Speaker 1: doing it on first down. It's their run defense. But
Speaker 1: they don't have you know, base personnel in there. All.
Speaker 1: My rule would be, okay, I'm not doing rules by
Speaker 1: numbers that they're wearing in New Jersey. It's where they're
Speaker 1: lining up because safeties could be linebackers, linebackers could be
Speaker 1: defensive ends. I mean, they're so so diverse it is
Speaker 1: it must be hell to prepare for when you're an
Speaker 1: offensive player and an offensive coach to go against that unit.
Speaker 1: They're unbelievable. Yeah, Dave, and I think you really saw
Speaker 1: that to the first part of the schedule, in particular
Speaker 1: when they were facing teams that, granted them, are not
Speaker 1: having good seasons. Frankly, they had a soft schedule early on,
Speaker 1: but made so especially because of the inexperience at the
Speaker 1: quarterback position they were facing. And I think you touched
Speaker 1: on a couple of key points, the experience of this
Speaker 1: team and the ten years of Devin mccordy, Patrick Chunk,
Speaker 1: who is one of those guys in the twenties or thirties,
Speaker 1: number twenty three, who's really been one of the first
Speaker 1: players I think in the league that has been that
Speaker 1: hybrid safety slash line. He's a linebacker for the right
Speaker 1: far exactly pro pound pro. Poulet has been really the
Speaker 1: I think as tough as anybody in the league. Has
Speaker 1: been beat up a lot this year and hasn't been
Speaker 1: out there as much as we've seen him, but he's
Speaker 1: kind of a game changing player where you bring him
Speaker 1: into the box, he gives you the coverage ability against
Speaker 1: the tie and end or running back, but also as
Speaker 1: a very solid tackler and a very physical player. And
Speaker 1: with him and mccordy, they've been together since both were
Speaker 1: drafted in Chung's case, I think O nine and Devin's
Speaker 1: case two thousand and ten, with but one exception, and
Speaker 1: that was when Chung was an Eagle for a season.
Speaker 1: There's great communication between those two safeties. John Harmon spend
Speaker 1: here since two thirteen. He's the third safety. He and
Speaker 1: Devin mccordy go back to their days at Rutgers. Then
Speaker 1: you throw in guys like Jason mccordy, Devin's twin brother
Speaker 1: back for his sec eight year Dante Hide Tower, who's
Speaker 1: along with Devin mccordy, been a quarterback of that defense.
Speaker 1: They are always on the same page and they talk
Speaker 1: about communication and how important it is to them in
Speaker 1: this defense all the time. And they've they've benefited as
Speaker 1: well from the return of Jamie Collins. He's been a
Speaker 1: different player in two thousand and nineteen than he was
Speaker 1: when they them away to the Browns in twenty sixteen.
Speaker 1: Still a freakish athlete, but I think he's had a
Speaker 1: more focused approach here now that he's been paid and
Speaker 1: also seeing what it was like to be on a
Speaker 1: winless football team, you know. And they just do such
Speaker 1: a great job of putting players in position where they're
Speaker 1: able to succeed and not in position where they're likely
Speaker 1: to fail. So they don't ask players to do things
Speaker 1: and they're not capable of typically, and you look at
Speaker 1: a guy like Adam Butler for example, situational player up front,
Speaker 1: Danny Shelton, guy who's had a good season in the
Speaker 1: second year. They're getting contributions from everybody on the defensive
Speaker 1: side of the ball. Right. My final question for radio
Speaker 1: voice Bob Socie of the Patriots, Julian Edelman is having
Speaker 1: a tremendous year, but how mediocre has the play been
Speaker 1: of the other receiving targets between wide receivers and tight ends. Dan,
Speaker 1: you're you're putting it kindly in the minds that you
Speaker 1: mentioned the fans in sports stock circles here, and I
Speaker 1: have to say it also starts and includes the guys
Speaker 1: a pump because as much continuity and cohesiveness as they've
Speaker 1: enjoyed defensively, it hasn't been their offensively either on the
Speaker 1: line at the tight end positions. They're missing their fullback
Speaker 1: teams definitely haven't had a running game to help off
Speaker 1: set the lack of you know, their their their threats
Speaker 1: at receiver. So it started when they lost David Andrews
Speaker 1: as a center, and then as they win and the
Speaker 1: left tackle was out for a long time. This year,
Speaker 1: Jake Devlon, who was key last Yearly reinvented themselves became
Speaker 1: a power running team late in the season and that
Speaker 1: was really the springboard to success against Chargers and Chiefs
Speaker 1: and the Ansty playoffs. But as you saw when they
Speaker 1: went out and they brought in Antonio Brown, they were searching.
Speaker 1: It's mack almost of desperation, and that's been a recurrent
Speaker 1: problem actually the last two years. When they went out
Speaker 1: and got Josh Board and initially in twenty and eighteen,
Speaker 1: it was a sign of the problems they've had on
Speaker 1: the outside of just lacking someone to affect coverage. And
Speaker 1: it's amplified now because you don't have Rob Gronkowski as
Speaker 1: well as Edelman. When Gronkowski was here last year, he
Speaker 1: really struggled through the season physically and wasn't the same
Speaker 1: force in the passing offense for much of the year.
Speaker 1: But he still forced defensive coordinators to make that decision,
Speaker 1: you know, am I really going to write him off
Speaker 1: this week? Or am I going to have to play
Speaker 1: him the way we typically do? And dictate coverage around him.
Speaker 1: And now what we're seeing a lot of lately is
Speaker 1: teams know that they can double Edelman and they don't
Speaker 1: run the risk of being being outside or having somebody
Speaker 1: else to be that quick outlet for Brady. And they're
Speaker 1: pressuring Brady a lot more and his numbers are dramatically
Speaker 1: dipping when facing pressure. And the last week, in particular
Speaker 1: against Kansas City, I think we saw a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of games and starts up brought with us
Speaker 1: with his own pressures and blitzes on Brady and with
Speaker 1: Edelman as this one guy that he truly seems to trust.
Speaker 1: You know, this offense has been hamstrung in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways. Finally, and appreciate carving all the time. I'm
Speaker 1: just did our special teams the all important third phase.
Speaker 1: The Bengals three out of the four phases, they're in
Speaker 1: the top ten, and you know they're sixth in covering
Speaker 1: punts third and kickoff returns fifth and covering kickoffs the
Speaker 1: Patriots seventh, and kickoff coverage ninth and punt return ninth
Speaker 1: and punt coverage, plus they have four blocked punts. I
Speaker 1: think the matchup between the special teams coaches and the
Speaker 1: players that they coach, is going to be very interesting
Speaker 1: in this one, no doubt about it, Dave. And it's
Speaker 1: interesting as well. In addition to the lines of Bill
Speaker 1: uttered today's press conference about Mike Brown, the next thing
Speaker 1: you talked about where the Bengals special teams. The Patriots
Speaker 1: have a punter and Jake Bailey who has become a
Speaker 1: weapon for them with Matthew Sladder and Justin Bethel in
Speaker 1: particular at the gunner positions. Those are guys who have
Speaker 1: ten Pro Bowl appearances between them, and later has scored
Speaker 1: a touchdown on a block punt recovering and he's blocked
Speaker 1: a punt that's set up the Patriots for a touchdown
Speaker 1: as well, and he has been I think that the
Speaker 1: standard setter in the NFL at that position during his
Speaker 1: career as a Patriot. They haven't necessarily done well, of course,
Speaker 1: in the other phase of kicking, and that's where they're
Speaker 1: place kickers. They're on their fourth the season, Nick Folk
Speaker 1: because of an early injury to Stephen Gostkowski, but I
Speaker 1: think in Folk they have confidence. He had an appendeck
Speaker 1: to me a couple of weeks ago, so he had
Speaker 1: a one week. Hiatus Kai forbass came in here against
Speaker 1: Houston Folk return last week. I think there's confidence that
Speaker 1: folks can at least steady them in that phase. But
Speaker 1: you touched on the block punts. That's four of them
Speaker 1: this year, franchise record for the team won away from
Speaker 1: the Chiefs in nineteen ninety. And they've done it in
Speaker 1: different ways. They've done it up the middle, they've done
Speaker 1: it from the outside. John Jones is a guy that's
Speaker 1: an exceptional special teams player. JC Jackson as another who's
Speaker 1: developed into a special team's days. Belichick devotes probably more
Speaker 1: resources than anyone when it comes to the middle class
Speaker 1: of the roster and the little class of the salary cap.
Speaker 1: When it comes to special teams and the scenario that
Speaker 1: he's criticized for frequently when they're going through rough patches
Speaker 1: as they are now, people wonder why aren't they devoting
Speaker 1: more to their offense. Why do they have all these
Speaker 1: guys like Nate Avenue, for example, a rugby player from
Speaker 1: Ohio State who's a course special team are and blocked
Speaker 1: upon last week to help turn things around a bit
Speaker 1: against the Chiefs. But that's Bill's philosophy. He sees it.
Speaker 1: There's almost three equal phases of the game, and he's
Speaker 1: going to allocate resources to special teams like few others,
Speaker 1: if any others. And I think we've seen that this year.
Speaker 1: Like I said, the Bengals are terrific. He's noted that
Speaker 1: and it's always been that way our thanks to Bob
Speaker 1: Socie him. That's going to do it for this episode
Speaker 1: of the podcast. If you haven't done so already, don't
Speaker 1: forget to subscribe, and if you have a minute, give
Speaker 1: it a rating or share a comment. Five star ratings
Speaker 1: help more Bengals fans find this podcast. I'm Dan Horde
Speaker 1: and thank you for listening to the Bengals Boot Podcast.
Speaker 1: M