WEBVTT - In Phoenix Speech, Trump Hints at Pardon For Joe Arpaio (Audio)

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<v Speaker 1>At a campaign style rally last night in Phoenix, President

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<v Speaker 1>Trump gave an angry defense of his response to the

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<v Speaker 1>violence in Charlottesville, blaming the media for distorting his position.

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<v Speaker 1>Trump jumped from topic to topic. He threatened to shut

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<v Speaker 1>down the government over the border wall funding, and strongly

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<v Speaker 1>hinted that he might pardon former Maricopa County, Arizona sheriff

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<v Speaker 1>Joe r Pio, convicted of criminal contempt for intentionally disobeying

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<v Speaker 1>a judge's order to stop traffic patrols that targeted immigrants.

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<v Speaker 1>Was Sheriff Joe convicted for doing his job? That's what

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<v Speaker 1>he should have had a jury. But you know what,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll make a prediction. I think he's gonna be just fine. Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>Trump said he quote won't do it tonight because he

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't want to cause controversy. The five year old r

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<v Speaker 1>Pio became infamous during his twenty four years as sheriff

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<v Speaker 1>for a litany of misconduct, including aggressive enforcement of immigration

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<v Speaker 1>laws by unlawful methods, investigations of his legal and political foes,

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<v Speaker 1>and racial profiling. Joining us as Mark Osler, he's a

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<v Speaker 1>professor at St. Thomas School of Law. Mark tell us

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<v Speaker 1>what our PIOS stands for in the communities he has policed. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>he's very controversial, and he's someone that you know, expressly

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<v Speaker 1>invited confrontation with the Hispanic community in in the Phoenix area. UM,

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<v Speaker 1>and he got it. You know that he um organized

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<v Speaker 1>special projects, for example, targeting areas where people were picking

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<v Speaker 1>up day laborers we're going to be uh you know.

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<v Speaker 1>And and then of course enforcing Arizona's laws uh regarding

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<v Speaker 1>immigration that were later largely struck down. UM. And so

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<v Speaker 1>he's someone that invited controversy in the same way that

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<v Speaker 1>that Donald Trump has and was divisive in much the

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<v Speaker 1>same way. So if he was just if he was

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<v Speaker 1>enforcing Arizona's laws, he didn't write the laws and he

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<v Speaker 1>didn't strike up How what is the trouble that our

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<v Speaker 1>peo got in? Yeah, Well, you know, the thing about

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<v Speaker 1>the thing about law is that what's on the paper

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<v Speaker 1>is only part of the story. The discretion that police officers,

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<v Speaker 1>those in law enforcement and prosecutors have is often most

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<v Speaker 1>of the story. And what what Sheriff Joe got in

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<v Speaker 1>trouble for is um racial profiling. Uh that they they

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<v Speaker 1>adopted tactics that made it clear that they were targeting

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<v Speaker 1>Hispanics and also um broader systemic projects that targeted hispanics. Um,

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<v Speaker 1>it really wasn't so much some of the more controversial

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<v Speaker 1>things that he did, such as the way he ran

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<v Speaker 1>the tense City jail and things like that, but had

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<v Speaker 1>to do UM with with racial and ethnic profiling specifically,

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<v Speaker 1>and there was a pretty damning report from the Department

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<v Speaker 1>of Justice, uh in twenty back. I think that. And

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<v Speaker 1>then you had the contempt. There was an order that

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<v Speaker 1>was put in place by the court out there. He

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<v Speaker 1>was held in contempt to that and then held in

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<v Speaker 1>criminal contempt just back in July. There's a process for

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<v Speaker 1>presidential pardons. Has that been followed in any respect in

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<v Speaker 1>our Pio's case? Um, From what our Pio has said,

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<v Speaker 1>he said that he did not seek a pardon. That

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<v Speaker 1>means that he hasn't submitted a petition. The rules are

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<v Speaker 1>are you know, pretty clear about how this is supposed

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<v Speaker 1>to work? Now? Of course, it's a constitutional power of

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<v Speaker 1>the president, and that means that the president has the

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<v Speaker 1>ability not to follow the rules if he doesn't want to. However,

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<v Speaker 1>it does UM, definitely, Mark. This is something different than

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<v Speaker 1>what we usually see with clemency. Well, what normally would happen.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's he had put in a petition for for a pardon.

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<v Speaker 1>What what is the process before it actually gets to

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<v Speaker 1>the president. Yeah, the process is pretty extensive that it

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<v Speaker 1>is reviewed by the staff at the Partner Attorney, the

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<v Speaker 1>partner Attorney's official at the Department of Justice. Then the

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<v Speaker 1>pardoner Attorney looks at it, passes along to the Deputy

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<v Speaker 1>Attorney General. The Deputy Attorney General often as a staff

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<v Speaker 1>member that previews it before he or she looks at it.

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<v Speaker 1>From the deput Attorney General, it doesn't go all the

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<v Speaker 1>way to the Attorney General. It then goes over to

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<v Speaker 1>the White House to the office of the White House Council.

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<v Speaker 1>It's reviewed by staff there, then goes to the White

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<v Speaker 1>House Council, and then goes to the President finally. So

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<v Speaker 1>there's there's really seven steps potentially a review here. So

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<v Speaker 1>what kind of a message would it send if Trump

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<v Speaker 1>actually did pardon our Pio. Yeah, it's it's significant because

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<v Speaker 1>what we're talking about here, it's not it's not really

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<v Speaker 1>the same as Mark rich or Scooter Toby, where there

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<v Speaker 1>were presidents they're helping out someone who is a friend

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<v Speaker 1>or a supporter or a Uh, an employee in the

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<v Speaker 1>case of Libby. Here, it's a statement issue that uh,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it would really be perceived and I think

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<v Speaker 1>correctly as Donald Trump saying, uh, you know, this is

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<v Speaker 1>somebody like me, This is somebody I support. I support

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<v Speaker 1>the values that he expressed in his work. And the

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<v Speaker 1>reason that's going to be so controversial in a way

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<v Speaker 1>that the statute, you know when he said Confederate statutes

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<v Speaker 1>are beautiful things that shouldn't be taken down. Well, there

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about. Racism has existed a hundred and fifty

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<v Speaker 1>years ago, embedded in an institutive slavery with uh, with

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<v Speaker 1>this issue, with this potential pardon, he's dealing with racism

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<v Speaker 1>as it exists today, embedded in the mechanism of criminal law. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>is our pardons sometimes issued for what seemed to be

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<v Speaker 1>political reasons like this? Sure, yeah, I mean although very

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<v Speaker 1>often when we when we label something a political pardon,

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<v Speaker 1>we're really talking about about favoritism. That George H. W.

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<v Speaker 1>Bush issued clemency for some of the people who were

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<v Speaker 1>involved in Iran contra. Uh, you know, we had Scooter Libby,

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<v Speaker 1>we had Mark Rich, we had you know, we've we've

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<v Speaker 1>had that uh, kind of pardon for a while. UM.

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<v Speaker 1>But what I think is different about this is this

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<v Speaker 1>political in a way that it's making a political statement

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<v Speaker 1>about law enforcement. UM. And Trump's been pretty explicit, especially

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<v Speaker 1>in what we heard in the rally last night, in

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<v Speaker 1>making it clear that's what he's after. Our PIO is

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<v Speaker 1>eighty five years old. He faces six months in jail,

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<v Speaker 1>up to six months in jail, and attorneys who have

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<v Speaker 1>been following the case doubt that someone of his age

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<v Speaker 1>and with no criminal record would actually serve time. Is

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<v Speaker 1>that Is that your or opinion? And what does that

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<v Speaker 1>say about what Trump wants to do in pardoning him? Right?

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<v Speaker 1>I completely agree with that. I can't see a judge

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<v Speaker 1>giving him even the six months or a fraction of that.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't. I don't think that's going to happen to

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<v Speaker 1>a man of his age, and he's lost in election already.

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<v Speaker 1>He's you know, there's not the danger of him continuing

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<v Speaker 1>these activities. There's someone new in office who's who's changed

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<v Speaker 1>those policies. UM. But uh, you know that does go

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<v Speaker 1>to given that there really isn't much risk of this

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<v Speaker 1>five year old man going to jail. UM, what's the

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<v Speaker 1>message that Trump is really sending and I think it

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<v Speaker 1>has to do with issues much deeper than any one person.

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<v Speaker 1>I should say that our Pio told the Associated Press

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<v Speaker 1>that he wasn't disappointed that Trump didn't pardon him yesterday.

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<v Speaker 1>He said, they've just decided not to do with tonight.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll have to see if and when it occurs in

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<v Speaker 1>the future.