Speaker 1: Welcome to desperately devoted Think of us as your favorite
Speaker 1: neighbors as we chat about life and relationships, all.
Speaker 2: While we revisit the iconic show Desperate Housewives together.
Speaker 1: I'm Terry Hatcher, I'm Andrea Bowen.
Speaker 2: And I'm Emerson Tenny.
Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ah, so good to see you, So good
Speaker 1: to see your favorite thing about Tuesday.
Speaker 2: I totally agree this episode's title. Speaking out over Here
Speaker 2: episode thirteen air January twenty third, two thousand and five,
Speaker 2: titled Your Fault.
Speaker 3: From the amazing musical Into the Woods.
Speaker 2: Into the Woods is my favorite Sontai musical. I could
Speaker 2: sing that not it's your fault and it's really mine at.
Speaker 3: All came away with Without that beans, that would have
Speaker 3: been nose doc to get up to the giant in
Speaker 3: the first place. Wait a minute, yeah I won't.
Speaker 2: But you know what I will say, speaking of Into
Speaker 2: the Woods and your Fault and Andrea. For my eleventh birthday,
Speaker 2: right my eleventh birthday, all I wanted to do was
Speaker 2: an Into the Woods themed birthday party, and so I
Speaker 2: was probably the only eleven year old sending out birthday
Speaker 2: invites along with people's sides.
Speaker 1: I into the Woods. They got to signed a character
Speaker 1: and a script.
Speaker 2: Yes, I cast it beautifully. I cast it with all
Speaker 2: my friends. I cast them in the roles that I
Speaker 2: thought that they should play. And everyone showed up at
Speaker 2: my mom's backyard in the morning. She set up a
Speaker 2: beautiful stage. She spray painted a backdrop with a carousel
Speaker 2: and a castle and a carriage, and we rehearsed for
Speaker 2: the beginning of the day. Then we had lunch, and
Speaker 2: then we performed the first act only so we actually
Speaker 2: didn't get to the song your Fault, but we performed
Speaker 2: the first active into the Woods, and Andrea came with
Speaker 2: so saved the day.
Speaker 3: She said, what happened? Why did I have to pitch
Speaker 3: hit some of my friends to come in?
Speaker 2: So my one male friend at the time, as an
Speaker 2: eleven year old, whyatt Stromer, I'm called, I am out.
Speaker 2: He's still one of my dear friends. So I can
Speaker 2: I can say his name and last name. My gosh,
Speaker 2: he's identified. He's a wonderful guy.
Speaker 1: He really is so cute.
Speaker 2: Yeah, incredible cinematographer, just great human being. But at the
Speaker 2: time he was like my one male friend, and I
Speaker 2: think I had cast him as both the prince and
Speaker 2: the wolf. Because naturally he really had to carry a
Speaker 2: lot of weight. And then he got sick and he
Speaker 2: couldn't come to the party, and I was playing Cinderella,
Speaker 2: which now, just for the record, if we ever did
Speaker 2: into the Woods again, I would one want to be
Speaker 2: the witch or the Baker's wife. Yes, but at the
Speaker 2: time I wanted to be Cinderella and I had no prince,
Speaker 2: and I was devastated.
Speaker 1: And this is like late at night. And also I
Speaker 1: want to point out that Glee was at its height
Speaker 1: of popularity. So I imagine, just imagine Glee is at
Speaker 1: its high to popularity. My daughter is going to be
Speaker 1: turning eleven, and I call Andrea Sos, do you know
Speaker 1: anyone that could come be the prince at an eleven
Speaker 1: year olds to the Woods birthday party?
Speaker 3: And I happened to be and still to this day,
Speaker 3: very very very close friends with Kevin McHale and Jenna Hushwoods,
Speaker 3: who were both on Glee and are just incredible people
Speaker 3: in general and both very musically gifted as we know.
Speaker 3: And so I was like, yeah, I do I have
Speaker 3: people who can come.
Speaker 1: In and out and they did, and they did, and
Speaker 1: these two do you know that I told them I
Speaker 1: have I remember, you know, I never remember anything. Obviously
Speaker 1: we've been doing this rewatch, and I don't remember anything,
Speaker 1: but I remember this. After the party, we were in
Speaker 1: our living room and I was talking to them and
Speaker 1: I looked Kevin right in the face and I said,
Speaker 1: I will scrub your toilets for the rest of your life.
Speaker 1: That is how much I know you. No, but I
Speaker 1: mean it was just I will do anything for you
Speaker 1: for the rest of your life because you came through
Speaker 1: these kids at this party, if you can imagine, I mean,
Speaker 1: it was like the biggest movie stars walked into the
Speaker 1: backyard and he played the prince and we did it
Speaker 1: all like very improvy, and I have video of all
Speaker 1: of this, and he twirled her around and he was
Speaker 1: so tolerant of like they were just gaga over the
Speaker 1: I mean it was crazy. So yeah, that's our into
Speaker 1: the Woods story.
Speaker 2: I think we actually can probably pull up a picture
Speaker 2: of Andrea and I from that party when I'm in
Speaker 2: my little Cinderella like rags before i transform into my
Speaker 2: princess dress and I'm seeing the picture in my head.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Anyway, very special day, special time in our lives together.
Speaker 2: And now finally I've been waiting for the time that
Speaker 2: we get an into the Woods title as the title
Speaker 2: of the episode, and here we are, Here we Are
Speaker 2: will be the last.
Speaker 1: So my highlight reel for this episode was, well, first
Speaker 1: of all, the word fault. It just pushes so many
Speaker 1: buttons for me, like I'm definitely the person that's brainwired
Speaker 1: and from my childhood and still to this day working
Speaker 1: on like things happen, and I perceive everything as my
Speaker 1: fault and as me being bad and and I mean,
Speaker 1: I really do struggle with that, and and I'm sure
Speaker 1: there are sometimes when things are my fault, but everything
Speaker 1: isn't my fault, and I really do take that on
Speaker 1: and so that kind of came up for me when
Speaker 1: I saw the title. But in this episode, we are
Speaker 1: looking at kids who are well behaved. Those are Susans
Speaker 1: and well maybe yeah, right maybe, and Lynettes who are
Speaker 1: not obviously, and Brie gets revealed really with the title
Speaker 1: now like maybe we could have guessed, but like now
Speaker 1: she actually gets the label of a Republican And when
Speaker 1: that happened, I don't know, I was kind of mind
Speaker 1: blown because obviously Republican party very different two thousand and
Speaker 1: five than it is now. But they actually in the
Speaker 1: episode they talk about her. She says guns, she talks
Speaker 1: about immigration, I mean the death penalty. Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I know that our podcast isn't necessarily
Speaker 1: politically bent, but it was a very big thing, and
Speaker 1: I mean it would be interesting to well, I can
Speaker 1: only imagine how Marsha feels about it, and it made
Speaker 1: me I can I know, I can very much imagine
Speaker 1: how she feel about it now, But I don't think
Speaker 1: I ever talked to her about where this landed for
Speaker 1: her emotionally when she was doing it in two thousand
Speaker 1: and five, I sort of like, vaguely, I feel like
Speaker 1: there must have been an election in there, like it
Speaker 1: maybe it was between Obama and Yeah, it would have
Speaker 1: been two thousand and was it Mitt Romney and Obama?
Speaker 2: It was before Obama.
Speaker 1: Because Obama was eight, But I'm still there were there
Speaker 1: were political conversations on the set, which is why I
Speaker 1: know that she's a liberal. You know.
Speaker 2: Oh, you know, I was going to say, I've actually
Speaker 2: been at just in this last election of the election
Speaker 2: before letter writing and canvassing parties that Marcia has been at.
Speaker 2: I mean, I know she's very right, and it's.
Speaker 1: It's not my position to talk about her politics, but
Speaker 1: it really did. Because the world is so politically divided now,
Speaker 1: and it is in the forefront of our news every
Speaker 1: second of every day, it did really strike me, like,
Speaker 1: and I wondered, wow, would you do that now? Like,
Speaker 1: how would that play out now? Mm hmmmm breathing a
Speaker 1: Republican now.
Speaker 3: I thought it was interesting too, that because she's that's
Speaker 3: the only character that we're really learning any sort of
Speaker 3: political viewpoint about, because these are things, these themes of
Speaker 3: gun ownership and other things come up. And and she's
Speaker 3: expressing to George in this scene at the diner, which
Speaker 3: I love a diner. Gosh, I love a diner. It
Speaker 3: was nice to see a diner up here on the show.
Speaker 1: I went to a diner yesterday, Yes, yes, from San Francisco.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I had hash browns and coffee and just the way
Speaker 1: you would do it.
Speaker 3: Perfect diner food. But I did think it made me
Speaker 3: think about, you know how, because we're in such politically
Speaker 3: divisive times. I wonder, when newly navigating a relationship that
Speaker 3: bre like like Brion George are politics, I wonder, how
Speaker 3: quickly does it have to come up?
Speaker 2: Now?
Speaker 3: Probably has to come up pretty early on, you know,
Speaker 3: because it's it's such a.
Speaker 1: Oh, I think it's so at the forefront now that
Speaker 1: I think family members don't talk to each other, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, I think, you know, friends
Speaker 1: are unfriending each other, and I mean that in a
Speaker 1: in a sad way. That's where we're at. But I
Speaker 1: would imagine, I mean, I when I used to be
Speaker 1: on a dating app, which I am not anymore and
Speaker 1: haven't been for a long time, but when I was,
Speaker 1: there would be people that would you would come across
Speaker 1: and it would say like, if you're a trumper, don't
Speaker 1: bother you know, and vice versa, right, no, depending on
Speaker 1: That was definitely something people let you know.
Speaker 3: And in this instance, Brie was reflecting, as you know,
Speaker 3: on this as part of how she and Rex fell
Speaker 3: in love. It's part of It's such an integral part
Speaker 3: in their love story.
Speaker 2: And in this episode, you know, we really see their
Speaker 2: divorce like play out in a way that we've not
Speaker 2: really seen divorce addressed before, and we see a lot
Speaker 2: of familial relationships come to light in this episode. You know,
Speaker 2: we have Susan seeing Julie's relationship with Zach. We have
Speaker 2: John's parents come to Gabby to demand that she kind
Speaker 2: of reinsert herself in John's life to try to convince
Speaker 2: him to go to college.
Speaker 1: Can I like, can we just like hone in on
Speaker 1: that for a little bit because I was so interested that.
Speaker 1: So what happens here is that John the Gardner's the
Speaker 1: high school students Gardner. I think he turns eighteen, yeah,
Speaker 1: and he's going to go to college.
Speaker 2: That's why his parents don't have any control over him,
Speaker 2: right because.
Speaker 1: He's eighteen eighteen, but he wasn't at the time. And
Speaker 1: the parents come to Gabby because he's made this decision
Speaker 1: to not go follow through with his college scholarship, and
Speaker 1: they want her. They threaten her that if you don't
Speaker 1: change his mind, we're going to go to the police.
Speaker 1: But in that conversation, the mom actually uses the words
Speaker 1: statutory rape. And I remember talking to you guys a
Speaker 1: couple episodes about about I don't really recall if this,
Speaker 1: if this storyline ever played out, if it really ever like,
Speaker 1: did we ever call it by its name? And I
Speaker 1: was like, oh, I guess we did. In episode thirteen
Speaker 1: we called it by its name, statutory rape. And so
Speaker 1: the other the thing that bothered me that this is
Speaker 1: what I wanted to get into with you. I could
Speaker 1: not get over how creepy this dad is. I was
Speaker 1: so put off. But he basically says to Gabby, I'm
Speaker 1: okay with what you did with John, and by the way,
Speaker 1: I kind of wish you had done it with me,
Speaker 1: or that I would have been able to do something
Speaker 1: like that when I was his age, And it just
Speaker 1: the ick factor, and I just kept thinking if this
Speaker 1: was reversed, if this was Carlos that had had an
Speaker 1: affair with a sixteen seventeen year old high school girl
Speaker 1: and those parents had come over, there's no way that that,
Speaker 1: you know, mom would have been going, oh, this is
Speaker 1: a great I wish this had happened to me when
Speaker 1: I was in high school. You know.
Speaker 2: Well, I think this made me think a lot about
Speaker 2: actually another macro theme of this episode, which is kind
Speaker 2: of generalized sexism, especially in terms of how it relates
Speaker 2: to men, because this is exactly what you're saying. This
Speaker 2: moment stood out to me a lot too. Of It's
Speaker 2: almost like, obviously John the Gardner's mom is livid, but
Speaker 2: his dad is almost like, well, this is permissible and cool.
Speaker 2: Because the subtext I read into that scene is Gabby's hot.
Speaker 3: Right, It's fine because look at you, You're so hot.
Speaker 2: I wish I'd been able to do something like you
Speaker 2: when I was my son's age. And this really trickles
Speaker 2: into the one other storyline, which I know we'll dive
Speaker 2: into all these storylines more and you know, use them
Speaker 2: as springboards for some larger conversations. But which is Lynette
Speaker 2: learning that Tom's dad is having an affair and the
Speaker 2: way that also not just the fact that he's having
Speaker 2: an affair, but.
Speaker 3: The comment at the top of the episode two when
Speaker 3: Parker's stuck up on the roof exactly and it won't
Speaker 3: come down, and he's like, let me take a stab
Speaker 3: at it and climb up to the ladder, and he
Speaker 3: uses motivating language such such as, don't be a girly girl.
Speaker 3: Are you a girly girl? Because only girly girls stay
Speaker 3: up on the roof and won't climb down the ladder.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm paraphrasing, but I know about you is
Speaker 3: girly girl.
Speaker 1: You know missus Tom's dad that's saying this to Tom's dad.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that enraged me.
Speaker 2: No, there are so yeah, so many themes of sexism.
Speaker 2: I mean also Rex having an affair being permissible versus
Speaker 2: bree it not being permissible that she's flirting with the
Speaker 2: pharmacist George. I also think about Susan being so worried
Speaker 2: about Julie, and she says to Paul when she confronts
Speaker 2: Paul about Julian Zach's relationship, she says, well, you're not
Speaker 2: worried about it, but I have to be worried about
Speaker 2: it because she's the girl.
Speaker 3: Right, Like you're the father of the boy, but I'm
Speaker 3: the mother of the girl.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, lots lots to dive into in terms of.
Speaker 3: Well take it away, Yeah, pick one, pick one of
Speaker 3: those categories. And let's let's talk about the Julie. Let's
Speaker 3: talk about the delays.
Speaker 1: Because you played Julie so fat, I have questions about
Speaker 1: do you remember doing these scenes with Cody, Like what
Speaker 1: was that? Like, can you tell us about that? I
Speaker 1: have very loose again like I did about the Edie
Speaker 1: Susan stuff, but I do kind of have loose memories
Speaker 1: about working him when when he has that explosion that
Speaker 1: throws to furniture. Yeah, but tell us about your relationship
Speaker 1: with him.
Speaker 3: I do remember I remember what it was like filming
Speaker 3: these scenes. I remember the intimacy of these scenes, having
Speaker 3: to kiss, you know, not knowing the timing of that,
Speaker 3: because Susan comes in on us kissing, so we being
Speaker 3: feeling a little bit awkward as to when do we
Speaker 3: start this? Do we start it before he says action,
Speaker 3: because it's it's supposed to be going on before you
Speaker 3: come in, you know. So I remember feeling very nervous
Speaker 3: about those things. I also remember, and I say this
Speaker 3: because I really enjoyed working with Cody, and I think
Speaker 3: he is a very talented actor, and I think we
Speaker 3: both really enjoyed working together. But I I will call
Speaker 3: him out on he was a smoker at the time,
Speaker 3: and maybe not like a big time smoker, but he
Speaker 3: would smoke and then we would have to kiss. And
Speaker 3: I was like, I was not in a position being
Speaker 3: young to say, hey, can you.
Speaker 1: Not do that?
Speaker 3: That was a thing for me.
Speaker 2: What was your age to friends, because this is a
Speaker 2: weird thing about child actors being cast in relationships with
Speaker 2: other actors playing kids.
Speaker 3: I think so I was fourteen at this time, and
Speaker 3: I think he was seventeen or eighteen. I know he
Speaker 3: had taken the SATs because I remember during the pilot
Speaker 3: when we were filming. I don't know if you remember this.
Speaker 3: I mean I think you remember this. But we kind
Speaker 3: of had a looser, weirder schedule with the pilot, Like
Speaker 3: I was called on days when I wasn't even necessarily
Speaker 3: on the schedule to work, but I was there, okay.
Speaker 3: And so we had a lot of time in that
Speaker 3: house that we filmed the wake at in Pasadena. I
Speaker 3: think we filmed it at Pasadena. And so at the time,
Speaker 3: I was in school, so I had to be doing
Speaker 3: the child labor laws, you know, studio teaching stuff. But
Speaker 3: Cody still was but he was annoyed about it because
Speaker 3: he was just about to take the SATs and so
Speaker 3: he was like, I'm basically done. I don't have to
Speaker 3: sit in here and do this, you know. So there
Speaker 3: was that age gap, so he was either seventeen or eighteen.
Speaker 1: Was there any like did he feel uncomfortable about having
Speaker 1: to kiss a fourteen year old? I don't or was
Speaker 1: it both like you were professional actors.
Speaker 3: I mean we both leaned on the side of wanting
Speaker 3: to be perceived as professional actors and approaching it like
Speaker 3: we are just adults doing our job. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I can't speak to if he felt. I imagine there
Speaker 3: probably was. In his real life. He wasn't probably kissing
Speaker 3: fourteen year old girls, so I imagine there was a
Speaker 3: little bit of awkwardness for him on that end. But also,
Speaker 3: as I've mentioned in other episodes where these things have
Speaker 3: come up, it was me playing out things that we
Speaker 3: were not happening to me yet.
Speaker 1: Had you technically at that point not kissed a boy.
Speaker 3: I had kissed, I had kissed a boy before, but
Speaker 3: I was in dating. You know, Julie and Zach are
Speaker 3: developing a little bit of a relationship. I hadn't done that.
Speaker 3: I hadn't, you know, gone to school dances because as
Speaker 3: I mentioned, I was alone on sect, just me in
Speaker 3: my shadow dancing in the trailer.
Speaker 1: Did give yourself a corso?
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no, no, but but but it's sweet seeing it.
Speaker 3: I think it's very sweet watching it back. It's kind
Speaker 3: of a weird insight I get to have. I guess
Speaker 3: we don't get to watch ourselves as a teenage kids
Speaker 3: kissing people or having awkward school dances.
Speaker 2: Which thank god.
Speaker 3: No, I mean for the majority of people, they're like,
Speaker 3: thank god, But I try to reframe it in the
Speaker 3: context of that's kind of cool. I get to see
Speaker 3: this secret little well.
Speaker 1: I think that other people to be impressed with how
Speaker 1: good you were, like and how I know, just how
Speaker 1: I feel like it was really honestly a fourteen year
Speaker 1: old where whereas like it was a middle of the
Speaker 1: country fourteen year old, as opposed to like euphoria where
Speaker 1: the fourteen year olds are what they're up to? Do
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? It was a real and
Speaker 1: I like that. I like how it worked within the show.
Speaker 1: Like I I didn't tell you were just great. I
Speaker 1: thought you were so great. So do you remember the
Speaker 1: actual kissing? I do? Do you remember any other? It
Speaker 1: makes me think because I have one onscreen kiss that
Speaker 1: stands out in my career that I probably have talked
Speaker 1: about somewhere. But to tell you, it was with Pierce
Speaker 1: Brosnan and it was in Tomorrow Never Dies. And it
Speaker 1: was when you were in that movie too, by the way,
Speaker 1: because I was pregnant, So maybe you have a reflection
Speaker 1: of this kiss also. I don't know. Oh yes, but
Speaker 1: we were, you know, having to kiss over and over,
Speaker 1: you know, in the scene and he sort of bit
Speaker 1: me like like like like I don't know, I'm sure
Speaker 1: that he didn't mean to, but whatever the structure, like
Speaker 1: like whatever the structure was, by the end of it,
Speaker 1: I was bleeding on the one side of my mouth, Like, yeah.
Speaker 3: I thought it was going to be like it was
Speaker 3: so good. I remember it because it was such a
Speaker 3: fabulous kiss. But but you remember it because you have
Speaker 3: a scar from it.
Speaker 1: I don't think it was that deep, but it was,
Speaker 1: like and I that's just interesting. And I remember feeling
Speaker 1: the power is dichotomy the right word of like he
Speaker 1: was James Bond, and I was like, this little actress
Speaker 1: who was just playing this small role was not about
Speaker 1: to pull anybody aside and go by the way, I
Speaker 1: think he's biting me. It's not very comfortable, like you know,
Speaker 1: you just I just tolerated it. Yeah, And it's just
Speaker 1: a weird like I'm it's a weird thing.
Speaker 3: It's a weird thing as part of our job to
Speaker 3: ever show up and kiss people.
Speaker 1: And I guess that's what I'm saying, like do you
Speaker 1: remember this kiss or other kisses? Like it is a
Speaker 1: weird part. I think if people want behind the scene,
Speaker 1: it's a weird part of your job. Any kind of
Speaker 1: sexual kissing or whatever.
Speaker 3: I remember feeling embarrassed doing it. I do remember, because
Speaker 3: I could. While I knew, Okay, this is your job
Speaker 3: on set today, I was still a fourteen year old
Speaker 3: girl who wasn't used to doing this. I didn't have
Speaker 3: the ability. When I work on things now as an
Speaker 3: adult and there's kissing scenes and there's things like that,
Speaker 3: it's such a different experience than doing it as a child.
Speaker 3: I remember the embarrassment of doing it in front of
Speaker 3: the crew. I remember the embarrassment of not wanting my
Speaker 3: mom to stand by the monitor and watch. I remember
Speaker 3: feeling my face get really hot.
Speaker 1: My face is hot right now, I'm telling you, I'm sure.
Speaker 3: And also just that thing of trying to trying to
Speaker 3: wire my brain to treat it just like any other
Speaker 3: scene with any other actor and not get caught up
Speaker 3: in the intimacy of it. But I wonder now, in
Speaker 3: today's climate, if people are more sensitive to the fact
Speaker 3: that miners are doing these things that are intimate for
Speaker 3: anyone of any age, but certainly those well they have
Speaker 3: intacy coaches.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, there's not a thing so I think
Speaker 1: neither of these scenarios would happen anymore, because I would
Speaker 1: go over to this person and I would say, listen,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be rude, and I'm sure he
Speaker 1: doesn't mean it. And he's a really nice guy and
Speaker 1: he's a fabulous acker, and he's James Bond, and he's
Speaker 1: James Bond. But something is happening that is resulting in
Speaker 1: me feeling like I'm getting cut on the inside of
Speaker 1: my mouth.
Speaker 2: Also, even before that, you would rehearse and talk through
Speaker 2: in depth the level of what you were going to
Speaker 2: do in the kiss. I mean, that is what intimacy
Speaker 2: coordinators are for now on set, and I just think
Speaker 2: there's so many more conversations happening around it. But I'm curious, okay,
Speaker 2: to the fact of your mom standing by the monitory
Speaker 2: and you feeling uncomfortable thematically, And I also really want
Speaker 2: to hear what you remember, mom about filming from your
Speaker 2: perspective these scenes where Susan is really essentially saying Julie
Speaker 2: is too young to be having this type of relationship.
Speaker 3: She mentions her age twice in this episode.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what are your thoughts now on is fourteen too
Speaker 2: young to be having your first kiss? That is kind
Speaker 2: of I mean, honestly, sometimes twelve, like around that time
Speaker 2: that I think kids start to experiment with stuff like that,
Speaker 2: and how difficult is it to navigate your child's sexuality
Speaker 2: as a parent. I don't necessarily mean you know who
Speaker 2: they are attracted to, but the fact that they are
Speaker 2: exploring what it means to be and.
Speaker 1: You're almost twenty eight and I can't imagine what you're
Speaker 1: doing now.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm glad.
Speaker 1: You're not right. No, I think it's I think it's
Speaker 1: really tricky. I mean, I think within the show and
Speaker 1: on the set, I was very much of a second mom,
Speaker 1: and I mean at least I took that role on
Speaker 1: and wanting to make sure that you were okay, set detected,
Speaker 1: and so I think I've probably felt that way. But also,
Speaker 1: I mean, feel free to talk about like I'm pretty
Speaker 1: conservative in this area. I think. I also feel like
Speaker 1: females have great consequence to when they begin to explore
Speaker 1: their sexuality, and I think the consequence that is weighted
Speaker 1: in against the female, you know, isn't also bolstered by
Speaker 1: their mental judgment, and I think that can lead to
Speaker 1: difficult consequences that are going to end up in a
Speaker 1: girl's lap. As opposed to the boys. And I know
Speaker 1: Susan makes that point, like that's what she's saying, but
Speaker 1: I think I think I probably also raised you from
Speaker 1: that point of view. Listen, when you're a mom and
Speaker 1: you're going to find this out. It is a crazy
Speaker 1: thing to have two things working at the same time,
Speaker 1: which is one you're trying to create and grow and
Speaker 1: be a part of posturing up, you know, propping up
Speaker 1: a beautiful, independent, well rounded, capable human being, and on
Speaker 1: the other hand, you're like, please never leave your room.
Speaker 1: I'd like to be in control of you for the
Speaker 1: rest of my life. Like it is basically both happening
Speaker 1: at the same time, and so it is a very
Speaker 1: odd thing where you're trying to marry an understanding that
Speaker 1: part of growing up is beginning to be curious about
Speaker 1: sexual things, but also knowing that your frontal lobe doesn't
Speaker 1: fully develop until you're twenty five. And then when you
Speaker 1: complicate it with governmental things like you're allowed to drive
Speaker 1: at sixteen, which I find insane, but you can't you
Speaker 1: can vote at eighteen, but you can't drink until twenty one.
Speaker 1: Like it's all mashed up in a way that I
Speaker 1: don't think makes a lot of sense, right.
Speaker 3: Like the metrics for when someone's old enough to do
Speaker 3: one thing versus another don't really line up, and so
Speaker 3: a parent has to make those decisions for themselves. Do
Speaker 3: you remember how old you were when you started dating?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, I have so much to say about that,
Speaker 2: because I was cracking up about Susan. In some ways,
Speaker 2: Susan's response to Julie, the way she is so protective
Speaker 2: did actually remind me of you as a mom when
Speaker 2: I was around Julie's age, And I think it's like
Speaker 2: one of the few times that I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: that actually sort of feels like I could see Terry,
Speaker 2: my mom, like having a similar reaction now, I Emerson,
Speaker 2: Terry's daughter would never have had the balls to be
Speaker 2: kissing someone at the kitchen table where just anyone couldn't
Speaker 2: walk in and see.
Speaker 1: At your dad's house, probably maybe, I mean, I do
Speaker 1: think that benefits as right, you have a second house
Speaker 1: to go to with.
Speaker 2: Truly, it's so interesting because Mom, you and I are
Speaker 2: so close now, and like, as an adult, I think
Speaker 2: we talk about sex and dating. I mean, you know,
Speaker 2: not the graphic any you know, whatever, details of life.
Speaker 3: Communication is very open.
Speaker 2: It's very open, and I did not feel that way
Speaker 2: when we when I was you know, twelve, thirteen, fourteen, fifteen, sixteen, seventeen, eighteen,
Speaker 2: maybe even I feel like, well around eighteen, like around
Speaker 2: the time I went off to college, I feel like
Speaker 2: that became more of a part of our relationship. But
Speaker 2: I do think when I was younger, and it makes
Speaker 2: sense that I think you for various ways that you
Speaker 2: grew up and things that you dealt with as a
Speaker 2: young child like that you would take a maybe more
Speaker 2: protective bent on dating. Does not mean I didn't date
Speaker 2: and talk about the benefits of divorce. I think sometimes
Speaker 2: a guy would ask me to hang out when I
Speaker 2: was in like early high school, and I'd be like,
Speaker 2: ask me next weekend.
Speaker 1: Uras comes out on a podcast, but clever.
Speaker 2: I you know, it's funny that you mentioned Cody and
Speaker 2: yours age difference because actually, and this is now, I
Speaker 2: as a twenty eight year old, am cringing at this guy.
Speaker 2: I mean, he was a perfectly nice first official boyfriend. Okay,
Speaker 2: was a senior when I was a freshman in high school,
Speaker 2: and I that is a round. I mean I think
Speaker 2: I was fifteen, but that is like around the age difference.
Speaker 2: And then we actually even dated into when I was
Speaker 2: a sophomore in high school and he was a freshman
Speaker 2: in college. I mean briefly, that only lasted a couple
Speaker 2: of months.
Speaker 1: Do I know who this is? You don't know.
Speaker 2: We went to the state where he went to college
Speaker 2: together to visit him. He came to a fancy restaurant.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, okay, yeah. I think I did feel weird
Speaker 1: about that.
Speaker 2: At the time. No, and now as an adult, I
Speaker 2: look back on that and I think, you know, of course,
Speaker 2: why did I let that happen. I don't know. I mean,
Speaker 2: we went to the same school, that is how, that's
Speaker 2: how we knew each other. But and I felt very
Speaker 2: mature for my age or whatever. But I do think,
Speaker 2: I mean, I think that's a strange age gup. And
Speaker 2: now that was not I wasn't sleeping with him. I mean,
Speaker 2: I think, you know, it was still tame. It was
Speaker 2: still tame. But I do think that is just it's
Speaker 2: a very interesting I have so many kind of around
Speaker 2: that time. First kiss. I remember even before that, like
Speaker 2: in the arc Light, back when arc Light was a
Speaker 2: movie theater still in Los Angeles, going with two of
Speaker 2: my best girlfriends and they brought some guy and like
Speaker 2: his friends from their school. We didn't go to the
Speaker 2: same school, and it was like, Oh, we're all going
Speaker 2: to go see Looper, but actually we're going to make
Speaker 2: out in the back of the movie theater, something I
Speaker 2: never do because I don't want to miss the movie.
Speaker 3: Now, Yeah, I think it's interesting because this is bleeding
Speaker 3: into another storyline in this episode a little bit, which
Speaker 3: is in this instance, in the Jewel Zac Susan Paul thing,
Speaker 3: we're kind of talking about parents inserting themselves into their
Speaker 3: children's relationships, which is different. But in the Lynette and
Speaker 3: Tom and his dad storyline, you have Lynette inserting herself
Speaker 3: into his father's relationship. And I thought this was I
Speaker 3: thought there was a lot to talk about here. Obviously,
Speaker 3: Lynette is horrified to learn that Tom's dad is having
Speaker 3: an affair. She has a lot of feelings about it.
Speaker 3: She's a little bit appalled by Tom's lack of reaction.
Speaker 3: She then learns that he's known about it, not this
Speaker 3: specific one, but other affairs, and it opens up this
Speaker 3: whole line of conversation between the two of them about
Speaker 3: affairs and how he feels about his dad and all
Speaker 3: of that, but it did make me curious for you, guys,
Speaker 3: if you've ever been in a position where you've had
Speaker 3: to or felt a desire to offer an opinion on
Speaker 3: someone else's relationship that you're close with.
Speaker 1: I think the only time this ever came up for
Speaker 1: me was I had a friend who had been in
Speaker 1: a long term marriage and the husband was revealed to
Speaker 1: have fall in love with another woman and was having
Speaker 1: an affair. And what I remember mostly is that all
Speaker 1: of her friends were like, get divorced, get divorced, get divorced,
Speaker 1: Like it was just immediately that that, you know, just
Speaker 1: get divorced, and I wasn't sure that she wanted to
Speaker 1: get divorced, and so I feel like I was the
Speaker 1: one friend at the time who sort of held space
Speaker 1: for it to be okay, for her to process this
Speaker 1: how she needed to. And I think what they ultimately
Speaker 1: ended up doing was a lot of years of trust rebuilding,
Speaker 1: but ultimately stayed together. And you know, I have a
Speaker 1: lot of I'm in respect for that because I'm sure
Speaker 1: that took a lot of work and bravery and vulnerability
Speaker 1: on both of their parts. But it shows me as
Speaker 1: an example that affairs can be conquered. And also I
Speaker 1: looked at this part of the story, you know, when
Speaker 1: Tom reveals that the mom has basically not necessarily been
Speaker 1: in on it, but sort of like in their words,
Speaker 1: I think like kind of made her peace with this
Speaker 1: is her husband's behavior, and this is he goes out
Speaker 1: and he has these relationships with this woman or that woman,
Speaker 1: and that you know, it's sort of okay with her.
Speaker 1: And we don't meet her, so we don't know if
Speaker 1: that's really true or not. But what it did make
Speaker 1: me think is like we can be very judgmental about
Speaker 1: how what is the right way to be in a relationship,
Speaker 1: and I think that that is a mistake. I think
Speaker 1: that in general, we are all too hard on each other,
Speaker 1: too judgmental of each other. You just don't know what
Speaker 1: people are going through, and we should all just lead
Speaker 1: with a lot more, just give people some grace because
Speaker 1: you just don't know. And it's also none of your business.
Speaker 3: It's people's relationship. It's their rules that they're comfortable with,
Speaker 3: it's the contract that they entered into, and it's very individual.
Speaker 3: Every relationship is so unique to the two people or
Speaker 3: three or four however many are involved.
Speaker 1: I mean I always tell, you know, bringing it back
Speaker 1: to politics a little bit, like something that had been
Speaker 1: going on like in the last year for Emerson. And
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think I'm speaking out of turn
Speaker 1: to talk about this, but no, I what you're about
Speaker 1: to say bringing up like how you were having a
Speaker 1: lot of anxiety about gay people's ability to get married
Speaker 1: in the US and is that something that's at risk,
Speaker 1: and yes it is and where is that going and
Speaker 1: what can anybody do about it? And I along with
Speaker 1: just sharing the anxiety about me not being on the
Speaker 1: side of thinking that that's reasonable, but beyond that, I
Speaker 1: would say to Emerson, set aside that issue. I have
Speaker 1: never I have been saying this for forty years. I
Speaker 1: don't think the government should be involved in anyone's marriage,
Speaker 1: Like I just don't see it as a governmental thing.
Speaker 1: And the only reason I think it became it like
Speaker 1: decades ago, was in order for the government to get
Speaker 1: taxes or you know, get like it became a financial thing,
Speaker 1: which has nothing to do with the the honoring, the resolution,
Speaker 1: the commitment, the spirituality, the community of your wedding and
Speaker 1: the people that are committed to supporting you as a couple.
Speaker 1: Like all of that is so beautiful and so worthwhiled,
Speaker 1: but has nothing to do with the government. So I'm
Speaker 1: just sort of like, get married, but don't involve the
Speaker 1: government anyway. You know. That's my two sents.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean I agree. I agree that I
Speaker 2: think the central component to me of a marriage and
Speaker 2: of that contract you decide to enter into with someone
Speaker 2: is to say we are going to we want to
Speaker 2: go through this life together, you know. And I think
Speaker 2: we do live in a country and generally marriage is
Speaker 2: set up now, so yes, they're benefits. There are laws
Speaker 2: around if you're visiting in a hospital, if you're you know,
Speaker 2: and I think that everyone who is in any type
Speaker 2: of committed partnership should just that should be recognized. I
Speaker 2: recognize that that is maybe you know why the government
Speaker 2: is involved, and it's obviously very upsetting that, you know,
Speaker 2: we have a government that wants to recognize those types
Speaker 2: of rights but for certain individuals and not for others,
Speaker 2: when really it's about who do you want to choose
Speaker 2: to be your support system through life? I mean, I
Speaker 2: really think that is. You know, you choose that in
Speaker 2: your friends, and then you say, okay, I want my
Speaker 2: primary point person to be this person and maybe.
Speaker 3: It has really come into play in important ways in
Speaker 3: your life. It can and see those barriers regardless of
Speaker 3: whether or not we think it's right or wrong. We
Speaker 3: do live in a society where the government is involved,
Speaker 3: and so that access that we grant some is so necessary,
Speaker 3: and when we decide that other people don't deserve it
Speaker 3: is just so un fair, soul crushing and unreasonable. And yeah,
Speaker 3: I had a personal experience that I found really impactful
Speaker 3: in my early twenties with a friend of mine who
Speaker 3: was dating someone who was not treating her well. And
Speaker 3: I had witnessed him not treating her well enough times,
Speaker 3: and I'd had a lot of conversations with her about it.
Speaker 3: She and I are very very close. She'd come to
Speaker 3: me a lot about it. I'd given her about all
Speaker 3: of the advice that I felt like I could. I
Speaker 3: didn't have any more to give, And the last thing
Speaker 3: that I could do was sort of recognize that I
Speaker 3: can't control what she does, and it is very much
Speaker 3: her decision. If she wants to continue putting up with it,
Speaker 3: and if she sees the value out weighing the negatives,
Speaker 3: then that's her choice. The only thing I can do
Speaker 3: is control my what I can tolerate, and I can't
Speaker 3: tolerate being a witness to it anymore. So therefore I
Speaker 3: support you, I love you, I'm here for you, but
Speaker 3: I'm not here for the relationship. So I won't be
Speaker 3: around that person. And she is told me that by
Speaker 3: me taking that level of a stance of saying I
Speaker 3: won't be around them, it really changed everything for her
Speaker 3: and she could just totally, you know, accept and see
Speaker 3: fully that this wasn't a healthy relationship anymore. So anyway,
Speaker 3: that's my example.
Speaker 1: That's because I could see that backfiring on your friendship too.
Speaker 3: I could do it was a risk, it was a
Speaker 3: big risk.
Speaker 1: That's that's interesting. Yeah, And I think that's brave that
Speaker 1: you put yourself out there like that.
Speaker 3: I loved her and I still love her, and I
Speaker 3: just wanted better for her.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's really interesting in terms of the
Speaker 2: line that we see Lynette take with Tom's dad. I mean,
Speaker 2: first it's and it's such a good comedic feat that
Speaker 2: she puts him out on the curb, and then you
Speaker 2: see her and Tom kind of have more of an
Speaker 2: argument about it, and then we cut to immediately Tom
Speaker 2: out on the curb, sitting next to his dad, and
Speaker 2: eventually they they let him back in. But I feel
Speaker 2: like Lynette is saying a version of what you said
Speaker 2: of you know what you are saying, And I am
Speaker 2: personally I am a big believer in the idea that
Speaker 2: you know they talk about maybe Tom's dad's or Tom's
Speaker 2: dad's wife knows to some degree that these this affair
Speaker 2: is happening. And I really do believe energetically or cosmically
Speaker 2: that everybody kind of knows everything. I mean not to
Speaker 2: say that, obviously, it is our responsibility to communicate our needs,
Speaker 2: and people are not mind readers, and people are very
Speaker 2: capable of keeping secrets. But I do think if you're
Speaker 2: thinking about who is the kind of person who has
Speaker 2: an affair over the course of many years of their marriage, you.
Speaker 1: Feel like you know who that is.
Speaker 2: Well, it's hard for me to believe that their partner
Speaker 2: doesn't know, Yeah, Noor, she did know, or is completely
Speaker 2: blindsided by that information. But Lynette is saying, whatever you
Speaker 2: have worked out with your family and what they are
Speaker 2: willing to tolerate, I'm not willing to tolerate that. And
Speaker 2: that seems to really stick with Tom in a way
Speaker 2: that it's that he is maybe hiding something. Yea, we're
Speaker 2: gonna find out that's making him extra nervous. At first,
Speaker 2: I got scared.
Speaker 3: I forgot. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know either, but it did make it seem
Speaker 1: like maybe Tom had already had an affair.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it made me think, And Mom, you and
Speaker 2: I talk about this a lot. What is the line
Speaker 2: of how much you think our parents are a reflection
Speaker 2: of who we are as people, Like I remember really distinctly.
Speaker 2: I think when you're young, you know, when you're Julie's
Speaker 2: age and or Zach's age, and there's so much embarrassment
Speaker 2: around anything that your parent does, like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: don't speak to me in the carpool line when you
Speaker 2: pick me up from school. Just keep the windows up.
Speaker 2: I remember, like with my dad once he took me
Speaker 2: to Starbucks in the morning before school. We were standing
Speaker 2: in line. He loves the story, and his phone dings
Speaker 2: and he looks at his phone and I'm standing in
Speaker 2: front of him in line, and I have texted him, Dad,
Speaker 2: all my friends are here, don't do anything. I don't
Speaker 2: do anything, do anyone in order? And I think, you know,
Speaker 2: we shed a lot of that embarrassment that we feel
Speaker 2: in our teenage years when we come to realize that
Speaker 2: our parents' actions are not a reflection of our actions,
Speaker 2: and that everyone is their own person.
Speaker 1: I think this leads in a little bit to Mary
Speaker 1: Alice has all of you know, she always has her
Speaker 1: overarching view of everyone on Westeria Lane, and in this
Speaker 1: episode she says, sooner or later, time comes to be
Speaker 1: a responsible adult, to give up what you may want
Speaker 1: and do what is right. And it makes me think,
Speaker 1: do you think becoming a responsible adult means giving up
Speaker 1: the life that you want to go after? Which I
Speaker 1: bring it up now because I agree that by extension,
Speaker 1: there becomes a time when you're going from childhood into
Speaker 1: adulthood taking on responsibility that you can choose to be
Speaker 1: your parents or not. And some times that has to
Speaker 1: be a very conscious I mean, I spent a lot
Speaker 1: of my adult life going I am not my mother,
Speaker 1: I am not my mother, I am not going to
Speaker 1: be my mother, and I know you, and then sometimes
Speaker 1: I go, oh, my god, I'm my mother, and and
Speaker 1: it makes me want to, you know, punish myself, because
Speaker 1: there's a lot of qualities in my mother that are
Speaker 1: not great, and I don't want to emulate. I mean,
Speaker 1: there's parts of her that are great, but like, I
Speaker 1: don't want to be my mother, and I think so
Speaker 1: kind of, I'm sort of answering your question too, which is,
Speaker 1: I think you can elevate beyond who your parents are
Speaker 1: and what you've witnessed as a role model. But I
Speaker 1: don't know. Do you think becoming an adult means letting
Speaker 1: go of what you want?
Speaker 2: I think not. Yeah, i'mar and sweet, No, I don't. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 2: I marked this moment too, because I think I actually
Speaker 2: see friends of mine and people I know whose parents
Speaker 2: seem to have this belief that it is immature to
Speaker 2: be pursuing what you want to do, and that that's like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: that's rivolous to try to build a career or build
Speaker 2: a life around what you want, Like you're such a child.
Speaker 2: What you actually should do is commit to something stable
Speaker 2: that you don't like that much, but it pays your bills.
Speaker 2: That's being an adult, Because that's being an adult. And
Speaker 2: I think, God, I'm sorry for my friends have so
Speaker 2: much dismantling to do from their parents' belief systems in
Speaker 2: order to have a happy life. Because I disagree. I
Speaker 2: I mean, I entirely disagree. I think being an adult
Speaker 2: is maybe learning how to take responsibility for your actions,
Speaker 2: learning that your actions don't exist in a vacuum. There's consequences, yeah,
Speaker 2: and that what you do affects the other people around.
Speaker 3: You, and there's compromise. Sometimes you have to do things
Speaker 3: you don't want to do. It's not a living a
Speaker 3: life of indulgence or living a life of selfishness, right,
Speaker 3: It's that there's trade off. Sometimes you have to do
Speaker 3: something you don't want to do because it's necessary, or
Speaker 3: it benefits someone else, or you have an obligation to
Speaker 3: meet or whatever. That as being an adult, but it's
Speaker 3: don't enjoy your life, give up the things that you
Speaker 3: want to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, I think that responsibility also really does
Speaker 2: have to be balanced with the fact that, at least
Speaker 2: personally for me, I believe this is our one life.
Speaker 2: You know, it is a huge gift that we ended
Speaker 2: up in human form, in this life, in this moment,
Speaker 2: and to some degree, I think you're entitled to enjoy
Speaker 2: your life. I think that you know, being born into
Speaker 2: this world gives you that entitlement.
Speaker 1: And do you know that every night when I go
Speaker 1: to sleep, Like people will ask me if I meditate,
Speaker 1: and the version of meditating that I do. When I
Speaker 1: go to sleep, I put my head on the pillow
Speaker 1: and all the lights are off and I and I
Speaker 1: start reflecting on what I was grateful for in that day.
Speaker 2: And it could be the.
Speaker 1: Littlest thing, you know, like the feeling of the pillow
Speaker 1: on my I already told you I'm devoted to my pillow,
Speaker 1: the feeling of the pillow, or like like it that
Speaker 1: I got to have two real deep conversations with two
Speaker 1: different girlfriends on one day, which never happens, you know,
Speaker 1: and and or you know, I saw a bird or
Speaker 1: I ate the hash browns or whatever. But it those
Speaker 1: conscious acknowledgments of the moments that your life is made
Speaker 1: of and the ones that you enjoy, I think start
Speaker 1: to define like that you're having a life you want
Speaker 1: to have.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was another Mary Alice line that I flagged
Speaker 3: from this episode that I just kind of caught a
Speaker 3: double entendre that I'm not sure I would have the
Speaker 3: first go around for myself, which was I think it
Speaker 3: might be the last line in the episode. She says,
Speaker 3: sooner or later, we must all become responsible adults. No
Speaker 3: one knows this better than the young. And she says
Speaker 3: this as it's right after Julian Zach meet back up
Speaker 3: against their parents' wishes and whatever. But their last name
Speaker 3: being young Mary Alice Young Zach Young landed with me,
Speaker 3: and I was so. I was kind of emotional about
Speaker 3: it because it became we listened to Mary Alice give
Speaker 3: us this insight, and her narrations serve so many plot
Speaker 3: devices and furthering the storyline and also just giving us
Speaker 3: so much wisdom throughout. But she is also watching the
Speaker 3: lives of her friends and her exit or her husband
Speaker 3: and her son, and so when she says that no
Speaker 3: one knows this better than the young, it just really
Speaker 3: struck me that or if they meant it that way,
Speaker 3: I feel like with our writers that faces and they
Speaker 3: must have, but I don't know that they needed everyone
Speaker 3: to catch it, or maybe everyone did and I just didn't.
Speaker 3: I certainly did this time, and I thought it was
Speaker 3: you beautiful that connection.
Speaker 2: I didn't and as their last name nobody, I so
Speaker 2: am now and I have to say this episode and Mom,
Speaker 2: the scene that Susan has with Paul because they meet
Speaker 2: up back in the dance venue where the school dance has.
Speaker 3: Happened as Sportsman's Lodge.
Speaker 1: Fyo, remember lodge for which is now where arewana is
Speaker 1: where you can get a forty dollars smoothie and for you.
Speaker 2: No, but I mean Zach and Paul and and Paul
Speaker 2: and Susan's dynamic in this episode really just it sang
Speaker 2: to me a lot. And then the way that you know,
Speaker 2: Susan and Paul have this moment dancing to what is
Speaker 2: the song Dustin?
Speaker 1: And that made me I love that song, but it
Speaker 1: also made me I don't want to get in the
Speaker 1: way of your point, but it did make me want
Speaker 1: to talk about playlists and which you know and just
Speaker 1: music and what it does to you because that I
Speaker 1: couldn't believe that that was the song. And it also
Speaker 1: I was like they paid for that song. I was
Speaker 1: sort of surprised, Yes, go ahead.
Speaker 2: It was a beautiful scene where you feel Susan towing
Speaker 2: the line of how much is Paul going to tell
Speaker 2: her because she doesn't actually know what Zach has done yet.
Speaker 2: In that scene, it's like fishing, yeah, and then we
Speaker 2: find out what Zach has done maybe maybe he actually
Speaker 2: hasn't killed his sister. He's been led to believe he
Speaker 2: killed his sister. And now and I said, oh my god,
Speaker 2: this show should not have been set on Wisteria Lane.
Speaker 2: It should have been set on blackmail Lane, because everyone
Speaker 2: is blackmailing everyone now Zach' mysteria lane. Now Zach is
Speaker 2: blackmailing Paul to not move so he can stay in
Speaker 2: this relationship with Julie. And you have Susan confront Zach
Speaker 2: before him and Julie run to meet up for that
Speaker 2: very last scene of the episode. And I really I
Speaker 2: was kind of haunted by the scene at the end
Speaker 2: with Julian Zach, but also the scene prior between Susan and.
Speaker 1: Zach.
Speaker 3: Oh, Zach, oh in the kitchen.
Speaker 2: We're in the kitchen, And I wanted to know. I mean,
Speaker 2: I know we've talked about your first kiss and being
Speaker 2: a parent and navigating that, but do you remember filming
Speaker 2: that scene? Because I just thought, gosh, how challenging to
Speaker 2: have a child who maybe suffers from mental illness. How
Speaker 2: challenging to have a child dating a child who has
Speaker 2: a predictable behavior, you know, whether that has anything to
Speaker 2: do with underlying conditions or not. And I thought you
Speaker 2: handled that scene so well as an actor, Mom, But
Speaker 2: do you remember anything about that? It was really intense.
Speaker 1: Again, I'm gonna say that, you know, Unfortunately I don't
Speaker 1: other than like what comes through me, like what resonates
Speaker 1: is that, Yes, it was intense, and I feel like
Speaker 1: Cody and I had each other's backs. I feel like
Speaker 1: this is the same thing I was saying about Nicolette
Speaker 1: and in the Edie Susan scene where they take the
Speaker 1: ashes out, Like sometimes I'm not remembering the specificity of
Speaker 1: like what might have gone wrong or what might have
Speaker 1: been funny, like you know, did the cabinet not fall
Speaker 1: over the right way one time or whatever, Like I'm
Speaker 1: not remembering those things, but I'm remembering an overall sense
Speaker 1: of like that is a scary place to go to,
Speaker 1: like as an actor, And that's the fun of being
Speaker 1: an actor that you get you get led on these
Speaker 1: different journeys depending on what the character's story is. But
Speaker 1: when you know as the actor that you're gonna have
Speaker 1: to go to this place, like, I agree with you.
Speaker 1: I thought it was played well. I thought what I
Speaker 1: saw in Susan was like I really want to be
Speaker 1: respectful about how is there a way for everybody to
Speaker 1: get a win, like, can Julie have what she wants?
Speaker 1: Can Zac have what he wants? Can Susan still feels safe?
Speaker 1: Like I kind of saw that until he throws the thing,
Speaker 1: and then it's like and she says, thank you for
Speaker 1: making this so easy on me, and I actually love
Speaker 1: I mean, that felt like a very true moment too,
Speaker 1: whenever you're like having a difficulty with somebody and then
Speaker 1: they do something that's so egregious that all you can
Speaker 1: think is, I'm not mad about the egregious thing you
Speaker 1: just did. I'm just super happy that you just did it,
Speaker 1: because now this is not hard for me at all,
Speaker 1: And there's like relief in that because it's permission.
Speaker 3: It's permission to just go with your instinct and you
Speaker 3: don't have to worry about how the other person feels anymore,
Speaker 3: sort of because they just did something that made it
Speaker 3: very clear cut.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: But I feel like it would be interesting to talk
Speaker 1: to Cody because I feel like I kind of recall
Speaker 1: again and maybe this is just like my angle of
Speaker 1: like the way I at least am remembering what it's
Speaker 1: like to act in something like that long ago. But
Speaker 1: I feel like we both were probably really trying to
Speaker 1: find the subtlety in.
Speaker 3: It all, and Cody was I mean, Cody was a
Speaker 3: very committed actor. He took his job very seriously. He
Speaker 3: showed up with ideas, he showed up prepared, and he
Speaker 3: was intense. When in those scenes where he had to
Speaker 3: be intense, he took them very seriously. He felt a
Speaker 3: big responsibility to play those out. So I can imagine
Speaker 3: it was an intense moment to film as well, because
Speaker 3: he probably thought about it a lot and done quite
Speaker 3: a lot of prep prior to showing up.
Speaker 2: It makes me think about another big theme that emerged
Speaker 2: for me towards the end of this episode, the idea
Speaker 2: of how relationships and the relationships we have to other
Speaker 2: people can sometimes cloud and make it difficult to know
Speaker 2: what we need as individuals. You know, in the relation
Speaker 2: to John and Gabby's relationship, John has clouded his idea
Speaker 2: of what going to college means because he's thinking about
Speaker 2: his relationship with Gabby and maybe not about what's best
Speaker 2: for him as an individual. We see Rex and Brie
Speaker 2: in their divorce. Brie seems really steadfast on saying this
Speaker 2: is what I need as an individual, and Rex is
Speaker 2: trying to still think about them as a unit, and
Speaker 2: we have.
Speaker 3: How those tables have turned. Now he wants the relationship
Speaker 3: to maybe work, and she's checked out. Now she's decided
Speaker 3: it's no longer going to serve her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and Julie and Zach, I mean, I question what
Speaker 2: Julie wants because I feel like Zach is really leading
Speaker 2: their relationship along, even though we know that Julie cares
Speaker 2: about him. And Yeah, I'm just curious. Have you ever
Speaker 2: either of you felt like I think you know? It
Speaker 2: can be both. A relationship can be really supportive of
Speaker 2: your individuality, but it can also make it harder to
Speaker 2: maybe identify or advocate for what those individual needs are.
Speaker 2: Do you feel like you've experienced a version of that
Speaker 2: or have any thoughts on that?
Speaker 3: In relation to this, when two people are in a
Speaker 3: relationship who are very similar versus seeking out relationships where
Speaker 3: you're different from one another, I don't know which is
Speaker 3: I think it depends on the person, right. Sometimes people
Speaker 3: like to be with people who are very similar with
Speaker 3: a lot of shared interests, and sometimes it's better for
Speaker 3: those to maintain their individuality by being with people who
Speaker 3: are very different from them. I think it's very common
Speaker 3: for people to lose a sense of individuality or identity
Speaker 3: in a relationship, and it can be very damaging because
Speaker 3: the relationships with ourselves have to be at the forefront
Speaker 3: of our lives so that we can offer a full
Speaker 3: person to someone else. And I think that I've been
Speaker 3: in relationships where I've been very similar with the partner,
Speaker 3: and for me personally, it has been more fulfilling to
Speaker 3: me to be with someone who is different, different than
Speaker 3: I am. Not in always and the core ways to
Speaker 3: have a lot of similar values and morals and things
Speaker 3: like that, but interests being different. The way we react
Speaker 3: to things being different, I feel like allows me to
Speaker 3: feel a sense of individuality. But I get to learn
Speaker 3: all the time from the other person, and I love that.
Speaker 3: And I learned things about myself, for good and bad,
Speaker 3: that I think are really valuable to the maintenance and
Speaker 3: longevity of a relationship. And just another thing about the
Speaker 3: John Gabby thing, because I thought it was so interesting.
Speaker 3: We see him propose to her, which is wild. He
Speaker 3: proposes by saying, miss is so long, you're getting You're
Speaker 3: not getting it. Can't even call her by her first name.
Speaker 3: But then we learn because the parents come back. The
Speaker 3: dad comes back for that final scene to confront and
Speaker 3: she's his mom says, where's the ring? Where's my grandmother's ring?
Speaker 3: So we learned that Gabrielle did. She say, yes, I
Speaker 3: don't understand what happened there.
Speaker 2: She left the ring.
Speaker 1: No, she took it.
Speaker 3: She took it because they came. The parents came to say,
Speaker 3: where is our grandmother's ring? And she says something like, I.
Speaker 1: Think she took it because they need money.
Speaker 3: Oh, I thought, she Oh, that's interesting. I hadn't even
Speaker 3: given that a thought.
Speaker 1: I thought she was thinking she was going to sell it.
Speaker 2: Maybe I thought that she left it on the table.
Speaker 1: We had to read it.
Speaker 3: We have to have another rewatching to figure out what
Speaker 3: really happened.
Speaker 2: I thought she left it on the table and she said,
Speaker 2: I never really loved you and I Actually this scene
Speaker 2: stood out to me a lot. I thought this was
Speaker 2: such an interesting scene to write when thinking about Gabby's character,
Speaker 2: because obviously I can't speak for Eva as an actor,
Speaker 2: but I feel that in the writing of this scene,
Speaker 2: Gabby is being asked for the first time to really
Speaker 2: look at the consequences of what she's done. That now
Speaker 2: here is this kid, throwing away his life and future.
Speaker 3: She finally sees him as a kid maybe well to
Speaker 3: be with.
Speaker 2: Her, and that she has I think she has really
Speaker 2: loved him, and I think the kind of theme of
Speaker 2: you know, we give up what we want to do,
Speaker 2: what is right, this idea that maybe we disagree with
Speaker 2: what it is that that's what Gabby is doing in
Speaker 2: that scene. I think she does love him, but I
Speaker 2: think she knows saying I was never in love with
Speaker 2: you will make him let go of the idea of
Speaker 2: their relationship in a way that will let him have
Speaker 2: a future and that does have hope. And that's the
Speaker 2: adult thing for her to do, which which I was
Speaker 2: happy to finally see her do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a redeeming moment for her character.
Speaker 1: Well that's a good way to end this episode. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think everybody, everybody being their most adult self. And
Speaker 1: so then the three of us are going to go
Speaker 1: adult this week, and then we'll see each other next week,
Speaker 1: and we'll see you guys next week too, because we
Speaker 1: are desperately devoted to you.
Speaker 2: Sound Na