1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,120 Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Mango here. With summer winding down, we 2 00:00:03,160 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 1: are taking a little break, but we will be back 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: with brand new episodes starting September ninth, and we have 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: been working hard on so many fun episodes this summer. 5 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 1: I cannot wait for you to listen to them. In 6 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: the meantime, we are re airing our countdown of the 7 00:00:18,600 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: twenty five greatest science ideas of the past twenty five years. 8 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:26,439 Speaker 1: This list was so joyous to make. Mary and Gabe 9 00:00:26,480 --> 00:00:29,639 Speaker 1: did all this extra research for it. We pulled in 10 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: contributors for various places. We got incredible songs written for 11 00:00:33,880 --> 00:00:37,639 Speaker 1: the show. The whole thing is bizarre and delightful and 12 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:42,200 Speaker 1: fascinating and joyous, and honestly, I just hope you enjoy 13 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: it half as much as we enjoyed making it. Let's 14 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 1: dig in. You're listening to Part Time Genius, the production 15 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. Guess what Will? 16 00:00:58,320 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 2: What's that? Mango. 17 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: We've been counting down the twenty five best science ideas 18 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: of the past twenty five years, and today is exact phonology. 19 00:01:07,480 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 2: This is it. 20 00:01:08,160 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 3: We have four stories left, which makes me feel a 21 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 3: little weird that we didn't do exactly five in every episode. 22 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 2: But I've somehow moved on from that, and. 23 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 3: To give you a sense of what's coming today, let's 24 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 3: say that you'll never look at a mosquito, a mushroom, 25 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 3: or a wet. 26 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 2: Book the same way. 27 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 3: Again, you thought you were always going to look at 28 00:01:26,200 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 3: those things the same way. And if you're unlucky enough 29 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:30,760 Speaker 3: to have a roommate or a partner who snores, guess what, 30 00:01:31,240 --> 00:01:32,880 Speaker 3: we have found a way to fix that. 31 00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: Amazing, So I hope you guys are as excited as 32 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: we are. Let's dive in. 33 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 3: Hey, their podcast listener is welcome to Part Time Genius. 34 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 3: I'm Will Pearson and as always I'm joined by my 35 00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 3: good friend Mangesh hot Ticketter. 36 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 2: And over there in the booth icing an enormous cake. 37 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 2: Like enormous, does it even do it justice? 38 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 3: It is a gigantic That is our palain producer Dylan Fagan. 39 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 2: I had no idea Dylan was a pastry. 40 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: Chef for me either, but that is one beautiful cake. 41 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: There's writing on it too, It says make sure you're 42 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: subscribed to Part Time Genius on your favorite podcast app 43 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: and if you like the show, please leave us a 44 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,560 Speaker 1: five star rating and review. Yeah, which is impressible. 45 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, it looks I think it says Johnyus part time Johnnius. Anyways, 46 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 3: close enough. We appreciate the gesture there. Wrote it all 47 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 3: in frosting wine. 48 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,239 Speaker 1: No, Paul Hollywood could never. 49 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 3: All right, Mango, be honest. Have you ever spilled something 50 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:48,639 Speaker 3: on a book or an important document? 51 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 4: Not? 52 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:50,240 Speaker 1: Really? 53 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 2: Okay, well, I was hoping for you to say yes 54 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 2: at some. 55 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 3: Point, But you've never spilled coffee or like wine on 56 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 3: a book or something like that. 57 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:01,119 Speaker 1: No, I am one, I'm not really that clumsy. But two, 58 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: I'm actually super paranoid about that type of thing. So 59 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: like when I have a glass, I tend to keep 60 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: my books and my liquid separate. My kids and my 61 00:03:09,960 --> 00:03:11,920 Speaker 1: wife do spill a lot of things, so I am 62 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: cleaning up a lot of stuff. 63 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:16,360 Speaker 3: Okay, Okay, Well, our next great idea will definitely help 64 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 3: you out in those situations as well. As librarians are 65 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 3: conservators who have had to rescue water logged materials, And 66 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 3: is there a. 67 00:03:23,240 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 2: Lot of that? More than you'd imagine. 68 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 3: Actually, I think of burst pipes or flooding or damage 69 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 3: caused by sprinklers, if there's a fire in the building, 70 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 3: and wet paper is really hard to dry out. You 71 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 3: can blot it, you can freeze dried, you can put 72 00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 3: it in front of fans. But these techniques are time 73 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 3: consuming and laborious, and so if you're not careful, you 74 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 3: can wind up with mildew or pages that end up rippling. 75 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: And so someone came up with a better way to 76 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: dry these books. 77 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,000 Speaker 3: Actually, someone came up with the best way to drive books. 78 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 2: His name is Nicky Jaeger, and he is a. 79 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 3: Rare books librarian, a conservator, and an artist who's had 80 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:00,280 Speaker 3: a long and colorful career in the world of papers. 81 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 3: So back in two thousand and two, a friend put 82 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 3: him in touch with a woman named Kate Hayes, who 83 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 3: was an information specialist with the USDA's National Agricultural Library. 84 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 3: She'd been thinking about soggy paper ever since she'd heard 85 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 3: that millions of Pentagon documents got soaked on nine to 86 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 3: eleven when all the sprinkler systems turned on, and she 87 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 3: remember the substance that was used in agriculture to help 88 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 3: seeds germinate in dry soil. It's a cornstarch based polymer 89 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:28,480 Speaker 3: called and I'm not making this up, super Slurper and 90 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 3: this stuff holds five hundred times its weight and water, 91 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 3: so it could dry anything out right. She just needed 92 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 3: someone with a conservation expertise to figure out how it 93 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 3: could be applied to paper. So we talked to Nicky 94 00:04:40,320 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 3: on the phone and he told us that he was 95 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 3: intrigued by the idea. So we asked Kate Hayes to 96 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 3: mail him some super slurper, which looked a lot like sawdust, 97 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 3: and when it arrived, she gave him a call and 98 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 3: he tested it out while they were talking. 99 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 4: So I walk over to the sink and put a 100 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 4: book under the faucet soak about fifty sixty seventy pages. 101 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,479 Speaker 4: I take a handful of this flake and I throw 102 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 4: it into the middle of the wettest part of the book. 103 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 4: Close the book, put it in the screw press, and 104 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 4: talk for another minute. Pull it out, and twenty pages 105 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 4: on either side of it or bone dry. I mean, 106 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 4: they're not like humid, they're dry. And that's what five 107 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 4: hundred times is waiting water will do. I'm like, this 108 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 4: stuff is amazing. We got to do something. 109 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 3: Kate agreed to help NICKI get a federal research agreement 110 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:32,160 Speaker 3: to turn super Slurper into a viable paper conservation product. 111 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 2: But right away there were challenges. 112 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 3: For one thing, the super Slurper turned into a goo 113 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 3: in the crevices of wet books, and the sawdust like 114 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 3: flakes made dense in the paper as it dried. So 115 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:44,919 Speaker 3: he solved that first problem by just sandwiching a layer 116 00:05:44,960 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 3: of the polymer between sheets of lab grade filtration paper, 117 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 3: and after destroying a coffee grinder trying to turn the 118 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:54,479 Speaker 3: flakes into dust, he tracked down a manufacturer that sold 119 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:55,560 Speaker 3: a powdered. 120 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 2: Version of the super Slurper. 121 00:05:57,080 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 3: But then the question was how do you keep this 122 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 3: fine powder contained in its envelope of filter paper? 123 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:07,560 Speaker 4: And somebody eventually said something about diapers, and I went, oh, yeah. 124 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 3: Nikki checked out some diaper making equipment, but he realized 125 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 3: that diapers are engineered to hold liquid in without ever 126 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 3: letting it out. They use an adhesive that lets the 127 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 3: absorbent filling blow up when it gets wet, and then 128 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 3: it stays puffy. Super Slurper couldn't do that. It had 129 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 3: to dry flat so it wouldn't damage book spines. Eventually, 130 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 3: after a ton of trial and error, he figured out 131 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 3: how to assemble sheets of super Slurper designed for rescuing 132 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 3: wet books. He used the jury rigged silk screen to 133 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 3: distribute the powder on the envelopes of filter paper coated 134 00:06:36,560 --> 00:06:39,599 Speaker 3: with an industrial adhesive that allowed the stuff to swell 135 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 3: up just enough to hold water before going flat as 136 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,160 Speaker 3: it dried. Plus, he left a precise border at the 137 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,599 Speaker 3: edge of the paper so the slurper wouldn't ooze out, 138 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 3: sort of like an over stuffed PBNJ. 139 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,719 Speaker 1: I mean this all sounds so time consuming. 140 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is taking years. He's bouncing around rented 141 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 3: commercial workspaces and USDA research labs, getting by with small grants. 142 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 3: It was slow going, but he was homing in on 143 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,719 Speaker 3: the details that would make his product, which he decided 144 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 3: to call zorbiks, work just right now. The problem now 145 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,440 Speaker 3: was finding a way to manufacture this stuff instead of 146 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 3: pasting it together by hand. But the industrial experts he 147 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 3: spoke with didn't understand the science of zorbis or books 148 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 3: the way Nikki did. 149 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 4: Every engineer I spoke to for ten years kept trying 150 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 4: to re engineer it to their standards. No one was 151 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 4: able to comprehend all of my very specific needs and challenges, 152 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:42,800 Speaker 4: and in answering their questions, I was learning myself what 153 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 4: the form had to be and why it had to 154 00:07:45,840 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 4: be the way it was. So during that period I 155 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,680 Speaker 4: also figured out that if I put the sheets of 156 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 4: zorbis about every twenty or thirty pages, then I'm not 157 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 4: swelling the spine of the book. I'm not increasing the 158 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 4: books interior space such that it ruins the spine. 159 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:06,880 Speaker 2: Now, the other problem was money. 160 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 3: So by two thousand and nine he'd built up a 161 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 3: small customer base of librarians and conservation experts. People in 162 00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 3: the book business knew the value of zorbix, but finance 163 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:16,680 Speaker 3: guys couldn't quite get it. 164 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 4: I'd managed to get a couple of people investing in this. 165 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 4: I was able to manufacture small batches of it by hand, 166 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 4: and whenever any library saw this stuff, they loved it. 167 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 4: They were like, this stuff is great, But I had 168 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:34,559 Speaker 4: a hard time describing how it was useful. Like I 169 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,400 Speaker 4: tried to go in front of Angel investors, but Northern 170 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 4: California is a high tech industry and this is essentially 171 00:08:41,920 --> 00:08:45,079 Speaker 4: below tech, and nobody understood the importance. So I'd done 172 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 4: research on how many books get wet in a year. 173 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 4: There's over two million books a year in libraries that 174 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:55,280 Speaker 4: get wet from non catastrophic floods, water breaks, leaking roof, 175 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 4: spilling coffee, whatever. Went to these investors and they were like, well, 176 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:02,000 Speaker 4: that's two million books, that's not that big a deal. 177 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 3: He ended up having to take a warehouse job to 178 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 3: support himself while he continued looking for ways to mass 179 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 3: produce sorbis, all while keeping up with the orders he 180 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 3: was getting from librarians. By twenty fifteen, he had hit 181 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 3: a wall. 182 00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:17,440 Speaker 4: I called all of my investor and I said, I'm done. 183 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 4: It's you know, it's from two thousand and two to 184 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 4: twenty fifteen. I just I can't do this anymore. And 185 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 4: they went, yeah, well, you prove feasibility, you got a mark, 186 00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 4: you built the machine, you wrote the patent, you got 187 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 4: a market. It just didn't succeed financially, but just suceeded 188 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 4: in every other way. So I said, all right, I'm 189 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:37,720 Speaker 4: going to celebrate my failure and I went on a 190 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 4: motorcycle trip around the country. 191 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 3: On his way through ann Arbor, he stopped to say 192 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 3: hi to one of his longtime customers, Shannon Zachary, the 193 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 3: head of conservation and book repair at the University of Michigan, 194 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 3: and he told her about his decision. 195 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,079 Speaker 4: She goes, what, He goes, see the stack of book series? Yeah, 196 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 4: she said, we had a flood in our rare book vault. 197 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,440 Speaker 4: It was a water leak and we had all of 198 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:01,760 Speaker 4: this mostly nineteenth and twenty a century kind of avant 199 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 4: garde types of materials. They couldn't freeze dry and they 200 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 4: had to be flat. She goes, that stack is the 201 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,079 Speaker 4: last stack of these, you know, seven hundred books or 202 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 4: whatever it was. And we used zorbis and was great. 203 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 4: I said I can't keep going. I need ten grand 204 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 4: just to buy a paper. She goes, oh, well, you 205 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 4: can't go out of business. 206 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,160 Speaker 3: Shannon rallied the conservation community to place ten thousand dollars 207 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 3: worth of orders back home in California. Nicky got to 208 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,440 Speaker 3: work fulfilling them by hand. He plugged away in a 209 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,679 Speaker 3: Bay Area industrial building with no heat, sharing the space 210 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 3: with a bunch of burning Man fans who were there 211 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 3: building art carts for the plyout, and he set up 212 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 3: his fourteen foot modified screen printing system, his racks, his 213 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,480 Speaker 3: stock of filter paper, and powdered super slurper. He covered 214 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 3: it all with plastic sheeting because the roof was leaking. 215 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 3: No but he was still no closer to getting Zorbis 216 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 3: into a proper manufacturing system. After a while, he looked 217 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,640 Speaker 3: around and was like, why am I still doing this? 218 00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:58,960 Speaker 3: You can imagine the frustration. 219 00:10:59,320 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 220 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 4: Do you know what the difference between being stubborn and 221 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:06,640 Speaker 4: perseverant is? Well, stubborn is what they say about you 222 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 4: when you're doing something and it doesn't look like it's 223 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 4: going anywhere. When they write about it after you succeeded, 224 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 4: they say you were perseverant, and I just said I'm stubborn. 225 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 4: Time to quit? 226 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 1: Well, I guess that is part of science, right. I mean, 227 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: sometimes the world just doesn't make space for great ideas. 228 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's pretty much how Nickki felt. So he called 229 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:29,720 Speaker 3: up an old friend from the book world who agreed 230 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 3: to buy the business, but that guy got busy with 231 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,640 Speaker 3: other projects. So Zorbix, this incredibly complicated, beautifully simple way 232 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 3: to save what books, was put on the back burner. 233 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 3: That means it's been a long time since any Zorbis 234 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 3: was produced, but since it's reusable, it is actually still 235 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 3: out there. So we heard from one conservator who's hung 236 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 3: onto her sheets for years because she says it's just 237 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 3: so good at what it does. It's pretty amazing. So 238 00:11:53,720 --> 00:11:56,719 Speaker 3: where does this all stand now? Well, there may end 239 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 3: up being a happy ending to this story. So right 240 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 3: before we recorded episode, actually got an email from Nikki 241 00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 3: who said that talking to us reignited his passion for 242 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,360 Speaker 3: the project. He's decided to start writing the story of 243 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 3: Zorbis for his blog and put some demos on YouTube 244 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 3: so more people can see how it works. He's thinking 245 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 3: maybe it can turn into sort of an open source effort. 246 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 3: And here's some even more good news. He was kind 247 00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:21,800 Speaker 3: enough to mail us some sheets of zorbix from his 248 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,679 Speaker 3: personal stash and we're giving them away today on Instagram. 249 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 3: So people are going to go start spelling stuff in 250 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,400 Speaker 3: order to be able to use it day right, So 251 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,960 Speaker 3: go follow us at Part Time Genius and find out 252 00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 3: how you can win some zorbis. 253 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,280 Speaker 1: That is pretty cool. Hey, listeners, do not go anywhere. 254 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: We've got to pause for a quick break. But there 255 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: is so much weird science waiting on the other side. 256 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Part Time Genius, where we're talking about 257 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:03,959 Speaker 1: the twenty five greatest science ideas of the last twenty 258 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:08,559 Speaker 1: five years. If you've ever gone hiking or camping in 259 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: the US or even if you've just tried to enjoy 260 00:13:11,040 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 1: a nightcap on your Porsche, chances are you've had an 261 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 1: annoying encounter with a mosquito. But that's usually all it is, 262 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: an annoyance. Now, in other parts of the world, mosquitoes 263 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:23,199 Speaker 1: are a serious health risk. In fact, the CDC calls 264 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,400 Speaker 1: them the world's deadliest animal. About a million people die 265 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:30,319 Speaker 1: for mosquito born illnesses each year. For example, despite all 266 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: the progress we've made with malaria, the WHO reports that 267 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: there were two hundred and sixty three million cases and 268 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 1: five hundred and ninety seven thousand deaths in twenty twenty three. 269 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,720 Speaker 1: Then there are diseases like Dengey, which are not often 270 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 1: lethal but can make you really really ill. Actually, when 271 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 1: I was recording my other podcast, Cal and Drive, my 272 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: aunt and uncle in India caught it and it truly 273 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: sounded miserable. But the worst part is mosquito borne illness 274 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 1: is on the rise worldwide, and here in the US 275 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,839 Speaker 1: we're actually starting to see more cases of West Nile 276 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:06,520 Speaker 1: virus zeka and denke. So why is this problem getting worse? 277 00:14:06,679 --> 00:14:08,960 Speaker 1: Climate change is a big part of it, right, I mean, 278 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,600 Speaker 1: as temperatures rise and places get more humid, it's a 279 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:16,240 Speaker 1: literal breeding ground for mosquitoes. Also the lack of adequate 280 00:14:16,440 --> 00:14:19,040 Speaker 1: healthcare infrastructure in many parts of the world as a factor. 281 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: But the other problem is money. Like in twenty twenty three, 282 00:14:22,680 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: the WHO and it's partners set a target of eight 283 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: point three billion to battle malaria around the globe, but 284 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: total investment only reached about four billions, so partners on 285 00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: the ground couldn't buy enough essential gear like things that 286 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: are pretty simple like mosquito nets, also medicines and insecticides, 287 00:14:38,960 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: which is why the next breakthrough is both hilarious and exciting. 288 00:14:43,240 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 1: So in twenty nineteen, a multinational team of researchers from Malaysia, Thailand, Japan, 289 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 1: and Indonesia discovered that exposing mosquitoes to music can disorient 290 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: them enough to attack less and breathe less too. 291 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,280 Speaker 3: So you just crank up the tunes and the mosquitoes 292 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 3: kind of freak out and people are less likely to 293 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 3: get bitten or how does it work? 294 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 1: Yes, so, I mean the study puts it in much 295 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 1: more official scientific terms, but yeah, that's pretty much it. 296 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 3: So is there is there a type of music that's 297 00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:10,480 Speaker 3: more effective than another? 298 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:14,840 Speaker 1: In fact, will there was a particular song that they used. 299 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: This study used the twenty ten dubstuff Smash Scary Monsters 300 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,359 Speaker 1: and nice sprites by scrilling cryllics. 301 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 2: Right, that's a scrillics hit. 302 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: Here is a little reminder of what it sounds like, 303 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:47,400 Speaker 1: which I'm sure takes you back to your MySpace days, right. 304 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: But for mosquitos, there's no nostalgia, just confusion. So here's 305 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,160 Speaker 1: how the experiment worked. The researchers restrained a hamster in 306 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 1: a mesh cage, then unleashed ten hungry mosquitoes, and they 307 00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: used the stopwat to track how long it took the 308 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:04,240 Speaker 1: bugs to start biting and how many times they bit 309 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: the hamster. So, when Scrillis wasn't playing, some of the 310 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: mosquitos started biting just after twenty one seconds in the cage, 311 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,240 Speaker 1: and individual mosquitos bit the hamster as many as eleven 312 00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: times and ten minutes. But when the music was playing, 313 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: they didn't start biting until at least sixty nine seconds 314 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: had passed, and the highest number of bites from a 315 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: single mosquito was seven. They also found that mosquitos exposed 316 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: to the song were slower to initiate mating. 317 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 2: Wow, so what do we think is the science behind 318 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 2: all of this. 319 00:16:32,720 --> 00:16:36,640 Speaker 1: Research suggests that noise causes stress in insects, like enough 320 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: to change their normal behavior. The other thing that might 321 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,920 Speaker 1: be causing delayed biting is the vibration from the sound. Now, 322 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: in the scrillics study, the scientists were careful to set 323 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: up their equipment so the speaker wasn't touching the cage. 324 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 1: But all sound is vibration, right, And it turns out 325 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: that the mosquitoes have to make a whole series of 326 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: super precise calculations before they suck your blood. First, they 327 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: need to locate you, then they robe for a suitable 328 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: blood vessel. Then they insert their style it which is 329 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: actually what it's called, and grip your skin while they feed. 330 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,119 Speaker 1: And it seems like consistent vibration. So the kind you 331 00:17:11,160 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: might experience in the twenty ten Dubsteps Smash scary monsters 332 00:17:14,840 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: and nice sprites can really throw these calculations off. There 333 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:22,040 Speaker 1: was another study in twenty eighteen where some researchers played 334 00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: acdc's back in black to a group of beetles and 335 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: it reduced their feeding as well. 336 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,120 Speaker 3: And when you say group of beetles, I assume you're 337 00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 3: talking about insects. 338 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think ACDC would stop Ringo and Paul 339 00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 1: from eating their dinners, But at any rate, it's amazing 340 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: to think that blasting music could someday be part of 341 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: an affordable and effective global mosquito control strategy. 342 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 3: All right, Well, at the risk of branding myself as 343 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 3: the fungus guy, and I'm always nervous about this, I'm 344 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:53,119 Speaker 3: championing another fungal breakthrough for our accountant. H huh, and 345 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 3: this one has to do with their eating habits. So 346 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:57,280 Speaker 3: for a long time now, we've known that fungi are 347 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 3: basically the garbage disposals of the natural world, eli practically 348 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 3: anything from the wood of a violin to asbestos to 349 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:07,879 Speaker 3: even jet fuel, which is super weird. In fact, there 350 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 3: are now at least four different species of marine fungus 351 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 3: that can even break down carbon based polyethylene, the most 352 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 3: pervasive form of plastic waste in the Earth's oceans. 353 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 1: That's pretty awesome. 354 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 2: But as helpful as all. 355 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 3: Of this is from a human perspective, there is one 356 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 3: dish on the fungal menu whose consumption stands to benefit 357 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,800 Speaker 3: us the most, and that's actually radiation. 358 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,120 Speaker 1: I feel like I've heard about this, right, it's some 359 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,159 Speaker 1: kind of black fungus at Chernobyl. 360 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:32,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. 361 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,680 Speaker 3: And years after the nineteen eighty six meltdown, scientists discovered 362 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 3: patches of black fungus growing on the walls of the 363 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,639 Speaker 3: Number four reactor. Surprisingly, the fungi seemed to be growing 364 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,119 Speaker 3: toward the various sources of radiation, and as later studies showed, 365 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,680 Speaker 3: it actually thrived the most where the radiation was highest. Now, 366 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 3: for a long time, nobody knew how the fungus had 367 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 3: managed to survive much less flourish, But in two thousand 368 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 3: and seven, two researchers at New York's Albert Einstein College 369 00:18:57,240 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 3: of Medicine shed some light on the subject. The study 370 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,760 Speaker 3: revealed that the fungus had not only adapted to what 371 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,560 Speaker 3: would normally be seen as a lethal level of radiation, 372 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:08,680 Speaker 3: it also developed a way to feed on the radiation 373 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 3: as a way to fuel its own growth, kind of 374 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,399 Speaker 3: like the fungal equivalent of photosynthesis. The fungus absorbed the 375 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 3: radiation and then processed it harmlessly to produce usable energy, 376 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:20,240 Speaker 3: just like a plant does with sunlight. 377 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: That's pretty amazing, So so what's their trick? 378 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:24,879 Speaker 3: Well, the secret turned out to be the fung guy's 379 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:28,640 Speaker 3: melanin content, the pigment responsible for its dark coloring. These 380 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 3: researchers that I mentioned, Ekaterina Dottakova and Arturo Castovol, discovered 381 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 3: that exposure to radiation had changed the shape of the 382 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 3: black fung guiy's melanin molecule, making it much more effective 383 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 3: at processing radiation than fungal strains that don't contain melanin. 384 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: It's amazing. We've talked about melanin twice on this yeah, 385 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 1: this series. So does that adaptation exist in other strains 386 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: of black fungi or is it just the one that's 387 00:19:53,640 --> 00:19:55,920 Speaker 1: found at Chernobyl. Now we actually know of a few 388 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 1: different strains that can do this. Now they're called radiotrophic fungi, 389 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:01,639 Speaker 1: and the hope is that we can use them to 390 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:05,640 Speaker 1: help contain and possibly reduce radiation levels and other contaminated 391 00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 1: sites around the world. Now, to be clear, the fungi's 392 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,920 Speaker 1: abilities could have useful applications in far less extreme places 393 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,040 Speaker 1: than nuclear disaster sites. For example, there are a lot 394 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 1: of medical and manufacturing devices that safely use smaller levels 395 00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,119 Speaker 1: of radiation. These can be treated with radiotrophic fungus to 396 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,639 Speaker 1: further protect workers from ambient radiation, or maybe help to 397 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:28,840 Speaker 1: power them, since the fungus produces energy. There's also a 398 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 1: chance that we could someday harness the genes possible for 399 00:20:31,359 --> 00:20:34,439 Speaker 1: the fungi's resilience to radiation, and then use them to 400 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: create other materials with the same ability. In the meantime, though, 401 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:41,080 Speaker 1: NASA scientists have already fast tracked another important use for 402 00:20:41,119 --> 00:20:46,160 Speaker 1: the black fungus protecting astronauts from cosmic radiation. That's pretty cool. 403 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,920 Speaker 1: I sometimes forget. In addition to the lack of oxygen, 404 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,760 Speaker 1: spaces radioactive. So you know, whether you're walking out in 405 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 1: a spacesuit or chilling inside the rocket, you're being hit 406 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:57,320 Speaker 1: with some level of radiation. 407 00:20:57,440 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it's not exactly a hospitable environment for humans 408 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 3: up there. And the same strain found that Chernobyl was 409 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:05,800 Speaker 3: sent to the International Space Station back in twenty twenty, 410 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 3: and the experiment conducted with it showed that the fungus 411 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,359 Speaker 3: was able to block some of the incoming radiation. The 412 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 3: finding could have major implications for future missions, including long 413 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 3: term voyages in a deep space where radiation levels could 414 00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:20,440 Speaker 3: be much higher. If further studies pan out, astronauts could 415 00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 3: soon be wearing suits and living in habitats shielded with 416 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 3: the layer of this protective fungus. 417 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: That's really an incredible journey from like the soil to 418 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: chernobyl to outer space. Like it's a pretty huge evolution. Okay, listeners, 419 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: you've got to pay for the show with some ads, 420 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: but we'll be right back after this quick break. Welcome 421 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: back to Part Time Genius, where we're talking the twenty 422 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: five greatest science ideas of the last twenty five years, 423 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 1: and we're up to number what, Well, this is it 424 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,240 Speaker 1: our last story of the countdown, Dylan, can we get 425 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 1: a drum roll for lease? 426 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 2: All right, let's do it, mango. 427 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,800 Speaker 3: What is the number one best science idea of the 428 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 3: past twenty five years? 429 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,119 Speaker 1: So this comes from a two thousand and six study 430 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 1: published in the British Medical Journal concerning the treatment of 431 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:29,119 Speaker 1: obstructive sleep apnea or OSA. And this is a huge deal. 432 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: According to the National Council on Aging, nearly a billion 433 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:35,959 Speaker 1: adults worldwide are thought to have at least a mild 434 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:37,120 Speaker 1: case of OSA. 435 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I know most of us have heard of 436 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,679 Speaker 3: sleep apnea, but let's take a minute just remind me 437 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 3: what it does exactly. 438 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,440 Speaker 1: The condition occurs when the upper airway in the throat 439 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: collapses during sleep, and this blocks the sleeper's airflow and 440 00:22:49,359 --> 00:22:53,080 Speaker 1: causes their breathing to repeatedly stop and start. So you know, 441 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: it results in like snoring, gasping, sometimes choking. Not to 442 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,920 Speaker 1: mention sleep deprivation and not getting enough sleep really has 443 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: serious health consequences. Lack of sleep is linked to diabetes, 444 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: heart disease, plus mental health problems like brain fog, irritability, anxiety, 445 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:14,719 Speaker 1: and even depression. But luckily, a team of Swiss researchers 446 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: came up with a treatment for sleep apnea that is 447 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 1: totally safe and proven to work. It involves a medical 448 00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:24,720 Speaker 1: device that produces a very distinctive sound. So I just 449 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:26,280 Speaker 1: want to play a clip of it for you in 450 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,280 Speaker 1: your headphones and see if you can place it. 451 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 2: Wait, is that a digital? 452 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:44,160 Speaker 1: Do? I mean? What else could it be? That one 453 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: of a kind drone sound right there is pretty incredible? 454 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 3: All right, So that's cool and all, But how does 455 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,119 Speaker 3: listening to it help with sleep apnea? 456 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,800 Speaker 1: Listening to it probably won't help. The sound has been 457 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: found to promote relaxation and reduce stress in sight people. 458 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 1: But the real medical marvel comes from playing the instrument. Now, 459 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,120 Speaker 1: according to this two thousand and six study, the airway 460 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,240 Speaker 1: collapses associated with sleep apnea can be caused by a 461 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 1: variety of factors, ranging from obesity, to alcohol consumption to 462 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,720 Speaker 1: simply having a large tongue. But whatever the case, the 463 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:20,520 Speaker 1: key to treating them is to find a way to 464 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 1: keep that airway open at all times. Now, the traditional 465 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: way to do that is with a seapat machine. This 466 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 1: treatment uses a machine to deliver a steady stream of 467 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,320 Speaker 1: air pressure through a mask so that the soft tissues 468 00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: and the wearer's throat won't close in and block the airway. 469 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,480 Speaker 3: I guess that's kind of like one of those inflatable 470 00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 3: tube guys at the car dealerships right picture those. 471 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:44,520 Speaker 1: I guess so. But the problem is seapap machines are expensive, 472 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: they're bulky, they're cumbersome, and nearly half of all people 473 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: prescribe these machines by their doctors eventually quit using them. Plus, 474 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,200 Speaker 1: the machines make a worrying white and ie sound, which 475 00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: some people will find soothing but would drive me nuts. 476 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 2: Yes, it's not nearly as soothing as a digital do Well. 477 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,399 Speaker 1: Again, listening to a digitido will not help you. But 478 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,359 Speaker 1: these Swiss researchers found that playing the digitaldoo or the 479 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: ditch as those of us in the no Call, it 480 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 1: is actually a great way to strenthen the muscles of 481 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:16,959 Speaker 1: the upper airway. And the key to that is the 482 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,960 Speaker 1: circular breathing technique used by wind instrumentalists. This allows them 483 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 1: to create a continuous, uninterrupted tone by inhaling through the 484 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 1: nose while maintaining airflow through the instrument. Now, this is 485 00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,520 Speaker 1: a tricky technique to master because you kind of have 486 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 1: to alternate back and forth between stored air in your 487 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 1: cheeks and air brought into the lungs through the nose. Amazingly, 488 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,520 Speaker 1: it's actually how the wrapper black thought from the roots 489 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: can wrap like ten minutes straight without sounding like he's 490 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: taking a big gas for air, and he has like 491 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 1: a steady flow. But once you've mastered the method through 492 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,240 Speaker 1: daily practice, the muscles in your tongue and throat will 493 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 1: be much stronger and your upper airway will be much 494 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: less likely to collapse. 495 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,879 Speaker 3: It's super interesting, but I'm curious that, like, how do 496 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 3: the researchers figure this out? Like what made them think 497 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,879 Speaker 3: that digidoo might have an effect on sleep apnea. 498 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: So according to the study, they were tipped off by 499 00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 1: a dijidoo instructor who happened to suffer from sleep apne himself, 500 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,359 Speaker 1: and he reported that he and a few of his 501 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,880 Speaker 1: students snored less and weren't as tired during the daytime 502 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:19,000 Speaker 1: after practicing with the instrument for several months, and that 503 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:20,959 Speaker 1: convinced the team to take a closer look. So they 504 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:23,959 Speaker 1: recruited twenty five people, all of whom had a moderate 505 00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,480 Speaker 1: sleep apnea, gave them several weeks of lessons on how 506 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 1: to play, and then had them commit to practicing daily 507 00:26:30,359 --> 00:26:32,719 Speaker 1: for about four months. And so, how could they tell 508 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,760 Speaker 1: whether it was working? So they used several different measures 509 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: to gauge the results, but the primary outcome was something 510 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,560 Speaker 1: called the Epworth scale, which measures daytime sleepiness from zero 511 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,840 Speaker 1: to twenty four. Now, the average Epworth score at the 512 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: start of the trial was eleven point eight, so pretty 513 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: much in the middle between zero and twenty four. But 514 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,360 Speaker 1: after practicing dijidoo for about twenty five minutes a day, 515 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: six days a week for several months, the test subject's 516 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:01,480 Speaker 1: average score dropped to seven point point four, so almost 517 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: a four and a half point difference. In addition, the 518 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,200 Speaker 1: partners of the participants reported far less sleep disturbance from 519 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,440 Speaker 1: snoring during the same period, suggesting that the collapsibility of 520 00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 1: the upper airway really had been reduced by playing this digitidoo. 521 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 3: And I'm curious how did those improvements stack up against 522 00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 3: the SEAPAP machine. 523 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:24,040 Speaker 1: So overall, the effect of the Digirado was slightly smaller 524 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: than the typical results of SEAPAP therapy. But as the 525 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:30,159 Speaker 1: authors noted, one of the major hurdles with SEPAP is 526 00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 1: no one really likes using them right, and that leads 527 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 1: to poor compliance. But that wasn't the case with the 528 00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,960 Speaker 1: digital do Like the people who participated were super into 529 00:27:40,000 --> 00:27:42,919 Speaker 1: it and even practiced more often than the researchers had 530 00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 1: asked them to, so in the long run, the ditch 531 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: might be the better choice for some patients. Also, while 532 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: we're talking about the digiti do, did you know the 533 00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: name is an automotopia? 534 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 3: I did not, actually just I don't know what I 535 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 3: thought the origins were. I just assumed it was an 536 00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 3: Australian Aboriginal word. 537 00:27:58,160 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I actually thought the same thing, But it turned 538 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: the word doesn't exist in any of the local languages like, 539 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: they've got their own names for it. They call it 540 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,919 Speaker 1: the yadaki or the mago. So while the instrument itself 541 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: is thought to be one of the oldest on the planet, 542 00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:15,000 Speaker 1: the name dijidoo was likely coined by Europeans who settled 543 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,600 Speaker 1: around the turn of the twentieth century, and they called 544 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 1: it that to mimic the rhythmic sounds it produces. Anyway, 545 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: I was so curious if there was any sort of 546 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 1: anecdotal evidence to back this up, so I went on 547 00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: the sleep Apnea subreddit and sure enough, there are a 548 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: whole bunch of posts from people who report improved sleep 549 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: after learning how to play the digradoo. 550 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,080 Speaker 2: There's just one drawback, and what would that be? 551 00:28:37,680 --> 00:28:41,520 Speaker 1: The digardoo sound is loud, So it's true, while your 552 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:44,840 Speaker 1: sleep might be getting better, your relationship with your neighbors 553 00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:45,959 Speaker 1: might get worse. 554 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 3: Oh you know, Mega, We've been doing an Instagram contest 555 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 3: every day of this countdown, and I already mentioned that 556 00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 3: we're giving away sheets of Zorbix today, but since this 557 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 3: is the grand finale, we're also going to give away 558 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,360 Speaker 3: a digitaldoo. Sleep Apnea kit comes with everything you need 559 00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:03,760 Speaker 3: to become a well rested digital player. 560 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:05,680 Speaker 2: Buy our neighbors Samir Plugs. 561 00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 3: Go to our Instagram at part Time Genius to get 562 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:09,720 Speaker 3: all the contest details. 563 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been really fun doing these contests and maybe 564 00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:15,280 Speaker 1: we'll do more of them in the future. But that 565 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: brings us to the end of our great science ideas countdown. 566 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 1: We really hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. 567 00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 1: And in addition to Gabe, Mary and Dylan, a shout 568 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,480 Speaker 1: out to Lucas Riley, who also helped us research a 569 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,840 Speaker 1: ons of this. Calypso Rales is mailing out all the 570 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: gifts and helping us with social media. And we also 571 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: want to thank all the inventors and scientists we spoke 572 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: with for helping us make this happen. But from Will 573 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,520 Speaker 1: and myself, thank you to all those folks, and thank 574 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: you to you. We feel so lucky that we get 575 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:54,640 Speaker 1: to make this show and we're really thrilled here listening. 576 00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: Part Time Genius is the production of Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio. 577 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: This show is hosted by Will Pearson and me Mongas 578 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:17,240 Speaker 1: Chatikler and research by our goodpal Mary Philip Sandy. Today's 579 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:20,640 Speaker 1: episode was engineered and produced by the Wonderful Dylan Fagan, 580 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: with support from Tyler Klang. The show is executive produced 581 00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 1: for iHeart by Katrina Norvell and Ali Perry, with social 582 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:32,280 Speaker 1: media support from Sasha Gay, Trustee Dara Potts and Viney Shorey. 583 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:37,440 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from Kaleidoscope and iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 584 00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:53,120 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.