WEBVTT - Understanding Clayton Echard’s “Love Trapped” Case 0:00:00.750 --> 0:00:03.800 This is the Ben and Ashley I Almost Famous Podcast 0:00:03.840 --> 0:00:04.650 with iHeartRadio. 0:00:06.170 --> 0:00:09.250 Hey everyone, welcome back to the Almost Famous Podcast. It's Ashley, 0:00:09.369 --> 0:00:10.730 and today we're going to do a little bit of 0:00:10.770 --> 0:00:14.510 a deep dive on the Clayton Eckert fraternity fraud case 0:00:14.690 --> 0:00:20.330 involving Laura Owens. So she was just, she pled guilty 0:00:20.370 --> 0:00:23.340 in a criminal case, which is one of the reasons 0:00:23.460 --> 0:00:28.140 that this case has been brought up again. And simultaneously, 0:00:28.260 --> 0:00:32.800 Clayton has quite a hit podcast in telling the story. 0:00:33.740 --> 0:00:37.059 So we have a guest today. He has practiced criminal 0:00:37.100 --> 0:00:39.089 law for nearly 15 years, and he's served as a 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:43.650 legal expert on CNN and KTLA in LA. Please welcome 0:00:43.670 --> 0:00:46.950 to the podcast, Ryan Kearns, to help us understand this 0:00:47.010 --> 0:00:49.470 case a little bit better. Hey, Ryan. 0:00:50.030 --> 0:00:53.520 Hi, Ashley. Thanks for having me on. This is certainly 0:00:53.540 --> 0:00:58.100 an adventure of a case. For anybody that's been a 0:00:58.620 --> 0:01:01.520 lawyer and that's practiced in criminal or practiced in family law, 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:05.920 I mean, this touches every part of our legal system. 0:01:06.580 --> 0:01:09.810 And it is PTSD moments, I think, for a lot 0:01:09.850 --> 0:01:12.870 of lawyers that are listening to this podcast, seeing how 0:01:12.930 --> 0:01:16.270 far things can unravel and get out of hand. It's 0:01:16.290 --> 0:01:18.070 been an amazing, amazing story. 0:01:18.510 --> 0:01:21.390 So there's a lot of parts. There's a lot of details. 0:01:21.730 --> 0:01:24.750 Just to break down for simplicity's sake, can you tell 0:01:24.800 --> 0:01:28.660 our audience how there's been two trials now with Clayton 0:01:28.780 --> 0:01:31.080 and this woman? One has been civil, and that was 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:36.040 closed in 2024. And one, she just currently pled guilty during, 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:37.660 and that was a criminal case. 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:41.580 So there's actually been more than that. So there's the 0:01:41.740 --> 0:01:47.309 initial civil paternity case, which was how this whole thing started. 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:54.060 where Laura filed for paternity. That case ended in a 0:01:54.240 --> 0:02:00.230 verdict for Clayton and nearly $ 150, 000 in attorney's fees for him, 0:02:00.250 --> 0:02:03.930 which is pretty remarkable. There's also restraining order cases. So 0:02:03.950 --> 0:02:08.709 there were dueling restraining orders involving both Laura and Clayton, 0:02:09.030 --> 0:02:12.620 initially granted for both of them. And then after the paternity, 0:02:12.660 --> 0:02:14.980 the civil case in the paternity, it was referred actually 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:18.860 by the judge in that civil case to Maricopa County 0:02:18.900 --> 0:02:23.540 prosecutors for criminal evaluation. That led to the criminal charges 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:26.020 and the plea agreement that just came out last week. 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:28.940 So there's, it's, when I say it's kind of touched everything, 0:02:29.220 --> 0:02:32.710 it's touched family law, it's touched restraining orders, it's touched criminal, 0:02:33.430 --> 0:02:36.610 really everything you can get to in a dispute like this. 0:02:36.669 --> 0:02:37.650 So it's been pretty amazing. 0:02:38.550 --> 0:02:40.050 The way that I'm trying to simplify it in my 0:02:40.110 --> 0:02:41.450 head is that the 2024, the one that, like, the 0:02:41.490 --> 0:02:42.519 big one is that he. 0:02:46.290 --> 0:02:49.430 Sued her in civil court so that he could clear 0:02:49.490 --> 0:02:52.850 his name of any things that she was accusing him of, right? 0:02:53.650 --> 0:02:56.550 Right. You wanted to continue the, you actually filed motions 0:02:56.610 --> 0:03:02.310 to continue the paternity case even after there was, after 0:03:02.350 --> 0:03:04.650 she had said there was a non-viable, there was no 0:03:04.690 --> 0:03:06.910 longer a baby, it was not viable. And so there 0:03:06.950 --> 0:03:09.780 shouldn't be a paternity case even after she's the one 0:03:09.790 --> 0:03:12.610 who filed it. And he had filed motions to continue 0:03:12.650 --> 0:03:14.590 that because he wanted proof. He wanted there to be 0:03:14.610 --> 0:03:18.050 an actual court decision that said you were never pregnant. 0:03:18.070 --> 0:03:20.450 And if you were, it was not mine because the 0:03:20.490 --> 0:03:23.840 saga has, you know, he's never gotten a straight answer 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:27.260 or a court decision. That's that's confirmed that despite, you know, 0:03:27.340 --> 0:03:30.340 all this time trying to get, you know, some real answers. 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.500 So he's, he pushed really hard for, for all of that. 0:03:34.080 --> 0:03:37.360 Even after the case was technically moved because there wasn't 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:38.000 a baby anymore. 0:03:38.630 --> 0:03:42.470 She accused him of getting her pregnant, even though they 0:03:42.550 --> 0:03:47.150 never had penetrative, as I look around for making my son, 0:03:47.170 --> 0:03:52.360 son in the room, sex. Um, they was, she said 0:03:52.700 --> 0:03:58.540 that you were a little bit woozy that day. You 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:01.800 took a gummy. You don't know what actually happened. And 0:04:01.860 --> 0:04:06.860 then said that he got her pregnant, um, with twins and, 0:04:07.780 --> 0:04:12.220 on one night. And then because of that, because she 0:04:12.260 --> 0:04:15.720 said that she was pregnant with twins, she said something 0:04:15.780 --> 0:04:19.720 along the lines of, you can't have an in utero 0:04:20.100 --> 0:04:24.219 paternity test, even though that's initially what he wanted her 0:04:24.260 --> 0:04:24.600 to have. 0:04:24.620 --> 0:04:28.900 Yeah, it was pretty, just to try to simplify this 0:04:28.940 --> 0:04:31.479 as much as possible, because we could spend five days 0:04:31.620 --> 0:04:35.160 talking about, you know, the details of this case. It's 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:40.630 pretty remarkable how we got from this sort of one-night hookup. 0:04:40.690 --> 0:04:44.830 There's just oral sex. There's no penetrative sex to her 0:04:44.890 --> 0:04:47.250 sending messages, I want to date you. He breaks it off. 0:04:47.770 --> 0:04:50.609 Once it becomes clear he doesn't want to date her anymore, 0:04:50.790 --> 0:04:54.810 she then leverages this idea of a pregnancy, sends a 0:04:55.230 --> 0:05:01.810 positive pregnancy test, goes to this extreme, extreme lengths, doctoring images. 0:05:01.970 --> 0:05:05.230 We'll get into those details a little bit later, but 0:05:05.310 --> 0:05:09.320 really gets into some incredible lengths that she goes to 0:05:09.339 --> 0:05:12.240 to try to prove that she's pregnant and essentially just 0:05:12.260 --> 0:05:14.460 trying to say, please stay with me or give me 0:05:14.500 --> 0:05:18.240 a chance and I'll terminate the baby or if you don't, 0:05:18.260 --> 0:05:22.600 then I won't. It goes so far and this is 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:24.640 where I knew things had gone off the rails. She 0:05:24.690 --> 0:05:30.070 had sent a dating contract, a dating relationship contract to him. 0:05:30.250 --> 0:05:32.650 What in the world? 0:05:32.750 --> 0:05:37.469 Literally, it said if you date me for one week 0:05:37.970 --> 0:05:41.610 in good faith and give us a real chance going forward, 0:05:42.010 --> 0:05:45.610 then I'll agree to terminate the baby. It is a, 0:05:46.150 --> 0:05:48.350 I've never seen anything like it. It's clearly not something 0:05:48.370 --> 0:05:50.410 that's drafted by a lawyer, no lawyer, whatever, in their 0:05:50.450 --> 0:05:54.349 right mind, put something like that together. But I mean, 0:05:54.410 --> 0:05:57.650 just think about how, there's red flags and there's like 0:05:57.730 --> 0:06:01.650 the ship has sailed. I mean, that was, once I 0:06:01.710 --> 0:06:03.550 saw that, I knew that we were in for the 0:06:03.570 --> 0:06:03.970 long haul. 0:06:05.060 --> 0:06:08.220 Oh, my goodness gracious. So just to go back to 0:06:08.260 --> 0:06:13.360 my initial thought at the beginning, the 2026 one that 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:17.580 she just pleaded guilty towards, that is her basically pleading 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:20.310 guilty to the fact that she fabricated a whole bunch 0:06:20.350 --> 0:06:21.930 of the things that she presented in court. 0:06:22.630 --> 0:06:26.670 Yes. So the criminal laws where I that's that's what 0:06:26.690 --> 0:06:29.270 I've been practicing for most of my career. This is 0:06:29.390 --> 0:06:32.800 a it was a 14 count felony indictment that was 0:06:32.830 --> 0:06:37.930 filed against involving two separate victims, right? So this was 0:06:38.610 --> 0:06:41.830 a pattern of behavior that had happened before to a 0:06:42.130 --> 0:06:44.630 man named Greg Gillespie. And then now it has happened 0:06:44.650 --> 0:06:48.240 to Clayton afterwards. So they combined both of those two 0:06:48.300 --> 0:06:54.540 cases into one consolidated indictment. So 14 different felonies. She 0:06:54.560 --> 0:06:57.680 ends up pleading to four counts and she's looking at 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.080 a sentencing coming up next month. And it is, she 0:07:01.100 --> 0:07:03.000 could face up to 12 and a half years in prison. 0:07:04.380 --> 0:07:07.170 In both situations, she said that she was pregnant with 0:07:07.270 --> 0:07:11.930 twins and then got so angry because the guys thought 0:07:11.970 --> 0:07:14.470 that this night together was a casual hookup and she 0:07:14.550 --> 0:07:17.510 actually wanted to date them. Is there a reason that 0:07:17.550 --> 0:07:21.310 she would go with, I'm pregnant with twins? 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:24.200 Yeah, I think there's a couple of reasons. She's not 0:07:24.300 --> 0:07:28.440 unsophisticated in how she handles this. She clearly understands which 0:07:28.500 --> 0:07:31.120 levers to pull, which lawsuits to file, how to threaten 0:07:31.440 --> 0:07:39.810 with the most impact. Having twins, a couple things. One, 0:07:40.450 --> 0:07:43.710 there's a shock and awe factor of it's not just 0:07:43.850 --> 0:07:46.830 one person you're responsible for, it's two. You should really 0:07:46.890 --> 0:07:50.130 come around to my side of things. Give me a chance. 0:07:50.590 --> 0:07:54.190 Try this out because this is even more serious than 0:07:54.210 --> 0:07:57.150 you might think because there's two babies. Also, there's a 0:07:57.450 --> 0:08:04.710 real legitimate point that A lot of testing for paternity, 0:08:04.740 --> 0:08:08.580 a lot of programs won't test for twins because there's 0:08:08.620 --> 0:08:10.640 a chance, a very small chance, but there's two different 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:12.420 fathers for the twins. They want to make sure that 0:08:12.440 --> 0:08:16.360 it's reliable. And so it's this sort of excuse that 0:08:16.380 --> 0:08:18.740 she can have built in not to do a paternity 0:08:18.760 --> 0:08:20.580 test or at least to put it off for as 0:08:20.600 --> 0:08:24.620 long as possible. This is, Ashley, this is, paternity is 0:08:24.700 --> 0:08:27.240 one thing where there's a ticking clock on it. I mean, 0:08:27.280 --> 0:08:28.860 at some point there has to be either a baby 0:08:28.920 --> 0:08:32.199 or a test, right? So it's not- The most provable 0:08:32.250 --> 0:08:34.400 thing that there is. But she drags it on. She's 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:36.420 able to drag it on for months and months and months. 0:08:37.840 --> 0:08:44.070 What's the point? Do you know her goal here? Was 0:08:44.090 --> 0:08:47.850 it just to freak them out? Or was there any 0:08:47.929 --> 0:08:51.030 financial gain that she could have? I just don't understand 0:08:51.070 --> 0:08:54.030 the overall motive. I understand she was pissed and then 0:08:54.050 --> 0:08:58.230 she wanted to jerk around with them. But she knows 0:08:58.270 --> 0:09:00.620 she's going to get caught in the lie eventually. Doesn't 0:09:00.670 --> 0:09:05.319 she understand that there could be something very bad that 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:07.120 she faces legally after it all? 0:09:07.920 --> 0:09:11.220 Maybe, but there hadn't been any consequences before, right? I mean, 0:09:11.620 --> 0:09:14.540 she's been able to bully and pressure and lie and 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:18.069 kind of manipulate her way through the court system before. 0:09:18.179 --> 0:09:21.550 The case with Greg Gillespie beforehand, there were no criminal 0:09:21.570 --> 0:09:23.610 charges she was filed with at that time. In fact, 0:09:23.670 --> 0:09:27.890 she received a restraining order against him that that had 0:09:27.910 --> 0:09:31.240 been renewed multiple times after that. So she was, she 0:09:31.260 --> 0:09:34.080 was very credible in her lies. She doesn't, you know, 0:09:34.100 --> 0:09:37.179 she wasn't caught previously. So no, there were no consequences 0:09:37.260 --> 0:09:39.939 for her. So I think that's certainly where she thought 0:09:39.980 --> 0:09:42.640 that she could sort of rinse and repeat this behavior 0:09:43.320 --> 0:09:45.380 with more people. The problem she ran into in this 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.420 case is she picked way too high profile of an 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:52.520 individual and the internet, as they say, always wins. And 0:09:52.580 --> 0:09:56.170 so they, you know, the, the citizen sleuths the the 0:09:56.250 --> 0:09:59.530 bachelor nation i mean truly you remember in this case 0:09:59.550 --> 0:10:03.280 you know clayton didn't have the resources to hire an 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:06.500 attorney so when this first started he had just got 0:10:06.540 --> 0:10:09.000 his his real estate license he didn't people think there's 0:10:09.020 --> 0:10:10.780 a lot of money there coming from the bachelor but 0:10:11.179 --> 0:10:12.860 he didn't have enough money to hire a lawyer and 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:17.060 it really snowballed against him in court until he had 0:10:17.100 --> 0:10:20.640 a lawyer And if he didn't finally get representation, if 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:22.840 he didn't have all this sort of, I don't say 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:26.780 public support, but, you know, internet, you know, free internet 0:10:26.800 --> 0:10:29.990 lawyers that were out there doing the investigation, you know, 0:10:30.020 --> 0:10:32.689 may have turned out differently. So it really did take, 0:10:33.410 --> 0:10:37.410 it took all of this online pressure and ultimately resources 0:10:37.450 --> 0:10:39.690 from a GoFundMe account to help pay for a lawyer 0:10:39.770 --> 0:10:43.220 to put this all together and give us this remarkable, 0:10:43.660 --> 0:10:44.540 terrifying story. 0:10:45.110 --> 0:10:47.590 Well, now he's got Dancing on Cameo making him over 0:10:47.590 --> 0:10:50.550 100,000 a year, he says. And then now he's got 0:10:50.600 --> 0:10:54.120 this podcast, which is top 10. And now he'll probably 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:56.980 have a Netflix documentary. 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:00.360 Think about how, what is, you know, I haven't followed 0:11:00.380 --> 0:11:04.339 The Bachelor all too much, but I certainly know his story, right? 0:11:04.380 --> 0:11:07.670 I certainly know his story and what his reputation was 0:11:07.750 --> 0:11:10.130 from that season that he was The Bachelor and it 0:11:10.170 --> 0:11:12.809 was not great. And you want to talk about how 0:11:12.830 --> 0:11:16.079 you can do a 180 Now, he certainly had to 0:11:16.120 --> 0:11:19.640 go through the ringer, but if you want somebody to 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:22.860 become sympathetic, make them the victim of this kind of madness. 0:11:23.100 --> 0:11:31.900 It's such a personal, sensitive, really dirty scheme to pull 0:11:31.940 --> 0:11:34.080 somebody in, to try to pull somebody into a relationship, 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:39.980 to fake sonograms and and pregnancy tests, it's such a 0:11:40.040 --> 0:11:43.080 personal thing that it triggers anybody, anybody who's a parent 0:11:43.140 --> 0:11:45.260 or has thought about being a parent, the idea of 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:47.620 using that against somebody, no matter who they are is, 0:11:49.140 --> 0:11:52.240 I understand that it's triggering. One of the text messages 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:58.770 or comments from this girl, Laura, was something like, she's 0:11:58.790 --> 0:12:02.370 trying to prove that she's actually pregnant and that it's his, 0:12:02.429 --> 0:12:04.780 and she says, If it turns out that I'm not pregnant, 0:12:04.820 --> 0:12:07.500 I'll pay you $ 100, 000 or something like that, trying to 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:10.560 tell him that I'm really serious. And at the end 0:12:10.580 --> 0:12:13.280 of the day, she ends up paying him like $ 150, 000. 0:12:12.360 --> 0:12:15.000 So the only thing she said that was true was 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:17.120 that she's going to pay him all that money. Just 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:18.060 not the way she thought she was. 0:12:29.660 --> 0:12:32.750 I have a stupid question. But when somebody sues somebody 0:12:32.850 --> 0:12:35.209 for money that say they don't have in the bank, 0:12:35.630 --> 0:12:36.690 where does the money come from? 0:12:36.710 --> 0:12:40.130 If you're what we call judgment proof, right in the 0:12:40.170 --> 0:12:42.469 legal world, it doesn't really come from anywhere, right? There's 0:12:42.490 --> 0:12:45.850 not money to get. So you'll have a default judgment, 0:12:46.710 --> 0:12:49.910 or a civil judgment, sorry, in a civil case. And 0:12:49.929 --> 0:12:54.790 that's something that can be, you can get future wage garnishment, 0:12:54.850 --> 0:12:56.710 or she has property, you can get a levy on it, 0:12:56.730 --> 0:12:58.980 or if they have There's all kinds of ways to 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:00.640 try to collect, but if the money is not there, 0:13:00.700 --> 0:13:02.620 it's not there, right? You can just sort of collect 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:05.500 on it over time with whatever resources are there. If 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.420 she comes into money later, you know, she inherits money 0:13:08.460 --> 0:13:11.080 from her parents or something like that, you can execute 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.000 that judgment a little bit later. In the criminal case, 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:19.300 there's restitution. So there'll be criminal restitution and she'll be 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:23.229 through probation or parole. She'll have to, you know, We'll 0:13:23.270 --> 0:13:25.470 find out what she can pay per month, and then 0:13:25.490 --> 0:13:27.110 she'll be required to pay it. Sometimes if they don't 0:13:27.130 --> 0:13:29.849 have any money, it's $ 20 a month, $ 100 a month, 0:13:30.050 --> 0:13:32.189 whatever it might be. There's no way to really fully 0:13:32.230 --> 0:13:36.250 pay off the judgment entirely. But it's always there. And 0:13:36.309 --> 0:13:38.709 if she doesn't make any effort to pay, she can 0:13:38.870 --> 0:13:41.530 go back into custody. So there's two different ways to 0:13:41.570 --> 0:13:42.050 collect on it. 0:13:42.870 --> 0:13:46.470 Okay. What is she sentenced to right now after taking 0:13:46.490 --> 0:13:46.910 this plea? 0:13:47.309 --> 0:13:50.390 Great question. So her sentence is coming up. So we 0:13:50.410 --> 0:13:55.050 don't have an actual sentence yet. I think her sentencing 0:13:55.070 --> 0:13:59.730 date is October 23rd. And she's pled to four felonies. 0:14:00.230 --> 0:14:04.320 Three of them are already... There's an agreement where she's 0:14:04.340 --> 0:14:08.320 going to get probation on three of them. So there's 0:14:08.340 --> 0:14:10.660 really only one count of the sentencing that the judge 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:14.760 is going to be considering a custody sentence. And that 0:14:14.960 --> 0:14:19.470 has a... Um, that's the fraudulent schemes and artifices. It's the, 0:14:19.590 --> 0:14:22.210 it's count one. It's the first one against Clayton. And 0:14:22.230 --> 0:14:25.410 it's generally for the whole shebang, right? This is an 0:14:25.470 --> 0:14:29.630 entire fraudulent scheme. Let's consider everything that she's done over 0:14:29.670 --> 0:14:31.880 all of this time, which gives the judge a lot 0:14:31.900 --> 0:14:34.860 of discretion. And there is no agreement between the parties 0:14:35.260 --> 0:14:38.180 on what the sentence is going to be, meaning that 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.270 her attorneys can come and ask for probation. His attorneys 0:14:41.310 --> 0:14:43.190 can ask for 12 and a half years, up to 0:14:43.190 --> 0:14:45.250 12 and a half years, which is the maximum if 0:14:45.270 --> 0:14:47.670 there's a bunch of aggravating factors. And so when we 0:14:47.700 --> 0:14:51.340 get to the sentencing, the probation department will have a recommendation. 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:53.780 The defense will have a recommendation. The DA's office will 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:55.780 have a recommendation. And the judge is going to have 0:14:55.800 --> 0:14:57.920 to make a decision. I mean, the presumptive on that 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:00.280 charge is five years in state prison. That's the presumptive. 0:15:01.500 --> 0:15:03.370 If the judge thinks there's enough mitigation, it can go 0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:07.110 down to three years. If there's a lot of aggravating factors, 0:15:07.130 --> 0:15:08.229 it can go up to 12 and a half. And 0:15:08.250 --> 0:15:10.410 the judge can kind of go anywhere in between. Mm-hmm. 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:11.360 Very interesting. 0:15:11.380 --> 0:15:13.060 It'll be really interesting to see what happens because this 0:15:13.140 --> 0:15:18.660 is such a... Judges don't look favorably upon people who 0:15:18.900 --> 0:15:22.970 abuse the court system. And there's already been judges that 0:15:22.990 --> 0:15:27.910 have found that she lied during her testimony on her oath, 0:15:27.950 --> 0:15:32.190 that she's fraudulently doctored documents. They even tried to get 0:15:32.230 --> 0:15:34.720 one of the judges removed from the case because they 0:15:34.740 --> 0:15:37.100 said there was prejudice. When you start going after the 0:15:37.140 --> 0:15:40.420 judiciary and the credibility of the court system, judges really... 0:15:41.420 --> 0:15:43.880 They really take offense to that. So I can't imagine 0:15:43.900 --> 0:15:45.950 this will be a overly sympathetic courtroom. 0:15:47.430 --> 0:15:50.670 She also pleaded guilty to taking the identity of another. 0:15:50.830 --> 0:15:51.550 What is that from? 0:15:51.570 --> 0:15:58.390 That's from the doctored ultrasound or sonogram. 0:15:58.710 --> 0:15:59.970 That's what I figured. 0:15:59.990 --> 0:16:02.810 It's a pretty personal thing. 0:16:03.410 --> 0:16:05.610 Because it's somebody else's sonogram she stole. 0:16:06.050 --> 0:16:06.250 Yeah. 0:16:06.310 --> 0:16:08.910 It wasn't an AI creation. It was somebody else. 0:16:09.190 --> 0:16:09.510 Yeah. 0:16:09.730 --> 0:16:12.650 So there's a couple of different types of sonograms and 0:16:12.910 --> 0:16:14.810 documents that she doctored and used. But one of them 0:16:14.850 --> 0:16:16.890 was a, you know, one was taken from a YouTube 0:16:16.950 --> 0:16:20.110 video six or seven years ago, something like that. And 0:16:20.170 --> 0:16:23.010 she just changed, you know, she just put her name 0:16:23.050 --> 0:16:26.110 instead of the other person's name. And, you know, so 0:16:26.190 --> 0:16:28.450 she just took it as her own, right? And that's 0:16:28.490 --> 0:16:30.680 proof that it's hers. And most of what she's done is, 0:16:30.750 --> 0:16:34.200 you know, just internet research. You're not diving, right? And 0:16:34.220 --> 0:16:36.360 just trying to find ways to pretend to prove that 0:16:36.940 --> 0:16:41.220 this is there. But she has been chips all in 0:16:41.500 --> 0:16:46.900 from the beginning. And it took a criminal conviction and 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:50.920 a restraining order to get her to stop. It's pretty wild. 0:16:51.380 --> 0:16:55.160 Do you know it's another penalty or another ding that 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:57.300 she's going to have on her? Honestly, I don't know 0:16:57.320 --> 0:17:00.040 if she's ever going to find a husband or a 0:17:00.090 --> 0:17:02.780 family after all of this. And it seems like, so 0:17:02.820 --> 0:17:06.660 that's something she is desperate for. And I don't think 0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:09.200 Eddie's going to, anybody will give her the time of day. 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:12.060 Our producer is texting me. You'd be surprised. 0:17:13.270 --> 0:17:15.890 Look, I have, I have clients that are, you know, 0:17:15.950 --> 0:17:18.369 in custody or in prison or whatever. And some of 0:17:18.410 --> 0:17:21.629 them get letters from, from fans and from people that 0:17:21.650 --> 0:17:25.970 have followed their stories and they offer romance in whatever 0:17:26.030 --> 0:17:29.130 ways that you, that you might think. And so, you know, 0:17:29.170 --> 0:17:33.000 she may, She even in custody, who knows people, there 0:17:33.020 --> 0:17:34.160 are all kinds of people out there. 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:39.440 Clayton did, uh, he did, he took a step where 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:45.290 he made sure throughout her entire craziness to document everything, 0:17:45.420 --> 0:17:48.990 every text, every email I get, I don't know if 0:17:49.010 --> 0:17:54.410 there was any voice calls. When would you suggest that 0:17:54.570 --> 0:17:58.470 somebody start documenting if they're ever in a situation like this. 0:17:59.970 --> 0:18:02.410 Right now? Yeah. Like at the very, very. 0:18:02.230 --> 0:18:05.949 Beginning, like the second the guy says, she goes, I'd 0:18:05.970 --> 0:18:09.929 like you to sign this paper that tells you that 0:18:09.990 --> 0:18:11.450 I just want one week of a chance. 0:18:12.210 --> 0:18:14.750 One week, one week trial relationship, but it has to 0:18:14.790 --> 0:18:18.650 be in good faith. You have to be a good 0:18:18.730 --> 0:18:23.100 faith attempt. I mean, that sounds like a reality show 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:23.710 in and of itself. 0:18:24.670 --> 0:18:25.790 Unbelievable. 0:18:25.810 --> 0:18:28.710 Or you have to keep the baby. It's pretty remarkable. 0:18:28.869 --> 0:18:31.470 But no, keep the receipts. That's the first thing that 0:18:31.530 --> 0:18:34.360 any lawyer would tell you, right? Keep the receipts. Don't 0:18:34.400 --> 0:18:36.820 delete messages. First time there's a red flag or anything 0:18:36.859 --> 0:18:40.439 like that, you start recording. You find out when they're calling, 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:44.900 how often they're calling. Screenshot. Clayton did the right thing, 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:46.790 and it's made all the difference in this case. Because 0:18:46.810 --> 0:18:48.730 when you read the emails, you read the text messages, 0:18:48.790 --> 0:18:51.450 the story comes into a full picture. 0:18:51.830 --> 0:18:52.630 Did the other guy. 0:18:54.090 --> 0:18:58.730 A lot less. A lot less. In his case, it 0:18:58.780 --> 0:19:02.860 got really aggressive and really serious, and there were rape 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:07.580 allegations and domestic violence allegations, and it really went pretty far. 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:12.460 But it wasn't until people were able to see this 0:19:12.500 --> 0:19:16.419 pattern of behavior that you can make a determination. When 0:19:16.440 --> 0:19:19.700 you're in court and a woman is in there saying, 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:24.180 I've been choked, or I am pregnant, here's my, here's 0:19:24.220 --> 0:19:28.520 the sonogram of my baby and I'm a victim here. Everybody, 0:19:28.540 --> 0:19:32.100 I think everybody's reasonable belief is to, is to trust 0:19:32.140 --> 0:19:34.420 that person because who would come in and lie about that? 0:19:35.060 --> 0:19:38.280 And so it's, and she was in court under oath 0:19:38.580 --> 0:19:41.930 testifying to these things. And I don't blame any judge who, 0:19:42.130 --> 0:19:44.629 who hears that, who listens to her statement and, and 0:19:44.670 --> 0:19:46.630 sides with her. It's, you know, if you don't have 0:19:46.670 --> 0:19:48.650 all the other information, you're just going off of that. 0:19:49.310 --> 0:19:52.080 Of course, I think you'd defer to protecting someone in 0:19:52.100 --> 0:19:52.560 that position. 0:19:53.580 --> 0:19:55.280 When did the other guy come out of the woodwork 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.600 when he saw a public figure being faced with the 0:19:58.640 --> 0:19:59.419 same situation? 0:20:00.220 --> 0:20:06.480 The lawyer for Greg, when the story first broke about Clayton's, 0:20:07.100 --> 0:20:12.590 one of the... I think the employees in his firm 0:20:13.190 --> 0:20:15.369 showed him the story and said, look at this. Can 0:20:15.390 --> 0:20:17.930 you believe, doesn't this remind you of, of our other case? 0:20:18.410 --> 0:20:21.150 And he said, doesn't just remind me that's the same person. 0:20:22.300 --> 0:20:25.419 And he put those together right away when it came in, 0:20:25.480 --> 0:20:27.980 he reached out to Greg and they said, we, you know, we, 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:30.879 we know what the, what the, what the MO is 0:20:30.920 --> 0:20:33.100 here and what Clayton's going to be in for. I mean, they, 0:20:33.160 --> 0:20:35.389 they knew it was a battle and this is, It 0:20:35.410 --> 0:20:38.629 was pretty incredible. And Clayton couldn't afford to bring him 0:20:38.690 --> 0:20:40.760 in right away, right? It would have been pretty incredible 0:20:40.780 --> 0:20:42.600 if he could have just got him in to help 0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.640 with the case right from the beginning. But it wasn't 0:20:45.700 --> 0:20:49.200 until they had the GoFundMe that he could actually hire him. Wow. 0:20:49.880 --> 0:20:52.960 And then I also think that there was some communication 0:20:52.980 --> 0:20:55.960 between Greg's girlfriend and Clayton via DM. 0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:59.060 Yeah, that's the first person that reached out to Clayton. 0:20:59.680 --> 0:21:03.380 So Greg's girlfriend sent him a message. He thought, okay, 0:21:03.420 --> 0:21:07.040 now this is in some of his interviews, Clayton has said, 0:21:07.060 --> 0:21:09.419 you know, a light bulb went off, right? This was 0:21:09.480 --> 0:21:12.380 a moment that he thought, okay, now I'm pretty convinced 0:21:12.420 --> 0:21:14.390 that this is a pattern of behavior and not just, 0:21:14.970 --> 0:21:18.190 you know, I'm not alone in this battle. So he, 0:21:18.850 --> 0:21:21.010 that she reached out to him first, then there was 0:21:21.050 --> 0:21:23.300 some communication that he ended up talking to Greg and 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:25.399 they realized how similar these situations were. 0:21:37.410 --> 0:21:40.169 Because Laura took a plea deal, do you think that 0:21:40.190 --> 0:21:43.369 she'll have a lighter sentence? Is that an automatic thing usually? 0:21:44.030 --> 0:21:46.290 She'll have a lighter sentence than if she is convicted 0:21:46.310 --> 0:21:52.040 of 14 felonies after a trial and how horrendous her 0:21:52.060 --> 0:21:55.240 behavior is. And good luck finding an impartial jury in 0:21:55.280 --> 0:21:58.320 a case like that. I mean, it's pretty incredible. And look, 0:21:58.420 --> 0:22:00.700 what she did was she pled to the four felonies 0:22:01.380 --> 0:22:04.520 with probation on the table. And that's the most important 0:22:04.560 --> 0:22:07.230 thing for her lawyer, for her, she has a chance 0:22:07.260 --> 0:22:11.680 to argue for probation, meaning no prison time. A judge 0:22:11.700 --> 0:22:14.780 can give her probation and up to 365 days in 0:22:15.540 --> 0:22:18.740 county jail, but that's if the judge decides to give 0:22:18.760 --> 0:22:22.169 her probation. If she's convicted of all these other felonies, 0:22:22.190 --> 0:22:24.170 there's no way she's avoiding prison time. So at least 0:22:24.210 --> 0:22:26.350 now she has a fighting shot. She can come in, 0:22:26.390 --> 0:22:29.390