WEBVTT - Tech Stocks, Apple in China, and the Paris Olympics 0:00:02.440 --> 0:00:10.360 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:13.920 From Mahart where Innovation, money and power Collie in Silicon Valley, Nbon. 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:18.600 This is Bloomberg Technology with Caroline Hyde and ed Love Love. 0:00:33.280 --> 0:00:36.320 Live from London and San Francisco. This is Bloomberg Technology. 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:39.560 Coming up, we'll have full market coverage after a wild 0:00:39.640 --> 0:00:41.159 week for techtocs. 0:00:41.600 --> 0:00:45.120 Plus Apple losing ground in China. Will break down why. 0:00:46.000 --> 0:00:49.239 And as the Paris Olympics kick off, they raise for 0:00:49.240 --> 0:00:52.360 an onslaught of cyber attacks. But first it's check in 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.160 on these markets. An extraordinary week. In fact, we have 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:58.200 been down for three straight weeks on the Nasdaq one hundred. 0:00:58.240 --> 0:01:02.480 This week we lose about three It is the worst week, 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:05.679 well only since the previous week, since last week, ed, 0:01:05.880 --> 0:01:07.920 but we are training basically at the low since May, 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:10.759 and we've wiped off a ton of market capitalization. 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:13.959 Yeah, and I think a big part of the story 0:01:14.120 --> 0:01:17.480 is the Magnificent seven. I think you've already shown this 0:01:17.480 --> 0:01:20.160 Bloomberg terminal chart this week, Harrow, but it's kind of 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:22.720 the go to. You know, in the past two sessions 0:01:22.720 --> 0:01:26.760 Wednesday Thursday, almost a trillion dollars of market kap are raised, 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:31.240 and that has a broader impact on markets at an 0:01:31.240 --> 0:01:33.960 index level, but I think largely Google, which we'll talk 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:37.560 about later in the program specifically, and volatility in Nvidia. 0:01:37.640 --> 0:01:40.040 It's still top of mind for so many investors, so 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:41.960 let's talk about it. Joining us for more is Anthony 0:01:42.080 --> 0:01:46.120 Segni and Bini and Mirror Prize. Sorry for Friday, not 0:01:46.240 --> 0:01:49.880 enough Coffee Financial Chief market Strategist. The market volatility it 0:01:49.880 --> 0:01:53.120 gets you gets me anti Welcome back to the program. 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:55.440 I mean I've framed it in a very specific way. 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:58.400 We're still micro focused on the MAG seven. Whether it's 0:01:58.440 --> 0:02:03.000 a waiting consider whether it's just a newsflow consideration to 0:02:03.080 --> 0:02:05.320 someone like you looking at the markets. Is that still 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:06.160 truly the case? 0:02:07.800 --> 0:02:09.960 Yeah, I mean I think the next few weeks are 0:02:09.960 --> 0:02:12.480 all about earnings. We're going to have a big week. 0:02:12.520 --> 0:02:15.160 If you thought this week was volatile, wait for next week. 0:02:15.560 --> 0:02:19.560 We have Microsoft, Apple, Amazon, Meta, all of these companies 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:22.600 are reporting. They're about a third of the Nasdaq by 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.120 market cap weight, and so there's going to be a 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:28.880 lot of attention on the earnings from these MAG seven names. 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:31.240 And when we get later in August, we're going to 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.440 see Nvidia, and that's been the big story in the 0:02:34.440 --> 0:02:37.240 first half of what's been driving the market higher. So 0:02:37.520 --> 0:02:41.440 I think there's a little bit of trepidation around earnings season. 0:02:41.680 --> 0:02:44.280 I think earnings are going to be fine for the 0:02:44.360 --> 0:02:48.040 MAG seven, but there's certainly some trepidation if they're going 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:51.200 to meet kind of the whisper numbers and the expectations 0:02:51.200 --> 0:02:53.840 that have been set, which are very high. Valuations are 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:56.600 very high in these Mag seven names, and I think 0:02:56.639 --> 0:02:58.840 the market's starting to pay a little bit more attention 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:02.040 to all the style that didn't keep pace with the 0:03:02.120 --> 0:03:06.440 Mag seven. Financial small cap cyclicals outside at tech, these 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:08.440 are the areas that are driving the market right now. 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:12.200 Anthony, have you been one of those who've thought that 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:16.240 the valuations have become silly, absurd or have you actually 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:18.400 thought there was reason for and Video getting to its 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:19.679 three trillion dollar market cap? 0:03:20.840 --> 0:03:23.800 Yeah, I think it's fair to question some of the 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:28.680 valuations of big tech right now, certainly based on AI 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:32.120 and some of the payoffs that may take a few 0:03:32.120 --> 0:03:35.760 more quarters or years to develop, and so I think 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:38.880 it's right for investors to question some of the valuations. 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:43.320 But I also think the secular drivers of artificial intelligence 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:46.480 are real, and I think they will generate profit for 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:50.360 these companies. They're already generating profits for companies like in Nvidia, 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:54.480 in Microsoft, and Alphabet. It's just the question are they 0:03:54.640 --> 0:03:59.520 meeting elevated expectations right now? And it's normal to see 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:03.040 over the course of a cycle investors kind of get 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:06.280 ahead of where the profits really are. They take those 0:04:07.640 --> 0:04:11.720 expectations back. Provides an opportunity for investors to look at 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:14.600 some of these stocks that have really moved higher, maybe 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:16.680 at a little bit cheaper price. And so if you 0:04:16.680 --> 0:04:20.160 have a balanced view of both growth and some of 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.320 the cyclical opportunities that have developed, I think you can 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.760 use a pullback in big tech as a means to 0:04:25.800 --> 0:04:27.760 put more dollars to work. 0:04:29.040 --> 0:04:31.320 And the one reason that we watch Alphabet, the parent 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:34.000 of Google, so closely is largely because it goes first right, 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:37.760 and it gives us an indication of how cloud will do, 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:40.640 but also advertising will do, and then that sets us 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.000 up for this week next week that you use perfectly 0:04:44.040 --> 0:04:47.520 framed for us. But there is more to the market 0:04:47.560 --> 0:04:51.200 than just earnings. Are you able to apportion some waiting 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:54.039 to how much the market is looking at the rate 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:57.160 cycle against what the mag seven do in terms of EPs? 0:04:57.200 --> 0:04:57.520 Growth. 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:00.000 Yeah. I think it's a great question. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.120 And obviously in the first half there was a lot 0:05:02.120 --> 0:05:05.880 of questions about the economy, inflation, interest rates, and so 0:05:05.960 --> 0:05:08.720 a lot of investors piled into big tech because the 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:12.120 profits of these companies were very visible. I think what 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:13.960 we're seeing in the second half, or at least at 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:17.040 the start, is that there's a little bit more clarity 0:05:17.120 --> 0:05:20.919 or certainty about a soft landing. Interest rates look like 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.560 they might come down starting in September from a FED 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:27.200 rate cut. Inflation is moderating lower. We saw that in 0:05:27.240 --> 0:05:31.000 the PCE data this morning, and so I think there's 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:34.719 a little bit more confidence in the other four hundred 0:05:34.760 --> 0:05:37.600 and ninety three s and p five hundred companies that 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:41.080 their profits and their outlooks might actually improve in the 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:44.880 second half. And so that macro backdrop that was a 0:05:44.880 --> 0:05:47.640 little bit more uncertain in the first half is starting 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:49.960 to get clarity in the second half, and I think 0:05:49.960 --> 0:05:52.760 that's why you're seeing some money rotate out of big 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:55.880 tech in those magnificent seven names and into some of 0:05:55.920 --> 0:05:59.719 the areas like small caps and financials and industrials and 0:06:00.240 --> 0:06:03.720 which are performing better today. I think investors are starting 0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.000 to give those areas a second. 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:08.640 Look, Anthony. The reason we love your experience over the 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:10.440 last couple of decades is because you don't just look 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:14.279 at certain equities or asset classes, but you look globally 0:06:14.320 --> 0:06:17.760 as well. This rotation has kind of been happening in 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.839 the Japanese names have sold off European chip makers too, 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:23.239 and I'm interested as to whether or not you're seeing 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:25.240 some global narratives build as well. 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:28.640 Yeah, I think it's a great question. I mean, you're 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:33.159 certainly seeing normalization in terms of economic growth patterns, inflation, 0:06:33.360 --> 0:06:36.000 and interest rates, not only here in the US but 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:36.880 in Europe. 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:38.080 In Japan. 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:43.480 Japan will have their FED, their BOJ meeting next week. 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:49.000 They're talking about actually normalizing policy by hiking rates. In Europe, 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.919 You've seen the ECB cut rates in June. They're on 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.400 pace to cut rates again in September. That's because there's 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.919 this balance between growth and inflation. And think about the 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.719 narrative over the last two years, not only in the 0:07:02.800 --> 0:07:06.640 US but across the globe of really high inflation, really 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:09.960 high growth, and really high interest rates. And what we've 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.440 seen over the last six to twelve months is more 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:18.480 normalization in inflation, the opportunity to normalize interest rates and 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:23.120 a pretty solid economic environment in Europe and in Japan. 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:26.640 These areas are performing well and could continue to perform 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:30.960 well if investors look for that cyclical trade outside of 0:07:31.080 --> 0:07:33.920 big tech, which is really dominating US indices. 0:07:34.120 --> 0:07:36.760 Anthony, It's always great to catch up with you. Happy weekend, 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:42.280 Anthony segment. Many of America's financial. 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:50.280 Apple's losing ground in the China market, with the iPhone 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:52.760 officially falling out of the top five in the nation 0:07:53.160 --> 0:07:56.320 according to new data from IDC. Let's break it all 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.640 down with Bloomberg Intelligence analysts An Ragrana. That's a very 0:07:59.640 --> 0:08:03.400 interesting table was showing and there's actually a chart within 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:06.800 the Bloomberg news story that shows this sort of slide 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:11.000 in position that Apple has had relatively short term mannerag 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:13.040 right and thinking towards the end of twenty twenty three 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.200 over a six month period. What is the data tell you? 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:17.600 Yeah, I mean a couple of things. 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:18.280 I would say this. 0:08:18.640 --> 0:08:22.080 You know, when it comes to Apple and China, we 0:08:22.120 --> 0:08:24.440 know over the last few years the growth has. 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:24.840 Not been there. 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:27.160 But the comment I will take you back to what 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:29.560 they said in their last earnings call is they grew 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:32.760 in China while all third party data providers were saying that, 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.439 you know, China shipments are down. Now there is always 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.800 a timing issue in terms of, you know, when the 0:08:38.360 --> 0:08:42.160 product is shipped out of the warehouse versus when it's activated, 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:45.200 when it's recognized as revenue. So I think next week's 0:08:45.200 --> 0:08:48.000 earnings is going to be extremely important to see what's 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.480 really going on in China for Apple, and I think, 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:54.079 because you know, to be fairly blunt, that is the 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.480 most important thing for over the next twelve months for Apple, 0:08:57.840 --> 0:08:59.480 far more than you know, anything else. 0:08:59.520 --> 0:08:59.960 At this point. 0:09:00.440 --> 0:09:03.360 The way in which the IDC tracks the data, whether 0:09:03.400 --> 0:09:06.920 it's government, whether it's actually seeing what third parties are 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.440 really up to. We can sort of try and dig 0:09:09.480 --> 0:09:12.480 into the nuance there, Ana Rag, But the overall narrative 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:16.040 seems to be that Apple loses position and Huawei gains. 0:09:16.360 --> 0:09:17.360 Is that the right one to make? 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:20.920 Oh yeah, but that's because over the last twelve months 0:09:20.920 --> 0:09:23.640 we have seen a massive upgrade in Huaweve phones. But 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.120 there's a reason for it because Wawe hadn't you know, 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:28.760 launched a phone for several years, so the people who 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:31.120 had the older phones were going out to go out 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:34.280 and refresh that or buy the newer ones, Whereas as 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:36.840 we know for Apple Life phones, we are seeing an 0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:40.200 elongation in the refresh cycle because the product's been you know, 0:09:40.280 --> 0:09:43.000 a far more reliable product as well as it's expensive, 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.520 so people are keeping it longer. So that's really has 0:09:45.559 --> 0:09:48.319 been the biggest issue for Apple for over the last 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:50.760 I would say two and a half years or so. 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:55.040 The domestic Chinese handset makers are a factor here, right, 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:59.440 Ana rag and Blimberg's reported about government policy directing government 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.880 employees or state backed enterprises to leave the iPhone at home. 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:05.880 How do you model that at Bloomberg Intelligence, that kind 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:07.080 of policy perspective. 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:10.200 Yeah, and again, as I said, you know, going into 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.600 the last quarter earnings, all of these things were you 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:15.079 know at Player at that time too. Meanwhile, Apple came 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:17.240 out and said that they grew in the Greater China region, 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:20.360 and that's why I am more inclined to wait for 0:10:20.440 --> 0:10:23.800 Apple's comments rather than any of the data sources. But 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:27.120 having said that, I think Apple is going to have 0:10:27.520 --> 0:10:30.440 a bit of a tough time if you see the 0:10:30.520 --> 0:10:33.960 Republican you know, president coming in, because if the China 0:10:34.080 --> 0:10:36.199 rhetoric is going to go up over the next two 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:38.400 to three years. You know, Apple's going to be right 0:10:38.440 --> 0:10:40.560 in the middle of the US China issue, so I 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:44.320 think really Apple's not as clear cut at this point 0:10:44.320 --> 0:10:46.800 compared to you know, let's say somebody like an Amazon 0:10:46.920 --> 0:10:49.600 or Microsoft in terms of the visibility over the next 0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:50.440 two to three years. 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:52.280 Of course, we had that reporting earlier in the week 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:55.360 that Micron and Apple executives were visiting China of late 0:10:55.400 --> 0:10:58.680 and talking to government officials and Agrana. Great to have 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:01.240 some time with you, Bloomberg Elligence. We thank you. Meanwhile, 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:04.360 let's just talk about how politics is affecting China US 0:11:04.440 --> 0:11:07.040 relationships a bit more. China based Byte Dance is going 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.320 all out in Washington to keep TikTok from being banned, 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:14.280 with lawyers, lobbyists, and of course the money joining us. 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:17.480 Now with the details, Mike Shephard, you understand more than 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:22.240 many the intricacies of US and China relationships, and TikTok 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:25.280 is just fighting this hard because they have to do 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:26.640 all They're going to be out. 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:30.160 This is really existential for TikTok and for byte Dance 0:11:30.200 --> 0:11:33.880 to be able to maintain this kind of access through TikTok. 0:11:33.960 --> 0:11:36.840 And it's one hundred and seventy million users to what 0:11:37.000 --> 0:11:40.480 may be the most lucrative advertising market in the world, 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:43.960 and TikTok is not going gently into that good night 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:47.480 in the face of this law that was passed and 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:51.520 signed in April. It requires the company the app to 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:55.000 be sold by byte Dance by January nineteenth, or will 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:58.280 face a ban on its US operations, and that would 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:02.760 be devastating to the company and also to US users 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:06.720 who have really grown to depend on it not only 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.240 as a source of entertainment, but also as a source 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:12.280 of income and business. There are many small businesses who 0:12:12.280 --> 0:12:15.080 are active on the app as well, and TikTok is 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:17.320 deploying them too as part of this campaign. 0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:21.720 Mike, there's an issue of language here that I find 0:12:22.160 --> 0:12:25.600 just crucial that when this law was passed in April, 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:30.280 it was a divest or ban law, and it just 0:12:30.320 --> 0:12:33.360 seems like the divest part is just not a talking 0:12:33.440 --> 0:12:36.760 point for TikTok or the US government at this stage. 0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:41.360 I'm glad you brought that up, because when you see, 0:12:41.400 --> 0:12:45.959 for example, Vice President Harris joining TikTok as of yesterday 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:51.080 to help boost her campaign against President Donald former President 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:54.920 Donald Trump, what we are seeing is that there is 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:58.360 great utility in this app. The app itself is not 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:02.120 the issue. It really is the ownership. However, we are 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:05.839 seeing zero movement when it comes to a sale. Bite 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:09.360 Dan says TikTok is not up for sale. The Chinese 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:13.360 government has expressed objections to any idea that this crown 0:13:13.480 --> 0:13:16.600 jewel of Bite Dance would be forced to be sold 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:17.679 by the US government. 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:22.280 Boombergs Mike Shepherd, who leads our coverage of tech and politics, 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:25.120 thank you very much. A story that Mike just mentioned 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:29.079 in the context of TikTok, Vice President Kamala Harris officially 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:32.559 joined the app with her first personal account since she 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:36.079 began her presidential campaign four days ago. TikTok and other 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:41.239 social media platforms has seen a groundswell of viral memes, images, 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:45.480 and videos, all featuring the Vice president. Worth noting, President 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:50.080 Joe Biden did sign that law into a bill in April, 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:53.439 forcing Byte Dance to sell the app by January. As 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:57.199 Michael outlined or faced the prospects being barred from operating 0:13:57.559 --> 0:14:01.160 in the United States. This is an astonishing sitch, Cuasian Caroline. 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:04.840 What's also astonishing is how expensive some of those power 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:07.160 brookers and lawyers are that they're using fifteen hundred in 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:10.080 that story an hour. Meanwhile, look, let's just talk China 0:14:10.080 --> 0:14:12.240 a little bit more. But in the context of esports. 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.440 The company an Ip kicks off trading on the NASLAC 0:14:15.520 --> 0:14:17.319 co founder and chairman Mario Hoo is going to be 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:19.520 joining us as Bluemare Technology. 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:41.320 It's time for talking tech and first start. The SEC 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:44.840 is suing short seller Andrew Left and his Citron Capital. 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.400 The regulators alleging that Left n Stron generated about twenty 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:52.080 million dollars in illegal profits and is accusing him of 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:56.160 committing fraud through stock trade, social media posts and research reports. 0:14:56.200 --> 0:15:00.040 The SEC says Left would allegedally make a recommendation and 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:04.440 then capitalize on the resulting movements on prices far different 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:08.720 than what he'd recommended. Left had no immediate comment. Plus 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:11.680 Apple agrees to AI safeguards. The tech giant is the 0:15:11.720 --> 0:15:15.200 latest company set to adopt a set of voluntary protections 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:18.840 for AI crafted by the Biden administration. Apple will join 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:21.720 the likes of Open Ai and Alphabet, as well as Microsoft, 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:26.840 committing to testing its AI systems for discriminatory tendency, security flaws, 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:30.360 and national security risks. And shares of TSMC for the 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.440 most in three months in Taiwan. This is the country's 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.600 stock market reopened after two days of closures due to 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:40.240 a typhoon. The stock decline joining a global route in 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:44.920 tech stocks as investors rethink their AI positions. TSMC's Taiwan 0:15:44.960 --> 0:15:48.960 listing has now fallen more than fourteen percent from its peak. 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:53.560 Carrot and a company not fearful of that volatility is 0:15:53.640 --> 0:15:57.000 Chinese Esports Company and ip it began training today. It 0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.880 opened at thirty dollars eleven after pricing the IPO at No. 0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:02.400 Nine dollars per share, we're is putting back to about 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:05.040 that nine dollars level. A please to welcome NMP co 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:09.800 founder and chairman Mario Ho. Mario, why go public in 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:10.960 the US? 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:14.120 Well, this is the biggest capital markets platform in the 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:15.240 world for us. 0:16:15.480 --> 0:16:17.160 We've always thought that. 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:19.400 In order for us to truly go global and to 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:21.600 see partnerships all over the world, we need to be 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:24.240 at the biggest exchange, and that for US is Nasdaq. 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.200 And so give us the thesis. You're going out to 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:30.680 the investor base, obviously you're trying to woo them on 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.040 the business model. The business model one is perhaps hard 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.080 for a US consumer to understand, because for US we 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:40.640 think China regulatory crackdown gaming, but actually esports is something 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:43.479 very different, well loved national pride. 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:47.440 Absolutely, esports is well loved national pride everywhere in the world, 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.880 every single government, exemplified by the recent news the fact 0:16:50.880 --> 0:16:52.680 that there is going to be an Esports Olympics at 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:55.760 Saudi Arabia in twenty twenty five. I mean, for US, 0:16:56.400 --> 0:16:59.080 whether it is an investor from China, whether it's an 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.440 investor from the US, so US the business model of 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:03.800 running esports teams, the excitement that comes out of it, 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:04.919 can be understood by everyone. 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:08.720 Our game is and esports fans in the audience will 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.840 know that you're the parent company or holding company behind 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:16.560 Ninja's in Pajamas in Sweden, ESV five in China. And 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.399 you guys talk a lot about the big market opportunity, 0:17:19.480 --> 0:17:22.600 right You cite this report that esports globally is going 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:24.600 to be a one hundred billion dollar a year market 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:28.200 by twenty twenty seven. Your teams do well, but you've 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.919 booked about nineteen million dollars in prize money. So for 0:17:31.960 --> 0:17:34.920 all the investors watching, how do you make that number 0:17:34.920 --> 0:17:35.560 a lot bigger. 0:17:36.320 --> 0:17:39.960 Well, prize money is only one part of our business revenue, 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.719 which belongs to the part where we run esport teams. 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:44.439 We also do a lot other than that. 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:46.960 We also do talent management. We have sort of an 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:50.280 IMG where we sign and manage a lot of esports talent. 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.240 We also do offline events production, very much like the 0:17:53.440 --> 0:17:56.240 Esports Live Nation, and in the future we're going into 0:17:56.359 --> 0:18:00.160 so many different new avenues like esports, hotels, games publishing. 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.640 We're definitely going to be raising the overall revenue pie 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:05.879 of the company, not just prize money, but that is 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:08.440 something we care about because our brands are a very, 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:09.520 very winning brands. 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:14.679 You mentioned the impact of having esports at the Saudi 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:20.080 Arabia Olympics. That's a really interesting global view of this market. 0:18:20.240 --> 0:18:22.840 Could you sort of compare and contrast for us the 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:26.040 health of esports in the USA against the health of 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:29.080 esports in a market like China, for example. 0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:34.280 Well, I think in terms of monetization and sponsorships, because 0:18:34.280 --> 0:18:38.399 the US has a very well functioned traditional platform for 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.920 traditional sports, I think the esport teams tend. 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:43.480 To do very very well here. 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:47.120 On the other side, in China, for example, you'll see 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:51.080 a bigger size of following, more people, bigger population, more 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:54.800 population that follows games and esports. So for esport teams 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:56.920 in China to rack up a huge following and then 0:18:56.960 --> 0:18:59.080 to monetize that would also be easier. So it's a 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:02.199 different demographic, but in terms of competitiveness, I think it 0:19:02.280 --> 0:19:05.400 is the same everywhere in the world, And like you said, 0:19:05.440 --> 0:19:07.880 Saudi Arabia, I would be very excited to see how 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:10.199 the US teams pitch against the Chinese teams and of 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:11.640 course teams from Europe and all the. 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:12.120 World as well. 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:18.520 Maria. What sort of companies are wanting to really get 0:19:18.520 --> 0:19:21.280 in on the esport crescendo, I mean many sort of 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:24.120 think back to ultimately the collapse of phase over here 0:19:24.119 --> 0:19:27.879 in the US and a larger life celebrities involved, but 0:19:27.960 --> 0:19:31.320 also worrying around the commitment of sponsors. What sort of 0:19:31.359 --> 0:19:33.960 companies are wanting to cral around you and wanting to 0:19:33.960 --> 0:19:35.800 support some of the players that you represent and the 0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:37.040 talent that you're going to be managing. 0:19:38.080 --> 0:19:41.200 Well, first off, I think it is good to have 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:45.560 a correction in the esports market globally where we're now 0:19:45.720 --> 0:19:49.399 as esports companies are are credited when you're able to 0:19:49.480 --> 0:19:52.520 prove a path to profitability, and that's great. That's for 0:19:52.600 --> 0:19:55.320 the overall health of the esports industry worldwide. For US, 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:58.639 we have insane sponsorship from all over the world. You 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:05.439 see companies like Red Bull BYD, China Mobile, Fila Puma, 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:09.160 brands that are targeted to are targeting towards young people 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:11.639 around the world. Will still find that very attractive to 0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:14.800 be represented by esports teams and have their logos on 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:18.480 our shirts. Another reason for that is some companies want 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:22.040 to really youngify or turn their brand younger in terms 0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:25.560 of audience, and for those characterist companies, we're sort of 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:27.000 a very good partner for them. 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:33.760 Mario Jackson Wang is a huge star mainland China in particular, 0:20:33.920 --> 0:20:36.760 huge following, and you've kind of tied League of Legends 0:20:36.800 --> 0:20:40.160 into his following. Will you replicate that strategy with any 0:20:40.160 --> 0:20:42.320 other celebrity in Europe or in the USA. 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:46.679 Absolutely, we're not saying no to that. The success of 0:20:46.800 --> 0:20:49.719 Jackson on his own, but also combining with the gaming 0:20:50.040 --> 0:20:53.240 audience has been something that's taken the market by storm. 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.120 So if we're able to if I'm able to form 0:20:56.160 --> 0:20:57.919 a friendship as strong as the one I have with 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:01.199 Jackson here with somebody with the US celebrity. Absolutely, but 0:21:01.280 --> 0:21:04.400 from business perspective, yes, those are our possibilities that we're 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:06.960 looking to seek into the US markets. 0:21:07.200 --> 0:21:10.399 Mario Ho, co founder, chairman and co CEO of NIP Group, 0:21:10.480 --> 0:21:22.240 thank you, Welcome back to Blinbow Technology. Ed Ludlow in San. 0:21:22.119 --> 0:21:25.320 Francisco, Caroline Hyde in London. Let's all quit check on 0:21:25.359 --> 0:21:27.680 these markets because it has been a tumultuous time this week, 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:29.919 to say the very least. But we are up this 0:21:30.040 --> 0:21:32.639 Friday on the NASAK six tens percent, even though we 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:35.560 have been down for three straight weeks. More broadly on 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:38.600 the benchmarks and lost. Remember about a trillion dollars worth 0:21:38.600 --> 0:21:40.720 of market cap over in the NASDAT one hundred rotheran 0:21:40.760 --> 0:21:44.520 two thousand gains OUTPERFORMSS again, small caps outshining big tech 0:21:44.520 --> 0:21:46.639 because we see that rotation in place. Bitcoin though a 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:50.240 little bit of love. Remember we have well previous President 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:54.159 Trump speaking at the Bitcoin event in Nashville this weekend. 0:21:54.200 --> 0:21:56.000 We'll see what he says for the cryptos SEMA up 0:21:56.000 --> 0:21:58.640 three point five percent as risk assets do better across 0:21:58.680 --> 0:22:00.760