WEBVTT - THE PIPELINE FOR BLACK COMPUTER SCIENTISTS 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:01.560 I think the first thing is first, you can't you 0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:03.560 can't get around this. You have to be good at 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:07.880 what you do, Like you have to invest in learning 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:11.119 what you're really good at and just doing that to 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:13.680 the best of your ability. Like that's the one thing 0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:16.040 that that's the one impression that you're gonna make with 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:18.640 most people, they're gonna remember, did you say what you're 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:21.479 gonna do? You ran that event and it went really well. 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.040 You were, you know, on time. You know, you communicated, like, 0:00:25.320 --> 0:00:27.080 just be a good whatever you want to be in 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:31.120 the world, Like, just be good at that. I'm Will 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:35.080 Lucas and this is Black Tech, Green Money. I'm gonna 0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:36.800 answer this you to some of the biggest names, some 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:39.880 of the brightest minds and brilliant ideas. If you're black, 0:00:39.880 --> 0:00:42.160 in building or simply using tech to secution your back, 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:50.680 this podcast is for you. Jeron Petty is founder and 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:54.360 CEO at color Stack, the nonprofit police organization that helps 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:56.680 black and last the next computer science through this good 0:00:56.680 --> 0:01:00.440 degreed and hired. When he was at Cornell, he worked 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:03.200 as an Internet Google and later turned them down for 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:06.240 a full time gig to start his own entrepreneurial journey. 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:09.600 We've asked so many conversations NY said White about the 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:12.600 pipeline for black talent in tech. I wanted to get 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:16.039 an idea of its current state. Torn who works on 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:19.200 this issue every day provides enough day. When you look 0:01:19.200 --> 0:01:22.000 at the data, it is about thirty percent um. You know, 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.840 Black and Latin X computer science students or people make 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:29.240 up percent of the population of c S grads and 0:01:29.360 --> 0:01:32.679 about ten percent of the industry. So there's drop offs 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:36.000 at each level where you can say not enough students 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:38.680 are graduating with CS degrees to begin with, but also 0:01:38.840 --> 0:01:41.399 from the ones that are, they're not getting jobs in 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:44.520 software right then maybe going into it or becoming a 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.160 teacher or doing something that they weren't intending to do. 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:50.320 So we're trying to solve this like multilated problem of 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:55.720 like access to jobs, placement, retention, and then even attraction 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:59.720 to to bring that to right. And at the onset, 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:04.560 do you see enough black students interested in computer science? 0:02:06.240 --> 0:02:08.799 So I studied CS myself, right, so I would c 0:02:09.000 --> 0:02:11.880 S grad um And so when I was on campus, 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:14.840 the whole reason I started doing this work was because 0:02:15.000 --> 0:02:17.480 I did see that, I did see the interest. But 0:02:17.600 --> 0:02:20.600 what you would find is that even in that intro 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:23.520 course at a lot of these universities, the intro courses. 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:26.239 In the intro course, you know, they kind of gotten 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:29.000 so used to these people that come in and have 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:32.240 been learning how to study, how to code and program 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.520 from when they were in middle school. So the professors 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:38.440 I think have adapted for the wrong reasons and have 0:02:38.600 --> 0:02:42.320 now expected so much prior knowledge, where black students, Brown 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:46.480 students are going into these intro courses and they feel behind, 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:49.399 and once they get a backgrade on that on that 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:52.600 first test or project, they're dropping the class, They're dropping 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:55.800 the nature. Yes, I was reading something a different eneview. 0:02:55.840 --> 0:02:57.720 You were doing it. You were talking about your personal 0:02:57.720 --> 0:03:00.040 mission that you found many of your peers you're in 0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:04.120 their parts in these classes, weren't doing well in these 0:03:04.120 --> 0:03:08.240 classes UM. And you talked about this as pervasive and 0:03:08.720 --> 0:03:12.080 why is that pervasive? White many would say we just 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:14.400 aren't as talented or you know, we don't have the 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:17.160 proclivity from map and science. Well, in your research and 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:18.960 in your work, what have you found to be the 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:22.520 reasons why we're not UM ready for these classes? And 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:25.720 so many respects. Yeah, I think the first thing is 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.160 definitely you know what I just mentioned about prior knowledge, 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:29.720 like if you didn't go to a if you didn't 0:03:29.720 --> 0:03:33.280 go to that private school, right that had cus one 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:36.600 on one as a freshman, Right. I think public education 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:39.360 is just catching up to see US education UM and 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:42.240 baking that into the curriculum for high schools. But if 0:03:42.320 --> 0:03:43.960 you either didn't if you either didn't go to a 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:47.200 school UM that had the coursework or you had a 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:50.000 family friend that just was able to expose you to 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:52.680 that at a young age, you are coming in at 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:57.080 a college level feelings so behind. So there's that there's 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.400 that mental kind of barrier where you just are not 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:01.920 as comp it when you're going into your first intro 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:05.200 course and everybody else seems to know everything that's already 0:04:05.280 --> 0:04:08.840 like from day one, you already discouraged, right. And then 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:12.680 I think some other areas within on the campus where 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.680 students are kind of sawing themselves short is, for example, 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:19.360 office hours. I was at t A for a lot 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:24.960 of the common CS courses at Cornell, and for whatever reason, 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:27.760 you know, a lot of students would wouldn't go to 0:04:27.800 --> 0:04:30.720 office hours, right. Maybe it's because of the same issue 0:04:30.760 --> 0:04:32.400 they're facing in classes where they feel like if they 0:04:32.440 --> 0:04:35.400 go to office hours they're just gonna be you know, 0:04:35.800 --> 0:04:39.080 reinformed that they're like behind or feel like they're dumb 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:41.960 for asking questions. Um, but it's a lot of those 0:04:41.960 --> 0:04:46.279 small things where privileged kind of in network students already 0:04:46.320 --> 0:04:48.520 know that like office hours, office hours are there, I 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:51.280 can go talk to the professor, I can use these resources. 0:04:51.560 --> 0:04:53.560 But when you feel so behind and when you're not 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:56.920 kind of in these environments already, you just don't feel 0:04:56.920 --> 0:05:02.120 like you can participate in the same way. With that response, then, 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:05.800 is waiting until we get to college too late to 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:08.680 make sure that we're ready for you know, actually getting 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:12.320 internships to be able to get jobs. I don't believe so. 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:14.080 I mean, I think, you know, shout out to all 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:17.080 the Organs, COD Nation, UM America on Tech that are 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:18.720 doing that are doing work at the high school level, 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.520 Black Girls Code. I think it does. It is helpful 0:05:21.560 --> 0:05:24.000 to start earlier and kind of get that exposure. But 0:05:24.040 --> 0:05:26.080 I don't think it's too late. I think within when 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:29.960 you're on a campus that is already about discovery of 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:34.000 oneself and realigious learning and expanding your horizons. I do 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:37.080 think there is hope where there are students who are 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:41.880 still primed for pushing their their limits and kind of 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:46.200 expanding their horizons and trying something new. But it does 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:50.159 take intentional effort at the earliest stage, that first fresh 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:52.680 that freshman year, because once you the way the curriculum 0:05:52.720 --> 0:05:54.840 and the major system is set up at a lot 0:05:54.880 --> 0:05:57.640 of these schools is you know, if you try to 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:02.000 change your major once you're a sophomore junior, near impossible, right, 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:04.320 And so you really have to target and support those 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.760 students at the freshman level. And I'll even tell you 0:06:06.760 --> 0:06:08.960 this from when I was at Cornell and we were 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:13.400 doing a lot of work um with underclassmen, we actually 0:06:13.480 --> 0:06:17.960 started doing events that basically made other people who weren't C. 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:20.679 S Field jealous, right, like, oh, this is so cool, 0:06:20.760 --> 0:06:22.640 Like you know, all my friends are doing this thing 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:24.560 and they know how to they know how Siri works, 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:26.400 and they know how the algorithms of YouTube and all 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:28.880 these different social media work. And they were like, Okay, 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:31.880 I'll do a CS minor, right, And that's happening at 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:34.880 the college. All these the students that were premed, right, 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:37.040 but now they're adding a mind a CS minor. So 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:39.560 I don't think it's too late at all. So as 0:06:39.600 --> 0:06:42.920 an entrepreneur, when you're going through your you know, ideating 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.120 process of the company you're going to start, the organization 0:06:45.120 --> 0:06:48.240 you're gonna start. What was the decision making process like 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:49.640 for you when you said, you know, I'm going to 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:53.360 target those college students instead of building an organization like 0:06:53.400 --> 0:06:57.000 a Black Girl's Code that actually gets them younger, earlier 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:58.600 in the process, so that they by the time it 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:02.479 gets to college, they're more prepared. That's a good question. 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:04.320 I think this is the lesson that I have from us, 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:07.159 that I learned from myself but also trying to share 0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.160 with other entrepreneurs, is that you know, you don't want 0:07:10.160 --> 0:07:14.440 to think too much about what you're building. I think incremental, 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:18.360 like solving the problem in front of you incrementally, you 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:21.520 kind of just stumble upon a business. Right. That's what 0:07:21.600 --> 0:07:25.720 happened for me my freshman year, I was I got 0:07:25.760 --> 0:07:28.840 an internship at two Sigma, had a really great opportunity there. 0:07:29.400 --> 0:07:31.880 My sophomore year, I came back from that internship feeling 0:07:32.000 --> 0:07:35.760 very discouraged because there weren't other you know, black interns there, 0:07:36.000 --> 0:07:38.760 or I noticed that my friends on campus didn't get 0:07:38.760 --> 0:07:40.920 internships that summer, or weren't doing well in their classes. 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:43.680 Or were considering dropping. And so I said, okay, how 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:45.440 can I just solve that problem? How can I just 0:07:45.560 --> 0:07:47.480 get my friends to come with me on all these 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:50.440 different opportunities you know that I have. And so that 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:53.680 was the problem that I solved, you know, in was 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:56.480 I no longer have enough time in the day to 0:07:56.640 --> 0:07:58.920 mentor all these students. So how can I scale that 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:01.880 by creating a community of peer to peer support? Okay, 0:08:01.920 --> 0:08:05.120 that was my problem I solved in en by building 0:08:05.120 --> 0:08:08.880 the club. And then from twenty it's like, okay, well 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:11.120 how can I provide this value to more students on 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:15.200 other campuses? Right? And so it was just me incrementally 0:08:15.320 --> 0:08:17.600 solving the problem that was right in front of me. 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:20.160 And I think that's how everybody should approach, you know, 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.000 start you know, starting a company, right. You don't have 0:08:22.040 --> 0:08:25.120 to build a Google tomorrow. It's just what's the smallest 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:27.800 version of that problem you can solve today? And so 0:08:27.880 --> 0:08:31.040 to the idea that you know, not everybody specifically, I'm 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:33.480 talking about black people and brown people who come into 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.920 college aren't ready for the math courses and the science courses, 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:40.640 but what are some other barriers that keep them from graduating? 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:43.640 And then you know, then allowing the opportunity to go 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:48.120 get internships and jobs by out of school. Yeah, I 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:50.560 think there's there's so many. I mean there's a whole 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:53.040 Pockets episode on those barriers. But I think a couple 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:56.280 that I even I know, I knew already as a 0:08:56.320 --> 0:08:59.000 student myself, but then I learned from building color stack. 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:04.760 One it's just financial, right, Like some students just you know, 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:08.360 can't well drop you know, drop out of school or 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:11.160 or changed from a four year to a two year 0:09:11.320 --> 0:09:16.480 or just be you know, indefinitely on leave of absence 0:09:16.520 --> 0:09:18.760 just because of money. Right. So I think there's there's 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:23.439 definitely a conversation around the affordability of school, especially these 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:27.640 private institutions versus state schools, where sometimes just money that 0:09:27.640 --> 0:09:31.360 that prevents someone from continuing um. The second thing I 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:36.559 think about a lot is no, no two CS degrees 0:09:36.600 --> 0:09:40.240 are made equal, right, you know you would think that, yes, 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:44.640 from a Cornell or you know, a Kinesaw State or 0:09:44.720 --> 0:09:47.840 Study of the University, like they all offer a computer science. 0:09:47.840 --> 0:09:49.920 So no matter which one I pick, I should be good. 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:53.440 The truth of the matter is that academia has not 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:56.960 stayed on par with industry, and so a lot of 0:09:57.000 --> 0:09:59.360 what it takes to become a software engineering industry is 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:01.920 taught out side of the classroom. And so there are 0:10:01.920 --> 0:10:05.439 two kind of sub reasons why you know, students aren't 0:10:05.440 --> 0:10:09.320 able to keep up. One is if you don't have 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:12.400 the time right outside of a class where you're a 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:16.320 commuter student or you're working another job to pay for school, 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:18.120 and you think that you know, you can just do 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:20.840 your classes and do homework and be done. You know 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:23.720 you're gonna be s sol when you find out that 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:25.560 in order to really get that job, you actually have 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:27.600 to do your homework, get a good grade, but then 0:10:27.679 --> 0:10:30.320 also learn how to become a software engineer. And you know, 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:32.680 when you're in a privileged position of just being on 0:10:32.760 --> 0:10:35.120 campus and just focusing on school and all that's taken 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:37.760 care of, you have that time, but many of these 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.840 students don't. And then then on the other hand, you 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:46.160 also don't have the curriculum that is tied and kind 0:10:46.160 --> 0:10:49.840 of pegged two industry standards, where a school like an 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:53.480 M I T or Carnegie Mellon they have partnerships with 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:56.720 these companies to build curriculums. That's relevant. But if you're 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.400 going to a local a local school, smaller CS department, 0:10:59.440 --> 0:11:01.880 you just just might be out of date. And so 0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:04.359 it's interesting you say that because I've had these conversations 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:08.720 about you know, industry and university is not being able 0:11:08.760 --> 0:11:10.560 to stay on part or college is not being able 0:11:10.600 --> 0:11:12.520 to stay on par with what they're educating, and so 0:11:12.600 --> 0:11:15.520 often it comes back to hiring the professors who can 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:17.599 teach it because they those professors can go to the 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.320 industry and make more money than they would, you know, 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:23.200 working in the university or a college. And so I 0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:26.800 wonder what your idea is on how much self directed 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:29.120 education we need to do, even if you're in school 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:32.360 for your CS degree, how much of this outside of 0:11:32.360 --> 0:11:34.000 that to your you did you did talk a little 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:35.560 bit about this, and you know, you've got a job 0:11:35.600 --> 0:11:37.600 and you've got other things to pay for to pay 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:41.360 for that education. How much of that self directed effort 0:11:41.480 --> 0:11:44.719 is required in order to get the look from a 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:49.560 big company or a startup that you may be interested in. Yeah, 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.160 I think I think for the most part, when you 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:55.600 look at a big like, the bigger the company, the 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:59.839 more resources they have for learning and development. So as 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:02.319 long as you can prove that you can code, just 0:12:02.520 --> 0:12:05.880 generally a lot of the bigger companies with more infrastructure 0:12:05.880 --> 0:12:08.440 for learning and development. Like, if you do well in 0:12:08.480 --> 0:12:11.600 your classes and you can demonstrate your basic knowledge of coding, 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.160 you'll be able to kind of secure at least beyond 0:12:14.160 --> 0:12:17.760 their radar and be competitive for roles at bigger companies. 0:12:18.200 --> 0:12:20.960 If you're talking about mid sized company and especially for 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:23.480 a startup, they're going to expect you to come and 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:26.600 hit the ground running. So it's gonna require you to, 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:30.400 you know, subscribe to certain newsletters so you know what 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:33.000 the newest tech tech is. Like JavaScript has a new 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.400 framework like every year, you need to know what those are. Right, Um, 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:39.079 you're going to have to know how to build an 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:40.880 iOS app if you want to work on a team 0:12:40.960 --> 0:12:44.040 that their only product is a mobile app. Right, That's that. 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:46.840 And that's a perfect example of something that, like across 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:50.000 the board, is rarely taught in institutions. Right, Like you 0:12:50.040 --> 0:12:52.840 might how to code and Python, you might learn about databases, 0:12:52.840 --> 0:12:55.240 you might learn about machine learning, but even something like 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:59.720 iOS development isn't a thing that's typically taught in schools because, 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.800 like professors do research, and there was a much much 0:13:04.920 --> 0:13:08.600 research done on like mobile app development. It's usually like 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:12.760 database efficiency or machine learning or like programming languages compilers, 0:13:12.800 --> 0:13:17.320 so things like iOS development, which is ubiquitous in terms 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:19.840 of its impact. Everybody uses their phone and has apps. 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:22.640 You're actually not even learning that on average if you 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:24.800 get as from any school in the country. So you 0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:26.599 have to go out and take a you to me 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:29.560 course or go on YouTube or get a book. You 0:13:29.679 --> 0:13:32.720 just have to know that, and so some other things 0:13:32.760 --> 0:13:36.280 that we talked about, you know, with that are prohibitive 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.880 for students to get the degree and actually actually graduating. 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:41.960 What are some of those things that actually keep you 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:44.560 from getting a job. So let's say you've graduated, You've 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:48.240 you went to a mid level university, midlevel college, you 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:50.559 didn't go to Cornell. There not everybody as smart as you. 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:53.679 But let's say you know, I went to a mid 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.600 level school, I got my degree, and I still can't 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:58.839 get a job at the company that I'm interested in. 0:13:59.000 --> 0:14:02.520 What are some of those reasons why, other than racism? 0:14:02.880 --> 0:14:05.920 Other than that, Yeah, let's start like that's already that's 0:14:05.920 --> 0:14:10.280 the pre requisite, that's always there. Um, yeah, I think 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:15.240 I think, you know, there's there's some there's some challenges 0:14:15.320 --> 0:14:19.040 definitely when it comes to like exposure to companies, So 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:24.560 for example, you know at certain schools, like at the 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.720 top level school, you're gonna have companies flying out to 0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:30.920 be at that career. Fair right, every company that you 0:14:30.960 --> 0:14:33.360 know will go out and make sure they're at Cornell, 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:36.040 at m I T whatever to get in front of 0:14:36.040 --> 0:14:39.240 those students. What I see at the mid level schools 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:43.200 is that it's usually like local companies, and if you're 0:14:43.200 --> 0:14:47.800 at a small school in Michigan, there's no local tech company, right, 0:14:48.360 --> 0:14:53.440 So your your access and your exposure to employment is 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:58.800 usually at best I T. Right, at best, you're learning 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.720 about some org that has a back office I T 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:05.600 team that you might be able to work for, um, 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.320 you don't even know, you aren't even talking to her. 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:12.160 On the radar of like pure tech pure software companies 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.800 that are hiring software engineers, which is what you study 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.280 to be, right, So it's it's not like, let's not 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:20.080 confused that you study to be that, but the roles 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.480 and and and the opportunities that are available to you 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.200 are more aligned for I T and other things that 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.840 are not coding. So that's one of the ways that 0:15:28.880 --> 0:15:30.960 caused that obviously bridges the gap. So no matter what 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:32.880 schools are going to, your career for if you're at 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:36.480 a small school in Michigan, Illinois wherever. I mean, we 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.080 partner with fifty top tech companies today where you can 0:15:39.120 --> 0:15:41.080 immediately get on the radar. But that's like one of 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:44.280 the bigger, bigger reasons. You know, I'm glad you bring 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:46.560 up color Stack in the way that you have because 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:48.640 I'm interested in you know, colors Stack is a nonprofit 0:15:48.760 --> 0:15:53.040 number one. UM, A lot of people will ask how 0:15:53.080 --> 0:15:55.880 do you make money doing this? You know, because I 0:15:55.880 --> 0:15:58.400 mean it's is this like purely altruistic or are you 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:00.760 attempting to like be like I want build a billion 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:05.760 dollarlet organizations? Why what's the motivation behind this? Yeah, for sure, 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:08.200 there's a lot to unpack there. So for me, you 0:16:08.240 --> 0:16:11.880 know me personally, my my passion and who I am 0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:14.560 at heart is I like to help people. I'm a 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:17.920 servant leader, like I just want to help people reach 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:23.120 their full potential. So, you know, the decision to start 0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:25.120 color Stack was easy for me because I knew I'd 0:16:25.120 --> 0:16:26.880 be happy every day. Like every time I student gets 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.640 a job, even if they just get a good, great 0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:32.640 on their homework assignment, I am just fired up, like 0:16:33.000 --> 0:16:36.200 let's go. Like I'm so happy for you. UM. And 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:38.840 it doesn't matter how big we get, I'll always kind 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.520 of have that local mindset of like, if we can 0:16:41.520 --> 0:16:44.400 help one student, we're successful. UM. So that's just me. 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:48.680 That was my motivation personally. UM. Obviously, so I started 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:53.280 color Stack, this is beginning kind of peak of the 0:16:53.360 --> 0:16:57.000 pandemic UM. And so for me, I mean I still 0:16:57.080 --> 0:17:00.360 knew rationally speaking that like, I had to make this 0:17:00.400 --> 0:17:03.880 work financially. I had an offer at Google that I 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:06.000 had accepted at the time actually so I was heading 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:07.920 to Google was to be to be an associate product 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:12.919 manager UM. And basically my my calculation internally was, Hey, 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:14.520 I know I'm not going to make the same amount 0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:16.320 that I would make if I was a product manager 0:17:16.680 --> 0:17:21.119 in industry, but I want to be paid kind of respect, 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:25.840 you know appropriately, um for my time and effort working 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.840 on clubs back full time. And so I first sought 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:31.080 out to raise enough money to do that. So my 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:32.640 first goal was raised enough money to do this full 0:17:32.640 --> 0:17:34.600 time for at least couple of years. So we got 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.520 an incubation deal UM or Triple Byte, and that's that 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:39.960 was amazing. They were so supportive they got us off 0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:42.920 the ground and today I mean we have a full 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.880 time team six two contractors, and we fund that mainly 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.760 through corporate sponsorships. So similar to you know, even after 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.040 tech how you know, you guys do an event, you 0:17:52.040 --> 0:17:53.960 have all these sponsors they come in and kind of 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:56.520 try to attract talent. We're doing the same thing kind 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:58.840 of all year round through events and engagement with our 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:01.480 students and companies a budget for it. Like we're becoming 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:05.440 a line item in university recruiting budgets where they're like, hey, 0:18:05.480 --> 0:18:08.160 all right, we're doing a new strategy. Fore we gotta 0:18:08.200 --> 0:18:10.280 hit Apporte, we've gotta hit Grace Hopper, and we've got 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:13.480 a partner with color Stack. I love that. But when 0:18:13.520 --> 0:18:16.080 you go to a company and you say, look, I'm 0:18:16.119 --> 0:18:20.880 gonna help you with your black talent, there's people who 0:18:20.880 --> 0:18:23.159 came before you who said I can do that in 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:26.000 a hundred and nine coming after you who said I 0:18:26.000 --> 0:18:28.240 can do that. Like what is what is it that 0:18:28.320 --> 0:18:30.199 got them to believe that? You know Geran and what 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:32.800 he's doing with colors Stack, these are who you need 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:35.439 to be working with. Yeah, for sure. I mean I 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:37.399 think the first of a couple of early things that 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:41.119 I did strategically or I understanding do them intentionally, but 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.080 they happened that they were strategic. Um. The first thing 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:51.200 was be being a cs UH student myself. The transition 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:54.679 from this recruiter was trying to recruit me to for 0:18:54.720 --> 0:18:58.080 their company, to hey, I'm not running a nonprofit that 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:01.080 you can benefit like that was such a transition because 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:05.320 you know, these these recruiters were like trying to literally 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:07.360 trying to hire me for the new new graph programs, 0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:10.000 and you know, unfortunately said notes allow them to have 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.239 to pick one. But it was so easy to like 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:14.920 reach out to them because they're already excited about me 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.040 as a candidate, to be like, hey, well I'm doing 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.600 this other thing that's going to help you in ideally 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.480 find hundreds of more means out there in the world. 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:24.560 And they were like immediately on board because I had 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:27.439 built that trust and they already respected me for you know, 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.320 a different reason but related. So I had tons of 0:19:30.359 --> 0:19:33.600 relationships like dual Lingo is a good example, Squarespace, some 0:19:33.640 --> 0:19:36.240 of our silver partners, like those recruiters, I was in 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:38.119 their pipeline. They were trying to hire me, right, so 0:19:38.160 --> 0:19:41.720 it's easy to kind of leverage those relationships and then 0:19:41.720 --> 0:19:44.600 the second thing I connected with UM he's on my 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:48.159 board now wahab will Hobba Lobby. He's the founder of 0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:50.880 a community called u r X, which is a community 0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.840 of university recruiters and so we connected, we hit it off. 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:56.280 I asked him to join from my board and like 0:19:57.440 --> 0:20:00.000 the brand, equity and trust just built from that as well, 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:01.919 all the intros from that as well, Like that just 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:05.080 all helped out. Where a lot of the early sales 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:09.400 I didn't have much, but they just because of my background, 0:20:09.440 --> 0:20:11.440 because of the people I have associated with, we're able 0:20:11.480 --> 0:20:13.800 to give me a chance and you know, they're rewarded 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:18.240 and longan you know, from from your perspective, UM, when 0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:21.600 when a company doesn't have black talent at the levels 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:24.600 it should, UM, what are they What are they missing 0:20:24.640 --> 0:20:26.679 out on? Because we often talk about this from a 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:31.119 justice perspective like equality and you know, having diversity, But 0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:33.840 what are they actually missing out on? UM? And I'm 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:37.320 talking about even from financially. Are they missing out on 0:20:37.359 --> 0:20:42.159