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Speaker 1: I think the first thing is first, you can't you

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Speaker 1: can't get around this. You have to be good at

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Speaker 1: what you do, Like you have to invest in learning

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Speaker 1: what you're really good at and just doing that to

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Speaker 1: the best of your ability. Like that's the one thing

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Speaker 1: that that's the one impression that you're gonna make with

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Speaker 1: most people, they're gonna remember, did you say what you're

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Speaker 1: gonna do? You ran that event and it went really well.

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Speaker 1: You were, you know, on time. You know, you communicated, like,

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Speaker 1: just be a good whatever you want to be in

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Speaker 1: the world, Like, just be good at that. I'm Will

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Speaker 1: Lucas and this is Black Tech, Green Money. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: answer this you to some of the biggest names, some

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Speaker 1: of the brightest minds and brilliant ideas. If you're black,

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Speaker 1: in building or simply using tech to secution your back,

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Speaker 1: this podcast is for you. Jeron Petty is founder and

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Speaker 1: CEO at color Stack, the nonprofit police organization that helps

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Speaker 1: black and last the next computer science through this good

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Speaker 1: degreed and hired. When he was at Cornell, he worked

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Speaker 1: as an Internet Google and later turned them down for

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Speaker 1: a full time gig to start his own entrepreneurial journey.

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Speaker 1: We've asked so many conversations NY said White about the

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Speaker 1: pipeline for black talent in tech. I wanted to get

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Speaker 1: an idea of its current state. Torn who works on

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Speaker 1: this issue every day provides enough day. When you look

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Speaker 1: at the data, it is about thirty percent um. You know,

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Speaker 1: Black and Latin X computer science students or people make

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Speaker 1: up percent of the population of c S grads and

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Speaker 1: about ten percent of the industry. So there's drop offs

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Speaker 1: at each level where you can say not enough students

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Speaker 1: are graduating with CS degrees to begin with, but also

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Speaker 1: from the ones that are, they're not getting jobs in

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Speaker 1: software right then maybe going into it or becoming a

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Speaker 1: teacher or doing something that they weren't intending to do.

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Speaker 1: So we're trying to solve this like multilated problem of

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Speaker 1: like access to jobs, placement, retention, and then even attraction

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Speaker 1: to to bring that to right. And at the onset,

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Speaker 1: do you see enough black students interested in computer science?

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Speaker 1: So I studied CS myself, right, so I would c

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Speaker 1: S grad um And so when I was on campus,

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Speaker 1: the whole reason I started doing this work was because

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Speaker 1: I did see that, I did see the interest. But

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Speaker 1: what you would find is that even in that intro

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Speaker 1: course at a lot of these universities, the intro courses.

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Speaker 1: In the intro course, you know, they kind of gotten

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Speaker 1: so used to these people that come in and have

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Speaker 1: been learning how to study, how to code and program

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Speaker 1: from when they were in middle school. So the professors

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Speaker 1: I think have adapted for the wrong reasons and have

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Speaker 1: now expected so much prior knowledge, where black students, Brown

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Speaker 1: students are going into these intro courses and they feel behind,

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Speaker 1: and once they get a backgrade on that on that

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Speaker 1: first test or project, they're dropping the class, They're dropping

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Speaker 1: the nature. Yes, I was reading something a different eneview.

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Speaker 1: You were doing it. You were talking about your personal

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Speaker 1: mission that you found many of your peers you're in

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Speaker 1: their parts in these classes, weren't doing well in these

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Speaker 1: classes UM. And you talked about this as pervasive and

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Speaker 1: why is that pervasive? White many would say we just

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Speaker 1: aren't as talented or you know, we don't have the

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Speaker 1: proclivity from map and science. Well, in your research and

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Speaker 1: in your work, what have you found to be the

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Speaker 1: reasons why we're not UM ready for these classes? And

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Speaker 1: so many respects. Yeah, I think the first thing is

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Speaker 1: definitely you know what I just mentioned about prior knowledge,

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Speaker 1: like if you didn't go to a if you didn't

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Speaker 1: go to that private school, right that had cus one

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Speaker 1: on one as a freshman, Right. I think public education

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Speaker 1: is just catching up to see US education UM and

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Speaker 1: baking that into the curriculum for high schools. But if

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Speaker 1: you either didn't if you either didn't go to a

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Speaker 1: school UM that had the coursework or you had a

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Speaker 1: family friend that just was able to expose you to

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Speaker 1: that at a young age, you are coming in at

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Speaker 1: a college level feelings so behind. So there's that there's

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Speaker 1: that mental kind of barrier where you just are not

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Speaker 1: as comp it when you're going into your first intro

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Speaker 1: course and everybody else seems to know everything that's already

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Speaker 1: like from day one, you already discouraged, right. And then

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Speaker 1: I think some other areas within on the campus where

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Speaker 1: students are kind of sawing themselves short is, for example,

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Speaker 1: office hours. I was at t A for a lot

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Speaker 1: of the common CS courses at Cornell, and for whatever reason,

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Speaker 1: you know, a lot of students would wouldn't go to

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Speaker 1: office hours, right. Maybe it's because of the same issue

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Speaker 1: they're facing in classes where they feel like if they

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Speaker 1: go to office hours they're just gonna be you know,

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Speaker 1: reinformed that they're like behind or feel like they're dumb

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Speaker 1: for asking questions. Um, but it's a lot of those

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Speaker 1: small things where privileged kind of in network students already

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Speaker 1: know that like office hours, office hours are there, I

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Speaker 1: can go talk to the professor, I can use these resources.

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Speaker 1: But when you feel so behind and when you're not

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Speaker 1: kind of in these environments already, you just don't feel

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Speaker 1: like you can participate in the same way. With that response, then,

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Speaker 1: is waiting until we get to college too late to

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Speaker 1: make sure that we're ready for you know, actually getting

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Speaker 1: internships to be able to get jobs. I don't believe so.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think, you know, shout out to all

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Speaker 1: the Organs, COD Nation, UM America on Tech that are

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Speaker 1: doing that are doing work at the high school level,

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Speaker 1: Black Girls Code. I think it does. It is helpful

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Speaker 1: to start earlier and kind of get that exposure. But

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's too late. I think within when

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Speaker 1: you're on a campus that is already about discovery of

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Speaker 1: oneself and realigious learning and expanding your horizons. I do

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Speaker 1: think there is hope where there are students who are

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Speaker 1: still primed for pushing their their limits and kind of

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Speaker 1: expanding their horizons and trying something new. But it does

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Speaker 1: take intentional effort at the earliest stage, that first fresh

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Speaker 1: that freshman year, because once you the way the curriculum

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Speaker 1: and the major system is set up at a lot

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Speaker 1: of these schools is you know, if you try to

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Speaker 1: change your major once you're a sophomore junior, near impossible, right,

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Speaker 1: And so you really have to target and support those

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Speaker 1: students at the freshman level. And I'll even tell you

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Speaker 1: this from when I was at Cornell and we were

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Speaker 1: doing a lot of work um with underclassmen, we actually

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Speaker 1: started doing events that basically made other people who weren't C.

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Speaker 1: S Field jealous, right, like, oh, this is so cool,

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Speaker 1: Like you know, all my friends are doing this thing

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Speaker 1: and they know how to they know how Siri works,

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Speaker 1: these different social media work. And they were like, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'll do a CS minor, right, And that's happening at

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Speaker 1: the college. All these the students that were premed, right,

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Speaker 1: but now they're adding a mind a CS minor. So

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's too late at all. So as

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Speaker 1: an entrepreneur, when you're going through your you know, ideating

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Speaker 1: process of the company you're going to start, the organization

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Speaker 1: you're gonna start. What was the decision making process like

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Speaker 1: for you when you said, you know, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: target those college students instead of building an organization like

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Speaker 1: a Black Girl's Code that actually gets them younger, earlier

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Speaker 1: in the process, so that they by the time it

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Speaker 1: gets to college, they're more prepared. That's a good question.

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Speaker 1: I think this is the lesson that I have from us,

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Speaker 1: that I learned from myself but also trying to share

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Speaker 1: with other entrepreneurs, is that you know, you don't want

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Speaker 1: to think too much about what you're building. I think incremental,

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Speaker 1: like solving the problem in front of you incrementally, you

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Speaker 1: kind of just stumble upon a business. Right. That's what

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Speaker 1: happened for me my freshman year, I was I got

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Speaker 1: an internship at two Sigma, had a really great opportunity there.

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Speaker 1: My sophomore year, I came back from that internship feeling

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Speaker 1: very discouraged because there weren't other you know, black interns there,

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Speaker 1: or I noticed that my friends on campus didn't get

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Speaker 1: internships that summer, or weren't doing well in their classes.

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Speaker 1: Or were considering dropping. And so I said, okay, how

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Speaker 1: can I just solve that problem? How can I just

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Speaker 1: get my friends to come with me on all these

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Speaker 1: different opportunities you know that I have. And so that

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Speaker 1: was the problem that I solved, you know, in was

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Speaker 1: I no longer have enough time in the day to

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Speaker 1: mentor all these students. So how can I scale that

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Speaker 1: by creating a community of peer to peer support? Okay,

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Speaker 1: that was my problem I solved in en by building

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Speaker 1: the club. And then from twenty it's like, okay, well

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Speaker 1: how can I provide this value to more students on

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Speaker 1: other campuses? Right? And so it was just me incrementally

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Speaker 1: solving the problem that was right in front of me.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's how everybody should approach, you know,

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Speaker 1: start you know, starting a company, right. You don't have

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Speaker 1: to build a Google tomorrow. It's just what's the smallest

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Speaker 1: version of that problem you can solve today? And so

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Speaker 1: to the idea that you know, not everybody specifically, I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about black people and brown people who come into

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Speaker 1: college aren't ready for the math courses and the science courses,

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Speaker 1: but what are some other barriers that keep them from graduating?

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Speaker 1: And then you know, then allowing the opportunity to go

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Speaker 1: get internships and jobs by out of school. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think there's there's so many. I mean there's a whole

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Speaker 1: Pockets episode on those barriers. But I think a couple

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Speaker 1: that I even I know, I knew already as a

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Speaker 1: student myself, but then I learned from building color stack.

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Speaker 1: One it's just financial, right, Like some students just you know,

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Speaker 1: can't well drop you know, drop out of school or

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Speaker 1: or changed from a four year to a two year

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Speaker 1: or just be you know, indefinitely on leave of absence

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Speaker 1: just because of money. Right. So I think there's there's

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Speaker 1: definitely a conversation around the affordability of school, especially these

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Speaker 1: private institutions versus state schools, where sometimes just money that

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Speaker 1: that prevents someone from continuing um. The second thing I

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Speaker 1: think about a lot is no, no two CS degrees

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Speaker 1: are made equal, right, you know you would think that, yes,

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Speaker 1: from a Cornell or you know, a Kinesaw State or

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Speaker 1: Study of the University, like they all offer a computer science.

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Speaker 1: So no matter which one I pick, I should be good.

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Speaker 1: The truth of the matter is that academia has not

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Speaker 1: stayed on par with industry, and so a lot of

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Speaker 1: what it takes to become a software engineering industry is

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Speaker 1: taught out side of the classroom. And so there are

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Speaker 1: two kind of sub reasons why you know, students aren't

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Speaker 1: able to keep up. One is if you don't have

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Speaker 1: the time right outside of a class where you're a

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Speaker 1: commuter student or you're working another job to pay for school,

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Speaker 1: and you think that you know, you can just do

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Speaker 1: your classes and do homework and be done. You know

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Speaker 1: you're gonna be s sol when you find out that

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Speaker 1: in order to really get that job, you actually have

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Speaker 1: to do your homework, get a good grade, but then

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Speaker 1: also learn how to become a software engineer. And you know,

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Speaker 1: when you're in a privileged position of just being on

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Speaker 1: campus and just focusing on school and all that's taken

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Speaker 1: care of, you have that time, but many of these

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Speaker 1: students don't. And then then on the other hand, you

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Speaker 1: also don't have the curriculum that is tied and kind

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Speaker 1: of pegged two industry standards, where a school like an

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Speaker 1: M I T or Carnegie Mellon they have partnerships with

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Speaker 1: these companies to build curriculums. That's relevant. But if you're

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Speaker 1: going to a local a local school, smaller CS department,

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Speaker 1: you just just might be out of date. And so

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Speaker 1: it's interesting you say that because I've had these conversations

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Speaker 1: about you know, industry and university is not being able

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Speaker 1: to stay on part or college is not being able

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Speaker 1: to stay on par with what they're educating, and so

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Speaker 1: often it comes back to hiring the professors who can

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Speaker 1: teach it because they those professors can go to the

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Speaker 1: industry and make more money than they would, you know,

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Speaker 1: working in the university or a college. And so I

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Speaker 1: wonder what your idea is on how much self directed

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Speaker 1: education we need to do, even if you're in school

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Speaker 1: for your CS degree, how much of this outside of

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Speaker 1: that to your you did you did talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit about this, and you know, you've got a job

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Speaker 1: and you've got other things to pay for to pay

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Speaker 1: for that education. How much of that self directed effort

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Speaker 1: is required in order to get the look from a

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Speaker 1: big company or a startup that you may be interested in. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I think for the most part, when you

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Speaker 1: look at a big like, the bigger the company, the

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Speaker 1: more resources they have for learning and development. So as

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Speaker 1: long as you can prove that you can code, just

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Speaker 1: generally a lot of the bigger companies with more infrastructure

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Speaker 1: for learning and development. Like, if you do well in

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Speaker 1: your classes and you can demonstrate your basic knowledge of coding,

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Speaker 1: you'll be able to kind of secure at least beyond

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Speaker 1: their radar and be competitive for roles at bigger companies.

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Speaker 1: If you're talking about mid sized company and especially for

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Speaker 1: a startup, they're going to expect you to come and

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Speaker 1: hit the ground running. So it's gonna require you to,

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Speaker 1: you know, subscribe to certain newsletters so you know what

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Speaker 1: the newest tech tech is. Like JavaScript has a new

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Speaker 1: framework like every year, you need to know what those are. Right, Um,

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Speaker 1: you're going to have to know how to build an

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Speaker 1: iOS app if you want to work on a team

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Speaker 1: that their only product is a mobile app. Right, That's that.

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Speaker 1: And that's a perfect example of something that, like across

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Speaker 1: the board, is rarely taught in institutions. Right, Like you

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Speaker 1: might how to code and Python, you might learn about databases,

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Speaker 1: you might learn about machine learning, but even something like

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Speaker 1: iOS development isn't a thing that's typically taught in schools because,

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Speaker 1: like professors do research, and there was a much much

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Speaker 1: research done on like mobile app development. It's usually like

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Speaker 1: database efficiency or machine learning or like programming languages compilers,

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Speaker 1: so things like iOS development, which is ubiquitous in terms

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Speaker 1: of its impact. Everybody uses their phone and has apps.

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Speaker 1: You're actually not even learning that on average if you

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Speaker 1: get as from any school in the country. So you

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Speaker 1: have to go out and take a you to me

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Speaker 1: course or go on YouTube or get a book. You

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Speaker 1: just have to know that, and so some other things

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Speaker 1: that we talked about, you know, with that are prohibitive

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Speaker 1: for students to get the degree and actually actually graduating.

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Speaker 1: What are some of those things that actually keep you

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Speaker 1: from getting a job. So let's say you've graduated, You've

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Speaker 1: you went to a mid level university, midlevel college, you

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Speaker 1: didn't go to Cornell. There not everybody as smart as you.

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Speaker 1: But let's say you know, I went to a mid

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Speaker 1: level school, I got my degree, and I still can't

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Speaker 1: get a job at the company that I'm interested in.

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Speaker 1: What are some of those reasons why, other than racism?

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Speaker 1: Other than that, Yeah, let's start like that's already that's

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Speaker 1: the pre requisite, that's always there. Um, yeah, I think

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Speaker 1: I think, you know, there's there's some there's some challenges

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Speaker 1: definitely when it comes to like exposure to companies, So

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Speaker 1: for example, you know at certain schools, like at the

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Speaker 1: top level school, you're gonna have companies flying out to

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Speaker 1: be at that career. Fair right, every company that you

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Speaker 1: know will go out and make sure they're at Cornell,

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Speaker 1: at m I T whatever to get in front of

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Speaker 1: those students. What I see at the mid level schools

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Speaker 1: is that it's usually like local companies, and if you're

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Speaker 1: at a small school in Michigan, there's no local tech company, right,

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Speaker 1: So your your access and your exposure to employment is

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Speaker 1: usually at best I T. Right, at best, you're learning

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Speaker 1: about some org that has a back office I T

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Speaker 1: team that you might be able to work for, um,

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Speaker 1: you don't even know, you aren't even talking to her.

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Speaker 1: On the radar of like pure tech pure software companies

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Speaker 1: that are hiring software engineers, which is what you study

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Speaker 1: to be, right, So it's it's not like, let's not

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Speaker 1: confused that you study to be that, but the roles

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Speaker 1: and and and the opportunities that are available to you

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Speaker 1: are more aligned for I T and other things that

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Speaker 1: are not coding. So that's one of the ways that

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Speaker 1: caused that obviously bridges the gap. So no matter what

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Speaker 1: schools are going to, your career for if you're at

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Speaker 1: a small school in Michigan, Illinois wherever. I mean, we

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Speaker 1: partner with fifty top tech companies today where you can

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Speaker 1: immediately get on the radar. But that's like one of

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Speaker 1: the bigger, bigger reasons. You know, I'm glad you bring

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Speaker 1: up color Stack in the way that you have because

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Speaker 1: I'm interested in you know, colors Stack is a nonprofit

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Speaker 1: number one. UM, A lot of people will ask how

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Speaker 1: do you make money doing this? You know, because I

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Speaker 1: mean it's is this like purely altruistic or are you

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Speaker 1: attempting to like be like I want build a billion

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Speaker 1: dollarlet organizations? Why what's the motivation behind this? Yeah, for sure,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot to unpack there. So for me, you

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Speaker 1: know me personally, my my passion and who I am

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Speaker 1: at heart is I like to help people. I'm a

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Speaker 1: servant leader, like I just want to help people reach

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Speaker 1: their full potential. So, you know, the decision to start

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Speaker 1: color Stack was easy for me because I knew I'd

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Speaker 1: be happy every day. Like every time I student gets

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Speaker 1: a job, even if they just get a good, great

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Speaker 1: on their homework assignment, I am just fired up, like

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Speaker 1: let's go. Like I'm so happy for you. UM. And

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Speaker 1: it doesn't matter how big we get, I'll always kind

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Speaker 1: of have that local mindset of like, if we can

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Speaker 1: help one student, we're successful. UM. So that's just me.

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Speaker 1: That was my motivation personally. UM. Obviously, so I started

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Speaker 1: color Stack, this is beginning kind of peak of the

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Speaker 1: pandemic UM. And so for me, I mean I still

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Speaker 1: knew rationally speaking that like, I had to make this

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Speaker 1: work financially. I had an offer at Google that I

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Speaker 1: had accepted at the time actually so I was heading

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Speaker 1: to Google was to be to be an associate product

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Speaker 1: manager UM. And basically my my calculation internally was, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I know I'm not going to make the same amount

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Speaker 1: that I would make if I was a product manager

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Speaker 1: in industry, but I want to be paid kind of respect,

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Speaker 1: you know appropriately, um for my time and effort working

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Speaker 1: on clubs back full time. And so I first sought

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Speaker 1: out to raise enough money to do that. So my

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Speaker 1: first goal was raised enough money to do this full

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Speaker 1: time for at least couple of years. So we got

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Speaker 1: an incubation deal UM or Triple Byte, and that's that

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Speaker 1: was amazing. They were so supportive they got us off

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Speaker 1: the ground and today I mean we have a full

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Speaker 1: time team six two contractors, and we fund that mainly

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Speaker 1: through corporate sponsorships. So similar to you know, even after

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Speaker 1: tech how you know, you guys do an event, you

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Speaker 1: have all these sponsors they come in and kind of

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Speaker 1: try to attract talent. We're doing the same thing kind

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Speaker 1: of all year round through events and engagement with our

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Speaker 1: students and companies a budget for it. Like we're becoming

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Speaker 1: a line item in university recruiting budgets where they're like, hey,

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Speaker 1: all right, we're doing a new strategy. Fore we gotta

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Speaker 1: hit Apporte, we've gotta hit Grace Hopper, and we've got

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Speaker 1: a partner with color Stack. I love that. But when

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Speaker 1: you go to a company and you say, look, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna help you with your black talent, there's people who

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Speaker 1: came before you who said I can do that in

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Speaker 1: a hundred and nine coming after you who said I

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Speaker 1: can do that. Like what is what is it that

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Speaker 1: got them to believe that? You know Geran and what

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Speaker 1: he's doing with colors Stack, these are who you need

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Speaker 1: to be working with. Yeah, for sure. I mean I

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Speaker 1: think the first of a couple of early things that

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Speaker 1: I did strategically or I understanding do them intentionally, but

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Speaker 1: they happened that they were strategic. Um. The first thing

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Speaker 1: was be being a cs UH student myself. The transition

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Speaker 1: from this recruiter was trying to recruit me to for

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Speaker 1: their company, to hey, I'm not running a nonprofit that

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Speaker 1: you can benefit like that was such a transition because

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Speaker 1: you know, these these recruiters were like trying to literally

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Speaker 1: trying to hire me for the new new graph programs,

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Speaker 1: and you know, unfortunately said notes allow them to have

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Speaker 1: to pick one. But it was so easy to like

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Speaker 1: reach out to them because they're already excited about me

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Speaker 1: as a candidate, to be like, hey, well I'm doing

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Speaker 1: this other thing that's going to help you in ideally

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Speaker 1: find hundreds of more means out there in the world.

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Speaker 1: And they were like immediately on board because I had

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Speaker 1: built that trust and they already respected me for you know,

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Speaker 1: a different reason but related. So I had tons of

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Speaker 1: relationships like dual Lingo is a good example, Squarespace, some

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Speaker 1: of our silver partners, like those recruiters, I was in

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Speaker 1: their pipeline. They were trying to hire me, right, so

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Speaker 1: it's easy to kind of leverage those relationships and then

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Speaker 1: the second thing I connected with UM he's on my

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Speaker 1: board now wahab will Hobba Lobby. He's the founder of

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Speaker 1: a community called u r X, which is a community

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Speaker 1: of university recruiters and so we connected, we hit it off.

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Speaker 1: I asked him to join from my board and like

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Speaker 1: the brand, equity and trust just built from that as well,

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Speaker 1: all the intros from that as well, Like that just

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Speaker 1: all helped out. Where a lot of the early sales

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Speaker 1: I didn't have much, but they just because of my background,

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Speaker 1: because of the people I have associated with, we're able

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Speaker 1: to give me a chance and you know, they're rewarded

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Speaker 1: and longan you know, from from your perspective, UM, when

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Speaker 1: when a company doesn't have black talent at the levels

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Speaker 1: it should, UM, what are they What are they missing

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Speaker 1: out on? Because we often talk about this from a

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Speaker 1: justice perspective like equality and you know, having diversity, But

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Speaker 1: what are they actually missing out on? UM? And I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about even from financially. Are they missing out on

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Speaker 1: the revenue opportunity for having black candidates, black talent on

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Speaker 1: their teams? Yeah? For sure. I mean I think I

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Speaker 1: think you can you can be specific about black talent,

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Speaker 1: but This applies to all kind of intersectional identities out there.

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Speaker 1: I think the more homogeneous right a team is, the

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Speaker 1: more blind side you have, blind spots you have where

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Speaker 1: you know you're thinking the same way, right, you have

408
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,440
Speaker 1: very similar experiences. You just view you view the world

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Speaker 1: in a certain way, and you're not able to really

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Speaker 1: bring in new insight and get truly creative on new

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Speaker 1: product innovation or even just how your team should operate,

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Speaker 1: or even just lessons learned. I mean there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of you know, not every you know, black student is

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Speaker 1: necessarily low income, but there are lessons learned from being,

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Speaker 1: you know, in certain situations and growing up in certain

416
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Speaker 1: circumstances that could help when when companies have to cut

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Speaker 1: budget and figure out, you know, innovative ways to get

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Speaker 1: the profitability. But I'm sure if you're if you're a

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Speaker 1: bunch of people who never had to deal with never

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Speaker 1: to think about money, you probably don't know what you're

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Speaker 1: doing right now. You probably you probably are trying to

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Speaker 1: figure that out. And that's just an example, right, But

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Speaker 1: I think you know that I've even learned within um

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Speaker 1: the space of building a team that's primarily black, Like,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of the sectional value from the intersectionality

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Speaker 1: where people are bringing different to the table that I

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Speaker 1: just would never have thought of, and that leads to

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Speaker 1: better outcomes, better products, better solutions, and better returns. At

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Speaker 1: the end of the day. You know, we've had um

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Speaker 1: these stats that come out that talk about you know,

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00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:20,840
Speaker 1: ten percent of Google's national workforce is black or Latin

432
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 1: X and or you know, talk about Apple, you know

433
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,159
Speaker 1: where I think it's like nearly half of their global

434
00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,919
Speaker 1: team is all white people, right, And you know, I

435
00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,960
Speaker 1: have the perspective that you know, I'm not interested in

436
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,159
Speaker 1: asking for us he did the table. That's just me.

437
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 1: I'm interested in building my own tables. And so I

438
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 1: wonder what your take is on these not necessarily competing approaches,

439
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,360
Speaker 1: But what is your take on You're like, look, we're

440
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 1: going to continue to beat down the door of Google,

441
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:52,320
Speaker 1: say you need to be hiring us versus we're gonna

442
00:22:52,359 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 1: go build the next Google. Yeah. No, for sure, I'm

443
00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,399
Speaker 1: so happy you wrote this up because that might have

444
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 1: the same thesis, Like we partner a companys and you know,

445
00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:04,200
Speaker 1: we were happy to to to help these students get jobs.

446
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,680
Speaker 1: But my ultimate mission and our ultimate mission at color

447
00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 1: Stag is to to to give these students agency. I

448
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:13,919
Speaker 1: had a really close friend, a mentee that became a

449
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 1: close friend of mine, and she a black woman from

450
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 1: from New York. And she um had a terrible experience, uh,

451
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:22,399
Speaker 1: interning at at Google with me, right, we wait to

452
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 1: take walks like almost every day kind of she was

453
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,679
Speaker 1: crying like there's a really bad experience. Right, And you

454
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:30,640
Speaker 1: know I could have went to you know, the manager

455
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:32,400
Speaker 1: or talk to someone in the team be like, hey,

456
00:23:32,480 --> 00:23:34,359
Speaker 1: you guy should do this differently, or here's the impact

457
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: of this, and blah blah blah. But I focused more

458
00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,560
Speaker 1: on just investing in her. The next summer, she worked

459
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: at a company, a startup that was building a woman

460
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 1: coaching an empowerment platform, and obviously the team was all women,

461
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 1: and she had the best time of her life. And

462
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,479
Speaker 1: now she's over there working at Figma, having a great career,

463
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: you know, careers, early career experience. And so for me,

464
00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 1: it's all about agency, Like I just want to help

465
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,800
Speaker 1: these students, right, want them to become the strongest engineers

466
00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:05,400
Speaker 1: in the world so that they can chart their own path. Right,

467
00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,680
Speaker 1: Because when you to your point, if we just focused

468
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 1: on like trying to make these companies less biased, less racist,

469
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 1: less whatever. That's just gonna be endless. That's that's how

470
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 1: we got to the point where we're still talking about

471
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,399
Speaker 1: this ten, fifteen, twenty years later. I'm not focused on

472
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 1: that they can do their thing. I'm trying to help

473
00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:25,600
Speaker 1: thesetems just become the best. I love that. And one

474
00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,200
Speaker 1: of the conversations that we were talking about an afro

475
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,760
Speaker 1: tech was, you know, we often talk about getting black

476
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,160
Speaker 1: people into tech, but it's another thing to keep us

477
00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,880
Speaker 1: in tech because we don't necessarily have ecosystem everywhere, which

478
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,160
Speaker 1: is why colors tech is important, which is why afro

479
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,919
Speaker 1: tech is important. What are some interesting ways you found

480
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: to help those who might be in the ecosystem but

481
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,679
Speaker 1: might be disengaged from the ecosystem so we don't lose

482
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: talent that you know, could have opportunity here but they

483
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:55,280
Speaker 1: don't see themselves. Yeah, for sure. I mean there was

484
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 1: some study done that said something like one of there's

485
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 1: like a predict year of retention that has to do

486
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,639
Speaker 1: with like comedy friends you make in the workplace, Like

487
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,080
Speaker 1: if you don't make like two or three, then you're

488
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,480
Speaker 1: very likely to leave that company. And I think, you know,

489
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 1: that applies here as well, where at the very least

490
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,800
Speaker 1: you need community, which is a thing that Avrotec does,

491
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 1: Like you said, it is a thing that colors Stack does.

492
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:20,600
Speaker 1: All these events and all these ways for you to

493
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,040
Speaker 1: connect with other folks that may not be at your company,

494
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 1: because we know what the numbers look like, but at

495
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,080
Speaker 1: least you notice someone in your same role in the industry,

496
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 1: and that leads to further retention because you at least

497
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 1: have that support system. Right. So, like, that's one thing

498
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: that I think is important, and I think people need

499
00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,399
Speaker 1: to know about that. Even if your company may not

500
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: be the most ideal situation and you can't build community,

501
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,040
Speaker 1: at least you can do that across different companies through

502
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: you know, company agnostic communities. And I think the other

503
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: thing that is missing a lot is understanding what it

504
00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:57,679
Speaker 1: takes to progress. I think what happens a lot of

505
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: a lot of recent RADS and early CREPT professionals stay

506
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: in that entry level role, that junior role for too long,

507
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,919
Speaker 1: and one is the fault of the manager. But like

508
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: we just talked about, I'm not trying to convince a

509
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 1: manager be less biased and whatever. Let's just focus on

510
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:19,000
Speaker 1: really educating our June from our community, people who are

511
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,520
Speaker 1: in that junior level, Like, here's what it really takes

512
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: to to become that level two, level three, that senior level,

513
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 1: that manager level. Like what what's the next step? Right?

514
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: I think the breaking into the industry and that content

515
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,199
Speaker 1: is great, but I really want to see over the

516
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 1: next five years more content and support around. Once you

517
00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: get there, how do you grow? How do you continue

518
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,359
Speaker 1: to progress? Right? Yeah? Yeah, I'm still thinking about how

519
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: you got these deals versus the people who came before

520
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:50,159
Speaker 1: you and the people who were in mine after you.

521
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:52,920
Speaker 1: And so because a lot of it has to come

522
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:55,359
Speaker 1: down to you, you know, like what did you learn

523
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: through your journey, whether it was in school or just upbringing,

524
00:26:59,359 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: about how to make yourself valuable while you're still in school,

525
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: Like what kind of things make you more attractive as

526
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:10,880
Speaker 1: a person as a professional, even that aside from turning

527
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:12,879
Speaker 1: down a role at Google and as I can go

528
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 1: into cornell Um and getting accepting the cornell and getting

529
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 1: getting a job offered from Google, Like what aside from

530
00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,919
Speaker 1: those things, like what would you admonish other students to

531
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: do to make themselves more not just hirable, um, but

532
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: attractive as partners to these organizations. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

533
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: And I think the first thing is first, you can't

534
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: you can't get around this. You have to be good

535
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 1: at what you do, like if you have to invest

536
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 1: in learning what you're really good at and just doing

537
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 1: that to the best of your ability. Like that's the

538
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: one thing that you know, people are gonna that's the

539
00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 1: one impression that you're gonna make With most people, they're

540
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: gonna remember, like, you know, did you say what you're

541
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: gonna do? You ran that of and it went really well.

542
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: You were, you know, on time. You know, you communicate,

543
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 1: like just be a good whatever you want to be

544
00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,680
Speaker 1: in the world, Like, just be good at that, right.

545
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 1: I think that's where I started. I started Cornell by

546
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 1: just trying to be the best CS student I can be.

547
00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: The second level is about kind of networking. I hate

548
00:28:20,080 --> 00:28:22,240
Speaker 1: to say networking because sometimes it's just like people think

549
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,320
Speaker 1: it's like super professional and boring and like proper, but

550
00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 1: it's really just putting yourself out there. Within my sophomore year,

551
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 1: I started to like post on, LinkedIn and even little

552
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: things like oh I just watched like Panther. I just really,

553
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,919
Speaker 1: you know, love the representation it was a little article

554
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: kind of just a couple of words. But I started

555
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 1: to build this brand on social media um based on

556
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:44,959
Speaker 1: my interests and my accolades that people you know, started

557
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 1: to recognize and and and understand about me and build

558
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: that personal brands that when they think of certain opportunities,

559
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: they were able to think of me. Right. And so

560
00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: once you already build that skill set right that nobody

561
00:28:56,840 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: can debate, you start putting yourself out there so that

562
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: people the right person can find you see that and

563
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 1: and and promote, you know, refer you to an opportunity

564
00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 1: or select you for an opportunity. So I think it's

565
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: like those are the two things that I would say,

566
00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: for the most part, that you gotta do. And I

567
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: think the last thing is like once you get the opportunity,

568
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,400
Speaker 1: it's just like doing what you say you're gonna do,

569
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: following up and just seeing things through. I think the

570
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 1: biggest thing that students aren't doing right now. We deal

571
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: with this a lot of color stack. It's just they

572
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: don't close. They will apply to this thing that we have.

573
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,680
Speaker 1: They'll show up to the first event, but then three

574
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 1: weeks later it's like, oh, hey, like I'm there either

575
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: ghosting us or like oh hey, I got busy or whatever,

576
00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:42,840
Speaker 1: and they're not kind of following through like just close

577
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:45,560
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, It's it's interesting you started that off

578
00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: talking about you know, actually doing what you said you're

579
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: gonna do and um and being good at what you

580
00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 1: actually are you know, supposed to be doing, because I

581
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:57,080
Speaker 1: have had I had this conversation um with several different

582
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 1: people in this podcast about you know, it's sometimes it

583
00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: can be a folk pod to walk into a job

584
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: too early and talking about diversity and equity and include

585
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: like you need to hire more of us and you

586
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:09,760
Speaker 1: just got hired last week, bro, Like but we and

587
00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: we hired you to code and now now you've got

588
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: your black panther shirt on. And I mean, you know,

589
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 1: it comes like come on, like, actually be good at

590
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:21,280
Speaker 1: the job. And then as you build that credibility, then

591
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,240
Speaker 1: you can start speaking up on certain things. So I

592
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: wonder there and it's a balance there and and and

593
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,840
Speaker 1: I'm sensitive to the balance of like when you see injustice,

594
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 1: obviously you've got to you've gotta address things appropriately. But

595
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: I'm about to think about the ways that we want

596
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 1: to be you know, brother human Johnson. And that's no

597
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: shade on him so early in the journey of a

598
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: professional career, when you when you haven't proven yourself to

599
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 1: be good at the role that they hired you for,

600
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,720
Speaker 1: you speak on that. Yeah, it's tough. Like you said,

601
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: there's a balance, right, But I think and I want

602
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:56,479
Speaker 1: to preface that also by saying purposes also by saying, like,

603
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: you know, we we know that the current circumstances aren't right.

604
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:06,640
Speaker 1: Like we we we can't change today what happened right

605
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,360
Speaker 1: over the past hundreds of years. We are here today

606
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: and there are certain circumstances. So these are just ways

607
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: that we can kind of get around that. But we know,

608
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,959
Speaker 1: like I battle, I have these conversations with students all

609
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 1: the time where it's like, do you want to be

610
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: that pioneer. I don't think you have to be, and

611
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:24,080
Speaker 1: I don't think you deserve to be, but someone needs

612
00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: to be the first black employee at a certain company

613
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 1: if that company is going to increase and kind of

614
00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: be more diverse over time. And so to your point,

615
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: I think, you know, being good at what you do

616
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,280
Speaker 1: the best as best you can kind of just reduces

617
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:46,800
Speaker 1: any evidence, right, any unsaid or kind of flaky evidence.

618
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 1: Um for not commoning you, letting you go like all

619
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,640
Speaker 1: these different things, and that still might happen just because

620
00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 1: of racism and biased But the best thing that you

621
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: can do for your own agency in your career is

622
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 1: just do the work right, because at the end the day,

623
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: as much as all this other social stuff is present,

624
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: companies want to be profitable, do better, do better work

625
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 1: for their customers, make great experiences, and reward their investors.

626
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,760
Speaker 1: So if you can just take care of that, right,

627
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: if you can just write that code, push that product,

628
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:20,840
Speaker 1: do the things, you have so much more agency to

629
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: to to add anything on top of that, to start

630
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: adding new initiatives because of that respect that you have

631
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: that you have kind of solidified right now. I love that. Um.

632
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 1: I was reading the interview another interview you were talking about.

633
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 1: I'm in a paraphrase a statement that you had here,

634
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:39,360
Speaker 1: and it says, you know, being a computer science major

635
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: actually forces you to think about things in the same

636
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: way an entrepreneur thinks about things. If you remember saying that,

637
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:52,680
Speaker 1: can you speak on that and elaborate? Yeah? I think so.

638
00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: When I'll start learning how to how to code, and

639
00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 1: front of me, who who hasn't learned how to code.

640
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: It really you're you're trying to held the computer what

641
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,520
Speaker 1: to do at the end of the day. Right, You're

642
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,080
Speaker 1: using this coding language which boils down into language that

643
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: the machine that you're coding on can understand to perform

644
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:17,280
Speaker 1: some level of computation or render website or whatever the

645
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: case may be. Right, And what I started to learn

646
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Speaker 1: early on is that, like you have to be so

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Speaker 1: detailed to write, like you have to think about so

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Speaker 1: many different cases, if else, for loops, like all these

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Speaker 1: different things that boiled down to to to solve some

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Speaker 1: basic problem like adding two numbers. Like if you've ever

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Speaker 1: written code, you know that adding two numbers isn't like

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Speaker 1: some super trivial things like you actually have to think

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Speaker 1: about a lot of like um edge cases and and

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Speaker 1: and and math that you didn't think about before. And

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Speaker 1: so I remember on this part, I think it might

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Speaker 1: have been the same podcast. I would tell them explain

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Speaker 1: to me how you would how you would you know

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00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: how to make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. And

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Speaker 1: they realized how many ups they take for granted. And

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Speaker 1: I was like, well, as a business leader, right, as

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Speaker 1: a founder, if you want to go and build a

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Speaker 1: nonprofit that supports Black and Latin ext computer science students.

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Speaker 1: And you tell me, and I ask you how you're

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Speaker 1: gonna do that, and you tell me, Oh, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: do events and we're gonna run a slack and we're

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00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:21,280
Speaker 1: gonna get sponsors. Well, okay, let's break that down into

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00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,239
Speaker 1: how you're gonna do those individual things. You need to

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00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 1: break those things down, need to continue to do that.

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Speaker 1: And it just reminded me so much of like what

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Speaker 1: I learned when I wrote code. So when I come

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00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,959
Speaker 1: in and think about how to build a company, I'm

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00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 1: starting from the basis of like I've already learned and

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00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,000
Speaker 1: been trained on how to be so detailed in my

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Speaker 1: solutions that I'm applying that here in the same in

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00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 1: the same use case of like starting company, where I'm

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00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: thinking about each step, each edge case, boiling it all

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Speaker 1: down to it's fundamentally uh kind of basic parts of

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Speaker 1: the solution. Black Tech, Green Money and Production to Blackvity

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Speaker 1: Afro Tech on the Black Effect podcast Network and Night

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Speaker 1: Hired Media is produced by Morgan Dubon and me Well Lucas,

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00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 1: with additional production support by Sarah Rogan and Rose McLucas.

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Speaker 1: Special thank you to Michael Davis. That's a serrano. Learned

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Speaker 1: more about my guests and other tech the trucks that

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Speaker 1: innovators to afro tech dot com. Join your black tech,

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00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: green money, shire us with somebody gonna get your money.

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Speaker 1: Peace and love,