WEBVTT - Ep. 70: Holt Collier - Texas Cowboy, Gunfights & Market Bear Hunting, Part 2 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:07.240 M should you see that pony or beyond in that 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.959 corras and if you can ride that pony, then we'll 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:12.600 give you a job. And by that time all ottle 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:15.720 cowboards around. They heard what the strow balls shit, and 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:19.760 they turned around snickering and laughing. Ain't nobody had been 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:22.040 able to ride that horse? As to one horse, and 0:00:22.040 --> 0:00:25.400 the whole remutal that nobody could ride to hold shut 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:29.520 I riding on this episode of the bear Grease podcast 0:00:29.640 --> 0:00:32.720 were on part two and our Holt call your series 0:00:33.159 --> 0:00:35.640 and we're looking into the second section of his life 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:39.360 from the age of twenty to his mid sixties, which 0:00:39.400 --> 0:00:44.440 were defined by gunfights, cowboy in and bear hunting. Holt 0:00:44.640 --> 0:00:48.680 was a former slave turned Confederate soldier. He was acquitted 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:51.600 of the murder of the white Man after the Civil War, 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:53.920 and he made a lot of money as a market 0:00:53.920 --> 0:00:57.800 bear hunter in the primeval swamps of Mississippi. Holt was 0:00:57.880 --> 0:01:02.880 buddies with presidents, governors, and outlaws. He became an accomplished 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:06.520 cowboy in Texas while running from the vigilante justice of 0:01:06.560 --> 0:01:09.800 those that wanted him hung. Holt was married three times. 0:01:09.840 --> 0:01:13.280 He was a deputy sheriff. His best dog was named Mandy, 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.440 and he had a baseball team named after him, and 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:20.959 he guided President Teddy Roosevelt on the hunt that created 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:24.240 the global icon of the Teddy Bear. We'll talk about 0:01:24.280 --> 0:01:28.559 that on episode three. Holt Collier lived an incredible life. 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:32.440 You wouldn't believe Holt story if it wasn't the truth. 0:01:32.840 --> 0:01:37.039 He's surrounded by controversy and irony, but one thing is 0:01:37.080 --> 0:01:41.240 for certain. He was an extraordinary and brilliant man and 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:45.520 his legacy deserves to sit with the kings of American culture. 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:49.240 We're in search of learning who this man was. So 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:52.440 I really doubt you're gonna want to miss this one, 0:01:52.920 --> 0:01:55.520 because after about fifteen point a minute, Hope come walking 0:01:56.720 --> 0:02:00.320 general as he can be pretty good hard now. Mh. 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:10.760 My name is Clay Nukelem, and this is the Bear 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:15.800 Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.440 for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:23.720 story of Americans who lived their lives close to the land. 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:29.920 Presented by f HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.519 and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:43.200 the places we explore. When I started my research, there 0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:46.600 was this legend of whole career. So I started my 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:49.600 book as a novel, and I wrote, I don't wrote 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.359 twelve thirteen chapters, work on it for like a year 0:02:52.360 --> 0:02:54.320 and a half. That's a year and a half work, 0:02:54.680 --> 0:02:57.560 and I've got a good plot line. I got to saying, going, 0:02:57.639 --> 0:02:59.239 you know, I think I've got a good book going 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:02.160 in and I realized, you know, all that SAIDs it's 0:03:02.160 --> 0:03:05.080 a novel and it's based on fact, but it's fiction. 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:08.280 I woke up one morning I realized all I'm doing 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:12.240 is adding to the legend by writing a historical fictional 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:17.240 whole carrier, because nobody's gonna believe this. Nobody's gonna believe 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:19.680 when I'm right here, because it was it was true, 0:03:19.919 --> 0:03:23.079 but it's all true. But I was given dialogue that 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.360 kind of thing, and so I took that to manuscript 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:30.240 and I threw in the trash. I'm gonna write historical fact. 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.440 So I wanted to write a book that people would 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.960 read and there would be no question that this man existed. 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:43.760 These life events that he experienced. It happened the life 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:48.360 of Holt Collier is unbelievable. Fiction couldn't rival the facts, 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:52.200 and author Minor Ferris Buchanan of Jackson, Mississippi in the 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:57.119 early nineteen nineties, realized that his book titled Holt Collier 0:03:57.240 --> 0:04:00.640 was published in two thousand two, and after teen years 0:04:00.640 --> 0:04:03.880 of research before it was published, it impacted a lot 0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.080 of people. I've heard about the whole call you all 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:12.920 my life. Never knew that much about him until Miner's 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:15.640 book came out. There was a black gentleman in town 0:04:15.720 --> 0:04:18.839 named John Johnson. John Johnson was an eighty year old 0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:21.000 black man. He's one of the best friends I've ever had. 0:04:21.120 --> 0:04:24.279 He was I shan't save my major domo, but he was. 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:27.920 We I never went anywhere without John Johnson. And John 0:04:27.960 --> 0:04:31.359 Johnson would tell stories about the old days and growing 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.640 up in Graham, and he knew Whole Collier and yeah, 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:36.719 I was forty years old and he was eighty something 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.560 years old. Oh wow. And he ended up being the 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:43.039 best man in my wedding. And John knew Hole Callier 0:04:43.080 --> 0:04:46.440 and remembered Whole Collier seeing him and uh, seeing the 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:49.200 little kids coming by then and crawling up, getting up 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:52.400 on his front porch, want him to tell stories. And 0:04:52.480 --> 0:04:54.840 Hold would tell him go down to the tour and 0:04:54.839 --> 0:04:57.680 get him an armed knee high and plug it back 0:04:57.720 --> 0:04:59.840 on and they bring it back then he got telling. 0:05:01.200 --> 0:05:03.640 So that was those worth some of the things that 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:07.359 I knew and had heard about Whold Caller that was 0:05:07.440 --> 0:05:11.760 Hankberg dying and before Miner's research, holtz story was en 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:15.400 route to be lost. But after his five year old 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:17.800 daughter quizzed him about the origin of the teddy Bear, 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:20.560 he began a research project that would define more than 0:05:20.600 --> 0:05:23.359 a decade of his life. And luckily some of the 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:26.719 people who actually knew hold were still in the Greenville area. 0:05:27.480 --> 0:05:31.640 Minor captured the last remaining firsthand knowledge of Holt like 0:05:31.680 --> 0:05:35.240 a kid scooping tadpoles out of a drying mud hole 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:38.520 an episode one of this series. We made it through 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:41.320 the first twenty years of Holt Collier's life, just to 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:44.920 get you caught up and refreshed. Here's the stuff we've learned. 0:05:45.360 --> 0:05:48.839 Holt was a black man born enslaved to the Hinz 0:05:48.920 --> 0:05:52.320 family in Mississippi in eighteen forty six. The Hinds were 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:56.640 politically powerful and wealthy, and Holt worked directly for how 0:05:56.800 --> 0:06:00.680 Hinz as his hustler, taking care of horses, hounds, and 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:04.279 hunting for the plantation. Holt began to set himself apart 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.320 by killing his first bear when he was only ten 0:06:06.400 --> 0:06:10.440 years old. A few years later, boldly rejecting the wishes 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:14.640 of hal Hin's, Holt runs away to join the Confederate 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.040 Army at the age of fourteen and becomes an accomplished 0:06:18.080 --> 0:06:22.559 soldier in the ninth Texas Cavalry, a roving horseback unit 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:28.120 involved in guerrilla warfare, covert raids, and dispensing backwoods justice 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:33.200 to Union sympathizers. Holt's involvement in the Ninth Texas branded 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:36.880 his life, evidenced by his habit of brandishing firearms and 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:39.800 wearing his Confederate hat with the bill flipped up most 0:06:39.839 --> 0:06:43.520 of his life. The idea of a black man fighting 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:47.400 in the Confederate Army is a complicated story, and on 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:51.520 part one Jonathan Wilkins introduced us to the idea that 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:56.720 holtz situation was very complex and that race relations dominated 0:06:56.920 --> 0:07:01.200 his life, though he navigated them seemingly with ease. But 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:05.720 if you remember, things got wild when Holt kept shooting folks. 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:08.800 After the war, Holt shot a white man in defense 0:07:08.800 --> 0:07:12.960 of his former slave owner, Howel Hinz, which sounds wild, 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:17.280 but he got off without any charges pressed. Secondly, he 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:21.480 was accused, tried, and acquitted in a military tribunal for 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:25.160 the murder of Captain James A. King, a Union officer 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.720 and member of the Freedman's Bureau who was stationed in 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:33.400 the South after the war. This is almost unbelievable based 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:37.240 upon what we know about the time period. However, this 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:41.640 is where the magic of holtz life, evidenced in uncountable ways, 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:47.120 is seen so strongly. Holt was special and engendered the 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:51.560 trust of those around him, overwriting the dominating racial norms 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:55.080 of the time. Holt was represented in his trial by 0:07:55.080 --> 0:08:01.080 the best lawyer in Mississippi, the Gray Eagle, William Alexander Percy, 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:05.360 the first Now we're in a new sector of Holt's 0:08:05.440 --> 0:08:08.760 long life. He lived to be ninety years old, and 0:08:08.800 --> 0:08:12.360 wouldn't you know it, it starts off with some more killing. 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:18.840 Here's minor Ferris Buchanan with a wild story. We're skipping 0:08:19.160 --> 0:08:24.160 one major stories about hold and that is the gunfight 0:08:24.240 --> 0:08:31.160 at Washburn's. Ferry fellow name Sage, who's from originally from Waterford, Mississippi, 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:33.680 which is close to wround from. He was a kind 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:37.559 of a renegade deputy share from over in Louisiana. It 0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:41.559 killed a couple of prominent young men in their early twenties, 0:08:42.200 --> 0:08:45.720 and he crossed the river, came over into the Mississippi 0:08:45.760 --> 0:08:49.280 Delta to hide out. And as Holts going out to 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.000 start his season, he's leaving Greenville, he's loaded up his 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:55.440 provisions in his wagon, and the sheriff comes to him 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:58.160 and tells him hold his fellows out. Of all sage 0:08:58.320 --> 0:09:02.320 from Louisiana, we think hiding out, keeping out for him, 0:09:02.559 --> 0:09:05.120 it's another He's a white man, Holt, who served as 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:08.640 a deputy sheriff before, who's been who because they knew 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:10.920 him to be very dependable in a good shot. He 0:09:10.960 --> 0:09:14.600 takes that seriously. And as he's going into the wilderness, 0:09:14.640 --> 0:09:17.640 as a river up there called the boat Fly. Sometimes 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.640 it's low, sometimes it's high, depending on the weather. But 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.679 right there on his Washburn store, and he has he 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:27.200 has a ferry service, so it's called Washburn's Ferry. As 0:09:27.280 --> 0:09:30.240 Holt rides up there in his wagon with his mule, 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.640 he sees the man that fits the description of this 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:37.640 sage character and on his horse and there's Washburn standing 0:09:37.640 --> 0:09:42.400 there talking to him. Now Holt realizes this is sage 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:44.640 and he's got to come up with a plan. They 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:46.400 can't just walk up to him with a gun drawn. 0:09:47.320 --> 0:09:50.760 He acts kind of friendly, and Washburn it makes the introductions, 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:53.439 and he says, that's a fine looking Winchester rifle. You 0:09:53.520 --> 0:09:55.800 got there? Your mind? If I look at it. His 0:09:55.960 --> 0:09:59.680 purpose is to disarm this fellow, say It says, sure, 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.800 look at it, and he hands him the rifle voluntarily, 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:06.079 and Hope puts the rifle down, leanings it up against 0:10:06.080 --> 0:10:11.320 the porch and immediately says you're under rest. And Washburn 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:14.840 standing on the porch. They're all pretty close together, and 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:18.160 even though Washburn knows hold, I can only assume it's 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:21.440 two white men one black man. And Washburn picks up 0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:24.360 that rifle and passes it over to sayge she's on 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:27.760 the horse, and Sage immediately comes down to aim the 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:31.520 gun at swing, swings it on Hold, puts the muzzle 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:34.520 on him, and the barrel of the gun hits that 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:36.800 horse right between the ears, and if you know anything 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.920 about horses, that's a very sensitive spot. And the horse 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.720 rears up just enough for Hope to pull his revolver 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:49.480 and literally gunfight. Hope shoots the guy right through the chest. 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:53.640 The man falls dead on his back and cocked rifle 0:10:53.800 --> 0:10:57.760 in his hand, and there's a corner's inquest. That's as 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:00.240 far as it goes. I'm sure the sheriff aim and 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:03.640 test five coroner's in quest, and Hope was exonerated and 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.479 found not guilty. That he never even went to court 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:08.240 heat heat well, the only court he went to was 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:11.319 a court what's called the coroner's in quest. The corner 0:11:11.600 --> 0:11:15.839 makes the initial determination whether it's a homicide, justifible or otherwise. 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:18.960 And he said self defense. You know, we don't have 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:21.199 that report, but I know it was a corner's inquest. 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:24.480 And holding on back in the woods and continued hunting. 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:27.439 And then that article that's eighteen eighty one. Now that 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:30.840 are that's after reconstruction. We no longer have Union soldiers 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:33.720 down anymore. And that killing of a white man by 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:37.120 a black man in Greenville, Mississippi, out and out and 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:40.400 still the wilderness raised the ire of a lot of 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:44.120 people enough that it made the newspaper in Jackson, Mississippi, 0:11:44.440 --> 0:11:47.080 and the headline was white man killed by a black man. 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:52.120 That's a fine looking Winchester rifle, Holt said, before he 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:56.679 took the gun and drew his pistol. That's nervy. The 0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.480 gunfight at Washburn's ferry took place in eighteen eighty one, 0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.520 and it is the third man that Holt has shot 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:07.360 or allegedly shot since the Civil War ended. And we 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:11.079 just learned another new thing. Holt was a deputy sheriff 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:14.840 in Mississippi for a while. But now we're gonna go 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:17.640 back to eighteen sixty six, to where we left off. 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:21.400 After the trial in Vicksburg, when Holt was acquitted of 0:12:21.440 --> 0:12:25.320 the murder of Captain James A. King, holtz friends have 0:12:25.480 --> 0:12:29.160 some advice for him if he wants to live. They 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:32.079 had a meeting right there on the courthouse grounds where 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:37.040 William Alexander Percy and Howell Heinz and other prominent people 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:40.920 from Greenville, Mississippi, said, Holt, if you come back to Greenville, 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:45.319 we cannot protect you because James A. King was, according 0:12:45.360 --> 0:12:47.840 to everything I've been able to find, was much beloved 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:51.880 by his men we're talking about. And there's a garrison 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:56.880 of several hundred Union soldiers there, and if Holt goes 0:12:56.920 --> 0:13:00.439 back to Greenville, he's gonna be strung up. So as 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.199 luck would have at, some of the Texas boys that 0:13:03.360 --> 0:13:06.400 hold had ridden with were still around. They hadn't gone 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:09.079 back to Texas yet, and they were there and they said, well, Holt, 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:11.600 I'm on out to Texas with us. You can ride 0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:14.439 with us and and we'll give you a job. You're 0:13:14.480 --> 0:13:18.080 good with horses, And so that's what he did. What 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:23.040 good American story doesn't mid plot have the good guy 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:27.920 slash outlaw flee into Texas. No way, Minor could have 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:32.960 made a flashy fiction story better than the truth. Here's 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:36.440 hankberd dying telling how Holt got his first job on 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.240 a Texas ranch. Did I mentioned in the bullet points 0:13:40.240 --> 0:13:42.480 about holtz life in the first episode that he became 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:47.200 an accomplished Texas cowboy. No? I didn't, but he did. 0:13:51.040 --> 0:13:54.079 And when Holt got back to Greenville, they on him. 0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.239 He was acquitted, but they were gonna get him anyway. 0:13:57.360 --> 0:13:59.680 And word got to whole ship, Hold, you need to 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:01.240 just get out of here for a little while. Let 0:14:01.840 --> 0:14:05.040 let's smoke clear, you know. So Hold decided to go 0:14:05.120 --> 0:14:07.720 to Texas where his partners were. So he gets out 0:14:07.800 --> 0:14:11.400 yond and he goes and sees saw ross Uh and 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:13.960 Saul says, yeah, we find something for you to do 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:15.520 out here, and so he sent him out in the 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:19.440 Plains to a coupboard crew. I r said, they'll they'll 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:22.640 probably give you a job, and holds a little wiry, 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.680 not a big book kind of guy. So he comes 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.160 out there, and none of these guys in this outfit, 0:14:28.280 --> 0:14:30.000 they don't know they don't know it. Well, it's a 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:32.840 bunch of these old cowboys out then probably all I'm white. Now, 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:35.000 there were a lot of black cowboards out that time, 0:14:35.080 --> 0:14:37.400 so I can't say that there weren't any in that crew. 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:39.880 So he goes out there and see the straw balls 0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:43.680 and said, I'd like to have jobs, says so, and 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:46.600 you know anything about cattle and horses, he's a yess, 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.840 I know a little bit about horses and all he says, well, 0:14:50.880 --> 0:14:53.040 I tell you what we'll do. Said, you see that 0:14:53.080 --> 0:14:55.120 pony over beyond there in that carras, said if you 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:58.040 can ride that pony, that we'll give you a job. 0:14:58.800 --> 0:15:01.920 And by that time, all those cowboys around they heard 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.920 what the strow balls said, and they turned around snickering 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.800 and laughing. Ain't ain't nobody had been able to ride 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:11.360 that horse. That's the one horse and the whole remutal 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:14.240 that nobody could ride. So hold said, I ain't riding, 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:16.760 he said, saddle him up. So they caught the horse 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:18.760 and they got the saddle on him and got him 0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:22.360 sensed up tighten. This horse is just going crazy. So 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:25.480 the next thing Holks I asked for is a pair 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:29.960 of six shooters loaded. The rest of the cowboys jumped 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:32.920 behind trees. They don't know where he's going with us. 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:35.760 They have no idea where he's going with this. Holding 0:15:35.760 --> 0:15:39.360 new because holding you by the horses. So they gave 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:42.320 him the gruns and he strapped them on and he 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.280 grabbed that horse's reins and the first thing he did 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:48.480 was run those reins around that saddle horn and all 0:15:48.560 --> 0:15:51.680 being pulled that horse. And if you know anything about horses, 0:15:51.960 --> 0:15:54.520 he pulled that horse's head all the way around where 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.880 dead gone near touched that saddle. Well, when the horses 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.120 like that, he came buck. He can't do much of nothing, 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.080 but you'd run around in a circle. And when he 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:07.560 did that, hold jumped up on that horse, and the 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:11.000 second hit Buck hit that horse's saddle. He turned that 0:16:11.120 --> 0:16:13.760 rein loose and let him slip through his fingers and 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:17.240 the horse took off. And on the first book he 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:22.400 made Holt pulled a pistol, and well at that shot, 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:24.960 that horse took all running, and then he slowed down 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:28.560 enough to start bucking again. Hope shot again. Every time 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:30.880 he'd go to buck, Holk would shoot up in the 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:33.720 air and nick thing, they ain't no holder running out 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:38.640 through the plane shooting that gun. Popp said, after about 0:16:38.680 --> 0:16:41.240 fifteen in a minute, Hope come walking back in that hard, 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:43.640 just as gentle as he can be. He said, that's 0:16:43.680 --> 0:16:47.040 pretty good horse. When I read that story, I was 0:16:47.080 --> 0:16:49.840 like those cowboys. I had no idea why he asked 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:52.440 for six shooters, but it makes perfect sense what he 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:55.120 was doing. He said, when the horses bucking, that's when 0:16:55.120 --> 0:16:57.200 you get thrown off. And he knew he could ride 0:16:57.200 --> 0:16:59.840 that horse if it was running, that's right. He's like, yeah, 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:01.760 the horse might buck me off if it just stands 0:17:01.760 --> 0:17:04.600 here and bucks, he said, but if that horse is running. 0:17:05.359 --> 0:17:08.960 And he noted that it was a treeless area, I 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:12.439 mean he said it was just vast and wide. And 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:15.879 so what a story. These things I think are important 0:17:16.320 --> 0:17:20.040 to me. They are that story was recorded. I mean, 0:17:20.119 --> 0:17:23.440 Holt Collier told that story. That's the way he told it, 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:26.800 which is so interesting, and and anybody that knows I'm 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:30.680 about horses. I've shot off a horse and got bunked 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:34.600 off after I shot the boys, after I threw him 0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:40.080 a gun down. I'm a sucker for a good roughstock 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.920 ride and an unlikely cowboy gain in the respect of 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:46.560 the super punchers. How has this story not been made 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:50.760 into a movie? We explained it. But Holt wasn't sure 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:53.159 he could ride a bucking horse. But he knew he 0:17:53.200 --> 0:17:56.200 could ride a running horse, so he shot to make 0:17:56.240 --> 0:18:00.440 the horse run, not buck. And you ain't no cowboy. 0:18:00.480 --> 0:18:03.119 If you don't know that trick, try that would offer 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:08.040 sized deal Brisbee. For the record, Hank mentioned that Halts 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.320 stopped by to see soul Ross, who was one of 0:18:11.400 --> 0:18:15.600 Holt's former commanders in the Confederate Calvary who would later 0:18:15.640 --> 0:18:19.399 become the nineteenth Governor of Texas and president of the 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:23.240 College Texas. A and M. Holt was basically in the 0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:27.800 who's who club of the Postbell him South. Here's Minor 0:18:28.080 --> 0:18:33.960 with yet another odd overlap of holtz life and Holt 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.400 went out to Texas to the area of Titus County, Texas. 0:18:37.640 --> 0:18:40.040 I would read all this stuff in my research, and 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:43.720 I had I just couldn't believe it. Until I corroborated 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:49.160 with another source, and I corroborated everything except one item. 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:52.040 He says in Texas he met Frank James with the 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:56.199 Jesse James gang, and I was unable to corroborate that. 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:58.679 But then I did my research on the James Gang, 0:18:59.200 --> 0:19:02.040 and sure enough, when they would take a break out 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:05.400 of ribbing people in Missouri in Arkansas and they would 0:19:05.400 --> 0:19:08.200 go down to this area of Texas during the same 0:19:08.240 --> 0:19:12.919 period of time. So it's possible. That possible. But he said, well, 0:19:12.920 --> 0:19:16.080 why would he tell a reporter who interviewed I met 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:19.600 Frank James. That's that's just such a random fact for 0:19:19.680 --> 0:19:21.919 him to do. But so I believe it, but I 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:27.480 never was able to, you know, so solidly corroborated Frank James. 0:19:28.080 --> 0:19:31.760 He was the older brother of the notorious outlaw Jesse James, 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:34.920 and Frank was involved in at least four bank robberies. 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:37.720 The only reason I doubt this story is I figure 0:19:37.720 --> 0:19:39.680 if hold had found him, he had killed him or 0:19:39.760 --> 0:19:42.160 hog tied him and turned him in for the bounty. 0:19:42.560 --> 0:19:45.600 Frank was a secessionist for Missouri and fought for the 0:19:45.640 --> 0:19:50.160 Confederacy in the Civil War before he became a criminal. Interestingly, 0:19:50.480 --> 0:19:55.159 in two five months after his brother Jesse James was killed, 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:59.880 Frank James made an appointment with the governor of Missouri 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:04.159 to turn himself in. This was back when hardened criminals 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:08.159 had some nobility and drama. He's quoted as saying to 0:20:08.200 --> 0:20:11.840 the governor as he handed him his pistol. Quote, I've 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:15.800 been hunted for twenty one years, have literally lived in 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:19.240 the saddle, have never known a day of perfect peace. 0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:26.760 It was a long, anxious, inexorable, eternal vigil end of quote. Anyway, 0:20:27.000 --> 0:20:30.400 Holt said he met Frank James and minor and I 0:20:30.440 --> 0:20:34.359 believe him. And for any of you traveling through Waco, Texas, 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:39.760 here's something for you to go see. And we don't 0:20:39.800 --> 0:20:42.400 know a lot about the two years he stayed out 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.159 in Texas except we know who that he went out there, 0:20:45.200 --> 0:20:48.120 and he stayed on a ranch with his guys he knew, 0:20:48.119 --> 0:20:50.520 and he rode with and Saul Ross, who had been 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:53.720 the commander of the Night Texas Cavalry as what would 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:57.439 have it. And there's a there's a wonderful work of 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:01.720 art in Waco, Texas. The largest is I've been describing 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:04.159 me as the largest bronze work of art in the 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:07.240 state of Texas takes up several lakers and his ten 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:10.840 or twelve hit a longhorn cattle are all at one 0:21:10.880 --> 0:21:15.000 in the half size, and then the three cowboys. If 0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:18.480 you know your your history of of Waco, Texas, all 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:23.359 these cattle uh drives would go through Waco. Somebody came 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.280 up with the ideals build a bridge, a big wide bridge, 0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:28.959 and charge of dollar ahead for these cattle. And so 0:21:29.119 --> 0:21:31.120 the city of Waco started making a lot of money. 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:33.879 Bridge is still there. It's wonderful spot. And uh. But 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:36.720 they said, let's let's build these bronze longhorns and these 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:40.840 cowboys to herd these cattle across this bridge. And and 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:44.480 somebody out there had read my book and they made 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:49.800 a significant contribution for this project. And his only consideration was, 0:21:50.160 --> 0:21:52.760 I will contribute the money as long as you make 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:56.840 one of these cowboys whole cager. So they did. Uh. 0:21:57.040 --> 0:21:59.640 Looks just like Holtz wearing his van Dyke Beard got 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:01.800 to say. It turned up in the front, but you 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:03.480 wouldn't know his hold. But if you look at I 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:07.320 think it's his left heel and carved into his left hill. 0:22:07.359 --> 0:22:11.000 It's his Holt car. Here there's a bronze statue of 0:22:11.040 --> 0:22:14.840 Holt in Waco, Texas. I like it. Post a picture 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:17.240 and tag me on Instagram if you're down there and 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:20.560 you see that statue. This was done in modern times, 0:22:20.640 --> 0:22:24.280 and Holt would have never known anything about it. I'm 0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:26.359 torn when I learned about these guys that live their 0:22:26.400 --> 0:22:30.399 whole lives without many public accolades, and then after they're dead, 0:22:30.760 --> 0:22:33.560 they make statues of them. I'm not saying it's wrong, 0:22:33.960 --> 0:22:37.159 It's just a shame that they never knew such as life. 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:40.000 I guess, well, let's pick back up with holtz life 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:43.120 in Texas. He only spent about two years out there. 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:49.959 And remember he's running from trouble. Holt is out of Texas. 0:22:49.400 --> 0:22:53.160 He's working as a cowhan on one of these ranches. 0:22:53.240 --> 0:22:58.320 Word comes to him that his mentor, former master, Howell Haines, 0:22:58.760 --> 0:23:03.040 has been killed in a knife fight in Greenville, Mississippi. 0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:06.280 We already know how Heinz is a scrapper, but in 0:23:06.320 --> 0:23:10.919 this situation, he's with a friend in a bar restaurant 0:23:11.080 --> 0:23:14.680 in Greenville. Now, Howell has never taken the oath. He's 0:23:14.680 --> 0:23:16.960 got friends who have taken oath. You got to take 0:23:16.960 --> 0:23:19.960 the oath to get your voting rights back to become 0:23:19.960 --> 0:23:26.040 a citizen, and every Confederate who he's got to take 0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:29.560 an oath of loyalty to the United States. Uh, and 0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:33.240 then he's restored to all his civil rights. Howell Haines 0:23:33.320 --> 0:23:35.680 never does that, and he gets into an argument with 0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:38.480 Dr Blanton, who's one of the memory of one of 0:23:38.520 --> 0:23:42.040 the founding families in Greenville who had taken the oath, 0:23:42.119 --> 0:23:44.119 and they get into an argument. It's just like I 0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:47.480 guess left and the right argue today, and I'm sure 0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:52.720 alcohol is pretty significantly involved. And Howell tries to break 0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:55.160