1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: M should you see that pony or beyond in that 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:09,959 Speaker 1: corras and if you can ride that pony, then we'll 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: give you a job. And by that time all ottle 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 1: cowboards around. They heard what the strow balls shit, and 5 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,760 Speaker 1: they turned around snickering and laughing. Ain't nobody had been 6 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,040 Speaker 1: able to ride that horse? As to one horse, and 7 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: the whole remutal that nobody could ride to hold shut 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: I riding on this episode of the bear Grease podcast 9 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: were on part two and our Holt call your series 10 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: and we're looking into the second section of his life 11 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,360 Speaker 1: from the age of twenty to his mid sixties, which 12 00:00:39,400 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 1: were defined by gunfights, cowboy in and bear hunting. Holt 13 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 1: was a former slave turned Confederate soldier. He was acquitted 14 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:51,600 Speaker 1: of the murder of the white Man after the Civil War, 15 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: and he made a lot of money as a market 16 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: bear hunter in the primeval swamps of Mississippi. Holt was 17 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: buddies with presidents, governors, and outlaws. He became an accomplished 18 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: cowboy in Texas while running from the vigilante justice of 19 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,800 Speaker 1: those that wanted him hung. Holt was married three times. 20 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: He was a deputy sheriff. His best dog was named Mandy, 21 00:01:13,319 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: and he had a baseball team named after him, and 22 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: he guided President Teddy Roosevelt on the hunt that created 23 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 1: the global icon of the Teddy Bear. We'll talk about 24 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:28,559 Speaker 1: that on episode three. Holt Collier lived an incredible life. 25 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 1: You wouldn't believe Holt story if it wasn't the truth. 26 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: He's surrounded by controversy and irony, but one thing is 27 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: for certain. He was an extraordinary and brilliant man and 28 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:45,520 Speaker 1: his legacy deserves to sit with the kings of American culture. 29 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: We're in search of learning who this man was. So 30 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: I really doubt you're gonna want to miss this one, 31 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: because after about fifteen point a minute, Hope come walking 32 00:01:56,720 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: general as he can be pretty good hard now. Mh. 33 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: My name is Clay Nukelem, and this is the Bear 34 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: Grease Podcast, where we'll explore things forgotten but relevant, search 35 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: for insight and unlikely places, and where we'll tell the 36 00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: story of Americans who lived their lives close to the land. 37 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 1: Presented by f HF Gear, American made purpose built hunting 38 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,519 Speaker 1: and fishing gear that's designed to be as rugged as 39 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: the places we explore. When I started my research, there 40 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: was this legend of whole career. So I started my 41 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: book as a novel, and I wrote, I don't wrote 42 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 1: twelve thirteen chapters, work on it for like a year 43 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: and a half. That's a year and a half work, 44 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: and I've got a good plot line. I got to saying, going, 45 00:02:57,639 --> 00:02:59,239 Speaker 1: you know, I think I've got a good book going 46 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,160 Speaker 1: in and I realized, you know, all that SAIDs it's 47 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,080 Speaker 1: a novel and it's based on fact, but it's fiction. 48 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,280 Speaker 1: I woke up one morning I realized all I'm doing 49 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 1: is adding to the legend by writing a historical fictional 50 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: whole carrier, because nobody's gonna believe this. Nobody's gonna believe 51 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: when I'm right here, because it was it was true, 52 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:23,079 Speaker 1: but it's all true. But I was given dialogue that 53 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,360 Speaker 1: kind of thing, and so I took that to manuscript 54 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: and I threw in the trash. I'm gonna write historical fact. 55 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,440 Speaker 1: So I wanted to write a book that people would 56 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 1: read and there would be no question that this man existed. 57 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: These life events that he experienced. It happened the life 58 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 1: of Holt Collier is unbelievable. Fiction couldn't rival the facts, 59 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: and author Minor Ferris Buchanan of Jackson, Mississippi in the 60 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:57,119 Speaker 1: early nineteen nineties, realized that his book titled Holt Collier 61 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: was published in two thousand two, and after teen years 62 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: of research before it was published, it impacted a lot 63 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: of people. I've heard about the whole call you all 64 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: my life. Never knew that much about him until Miner's 65 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 1: book came out. There was a black gentleman in town 66 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,839 Speaker 1: named John Johnson. John Johnson was an eighty year old 67 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 1: black man. He's one of the best friends I've ever had. 68 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: He was I shan't save my major domo, but he was. 69 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,920 Speaker 1: We I never went anywhere without John Johnson. And John 70 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 1: Johnson would tell stories about the old days and growing 71 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 1: up in Graham, and he knew Whole Collier and yeah, 72 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: I was forty years old and he was eighty something 73 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: years old. Oh wow. And he ended up being the 74 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 1: best man in my wedding. And John knew Hole Callier 75 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: and remembered Whole Collier seeing him and uh, seeing the 76 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: little kids coming by then and crawling up, getting up 77 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: on his front porch, want him to tell stories. And 78 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:54,840 Speaker 1: Hold would tell him go down to the tour and 79 00:04:54,839 --> 00:04:57,680 Speaker 1: get him an armed knee high and plug it back 80 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:59,840 Speaker 1: on and they bring it back then he got telling. 81 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: So that was those worth some of the things that 82 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 1: I knew and had heard about Whold Caller that was 83 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: Hankberg dying and before Miner's research, holtz story was en 84 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: route to be lost. But after his five year old 85 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: daughter quizzed him about the origin of the teddy Bear, 86 00:05:18,080 --> 00:05:20,560 Speaker 1: he began a research project that would define more than 87 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: a decade of his life. And luckily some of the 88 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:26,719 Speaker 1: people who actually knew hold were still in the Greenville area. 89 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: Minor captured the last remaining firsthand knowledge of Holt like 90 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: a kid scooping tadpoles out of a drying mud hole 91 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: an episode one of this series. We made it through 92 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: the first twenty years of Holt Collier's life, just to 93 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:44,920 Speaker 1: get you caught up and refreshed. Here's the stuff we've learned. 94 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: Holt was a black man born enslaved to the Hinz 95 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: family in Mississippi in eighteen forty six. The Hinds were 96 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:56,640 Speaker 1: politically powerful and wealthy, and Holt worked directly for how 97 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,680 Speaker 1: Hinz as his hustler, taking care of horses, hounds, and 98 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: hunting for the plantation. Holt began to set himself apart 99 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:06,320 Speaker 1: by killing his first bear when he was only ten 100 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: years old. A few years later, boldly rejecting the wishes 101 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:14,640 Speaker 1: of hal Hin's, Holt runs away to join the Confederate 102 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,040 Speaker 1: Army at the age of fourteen and becomes an accomplished 103 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:22,559 Speaker 1: soldier in the ninth Texas Cavalry, a roving horseback unit 104 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: involved in guerrilla warfare, covert raids, and dispensing backwoods justice 105 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: to Union sympathizers. Holt's involvement in the Ninth Texas branded 106 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: his life, evidenced by his habit of brandishing firearms and 107 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: wearing his Confederate hat with the bill flipped up most 108 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 1: of his life. The idea of a black man fighting 109 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: in the Confederate Army is a complicated story, and on 110 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: part one Jonathan Wilkins introduced us to the idea that 111 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 1: holtz situation was very complex and that race relations dominated 112 00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: his life, though he navigated them seemingly with ease. But 113 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 1: if you remember, things got wild when Holt kept shooting folks. 114 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: After the war, Holt shot a white man in defense 115 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: of his former slave owner, Howel Hinz, which sounds wild, 116 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,280 Speaker 1: but he got off without any charges pressed. Secondly, he 117 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: was accused, tried, and acquitted in a military tribunal for 118 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: the murder of Captain James A. King, a Union officer 119 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: and member of the Freedman's Bureau who was stationed in 120 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:33,400 Speaker 1: the South after the war. This is almost unbelievable based 121 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 1: upon what we know about the time period. However, this 122 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: is where the magic of holtz life, evidenced in uncountable ways, 123 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: is seen so strongly. Holt was special and engendered the 124 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 1: trust of those around him, overwriting the dominating racial norms 125 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: of the time. Holt was represented in his trial by 126 00:07:55,080 --> 00:08:01,080 Speaker 1: the best lawyer in Mississippi, the Gray Eagle, William Alexander Percy, 127 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: the first Now we're in a new sector of Holt's 128 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 1: long life. He lived to be ninety years old, and 129 00:08:08,800 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 1: wouldn't you know it, it starts off with some more killing. 130 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 1: Here's minor Ferris Buchanan with a wild story. We're skipping 131 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 1: one major stories about hold and that is the gunfight 132 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: at Washburn's. Ferry fellow name Sage, who's from originally from Waterford, Mississippi, 133 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: which is close to wround from. He was a kind 134 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 1: of a renegade deputy share from over in Louisiana. It 135 00:08:37,679 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 1: killed a couple of prominent young men in their early twenties, 136 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: and he crossed the river, came over into the Mississippi 137 00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: Delta to hide out. And as Holts going out to 138 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 1: start his season, he's leaving Greenville, he's loaded up his 139 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:55,440 Speaker 1: provisions in his wagon, and the sheriff comes to him 140 00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:58,160 Speaker 1: and tells him hold his fellows out. Of all sage 141 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:02,320 Speaker 1: from Louisiana, we think hiding out, keeping out for him, 142 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: it's another He's a white man, Holt, who served as 143 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: a deputy sheriff before, who's been who because they knew 144 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:10,920 Speaker 1: him to be very dependable in a good shot. He 145 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: takes that seriously. And as he's going into the wilderness, 146 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: as a river up there called the boat Fly. Sometimes 147 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: it's low, sometimes it's high, depending on the weather. But 148 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 1: right there on his Washburn store, and he has he 149 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 1: has a ferry service, so it's called Washburn's Ferry. As 150 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 1: Holt rides up there in his wagon with his mule, 151 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:33,640 Speaker 1: he sees the man that fits the description of this 152 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,640 Speaker 1: sage character and on his horse and there's Washburn standing 153 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 1: there talking to him. Now Holt realizes this is sage 154 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 1: and he's got to come up with a plan. They 155 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 1: can't just walk up to him with a gun drawn. 156 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 1: He acts kind of friendly, and Washburn it makes the introductions, 157 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 1: and he says, that's a fine looking Winchester rifle. You 158 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: got there? Your mind? If I look at it. His 159 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,680 Speaker 1: purpose is to disarm this fellow, say It says, sure, 160 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:02,800 Speaker 1: look at it, and he hands him the rifle voluntarily, 161 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,079 Speaker 1: and Hope puts the rifle down, leanings it up against 162 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: the porch and immediately says you're under rest. And Washburn 163 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: standing on the porch. They're all pretty close together, and 164 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 1: even though Washburn knows hold, I can only assume it's 165 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,440 Speaker 1: two white men one black man. And Washburn picks up 166 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: that rifle and passes it over to sayge she's on 167 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: the horse, and Sage immediately comes down to aim the 168 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: gun at swing, swings it on Hold, puts the muzzle 169 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: on him, and the barrel of the gun hits that 170 00:10:34,600 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: horse right between the ears, and if you know anything 171 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: about horses, that's a very sensitive spot. And the horse 172 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: rears up just enough for Hope to pull his revolver 173 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: and literally gunfight. Hope shoots the guy right through the chest. 174 00:10:49,679 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: The man falls dead on his back and cocked rifle 175 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 1: in his hand, and there's a corner's inquest. That's as 176 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: far as it goes. I'm sure the sheriff aim and 177 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 1: test five coroner's in quest, and Hope was exonerated and 178 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:06,479 Speaker 1: found not guilty. That he never even went to court 179 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 1: heat heat well, the only court he went to was 180 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 1: a court what's called the coroner's in quest. The corner 181 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,839 Speaker 1: makes the initial determination whether it's a homicide, justifible or otherwise. 182 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:18,960 Speaker 1: And he said self defense. You know, we don't have 183 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,199 Speaker 1: that report, but I know it was a corner's inquest. 184 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 1: And holding on back in the woods and continued hunting. 185 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:27,439 Speaker 1: And then that article that's eighteen eighty one. Now that 186 00:11:27,520 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 1: are that's after reconstruction. We no longer have Union soldiers 187 00:11:30,840 --> 00:11:33,720 Speaker 1: down anymore. And that killing of a white man by 188 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: a black man in Greenville, Mississippi, out and out and 189 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 1: still the wilderness raised the ire of a lot of 190 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: people enough that it made the newspaper in Jackson, Mississippi, 191 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: and the headline was white man killed by a black man. 192 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: That's a fine looking Winchester rifle, Holt said, before he 193 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:56,679 Speaker 1: took the gun and drew his pistol. That's nervy. The 194 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: gunfight at Washburn's ferry took place in eighteen eighty one, 195 00:12:00,559 --> 00:12:03,520 Speaker 1: and it is the third man that Holt has shot 196 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: or allegedly shot since the Civil War ended. And we 197 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 1: just learned another new thing. Holt was a deputy sheriff 198 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 1: in Mississippi for a while. But now we're gonna go 199 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: back to eighteen sixty six, to where we left off. 200 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: After the trial in Vicksburg, when Holt was acquitted of 201 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,320 Speaker 1: the murder of Captain James A. King, holtz friends have 202 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:29,160 Speaker 1: some advice for him if he wants to live. They 203 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,079 Speaker 1: had a meeting right there on the courthouse grounds where 204 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: William Alexander Percy and Howell Heinz and other prominent people 205 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: from Greenville, Mississippi, said, Holt, if you come back to Greenville, 206 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 1: we cannot protect you because James A. King was, according 207 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: to everything I've been able to find, was much beloved 208 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: by his men we're talking about. And there's a garrison 209 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: of several hundred Union soldiers there, and if Holt goes 210 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,439 Speaker 1: back to Greenville, he's gonna be strung up. So as 211 00:13:00,520 --> 00:13:03,199 Speaker 1: luck would have at, some of the Texas boys that 212 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:06,400 Speaker 1: hold had ridden with were still around. They hadn't gone 213 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,079 Speaker 1: back to Texas yet, and they were there and they said, well, Holt, 214 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 1: I'm on out to Texas with us. You can ride 215 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: with us and and we'll give you a job. You're 216 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,080 Speaker 1: good with horses, And so that's what he did. What 217 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: good American story doesn't mid plot have the good guy 218 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 1: slash outlaw flee into Texas. No way, Minor could have 219 00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 1: made a flashy fiction story better than the truth. Here's 220 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: hankberd dying telling how Holt got his first job on 221 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: a Texas ranch. Did I mentioned in the bullet points 222 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: about holtz life in the first episode that he became 223 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: an accomplished Texas cowboy. No? I didn't, but he did. 224 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:54,079 Speaker 1: And when Holt got back to Greenville, they on him. 225 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,239 Speaker 1: He was acquitted, but they were gonna get him anyway. 226 00:13:57,360 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 1: And word got to whole ship, Hold, you need to 227 00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 1: just get out of here for a little while. Let 228 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,040 Speaker 1: let's smoke clear, you know. So Hold decided to go 229 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:07,720 Speaker 1: to Texas where his partners were. So he gets out 230 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 1: yond and he goes and sees saw ross Uh and 231 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,960 Speaker 1: Saul says, yeah, we find something for you to do 232 00:14:14,040 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 1: out here, and so he sent him out in the 233 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: Plains to a coupboard crew. I r said, they'll they'll 234 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,640 Speaker 1: probably give you a job, and holds a little wiry, 235 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: not a big book kind of guy. So he comes 236 00:14:25,720 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: out there, and none of these guys in this outfit, 237 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: they don't know they don't know it. Well, it's a 238 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: bunch of these old cowboys out then probably all I'm white. Now, 239 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,000 Speaker 1: there were a lot of black cowboards out that time, 240 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,400 Speaker 1: so I can't say that there weren't any in that crew. 241 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: So he goes out there and see the straw balls 242 00:14:39,960 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: and said, I'd like to have jobs, says so, and 243 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,600 Speaker 1: you know anything about cattle and horses, he's a yess, 244 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 1: I know a little bit about horses and all he says, well, 245 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,040 Speaker 1: I tell you what we'll do. Said, you see that 246 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: pony over beyond there in that carras, said if you 247 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:58,040 Speaker 1: can ride that pony, that we'll give you a job. 248 00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: And by that time, all those cowboys around they heard 249 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 1: what the strow balls said, and they turned around snickering 250 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: and laughing. Ain't ain't nobody had been able to ride 251 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: that horse. That's the one horse and the whole remutal 252 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:14,240 Speaker 1: that nobody could ride. So hold said, I ain't riding, 253 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: he said, saddle him up. So they caught the horse 254 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:18,760 Speaker 1: and they got the saddle on him and got him 255 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:22,360 Speaker 1: sensed up tighten. This horse is just going crazy. So 256 00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 1: the next thing Holks I asked for is a pair 257 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:29,960 Speaker 1: of six shooters loaded. The rest of the cowboys jumped 258 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: behind trees. They don't know where he's going with us. 259 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 1: They have no idea where he's going with this. Holding 260 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: new because holding you by the horses. So they gave 261 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: him the gruns and he strapped them on and he 262 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: grabbed that horse's reins and the first thing he did 263 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 1: was run those reins around that saddle horn and all 264 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: being pulled that horse. And if you know anything about horses, 265 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: he pulled that horse's head all the way around where 266 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: dead gone near touched that saddle. Well, when the horses 267 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 1: like that, he came buck. He can't do much of nothing, 268 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 1: but you'd run around in a circle. And when he 269 00:16:04,160 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 1: did that, hold jumped up on that horse, and the 270 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: second hit Buck hit that horse's saddle. He turned that 271 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 1: rein loose and let him slip through his fingers and 272 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: the horse took off. And on the first book he 273 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:22,400 Speaker 1: made Holt pulled a pistol, and well at that shot, 274 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: that horse took all running, and then he slowed down 275 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: enough to start bucking again. Hope shot again. Every time 276 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: he'd go to buck, Holk would shoot up in the 277 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: air and nick thing, they ain't no holder running out 278 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: through the plane shooting that gun. Popp said, after about 279 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 1: fifteen in a minute, Hope come walking back in that hard, 280 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: just as gentle as he can be. He said, that's 281 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: pretty good horse. When I read that story, I was 282 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: like those cowboys. I had no idea why he asked 283 00:16:49,880 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: for six shooters, but it makes perfect sense what he 284 00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: was doing. He said, when the horses bucking, that's when 285 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,200 Speaker 1: you get thrown off. And he knew he could ride 286 00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 1: that horse if it was running, that's right. He's like, yeah, 287 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:01,760 Speaker 1: the horse might buck me off if it just stands 288 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,600 Speaker 1: here and bucks, he said, but if that horse is running. 289 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: And he noted that it was a treeless area, I 290 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,439 Speaker 1: mean he said it was just vast and wide. And 291 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 1: so what a story. These things I think are important 292 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:20,040 Speaker 1: to me. They are that story was recorded. I mean, 293 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:23,440 Speaker 1: Holt Collier told that story. That's the way he told it, 294 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: which is so interesting, and and anybody that knows I'm 295 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,680 Speaker 1: about horses. I've shot off a horse and got bunked 296 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: off after I shot the boys, after I threw him 297 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: a gun down. I'm a sucker for a good roughstock 298 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,920 Speaker 1: ride and an unlikely cowboy gain in the respect of 299 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:46,560 Speaker 1: the super punchers. How has this story not been made 300 00:17:46,680 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: into a movie? We explained it. But Holt wasn't sure 301 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,159 Speaker 1: he could ride a bucking horse. But he knew he 302 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: could ride a running horse, so he shot to make 303 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,440 Speaker 1: the horse run, not buck. And you ain't no cowboy. 304 00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 1: If you don't know that trick, try that would offer 305 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:08,040 Speaker 1: sized deal Brisbee. For the record, Hank mentioned that Halts 306 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: stopped by to see soul Ross, who was one of 307 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 1: Holt's former commanders in the Confederate Calvary who would later 308 00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:19,399 Speaker 1: become the nineteenth Governor of Texas and president of the 309 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: College Texas. A and M. Holt was basically in the 310 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: who's who club of the Postbell him South. Here's Minor 311 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:33,960 Speaker 1: with yet another odd overlap of holtz life and Holt 312 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: went out to Texas to the area of Titus County, Texas. 313 00:18:37,640 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: I would read all this stuff in my research, and 314 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: I had I just couldn't believe it. Until I corroborated 315 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:49,160 Speaker 1: with another source, and I corroborated everything except one item. 316 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 1: He says in Texas he met Frank James with the 317 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,199 Speaker 1: Jesse James gang, and I was unable to corroborate that. 318 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,679 Speaker 1: But then I did my research on the James Gang, 319 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: and sure enough, when they would take a break out 320 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 1: of ribbing people in Missouri in Arkansas and they would 321 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,200 Speaker 1: go down to this area of Texas during the same 322 00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 1: period of time. So it's possible. That possible. But he said, well, 323 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: why would he tell a reporter who interviewed I met 324 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: Frank James. That's that's just such a random fact for 325 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,919 Speaker 1: him to do. But so I believe it, but I 326 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 1: never was able to, you know, so solidly corroborated Frank James. 327 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,760 Speaker 1: He was the older brother of the notorious outlaw Jesse James, 328 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:34,920 Speaker 1: and Frank was involved in at least four bank robberies. 329 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,720 Speaker 1: The only reason I doubt this story is I figure 330 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: if hold had found him, he had killed him or 331 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: hog tied him and turned him in for the bounty. 332 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: Frank was a secessionist for Missouri and fought for the 333 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: Confederacy in the Civil War before he became a criminal. Interestingly, 334 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:55,159 Speaker 1: in two five months after his brother Jesse James was killed, 335 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 1: Frank James made an appointment with the governor of Missouri 336 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: to turn himself in. This was back when hardened criminals 337 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,159 Speaker 1: had some nobility and drama. He's quoted as saying to 338 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: the governor as he handed him his pistol. Quote, I've 339 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 1: been hunted for twenty one years, have literally lived in 340 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: the saddle, have never known a day of perfect peace. 341 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:26,760 Speaker 1: It was a long, anxious, inexorable, eternal vigil end of quote. Anyway, 342 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,400 Speaker 1: Holt said he met Frank James and minor and I 343 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:34,359 Speaker 1: believe him. And for any of you traveling through Waco, Texas, 344 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: here's something for you to go see. And we don't 345 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:42,400 Speaker 1: know a lot about the two years he stayed out 346 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,159 Speaker 1: in Texas except we know who that he went out there, 347 00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:48,120 Speaker 1: and he stayed on a ranch with his guys he knew, 348 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: and he rode with and Saul Ross, who had been 349 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,720 Speaker 1: the commander of the Night Texas Cavalry as what would 350 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,439 Speaker 1: have it. And there's a there's a wonderful work of 351 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 1: art in Waco, Texas. The largest is I've been describing 352 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: me as the largest bronze work of art in the 353 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,240 Speaker 1: state of Texas takes up several lakers and his ten 354 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,840 Speaker 1: or twelve hit a longhorn cattle are all at one 355 00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: in the half size, and then the three cowboys. If 356 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: you know your your history of of Waco, Texas, all 357 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:23,359 Speaker 1: these cattle uh drives would go through Waco. Somebody came 358 00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,280 Speaker 1: up with the ideals build a bridge, a big wide bridge, 359 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:28,959 Speaker 1: and charge of dollar ahead for these cattle. And so 360 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 1: the city of Waco started making a lot of money. 361 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: Bridge is still there. It's wonderful spot. And uh. But 362 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: they said, let's let's build these bronze longhorns and these 363 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: cowboys to herd these cattle across this bridge. And and 364 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 1: somebody out there had read my book and they made 365 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: a significant contribution for this project. And his only consideration was, 366 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,760 Speaker 1: I will contribute the money as long as you make 367 00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:56,840 Speaker 1: one of these cowboys whole cager. So they did. Uh. 368 00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: Looks just like Holtz wearing his van Dyke Beard got 369 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,800 Speaker 1: to say. It turned up in the front, but you 370 00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: wouldn't know his hold. But if you look at I 371 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: think it's his left heel and carved into his left hill. 372 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: It's his Holt car. Here there's a bronze statue of 373 00:22:11,040 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 1: Holt in Waco, Texas. I like it. Post a picture 374 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: and tag me on Instagram if you're down there and 375 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,560 Speaker 1: you see that statue. This was done in modern times, 376 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,280 Speaker 1: and Holt would have never known anything about it. I'm 377 00:22:24,320 --> 00:22:26,359 Speaker 1: torn when I learned about these guys that live their 378 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: whole lives without many public accolades, and then after they're dead, 379 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,560 Speaker 1: they make statues of them. I'm not saying it's wrong, 380 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,159 Speaker 1: It's just a shame that they never knew such as life. 381 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,000 Speaker 1: I guess, well, let's pick back up with holtz life 382 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 1: in Texas. He only spent about two years out there. 383 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:49,959 Speaker 1: And remember he's running from trouble. Holt is out of Texas. 384 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,160 Speaker 1: He's working as a cowhan on one of these ranches. 385 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: Word comes to him that his mentor, former master, Howell Haines, 386 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:03,040 Speaker 1: has been killed in a knife fight in Greenville, Mississippi. 387 00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:06,280 Speaker 1: We already know how Heinz is a scrapper, but in 388 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: this situation, he's with a friend in a bar restaurant 389 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: in Greenville. Now, Howell has never taken the oath. He's 390 00:23:14,680 --> 00:23:16,960 Speaker 1: got friends who have taken oath. You got to take 391 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: the oath to get your voting rights back to become 392 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:26,040 Speaker 1: a citizen, and every Confederate who he's got to take 393 00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:29,560 Speaker 1: an oath of loyalty to the United States. Uh, and 394 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: then he's restored to all his civil rights. Howell Haines 395 00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,680 Speaker 1: never does that, and he gets into an argument with 396 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: Dr Blanton, who's one of the memory of one of 397 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:42,040 Speaker 1: the founding families in Greenville who had taken the oath, 398 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: and they get into an argument. It's just like I 399 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:47,480 Speaker 1: guess left and the right argue today, and I'm sure 400 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:52,720 Speaker 1: alcohol is pretty significantly involved. And Howell tries to break 401 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: up a fight. How's in the middle of it, of course, 402 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:57,280 Speaker 1: but at the moment this happens, he tries to break 403 00:23:57,359 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: up the fight, and Blanton, who's already pulled out of life, 404 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,119 Speaker 1: goes to stab the other guy, and he stabs how heins, 405 00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,360 Speaker 1: how dies in agony after about three days. I'm sure 406 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: infection said in and all that kind of thing, and 407 00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 1: he passes away word somehow gets out to Texas and 408 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 1: whole Kier immediately leaves. He doesn't waste any time. He's 409 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,280 Speaker 1: coming back. He's gonna find Dr Blanton. He's gonna kill 410 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:24,320 Speaker 1: Dr Bland. He's got revenge on his mind, and Hope 411 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:28,920 Speaker 1: comes back to Greenville, Mississippi, and guess what. Dr Blanton 412 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 1: has left town. He doesn't come back for six years 413 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,920 Speaker 1: because he knows Holt and holts reputation is well known 414 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:43,320 Speaker 1: in the community. Holt has now come back to Greenville, Mississippi, 415 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: and he's dead set on avenging his former slave owner. 416 00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,679 Speaker 1: How heinz who was killed by this Dr Blatton. But 417 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,679 Speaker 1: a woman steps in to advocate for the dock with Holt. 418 00:24:57,119 --> 00:25:01,280 Speaker 1: She's known as the Mother of Greenville. Here's how after 419 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 1: the Yankees burned grendled down during the Civil War, everybody 420 00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:06,600 Speaker 1: came home, folks said had lived him, moved out in 421 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:10,400 Speaker 1: the country, living wherever they could stay out John and 422 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 1: then the engineer that laid out Vicksburg, that got him 423 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: to come up here and lay out the streets for 424 00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:22,240 Speaker 1: new Greenville. And Ms Blanton gave the land. That's why 425 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 1: she's called the Mother of Greenville. And he gave the 426 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:28,520 Speaker 1: land for new grand for the new Greenville to be 427 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,919 Speaker 1: built back. And it was after the doctor and howl 428 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:36,720 Speaker 1: hein got into that that I who knew what he 429 00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:39,640 Speaker 1: had to do. He had to do something again. And 430 00:25:39,720 --> 00:25:44,680 Speaker 1: yet Miss Blanton asked him not to, and Hope let 431 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: it go. He was going to go kill the doctors, 432 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: that right, She said, don't kill him, and he said, okay, 433 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: because he was. After a while, Miss Blanton got to 434 00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: Hope and asked him not to have retribution, and he 435 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 1: respected what she and and that's what it did. Holt 436 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:09,800 Speaker 1: call your respected the wishes of the mother of Greenville, 437 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,679 Speaker 1: Miss Blanton. Interesting stuff. Is it integrity when you honor 438 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 1: a man's wife who politely asked you not to kill 439 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: her husband and you decide not to in an odd way, 440 00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,920 Speaker 1: it seems like it is. But we're gonna get back 441 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,399 Speaker 1: to the story. Holtz now back in Greenville to attend 442 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 1: to hal Heine's funeral and to show mercy to Dr. Blatton, 443 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,280 Speaker 1: but he's found himself in danger once again. Here's minor. 444 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: So here we are. It's eighteen and the South is 445 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 1: still under reconstruction. Those same men who had served under 446 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 1: James King are still occupying Greenville, Mississippi, and when they 447 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:53,199 Speaker 1: learned Holt is back in town, they arrest him and 448 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 1: they charge him again with the killing of James King, 449 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,199 Speaker 1: even though he's already been found not guilty. Has to 450 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: go through some to get the charges dropped and get 451 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,880 Speaker 1: him released. He gets arrested again, multiple times. He gets arrested, 452 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 1: and I think it every time he's arrested, there's a 453 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,960 Speaker 1: certain element of exposure there because he could have been Lynch. 454 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,960 Speaker 1: You remember when I told you it's a wondering Holt 455 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:20,199 Speaker 1: lived to be ninety years old. He's only now in 456 00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 1: his early twenties, and he's evaded many scrapes with death 457 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: and these won't be the last. In the first podcast, 458 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,359 Speaker 1: I dropped the bomb that Holt hunted with President Theodore Roosevelt, 459 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: which we'll talk about in episode three. But here's where 460 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: we're at. He's been acquitted of the murder, and the 461 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: verdict made it unsafe for Hope to be in Mississippi 462 00:27:41,119 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: and he had to get the heck out of Dodge. 463 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:47,960 Speaker 1: Here's Minor with one of the most mysterious stories about 464 00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,880 Speaker 1: a confession that Holt made. Well, right now, we don't 465 00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 1: know that Hope killed man. We don't know who killed 466 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:58,439 Speaker 1: James A. King until nineteen o two. Is the first 467 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 1: time he ever confesses to anybody? And who did he 468 00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: confess to? Theodore Roosevelt? How do we know that one 469 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,240 Speaker 1: of the members of the nineteen o two hunt, wrote 470 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 1: an article about the hunt, and in that article he 471 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,879 Speaker 1: gives one paragraph to the fact that Theodore Roosevelt pressed 472 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 1: Hod Carrier to tell him whether or not he had 473 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 1: killed James King. And in that article he says, Holt 474 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: admitted to killing James King. But that's another story for 475 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,400 Speaker 1: another article. Now he said, he said he killed him. 476 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:32,760 Speaker 1: This is what he said. He said he killed him 477 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: in a duel in the cane brake. But that's a 478 00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 1: story for another article. And of course it was never 479 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:43,000 Speaker 1: really if a living person admits to a murder, there's 480 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: no there's no statute of limitations. We're moving forward to 481 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 1: nineteen o two when he makes this confession. The killing 482 00:28:53,680 --> 00:28:57,320 Speaker 1: took place in the eighteen sixty six on this hunt, 483 00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 1: at the moment around that campfire and whole Carrier is 484 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 1: telling Theodore Roosevelt, yes, I killed James King and a 485 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: duel in the cane break Another participant standing right next 486 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: to him is Leroy Percy, who was William Alexander Percy's son, 487 00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 1: so his dad was there. I don't know what transpired 488 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: around that campfire, but I like to think who Carrier 489 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 1: refused to tell Theodore Roosevelt what happened. And this is 490 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,040 Speaker 1: a fact, he says, until he asked Leroy Percy would 491 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: be all right if I told the President of the 492 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: United States. And Leroy Percy told Holt it's okay to 493 00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 1: tell the president, and he told the President again. All 494 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: we know is what he told him was a duel 495 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: in the cane break. I'm sure he gave him more details. 496 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: But in my imagination, I like to think that Theodore 497 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: Roosevelt said, I'm gonna give you a pardon. I got 498 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: to hear what this story is. You know, you got 499 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 1: a president actually maybe the safest man he could tell 500 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:57,640 Speaker 1: the story to Theodore Rose if he knew he had 501 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: favorite with Theodore Roosevelt followed hole to round the camp site, 502 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 1: asking him questions, because you know, Theodore Roosevelt was this 503 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:09,120 Speaker 1: great huntsman, adored other huntsman, you know who, according to 504 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: everybody was on that hunt. They talked about how Theodore 505 00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:14,800 Speaker 1: Roosevelt followed whole colity around that most. He's the guy 506 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: that Roosevelt most respected out of all those guys. Roosevelt 507 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: had a Confederate connection. He had two uncles that served 508 00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,400 Speaker 1: in the Confederate from Georgia. Theodore Roosevelt was drawn to hope. 509 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,680 Speaker 1: There's no question about it, and he wanted to know 510 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,400 Speaker 1: what happened to James King. And he wasn't gonna leave 511 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: that hunt without knowing. You're sitting around a fire, camp fire, 512 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,560 Speaker 1: this is four or five nights, and you're telling these tales, 513 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,400 Speaker 1: you're sharing experiences. Things loosen up. I wish you had 514 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 1: more details, but I don't doubt it for a minute 515 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: that it was a duel in the can break, just 516 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: like he said when I when I came out with 517 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:52,160 Speaker 1: the book, I initially had used the word murder, and 518 00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 1: one of the editors read it and I said, wait 519 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: a minute, mind, and we don't want to portray Holt 520 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:59,800 Speaker 1: as a murderer. Do do we know that now? So 521 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: I guess I didn't think about it when I used 522 00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,239 Speaker 1: that term. And he says, well, what do we know 523 00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 1: about to kill it? I said, all we know is 524 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: it's a duel in the cane break. He says, well, 525 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 1: that's what you need to put in there, the duel 526 00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,440 Speaker 1: and the cane brakes. It's wild to me that a 527 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: national publication would have printed a murder confession in their paper, 528 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 1: but nothing was ever done about it. Holt wasn't pardoned 529 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 1: by Roosevelt because he'd never been convicted. It's a mystery, 530 00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 1: but the article was never refuted by Holt or the 531 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,480 Speaker 1: Percy's that we know of. It must have happened that 532 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 1: way around that campfire. However, we're getting way ahead of 533 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: ourselves by like thirty years, and it's stressing me out. 534 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: The best way to run a good story is to 535 00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:48,160 Speaker 1: cut to the punch line too quick. My wife Misty 536 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: knows about that's my pet peeve, and the Roosevelt hunt 537 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 1: is the punchline, which took place in nineteen o two. 538 00:31:55,080 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: So let's go back thirty years seventy. So Hold his 539 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 1: left Texas and his back in Greenville, but has found 540 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,680 Speaker 1: it an inhospitable place to chill. So he turns to 541 00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: something he's always loved and been good at, bear hunting. 542 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:14,440 Speaker 1: So he realizes at that point he needs to get 543 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 1: out of town. And what does he know how to 544 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:19,720 Speaker 1: do best? He knows how to hunt. Now here we are, 545 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 1: it's several years after the Civil War. You've got timber 546 00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: people have moved, and you've got new people coming in. 547 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,480 Speaker 1: You've got railroads being you've got a significant labor force, 548 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,480 Speaker 1: and it need to be fed. And you still can't 549 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: have livestock because it's still flooding every year. So it's 550 00:32:35,320 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: primarily timber. I mean, this is almost naturally the delta 551 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:43,280 Speaker 1: would be almost timber. All wilderness, I mean, the amount 552 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:48,200 Speaker 1: of ground that has been cleared for cultivation is minuscule 553 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: compared to the amount of wilderness that's out there. So 554 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: there's a lot of hunting to be done, there's a 555 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,160 Speaker 1: lot of feeding to be done. People willing to pay 556 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: money for animal carcasses. And so Hold has a brother 557 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 1: named Marshall who has a little stable in town. And 558 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,160 Speaker 1: Marshall puts him up in the wagon and he goes out, 559 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: I'm going to guess October November, and he'll go hunt 560 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:13,320 Speaker 1: and fill that wagon up full of meat, bring it 561 00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:15,720 Speaker 1: in and sell it, go out and sell it. And 562 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:20,720 Speaker 1: that essentially market hunting, big, big part of market hunting southward. 563 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: If if there were a railroad crew working on site, 564 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: he'd right up with a wagon full of meat and 565 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:27,800 Speaker 1: sell it to him. They look forward to. He wouldn't 566 00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:30,080 Speaker 1: only want to do any I mean, but so you 567 00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:34,040 Speaker 1: got hold of a professional, legitimate professional, legitimate profession and 568 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:38,480 Speaker 1: bear meat was a big ticket item. And Holt started 569 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: this about eighteen seventy and this was his career. When 570 00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: he was not hunting, he was helping his brother marshal 571 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: at in the stable or in the springtime, he would 572 00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: follow the fares. He was a trade. He get on 573 00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,440 Speaker 1: the train, go down to Florida, go out to Texas. 574 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,760 Speaker 1: He would live like how it taught him to live 575 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,680 Speaker 1: a big gambler, I think like the ladies. And he 576 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: spent and all his money and which there's even one 577 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: time one of the metcasts somebody had sent him some 578 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: money to get back because he'd spend it off. In 579 00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:12,719 Speaker 1: about eighteen seventy, Holt Collier becomes a market hunter, primarily 580 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,800 Speaker 1: for black bear in the American jungle that was the 581 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:20,239 Speaker 1: Mississippi Delta. At this time, not much of Mississippi was developed, 582 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:25,000 Speaker 1: and fast sections of it were basically virgin wilderness. Another 583 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:29,400 Speaker 1: interesting thing is that Mississippi was settled west to east, 584 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:33,240 Speaker 1: which is opposite of almost every other place in America, 585 00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,319 Speaker 1: because the access point was the Mississippi River on the 586 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:41,360 Speaker 1: western edge of the state. We introduced Jonathan Wilkins on 587 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:45,560 Speaker 1: the first episode. Here he is talking about the wild 588 00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,520 Speaker 1: place Holt was about to make a living on if 589 00:34:49,560 --> 00:34:52,040 Speaker 1: you start thinking about a place that is thick and 590 00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 1: lush and green, and there's all these different things that 591 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,239 Speaker 1: can hurt you and sting you invite you, and you've 592 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:01,080 Speaker 1: got alligators, and you've got poisonous snakes, and then it's 593 00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:05,880 Speaker 1: also the realm of this version of charismatic megafauna that 594 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,120 Speaker 1: we no longer even associate with those regions. Right Like 595 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 1: we think of black bears now as mountain creatures, but 596 00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: for so much of their existence in North America, there 597 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:20,799 Speaker 1: were also swamp creatures. So you're dealing with something that's 598 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:22,799 Speaker 1: you're dealing with the place that you know, I would 599 00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:26,480 Speaker 1: say tantamount to like the Everglades as far as like 600 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 1: how thick it is and the richness of life and 601 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:34,000 Speaker 1: also the hazards that can be present. Here's Hank describing 602 00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:40,160 Speaker 1: the Delta. The Mississippi Delta was the last alluvial floodplain 603 00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,160 Speaker 1: hardwood bottom land to be cleared in America, and it 604 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:48,560 Speaker 1: were covered with bear. It had more bear per square 605 00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 1: mile than any other place in America, and it was 606 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 1: great sport for hunters to hunt bear, and it was 607 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 1: a good source of meat. Of course, This was the 608 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:03,799 Speaker 1: last of the bottom land hardwood forest. The all of 609 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:07,520 Speaker 1: the pine and whatever, and the eastern seaboard had been 610 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,760 Speaker 1: cut out. They had gone out into the great forest 611 00:36:10,080 --> 00:36:13,320 Speaker 1: in the northwest. Call all that stuff out. You couldn't 612 00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 1: get in down here because there were no railroad, there 613 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 1: were no highway, there were no levis down here at 614 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:21,840 Speaker 1: the time. Yet we had oat trees and cypress trees 615 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,200 Speaker 1: and sycamore trees that were twenty and thirty feet in 616 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:30,440 Speaker 1: circumfort twelve fifteen feet in diame, two huge things. This 617 00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: American jungle was the backdrop of holtz life as a hunter. 618 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:39,800 Speaker 1: I want to read a couple of excerpts from Miner's 619 00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: book Halt Collier to learn something about his bear hunting. 620 00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: It's wild, but the Delta South has incredibly rich history 621 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: of bear hunting with hounds. Here are the deeds about 622 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:56,800 Speaker 1: holtz market hunting and why he did what he did. 623 00:36:56,840 --> 00:37:00,880 Speaker 1: This is from the book Halt Collier quote. In these 624 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 1: prosperous circumstances, Wholt Collyer recognized an opportunity to earn a 625 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,280 Speaker 1: living without having to pick cotton or work in the fields. 626 00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,800 Speaker 1: In abundance of wild game and Collyer's knowledge of the 627 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:15,399 Speaker 1: vast wilderness made him well suited for an occupation as 628 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 1: a professional hunter. Mississippi whitetailed deer was a prime source 629 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:22,239 Speaker 1: of meat, and it was plentiful and considered an easy kill. 630 00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,359 Speaker 1: Dear meat was not as much in demand as the 631 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,600 Speaker 1: meat of the black bear. Deer were small and sold 632 00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:31,880 Speaker 1: for only thirty cents per pound. Field dressed, a fully 633 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,920 Speaker 1: grown bear could earn a hunter sixty dollars or more. 634 00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:41,560 Speaker 1: End of quote. That's some major money. Here's some more 635 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,760 Speaker 1: from the book quote. With the passing of years, Holt 636 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: Collyer's reputation as a bear hunter grew, until by the 637 00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 1: turn of the century that had reached heroic proportions, at 638 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:55,600 Speaker 1: least on a local level. He averaged about a hundred 639 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: and twenty kills the season and kept a book count 640 00:37:58,640 --> 00:38:01,880 Speaker 1: of more than kills into the book burned in his 641 00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:07,359 Speaker 1: brother Marshall's house in Collier. Earned more than nine in 642 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:09,640 Speaker 1: one season, and was known to have as much as 643 00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:13,279 Speaker 1: two thousand dollars in his possession at one time. These 644 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 1: were phenomenal amounts of money for a black man in 645 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:19,360 Speaker 1: the Mississippi Delta, and more than most people earned in 646 00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,480 Speaker 1: a year. When not on the hunt, Callier led what 647 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:27,480 Speaker 1: could easily be described as a cavalier lifestyle. He indulged 648 00:38:27,560 --> 00:38:31,440 Speaker 1: in the one vice that haunted him his entire life, gambling. 649 00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:36,120 Speaker 1: It is apparently from several sources that he never drank alcohol. 650 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,800 Speaker 1: At the annual spring fairs, he played poker and pharaoh, 651 00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:43,480 Speaker 1: and wagered heavily on horse races. In the summer, he 652 00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 1: enjoyed playing baseball in In eighteen seventy seven, he financed 653 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 1: the team that received local attention. It was named Holt 654 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 1: Collier's Club from Deer Creek. Following the hunting season, every year, 655 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,560 Speaker 1: Callier traveled in any direction and to any destination that 656 00:38:59,640 --> 00:39:03,040 Speaker 1: suited him. He sometimes went to West Texas and followed 657 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:06,239 Speaker 1: the spring fairs, he went south to the racetracks and 658 00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 1: fairs of Louisiana. Most years he would return home penniless. 659 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,440 Speaker 1: His friends urged him to save money, settled down, and 660 00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,759 Speaker 1: buy some property for a house. Collier did not heed 661 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,120 Speaker 1: their warnings. He preferred to live in the swamp or 662 00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:23,680 Speaker 1: with friends while story in his meager belongings at the 663 00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:26,440 Speaker 1: Greenville Stable and at the home of his brother Marshall. 664 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:30,960 Speaker 1: The spring immediately Following his most successful years, Collyer was 665 00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:34,880 Speaker 1: wealthy by Delta standards, With two thousand dollars in his pocket. 666 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:38,879 Speaker 1: He went north to follow the seasonal races and local fairs, 667 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 1: much in the same manner as he had done with 668 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:45,640 Speaker 1: Howel Hinds in the prosperous years before the war. Collyer 669 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 1: was confident that he knew horses and could pick the winners. 670 00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:52,040 Speaker 1: He took the train north, but soon discovered that a 671 00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:56,239 Speaker 1: free African American with cash had different appeal to the 672 00:39:56,280 --> 00:40:00,839 Speaker 1: northern philanthropists. He fell victim to the experience gamblers, who 673 00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:03,799 Speaker 1: stripped him clean, and he had to telegraph home for 674 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 1: railroad fare. This routine was an annual ritual for Collier. Quote. 675 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,160 Speaker 1: In the spring, I'd go away and follow the races, 676 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,880 Speaker 1: same as I used to St. Louis and Saratoga and 677 00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,560 Speaker 1: New Orleans and way out in Texas, taken in the fars. 678 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: Then in the fall, I'd come home and get my 679 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: dogs together and hit the cane brake again. And I 680 00:40:27,719 --> 00:40:30,880 Speaker 1: just naturally loved a horse and love to hunt bears. 681 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: Didn't do nothing except hunt. End of quote. The yearly 682 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,920 Speaker 1: loss of his hard earned money had little effect on 683 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:43,799 Speaker 1: the unregimented sportsman. It was not his desire to be domesticated, 684 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 1: and he had little used for money in the swamp. 685 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:50,400 Speaker 1: His life revolved around his dogs to hunt and his 686 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:55,239 Speaker 1: frolicking around end of quote. And an article, Holt was 687 00:40:55,400 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 1: later quoted as saying, quote, money don't buy nothing in 688 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: the cane bread makes know how a man's dog don't 689 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:07,160 Speaker 1: care whether he's rich or poor. End of quote. That's 690 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,319 Speaker 1: a pretty philosophical statement. And in this we learned a 691 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,880 Speaker 1: lot about Holt, but I'm probably most surprised that he 692 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 1: had a baseball team. Were you expecting that anybody that 693 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:20,920 Speaker 1: is hunting bear with hounds is going to be a houndsman. 694 00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:24,239 Speaker 1: And here's something that he said about his hounds that 695 00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:28,359 Speaker 1: confirms it. Quote My dogs would fight a bear three 696 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:32,319 Speaker 1: or four days and nights until they almost starved to death, 697 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: waiting for me to come. Often found him the third 698 00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,719 Speaker 1: or fourth day, tree in or fight me and them 699 00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:40,760 Speaker 1: both has lived off of raw meat and not cared 700 00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: whether twere cooked or not. End of quote. Holt believed 701 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:48,279 Speaker 1: his dogs were the best that ever lived, and that's 702 00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,520 Speaker 1: what a good houndsman is supposed to think. Here's an 703 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:56,759 Speaker 1: excerpt for Miners Book on Bear Dogs. Quote. A successful 704 00:41:56,800 --> 00:41:59,880 Speaker 1: bear hunter relied heavily on his pack of mixed breed 705 00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:03,360 Speaker 1: dogs to chase in corner the bruin. It is said 706 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:07,439 Speaker 1: that a bear dog belongs to no particular breed, that 707 00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 1: he is an accident, and that of a large number 708 00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:14,640 Speaker 1: of such animals, only one might be found that takes 709 00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,640 Speaker 1: to a bear hold. Collyer once described Mandy the most 710 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,000 Speaker 1: reliable dog he ever owned. She had been badly cut 711 00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,640 Speaker 1: by bear once, and afterwards she would hunt only deer wildcat. 712 00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,359 Speaker 1: But when old Mandy would come in and got right 713 00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,560 Speaker 1: between my legs, I knowed it was a bear. No mistake. 714 00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,360 Speaker 1: Mandy never guessed wrong about a bear, not one time. 715 00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,719 Speaker 1: James Gordon explained that there were dogs of varying sizes 716 00:42:39,760 --> 00:42:43,319 Speaker 1: in each pack. A few rough haired terriers, active and 717 00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,360 Speaker 1: plucky that can fight close to the bruins, nose and 718 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:50,080 Speaker 1: dodge under the cane when pursued, some medium sized dogs 719 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,000 Speaker 1: to fight on all sides, and a few large active 720 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,799 Speaker 1: curs to pinch his hind quarters when he charges in 721 00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,240 Speaker 1: front or crosses an opening in the woods. End of quote. 722 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,600 Speaker 1: That's some incredible stuff, and it's really interesting to me. 723 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:08,040 Speaker 1: To see the heritage of hunting with hounds that there 724 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:12,640 Speaker 1: is in Mississippi and all throughout the Delta. Here's minor 725 00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:18,760 Speaker 1: with more on holtz hunting career. Eighteen seventy to nineteen 726 00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:24,000 Speaker 1: o two is thirty two years. It's Holt is credited 727 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:27,080 Speaker 1: with having killed over three thousand bear during that time 728 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:30,480 Speaker 1: on his hunting exploits. Now, I came up with the 729 00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:33,400 Speaker 1: line that's more than Daniel Bone and David Crockett combined. 730 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,359 Speaker 1: I think I'm on target there. I may not be right, 731 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,239 Speaker 1: but I think I'm on target because Daniel Boney and 732 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:41,600 Speaker 1: David Crowdy, if you read their biographies and what they're 733 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:43,120 Speaker 1: not in the woods as much as only he had 734 00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:46,239 Speaker 1: thirty two continuous years in the woods, and it was 735 00:43:46,320 --> 00:43:49,640 Speaker 1: well documented in the sense that the whole capital ledger 736 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,000 Speaker 1: at his brother's stable he ended up getting burned up. 737 00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:55,200 Speaker 1: So we don't have it, but well he I think 738 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:57,480 Speaker 1: that's an important fact that he there was a ledger 739 00:43:57,800 --> 00:44:02,840 Speaker 1: that had twenty one bears when he got burned. But 740 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,880 Speaker 1: I can give him the three thousand counting without any 741 00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:10,320 Speaker 1: question because Theodore Roosevelt wrote about this hunt. He gave 742 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:14,040 Speaker 1: who call your credit with having killed over three thousand bear. 743 00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:15,920 Speaker 1: He gave him a credit, and I'm not gonna take 744 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:19,279 Speaker 1: it away from him. Holt had a long career as 745 00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:22,719 Speaker 1: a market bear hunter, but rarely do things stay the 746 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,200 Speaker 1: same when you're dealing with natural systems and people. From 747 00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:30,120 Speaker 1: eighteen seventy to about eighteen ninety, bears were plentiful, and 748 00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:33,640 Speaker 1: he sold the meat, hides and bear grease and made 749 00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,200 Speaker 1: some really good money doing it. However, by eighteen ninety 750 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:41,319 Speaker 1: the land was being developed, bear numbers dwindled and they 751 00:44:41,320 --> 00:44:45,360 Speaker 1: only remained in the remotest regions of Mississippi. Market hunting 752 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,520 Speaker 1: and habitat loss were significant for the black bear, and 753 00:44:48,560 --> 00:44:51,600 Speaker 1: it's interesting that the same thing roughly in the same 754 00:44:51,640 --> 00:44:56,759 Speaker 1: time period was happening in Arkansas. His hunting had to change. 755 00:44:57,239 --> 00:45:00,680 Speaker 1: It's also interesting and sad to me to see the 756 00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:04,920 Speaker 1: similar trend with many great American hunters like Daniel Boone 757 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:08,719 Speaker 1: and Holt. These guys start with a baseline of robust 758 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,719 Speaker 1: game populations like dB and Kentucky, but by the time 759 00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,520 Speaker 1: they're old, the game is scarce. I wonder if Holt 760 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:20,080 Speaker 1: was sad about the demise of the bear. I'm certain 761 00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,160 Speaker 1: that he was. This was the old order of North 762 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:27,600 Speaker 1: American hunting before Theodore Roosevelt and many others helped usher 763 00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:30,359 Speaker 1: in what we now know as the North American model 764 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:35,480 Speaker 1: of wildlife conservation, which has been massively successful for managing 765 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:41,200 Speaker 1: big game populations and preserving habitat. I'm certain Roosevelt's time 766 00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:44,959 Speaker 1: in the Delta with dwindling bear population pushed his then 767 00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:50,040 Speaker 1: radical ideology about conservation forward, and I'm very glad that 768 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:54,319 Speaker 1: it did. Maybe Holt had an influence on him. I 769 00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,560 Speaker 1: bet he did. Holt was good at making things work, 770 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,920 Speaker 1: so he shifted his market hunting business to a sport 771 00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,719 Speaker 1: hunting outfitting service which didn't take as many bears to 772 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:09,160 Speaker 1: make a living. Here's Jonathan with an interesting aspect of 773 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:13,760 Speaker 1: using black guides in the South after the Civil War. Again, 774 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:17,000 Speaker 1: he's meat hunting, scouting, all that kind of stuff, doing 775 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,160 Speaker 1: this work that he's you know, got years and years 776 00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:21,640 Speaker 1: in and has built this reputation as being very good 777 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,040 Speaker 1: at and that leads him to becoming like a professional 778 00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:30,239 Speaker 1: hunting guide. Especially you know in the postbellum where there 779 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,799 Speaker 1: was this there was this kind of strange dichotomy of 780 00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:37,160 Speaker 1: like residents of the North coming down specifically for hunting, recreation, 781 00:46:37,200 --> 00:46:40,400 Speaker 1: and specifically to be guided by black guides, because that 782 00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,440 Speaker 1: was kind of part of the narrative and the story 783 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:46,480 Speaker 1: and the quote unquote romance of the Southern experience. But 784 00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:51,120 Speaker 1: you know, he ends up doing well for himself. Before 785 00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:54,320 Speaker 1: we get further, let's fill in some gaps about Holt's 786 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:58,359 Speaker 1: personal life. In eighteen eighty, when Holt was thirty four 787 00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:02,880 Speaker 1: years old, he was recorded as being married to Rose Collier. 788 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,799 Speaker 1: Very little is recorded about their relationship, but they did 789 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:11,480 Speaker 1: have three children together, Effie, Maggie, and Coley. Not much 790 00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,000 Speaker 1: is known about this family, but by eighteen ninety, Holt 791 00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,840 Speaker 1: wasn't with Rose anymore, and he was married to Maggie Phillips, 792 00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,360 Speaker 1: also of which not much is known, but she wouldn't 793 00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,480 Speaker 1: be his last wife. There was a divorce. In a 794 00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:28,480 Speaker 1: nineteen old four when Holt was sixty eight years old, 795 00:47:28,719 --> 00:47:32,480 Speaker 1: he married twenty six year old Francis Parker. She is 796 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:36,520 Speaker 1: recorded by those who record stuff like this as having 797 00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:41,880 Speaker 1: exceptional beauty. Anyhow, Holt would remain married to this woman 798 00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:45,839 Speaker 1: until her death in nineteen thirty one at the age 799 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,480 Speaker 1: of forty four. And in the next episode, I'll tell 800 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:53,480 Speaker 1: you how many children Holt Callier had you'll be surprised. 801 00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:57,439 Speaker 1: But there we go again, getting ahead of ourselves. And yep, 802 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:01,000 Speaker 1: it's stressing me out. We're still in the bear hunting 803 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:05,520 Speaker 1: era of Holt's life. Here's Hank telling the time Hole 804 00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:10,680 Speaker 1: almost died in a log while bear hunting. Now, didn't 805 00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,520 Speaker 1: mind to tell you about the time the whole Hormole 806 00:48:12,680 --> 00:48:15,520 Speaker 1: died up in the tree. Hole was on a hunt 807 00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,600 Speaker 1: with several of his buddies. He always hunted with his friends, 808 00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:21,719 Speaker 1: and he was chasing a bear and a bar run up. 809 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,440 Speaker 1: He may have already gotten on the bear with his knife, 810 00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:29,040 Speaker 1: and I think the bear broke loose and ran up 811 00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,440 Speaker 1: in a huge hollow tree that was falling down. And 812 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:34,759 Speaker 1: a lot of time lightning will strike these trees and 813 00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:37,960 Speaker 1: there will be a big open cavity down the middle 814 00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,360 Speaker 1: of the tree. And the tree had fallen down, and 815 00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,120 Speaker 1: the bear ran up in that hole in that tree. 816 00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:46,960 Speaker 1: When the dogs went up in there were holding ran 817 00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,200 Speaker 1: up in and and the boar was killing his dogs. 818 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,320 Speaker 1: So Hold goes up in there pulling his dogs out. 819 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:58,799 Speaker 1: When the bear decides enough of this, he's coming out 820 00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:04,480 Speaker 1: that tree, so he runs by Hold and down. Yet 821 00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,480 Speaker 1: the lord of tree laying on the ground, and Hold 822 00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:09,319 Speaker 1: goes up in there to get his dogs out, and 823 00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:11,640 Speaker 1: the bad aside. He's gonna come out well in the 824 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:15,240 Speaker 1: bad passes Hope as holder, jugging him with his knife 825 00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,040 Speaker 1: and then gets a little bit halfway to the opening 826 00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:23,480 Speaker 1: and lazying. Then dies and it's hot and he begins 827 00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,840 Speaker 1: swelling up. What Holk can't get out? Then no, not 828 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:33,560 Speaker 1: Hold the with his dog. It's the dogs. The dogs out, 829 00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:37,400 Speaker 1: and the bath come to buy and the bad dies 830 00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,840 Speaker 1: between Hold and the end of the tree. When the 831 00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:44,960 Speaker 1: Bath starts swelling up, Hope can't push him two hundred 832 00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:48,279 Speaker 1: pound baar out a hold of the tree. He'd been 833 00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,160 Speaker 1: to die and court Holds had gotten mauled coming by 834 00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:56,560 Speaker 1: with Thank goodness, some of his guys was close by 835 00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,239 Speaker 1: enough to try to figure out where Hold was and 836 00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:03,279 Speaker 1: either heard the dogs or found the dogs and realized 837 00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:05,600 Speaker 1: that that ball was up in that tree and they 838 00:50:05,719 --> 00:50:10,359 Speaker 1: pulled it about and then he'll come home. Yeah, would 839 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,239 Speaker 1: have been no way to get out. Holt said that 840 00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:17,000 Speaker 1: that was the most dangerous moment in hunting that he 841 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:21,120 Speaker 1: could recall in his life. He said that he thought 842 00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,400 Speaker 1: perhaps it would have been in the dark but maybe 843 00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,200 Speaker 1: he could have cut the bear up piece by piece 844 00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:33,479 Speaker 1: and moved it behind him. Yeah. I mean, now that's 845 00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:36,640 Speaker 1: a wild story and would have been a harrowing way 846 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:40,080 Speaker 1: to die. Holt could have been on Metaters, camp Fire Stories, 847 00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,040 Speaker 1: Close Calls audio book. You should check that out. I 848 00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,440 Speaker 1: tell a story about almost drowning, but that's not what 849 00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:50,920 Speaker 1: we're talking about. We've covered some serious ground on this episode. 850 00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,200 Speaker 1: We've learned a lot about holtz life from age twenty 851 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:58,640 Speaker 1: to age sixty four, but we still haven't talked about 852 00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,640 Speaker 1: the most famous portion of his life, when he got 853 00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:05,120 Speaker 1: at Theodore Roosevelt. But that's coming in part three. As 854 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:09,440 Speaker 1: we close, I want to ask Minor about his motivation 855 00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:13,320 Speaker 1: for writing this book about Wholt Collier. He gave a 856 00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:17,440 Speaker 1: compelling answer, so I know, just from talking with you, 857 00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,800 Speaker 1: like your research on Holt is fueled from a respect 858 00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:25,000 Speaker 1: of this man that you never knew. But you you 859 00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,319 Speaker 1: can answer your question. I know where you're going. Why, 860 00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:30,680 Speaker 1: what does this mean to you? And why do you 861 00:51:31,320 --> 00:51:34,920 Speaker 1: I grew I grew up in Marshall County, Mississippi, working 862 00:51:35,000 --> 00:51:38,320 Speaker 1: on a farm. This is a nineteen fifties and sixties 863 00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:41,640 Speaker 1: during the Civil rights era and I knew a lot 864 00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:45,600 Speaker 1: of really proud black men that I worked with. They 865 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:47,640 Speaker 1: didn't have much education, but they had a lot of 866 00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:49,560 Speaker 1: pride and they had a lot of intelligence. And I 867 00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:52,000 Speaker 1: looked up to him and I respected him. I can 868 00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:56,920 Speaker 1: name you a ton of them, Roosevelt Yarboro, Elvis McKinney, 869 00:51:57,320 --> 00:52:02,040 Speaker 1: Buddy Young, Aaron Jones. These people are most have been 870 00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:04,800 Speaker 1: dead forty years. It was almost like they had this 871 00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:09,279 Speaker 1: story and son told and uh, I just I just 872 00:52:10,440 --> 00:52:15,040 Speaker 1: Nat Brooks, who's who's was to Holly Springs, what whole 873 00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,560 Speaker 1: car he was to Greenville. But you know, Jim Crow 874 00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,200 Speaker 1: just held these people back. He just held him back. 875 00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,920 Speaker 1: And I just I just always had this misrespect for him. 876 00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:27,680 Speaker 1: They were all poor, but they are all proud. And 877 00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,000 Speaker 1: when I had the opportunity when I found this, and 878 00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:31,960 Speaker 1: I thought, oh my gosh, you know, here's the guy 879 00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:35,200 Speaker 1: who you know, he had money in his lifetime and 880 00:52:35,880 --> 00:52:37,880 Speaker 1: in his elder life, he didn't have much money, but 881 00:52:37,880 --> 00:52:39,400 Speaker 1: he had a lot of respect for the community. And 882 00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:42,320 Speaker 1: these people I'm talking about had respect from the community. 883 00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:46,440 Speaker 1: But because of the where we lived and in the climate, 884 00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:49,920 Speaker 1: racial climate, that they just never could really prosper and 885 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,000 Speaker 1: their story needed to be told. And when I had 886 00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:53,800 Speaker 1: an opportunity to tell a whole car your story, I 887 00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,520 Speaker 1: kind of I kind of took that which I had 888 00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:59,919 Speaker 1: been raised with as a child. I mean Lewis John 889 00:53:00,640 --> 00:53:03,440 Speaker 1: worked with me. We used to get up cattle together, 890 00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,319 Speaker 1: we mended fences together. I spent as much time with him. 891 00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:10,400 Speaker 1: I knew his philosophy, and I loved the man. He 892 00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,680 Speaker 1: died in his house fire, you know his his story 893 00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:17,279 Speaker 1: has never been told, but uh, I felt I were 894 00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:19,719 Speaker 1: with over in Warren County. One of the smartest guys 895 00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:23,040 Speaker 1: I ever knew, crippled with polio. The name was Jesse. 896 00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:25,560 Speaker 1: I don't even know his last night. That's all I 897 00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:28,200 Speaker 1: ever knew was Jesse. But he took a part of 898 00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:31,520 Speaker 1: Caterpillar D four and put it back together, and I helped. 899 00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,239 Speaker 1: I was just a kid helping him. I was handing 900 00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:36,200 Speaker 1: him to the wrench. You know, I'll tell the stories 901 00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:37,960 Speaker 1: way off targets not it has nothing to do with 902 00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:39,680 Speaker 1: whole carry. But this guy, Jesse, it's one of the 903 00:53:39,719 --> 00:53:45,120 Speaker 1: funniest stories. We're over in Warren County Uncle's farm. Uncle says, money, 904 00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:47,680 Speaker 1: You're gonna be Jesse's helper for the next few days 905 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:50,640 Speaker 1: he's gonna fix his Caterpillo D six. We didn't know 906 00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:52,439 Speaker 1: what I didn't know what's wrong with it. We tore 907 00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:54,800 Speaker 1: that motor all the way down, put it back together. 908 00:53:55,160 --> 00:53:57,200 Speaker 1: He said, get up there and push it button, push 909 00:53:57,280 --> 00:54:01,160 Speaker 1: that butt, startup. Ran like a sewing machine. And so 910 00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:04,520 Speaker 1: my uncle's out tending to other business and I wish sitting. 911 00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:06,560 Speaker 1: They're putting tools up. And I said, wait a minute, Jesse, 912 00:54:06,719 --> 00:54:08,440 Speaker 1: And I looked down there as a bucket and it's 913 00:54:08,480 --> 00:54:10,360 Speaker 1: full of nuts and boats and come out of that 914 00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,200 Speaker 1: motor hadn't been put back. I mean, it's three or 915 00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:15,680 Speaker 1: four pounds of these nuts and bolts. And I said, Jesse, 916 00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:17,879 Speaker 1: wait a minute, you can't. We gotta put we gotta 917 00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:19,879 Speaker 1: put put this stuff back in this motor. You can't, 918 00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:22,600 Speaker 1: He says, you put that down. I don't saying the uncle, 919 00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:25,440 Speaker 1: but I just save your uncle five thousand dollars for 920 00:54:25,520 --> 00:54:28,640 Speaker 1: the repairing, and pucket over in Jackson with a charge 921 00:54:28,680 --> 00:54:30,480 Speaker 1: in five thousand dollars to make the repair. And then 922 00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:34,400 Speaker 1: I had two buckets of boats. And when he said that, 923 00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:36,239 Speaker 1: I had two bug of the bolts. I thought to myself, 924 00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:41,479 Speaker 1: now that's that's an intelligent man. The story of Halt 925 00:54:41,560 --> 00:54:45,120 Speaker 1: Collier is one of the most intriguing American stories I've 926 00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:48,279 Speaker 1: ever heard. It's the tale of a man overcoming a 927 00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:52,520 Speaker 1: broken system designed to keep him down and him finding 928 00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:57,160 Speaker 1: a way against all odds to thrive. It's an inspiring story, 929 00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:01,600 Speaker 1: a challenging story, a tragic story, but also a story 930 00:55:01,719 --> 00:55:05,400 Speaker 1: we're celebrating. Like I said in the beginning, I doubt 931 00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:08,840 Speaker 1: any of us will ever forget who Holt Call Your is. 932 00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:11,200 Speaker 1: And we haven't even got to the best part of 933 00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:15,120 Speaker 1: his life. And our third episode will cover his life 934 00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:18,240 Speaker 1: from age sixty four to his death at age ninety 935 00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:22,840 Speaker 1: and nineteen thirty six. What an incredible life, and I 936 00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:26,840 Speaker 1: feel honored to even be able to tell his story. 937 00:55:28,880 --> 00:55:31,560 Speaker 1: I can't thank you enough for listening to Bear Greece. 938 00:55:32,120 --> 00:55:34,879 Speaker 1: I spoke with Minor Ferris Buchanan and he says he's 939 00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:38,120 Speaker 1: got some pulp Call Your book still available to be 940 00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:44,120 Speaker 1: ordered directly from his website Www. Holt Call Your dot com. 941 00:55:44,680 --> 00:55:47,799 Speaker 1: They're super expensive on Amazon, but you can get them 942 00:55:47,880 --> 00:55:52,839 Speaker 1: directly from Minor at that website. Check that out, and hey, 943 00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:55,719 Speaker 1: do me a favor. Make a social media post this 944 00:55:55,840 --> 00:55:59,160 Speaker 1: week about this podcast. Series, leave us a review, and 945 00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:15,640 Speaker 1: share the Beargrease podcast with a friend. M