WEBVTT - Superintendent Series: Michael Vessely on Restoring Culver Academies Golf Course 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:04.320 Welcome back to another edition of the Frida Egg podcast 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:08.840 and our Superintendent series. This podcast is brought to you 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.399 by Toro. Those big agricultural tractors you see working on 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:17.919 golf courses with their clutch and complicated lever pulling sequences. 0:00:18.040 --> 0:00:21.200 In a turf maintenance application, they're like stepping onto the 0:00:21.239 --> 0:00:23.880 first tea not knowing which swing you have that day. 0:00:24.320 --> 0:00:28.120 I think we've all been there. Toro's new Outcross nine 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:31.480 thousand and sixty can do everything those clunky tractors can, 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.880 but with tons less stress on the operator and most 0:00:34.880 --> 0:00:40.640 importantly on the turf. With automotive controls and programmable attachment parameters, 0:00:40.800 --> 0:00:43.760 even rookies on the crew can be trusted with air raiding, 0:00:44.000 --> 0:00:48.879 top dressing, mowing grass, loading sand, and removing snow from 0:00:48.960 --> 0:00:52.159 around the clubhouse in the winter. Unfortunately, it is that 0:00:52.280 --> 0:00:56.760 time again for us northern folk. The Toro Outcross nine 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.400 thousand and sixties like having all of your best golf 0:00:59.400 --> 0:01:04.200 shots say ready for use each and every round. Follow 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:07.000 at Toro Golf on Twitter and reach out to your 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:12.480 local Toro distributor to schedule a demo. This episode of 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:18.759 our Superintendent series features Culver military Academy superintendent Michael Vessely. 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:23.240 Michael has been at Culver a few years now. It's 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:28.760 a little known nine hole course in central Indiana, but 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:31.240 it is one of the best nine hole courses in 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:35.560 the world. Very few people know about it. The play 0:01:35.640 --> 0:01:39.200 is pretty restricted. Only people that can really play it 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:45.679 are alumni, faculty, and students at Culver. Michael has been 0:01:45.720 --> 0:01:48.560 working on this Langford Moreau course for a few years 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:52.480 and recently, in talking to one of his crew members, 0:01:52.720 --> 0:01:57.120 he learned about some old tea boxes. So Culver was 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:01.160 originally planned for twenty seven holes by langor Moreau, but 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:04.160 you know, they built nine, like they did with many 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:09.880 courses back then. And now this has led Michael on 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:13.919 a little bit of a historical deep dive looking for 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.640 remnants of the other holes that could have possibly accompanied 0:02:17.639 --> 0:02:20.679 these teas. So I went out. It's it's about two 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:24.080 hours from Chicago, and Michael and I walked around the 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:29.080 woods for a couple hours looking for greens teas. Found 0:02:29.120 --> 0:02:32.600 something that might look might look like a green. We'll see, 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:35.520 we'll see if we can find out more in the future. 0:02:35.520 --> 0:02:39.880 But Michael, we talked about his career as well as 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:45.480 Langford Moreau maintaining Culver and the historical dive that he's 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:49.800 on and and what he's uncovering and the whole process. So, 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:54.760 without further ado, here's Michael Vesily and I hope everybody 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:58.560 had a happy and safe holidays. I miss the green 0:02:58.600 --> 0:03:01.040 for example. I'm already up set. When I find my 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.200 ball in the bunker, I'm really upset. And when I 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:03.680 find my. 0:03:03.680 --> 0:03:06.520 Ball in a brid egg Friday egg, the dreaded Frida 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:09.240 egg Frida, egg Frida, egg bri egg Frida egg bride 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:11.200 egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off. 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:41.280 Of the hump. What when you were a kid, what 0:03:41.640 --> 0:03:43.600 subjects were your best at in school? 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:51.880 Uh? Math for sure, and uh that's probably my best one. 0:03:53.160 --> 0:03:55.040 Uh and science as well. 0:03:55.360 --> 0:04:00.080 Science, Yeah that makes sense for a Yeah, yeah, we 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:01.560 were you good at history? 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:07.720 Uh? I was interested in history for sure and still 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:12.040 still am. But uh yeah, I guess it wasn't one 0:04:12.080 --> 0:04:15.640 of my best subjects, but it interests. 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:19.240 Me now now you find yourself immersed in a historical 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:19.760 deep dive. 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:22.720 Correct, Yeah, it's it's been interesting. 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:30.279 So you're at Culvert. It's a famous military school, world 0:04:30.400 --> 0:04:34.159 renowned and it has nine hole golf course. Lang for 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:39.000 Moreau that relatively untouched, pretty much untouched except for a 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:43.600 couple of things, maybe restored. You came in mid restoration. 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:47.360 But tell us a little bit about the last couple 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:50.520 of weeks and what's how you've gotten on. You've found 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:51.400 some tea boxes. 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:54.680 Yeah, the last couple of weeks, like I said, have 0:04:54.720 --> 0:04:58.960 been interesting. I was we were out cutting up a 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:02.680 tree that had blown over, and there's a gentleman that 0:05:02.760 --> 0:05:06.640 works here that's been employed with the Academy for thirty 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:11.279 five years, and he just nonchalantly mentions there was a 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:16.920 tea box underneath our current maintenance building. And you know, 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:19.960 I looked at him puzzled, like you know what you 0:05:20.080 --> 0:05:22.679 talk about? And he's like, there was a tea box. 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:25.240 I used to mow until they built the new maintenance building, 0:05:25.320 --> 0:05:28.320 along with a few others that are out on the property, 0:05:30.080 --> 0:05:37.440 which got me to looking into what else was out there. 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:43.960 And I've recently started digging into the old it's called 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:47.920 the Vedet. It was the Culvert Academy publication that's been 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:52.960 ongoing since the late eighteen hundreds, and just looking at 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:56.520 articles to see if there were other holes that were 0:05:56.560 --> 0:06:02.239 built or what else is out there? So it's taken 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:04.360 me on an interesting trip so far. 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:08.080 Yeah, it was the length from a Roe plan. They 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:14.039 designed twenty seven holes for the military Academy. It's long 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:17.000 been believed that they only built the nine correct, and 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:20.839 so you've been diving in would have been the interesting 0:06:20.839 --> 0:06:23.600 I mean, one of the beautiful things with it being 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:24.560 in a. 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.880 School is the paper exactly. 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:30.800 Not a lot of courses had this their own like 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:36.960 essentially publication, right right, So you've started to read what 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:40.359 what are some interesting things that you've found that maybe 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:42.599 push you one way or push you the other way. 0:06:42.760 --> 0:06:46.960 Yeah, so I've started I've gotten to as early as 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:53.480 nineteen twenty one where golf was becoming popular in this area. 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:57.719 According to the paper, it was the new sport, the 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:01.479 new sport from Europe, and uh was was catching on. 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.159 They called it. I've read a few articles where they 0:07:04.200 --> 0:07:07.520 called it the golf bug was catching on and uh 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:11.560 and Culver is proud of is proud of its athletic 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:16.080 prowess and and uh uh you know, fielding a lot 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:20.480 of a lot of sports and athletics, and they uh 0:07:21.160 --> 0:07:26.840 wanted to get into golf. So there was, uh, there 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.440 was a lot of talking in early twenties. Obviously of 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:34.640 of a golf course, they used the Max and Cookie 0:07:35.560 --> 0:07:39.680 UH country clubs what it was called UH. Then it 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:42.640 seemed like from what I've read, they used that to 0:07:42.720 --> 0:07:46.160 play golf UH from time to time, and I wasn't 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:48.920 a set schedule or anything. They just would call it 0:07:49.120 --> 0:07:52.800 local schools. They even played Notre Dame for many years, 0:07:52.840 --> 0:08:00.320 the university the university UH. After later on on they 0:08:00.320 --> 0:08:02.600 would just play the freshman Notre Dame team, but they 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:06.720 played the university Notre Dame golf team. They played Valparaiso 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:13.120 University golf team, I've read. So it was just, you know, 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:15.280 the sport was catching on, I think, and it just 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:18.440 it grew and grew and and Culver always wanted the 0:08:18.480 --> 0:08:23.600 finest for their cadets. And that's where the Culver family 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:27.240 decided to build the golf course. I mentioned to you 0:08:27.320 --> 0:08:32.640 that they found three firms that they that were drawing 0:08:32.679 --> 0:08:35.199 up plans for the course. Now I've yet to find 0:08:35.200 --> 0:08:38.440 out who the other two firms were. Obviously one of 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:44.240 them had to have been Langford and Moreau. So it's 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:49.080 that was an interesting tibit I found. The other thing 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:51.200 was there there was there's not a lot of mention 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:57.000 of extra holes after nineteen twenty four until you get 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.560 to nineteen thirty two where there was mention in an 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:02.640 article that they wanted to expand the course to an 0:09:02.640 --> 0:09:06.599 eighteen whole course. So originally twenty seven. 0:09:06.600 --> 0:09:10.439 The time to considering, yeah, eighteen expansion right. 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:14.360 Right, because you know, figure the depression. I know enrollment 0:09:14.440 --> 0:09:19.760 was down after the depression, but you know for there 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:22.559 there was there's a mention in an article of expanding 0:09:22.559 --> 0:09:27.480 it then. So you know, those those are probably the 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.320 most interesting things I found so far. Now I'm just 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:33.080 getting into it so that there's a long way to 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:37.319 go to figure out where these tea boxes came from, 0:09:37.480 --> 0:09:42.360 why they're here, and if anything else was ever done. 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:46.360 Obviously the golf community it I think one of the 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:49.359 amazing things that Twitter has done is for your profession, 0:09:49.480 --> 0:09:52.200 is that it connects you with all these different people. 0:09:53.120 --> 0:09:58.000 Talk about a little bit how Twitter and the ability 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:01.960 to you know, you had conversations with all these people 0:10:02.000 --> 0:10:04.200 that have been either that can relate to this or 0:10:04.320 --> 0:10:07.640 lend expertise in different areas for this to talk a 0:10:07.720 --> 0:10:10.240 little bit about you know, who you've connected with and 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:13.240 where how they've kind of helped you push you into 0:10:13.400 --> 0:10:17.520 certain directions on your kind of history hunt here. 0:10:17.600 --> 0:10:20.719 Yeah. Well, Twitter has been great for me personally for 0:10:21.320 --> 0:10:26.440 agonomic reasons. First, I was not, you know, an architect 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:31.520 junkie before I came here. I was more into turf 0:10:32.440 --> 0:10:36.840 than architecture until I saw this place and it piqued 0:10:36.840 --> 0:10:40.760 my interest. And obviously being here, a lot of people 0:10:40.800 --> 0:10:47.080 have in that arena have contacted me because they're interested 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:50.559 in culver. So it has lent itself to a pretty 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:55.320 big network of architect fans and people who are well 0:10:55.320 --> 0:10:58.439 more equipped at digging into history than I have. Now 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:02.560 I have connected with with Sean Tolley at Metal Club 0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:07.760 via Twitter, uh and then we we spent five days 0:11:07.920 --> 0:11:13.120 at a it was called the Superintendent's Retreat Mindfulness Retreat. 0:11:13.320 --> 0:11:16.840 It was at Prince Edward Island and UH in Canada, 0:11:17.480 --> 0:11:19.600 and him and I were both selected. So I was 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:22.040 able to spend four or five days with Sean in 0:11:22.080 --> 0:11:26.200 a beautiful setting and and we we talked a lot, uh, 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:28.839 not just about golf, but a lot of things. But 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:33.560 you know, when one evening he broke out his his 0:11:33.640 --> 0:11:37.320 hard drive with all his findings he had, which was 0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:41.200 just incredible, but since in the last couple of weeks, Uh, 0:11:41.720 --> 0:11:45.839 you know, interest has perked up in in what I'm 0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:48.360 finding out here, and we had a we had a 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:53.040 very good conversation uh this past weekend. Uh. He's he's 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:56.440 coaching me on on how to do things and where 0:11:56.480 --> 0:11:59.400 to do things and where to look, and so it's 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:03.199 been he's been a great asset in this journey so far. 0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:07.640 What type of stuff has he been recommending, because obviously 0:12:07.679 --> 0:12:11.280 you're at the beginning of this, like, you know, what 0:12:11.360 --> 0:12:15.280 type of you know, research methods was he suggesting that 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:16.280 you might not have thought of. 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:19.640 Well, Well, one good thing, as you mentioned, is we 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.920 have in archives here at the Academy, so that I'm 0:12:23.000 --> 0:12:25.880 lucky in that respect, is that I've got all these newspapers. 0:12:26.480 --> 0:12:31.520 Plus there are things over there. Communications between Culver and 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:35.439 whomever we may be looking for are over there, along 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:39.560 with photos. So the paper is a good start, and 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:42.400 then the photos and everything else that's at our museum 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.920 is going to be another deep dive. But one interesting 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:50.520 thing he mentioned was to find photographers that took pictures 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.960 back then. He has found out there a family that 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:57.559 has been in photography since the twenties and the family 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.640 has just carried it on and he would he would 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:03.720 find photos with the name of the of the family 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:07.600 at the bottom, and then he would contact the the 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:10.360 current family members and say, hey, do you have photos 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:13.880 from and uh, they at first they didn't think that 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.840 they did, and Sean showed them a picture of of 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:20.000 I think it might have been Cyprus that had their 0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:22.679 name on it. So they looked into it and sure 0:13:22.760 --> 0:13:26.720 enough they had photos of golf courses back then, back 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:30.520 in the twenties. So that that was an interesting idea 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:34.320 to find out photographers and if there's a family lineage 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:40.800 of photographers still around. And one interesting thing. The other 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:45.400 interesting thing was to go to postcard shows to find 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:48.800 people that have postcards from you know, and he's he's like, 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:51.240 you never know where it leads or where it can go. 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:55.680 I mean he's he's made connections that way. So it's 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.880 it's a it's going to be interesting. I'm looking for 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:01.959 or to dig it in a little further. 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:05.640 So next step is to get really deep into archives. 0:14:05.760 --> 0:14:09.040 Yeah, that's the next step, and you know, you get 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:12.400 track down some I mentioned IRV Nelson, who is the 0:14:12.440 --> 0:14:16.440 golf pro here in the twenties, to try and track 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:21.040 down his family lineagency. If there's children around that may 0:14:21.080 --> 0:14:25.840 have some things from from then you know, there's just 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.520 so many ways you can go. It's it'll be like 0:14:28.560 --> 0:14:29.960 I said, interesting. 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:33.840 What I mean in say you're you go down this 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:37.440 rabbit hole, like what would be you know, dream scenario 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:38.200 for you. 0:14:40.000 --> 0:14:44.040 Well, a dream scenario maybe to find a green pad maybe, 0:14:45.440 --> 0:14:48.960 But you know, I'm really not. I really haven't thought 0:14:49.000 --> 0:14:52.160 that far ahead. I just it's more of a historical 0:14:52.320 --> 0:14:58.400 thing to find out what happened when and what changed 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:01.160 and why they you know, I'm sure when I get 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.520 as I mentioned, when we get to the Second World War, 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:08.080 that's probably when things were just like you know, done. 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:11.320 But we're I'm at a point now, like I said, 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:16.360 with nineteen thirty two to the forties, you know what 0:15:16.360 --> 0:15:20.680 what transpired, So you know, more of historical reference for 0:15:20.800 --> 0:15:25.880 me now than I don't. I don't believe they'd ever 0:15:26.160 --> 0:15:30.200 expand the place or make another nine holes or anything 0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:32.680 like that. It's just more of a you know, this 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.640 is this is what I found, and you know, we're 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:37.080 finding some pretty neat things. 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:40.520 You just mentioned you weren't really into architecture. You ain't 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.560 got here, ton't know a ton about it. How how 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:47.120 is your you know, you're really into turf, how is 0:15:47.200 --> 0:15:52.840 your turf? I guess in presentation and style of maintenance 0:15:53.000 --> 0:15:55.720 changed as you've started to understand more about the history 0:15:55.840 --> 0:15:59.080 and uh and the architecture behind the golf course. 0:15:59.160 --> 0:16:02.720 Yeah, it's shame change a lot. It's made me, made 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.520 me think more about the things we're doing out here, 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:09.360 looking at more, trying to present the course in in 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:14.040 the the intent of the architect That's that's where it's changed. 0:16:14.040 --> 0:16:19.760 I've I've definitely become more minimalistic in our approach, trying 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:24.240 to use less and just just use what's here and 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:28.840 you know, maintain it to a high standard, but looking 0:16:28.880 --> 0:16:36.880 for more role looking for more playing slopes instead of 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:40.200 the you know, sixty degree flop shot to look at. 0:16:40.320 --> 0:16:44.000 You know, how can we maintain this area, firmer, How 0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:47.239 can we improve our mo lines to bring in bunkers 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:51.320 that were intended to be hazards for balls to roll into? 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:55.960 Which is that that's been this past season was was 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.240 a big goal of mine, was to try and improve 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:02.560 our mo lines to incord greate these plateaus that lang 0:17:02.640 --> 0:17:08.440 are built that are you know, just amazing plateaus that 0:17:08.440 --> 0:17:11.800 that have so many features that I want to enhance 0:17:11.840 --> 0:17:14.760 those features and just bring more of a of a 0:17:14.800 --> 0:17:18.560 ground game back to which was the intention of this 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:22.280 golf course for sure when it was built, and you 0:17:22.320 --> 0:17:24.960 can tell you can see the you can see the 0:17:25.000 --> 0:17:29.879 slopes and where balls were meant to go, so that 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:33.120 the minimalistic part and and trying to firm things up, 0:17:33.200 --> 0:17:38.240 and it has changed a lot my philosophy on on 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:39.520 turf management for sure. 0:17:40.280 --> 0:17:45.119 How have you gone obviously your nine hole course, small crew, 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:49.320 not the big world's biggest budget and uh, you know 0:17:49.400 --> 0:17:51.359 the one nice thing you don't have a ton of play, 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:56.320 But like, how have you gone about the expansions? What 0:17:56.320 --> 0:18:00.440 what strategy have you gone to achieve? Getting are with. 0:18:01.880 --> 0:18:06.080 Well, we have the nineteen thirty nine aerial which which 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:10.280 helps bring in some lines. But you know, I've I've 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:16.320 talked to a couple people, Sean Tully's been one, David Normoyle. 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:20.200 I've communicated a lot with him in the last year 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:25.359 and a half about intent of molins. How greens that 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:29.040 were built in the Golden Age were considered the head 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:33.040 of the golf hole and the approaches were the shoulders, 0:18:33.960 --> 0:18:36.680 which is why not just the neck So. 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.560 Isn't it funny how everything got necked in? 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:45.359 Yeah, smaller it is, it is, and it and it 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:50.879 definitely during the restoration they widened the approaches out immensely, 0:18:50.960 --> 0:18:55.480 but they didn't bring the bunkers in that sit front 0:18:55.880 --> 0:18:58.360 inside of the greens. So that's such a. 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:00.160 Good way to describe it. 0:19:00.280 --> 0:19:04.800 Like the shoulder when David said that it was like 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:06.880 a light went off, I'm like, I see it now. 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:10.240 And he's got like a really great way of describing 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:11.879 It's fantastic. 0:19:12.040 --> 0:19:14.639 He's like one of the best communicators. Yes ever, mat. 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:17.280 Yes, yeah, I mean every I could show you the 0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:19.520 text message. I mean it's just like he says things 0:19:19.520 --> 0:19:23.520 and I'm just like that's perfect. Yeah, that's perfect. Couldn't 0:19:23.520 --> 0:19:26.000 set any better. And like the shoulders, I mean the 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:28.640 light went off, I'm like, I see it. I saw it. 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:31.920 You know, I could drive around. I say, I see 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:34.040 what he was I see what he means when he 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:38.200 says that. And we were doing this when the US 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:42.600 Women's Open was at the Country Club of Charleston this year, 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:44.760 So we were talking during that and you could see 0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:48.200 a lot of I could visualize that from that course 0:19:49.240 --> 0:19:52.280 what he was talking about. The wide shoulders in the 0:19:52.440 --> 0:19:54.320 and the Greens were just the head of it. So 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:57.360 you want to bring you want to bring all those 0:19:57.480 --> 0:20:03.200 characteristics into the hole. Uh And as see George Waters mentions, 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:05.760 you you want you don't want to separate good shots 0:20:05.760 --> 0:20:07.840 from bad shots. You want to separate good shots from 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:11.359 great shots. So your ball will which you saw at 0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:14.200 the President's Cup, it can roll, you know, if you're 0:20:14.200 --> 0:20:16.600 off you know, a yard or two, it's going to 0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:20.040 go into a bunker, or it could roll next to 0:20:20.080 --> 0:20:22.720 the pin. I mean, it's just that that was that 0:20:22.840 --> 0:20:26.000 was my intent of changing the MOE lines around the 0:20:26.040 --> 0:20:27.520 Greens this year. 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:30.840 That President's Cup was pretty unbelievable to watch. 0:20:30.720 --> 0:20:32.560 Right, Yeah, crazy crazy good. 0:20:32.760 --> 0:20:35.480 I imagine from like a URF perspective, that was like 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:40.000 a dream to watch. Yeah, you know, especially when you're 0:20:40.240 --> 0:20:42.800 you're starting to really bellie, Oh, I need to do 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.639 this for the firmer and faster, for these reasons, and 0:20:46.320 --> 0:20:49.840 you know, uh, then you have this event that I 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:53.320 imagine just affirmed your thoughts more. 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:56.480 Oh, absolutely absolutely. And they you know, no doubt they 0:20:56.520 --> 0:21:00.240 have an advantage with the with the soil condition as 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:03.040 they have there and and all of that. Jazz I 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:06.200 mean that they they can do those sort of things 0:21:06.240 --> 0:21:08.520 that we can get close to to stuff like that. 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:12.200 We're here at culvert, we're at heavy clay soil, so 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:15.000 it's it's hard to dry it out too much because 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:21.000 you lose turf when that happens. So but it definitely 0:21:21.040 --> 0:21:29.520 reaffirms a ground game more interesting, more fun. Seemed like 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:34.399 to me to be able to play slopes and play 0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:39.919 angles and and things of that nature too, to enhance 0:21:39.960 --> 0:21:42.879 the game and make it more fun, I think for 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:46.879 for everyone, not not just the best players, but I 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:49.520 think that would that would be more fun for everyone. 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:53.159 But one thing I noticed too while watching it is 0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:56.760 is their mode lines and how they incorporated all their 0:21:56.800 --> 0:21:59.920 bunkering around greens, which was the intent of the bunker. 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:03.720 The ball was, you know, a misshot was supposed to 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:07.120 go into the bunker, not roll down three inch rough 0:22:07.160 --> 0:22:10.640 and stop, which is what we were dealing with here. 0:22:10.720 --> 0:22:14.200 So you know, to see to see roll Melbourne's bunkering 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:19.600 in their close mode all the way around, you know, 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:22.280 except on the backsides where they let the rough go, 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:25.800 just kind of reaffirmed what we're trying to do here. 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:28.880 So it was it was really fun to watch. 0:22:28.640 --> 0:22:32.280 And there are you know, there there are some similarities, 0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:37.840 Like obviously Melbourne the soil is completely different, but you know, 0:22:37.920 --> 0:22:41.399 you've got large, undulating greens that have a lot of 0:22:41.520 --> 0:22:47.439 slopes around them that that make positioning extremely You can 0:22:47.520 --> 0:22:49.920 be in really good positions one day and really bad 0:22:49.960 --> 0:22:52.840 positions the next day. Just thinking about the golf course, 0:22:53.480 --> 0:22:56.400 and I think it's obviously you know Langford Moreau where 0:22:57.160 --> 0:23:01.480 their greens were severe greens, and their surrounds were very 0:23:01.520 --> 0:23:04.720 difficult with big, bold bunkering right, you know, and and 0:23:05.320 --> 0:23:10.280 that in a way obviously the soils couldn't be more different, 0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:13.880 but the architecture behind them and the intent was very 0:23:13.920 --> 0:23:20.399 similar in terms of technically, how have you been going 0:23:20.440 --> 0:23:25.720 about your fairway expansions, Like is it a mowdown, is 0:23:25.760 --> 0:23:29.639 it a sod? What have How have you been trying 0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:31.800 to approach them right now? 0:23:31.800 --> 0:23:35.520 It's just we've just slowly been mowing them down. And 0:23:35.600 --> 0:23:38.520 you had blue grass, Uh yeah, I mean we got 0:23:38.560 --> 0:23:42.280 everything out here. I mean it's it's the hodgepodge of grasses. 0:23:42.720 --> 0:23:45.119 There's a lot more bent grass out here than I 0:23:45.200 --> 0:23:49.760 originally thought, so it's a lot of the area. I'm 0:23:49.840 --> 0:23:52.280 kind of just following where the bent grass takes me 0:23:53.840 --> 0:23:57.520 in some areas, but it basically what we've done is 0:23:57.800 --> 0:24:03.320 mowed them down, started sanding them top, dressing them more, 0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:07.800 you know, some some growth regulators to try and promote 0:24:08.520 --> 0:24:13.920 the turf that we want. Uh yeah, aating more overseating. 0:24:13.960 --> 0:24:16.560 How many how many times a year are you aerating 0:24:16.600 --> 0:24:18.080 the areas you're trying to expand? 0:24:18.160 --> 0:24:21.520 Well this well this was our first season, so we 0:24:21.520 --> 0:24:26.040 we did them twice, uh and and and more sand. 0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:30.639 I mean that's just as kind of uh simple as that, 0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:33.760 you know, just trying to firm them up, get what 0:24:33.760 --> 0:24:36.440 we want, get the grass we want to grow going there, 0:24:36.720 --> 0:24:37.760 I I I'm trying. 0:24:37.880 --> 0:24:40.720 You have this hodgepodge of grasses. When you aerate and 0:24:40.800 --> 0:24:43.639 sand you know, for the layman, what what is it doing? 0:24:44.240 --> 0:24:47.520 Uh Well, we're we're firming the surface up, trying to 0:24:47.520 --> 0:24:50.439 get rid of the clay on top basically so we 0:24:50.480 --> 0:24:54.439 can get better drainage and just promote it gives a 0:24:54.440 --> 0:24:58.840 good base for the bent grass that we're trying to promote. 0:25:00.280 --> 0:25:02.880 We've done it. We've done it well on our greens. 0:25:03.200 --> 0:25:07.240 Our greens were never sanded for eighty years, so in 0:25:07.400 --> 0:25:11.639 the last five years. Uh, we've we've added about a 0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:14.640 three inch layer of sand into the profile of our greens, 0:25:15.880 --> 0:25:19.240 which is obviously furn them up. They drain fairly well, 0:25:21.000 --> 0:25:25.919 and it's just it's just uh, a better environment for 0:25:26.040 --> 0:25:28.760 the rest to grow, so that we're taking that same 0:25:28.800 --> 0:25:33.880 philosophy out to the surrounds and the fairways. So it's 0:25:33.880 --> 0:25:39.480 it's not anything big or extravagant, it's just it takes time. 0:25:41.040 --> 0:25:44.760 Now for a quick word from our sponsor, Golfers get 0:25:44.800 --> 0:25:48.760 custom fit clubs for longer and straighter shots. Now. Using 0:25:48.800 --> 0:25:52.639 the adjustable technology on Toro's new greens Master one thousand 0:25:52.760 --> 0:25:57.440 series walk green mower, superintendents can dial in operator performance 0:25:57.520 --> 0:26:03.200 for precise, consistent cuts. The greens Master's telescoping handle has 0:26:03.359 --> 0:26:07.040