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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us

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Speaker 1: live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app, and the Bloomberg Business App. We're

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Speaker 1: listening on demand wherever you get your podcast. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for being with us here on Bloomberg sound On. We're

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Speaker 1: at the Global Inclusive Growth Summit in Washington, hosted by

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Speaker 1: the MasterCard Center for Inclusive Growth in the Aspen Institute.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew along with Kaylee Lines with us for

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Speaker 1: the full journey today. Kelly, this theater was one of

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Speaker 1: the anchors of the rejuvenation of this neighborhood that helped

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Speaker 1: to make Logan Circle in the U Street cord or

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Speaker 1: what they are now. And so I'm looking forward to

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Speaker 1: some of the conversations that we'll be having with folks

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Speaker 1: on the issues that are driving this conversation on IMF week.

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Speaker 1: But we do want to get started with breaking news

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Speaker 1: pretty remarkable at twenty one year old. You can read

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Speaker 1: about this on the terminal is now the focus A

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Speaker 1: twenty one year old National Air National guardsman linked somehow,

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Speaker 1: if not the source of these classified documents that have

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Speaker 1: emerged on social media from the Pentagon. Yeah, and we

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Speaker 1: understand from Reuters that suspect could be arrested today Thursday

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Speaker 1: in Massachusetts. Remember the New York Times actually had named

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Speaker 1: him earlier as a member a leader of an online

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Speaker 1: group thug Shaker Central. On discord, they've named him as

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Speaker 1: Jack tx Area. I hope I am saying that correctly.

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Speaker 1: But again, a twenty one year old guardsman who had

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Speaker 1: access to these very high level government intelligence documents that

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Speaker 1: he was sharing with a small group online and that

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Speaker 1: have obviously since circulated far wider did intelligence apparently for

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Speaker 1: the Massachusetts Air National Guard, and with us now from

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Speaker 1: our Washington bureau is Bloomberg's Wendy Benjaminson. Wendy, we've got

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Speaker 1: a name, We've got an age. It looks like they're

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Speaker 1: making great progress in an investigation that twenty four hours

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Speaker 1: ago see to be going nowhere. Yes, they have a

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Speaker 1: tremendous progress. But the trouble is this. The news that

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Speaker 1: you and Kaylee just laid out sparks a thousand more questions.

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Speaker 1: How did a twenty one year old who must not

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Speaker 1: be a very high ranking intelligence official, how did he

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Speaker 1: get access to this information? There is a working theory

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Speaker 1: that perhaps it was emptied from a burn bag and

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Speaker 1: photographed there. We have no idea if that's true. We

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Speaker 1: don't know why, how this guy might have been seconded

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Speaker 1: to the Pentagon, or whether he ever was there, whether

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Speaker 1: these documents were shared, and then of course you know

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Speaker 1: to assess who why he was doing it. Was he

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Speaker 1: putting us out there just for his friends on the

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Speaker 1: gaming chat to see, or was he working for a

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Speaker 1: foreign adversary? Yeah, well, and of course we have to

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Speaker 1: consider that at the time that he was sharing these

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Speaker 1: documents originally was far before they actually were circulated more

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Speaker 1: widely on the Internet and then ultimately discovered by the

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Speaker 1: US government. I mean, when do we can't lose sight

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Speaker 1: here of how long it took the government to even

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Speaker 1: be made aware that this information was taken and then circulating.

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Speaker 1: So there's a question around the speed of the reaction

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Speaker 1: of this whole thing, Absolutely right, Kaylee. I mean, as

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Speaker 1: I said, there's a thousand questions, and I would put

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Speaker 1: on page two. You know, first page one is who

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Speaker 1: is this person and how did he get them and

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Speaker 1: for whom and why? Page two would be how could

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Speaker 1: they sit there on the internet for so long without

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Speaker 1: anyone noticing or anyone hearing anything about it. I mean,

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Speaker 1: this is, yes, a gaming chat room that perhaps top

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Speaker 1: Benagon officials don't visit very often. But it also sort

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Speaker 1: of hearkens back to the problem that we had around

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Speaker 1: January sixth. I mean, it turns out they were planning

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Speaker 1: the January sixth attack on the Capitol on Facebook, but

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Speaker 1: the FBI and the Secret Service had no idea until

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Speaker 1: the Capitol was already under siege. So that's that's going

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Speaker 1: to be something we need to we need to really

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Speaker 1: examine in the future. Is why who is watching the internet?

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Speaker 1: Wendy Benjaminson with us from the Bloomberg Washington Bureau, which

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Speaker 1: just got a lot busier today in the middle of

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Speaker 1: IMF and World Bank Week with this breaking story, and

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Speaker 1: we want to assemble our panel for their take on

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Speaker 1: this up first, Rick Davis and Jennie Chanzano, Bloomberg Politics contributors. Rick,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of amazing how quickly this has moves. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the Pentagon was taken a lot of criticism just twenty

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Speaker 1: four hours ago for clearly not knowing the source of

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Speaker 1: these leaks and an investigation that could have come up

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Speaker 1: with nothing. We're already talking about a name and an

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Speaker 1: age here the group. It sounds like they're circling in

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Speaker 1: on an actual suspect. What's your thought on the speed

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Speaker 1: with which this has emerged. Yeah, it's really quite meteor

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Speaker 1: orc and I would say too, to some degree driven

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Speaker 1: by press accounts of people who they've tracked down to

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Speaker 1: identify members within this thug Shaker central group and what

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Speaker 1: they've said. So, I mean, it's one of those situations

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Speaker 1: where we've actually been able to see the action as

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Speaker 1: it unfolds, and I think, you know, the media has

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Speaker 1: probably just been one quick step behind law enforcement, whether

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Speaker 1: it's DJ or the military intelligence people. But Biden forecast

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Speaker 1: it this morning said you know, action was eminent, and

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Speaker 1: he was right. They look like they're acting today and

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Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to see how this unfolds. But it's

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Speaker 1: it actually sounds like quite a sad story of a

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Speaker 1: young man who has really screwed up here, very different

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Speaker 1: than what we experienced under Edward Snowden, where you know,

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Speaker 1: he maliciously stole secrets and put them out into the

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Speaker 1: public domain, creating quite a quite a significant global backlash. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we have to consider this as a twenty

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Speaker 1: one year old we're talking about, and also the potential

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Speaker 1: implications for the other even teenagers in some cases that

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Speaker 1: were involved in this forum, and potential criminal implications exactly.

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Speaker 1: So there's there's so much to consider here. But Genie's

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Speaker 1: Rick pointed out, you know what we heard from the

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Speaker 1: president earlier today, not only was he suggesting that they

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Speaker 1: were getting closer, but he also was trying to project

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Speaker 1: that he wasn't ultimately that concerned about what the documents

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Speaker 1: actually contained. I mean, is the administration appropriately assessing the

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Speaker 1: damage control that needs to be done. You know, Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden has been known to go off the cuff, and

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Speaker 1: I think he's got to be very very careful on

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Speaker 1: this one. I don't know if you all agree, but

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Speaker 1: this is one of the most bizarre, weirdest, strangest stories

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Speaker 1: I think I've ever read. He's posting in twenty twenty,

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Speaker 1: somebody in the National Guard at twenty one years old

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Speaker 1: has access to signal level intelligence. What is happening in

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Speaker 1: the US intelligence world. Joe Biden is responsible for that

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Speaker 1: to a good degree. As president, they have a lot

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Speaker 1: to answer for. You have this guy who is worshiped

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Speaker 1: by high school students, one of the most bizarre aspects

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Speaker 1: of the post story was the fact that this guy,

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Speaker 1: after two years of posting, became my rate with the

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Speaker 1: young high school gamers who weren't seeming to pay attention

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Speaker 1: to the national security secrets, so he started sending them

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Speaker 1: more actual documents instead. You know, I'm just hoping the

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Speaker 1: story is wrong because it is so bizarre. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem like it adds up. It probably does, but in

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Speaker 1: the end, somebody's got to get to them. What's happening

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Speaker 1: in US intelligence? If this is where we are in

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, Rick, it looks like we could get

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Speaker 1: an arrest as soon as to day. Does that put

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Speaker 1: this case to bed here? Or will investigators be looking

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Speaker 1: for a wider circle. I think they'll be looking into

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Speaker 1: the group that had had access to the documents and

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Speaker 1: and ultimately how they wound up being distributed so widely

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Speaker 1: by news reports. Some of the members of this Dug

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Speaker 1: Shaker Central were Ukrainian, and so here are these Ukrainian

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Speaker 1: gamers looking at top secret information about a war happening

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Speaker 1: in their country. You can imagine how that information then

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Speaker 1: filtered out and then you know, how did it get manipulated?

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Speaker 1: We know that the Russians have been putting some things

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Speaker 1: out that have been changed, you know, So it's it's

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Speaker 1: I think this is a long story to sort of

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Speaker 1: follow the trail and see how these things materialized in

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Speaker 1: the public domain. But at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: I think we at least now know what the source was.

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Speaker 1: Rick Davis and G. D. Schanzano. Anything for the instant

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Speaker 1: analysis here with the breaking news story. It's twenty one

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Speaker 1: year old National guardsman identified as at least a link

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Speaker 1: here in the case of highly classified documents including maps,

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Speaker 1: intelligent updates assessment of Russia's war in Ukraine leaked online.

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Speaker 1: And will keep you posted on this story as we

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Speaker 1: learn a lot more about it. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington,

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Speaker 1: joined by Kaylee Lines, and we're live at the Studio

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Speaker 1: Theater in Washington, DC for an important event that's adjacent

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Speaker 1: to the meetings of the IMF and the World Bank,

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Speaker 1: the Global Inclusive Growth Summit here hosted by the MasterCard

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Speaker 1: Center for Inclusive Growth and the Aspen Institute. This is

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Speaker 1: a lot of moving parts. There are three levels here

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Speaker 1: to the Studio Theater, and there are events happening up

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Speaker 1: and down for the balance of the day here, and

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Speaker 1: we're joined by one of the more important voices that

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Speaker 1: you're going to hear from at this event, and that

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Speaker 1: would be the former US Trade Rep MasterCard vice Chair

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Speaker 1: and President Mike Frohman, with us here at the summit,

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Speaker 1: who's actually now also on the Council Foreign Relations. It's

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Speaker 1: great to see you, Mike. Thank you for being with

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Speaker 1: us at table. I didn't expect that we'd be talking

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Speaker 1: about breaking news on classified documents. Well, no you're not,

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Speaker 1: but but you are in the foreign policy world now.

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Speaker 1: And I just wonder before we get to some of

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Speaker 1: the issues that we're discussing here, including financial equity, how

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Speaker 1: concerned we should be about the way our leaders are

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Speaker 1: interacting with other countries, knowing that there there's evidence here

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Speaker 1: of America spying on its allies, that we've got dozens

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Speaker 1: of documents floating out there with critical information, and whether

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Speaker 1: this sets us back when it comes to geopolitical relations. Well, like, obviously,

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Speaker 1: this is a very serious incident, and it's good that

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Speaker 1: they're moving so quickly to resolve it. I think what's

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Speaker 1: important is that the administration is continuing to do the

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Speaker 1: outrage the President Biden has done since he's come in

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Speaker 1: to strengthen alliances, to engage in diplomacy, to demonstrate that

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Speaker 1: we want to work with our allies and partners around

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Speaker 1: the world and to get through this and to continue

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Speaker 1: to work with them. One of the most amazing and

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Speaker 1: more positive developments I think over the last couple of

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Speaker 1: years is just how much much of the world has

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Speaker 1: rallied behind of the Ukrainian people and their defense of

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Speaker 1: their country from Russian aggression, and how much that diplomatic

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Speaker 1: effort led by the US through NATO and with the

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Speaker 1: EU and others, has produced a coherent response. Yeah, we

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Speaker 1: are just getting some news related to Russia as well,

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Speaker 1: and the currently jailed Wall Street Journal reporter there, Evan

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Speaker 1: Gershkovitch ap just reporting from Moscow that Russia might be

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Speaker 1: willing to discuss a potential prisoner swap with the US

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Speaker 1: after his trial on espionage charges. So we're definitely going

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Speaker 1: to stay on top of that. Obviously alluding here to

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Speaker 1: the ongoing war in Eastern Europe around Russia and Ukraine.

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Speaker 1: There was also it seems like escalating tensions between the

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Speaker 1: US and China over Taiwan, but over other issues as well.

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Speaker 1: When you look around the world. What concerns you most geopolitically, Well,

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Speaker 1: I think we're at a critical moment where the Cold

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Speaker 1: War led lasted for about forty years, the Postcold War

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Speaker 1: period lasted basically thirty years, and now we're at another

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Speaker 1: pivot moment in history. We're not sure what the next

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Speaker 1: phase looks like. It's different from what we've seen before.

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Speaker 1: We have a different kind of competition with China than

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Speaker 1: we've ever had before, and we've got to work through

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Speaker 1: what a new equilibrium looks like and how to get there.

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Speaker 1: One thing that's clear is that in this last thirty

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Speaker 1: year period, the Postcold War period, it also coincided with

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Speaker 1: hyperglobalization and integration of the global economy, and that led

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Speaker 1: to a lot of people being lifted out of poverty,

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Speaker 1: but it also led to widening income inequality in countries

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Speaker 1: and between countries. And one of the things we're doing

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Speaker 1: how do we make sure that as the IMF and

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Speaker 1: just focused on what the GDP numbers are and how

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Speaker 1: much we're growing, but what's the quality of that growth,

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Speaker 1: How inclusive is it. How are we ensuring that we're

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Speaker 1: bringing people who might be left behind otherwise into that

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Speaker 1: global economy and into that growth momentum. Well, so let's

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Speaker 1: get into that for a moment, because that's a talking

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Speaker 1: point for a lot of the people who appear on

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Speaker 1: about the effort to find inclusion, to find equity, to

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Speaker 1: improve inclusion. But here we are in Logan Circle, which

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Speaker 1: has become really in many ways a symbol for what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about here. I mean, this neighborhood has changed

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Speaker 1: enormously over the past couple of decades, and this theater

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Speaker 1: that we're in was kind of an anchor for that rejuvenation.

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Speaker 1: As I said a little bit earlier, how do you

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Speaker 1: actually get to this though, How do you get to

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Speaker 1: solutions for something that is frankly, so far largely elusive. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think you have to look at it from a

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Speaker 1: multifacet approach. And one thing that is special about this

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Speaker 1: gathering is we've got government officials, representatives of international organizations,

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Speaker 1: but very importantly, we've got the private sector and the

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Speaker 1: NGO community here as well, and each one has a

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Speaker 1: role to play. The government can't do it alone, the

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Speaker 1: private sector can't do it alone. And I think we're

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Speaker 1: getting better at working across sectors towards concrete solutions. So

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Speaker 1: we had Mayor Bowser here this morning. She heard up

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Speaker 1: the summit. She was terrific. She was talking about She

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Speaker 1: was talking about the rejuvenation of parts of washing EC,

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Speaker 1: including this area, and how important it is that we

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Speaker 1: promote growth but also make sure that everyone is able

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Speaker 1: to participate in that. We've got people from all over

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Speaker 1: the world who've come in to talk about their very

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Speaker 1: specific interventions that are having an effect on inclusion and

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Speaker 1: inclusive growth. And now I think the challenge is for

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Speaker 1: us to look at all of this and figure out

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Speaker 1: how do we scale these things up because there are

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Speaker 1: tremendous innovations going on all over the world, in this

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Speaker 1: country and elsewhere, but now to have real impact, they've

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Speaker 1: got to be scaled up, and that's where the private sector,

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Speaker 1: working with government can really have a positive impact. It

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Speaker 1: strikes me though, that we're talking about inclusive growth the

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Speaker 1: operative word. They're being growth at a time we're also

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Speaker 1: talking about potential recessions around the world, So how do

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Speaker 1: you square that circle? I mean, what is your view

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Speaker 1: on the outlook for recession here in the US and elsewhere. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's certainly easier to achieve inclusion if you're part of

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Speaker 1: a growing pie, right, So I think you're absolutely right

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Speaker 1: to focus on both parts of that word is important,

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Speaker 1: inclusion and growth. You know, I think there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of concern right now in terms of where we are,

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Speaker 1: a lot of uncertainty about whether we'll go into a recession,

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Speaker 1: or how deep or how long that recession will be,

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Speaker 1: or whether we're just going to see some slower growth.

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Speaker 1: And so far in the US many markets around the world,

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Speaker 1: growth may have slowed somewhat, but we have avoided the

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Speaker 1: hard recession that people just a year ago we're predicting.

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Speaker 1: Right now down the street again at the IMF and

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Speaker 1: World Bank, they're talking about this. They're trying to understand

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Speaker 1: what the rising interest rate environment really means, what needs

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Speaker 1: to be done to bring down inflation, which is really

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Speaker 1: a terrible tax on people who can least afford can

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Speaker 1: at least afford it, and how to do that without

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Speaker 1: putting the economy into a tail spin. But so far,

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Speaker 1: I have to say, knock on wood, it's it's this

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Speaker 1: is a better outlook right now than people accept expected

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Speaker 1: six or eight or twelve months ago. How is winning

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Speaker 1: the fight against inflation when it comes to equity, It

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Speaker 1: seems to me that that has been a very disruptive

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Speaker 1: factor here. You know, it is important, and it's not

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Speaker 1: always appreciated, but just how much it affects people who

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Speaker 1: are living from paycheck to paycheck all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: now hopefully their paychecks are going up too. That there's

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Speaker 1: some wage increases as well, but it wages rarely increase

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Speaker 1: as much as the cost of living. And so if

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Speaker 1: you are at the lower end of the economic spectrum

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Speaker 1: and you are spending at a high portion of your

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Speaker 1: disposable income on food and energy and clothes for your children,

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Speaker 1: and backpacks to go back to school, and all the

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Speaker 1: basics of thee all the items that are costing more,

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Speaker 1: then it's it's really very, very difficult, and so we

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Speaker 1: need to bring it down. But we need to bring

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Speaker 1: it down obviously in a way that hopefully avoids a

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Speaker 1: kind of deep and long recession that might otherwise happen.

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Speaker 1: So far, we seem to be threading that needle, and

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Speaker 1: fleet will continue to do so. So you at master

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Speaker 1: Card specifically with your role there, obviously you have many

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Speaker 1: are not seeing that spending is starting to slow. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking right now at Bank of America data that

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Speaker 1: was released yesterday that showed sequentially card spending per household

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Speaker 1: fell one and a half percent month on month in March.

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Speaker 1: Are you seeing signs at the slowdown that inflationary pressure,

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Speaker 1: how expensive things are starting to make people spend less.

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Speaker 1: So far, we've seen a fair amount of resilience by consumers,

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Speaker 1: and they're continuing to spend more than they spent last year.

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Speaker 1: And it may vary from sector to sector and frankly

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Speaker 1: from region to region, but we are seeing a fair

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Speaker 1: amount of resilience, and I think again that's another very

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Speaker 1: positive optimistic sign that despite all that we've all gone

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Speaker 1: through over the last three years, pandemic wars, inflation, recession,

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Speaker 1: people are quite resilient and and we're seeing people getting

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Speaker 1: back to work, high rates of employment, low rates of unemployment,

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Speaker 1: more labor participation, somewhat higher wages, and all of that

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Speaker 1: I think is continuing to give the consumer confidence that

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Speaker 1: they can they can continue to spend. How much money

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Speaker 1: did people still have saved from COVID. This has been

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Speaker 1: an enormous part of the story, right, the incredible amount

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Speaker 1: of savings that has carried people through a pandemic and

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Speaker 1: now continuing to spend and what would otherwise be a

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Speaker 1: potentially challenging economic environment. Are we running out of money

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Speaker 1: yet this is the savings from COVID. It's a great question.

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Speaker 1: I don't have figures with you, but you're right that

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Speaker 1: the COVID savings and the stimulus programs and other kinds

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Speaker 1: of government support as well went a long way towards

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Speaker 1: smoothing out the economics of the last year. We see

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Speaker 1: it declining in terms of how much savings they have,

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Speaker 1: but they still seem to have a fair amount of

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Speaker 1: wherewithal well, and of course to the point on the

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Speaker 1: COVID build up, and coming back to the inclusion point,

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Speaker 1: the people who weren't able to save a lot during COVID,

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Speaker 1: some of them were the ones that could move to

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Speaker 1: cheaper areas because their job was remote. A lot of

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Speaker 1: those essential workers, who often are at the lower end

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Speaker 1: of the wage spectrum didn't have that kind of luxury

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Speaker 1: they had. They had to go to work, They had

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Speaker 1: to go to work where they lived and put themselves

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Speaker 1: at risk and forever our benefit, and that's right, and

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Speaker 1: they're and they're continuing now to work there as well. Well. So, Mike,

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Speaker 1: to what extent is this a government solution when we're

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Speaker 1: trying to solve the equity issue or a private one,

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Speaker 1: because I think you're going to tell me it's a

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Speaker 1: partnership between the two. But somebody's going to take a

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Speaker 1: lead on this. I think government can play has to

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Speaker 1: play a very important role in setting out the broad

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Speaker 1: objectives what we're trying to achieve, and to agree that

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Speaker 1: there is consensus. And in this town there's very little

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Speaker 1: consensus about much that can actually move legislation through, but

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Speaker 1: there's been some very important legislative achievements, including the Infrastructure Bill,

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Speaker 1: the IRA and others. It's agree that they can marshal

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Speaker 1: a consensus, then that's very important. But I think what

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Speaker 1: we've learned over the last decade or two is that

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Speaker 1: it's not enough. And the key is really how to

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Speaker 1: leverage the innovation, the resources, the motivation of the private sector,

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Speaker 1: whether it's dealing with global pandemics and the speed to

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Speaker 1: which we were able to achieve vaccines and get them

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Speaker 1: distributed or dealing with climate change or dealing with many

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Speaker 1: of the issues around economic development. Fascinating conversation. You're lastening

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Speaker 1: to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch us live weekdays

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Speaker 1: at one Eastern on Bloomberg dot Com, the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 1: and the Bloomberg Business App. We're listening on demand wherever

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Speaker 1: you get your podcast. I'm Joe Matthew and Washington with

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Speaker 1: Kaylee Lines, the former US Trade Rep. MasterCard vice chair

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Speaker 1: and President Mike Frohman with us here at the table

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Speaker 1: at the Global Inclusive Growth Summit in Washington, DC. We

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Speaker 1: need to play this to the panel, Rick Davis and

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Speaker 1: Genie Chantano Kaylier with us right now as we come

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Speaker 1: off our breaking news and focus on the economy. Here. Genie,

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Speaker 1: this conversation is one that the Biden administration has been

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Speaker 1: trying to have, but there's typically always something that kind

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Speaker 1: of grabs the headlines. How do we stay trained on

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Speaker 1: the idea of equity and what roles should the government

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Speaker 1: play in it? Yeah, I mean it's the conversation that

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden his administration have been trying to have since

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Speaker 1: before the election, and it is very tough and I

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Speaker 1: think one one of the challenges they face is that,

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Speaker 1: you know, we saw good news with the inflation moderating,

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Speaker 1: but then you see the Fed notes saying that we

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Speaker 1: may see a recession coming at the back end of

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Speaker 1: twenty three. How can the administration focus on issues like

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Speaker 1: equity when you couple that sort of bad news story

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Speaker 1: with the fact that the polls show that the American public,

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Speaker 1: number one, the economy is the top issue as it

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Speaker 1: always has on their minds. Number two, they think the

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Speaker 1: economy is in pretty bad shape, and number three, they

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Speaker 1: think at least fifty percent that they're doing worse than

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Speaker 1: they were a year ago. So I think, you know,

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Speaker 1: what I would say is that it's hard for the

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Speaker 1: inviting administration to break through on issues of equity when

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Speaker 1: this is how people are feeling at the top of

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Speaker 1: their minds about the economic situation that they are facing

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Speaker 1: in the moment. So I think that's a big challenge

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Speaker 1: for any administration. They're right to focus on equity, but

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Speaker 1: hard to break through some of the real challenges people

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Speaker 1: are facing out there. Yeah, and on the subject of

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Speaker 1: economic challenges, Rick, something we've been talking about all week

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Speaker 1: is the contrast between what the White House and those

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Speaker 1: affiliated with the Biden administration are saying about the state

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Speaker 1: of the economy and what we're hearing from others from

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Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve to the IMF and World Bank, and

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Speaker 1: the conversations being had to hear at the meetings in

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Speaker 1: Washington this week. Is the administration trying to paint too

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Speaker 1: rosy a picture. Obviously is to their political advantage to

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Speaker 1: say that the economy is doing okay, But does it

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Speaker 1: come back to bite them at some point. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: only their political advantage if it actually turns out to

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Speaker 1: be okay. It's really a disadvantage if they go out

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Speaker 1: with a rosy scenario saying, oh that, you know, people

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Speaker 1: are fine, and people aren't fine and they're feeling the pinch.

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Speaker 1: And I think this is part of the dislocation that

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Speaker 1: this administration has had. They try to paint a rosy

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Speaker 1: scenario around inflation. Oh, don't worry, it's transient, it's not

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Speaker 1: going to be around. Then they you know, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be a a federal responsibility. We can't really

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Speaker 1: do anything about it. And they've confused the public as

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Speaker 1: to who is really responsible and accountable for the state

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Speaker 1: of the economy in the United States and of course, everybody,

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Speaker 1: most vorders would agree that as the US goes, so

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Speaker 1: does a large portion of the Western world. And our

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Speaker 1: economy is very influential, so it's not just here, it's

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Speaker 1: abroad also. So I think the Biden administration has been

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Speaker 1: a little bit too I would say, optimistic about their prospects.

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Speaker 1: And I think that there's something to be said about

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Speaker 1: politicians who you know, speak truth to power, a little

433
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,800
Speaker 1: straight talk, as John McCaine used to say, and say, look,

434
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:25,359
Speaker 1: you know, we're gonna have a rocky ride here, and

435
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:27,040
Speaker 1: we've got to buckle down, and you know, we're going

436
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,880
Speaker 1: to take these measures. We hope the private sector does

437
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,200
Speaker 1: their part and we can get through this. But we

438
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,800
Speaker 1: feel your pain, Ricky. Work in the investment community, what

439
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 1: role does it play in this where should Well, I

440
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 1: think it plays a very large role. I'm actually very

441
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: impressed that the Inclusive Growth Summit has such a large

442
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 1: participation of private finance because at the end of the day,

443
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,880
Speaker 1: that's a force multiplier. Governments can only do so much

444
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 1: with the resources they have, and when you start talking

445
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:58,520
Speaker 1: about things like you know, internet inclusion and technology, this

446
00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,320
Speaker 1: is really the kinds of things that the private sector

447
00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,440
Speaker 1: has a much better capacity to put let on the target.

448
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:09,640
Speaker 1: You know, find communities that need growth, need economic freedom

449
00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:13,920
Speaker 1: and also education, and apply that to their to their

450
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: financial models. If you don't have an economically sustainable program,

451
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: it will come and go as administrations come and go.

452
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: And I think that employing the private sector as they've

453
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,040
Speaker 1: done in the program today, but also I think this

454
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: is another thing I think the Biden administration could do

455
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,040
Speaker 1: more of, is bring in the private sector and let

456
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: them apply their resources to solving some of these intractical problems. Genie,

457
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,560
Speaker 1: as we're talking about growth and equity, it reminds me

458
00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,200
Speaker 1: a lot of the conversations we were having at Bloomberg

459
00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: being Bloomberg around the Dabb's decision when Rov Wade was overturned,

460
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 1: about what that does to women's participation in the workforce,

461
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 1: what it does to racial and income inequality, and that

462
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: is still an on conversation we are having as we

463
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: are all glued to the headlines on access to the

464
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 1: abortion pill in the US, for example, we now understand

465
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:09,520
Speaker 1: that the Department of Justice has turned to the Supreme

466
00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 1: Court looking for an emergency kind of help there. Potentially,

467
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: where do you think this goes? You know, it's such

468
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: an important story, and I do think it will go

469
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:25,440
Speaker 1: to the Supreme Court, because of course we've had conflicting

470
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,399
Speaker 1: decisions out of at the federal lower federal level, and

471
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 1: so normally those should go to the Supreme Court. And

472
00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: I think when this does that the courts as conservative

473
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 1: as the Court is, I think you look at this

474
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: case out of Texas, and you've got to say that

475
00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 1: the plaintiffs in that case left standing, and so from

476
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 1: you know, so almost from the most basic look at it,

477
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 1: they should throw that case out and that decision that

478
00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:54,159
Speaker 1: was rendered the other the other week should not stand.

479
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 1: Now that said, I don't want to predict that that's

480
00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 1: what's going to happen, but as you know, I love

481
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: the way you've framed at Kaylee, because the reality is

482
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: this impacts people across the board in the United States

483
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,080
Speaker 1: in so many ways. Fifty percent of abortions in this

484
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: country or more today are done as a result of

485
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,800
Speaker 1: this medication. And of course, if this decision was to stand,

486
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,920
Speaker 1: it impacts not just this one medication, but as the

487
00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:22,760
Speaker 1: pharmaceutical companies have told us, all medications then are at

488
00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: the whim of a jurist at the federal level from

489
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,680
Speaker 1: across the country, and that's simply no way to run

490
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: a government or a healthcare system. So the ramifications of

491
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:36,239
Speaker 1: this decision we just see. You can't even overstate. And

492
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,760
Speaker 1: of course immediately women are impacted, particularly young women of

493
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:43,639
Speaker 1: childbearing age, many of whom are in the workforce, so

494
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 1: that impacts all of us. It's a really important impact

495
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 1: on opportunity that Kayley rings up, and of course Guy's

496
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: growth itself is as well. When we consider the potential

497
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,200
Speaker 1: for a recession, the debt ceiling plays into that and

498
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,600
Speaker 1: whether or not we can find a solution here in Washington,

499
00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: and there is news on that today, as report suggest,

500
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: House Republican leaders have begun putting together a proposal here

501
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,040
Speaker 1: for the White House would lift the debt limit until

502
00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,919
Speaker 1: May of next year twenty four and would come with

503
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,840
Speaker 1: cuts to spending. It's unclear exactly what they're going to

504
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: land on here, but we know they want to go

505
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 1: back to fiscally year twenty twenty two levels and then

506
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 1: caps spending in years going forward. There looks like there's

507
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 1: some deal breakers here for the White House, though, Rick

508
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,560
Speaker 1: is this proposal debt on arrival, you know it's it's

509
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 1: a it's a it's an entry point, right. I mean,

510
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: Republicans have been very nervous about putting any specific spending

511
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: cuts on the table in advance of either having a

512
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: budget or or having a clear coalition caucus position. This

513
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 1: is the first step in this in this direction. Uh,

514
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,640
Speaker 1: these are pretty significant caps if they put a five

515
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty four billion dollars cap on non defense

516
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,360
Speaker 1: discretionary spending. So, uh, it's a it's a start, and

517
00:26:56,119 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 1: and it's a good thing that it's a start. I

518
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,760
Speaker 1: think it's realistic to have a one year clock on

519
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: a on an extension for the for the dead ceiling.

520
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: And uh, and if it gets us past this current impass,

521
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 1: then then then I think it'll work for the economy. Well,

522
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:14,359
Speaker 1: I just have to wonder, Rick, if the pressure is

523
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,000
Speaker 1: adequately on yet, considering we're talking about an X date

524
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,720
Speaker 1: later on this summer, Like, is the clock ticking loud

525
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: enough that something's going to happen in the near term

526
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: or are we just going to converse around this until

527
00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: it's really go or get gone time. Well, when you

528
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: when you actually add up the number of work days

529
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 1: that the House of Representatives are going to have between

530
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: now and June, you actually have very little time left.

531
00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:39,360
Speaker 1: So uh, I know that it seems like a long

532
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 1: time away if you look at a regular calendar, but

533
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:45,960
Speaker 1: the amount of work that Congress does interrupted by recesses

534
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,719
Speaker 1: and holidays is very limited right now. And so in

535
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,080
Speaker 1: order to even get these negotiations started to get to

536
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: a point where there's enough pressure on is going to

537
00:27:56,440 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 1: be somewhere between now and that that X date. And

538
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:02,439
Speaker 1: and I don't know any Republican in the House that

539
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,560
Speaker 1: I've spoken with who doesn't want to get this resolved

540
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 1: before their back is up against the wall, and ultimately

541
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:11,880
Speaker 1: have to ignore some attacks from the public who say,

542
00:28:11,920 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 1: why don't you just get your homework done on time? Huh, Genie,

543
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 1: what's Joe Biden going to say to this proposal? He's

544
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 1: got a lot of people waiting for his reply. Is

545
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,679
Speaker 1: it going to be show us your plan. It's going

546
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:24,879
Speaker 1: to be show us your plan, and then it is

547
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 1: going to be a lot of discussion time as short

548
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,919
Speaker 1: as Kaylee and Rick were just talking about. And of

549
00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,159
Speaker 1: course Monday, Kevin McCarthy is following Ronald Reagan heading to

550
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: the New York Stock Exchange to talk about the debt

551
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 1: limit and try to put some pressure on the White

552
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:40,920
Speaker 1: House and to try to you know, let people on

553
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:43,880
Speaker 1: Wall Street know what he's been screaming from the rafters,

554
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,800
Speaker 1: which is that, you know, we want to get a

555
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 1: deal on this, but we've got to handle the deficit

556
00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: and the debt issue, and the White House is not

557
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:54,320
Speaker 1: playing ball, and of course the Biden administration is going

558
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: to say right back, show us your numbers. And there's

559
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: not a lot of time. Some people saying that X

560
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: date maybe is early as June, not a lot of

561
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:06,560
Speaker 1: time to handle a huge challenge. Rick and Jennie on

562
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,240
Speaker 1: our panel, Thanks as always for the insights guys in

563
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,479
Speaker 1: some breaking news here from the Pentagon all the way

564
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 1: to our conversation at the Inclusive Growth Summit in Washington, DC.

565
00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 1: Straight ahead, our conversation with the CEO of Chabani. We

566
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,240
Speaker 1: have a lot to talk about with Hamdi Lecaya coming

567
00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:25,000
Speaker 1: up next on Bloomberg. You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound

568
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: on podcast. Catch us live weekdays at one Eastern on

569
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com, the I Heart Radio app, and the

570
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business App. We're listening on demand wherever you get

571
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 1: your podcast. Welcome to Bloomberg Sound on a special edition

572
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,160
Speaker 1: today as we're live from the Global Inclusive Growth Summit

573
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: and Washington, DC, hosted by the MasterCard Center for Inclusive

574
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 1: Growth and the Aspen Institute. I'm Joe Matthew with Kaylee Lions.

575
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 1: We've only been here for a half hour and we've

576
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 1: learned a lot already actually with breaking news and of

577
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 1: course an important conversation happening right here at the studio theater. Indeed,

578
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: there's always breaking news these days. There are still major

579
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 1: overarching questions hanging over the global economy, be it just

580
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: the trajectory of growth or potential contraction, but then also

581
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: as you're growing, how you bring more people into it.

582
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: And that's really the kind of nexus of conversations here. Yeah, Well,

583
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:18,480
Speaker 1: in an important conversation that we're going to have right

584
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 1: now with the CEO of the nation's top selling Greek yogurt,

585
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: who's actually going out of his way to fulfill what

586
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,200
Speaker 1: a lot of people like to talk about but don't

587
00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 1: always act on when you talk about that growth, when

588
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 1: you talk about equity. Hamdi Ilukaya knows a lot about it.

589
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: Thanks for being with us here, Thanks for being part

590
00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: of the summit here. I have to be honest, the

591
00:30:35,880 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 1: last time you were in the news here is when

592
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: you created this refugee advocacy group tent in your company

593
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:47,680
Speaker 1: was boycotted nationally for essentially harboring refugees. It was kind

594
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: of an anti Muslim sentiment, as I remember, and I

595
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 1: wonder how your company is doing now with all of that.

596
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 1: Is that in the past. Sure, it's quite a long

597
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: time ago. Yeah, I'd like to remember that this was

598
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: very distanced past. But I'm glad where we are today

599
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: and versus where we were back then. My response to

600
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,320
Speaker 1: that was, you know, when I started Chobani, I started

601
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:13,560
Speaker 1: hiring refugees who settled in Utica. And when I hired

602
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,160
Speaker 1: everyone used to work in that factory, you know, close factory,

603
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,040
Speaker 1: and I expanded the geography and and someone said that

604
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,320
Speaker 1: there are refugees are settled in here and they're having

605
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: a hard time finding jobs. And they you know, the

606
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: challenges for them were they didn't speak the language, they

607
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: didn't have transportations or driver license, or they didn't have

608
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,280
Speaker 1: the training for the jobs they're available in that market.

609
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,400
Speaker 1: And these are very easy to solve, you know, just

610
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:41,719
Speaker 1: simple things. I said, Well, let's let's try. And you know,

611
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,760
Speaker 1: we're we're making your good. We're growing. And this is

612
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 1: two thousand and eight, two thousand and nine, and I

613
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,640
Speaker 1: never thought this was a work of refugee. I thought

614
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: this was just a community work. People in the communities settled,

615
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: they have worked, right to work, and let's hire everyone.

616
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: It wasn't until two fifteen this topic refugee became a

617
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: politicized in a very unhumane way. I responded to my

618
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 1: brothers and sisters. We have three hundreds, four hundreds of

619
00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 1: them were working shoulder to shoulder making yogurt and being

620
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: part of community. And I just brought the news in

621
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,160
Speaker 1: and said, what is the problem. This is brothers and

622
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: sister like us. We're working and here are the benefits.

623
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: I think the boycott was one of them that what

624
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:26,200
Speaker 1: people don't know. When I get back to my office

625
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: one day and I saw these hundreds of hundreds of

626
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 1: males on my table, and I didn't realize what it was.

627
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: It was letters from all cross the country and sending

628
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: me and saying, this is what this country is all

629
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 1: about supporting. Yeah, exactly, And I'm glad that conversation has

630
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: happened and that topic really influenced me and inspired me

631
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 1: to start ten Partnership for Refugees. In my own eyes,

632
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:54,360
Speaker 1: I saw these people to shine and start contributing to

633
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,840
Speaker 1: communities and how much contribution they have done to my

634
00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:00,440
Speaker 1: company at Shobani, and I thought, if we can encourage

635
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: other businesses to hire and train refugees, they don't want

636
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: hand out, they just want to be part of the community,

637
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 1: stand on their feet again, this could become something. So

638
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 1: that's how Tense started from that experience. Today we are

639
00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: here for that reason. We have over three hundred companies

640
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: globally hiring and training refugees, and this is I'd like

641
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: to think that this conversations and this journey has proven

642
00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:27,680
Speaker 1: companies and CEOs that these are the people you want

643
00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 1: them in your companies for business reasons as much as

644
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: the humanitarian reason. Yeah, to that point, it's not just

645
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 1: about the humanitarian askect. It's also about the economics of it. Right,

646
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,360
Speaker 1: if everything comes down to a decision about business and

647
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,240
Speaker 1: money at the end of it. We've been talking about

648
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: labor shortage for some time now, and in theory, this

649
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 1: is another possible avenue to help ameliorate that one hundred

650
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,480
Speaker 1: percent and if you look at all the states that said,

651
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 1: you know, we don't want refugees in our community. I

652
00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: mean a year or two years after every single one

653
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 1: of them makes up one or two send to President

654
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: Trump and if you want refugees in our community. I

655
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: just came back from Idaho. You know, we have a

656
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 1: really good sized plant in there. These communities are you know,

657
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: want these refugees to be in their communities because they

658
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:16,760
Speaker 1: know what they do. I mean, Utika is a completely

659
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:20,359
Speaker 1: different city now because all these people came from all

660
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: over the world that it was challenging and it was

661
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: forced to leave to improve the lives, prove the lives

662
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,920
Speaker 1: and the studies that we've made a tent that we

663
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,919
Speaker 1: do brand studies, we do economic studies, and we do

664
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,919
Speaker 1: you know, community studies. In every angle of it, three

665
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: years to five years is paced back and everything else

666
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: is a profit. So economically extremely extremely good for businesses, communities.

667
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: So how you're an example of what private enterprise can do.

668
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 1: We were talking earlier about private versus government, the roles

669
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:52,960
Speaker 1: that they can play and who should take the lead.

670
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 1: You didn't wait around. You're actually an example of a

671
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 1: private entity doing this, not waiting to see what happens

672
00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:03,000
Speaker 1: or that to think thoughts and get a photo opportunity.

673
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: What's your advice to other private entities who are waiting

674
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: for direction. I love this question, Joe I. I think

675
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,960
Speaker 1: you know, the political landscape changes, and a topic like

676
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: refugees so so sensitive, and if you are from if

677
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: you are looking on from the real perspective, where the

678
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,640
Speaker 1: suffering and the magnitude of this issue in the hands

679
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,000
Speaker 1: of government, you could have three, four or five years

680
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: that it's you know, it's good, and you could have

681
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: a few years that is really backlashing. But as soon

682
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,799
Speaker 1: as the private sector gets into any any issues they've

683
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:43,760
Speaker 1: been facing, whether income, inequality, refugees, you know, uh, sustainability,

684
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: when it becomes a real practice of business, then you

685
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 1: have a real chance of making a significant improves in

686
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: in these topics. And every single time a business gets

687
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,759
Speaker 1: involved in a really a real way, not just checked

688
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: the but actually believing in it and coming in, yeah,

689
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 1: you realize that how much effect it has in culture, innovation,

690
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: and speed and profitability. So the point is there is

691
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 1: not it's not an option for the private sector to

692
00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: stay silent or not to be active anymore. For so

693
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 1: many reasons. One, the consumer want companies to get be

694
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: active on these things, like that's the reality. The employees

695
00:36:27,239 --> 00:36:29,960
Speaker 1: of these companies want to get active on these things.

696
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: And then the third thing is you're going to be

697
00:36:31,640 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: yesterday's company if you don't get active on these things. Right,

698
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 1: So there's all that reasons for companies to get involved

699
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:41,120
Speaker 1: in really really a significant way. Well, we're talking about

700
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: companies involvement. Once refugees land where they land, what kind

701
00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:49,279
Speaker 1: of involvement or role should the private sector play in

702
00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: solving the issues from which they are running from. Obviously

703
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 1: in some cases, you know that's war and instability, but

704
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:01,400
Speaker 1: there's also famine and starvation exactly, Like what about especially

705
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: for Jovanni, this global food insecurity issue? What role do

706
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 1: you play in that? So this is you know, you're

707
00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:11,120
Speaker 1: touched in a really real place. This climate is now

708
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,759
Speaker 1: creating annest amount of refugees, and we look at it,

709
00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:16,400
Speaker 1: this is the beginning of it. Of course, the climate.

710
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:18,239
Speaker 1: We have to do something that this doesn't generate the

711
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,359
Speaker 1: norm of other suffering, but this is reality at tent.

712
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:28,359
Speaker 1: What we do is we became this bridge between companies

713
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:33,680
Speaker 1: and refugees. So basically, the simple act of hiring and

714
00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:36,919
Speaker 1: the minute the refugee gets a job, that's the minute

715
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: they stop being a refugee, right and how do you

716
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: do that? And there are there are some challenges. Of course,

717
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 1: legally needs to have right to work. So your question

718
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,480
Speaker 1: enjoys the governments and policymakers can play a role of

719
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:53,319
Speaker 1: legalizing the refugees to have an access to work in

720
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 1: a legal way, in a right way. Otherwise there's a

721
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,839
Speaker 1: lot of human rights relations in this country. Refugees come

722
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:04,399
Speaker 1: as right to work and that's a process. And so

723
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,239
Speaker 1: the small obstacles that you have in front of you

724
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: before you're hiring it is really can be solved by

725
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:14,240
Speaker 1: communicating with each other. And tent comes to a play

726
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,120
Speaker 1: and connecting refugee populations wherever they are in the country

727
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: or in Europe and Mexico to the talents that the

728
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:27,520
Speaker 1: companies want. And we make that connections. Often the refugees,

729
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: you know, job description is obstacled by the language and

730
00:38:34,120 --> 00:38:36,200
Speaker 1: that takes a couple of years, but they're having a

731
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 1: roadmap to those skilled refugees to get the job that

732
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 1: they deserve. It's a journey, but they're willing to start

733
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 1: whatever it needs to be started as long as it

734
00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 1: gets there. We're spending time with thumb the Ulakaya, the

735
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 1: CEO of Jobani, the Greek yogurt company here at the

736
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: Global Inclusive Growth Sumbody in DC. So where's the line

737
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,839
Speaker 1: between charity and doing business? Because I think you're going

738
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: to tell I think I know the answer that the

739
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: work that you're doing through TENT, that seeking equity and

740
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:09,880
Speaker 1: inclusive growth is actually good for business. It's one hundred

741
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: percent good for business. You're not of a charity. Business

742
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:16,920
Speaker 1: tent is a charity does not have a foundation. So

743
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: if we don't have a foundation, I used to have it.

744
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 1: Early on, I said, that's just separation of doing good

745
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 1: from the everyday practice. So I separated that. But today

746
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: we wake up at Travanni every single morning, every single

747
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: one of us. And I wasn't twin fast as I

748
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: said before. Is I come to work, I'm going to

749
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 1: make most delicious, most natural yo good. I'm sorry, that's

750
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,840
Speaker 1: really true. But while I do that, what are my

751
00:39:40,920 --> 00:39:44,200
Speaker 1: touching points that I can improve lives? And that started

752
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: within your own community? Right? So, and is that a

753
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: model of every single person waking up in the morning

754
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: coming to your plant or your office or whatever you do.

755
00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 1: The minute you do that, then you break all the

756
00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,799
Speaker 1: records because you don't come to you don't come to

757
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:05,040
Speaker 1: work to make yogurt. You come through yogurt, you change

758
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:07,280
Speaker 1: lives and you make the world a better place, small

759
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:10,799
Speaker 1: or big. Then every single ones, every single person want

760
00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: to participate in this. I mean, I give it example,

761
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: we bent through in a pandemic with Chobanni and you

762
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 1: know suppy chain challenges and labor challenges and all the

763
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 1: challenges you can face it this company, even though it's

764
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,879
Speaker 1: a startup, it's been a long time, but it's still

765
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 1: a startup. It's still private. We don't have normal some

766
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 1: other resources in every dimension that you can think of.

767
00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,080
Speaker 1: Compared Chobani to all the other CpG and foodmakers in

768
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,480
Speaker 1: the large ones. We broke all the records from the growth,

769
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:43,840
Speaker 1: from the fulfillment rates, from you know, the last days

770
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:46,839
Speaker 1: of work or COVID or anything you can think of.

771
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,399
Speaker 1: And that's not my work. It's not because of me.

772
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: It's because of the energy that the community you create

773
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:56,560
Speaker 1: within the company, that every single person fights for it

774
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 1: or works for it. It's the ultimate answer to the boycott. Exactly.

775
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:03,080
Speaker 1: I have to ask you handy because you just mentioned

776
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 1: there that Shavanni is a private company. There was a

777
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: period of time in which we thought Shabani was about

778
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,720
Speaker 1: to be a public public company. You pulled that IPO

779
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,920
Speaker 1: in September. Are there any plans for a revival? There

780
00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,760
Speaker 1: was the best decision I've ever made. Wow. Why because

781
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,000
Speaker 1: I didn't like the way that process was going, and

782
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:23,439
Speaker 1: I thought, there's a lot of dollars in the air.

783
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: And my purpose of doing that is, you know, we're

784
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 1: a private company and we have no pressure to go public, right,

785
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: so we are really really private. We don't have any

786
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 1: financial institutions in large scale that looking for a return.

787
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 1: The reason I wanted to do that is employees own

788
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 1: shares and I want them to get an access to that.

789
00:41:44,360 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 1: Everybody at company has access to shares. They have their shares,

790
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 1: and we thought it's in a good point to fuel

791
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:56,040
Speaker 1: the growth in all dimensions and that would help. And

792
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: I thought, between COVID and supply chains and all the

793
00:41:59,000 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: market conditions, it's better to use this time to focus

794
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: on our business than deal with other things that we

795
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,200
Speaker 1: don't have to. So we put it out. Sounds like

796
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 1: you're not coming back around I can't say that. No,

797
00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:13,799
Speaker 1: I'm still on the table. I might. I just don't know.

798
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:16,279
Speaker 1: It's not something that I think about it. If it,

799
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 1: if I am convinced that it's going to help Chobani

800
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: and its people and the mission, I'm not against it. Yeah,

801
00:42:24,560 --> 00:42:26,640
Speaker 1: how would you be convinced? What do you need to see?

802
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:31,880
Speaker 1: First of all, I am convinced that Chobani can maintain

803
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 1: its attitude and DNA in a public market or without

804
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,160
Speaker 1: a public market. That's I'm sure that I am. I

805
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:43,520
Speaker 1: am convinced. I think internally the team is ready to

806
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 1: do whatever it needs to be done. I think the

807
00:42:47,680 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 1: external conditions and I'm still talking to advisors and everybody

808
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 1: else in saying, forget about the evaluations and all sorts

809
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:02,480
Speaker 1: of stuff, but they really understand what Chobani is and

810
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: what you're trying to do. Is it just you know,

811
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: another you know food company that you look at it

812
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 1: because we are really outside of the ordinary's food and

813
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:16,080
Speaker 1: CpG companies, and it took us fifteen years to build it.

814
00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 1: And then we say we're going to do this and

815
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:22,319
Speaker 1: usually come to the to the reality. So I think

816
00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: there's some education that you have to do continue to

817
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,480
Speaker 1: do on the on the business front, on the fundamental

818
00:43:27,520 --> 00:43:30,960
Speaker 1: of the business front. Those things are extremely important. And

819
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,880
Speaker 1: I think I'll look at my own personal you know,

820
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 1: I wake up one day and I get excited. On

821
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:42,960
Speaker 1: the other day, I get a wake up. When you're

822
00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: ready to take the plunge, let us know. But I

823
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 1: will definitely deeply curious in the trajectory of your company

824
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,440
Speaker 1: and the mission that you're on here Handy, and I

825
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:52,680
Speaker 1: want to thank you for talking with us about absolutely

826
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 1: how do you look higher the CEO of Chobani, Kayley,

827
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:58,720
Speaker 1: fascinating conversation as we spend time here at the Global

828
00:43:58,760 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 1: Inclusive Growth Summit in Washington. You're listening to The Bloomberg

829
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,319
Speaker 1: Sound on podcast. Catch the program live weekdays at one

830
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:10,640
Speaker 1: Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the Tune in a Half, Bloomberg

831
00:44:10,760 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 1: dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also

832
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,839
Speaker 1: listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York

833
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:22,080
Speaker 1: station Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty. The second

834
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 1: of two expelled lawmakers in Tennessee has been reinstated, Kayley.

835
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:32,000
Speaker 1: This is Justin Pearson, following Justin Jones in being reappointed

836
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 1: by local county commissioners. This is sound of him taking

837
00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 1: the oath once again as a member of this Have

838
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:44,080
Speaker 1: we been reappointed by county commissioners after a Republican supermajority

839
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,040
Speaker 1: kicked him them really out of the House for protesting

840
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:51,640
Speaker 1: over gun violence. This is the official sound. I will

841
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: faithfully support the constitution, support the constitution of this state,

842
00:44:56,040 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 1: of this state, in and of the the United States.

843
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: And there it is. He spoke briefly after being sworn in. Yeah,

844
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:11,200
Speaker 1: getting Reese worn in so closely after he had been

845
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 1: expelled from the Tennessee House, which raises a question of

846
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:19,239
Speaker 1: what was actually accomplished by those lawmakers who expelled him,

847
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:23,680
Speaker 1: other than the political profile of him and the other

848
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,360
Speaker 1: Justin Yeah, both Justin's two of the Tennessee three. Remembering

849
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 1: there was a woman, Gloria Johnson who was not expelled,

850
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 1: and she was the first to say because she was white.

851
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:35,560
Speaker 1: They've been invited to the White House here. I suspect

852
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 1: they'll be in Washington soon. I think they both have

853
00:45:38,160 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: potentially state wide, if not national, political careers. Here's Justin

854
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:52,839
Speaker 1: Pearson after the events today, how to the people, to

855
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:55,760
Speaker 1: people to the people. You know, he made the point

856
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: that the United States as a country built on protests.

857
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: He was thrown out of his seat as a duly

858
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 1: elected member of the legislature for protesting, and we have

859
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 1: to consider all of the hubbub was around the fact

860
00:46:09,440 --> 00:46:11,319
Speaker 1: that they were thrown out for protesting. But they were

861
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,640
Speaker 1: protesting about something specific, and it was the issue of

862
00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:19,239
Speaker 1: gun violence in this country that has occurred tragically in Nationville, Tennessee,

863
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 1: in the past several weeks. Yeah, we'll have more on

864
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 1: this for you. Of course, when news breaks, we bring

865
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:25,840
Speaker 1: it to you here on Bloomberg Radio, and when it's political,

866
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: you know you'll hear about it on Sound On. I'm

867
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 1: Joe Matthew with Kaylee Lines at the Global Inclusive Growth

868
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:35,319
Speaker 1: Summit in downtown Washington, DC as part of IMF and

869
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 1: the World Bank meetings that are taking place across the week.

870
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: Our two of sound On starts right now. You're listening

871
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,600
Speaker 1: to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the program live

872
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,359
Speaker 1: weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app,

873
00:46:51,400 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can

874
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 1: also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New

875
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:03,480
Speaker 1: York station, Just Say Alexa played Bloomberg eleven thirty on

876
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: the Road today live from the Global Inclusive Growth Summit

877
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: in Washington, DC, hosted by the MasterCard Center for Inclusive

878
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:13,399
Speaker 1: Growth and the Aspen Institute. I'm Joe Matthew Indeed here

879
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 1: with Kaylee lines As we have a meeting of the

880
00:47:15,800 --> 00:47:19,000
Speaker 1: minds here in a neighborhood called Logan Circle, and it's

881
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: an event that's adjacent to the IMF and World Bank

882
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,040
Speaker 1: meetings with inclusion and equity as the theme. Yeah, and

883
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:27,600
Speaker 1: it kind of brings to mind this idea of how

884
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,200
Speaker 1: much this neighborhood has changed. I mean, this is a

885
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:33,600
Speaker 1: neighborhood I now live in as a young person inhabiting Washington, DC.

886
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 1: That wasn't always the case in this area. And it

887
00:47:36,640 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: just kind of goes to show you the evolution of

888
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: a city in those who are brought along to partake

889
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: in growth and development at a seeing. Yeah, it's been

890
00:47:44,880 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 1: an important anchor. And this is actually this studio theater

891
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: where this is taking place, has been an important anchor

892
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: in the rejuvenation of this neighborhood, Logan Circle all the

893
00:47:52,960 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 1: way up to the EU Street Corridor. To your point, Kayley,

894
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:58,759
Speaker 1: have been through a lot of tough times. Going back

895
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:02,480
Speaker 1: to the mlkyts in nineteen sixty eight, it took decades

896
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:04,920
Speaker 1: to bring these neighborhoods up to where they are now.

897
00:48:04,960 --> 00:48:06,840
Speaker 1: Frankly one of the hippest parts of town to live in.

898
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: I was going to say, you want to go hit

899
00:48:08,040 --> 00:48:11,759
Speaker 1: up been Chiliball after this, Absolutely, Yes, that's a whole

900
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 1: other remote we're going to talk about. We're going to

901
00:48:13,800 --> 00:48:15,560
Speaker 1: speak a little bit later on with Shamina Saying the

902
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:18,240
Speaker 1: founder and president of the MasterCard Center for Inclusive Growth

903
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:21,000
Speaker 1: in an hour that will bring us a number of

904
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:23,840
Speaker 1: conversations that you're not going to want to miss, including

905
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,640
Speaker 1: later on, Jack Fitzpatrick from Bloomberg Government will be here

906
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,399
Speaker 1: to talk about this new debt ceiling proposal as part

907
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 1: of our conversation, and Dean Rachel Kite of the Fletcher

908
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:36,320
Speaker 1: School at Tufts University will be here to talk geopolitics.

909
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: Near Attendon also joining us from the Biden administration a

910
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,400
Speaker 1: bit later on, as this really is kind of a

911
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 1: meeting of private and government enterprise here to seek solutions, Kaylee,

912
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: to your point, to improve this neighborhood of the city,

913
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: in the country, Yeah, well, in the global economy as

914
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:54,520
Speaker 1: well of course, this an event happening in tandem with

915
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,560
Speaker 1: the IMF and World Bank meetings at a time in

916
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,760
Speaker 1: which there is a real question lingering around the strength

917
00:49:00,120 --> 00:49:03,840
Speaker 1: of that economy amid the myriad of challenges that it faces.

918
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 1: So Credy is here, Actually I should say she's there.

919
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: She's in New York. We wish you were here with us,

920
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:11,719
Speaker 1: Credy Gooped of Markets correspondent at Bloomberg, because we try

921
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: to compare notes with Creedy each day and it's been

922
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:18,680
Speaker 1: interesting the data contests that we've been living through. Creedy

923
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 1: in the latest inflation numbers mean what today for the markets? Well,

924
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,799
Speaker 1: I'm always around Joe floating voice sometimes, but I am

925
00:49:25,840 --> 00:49:28,560
Speaker 1: around a very non creepy way. Look, this is a

926
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 1: tech focused rally one hundred percent, and you're looking at

927
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:33,279
Speaker 1: NASDAC higher by just shive two percent, the SB five

928
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,239
Speaker 1: hundred high by one point two percent. But for me,

929
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:37,359
Speaker 1: I like to look underneath the hood and say, how

930
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 1: much of the rally is just those handful of names,

931
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 1: you know them, the apples, the Microsoft's, of Tesla's, etc.

932
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:46,359
Speaker 1: And based on my very very quick rough math, I'm

933
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 1: looking at about fifty percent of this rally is coming

934
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 1: just from those five names that I just mentioned, So

935
00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:53,759
Speaker 1: it really speaks to the idea that this is not

936
00:49:53,800 --> 00:49:56,520
Speaker 1: necessarily a broad rally and therefore brings up the question

937
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:58,879
Speaker 1: of whether or not so sustainable rally. We should also

938
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:02,479
Speaker 1: talk about volume here, because look, volume hasn't really come back.

939
00:50:02,520 --> 00:50:05,160
Speaker 1: We thought it would after the Easter holiday, and it hasn't.

940
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: Even on a five day basis, You're still seeing volume

941
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: down about five percent on the Dow, which I love

942
00:50:10,040 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: to look at the Dow, by the way, I know

943
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 1: it's a very controversial thing to do, but the reason

944
00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,680
Speaker 1: is because it's a price weighted index. It tells you

945
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:19,399
Speaker 1: where the big money is going, which means the most

946
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,280
Speaker 1: expensive stocks are in the DOO and for that reason,

947
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 1: a great benchmark to say, well, okay, this isn't a

948
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 1: little bit inaccessible almost to the retail group, and therefore

949
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,439
Speaker 1: you can say that even the volume is down there

950
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:34,440
Speaker 1: as well. So that's my hot take on the stock market.

951
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:37,200
Speaker 1: Got it. Yeah, I'm just here pulling up the members

952
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,320
Speaker 1: of the Dow, looking at some of those big weighted guys,

953
00:50:40,320 --> 00:50:42,919
Speaker 1: one of them being a JP Morgan, Chase Creedy. As

954
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: we're having all these conversations around the economy and around inflation.

955
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:47,959
Speaker 1: Big banks are probably going to be a big tell

956
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:49,719
Speaker 1: on the trajectory of where we go next, and we

957
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 1: start getting those tomorrow. They absolutely are. And look, there's

958
00:50:52,480 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: a lot of different ways you can look at the banks.

959
00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:58,879
Speaker 1: My favorite gauge is trading profit and because it really

960
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:03,360
Speaker 1: speaks to volatility. When you have a very volatile market,

961
00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:06,840
Speaker 1: Traders at JP, Morgan, at Morgan Stanley, Golm Sex, whatever,

962
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,359
Speaker 1: they're not necessarily making their profit on whether or not

963
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,680
Speaker 1: you made money on the stock or on the commodity

964
00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 1: or whatever you're trading. They're trading the volatility because they're

965
00:51:15,239 --> 00:51:17,320
Speaker 1: a market maker. To me, that's the most interesting story

966
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 1: that I like to look at. But of course everyone's

967
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 1: going to keep a eye on what Jamie Diamond says

968
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:23,000
Speaker 1: when it comes to the economy, and also, of course

969
00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:25,479
Speaker 1: those loan loss provisions. And we just had Betsy Grays

970
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:29,440
Speaker 1: from Morgan Stanley talk about these banker arnings and she

971
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: said it is all about deposit flows. If indeed all

972
00:51:32,719 --> 00:51:34,880
Speaker 1: of these kind of community banks or regional banks that

973
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 1: have really seen that kind of flight to quality, did

974
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 1: the big banks kind of fill that void? And are

975
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 1: they now sitting on way more cash and way more

976
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:46,240
Speaker 1: deposit than before. Creety, this is a market that seems

977
00:51:46,239 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 1: to have decided that inflation has peaked, and the data

978
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 1: points we've seen this week would reinforce that view. But

979
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 1: as we've discussed yesterday, oil prices are making life potentially

980
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: more difficult to hear. The idea of higher gas prices

981
00:51:58,560 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 1: this summer could motivate the FED to decide that guess what,

982
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,200
Speaker 1: it hasn't peaked. Where's the market then? Yeah? I mean

983
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: eighty six handle on Brent crude. And I think we

984
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:08,120
Speaker 1: talked about this yesterday and kind of how oil is

985
00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 1: kind of like birthdays right where you're just scarily close

986
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:13,200
Speaker 1: to one hundred dollars oil the way you just round

987
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 1: up or round down depending on what side of I

988
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 1: don't know, thirty forty you are. It's important to keep

989
00:52:18,440 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 1: in mind, I think when you look at the oil piece,

990
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 1: but it's something that's not being priced into the market

991
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:25,320
Speaker 1: at the moment. I think something that in the commodity

992
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: space that is more of a red flag is the

993
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,800
Speaker 1: gold prices. Take a look at gold right now, twenty

994
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 1: forty three. The all time record on gold is twenty sixty.

995
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: We are quick math there seventeen seventeen basis points or whatever,

996
00:52:41,920 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: or seventeen points away from that, and that's a pretty

997
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:47,640
Speaker 1: scary place to be because there's only two other times

998
00:52:47,640 --> 00:52:50,080
Speaker 1: we've hit that level. The one was in July of

999
00:52:50,160 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: twenty twenty, pre vaccine, still talking about kind of the

1000
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: spread of COVID, especially in the Southern States, you saw

1001
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,440
Speaker 1: that flight to quality. And before that it was the

1002
00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:02,719
Speaker 1: year in debt crisis going back to twenty thirteen. Those

1003
00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:04,640
Speaker 1: are not two places you want to be. And yet

1004
00:53:04,680 --> 00:53:07,760
Speaker 1: we're talking about a resilient consumer, still, a federal reserve

1005
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 1: that's about to end their tightening cycle at least according

1006
00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:13,880
Speaker 1: to the bond market, and gold is at scary high levels.

1007
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:17,479
Speaker 1: That's the one I pay attention to. Well, as we're

1008
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: discussing inflation's market impact as well with crety, let's bring

1009
00:53:21,520 --> 00:53:25,200
Speaker 1: in another inflation expert, Michael McKee, Bloomberg's International Economics and

1010
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 1: Policy correspondent. Is where Joe and I usually are, I

1011
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:32,080
Speaker 1: believe in our DC studios. Yes, Mike, put together the

1012
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 1: PPI data we got earlier today, the CPI data before that,

1013
00:53:36,560 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: the commentary we're getting out of the federal reserve, not

1014
00:53:38,719 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 1: just in the minutes, but in all of the Fed

1015
00:53:40,840 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 1: speak we have gotten. Where are we left? We're left

1016
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 1: asking cretty why people are buying gold if it's supposed

1017
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,319
Speaker 1: to be an inflation hedge because inflation is coming down.

1018
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:52,879
Speaker 1: I mean, there's no question inflation is coming down. It's

1019
00:53:52,880 --> 00:53:55,319
Speaker 1: a question of how fast it's going to come down,

1020
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 1: how lumpy it's going to be, and how long it

1021
00:53:57,760 --> 00:53:59,920
Speaker 1: will take the Fed to get back where it wants

1022
00:54:00,080 --> 00:54:02,399
Speaker 1: to be, or at least feel that it's on track

1023
00:54:02,480 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 1: to be. The Consumer Price Index came in about as

1024
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,759
Speaker 1: expected yesterday, although we did see a little bit of

1025
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:12,880
Speaker 1: a drop in rent prices, which pressages some greater drop

1026
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 1: going forward in housing, which is the biggest component of

1027
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:18,800
Speaker 1: the CPI. And then the PPI today came in actually

1028
00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:22,680
Speaker 1: negative for the month, both for headline and core, and

1029
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 1: the headline year over year number fell from four point

1030
00:54:26,320 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: nine percent to two point seven percent, so definitely some

1031
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 1: progress there. Now the question is going to be, as

1032
00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 1: we go along, does this continue, because a lot of

1033
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:38,120
Speaker 1: what happened with the PPI was the drop in energy

1034
00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 1: prices that we know now has reversed, so a lot

1035
00:54:42,320 --> 00:54:44,560
Speaker 1: of the talk yesterday Kaylee, and I'd be curious to

1036
00:54:44,600 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: hear Michael weigh in on This is just the different

1037
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 1: stories we're hearing from different parts of town. Whether you're

1038
00:54:49,040 --> 00:54:52,439
Speaker 1: hearing from the Fed, Michael, the IMF, or the administration,

1039
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: it sounds like a different story when it comes to

1040
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:58,240
Speaker 1: the impact of inflation or whether we're heading for a recession.

1041
00:54:58,239 --> 00:55:01,799
Speaker 1: The White House did not buy that forecast that came

1042
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,719
Speaker 1: from the Fed staff this week. Would you would you

1043
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 1: have bought? You know? The Fed staff said, this was

1044
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: three weeks ago, remember, right at the height of the

1045
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 1: banking I don't want to use words banking tensions, as

1046
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:21,200
Speaker 1: the FED called it. And so they modeled what would

1047
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 1: happen if there was a significant increase in credit standards

1048
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:27,359
Speaker 1: by the banks, and they said that would put us

1049
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:30,880
Speaker 1: likely into recession. They changed their forecast. Now, the Board

1050
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 1: and the members of the Open Market Committee decided not

1051
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,879
Speaker 1: to go with that forecast and decided to raise rates

1052
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 1: anyway because they felt inflation was a bigger danger. And

1053
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:43,839
Speaker 1: whether the staff would say the same thing today, we

1054
00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:46,239
Speaker 1: don't know, And whether they would say it after we

1055
00:55:46,320 --> 00:55:48,640
Speaker 1: get the bank earnings and we find out what they're

1056
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 1: saying about credit. We don't know. Recession is sort of

1057
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:55,640
Speaker 1: the base case for a lot of economists out there,

1058
00:55:56,000 --> 00:55:58,759
Speaker 1: but we haven't got proof that it's happening yet. Tune

1059
00:55:58,800 --> 00:56:00,920
Speaker 1: in tomorrow for the retail sale numbers. Those could be

1060
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 1: interesting to see if we've slipped back, if americans enthusiasm

1061
00:56:05,239 --> 00:56:09,239
Speaker 1: for spending has cooled a bit. But right now things

1062
00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,359
Speaker 1: aren't looking too bad. Killey MasterCard is feeling pretty good

1063
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: about consumer spending right when we're talking. So I'm like,

1064
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:16,839
Speaker 1: from a little bit, that was the indication that they're

1065
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 1: seeing a certain level of resilience. I guess it's just

1066
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 1: a question of how long that resilience can be maintained

1067
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:26,839
Speaker 1: if we are seeing a continued softening and inflation coming down.

1068
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:29,400
Speaker 1: But when we're talking about the pace of inflation slowing,

1069
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,840
Speaker 1: it's not that prices are actually going down. In many cases,

1070
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 1: they're just not going up quite as fast. I mean, Mike,

1071
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:38,720
Speaker 1: do we properly make that distinction when we're thinking about

1072
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 1: this longer time? Yeah, that's something I'm going to be

1073
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,600
Speaker 1: dealing with elevated prices. We are talking about the second

1074
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 1: derivative as they say that the speed in which you

1075
00:56:46,360 --> 00:56:54,360
Speaker 1: sound like Tom Keane precentage changes. Oh, please cret but yeah,

1076
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,360
Speaker 1: I mean we did see a decline in the PPI.

1077
00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:01,160
Speaker 1: They were actually down negative the month, but the CPI

1078
00:57:01,680 --> 00:57:06,680
Speaker 1: the just the rate of change got slower, the acceleration slowed,

1079
00:57:07,200 --> 00:57:10,799
Speaker 1: but it was still rising. Now, you're always usually going

1080
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 1: to have some increase in inflation, it's just got to

1081
00:57:13,520 --> 00:57:16,600
Speaker 1: be small enough that keeps it around that two percent target.

1082
00:57:16,640 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 1: And that's what the Fed's been looking at. I don't

1083
00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: know if if you guys page your taxes are gotten

1084
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:24,680
Speaker 1: your refunds yet spot, Yeah, do you really want to

1085
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:27,160
Speaker 1: get into that. Well, the Bank of America has a

1086
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:31,200
Speaker 1: no doubt today or yesterday that said they think retail

1087
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 1: sales may actually slow because the IRS process twenty five

1088
00:57:35,240 --> 00:57:39,520
Speaker 1: billion dollars fewer refunds in March than they did in

1089
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: March a year ago. Now, whether that's because there were

1090
00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:45,080
Speaker 1: fewer people working, or because they weren't getting paid as much,

1091
00:57:45,200 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: or which would go against what we know, or people

1092
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:52,040
Speaker 1: are just waiting to file their taxes, we also don't know.

1093
00:57:52,120 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: But they were saying because maybe people didn't have as

1094
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:57,480
Speaker 1: much money in their pockets, they didn't spend as much.

1095
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 1: So it's a theory for what we might see. That's

1096
00:58:00,880 --> 00:58:03,320
Speaker 1: not a good story for the market here, Creedy. I mean,

1097
00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: investors are pretty obsessed with the strength of the consumer

1098
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: right now, because that is the economy at the moment,

1099
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:09,720
Speaker 1: isn't it. It absolutely is. And you know, just when

1100
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 1: I was about to tell you about the second derivative,

1101
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:14,400
Speaker 1: shamed out of it. You give us a few standard

1102
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,960
Speaker 1: deviations here, Creedy, come on, just do it. No, I

1103
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:20,480
Speaker 1: refuse because Kaylee is gonna, you know, give me so

1104
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:23,840
Speaker 1: much crap for it. No. Look, I think when you're

1105
00:58:23,880 --> 00:58:26,280
Speaker 1: talking about whether these markets are really trading on the

1106
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 1: economy the idea, I mean, the simple answer is no.

1107
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:32,440
Speaker 1: But yes, I mean yes in theory, but no really,

1108
00:58:32,480 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 1: because look, we've been talking about this recession around the

1109
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 1: corner for two years now. This was the conversation in

1110
00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,520
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one that we were going to come post COVID,

1111
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 1: we were going to deal with these supply chain issues,

1112
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:44,200
Speaker 1: and the supply chain issues were going to be so

1113
00:58:44,240 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 1: bad that we were going to hit recession and there

1114
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,959
Speaker 1: was this kind of inevitability to it. We haven't seen

1115
00:58:49,040 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 1: that yet, and I think the range of forecasts here,

1116
00:58:51,080 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 1: and we're talking to Mike McKee on this Bloomer television

1117
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:57,720
Speaker 1: are so wide as early as July to as late

1118
00:58:57,720 --> 00:59:00,120
Speaker 1: as twenty twenty five, and you still haven't seen the

1119
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:03,400
Speaker 1: consumer really give the way it needs to give for

1120
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:06,840
Speaker 1: a recession to fully take hold. And what I mean

1121
00:59:06,840 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 1: by that is simply that, yes there's deceleration, Yes there's

1122
00:59:10,440 --> 00:59:13,320
Speaker 1: a slowing second derivative, if you will, but the margin

1123
00:59:13,360 --> 00:59:16,400
Speaker 1: of the move is still too slow to really be concerned.

1124
00:59:16,480 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 1: Yet we're not there the way we were in two

1125
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:21,080
Speaker 1: thousand and eight, two thousand and one, nineteen ninety four,

1126
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: like name your recession. We're not seeing the drop yet

1127
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:28,320
Speaker 1: and so therefore the timeline is hazy at best. Bloomberg Markets,

1128
00:59:28,320 --> 00:59:31,320
Speaker 1: corresponding Crety Gupta in New York, Michael McKee with this

1129
00:59:32,080 --> 00:59:35,000
Speaker 1: Economics editor of course in Washington, d C. Many thanks

1130
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:37,240
Speaker 1: to both of you for the insights as we join

1131
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:40,360
Speaker 1: you live from the Global Inclusive Summit. Easy for me

1132
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:44,200
Speaker 1: to say here in Washington, d C. It's sponsored in

1133
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 1: part by MasterCard, Kayley and the Aspen Institute, and we

1134
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:49,240
Speaker 1: have an opportunity to spend some time now with Shamina

1135
00:59:49,360 --> 00:59:52,760
Speaker 1: Saying is one of the forces and organizers behind this event.

1136
00:59:52,800 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 1: As the founder and President of the MasterCard Center for

1137
00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:58,720
Speaker 1: Inclusive Growth, Shamia, It's great to see you. Welcome to

1138
00:59:58,720 --> 01:00:01,320
Speaker 1: Bloomberg than thank you for coming. A lot of people

1139
01:00:01,360 --> 01:00:04,520
Speaker 1: are probably not aware that MasterCard has a Center for

1140
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:07,120
Speaker 1: Inclusive Growth. This is what you do all day and

1141
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:09,760
Speaker 1: I know you're down from New York. You travel the country,

1142
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:13,160
Speaker 1: you travel the world in this effort. But tell us

1143
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:18,200
Speaker 1: what your charge is, what brings you to work every day? Yeah, well,

1144
01:00:18,920 --> 01:00:22,320
Speaker 1: I think the urgent challenges is facing the world sort

1145
01:00:22,320 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 1: of keeps me up at night and brings me to work.

1146
01:00:24,320 --> 01:00:28,160
Speaker 1: You're right. MasterCard is unique in that it did create

1147
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:31,600
Speaker 1: the MasterCard Center for Inclusive Growth, which is really charged

1148
01:00:31,680 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 1: with a focus on equitable and sustainable economic growth and

1149
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 1: financial inclusion around the world. But the way we do

1150
01:00:40,480 --> 01:00:43,280
Speaker 1: it is also pretty unique, and that is we sort

1151
01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 1: of move beyond traditional philanthropy to really harness the inherent

1152
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:52,800
Speaker 1: assets of MasterCard and turn those in service of people

1153
01:00:52,840 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 1: and the planet. Okay, so tell me how to do that.

1154
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:58,600
Speaker 1: Because equity is a big theme obviously of this summit here,

1155
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 1: but it's also been an elusive for a lot of

1156
01:01:00,760 --> 01:01:03,600
Speaker 1: people who talk about this, and it's something that Bloomberg

1157
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:06,760
Speaker 1: has been invested in, Yes, you have been. Is it

1158
01:01:06,800 --> 01:01:10,960
Speaker 1: elusive for you, Well, it may be elusive in construct

1159
01:01:11,000 --> 01:01:14,560
Speaker 1: but in implementation it's not. In fact, we can't let

1160
01:01:14,560 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 1: it be. So if you think about MasterCard technology and

1161
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: MasterCard Network, we're in over two hundred and ten markets,

1162
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 1: so our ability to scale solutions that are aligned with

1163
01:01:26,520 --> 01:01:30,480
Speaker 1: our business strategy have enormous weight and enormous impact. And

1164
01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:33,120
Speaker 1: that's really why we as a company are focused on

1165
01:01:33,160 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 1: what we do best, which is around financial inclusion, which

1166
01:01:37,320 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 1: to anybody who might be just listening for the first time,

1167
01:01:40,720 --> 01:01:45,160
Speaker 1: is this idea that it's better to transact and to

1168
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:48,920
Speaker 1: participate in a formal financial system where you have the

1169
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:53,320
Speaker 1: protection of regulation versus outside of a system that might

1170
01:01:53,360 --> 01:01:58,080
Speaker 1: be running on cash or might be running on in

1171
01:01:58,160 --> 01:02:01,920
Speaker 1: ways that don't really allow full protections of say a

1172
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:05,240
Speaker 1: regulated bank account or something like that. We're here in

1173
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:11,440
Speaker 1: downtown Washington were the unbanked are frequently thought of, and

1174
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:16,120
Speaker 1: when you consider solutions, does fintech help bring you closer

1175
01:02:16,280 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 1: to reaching those people, to providing access to banking services.

1176
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 1: Fintech is absolutely a wonderful partner to have. It's another

1177
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:27,600
Speaker 1: lever in the toolkit to ensure that people not only survive,

1178
01:02:28,000 --> 01:02:30,760
Speaker 1: but thrive in the digital economy. I mean, Joe, remember

1179
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 1: what happened during COVID. It may for some people feel

1180
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:36,480
Speaker 1: like a long time ago, but you know, the pandemic

1181
01:02:36,960 --> 01:02:40,160
Speaker 1: shut everything down. So if you were somebody or if

1182
01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:43,120
Speaker 1: you were a business who didn't have the ability to

1183
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:47,480
Speaker 1: transact digitally, yes, right through phone or through internet, or

1184
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:50,959
Speaker 1: if you didn't have digital access, it was really tough

1185
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:53,920
Speaker 1: going for you. And so what we're trying to remember

1186
01:02:54,000 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 1: every day is that disconnection is not going to serve people. Well,

1187
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:03,880
Speaker 1: it's really expensive to be poor the United States and

1188
01:03:04,000 --> 01:03:06,400
Speaker 1: around the world. So what kind of solutions are you

1189
01:03:06,440 --> 01:03:08,959
Speaker 1: talking about today? You've got Melinda Gates talking on one floor,

1190
01:03:09,000 --> 01:03:11,800
Speaker 1: You've got Trevor Noah on another. The idea is to

1191
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:14,919
Speaker 1: get more than a photo op out of this. Absolutely,

1192
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:17,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I think what we're seeing today but really

1193
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:20,439
Speaker 1: has been I think ten years in the making since

1194
01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 1: the center was first conceived at MasterCard. Is this idea

1195
01:03:24,360 --> 01:03:27,959
Speaker 1: that we have to focus on partnerships if we're going

1196
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:31,640
Speaker 1: to solve the problems of today. So this is really

1197
01:03:31,680 --> 01:03:36,160
Speaker 1: about moving from silos to solutions. And in that conversation

1198
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:39,280
Speaker 1: with those who have resources, such as Melinda Gates and

1199
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:43,240
Speaker 1: the Gates Foundation, Trevor Noah who's using using his influenced

1200
01:03:43,520 --> 01:03:46,480
Speaker 1: platform in the Trevor Noah Foundation. We had Lily Singh

1201
01:03:46,560 --> 01:03:50,400
Speaker 1: here earlier, who is a big social impact influencer. But

1202
01:03:50,440 --> 01:03:53,640
Speaker 1: then we also have Michael Bibach, the CEO of MasterCard.

1203
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:57,360
Speaker 1: We have Hans Vesberg, the CEO Verizon. We have Hummilukaya,

1204
01:03:57,480 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 1: the CEO of Chabani. We have Donald Cavaruca, former leader

1205
01:04:01,800 --> 01:04:05,160
Speaker 1: of the Africa Development Bank. We have Sir Mark Malick

1206
01:04:05,200 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 1: Brown who used to obviously vibes, the UN Secretary General,

1207
01:04:08,680 --> 01:04:11,840
Speaker 1: UK Minister. So what you're seeing is you have all

1208
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 1: of these leaders coming together sort of shedding their public

1209
01:04:15,680 --> 01:04:20,640
Speaker 1: sector titles, their private sector titles, their social sector titles,

1210
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:23,560
Speaker 1: and saying, as human beings that people who want to

1211
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:27,040
Speaker 1: preserve the planet, how are we going to be able

1212
01:04:27,040 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 1: to use our superpowers to do this together? Okay, so

1213
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:32,560
Speaker 1: you get all these powerful people in a room sharing

1214
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:36,919
Speaker 1: big ideas, how do you leave with something actionable? So

1215
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:41,360
Speaker 1: they're sharing ideas, but they're actually sharing their practical solutions.

1216
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:44,480
Speaker 1: So this is really a solution summit. It's we have

1217
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:48,560
Speaker 1: it in partnership with the Aspen Institute and DEBX, because

1218
01:04:48,600 --> 01:04:51,960
Speaker 1: we wanted to really make sure that the conversations didn't

1219
01:04:51,960 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 1: stay conversations. They actually are contracts if you will to

1220
01:04:57,040 --> 01:05:00,360
Speaker 1: continue the work and actually put it into practical reality

1221
01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:03,000
Speaker 1: on the ground. And I say that because we also

1222
01:05:03,120 --> 01:05:07,440
Speaker 1: have people like Chipna Sindha here and who started a

1223
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:11,560
Speaker 1: rural women's bank in rural India, and so she heared

1224
01:05:11,600 --> 01:05:14,920
Speaker 1: to make sure that as we're having conversations that with

1225
01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:18,520
Speaker 1: high level individuals, she's constantly making sure that we are

1226
01:05:18,560 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 1: inclusive by design and bringing the voice of women in

1227
01:05:23,080 --> 01:05:26,280
Speaker 1: India to the table. We have in Hindu Ibraheim here,

1228
01:05:26,320 --> 01:05:30,440
Speaker 1: who represents the indigenous people of Chad and around the world.

1229
01:05:30,480 --> 01:05:33,240
Speaker 1: She spoke this morning. So we're really trying to make

1230
01:05:33,280 --> 01:05:36,480
Speaker 1: sure that we are inclusive and having all of the

1231
01:05:36,560 --> 01:05:40,920
Speaker 1: voices in conversation to really ensure that we have collective impacts.

1232
01:05:40,960 --> 01:05:46,240
Speaker 1: You articulated the disparities that we saw exposed because of COVID. Yes,

1233
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:49,240
Speaker 1: is that partly why we're here in Logan Circle today,

1234
01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 1: because this is still a city that's recovering from the pandemic. Yes,

1235
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 1: I mean Washington, DC is iconic for many reasons. Obviously

1236
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:02,000
Speaker 1: it's the nation's capital, but it's also a city that

1237
01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:06,640
Speaker 1: represents all that's possible when you bring all of the

1238
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 1: assets together. So here you have government, you have development

1239
01:06:10,520 --> 01:06:13,840
Speaker 1: happening right here in the US Street Quarter. I lived

1240
01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:17,040
Speaker 1: just down the street for many years and this is

1241
01:06:17,080 --> 01:06:21,200
Speaker 1: an area that is vibrant and part of the work

1242
01:06:21,200 --> 01:06:24,680
Speaker 1: that we did, frankly with we just released our Inclusive

1243
01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:29,280
Speaker 1: Growth Score Report, which is proprietary master Card data coupled

1244
01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:32,680
Speaker 1: with publicly available data to tell the story of places

1245
01:06:32,720 --> 01:06:36,400
Speaker 1: like Washington, d C. From a purchasing power perspective. And

1246
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:40,120
Speaker 1: that's what's interesting about Logan Circle is over ten years

1247
01:06:40,120 --> 01:06:45,400
Speaker 1: ago Washington DC economists uncovered the purchasing power and said,

1248
01:06:45,760 --> 01:06:48,960
Speaker 1: there is a lot of value for the people who

1249
01:06:49,000 --> 01:06:51,880
Speaker 1: are living here. We have to unleash it and unlock it.

1250
01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:55,520
Speaker 1: And that's why we're here today. Sheman is seeing the

1251
01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:59,080
Speaker 1: founder and president of the MasterCard Center for Inclusive Growth

1252
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:03,360
Speaker 1: here the Global Inclusive Growth Summit in Washington, d C.

1253
01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:06,360
Speaker 1: I'm Joe Matthew along with Kaylee Lines in Washington. We're

1254
01:07:06,400 --> 01:07:08,280
Speaker 1: on the road to bring you conversations like these and

1255
01:07:08,360 --> 01:07:10,720
Speaker 1: a lot more to follow. We'll talk next with Bloomberg

1256
01:07:10,800 --> 01:07:13,600
Speaker 1: Government's Jack Fitzpatrick, who has breaking news on the budget

1257
01:07:13,600 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 1: debate here and the efforts to deal with the debt ceiling.

1258
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:21,520
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound On podcast. Catch the

1259
01:07:21,560 --> 01:07:25,400
Speaker 1: program live weekdays at one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the

1260
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App.

1261
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,800
Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our

1262
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:38,960
Speaker 1: flagship New York station, Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

1263
01:07:39,760 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 1: We left the building to bring you a special broadcast

1264
01:07:42,440 --> 01:07:45,720
Speaker 1: today from the Global Inclusive Growth Summit here in Washington, DC,

1265
01:07:45,920 --> 01:07:48,640
Speaker 1: hosted by the MasterCard Center for Inclusive Growth and the

1266
01:07:48,720 --> 01:07:53,720
Speaker 1: Aspen Institute, part of IMF Week here in Washington. And

1267
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:57,800
Speaker 1: everyone's cracking one right now, Kaylee, it must be lunchtime here, Well,

1268
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:01,200
Speaker 1: it absolutely is. We're in Logan's Circle if you know

1269
01:08:01,280 --> 01:08:05,439
Speaker 1: Washington very well, if the Iconic Studio theater. And look

1270
01:08:05,440 --> 01:08:07,440
Speaker 1: who's joining us here. Our friend Jack is with us,

1271
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:11,040
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Government's Jack Fitzpatrick, who's been awfully busy the last

1272
01:08:11,040 --> 01:08:13,800
Speaker 1: twenty four hours. Kaylee. We spoke earlier with our panel

1273
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 1: Rick and Jeanie about this potential for a debt limit deal,

1274
01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:18,519
Speaker 1: and of course you can't have that, I guess without

1275
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:21,799
Speaker 1: a deal on spending. And well that's where Jack comes in. Yeah,

1276
01:08:21,840 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 1: I guess this is the question as we await the

1277
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:26,880
Speaker 1: return of lawmakers to Capitol Hill after a multi week

1278
01:08:27,560 --> 01:08:31,759
Speaker 1: recess here. So Jack, obviously they're coming back in theory,

1279
01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:34,479
Speaker 1: they're going to do some work. This is a deadline

1280
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 1: that is hanging over their heads and looming. They're trying

1281
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:38,600
Speaker 1: to tie these two things together. And you have some

1282
01:08:38,640 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 1: news for us today. Yes, So the latest and credit

1283
01:08:42,040 --> 01:08:45,120
Speaker 1: to our colleagues Eric Watson and Billy House for confirming this,

1284
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:48,200
Speaker 1: is that there's going to be a House Republican bill

1285
01:08:48,600 --> 01:08:51,599
Speaker 1: on the debt limit that would either increase or suspend

1286
01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:55,080
Speaker 1: it long enough to get into May of next year. Now,

1287
01:08:55,200 --> 01:08:57,519
Speaker 1: the demands that they attached to that they had already

1288
01:08:57,560 --> 01:09:00,519
Speaker 1: been pretty clear about. They want a cap discretionary spending

1289
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:04,160
Speaker 1: the non defense stuff. It seems there's still some details

1290
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:10,120
Speaker 1: to be worked out there, clawing back unspent COVID funds,

1291
01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:14,040
Speaker 1: stricter work requirements for things like medicaid. It's the stuff

1292
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:16,000
Speaker 1: that they've talked about and they've made it clear we

1293
01:09:16,000 --> 01:09:19,280
Speaker 1: don't want to touch entitlements in this deal, but they're

1294
01:09:19,400 --> 01:09:23,760
Speaker 1: essentially outlining what could be roughly a year ish long deal.

1295
01:09:23,840 --> 01:09:25,960
Speaker 1: Of course that when they get to the end of

1296
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:28,960
Speaker 1: that year they're talking about May, there's still extraordinary measures,

1297
01:09:29,000 --> 01:09:31,320
Speaker 1: so there's some questions left to be answered, But that's

1298
01:09:31,400 --> 01:09:34,600
Speaker 1: essentially the outline that they're preparing to put into a

1299
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:37,280
Speaker 1: piece of legislation in the near future. So May twenty

1300
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:40,360
Speaker 1: twenty four, that's sort of the headline here. It's not

1301
01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 1: clear when there'd be a deal struck. But you know,

1302
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:46,599
Speaker 1: we've been reporting the fact that Kevin McCarthy hasn't spoken

1303
01:09:46,600 --> 01:09:48,960
Speaker 1: with Joe Biden since I believe the first of February.

1304
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:51,360
Speaker 1: So is this going to land with a thud on

1305
01:09:51,400 --> 01:09:53,720
Speaker 1: the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue. Oh, I'm sure the

1306
01:09:53,800 --> 01:09:56,720
Speaker 1: initial offer by Republicans will land with a thud with

1307
01:09:57,080 --> 01:10:00,280
Speaker 1: almost any Democrats. But you might consider it a bit

1308
01:10:00,320 --> 01:10:03,320
Speaker 1: of a success by Biden because he waited and said,

1309
01:10:03,760 --> 01:10:06,320
Speaker 1: show me a bill, show me something specific before I

1310
01:10:06,360 --> 01:10:08,640
Speaker 1: start to compromise. I'm not going to compromise until I

1311
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:11,840
Speaker 1: know exactly what you're campaigning on. He seems to have

1312
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:16,400
Speaker 1: gotten McCarthy to say all right, here are the legislative specifics,

1313
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:19,120
Speaker 1: and that can start a process of trying to meet

1314
01:10:19,160 --> 01:10:22,240
Speaker 1: in the middle. That reflects a little bit of maybe

1315
01:10:22,479 --> 01:10:26,599
Speaker 1: antiness among Republicans. Kevin Hearne, the Republican Study Committee Large

1316
01:10:26,640 --> 01:10:30,599
Speaker 1: Caucus chairman, had said publicly, I really want to vote

1317
01:10:30,600 --> 01:10:33,200
Speaker 1: on a bill of ours by the end of April.

1318
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:36,080
Speaker 1: So the game of chicken is ending, and now they're

1319
01:10:36,080 --> 01:10:39,719
Speaker 1: getting closer to real negotiations to try to find a compromise. Okay,

1320
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:41,120
Speaker 1: so you said the end of April. I mean, what

1321
01:10:41,240 --> 01:10:45,799
Speaker 1: are we actually talking about here in terms of days weeks?

1322
01:10:46,560 --> 01:10:49,680
Speaker 1: The deadline. The latest we've gotten in an official capacity

1323
01:10:49,720 --> 01:10:51,880
Speaker 1: is the deadline is going to be sometime between July

1324
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:57,679
Speaker 1: and September for the actual xodate. Now, we will probably

1325
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:00,840
Speaker 1: get some sort of update in the relatively near future,

1326
01:11:00,880 --> 01:11:03,040
Speaker 1: at least by a think tank or somebody, because after

1327
01:11:03,040 --> 01:11:06,160
Speaker 1: we get past tax Day they learn more about the

1328
01:11:06,200 --> 01:11:09,000
Speaker 1: pace of revenues coming in. But that is a big

1329
01:11:09,040 --> 01:11:11,559
Speaker 1: delta between July and September. So there, I think that

1330
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:13,880
Speaker 1: gets to there's a recess in there as well. They

1331
01:11:14,320 --> 01:11:17,720
Speaker 1: had a lot to do this summer and then August.

1332
01:11:18,000 --> 01:11:21,680
Speaker 1: They don't want to cancel their August recess. So you

1333
01:11:21,720 --> 01:11:24,280
Speaker 1: know they're still trying to get ahead of this, and

1334
01:11:24,320 --> 01:11:26,800
Speaker 1: if they could strike a deal in May, that would

1335
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,640
Speaker 1: be the responsible thing to keep markets calm. If it

1336
01:11:29,680 --> 01:11:31,920
Speaker 1: gets too close to what could be the X date,

1337
01:11:32,600 --> 01:11:35,600
Speaker 1: that's when there's a bit of a panicky aspect to

1338
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:38,200
Speaker 1: these negotiations. So we've talked about how the markets have

1339
01:11:38,280 --> 01:11:40,959
Speaker 1: been sort of whistling past the graveyard on this. Assuming

1340
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:43,799
Speaker 1: the bell they always get it done. But we remember

1341
01:11:43,920 --> 01:11:46,920
Speaker 1: twenty eleven and that downgrade that came two weeks before

1342
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:50,000
Speaker 1: the X date, even though we did not defaults. Kevin

1343
01:11:50,080 --> 01:11:53,880
Speaker 1: McCarthy's going to the NYS on Monday to ring the

1344
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:56,719
Speaker 1: not the opening bell, but to ring his own warning

1345
01:11:56,760 --> 01:11:59,759
Speaker 1: bell on Hey, this is going to be a big problem.

1346
01:11:59,760 --> 01:12:02,160
Speaker 1: I just wonder what will be the market sentiment after

1347
01:12:02,200 --> 01:12:03,759
Speaker 1: he goes there is if is he going to spook

1348
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:07,000
Speaker 1: everybody on Wall Street? I doubt he spooks people by

1349
01:12:07,160 --> 01:12:11,040
Speaker 1: talking about this. I think it's reflective of an attempt

1350
01:12:11,200 --> 01:12:14,960
Speaker 1: by Speaker McCarthy to make very clear, here are my parameters.

1351
01:12:15,080 --> 01:12:19,960
Speaker 1: I'm not an unreasonable, unpredictable person. I have these set

1352
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:22,680
Speaker 1: of priorities in these negotiations. You can see that he

1353
01:12:22,720 --> 01:12:27,000
Speaker 1: feels the need to be proactive speaking to the business community.

1354
01:12:27,520 --> 01:12:29,560
Speaker 1: Shout out to Anne Marie Hordern who just had the

1355
01:12:29,840 --> 01:12:32,599
Speaker 1: one on one interviews in California. I think it's pretty

1356
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:36,080
Speaker 1: clear he wants to speak to people who control the

1357
01:12:36,479 --> 01:12:40,479
Speaker 1: sentiment of the markets to say I'm not a wild card.

1358
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:43,120
Speaker 1: I have these priorities, and I want Biden to meet

1359
01:12:43,200 --> 01:12:46,479
Speaker 1: me on those. Well, we're talking about McCarthy's priorities, but

1360
01:12:46,560 --> 01:12:48,519
Speaker 1: are his priorities in line with the rest of his

1361
01:12:48,720 --> 01:12:51,160
Speaker 1: caucus and those that he has to wrangle to actually

1362
01:12:51,200 --> 01:12:55,240
Speaker 1: bring something together. The priorities seem to be pretty similar.

1363
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:58,240
Speaker 1: They I haven't heard a ton of pushback on the substance.

1364
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:02,640
Speaker 1: The process, though, of how to show a unified Republican

1365
01:13:02,760 --> 01:13:06,240
Speaker 1: stance is very difficult. There is going to be I

1366
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:08,760
Speaker 1: mentioned the Republican Study Committee, that's the biggest caucus of

1367
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:11,160
Speaker 1: House Republicans. It's more than three quarters of the caucus.

1368
01:13:11,439 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 1: They are going forward probably in early May, with their

1369
01:13:14,840 --> 01:13:17,840
Speaker 1: own budget plan, and they have told our colleague Emily

1370
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:21,600
Speaker 1: Wilkins that that will get into the entitlement discussions. It

1371
01:13:21,680 --> 01:13:24,120
Speaker 1: could be an increase in the retirement age this is

1372
01:13:24,160 --> 01:13:26,759
Speaker 1: a political document. But the fact that they are putting

1373
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:29,639
Speaker 1: forth those kinds of proposals right around the time they're

1374
01:13:29,680 --> 01:13:32,840
Speaker 1: trying to do a debt limit deal where McCarthy has said, no,

1375
01:13:32,880 --> 01:13:36,640
Speaker 1: we're not touching entitlements, it's not exactly a chorus that

1376
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:40,080
Speaker 1: is singing perfectly in unison. Well, look, we spent a

1377
01:13:40,120 --> 01:13:42,960
Speaker 1: lot of time during the speaker battle to suggest that

1378
01:13:42,960 --> 01:13:45,840
Speaker 1: there were various factions in the Republican House that we're

1379
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:48,439
Speaker 1: never going to get along, and that Kevin McCarthy may

1380
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:50,759
Speaker 1: well get fired, that there'd be a motion to vacate

1381
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:52,800
Speaker 1: if he cut a deal on this. Everyone has a

1382
01:13:52,800 --> 01:13:54,760
Speaker 1: different answer to this question right now. But has Kevin

1383
01:13:54,840 --> 01:13:57,880
Speaker 1: McCarthy at least strengthened his hand to the point where

1384
01:13:57,880 --> 01:14:00,880
Speaker 1: that's not such a risk. I don't he has strengthened

1385
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:04,120
Speaker 1: his hand to any significant degree since he got the

1386
01:14:04,200 --> 01:14:07,320
Speaker 1: votes to be speaker, which was in itself an accomplishment

1387
01:14:07,320 --> 01:14:10,280
Speaker 1: and kind of a chance for Republicans to figure out

1388
01:14:10,320 --> 01:14:13,280
Speaker 1: how to work together. That was a good moment for him.

1389
01:14:13,920 --> 01:14:16,280
Speaker 1: Since then, it's been kind of messy. There's been a

1390
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:18,800
Speaker 1: real back and forth about is there going to be

1391
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:23,800
Speaker 1: a Republican bill getting pressured by various factions in the

1392
01:14:23,840 --> 01:14:26,800
Speaker 1: Republican Party to put out something more specific rather than

1393
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:29,519
Speaker 1: sort of keeping his cards close to his chest in

1394
01:14:29,560 --> 01:14:33,639
Speaker 1: these talks with the President. There's been some messiness between

1395
01:14:33,800 --> 01:14:36,200
Speaker 1: him and the Budget Chairman, Jody Errington. There is a

1396
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:39,160
Speaker 1: New York Times report that McCarthy had said he had

1397
01:14:39,240 --> 01:14:42,320
Speaker 1: essentially lost faith in his budget chairman and in Steve Scalise.

1398
01:14:43,200 --> 01:14:46,840
Speaker 1: It's gotten messy. They don't absolutely disagree with him on

1399
01:14:46,920 --> 01:14:51,479
Speaker 1: the substance, but this process led by McCarthy has been

1400
01:14:51,840 --> 01:14:53,840
Speaker 1: pretty tough, and they can only afford to lose four

1401
01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:56,160
Speaker 1: votes before they don't have a majority. So it's going

1402
01:14:56,200 --> 01:15:00,320
Speaker 1: to be tough throughout whether he succeeds or fails really well, actually,

1403
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:03,439
Speaker 1: when there's so many other distracting issues out there. Obviously

1404
01:15:03,479 --> 01:15:05,679
Speaker 1: the debt ceiling is a major one, but you also

1405
01:15:05,760 --> 01:15:08,960
Speaker 1: have the issues of the Judiciary Committee going for a

1406
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:11,719
Speaker 1: field hearing in New York this week focusing on Alvin

1407
01:15:11,720 --> 01:15:13,640
Speaker 1: Bragg and the Trump and Diamond. I mean, it just

1408
01:15:13,680 --> 01:15:17,160
Speaker 1: seems like eyeballs aren't necessarily on one ball in particular,

1409
01:15:17,160 --> 01:15:19,360
Speaker 1: they're everywhere. Yeah, that was always going to be a

1410
01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:23,559
Speaker 1: challenge for Republicans, is the message you send and the

1411
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:26,720
Speaker 1: degree to which it is focused on governing and the

1412
01:15:26,760 --> 01:15:29,240
Speaker 1: economy and checking off the list of we need to

1413
01:15:29,240 --> 01:15:30,800
Speaker 1: do something on the debt limit, we need to fund

1414
01:15:30,880 --> 01:15:36,160
Speaker 1: the government, we need to accomplish these budgetary priorities, versus

1415
01:15:36,160 --> 01:15:40,599
Speaker 1: sort of Trump related a feud with Alvin Bragg, you know,

1416
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:43,880
Speaker 1: is some of the focus that plays into the presidential

1417
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:47,679
Speaker 1: race on transgender kids. There are a lot of things

1418
01:15:47,720 --> 01:15:51,000
Speaker 1: that a number of Republicans care a lot about that

1419
01:15:51,160 --> 01:15:55,800
Speaker 1: are more social issues that have to some degree distract

1420
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:59,320
Speaker 1: from the core economic message that plays into this debt

1421
01:15:59,320 --> 01:16:02,879
Speaker 1: limit debate. You know. Another one of those is DC crime,

1422
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:06,759
Speaker 1: and I understand that the mayor of Washington, Murial Bowser,

1423
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:10,280
Speaker 1: has agreed to testify before the Oversight Committee on this.

1424
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:12,559
Speaker 1: Where's this going? It seemed like a fight that had

1425
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:15,000
Speaker 1: been resolved when the President decided to sign that DC

1426
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:16,840
Speaker 1: crime bill, but this is still in the air. They

1427
01:16:16,880 --> 01:16:19,080
Speaker 1: want to have an investigation of some sort. Yeah, some

1428
01:16:19,160 --> 01:16:22,479
Speaker 1: of that probably is politics, and that is a major

1429
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:24,680
Speaker 1: thing that Republicans are not going to drop. That's not

1430
01:16:24,760 --> 01:16:27,439
Speaker 1: as niche an issue as some other social issues that

1431
01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:30,559
Speaker 1: the battle over crime in America again, back to New

1432
01:16:30,600 --> 01:16:35,599
Speaker 1: York on Monday, right. Exactly, there are legislative opportunities for

1433
01:16:35,640 --> 01:16:39,439
Speaker 1: them to get at that. Because DC is basically their

1434
01:16:39,479 --> 01:16:41,880
Speaker 1: government is funded through the federal government. They have to

1435
01:16:41,920 --> 01:16:47,759
Speaker 1: negotiate exactly funding restrictions for the District of Columbia. Congress

1436
01:16:47,880 --> 01:16:50,960
Speaker 1: is pretty involved if they want to be in the

1437
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:54,680
Speaker 1: governance of the District of Columbia. So that's not necessarily

1438
01:16:55,000 --> 01:16:58,400
Speaker 1: entirely a symbolic issue. But I do think the politics

1439
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:02,200
Speaker 1: of crime and both parties trying to cast the message

1440
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:06,519
Speaker 1: that they're the strong, secure ones on crime. That's the

1441
01:17:06,640 --> 01:17:10,639
Speaker 1: primary thing you're seeing there with the DC mayor Alvin

1442
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:15,160
Speaker 1: Bragloves putting out the stats on New York crime, shootings, down, murders,

1443
01:17:15,200 --> 01:17:17,920
Speaker 1: all this kind of stuff falling on deaf ears largely

1444
01:17:17,960 --> 01:17:20,880
Speaker 1: across the country. It seems like Republicans are winning that narrative, Jack,

1445
01:17:20,960 --> 01:17:23,639
Speaker 1: Is that safe to say? That is? That is hard

1446
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:25,439
Speaker 1: to say because it's going to take so many twists

1447
01:17:25,439 --> 01:17:28,960
Speaker 1: and turns. You see the I think probably de facto

1448
01:17:29,080 --> 01:17:31,240
Speaker 1: head of the Republican Party in some sense, and the

1449
01:17:31,280 --> 01:17:34,800
Speaker 1: former president Donald Trump with a lot of legal troubles.

1450
01:17:36,400 --> 01:17:40,639
Speaker 1: You know, you've got members talking about taking away funds

1451
01:17:40,720 --> 01:17:45,799
Speaker 1: from various law enforcement offices. There's always a debate over

1452
01:17:46,120 --> 01:17:50,720
Speaker 1: how much they want to meddle in DOJ affairs. Democrats

1453
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:53,719
Speaker 1: have repeatedly said, hey, we are more supportive of sending

1454
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:57,479
Speaker 1: out grants to local police. The who really supports police

1455
01:17:57,720 --> 01:18:01,519
Speaker 1: and who really is engaged on is very much back

1456
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:03,800
Speaker 1: and forth. I think both sides kind of think they

1457
01:18:03,840 --> 01:18:06,400
Speaker 1: have a way to win that in future elections, and

1458
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:09,840
Speaker 1: I really I think it's too difficult to predict. I

1459
01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:11,600
Speaker 1: don't know who's right about it. It's pretty hard to

1460
01:18:11,600 --> 01:18:13,559
Speaker 1: tell when especially when you're living in a city like

1461
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:17,519
Speaker 1: the one that's that's a target here. Jack, great to

1462
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:19,240
Speaker 1: see you, Thanks for coming to visit us here at

1463
01:18:19,280 --> 01:18:21,400
Speaker 1: the Studio Theater and being part of our conversation and

1464
01:18:21,479 --> 01:18:24,200
Speaker 1: great reporting fine Jack's work on the terminal. Of course,

1465
01:18:24,200 --> 01:18:28,400
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Government's Jack Fitzpatrick with us. You're listening to The

1466
01:18:28,400 --> 01:18:32,559
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch the program live weekdays at

1467
01:18:32,600 --> 01:18:36,120
Speaker 1: one Eastern on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg

1468
01:18:36,160 --> 01:18:38,920
Speaker 1: dot Com, and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also

1469
01:18:39,040 --> 01:18:42,599
Speaker 1: listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station.

1470
01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:48,599
Speaker 1: Just say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty. Thanks for joining

1471
01:18:48,640 --> 01:18:51,040
Speaker 1: us on the fastest show in politics, A little different Today.

1472
01:18:51,080 --> 01:18:54,240
Speaker 1: We've left the building and we're joining you live here

1473
01:18:54,280 --> 01:18:57,439
Speaker 1: from an important event in downtown Washington, the Global Inclusive

1474
01:18:57,479 --> 01:19:01,320
Speaker 1: Growth Summit, hosted by the MasterCards Center for Inclusive Growth

1475
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:04,759
Speaker 1: and the Aspen Institute. I'm Joe Matthew along with Kaylee Lines,

1476
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:06,840
Speaker 1: and this is just one of the adjacent events happening

1477
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:10,000
Speaker 1: in Washington on this IMF week, the spring meetings underway

1478
01:19:10,240 --> 01:19:12,240
Speaker 1: all across town. Kayley, and this is one of the

1479
01:19:12,280 --> 01:19:15,719
Speaker 1: more compelling conversations. We wanted to bring people inside because

1480
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:18,280
Speaker 1: you see so many news conferences and there are so

1481
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:21,640
Speaker 1: many panels with various players from different countries. This is

1482
01:19:21,680 --> 01:19:24,160
Speaker 1: about equity and inclusion here in the United States and

1483
01:19:24,200 --> 01:19:26,880
Speaker 1: even in this neighborhood that we're in Logan circle. But

1484
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:29,280
Speaker 1: we still cannot escape breaking news, and it continues to

1485
01:19:29,280 --> 01:19:30,920
Speaker 1: break as we sit here. It doesn't it. We've got

1486
01:19:31,000 --> 01:19:34,920
Speaker 1: news now corroborated by the Associated Press along with the others,

1487
01:19:34,920 --> 01:19:38,440
Speaker 1: that there's an arrest already, an arrest in this classified

1488
01:19:38,479 --> 01:19:41,400
Speaker 1: document League case. We talked about it earlier a twenty

1489
01:19:41,400 --> 01:19:44,519
Speaker 1: one year old in the Massachusetts Air National Guard. This

1490
01:19:44,600 --> 01:19:47,559
Speaker 1: is not a high ranking official, it appears, No, it's

1491
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:51,680
Speaker 1: a very young guardsman up in Massachusetts. We understand now

1492
01:19:51,720 --> 01:19:54,519
Speaker 1: according to CNN, this arrest was made in connection with

1493
01:19:54,600 --> 01:19:57,240
Speaker 1: the Intelligence League. So I'm sure we're going to await

1494
01:19:57,280 --> 01:20:02,400
Speaker 1: more information on what exactly are the allegations here on

1495
01:20:02,520 --> 01:20:06,120
Speaker 1: the specific conduct. But obviously this is an administration and

1496
01:20:06,200 --> 01:20:08,400
Speaker 1: a defense department that has come under a significant degree

1497
01:20:08,400 --> 01:20:10,800
Speaker 1: of fire in the past several days of not knowing

1498
01:20:11,040 --> 01:20:13,360
Speaker 1: where the leaks came from, how far they spread. We

1499
01:20:13,400 --> 01:20:16,360
Speaker 1: had so many unanswered questions, and clearly they rushed to

1500
01:20:16,560 --> 01:20:19,960
Speaker 1: answer those questions as quickly as they could with Now

1501
01:20:20,479 --> 01:20:23,679
Speaker 1: just you know, twenty four hours after we first initially,

1502
01:20:23,680 --> 01:20:25,599
Speaker 1: we're getting the reports out about who this guy may

1503
01:20:25,640 --> 01:20:27,519
Speaker 1: be and arrest has been made. Yeah, and it's a

1504
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:28,720
Speaker 1: good point you make. We don't know if this is

1505
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:30,559
Speaker 1: the source of the League's he is linked to this,

1506
01:20:30,600 --> 01:20:32,960
Speaker 1: so that we understood from reporting earlier that there was

1507
01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:35,320
Speaker 1: a group on discord that he apparently was a part

1508
01:20:35,360 --> 01:20:38,720
Speaker 1: of and impressed a lot of young people with his

1509
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:43,040
Speaker 1: level of access. Indeed, and that access now has been

1510
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:47,320
Speaker 1: expanded to all over the web and to allies and

1511
01:20:47,439 --> 01:20:51,639
Speaker 1: adversaries that were subjected to US spying which has now

1512
01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:54,559
Speaker 1: come to light. So let's talk more about the damage

1513
01:20:54,600 --> 01:20:56,800
Speaker 1: that may have been done by this episode. Joining us

1514
01:20:56,800 --> 01:21:00,519
Speaker 1: now here live at the Global Inclusive Growth Summit is

1515
01:21:00,600 --> 01:21:03,479
Speaker 1: Rachel Kite. She is the dean at the Fleder School

1516
01:21:03,479 --> 01:21:07,040
Speaker 1: at Tufts University, which is the oldest graduate only school

1517
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:11,200
Speaker 1: of international affairs. So we have much to discuss with you, Rachel,

1518
01:21:11,200 --> 01:21:12,880
Speaker 1: and thank you very much for being here. But let's

1519
01:21:12,920 --> 01:21:16,360
Speaker 1: just lean on that international affairs aspect of what you

1520
01:21:16,439 --> 01:21:18,719
Speaker 1: do for a moment. How much damage has been done

1521
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:23,200
Speaker 1: to the US's standing in relationship with its allies because

1522
01:21:23,240 --> 01:21:27,559
Speaker 1: of these leaks? Well, I mean friends, friends, keep eyes

1523
01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:30,240
Speaker 1: on friends. That's not new. I think what's new here

1524
01:21:30,360 --> 01:21:34,479
Speaker 1: is that there is a conflict being prosecuted by Russia

1525
01:21:34,560 --> 01:21:37,960
Speaker 1: in Ukraine. The West is heavily involved, and the content

1526
01:21:38,040 --> 01:21:43,080
Speaker 1: of these leaks has put military officials and strategy at

1527
01:21:43,200 --> 01:21:47,679
Speaker 1: risk across a wide phalanx of both allies and other countries.

1528
01:21:48,040 --> 01:21:50,799
Speaker 1: So there'll be furious to marshes will be furious amounts

1529
01:21:50,800 --> 01:21:55,560
Speaker 1: of diplomatic contact at the moment trying to you know,

1530
01:21:55,680 --> 01:21:57,600
Speaker 1: smooth this over. But at the same time, it's the

1531
01:21:57,760 --> 01:21:59,479
Speaker 1: it's the way in which it was leaked right this

1532
01:21:59,600 --> 01:22:03,720
Speaker 1: court everybody by surprise. I meant, you know, most adults

1533
01:22:04,200 --> 01:22:06,720
Speaker 1: in important roles don't even know what discord is. I

1534
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:09,280
Speaker 1: only know what discord is because my teenagers use it.

1535
01:22:09,400 --> 01:22:12,439
Speaker 1: So I think that the drip, drip, drip, and the

1536
01:22:12,560 --> 01:22:14,320
Speaker 1: nature that the fact that it was out there for

1537
01:22:14,360 --> 01:22:17,599
Speaker 1: so long, this is going to force all of all

1538
01:22:17,640 --> 01:22:21,559
Speaker 1: of the allies that coordinate together on intelligence to look

1539
01:22:21,600 --> 01:22:24,479
Speaker 1: at their practices and how they would stop this from

1540
01:22:24,479 --> 01:22:27,240
Speaker 1: happening themselves. Do you talk about friends spuying iron friends.

1541
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:29,720
Speaker 1: We had the former ambassador to Morocco with us the

1542
01:22:29,760 --> 01:22:32,120
Speaker 1: other day who was outraged by this and said this

1543
01:22:32,240 --> 01:22:36,000
Speaker 1: president was the vice president of in an administration that

1544
01:22:36,080 --> 01:22:38,320
Speaker 1: promised to not do this any longer during the Edward

1545
01:22:38,360 --> 01:22:42,160
Speaker 1: Snowden case. Is that your view or does everyone need

1546
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:44,679
Speaker 1: to grow up a little bit and recognize the fact

1547
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:47,880
Speaker 1: that this is common practice? Well, I know, I think

1548
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:49,840
Speaker 1: you in the in the heat of the moment, when

1549
01:22:49,840 --> 01:22:52,919
Speaker 1: you realize that your security has been compromised, you realize

1550
01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:55,759
Speaker 1: and then that that information makes it into the public domain,

1551
01:22:56,240 --> 01:22:59,680
Speaker 1: that causes domestic political problems at home as well. So yes,

1552
01:22:59,720 --> 01:23:03,040
Speaker 1: the outrage is real. But the question of how we

1553
01:23:03,080 --> 01:23:06,680
Speaker 1: coordinate on intelligence gathering amongst allies and then how do

1554
01:23:06,720 --> 01:23:08,600
Speaker 1: we keep that safe? I think these are things that

1555
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:11,479
Speaker 1: will need to be reviewed. Yeah, and while that is

1556
01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:14,800
Speaker 1: under review, let's also talk about the conversations and the

1557
01:23:14,840 --> 01:23:17,719
Speaker 1: reviews ongoing here in DC. This week at the meetings

1558
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:20,200
Speaker 1: of the IMF and World Bank, there has been so

1559
01:23:20,400 --> 01:23:24,200
Speaker 1: much talk about reforming MDB's multilateral development banks. Do you

1560
01:23:24,200 --> 01:23:29,160
Speaker 1: think real progress is being made this week? There's something

1561
01:23:29,240 --> 01:23:32,240
Speaker 1: very different about this spring meeting as opposed to in

1562
01:23:32,320 --> 01:23:34,920
Speaker 1: previous years, where I think the calls for reform are

1563
01:23:34,920 --> 01:23:37,640
Speaker 1: not new. What's new this year is that there's an

1564
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:43,720
Speaker 1: alignment between the borrowers who need finance to flow at

1565
01:23:43,760 --> 01:23:46,600
Speaker 1: the higher levels and more aggressively because they're dealing with

1566
01:23:46,640 --> 01:23:49,080
Speaker 1: the debt crisis and the climate crisis that is forcing

1567
01:23:49,120 --> 01:23:53,720
Speaker 1: them back from growth. And then the owners of these institutions,

1568
01:23:53,720 --> 01:23:56,680
Speaker 1: the ones who put money in, are desperately trying to

1569
01:23:56,680 --> 01:24:00,840
Speaker 1: find ways to finance this poly crisis, debt crisis, the

1570
01:24:00,920 --> 01:24:04,799
Speaker 1: climate crisis, and so you've got borrowers and owners coming

1571
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:07,400
Speaker 1: to the point where they realize that these institutions that

1572
01:24:07,400 --> 01:24:10,920
Speaker 1: were created almost eighty years ago have to work better

1573
01:24:11,080 --> 01:24:14,080
Speaker 1: for this moment in time. So I think, you know,

1574
01:24:14,120 --> 01:24:16,479
Speaker 1: it's early days, but I think we're beginning a very

1575
01:24:16,479 --> 01:24:19,960
Speaker 1: different conversation this week. With that said, what comes from

1576
01:24:20,000 --> 01:24:25,439
Speaker 1: these IMF meetings. People hear about wealthy folks from around

1577
01:24:25,439 --> 01:24:28,080
Speaker 1: the country taking motor kids around Washington all week. We

1578
01:24:28,120 --> 01:24:30,120
Speaker 1: know that's a lot of cocktail parties. But what are

1579
01:24:30,120 --> 01:24:32,479
Speaker 1: the solutions that you see coming out of this week

1580
01:24:32,520 --> 01:24:36,639
Speaker 1: in Washington Or are my over simplifying it? No? I mean, yeah,

1581
01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:39,639
Speaker 1: the world's finance ministers are here, their teams are here,

1582
01:24:39,680 --> 01:24:42,080
Speaker 1: the private sector is here. Everybody's here, so there's a

1583
01:24:42,080 --> 01:24:43,719
Speaker 1: lot of that going on. It's a good thing they're

1584
01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:45,280
Speaker 1: ready to get them all in a room. Yeah, And

1585
01:24:45,320 --> 01:24:47,800
Speaker 1: also because of the disruption over the last couple of years,

1586
01:24:48,080 --> 01:24:50,759
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you can negotiate, negotiate, negotiate,

1587
01:24:50,840 --> 01:24:52,040
Speaker 1: but at the end of the day, being in the

1588
01:24:52,120 --> 01:24:55,320
Speaker 1: room physically together having a relationship really matters, especially if

1589
01:24:55,320 --> 01:24:58,000
Speaker 1: you're asking people to do uncomfortable things, so you can't

1590
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:01,040
Speaker 1: get away from person to person diplomas. But I think

1591
01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:04,440
Speaker 1: what is happening is a focus on let's get practical.

1592
01:25:04,560 --> 01:25:07,760
Speaker 1: Let's let's stop talking about moving billions to trillions. Let's

1593
01:25:07,800 --> 01:25:10,639
Speaker 1: talk about what can we actually do to, for example,

1594
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:13,640
Speaker 1: capture some of the revenues from the extraordinary profits that

1595
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:15,960
Speaker 1: have been made by some companies over the last two years.

1596
01:25:16,120 --> 01:25:19,519
Speaker 1: And how do you channel that into job creation for people,

1597
01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:23,519
Speaker 1: young people in poor countries. How do you actually invest

1598
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:26,559
Speaker 1: in the resilience that countries needs the next time a

1599
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:29,479
Speaker 1: storm comes following through you know, they're able to bounce

1600
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:32,600
Speaker 1: back from it better. So I think that that practicality

1601
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:35,920
Speaker 1: is actually being discussed, you know, maybe on the sides

1602
01:25:36,040 --> 01:25:38,760
Speaker 1: of some of these receptions. I hope you enjoy the

1603
01:25:38,800 --> 01:25:42,000
Speaker 1: rest of the week. Well, I'm going everywhere by electric bikes. Wow.

1604
01:25:42,040 --> 01:25:44,680
Speaker 1: Good job. See this is the type of person we

1605
01:25:44,720 --> 01:25:47,840
Speaker 1: want everyone to emulate. Here, Rachel, thanks for talking with us.

1606
01:25:47,840 --> 01:25:50,720
Speaker 1: Thank you, Rachel Kayden the Fletcher School at Tusta University.

1607
01:25:51,000 --> 01:25:54,080
Speaker 1: Coming up next to conversation with near A Tendon. Here

1608
01:25:54,280 --> 01:25:56,680
Speaker 1: from the Studio Theater in Washington, I'm Joe Matthew with

1609
01:25:56,760 --> 01:26:00,479
Speaker 1: Keiley Lyons. You're listening to Bloomberg Sound On with Joe

1610
01:26:00,520 --> 01:26:07,439
Speaker 1: Matthew and on Bloomberg Radio. I'm looking a you're gonna

1611
01:26:07,439 --> 01:26:09,439
Speaker 1: be looking at us here. We've got a special guest

1612
01:26:09,680 --> 01:26:12,960
Speaker 1: here at the Global Inclusive Growth Summit that is near

1613
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:15,479
Speaker 1: a Tandon straight from a White House to our set

1614
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:18,439
Speaker 1: here in Washington, DC at the Studio Theater. I'm Joe

1615
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:21,040
Speaker 1: Matthew with Kayley Lions and indeed the senior Advisor to

1616
01:26:21,120 --> 01:26:23,439
Speaker 1: the President is with us here straight from the White

1617
01:26:23,439 --> 01:26:25,760
Speaker 1: House near It's great to see you. Thank you for

1618
01:26:25,800 --> 01:26:27,640
Speaker 1: talking with us. I know that you have a presentation

1619
01:26:27,680 --> 01:26:30,080
Speaker 1: coming up later here. As all the players at this

1620
01:26:30,120 --> 01:26:32,759
Speaker 1: event seek solutions when it comes to the matter of equity,

1621
01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:35,320
Speaker 1: and you're going to be talking about ESG today, which

1622
01:26:35,360 --> 01:26:37,480
Speaker 1: is something that we talk about a lot on Bloomberg

1623
01:26:37,840 --> 01:26:39,960
Speaker 1: and on this program. Kayley, you know this to the

1624
01:26:40,000 --> 01:26:43,920
Speaker 1: extent that people don't understand exactly what that means. In

1625
01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:48,080
Speaker 1: so many cases, it's become a buzz term that is

1626
01:26:48,120 --> 01:26:50,840
Speaker 1: considered great by some of the investment community. It's been

1627
01:26:50,920 --> 01:26:55,320
Speaker 1: demonized by many Republicans, which we hear a lot more about.

1628
01:26:55,680 --> 01:26:59,120
Speaker 1: Is what's your message today through the guise of equity

1629
01:26:59,439 --> 01:27:03,760
Speaker 1: and embrace well, ESG to me is really something that

1630
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:07,639
Speaker 1: is about ensuring that people have choices. It's really about

1631
01:27:07,720 --> 01:27:14,480
Speaker 1: ensuring that financial advisors are able to consider equity, social inclusion,

1632
01:27:14,600 --> 01:27:19,240
Speaker 1: and essentially the environment climate related impacts. So you're right,

1633
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:22,240
Speaker 1: it has been a kind of become a contentious conversation.

1634
01:27:23,280 --> 01:27:28,440
Speaker 1: The President recently vetoed a bill to which really repealed

1635
01:27:28,640 --> 01:27:31,720
Speaker 1: our efforts to ensure that ESG is just part of

1636
01:27:31,760 --> 01:27:34,560
Speaker 1: the calculation, not mandating, but just part of the calculation

1637
01:27:34,960 --> 01:27:38,559
Speaker 1: financial advisors can make. So it's surprising to me that

1638
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:42,839
Speaker 1: it's really been a conversation that's become polarized, because essentially

1639
01:27:43,360 --> 01:27:47,360
Speaker 1: ESG is really about ensuring financial advisors other investors can

1640
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:52,400
Speaker 1: take into account factors like equity, the impact on the environment.

1641
01:27:52,479 --> 01:27:55,120
Speaker 1: These are all aspects that we know are affecting the

1642
01:27:55,160 --> 01:27:57,559
Speaker 1: bottom line, and that's what it's really about. But do

1643
01:27:57,600 --> 01:28:01,080
Speaker 1: you feel like the metrics around what exactly ESG is,

1644
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:05,559
Speaker 1: how you define it are still too murky. I think

1645
01:28:05,600 --> 01:28:09,120
Speaker 1: it would be beneficial to have greater definitions about some

1646
01:28:09,240 --> 01:28:11,960
Speaker 1: aspects of it. But for example, the President has been

1647
01:28:12,000 --> 01:28:16,880
Speaker 1: particularly focused on climate impacts, and I think there we

1648
01:28:16,960 --> 01:28:20,720
Speaker 1: do have particular definitions. But you also have concerns about greenwashing.

1649
01:28:21,360 --> 01:28:24,280
Speaker 1: There are absolutely concerns about greenwashing, but when we're talking

1650
01:28:24,280 --> 01:28:26,920
Speaker 1: about climate impacts, it's important to just know part of

1651
01:28:26,960 --> 01:28:30,760
Speaker 1: that is just trying to understand when the risk to

1652
01:28:30,920 --> 01:28:34,640
Speaker 1: long term investments from climate investment from climate impacts. You know,

1653
01:28:34,720 --> 01:28:37,240
Speaker 1: we know we can see all around us that there

1654
01:28:37,240 --> 01:28:42,160
Speaker 1: are economic impacts from climate change. That just open up

1655
01:28:42,160 --> 01:28:45,120
Speaker 1: the newspaper and we learn about fires, a new round

1656
01:28:45,160 --> 01:28:48,160
Speaker 1: of fires throughout the country that is having an economic impact.

1657
01:28:48,479 --> 01:28:53,080
Speaker 1: And absolutely investors should take into consideration those kinds of

1658
01:28:53,120 --> 01:28:56,599
Speaker 1: impacts when they're making investments. When you consider the definition though,

1659
01:28:56,600 --> 01:28:59,120
Speaker 1: of ESG, isn't it worth reminding people that this is

1660
01:28:59,160 --> 01:29:02,120
Speaker 1: a lot more than when you talk about governance that

1661
01:29:02,160 --> 01:29:05,880
Speaker 1: could be about any level of governance within a company

1662
01:29:05,920 --> 01:29:08,479
Speaker 1: to do the right thing. This isn't just saving the planet.

1663
01:29:08,479 --> 01:29:12,720
Speaker 1: This is running a business efficiently and responsibly. No, absolutely,

1664
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:16,799
Speaker 1: And I think governance and accountability are a critical component

1665
01:29:16,840 --> 01:29:22,040
Speaker 1: of ESG, as is equity ensuring that we do know

1666
01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:27,560
Speaker 1: that decisions that are more inclusive, Companies that are more inclusive,

1667
01:29:28,439 --> 01:29:32,240
Speaker 1: companies where they're the board representation is more inclusive, can

1668
01:29:32,280 --> 01:29:35,320
Speaker 1: have better bottom lines. So I think you know all

1669
01:29:35,360 --> 01:29:37,800
Speaker 1: of this, I think again, what's become odd about this

1670
01:29:37,880 --> 01:29:42,799
Speaker 1: conversation is is it's become polarized, but really it's about

1671
01:29:42,880 --> 01:29:46,160
Speaker 1: having a series of factors that always address the bottom line,

1672
01:29:46,200 --> 01:29:48,240
Speaker 1: not at the expense of the bottom line, but actually

1673
01:29:48,240 --> 01:29:50,240
Speaker 1: to improve the bottom line. Era, It's great to have

1674
01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:52,559
Speaker 1: you with us. This is we've got breaking news that

1675
01:29:52,600 --> 01:29:54,920
Speaker 1: we have to jump to. Attorney General Merritcarland is speaking

1676
01:29:54,920 --> 01:29:58,280
Speaker 1: now about the arrest of this individual from Massachusetts. Talk

1677
01:29:58,320 --> 01:30:00,760
Speaker 1: more about in the Pentagon leaks case. Let's this investigation

1678
01:30:00,880 --> 01:30:06,040
Speaker 1: is ongoing. We will share more information at the appropriate time. Thanks.

1679
01:30:06,080 --> 01:30:15,479
Speaker 1: Everyone felt like that was approqui no questions for the

1680
01:30:15,479 --> 01:30:20,280
Speaker 1: Attorney General. All right, we're back here at the Studio theater.

1681
01:30:20,320 --> 01:30:23,400
Speaker 1: Then we'll stay here at the Inclusive Growth summit. Just

1682
01:30:23,439 --> 01:30:26,000
Speaker 1: to reset, we mentioned this just a couple of moments ago.

1683
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:29,120
Speaker 1: It's twenty one year old from Massachusetts has been arrested

1684
01:30:29,240 --> 01:30:31,720
Speaker 1: linked to the case not necessarily the source of these

1685
01:30:31,800 --> 01:30:35,880
Speaker 1: League documents. And a rather brief statement there from Erica. Yeah,

1686
01:30:35,960 --> 01:30:42,000
Speaker 1: that was rather underwhelming. We're talking here. We'll have more

1687
01:30:42,040 --> 01:30:45,160
Speaker 1: on that when when we learn more. But in the

1688
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:49,360
Speaker 1: in the effort to continue our conversation here about good governance,

1689
01:30:50,120 --> 01:30:52,800
Speaker 1: Kaylee we don't worry. It's not our job to advertise ESG,

1690
01:30:53,000 --> 01:30:55,439
Speaker 1: but it is our job to help define it. Yeah. Well,

1691
01:30:55,479 --> 01:30:57,120
Speaker 1: and we have to keep in mind that we've now

1692
01:30:57,120 --> 01:30:59,639
Speaker 1: talked about climate the E parts, governance, the G part.

1693
01:30:59,680 --> 01:31:02,519
Speaker 1: There was also the US the social aspect as well.

1694
01:31:02,520 --> 01:31:04,839
Speaker 1: At a time when as we're paying attention to document

1695
01:31:05,360 --> 01:31:07,960
Speaker 1: leaks in the global economy, we also are in a

1696
01:31:08,040 --> 01:31:11,000
Speaker 1: moment in which social issues very much define a lot

1697
01:31:11,040 --> 01:31:13,640
Speaker 1: of the politics of America. At the moment, abortion near

1698
01:31:13,800 --> 01:31:17,960
Speaker 1: being front and center in recent weeks. Absolutely, and I think,

1699
01:31:18,000 --> 01:31:21,040
Speaker 1: you know, I think this is an important question. One

1700
01:31:21,120 --> 01:31:24,520
Speaker 1: issue that we've been really heartened by, and they bide administration,

1701
01:31:24,640 --> 01:31:27,479
Speaker 1: is how many companies have really stepped up in these

1702
01:31:27,920 --> 01:31:31,160
Speaker 1: in these divisive times, particularly around the issue of abortion.

1703
01:31:31,200 --> 01:31:34,240
Speaker 1: There are companies throughout the country who have really tried

1704
01:31:34,280 --> 01:31:39,120
Speaker 1: to ensure that they're still providing access. That's an important element,

1705
01:31:39,160 --> 01:31:41,960
Speaker 1: and it's really just important for customers and employees to

1706
01:31:42,040 --> 01:31:46,240
Speaker 1: know those sets of issues. So I do think that

1707
01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:50,040
Speaker 1: it's important to ensure that, you know, we don't try

1708
01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:53,639
Speaker 1: to overly politicize, you know, these discussions. I think so

1709
01:31:53,720 --> 01:31:57,120
Speaker 1: much of what's happened is that over the last several years,

1710
01:31:57,240 --> 01:32:01,000
Speaker 1: is that companies are really in the crossherrs of partisan issues,

1711
01:32:01,040 --> 01:32:04,600
Speaker 1: and I mean that can be particularly unhelpful. It's you know,

1712
01:32:04,680 --> 01:32:08,040
Speaker 1: our effort is always to try to deconflict these issues

1713
01:32:08,080 --> 01:32:12,200
Speaker 1: instead of adding to sort of the cultural adding to

1714
01:32:12,280 --> 01:32:15,960
Speaker 1: the kind of polarization and cultural class. Yeah, Neira, you've

1715
01:32:15,960 --> 01:32:18,800
Speaker 1: been caught up in the swirl of partisan politics more

1716
01:32:18,840 --> 01:32:21,640
Speaker 1: than most will ever know, going from the Center to

1717
01:32:21,760 --> 01:32:25,320
Speaker 1: American Progress following your your throws with the idea of

1718
01:32:25,439 --> 01:32:29,040
Speaker 1: running omb when you sit back and kind of think

1719
01:32:29,080 --> 01:32:31,920
Speaker 1: about the year ahead, getting into a campaign season, So

1720
01:32:32,000 --> 01:32:35,080
Speaker 1: what extent will you make this part of the platform

1721
01:32:35,200 --> 01:32:39,759
Speaker 1: for reelection of Joe Biden. Well, I think that the president,

1722
01:32:40,000 --> 01:32:43,080
Speaker 1: you know, one of his first executive orders was on

1723
01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:48,040
Speaker 1: was related to ESG. It was his Climate and Financial

1724
01:32:48,160 --> 01:32:51,160
Speaker 1: Risk EO that actually led to the Department of Labour's

1725
01:32:51,200 --> 01:32:56,720
Speaker 1: new rules that restored the ability to really look at

1726
01:32:56,920 --> 01:33:00,360
Speaker 1: ESG issues. So, and one of the first bills obviously

1727
01:33:00,439 --> 01:33:03,320
Speaker 1: the House Republicans past was a bill that attacked ESG.

1728
01:33:03,800 --> 01:33:06,479
Speaker 1: You know, from our perspective, we are not trying to

1729
01:33:06,520 --> 01:33:10,679
Speaker 1: engage in hard partisan attacks around these issues. The President

1730
01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:14,240
Speaker 1: is really committed to ensuring that we address climate. He

1731
01:33:14,360 --> 01:33:16,840
Speaker 1: thinks of that as not a partisan issue. He thinks

1732
01:33:16,840 --> 01:33:21,360
Speaker 1: of it as an issue that is just a really

1733
01:33:22,400 --> 01:33:25,800
Speaker 1: oncoming catastrophe, so we have to address it. So, you know,

1734
01:33:25,920 --> 01:33:28,880
Speaker 1: we look at these issues as one that we hope

1735
01:33:28,880 --> 01:33:31,280
Speaker 1: to king unite the country, and we hope that we'll

1736
01:33:31,320 --> 01:33:34,080
Speaker 1: actually detoxify this debate. Come see us again when we

1737
01:33:34,080 --> 01:33:36,800
Speaker 1: can talk more. I'd love to continue the conversation with

1738
01:33:36,920 --> 01:33:39,160
Speaker 1: Ni a tandem. Many thanks for joining us. Thank you

1739
01:33:39,240 --> 01:33:42,080
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Radio, Kaylee, two hours go by fast around here.

1740
01:33:42,120 --> 01:33:44,360
Speaker 1: It's the fastest show in politics from the Global Inclusive

1741
01:33:44,360 --> 01:33:51,600
Speaker 1: Growth Summit. Fascinating a series of conversations today. Thanks for

1742
01:33:51,640 --> 01:33:54,160
Speaker 1: listening to the Sound on podcast. Make sure to subscribe

1743
01:33:54,160 --> 01:33:57,040
Speaker 1: if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify and anywhere else

1744
01:33:57,080 --> 01:33:59,519
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts. And you can find us live

1745
01:33:59,640 --> 01:34:02,639
Speaker 1: every weekday from Washington, d C. At one pm Eastern

1746
01:34:02,680 --> 01:34:06,160
Speaker 1: Time at Bloomberg dot com