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Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hey, how's it going good? How are you good good?

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for taking the time. This is such

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Speaker 1: a treat. I've been a big fan for a while,

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Speaker 1: so one of the coolest things about hosting this podcast

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Speaker 1: is having the chance to meet people I've admired since

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Speaker 1: I was a kid, people like today's guest, who is

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Speaker 1: kind enough to join us on location in Ireland. There's

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Speaker 1: this meme that's going around that says nobody understands the

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Speaker 1: bond between a millennial and the random VHS tape that

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Speaker 1: their parents owned when they were twelve, And for me,

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Speaker 1: that random VHS tape was a Mannikin. Mannikin for listeners

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Speaker 1: who did not own this random VHS tape is a

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty seven film about a time traveling Egyptian princess

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Speaker 1: whose spirit has spent the last few centuries inhabiting works

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Speaker 1: of art. In the nineteen eighties, she's taken the form

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Speaker 1: of a department store mannequin who comes to life after

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Speaker 1: hours and fall in love with a dreamy artist who

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Speaker 1: builds her window displays. The mannequin character was played by

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Speaker 1: a pre sex in the city Kim Cattrell, who twelve

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Speaker 1: year old Laurie thought was the absolute coolest in her

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Speaker 1: huge eighties shoulder pads. But kid Laurie was also smitten

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Speaker 1: with the actor who starred as her dreamy love interest,

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Speaker 1: the same guy that adult podcast host Laurie gets to

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Speaker 1: chat with for today's episode, actor Andrew McCarthy.

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Speaker 2: Bannekin actually is a lovely movie. The most in it

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Speaker 2: in an open hearted movie. It shouldn't work at all,

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Speaker 2: and it just does.

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Speaker 1: I feel like there was something about the eighties movies

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Speaker 1: that were open hearted in that way, and we just don't.

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Speaker 1: We don't get plots like that anymore. Mannequin was more

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Speaker 1: than a quirky love story. Andrew's character Jonathan, also strikes

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Speaker 1: up a touching friendship with another department store employee named Hollywood.

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Speaker 1: The two characters couldn't have been more different. Hollywood was

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Speaker 1: a flamboyant, gay black man, while Andrew was straight and

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Speaker 1: white and relatively basic. Apart from his mannequin come to

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Speaker 1: life girlfriend.

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Speaker 2: I want you to meet somebody. This is emmy. Oh

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Speaker 2: very nice. Maybe I can get Gi Joe and we

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Speaker 2: can double sometime. And there was no mention in any

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Speaker 2: way about textuality being involved, or race or anything that

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Speaker 2: were just best brand. I thought it was such a

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Speaker 2: lovely quality of the movie that it was unspoken in

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Speaker 2: any way, none of none of that matter, just mattered.

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Speaker 2: They were good friends.

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Speaker 1: Andrew had a knack for portraying touching male friendships on screen.

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Speaker 1: His acting career blossomed in the age of the John

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Speaker 1: Hughes movie that moment in the nineteen eighties, when teen

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Speaker 1: relationships were being featured on the big screen for the

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Speaker 1: first time, Guys my age grew up thinking about their

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Speaker 1: own friendships in light of the intimate bonds they saw

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Speaker 1: actors like Andrew portraying and iconic movies like Saint Elmo's

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Speaker 1: Fire and Weekend at Bernie's. Guys my age also got

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Speaker 1: to see actors like Andrew taking part in iconic real

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Speaker 1: life friendships along with other eighties heart throbs like Rob Low,

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Speaker 1: Amelio Estevez, and Judd Nelson. Andrew was a member of

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Speaker 1: the infamous Brat Pack, a group of young actors who

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Speaker 1: socialized like best buds in all the coolest Hollywood. In

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Speaker 1: all these different ways, Andrew has played a part in

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Speaker 1: literally defining what so many people my age thought male

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Speaker 1: friendships were supposed to be like. And that's why I

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Speaker 1: was so excited to have him join me to discuss

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Speaker 1: this week's Happiness hot take because this week's hot take

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Speaker 1: concerns something that worries me about men's connection. These days,

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Speaker 1: we hear a lot about how men today are lonely

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Speaker 1: and lack social support. But for men to have the

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Speaker 1: best chance at feeling happy, they need more than surface

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Speaker 1: level connections, more than a random work buddy. Where the

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Speaker 1: dude they see at the gym every morning. Today's happiness

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Speaker 1: hot take is this, men don't just need casual friendships,

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Speaker 1: they need romance. In this episode, I'll make the case

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Speaker 1: that we need to bring back the kind of close,

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Speaker 1: emotionally rich male friendships that seemed commonplace in brat pack

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Speaker 1: movies before they vanish for good. Our minds are constantly

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Speaker 1: telling us what to do to be happy. But what

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Speaker 1: if our minds are wrong. What if our minds are

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Speaker 1: lying to us, leading us away from what will really

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Speaker 1: make us happy. The good news is that understanding the

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Speaker 1: science of the mind can point us all back in

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Speaker 1: the right direction. You're listening to the Happiness Lab with me,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Laurie Santos.

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Speaker 2: When I told my wife I was writing a book

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Speaker 2: about friendships, She was like, you are writing a book

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Speaker 2: about friendship because you know, in many ways, I'm the

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Speaker 2: least likely person.

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Speaker 1: RATPEC member Andrew McCarthy was known for his iconic depictions

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Speaker 1: of friendship back in the nineteen eighties, but decades later

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Speaker 1: in the twenty twenties, things weren't going as well for

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Speaker 1: Andrew in the friendship department. Like many middle aged men today,

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Speaker 1: Andrew spent much of his time focused on family and work,

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Speaker 1: including his new career as a travel writer. Close relationships

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Speaker 1: with male friends just weren't a priority. Andrew hadn't given

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Speaker 1: much thought to what he might be missing out on

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Speaker 1: until one afternoon when he was chatting with his son Sam.

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Speaker 2: I was sitting in the kitchen tab we'll drinking a

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Speaker 2: couple of teas them was sitting on the floor strumming

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Speaker 2: his guitar, and he was telling me a silly story

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Speaker 2: about one of his friends from dating disaster, and we

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Speaker 2: were laughing, and then he just kind of looked at

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Speaker 2: me and he said, you don't really have any friends,

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Speaker 2: do you, Dad? And I knew we need a nerve

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Speaker 2: because I told myself not to react, so I adopted

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Speaker 2: a sort of parental height of well Sam, you know,

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Speaker 2: I do have friends. I just don't see them, but

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Speaker 2: I know they're there and that's enough. And he kind of,

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Speaker 2: you know, bought that line. And then when he left,

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Speaker 2: I sat with myself and I thought, you know what,

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Speaker 2: it's not enough. I had these friends who were very

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Speaker 2: instrumental in my life when I was a young man,

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Speaker 2: and instrumental me becoming who I've become, you know, and

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Speaker 2: I through life and families and careers and all that,

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Speaker 2: I had to see some of these dear friends in decades.

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Speaker 1: And research shows Andrew is not alone. Studies like the

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Speaker 1: American Time Youth Survey have found that people of all

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Speaker 1: ages are spending far less time in person with friends

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Speaker 1: than they did a few decades ago, but that decline

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Speaker 1: is much worse for men than it is for women.

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Speaker 1: Social connection exists on a spectrum. On one end, you

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Speaker 1: have what academics call weak ties, people you have positive

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Speaker 1: interactions with but don't know all that well. Think a

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Speaker 1: neighbor the barriist, to who makes your coffee every morning,

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Speaker 1: your apartment's doorman. Calling these connections weak ties might make

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Speaker 1: them sound unimportant, but psychologists have found that these relationships

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Speaker 1: can have a surprisingly powerful effect on our well being.

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Speaker 1: I'm not so worried about guys today when it comes

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Speaker 1: to weak ties, But what men today are increasingly lacking

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Speaker 1: is what researchers call strong ties. Those rider diet close

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Speaker 1: friendships with people who really see you bromances, so to speak,

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Speaker 1: and research shows that bromances are on the decline. Thirty

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Speaker 1: years ago, most men reported having at least six close friends.

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Speaker 1: Today that percentage of men has dropped by half half,

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Speaker 1: and fifteen percent of men report having no close friendships

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Speaker 1: at all. This rapid decline in men's social connection has

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Speaker 1: a whole host of bad consequences for guy's health and

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Speaker 1: their happiness. Psychologists have long argued that social connection is

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Speaker 1: a necessary condition for a happy life. The Harvard Study

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Speaker 1: of Adult Development, the longest running study of happiness ever,

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Speaker 1: found that close relationships were essential not just for your

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Speaker 1: psychological well being as you move into old age, but

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Speaker 1: also for your physical well being. Strong social support is

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Speaker 1: associated with less stress and a lower risk of heart disease, dementia,

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Speaker 1: and inflammation. Having more friends is linked to stronger immune

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Speaker 1: function and better resistance to diseases, and one famous study

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Speaker 1: by the psychologist Julian Holt Lundstadt found that people with

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Speaker 1: strong social bonds were fifty percent less likely to die

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Speaker 1: over a set period of time than those who had

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Speaker 1: fewer social connections. Results like these show just how dangerous

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Speaker 1: this decrease in close male friendships is for guys today.

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Speaker 2: It's the macult a friendship, the maucul and it's a

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Speaker 2: commitment that we don't make.

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Speaker 1: So what happened? Why aren't guys today making this commitment.

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Speaker 1: To find out, Let's do a deeper dive into the

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Speaker 1: history of bromances. If you rewind the VHS tape of

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Speaker 1: male friendship about a thousand or so years, you would

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Speaker 1: find that romances were everywhere. It was super common for

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Speaker 1: middle aged guys to have lots of friends, ones with

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Speaker 1: whom they openly expressed affection and love. Take ancient Greece.

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Speaker 1: Back then, close male friendships were considered the cornerstone of

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Speaker 1: civic life. Super close bonds between guys were also considered badass.

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Speaker 1: They were common in the warrior class and on the battlefield.

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Speaker 1: Think for example, of the famously tragic romance between Achilles

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Speaker 1: and Patrick Close that the poet Homer wrote about in

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Speaker 1: the Iliad after Patrick Close was killed in battle. Achilles

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Speaker 1: was so devastated that his grief became the basis for

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Speaker 1: the entire epic. Homer reminds us that it was manly

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Speaker 1: for ancient dudes like Achilles to openly show deep love

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Speaker 1: and affection for their friends, and this celebration of male

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Speaker 1: closeness continued for thousands more years. Fast forward to the

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Speaker 1: sixteenth century and you'll find many scholars extolling the importance

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Speaker 1: of male companionship. Famed philosophers like Montane even argued that

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Speaker 1: women were simply incapable of the idyllic closeness that men

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Speaker 1: regularly had with one another. Fast forward again to the

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Speaker 1: eighteenth century and the start of our own country, and

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Speaker 1: you'd see that romances were still alive and well. Our

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Speaker 1: American forefathers often walked down the street arm in arm.

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Speaker 1: They even wrote effusive poetry to one another. Things in

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Speaker 1: the male friendship department only started to shift in the

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Speaker 1: latter half of the nineteenth century. That's when we begin

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Speaker 1: to see new cultural ideas about the differences between men

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Speaker 1: and women, including the notion that women were the empathic ones,

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Speaker 1: not men. It was also around this time that gay

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Speaker 1: culture became more visible, which made straight men more self

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Speaker 1: conscious about being intimate with one another. These changes continued

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Speaker 1: into the twentieth century and later cemented into the so

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Speaker 1: called traditional male gender norms that we have to These

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Speaker 1: norms pushed the idea that maleness is synonymous with characteristics

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Speaker 1: like self reliance, physical toughness, and emotional restraint. Of course,

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Speaker 1: not every guy experiences these traditional male gender norms in

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Speaker 1: the same way, but they're still super influential in shaping

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Speaker 1: the way that many heterosexual guys in the US think.

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Speaker 1: There's a post to behave.

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Speaker 2: That whole sort of post, John Wayne, carry your own water,

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Speaker 2: be stoic, you know, is such nonsense, and it's so

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Speaker 2: ingrained in the list. Guy was never kind of macho

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Speaker 2: do and yet I have that.

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Speaker 1: Andrew says that traditional male gender norms were everywhere when

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Speaker 1: he was growing up.

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Speaker 2: You know, I had three brothers, so I come from

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Speaker 2: a male world. And my older brother Peter was my protector.

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Speaker 2: And I was a shy, kind of small kid, and

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Speaker 2: he was big, and he was a star of the

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Speaker 2: family of the athlete, and so that with my dynamic

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Speaker 2: when I was young.

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Speaker 1: This dynamic was also championed by Andrew's insurance salesman father,

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Speaker 1: who seemed almost ashamed to have a son who is

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Speaker 1: introverted and sensitive and interested in acting.

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Speaker 2: Of all things, I'm afraid of my dad. Heared all

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Speaker 2: of a guy, and I was terrified of him.

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Speaker 1: Andrew remembers one conversation in which his dad actually told him,

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Speaker 1: I love you because I'm your father, but I don't

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Speaker 1: like you ouch. But Andrew did have some healthy experiences

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Speaker 1: with male closeness in his teens and early twenties. It

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Speaker 1: was around this time that he met Matthew, a lifelong

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Speaker 1: partnering crime who shared Andrew's acting bug, and Sevi, who

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Speaker 1: Andrew has long considered a surrogate big brother. Even when

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Speaker 1: Andrew thinks about the people he cares most about today,

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Speaker 1: Matthew and Sevi's names are at the top of his list.

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Speaker 1: In other words, despite all the cultural messages telling him

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Speaker 1: to keep his feelings to himself, Andrew managed to build

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Speaker 1: exactly the kind of strong ties that psychologists say matter most.

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Speaker 1: And that's in part, Andrew says, because he developed these

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Speaker 1: two friendships before he landed his first big acting role.

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Speaker 1: After the film Saint Almos's Fire came out, almost everything

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Speaker 1: about Andrew's life changed. Being a movie star meant that

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Speaker 1: everyone wanted a piece of the twenty something actor, which

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Speaker 1: was terrifying for a shy introvert.

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Speaker 2: I hadn't been kind of invisible before that, so that

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Speaker 2: changed my place in the world because people come at

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Speaker 2: you in a different way than if you're just a

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Speaker 2: regular person. And I felt very separate from everyone.

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Speaker 1: It was surprising for a fan like me to hear

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Speaker 1: just how isolated Andrew felt during his movie hey Day.

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Speaker 1: I remember Andrew taking part in all the close friendships

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Speaker 1: he portrayed on screen during that time. I think of

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Speaker 1: him hanging out with all the other eighties actors at

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Speaker 1: the cool clubs. But Andrew says that the guys in

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Speaker 1: the brat pack weren't as close in reality as they

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Speaker 1: seemed from the outside.

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Speaker 2: With ironic that I became sort of known for being

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Speaker 2: part of a group when I felt very, very separate.

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Speaker 1: Andrew soon began retreating more and more, ghosting even friends

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Speaker 1: like Seve and Matthew that he'd made before becoming a

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Speaker 1: movie star, and without close relationships to buffer the stress

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Speaker 1: of theme, Andrew turned to substances to feel better. I

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Speaker 1: was horrified to learn that during the time he was

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Speaker 1: filming my beloved Mannikin Andrew was addicted to cocaine and

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Speaker 1: drank to excess nearly every day.

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Speaker 2: I think Mother Teresa said the worst suffering she'd ever

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Speaker 2: seen was a lonelin It's of an alcoholic.

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Speaker 1: Andrew checked into rehab at age twenty nine. He's proud

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Speaker 1: to say that he's been clean ever since. He used

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Speaker 1: his early sobriety to pivot from acting to directing, and

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Speaker 1: then later to a career as a travel journalist. He

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Speaker 1: eventually met his wife, Dolores, and settled down to raise

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Speaker 1: a family. All this new found stability was great. He

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Speaker 1: had the intimacy that comes with a loving partner and children,

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Speaker 1: but it didn't include lots of time for the close

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Speaker 1: romances he had become famous for in his movies and

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Speaker 1: the kind that he'd cherished earlier in real life with

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Speaker 1: friends like Matthew and Sebb.

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Speaker 2: I suddenly looked up at a certain point though, I've

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Speaker 2: gotten into a position where my son could say, Dah,

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Speaker 2: you don't really have any friends, And from his perspective

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Speaker 2: that was true. You know, I did consider my friends

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Speaker 2: still my friends in my mind, like I did. I

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Speaker 2: know they're there, but really were they? You know? We

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Speaker 2: occasionally call and chat on the phone, and it was

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Speaker 2: like an all friends say, like it was yesterday, but

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Speaker 2: you know, whether it was just funes of the path

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Speaker 2: or was there anything still there.

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Speaker 1: Sam's comment helped Andrew realize that an occasional, once in

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Speaker 1: a decade phone chat wasn't enough to get all the

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Speaker 1: health and happiness benefits of true friendship.

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Speaker 2: And I just thought, you know, I need to go

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Speaker 2: see these people.

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Speaker 1: Sevie was living in Baltimore, over one hundred miles from

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Speaker 1: Andrew's current home in New York City. Matthew was all

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Speaker 1: the way off in Kentucky. Other good friends that Andrew

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Speaker 1: had met during his travel writing gigs were all the

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Speaker 1: way out on the West Coast. But Andrew wanted to

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Speaker 1: make a grand, romantic gesture. He was ready to put

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Speaker 1: in the time and mileage needed to resurrect all these

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Speaker 1: neglected relationships.

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Speaker 2: So I called up my friend that I want to

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Speaker 2: come see you, and they're all through great luck too,

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Speaker 2: And then they all invariably canceled on me.

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Speaker 1: Andrew worried that, like him, his friends feared what would

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Speaker 1: happen when they finally met up after so long, When

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Speaker 1: they were forced to face those awkward fumes of the past.

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Speaker 1: As he put it earlier.

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Speaker 2: I think men are so much more fearful than we acknowledged.

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Speaker 2: And again, fear is weakness in that a man can't

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Speaker 2: beat it. So you just instead of knowledging fear, you're

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Speaker 2: just going to I don't want to do that, and

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Speaker 2: it's going to make me feel afraid, and I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to limit feeling afraid, So I just don't want

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Speaker 2: to do that. The connection that I'm not interested in

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Speaker 2: is really the fear that I don't want to feel.

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Speaker 2: It's just easy to say no. I mean, it's just safer,

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Speaker 2: easier to say no and to just wall in.

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Speaker 1: But Andrew didn't want to just wall in. He was

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Speaker 1: ready to rebuild the friendships he put on the back burner,

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Speaker 1: whether his friends seemed up for it or not. How

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Speaker 1: did Andrew's quest to get his romances back on track

304
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Speaker 1: go and how can we learn from Andrew's example to

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Speaker 1: rebuild our own friendships. Well we'll find out when the

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00:15:45,956 --> 00:15:56,036
Speaker 1: Happiness Lab returns from the Break. Actor and author Andrew

307
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Speaker 1: McCarthy was on a quest to reconnect with old friends.

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Speaker 1: He wanted to rebuild the kinds of romances that he

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Speaker 1: had portrayed in so many iconic eighties films, and he

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Speaker 1: chose to start that quest with one of his oldest friends, Sebb,

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Speaker 1: only four hours away.

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Speaker 2: For God's sake, and I hadn't seen it years and years.

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Speaker 1: Andrew called Seve and demanded that they set a date

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Speaker 1: for Andrew to drive down to Baltimore to see him.

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Speaker 1: The day before Andrew was set to visit, Sevi called

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Speaker 1: to cancel. Apparently he had forgotten about some big doctor's appointment,

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Speaker 1: so Andrew rescheduled, and the day before that rescheduled visit,

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Speaker 1: Sevi called to cancel again. After several more cancelations, Andrew

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Speaker 1: was tired of Sevi's excuses. Four hours later, Andrew was

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Speaker 1: knocking on the door of Seve's condo. Seve seemed shocked

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Speaker 1: and a little upset, greeting Andrew with a confused, dude,

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Speaker 1: what are you doing here? Already, Andrew's romantic gesture seemed

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Speaker 1: to be off to an awkward start, but things got

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Speaker 1: worse when Seve sheepishly let Andrew inside his condo.

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Speaker 2: I walked in and I just went holy caw.

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Speaker 1: Andrew quickly realized why Seve had been so reluctant to

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Speaker 1: have visitors. His apartment was filled floor to ceiling with stuff,

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Speaker 1: closed delivery boxes, papers, just stuff everywhere.

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Speaker 2: He kept ordering from Amazon. He's up in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the night and he's ordering, and he's ordering, ordering,

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Speaker 2: and I was like, why is he doing that? He

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Speaker 2: doesn't need any of the junk he's ordering.

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Speaker 1: Andrew had no idea that Seve had developed a shopping addiction,

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Speaker 1: but that was probably because Andrew and Sevi hadn't actually

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Speaker 1: connected in a real way in a very long time.

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Speaker 2: What happened to my friend? He what kind of friend

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Speaker 2: have I been here?

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Speaker 1: But a few hours into the visit, after they got

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Speaker 1: to really talking, all of the awkwardness just disappeared. By

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Speaker 1: the end of the night, Seve seemed much lighter than

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Speaker 1: he'd been when he first answered the door. Hours later,

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Speaker 1: Andrew took his long drive home feeling more like himself

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Speaker 1: than he had in ages. Turns out, reconnecting with a

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Speaker 1: close friend can do that.

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Speaker 2: I didn't anticipate that, but that was profound to me,

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Speaker 2: And consequently then I felt the safety net underneath me,

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Speaker 2: the safety net of friendship that I had forgotten I needed,

348
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Speaker 2: and forgotten that I missed.

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Speaker 1: Andrew decided to make the four hour trek to visit

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Speaker 1: Seve more often, and as he did, something unexpected happen.

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Speaker 1: Reconnecting with one old friend seemed to make it easier

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Speaker 1: to open up to other people too. Plus, long drives

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Speaker 1: to Baltimore meant chance meetings with random people at rest stops, and.

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Speaker 2: Then along the way I started talking to all these

355
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Speaker 2: other men who I would just randomly approach in a

356
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Speaker 2: gas station or at a restaurant. One time I stopped

357
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Speaker 2: from Philadelphia. I was in a coffee shop and I

358
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Speaker 2: started chatting to a guy and I said, I'm going

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Speaker 2: down to an old friend of mine. He said, oh,

360
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Speaker 2: that's great, Goose. Guys don't really we don't do that enough.

361
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Speaker 2: Until I started talking about friendship with him, and I thought,

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Speaker 2: that have an interesting conversation. And I started talking to

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Speaker 2: another guy. And once I started talking to a few

364
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Speaker 2: other guys, I started to go, wait a minute, there's

365
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Speaker 2: something here.

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Speaker 1: Andrew realized he could turn his quest to reconnect into

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Speaker 1: a bigger project. He decided that his next book would

368
00:18:52,876 --> 00:18:56,316
Speaker 1: document not just his own attempt at reconnection, but also

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Speaker 1: the puzzle of what's really going on with male friendship today.

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Speaker 2: And knowing I was doing a book made it certainly

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Speaker 2: a lot easier. I certainly wouldn't have approached most strangers

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Speaker 2: and that about their friends, so I wasn't writing a book.

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Speaker 1: That book is now out in the world. It's called

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Speaker 1: Who Needs Friends? An unscientific examination of male friendship across America.

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Speaker 1: His attempt to reconnect with his neglected buddies took him

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Speaker 1: on a journey of over ten thousand miles and across

377
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Speaker 1: twenty two different states. Are you a big fan of

378
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Speaker 1: long drives?

379
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Speaker 2: I hate driving. I'm terrible. I don't like driving at all.

380
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Speaker 2: I hate the freeway. I'm afraid trucks are going to

381
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Speaker 2: just crash me all the time. So I rode back roads,

382
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Speaker 2: but no, I hate driving.

383
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Speaker 1: Weeks and weeks of driving those backcountry roads met lots

384
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Speaker 1: of chance conversations with guys from all walks of life.

385
00:19:39,156 --> 00:19:42,236
Speaker 1: In Andrew's, typical conversation involved walking up to a random

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Speaker 1: stranger and bluntly asking would you mind telling me about

387
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Speaker 1: your male friends?

388
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Speaker 2: And they will look at me like I was not

389
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Speaker 2: and invariably no interesting. No one said no to me.

390
00:19:52,956 --> 00:19:55,676
Speaker 2: Everyone said yeah almost oh nobody. The end of our

391
00:19:55,756 --> 00:19:59,076
Speaker 2: conversation said you know, I never talked about this before.

392
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Speaker 1: It turns out Andrew wasn't alone when it came to

393
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Speaker 1: neglecting the buddies he was closest to. He saw the

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Speaker 1: sad stats about the state of male friendship today born

395
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Speaker 1: out in every time he visited.

396
00:20:10,036 --> 00:20:12,036
Speaker 2: And I encountered lots of men I kind of guys

397
00:20:12,036 --> 00:20:14,956
Speaker 2: to come when I started talking about it with them.

398
00:20:15,036 --> 00:20:17,596
Speaker 2: Maybe I don't have any burdens, and I didn't that

399
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Speaker 2: much use the friendship. I'm old now it doesn't matter anymore,

400
00:20:21,036 --> 00:20:23,996
Speaker 2: And that was one of the saddest things I ever heard.

401
00:20:24,556 --> 00:20:27,276
Speaker 1: He also learned about the many factors that prevent men

402
00:20:27,396 --> 00:20:29,596
Speaker 1: from prioritizing close relationships.

403
00:20:29,996 --> 00:20:32,796
Speaker 2: Every man to a one that I spoke too long ago,

404
00:20:32,836 --> 00:20:35,916
Speaker 2: and I took a dozen you know, Wyoming cowboys, Texas

405
00:20:36,116 --> 00:20:39,876
Speaker 2: oiled workers, Blaish musicians, cops, you know. Everyone I talked,

406
00:20:39,876 --> 00:20:45,116
Speaker 2: without exception, felt the burden of providing this need and

407
00:20:45,156 --> 00:20:48,556
Speaker 2: the weight of obligation of providing, and the degree to

408
00:20:48,596 --> 00:20:52,316
Speaker 2: which we are able to meet our own expectation of

409
00:20:52,396 --> 00:20:55,636
Speaker 2: whatever providing means for us is the degree to which

410
00:20:55,676 --> 00:20:59,356
Speaker 2: we have attentive self esteem and happiness. And so I

411
00:20:59,356 --> 00:21:00,876
Speaker 2: think it's the massive issue from that.

412
00:21:01,476 --> 00:21:03,876
Speaker 1: Many of the men he met across the country seemed

413
00:21:03,876 --> 00:21:07,316
Speaker 1: to embrace those John Wayne ideals of self reliance. They

414
00:21:07,356 --> 00:21:10,236
Speaker 1: seemed almost proud to be lonely, as though that was

415
00:21:10,276 --> 00:21:12,436
Speaker 1: what modern maleness was supposed to involve.

416
00:21:12,676 --> 00:21:15,636
Speaker 2: That's what strength is. It's like, that's not strength, it's

417
00:21:15,636 --> 00:21:16,476
Speaker 2: just isolation.

418
00:21:17,196 --> 00:21:20,636
Speaker 1: Conversations like these made Andrew worry about the next generation

419
00:21:20,716 --> 00:21:23,996
Speaker 1: of men if his own generation didn't make some big changes.

420
00:21:24,316 --> 00:21:26,076
Speaker 2: I was talking to these guys in Austin, I remember

421
00:21:26,156 --> 00:21:29,236
Speaker 2: exactly what it was, and we're talking about kids. And

422
00:21:29,276 --> 00:21:32,436
Speaker 2: I realized my greatest failings as a parent is that

423
00:21:32,556 --> 00:21:35,716
Speaker 2: I did not model friendship for my children, you know,

424
00:21:35,756 --> 00:21:37,876
Speaker 2: because kids don't listen. We tell them also, but they

425
00:21:37,876 --> 00:21:40,636
Speaker 2: don't listen. They just see our behavior and they learn

426
00:21:40,676 --> 00:21:44,956
Speaker 2: from our behavior. And I did not actively cultivate and

427
00:21:45,076 --> 00:21:49,116
Speaker 2: nurture my friendships for them to see. And I think

428
00:21:49,196 --> 00:21:52,396
Speaker 2: that was a great failing of mine as a parent.

429
00:21:52,676 --> 00:21:55,476
Speaker 2: And that really hit me hard when I realized that.

430
00:21:55,956 --> 00:21:58,476
Speaker 1: But committing to such a long journey meant that Andrew

431
00:21:58,556 --> 00:22:01,836
Speaker 1: now was putting in the time needed to nurture his friendships.

432
00:22:02,236 --> 00:22:05,836
Speaker 2: Part of me arriving from driving this distance to meet people.

433
00:22:05,876 --> 00:22:07,796
Speaker 2: They would go, I can't believe you drove all the

434
00:22:07,836 --> 00:22:10,276
Speaker 2: way to see me and I you know you're important

435
00:22:10,316 --> 00:22:12,716
Speaker 2: to me. You're valua from me. You've been important in

436
00:22:12,756 --> 00:22:14,556
Speaker 2: my life and I just need to come say hey

437
00:22:14,596 --> 00:22:16,636
Speaker 2: and just like hang out for a minute, go have dinner.

438
00:22:16,956 --> 00:22:19,836
Speaker 2: And while each of us owning how important we were

439
00:22:19,916 --> 00:22:22,676
Speaker 2: to each other, that altered the friendship.

440
00:22:23,156 --> 00:22:25,756
Speaker 1: The more Andrew connected with old friends, the more he

441
00:22:25,836 --> 00:22:28,916
Speaker 1: realized how much of their lives he'd been missing from.

442
00:22:28,916 --> 00:22:31,356
Speaker 2: Matthew in Kentucky mentioned that he was taking some pills.

443
00:22:31,356 --> 00:22:33,796
Speaker 2: That what are you taking there? I've seen you take

444
00:22:33,796 --> 00:22:35,956
Speaker 2: what crandles you know in the eighties. What are you

445
00:22:36,036 --> 00:22:39,196
Speaker 2: taking that? And he did all didn't taking this into

446
00:22:39,236 --> 00:22:41,276
Speaker 2: my heart attack? And I was like, when did you

447
00:22:41,276 --> 00:22:43,476
Speaker 2: have a heart attack? How could I not have known

448
00:22:43,756 --> 00:22:46,836
Speaker 2: you had a heart attack thirteen years ago? And that

449
00:22:46,916 --> 00:22:49,156
Speaker 2: hit me like a ton of bricks. I mean, like,

450
00:22:49,236 --> 00:22:52,396
Speaker 2: this person's important. Why am I not showing up for this? Yeah, yeah,

451
00:22:52,396 --> 00:22:54,236
Speaker 2: I'm busy. I've got this, I've got that. But these

452
00:22:54,236 --> 00:22:56,916
Speaker 2: are all the excuses you need to get over yourself

453
00:22:56,956 --> 00:22:57,556
Speaker 2: here Andrew.

454
00:22:57,956 --> 00:23:00,836
Speaker 1: Andrew's time with Matthew also helped him remember all the

455
00:23:00,876 --> 00:23:03,916
Speaker 1: tiny joys that romance can bring. Take the go to

456
00:23:04,076 --> 00:23:06,596
Speaker 1: ritual that Andrew and Matthew returned to when they heard

457
00:23:06,636 --> 00:23:09,236
Speaker 1: their favorite eighties song together through the Bruce spring.

458
00:23:09,116 --> 00:23:11,236
Speaker 2: Seen Ton Glory Days in the onrnder lines. And then

459
00:23:11,476 --> 00:23:13,676
Speaker 2: you'd say, back in school, she would turn all the

460
00:23:13,676 --> 00:23:20,996
Speaker 2: boys heads back and sl and matt and I used

461
00:23:20,996 --> 00:23:22,756
Speaker 2: to drive around in La together all the time, and

462
00:23:22,796 --> 00:23:24,676
Speaker 2: whenever that's on come on the radio, we would both

463
00:23:24,716 --> 00:23:27,116
Speaker 2: snap our heads to the left, as if our heads

464
00:23:27,116 --> 00:23:28,716
Speaker 2: had been turned by a pretty girl. And you know,

465
00:23:29,396 --> 00:23:32,116
Speaker 2: thirty years later he rings me out to his car

466
00:23:32,276 --> 00:23:34,876
Speaker 2: and the line is queued up and back in school

467
00:23:34,956 --> 00:23:36,796
Speaker 2: can turn all the boy's head and we snap our

468
00:23:36,836 --> 00:23:41,516
Speaker 2: heads and we were instantly twenty two years old again.

469
00:23:41,716 --> 00:23:44,796
Speaker 2: And and if it's stupid, I'm embarrassed now. I think

470
00:23:45,156 --> 00:23:48,396
Speaker 2: we just felt so received by each other, you know,

471
00:23:48,516 --> 00:23:50,236
Speaker 2: and that goes such a long way.

472
00:23:50,916 --> 00:23:54,556
Speaker 1: Andrew's little Bruce Springsteen ritual might sound silly, but the

473
00:23:54,596 --> 00:23:58,156
Speaker 1: science backs Andrew up here. Psychologists have found that shared

474
00:23:58,236 --> 00:24:01,636
Speaker 1: rituals can play an important role in maintaining close relationships.

475
00:24:02,236 --> 00:24:06,316
Speaker 1: Studies by researcher Mike Norton suggest that even arbitrary rituals

476
00:24:06,356 --> 00:24:10,116
Speaker 1: can strengthen social bonds, and psychologists Sarah i'lgo has found

477
00:24:10,316 --> 00:24:13,116
Speaker 1: that shared laughter can act as a catalyst for connection,

478
00:24:13,436 --> 00:24:16,916
Speaker 1: helping friends feel closer and more satisfied with their relationships.

479
00:24:17,636 --> 00:24:20,636
Speaker 1: Little rituals remind us of our shared history and of

480
00:24:20,636 --> 00:24:23,276
Speaker 1: how much we matter to one another. And of course,

481
00:24:23,396 --> 00:24:25,716
Speaker 1: shared laughter with a good friend is a great way

482
00:24:25,836 --> 00:24:29,156
Speaker 1: to just feel good, something Android admits he'd been missing

483
00:24:29,156 --> 00:24:29,796
Speaker 1: in his life.

484
00:24:29,876 --> 00:24:32,196
Speaker 2: I called my wife. She said, well, how's matter. What

485
00:24:32,236 --> 00:24:34,716
Speaker 2: are you guys doing? I got just stupid stuff and

486
00:24:35,076 --> 00:24:37,556
Speaker 2: she said, you don't do enough stupid stuff. I go, God,

487
00:24:37,596 --> 00:24:39,716
Speaker 2: I think I do so much stupid stuff. Yeah, but

488
00:24:39,756 --> 00:24:41,956
Speaker 2: you need to do more stupid stuff that doesn't mean anything.

489
00:24:41,996 --> 00:24:44,036
Speaker 2: So you don't do the stupid stuff that really matters.

490
00:24:44,356 --> 00:24:47,836
Speaker 2: And I thought that was really wise thing today. And

491
00:24:47,916 --> 00:24:51,596
Speaker 2: so I mean, laughing kind of catapults you deeper into

492
00:24:51,596 --> 00:24:54,156
Speaker 2: yourself quicker than anything else, doesn't it. You laugh and

493
00:24:54,436 --> 00:24:57,276
Speaker 2: suddenly everything can do. It's all that anger, that fear,

494
00:24:57,356 --> 00:25:01,516
Speaker 2: all that stuff. Laughing is an extraordinary tool and friendship.

495
00:25:01,556 --> 00:25:04,236
Speaker 2: I think so many of us guys, we just lose

496
00:25:04,276 --> 00:25:07,476
Speaker 2: a sense of joy and playfulness that is really to

497
00:25:07,556 --> 00:25:08,356
Speaker 2: our own detriment.

498
00:25:09,116 --> 00:25:12,596
Speaker 1: Andrew's journey shows that it's relatively easy to resurrect Adorman

499
00:25:12,756 --> 00:25:15,836
Speaker 1: romance if you just put in some overdue effort, and

500
00:25:15,916 --> 00:25:19,676
Speaker 1: the recipe is simple. Ingredient number one is just time,

501
00:25:20,116 --> 00:25:22,476
Speaker 1: whether that's putting in the hours needed to visit face

502
00:25:22,516 --> 00:25:26,076
Speaker 1: to face or prioritizing more consistent phone calls in your calendar.

503
00:25:26,516 --> 00:25:28,636
Speaker 1: And when you do make the time to connect, don't

504
00:25:28,676 --> 00:25:31,036
Speaker 1: be afraid to get a little silly queue up, that

505
00:25:31,156 --> 00:25:33,676
Speaker 1: dumb tune you loved in high school or the stupid

506
00:25:33,716 --> 00:25:37,436
Speaker 1: inside joke that evokes a shared history. Activities like these

507
00:25:37,516 --> 00:25:40,316
Speaker 1: will rebuild any social glue that may have dried out

508
00:25:40,356 --> 00:25:43,876
Speaker 1: over the years. And finally, remember that everyone feels a

509
00:25:43,916 --> 00:25:47,116
Speaker 1: little awkward when they first reach out after a long hiatus.

510
00:25:47,636 --> 00:25:50,836
Speaker 1: Our distant bodies are usually much more excited to reconnect

511
00:25:50,916 --> 00:25:54,316
Speaker 1: than it might seem, and conversations that feel uncomfortable at

512
00:25:54,356 --> 00:25:58,236
Speaker 1: first can become the foundation for genuine intimacy. That's the

513
00:25:58,236 --> 00:26:00,716
Speaker 1: good news when it comes to this week's Happiness hot take.

514
00:26:01,316 --> 00:26:04,556
Speaker 1: But let's be real here, not every guy listening right

515
00:26:04,556 --> 00:26:06,756
Speaker 1: now is going to have the time or ability to

516
00:26:06,796 --> 00:26:09,356
Speaker 1: drop everything to take a ten thousand mile journy need

517
00:26:09,396 --> 00:26:12,796
Speaker 1: to rekindle their dormant friendships, and lots of guys may

518
00:26:12,836 --> 00:26:15,836
Speaker 1: not even realize that deep connection is actually missing from

519
00:26:15,836 --> 00:26:19,756
Speaker 1: their life, which raises a question, are there other low

520
00:26:19,796 --> 00:26:22,116
Speaker 1: lift ways that we can help guys today keep their

521
00:26:22,156 --> 00:26:25,836
Speaker 1: close connections alive? Are there structural ways to nudge lonely

522
00:26:25,876 --> 00:26:29,956
Speaker 1: guys towards more connection and deeper friendships without adding more

523
00:26:29,956 --> 00:26:32,756
Speaker 1: things to their calendar. When we get back from the break,

524
00:26:32,956 --> 00:26:35,596
Speaker 1: we'll meet a social scientist who's begun to dig into

525
00:26:35,596 --> 00:26:39,996
Speaker 1: these questions. He's found a low effort strategy for building romances,

526
00:26:40,436 --> 00:26:43,196
Speaker 1: one that may have been hiding in plain sight. We'll

527
00:26:43,196 --> 00:26:45,676
Speaker 1: hear what he's learned so far when the Happiness Lab

528
00:26:45,716 --> 00:26:46,916
Speaker 1: returns in a moment.

529
00:26:56,436 --> 00:26:58,996
Speaker 3: I grew up in Philadelphia, which, as many people know,

530
00:26:59,196 --> 00:27:02,556
Speaker 3: is the home to the NFL's best team, the Philadelphia Eagles.

531
00:27:02,796 --> 00:27:05,316
Speaker 1: This is my friend, Todd Rogers, a professor of public

532
00:27:05,356 --> 00:27:07,196
Speaker 1: policy at the Harvard Kennedy School.

533
00:27:07,516 --> 00:27:11,836
Speaker 3: Growing upatch Eagles games. My family watched Eagles games. I

534
00:27:11,876 --> 00:27:14,276
Speaker 3: watched with friends. Everyone talked about it.

535
00:27:14,436 --> 00:27:16,796
Speaker 1: Ever since he was a kid. Todd has used being

536
00:27:16,836 --> 00:27:18,996
Speaker 1: part of the so called Bird gang to connect with

537
00:27:19,036 --> 00:27:22,436
Speaker 1: the other people, and particularly the other dudes in his life.

538
00:27:22,836 --> 00:27:25,636
Speaker 1: The connective power of being an Eagles fan was especially

539
00:27:25,676 --> 00:27:28,916
Speaker 1: important during Todd's early teens. It was around this time

540
00:27:28,956 --> 00:27:31,436
Speaker 1: that the Rogers family experienced a tragic event.

541
00:27:31,836 --> 00:27:35,076
Speaker 3: When I was in eighth grade, rising into ninth grade,

542
00:27:35,196 --> 00:27:39,436
Speaker 3: my older brother died. I spent every Sunday in Mimium

543
00:27:39,436 --> 00:27:43,196
Speaker 3: pop Up's basement, my grandparents' basement that entire season of

544
00:27:43,356 --> 00:27:47,596
Speaker 3: ninth grade, watching games in the dueling reclining chairs. My

545
00:27:47,636 --> 00:27:51,356
Speaker 3: grandfather who didn't talk much, but every week we would

546
00:27:51,356 --> 00:27:53,476
Speaker 3: get Skoenex bagels. I would eat three or four of

547
00:27:53,516 --> 00:27:55,796
Speaker 3: them and pass out by halftime on the chair. But

548
00:27:55,956 --> 00:27:59,276
Speaker 3: looking back, I realized my grandparents wanted to be around,

549
00:27:59,516 --> 00:28:01,076
Speaker 3: and there was no other way to be around a

550
00:28:01,116 --> 00:28:04,596
Speaker 3: fourteen year old in that really challenging time where I

551
00:28:04,756 --> 00:28:05,836
Speaker 3: like needed family.

552
00:28:06,116 --> 00:28:09,596
Speaker 1: Todd continues to use the connective power of Eagles fandom today.

553
00:28:10,116 --> 00:28:13,196
Speaker 1: Having moved from Philly to Boston for his current academic position,

554
00:28:13,596 --> 00:28:16,316
Speaker 1: Todd often turns to the Eagles to stay connected with

555
00:28:16,396 --> 00:28:17,276
Speaker 1: buddies back home.

556
00:28:17,716 --> 00:28:21,596
Speaker 3: My high school friends and I they're all over the place,

557
00:28:21,836 --> 00:28:24,356
Speaker 3: but every year we go to an Eagles game together.

558
00:28:24,916 --> 00:28:27,596
Speaker 3: And it's been fifteen years now that we all go

559
00:28:27,676 --> 00:28:29,876
Speaker 3: to a game, and then we've all had many of

560
00:28:29,916 --> 00:28:32,516
Speaker 3: us have had kids. So now we have two games

561
00:28:32,556 --> 00:28:34,316
Speaker 3: every year that we go to. One is the family

562
00:28:34,356 --> 00:28:36,796
Speaker 3: game where we bring all our kids. We tailgate for

563
00:28:36,836 --> 00:28:38,556
Speaker 3: like three or four hours, and then we all go

564
00:28:38,596 --> 00:28:41,036
Speaker 3: to the game, and the other one is just the guys.

565
00:28:41,236 --> 00:28:44,316
Speaker 3: And it's become this incredible way to stay connected to

566
00:28:44,396 --> 00:28:46,636
Speaker 3: my friends from high school, but also to connect with

567
00:28:46,676 --> 00:28:48,956
Speaker 3: everybody in this more extended family we have.

568
00:28:49,196 --> 00:28:52,396
Speaker 1: And even though Todd now resides in enemy Patriots territory,

569
00:28:52,676 --> 00:28:55,796
Speaker 1: he still wears his Eagles insignia, which helps him connect

570
00:28:55,876 --> 00:28:58,396
Speaker 1: with all the other Philly expats living in the area.

571
00:28:58,636 --> 00:29:00,076
Speaker 3: I was in line and the guy in front of

572
00:29:00,116 --> 00:29:01,916
Speaker 3: me was wearing an Eagles hat, so naturally I said,

573
00:29:01,956 --> 00:29:04,636
Speaker 3: go birds. The guy say, go birds. We started talking.

574
00:29:05,436 --> 00:29:07,676
Speaker 3: He watches all the games with his kids, and I

575
00:29:07,676 --> 00:29:10,076
Speaker 3: was like, you should come watch with us party of

576
00:29:10,156 --> 00:29:14,236
Speaker 3: Eagles fans here in Boston every game with my kids

577
00:29:14,436 --> 00:29:16,756
Speaker 3: and my wife and randos that we've met on the

578
00:29:16,756 --> 00:29:20,276
Speaker 3: street who are Eagles fans and colleagues and people who

579
00:29:20,316 --> 00:29:23,596
Speaker 3: are in town. And it has become this centerpiece of

580
00:29:23,636 --> 00:29:24,476
Speaker 3: our social life.

581
00:29:24,636 --> 00:29:26,996
Speaker 1: Todd has long used football fandom to make his own

582
00:29:27,036 --> 00:29:30,156
Speaker 1: life more social, but recently he's begun turning to this

583
00:29:30,236 --> 00:29:33,756
Speaker 1: same strategy academically, because, in addition to being a huge

584
00:29:33,796 --> 00:29:37,476
Speaker 1: Eagles fan, Todd is also a professional fixer. As a

585
00:29:37,476 --> 00:29:41,036
Speaker 1: behavioral scientist at the Harvard Kennedy School, Todd's job is

586
00:29:41,036 --> 00:29:44,436
Speaker 1: to use social science to solve big societal problems. And

587
00:29:44,476 --> 00:29:47,316
Speaker 1: the big societal problem he's most interested in fixing these

588
00:29:47,396 --> 00:29:51,116
Speaker 1: days is the challenge underlying this week's Happiness Hot Take,

589
00:29:51,516 --> 00:29:53,036
Speaker 1: the mail connection crisis.

590
00:29:53,356 --> 00:29:55,836
Speaker 3: It's hard to imagine it does not contribute to everything

591
00:29:55,836 --> 00:29:58,516
Speaker 3: that's wrong with our society today.

592
00:29:58,836 --> 00:30:01,676
Speaker 1: Before the Break, actor Andrew McCarthy and I talked about

593
00:30:01,716 --> 00:30:04,556
Speaker 1: lots of ways that guys can rebuild their romances at

594
00:30:04,596 --> 00:30:08,276
Speaker 1: the individual level, strategies like simply reaching out to friends

595
00:30:08,276 --> 00:30:11,676
Speaker 1: you haven't talked to while or making time for shared rituals.

596
00:30:12,156 --> 00:30:14,876
Speaker 1: But Todd wants to take a behavioral insights approach to

597
00:30:14,916 --> 00:30:17,996
Speaker 1: the male connection crisis, and that means finding an easy,

598
00:30:18,036 --> 00:30:22,156
Speaker 1: structural fix, one that goes beyond individual level solutions but

599
00:30:22,236 --> 00:30:25,436
Speaker 1: still doesn't require a lot of money or large scale interventions.

600
00:30:25,676 --> 00:30:27,876
Speaker 3: I think there's a lot of low hanging fruit on

601
00:30:28,036 --> 00:30:30,796
Speaker 3: ways that we can leverage pre existing infrastructure to help

602
00:30:30,796 --> 00:30:33,276
Speaker 3: people make and maintain relationships.

603
00:30:33,476 --> 00:30:35,836
Speaker 1: And Todd believes that one of the most promising tools

604
00:30:35,836 --> 00:30:40,196
Speaker 1: for rebuilding social connection has been hiding in plain sight sports.

605
00:30:40,556 --> 00:30:43,916
Speaker 3: Seventy five percent of American adults say that they are

606
00:30:44,516 --> 00:30:47,796
Speaker 3: fans of a team in one of the three big leagues.

607
00:30:48,036 --> 00:30:50,956
Speaker 3: Seventy five percent of Americans. That's more people than I

608
00:30:50,996 --> 00:30:53,996
Speaker 3: think identify with either of the big parties. Sixty three

609
00:30:54,036 --> 00:30:57,516
Speaker 3: percent of Americans say that they are passionate about their teams.

610
00:30:57,596 --> 00:30:59,836
Speaker 3: There is just a lot of people who are fans

611
00:30:59,876 --> 00:31:00,636
Speaker 3: of games.

612
00:31:00,956 --> 00:31:03,756
Speaker 1: Todd says that sports also has the right temporal cadence

613
00:31:03,836 --> 00:31:05,236
Speaker 1: for building stronger ties.

614
00:31:05,596 --> 00:31:09,836
Speaker 3: One thing that's cool about sports is that they are recurring,

615
00:31:10,396 --> 00:31:12,636
Speaker 3: and they are seasonal, and so they keep coming back.

616
00:31:13,316 --> 00:31:16,316
Speaker 3: It's three hours of time with someone in a football game,

617
00:31:16,396 --> 00:31:19,076
Speaker 3: or two hours of the basketball game, or potentially infinite

618
00:31:19,116 --> 00:31:21,436
Speaker 3: hours of the baseball game. But like it's got this

619
00:31:21,476 --> 00:31:23,916
Speaker 3: structure where it's not like staring face to face.

620
00:31:24,156 --> 00:31:26,876
Speaker 1: Psychologists have made the distinction between what they call face

621
00:31:26,916 --> 00:31:30,796
Speaker 1: to face friends versus shoulder to shoulder friends. Face to

622
00:31:30,836 --> 00:31:34,436
Speaker 1: face friends enjoy facing one another during their interactions, think

623
00:31:34,516 --> 00:31:38,436
Speaker 1: grabbing a coffee together or chatting emotionally eyed eye Shoulder

624
00:31:38,476 --> 00:31:42,836
Speaker 1: to shoulder relationships and contrast take place over more structured activities,

625
00:31:43,236 --> 00:31:46,156
Speaker 1: think going phishing, working on a car together, playing your

626
00:31:46,156 --> 00:31:50,236
Speaker 1: favorite board game, or watching football. Researchers have argued that

627
00:31:50,316 --> 00:31:52,996
Speaker 1: men today tend to be more comfortable when taking part

628
00:31:52,996 --> 00:31:56,356
Speaker 1: in shoulder to shoulder activities versus the face to face ones.

629
00:31:56,676 --> 00:31:58,516
Speaker 3: We don't have to talk when it gets awkward. If

630
00:31:58,516 --> 00:32:00,396
Speaker 3: we don't want to, we can go back to talking

631
00:32:00,436 --> 00:32:02,316
Speaker 3: about what's on the game. We can sit in silence.

632
00:32:02,476 --> 00:32:05,156
Speaker 1: Todd says that sports fandom also introduces one of the

633
00:32:05,196 --> 00:32:08,836
Speaker 1: strongest behavioral nudges for building connection, a sense of shared

634
00:32:08,836 --> 00:32:10,276
Speaker 1: belongung an experience.

635
00:32:10,636 --> 00:32:13,356
Speaker 3: Lawyer, you fan, I'm a Red Sox fan. Good, there

636
00:32:13,356 --> 00:32:15,556
Speaker 3: you go. So you get it other Red Sox fans

637
00:32:15,716 --> 00:32:21,396
Speaker 3: and you have a like, completely not sensible connection. Right. So,

638
00:32:21,436 --> 00:32:23,396
Speaker 3: like you meet another Red Sox fan, especially if you're

639
00:32:23,516 --> 00:32:24,196
Speaker 3: in New Haven.

640
00:32:24,716 --> 00:32:26,596
Speaker 1: As you know, there's a lot of Yankees fans.

641
00:32:26,276 --> 00:32:29,836
Speaker 3: Too many Yankees fans, one is too many. So you're

642
00:32:29,836 --> 00:32:31,916
Speaker 3: in New Haven and you run into a Red Sox fan,

643
00:32:32,316 --> 00:32:35,276
Speaker 3: you might chat with them. It's an invitation. Their hat

644
00:32:35,396 --> 00:32:37,916
Speaker 3: is an invitation saying talk to me about the Red Sox.

645
00:32:38,276 --> 00:32:39,996
Speaker 3: You know exactly where you were in two thousand and

646
00:32:40,036 --> 00:32:42,636
Speaker 3: four when they won their first World Series. So you

647
00:32:42,636 --> 00:32:45,916
Speaker 3: have these like history of shared experience. And what's also

648
00:32:45,956 --> 00:32:49,396
Speaker 3: cool is they're synchronized. You were experiencing the same thing

649
00:32:49,796 --> 00:32:52,276
Speaker 3: wherever these other people were at exactly the same time.

650
00:32:52,396 --> 00:32:57,996
Speaker 3: So it is like really deep synchronizing experience that makes

651
00:32:57,996 --> 00:33:00,676
Speaker 3: people feel like they're part of the same tribe. I

652
00:33:00,756 --> 00:33:04,716
Speaker 3: love that it is so misunderstood and it is so deep.

653
00:33:04,916 --> 00:33:06,796
Speaker 1: And Todd has found that the connection we get from

654
00:33:06,876 --> 00:33:10,676
Speaker 1: fandom is powerful enough to overcome some truly big divisions.

655
00:33:11,196 --> 00:33:12,956
Speaker 1: His work has shown that being a fan of the

656
00:33:12,996 --> 00:33:16,596
Speaker 1: same team can overcome the political differences that often prevent

657
00:33:16,636 --> 00:33:17,596
Speaker 1: people from connecting.

658
00:33:17,876 --> 00:33:21,476
Speaker 3: If I learned that you share my fandom, it depolarizes

659
00:33:21,476 --> 00:33:23,916
Speaker 3: my view of you more than anything else. We know

660
00:33:24,036 --> 00:33:29,116
Speaker 3: shared religion, shared race, shared hometown, shared education. Learning that

661
00:33:29,156 --> 00:33:31,636
Speaker 3: you're also an Eagles fan makes me like you more,

662
00:33:31,716 --> 00:33:33,916
Speaker 3: be willing to talk to you more, think you're more

663
00:33:34,076 --> 00:33:36,396
Speaker 3: like me. It is hard for a non fan to

664
00:33:36,476 --> 00:33:39,356
Speaker 3: understand but that dimension of similarity seems to be the

665
00:33:39,356 --> 00:33:42,276
Speaker 3: most powerful for depolarizing of anything we know.

666
00:33:42,676 --> 00:33:45,716
Speaker 1: Connecting through sports also capitalizes on one of the most

667
00:33:45,716 --> 00:33:48,236
Speaker 1: culturally acceptable ways for guys to hang out.

668
00:33:48,436 --> 00:33:51,476
Speaker 3: We ran one hilarious, I mean hilarious and sad study

669
00:33:51,756 --> 00:33:54,796
Speaker 3: where we ask men and women who are fans, how

670
00:33:54,876 --> 00:33:57,116
Speaker 3: likely would you be to text someone you just met

671
00:33:57,156 --> 00:33:59,556
Speaker 3: saying I like you, we should be friends. Let's spend

672
00:33:59,596 --> 00:34:02,676
Speaker 3: a few hours together this weekend. The other condition, I

673
00:34:02,796 --> 00:34:05,076
Speaker 3: like you, Let's be friends. Let's watch a game this weekend.

674
00:34:05,436 --> 00:34:08,036
Speaker 3: Women equally, because like spend a few hours together. You

675
00:34:08,036 --> 00:34:12,036
Speaker 3: could do lots of things men only watching a game.

676
00:34:12,636 --> 00:34:15,236
Speaker 3: It is one of the few socially acceptable things that

677
00:34:15,676 --> 00:34:17,836
Speaker 3: were like, that's totally normal for dudes to get together

678
00:34:17,836 --> 00:34:20,156
Speaker 3: and watch a game, But to go for a hike

679
00:34:20,236 --> 00:34:23,996
Speaker 3: together is less so. To go shopping together less so.

680
00:34:24,396 --> 00:34:26,316
Speaker 1: And that's why Todd and his colleagues have begun a

681
00:34:26,356 --> 00:34:30,316
Speaker 1: new project called the Fandom and Social Connection Initiative. The

682
00:34:30,316 --> 00:34:33,076
Speaker 1: goal of this research initiative is to test whether sports

683
00:34:33,116 --> 00:34:35,916
Speaker 1: watching could be a solution to the male connection crisis.

684
00:34:36,196 --> 00:34:38,476
Speaker 3: One of the things that surprised me as we started

685
00:34:38,476 --> 00:34:42,636
Speaker 3: diving into sports fandom is that one hundred million people

686
00:34:42,716 --> 00:34:45,436
Speaker 3: every week watch an NFL game, half of them watch

687
00:34:45,516 --> 00:34:49,116
Speaker 3: by themselves. So it seems like, given that watching a

688
00:34:49,156 --> 00:34:52,116
Speaker 3: game together is so normal, that maybe we can get

689
00:34:52,516 --> 00:34:54,676
Speaker 3: people to watch games together and that will make them

690
00:34:54,676 --> 00:34:55,436
Speaker 3: feel more connected.

691
00:34:55,516 --> 00:34:58,316
Speaker 1: Todd's experiment was simple. He just found people who said

692
00:34:58,316 --> 00:35:00,396
Speaker 1: they were planning to watch a game by themselves.

693
00:35:00,716 --> 00:35:03,516
Speaker 3: He then told them, hey, why don't you ask somebody

694
00:35:03,516 --> 00:35:06,596
Speaker 3: to watch with you? Who would you ask? How would

695
00:35:06,596 --> 00:35:10,636
Speaker 3: you ask them? And so the first finding is that

696
00:35:10,996 --> 00:35:14,876
Speaker 3: forty five percent of people in the treatment group end

697
00:35:14,956 --> 00:35:17,956
Speaker 3: up actually watching with someone relative to the control group.

698
00:35:18,036 --> 00:35:19,596
Speaker 3: That is, anyone who's got experience.

699
00:35:19,316 --> 00:35:21,316
Speaker 1: Huge affect in social science, it's ridiculous.

700
00:35:21,636 --> 00:35:24,556
Speaker 3: And then, unsurprisingly, and this is the whole point, they

701
00:35:24,596 --> 00:35:27,916
Speaker 3: feel much more connected to others while watching the game.

702
00:35:28,156 --> 00:35:30,356
Speaker 3: They enjoyed a lot more than they thought they would,

703
00:35:30,916 --> 00:35:33,916
Speaker 3: and in future weeks, the treatment group is way more

704
00:35:33,996 --> 00:35:36,076
Speaker 3: likely than the control group to watch with others, meaning

705
00:35:36,156 --> 00:35:38,916
Speaker 3: like they didn't realize it, but they enjoy the game

706
00:35:38,956 --> 00:35:40,476
Speaker 3: more when they watch it with others, and so they

707
00:35:40,476 --> 00:35:43,156
Speaker 3: have recurring social experiences.

708
00:35:43,596 --> 00:35:46,196
Speaker 1: The simple nudge of asking men to watch sports together

709
00:35:46,516 --> 00:35:49,716
Speaker 1: gets them to keep connecting week after week, and that's

710
00:35:49,716 --> 00:35:52,436
Speaker 1: why Todd thinks that watching sports together can be the

711
00:35:52,516 --> 00:35:55,596
Speaker 1: easy hack our society needs for getting men to invest

712
00:35:55,636 --> 00:35:59,196
Speaker 1: in the strong ties that lead to deeper romances. Todd

713
00:35:59,196 --> 00:36:02,436
Speaker 1: also says that sports fandom can provide a natural opportunity

714
00:36:02,596 --> 00:36:05,676
Speaker 1: to reconnect with people you've drifted away from.

715
00:36:05,356 --> 00:36:09,516
Speaker 3: Whether it's family or friends. It's just an excuse to

716
00:36:09,916 --> 00:36:13,916
Speaker 3: keep the connections alive. I have these incredible stories of

717
00:36:13,956 --> 00:36:16,796
Speaker 3: people who were like I went to college with this person,

718
00:36:17,596 --> 00:36:20,156
Speaker 3: lost touch. Twenty years later, the team was in the

719
00:36:20,156 --> 00:36:23,356
Speaker 3: final four, and so they texted their friend like, Hey,

720
00:36:23,756 --> 00:36:25,476
Speaker 3: haven't talked to you A wow, good to see our

721
00:36:25,476 --> 00:36:27,196
Speaker 3: guys in the final four or our women in the

722
00:36:27,236 --> 00:36:31,356
Speaker 3: final four. And then it led to this reconnection. It's

723
00:36:31,396 --> 00:36:32,996
Speaker 3: an excuse to be in touch with people.

724
00:36:33,236 --> 00:36:35,396
Speaker 1: This is why Todd thinks that fandom can be a

725
00:36:35,476 --> 00:36:38,476
Speaker 1: nearly universal way to solve Ven's connection crisis.

726
00:36:38,636 --> 00:36:40,476
Speaker 3: I don't want to say universal because twenty five percent

727
00:36:40,476 --> 00:36:43,956
Speaker 3: of Americans have not become fans yet, but hopefully we

728
00:36:43,956 --> 00:36:45,356
Speaker 3: can change that because it's good for them.

729
00:36:45,436 --> 00:36:47,676
Speaker 1: But if you're still not convinced about the connective power

730
00:36:47,676 --> 00:36:50,756
Speaker 1: of sports, fear not because Todd thinks you can embrace

731
00:36:50,796 --> 00:36:53,076
Speaker 1: the power of fandom even if you have no interest

732
00:36:53,076 --> 00:36:55,156
Speaker 1: in the Eagles or other professional sports.

733
00:36:55,356 --> 00:36:58,916
Speaker 3: What's cool about sports fandom is it's an entry point

734
00:36:58,956 --> 00:37:01,236
Speaker 3: for conversation that can lead to bigger things. But that's

735
00:37:01,276 --> 00:37:03,676
Speaker 3: true of any fandom. It doesn't have to be sports fandom.

736
00:37:04,196 --> 00:37:07,476
Speaker 3: I have friends who are really into Comic Con in

737
00:37:07,556 --> 00:37:10,196
Speaker 3: San Diego. They go out there and they dress up,

738
00:37:10,276 --> 00:37:13,036
Speaker 3: and they do it year over year. They make friends there.

739
00:37:13,596 --> 00:37:17,276
Speaker 3: So like just being a fan of something, just engaging

740
00:37:17,396 --> 00:37:21,036
Speaker 3: with something that has a recurring feature has a lot

741
00:37:21,036 --> 00:37:21,676
Speaker 3: of the benefits.

742
00:37:21,916 --> 00:37:24,196
Speaker 1: But Todd also says that if you're not a sports

743
00:37:24,196 --> 00:37:27,156
Speaker 1: fan yet, it's easy to change that. He thinks you

744
00:37:27,196 --> 00:37:29,876
Speaker 1: should just pick a random team. Ideally he would tell

745
00:37:29,916 --> 00:37:33,356
Speaker 1: you the Philadelphia Eagles and then just choose to become

746
00:37:33,356 --> 00:37:36,516
Speaker 1: a fan. He's seen that this technique works better than

747
00:37:36,516 --> 00:37:37,316
Speaker 1: most people think.

748
00:37:37,916 --> 00:37:43,316
Speaker 3: I have a friend who is a nerdy neuroimaging research

749
00:37:44,116 --> 00:37:47,516
Speaker 3: that you might know who lives in Philly. Very good friend,

750
00:37:47,596 --> 00:37:50,436
Speaker 3: so I can call him nerdy, and he for years

751
00:37:50,476 --> 00:37:54,236
Speaker 3: resisted becoming an Eagles fan, and I kept being on them,

752
00:37:54,276 --> 00:37:56,756
Speaker 3: like you can't live in Philly and not be an

753
00:37:56,756 --> 00:37:59,436
Speaker 3: Eagles fan. It's just not good for you or your kids. Again,

754
00:37:59,476 --> 00:38:01,916
Speaker 3: he's one of those it's ridiculous, it's ridiculous, it's ridiculous.

755
00:38:02,076 --> 00:38:04,916
Speaker 3: So then one year I finally broke through and he's like,

756
00:38:04,956 --> 00:38:08,916
Speaker 3: I'm gonna try it, and he quote says it is

757
00:38:08,956 --> 00:38:11,596
Speaker 3: the most surprisingly positive thing he has done in his

758
00:38:11,956 --> 00:38:14,756
Speaker 3: entire life, choosing to be an Eagles faning. So now

759
00:38:14,756 --> 00:38:18,476
Speaker 3: he watches with his kids at wahwah, people approach him

760
00:38:18,556 --> 00:38:21,436
Speaker 3: when he's wearing his gear, and at work. He's surprised

761
00:38:21,476 --> 00:38:23,516
Speaker 3: by how many of his fellow nerds actually, if he's

762
00:38:23,556 --> 00:38:25,436
Speaker 3: wearing gear, want to talk to him about it. But

763
00:38:25,516 --> 00:38:27,916
Speaker 3: the thing that he noted to me was he was

764
00:38:27,996 --> 00:38:30,796
Speaker 3: also surprised at the low barrier to entry.

765
00:38:31,236 --> 00:38:33,756
Speaker 1: Todd's work has convinced me that sports fandom might be

766
00:38:33,796 --> 00:38:36,916
Speaker 1: an effective low lift strategy for fighting the mail connection

767
00:38:37,036 --> 00:38:39,836
Speaker 1: crisis by meeting guys where they're at. And so I

768
00:38:39,836 --> 00:38:42,436
Speaker 1: couldn't help but ask my favorite eighties idol what he

769
00:38:42,596 --> 00:38:46,716
Speaker 1: thought about Todd's idea. Turns out, romance expert Andrew McCarthy,

770
00:38:47,036 --> 00:38:49,596
Speaker 1: who by his own admission, is not much of an athlete,

771
00:38:49,876 --> 00:38:52,596
Speaker 1: has also recognized the connective power of sports.

772
00:38:52,756 --> 00:38:55,276
Speaker 2: Like if I'm me to do and I like him

773
00:38:55,276 --> 00:38:57,036
Speaker 2: and I wanted to get to know him, I'm never

774
00:38:57,076 --> 00:38:59,316
Speaker 2: going to stay whereas my wife Mike, you want to

775
00:38:59,356 --> 00:39:02,036
Speaker 2: look up a qualthee sometime A guy never going to

776
00:39:02,116 --> 00:39:04,236
Speaker 2: do that. But if you want to, you play God

777
00:39:04,476 --> 00:39:06,196
Speaker 2: really bad? Oh me, did you want to play golf

778
00:39:06,236 --> 00:39:08,316
Speaker 2: one time? I think there really is something in that.

779
00:39:08,796 --> 00:39:11,556
Speaker 1: Andrew found that sports can even help guys break through

780
00:39:11,636 --> 00:39:14,276
Speaker 1: one of the biggest barriers to connection that he observed

781
00:39:14,316 --> 00:39:18,196
Speaker 1: on his journey, those traditional male gender norms. He says

782
00:39:18,236 --> 00:39:21,036
Speaker 1: that sports seems to allow even the John Waenist of

783
00:39:21,076 --> 00:39:24,356
Speaker 1: guys to connect more vulnerably. He was reminded of this

784
00:39:24,476 --> 00:39:26,716
Speaker 1: during a touching moment of his road trip when he

785
00:39:26,716 --> 00:39:29,796
Speaker 1: stopped for lunch at a diner in Kentucky. Above his

786
00:39:29,836 --> 00:39:32,436
Speaker 1: booth was a big poster of one of Kentucky's most

787
00:39:32,516 --> 00:39:35,676
Speaker 1: beloved sports heroes, the racehorse Secretariat.

788
00:39:35,836 --> 00:39:39,636
Speaker 2: I went instantly clashing back to when I was ten

789
00:39:39,716 --> 00:39:42,676
Speaker 2: years old and Secretary won the Kentucky Derby and then

790
00:39:42,676 --> 00:39:44,636
Speaker 2: eventually the Triple Crown and I sit and watched it

791
00:39:44,756 --> 00:39:46,676
Speaker 2: with my dad, who I was not close with, but

792
00:39:47,036 --> 00:39:50,236
Speaker 2: for some reason. He was very interested in these horse races,

793
00:39:50,316 --> 00:39:52,596
Speaker 2: and so I got interested in these horse races. And

794
00:39:52,676 --> 00:39:57,596
Speaker 2: when Secretariat won the Triple Crown, I just remember both

795
00:39:57,956 --> 00:40:01,076
Speaker 2: leaping off the couch and just embrace it into finding ourself.

796
00:40:01,116 --> 00:40:05,436
Speaker 2: And this embraced I've just felt so received by him

797
00:40:05,436 --> 00:40:06,956
Speaker 2: in a way that I rarely ever did.

798
00:40:07,516 --> 00:40:10,196
Speaker 1: Andrew realized that watching those horse races was one of

799
00:40:10,196 --> 00:40:12,356
Speaker 1: the only times that he ever felt close to his

800
00:40:12,356 --> 00:40:16,196
Speaker 1: emotionally guarded father. Watching that match together seem to allow

801
00:40:16,236 --> 00:40:19,436
Speaker 1: Andrew's dad to break through the usual gender norms so

802
00:40:19,436 --> 00:40:22,756
Speaker 1: that he could truly bond with his son. Seeing Secretariat's

803
00:40:22,796 --> 00:40:25,876
Speaker 1: photo in that diner helped Andrew recognize that if he

804
00:40:25,956 --> 00:40:28,396
Speaker 1: really wanted to complete his journey to reconnect with the

805
00:40:28,436 --> 00:40:31,196
Speaker 1: men in his life, he should probably include an attempt

806
00:40:31,236 --> 00:40:34,436
Speaker 1: to feel closer to his late father. Luckily, being in

807
00:40:34,516 --> 00:40:36,876
Speaker 1: Kentucky gave Andrew a touching way to do that.

808
00:40:37,076 --> 00:40:39,836
Speaker 2: I went out to the farm where Secretary was buried,

809
00:40:39,836 --> 00:40:42,396
Speaker 2: and I wanted to go to the gravestones. I wanted to

810
00:40:42,436 --> 00:40:44,996
Speaker 2: continue this moment to mine. Knew my dad would love

811
00:40:45,076 --> 00:40:46,636
Speaker 2: took stood over that gravestone.

812
00:40:46,716 --> 00:40:50,916
Speaker 1: Secretariat sports fandom seems to have all the ingredients needed

813
00:40:50,956 --> 00:40:54,756
Speaker 1: for strong ties. It creates recurring rituals, It gives people

814
00:40:54,796 --> 00:40:58,516
Speaker 1: a shared history. It offers opportunities for playfulness and joy.

815
00:40:59,036 --> 00:41:02,356
Speaker 1: Celebrating a game can even give guys permission to touch, hug,

816
00:41:02,436 --> 00:41:05,076
Speaker 1: and be physically close in a way that traditional male

817
00:41:05,156 --> 00:41:08,956
Speaker 1: gender norms often discourage. And research shows that these ingredients

818
00:41:08,956 --> 00:41:13,116
Speaker 1: together can make true vulnerability feel a little less intimidating,

819
00:41:13,476 --> 00:41:15,836
Speaker 1: which is why watching sports over time could be such

820
00:41:15,876 --> 00:41:18,956
Speaker 1: a huge way to not just build casual friendships, but

821
00:41:19,036 --> 00:41:22,636
Speaker 1: to invest in long term romances. And speaking of investing

822
00:41:22,636 --> 00:41:25,076
Speaker 1: in long term romances, I wanted to make sure we

823
00:41:25,116 --> 00:41:28,716
Speaker 1: had time to share how Andrew's romance journey ended. Before

824
00:41:28,716 --> 00:41:32,036
Speaker 1: he returned home. Andrew had traveled through twenty two different states,

825
00:41:32,236 --> 00:41:34,596
Speaker 1: had talked to hundreds of strangers, and had learned a

826
00:41:34,596 --> 00:41:37,476
Speaker 1: ton about mail connection. But the true book end of

827
00:41:37,556 --> 00:41:40,716
Speaker 1: Andrew's quest happened when he was visiting the final friend

828
00:41:40,756 --> 00:41:43,396
Speaker 1: on his list, a travel writing buddy who lived all

829
00:41:43,436 --> 00:41:45,476
Speaker 1: the way across the country in California.

830
00:41:45,676 --> 00:41:49,916
Speaker 2: Everyth in Berkeley with my friend Don, and we were

831
00:41:49,916 --> 00:41:51,796
Speaker 2: having a call fee after dinner one night, We're just

832
00:41:51,796 --> 00:41:54,516
Speaker 2: sitting out on a cafe watching the world go by,

833
00:41:55,236 --> 00:41:58,756
Speaker 2: and my son called, and Sammy called me up, and

834
00:41:58,756 --> 00:42:01,916
Speaker 2: he just plays guitar, so he launched in das on

835
00:42:01,916 --> 00:42:03,916
Speaker 2: this lick and he started playing me this lick. And

836
00:42:03,956 --> 00:42:06,116
Speaker 2: normally with my kids that will drop the world and listen,

837
00:42:06,516 --> 00:42:09,636
Speaker 2: you know, whenever they call I after the phone. Eventually

838
00:42:09,796 --> 00:42:12,156
Speaker 2: I cut him off to them that sounds great, but listen,

839
00:42:12,196 --> 00:42:13,876
Speaker 2: I'm with a friend. Can I call you back tomorrow?

840
00:42:14,316 --> 00:42:18,396
Speaker 2: I need to just like, really awesome, okay talking tomorrow.

841
00:42:18,436 --> 00:42:21,916
Speaker 2: And I thought in that moment that, you know, the

842
00:42:21,956 --> 00:42:24,356
Speaker 2: trip had started with him going you don't have any friends, Dad,

843
00:42:24,476 --> 00:42:27,036
Speaker 2: and him kind of going you're with your friend. Great,

844
00:42:27,156 --> 00:42:28,916
Speaker 2: I'll do it you later. I thought that was a

845
00:42:28,996 --> 00:42:31,996
Speaker 2: nice suit of it brought a full circle to me. Anyway.

846
00:42:33,156 --> 00:42:34,996
Speaker 1: I had that feel like, did you feel like you

847
00:42:35,036 --> 00:42:37,316
Speaker 1: had changed at that moment when you got to say that.

848
00:42:37,356 --> 00:42:40,796
Speaker 2: I felt like me. I felt like me, and I

849
00:42:41,156 --> 00:42:44,356
Speaker 2: didn't realize how much that had been lacking while not

850
00:42:44,516 --> 00:42:46,356
Speaker 2: having that active connection with my friend.

851
00:42:49,636 --> 00:42:52,636
Speaker 1: So that's this week's happiness hot take. Dudes today need

852
00:42:52,676 --> 00:42:56,156
Speaker 1: to follow Andrew's example and invest in romance. If you're

853
00:42:56,156 --> 00:42:58,276
Speaker 1: a guy listening right now, why not take a summer

854
00:42:58,356 --> 00:43:00,316
Speaker 1: road trip to the friend you haven't seen in a while.

855
00:43:01,316 --> 00:43:03,476
Speaker 1: Or you can use the connective power of sports and

856
00:43:03,556 --> 00:43:05,796
Speaker 1: call up a friend to watch your favorite team's next

857
00:43:05,836 --> 00:43:08,916
Speaker 1: game together. Maybe you can even share an old ritual

858
00:43:08,956 --> 00:43:12,196
Speaker 1: and some laughter during that hangout. But however you choose

859
00:43:12,196 --> 00:43:15,836
Speaker 1: to do it, please please work on reviving romances before

860
00:43:15,876 --> 00:43:18,556
Speaker 1: it's too late, because no matter what your gender is,

861
00:43:18,716 --> 00:43:22,116
Speaker 1: you'll be happier and healthier if you commit to prioritizing

862
00:43:22,156 --> 00:43:26,076
Speaker 1: the friendships you're currently taking for granted. Next week, I'll

863
00:43:26,076 --> 00:43:28,756
Speaker 1: continue my happiness hot takes with a return to one

864
00:43:28,756 --> 00:43:32,036
Speaker 1: of my favorite episodes from the Happiness Lab archives. I'll

865
00:43:32,036 --> 00:43:33,836
Speaker 1: take on the hot take that gets me in the

866
00:43:33,836 --> 00:43:37,036
Speaker 1: most hot water with my students. We'll see why money

867
00:43:37,156 --> 00:43:39,156
Speaker 1: does it make us as happy as we assume.

868
00:43:39,436 --> 00:43:41,636
Speaker 2: If you have an enemy, go buy them a lottery

869
00:43:41,676 --> 00:43:45,876
Speaker 2: ticket because on the off chance that they win, their

870
00:43:45,916 --> 00:43:47,476
Speaker 2: life is going to be really messed up.

871
00:43:48,356 --> 00:43:51,156
Speaker 1: That's next week on the Happiness Lab with me Doctor

872
00:43:51,236 --> 00:43:54,076
Speaker 1: Laurie Santos