1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:12,399 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. M 4 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:27,720 Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. Usually 5 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 1: that's Noel, but he's not here today, and we promise 6 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: that as far as we know, our compatriot is not possessed. 7 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 1: We are, of course joined with our super producer, Paul Decant. 8 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: They call me Ben. You are you? And that makes 9 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 1: this stuff they don't want you to know. The power 10 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 1: of podcast compels us to perform certain rituals at certain times, 11 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: and this is one of our rituals that you and 12 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: I have been doing for a number of years. Matt. 13 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:09,400 Speaker 1: We we research something strange, we may conduct an interview, 14 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 1: we may travel somewhere, and then we come together in 15 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: this place and with our Coca Cola holy water and 16 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: pour it into our mouths. At least I do I 17 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: think you have. You've got straight up coffee today, which 18 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: is just as good, if not better. And our our 19 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: relics are with us, our microphones, our headphones are smelly 20 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 1: pop filters. That was the subject of discussion before we 21 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,840 Speaker 1: dropped in. Everybody uses them. And you know, sometimes you 22 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 1: have coffee breath that it's all good. Sometimes you have 23 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 1: Coca cola breath. My strategy, by the way, is I'm 24 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: pretty specific with this. I try to stay away from 25 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: the mic. You know, I don't want to get right 26 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:57,840 Speaker 1: right on it. It's just length voice over. Yeah. And additionally, 27 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: one could argue, if we were to look at podcasting 28 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 1: as a ritual or a right that what you and 29 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:12,080 Speaker 1: I are doing now is incantation because we do spend uh, 30 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,399 Speaker 1: you know, you and I especially have spent a lot 31 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: of time behind the scenes or or off air, off 32 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: camera saying, you know what, how should we approach an idea? 33 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:29,680 Speaker 1: Should we structure it? Is there a power in formula 34 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:34,920 Speaker 1: and ritual and right? And we think there is, yeah, 35 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: at least to an extent or in a way, because 36 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: you expect it, you as a person receiving a ritual 37 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:51,160 Speaker 1: in this sort or an incantation like this, Um, I 38 00:02:51,200 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: don't know. It's it's almost as if it triggers a 39 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 1: thing that is already implanted in your brain, the pathways 40 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: that are already there because you kind of know what 41 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,119 Speaker 1: it is. Then it's going to open up new pathways 42 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 1: that are connected to that one. Right, that's the question 43 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: that you might want to ask yourself. Longtime listeners, friends 44 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: and neighbors, have we primed you? Have we programmed you 45 00:03:12,120 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: to anticipate certain stimuli and respond in certain ways? Yes? Yeah, 46 00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 1: the answer is yes. First time listeners, welcome to the show. 47 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,160 Speaker 1: I hope you and hope you enjoy it. Before we 48 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: jump into today's topic, we want to start with a 49 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: quick quote that kind of sets up maybe the framing 50 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: of mind for some of the people who think in 51 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:42,560 Speaker 1: the same way of these characters. Quote today, the world 52 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,360 Speaker 1: does not turn from God because it is idolatrous. Rather, 53 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: it pursues pure atheism so as to put science on 54 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:54,440 Speaker 1: the altar. And that's from Father Gabriel am Or and 55 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: he is someone we will get to a little later 56 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: that Wait, m what do you think of when you 57 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: hear the word exorcism? I see images from film and television, 58 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: mostly film movies, the Exorcist in particular. I have very 59 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:19,600 Speaker 1: vivid images of body rising off of a bed of vomit, 60 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:24,120 Speaker 1: coming from a mouth, of discolored face. Um, that is 61 00:04:24,440 --> 00:04:27,159 Speaker 1: possession in particular. And then when I think of exorcism, 62 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: I think of holy water, and I think of um 63 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: reading from a Bible, reading the Word of God. Um. 64 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:42,320 Speaker 1: Other symbology crosses, artifacts of that sort, Bibles, investments, Yes, 65 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: the touching of hands. Um, that's what I see, a 66 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:50,480 Speaker 1: very Hollywood version of exorcism. Agreed, you know, and I 67 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: believe that that's something common. You know, a lot of people, 68 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: at least in the West, when we hear the term exorcism, 69 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: we think of, as you said, Hollywood, a good horror film. Yeah, 70 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: because most of us haven't experienced a true exorcism, or 71 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,919 Speaker 1: what would be considered a real exorcism, right at least 72 00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: in that in that specific Catholic framework, right in the past. 73 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:24,559 Speaker 1: On this very show, almost four years ago to the day, 74 00:05:25,400 --> 00:05:29,360 Speaker 1: we covered the phenomenon of exorcism in general, along with 75 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 1: how it differs across time and cultures. We'll give a 76 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: brief background of exorcism and possession here, and for more 77 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: in depth information, please check out our earlier episode, Exorcisms 78 00:05:44,440 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 1: and Introduction. Not the most creative title, you know, that's 79 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,479 Speaker 1: exactly what it was. Though it was it was we 80 00:05:50,520 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: did a pretty good job. I really liked that episode. 81 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,200 Speaker 1: I went back and listened to it and I was surprised. 82 00:05:56,960 --> 00:06:01,360 Speaker 1: Not not that I expected it to be terrible. Bolten 83 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 1: was such a long time ago. Now we're just learning 84 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: what the show was, right. We were like priest conducting 85 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 1: our first Okay, all right, yeah, we're gonna let that 86 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: analogy go. So here are the facts, the brief background 87 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,040 Speaker 1: broad stroke stuff, Matt and I will give you. Here 88 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: is the following. The practice of exorcism predates the existence 89 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: of all Abramaic religion, Judaism, Islam, Christianity, all of it. 90 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: This stuff was old beings by the time Jesus Christ 91 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:41,239 Speaker 1: or Moses or any of the other religious figures, right Maha, 92 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: of course, Mohammed and so on, before anybody else came 93 00:06:45,080 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: into the the fold or the zeitgeist of spiritual belief, 94 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: that the concept of some kind of spirit entering a 95 00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:58,480 Speaker 1: corporeal body somehow and then taking it out. Yeah, yeah, 96 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: non consensually entering and being non consensually pooled by the 97 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:08,720 Speaker 1: time the story of Jesus Christ casting spirits into pigs 98 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,960 Speaker 1: came about, or by the time you know, people heard 99 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: that story, whether they heard it in an oral tradition, 100 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: whether they who knows, witnessed it themselves, or whether they 101 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: read about it. Centuries and millennia later, the concept of 102 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: exorcism would have already been more than familiar to the audience. 103 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: In ancient Samaria and Babylon, exorcists already played a prominent role, 104 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 1: somewhere between that of a priest and a doctor. And 105 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 1: it's it's pretty fascinating because the rituals from what we know, 106 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: of course, a lot of this has lost the time, 107 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: or publicly available knowledge has been lost the time. The 108 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: rituals would vary, but they still relied on artifacts, techniques, 109 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 1: and as you said, met, the main goal was to 110 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: drive out uh, a spirit. They might not have used 111 00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 1: the word demon, maybe more like spirit, a spirit that, yeah, 112 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:13,080 Speaker 1: again non consensually was there, probably of a bad nature 113 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: and negative nature, right. And this could be in some 114 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: cases this could be a human spirit, a ghost, right, 115 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 1: an angry ancestor. In other cases, though in a way 116 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 1: that's more familiar with us now in the modern day, 117 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: it would be something that never was human, a monster 118 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 1: from another plain kind of exactly. Yeah. And they would 119 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: concoct these um magical substances or potions, these relics and 120 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:51,720 Speaker 1: artifacts composed of animals or plants or you know, different 121 00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: stones that were thought to have various powers in the 122 00:08:55,240 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 1: world of sympathetic magic. We're talking about iron from meteors reads, flower, 123 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: animal hair. Birds were really big in this time, and 124 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 1: birds still are symbolically hugely important. Right. Oh yeah, they're 125 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: They're not to possess, or they have been for a 126 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 1: long time thought to possess some kind of supernatural power, 127 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: especially white owls. White owls, and you have to imagine 128 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 1: that image would be startling in a way. And yeah, 129 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: I guess you can. You can just imagine viewing one 130 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 1: just perched outside a window or something, or perched outside 131 00:09:33,679 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 1: of a home, just sitting there in a tree and gazing. Now, 132 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:44,560 Speaker 1: we have both lived outside of urban areas in the past, right, 133 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:51,400 Speaker 1: and I believe I believe Paul has as well. I 134 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:56,559 Speaker 1: have to admit, even even as someone without nules crippling 135 00:09:56,640 --> 00:10:03,679 Speaker 1: fear of all things avian, when I unexpectedly see a 136 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: large predatory bird, I mean that's a double take moment. Yeah, 137 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say I'm startled, not frightened, because usually the 138 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: for a long time now I've been a bit too 139 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:19,560 Speaker 1: large for the average bird to attack. But have you 140 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:23,640 Speaker 1: have you ever been in a situation where you hear 141 00:10:23,679 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 1: a slight rustle and you turn to the left and 142 00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 1: there's a hawk or a falcon or something. Yeah, I 143 00:10:28,360 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 1: have two really fast stories. Okay, So the other day 144 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: I was driving to work in the morning. It was 145 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: very foggy outside. It was the day I posted on 146 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: our Instagram a couple of pictures of Atlanta in this heavy, 147 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: misty fog. Conspiracy stuff show feel free to follow us well. 148 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 1: As I got to the stop sign in my neighborhood, 149 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: I looked at my right and I see, I'm not 150 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 1: really sure what it is at first, and then I realized, oh, 151 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: it is a large brown hawk, very large, about the 152 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: size of a cat, a large cat, and it has 153 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 1: its wings wrapped around something. It's sitting or standing on 154 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: the ground, and something is like kind of twitching and 155 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:11,040 Speaker 1: moving underneath its wings, and you can see it kind 156 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,320 Speaker 1: of readjusting itself, and then it opens its wings a 157 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 1: little bit. It sends its beak down really fast around 158 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: the neck of this squirrel that it's got trapped, and 159 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: it's and then it's holding it down still, and I 160 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:26,240 Speaker 1: swear it looks up and it looks right at my car, 161 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:28,520 Speaker 1: because I just stopped and I just stare at it 162 00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: for a little while it stares at me, and then 163 00:11:31,800 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: I go, all right, I'm moving on and I'm driving 164 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: carefully just in case. This is an omen of some sort. 165 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: And the other one is in my backyard there. It's 166 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: a fenced in area. There is a family of large owls. 167 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 1: And I didn't realize this until one night I took 168 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: my small docks and terrier mix out in the back 169 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 1: to go the bathroom buddy, and I heard a sound 170 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,520 Speaker 1: that I was unfamiliar with. I did not know what 171 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 1: type of where it was. I didn't know anything. I 172 00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: just knew it was a large bird and it was 173 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: just above me in this large oak tree. Was it 174 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: a vocalization. It was a vocalization that I cannot reproduce 175 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: and uh oh, it sounded like a curse word. Huh yes, 176 00:12:15,280 --> 00:12:18,240 Speaker 1: but it it was so eerie, and I didn't know 177 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: until when I got this powerful flashlight out of my 178 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: house shined it up, and it was just this huge 179 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:27,240 Speaker 1: owl perched on this tree, and it was again like 180 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: just staring down at the source of light at me. 181 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 1: And the feeling even now in then was of dread 182 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,079 Speaker 1: of some sort. You know, and don't be fooled by 183 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 1: the vocalization either because owls are some of the quietest 184 00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:51,800 Speaker 1: predatory birds. Uh, I can completely understand where you're coming from. 185 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: And that's so cool that you lived there, because you know, 186 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 1: your chances of having any sort of rootin problem have 187 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: just bottomed out. Yes, very very true. Anyway, that's enough 188 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:06,680 Speaker 1: on owls. Oh, yes, yes, yes, that's stuff. And then 189 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: you know, things like ravens would be thought to be 190 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 1: messengers owls also, um, but owls were more associated in 191 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:21,080 Speaker 1: these ancient times and Samaria, at least with insidious powers, 192 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,199 Speaker 1: the powers of darkness and death and decay and evil. Right, 193 00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: whereas ravens ravens were like bad news, but owls owls 194 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 1: were terrible news. Then of course you could probably see 195 00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 1: this coming, folks. The idea of water water symbolized the 196 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,840 Speaker 1: presence of Ea, the god of water, so it was 197 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 1: often sprinkled on the victim of a possession during incantations 198 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,080 Speaker 1: to symbolize the cleansing of the victim. Right, the influence 199 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:58,520 Speaker 1: of the god of water taking away the contamination of 200 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: this evil spirit symbol we see with modern day baptisms, 201 00:14:02,480 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: right exactly. Hold in one spittal, by the way, it 202 00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: was especially important. It was thought to be a potent 203 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: toxin when used against demons, and that's saliva. So that's 204 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: why several ancient texts refer to these sorcerer priests as kasapu. 205 00:14:21,440 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: However it's pronounced which was Arabic for two poison, and 206 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: the Samerian equivalent was meant saliva or spittal. The idea 207 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: of being the poison and demons. And as you pointed out, 208 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,480 Speaker 1: many of the vestiges of these older practices can be 209 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: seen in exorcism rituals and rights around the world today. Incantations, 210 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: the use of sanctified or holy water, the use of 211 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: animals and relics. In this episode for the strange phenomenon 212 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:56,400 Speaker 1: will examine today, we're going to focus on Catholic perspectives 213 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 1: concerning exorcism. So what if we are asking the Catholic 214 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: Church and we're hanging out with Pope Francis and we 215 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 1: ask him what's exorcism? What does he say? He's going 216 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: to say, the act of driving out or awarding off 217 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,120 Speaker 1: demons or evil spirits from persons, places or things which 218 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:20,600 Speaker 1: are believed to be possessed or infested by them, or 219 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: are liable to become victims or instruments of their malice. 220 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: And that's according to be Catholic Encyclopedia. Right. That does 221 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: sound like there would be a bit of a complex 222 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,720 Speaker 1: sentence structure to generate off the dome, doesn't it. While 223 00:15:34,840 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: the treatment of this perceived conditioned spiritual possession may vary 224 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: from one culture to the next, the idea is extraordinarily common, 225 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:49,880 Speaker 1: as we discussed in our previous episode, throughout history, and 226 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: the gist of it is pretty much the same across time, culture, 227 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: and space, and evil typically non corporeal entity or nonphysical 228 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 1: entity in vague it's a physical vessel. In horror films 229 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,280 Speaker 1: or horror stories, this is often a person, often a 230 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: kid who turns really creepy, or an elderly person, because 231 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: those two ends of the mortality cycle of humanity are 232 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: the things that psychologically tend to creep people out the most. Yeah, well, 233 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: and in a way are the weakest. That's a great point. 234 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: That is a really great point. Also, however, places or 235 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: objects may be considered infected. There's an excellent article on 236 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: our parent website, how stuff Works. It's called how exorcisms Work, 237 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: and they break down some of the approaches the Catholic 238 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: Church takes to exorcisms. This article, by the way, is 239 00:16:51,880 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: solely based on Catholicism, and we can't stress it enough. Exorcism, possession, 240 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:03,760 Speaker 1: it is not a Catholic thing alone. It's just something 241 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 1: like if you hear about it here in the US, 242 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,480 Speaker 1: you are most likely going to hear about it through 243 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: this lens. Anyhow, According to this, the Catholic Church recognizes 244 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: not one, but several types of exorcism, and some of 245 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 1: them may surprise you. Yeah. The first one is baptismal exorcism, 246 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:25,239 Speaker 1: and this is when you bring an infant like a 247 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:30,480 Speaker 1: baby prior to being officially baptized into the church. Um, 248 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:32,600 Speaker 1: you bring it into the church to cleanse it of 249 00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 1: the evil resulting from its original sin, which is dark 250 00:17:38,160 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: and away. But it's also the least worrisome of the 251 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:47,400 Speaker 1: types of exorcism. Um. The second one is simple exorcism. 252 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: And this is more of a blessing really than pulling 253 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: things out of it so much, I guess in a way, 254 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 1: but you're you're blessing a place or a thing, so 255 00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 1: a physical object, to rid it of some kind of evil. 256 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:04,080 Speaker 1: Infant station right right, and you see similar that this 257 00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 1: sort of thing, while qualifying as exorcism, is something that 258 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: you would see in other cultures, perhaps the idea that 259 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: you may have heard from some of your college roommates 260 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: in the past of burning sage to purify a place 261 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:25,600 Speaker 1: because something bad happened there. Then, of course there's real exorcism, 262 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: the real deal, the one we all hear about performing 263 00:18:30,240 --> 00:18:34,480 Speaker 1: the capital R right of capital e exorcism to rid 264 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 1: a living human being of possession by diabolical entity. And 265 00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: that brings us to another question. How do you know 266 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,720 Speaker 1: whether someone's being possessed? How can you tell the difference 267 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,520 Speaker 1: between someone who's just being a real a hole versus 268 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,680 Speaker 1: someone who has become an unwilling vessel for infernal forces 269 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:53,919 Speaker 1: of the you know, the left hand of darkness. Right. 270 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:59,679 Speaker 1: According to the Church, there are several tell tale signs 271 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 1: of demonic possession that anyone can sense. In general, you 272 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: don't have to be a member of the clergy. Two 273 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:13,719 Speaker 1: notice these things speaking or understanding languages which the person 274 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: has never learned. It's different from speaking in tongues gloss alalia, 275 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: because that is believed to be indicative of religious ecstasy, 276 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:33,919 Speaker 1: whereas speaking in fluent Aramaic or something is considered to 277 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: be a sign that there's a different entity at the 278 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 1: wheel of your mind. Yeah, the traditional speaking in tongues 279 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: is it's just gibberish. It's doesn't it's not actual formations 280 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:51,800 Speaker 1: of words or sentences generally. Then there's knowing or somehow 281 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,520 Speaker 1: revealing things that the person has no way of knowing it. 282 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: Just if it was regular times and this person just 283 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: was existing in their life, there's no way they could 284 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:05,399 Speaker 1: have known this clair avoidance. Yeah, in physical strength beyond 285 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 1: the person's natural physical makeup, which is an interesting thing 286 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:14,760 Speaker 1: because we know in times of great stress that can 287 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: actually happen. Hysterical strength is a thing to some degree. Uh. 288 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 1: And then a violent aversion to God, the Virgin Mary, 289 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:27,200 Speaker 1: the Cross, and other images of the Catholic faith. Yeah, 290 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,520 Speaker 1: which again we have seen over and over. So where 291 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,919 Speaker 1: does that leave us today. We'll tell you after a 292 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor and we're back. So today, exorcism 293 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 1: remains the subject of this intense interest across the world 294 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 1: for people across the world, both for believers that think 295 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:56,520 Speaker 1: exorcism is real and you're actually bringing evil spirits out 296 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: of a person and skeptics who think it's just a 297 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:05,120 Speaker 1: strange ritual that's just stuck around an historical artifact or something. Yeah, yeah, 298 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,080 Speaker 1: that's that's really good pointment, because one thing that you 299 00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:15,879 Speaker 1: notice is that even the people who you know, the 300 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:20,480 Speaker 1: people I refer to them as pseudo skeptics, who are 301 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: so into their idea of being a skeptic that they 302 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: have severely crippled their ability to apply critical thinking, even 303 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 1: even those people have a huge interest in the concept. Right. 304 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: It's entertaining in horror and in fiction, right, and it's 305 00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:51,400 Speaker 1: also fascinating just from an anthropological perspective. Right. Oh yeah, Well, well, 306 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,200 Speaker 1: with the quote we had at the top of the show, 307 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,160 Speaker 1: it seems in this world of science that in which 308 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: we exist right now, that exorcisms should have just been 309 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:03,960 Speaker 1: left by the wayside, and they most certainly haven't exactly. 310 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 1: A modern science often proposes that historical cases of exorcism 311 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 1: can be attributed to a number of different mundane causes, 312 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 1: including things like mental mental health issues that would not 313 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 1: have been recognized in the same framework through which we 314 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:32,639 Speaker 1: recognize them today, stuff like schizophrenia, right, possibly dementia for instance, 315 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:37,680 Speaker 1: or even arguably in the case of the elderly Alzheimer's 316 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:45,920 Speaker 1: anything that seems to dramatically change someone's behavior, their emotional state, 317 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: or distress them other undiagnosed, unrecognized diseases, genetic conditions. And 318 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,960 Speaker 1: then the more complex, the more complex phenomenon of social 319 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:03,360 Speaker 1: pressures or behavior run in contravention to social moraraids, norms 320 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:08,199 Speaker 1: or values of the time. Are you you know one 321 00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 1: thing that would happen in patriarchal societies? Right? Are you 322 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: a woman who doesn't want to be in this arranged marriage? 323 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:20,320 Speaker 1: You must be possessed by the devil. How else would 324 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: you have a problem with this? It's not you, it's 325 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 1: this demon that said you shouldn't marry this fifty year 326 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 1: old man in your twelve It must be it must 327 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: be called the priest. So how far do we take 328 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: this idea today? Though? Are there literally modern exorcisms in 329 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,920 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church spoiler alert, Yes, of course, But if so, 330 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:48,800 Speaker 1: how seriously does the church take them? Here's where it 331 00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,960 Speaker 1: gets crazy again. Like we said, while exorcism might seem 332 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: like this artifact of some you know, the bloody religious 333 00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 1: history that we've that humanity has experienced, it's still taken 334 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,639 Speaker 1: very seriously by the Catholic Church. More seriously, in fact, 335 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 1: in recent decades than it had been prior to that. 336 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: The there is this thing that this episode is really 337 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:19,080 Speaker 1: all about, called the International Association of Exorcists, and here 338 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:22,639 Speaker 1: let's let's talk about it. This is a Roman Catholic organization, 339 00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:25,440 Speaker 1: and it sounds ancient. It sounds like something that would 340 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 1: have been created in the fifteen hundreds of sixteen hundreds 341 00:24:29,119 --> 00:24:32,359 Speaker 1: or something. But no, it wasn't founded until the year 342 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 1: nineteen ninety and there were six priests that got together, 343 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: including Father Gabriel am Or with the quote at the 344 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: top of the show, and Father Jeremy Davies right. Father 345 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: Gabriel m Or is someone that we touched upon in 346 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,800 Speaker 1: a couple of previous episodes. He was born in nineteen 347 00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 1: twenty five exorcists for the Diocese of Rome. He claimed 348 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 1: to have performed I believe over a hundred and sixty 349 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 1: thousands exorcisms. Who yeah. During his now he was a 350 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 1: priest for decades and decades. He was often called by 351 00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:27,000 Speaker 1: reputable news sources the Vaticans chief exorcist, which is more 352 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:29,680 Speaker 1: I think we of me has said that as well. 353 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 1: It turns out that's more the translation, because he has 354 00:25:36,480 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: exorcist for the Diocese of Rome. But he's not. He wasn't. 355 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,840 Speaker 1: There's not some sort of joint chiefs of staff for 356 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: exorcism in Rome. And he's not the guy with the 357 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: most stars or the biggest epaulets or whatever. He was 358 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,360 Speaker 1: a priest for years and years before he became an 359 00:25:58,359 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 1: official exorcist, and that's the thing we see with a 360 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: lot of Catholic priest It's it's not something that people 361 00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 1: enter into on their first day of seminary. He was 362 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: a priest in nineteen fifty four and he did not 363 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:18,959 Speaker 1: become an exorcist until nineteen eighties six under the tutelage 364 00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:25,439 Speaker 1: of Candido Amantini. Uh. He loved the film The Exorcist. 365 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 1: I thought that was fascinating. He loved it because he 366 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: thought it was substantially correct does based on true events. Uh. 367 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: And he thought the special effects were exaggerated. But he 368 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: picked here him shrug inning, going that's a you know, 369 00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: it's a movie. So he in defense of this film, 370 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,720 Speaker 1: he said that he was in an interview with London 371 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: Sunday Telegraph and he stressed that people need to know 372 00:26:52,840 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 1: what we do we in this sense being exorcist. The 373 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 1: different the different claims of the number of exorcisms that 374 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:09,199 Speaker 1: am more conducted. The reason for that difference is that 375 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: there's no central database for the amount of exorcisms, either 376 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:21,040 Speaker 1: performed per year performed in total. Uh, but we we 377 00:27:21,080 --> 00:27:23,120 Speaker 1: can't make some guesses on some of this stuff later. 378 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:29,800 Speaker 1: But that's why you hear his numbers differing. In October 379 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: two thousand and was reported he had performed over fifty 380 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:37,920 Speaker 1: thousand exorcisms. In he said the number was seventy thousand, 381 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,879 Speaker 1: but by May of two thousand thirteen he said he 382 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,320 Speaker 1: had performed a hundred and sixty thousand over the course 383 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: of his career. In important note here, as we said, 384 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:52,280 Speaker 1: there are different types of exorcism, so that could count 385 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:57,080 Speaker 1: everything from praying for a bad place to be cleansed 386 00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:00,440 Speaker 1: of some sort of influence to the if you would 387 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:05,120 Speaker 1: see in the film The Exorcist. So this guy who 388 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,679 Speaker 1: has you know, had already by the year ninet had 389 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 1: a lot of experience with exorcism. He and his buddies, 390 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: his compatriots um along with Jeremy Davies, they formed this 391 00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 1: organization and there are only six people at this time. 392 00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,200 Speaker 1: But then by the year two thousand there are over 393 00:28:24,240 --> 00:28:28,199 Speaker 1: two hundred members of this association and the purpose of 394 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:33,000 Speaker 1: it in totality was to increase the number of official 395 00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: exorcists across the world, which is, you know, I guess 396 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: something you would want to do if this is a 397 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: problem that you see. Um and Father Amorth hoped that 398 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: the existence of this organization would shed light on what 399 00:28:46,240 --> 00:28:49,440 Speaker 1: he saw as this growing and often ignored problem, which 400 00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: was demonic possession, real demonic possession, and also a lack 401 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: of priests with the knowledge and authority to perform the 402 00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:01,880 Speaker 1: rights of exorcism. Important point here with that phenomenal growth 403 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:06,360 Speaker 1: from nine to two thousand uh so, from over the 404 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,320 Speaker 1: course of ten years and went from six to two 405 00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: hundred members, it still was not formally acknowledged or approved 406 00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 1: of by the actual Roman Catholic Church until twenty fourteen, 407 00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: but a lot of stuff was happening in the interim 408 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,920 Speaker 1: because of those two hundred members and two thousand several 409 00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: went to a national meeting of exorcists organized in two 410 00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: thousand four by the Archbishop of Mexico City, Cardinal Nolberto 411 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,120 Speaker 1: Rivera Carrera. The purpose of this meeting was to fight 412 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: back against what they saw as the spread of Satanism, 413 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 1: to discuss ways in which to use the word of 414 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 1: God to denounce everything that is against God, which isn't 415 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: just it's everything. It's similar to the approach that the 416 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: n Essay or other PO nine eleven intelligence agencies take 417 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: towards rooting out terrorism something against national security. National security 418 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 1: probably a better way to put it. So it's anything 419 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: loosely associated. It's it's sort of mentality where um, everybody's 420 00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: playing six degrees of Kevin Bacon, but now it's six 421 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: degrees of terrorism, six degrees of satan. So it's not 422 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: whether it's not whether something is openly associated with what 423 00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: they see as um the powers of darkness with their 424 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: by its practitioners, right like most people using Awigia board 425 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:42,479 Speaker 1: are probably just playing a game from Parker Brothers. Right. 426 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: Maybe maybe, but in this mind they're they're saying, whether, 427 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: regardless of whether the practitioners or the audience feels this 428 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 1: is an infernal thing, we are going to combat it. 429 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: We are going to root out every piece of possible 430 00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: influence that might be coming through these outlets. So what 431 00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 1: what kind of stuff is this? Everything from witchcraft to 432 00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: magic uh to occultism, fortune telling, the New age movements 433 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 1: of using crystals for healing, even masonry and important note 434 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: that's freemasonry, not just brick lane. Are you sure, because 435 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,920 Speaker 1: I don't know churches are built of still. Oh yeah, 436 00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 1: I guess so. Alright, Um, the meeting itself was attended 437 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: by over five hundred people. Most of these people are priests. 438 00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: They were from all across Mexico. Um. All of them 439 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: were somehow involved with exorcism, whether you know they were 440 00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 1: new to the game or seasoned veterans. UM. Besides Cardinal Carrera, 441 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,479 Speaker 1: other notable guests included, as we kind of mentioned before, UM, 442 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: Father Mario Angel or Angel Flores Ramos. He was the 443 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: director of Theology at the Department of the Pontifical University 444 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:58,600 Speaker 1: of Mexico. Father Giancarlo Grandma Lazzo the president of the 445 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:02,040 Speaker 1: International Association of Exorcists at the time. So he is 446 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: the president of the association UM that we discussed earlier. 447 00:32:06,520 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: You also had Father Gabriel am Or, the founder of 448 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: that association or one of the founders of that association. 449 00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: He's the driving force, sort of president emeritus. Yeah. Sure, 450 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 1: So there's a big question that comes up here. And oh, 451 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: all right, before we get to it just to paint 452 00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:32,200 Speaker 1: some of Father Amorth's character. This is an unrelated story 453 00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:37,760 Speaker 1: we found in our research that that I think is worthwhile. 454 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:46,880 Speaker 1: So Father Gabriel am Or was not just a not 455 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: just an exorcist, right, listen to me. Just an exorcist, 456 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:54,600 Speaker 1: those guys they well, you know what, they will really 457 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: mess up your weekend just on a side code. So 458 00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:03,200 Speaker 1: the was not was not merely an exorcist, Or did 459 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: not relegate his integrity or sense of purpose solely to 460 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:14,720 Speaker 1: these ideas. He also he he also fought against what 461 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 1: he saw as corruption within the Vatican itself. He famously 462 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: in two thousand and twelve attempted to blow the whistle 463 00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:32,000 Speaker 1: on one of the Vatican's most enduring mysteries, which was 464 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:40,760 Speaker 1: the disappearance of a child named Emmanuela or landi Ine. 465 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:45,760 Speaker 1: She disappeared, she was fifteen years old childhood, a Vatican employee, 466 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 1: and it became a mystery that was never going to 467 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,760 Speaker 1: be solved, and people have made various claims about it. 468 00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:02,400 Speaker 1: In two thousand five, i've an anonymous caller to an 469 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:08,280 Speaker 1: Italian crime show on TV said that you could find 470 00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,560 Speaker 1: evidence of what happened to her in the tomb of 471 00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 1: a mobster who was gunned down by rival gangsters in 472 00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:18,720 Speaker 1: the nineties. But in two thousand and twelve, Father Amor 473 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:26,560 Speaker 1: said that the girl was abducted by people within the 474 00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:33,840 Speaker 1: Vatican and part of the establishment who had a sexual 475 00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: motive to the crime, that she was forced to take 476 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:42,520 Speaker 1: part in child abuse parties. And he has the quote 477 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:46,360 Speaker 1: here the network involved diplomatic personnel from a foreign embassy 478 00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:49,399 Speaker 1: to the Holy See. I believe emmanuela Holy See being 479 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: the Vatican. I believe Manuela ended up a victim of 480 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:58,520 Speaker 1: this circle. Uh. He told this to an Italian newspaper 481 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:09,359 Speaker 1: called Let's Jampa, and he dismissed the various plots going 482 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:13,839 Speaker 1: around that it was something some sort of wet work, 483 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,200 Speaker 1: black bag stuff between intelligence agencies, or that it was 484 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:22,839 Speaker 1: attached to the mafia. So this was a guy who 485 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:28,160 Speaker 1: took a stand for things that he felt strongly about 486 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: and was not afraid to make enemies, which seems to 487 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: me that he may have been a divisive figure in 488 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 1: a place like the Vatican, which definitely practices, uh, its 489 00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,440 Speaker 1: own sort of America or code of silence when it 490 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,759 Speaker 1: comes to these crimes. I wanted to add that I 491 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,880 Speaker 1: know it's a bit of a derailment, but it is 492 00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: important because I do think it paints his character as 493 00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,320 Speaker 1: a man unafraid to speak truth to power, which is 494 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:00,840 Speaker 1: an all too rare trait in the modern world, and 495 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: probably historically has been a very rare trait. But that aside, 496 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: those are bona fides to me uh In in regard 497 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,719 Speaker 1: to his character, even though obviously I'm not gonna. I 498 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 1: don't agree with the person. I've never met the person, 499 00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,280 Speaker 1: so I don't want to agree with everything they stand 500 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,400 Speaker 1: for what they say. But I am impressed when someone 501 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 1: does their best to speak truth to power and then 502 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:29,040 Speaker 1: leads us to ask a question. Why did this man 503 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:34,800 Speaker 1: organize this international association? Why did he travel to Mexico City. 504 00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:39,239 Speaker 1: Why did he begin to recruit a cadre that later 505 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:45,160 Speaker 1: became an army of exorcist? What's the big deal? And 506 00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:48,160 Speaker 1: will explore it right after a quick word from our sponsors, 507 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 1: We've returned, and thankfully we have an answer to this question. 508 00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,120 Speaker 1: We don't always have an answer to question, but in 509 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 1: this case we do. The formation in these organizations marked 510 00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 1: a strange trend in the world of possession reports and 511 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 1: exorcism request. As we said, there's still no publicly available 512 00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:17,279 Speaker 1: central database tracking the number of exorcisms performed, but we're 513 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 1: able to make some guesses about general trends based on 514 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 1: reports from these associated organizations, influential priests like a morph 515 00:37:25,680 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 1: themself or Grandma Lazzo, and the reports of exorcists serving 516 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:38,280 Speaker 1: in specific archdiocese. For several decades, in the late nineteenth 517 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,680 Speaker 1: and early twentieth centuries, reports of possession and you know, 518 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: requests for exorcisms had been on the decline. They have 519 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:49,560 Speaker 1: been reducing in number because for years after the Roman 520 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,680 Speaker 1: Catholic Church's Second Vatican Council, or what they called Vatican two, 521 00:37:54,280 --> 00:38:00,560 Speaker 1: that was like everybody at our job uses that joke. Yeah, well, well, 522 00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,799 Speaker 1: it resulted in new church practices, like the official Church practices, 523 00:38:04,920 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 1: that were deemed compatible with the contemporary world. And in 524 00:38:08,760 --> 00:38:11,880 Speaker 1: this case with this Vatican too, it was taboo for 525 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:16,440 Speaker 1: priests to speak of Satan as if a a physical 526 00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 1: or a Satan actually existed, right, So, not Satan as 527 00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 1: a real thing, Satan as a metaphor for the struggle 528 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:30,239 Speaker 1: to grow closer to God. That was nineteen sixty two, yeah, 529 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:36,440 Speaker 1: roughly around there sixty five. However, in the more recent decades. 530 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,239 Speaker 1: As we're getting closer to today, exorcism requests didn't just 531 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,439 Speaker 1: start to grow. They didn't just inch up a little 532 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:47,879 Speaker 1: bit on the scale. They spiked way up, especially here 533 00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,360 Speaker 1: in the United States as well as in the United Kingdom, 534 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:54,759 Speaker 1: and cultural scholars will often argue that this rise is 535 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: coming out of the you know, possibly what you could 536 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,160 Speaker 1: see as the spike would be the premier of The Exorcist, 537 00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:05,080 Speaker 1: which became a huge blockbuster hit seventy three, along with 538 00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,360 Speaker 1: subsequent Satanic panic that occurred here in the United States 539 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: and elsewhere um in the late nineteen eighties and nineties, 540 00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:19,600 Speaker 1: where just interest in the scary parts of possession, interest 541 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,200 Speaker 1: in belief that maybe there's Satanism occurring in the town 542 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: where you live, where groups of people are getting around 543 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 1: to worship Satan and hold rituals and to the true believers, however, 544 00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:35,680 Speaker 1: this is a signal of something much larger at play, 545 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 1: and this rise was such that as of twenty sixteen, 546 00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:44,480 Speaker 1: despite the formation of the International Association of Exorcists, the 547 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:49,520 Speaker 1: Catholic Church was having serious problems fielding all requests for exorcisms, 548 00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:53,920 Speaker 1: as many of the older exorcists were aging out or dying, 549 00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:58,320 Speaker 1: and many of the newer, less experienced priests were frightened 550 00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:02,799 Speaker 1: of enacting the right. And again this is you know, 551 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:09,040 Speaker 1: serious stuff in this world. These these individuals will be 552 00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:13,680 Speaker 1: priest for decades before they tackle their first you know, 553 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:19,160 Speaker 1: real exorcism quote unquote to use the description in How 554 00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,160 Speaker 1: Exorcism Works. Yet again, fantastic article by House of Works. 555 00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,760 Speaker 1: I did not write it, so I feel fine bragging 556 00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,320 Speaker 1: about it. It was written by Julia Layton, who always 557 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 1: does wonderful workforce two of the most prominent exorcists in 558 00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,239 Speaker 1: the United States, fellow in Father Gary Thomas and fellow 559 00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,800 Speaker 1: in Father Vincent Lampert. Note that it's not the church 560 00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:46,920 Speaker 1: demanding more exorcisms, which it can do right. It was 561 00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: on church orders that Mother Teresa was actually exercised before 562 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: her death, but rather the people, the lay folk, and 563 00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:02,280 Speaker 1: Father Lampert's experience. Only one out of three five thousand 564 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:07,799 Speaker 1: or so request is someone afflicted by a full demonic possession. 565 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,440 Speaker 1: He does say, however, that he is conducted countless exorcisms 566 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:18,680 Speaker 1: related to demonic obsession, demonic vexation, and demonic infestation. Yeah. 567 00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: You also you'll also hear demonic oppression amongst those terms. 568 00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 1: Where it's it's slightly different, little different things going on, 569 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:31,240 Speaker 1: but it's not a human being that has a demon 570 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,960 Speaker 1: inside of them that needs to get out, Okay, Right, 571 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,400 Speaker 1: so it's some kind of external a lot of times externally. 572 00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,480 Speaker 1: So so maybe maybe there might be a physical malady 573 00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:44,480 Speaker 1: or being influenced in some way. Sure, right, And uh. 574 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:47,839 Speaker 1: Father Lampord also says that half the calls he receives 575 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:53,880 Speaker 1: are from non Catholics, and this this is interesting. This 576 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 1: is a point that we need to make in defense 577 00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,840 Speaker 1: of the Catholic churches process here the defense of the 578 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:09,840 Speaker 1: church overall, of course, but there's a pretty rigorous system 579 00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:20,000 Speaker 1: built for the analysis of a initial possession report because 580 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:24,000 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church and the exorcists in the church are 581 00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:27,280 Speaker 1: trained to come at this from a very skeptical place. 582 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:33,279 Speaker 1: The first thing they will do is is consult with 583 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:37,320 Speaker 1: everyone else to find any other cause. With people of science, 584 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:42,759 Speaker 1: we're we're talking about, yeah, people's psychologists come out and 585 00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,680 Speaker 1: make sure there's nothing else going on, and see an 586 00:42:45,680 --> 00:42:49,239 Speaker 1: actual physician, make sure there's no other malady. And I 587 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,640 Speaker 1: have to say that that part of this whole process 588 00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,520 Speaker 1: does make me I don't know, I think there might 589 00:42:56,560 --> 00:42:58,239 Speaker 1: be a little more sand to it because of the 590 00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,759 Speaker 1: Church itself as an organization is saying, well, we're going 591 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,959 Speaker 1: to weed out the stuff that isn't actually possession well 592 00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:08,680 Speaker 1: and also to be objective about it. The Catholic Church 593 00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,880 Speaker 1: is such a massive organization that if there were not 594 00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:18,040 Speaker 1: some sort of filtration system, it would just be enundated. 595 00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,960 Speaker 1: These things and it already it already is. Uh. We 596 00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:30,520 Speaker 1: I think about the donations, donations or donations mandatory. What 597 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:36,799 Speaker 1: I'm saying if you charged, if you had mandatory donations 598 00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,640 Speaker 1: for the performing the rights of exorcism and you have 599 00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:47,759 Speaker 1: that many requests coming in, that is diabolical, That it 600 00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,839 Speaker 1: is a terrible, terrible thing. Oh boy, you know what, 601 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 1: Father Gabriel m Or would not approve. He has passed 602 00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:04,279 Speaker 1: from this mortal plane. Uh. The organization, the Association of 603 00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 1: Exorcist rather still exist and the current president would probably 604 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:13,400 Speaker 1: also disagree. Yeah, we have some quotes from him, Father 605 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:18,680 Speaker 1: Francesco Bamonte. He says, quote, when listening to a prayer 606 00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:22,040 Speaker 1: to the Virgin, the demon shows all of his hatred 607 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,520 Speaker 1: and fear toward her. He is forced to confirm that 608 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,839 Speaker 1: Mary is the mother of God and that she intercedes 609 00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:32,360 Speaker 1: for humanity. Satan is not the God of evil against 610 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,879 Speaker 1: the God of good. Rather, he is a being who 611 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,480 Speaker 1: God created as good, and who, with some angels also 612 00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 1: created good by God, became evil because they refused God 613 00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,960 Speaker 1: and his kingdom with their free and final choice. Satan 614 00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,440 Speaker 1: and the spirits at his service, therefore, are not omnipotent beings. 615 00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:55,000 Speaker 1: They cannot perform miracles, They are not omnipresent. They cannot 616 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:59,319 Speaker 1: know our thoughts or the future. And just to know 617 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,280 Speaker 1: that that is a and speaking in two thousand sixteen, 618 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:09,279 Speaker 1: the current president of the International Association of Exorcists truly believes, 619 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:13,239 Speaker 1: at least himself and in the fairly large organization that 620 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:17,400 Speaker 1: he represents and heads, believes that that is true, that 621 00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,680 Speaker 1: that is a problem that humanity must be must continue 622 00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 1: to deal with, and they very much believe. Both Monte 623 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,239 Speaker 1: and More when he was alive, very much believed that 624 00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:36,440 Speaker 1: the that Satan is is a real thing, right that 625 00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:40,600 Speaker 1: a more. Also, in regard to the sexual scandals and 626 00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:44,480 Speaker 1: corruption rock in the Vatican, he believed there was evidence 627 00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:52,960 Speaker 1: of corruption by the Antichrist, so the foretold and much 628 00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:59,360 Speaker 1: feared force of Satan embodied on the planet. Right he 629 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:04,240 Speaker 1: thought I was real, and they're both both of these 630 00:46:05,719 --> 00:46:09,080 Speaker 1: both both of these individuals, and many of the people 631 00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:16,840 Speaker 1: serving in the International Association of Exorcists believe that this 632 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,759 Speaker 1: rise and possession rise and reports of it in an 633 00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:27,880 Speaker 1: increasingly secular world uh come about in reaction to in 634 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:34,399 Speaker 1: relation with the division between spirituality and science. Right as 635 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:40,040 Speaker 1: as as we said in this quote, so are people 636 00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:45,799 Speaker 1: more likely to be possessed to say that? Would us 637 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:51,279 Speaker 1: would require us to say the possession itself is real 638 00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,879 Speaker 1: or something like it? Or are people just searching for 639 00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,719 Speaker 1: some sort of spiritual explanation that they find lacking and 640 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:06,080 Speaker 1: increasingly unspiritual world at the time, certain times and uncertain times, 641 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:11,880 Speaker 1: no kidding man. At the time of this recording, exorcisms 642 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:15,960 Speaker 1: continue to be on the rise. For the more skeptical 643 00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,440 Speaker 1: in the crowd, or those who wouldn't subscribe to the 644 00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:24,799 Speaker 1: idea of Catholicism or the Catholic perspective on exorcism, this 645 00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:29,440 Speaker 1: indicates hysteria or failure to recognize the difference between a 646 00:47:29,520 --> 00:47:34,560 Speaker 1: good popcorn worthy horror flick and the facts. For the 647 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:38,080 Speaker 1: true believers, however, the late Father of More among them, 648 00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,799 Speaker 1: this is indicative of something else, something larger, something very 649 00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:47,600 Speaker 1: dangerous and all too frightening. Lee real it is important 650 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,600 Speaker 1: to say that he is not alone or was not alone, 651 00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:56,280 Speaker 1: nor were his colleagues. Other organizations have formed to combat 652 00:47:56,400 --> 00:47:59,920 Speaker 1: the rising tide of alleged possession and the rising request 653 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:05,200 Speaker 1: for exorcisms. There's the Pope Leo the Twelfth Institute based 654 00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,400 Speaker 1: in Milwaukee, which was founded in to support the quote 655 00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:12,719 Speaker 1: spiritual formation of priests, bring the light of Christ to 656 00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:17,839 Speaker 1: dispel evil. Wow. Yeah, And this thing it started as 657 00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,839 Speaker 1: this just a series of meetings, in formal meetings at 658 00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:24,200 Speaker 1: the request of bishops in the United States. It wanted 659 00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,720 Speaker 1: they wanted training. Really, they needed more people who could 660 00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:31,239 Speaker 1: perform exorcism, so they wanted education and training, and it 661 00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:35,000 Speaker 1: was just it's also response to Pope St. John Paul 662 00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:39,319 Speaker 1: the seconds recommendation that every single diocese should have an 663 00:48:39,360 --> 00:48:43,560 Speaker 1: appointed exorcist, and a spokesperson with the United States Bishop's 664 00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:48,440 Speaker 1: Conference said, although ideally every diocese should have its own exorcist, 665 00:48:48,960 --> 00:48:51,880 Speaker 1: there are no statistics kept by the Church to the 666 00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:55,839 Speaker 1: actual the factual numbers of how many exorcists there actually are. 667 00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:02,319 Speaker 1: They're also class and courses offered by the Church on 668 00:49:02,640 --> 00:49:06,360 Speaker 1: exorcism and the Catholic Church has actively been training experienced 669 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,239 Speaker 1: priest in the nuts and bolts of exorcism how to 670 00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:13,279 Speaker 1: evaluate a case from day one, how to request permission 671 00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:18,040 Speaker 1: and ultimately, if need be, how to act, how to 672 00:49:18,200 --> 00:49:22,560 Speaker 1: how to enact the right Here and on a side 673 00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:27,080 Speaker 1: note for this, we should also acknowledge that while we 674 00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:32,960 Speaker 1: have focused on the Catholic Church's efforts to combat this 675 00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:39,160 Speaker 1: rise in exorcism request, they are not alone in the game. 676 00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:48,480 Speaker 1: Other Christian denominations evangelical as well, have also begun conduct 677 00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:52,440 Speaker 1: combating what they see as a rise in possessions in 678 00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:59,480 Speaker 1: spiritual afflictions from demonic forces. This is a rising tide, 679 00:49:59,760 --> 00:50:03,919 Speaker 1: a cross multiple things. I guess what we're emphasizing here 680 00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:08,319 Speaker 1: is this is not a matter of three elderly or 681 00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:13,520 Speaker 1: six elderly priest high up in the Vatican social hierarchy 682 00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:17,680 Speaker 1: who were able to push through something that they were 683 00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:21,160 Speaker 1: interested in, like that high level executive. It's Sony who 684 00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:27,759 Speaker 1: is able to push through uh psychic experiments. Right, And 685 00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:31,719 Speaker 1: this this doesn't seem to end after some of these 686 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,640 Speaker 1: folks have passed away, And we want to ask you, 687 00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,680 Speaker 1: we want to end more on a question here is 688 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:42,840 Speaker 1: possession or something like it real? And do you think 689 00:50:42,960 --> 00:50:47,000 Speaker 1: that the spiritual interpretations of it are accurate or do 690 00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:51,759 Speaker 1: you think they are a cultural framework on something else? Right? 691 00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,080 Speaker 1: And if so, what and what's the closest you have 692 00:50:55,360 --> 00:51:00,279 Speaker 1: come to experiencing a possession or exorcism? Like have you 693 00:51:00,360 --> 00:51:04,080 Speaker 1: been looking peered through a door and seen one? Have 694 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,719 Speaker 1: you been a part of one? Yeah, we would love 695 00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:13,759 Speaker 1: to hear your stories. And then, perhaps more importantly, I 696 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,759 Speaker 1: won't speak for you, Matt, but from from my m 697 00:51:15,840 --> 00:51:20,120 Speaker 1: more importantly, why is it on the rise? Because that's 698 00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:25,440 Speaker 1: the spookiest thing, Whether or not you believe in this, 699 00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:27,520 Speaker 1: whether or not you are Catholic, whether or not you 700 00:51:27,560 --> 00:51:32,600 Speaker 1: are spiritual in any remote six degrees of Kevin Bacon's 701 00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:37,600 Speaker 1: sense of the term, it is inarguable that these reports 702 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:45,239 Speaker 1: and requests are rising. Speaking in fantastic seguys, it's time 703 00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:51,640 Speaker 1: for our corner. Our first tweet comes from what Up Saucy. 704 00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:56,920 Speaker 1: Saucy says, Wow, I'm still my pants from that gloomy 705 00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:02,799 Speaker 1: Sunday episode. Well done, gentlemen, hashtag Thursday. Well, thank you, 706 00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:08,000 Speaker 1: thank you so much. We all we all really uh 707 00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:10,720 Speaker 1: we already all really put some blood sweat and tears 708 00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:13,960 Speaker 1: and some late nights into that one, and we're so 709 00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:17,520 Speaker 1: glad that someone enjoyed it. Yeah, and you know, people 710 00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:21,879 Speaker 1: have been asking us for an unbleeped version and uncensored version, 711 00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,719 Speaker 1: but I don't think you're gonna get one unless you 712 00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,120 Speaker 1: search for it and you can find it online somewhere 713 00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,160 Speaker 1: through the fringe festival, which you might be able to. 714 00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:32,839 Speaker 1: I you know, I would love to. I would love 715 00:52:32,880 --> 00:52:35,520 Speaker 1: to get some version of that out. We also have 716 00:52:35,800 --> 00:52:40,360 Speaker 1: a When we originally wrote it, we had no idea 717 00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:45,279 Speaker 1: that we would eventually put it on this show, so 718 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,840 Speaker 1: we really leaned into some language there. But yeah, maybe 719 00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:52,279 Speaker 1: we can get an uncensored version out. Will look for it, 720 00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,239 Speaker 1: But we also will have some more things like that 721 00:52:56,880 --> 00:52:59,040 Speaker 1: on the way. So if you enjoy that, stay tuned, 722 00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:01,359 Speaker 1: and if you'd like to hear more of them, right 723 00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:05,840 Speaker 1: to our bosses directly tag how stuff works wherever you 724 00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,160 Speaker 1: find the social media platform, say we want more of this, 725 00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:13,279 Speaker 1: and who knows it might happen. You might make it 726 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,680 Speaker 1: come true. Yeah, you might manifest it. Right. We have 727 00:53:18,080 --> 00:53:23,680 Speaker 1: a another shout out from Kate Landis, who says, conspiracy stuff. 728 00:53:23,719 --> 00:53:25,680 Speaker 1: I once went to the doctor for an abscess. They 729 00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,920 Speaker 1: told me that antibiotics don't do anything for a normal abscess, 730 00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,480 Speaker 1: but that doctors like to prescribe them to make the 731 00:53:31,480 --> 00:53:35,480 Speaker 1: patient feel like something is being done. Then they prescribed 732 00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:45,600 Speaker 1: me antibiotics. I didn't take them. Kate Kite, Kite, Kite, 733 00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:48,239 Speaker 1: I think it's Kite, oh with the with the little 734 00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:52,840 Speaker 1: Australian yell. I heard one of our I was checking 735 00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:54,880 Speaker 1: on some of one of our earlier episodes, and you 736 00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:58,360 Speaker 1: did a great Australian accent. You know, I did the 737 00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:02,360 Speaker 1: same thing, and you were amazing at your Australian accent, 738 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:06,360 Speaker 1: did I? Yeah? Oh really? Yeah? Oh man, Okay, well, 739 00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,840 Speaker 1: I can only do it for maybe four very specific words, 740 00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:12,320 Speaker 1: and unfortunately none of them form a coherent sent it. 741 00:54:13,360 --> 00:54:18,880 Speaker 1: But but to Kate's points, that's that's a very valid concern. 742 00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:22,919 Speaker 1: We know that the overprescription of antibiotics has been a 743 00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:26,040 Speaker 1: literal case of something they don't want you to know. Yeah, 744 00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:28,880 Speaker 1: making all the stuff that those antibiotics are supposed to 745 00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:32,040 Speaker 1: fight even stronger if you don't take the full dose 746 00:54:32,320 --> 00:54:36,560 Speaker 1: in the right amount of time, and uh yeah, it's 747 00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:40,680 Speaker 1: it's really bad. So then everybody else taking antibiotics decreases 748 00:54:40,760 --> 00:54:43,040 Speaker 1: their ability to fight the thing because the thing is 749 00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:46,920 Speaker 1: now stronger. We should maybe we should look into some 750 00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:49,600 Speaker 1: of that, the current state of antibiotics. We did Rise 751 00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:53,160 Speaker 1: of the Superbug, but I don't know if we've looked 752 00:54:53,200 --> 00:54:57,480 Speaker 1: at I don't know if we've looked at it too recently. 753 00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:01,719 Speaker 1: And unfortunately the situation is changing only getting worse. Man, 754 00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:06,080 Speaker 1: I pulled up Pandemic to again, that online game, and 755 00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,279 Speaker 1: I started to play it, and it just got too 756 00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:13,200 Speaker 1: depressing because it can happen. Yeah, so that's a little 757 00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:15,600 Speaker 1: too real for for my taste. Well, thank you for 758 00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:19,480 Speaker 1: writing to us um Our. Last shoutout for the day 759 00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:23,280 Speaker 1: comes from Sunshine Kid twenty one and Sunshine Kid twenty 760 00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:27,080 Speaker 1: one says, could you guys do a podcast about root canals? 761 00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:29,960 Speaker 1: I heard it was a scam and it causes health problems, 762 00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:33,839 Speaker 1: et cetera. Thanks. I love the podcasts root canals as 763 00:55:33,840 --> 00:55:40,160 Speaker 1: a conspiracy. That's interesting. I had heard that the metal 764 00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:44,560 Speaker 1: filling that is used the amalgam that is you is 765 00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:50,120 Speaker 1: that what is amalgam that is used in cavities can 766 00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:55,400 Speaker 1: have dangerous health effects potentially root canals I'm not too 767 00:55:55,520 --> 00:56:00,239 Speaker 1: aware of, but I will see it's honestly surprising that 768 00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:05,160 Speaker 1: dentistry uses some of the same old techniques and has 769 00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,759 Speaker 1: for quite a while, for decades um. But it would 770 00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:13,279 Speaker 1: be interesting to look into. Oh do you see that. 771 00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:15,880 Speaker 1: It's Josh and Chuck. They're waving at us there like 772 00:56:15,920 --> 00:56:18,160 Speaker 1: get out of the studio. Oh I thought that was 773 00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:20,360 Speaker 1: just a hello wave. Okay, well I've just been waving 774 00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:23,239 Speaker 1: to them for like five minutes, so sorry, Maybe that's 775 00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,799 Speaker 1: all they're doing. Nope, Nope, I'm pretty sure I know 776 00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:29,200 Speaker 1: what that sign you're holding up a sign it says 777 00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:35,800 Speaker 1: this is the end of yours, and they are correct. However, 778 00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:38,080 Speaker 1: it is not the end of the show. Matt, Paul, 779 00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:41,400 Speaker 1: Noel and I will be back very soon. We hope 780 00:56:41,440 --> 00:56:43,880 Speaker 1: that you will join us as well. In the meantime, 781 00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:46,560 Speaker 1: you can find us on Instagram, Twitter, You can find 782 00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:53,200 Speaker 1: us on Facebook. Facebook, and that's stuff they don't want 783 00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:55,520 Speaker 1: you to know. Dot Com where you find every episode 784 00:56:55,560 --> 00:56:58,320 Speaker 1: we've ever produced, and some videos and some other stuff. 785 00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:00,840 Speaker 1: Pictures of Ben. If you want to look at pictures 786 00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:02,239 Speaker 1: of Ben, go to stuff they don't want you to 787 00:57:02,280 --> 00:57:05,960 Speaker 1: know dot Com. You really sold me out on that one. 788 00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,279 Speaker 1: The pictures of me too, and know a lot, and 789 00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,720 Speaker 1: you can find various different stories up for one reason 790 00:57:12,840 --> 00:57:16,840 Speaker 1: or another might not make it on the show. Yet. Hey, 791 00:57:16,880 --> 00:57:19,720 Speaker 1: are you listening to Ridiculous History yet? You should be. 792 00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:23,800 Speaker 1: It's the show that our friends Ben and Noel are hosting. 793 00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:26,840 Speaker 1: It is really fun and you guys are doing some 794 00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:30,640 Speaker 1: really fun stuff with guests on your show. Uh, that 795 00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:33,320 Speaker 1: you've discussed with me about and then I've been listening 796 00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,280 Speaker 1: to it as a fan because it's really really fun. 797 00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:40,240 Speaker 1: Specifically with our complaint department here on this show, Mr 798 00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:43,840 Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland, Oh yeah, who is available for any complaints 799 00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:46,240 Speaker 1: of concerns twenty four hours a day, seven days a week, 800 00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:49,479 Speaker 1: Jonathan dot Strickland at how stuff works dot com. Uh. 801 00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:53,160 Speaker 1: And you know we value the complaints, keep us honest. 802 00:57:53,240 --> 00:57:55,040 Speaker 1: Make sure you send them to the right address so 803 00:57:55,120 --> 00:57:58,880 Speaker 1: we can treat them with the import they deserve. You 804 00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:04,200 Speaker 1: might be asking why why my longtime colleague Matt is 805 00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:06,880 Speaker 1: not on the show of Ridiculous History. There is a reason. 806 00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:09,680 Speaker 1: It turns out that Matt is one of the masterminds 807 00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:14,400 Speaker 1: behind one of the most popular shows on Apple Podcast 808 00:58:14,520 --> 00:58:17,959 Speaker 1: as we speak, Atlanta Monster. If you like this show, 809 00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:23,240 Speaker 1: you will love Atlanta Monster. Yeah, subscribe today, new episodes 810 00:58:23,280 --> 00:58:28,400 Speaker 1: every Friday. We're looking into the missing and murdered children 811 00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:33,360 Speaker 1: cases from eighty one in Atlanta, so you know, start 812 00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:36,800 Speaker 1: listening if you're not already. And with this very long goodbye, 813 00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:40,120 Speaker 1: we will end with a message for everyone who doesn't 814 00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:45,800 Speaker 1: care for social media and all that hullabalo and ephemeral 815 00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:50,040 Speaker 1: liking and sharing or whatever emojiing people are doing. Now 816 00:58:50,280 --> 00:58:53,920 Speaker 1: you can write to us with an idea or topic directly. 817 00:58:54,000 --> 00:59:16,840 Speaker 1: We are conspiracy at how stuff works dot com.