Speaker 1: At any point in the past twenty five years of
Speaker 1: Staples history, I could have said I want to start
Speaker 1: my own sneaker brand, right, I could have done that,
Speaker 1: but I was like, you know what, I've seen a
Speaker 1: lot of my friends try to start sneaker brands and
Speaker 1: it's challenging, and so why should I start a sneaker
Speaker 1: brand when I can call somebody at like Nike or
Speaker 1: New Balance or Timberland and be like, like, am I
Speaker 1: really gonna make a boot better than Timberland? Like maybe
Speaker 1: in twenty years I will, you know, So like, how
Speaker 1: about I just work with Timberland and we sort of
Speaker 1: like complement each other on what we like to do.
Speaker 1: Knows We'll look you see afro Tech, Black Tech, Green
Speaker 1: Money and welcome to the episode. And so check it
Speaker 1: out just a couple of weeks ago, maybe like two
Speaker 1: or three weeks ago Afro Tech World. We welcome Jeff
Speaker 1: Staple to this state. Jeff is a creative visionary with
Speaker 1: work encompassing graphic design, fashion design, fullware design, and brand marketing.
Speaker 1: He's a founder of the read Our Department, which is
Speaker 1: also known as Staples Design, and he's worked on career
Speaker 1: it IF projects ranging startup brands to fortune companies. He
Speaker 1: found a Staple in New York based pioneering streetwear brand
Speaker 1: with a now infamous pigeon logo. And Jeff Stable is
Speaker 1: talking to our Jeff Jeff Nelson, who is co founder
Speaker 1: and CTO ad blvity at afro tech World. Hey, what's
Speaker 1: up Afro tech World. This is Jeff Nelson. I am
Speaker 1: the co founder and chief technology officer of Bravity, Inc.
Speaker 1: I'm here with a very special guest, Jeff Staple. I
Speaker 1: gotta say I like the name, but I'm here and
Speaker 1: honored to have this conversation with you. With you, uh,
Speaker 1: many people in our audience I'm sure are familiar with you.
Speaker 1: You are one of the o G visionaries. Uh and
Speaker 1: so many, so many different industries, so streetwear, fashion, sneakers,
Speaker 1: design in general. Um So, it's cool to have this
Speaker 1: conversation with you. Just learn about how you know your
Speaker 1: passionate and how you develop your brands, but also how
Speaker 1: those brands as are intersecting with technology as we look
Speaker 1: forward to the future and talking about Web three and
Speaker 1: the metaverse and things like that. Um So, so my
Speaker 1: first question is, you know, I want to take a
Speaker 1: trip down memory lane. So in nineteen seven, you you
Speaker 1: started Staple Design. UM. When I hear I don't know
Speaker 1: about you, I'm like, oh, ninety seven, that wasn't that
Speaker 1: long ago. But when you do the math, that was
Speaker 1: twenty five years ago, right. So you built this brand
Speaker 1: that has been relevant for literally decades, and it's transcended
Speaker 1: so many different things, right that that I just mentioned,
Speaker 1: you know, fashion, design, etcetera, etcetera. Can you talk about
Speaker 1: when it clicked for you incorporating technology into these brands
Speaker 1: and all that you do know sort of what was
Speaker 1: the genesis of that idea and how how did that
Speaker 1: come to fruition? UM. Well, first of all, Jeff, thanks
Speaker 1: for having me on and shout out to AFRO Tech
Speaker 1: and everyone out there watching. UM. Definitely honored to be
Speaker 1: part of this talk and share some ideas. UM. And
Speaker 1: I guess we must be of similar generation, Jeff, because
Speaker 1: I'm the same Like when I hear that song Till Infinity,
Speaker 1: that doesn't feel that long ago to be. But ninety
Speaker 1: three is like most of my employees weren't even alive yet,
Speaker 1: you know, I have to like remember that. UM. So
Speaker 1: it is it is crazy how time flies, UM, And
Speaker 1: it's definitely a blessing that what I've been able to
Speaker 1: create has been able to transcend, you know, decades and generations.
Speaker 1: I see fathers and their kids both rocking Staple and
Speaker 1: you know, both rocking stuff that I've done. So it's
Speaker 1: really cool. Um. Well, to answer your question about like
Speaker 1: technology and how that plays into fashion and are this
Speaker 1: this occurred for me really really early on? Man? I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, I feel like half of this conversation is
Speaker 1: going to be about how how I'm gonna date myself.
Speaker 1: But I remember when we first started marketing, right, like
Speaker 1: the idea of like going viral or marketing meant, uh,
Speaker 1: you would make a postcard at like they had these
Speaker 1: companies called like One Postcard, which was honestly like a
Speaker 1: technological wonder because before that, making flyers posters of postcards
Speaker 1: was like a very gated process, like you really needed
Speaker 1: to know offset printers and stuff like that. Then these
Speaker 1: companies came out with this concept called called gang run printing,
Speaker 1: which I know sounds really like, you know, mischievous, but
Speaker 1: it's not gang run printing. Are these companies that basically said, hey,
Speaker 1: there's all these people throwing parties and they need flyers
Speaker 1: and they need invites, and all these DJs want to
Speaker 1: promote their night, why don't instead of working with them individually,
Speaker 1: why don't we call them all in, like fifty of
Speaker 1: them and basically put all their flyers on one big
Speaker 1: printer and then printed all at once and slice them
Speaker 1: up and give it to each person. But everyone saves money, right,
Speaker 1: So it's like this sort of like really communal thing.
Speaker 1: And I remember when I would get postcards made and
Speaker 1: I would drop them off at like record shops and
Speaker 1: cafes and bars. The my social media marketing butget at
Speaker 1: the time was basically how many inches of postcards I
Speaker 1: would leave at each establishment. So if I thought this
Speaker 1: place was like popping, I'd be like, they get two inches,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna give them a two inches that back, you know.
Speaker 1: But it's like if this place wasn't that popping, they
Speaker 1: get a quarter inch, you know what I mean. That
Speaker 1: was marketing back then, And even though it sounds really naive,
Speaker 1: but like I was using technology at the time of
Speaker 1: what I had, because before that it was literally hand
Speaker 1: to mouth, like you had to shake someone's hand and
Speaker 1: tell them about your brand. It was like word of
Speaker 1: mouth marketing. So this idea of using like postcards something
Speaker 1: as dumb as that. You know, Um, I learned really
Speaker 1: early that, like I have to go beyond myself and
Speaker 1: my ability to shake people's hands and kind of spread
Speaker 1: the knowledge as quickly as I possibly could. Obviously, print
Speaker 1: advertising was something that was happening back then, you know,
Speaker 1: magazines and stuff. But the moment the digital revolution started
Speaker 1: to happen, where instead of putting an ad in a
Speaker 1: magazine and sort of crossing your fingers and being like,
Speaker 1: I hope hundreds of people see this, but I actually
Speaker 1: have no validation or idea if that's actually happening. You know, once,
Speaker 1: once the analytics and the tracking of social media and
Speaker 1: you know, just web one really like website started to
Speaker 1: come I don't know if you remember Google came out
Speaker 1: with like blog Spot, and like blog Spot pages were
Speaker 1: like the first blog, right, and you could pick your
Speaker 1: template and stuff like that. And I remember they added
Speaker 1: this feature where you can add a little ticker to
Speaker 1: the side of your website to show how many people
Speaker 1: had visited your website. And that was like, you know,
Speaker 1: this is pre likes, pre retweets or anything, but it's
Speaker 1: like every day I would wake up and be like holy,
Speaker 1: like twelve people came over the over the course of
Speaker 1: last vague and visited, you know, and you would just
Speaker 1: wait to see that thing. But like that initial tracking
Speaker 1: of idea was so cool. Um. And I just think
Speaker 1: that I've always tried to stay um somewhat. I want
Speaker 1: to say abreast of the technology. I don't want to
Speaker 1: call myself a technological innovator. Um. I. I do wait
Speaker 1: to see if when a technology comes out, if it
Speaker 1: has stickiness before I invest my time. You know. One
Speaker 1: thing that I want to emphasize is that time is
Speaker 1: the most valuable asset that any of us have. So
Speaker 1: for me to go in and be like, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna spend all of my money, time, energy and
Speaker 1: effort on video like that would have sucked. Like if
Speaker 1: I did that, you know, so like no, no disrespect
Speaker 1: the video, But like you gotta pick and choose your
Speaker 1: battles to see like where you're gonna go, Like, frankly,
Speaker 1: I'm not really on TikTok, nor is my brand. That
Speaker 1: might be a big mistake for my brand, you know,
Speaker 1: but we've chosen to be like no, let's go, let's
Speaker 1: go with Instagram. Um And now, as you mentioned, it
Speaker 1: alluded to Web three. I mean, I'm I'm all in
Speaker 1: on Web three, and I'm happy I am because I
Speaker 1: think if I had spent a lot of time and
Speaker 1: energy on TikTok, you know, maybe I might have looked
Speaker 1: at Web three and been like, I don't have time
Speaker 1: for another thing. You know, I can't go into that.
Speaker 1: So that's sort of like my my foreign into technology.
Speaker 1: That's so cool and and it's really interesting. I mean,
Speaker 1: you tell the story about the postcards and how you
Speaker 1: know back then we were using tech, even you know
Speaker 1: in the nineties when we don't think of those things
Speaker 1: as tech. But I think what it speaks to is
Speaker 1: just your ability to be, you know, relatively speaking, ahead
Speaker 1: of the curve, even if just a step ahead, right, um,
Speaker 1: And that's super super important, and so forwards I call
Speaker 1: it scrappy, you know, the hustler mentality, right, which which
Speaker 1: is so important. And so you made this bet on
Speaker 1: Web three and crypto. You're doing a lot of things
Speaker 1: in that space. I am curious for someone with your
Speaker 1: back background and you know, being a creative um, especially
Speaker 1: being a physical creator. Now you're you're and I don't
Speaker 1: want to say a transitioning because I don't think you're
Speaker 1: leaving that part of your your ethos behind, but you're
Speaker 1: augmenting and complementing that with being a digital creator. So
Speaker 1: can you talk a little bit about that transition, what's
Speaker 1: different about creating in the digital space, but also what's
Speaker 1: similar to your previous work. I mean, I got I
Speaker 1: got a first preface this by saying, my foray into
Speaker 1: web three is literally, as of today months old, like
Speaker 1: it is, it's brand spanking news, so it's completely fresh,
Speaker 1: it's completely it's changing all the time. I'm learning every
Speaker 1: single day. People think I'm an expert. I'm not. Nobody
Speaker 1: is an expert because it's constantly changing, you know. Um
Speaker 1: but I did dabble into uh the web three n
Speaker 1: f T space last year, um by through the means
Speaker 1: of collaboration, you know. And and if you look at
Speaker 1: the course of my career, uh, some people say that
Speaker 1: I'm like the King of collaborations. But it's not because
Speaker 1: I was trying to own collaborations as a concept. What
Speaker 1: I was always trying to do was again not go
Speaker 1: all in on something. So for example, when you know
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a big sneaker head, I really love sneakers,
Speaker 1: at any point in the past twenty five years of
Speaker 1: stables history, I could have said, I want to start
Speaker 1: my own sneaker brand, right, I could have done that,
Speaker 1: but I was like, you know what, I've seen a
Speaker 1: lot of my friends try to start sneaker brands and
Speaker 1: it's challenging, and so why should I start a sneaker
Speaker 1: brand when I can call somebody at like Nike or
Speaker 1: New Balance or Timberland and be like, like, am I
Speaker 1: really gonna make a boot better than Timberland? Like maybe
Speaker 1: in twenty years I will, you know, So like, how
Speaker 1: about I just work with Timberland and we sort of
Speaker 1: like complement each other on what we like to do.
Speaker 1: So when it when it came time to the n
Speaker 1: f T Crypto Web three space, I said, instead of
Speaker 1: me just going full boat all in on crypto and
Speaker 1: n f T, let me learn from people who have
Speaker 1: been in it slightly longer um And so my my
Speaker 1: first collaboration was the company called Zora z O r A,
Speaker 1: which I suggest all of you check out there like
Speaker 1: the new Marketplace. Secondly, then I collaborated with Artifact r
Speaker 1: T f k T, which is a you know, they're
Speaker 1: like the new digital web three brand if you will,
Speaker 1: they actually just got acquired by Nike UM and then
Speaker 1: the third one was Gary baynerchuk In and his b
Speaker 1: Friends program. So my first three steps into the space
Speaker 1: were with handheld with an expert or an expert at
Speaker 1: the time, and that allowed me to get a taste
Speaker 1: of it and again justify to myself whether this is
Speaker 1: gonna be something that I really want to invest a
Speaker 1: lot of time, energy and effort into. Obviously I did,
Speaker 1: And then so we launched Staple Versus just a couple
Speaker 1: of months ago UM and it's been a game changer.
Speaker 1: So to answer your question, what do I love about
Speaker 1: working in this space, there's two main things. Number one
Speaker 1: is that coming from someone who has made physical goods
Speaker 1: all their life, a lot of it overseas, you know,
Speaker 1: there are a ton of logistical hurdles that are in
Speaker 1: the creator's way in terms of getting something physically made,
Speaker 1: whether it's supply chain, minimum, motor quantities, middlemen, salesman, shipping, tariffs, customs,
Speaker 1: all of this BS is essentially set up so that
Speaker 1: as many people as possible can make their slice of
Speaker 1: the pie, you know, And and it's it's the most
Speaker 1: unstreamlined thing ever and the other thing is because of that,
Speaker 1: every time there's a hurdle, you are sacrificing a concept
Speaker 1: or an idea. You're like, oh, was it gonna be
Speaker 1: eight weeks to make that thing that I wanted? I
Speaker 1: forget that thing. Let's just get it done, you know.
Speaker 1: And so that's a that's a creative sacrifice that you're making,
Speaker 1: you know, in in this world, in the digital world,
Speaker 1: anything I dream, if it can be coded, it happens.
Speaker 1: It's like it's like me, my, It's like my brain
Speaker 1: a coder consumer. That's it. There's like no nothing else,
Speaker 1: you know, And so that's really beautiful. Uh. And then
Speaker 1: the second thing that I really love about this is
Speaker 1: obviously ownership of your I P. You know, traditionally, if
Speaker 1: you think about being a fashion brand or a footwear brand,
Speaker 1: the success of your of your brand is a lot
Speaker 1: of times be holding on a retail store or like
Speaker 1: a sneaker store. You know, like if you have a
Speaker 1: sneaker brand, if you're not doing business with a foot locker,
Speaker 1: you're probably not really doing business, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It's very very difficult. Same with like department stores, or
Speaker 1: if you're an artist, if you're not going to be
Speaker 1: signed by a gallery or like a museum. It's very
Speaker 1: hard for you to break through, you know. And think
Speaker 1: about it. Now, if you sell your work to a
Speaker 1: gallery ist, right you you get money for that transaction.
Speaker 1: Now that galleries is going to sell it to another collector, you, now,
Speaker 1: as a traditional artist or painter, does not get any
Speaker 1: more money. And then when that guy now sells it
Speaker 1: to another collector, use the chain of of revenue stream
Speaker 1: stops for you. Right in in the n f T world,
Speaker 1: because of the blockchain and smart contracts, I can put
Speaker 1: into my smart contract that I, the creator of this
Speaker 1: work forever in perpetuity, wants of of of royalty on
Speaker 1: this I can make up the percentage. And now every
Speaker 1: time that product or n f T or whatever is flipped,
Speaker 1: you just keep making perpetual royalties. And that's a game changer.
Speaker 1: And it's not even I mean, yes, it's a financial
Speaker 1: game changer, but it's a game changer because it's almost
Speaker 1: like it's almost like buying a car and having fuel
Speaker 1: in your car every day. It's like it's fuel for creativity.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't have to worry about the next
Speaker 1: thing because my my babies are out there making money
Speaker 1: for me, you know. So that's the beautiful thing about
Speaker 1: the space. And I'm glad that you mentioned that because
Speaker 1: we've been talking a lot um this year in our
Speaker 1: afro Tech series we've had, you know, we had afro
Speaker 1: Tech Miami in February. We talked a lot about n
Speaker 1: f t s and crypto and um, n f t
Speaker 1: s are are you know this new concept? And not
Speaker 1: not everybody gets it? Some people still And immediately myself,
Speaker 1: before I really dig into the space, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: these are just JPEGs, right, But what you just mentioned
Speaker 1: that smart contract, there's so much power in that where
Speaker 1: you can if it can be coded right, and you
Speaker 1: talk about creators in the ability to literally program in
Speaker 1: royalties right where any time of transaction happens boom boom boom.
Speaker 1: It's all backed by crypto, it's all backed by the
Speaker 1: blockchain and it just happens right. That gives you that
Speaker 1: as an artist, that gives you so much leverage. So so,
Speaker 1: you know, thanks for really demystifying that and putting it
Speaker 1: in layman's terms. So I'll give you another analogy about
Speaker 1: people because I have a lot of like friendly debates
Speaker 1: have a lot of friendly debates with with friends who
Speaker 1: are like, you know, you're just selling JPEG's. It's it's worthless,
Speaker 1: you know. And I'm like, I'm like, remember the day
Speaker 1: when I got a blue check on Instagram? How salty
Speaker 1: you were? And they're like, yeah, I was like you
Speaker 1: actually told me that day you would pay money for
Speaker 1: a blue check. And I'm sure we all know people
Speaker 1: that would pay fifty fifty five, probably five thousand dollars
Speaker 1: for a blue check. So wait, you're gonna pay five
Speaker 1: thousand dollars for a jpeg that's this big? What does
Speaker 1: that mean? It's it's not because of the artwork of
Speaker 1: the blue check. It's because of the It's because of
Speaker 1: the value that it holds when it sits on your telephone.
Speaker 1: That's that's the only place that sits, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. So when when I tell people that, they're
Speaker 1: like fine, I kind of understand. Yeah, It's like it's
Speaker 1: the connection that it has, you know. Um, So we
Speaker 1: are already as humans trading on a on a on
Speaker 1: a digital only landscape, you know, like, hey, if you
Speaker 1: if you go out and you buy an incredible piece
Speaker 1: of furniture like a Herman Miller chair or sofa. Right, great,
Speaker 1: congrats you and six of your closest friends and family
Speaker 1: have seen that chair. Every other person that you're gonna
Speaker 1: show that chair too, you're probably showing it to them
Speaker 1: on this device that like, the people they're gonna see
Speaker 1: see it through this device. So you're already trading equity
Speaker 1: and value and cloud on the mobile device digitally, and
Speaker 1: n f T s are just sort of like taking
Speaker 1: it all the way there where it's like, let's just
Speaker 1: forget the physical, like and that's that's the scary part
Speaker 1: is because people are like, I don't want to forget
Speaker 1: the physical. It makes me feel good, you know. But
Speaker 1: if you think about it, as you said, it's less
Speaker 1: about an abandoned abandonment of the physical, it's just an
Speaker 1: added extension of it, then I think it makes people
Speaker 1: feel more comfortable. That's a perfect analogy there. Um, And and
Speaker 1: and so there must be something about Jeff's right, because
Speaker 1: I can can relate to this aspect of your story.
Speaker 1: Is this inability to be satisfied, will just do and
Speaker 1: one thing right? So you know, we we talked about, um,
Speaker 1: you know, since the nineties, how you've been You've had
Speaker 1: your hands in so many different places, right, You're your
Speaker 1: certified sneaker head, streetwear, fashion design, You've got retail stores,
Speaker 1: all these different things. Now in the web three space
Speaker 1: we talked about, you know, and alluded to the n
Speaker 1: f T s. But you've got the Staple Verse, right,
Speaker 1: So we're we're here in Afrotech world, in the Afrotech metaverse.
Speaker 1: H You've got the Staple Verse. Tell me what is
Speaker 1: the Staple Verse, why it's cool, and why you decided
Speaker 1: to create that. The Staple Verse is my own personal
Speaker 1: Marvel cinematic universe, you know. So, like I don't know
Speaker 1: if if there's any Marvel fans out there, but like
Speaker 1: I'm a huge Marvel fan, and you know, one of
Speaker 1: the most impressive things is like the fact that you know,
Speaker 1: this this saga has gone on for like twenty five
Speaker 1: movies deep now even more decades long. You know, but
Speaker 1: if you think about the genius of like, you know,
Speaker 1: the lay one of the latest Marvel movies that came
Speaker 1: out is Changshi in the Ten Rings, Right, Those Ten
Speaker 1: Rings appeared in Iron Man one like over a decade ago,
Speaker 1: So you know, the producers just created this entire universe
Speaker 1: and they're just taking us along for the ride on
Speaker 1: this incredible journey. And so what I'm doing now with
Speaker 1: Staple Verse is very similar. I get to create. Sure,
Speaker 1: I love making clothes, I love making shoes, I love
Speaker 1: retail all that stuff. But now I get to create
Speaker 1: storytelling lore characters. I get to take them on different
Speaker 1: journeys all over the world. I even get to take
Speaker 1: them outside of planet Earth if I wanted to, Like,
Speaker 1: I could go to another another planet. Right, It's literally
Speaker 1: only limited by my imagination. But with that being said,
Speaker 1: we are starting chapter one of Staple Verse right here
Speaker 1: in New York City, where I came from. So I'm
Speaker 1: sort of mirroring my journey uh in the physical world
Speaker 1: through the n f T world so that people get
Speaker 1: a really good understanding of my roots and my history.
Speaker 1: So it's interesting, like our our mascot is a pigeon,
Speaker 1: and everyone really knows our brand because of the pigeon logo.
Speaker 1: So when there was news that we were coming out
Speaker 1: with this n f T project, they assumed it was
Speaker 1: gonna be like ten thousand pigeon profile pictures, right yeah,
Speaker 1: And I you know what, I probably would have made
Speaker 1: decent money if I did that. It probably would have
Speaker 1: been a fine project, but I sort of zigged when
Speaker 1: everyone thought I was gonna zag, and what we did
Speaker 1: was re released ten thousand feed items. Okay, so these
Speaker 1: feed items are basically, in my mind, foods that you
Speaker 1: would see a New York City pigeon eating. And they're real,
Speaker 1: like New York City strange things like you. We've got
Speaker 1: like obviously like pizzas and bagels and coffee beans and
Speaker 1: tea bags, but we also got weird things like a syringe,
Speaker 1: a subway token, like a used condom, a cockroach. There's
Speaker 1: just like real griming New York City stuff, right. And
Speaker 1: the idea is that you buy these feed and f
Speaker 1: t s and then later on and actually later on
Speaker 1: I'm talking about like in about two weeks, you would
Speaker 1: take that feed and you have to now toss it
Speaker 1: to try to catch a pigeon, similar to if you're
Speaker 1: sitting in Central Park and you're trying to get pigeons,
Speaker 1: you have to like toss them food, right. But sometimes
Speaker 1: when you toss food and try to get a pigeon,
Speaker 1: you get shot on by a pigeon also, right, So
Speaker 1: we have this whole gamification where like you buy feed,
Speaker 1: you now have to throw your feet out try to
Speaker 1: catch a pigeon, but you might catch a pigeon ship
Speaker 1: and f t also okay, And because now we have
Speaker 1: these three factions, we have the people who will get pigeons,
Speaker 1: the people who will get pooped, and the people who
Speaker 1: will not throw out their feet they want to keep
Speaker 1: their feed. There's this like interaction gamification that's happening where
Speaker 1: like the three crews are sort of like battling with
Speaker 1: each other. And this goes back to my early days
Speaker 1: of like DJ battles and B boy battles. It's just like,
Speaker 1: I love these crews at organically formed uh and it
Speaker 1: just friendly competition. It just makes all you know, everyone
Speaker 1: like work harder and be more um invested in what
Speaker 1: they're trying to do. You know, it's amazing that these
Speaker 1: concepts that we do see in the physical world, right um,
Speaker 1: how they translate into these digital spaces and what you're
Speaker 1: talking about. It is really this cross section of so
Speaker 1: many different things gamification, art, right, what's going on a
Speaker 1: physical thing that happens um in New York City with
Speaker 1: with pigeons, right Um. It's really really cool And I'm
Speaker 1: curious when you first heard about this idea of a
Speaker 1: metaverse and and these digital universes and digital spaces, um.
Speaker 1: You know, so to some extent it probably made sense
Speaker 1: that this could be interesting. But did it always make
Speaker 1: sense that you could build a profitable, profitable business on
Speaker 1: this model in this space, because that's something that was
Speaker 1: always apparent to you? And if if so, you know,
Speaker 1: then are you just the genus? Or if not, like,
Speaker 1: what was what was the point in time when that
Speaker 1: really did click for you? You know? I like to
Speaker 1: consider myself like half businessman half artist. I think the
Speaker 1: artist side of me says, like, I don't go into
Speaker 1: a new venture because of the money, right, Like a
Speaker 1: businessman or a businesswoman says, I'm gonna venture into this
Speaker 1: new thing, and the r O I has to be
Speaker 1: there the money I put in, I have to get
Speaker 1: it back ten x or I'm not even gonna do it. Right.
Speaker 1: The artist is different because the artists will be like,
Speaker 1: I mean, a smart artist will say, listen, I don't
Speaker 1: want to lose my pants on this deal, right, But
Speaker 1: I don't mind if I don't make money or don't
Speaker 1: make a lot of money, as long as I don't
Speaker 1: go bankrupt doing this. But it fulfills me creatively. I'm
Speaker 1: down to explore it. And so when it comes to
Speaker 1: this space, I didn't do it for the money. I
Speaker 1: knew that there was a possibility of making money, but
Speaker 1: if if I didn't have the ability to express my
Speaker 1: artistic needs through this medium, I wouldn't have touched it,
Speaker 1: you know, like, like why wouldn't I open? Like, you
Speaker 1: know what, if you want to make money in New
Speaker 1: York City, you know what you do? You buy a
Speaker 1: parking garage. Parking parking is mad expensive in New York City.
Speaker 1: So if I wanted to make easy money, I would
Speaker 1: get a parking lot. But that's not creatively fulfilling for me,
Speaker 1: you know, so I'm not going to go there. Um.
Speaker 1: This n f T space was very creatively fulfilling for
Speaker 1: me because, as I said, I get to create anything
Speaker 1: that I want to do. It definitely was helpful that
Speaker 1: there was this potential of a golden pot at the
Speaker 1: end of this rainbow, but I would have also been
Speaker 1: happy if there wasn't and I just got to create
Speaker 1: put stuff out there. Um. The fans that I already
Speaker 1: have have a new way of interacting with my brand. Um,
Speaker 1: and it's really dope. I gotta say, like the fan
Speaker 1: base in the n f T space is very different
Speaker 1: than Web two, Instagram, Twitter. It's like there they speak
Speaker 1: a whole different way. They're very very supportive, you know
Speaker 1: how On Twitter and Instagram, it's like there's just you
Speaker 1: get into these rabbit holes of like you know, just
Speaker 1: hate and criticism and like depression and stuff. But like
Speaker 1: it is so positive right now in the n f
Speaker 1: T space. And I'm sure it'll regulate, you know, in
Speaker 1: a bit, but right now everyone is really gung ho.
Speaker 1: You've got these sayings that are like l f G,
Speaker 1: like let's f and go, and like why me is
Speaker 1: like we're all gonna make it, you know, Like all
Speaker 1: of these things are like really dope. Um, and I
Speaker 1: love the positive. I was actually really surprised. Two things
Speaker 1: surprised me about the space. One is how inspired I
Speaker 1: was by how positive the community was. And number two, frankly,
Speaker 1: like a year ago, you know, I collect vinyl records,
Speaker 1: comic books, sneakers, right, Um, I never thought that I
Speaker 1: would be into collecting, as you said, j pegs in
Speaker 1: a folder. Right. That didn't seem like something interesting to me,
Speaker 1: But it happened about a month ago where I looked
Speaker 1: at my like crypto n FT wallet and I started
Speaker 1: doing that thing that collectors do, like I started moving
Speaker 1: stuff around. I started saying, you know what, I need
Speaker 1: one more to just fill out that series that I'm
Speaker 1: trying to fill out. You know. It's wine collectors do it.
Speaker 1: Watch collectors do it, you know, like art collectors do.
Speaker 1: And I started doing it with j pegs on my
Speaker 1: computer and I checked myself because I was like, Wow,
Speaker 1: it's happening. This is happening to me. And I have
Speaker 1: a great into hernal radar temperature check on myself that
Speaker 1: if I'm feeling something, there's a damn good chance that
Speaker 1: hundreds of other people are feeling the same thing. So
Speaker 1: it becomes like a real thing for me, you know.
Speaker 1: And that just happened like a month ago. So I'm
Speaker 1: curious as as an avid collector of many things, you know,
Speaker 1: both in the physical world. Right, So sneakers, right, I'm
Speaker 1: like a baby sneaker head. I like bought. Um. I
Speaker 1: went from having, you know, up until last year, like
Speaker 1: two pairs of shoes ever to now I have like
Speaker 1: you know, maybe like dirty pairs, right, something really really
Speaker 1: trying to get into it. So UM, you know, I'm
Speaker 1: I'm curious. I'm curious for you. In the physical world,
Speaker 1: like when you're collecting things, what is the thought process,
Speaker 1: like what attracts you to something that you say, Hey,
Speaker 1: this is valuable or this is something that I went
Speaker 1: in my collection And how is that similar or different
Speaker 1: uh than that thought process in the in the physical
Speaker 1: in the digital space. Uh, It's it's the same, first
Speaker 1: of all. But I love this question because, um, there's
Speaker 1: there's to me, there's a fine line between a collector
Speaker 1: and a curator. Okay. A collector is a speculator. They
Speaker 1: go out and say, what is the inherent upside value
Speaker 1: of this investment that I'm about to make. It's an asset, right,
Speaker 1: It's an asset investment. Right. A curator says, I don't
Speaker 1: care what the resell value this is gonna be. I
Speaker 1: like it. It speaks to me. I f with this, right.
Speaker 1: And even if someone says, yo, that's whack, it's already
Speaker 1: like below retail or whatever, like, I don't care. I
Speaker 1: like it. You know, I remember when I was young,
Speaker 1: there used to be these stores in in in the
Speaker 1: Northeast called like V I M and Dr J's right,
Speaker 1: and models. These are like not cool sneaker stories, They're
Speaker 1: basically like sporting good stories. And I remember I would
Speaker 1: like look in the bargain bins and in the seventy
Speaker 1: off racks and I would try to find a gem,
Speaker 1: and my goal would be that, Like I found something
Speaker 1: on the close out rack. I rocket to school the
Speaker 1: next day and people like, yo, what are those? I've
Speaker 1: never seen those. I'm like, that's right, you don't know
Speaker 1: where I got these. And I am telling you that,
Speaker 1: to me, is the biggest goal not to go into
Speaker 1: the hypest sneaker store, weight online five hours, buy something
Speaker 1: for five x retail rocket and be like yo, wow
Speaker 1: you It's like yeah, no, no, ship Sherlock, Like everyone
Speaker 1: knew that these are the hottest things on earth. But
Speaker 1: if you can unearth like a gem, that to me
Speaker 1: is like what a curator does. And that's what I've
Speaker 1: been doing with sneakers and comic books and vinyl all
Speaker 1: my life. Like I have a very obscure collection of stuff.
Speaker 1: It's not like the hypest stuff, but I do believe
Speaker 1: that it's a representation of me. And that's the same
Speaker 1: thing when it comes to U n f T s,
Speaker 1: like the sort of Hallmark names are like crypto punks
Speaker 1: or like board apes and stuff. I don't have any
Speaker 1: of those. I have all these things that I just
Speaker 1: personally really love. UM And I wish more people, whether
Speaker 1: they were creatives or not creatives, instead of looking at
Speaker 1: your favorite influence or magazine or blog to tell you
Speaker 1: what to buy, I wish they would look in the
Speaker 1: mirror more and be like, what do you want? Like
Speaker 1: what do you actually want? Like forget what the magazine
Speaker 1: or the blog tells you, Like what do you actually
Speaker 1: want to wear? You know? Um? And I think people
Speaker 1: will just get a lot more enjoyment out of it,
Speaker 1: and they won't get so stressed out about like fluctuations
Speaker 1: and trends coming and going and stuff like, because you're
Speaker 1: just being real with yourself. You know. Yeah, that's that's
Speaker 1: profound advice. I love it. I love it. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: earlier you said you're you're the king of collaboration, or
Speaker 1: you're you're you're known by right, yes, not self acclaim right,
Speaker 1: but we'll call you the king of collaboration. And I
Speaker 1: think you have a great example about you know, not creating,
Speaker 1: you know, not trying to compete with Timberland because it
Speaker 1: will take you twenty years to do what they do right.
Speaker 1: And and to some extent um in the physical world,
Speaker 1: collaboration is necessitated because expertise is decentralized, right, There are
Speaker 1: barriers to entry to be good or great at something,
Speaker 1: and so it makes sense to go to someone who
Speaker 1: is great at something else and you're great at something else,
Speaker 1: and you can come together and build something that's you know,
Speaker 1: better than than the two of you as individuals. Right.
Speaker 1: I'm curious in the digital space, what would your advice
Speaker 1: be too, businesses and creators and anyone who wants to
Speaker 1: collaborate in the digital space in the metaverse, because seemingly
Speaker 1: the barriers are minimized, right, like you said earlier, if
Speaker 1: you can think it and you can code it, it
Speaker 1: can be done. Right. So, if if those barriers are minimized,
Speaker 1: how should people think about collaboration instead of everyone just
Speaker 1: sort of going and doing their own things, and you've
Speaker 1: got this proliferation of everything that is sort of kind
Speaker 1: of the same. What are your thoughts on that, dude?
Speaker 1: That's a that's a great question. I mean, like, you're right,
Speaker 1: but in the web to web one world, it was
Speaker 1: about different types of expertise is coming together, right, I think,
Speaker 1: Like so, as I mentioned, I've only been in the
Speaker 1: space for nine months, but in this nine months, I
Speaker 1: have collaborated with like three to five different groups. I'm
Speaker 1: working on other collaborations as well, so I'm still collaborating
Speaker 1: with people in the space. But what I've noticed that's
Speaker 1: different is that when we collaborate in the n f
Speaker 1: T space, it's more like we're both finding out stuff together.
Speaker 1: We're both discovering at the same time. And I almost
Speaker 1: sort of like wanna give an analogy if you can
Speaker 1: imagine the picture of like, imagine you and a buddy
Speaker 1: are walking into a like a dense forest together, and
Speaker 1: you've got like a weed whacker, right, and you're just
Speaker 1: like hacking away at the weeds, and you're just trying
Speaker 1: to find the path. Right. Everyone in the n f
Speaker 1: T space right now, literally, I want to say everyone,
Speaker 1: even people who you think are like experts and veterans
Speaker 1: in the n f T space, they are hacking away.
Speaker 1: We are all trailblazing right now. There is no predisposed
Speaker 1: path for us to follow in this because the entire
Speaker 1: universe was only created just a few years ago, you know,
Speaker 1: so everything that everyone is doing is brand spanking new,
Speaker 1: and so when I collaborate with people, it's almost like, hey,
Speaker 1: let's take what you've learned, your your your very small learnings,
Speaker 1: and my very small learnings. If we add them together,
Speaker 1: we've got a little bit better learning, and now we
Speaker 1: can navigate this a little bit better and get maybe
Speaker 1: a little bit ahead. That's why I found the reason
Speaker 1: why I've been collaborating with people so far. It's more
Speaker 1: like knowledge information sharing. It's like a It's like if
Speaker 1: you're on a treasure hunt or like a you know,
Speaker 1: wild goose chase, or like an easter egg hunt. You know,
Speaker 1: you like share clues with each other to figure out
Speaker 1: how to get to the solution. That's kind of what
Speaker 1: Web three n f T collaboration is like, whereas Web
Speaker 1: two Web one collaboration is more about one plus one
Speaker 1: equals ten. It's like, Yo, you do this great, I
Speaker 1: do this great. If we come together, we gonna make
Speaker 1: it right. You know. That's what it's more about. But
Speaker 1: it's like, no, no one thinks like that in Web three.
Speaker 1: Web three is like, let's do this right for the culture,
Speaker 1: because it's almost like we have a subculture that we
Speaker 1: feel responsible for the future of you know, it's like
Speaker 1: I would maybe equated to like early early skateboarders or
Speaker 1: early early graffiti artists, like we have to take care
Speaker 1: of this culture so it doesn't like go to ship basically.
Speaker 1: You know, that's a great question. I never thought of
Speaker 1: that until now as no. I mean, you're dropping gyms,
Speaker 1: and I love how you simplify everything with these analogies
Speaker 1: because it just makes it so understandable. And that's really
Speaker 1: what we're trying to do here at afro Tech, with
Speaker 1: these conversations with people like you and and other great
Speaker 1: people in the space that we've had the pleasure of
Speaker 1: speaking with this to help to domystify for the audience.
Speaker 1: So so I appreciate that. The last question I've got
Speaker 1: for you is, um, It's something that I'm personally really
Speaker 1: really curious about as a you know, as a as
Speaker 1: a creator and someone who's been doing this. You know,
Speaker 1: like as we said for decades, right when you're in
Speaker 1: a creative right right when you hit that block, what
Speaker 1: are some things you do, what are some ways that
Speaker 1: you find inspiration to get yourself going again? I'm really curious,
Speaker 1: like what your techniques and SIPs there are. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is going to be different for everyone, right, So
Speaker 1: it's too each his own. But as you know, I
Speaker 1: exist in this space and in this in this community
Speaker 1: called street culture, right. And the reason why they call
Speaker 1: it street culture is because people, like real people walk
Speaker 1: and operate in these streets. Right. So street culture to
Speaker 1: me is like taking the subway or taking the bus,
Speaker 1: or just walking five miles in your hometown. Right, That
Speaker 1: to me is the essence of street culture. And that's
Speaker 1: what makes it different than like high fashion or couture fashion,
Speaker 1: right because hey, that outfit that you wore walking down
Speaker 1: the catwalk or runway looks really beautiful. But and counna
Speaker 1: work on Fulton ab or like you know, like Nordstrom,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like, so, like real people
Speaker 1: in these real streets is what street wear is all about.
Speaker 1: And so when I get in a rut, what I
Speaker 1: like to do is I like to travel, and I
Speaker 1: want to I want to put an asterisk on that
Speaker 1: word travel because I realized that travel is a privilege. Right.
Speaker 1: Not everyone in this world can be like I'm gonna
Speaker 1: go to JFK and travel now, right, But I want
Speaker 1: to put an asterisk on that word travel, because sometimes
Speaker 1: when I don't have the ability to actually go out
Speaker 1: and travel, travel could actually just mean taking a different
Speaker 1: path to work, Like take a different train when you
Speaker 1: walk your dog. Don't go right go, let like go
Speaker 1: the other route, you know, and just see a different blocks,
Speaker 1: see a different neighborhood. You know how many people that
Speaker 1: live in New York City that have like never been
Speaker 1: the Queens or the Bronx. You know, like just go
Speaker 1: there for dinner one night. Right, That is traveling. And
Speaker 1: I think when I do that, um, I just love
Speaker 1: seeing how different people in different communities operate, live and breathe. Listen,
Speaker 1: I've got to I've got a globally known clothing brand
Speaker 1: that this year is the anniversary of. It wouldn't be
Speaker 1: successful if I only made stuff for people who lived
Speaker 1: only in downtown New York City. I had to go
Speaker 1: out there and see l A, Miami, Houston, Atlanta, Berlin, Tokyo,
Speaker 1: London and be like, oh, this is how street culture
Speaker 1: and you know street culture. I mean really, when I
Speaker 1: say street culture, I mean real people in real streets. Right,
Speaker 1: This is how real people in real streets just live, breathe,
Speaker 1: and operate. Now, me as a creator, I want to
Speaker 1: make stuff for them. And I think that is one
Speaker 1: of the secret sauces for why staple has continued to
Speaker 1: spread Because it wasn't too niche, it wasn't too insulated.
Speaker 1: It was sort of a democratic for everyone and everyone
Speaker 1: who's sort of just like is not fancy runway model
Speaker 1: kind of looking, you know, shopping at the most highest
Speaker 1: end department stores. Um. But I deliberately did that all throughout.
Speaker 1: And so when I need inspiration, I just turned to
Speaker 1: my my customer. Really, I just go to the street.
Speaker 1: I'll sit at a cafe on a corner, and I'll
Speaker 1: just people watch. Um. And I try to do it
Speaker 1: as much as I can outside of my comfort zone
Speaker 1: of my hometown, of my home neighborhood. Uh. And jan's
Speaker 1: just get out there and see the world. Get you know,
Speaker 1: take a bus, take a walk, whatever. But if you
Speaker 1: get stuck in a rut, I find just seeing something
Speaker 1: outside of a normal perspective helps tremendously. Let's say your advice,
Speaker 1: and really the way you frame it is like, turn
Speaker 1: to your customer, right, and if you want to, and
Speaker 1: that's true for any entrepreneur, right, you turn to your
Speaker 1: customer and if you want to grow the business right,
Speaker 1: turn to different customers, right, get out of your comfort
Speaker 1: zone and and experience, you know, different energies. So that's
Speaker 1: the Jeff, I appreciate you stopping buying and having this
Speaker 1: this talk man, you drops, I learned a lot. I'm
Speaker 1: excited about the conversation. I know everyone in tennis is
Speaker 1: as well. Uh so real quick? Yeah, just where can
Speaker 1: people find you on social anythings you want to highlight
Speaker 1: before we sign off? Yeah, I mean I'm on the
Speaker 1: socials at Jeff Staple all one word, um, follow me on.
Speaker 1: You know the latest and fashion, streetwear, sneakers, retail design.
Speaker 1: It's a lot uh n f t s metaverse. But
Speaker 1: if you go down um and hang with us, you
Speaker 1: can learn a lot, I think so. I hope to
Speaker 1: see you on the other side. Black Tech Green Money
Speaker 1: is the production to BLACKVIDI Afro Tech in the Black
Speaker 1: Fact podcast network in My Heart Media, and it's produced
Speaker 1: by Morgan Dubon and me Lucas, with additional production support
Speaker 1: by Love Beach and Marissa Lewis. Special thank you to
Speaker 1: Michael David's Germain Hall in vanessas Rando learn more about
Speaker 1: my guests and other technis, weapons and innovatives, an afrotech
Speaker 1: dot com, Julian black Tech, Green Money leave us a
Speaker 1: five star rating on iTunes, Go get your money, Be
Speaker 1: in love,