1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:02,520 Speaker 1: We're gonna get personal. Let's go, Let's Go. 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 2: John Legend is a global superstar, a groundbreaking activist and 3 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:11,120 Speaker 2: one of only twenty one artists to achieve EGOT status. 4 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:12,920 Speaker 1: And the Oscar Goes Too. 5 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: Winning an Emmy, Grammy Oscar and Tony. But behind the 6 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 2: music was a childhood marked by struggle and systems that 7 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 2: failed his community. 8 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 3: My mother either spent some time in our local jails 9 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,160 Speaker 3: as she was struggling with drug addiction and mental health 10 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:29,640 Speaker 3: issues during my teen years. As I think about how 11 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 3: I make change now, I'm always considering the family I 12 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,919 Speaker 3: came from, the community I came from and seeing what 13 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:38,839 Speaker 3: I can do to change those systems. 14 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 2: And through it all, it's the family he built that 15 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 2: keeps him grounded and laughing. 16 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 4: Kids have a unique way of holding our feet to 17 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 4: the fire. 18 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 3: Chrissy's always been good at roasting me and a Luna 19 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 3: has taken on some of that, so whenever she doesn't 20 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 3: like my outfit, she'll let me know. 21 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:02,080 Speaker 2: Join host Martin Luther King the Third, Andrea Waters, King, 22 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 2: Mark Kilberger, and Craig Kilberger for a deeply moving conversation 23 00:01:06,280 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 2: about family resilience and finding hope in the hardest places. 24 00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:13,959 Speaker 1: We want to speak up, even when it may be against. 25 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 5: What Welcome to My Legacy. Today's guest is John Legend. 26 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 5: The legacy he's building goes far beyond his soulful music 27 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,040 Speaker 5: that's connected with millions around the world. John has spent 28 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 5: two decades using his platform to fight for criminal justice reform, 29 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 5: invest in education and housing, and build racial equity across 30 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 5: American cities and communities. John, We're honored to have you 31 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 5: with us here today and on this show My Legacy. 32 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 5: We always ask a guest to bring someone who's deeply 33 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 5: meaningful in their life, someone who they have connected with, 34 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 5: someone who they admire. John, could you do us the 35 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 5: honor of introducing who is your plus one with us 36 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 5: here today? 37 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 3: Well, you are right that this person has meant a 38 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 3: lot to me, and we've worked together. I've learned a 39 00:02:03,040 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 3: lot from him through his great research that he and 40 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:11,399 Speaker 3: his team are doing. But I'm introducing doctor Andre Perry. 41 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 3: He is a scholar, a researcher, but he also goes 42 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,000 Speaker 3: beyond that and is a real leader in making change 43 00:02:20,040 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 3: happen in our communities. 44 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: All across the country. 45 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 3: He studies things like well being and closing racial gaps, 46 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 3: especially the racial wealth gap, and we've been able to 47 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 3: collaborate together to inspire and to fund change that's happening 48 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 3: all around the country and our cities and our states. 49 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 3: And I'm very excited to have him with me today. 50 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 3: We can all learn from him, like I get to 51 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 3: learn from him all the time. So excited to present 52 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 3: doctor Andre Perry. 53 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 6: Well that was great, but thank you John for that 54 00:02:58,919 --> 00:02:59,880 Speaker 6: wonderful introduction. 55 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 5: Andre. I love that John is calling you his teacher. Frankly, 56 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:06,239 Speaker 5: that's pretty cool. It's got to pitch yourself moment a 57 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:06,639 Speaker 5: little bit. 58 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 6: Oh it is. Oftentimes I get to present a little 59 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,919 Speaker 6: bit before John on the stage, and I always say, 60 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 6: it's a pleasure to be the opening act or John. 61 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 6: But I learned from him. He actually had the background 62 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:27,079 Speaker 6: that's similar to mine. I mean, he was a consultant 63 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 6: for Boston Consulting Group, and so he put together all 64 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 6: the spreadsheets and the power point decks that I put together. 65 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 6: So we have very similar backgrounds, both professionally and and 66 00:03:41,600 --> 00:03:44,520 Speaker 6: there's some overlap personally. So it's always a pleasure to 67 00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 6: work with him and learn from him. 68 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 5: Could you imagine what a Lost Wood mentioned of the 69 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 5: world if you had stayed h Could you actually take 70 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 5: us a little bit back to the journey before you 71 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 5: were a consultant, to actually your childhood. What was so 72 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 5: influential in your own journey to become such a passionate 73 00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 5: advocate for equity, for equality, for the fight that you've 74 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 5: taken on. 75 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 3: Well, I grew up in a town called Springfield, Ohio. 76 00:04:10,000 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 3: I grew up in a working class neighborhood. My father 77 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 3: was a factory worker. He was an autoworker, so he 78 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 3: was a union member UAW. My mother stayed at home 79 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:23,760 Speaker 3: with us, and she homeschooled us for quite a few 80 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 3: years during my grade school years. So both of them 81 00:04:27,040 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 3: really imbued values in US, character and us and also 82 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 3: stressed the importance of education. But I also knew what 83 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 3: it was like to have a family that was subject 84 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 3: to the ups and downs of the economy, especially in 85 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:44,719 Speaker 3: the Rust Belt. 86 00:04:44,839 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: With a father and a manufacturing job. 87 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,960 Speaker 3: We saw what it was like to, you know, get 88 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 3: laid off and have factories shut down, and have factories 89 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 3: decided that they didn't want as many employees as they 90 00:04:57,640 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 3: used to have. I personally experience what it's like for 91 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,799 Speaker 3: a lot of people in America to feel like their 92 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 3: position in the country, their status in the country is 93 00:05:10,560 --> 00:05:14,719 Speaker 3: always in kind of a tenuous state, So they don't 94 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 3: know from week to week whether they're going to have 95 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 3: all the money and the food that they need. 96 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 1: They don't know if they're going to. 97 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 3: Have all the support they need, their challenge finding good schools, 98 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,920 Speaker 3: all of those things I think we experience as kids, 99 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 3: But I think at the time. 100 00:05:34,240 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: I didn't really understand systemic. 101 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 3: Issues and how my personal experience and the experience of 102 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 3: those around me was affected by policy and by choices that. 103 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:47,000 Speaker 1: Our leaders make on our behalf. 104 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 3: And as I think about how I make change now, 105 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 3: I think I'm always considering the family I came from, 106 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,320 Speaker 3: the community I came from, and seeing what I can do. 107 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: Along with people like doctor Perry to change those systems. 108 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 4: Were there any particular one moment or moments that made 109 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 4: you feel the impact, you know, like you felt as 110 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 4: John Legend little boy growing up, the impact of injustice 111 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:18,440 Speaker 4: in the community that still influences you today. 112 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 6: Well. 113 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 3: As I got older and into my teen years, I 114 00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,920 Speaker 3: saw some of my friends get caught up in incarceration, 115 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,280 Speaker 3: get caught up in the criminal justice system. My mother 116 00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,520 Speaker 3: even spent some time in our local jails as she 117 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:36,400 Speaker 3: was struggling with drug addiction and mental health issues during 118 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:39,919 Speaker 3: my teen years, and I also as I got a 119 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 3: little older, had friends returning home and family members returning 120 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 3: home from state prison who were telling me how hard 121 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 3: it was for them to reintegrate, how hard it was 122 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:53,760 Speaker 3: for them to get housing, to get a job, to 123 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 3: past background checks for all sorts of things, and basically 124 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:58,919 Speaker 3: they were saying, it makes. 125 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: It so hard for us to provide for our families and. 126 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 3: Reintegrate back into the community that it almost pushed us 127 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 3: us back into crime because it makes it so hard 128 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,880 Speaker 3: for us to participate in the legitimate economy. So seeing 129 00:07:12,960 --> 00:07:17,960 Speaker 3: those personal examples in my own life have informed so 130 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,560 Speaker 3: much of my activism around these areas because I saw 131 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 3: the effects that it had on my family members. That 132 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 3: one of the stories is of the father of my 133 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 3: two of my nephews, so my sister's baby's father. He 134 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 3: was returning home from prison, and the impact that we 135 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 3: felt was the impact on my nephews, you know, seeing 136 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 3: that their dad couldn't provide for them and reintegrate back 137 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 3: into the community and seeing that effect that it had 138 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:55,559 Speaker 3: on them, and wanting to make a difference, not because 139 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,120 Speaker 3: I had any special love for this the father of 140 00:07:59,160 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 3: my nephews, because he did some things that we weren't 141 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 3: happy with in the way he treated my sister, But 142 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 3: I still wanted him to be able to be there 143 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 3: for his kids because they're my nephews and I care 144 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 3: about them. And so it's like, you want the person 145 00:08:16,120 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 3: to stop harming people, You want the person to face 146 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 3: consequences for harming people, but you also want them to 147 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 3: be able to reintegrate so they can be better and 148 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 3: be a better father and be a better community member. 149 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 3: And so I would see that on a personal level 150 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:37,600 Speaker 3: and then translate that to how can I make a 151 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 3: difference on his systemic level? 152 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 4: John, I can really hear in your voice how hard 153 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 4: that was. 154 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 7: Andre you've spoken about your own personal loss, losing your 155 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 7: father while he was in jail and the instability that followed. 156 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 7: Can you share your story and how that has shaped 157 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 7: your work that you're involved in today. 158 00:09:02,000 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 6: Well, certainly, as a story was told to me before 159 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 6: I was born, there was a deal made between my 160 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 6: maternal grandmother and this woman in the hood named Elsie Boyd. 161 00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:16,400 Speaker 6: I call her mom. But the way the story goes 162 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 6: my mother at the time was very young. She was 163 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:24,360 Speaker 6: fifteen when she had my older brother. She was seventeen 164 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:29,880 Speaker 6: when she had me. She struggled with my biological father. 165 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 6: So mom did what a lot of matriarchs did at 166 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 6: the time. She took in kids. She took in myself, 167 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 6: my brother, she took in other kids that came along 168 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 6: the way that also struggled. And during the time US 169 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,800 Speaker 6: Steel moved out of town, jobs left along with it. 170 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 6: People left, and my town hollowed out, and so there 171 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 6: wasn't a lot of opportunity. So my father, as was mentioned, 172 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,720 Speaker 6: he got caught up in drug life. He was a 173 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 6: heroin addict. He was eventually in and out of jails, 174 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 6: in prison. He was eventually murdered inside of Jackson State Penitentiary, 175 00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 6: which is a penitentiary outside of Detroit where he was born. 176 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 6: But you know, there was instability in some respect, but 177 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,600 Speaker 6: Mom brought a lot of stability to my to my 178 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:33,320 Speaker 6: my life. That and and I it's really seeded my 179 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 6: research because she's the closest thing to God, I know, 180 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 6: without question, without question. With that, even said she actually 181 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 6: owned a home, actually her son owned a home through 182 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 6: the GI bill. He was a GI he got to 183 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 6: have a home in which she essentially adopted the home 184 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:01,120 Speaker 6: as well, and so she leveraged that asset to take 185 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 6: care of children all across the neighborhood. And so my 186 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 6: story is one certainly that fuels and inspires my research. 187 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:14,960 Speaker 6: I have brothers and sisters who aren't related to me. 188 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 6: I consider John a brother, and in many ways I 189 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 6: write a lot about power, and for me, power is 190 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:29,600 Speaker 6: about expanding your family, expanding the concept of family. But 191 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 6: we also have a responsibility to do for our family 192 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:37,720 Speaker 6: members the same way Mom did for me, and the 193 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 6: same way my research should. 194 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 4: Do for others like follow and subscribe to my Legacy podcast, 195 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 4: and most importantly, share this with someone who needs a 196 00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:55,959 Speaker 4: reminder of their strength today Back in a moment, now 197 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 4: back to my legacy. 198 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 8: John question to you, your activism has been nothing short 199 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 8: of profound and awesome. We're all awestruck of what you do. 200 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,400 Speaker 8: Of course, for those who do not know who are 201 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 8: listening or watching. You focus first on inequality in the 202 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,920 Speaker 8: education system. You worked on the school to prison pipeline issue, 203 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:17,560 Speaker 8: and then of course you've also focused on the issue 204 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 8: of mass incarceration. Now you're putting all that you're culminating 205 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 8: all that insight, all that wisdom with human level. So 206 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 8: for those who are not familiar with human level, tell 207 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 8: us why is this so important and why are you 208 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 8: so passionate about it, and why is this the best 209 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 8: way in your mind to make the biggest impact. 210 00:12:36,679 --> 00:12:40,560 Speaker 3: Well, at human level, we're really focused on the community level. 211 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 3: We believe that these community level interventions are so key 212 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:49,920 Speaker 3: to affecting how people actually live their lives and their 213 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:52,840 Speaker 3: well being. So a lot of these issues are like 214 00:12:53,040 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 3: housing and neighborhood development, small business development, access to groceries 215 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 3: and access to services that you need in the community, 216 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 3: access to healthcare, and all these things that are really 217 00:13:10,080 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 3: fundamental to how people live their everyday lives. And so 218 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 3: often we focus on national politics, who's president, who's the 219 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 3: speaker of the House, who's the majority leader of the Senate, 220 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 3: and those are all important things, But when we think 221 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 3: about the interventions that affect people's daily lives, the walk 222 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 3: to the bus stop, their access to an affordable home, 223 00:13:35,559 --> 00:13:39,640 Speaker 3: the things that affect how daily life has lived for 224 00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:42,839 Speaker 3: so many people, a lot of those decisions are made 225 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,560 Speaker 3: on a local level, and so at human level, our 226 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 3: focus is on placing fellows in the government who are 227 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:57,439 Speaker 3: requested by the mayor or the city manager and asked 228 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 3: to come and work on specific issues that affect people 229 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,400 Speaker 3: who are often marginalized and don't often have a seat 230 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 3: at the table. If the city's going to spend money, 231 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 3: if the city's going to make decisions about budgets and priorities, 232 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 3: then every community needs to have a seat at the table. 233 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 3: And we need people placed in city government whose mission 234 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,960 Speaker 3: is to increase equity, whose mission is to make sure 235 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 3: that people who hadn't had a seat at the table 236 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:32,600 Speaker 3: before are listened to. And we figure if we can 237 00:14:32,720 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 3: affect some of our largest cities with the highest concentrations 238 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 3: of population in the country, then we can really affect 239 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 3: the entire nation. 240 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 5: I love the mission, I love the name, I love 241 00:14:44,920 --> 00:14:47,080 Speaker 5: every aspect of it because, to your point, so often 242 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 5: we're focused on the shiny federal or state, but where 243 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 5: real change happens is the grassroots. So Andre, can you 244 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 5: actually tell us but what is truly working at that 245 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 5: human level that John and all of you experience. 246 00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 6: Yeah. Yeah. One of the things that we do together 247 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 6: is what we call walk the block, and our generally 248 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:11,800 Speaker 6: general philosophy is we have to emphasize on things that 249 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 6: are working. Too often we point to the disparity, what's broken. 250 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 6: And by the way, no one invests in problems, they 251 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 6: invest in solutions. And then Detroit, we visited one community 252 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 6: it's called the Liveranoy six mile community where we actually 253 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:36,320 Speaker 6: saw people leveraging municipal policy that enabled local residents to 254 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,600 Speaker 6: purchase the actual property. There. They have a land bank 255 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:45,040 Speaker 6: that that people in the community can actually go out 256 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 6: and and and purchase a property. But also there were 257 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 6: several investments in that area for everything from the street 258 00:15:55,800 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 6: skates to the facing of the buildings and investments in 259 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:06,960 Speaker 6: developers who actually lived who live in that living Oy 260 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:11,720 Speaker 6: six mile area. And so those investments, what it has 261 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 6: proven over time is now you have a vibrant community. 262 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 6: Education is up, employment is up, incomes are up, home 263 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 6: ownership is up. And guess what, there hasn't been displacement 264 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 6: across the board. And that's the reason why is because 265 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 6: the investments are going to community members and when people 266 00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 6: have access to capital, they know what to do with it. 267 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,480 Speaker 6: They build themselves and their communities overall. 268 00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 3: And the name of that type of program is called 269 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,480 Speaker 3: buy back the Block. And we're seeing examples of that 270 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 3: throughout the country. And one of the key things, as 271 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:56,360 Speaker 3: doctor Perry said, is that we're really letting the actual 272 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 3: community that's being affected by all this uh real estate 273 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:06,320 Speaker 3: development and everything that's going on in their community, that 274 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:10,640 Speaker 3: you know, has to walk by that boarded up building, 275 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 3: that has to experience the neighborhood on a daily level. 276 00:17:13,760 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 3: We're letting them make decisions, investment decisions together about how 277 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 3: to improve their neighborhood, what their priorities are. 278 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 6: And John, I just want to add one other thing. 279 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 6: We visited Baltimore and we walked the block with a 280 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:36,360 Speaker 6: developer named Lanier Richardson who's literally buying, buying these morbon 281 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 6: strip malls. But what he's doing, he's going from door 282 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:44,320 Speaker 6: to door asking local residents do they want to become 283 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 6: investors in this property. The SEC Security Exchange Commission approved 284 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 6: these crowdfunding platforms for as residents for as little as 285 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 6: one thousand dollars can actually invest and co own the property, 286 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 6: and this is actually proven to be a solution. A 287 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,720 Speaker 6: few weeks ago, it was announced that one of these 288 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 6: developments was was actually sold and the community members then 289 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 6: get dividends from that sale. But more importantly, it gets 290 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 6: to something John said when people own property, and and 291 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,359 Speaker 6: mind you, these are largely residents who are descendants of 292 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:34,040 Speaker 6: the enslaved. So people who were once owned now owning 293 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:40,399 Speaker 6: property it means something. It changes the character of the place. 294 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:44,680 Speaker 6: So this buy back the block, it's yeah. I mean 295 00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:47,199 Speaker 6: some people will look at it about wealth creation and 296 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 6: this and that, but it's about reimagining our neighborhoods, being 297 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 6: a part of our our neighborhoods, having a say in 298 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:01,040 Speaker 6: your own recovery. It's it's it's it's such an important endeavor. 299 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 4: So now, Andre you are a brilliant author, and I'm 300 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:06,720 Speaker 4: going to ask you about a couple of your books, 301 00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 4: but before that, I want you to put on your 302 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,520 Speaker 4: professor orial hat. And because particularly now, when history has 303 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 4: been challenged in so many ways, can you give our 304 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 4: listeners a history lesson in redlining? Well, they understand how 305 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:23,119 Speaker 4: we got here. 306 00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 6: I can actually explain it to a fourth grader. For instance, 307 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 6: people drew red lines around neighborhoods to determine that they 308 00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 6: were unworthy of investments from the government. And this is 309 00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 6: during a time and those red lines were drawn around 310 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 6: predominantly black neighborhoods. There were other people in those neighborhoods, 311 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 6: but wherever there was a predominantly black neighbor they were 312 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 6: drawing red lines around and saying this area is too 313 00:19:54,680 --> 00:20:01,359 Speaker 6: risky for investment. And that has reverberations today. Most people 314 00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:05,439 Speaker 6: know me through my research on housing devaluation, where we 315 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 6: found that homes and black neighborhoods are underpriced by twenty 316 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:13,440 Speaker 6: three percent, about forty eight thousand per home. Cumulatively, they're 317 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,600 Speaker 6: about one hundred and fifty six billion in lost equity. 318 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,479 Speaker 6: And I always make this plane for people. What one 319 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,320 Speaker 6: hundred and fifty six billion means one hundred and fifty 320 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:25,480 Speaker 6: six billion would have financed more than four million black 321 00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 6: owned businesses based upon the average amount black people use 322 00:20:28,359 --> 00:20:30,480 Speaker 6: to start their firms. Would have paid for more than 323 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 6: eight million four year degrees based upon the average amount 324 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,760 Speaker 6: of a four year public education replaced. The pipes in Flint, 325 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,359 Speaker 6: Michigan three thousand times over covered nearly all of Hurricane 326 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 6: Katrina damage. Is double the annual economic burden of the 327 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:48,800 Speaker 6: opioid crisis. It's a big number, and that's just in housing. 328 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,639 Speaker 6: And one of the things that I'm very proud of 329 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 6: this partnership with human Level and John is that we 330 00:20:56,359 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 6: recognize the metaphor that the sets are much more, much 331 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:07,360 Speaker 6: stronger than they are priced that and we also recognize 332 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 6: that it's not the housing that's the value as much 333 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 6: as the people that are the value. So our job 334 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 6: is to uplift the people in the in the assets 335 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 6: in those communities because they're worthy of investment. 336 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, and just to put a finer point on it, 337 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,359 Speaker 3: With wealth, we talk a lot about the wealth gap, 338 00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,359 Speaker 3: and the largest driver of people's wealth in the United 339 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 3: States is home ownership and property ownership. And when black 340 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 3: people have been historically shut out of home ownership or 341 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 3: their home ownership has been devalued, that almost entirely explains 342 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 3: the wealth gap. Like you don't need any like extra factors. 343 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,160 Speaker 3: We are discriminated against an income and jobs and things 344 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 3: of that nature, but almost the entire wealth gap can 345 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 3: be explained strictly when it comes to housing wealth. And 346 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 3: so whenever we've been historically discriminated against in that area, 347 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,639 Speaker 3: that explains the wealth gap almost entirely, and. 348 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 1: Trying to address that any way that we. 349 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 3: Can is so crucial to addressing the wealth gap. 350 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:26,919 Speaker 4: So Martin, when your father sometimes would giving the Sunday sermon, 351 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 4: what would your what would your grandfather be famous for saying? 352 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:36,560 Speaker 4: They get plain, so they get plain. And so I 353 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,919 Speaker 4: have a question for you, Andrew. I want you to 354 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 4: make this plane because I know that your books, Know 355 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 4: Your Price and Black Scorecard really shows how America chronically 356 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 4: undervalues Black people and our homes. That's what we've been 357 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 4: talking about in order for our listeners to truly understand 358 00:22:54,560 --> 00:22:57,720 Speaker 4: the personal impact of that is there because in the 359 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,399 Speaker 4: black community, it's something that we've known for you know, 360 00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 4: we can nod. We understand that our homes. We could 361 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 4: have two homes right next to each other, and the 362 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 4: black home is undervalue next to our white neighbors. Your 363 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 4: book and your research though, put that put that out 364 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 4: there to the entire world. Was there one particular story 365 00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 4: that you would like to share with our listeners so 366 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 4: that they can really understand from a person on a 367 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 4: heart level, the impact of this. 368 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:30,880 Speaker 6: Yeah. My brother Nathan Conley, who's a professor at Johns Hopkins, 369 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:34,040 Speaker 6: he told me a story. They were attempting to get 370 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 6: their home appraised and they called me to say, hey, 371 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:44,040 Speaker 6: should we remove all the black artifacts, the clothing, the artwork, 372 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 6: all those different things, and I told him it's a 373 00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 6: sad reality, but I would do it. They did get 374 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 6: in a praiser the first time. They felt they were 375 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:01,800 Speaker 6: low balled. They called another appraiser, but this time they 376 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:05,600 Speaker 6: remove all the black artifacts. The second appraiser came in. 377 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 6: Now this is where they're a little bit of a 378 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 6: funny story. There's two aspects. One, they left a jar 379 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 6: of cocoa butter on the nightstand. The white was like, Oh, 380 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:28,600 Speaker 6: the gig is up. She's yelling at Nathan. You ruined 381 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 6: the cocoa butter was there. But they also did one 382 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 6: thing and that might have saved them. They also put 383 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:40,399 Speaker 6: a picture of blue eyed Jesus on the wad. I 384 00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 6: call that appraisal Jesus. But but the but the appraisal 385 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 6: came back two hundred and sixty something thousand dollars higher. Wow, 386 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:01,479 Speaker 6: which shows you the intrinsic value you of whiteness in 387 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 6: that car. Now, I rattled off some numbers, but let's 388 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 6: be real that two hundred and sixty thousand dollars, that's tuition. 389 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,199 Speaker 6: That's starting a business, that's wanting if you want to 390 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 6: move to a better neighborhood, that's what it is. It's 391 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 6: life changing money. And this is the other thing that 392 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 6: I say in all my materials, like it keeps my 393 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 6: teeth white, that when things go wrong in black communities 394 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,959 Speaker 6: we blame black people. We don't look at the wealth 395 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 6: that is extracted and the opportunity that extracted from everyday policies. 396 00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:47,080 Speaker 6: And I say, there's nothing wrong with black people that 397 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 6: ending racism can't solve. 398 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:51,960 Speaker 1: I completely agree, completely. 399 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 6: Gone is right, Like if we can get rid of 400 00:25:54,880 --> 00:26:00,400 Speaker 6: rags of racism, will be so much better off. I mean, 401 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:05,040 Speaker 6: so for me, it's like, let's stop blaming black people. 402 00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:09,560 Speaker 6: Let's stop blaming one other thing. One other of my 403 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 6: quotes is comes from Tic tech Nan and I say 404 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:16,359 Speaker 6: this all the time. Dude who said the Vietnamese philosopher said, 405 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,640 Speaker 6: if you're growing ahead of lettuce and the lettuce isn't growing, 406 00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,679 Speaker 6: you don't blame the lettuce. You look to see if 407 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,320 Speaker 6: the soil is enrich if it's getting sunlight, if it's 408 00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:29,199 Speaker 6: getting rain water. You never blame the lettuce. But in things, 409 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 6: when things go wrong in black communities, we blame the immigrants, 410 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:39,080 Speaker 6: we blame the teachers, we blame the like we got 411 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 6: to look at the structural and not blame and get 412 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:43,400 Speaker 6: out this blaming game. 413 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 8: We love it if you could share this episode with 414 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 8: someone who you admire, someone who shows up for you, 415 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,840 Speaker 8: who cares about you, who lives their legacy every day. 416 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 5: We'll be back in a moment. Now, back to my legacy. 417 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,359 Speaker 4: Now, and your oldest daughter, Luna, I think is nine 418 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:02,920 Speaker 4: years old. 419 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 1: Yeah she's not. 420 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 4: Uh huh. We have a seventeen year old teenager. So 421 00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,680 Speaker 4: so just you wait, because. 422 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: I've heard about I've heard about these adolescents. 423 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm not particularly looking forward to it, but we'll 424 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 3: get through it. 425 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 5: But you will. 426 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:22,879 Speaker 4: But you know the thing about it is that kids 427 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,600 Speaker 4: have a unique way of holding our feet to the fire. Right, 428 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,080 Speaker 4: So you know, she's not necessarily they're not impressed that 429 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 4: you are. They will come back to being impressed that 430 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:37,240 Speaker 4: my dad is an egot winner. But until they get 431 00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 4: to that point when you both come home at night, 432 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:42,120 Speaker 4: you're just dad. So what are some ways in which 433 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,080 Speaker 4: she's kind of held your feet to the fire. 434 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,479 Speaker 3: Well, they make it clear that they want to be 435 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 3: made a priority. So you know, daddy's got concerts, daddy's 436 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 3: got work to do, But daddy's got to make sure 437 00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 3: he shows up for them, and they're already expecting that 438 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,560 Speaker 3: from me, and I want to deliver that for them. 439 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,520 Speaker 3: But they'll definitely hold my feet to the fire. If 440 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:06,480 Speaker 3: I can't make a performance or a game or something 441 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,600 Speaker 3: like that, they'll let it be known that they're not 442 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:09,440 Speaker 3: happy about it. 443 00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 1: And you know, I need that. 444 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:13,720 Speaker 3: Check on myself sometimes, not that I don't want to 445 00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 3: be at those things, but you know, there are a 446 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 3: lot of competing scheduling things that are always happening, and 447 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,119 Speaker 3: they remind me to make sure that they're a priority. 448 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 1: And then Chrissy's always been good at roasting me. 449 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,679 Speaker 3: I think I think Luna has taken on some of that. 450 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,040 Speaker 3: So whenever I'm getting dressed in the closet and she 451 00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 3: doesn't like my outfit, she'll let me know. And she 452 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 3: she's not trying to flatter me. If she don't like 453 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 3: my office, she'll tell me right right there. And I 454 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:51,880 Speaker 3: have a feeling there's a lot more of that to 455 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 3: come as she crosses into double dishes. 456 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, And you know, it's so interesting because Martin's parents 457 00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 4: were seen as a part partnership grounded in purpose, and 458 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 4: I have to tell you that for Martin and I 459 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 4: you and Chrissy give that same energy. 460 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 1: We really are a partnership. 461 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 3: We focus on some separate things philanthropically, but so much 462 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:15,720 Speaker 3: of it goes. 463 00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 1: Hand in hand with each other. 464 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 3: And you know, she's got a food business, and she's 465 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 3: very focused on hunger as an issue and helping to 466 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 3: feed children, especially as an issue, and then as someone 467 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 3: who's gone through her own challenges when it comes to 468 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,880 Speaker 3: reproductive rights, she's been very attuned to that issue. And 469 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 3: we collaborate as much as we can, and I think overall, 470 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,840 Speaker 3: our kids see that we care about the world. We 471 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,280 Speaker 3: want to speak up, even when it's not always the 472 00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,760 Speaker 3: most popular thing to do, even when it may be 473 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 3: against what those in charge want us to say. 474 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: We have the courage to speak up, and. 475 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,120 Speaker 3: Hopefully I'll take those lessons with them and have that 476 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 3: same kind of current. 477 00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 4: Is that's something that both of you all were you 478 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 4: all both already individually active in social justice and communities 479 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 4: or is that a path that you all found together. 480 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 3: Well, you know, we met when I was in my 481 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 3: mid twenties and Chrissy was in her early twenties, so 482 00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 3: you know, we were pretty young when we met. We've 483 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,360 Speaker 3: been together we've been married for almost twelve years, but 484 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 3: we've been together for much longer than that, so we've 485 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,719 Speaker 3: really grown up together. A lot of our adult lives 486 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 3: have been together, and so I think we learned from 487 00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:37,960 Speaker 3: each other. I was a little older than Chrissy, so 488 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:39,560 Speaker 3: I think she saw a lot of the work I 489 00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:43,840 Speaker 3: was doing, and it helped her find her voice as 490 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 3: a philanthropist and as someone who's engaged politically, like Christy 491 00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:54,240 Speaker 3: just did a wonderful visit to a reproductive health center 492 00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 3: in Memphis, Tennessee, and she's done visits in Atlanta and 493 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,760 Speaker 3: other place places around the country, and she gets to 494 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:06,760 Speaker 3: learn so much from folks who do this work every 495 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,680 Speaker 3: single day. And we learn from each other that it's 496 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:12,000 Speaker 3: so important to listen to folks who are doing the 497 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 3: work every day. Listen to activists. Don't come in there 498 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 3: thinking that just because you're the famous one and you're 499 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:21,200 Speaker 3: the celebrity, that you have all the answers, but really listen, 500 00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 3: really value the community that you're working with and their 501 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 3: lived experience, and learn from them, and then use your 502 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,800 Speaker 3: platform to amplify what they have to say, amplify what they. 503 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 1: Need, and advocate for them. 504 00:31:39,000 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 3: But always be listening first and learning first. 505 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 4: You said that you all dated for a while. This 506 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,560 Speaker 4: is a question because I how did you hear did 507 00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 4: you hear my husband grown? Because I want to see 508 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 4: just one quick question, because I want to see did 509 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 4: you all beat our time dating or not? How long 510 00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 4: did you date before you got married? 511 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 3: So I proposed five years after we met, but we 512 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 3: didn't get married till exactly seven years after we met. 513 00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: So so to the day through the day we got married. 514 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:15,880 Speaker 3: We met on September thirteen, two thousand and six, and 515 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 3: we got married that weekend in twenty thirteen, seven seven 516 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 3: years later. 517 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:23,840 Speaker 5: Well, the listeners of youers going to want to know 518 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:24,840 Speaker 5: the answer out of the question. 519 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:26,680 Speaker 1: What was the question. 520 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 5: Ten years? 521 00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:31,800 Speaker 2: Ten years? 522 00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:33,680 Speaker 4: Which yeah, yeah, which? 523 00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 2: Always loved that. 524 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 3: We were young when we started dating, like I said, 525 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:39,560 Speaker 3: And Chrissy was young. I met her when she was 526 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,800 Speaker 3: twenty about to turn twenty one, and so you know, 527 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 3: we still had growing up to do before we were 528 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 3: ready to get married. But I feel like it all 529 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:50,160 Speaker 3: happened when it was supposed to. 530 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:55,600 Speaker 7: My father delivered Yeah. I have a dream speech sixty 531 00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:59,400 Speaker 7: two years ago this month, and every year I ask 532 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:06,120 Speaker 7: myself if we're closer toward achieving his dream, are we 533 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,480 Speaker 7: getting further away? What is the one thing and this 534 00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,840 Speaker 7: is actually to both of you, that it would have 535 00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:16,719 Speaker 7: the greatest impact on making my dad's dream a reality. 536 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 6: Wow, you know that's that's big. I tend to focus 537 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 6: on housing largely because it's it's connected to so many 538 00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 6: other social systems. When you live in an area where 539 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:33,240 Speaker 6: home ownership is higher, you literally live longer, you have 540 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 6: higher levels of well being, less likely to be incarcerated, 541 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,719 Speaker 6: more likely to own a business. Because we know what 542 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 6: equity equity can can do. Home ownership is such a 543 00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:54,480 Speaker 6: critical piece of excelling as a community. And I think 544 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,720 Speaker 6: doctor King would would have won it, and he did 545 00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 6: want housing equity, making sure that people had an opportunity 546 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 6: to own a home, not just from the wealth building 547 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:15,759 Speaker 6: aspect of it, that it really does build community. And 548 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,680 Speaker 6: then related to that, and I mentioned it, I do 549 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:25,160 Speaker 6: believe that we can build enough wealth where people can 550 00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:29,000 Speaker 6: have well being that every the kind of well being 551 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:32,840 Speaker 6: that everyone deserves. Closing wealth gaps. We talk about closing 552 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 6: the wealth gap that will that's going to take some 553 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,239 Speaker 6: time and some generations to do to do that. In 554 00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 6: the meantime, we can expect people to have a certain 555 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 6: quality of life that where they're fulfilled, that they're enriched, 556 00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 6: where they can pass on something to their children. So 557 00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,000 Speaker 6: this work that John and I are doing, it's around 558 00:34:58,040 --> 00:35:01,920 Speaker 6: well being because as a meta trip, we don't have 559 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:06,160 Speaker 6: to wait for generations for people to have the kind 560 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 6: of well being they can get tomorrow. We can implement 561 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 6: housing policy, we can implement education policy. We can do 562 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 6: some things today that will provide the kind of well 563 00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 6: being that's sustained families and entire communities overall. Well. 564 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 3: I think a lot about your father's phrase, the beloved community, 565 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 3: and what it means to have love for one another, 566 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:37,160 Speaker 3: and how that love is translated into policy, And like 567 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 3: doctor Perry's referring to, we can translate love into fair 568 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,319 Speaker 3: housing policy and thinking. 569 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 1: About community building, but we can also. 570 00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:51,000 Speaker 3: Translate it into issues like war and peace, whether or 571 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:56,040 Speaker 3: not we are sending bombs to destroy communities that aren't 572 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 3: part of our country. 573 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,040 Speaker 1: But are part of a larger beloved community. 574 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,759 Speaker 3: When it comes to discrimination, doctor Perry said, there's nothing 575 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,320 Speaker 3: wrong with black people that ending racism wouldn't fix. 576 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: Part of what it means to love one another is 577 00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: to not be racist. 578 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 3: It sounds so simple, But to not discriminate against people 579 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 3: because of the color of their skin, to not treat 580 00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 3: them worse, to not deny them resources, to not praise 581 00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:31,120 Speaker 3: their home at a lower level because of the color 582 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:36,839 Speaker 3: of their skin. It sounds so simple and maybe even pedantic. 583 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 3: But if we were to love one another in that way, 584 00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 3: that we stopped being racist and stop making black people 585 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:51,960 Speaker 3: pay for racism, we would be a lot closer to 586 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:56,400 Speaker 3: doctor King's dream. And then you would see the impact 587 00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 3: when it comes to how we treat our Latino brothers, and. 588 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 1: When it comes to immigration, and. 589 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 3: So many problems that we have in our country and 590 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:13,759 Speaker 3: in our world would be solved if we took your 591 00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:19,520 Speaker 3: father's advice and created a beloved community that included everybody, 592 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 3: and we treated all of our neighbors with love and 593 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:28,040 Speaker 3: care and valued their lives like God values their lives. 594 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 6: Well. 595 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,680 Speaker 5: Andre. In fact, as we get close to closing, I 596 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,359 Speaker 5: actually want to hand some of the final words to you, 597 00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 5: just following what you just talked about there for a moment, 598 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 5: because we all know John, and the world knows John. 599 00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:38,800 Speaker 5: It's this incredible legend. 600 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:40,759 Speaker 6: Literally literally. 601 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 5: In the case, he picked out of everyone in the world. 602 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 5: He picked you as is plus one as the person 603 00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 5: who he felt that connection with, and that means just 604 00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,680 Speaker 5: the depth of the friendship that you hold in the 605 00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,160 Speaker 5: respect he holds for you. And so he gave this 606 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,320 Speaker 5: beautiful tribute to you at the beginning. Andrea, I actually 607 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 5: want to hand it back to you. You know him 608 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,560 Speaker 5: on a level that few others in the world. You've 609 00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,400 Speaker 5: seen him in the community. Can you share with us 610 00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:14,040 Speaker 5: what he means to you? And maybe a moment, well, 611 00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:15,879 Speaker 5: he did something so amazing the rest of the world 612 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:18,320 Speaker 5: didn't know, but you saw it and you saw it matter. 613 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 6: Oh, there's a couple of things. One of the lessons 614 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:26,160 Speaker 6: that I try to impart through my work it revolves 615 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,040 Speaker 6: around what it means to be successful, and we certainly 616 00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:35,880 Speaker 6: are in a time where individual success is elevated beyond 617 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 6: community success. You know, a lot of my work we 618 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 6: focus on median wealth of the community, whereas the rest 619 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,160 Speaker 6: of the country is worried about how many billionaires are 620 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:54,080 Speaker 6: presented in the Forbes, in all the other magazines. You know, 621 00:38:55,280 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 6: what John is doing is showing what ultimately what wealth 622 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:05,320 Speaker 6: and characters about is what you do with the assets 623 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:08,279 Speaker 6: that you have. Are you going to try to make 624 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:12,760 Speaker 6: lives better with it. Are you or you? It's easy 625 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:17,040 Speaker 6: to get rich and extract from communities, we really do 626 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 6: have to recalibrate what it means to be wealthy in 627 00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:26,520 Speaker 6: this in this country. And John is living by example, 628 00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 6: risking his livelihood, his riches can sacrificing his time, his 629 00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:42,320 Speaker 6: energy to uplift others. And I won't give the personal details, 630 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:45,400 Speaker 6: but when I was going through struggles, it was he 631 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,839 Speaker 6: who confided in me about his family struggles early on. 632 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,520 Speaker 6: That helped me then relay that information to my son. 633 00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 6: And you know, on one of our trips, I believe 634 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 6: it was Cleveland, my son was in the sprinter van 635 00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:07,640 Speaker 6: as we went from neighborhood to neighborhood, and he engaged 636 00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 6: with my son in significant ways. And so not only 637 00:40:14,480 --> 00:40:19,319 Speaker 6: is his work really looking to uplift people at a 638 00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,759 Speaker 6: communal level, he will reach out to people at a 639 00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 6: personal level. And I will always exalt not anyone, but 640 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:37,879 Speaker 6: particularly celebrities, because exposure is now this currency that people want, 641 00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 6: and they just want the exposure, they don't want the 642 00:40:43,080 --> 00:40:47,600 Speaker 6: responsibility of giving back that comes along with it. And 643 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 6: so I can't say enough about his charity, his giving 644 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:58,879 Speaker 6: his investment in communities. We need more people to do 645 00:40:58,920 --> 00:40:59,320 Speaker 6: the same. 646 00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,920 Speaker 5: It well, gentlemen. Our gratitude to both of you for 647 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 5: reminding us the true power is expanding the concept of family. 648 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:09,839 Speaker 5: That we got to invest in solutions and reimagine neighborhoods. 649 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:12,560 Speaker 5: We made that happen at the human level, that we 650 00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:16,319 Speaker 5: have to be quality human beings and fundamentally we need 651 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:20,600 Speaker 5: to be love. Thank you both for your incredible activism 652 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 5: and your life journey of impact and for living your legacy. 653 00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:25,960 Speaker 7: Thank you so very much, Thank. 654 00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:29,359 Speaker 1: You, Thank you. That was beautiful. Really appreciate you all. 655 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:30,719 Speaker 1: Thanks for having us. 656 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us. If you enjoyed today's conversation, subscribe, share, 657 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:40,360 Speaker 2: and follow us on at my Legacy movement on social 658 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:45,280 Speaker 2: media and YouTube. New episodes drop every Tuesday, with bonus 659 00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 2: content every Thursday. At its core, this podcast honors doctor 660 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,880 Speaker 2: King's vision of the beloved community and the power of connection. 661 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:59,000 Speaker 2: A Legacy Plus Studio production distributed by iHeartMedia creator and 662 00:41:59,040 --> 00:42:03,440 Speaker 2: executive producers Sam Heyward Come executive producer Lisa Lyle. Listen 663 00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,440 Speaker 2: on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.