WEBVTT - Permanent High Alert 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:14.240 Good morning, peeps, and welcome to will gay f Daily 0:00:14.320 --> 0:00:18.720 with Meet Your Girl Daniel Moody, recording from the Home Bunker, Folks, 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:23.560 Today's conversation with our faith in house doctor, doctor Jonathan 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:28.080 Metzel is one that I think is needed. We are 0:00:28.120 --> 0:00:32.960 living at the intersections of so many causes for anxiety, 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.680 for worry, for stress, and I don't think that we 0:00:36.760 --> 0:00:40.680 are talking about these issues like mass shootings happening multiple 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:45.239 times a week and you know, temperatures being recorded in 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:49.199 places that are well above or below normal, that we 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:53.720 are really talking about the fact that people, our lives 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:57.560 have been upended since twenty nineteen, and what that really 0:00:57.600 --> 0:01:01.680 means as a collective right, not just on an individual basis, 0:01:02.160 --> 0:01:06.360 and that we're looking and searching for things to bring 0:01:06.440 --> 0:01:09.959 us stability and make us feel quote unquote normal, whatever 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:13.120 the fuck that looks like. And so today it's conversation 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:16.000 with Jonathan kind of moves in the same way that 0:01:16.080 --> 0:01:20.480 my conversation last week with Jennifer Tobb did, which is, 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:24.120 you know, how are we all really doing and what 0:01:24.240 --> 0:01:27.400 are the methods in ways that we can deal with 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:31.560 the very real reality that there's a lot of incredibly 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:36.560 wild shit that continues to happen, and it feels some 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:41.880 days that you're trying to walk through a Category five 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:46.560 hurricane right and head to work right like that's normal, 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:49.360 and just be able to continue to go about your 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:53.120 regular day to day as if there is in catastrophe 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:57.360 literally lurking around every corner, at every gas station, at 0:01:57.400 --> 0:02:02.120 every dance studio, at every school, place of worship, what 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:05.720 have you. And so we get into a really good 0:02:05.720 --> 0:02:11.400 conversation also about a documentary that I watched called Take 0:02:11.440 --> 0:02:17.560 Your Pills XANAX on Netflix that is about this trend 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:22.040 in numbing and how it has risen over the past 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:27.600 several years by astronomical numbers. So coming up next, dear friends, 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:35.600 my conversation with our good, good doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. Folks, 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:37.960 you know that whenever we have the opportunity to talk 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:41.280 with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, I am 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:45.919 always thrilled because we have so many issues that are 0:02:45.960 --> 0:02:53.000 facing the country, Jonathan. And you know, as everyone was 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:58.000 alerted over the weekend, New York Times ding ding over 0:02:58.040 --> 0:03:00.840 everyone's phone. Even though I try not to watch the 0:03:00.919 --> 0:03:04.920 news and take a little bit of a break, mass 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:10.720 shooting takes place, killing now eleven people in California before 0:03:10.760 --> 0:03:13.079 we can even get the names down of the people 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:18.600 that have died in that tragic mass shooting, another mass 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:25.040 shooting happens in California, killing seven people. And in the 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:28.320 midst of all of that, I'm trying to really understand 0:03:28.760 --> 0:03:32.760 how we are all managing and coping with the times 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:36.280 that we are living in. And so I found myself scrolling, 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:39.400 you know, through Netflix, looking at documentaries because that's what 0:03:39.440 --> 0:03:43.600 I do on Netflix, and I came across one called 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:48.040 Take Your Pills zanex and you know, it's a whole 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:51.240 documentary about the rise of zanex. Use the you know, 0:03:51.280 --> 0:03:56.080 it talks about COVID, it talks about anxiety with Generation C, 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:58.760 it talks about all of these things. And so I 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:05.160 just like, are we missing the conversation, which is the correlation, Jonathan, 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:10.440 between what we are being forced to consider as normal 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:15.280 in our society, in our day to day and then 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:23.039 the availability of prescription drugs that are essentially meant to 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.599 numb and that is what people need in order to 0:04:27.640 --> 0:04:30.440 get through. Like, are we missing We're having all of 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:34.560 these separate conversations and I'm asking, are we missing the integration? 0:04:35.920 --> 0:04:39.200 It's it's it's just think of the moment we're living in. 0:04:39.240 --> 0:04:41.800 We're living in a state of such constant stress, and 0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:44.839 it was always the case, but the pandemic has really 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:47.800 brought this, I think, into the light in a way 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:50.240 that I think we just have never coped with before. 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:54.279 You know, I teach this big class COVID and society, 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:58.000 hundreds of students in the class, and the first exercise 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:01.280 we always do is I asked them go back to 0:05:01.320 --> 0:05:06.760 your pre pandemic self, whoever that was, and tell yourself, 0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:10.840 then something you know now that you didn't You didn't 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:15.120 know that. Wow. Like percent of the students will say 0:05:15.600 --> 0:05:18.400 life as much, you know, life and change or end 0:05:19.480 --> 0:05:22.280 for you or somebody you know, or for society. So 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:25.360 just before, like I just think people, I think people 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.320 really feel like the students often say, we just took 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:30.960 so many things for granted before, and not that it's 0:05:31.040 --> 0:05:33.760 just COVID, but you know, think of all the things 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:39.719 we've had happened since COVID, George Floyd and war and 0:05:41.480 --> 0:05:45.119 all these other things, and it just feels like there's 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:48.200 just stories and what we do, what we do as 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:52.200 a species to protect ourselves. A lot of times in 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:55.520 the face of this, which is we habituate, we normalize, 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:57.479 That's kind of what we've done. And so just the 0:05:57.520 --> 0:06:00.320 amount of stress. I just feel like we were living 0:06:00.480 --> 0:06:03.120 in a way that just wasn't aware of mortality in 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:05.280 a way that I think the pandemic really brought it 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:10.440 into focus. And some people responded to that by storming 0:06:10.480 --> 0:06:14.200 the capital. Some people responded to that by wanting to 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:17.320 hang Fauci or blame China. Some people responded that more 0:06:17.360 --> 0:06:20.560 many more people responded to that by just internalizing this 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:25.159 kind of sense of existential dread. And so I just 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.080 think that we're living in a moment where like life 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:29.920 can change at any moment, and the pandemic it's not 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:33.520 just oh, it's just because of COVID by itself, it's also, 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:37.640 you know, it just feels like things are happening. And 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:43.279 I see this even with these mass shootings that you know, 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:46.520 everybody's like it didn't get the media attention it deserved, 0:06:46.520 --> 0:06:48.520 and it didn't get the media attention it deserved, but 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.360 then there was another mass shooting like the next day. 0:06:51.440 --> 0:06:55.280 But also it's just that we're living with this kind 0:06:55.320 --> 0:06:57.960 of sense that something can happen in any moment, and 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.200 I think that that is really really profoundly taking its 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:05.000 tool on people and the mental health world for all 0:07:05.040 --> 0:07:09.800 that it's been trying to do, just cannot conceivably conceivably 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:13.600 keep up with that, you know, talk to me about 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:17.760 the fact that we are all collectively experiencing the fact 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:20.600 that anything can happen at any moment, can change at 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:25.680 any moment. Because you know, many people would say, well, 0:07:25.720 --> 0:07:28.960 that's life, right, like you can get hit by a car, 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:32.440 you can you know, somebody can have a heart attack 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:36.240 and drop dead. What is it that is unique to 0:07:36.320 --> 0:07:40.560 the experience that we are having now that has us 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:44.000 all at this place of what I am saying is 0:07:44.080 --> 0:07:48.200 high alert, right, Like this high alert which is causing 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:52.960 this high anxiety that never abates. And so how is 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.640 that different? And I think that your question is a 0:07:55.720 --> 0:07:58.760 really good one. So if you could dig in between 0:07:59.320 --> 0:08:04.640 twenty nineteen, right and and and just and and I'll 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:08.040 move us not to twenty twenty, but twenty nineteen to 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:11.840 twenty twenty three where we are, how is it, you know, 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:16.080 and how is it different than our understanding of mortality 0:08:17.440 --> 0:08:21.800 and how that has shifted. It's not just consciously paying 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:24.040 attention to like life and death. It's kind of like 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:27.320 a global sense. And I would just ask people watching this, 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:31.760 like do that exercise yourself. And it's not just about 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:33.480 oh I feel like I could die at any moment. 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:36.440 It's also think of all the other attitudes that have 0:08:36.640 --> 0:08:39.920 changed as a result of just the knowledge that there 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:44.800 could be a global pandemic or that we're seeing. I mean, 0:08:44.800 --> 0:08:49.120 we've we've had so many mass shootings. It's January. We're 0:08:49.120 --> 0:08:52.760 averaging like the highest number of mass shootings ever in 0:08:52.800 --> 0:08:57.160 recorded history. Um right now, like one point six mass 0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:01.680 shootings a day in this country. That all the you know, 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:06.240 Russia invading Ukraine up ended the kind of social contract 0:09:06.280 --> 0:09:08.560 that we've had in place for many people's lives since 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:12.560 World War Two about national borders et cetera, et cetera, 0:09:12.640 --> 0:09:16.160 et cetera. So it was just a moment, and it's 0:09:16.160 --> 0:09:20.200 also a moment where a lot of bad guys seem 0:09:20.280 --> 0:09:22.240 to be winning. You know, a lot of people who 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:26.600 are fascists who would have been marginalized in in not 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:29.480 just in the US kind of voices, but you know 0:09:29.640 --> 0:09:33.760 orbon and Nitan, Yahoo and on down. So we're just 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:36.480 seeing the rise of kind of a It just feels 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:40.080 like a dark force. You know, in general, that is 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:44.160 kind of a moment where kind of the safety nets 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:47.680 of having neighbors and communities just doesn't feel quite as 0:09:47.679 --> 0:09:50.600 safe as it dating twenty nineteen, and so I would 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.240 ask people, and maybe, you know, you could argue the 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:55.880 other way, like, oh, maybe I appreciate my community more, 0:09:56.080 --> 0:10:00.959 or my colleague here at work started like growing chickens 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:05.200 in his backyard and has we discovered farming and right 0:10:05.280 --> 0:10:08.120 now not a bad thing to have, like eggs for free. 0:10:09.080 --> 0:10:11.920 But so maybe it's the other thing that I would 0:10:11.920 --> 0:10:14.400 just ask people to do that exercise, right and to 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:16.800 think about what attitudes have changed. And it doesn't have 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:18.920 to be about welcome death. I mean think about how 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:24.920 different we might feel about work or about travel. I 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:28.280 am in my head as I'm talking, as we're talking, 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:30.679 like doing it. So I'm just like, I should just 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:34.320 say it out loud because one of the you know, 0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:37.200 I'm thinking, you know, a lot shifted in my own 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:40.600 personal life and in the world in general between twenty 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:44.400 nineteen and now. But one of the things that as 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:47.600 that has shifted but then continues to vacillate is my 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:53.080 relationship to work. Right where I know, and people will 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:57.199 laugh at this now, but like I used to work 0:10:57.360 --> 0:11:00.200 even more than I do now, Like it was just 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:03.880 there was no there was no downtime, there was no 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:07.400 off ramp. It was just the consistency of being a 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:11.920 hamster on a wheel all the time with the pandemic 0:11:11.960 --> 0:11:16.320 afforded for me and also my mother's illness in having 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:23.319 a benign brain tumor, was you know, the recognition of 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.760 there is other things that are important, right, and like 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:30.240 life is actually really fleeting and what am I racing 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.960 to get to right and missing in you know, in 0:11:35.000 --> 0:11:37.200 the intrem and I feel like a lot of people 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:43.360 have had that feeling right, And then what comes out 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:46.000 of that is these terms like quiet quitting and the 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:50.640 great resignation? Or is it that people recognize? And this 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.240 is funny, Jonathan. The other day, I see this meme 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:56.480 and it's been like it's gone viral since. Which is 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:00.560 the lie of midlife and what that age actually is? 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:04.120 Because if the average person, I think it, and it's 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:06.560 an average white person, because I believe that it's like 0:12:06.800 --> 0:12:11.160 seventy for black people. But if the average person lives 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:13.320 to be seventy eight, which is what I think, that 0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:17.760 life expectancy is now, then midlife is actually thirty six. 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:25.600 So if mid so if mid if midlife is actually 0:12:25.640 --> 0:12:29.360 like thirty six or thirty seven. And we're talking about 0:12:29.400 --> 0:12:34.199 working until retirement age, which is sixty five, you are 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:40.400 only actually affording yourself twelve years before you die, right, 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.320 And how we have this warped kind of how we've 0:12:44.320 --> 0:12:47.839 had this warped kind of sense and relationship to rest, 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:52.360 to ease to work and to leisure and family and 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.000 all of these things, and how people are kind of 0:12:55.040 --> 0:12:57.600 pulling back and saying, wait a minute, what if the 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:01.720 fuck am I actually doing? And think of the irony, right, 0:13:01.760 --> 0:13:04.760 because now the Republicans are, for example, in these in 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:09.679 what it's going to be a ridiculous debt ceiling crisis, 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:13.040 they're not just trying to get like social Security and Medicaid, 0:13:13.040 --> 0:13:16.920 but they're trying to push back the retirement age. And 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.600 so it's just weird that, I mean, again, these are 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:22.280 all these are all meta fights, right, but it's just 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:25.560 weird that we're pushing back the retirement age at a 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:30.199 time when like life expectancy is going down. So it's like, 0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:33.360 are you guys not seeing what's happening here? Like, but 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:36.800 they do. But I think like they do, right, Like 0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:39.560 they do see what's happening. They don't. It's the fact 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:42.600 that they don't care, right, Like people are just parts 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.840 to be replaced, like pieces of a car that don't 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:49.120 work anymore, right right, It's in a way it just 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:51.800 fits into this narrative that we're telling here about the 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:55.720 kind of disposability of life, which is such a deep 0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:00.959 it's just, you know, we didn't I don't know. There's 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:04.680 a forum that used to be great called Twitter, and 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:07.520 now it's just full of random crap for the most part. 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:13.040 But I've been scrolling through just really for the Jonathan 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:17.199 k Part soul Train video clips in the morning and 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:21.320 for like random music video clips. Somebody there's this little 0:14:21.320 --> 0:14:23.880 guy who's saying, ain't nobody going to break my stride? 0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:26.200 And it was like a music video and everybody was 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:30.000 like dancing and doing all this stuff, and I just thought, like, man, 0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.800 the eighties were so great, like we had no cares 0:14:32.840 --> 0:14:36.400 in the world, like you know, and I don't know, 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:38.720 we just live in a very heavy time right now. 0:14:38.760 --> 0:14:41.960 It's not like we're doing soul Train or music video. 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:43.680 I mean we are maybe or something like that, but 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.640 it's just there's nothing. There's nothing outside of politics right now. 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.160 There's nothing outside of this anxiety. Even when we try 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.640 to create those spaces, it's kind of what it feels 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:54.720 like a lot of times. And so no wonder people 0:14:54.720 --> 0:14:58.720 are taking a XANX or whatever. It's not like that's 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:02.640 a issue. And you know, maybe this will lead to 0:15:03.200 --> 0:15:07.480 some societal changes one hundred years from now. Maybe the 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:10.960 old structure that we have put in place here just 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:16.080 wasn't working, or maybe countries with like I mean, strong 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:19.360 strong men are going to come out ahead and dominate 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:21.760 everybody else and we're back to like Attila the Hun 0:15:21.880 --> 0:15:25.400 and Genghis Khan days or something. Who knows, But it 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.840 does feel like our planet is in the middle of 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:32.240 a kind of transformation right now, and it's just hard 0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:36.200 to it's a hard scope to understand. But it's just 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:38.720 not I guess what I'm saying is like it's we're 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.160 beyond a therapy issue, even though people should get there 0:15:41.200 --> 0:15:43.560 for right, great, but they're bigger forces and so people 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.080 shouldn't feel like they're crazy for feeling and subtled all 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.360 the time. But that's like I want to stay on 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:51.880 that for a second, because that's the thing is that 0:15:52.240 --> 0:15:55.800 I've been having. You know, last last week I had 0:15:55.880 --> 0:16:00.880 on UM my friend author and podcast Sir Jennifer tub 0:16:01.320 --> 0:16:05.920 and we ended up having what was not at its 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.480 core a political conversation, which is what I was having 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:11.400 her on to talk about white collar crime and all 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.960 of these things, and it ended up being a are 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:19.880 you okay? You know conversation, And what we pulled out 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:24.440 of that was just like, actually, no, right, Like, I 0:16:24.480 --> 0:16:26.680 feel like I'm doing all of the things that I 0:16:26.720 --> 0:16:30.320 should be doing, meditating, working out, going on walks, connecting 0:16:30.320 --> 0:16:33.560 with family and friends. But if I actually drilled down, no, 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:37.760 I actually don't feel okay. I feel deeply unsettled. I 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.680 feel deeply unnerved. I feel a deep sense of worry 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:46.160 and dread. And so if we know that so many 0:16:46.240 --> 0:16:50.440 people are saying and feeling that, and my therapist says 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.400 the same thing, She's like, no, no, like, I see 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:57.920 more people now, and it's more conversations about the collective, 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:03.280 the collective experience and not just these individualized like issues. 0:17:04.000 --> 0:17:07.920 So then what, like, what is the way to feel 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:14.160 better if we don't want to pop xanax because nobody 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:17.800 wants to, like, because we're seeing the effects of what 0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:22.520 has happened for this long standing practice of just prescribing, 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:27.159 prescribing prescribing. Then it has increased addiction, and then suicide 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:29.560 rates go up, and it's just like we're in this 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:33.720 awful fucking tornado. Well, I mean, I can just say 0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:37.440 psychiatry has been put in a position of being asked 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:41.480 to treat issues that it only just to say it 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:44.600 doesn't even scratch the surface of what's happening as an understatement. 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:47.960 So certainly, I think anybody who needs help should get it, 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:50.400 and there are mechanisms for help, and I do think 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:55.960 therapy and medication in the right instance can be really important. 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.840 But I would also say that therapy is not a 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:05.159 treatment for like global geopolitical angst. You know, we just 0:18:05.200 --> 0:18:08.359 got to what we're feeling right now, um, And so 0:18:08.680 --> 0:18:11.639 I just think, you know, I think you're exactly right that, like, 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:14.760 for example, the Great Resignation, it's almost a way of 0:18:14.800 --> 0:18:17.760 people saying in the old ways not working for me anymore, 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:20.920 and I need to like pay attention. But then then 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:23.359 what is working that kind of it's kind of the right, 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.800 and and it's very unsettling, Like our world was built 0:18:28.800 --> 0:18:31.800 on a series of relationships that we just took for 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:37.359 granted about supply chain and the flow of goods and 0:18:37.400 --> 0:18:40.960 information and safety that have just been shown to be 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:46.199 much more fallible and kind of up for grabs than 0:18:46.240 --> 0:18:50.720 we ever realized. And so I just think that it's 0:18:50.720 --> 0:18:53.960 just causing different kinds of responses, and in a way 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:56.920 it's on the flip side, I think it's also why 0:18:56.920 --> 0:19:03.240 you're seeing more people gravitate toward politicians who, I mean, 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:08.320 try floating some one of these fascist dictators. Ten years ago, 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:10.879 people would have just said, you know, no, we we 0:19:11.320 --> 0:19:14.320 vote for society for the most part. I mean not 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:20.080 that that as in the case. But now people want dad, 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:23.840 they want protection, they want to feel like, you know, 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:25.960 that kind of thing. So in a way, it's not 0:19:26.080 --> 0:19:29.159 it's not surprising that we're seeing a return to a 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:35.200 kind of like strongman strongman politics that I think is important. 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:37.399 And I also really think it's important to be honest 0:19:37.440 --> 0:19:41.280 for Democrats to pay attention to in terms of what 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:43.760 they're going to be up against in twenty twenty four 0:19:46.200 --> 0:19:49.399 with the way the GOP is going to play this, 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.200 which is, you know it's going to be maybe Trump 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:56.000 but de Santis and Pompeio and all these guys who 0:19:56.040 --> 0:19:58.520 kind of fit the mold of this deep need right 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:02.520 now of like need somebody bossy to kick the acid 0:20:02.520 --> 0:20:05.800 of their side and protect us. And not saying the 0:20:05.800 --> 0:20:09.280 Democrats should like run a fascist white guy of their own, 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:13.199 but I would say that they should be prepared for 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:15.600 the kind of arguments that worked in twenty twenty not 0:20:15.720 --> 0:20:20.960 to work in twenty twenty four. I'm listening to everything 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:22.639 that you're saying, and I'm like, oh my god, this 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:27.920 is absolutely right, Like this is why you It's it's 0:20:28.040 --> 0:20:31.800 like you're walking in the desert and you're just looking 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:34.960 at the mirage and you're going to as in my 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:38.280 favorite movie, the American President said, you will. You know, 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:41.520 people are so desperate for leadership that they will drink 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:45.080 the sand right like, And that is that is what's happening. 0:20:45.119 --> 0:20:47.800 That is what maga is, that is what Trumpism is, 0:20:47.840 --> 0:20:51.400 that is what global fascism is about. It's that I 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:55.720 feel like I have no control over my own life, 0:20:55.760 --> 0:21:00.360 over my own happenings, and maybe somebody from on high 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:04.119 can get control and put things back in order in 0:21:04.160 --> 0:21:08.320 a way that makes sense for me. And also if 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:13.320 somebody can't do that. You hate them, right, you despise them. 0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:15.840 I'm not saying you, I'm saying you're in general and 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:19.359 so weak. It's not a moment for like weakness. Unfortunately, 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:22.600 and the Israeli left did not understand this. They thought 0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:25.200 that democracy was going to hold and it was a 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:30.879 grave miscalculation. The elections, you name it anyway, anywhere this 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:35.560 is happening, you know, India, Hungary, Pakistan. I mean it's 0:21:35.560 --> 0:21:39.320 a moment where people are kind of gravitating toward we 0:21:39.359 --> 0:21:44.560 want the protection of a feudal lord. And so for 0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:48.119 Democrats they should be thinking, like, is Biden that person 0:21:48.200 --> 0:21:50.679 right now? Who's going to be able to stand up 0:21:50.680 --> 0:21:54.359 to that? Or should they find I don't know, but 0:21:55.600 --> 0:22:00.160 what does But like, in all honesty, what does stand 0:22:00.280 --> 0:22:03.280 up to that? Look like you're talking about a you're 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:10.399 talking about a collective global sense of lack of control, access, 0:22:10.520 --> 0:22:13.760 you know, safety and all of these things. What is 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:18.080 the opposite of that? It isn't so if if if 0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:22.040 the right is about restoring the good old days of 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:26.439 Jim Crow and the good old days of of of 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:30.359 patriarchy and women being you know, shackled to their stove 0:22:30.400 --> 0:22:33.680 in their kitchen, with mother's helper in their in their 0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:36.080 apron If that is the good old days that they 0:22:36.080 --> 0:22:39.359 are harkening back to, that people are gravitating to white 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:43.520 people are gravitating to, then what is the alternative because 0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:46.440 it's not the we're all in this together and like 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:51.000 can fix it, because that's what Obama offered. Yeah, I 0:22:51.280 --> 0:22:54.760 think a very clear counter narrative that has a very 0:22:54.760 --> 0:23:00.359 clear direct plan that is material and direct. Me, that 0:23:00.359 --> 0:23:03.520 would be my sense. I'm not a political strategist in 0:23:03.560 --> 0:23:07.120 any way, but I would just say that I would 0:23:07.160 --> 0:23:11.119 just say that it's just interesting with Maga, right, I was, 0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:12.760 I've been thinking about this all that recently, Like it 0:23:12.840 --> 0:23:15.520 was just some crap Trump made up like in twenty fifteen, 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:18.760 right or whatever, and it's become like a moniker for 0:23:18.960 --> 0:23:21.760 a movement that it's just weird that maga is still 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:24.359 even a phrase, right. I Mean, it was just some 0:23:24.480 --> 0:23:26.400 stupid stuff in the hat and when we first all 0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:29.600 heard it, we were like huh, you know, And now 0:23:29.680 --> 0:23:33.680 it's like the Maga movement is a term that's used 0:23:33.840 --> 0:23:36.720 all the time right to describe this, and so the 0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:40.760 Democrats kind of need a brand right now that that 0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:44.640 I think counters it, but has some kind of clearly 0:23:44.760 --> 0:23:49.840 articulated vision. You know, if we could, um, you know, 0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:54.840 resurrect General Norman Schwartz Coop or somebody like that, you know, 0:23:55.600 --> 0:23:58.760 I mean, I just I like, I'm failing to see 0:23:59.560 --> 0:24:04.080 what the what the brand is to combat global anxiety 0:24:04.200 --> 0:24:09.200 and fear that is actually steeped in real shit. Like 0:24:09.280 --> 0:24:13.680 the difference between MAGA and the collective anxiety that people 0:24:13.680 --> 0:24:18.280 who live on Earth one are facing is the the 0:24:20.640 --> 0:24:25.200 implosion of Earth climate change that is like out of control, 0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:29.840 mass shootings that are happening like every like multiple times 0:24:29.840 --> 0:24:33.399 a week. You know, inflation that is out of control. 0:24:33.440 --> 0:24:36.120 I'm going to the grocery store and everything is up 0:24:36.200 --> 0:24:41.200 by you know, by five and six and seven percent, right, 0:24:41.480 --> 0:24:46.680 So like these are real concrete things that are out 0:24:46.760 --> 0:24:51.280 of control that you don't actually have control over. And 0:24:51.359 --> 0:24:54.639 so I don't know what the counter argument is to 0:24:54.760 --> 0:24:58.240 one that says I alone can fix this, and you 0:24:58.400 --> 0:25:02.480 just wanting the eye a lone person, even if you 0:25:02.560 --> 0:25:04.600 know that they're full of shit. You want to be 0:25:04.720 --> 0:25:07.880 lied to in this moment. And the thing with Democrats 0:25:07.960 --> 0:25:11.120 is that we don't actually lie in that way. They 0:25:11.200 --> 0:25:13.359 lie about other things, but they're not going to lie 0:25:13.400 --> 0:25:16.160 to you about the reality of the situation and say 0:25:16.240 --> 0:25:18.960 all is going to be okay. And if people want 0:25:19.000 --> 0:25:23.359 to be lied to, right, because the alternative is like 0:25:23.480 --> 0:25:27.760 either I numb myself with xanax or I numb myself 0:25:27.840 --> 0:25:30.840 with the lies of Trump. No one wants to feel 0:25:31.359 --> 0:25:34.400 the reality of what this moment is. Well, I mean, 0:25:34.440 --> 0:25:36.920 but what we know what this moment is in terms 0:25:36.960 --> 0:25:41.560