1 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to will gay f Daily 2 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: with Meet Your Girl Daniel Moody, recording from the Home Bunker, Folks, 3 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: Today's conversation with our faith in house doctor, doctor Jonathan 4 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 1: Metzel is one that I think is needed. We are 5 00:00:28,120 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: living at the intersections of so many causes for anxiety, 6 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,680 Speaker 1: for worry, for stress, and I don't think that we 7 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: are talking about these issues like mass shootings happening multiple 8 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:45,239 Speaker 1: times a week and you know, temperatures being recorded in 9 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 1: places that are well above or below normal, that we 10 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:53,720 Speaker 1: are really talking about the fact that people, our lives 11 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: have been upended since twenty nineteen, and what that really 12 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,680 Speaker 1: means as a collective right, not just on an individual basis, 13 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 1: and that we're looking and searching for things to bring 14 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 1: us stability and make us feel quote unquote normal, whatever 15 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:13,120 Speaker 1: the fuck that looks like. And so today it's conversation 16 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: with Jonathan kind of moves in the same way that 17 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:20,480 Speaker 1: my conversation last week with Jennifer Tobb did, which is, 18 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,120 Speaker 1: you know, how are we all really doing and what 19 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: are the methods in ways that we can deal with 20 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: the very real reality that there's a lot of incredibly 21 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:36,560 Speaker 1: wild shit that continues to happen, and it feels some 22 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 1: days that you're trying to walk through a Category five 23 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 1: hurricane right and head to work right like that's normal, 24 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: and just be able to continue to go about your 25 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: regular day to day as if there is in catastrophe 26 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: literally lurking around every corner, at every gas station, at 27 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 1: every dance studio, at every school, place of worship, what 28 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: have you. And so we get into a really good 29 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 1: conversation also about a documentary that I watched called Take 30 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 1: Your Pills XANAX on Netflix that is about this trend 31 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: in numbing and how it has risen over the past 32 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 1: several years by astronomical numbers. So coming up next, dear friends, 33 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 1: my conversation with our good, good doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel. Folks, 34 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: you know that whenever we have the opportunity to talk 35 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: with our in house doctor, doctor Jonathan Metzel, I am 36 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: always thrilled because we have so many issues that are 37 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: facing the country, Jonathan. And you know, as everyone was 38 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:58,000 Speaker 1: alerted over the weekend, New York Times ding ding over 39 00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 1: everyone's phone. Even though I try not to watch the 40 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: news and take a little bit of a break, mass 41 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:10,720 Speaker 1: shooting takes place, killing now eleven people in California before 42 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 1: we can even get the names down of the people 43 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 1: that have died in that tragic mass shooting, another mass 44 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: shooting happens in California, killing seven people. And in the 45 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: midst of all of that, I'm trying to really understand 46 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: how we are all managing and coping with the times 47 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: that we are living in. And so I found myself scrolling, 48 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: you know, through Netflix, looking at documentaries because that's what 49 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: I do on Netflix, and I came across one called 50 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: Take Your Pills zanex and you know, it's a whole 51 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 1: documentary about the rise of zanex. Use the you know, 52 00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 1: it talks about COVID, it talks about anxiety with Generation C, 53 00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 1: it talks about all of these things. And so I 54 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: just like, are we missing the conversation, which is the correlation, Jonathan, 55 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: between what we are being forced to consider as normal 56 00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:15,280 Speaker 1: in our society, in our day to day and then 57 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 1: the availability of prescription drugs that are essentially meant to 58 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:27,599 Speaker 1: numb and that is what people need in order to 59 00:04:27,640 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: get through. Like, are we missing We're having all of 60 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 1: these separate conversations and I'm asking, are we missing the integration? 61 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,200 Speaker 1: It's it's it's just think of the moment we're living in. 62 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 1: We're living in a state of such constant stress, and 63 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,839 Speaker 1: it was always the case, but the pandemic has really 64 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: brought this, I think, into the light in a way 65 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 1: that I think we just have never coped with before. 66 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 1: You know, I teach this big class COVID and society, 67 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: hundreds of students in the class, and the first exercise 68 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,280 Speaker 1: we always do is I asked them go back to 69 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: your pre pandemic self, whoever that was, and tell yourself, 70 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:10,840 Speaker 1: then something you know now that you didn't You didn't 71 00:05:10,839 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 1: know that. Wow. Like percent of the students will say 72 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 1: life as much, you know, life and change or end 73 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,280 Speaker 1: for you or somebody you know, or for society. So 74 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 1: just before, like I just think people, I think people 75 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: really feel like the students often say, we just took 76 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 1: so many things for granted before, and not that it's 77 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: just COVID, but you know, think of all the things 78 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 1: we've had happened since COVID, George Floyd and war and 79 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,119 Speaker 1: all these other things, and it just feels like there's 80 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 1: just stories and what we do, what we do as 81 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:52,200 Speaker 1: a species to protect ourselves. A lot of times in 82 00:05:52,240 --> 00:05:55,520 Speaker 1: the face of this, which is we habituate, we normalize, 83 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: That's kind of what we've done. And so just the 84 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: amount of stress. I just feel like we were living 85 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,120 Speaker 1: in a way that just wasn't aware of mortality in 86 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:05,280 Speaker 1: a way that I think the pandemic really brought it 87 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: into focus. And some people responded to that by storming 88 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: the capital. Some people responded to that by wanting to 89 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: hang Fauci or blame China. Some people responded that more 90 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 1: many more people responded to that by just internalizing this 91 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 1: kind of sense of existential dread. And so I just 92 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: think that we're living in a moment where like life 93 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: can change at any moment, and the pandemic it's not 94 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: just oh, it's just because of COVID by itself, it's also, 95 00:06:35,480 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: you know, it just feels like things are happening. And 96 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:43,279 Speaker 1: I see this even with these mass shootings that you know, 97 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: everybody's like it didn't get the media attention it deserved, 98 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 1: and it didn't get the media attention it deserved, but 99 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:51,360 Speaker 1: then there was another mass shooting like the next day. 100 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,280 Speaker 1: But also it's just that we're living with this kind 101 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: of sense that something can happen in any moment, and 102 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 1: I think that that is really really profoundly taking its 103 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: tool on people and the mental health world for all 104 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: that it's been trying to do, just cannot conceivably conceivably 105 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: keep up with that, you know, talk to me about 106 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: the fact that we are all collectively experiencing the fact 107 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: that anything can happen at any moment, can change at 108 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:25,680 Speaker 1: any moment. Because you know, many people would say, well, 109 00:07:25,720 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: that's life, right, like you can get hit by a car, 110 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,440 Speaker 1: you can you know, somebody can have a heart attack 111 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:36,240 Speaker 1: and drop dead. What is it that is unique to 112 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: the experience that we are having now that has us 113 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: all at this place of what I am saying is 114 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:48,200 Speaker 1: high alert, right, Like this high alert which is causing 115 00:07:48,280 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: this high anxiety that never abates. And so how is 116 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: that different? And I think that your question is a 117 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: really good one. So if you could dig in between 118 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, right and and and just and and I'll 119 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,040 Speaker 1: move us not to twenty twenty, but twenty nineteen to 120 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: twenty twenty three where we are, how is it, you know, 121 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: and how is it different than our understanding of mortality 122 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: and how that has shifted. It's not just consciously paying 123 00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: attention to like life and death. It's kind of like 124 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 1: a global sense. And I would just ask people watching this, 125 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: like do that exercise yourself. And it's not just about 126 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,480 Speaker 1: oh I feel like I could die at any moment. 127 00:08:33,720 --> 00:08:36,440 Speaker 1: It's also think of all the other attitudes that have 128 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:39,920 Speaker 1: changed as a result of just the knowledge that there 129 00:08:39,920 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 1: could be a global pandemic or that we're seeing. I mean, 130 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 1: we've we've had so many mass shootings. It's January. We're 131 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: averaging like the highest number of mass shootings ever in 132 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: recorded history. Um right now, like one point six mass 133 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 1: shootings a day in this country. That all the you know, 134 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 1: Russia invading Ukraine up ended the kind of social contract 135 00:09:06,280 --> 00:09:08,560 Speaker 1: that we've had in place for many people's lives since 136 00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,560 Speaker 1: World War Two about national borders et cetera, et cetera, 137 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:16,160 Speaker 1: et cetera. So it was just a moment, and it's 138 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,200 Speaker 1: also a moment where a lot of bad guys seem 139 00:09:20,280 --> 00:09:22,240 Speaker 1: to be winning. You know, a lot of people who 140 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 1: are fascists who would have been marginalized in in not 141 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 1: just in the US kind of voices, but you know 142 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: orbon and Nitan, Yahoo and on down. So we're just 143 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: seeing the rise of kind of a It just feels 144 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: like a dark force. You know, in general, that is 145 00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 1: kind of a moment where kind of the safety nets 146 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 1: of having neighbors and communities just doesn't feel quite as 147 00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 1: safe as it dating twenty nineteen, and so I would 148 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: ask people, and maybe, you know, you could argue the 149 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 1: other way, like, oh, maybe I appreciate my community more, 150 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 1: or my colleague here at work started like growing chickens 151 00:10:00,960 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 1: in his backyard and has we discovered farming and right 152 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: now not a bad thing to have, like eggs for free. 153 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: But so maybe it's the other thing that I would 154 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: just ask people to do that exercise, right and to 155 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: think about what attitudes have changed. And it doesn't have 156 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:18,920 Speaker 1: to be about welcome death. I mean think about how 157 00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: different we might feel about work or about travel. I 158 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:28,280 Speaker 1: am in my head as I'm talking, as we're talking, 159 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:30,679 Speaker 1: like doing it. So I'm just like, I should just 160 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 1: say it out loud because one of the you know, 161 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:37,200 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, you know, a lot shifted in my own 162 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: personal life and in the world in general between twenty 163 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: nineteen and now. But one of the things that as 164 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: that has shifted but then continues to vacillate is my 165 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:53,080 Speaker 1: relationship to work. Right where I know, and people will 166 00:10:53,160 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 1: laugh at this now, but like I used to work 167 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,200 Speaker 1: even more than I do now, Like it was just 168 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: there was no there was no downtime, there was no 169 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,400 Speaker 1: off ramp. It was just the consistency of being a 170 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: hamster on a wheel all the time with the pandemic 171 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: afforded for me and also my mother's illness in having 172 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 1: a benign brain tumor, was you know, the recognition of 173 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: there is other things that are important, right, and like 174 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,240 Speaker 1: life is actually really fleeting and what am I racing 175 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 1: to get to right and missing in you know, in 176 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,200 Speaker 1: the intrem and I feel like a lot of people 177 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: have had that feeling right, And then what comes out 178 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:46,000 Speaker 1: of that is these terms like quiet quitting and the 179 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 1: great resignation? Or is it that people recognize? And this 180 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,240 Speaker 1: is funny, Jonathan. The other day, I see this meme 181 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:56,480 Speaker 1: and it's been like it's gone viral since. Which is 182 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 1: the lie of midlife and what that age actually is? 183 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,120 Speaker 1: Because if the average person, I think it, and it's 184 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,560 Speaker 1: an average white person, because I believe that it's like 185 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: seventy for black people. But if the average person lives 186 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 1: to be seventy eight, which is what I think, that 187 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 1: life expectancy is now, then midlife is actually thirty six. 188 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: So if mid so if mid if midlife is actually 189 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: like thirty six or thirty seven. And we're talking about 190 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:34,199 Speaker 1: working until retirement age, which is sixty five, you are 191 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: only actually affording yourself twelve years before you die, right, 192 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: And how we have this warped kind of how we've 193 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:47,839 Speaker 1: had this warped kind of sense and relationship to rest, 194 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 1: to ease to work and to leisure and family and 195 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,000 Speaker 1: all of these things, and how people are kind of 196 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: pulling back and saying, wait a minute, what if the 197 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:01,720 Speaker 1: fuck am I actually doing? And think of the irony, right, 198 00:13:01,760 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: because now the Republicans are, for example, in these in 199 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 1: what it's going to be a ridiculous debt ceiling crisis, 200 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: they're not just trying to get like social Security and Medicaid, 201 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,920 Speaker 1: but they're trying to push back the retirement age. And 202 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,600 Speaker 1: so it's just weird that, I mean, again, these are 203 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 1: all these are all meta fights, right, but it's just 204 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:25,560 Speaker 1: weird that we're pushing back the retirement age at a 205 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:30,199 Speaker 1: time when like life expectancy is going down. So it's like, 206 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 1: are you guys not seeing what's happening here? Like, but 207 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,800 Speaker 1: they do. But I think like they do, right, Like 208 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,560 Speaker 1: they do see what's happening. They don't. It's the fact 209 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,600 Speaker 1: that they don't care, right, Like people are just parts 210 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: to be replaced, like pieces of a car that don't 211 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 1: work anymore, right right, It's in a way it just 212 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: fits into this narrative that we're telling here about the 213 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:55,720 Speaker 1: kind of disposability of life, which is such a deep 214 00:13:56,520 --> 00:14:00,959 Speaker 1: it's just, you know, we didn't I don't know. There's 215 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,680 Speaker 1: a forum that used to be great called Twitter, and 216 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 1: now it's just full of random crap for the most part. 217 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: But I've been scrolling through just really for the Jonathan 218 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,199 Speaker 1: k Part soul Train video clips in the morning and 219 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: for like random music video clips. Somebody there's this little 220 00:14:21,320 --> 00:14:23,880 Speaker 1: guy who's saying, ain't nobody going to break my stride? 221 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: And it was like a music video and everybody was 222 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:30,000 Speaker 1: like dancing and doing all this stuff, and I just thought, like, man, 223 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: the eighties were so great, like we had no cares 224 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:36,400 Speaker 1: in the world, like you know, and I don't know, 225 00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: we just live in a very heavy time right now. 226 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 1: It's not like we're doing soul Train or music video. 227 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: I mean we are maybe or something like that, but 228 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 1: it's just there's nothing. There's nothing outside of politics right now. 229 00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 1: There's nothing outside of this anxiety. Even when we try 230 00:14:50,160 --> 00:14:52,640 Speaker 1: to create those spaces, it's kind of what it feels 231 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: like a lot of times. And so no wonder people 232 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: are taking a XANX or whatever. It's not like that's 233 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: a issue. And you know, maybe this will lead to 234 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: some societal changes one hundred years from now. Maybe the 235 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: old structure that we have put in place here just 236 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: wasn't working, or maybe countries with like I mean, strong 237 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: strong men are going to come out ahead and dominate 238 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,760 Speaker 1: everybody else and we're back to like Attila the Hun 239 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: and Genghis Khan days or something. Who knows, But it 240 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: does feel like our planet is in the middle of 241 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,240 Speaker 1: a kind of transformation right now, and it's just hard 242 00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:36,200 Speaker 1: to it's a hard scope to understand. But it's just 243 00:15:36,240 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: not I guess what I'm saying is like it's we're 244 00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:41,160 Speaker 1: beyond a therapy issue, even though people should get there 245 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: for right, great, but they're bigger forces and so people 246 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 1: shouldn't feel like they're crazy for feeling and subtled all 247 00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: the time. But that's like I want to stay on 248 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: that for a second, because that's the thing is that 249 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 1: I've been having. You know, last last week I had 250 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: on UM my friend author and podcast Sir Jennifer tub 251 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: and we ended up having what was not at its 252 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: core a political conversation, which is what I was having 253 00:16:09,480 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: her on to talk about white collar crime and all 254 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: of these things, and it ended up being a are 255 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 1: you okay? You know conversation, And what we pulled out 256 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:24,440 Speaker 1: of that was just like, actually, no, right, Like, I 257 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: feel like I'm doing all of the things that I 258 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 1: should be doing, meditating, working out, going on walks, connecting 259 00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: with family and friends. But if I actually drilled down, no, 260 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: I actually don't feel okay. I feel deeply unsettled. I 261 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 1: feel deeply unnerved. I feel a deep sense of worry 262 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: and dread. And so if we know that so many 263 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: people are saying and feeling that, and my therapist says 264 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: the same thing, She's like, no, no, like, I see 265 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: more people now, and it's more conversations about the collective, 266 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: the collective experience and not just these individualized like issues. 267 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: So then what, like, what is the way to feel 268 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: better if we don't want to pop xanax because nobody 269 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 1: wants to, like, because we're seeing the effects of what 270 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: has happened for this long standing practice of just prescribing, 271 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:27,159 Speaker 1: prescribing prescribing. Then it has increased addiction, and then suicide 272 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: rates go up, and it's just like we're in this 273 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: awful fucking tornado. Well, I mean, I can just say 274 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: psychiatry has been put in a position of being asked 275 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: to treat issues that it only just to say it 276 00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: doesn't even scratch the surface of what's happening as an understatement. 277 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: So certainly, I think anybody who needs help should get it, 278 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,400 Speaker 1: and there are mechanisms for help, and I do think 279 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: therapy and medication in the right instance can be really important. 280 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: But I would also say that therapy is not a 281 00:18:00,280 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 1: treatment for like global geopolitical angst. You know, we just 282 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: got to what we're feeling right now, um, And so 283 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:11,639 Speaker 1: I just think, you know, I think you're exactly right that, like, 284 00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: for example, the Great Resignation, it's almost a way of 285 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: people saying in the old ways not working for me anymore, 286 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: and I need to like pay attention. But then then 287 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: what is working that kind of it's kind of the right, 288 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: and and it's very unsettling, Like our world was built 289 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: on a series of relationships that we just took for 290 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:37,359 Speaker 1: granted about supply chain and the flow of goods and 291 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: information and safety that have just been shown to be 292 00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:46,199 Speaker 1: much more fallible and kind of up for grabs than 293 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:50,720 Speaker 1: we ever realized. And so I just think that it's 294 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: just causing different kinds of responses, and in a way 295 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:56,920 Speaker 1: it's on the flip side, I think it's also why 296 00:18:56,920 --> 00:19:03,240 Speaker 1: you're seeing more people gravitate toward politicians who, I mean, 297 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: try floating some one of these fascist dictators. Ten years ago, 298 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:10,879 Speaker 1: people would have just said, you know, no, we we 299 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 1: vote for society for the most part. I mean not 300 00:19:14,359 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: that that as in the case. But now people want dad, 301 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 1: they want protection, they want to feel like, you know, 302 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 1: that kind of thing. So in a way, it's not 303 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: it's not surprising that we're seeing a return to a 304 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: kind of like strongman strongman politics that I think is important. 305 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 1: And I also really think it's important to be honest 306 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: for Democrats to pay attention to in terms of what 307 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: they're going to be up against in twenty twenty four 308 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: with the way the GOP is going to play this, 309 00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: which is, you know it's going to be maybe Trump 310 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: but de Santis and Pompeio and all these guys who 311 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: kind of fit the mold of this deep need right 312 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: now of like need somebody bossy to kick the acid 313 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 1: of their side and protect us. And not saying the 314 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:09,280 Speaker 1: Democrats should like run a fascist white guy of their own, 315 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,199 Speaker 1: but I would say that they should be prepared for 316 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 1: the kind of arguments that worked in twenty twenty not 317 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:20,960 Speaker 1: to work in twenty twenty four. I'm listening to everything 318 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: that you're saying, and I'm like, oh my god, this 319 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:27,920 Speaker 1: is absolutely right, Like this is why you It's it's 320 00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:31,800 Speaker 1: like you're walking in the desert and you're just looking 321 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: at the mirage and you're going to as in my 322 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 1: favorite movie, the American President said, you will. You know, 323 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: people are so desperate for leadership that they will drink 324 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:45,080 Speaker 1: the sand right like, And that is that is what's happening. 325 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:47,800 Speaker 1: That is what maga is, that is what Trumpism is, 326 00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 1: that is what global fascism is about. It's that I 327 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: feel like I have no control over my own life, 328 00:20:55,760 --> 00:21:00,360 Speaker 1: over my own happenings, and maybe somebody from on high 329 00:21:00,760 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: can get control and put things back in order in 330 00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: a way that makes sense for me. And also if 331 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:13,320 Speaker 1: somebody can't do that. You hate them, right, you despise them. 332 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: I'm not saying you, I'm saying you're in general and 333 00:21:15,880 --> 00:21:19,359 Speaker 1: so weak. It's not a moment for like weakness. Unfortunately, 334 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:22,600 Speaker 1: and the Israeli left did not understand this. They thought 335 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: that democracy was going to hold and it was a 336 00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: grave miscalculation. The elections, you name it anyway, anywhere this 337 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,560 Speaker 1: is happening, you know, India, Hungary, Pakistan. I mean it's 338 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 1: a moment where people are kind of gravitating toward we 339 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 1: want the protection of a feudal lord. And so for 340 00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: Democrats they should be thinking, like, is Biden that person 341 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,679 Speaker 1: right now? Who's going to be able to stand up 342 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: to that? Or should they find I don't know, but 343 00:21:55,600 --> 00:22:00,160 Speaker 1: what does But like, in all honesty, what does stand 344 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 1: up to that? Look like you're talking about a you're 345 00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 1: talking about a collective global sense of lack of control, access, 346 00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: you know, safety and all of these things. What is 347 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 1: the opposite of that? It isn't so if if if 348 00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 1: the right is about restoring the good old days of 349 00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:26,439 Speaker 1: Jim Crow and the good old days of of of 350 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: patriarchy and women being you know, shackled to their stove 351 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,680 Speaker 1: in their kitchen, with mother's helper in their in their 352 00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,080 Speaker 1: apron If that is the good old days that they 353 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,359 Speaker 1: are harkening back to, that people are gravitating to white 354 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,520 Speaker 1: people are gravitating to, then what is the alternative because 355 00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,440 Speaker 1: it's not the we're all in this together and like 356 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:51,000 Speaker 1: can fix it, because that's what Obama offered. Yeah, I 357 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,760 Speaker 1: think a very clear counter narrative that has a very 358 00:22:54,760 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: clear direct plan that is material and direct. Me, that 359 00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: would be my sense. I'm not a political strategist in 360 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,120 Speaker 1: any way, but I would just say that I would 361 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,119 Speaker 1: just say that it's just interesting with Maga, right, I was, 362 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about this all that recently, Like it 363 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: was just some crap Trump made up like in twenty fifteen, 364 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: right or whatever, and it's become like a moniker for 365 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 1: a movement that it's just weird that maga is still 366 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:24,359 Speaker 1: even a phrase, right. I Mean, it was just some 367 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 1: stupid stuff in the hat and when we first all 368 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 1: heard it, we were like huh, you know, And now 369 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:33,680 Speaker 1: it's like the Maga movement is a term that's used 370 00:23:33,840 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: all the time right to describe this, and so the 371 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,760 Speaker 1: Democrats kind of need a brand right now that that 372 00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:44,640 Speaker 1: I think counters it, but has some kind of clearly 373 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:49,840 Speaker 1: articulated vision. You know, if we could, um, you know, 374 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: resurrect General Norman Schwartz Coop or somebody like that, you know, 375 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: I mean, I just I like, I'm failing to see 376 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: what the what the brand is to combat global anxiety 377 00:24:04,200 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 1: and fear that is actually steeped in real shit. Like 378 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: the difference between MAGA and the collective anxiety that people 379 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:18,280 Speaker 1: who live on Earth one are facing is the the 380 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: implosion of Earth climate change that is like out of control, 381 00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: mass shootings that are happening like every like multiple times 382 00:24:29,840 --> 00:24:33,399 Speaker 1: a week. You know, inflation that is out of control. 383 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,120 Speaker 1: I'm going to the grocery store and everything is up 384 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: by you know, by five and six and seven percent, right, 385 00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 1: So like these are real concrete things that are out 386 00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:51,280 Speaker 1: of control that you don't actually have control over. And 387 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,639 Speaker 1: so I don't know what the counter argument is to 388 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: one that says I alone can fix this, and you 389 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 1: just wanting the eye a lone person, even if you 390 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,600 Speaker 1: know that they're full of shit. You want to be 391 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,880 Speaker 1: lied to in this moment. And the thing with Democrats 392 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:11,120 Speaker 1: is that we don't actually lie in that way. They 393 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: lie about other things, but they're not going to lie 394 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,160 Speaker 1: to you about the reality of the situation and say 395 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,960 Speaker 1: all is going to be okay. And if people want 396 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 1: to be lied to, right, because the alternative is like 397 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: either I numb myself with xanax or I numb myself 398 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 1: with the lies of Trump. No one wants to feel 399 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 1: the reality of what this moment is. Well, I mean, 400 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,920 Speaker 1: but what we know what this moment is in terms 401 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,560 Speaker 1: of this, right, we know that people are looking for paternalism, right, 402 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 1: this is a profoundly paternal moment. We know there's a 403 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 1: lot of populist anger about inequality, income inequality, so we 404 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: know there's a lot of uncertainty, so people are wanting 405 00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: to direct answers. We know there's a need to build 406 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: structures reward cooperation and disincentivized competition. And so it's not 407 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: like we don't know the script right now. And I 408 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: would just say that recognizing what the script is would 409 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: be like the first step toward trying to figure out 410 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 1: how to how to repute that. I mean, of course 411 00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:17,679 Speaker 1: we're not going to run our own Trump, but I 412 00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,360 Speaker 1: do think again, it's just really incumbent to not say, oh, well, 413 00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,680 Speaker 1: Biden beat Trump in twenty and therefore he can beat 414 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,120 Speaker 1: him in twenty twenty four. It's it's really a different 415 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: world right now. I mean, it is a profoundly different 416 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 1: world right now than it was in twenty twenty. And 417 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: so just recognizing this is I think a first step 418 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 1: toward just trying to figure out and it's not just 419 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:39,719 Speaker 1: about Democrats winning. Obviously, we're talking about the globe right now, 420 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: and really this is all going to end up. And 421 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:46,760 Speaker 1: maybe this is you know the movie Mars Attacks or 422 00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: all the all the movies where like society gets turned 423 00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:53,720 Speaker 1: down and then people rebuild it, or you know, who 424 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: knows where we're going? Who knows where we're going? I 425 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: mean again, I've I told you before, Like think about 426 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,120 Speaker 1: the guy in year three of the Hundred Years War 427 00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: who said, man, finally this thing's coming to an end, 428 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: but only history. You know, there's ninety seven more years, dude. 429 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: So it feels like what at the beginning of some 430 00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: big transformations right now about resources, about the planet, about power, 431 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: and so just that uncertainty. And I think the most 432 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,600 Speaker 1: important point, going back to your first point, is that 433 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,480 Speaker 1: people not feel gasolate by this, that it's okay to 434 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:32,040 Speaker 1: feel uncertain right now because there are forces that are 435 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: acting on us that are different than they were in 436 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: the Jonathan k Part Soul training clips where people could 437 00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: just boogie on down and have a good time. Yeah, 438 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: it's where we are living in extraordinarily wild times. And 439 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: I think that the best thing that our conversations have 440 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: been able to offer, Jonathan is that you're not alone 441 00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:03,880 Speaker 1: in feeling crazy and feeling scared and concerned. That there 442 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: are a whole host of people that are feeling exactly 443 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,880 Speaker 1: the same way and acknowledging it and talking about it 444 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:15,040 Speaker 1: is part of like unpacking it to not feel like 445 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: you're carrying that weight alone, Jonathan, as always, this is 446 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:25,320 Speaker 1: what this is turning into when I'm feeling a type 447 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:30,800 Speaker 1: of way. I appreciate you so so very much. Dear friends, 448 00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:40,200 Speaker 1: stay safe, take careybody. That is it for me today, 449 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: Dear friends on woke f as always, power to the 450 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: people and to all the people. Power, get woke and 451 00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 1: stay woke as fuck.