WEBVTT - Selects: The Unsolved Mystery Disappearance of the Sodder Children 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:03.560 M Hey everyone, it's me Josh, your old friend, and 0:00:03.640 --> 0:00:06.840 for this week's s Y s K Selects, I've chosen 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:10.880 our episode from two thousand sixteen, The Unsolved Mystery Disappearance 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:14.080 of the Sodder Children. Uh. It's a story, a very 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:18.360 tragic and sad one, but also incredibly enthralling about five 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:21.919 children who disappeared after a house fire on Christmas back 0:00:21.920 --> 0:00:25.840 in It's one of my all time favorite episodes, which 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:28.160 is why I'm choosing it as a select and I 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:36.159 hope you enjoy it as well. Welcome to Stuff You 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:44.800 Should Know, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, and 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:47.720 welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark and there's Charles 0:00:47.800 --> 0:00:50.800 W Chuck Bryant, Jerry's over there. So this is Stuff 0:00:50.800 --> 0:00:56.160 you should Unsolved Mysteries Edition. Yeah. Really, are you cool 0:00:56.160 --> 0:01:01.200 with us? No? I'm leaving. Yeah. I think it's great. Man. 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:04.280 I love me a good unsolved mystery. Yeah, and this 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:06.400 is super sad, So it's not like I love it 0:01:06.520 --> 0:01:10.720 and I think it's hysterical. I just I just like 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:17.520 unsolved mystery. What's a what's an hysterical unsolved mystery? Um? 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:19.760 Like I got pantsed in the second grade and I 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:23.240 don't know who did it. That's an hysterical unsolved mystery. 0:01:23.880 --> 0:01:26.440 It was just in line pants around the ankles turned 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:30.280 around and like everyone's like, did you just go with it? 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:33.560 And you're like, check it out, check me out him 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:37.240 in second grade. Yep, good for you. That never happened. 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:41.800 I made it up. Oh really yeah, it's called improv, buddy. 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:47.160 It's a craft so en scene and scene and seen. 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:51.000 Have we are established which one it is? Yeah? A 0:01:51.040 --> 0:01:56.480 few times and nope, it is Chuck. We are talking 0:01:56.520 --> 0:02:02.640 about a family called the Solders. Um, not the Soldiers right, 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:05.880 not the welding technique. No, the Solders. They are a 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:11.639 family out of Fayetteville, West Virginia, of Italian extraction, as 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:14.880 we'll see. Yes, and um, very much so. Like you said, 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:18.120 this is an unsolved mystery. They they they're family, just 0:02:18.440 --> 0:02:22.240 going along totally normally. Has turned into one of the 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:26.480 stranger unsolved mysteries in American history. Yeah, and certainly in 0:02:26.520 --> 0:02:29.600 West Virginia history. Oh definitely. And I should say I 0:02:30.440 --> 0:02:37.320 texted our friend Justin McElroy of the McElroy triplets. Well, 0:02:37.320 --> 0:02:42.200 they're not triplets, they're they're they're brothers. Oh yeah, my brother, 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:45.440 my brother and Me podcast because they are from West Virginia. 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:47.880 And as you'll see here, there's a very famous billboard 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:51.360 that we're going to talk about about this case. And 0:02:51.400 --> 0:02:53.280 I was like, hey, dude, do you ever do you 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.200 remember where you know seeing this thing? How far are 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:57.359 you from Fayettville? He said, just a couple of hours, 0:02:57.440 --> 0:02:59.679 he said, but I've never heard of that. And I 0:02:59.760 --> 0:03:02.840 was like, really, this seemed like the kind of cautionary 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:05.359 tale that would be whispered about all over West Virginia. 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:08.079 I could see that. But he said he never heard 0:03:08.080 --> 0:03:09.440 of it. And then he looked it up and said, 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.200 oh wow. And I said, I bet your dad knows 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:15.440 about it, and then he said he didn't. He didn't respond. 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:19.799 You didn't text him back? Answer me, No, that's right. 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:21.679 I am Facebook friends with his dad. That should have 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:24.600 SA yeah, ask him. Yeah, go go to the source. 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.520 That's right. So well, let's go back to the beginning, 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:35.000 Chuck back to that's right. That's when Georgiros, who would 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:39.760 become George sodder I, was born in Sardinia and came 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:42.480 to the US and nineteen o eight as a young 0:03:42.560 --> 0:03:44.920 lad of thirteen years old. Yeah, and he was a 0:03:44.920 --> 0:03:47.120 go getter. He really was so his. He had an 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:51.680 older brother who traveled with him from Sardinia to New York. Um. 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:53.960 I guess he was like, I don't want to do this, 0:03:54.160 --> 0:03:55.840 and right when they made it through Ellis Island, he 0:03:55.880 --> 0:03:58.200 turned right back around and went back to Italy. Yeah, 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:00.040 he's I don't know, man, Go get a cup of 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.280 coffee and think it over, is what I say. After 0:04:02.280 --> 0:04:05.320 you made that ship's voyage, just mull it over for 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:07.720 a day or two. Yeah, because what if, like you're 0:04:07.760 --> 0:04:11.000 halfway back, you're like, actually I should have stayed. Yeah, 0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:13.560 you might meet a pretty lady from Brooklyn. Did you 0:04:13.560 --> 0:04:19.760 see that movie Brooklyn? No? Great? Really? Yeah? Yeah, okay, 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:22.880 I mean it will check it out. You sound it surprised. 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:25.479 I was a little surprised. Yeah. It was nominated for 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:28.920 many awards. Yeah that doesn't always mean. It usually means 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:33.480 it's pretty good. No, it depens. Okay, Brooklyn highly recommended 0:04:34.000 --> 0:04:37.480 about young Italian man who falls in love with an 0:04:37.480 --> 0:04:40.440 Irish immigrant. Oh well, this has nothing to do with 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:42.720 this thing. No, not at all, because this man falls 0:04:42.760 --> 0:04:47.320 in love with an Italian immigrant. That's right, right, So, um, George, 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:48.919 like you said, he was a bit of a go getter. 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.520 He's thirteen, he's on his own, literally without any any 0:04:52.560 --> 0:04:55.559 other family in America. Yeah, it's kind of mind blowing. 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:58.880 But then you think back to there there. They didn't 0:04:58.920 --> 0:05:01.920 really under to what childhood was at that point. So 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:04.440 he was probably like of working age and had been 0:05:04.480 --> 0:05:07.200 for years. But it seems really weird to us now. 0:05:07.640 --> 0:05:10.880 He might have been retiring right at thirteen. He was 0:05:10.920 --> 0:05:14.320 smoking cigars already, so he, like I said, it, was 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.320 a go getter. He started working at the on the 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:22.520 Pennsylvania Railroad and then moved to West Virginia to Smithers Smithers, 0:05:22.920 --> 0:05:27.279 West Virginia, and worked as a truck driver and then said, 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:31.120 you know what, this is America, darn it. I didn't 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:33.640 come here to drive a truck for someone. I'm gonna 0:05:33.720 --> 0:05:37.000 own my own trucking business. And the Statue of Liberty went, 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:41.720 ah yep, nice going kid. So he started at his 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:45.479 own trucking business. Um, and he's in West Virginia. So 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.280 in short order he starts hauling cole yeah, coal and dirt. 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:50.279 And it wasn't like the hugest business. I think he 0:05:50.279 --> 0:05:52.400 did okay for himself. He did it okay for himself 0:05:52.640 --> 0:05:55.440 solidly middle class. Yeah, he didn't become like wealthy or anything. 0:05:55.480 --> 0:05:57.520 And as a matter of fact, later on UM a 0:05:57.600 --> 0:06:01.960 local local government official would say that the Sauders were, 0:06:02.160 --> 0:06:07.920 um one of the best middle class families in Fayetteville. Yeah, 0:06:08.920 --> 0:06:12.520 and they had a small Italian population in Fayetteville, which 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:14.400 I think is why he ended up there, right in 0:06:14.440 --> 0:06:19.320 his community. Yeah, and he moved there with his wife Jenny, right, Yeah, 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:24.240 Jenny Cipriani who he met, Um. She came over from 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.520 Italy when she was three. He met her historic called 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:30.200 the music Box, and they got married. And like Italian 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:34.640 families do, they had ten kids. Ten kids in twenty years. Yeah, 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:38.839 that's a lot of kids, pumping them out with great regularity. 0:06:39.000 --> 0:06:40.720 And like you said, when they moved to Fayettville, the 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:42.880 reason they moved to Fayville. Had no idea that West 0:06:42.960 --> 0:06:45.960 Virginia even had Italian people in it, let alone strong 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:49.680 Italian communities. But they moved to Fayettville and they were 0:06:49.839 --> 0:06:53.440 part of the Italian community, and George was well known. Again, 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.279 they were respected middle class family there. He did pretty 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:59.719 good for himself, UM. And he was also well known 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:04.400 for his opinions on everything including politics and UM. During 0:07:04.440 --> 0:07:07.760 the forties, the United States was at war with Italy, 0:07:08.279 --> 0:07:12.440 and not all of the Italian Americans were UM feeling it. 0:07:12.520 --> 0:07:15.480 On the American side, there were a lot of disagreements 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:20.120 over Mussolini and the government that he was creating UM 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:24.840 among Italian Americans, including in Fayetteville, West Virginia, and George 0:07:25.360 --> 0:07:29.040 in particular, hated Mussolini and very frequently spoke out about 0:07:29.120 --> 0:07:30.720 him and would get in arguments with some of the 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:34.840 locals who who felt differently about Mussolini. And Uh, I 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:36.600 guess there were some hard feelings here there, but he 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:40.200 doesn't seem to have taken them seriously very much. No, 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:42.880 And we mentioned that, Um, if it sounds like we're 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.720 setting something up for later, we indeed are. So just 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:48.960 tuck that little fact away, um. And then can we 0:07:49.360 --> 0:07:54.720 fast forward in time? Yeah too, Uh Christmas Eve, Christmas Eve? 0:07:54.760 --> 0:08:02.160 N So, Um, here's what happens. It's Christmas Eve. Um. 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:05.360 As his tradition, in some households, you can open up 0:08:05.720 --> 0:08:08.840 a few gifts on Christmas Eve. Yeah, so this is 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:11.960 what happened. They opened up some presents comes time for 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:17.320 Betty By and five of the children, Maurice fourteen, Martha twelve, 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:24.200 Louis or Louie, ten, Genie or Jenny as that was 0:08:24.360 --> 0:08:27.480 a little confusing because that's the mom's name. Eight years old, 0:08:27.480 --> 0:08:30.800 and Betty said, can we please stay up late and 0:08:30.880 --> 0:08:34.240 play with these new toys? Yeah, they're older. Sister Marian 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.920 had she worked at a five and diamond town two 0:08:37.920 --> 0:08:41.440 miles down the road, and she had surprised her younger 0:08:41.440 --> 0:08:43.400 brothers and sisters with some toys that they had not 0:08:43.440 --> 0:08:45.800 been expecting. That's right, and they were very happy. So 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:48.480 they asked mom if they could stay up. Yeah, and 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:51.440 the older, the elder Jenny, said yeah, I guess you 0:08:51.440 --> 0:08:53.560 can stay up, turn out the lights, locked the doors 0:08:53.800 --> 0:08:56.839 before you go to bed. I'm going to hit the 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:00.360 rack with your dad. And are two year old daughters Sylvia, 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:03.560 twenty three year old John In sixteen year old George Jr. 0:09:03.600 --> 0:09:05.520 Were I guess they were just ready for bed too. 0:09:06.160 --> 0:09:09.640 And then if you're thinking there's one missing child, he 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:14.200 is away in the military. The eldest, Yeah, fighting either 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:19.160 Mussolini or Hitler or to Joe, one of those guys, right, 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.960 So he's away and I could not, for the life 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:26.880 of me find that guy's name. Then I couldn't either. Actually, So, um, 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:29.760 the mom goes to bed. Jenny goes to bed, and uh, 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:34.839 the dad, George and his two next oldest sons, who 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:37.080 had been working with him that day, they'd all gone 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.079 to bed about ten. Um. What time did the mom 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:43.160 go to bed? Eleven something like that. Yeah, but she 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:48.000 leaves those five youngest children, Um and Marian, their older 0:09:48.040 --> 0:09:50.520 sister who I think was seventeen at the time, downstairs 0:09:50.520 --> 0:09:54.800 when she goes to bed. Um. And then it about 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:58.080 twelve thirty on Christmas Morne, because remember that was Christmas Eve, 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:02.359 about twelve thirty at night, the own rings and Um, 0:10:02.400 --> 0:10:04.920 this is not an era where and this kind of 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:07.600 to me goes to show these people were doing all right. 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:12.080 They had a phone in in West Virginia. They may 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:14.040 have been the only people in West Virginia with a 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:18.800 phone in nineteen I'm just saying, I don't think everybody 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:22.880 had a phone in West Virginia, so they certainly didn't 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:25.360 have one at their bedside. So Jenny, the mom has 0:10:25.400 --> 0:10:28.160 to get up to answer the phone, and on the 0:10:28.160 --> 0:10:31.200 other line she hears a woman asking for somebody she 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:34.160 didn't know or recognized, and in the background there's obviously 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:37.480 a party going on. There's laughter, there's clinking of glasses, 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:41.000 and uh, Jenny says, I don't know who you're talking about. 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:44.000 You have the wrong number, and the woman laughs weirdly 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:46.480 and hangs up. Yeah, I'm gonna go ahead and come 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:49.000 out and say, I think this means nothing in his 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:53.320 total coincidence. So supposedly they tracked that woman down and 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:56.960 she said it was just a wrong number. Total coincidence, 0:10:57.000 --> 0:11:00.160 that's what I think. But think about that though, Like, 0:11:00.240 --> 0:11:03.240 had that not happened, a lot of other stuff would 0:11:03.280 --> 0:11:06.920 have gone unnoticed. Right, it's a big deal. So before 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:08.640 she goes back to bed, she noticed the lights are 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:11.679 on downstairs. She said, you know, turn the lights off, 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:13.520 locked the door before you go to bed. So one 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:15.600 of her kids is on the couch asleep. She's like, 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:19.079 wait a minute, the doors unlocked, the lights are on. Um, 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:20.800 they shouldn't have done that. So let me lock the 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:22.760 doors and turn off the lights. And she leaves the 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.920 one that's asleep on the couch asleep. It was the 0:11:26.960 --> 0:11:30.320 one that got her toys. Sleepy time on the couch. 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:32.679 That's fine, But those five younger ones who've been playing 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:34.680 with their toys, they were in ordered to be found, 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.400 so mom just assumed they went upstairs to bed, right, 0:11:37.760 --> 0:11:41.360 So she goes back to bed, and then like an 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:46.280 hour later, she's awoken by like a thump on the roof. Yeah, 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:48.720 and she falls back asleep again. Well, it sounded like 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:52.600 a heavy thump and a sliding down of the roof 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:55.960 was just something heavy head landed on it and then 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:59.160 slid off, and she just went back to sleep, very 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.800 important matters. Probably figured it was a reindeer or something 0:12:01.840 --> 0:12:04.920 like that. At being Christmas, you never know. Uh. The 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:07.320 next time she woke up, she woke up to panic 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:11.000 and chaos because her house was on fire. And chuck, 0:12:11.280 --> 0:12:39.600 we'll talk about the fire right after this. All right, dude, 0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:44.400 the house is on fire, that's right. So Sylvia, a 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:45.880 little two year old Sylvia is in their room with 0:12:45.880 --> 0:12:48.880 her the parents, so they get her out, obviously covered 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:53.160 with them because she's in the crib. Uh. And then 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:57.280 seventeen year old Marion and year old John and sixth 0:12:57.360 --> 0:13:02.000 year old George Jr. Are all outside and safe right 0:13:02.040 --> 0:13:04.800 at this point, So everyone is out except for these 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:09.360 five other kids, right, And they were on the top 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.040 floor of the house. I believe in two different rooms 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:15.000 and the only way down is this one single staircase. 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:18.360 And George tried to go back into the house. He 0:13:18.400 --> 0:13:22.160 broke through a window, cut his arm quite badly. UM 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:26.120 getting into through in through the window or opening the door. UM, 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:30.520 and runs inside and the entire downstairs floor is totally 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:34.120 engulfed in flame and smoke. He can't see anything, but 0:13:34.240 --> 0:13:36.200 he can see that there's no way he can go 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:39.480 up the staircase or anyone can make it down the staircase. 0:13:39.600 --> 0:13:41.319 So he runs back outside of the house to try 0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:43.920 to figure out another way to get up to those 0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:46.720 kids on the on the top floor. Yeah, and here's 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:50.840 an interesting point. UM. One of the relatives of I 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:52.720 think it was the guy who ended up marrying the 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:56.400 youngest daughter later in life. UM Sylvia said they did 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:57.960 a lot of research on this, and he said the 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.040 original police report said that the very first statement said 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.760 that the two sons, John and George, who got out, 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.360 said they actually ran into the other kids rooms and 0:14:07.400 --> 0:14:11.520 physically shook them awake. And then later on in interviews 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.800 they said no, they just called out to them. UM, 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:18.640 and assume they heard. But it's still is a mystery 0:14:18.679 --> 0:14:21.240 as to whether or not that really happened. Police will 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:25.720 say the first statement is usually the accurate one, um, 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:28.840 But that's just speculation. So from what I understand, the 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:33.200 family rationalized that later on by saying that the two 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:37.440 boys probably felt very guilty, and they said that they 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:39.400 did what they wished they had or felt that they 0:14:39.400 --> 0:14:42.560 should have done. That makes sense, and that their revisions 0:14:42.640 --> 0:14:45.320 later on were actually the factual ones. That they tried 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.920 to rouse their um siblings by just shouting up the stairs. 0:14:49.160 --> 0:14:52.840 I can buy that. UM. So Papa tries to get in, 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:56.000 cuts himself really bad. Then he says, wait a minute, 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.240 I have this ladder that leans up against the house. 0:14:58.320 --> 0:15:02.000 Always always let me go grab that ladders. Not they're 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:04.240 very weird. It is very weird, and it would be 0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.360 found in a ditch like from the house later on, 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:12.160 and later on witnesses supposedly saw dude stealing it, uh 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:16.640 from the garage. But there's so many things that people 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:19.280 say about this case that it is hard to know 0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:21.840 what's true and what was invented. That is true that 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.240 they saw a guy a dude, well, they report that 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:26.560 they saw a guy. Well that guy the guy actually 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.920 was found and was arrested and charged for stealing and 0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.720 never questioned about the actual fire. The guy that stole 0:15:33.760 --> 0:15:38.200 the ladder. Yeah, okay, so they he says, the dad says, 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.280 let me get my trucks, my big uh coal Holland 0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:43.880 trucks and pull because those are tall. Let me pull 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:46.360 that next to the house, climb up on that. Neither 0:15:46.360 --> 0:15:48.760 one of the trucks start, even though they've been using 0:15:48.840 --> 0:15:52.200 him to work earlier that day. Yeah, so the thinking 0:15:52.200 --> 0:15:54.200 by the cops and everyone else pretty much is in 0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:56.920 the panic he and his son flooded the engines trying 0:15:56.960 --> 0:15:59.520 to get him started, and that they wouldn't start. Yeah, 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:05.080 but it became yet another like fishy detail that made 0:16:05.080 --> 0:16:09.440 this family suspect like something really weird happened here. Yeah, 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:13.040 and then later there was a totally don't understand the 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:18.280 whole engine removal theory. So it doesn't make any sense 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:22.640 that guy who stole the ladder was caught stealing a 0:16:22.720 --> 0:16:25.640 block and tackle that you would use to remove engines. Yeah, 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:27.680 that doesn't make any sense, But it doesn't mean like 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:29.880 he messed with their car or used that block and 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:33.200 tackle to do anything to the engines. They probably just 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:36.520 flooded him that one. I'm I'm an agreement on. So 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:40.160 these this family they're watching helplessly as the house is 0:16:40.240 --> 0:16:42.440 going up in flames. That was burned to the ground 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:48.000 in about forty five minutes, ostensibly with the children trapped inside. Yeah. 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:50.320 And if you think, why did in the fire the 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:54.120 fire trucks come the Fatte Fire Department? Uh, you know 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:58.200 it was was Fayetteville, West Virginia. Was Christmas? It was 0:16:58.240 --> 0:17:03.760 Christmas night or morn I guess at this point, um, uh, 0:17:04.200 --> 0:17:06.040 you know, one of the daughters went to a neighbor's house, 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:10.000 called the fire department. No operators on duty even, right, 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:13.520 And another neighbor who saw this didn't have a phone 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:15.520 at their house, so they went to the local tavern 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:19.360 and they called the operator to report the fire too, 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:23.240 and they couldn't get the operator either operator was probably 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:26.879 at home sleeping for Christmas, that's right. So eventually someone 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:31.880 drives and literally physically tracks down uh fire Chief F. J. Morris, 0:17:32.080 --> 0:17:35.040 who does not come out smelling well in this, Well 0:17:35.040 --> 0:17:37.600 he doesn't. He said, well, I can't drive the fire 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:41.080 truck as the fire chief. And the way that they 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:43.400 don't even have a siren, The way that they alerted 0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:46.040 the fire department was it's called a phone tree. They 0:17:46.119 --> 0:17:48.399 just start calling one another. Then they called the next person, 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:51.160 which made even the last sense because again the solders 0:17:51.200 --> 0:17:53.280 were the only people in West Virginia with a phone 0:17:53.280 --> 0:17:57.280 in their house. It's not true. Uh So eventually, seven 0:17:57.280 --> 0:17:59.800 hours later, at eight a m. The fire truck arrives 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.080 to find a smoldering pile of ash, and a lot 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:05.359 of people are like, well, clearly the fire department was 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:09.399 paid off or told to halt. From what I gather, 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:14.440 it was sheer ineptitude. And also the sense I think 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:19.040 the fire marshal or fire chief defended himself later saying, yeah, 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:20.960 he said I couldn't drive the fire trucks side to 0:18:20.960 --> 0:18:24.159 wait for somebody who could. And also that house went 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:27.160 up so fast there was no there wasn't any need 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:29.280 for us to get there in any kind of hurry. Well, 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:32.440 I mean that's probably true. He also said burned in 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:35.120 like between thirty and forty five minutes. Yeah, if you're 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.200 a fire chief, that's not what you want to say, 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:40.719 you know, like who cares when we get there? Also, 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:44.520 one of the firemen who showed up was Jenny Satter's brother, 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.440 So it's not like there was this conspiracy to among 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:51.720 the fire department necessarily, although that is a common belief 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:53.919 in people who pay attention to this case. It is 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:56.879 so what they find eight am as a house burnt 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:01.280 to the ground. What they don't find are any remnants 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.480 of those five children. Yeah, and here in is where 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:08.760 the mystery really kicks in. The family starts like paying 0:19:08.800 --> 0:19:13.080 attention to little weird details. At first, they just assumed 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:17.119 that the kids have they're they're just totally gone. They 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:19.600 were totally burned up. Well, that's what the fire chief said. 0:19:19.600 --> 0:19:22.160 He was like, there's no remains whatsoever because it burned 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:25.399 them to nothing. They did, like a cursory examination of 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:27.800 the rubble. They did find some other stuff, like they 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:32.399 found appliances that were recognizable, They found a couple other things, 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.320 but they never found any of the kids. Um, And 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:40.480 they took the fire chief's word at face value and said, Okay, 0:19:40.480 --> 0:19:42.480 well our kids are in there. We can't bear to 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.439 the side of this any longer. So George went and 0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:49.800 got a bunch of dirt and buried the site in 0:19:49.840 --> 0:19:53.639 about five ft of fill dirt and decided to plant 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:56.600 a memorial garden there on the side of the house. Fire. Yeah, 0:19:56.600 --> 0:19:59.000 this is on January two, so that he wasn't supposed 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:01.480 to do this. They're supposed to leave it open to 0:20:01.520 --> 0:20:06.639 continue to investigate. Um. The state police inspector said it 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:10.959 was faulty wiring. It's now covered in dirt. Um, and 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:14.359 so now the family has just left alone, saying what 0:20:14.520 --> 0:20:17.480 happened to our children? Are they? Were they in there? Right? 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:20.320 So that that when they buried the place and dirt, 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:22.359 they assumed that the children were still in there, and 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:25.639 this was there. They're grave now. They were never going 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:28.600 to be found um. But then, like you said, they 0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:32.359 started thinking about weird details that emerged. Right. One of 0:20:32.400 --> 0:20:35.240 the first ones was the idea that it was faulty wiring. 0:20:36.040 --> 0:20:39.080 George basically knew for a fact that it wasn't faulty wiring. 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:42.959 He'd recently had um an electric stove installed and just 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:45.920 to make sure again there he was doing pretty well, 0:20:46.160 --> 0:20:48.200 just to make sure that the house didn't burn down 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:50.719 with this new fangled electric stove. He had the wiring 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:53.640 in the house redone, and then he had it inspected 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:56.480 by the power company, who sent out an inspector and 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:59.240 said they did a good job. Wiring is fine. So 0:20:59.280 --> 0:21:02.920 he basically you almost for a fact that it wasn't 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:05.960 faulty wiring in the house. Yeah. Not only that after 0:21:06.000 --> 0:21:08.000 the fire started, when they were outside, there were still 0:21:08.080 --> 0:21:10.800 lights on in the house, right, So remember Jenny came 0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:12.960 down and turned out the lights. She left the Christmas 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:15.840 tree lights on, and while the house was burning, the 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:18.800 Christmas tree was still the Christmas tree lights were on, 0:21:19.040 --> 0:21:21.359 which must have been like a really ghastly thing to see, 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:26.320 you know. Uh, speaking of the wiring, there was a 0:21:26.480 --> 0:21:29.800 point a few months earlier, and this is definitely a 0:21:29.840 --> 0:21:33.040 strange thing, when this guy showed up. He was a stranger, 0:21:33.119 --> 0:21:35.480 no one knew him, and he asked about, you know, 0:21:35.520 --> 0:21:38.120 working as a driver, and he didn't have any work 0:21:38.119 --> 0:21:40.400 for him, but he was sort of just I guess. 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:42.960 They had the conversation outdoors, wandered around at the back 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:45.400 of his house and said, you know, what you're wiring 0:21:45.440 --> 0:21:47.280 here at your fuse box is going to cause a 0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:51.320 fire someday. And George thought, well, that's a really weird 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:53.280 thing to say, because not only did I have it 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:56.520 just inspected and it's fine, it's just a strange thing 0:21:56.600 --> 0:21:59.720 for you to say, Mr stranger, get off my property 0:22:00.080 --> 0:22:04.919 pretty much, but take the cannoli very nice, but weird 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:07.679 and disconcerting after the fact. Obviously, sure he didn't think 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:09.680 anything of it at the time other than that's a 0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:12.760 weird thing to say. Yeah. Um. Another fishy thing that 0:22:12.840 --> 0:22:15.439 happened that really kind of stuck out in retrospect was 0:22:16.119 --> 0:22:20.159 the life insurance salesman, right, Yeah, a life insurance salesman 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:24.560 came through and um tried to sell George some life 0:22:24.560 --> 0:22:29.520 insurance policies for his children, and George didn't bite and 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:33.280 the guy got I rate and his quote was kind 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:36.840 of weird. Actually, he said, your house is going to 0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:40.280 go up and smoke your g D house. Yeah, your 0:22:40.359 --> 0:22:44.320 children are going to be destroyed. And then here's here's 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:47.920 where it really gets weird. He says, you will be 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:51.840 repaid for the dirty things you've been saying about Mussolini. Yeah, 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:55.360 and George just went like, get off my property. Yeah, 0:22:55.720 --> 0:22:58.439 just the usual. Yeah. So remember we said that he 0:22:58.480 --> 0:23:02.400