WEBVTT - What if our particles were different? 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.760 Hey, Daniel, do you worry at all about answering listener emails? Now? 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:14.920 What do I have to worry about? You know, you're 0:00:15.520 --> 0:00:18.400 offering secrets of the universe for free to anyone on 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:21.040 the internet. What's wrong with that? That's kind of my job. 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:23.480 I mean, how do you know what they're gonna do 0:00:23.560 --> 0:00:26.200 with that information? Oh? I see You're worried someone out 0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:29.400 there is sitting in their underground layer, stroking a white 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:31.720 cat in their lap and looking for physical advice about 0:00:31.720 --> 0:00:35.960 how to build a doomsday device a little bit. Yeah, well, 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:38.320 so far nobody has asked me how to build a 0:00:38.400 --> 0:00:43.159 nuclear warhead. Wait didn't we answer that in a podcast already? Oh? Yeah, Oops, 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:46.000 we did to give away those secrets. You know, maybe 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:50.000 you'ld have the government filtering your emails, Daniel say, if 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:53.320 they're not already listening, if you're hearing this, it means 0:00:53.360 --> 0:01:10.600 they let this one through. Hi, I am more handmade 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:13.800 cartoonists and the creator of PhD comments. Hi. I'm Daniel. 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:16.720 I'm a particle physicist, and I don't have any actual 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:20.080 useful practical knowledge. But you do have a white cat 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:25.600 that you're stroking right now. I don't anymore. I don't anymore. No, 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:28.800 I have a beautiful pandemic puppy that we adopted, but 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.240 he's not part of my doomsday plan to take over 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.600 the world, right right. You never see any villains supervillains 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:37.080 having a dog, right, It's always like a cat or 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:40.080 some kind of lizard, some kind of dangerous animal. That's 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:42.800 because dogs are inherently good and sympathetic. I can't imagine 0:01:42.840 --> 0:01:45.119 evil person having a pet dog, right right. I guess 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:49.400 they would make the supervillain turn good, probably exactly exactly, 0:01:49.400 --> 0:01:51.640 whereas cats, on the other hand, they were happy to 0:01:51.640 --> 0:01:54.920 snuggle up to an evil dude. Lower standards cats, But 0:01:55.000 --> 0:01:57.760 welcome to our universe. Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe 0:01:57.840 --> 0:02:00.600 a production of I Heart Radio in which we explain 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:04.160 the universe to us, to you, two cats and two dogs. 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:07.360 We talk about everything that's out there, including all the 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:10.040 pets in the universe, and all the crazy things that 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:12.600 we see, the things we hear, and the things that 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:16.120 we can just barely detect with the most powerful scientific 0:02:16.160 --> 0:02:19.079 instruments ever devised. We try to weave it all together 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:21.600 to you into a tapestry of understanding, so that you 0:02:21.639 --> 0:02:24.040 can grasp what we do and what we don't know 0:02:24.160 --> 0:02:27.200 yet about the universe, because it is a pretty big 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:30.760 carpet of a universe, filled with small details and large 0:02:31.280 --> 0:02:34.280 amazing facts for us to discover. And Daniel, do you 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:37.880 think we have pet listeners? I think we probably do. Yeah, 0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:39.880 I'm sure there are folks out there who listen with 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:41.560 their pets, and so their pets are sort of like 0:02:41.840 --> 0:02:45.679 you know, second hand listeners, and they're absorbing physics. Oh 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:48.000 my gosh, what if we give rise to like the 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:52.680 first dog genius, some dogs out there taking notes right like, 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:56.720 turn that on. I gotta learn exactly how that works, 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.000 like the tail wax every time we say a banana 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:01.760 joke or something. Maybe or when the dogs take over, 0:03:01.800 --> 0:03:03.720 maybe at least they'll give us credit, you know, for 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:06.560 teaching them some secrets of the universe that were critical 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:09.160 to their coup and when they are just gonna turn 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:10.600 to its owner and be like, hey, I think I 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:15.040 figured out how to imagine quantum mechanics and relativity. Also 0:03:15.120 --> 0:03:17.440 I need more. Yeah, Well, if the only expense to 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.280 solving the deepest questions in the universe were more dog treats, 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:22.280 and I think we could get the National Science Foundation 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:25.440 to cover that I know who needs an LHC particle collider. 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:28.680 You spend all those billions of dollars in dog treats, 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:31.040 that's right, we need like a Chihuahwa thick tank. Yeah, 0:03:31.080 --> 0:03:33.160 you know what they say, like the monkeys and typewriter, 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:35.680 Let's just get a bunch of dogs, play them all 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:38.240 of our podcasts and see what happens. You know, I've 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:40.120 been to the dog park in our neighborhood. It's something 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:42.640 like a collider. You see dogs running in circles like 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:45.240 crazy and sometimes bouncing into each other. But I never 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.560 see like new weird kinds of dogs created in high 0:03:48.640 --> 0:03:51.920 energy dog collisions. You just got to crack up the energy, Diniel. Obviously. 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.360 If there's one thing I learned in this podcast is 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:58.080 more energy, more magic. That's right. I guess we just 0:03:58.120 --> 0:03:59.800 need to double the treats and see what happens. Do 0:03:59.840 --> 0:04:01.760 you have a special name for your dog, like Cork 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:06.720 or Metrino or you know, strong dog or something. No. No No, 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:09.240 Our dog is a rescue from Insanata and he came 0:04:09.280 --> 0:04:10.760 with a name. His name is Pepito, and he is 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:13.560 a wonderful member of the family. Now, Pepito, that does 0:04:13.600 --> 0:04:16.800 sound like a particle to be named that you discover 0:04:16.880 --> 0:04:19.960 one day, you can name it the Pepito. Yeah, exactly. 0:04:20.880 --> 0:04:22.919 But it is a wonderful universe that we like to 0:04:22.960 --> 0:04:25.240 talk about, the one that we have, I guess I 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:27.240 mean the universe that we know and that we love, 0:04:27.320 --> 0:04:29.600 that we live in, that we seem to be studying 0:04:29.600 --> 0:04:32.920 and learning more about. But we sometimes wonder if it's 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:35.320 the only universe out there. That's right, There's a lot 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.159 of things in our universe that we don't understand that 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:41.880 seems sort of arbitrary, like why does the electron have 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:44.559 the mass that it does, and why is the speed 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:46.680 of light the number that it is. This is just 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:51.039 like list of numbers that describe and define our universe, 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:54.040 and if those numbers were different, the way everything worked 0:04:54.080 --> 0:04:57.039 would be totally different. So we wonder sometimes is this 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:58.960 the only set of numbers there going to be? Are 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:02.480 there other universe is with different numbers or the control 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.400 rule of that universe has different settings on their knobs? 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:08.680 Right right? With Pepito? Have more energy at the dot 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:13.679 park impossible, He's already going maximum dog speed. He's reached 0:05:13.720 --> 0:05:16.240 the limit of the universe. But it is sort of 0:05:16.240 --> 0:05:18.680 like the universe has like a serial number, right. I 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:20.960 was trying to think of a good example of to 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:22.880 illustrate this, But it's sort of like the universe has 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:24.839 a serial number, and you look at the serial number 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:27.600 and you think, like, oh, where did that number come from? 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:31.880 There must be other universes with maybe a different serial number. Yeah, 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:35.039 And it's not just that we have arbitrry numbers. When 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:37.720 physicists look at these numbers, they think sometimes the numbers 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:42.719 look weird, like unusual, Like if you randomly pick these numbers, 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:45.840 these would be rare. And that makes people think like, wow, 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:49.240 maybe there's a lot of universes, so many that you 0:05:49.279 --> 0:05:51.919 even have weird and rare numbers. That's kind of a 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:54.080 weak argument because even if there are lots and lots 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:56.920 of universes, we have no real reason to understand why 0:05:57.000 --> 0:05:59.920 some numbers are preferred or some numbers are not or 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:02.840 what would be rare. But physicists they like numbers like 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:06.599 one or zero or pie. They don't like numbers like 0:06:06.839 --> 0:06:09.280 one divided by a hundred and thirty seven. So when 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:11.440 they see a number like that, they go, that's weird. 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.680 I wonder why. It's like looking at your serial number 0:06:14.720 --> 0:06:17.720 and seeing it that it's like three three, You're like, 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:20.960 that's weird. We must have gotten like a weird, crazy 0:06:21.080 --> 0:06:24.280 coincidence number in our serial number. Yeah, but maybe not, 0:06:24.400 --> 0:06:26.320 And maybe all the numbers are out there and only 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:29.000 the people with three three are the ones going, Oh, 0:06:29.040 --> 0:06:31.160 that's weird. I wonder what that means? Am I special? 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:34.240 Or maybe there's a reason. Maybe it's the only number 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:37.560 that works. Maybe there's some underlying idea that restricts what 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:40.160 these numbers can be that says, the electron mass has 0:06:40.160 --> 0:06:41.839 to be this, and the speed of light has to 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:44.240 be that, and the strength of gravity has to be this. 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:46.920 We just haven't figured it out yet, right. It could 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:49.360 be that they only made one universe and they happened 0:06:49.400 --> 0:06:52.120 to put the serial number three three through three, right, 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.320 Like who knows, right, Yeah, But these are really fun 0:06:55.400 --> 0:06:58.360 questions because they make you like totally blow up your 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.359 mind and think about the whole context, not just of 0:07:01.400 --> 0:07:04.640 the human experience, but of the universe. Like if the 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:07.960 whole universe, with its billions and trillions of stars, is 0:07:08.000 --> 0:07:12.160 just one of many universes, it's just like blowing your 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:15.160 mind at the next level. Right, that's this idea of 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.320 the multiverse, which we've talked about here in our podcast, 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:20.480 and we've talked about how there are different flavors of 0:07:20.520 --> 0:07:23.520 the multiverse. But I think the basic ideas that made 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:27.000 there are other universes out there, and one possible version 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:29.280 of the multiverse is that it's like a version of 0:07:29.320 --> 0:07:32.280 our universe, but with different properties or like different values 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:35.559 for different physical things. Right, yeah, precisely, that's one idea 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:38.560 of a multiverse, and it's really not too far fetched. 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:40.320 You might be thinking a whole lot of seconds. The 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:42.920 laws of physics are the laws of physics, and you know, 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:46.680 across the metaverse there should be one set of rules 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.520 that tells everything how it works. Right, Well, there might 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.000 still be, But what we're talking about here are not 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:55.560 like the deepest, truest laws of physics, but sort of 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:58.800 the ones we observe in our experiments. These are what 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:01.280 we call effective theory is because they don't describe like 0:08:01.480 --> 0:08:04.680 the universe at its smallest and deepest level. They just 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:07.280 describe what we have been able to see so far. 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:09.880 The way, for example, like describing the motion of a 0:08:09.960 --> 0:08:13.360 ball as the parabola isn't a fundamental property of the universe. 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:15.520 It's just something that kind of works. Well, the same 0:08:15.640 --> 0:08:18.320 is true of our laws. Even like the standard model 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:21.240 of particle physics, this quantum field theory that's like a 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:24.600 crowning intellectual achievement of humanity. We think it's mostly an 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:29.440 effective theory and it's controlled by deeper parameters we don't understand. 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:32.120 So it's possible that in the multiverse, even if there 0:08:32.200 --> 0:08:35.840 is like a single coherent theory across the multiverses, it 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:39.960 can appear different in different universes because of how those 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:42.760 universes break out. For example, of the Higgs field ends 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:45.320 up at a different value than all the particles have 0:08:45.400 --> 0:08:48.680 different masses, and we just don't really understand that deeper 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:51.400 theory yet, So we don't really understand how many universes 0:08:51.480 --> 0:08:54.400 there can be and how it can translate into different theories. 0:08:54.440 --> 0:08:57.160 But in the end, it is possible that there are 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:00.800 other universes out there with different laws of physics because 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:04.080 their parameters are different values. Right, I guess you can 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:06.720 have multiple universes, some with different laws and some with 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:08.959 different values. But I think the one that we're going 0:09:08.960 --> 0:09:12.319 to tackle today is this possibility of a multiverse multiple 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:16.320 universes with the same laws but maybe different values for like, 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:20.000 you know, some of the fundamental physical properties, right. Yeah, 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:23.440 and this comes to us from a future scientist who's 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:25.520 inspired to ask us questions because he read a really 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.400 fun book. Yeah, we have some great questions from Thomas 0:09:28.440 --> 0:09:32.640 from Ontario who is nine years old and best part, 0:09:32.840 --> 0:09:35.160 he's a fan of our book. We have no idea 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.880 a guide to the unknown universe. That's right. His mom 0:09:37.920 --> 0:09:40.400 wrote to us saying that he really enjoyed reading the book, 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:43.160 that it's stimulated his deep thoughts about the nature of 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:46.120 the universe, and that he had some questions for us 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:48.800 that he wanted to answer. Yeah, so kudos to Thomas 0:09:48.800 --> 0:09:52.079 for reading the book. I have yet to read our book, Daniel. No, 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:55.480 I'm just kidding. I had to read it many times 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:58.120 in writing it. But kudos to Thomas for reading the 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:00.400 book and for being a fan of physics. It's never 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:05.440 too early to start. So here is Thomas asking his questions. Hi. 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:08.880 My name is Thomas. I'm from thunder Bay, Ontario, Canada, 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:11.719 and I'm nine and I have some questions for you, 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:14.680 Daniel Hawaii. Can you do an episode about what would 0:10:14.720 --> 0:10:16.800 happen if the photon had as much mass as a 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:19.680 top quok and another question, what if the neutrino felt 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:22.280 strong force? And and my last question, what if the 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:26.720 neutrino photo electromagnetism. Whoa it was like a question machine. 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:29.280 I know. Let's just hope he doesn't have a white cat, 0:10:30.679 --> 0:10:33.440 not yet. At least he's gonna listen to this episode 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:35.560 and we realize, oh, that's the next step and becoming 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:39.640 a super villain. Great, great, get him a dog, put 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:42.240 tepedo and a create and ship him over. He could 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:45.160 still become a superhero, not a supervillain. Wow, we could 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:48.440 intervene and save the planet by turning him to use 0:10:48.480 --> 0:10:51.280 his powers for good. Yes, at least in this multiverse, 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:53.760 in this timeline, Thomas, there is still good in you. 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:57.760 I feel the bright side of the force. Now. I'm 0:10:57.760 --> 0:11:00.560 sure Thomas is an awesome kid, and he just wants 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:02.520 to know more about the universe. I imagine he read 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:05.520 our book and he saw all of these particles that 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:07.679 we talked about and how things could be different, and 0:11:07.760 --> 0:11:10.520 he probably wondered, like what if they were not what 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:13.360 they are right now? Like how would the universe be different? 0:11:13.440 --> 0:11:16.199 Like would it be totally different? Would it even be possible? 0:11:16.280 --> 0:11:18.960 Would we all collapse into a black hole or something. 0:11:19.120 --> 0:11:21.200 That's kind of a big question. Yeah, there's a lot 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:24.640 going on there. You know. It's fascinating how the properties 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.240 that we rely on, the things that make up our existence, 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:29.840 come down to these numbers, and if they were different, 0:11:29.880 --> 0:11:33.120 the universe would feel so different. That's really fun to 0:11:33.200 --> 0:11:35.840 think about, how the things that are important to us 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:39.280 are not really fundamental to the universe itself even if 0:11:39.320 --> 0:11:42.120 we rely on them. Right, And then the deeper question, 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:45.160 you know, of could those numbers be different? Should they 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:47.199 be different? Do we know why they are the way 0:11:47.280 --> 0:11:49.720 they are? Should they be different? That's a meta question, 0:11:49.800 --> 0:11:52.760 like if we could design the universe, what would it 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.760 be like? Now you're trying to think like a super villain, Daniel. Yeah, well, 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:58.200 you know, there's a lot of debate inside particle physics 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:02.160 about whether the equation of the universe should be beautiful. 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:04.719 Should we be seeking out a theory that hasn't like 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:07.640 an aesthetic appeals that when we really we go, oh 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:11.200 my gosh, that's incredible. I love it? Or does it matter? 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:13.560 You know, maybe we just need something that works. Even 0:12:13.720 --> 0:12:15.440 if people are like, jeez, that's kind of a clue. 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:17.400 But I guess that's just the way the universe is 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:19.880 a bit ugly, but it works. And if it's not beautiful, 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:22.559 can we give it a makeover? Can we, like, you know, 0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:26.559 do a little plastic surgery? Maybe? I see you want 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:31.040 to give some notes to the creator, some notes. I 0:12:31.080 --> 0:12:36.040 don't know love what you did here, but yeah, there 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:39.280 you go. Now you're thinking, like a supervillain or an 0:12:39.320 --> 0:12:42.760 executive producer, rewold the universe according to what we think 0:12:42.800 --> 0:12:44.959 it should be. I see. So supervillains are just like 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:47.839 executive producers on the Universe project. All right, well, thank 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:49.800 you Thomas for your questions. We'll start with your first 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:53.319 one here. What if the photon had the mass of 0:12:53.480 --> 0:12:57.400 a top quark. Now, that's a pretty cool question. First 0:12:57.440 --> 0:12:59.360 of all, like what if the photeson had mass in 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:02.480 the first place? Right, Like, that's already a big one. 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:04.319 And then what if it had the mass of the 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:07.559 top cork, which is kind of one of the heaviest particles, right, Yeah, 0:13:07.600 --> 0:13:10.319 the top cork is the heaviest fundamental particle we have 0:13:10.400 --> 0:13:12.680 ever found. It's the cousin of the up cork, which 0:13:12.720 --> 0:13:15.520 has almost no mass, but it weighs as much as 0:13:15.559 --> 0:13:19.040 a hundred and seventy five protons, So this tiny little 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:22.520 particle has more mass than like a gold atom. So 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:25.240 it's really incredible and sort of like at the extreme, 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:27.480 which is I think why Thomas is asking, like what 0:13:27.600 --> 0:13:29.920 if the lightest particle, the one with no mass, had 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:34.760 as much mass as the most massive particle? Nice? Alright, 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:37.360 so Daniel remind us here, the photon is massless, right, 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:39.640 it doesn't have any mass, It doesn't weigh anything. That's right. 0:13:39.679 --> 0:13:42.240 The photon has no mass, which gives it incredible powers. 0:13:42.440 --> 0:13:45.000 It means that it can travel at the speed of light, 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:47.280 and then it has to travel at the speed of light. 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.880 You can't ever catch up to a photon. Everybody who's 0:13:50.880 --> 0:13:52.640 measuring the speed of a photon is going to measure 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:55.480 to be the speed of light. And that's because a 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:59.480 photon is nothing because it has no mass other then motion. 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:01.839 So you can't catch up to it because if you did, 0:14:02.120 --> 0:14:05.079 there would be nothing there. There's no like frame of 0:14:05.240 --> 0:14:09.120 reference of the photon because there's nothing there but it's motion. 0:14:09.559 --> 0:14:12.439 So it's sort of a really awesome special case. And 0:14:12.520 --> 0:14:16.080 it's also really cool because it's in contrast to other 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:19.640 very very similar particles that do have mass like the 0:14:19.920 --> 0:14:22.960 w and the z bosons. These to play the same 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:25.760 role as the photon except for the weak fource, but 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.560 they do have mass. So we actually have an example 0:14:28.920 --> 0:14:32.200 in our universe of like a massive version of the photon. 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:34.040 And I guess I'm just going back to what you 0:14:34.120 --> 0:14:36.720 said the photon. Because it has no mass, it has 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:38.120 to go at the speed of light, right, Like, that's 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:40.160 one of the rules of the universe. Anything without mass 0:14:40.280 --> 0:14:41.920 has to go at the speed of light. Yea, and 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.160 not just photons, gluons for example, are any particle that 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:47.720 has no mass has to always go at the speed 0:14:47.760 --> 0:14:51.000 of light and nothing else can, right, And is there 0:14:51.040 --> 0:14:53.160 sort of an explanation as to what it has to 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:55.040 go at the speed of light because it has no mass, 0:14:55.080 --> 0:14:56.320 it has to go to the speed of light, or 0:14:56.360 --> 0:14:58.120 because it has to go at the speed of light 0:14:58.160 --> 0:15:00.120 it can't have any mass. It has to go at 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.720 the speed of light because it doesn't have mass. Yeah, 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.840 because anything with mass will travel at the maximum speed, 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:08.400 and because you can never catch up to it, and 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:10.920 so it will always travel at some speed you can't 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:14.480 ever gain on it. Right, You'll always be measuring travel 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:17.160 at the same speed because there's nothing there, it's just 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:19.760 motion and that's because it has no mass. So I 0:15:19.800 --> 0:15:22.360 would say, because it has no mass, therefore it travels 0:15:22.400 --> 0:15:25.800 at the speed of light. Right, and the photon and 0:15:26.040 --> 0:15:29.200 remind me, it's like the force transmitting particle for the 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.840 electromagnetic force. Right, that's right. The way like electrons push 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:36.160 against each other is that they pass photons back and forth. 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.080 You can think of photons is like ripples in the 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:43.120 electromagnetic field. And when an electron pushes against another electron 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:45.640 is doing so using its field. But you can also 0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:48.320 think of those fields effectively is like a bunch of 0:15:48.400 --> 0:15:51.240 photons added up. So yeah, you can think of photons 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:54.920 is like a way to transmit the electromagnetic force. Right. 0:15:55.080 --> 0:15:57.760 And so the photon is doesn't have any mass, which 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.520 I guess means it doesn't interact with the Eiggs field 0:16:00.640 --> 0:16:02.600 or does, but it has no effect. That's how things 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:04.600 have mass in the first place. Right, they interact with 0:16:04.600 --> 0:16:07.280 the Higgs field. Yeah, the photon does not interact with 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:09.760 the Higgs field. And it's sort of really interesting and 0:16:09.840 --> 0:16:13.240 super awesome because the photon actually is part of this 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:16.360 group of particles, the W particles and the Z and 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.520 the photon. They make a quadruplet. They're like all linked 0:16:19.600 --> 0:16:22.720 together because the electromagnetic force is really connected to the 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:25.680 weak force. It's in one force called the electro weak force, 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:29.400 and this quadrupletive particles. They all do interact with the 0:16:29.480 --> 0:16:32.320 Higgs field, and if the Higgs wasn't around, they would 0:16:32.320 --> 0:16:34.840 all be massless, they would all be zero mass. But 0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:38.080 the Higgs makes three of them heavy. It turns the 0:16:38.200 --> 0:16:41.120 Z and the two ws into heavy particles. But then 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:42.960 it's sort of used up. It can only make three 0:16:43.040 --> 0:16:46.120 of them heavy, and so the photon escapes and remains 0:16:46.280 --> 0:16:48.840 massless and the other ones get really really massive, and 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:52.200 that is why the weak force is weak. Whoa wait, wait, 0:16:52.200 --> 0:16:53.960 wait wait, So the photon is part of it, like 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:56.440 a family, like there are other versions of the photon. Yeah, 0:16:56.480 --> 0:16:58.760 the Z is very very similar to the photon. It's 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.600 exactly like the photon, and except that it's part of 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.760 the weak force and it has more mass. Oh I see, 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:07.480 It's like the electromagnetic fource and the weak force are related. 0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.440 But all of the forces, all of the force particles, 0:17:10.520 --> 0:17:12.800 and the weak force half mass. That's what makes it weak. 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:15.520 That's why we call them weak. Yeah, so the photon 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.280 is just like our name for the one out of 0:17:18.320 --> 0:17:22.600 the four particles that stayed massless. Whoa, and I guess 0:17:22.680 --> 0:17:25.840 then the weak force is sort of like light almost 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:27.680 like these other particles are also light, but they're like 0:17:27.880 --> 0:17:31.600 massive lights. Yeah, exactly, they are like heavy light. And 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:34.040 the reason that the weak force is weak is that 0:17:34.119 --> 0:17:36.720 these particles are so massive, so they like they don't 0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.760 go very far before they decay. A photon can travel 0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.080 across the whole universe. It's totally stable. But these particles, 0:17:43.119 --> 0:17:46.280 because they're massive, they break down into other stuff and 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:50.000 that limits the weak forces strength. So like back in 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:52.840 the early days of the universe, before the Higgs field 0:17:52.960 --> 0:17:56.119 broke this symmetry, all these particles were basically equivalent and 0:17:56.160 --> 0:17:59.399 the weak force was as powerful as electro magnetism. But 0:17:59.560 --> 0:18:02.680 then the universe cooled and the Higgs field condensed, and 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:06.240 it made these particles heavier, and it left the photon massless. 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:09.240 And so now the photon is like it's original version. 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.600 It can go through the whole universe and its infinite extent. 0:18:11.800 --> 0:18:15.000 Electromagnetism is a very powerful force, and the weak force 0:18:15.320 --> 0:18:17.159 is like a thin shadow of what it used to be. 0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:19.000 I'm also a thin shadow what I used to be, 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.119 and I'm more massive and slower than I was when 0:18:22.160 --> 0:18:24.359 I was younger. All right, well, let's get into the 0:18:24.440 --> 0:18:27.639 consequences now of Thomas's question of what happens that the 0:18:27.720 --> 0:18:32.320 photon had more mass, specifically the mass of the top cork. 0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:34.880 And I imagine it's not a light consequence. Big things 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:38.080 will happen. It's gonna be heavy duty. It's not gonna 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.360 be weak, it's gonna be mass. All right, we'll get 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:55.199 into that, but first let's take a quick break. Al Right, 0:18:55.280 --> 0:18:59.359 we are considering multiverses, different universes in which the laws 0:18:59.400 --> 0:19:02.960 of physics worked the same, but maybe the values of things, 0:19:03.160 --> 0:19:07.320 of particles and certain properties are different. And this came 0:19:07.359 --> 0:19:09.880 to us from Thomas from Ontario, who is nine years old, 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:12.280 and he's curious about, first of all, what happens if 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:15.200 the photon had the mass of the top court. It 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:18.200 would be a pretty weird universe if that happened. And 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:21.800 the weird or you mean weird, although I guess beings 0:19:21.840 --> 0:19:24.560 that arose that universe would think this is totally natural. 0:19:24.600 --> 0:19:27.000 How could it be any other way? Yeah? Also, what 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.520 would the Thomas and that universe be curious. What if 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:35.200 the photon were massless? What would happen? Yeah, that would 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:37.440 be as strange to them as the counterpartist to us. Yeah, 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:41.560 exactly right. So now let's so let's give the photon mass, Daniel, 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:43.720 what would happen if we give mass to the photon? So, 0:19:43.880 --> 0:19:46.040 if you give mass to the photon, for example, you 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:48.960 have like a more complicated Higgs boson that has the 0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:51.879 capacity to make more particles massive, and that's not too 0:19:52.000 --> 0:19:54.840 much of a stretch, Like supersymmetric versions of the Higgs 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:56.840 boson could do this, and we talked about in a 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.920 recent podcast episode, like how many kinds of Higgs boson 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.359 are there? So if you have more Higgs bosons, you 0:20:02.480 --> 0:20:06.639 could give the photon mass. If that happened, then electromagnetism 0:20:06.720 --> 0:20:09.440 would be much weaker than it is today. Like the 0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:13.560 relative power between electromagnetism and the weak force is a 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:15.480