WEBVTT - Trains of Terror, Part 1 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:07.120 Welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:12.960 --> 0:00:15.200 Hey you welcome to Stuff to Blow Your Mind. My 0:00:15.280 --> 0:00:16.520 name is Robert Lamb. 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:20.120 And I am Joe McCormick. And today is a thrilling 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:23.360 occasion for us here on the podcast because this very 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:27.920 episode is publishing on Tuesday, October first, twenty twenty four, 0:00:28.160 --> 0:00:31.560 which makes it the inaugural entry in our traditional month 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:36.520 long celebration of Halloween. So longtime fans, you know what's 0:00:36.560 --> 0:00:38.600 going on, you know what's in store. But in case 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.440 you're new to the show, the pitch is that every 0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:44.560 October on Stuff to Blow Your Mind, we devote all 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:50.680 of that month's core episodes two topics related to monsters, ghosts, demons, curses, 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:54.000 and horror Halloween stuff, and also for our weird House 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:57.040 cinema episodes. For the Fridays of this month, we're going 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:58.720 to be looking at horror movies. 0:00:59.280 --> 0:01:01.920 That's right. October is the month when you can turn 0:01:01.920 --> 0:01:03.440 to Stuff to Blow Your Mind and find that we 0:01:03.440 --> 0:01:05.800 were doing horror and monster stuff one hundred percent of 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:08.560 the time, as opposed to our normal like, I don't know, 0:01:08.720 --> 0:01:10.479 thirty five to forty percent of the time. 0:01:10.640 --> 0:01:12.760 That's right. People have pointed out before. I mean, we're 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:14.720 you know, we got monsters on the brain. That's kind 0:01:14.720 --> 0:01:17.040 of how we are. So throughout the year you'll get 0:01:17.080 --> 0:01:19.880 a smattering, but for October, it's it's all we do. 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:22.800 And I'm excited about the episode we're going to kick 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:24.720 off here today, the series we're kicking off here today 0:01:25.240 --> 0:01:27.479 because this is a topic we've been talking about doing 0:01:27.760 --> 0:01:31.000 for years now. This is well when we get around 0:01:31.040 --> 0:01:33.560 to planning out our October episodes, this one's been on 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:36.000 the list for a while and we're finally hopping aboard. 0:01:36.560 --> 0:01:38.319 Yeah, I wonder why it took us this long. I 0:01:38.319 --> 0:01:40.640 don't think there's a particular reason just shook out that way. 0:01:41.360 --> 0:01:45.240 But today we're beginning a series on locomotive horror, the 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:49.160 mini shades of menace and supernatural fright that we have 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:53.880 projected onto trains. Now, this is a topic that's going 0:01:53.920 --> 0:01:57.680 to take us into a bunch of different realms of folklore, history, science, 0:01:57.720 --> 0:02:00.640 and technology. But I think the best best place to 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:04.160 begin here is to look at some famous examples of 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:07.559 trains in horror fiction and rob if you don't mind, 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:09.960 I want to kick things off with an example of 0:02:10.200 --> 0:02:11.960 a story that I just read in full for the 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:13.680 first time this weekend. 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:15.959 Yeah, let's have it, okay. 0:02:16.000 --> 0:02:19.960 So the story in question is a short tale of ghosts, 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:24.280 spectral visions, and premonitions by Charles Dickens, and it's called 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:28.720 The Signalman. This story was published in eighteen sixty six 0:02:28.840 --> 0:02:31.920 as part of a set of short stories by Dickens 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.680 and a handful of other authors, with the collection as 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:37.400 a whole called Mugby Junction. So there's sort of a 0:02:37.440 --> 0:02:42.120 locomotive and railroad theme running throughout. This collection was a 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:46.600 special Christmas edition of a magazine that Dickens founded called 0:02:46.680 --> 0:02:49.519 All the Year Round. And I'm going to briefly summarize 0:02:49.520 --> 0:02:52.480 the story, including the ending, so as a warning, if 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:54.560 you want to read it without having the ending spoiled, 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:57.160 you could pause and do that now. It's fairly short. 0:02:57.200 --> 0:02:59.000 It only takes like twenty minutes or so to read. 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:04.520 The Signalman begins with an unnamed narrator who wanders to 0:03:04.600 --> 0:03:07.600 the edge of a huge trench in the earth around 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:10.720 sunset one day. And at the bottom of this trench 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:14.480 there is a railway line leading into a dark tunnel. 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:16.720 And at the edge of the tunnel, beside the tracks 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:20.520 there is a tiny box like signal house and the 0:03:20.600 --> 0:03:24.720 signalman who works it. So a bit of historical context 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:28.560 that helps you understand the story better. In the nineteenth century, 0:03:28.840 --> 0:03:33.359 signal operators were a crucial part of railroads. These were 0:03:33.440 --> 0:03:37.840 workers who had to stay at little houses beside the tracks, 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:41.400 and they would be equipped with lights and colored flags 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:45.040 and usually a telegraph line to relay information to and 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:49.240 about passing trains, which meant that signalers were pivotal to 0:03:49.560 --> 0:03:54.280 railroad safety. They gave the trains information, They passed the 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:58.160 information via flags or sometimes even shouted verbal signals. They 0:03:58.200 --> 0:04:01.520 passed information to oncoming in engine drivers, and this could 0:04:01.520 --> 0:04:04.720 be information about the conditions of the tracks ahead, like 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.320 is there an obstruction, a flood, some of their kind 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:10.640 of problem, or about the movements of other trains like 0:04:10.840 --> 0:04:13.440 was there a train stalled on the tracks ahead or 0:04:13.480 --> 0:04:17.040 somewhere it shouldn't be. And they also kept information about 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:19.839 when trains passed to make sure everything was running on 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:23.760 schedule and alert other stations and trains if there was 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:27.039 some kind of danger or delay. They were also sometimes 0:04:27.080 --> 0:04:30.400 responsible for operating track switches to divert the course of 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:32.279 a train, like if there's a fork in the line. 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:36.240 But because of the nature of their work, signal operators 0:04:36.279 --> 0:04:40.560 were sometimes characterized as kind of pitiable people like it 0:04:40.600 --> 0:04:44.400 was stressful work because the lives of many people were 0:04:44.400 --> 0:04:46.880 in their hands. If they made a mistake, it could 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:50.880 lead to disaster. But it was also isolated, lonely work 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:54.279 because they would be spending long shifts by themselves in 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:58.800 remote and sometimes unpleasant locations along the rail lines. So 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:01.560 anyway back to the story. The narrator comes to a 0:05:01.600 --> 0:05:04.320 deep cutting in the earth at the emergence of a 0:05:04.400 --> 0:05:07.000 rail tunnel, and he looks down into it and sees 0:05:07.040 --> 0:05:09.599 this tiny signal house and the man who works there 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:13.840 standing at the door. Curious. The narrator calls out and says, Helloa, 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:18.000 it's that one of those hellos that spelled halloa or 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:20.640 how you say that? Do you say the oa? Or 0:05:20.680 --> 0:05:23.960 is that just oh hello, I die I'm not sure. 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:28.520 It's like balbo helloa. Below there, He's trying to get 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:31.880 the man's attention. The man at first seems confused and 0:05:31.920 --> 0:05:36.000 even frightened, but then reluctantly invites the narrator down a 0:05:36.040 --> 0:05:38.520 hidden pathway to meet him. And here, I'm going to 0:05:38.560 --> 0:05:42.120 read a descriptive passage to communicate the atmosphere of the story. 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.520 The narrator says his post was in as solitary and 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:49.640 dismal a place as I ever saw. On either side, 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:53.800 a dripping, wet wall of jagged stone, excluding all view 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:57.080 but a strip of sky. The perspective one way only 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:01.480 a crooked prolongation of this great dungeon, the shorter perspective 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:04.960 in the other direction, terminating in a gloomy red light, 0:06:05.320 --> 0:06:08.479 and the gloomier entrance to a black tunnel, in whose 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:12.880 massive architecture there was a barbarous, depressing and forbidding air. 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:16.320 So little sunlight ever found its way to this spot 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:19.719 that it had an earthy, deadly smell, and so much 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:23.159 cold wind rushed through it that it struck chill to me, 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:25.719 as if I had left the natural world. 0:06:26.440 --> 0:06:28.359 Ooh, that is nice. 0:06:28.400 --> 0:06:32.560 Anyway, The narrator notices that the signalman is acting weird. 0:06:32.720 --> 0:06:36.960 He's preoccupied, even a bit haunted, And they eventually get 0:06:37.040 --> 0:06:40.599 to know one another and become familiar, and after some 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:43.840 time has passed between them, the signalman confesses what it 0:06:43.960 --> 0:06:48.880 is that's troubling him. At several times past, the signalman 0:06:49.040 --> 0:06:52.760 has had visions of a man in the night, posed 0:06:52.839 --> 0:06:56.360 against the red light, the danger light at the mouth 0:06:56.400 --> 0:07:00.000 of the tunnel. The figure stands with one arm raised up, 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:04.000 waving violently, and the other arm thrown over his eyes 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:07.720 like a blindfold. And when the signallman sees the figure, 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:11.600 he hears a voice calling out, saying, Helloa below there, 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:15.240 look out, And then as suddenly as it appeared, the 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:19.400 figure vanishes into darkness. And twice before, at the time 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.320 of the story, the signalman has seen this shadow man 0:07:22.440 --> 0:07:24.920 in the red light and heard the voice, and then 0:07:24.960 --> 0:07:29.880 immediately after those visions, disaster has fallen somewhere nearby on 0:07:29.920 --> 0:07:32.680 the tracks. A One time it was a terrible engine 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:35.920 collision in which many people were killed. Another time it 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:38.720 was the sudden and mysterious death of a young woman 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:43.160 riding on board a passing train. And so now the 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.760 signalman is not only haunted by this vision, but by 0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:49.320 what it means. When he sees it and when he 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.520 hears the voice, he knows there will soon be a disaster, 0:07:52.880 --> 0:07:55.480 and he wants to telegraph the station so he can 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:58.840 perhaps avert it. But he has no idea what the 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:01.640 disaster will be, and he can't explain the reason he 0:08:01.720 --> 0:08:04.280 knows it's coming, so he can't give a warning that 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:07.920 anybody will heed. So he's tortured with this terrible knowledge 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.600 that he can't use to help anyone. Now the narrator 0:08:11.680 --> 0:08:14.480 is troubled by all this. He seems to believe that 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:17.520 the man is suffering from a nervous condition, and the 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:19.800 next day he plans to come back and find a 0:08:19.800 --> 0:08:22.200 way to convince the signalman to go see a doctor. 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:25.760 But when the narrator arrives at the trench in the 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:28.760 earth the next day, he instead finds a large gathering 0:08:28.800 --> 0:08:33.400 of railroad officials on site. Apparently the signalman was cut 0:08:33.480 --> 0:08:35.880 down by a train the night before. He was standing 0:08:35.880 --> 0:08:38.600 in the tracks as if in a trance. The engine 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:41.360 driver saw him as the train was approaching and tried 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:42.880 to call out to him to get him to move 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.560 out of the way. And he was calling out halloa 0:08:45.840 --> 0:08:49.440 below there look out and waved one arm violently to 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:52.440 get the signalman's attention. But at the last moment the 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:55.240 engine driver was terrified of what he was about to see, 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:57.720 and so he threw his other arm over his face 0:08:57.840 --> 0:08:58.720 to cover his eyes. 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:00.520 Oh wow, I. 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:03.040 Think it's a wonderfully chilling ending. Even now just telling 0:09:03.120 --> 0:09:05.040 it again, I got a little bit of a little 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:09.480 bit of a shiver, a goosebump there. Now, you might think, 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.160 because a lot of ghost stories, what they're really about 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:14.520 is the ghost. And actually you could say that it's 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:17.320 arguable whether or not this should be classified as a 0:09:17.320 --> 0:09:21.040 ghost story or whether it's actually a premonition story that 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:23.520 just has a has a similar aesthetic reform to a 0:09:23.559 --> 0:09:28.640 ghost story. But but you could argue that, yeah, maybe 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:31.040 the setting is kind of incidental. What it's really about 0:09:31.120 --> 0:09:33.720 is the ghost and the human interaction. But I don't know. 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:37.080 I think the railway setting is not incidental here. I 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.680 think the setting along the tracks is actually quite thematically central. 0:09:41.120 --> 0:09:44.600 It matters that the signalman is a signalman, like what 0:09:44.800 --> 0:09:48.640 his job is is core to the anguish that he's 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:51.920 suffering with this terrible knowledge, and the fear and the 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:55.160 dread and the gloomy atmosphere and the danger are all 0:09:55.600 --> 0:10:00.240 centrally based on railroad technology. And you can tell well 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:05.520 and even Dickens himself had strange, i'd say, at best, 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:08.880 ambivalent feelings about rail travel and its effects on the world. 0:10:09.440 --> 0:10:12.280 There's a different story in this same collection, Mugby Junction, 0:10:13.320 --> 0:10:16.800 where Dickens is writing about a character looking down at 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:20.360 a railroad junction and says, but there were so many 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:23.480 lines gazing down upon them from a bridge at the junction, 0:10:23.920 --> 0:10:27.120 it was as if the concentrating companies formed a great 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:32.240 industrial exhibition of the works of extraordinary ground spiders that 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:33.280 spun iron. 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:36.280 Oh wow, that's nice anyway. 0:10:36.280 --> 0:10:38.080 All that to make the point that I think a 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:40.959 lot of these horror stories that are about trains are 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:44.959 not incidentally about trains. They're not just stories that could 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:47.280 be set anywhere that just happened to be a setting 0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:49.559 the author liked. I think a lot of them really 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:53.800 are in serious ways about trains and what trains mean. 0:10:54.760 --> 0:10:58.360 Yeah, yeah, And this is a really fascinating subject to 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:00.520 get into, and I feel like I I do have 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:02.760 to like mention at the top of all this that 0:11:03.520 --> 0:11:08.000 I love trains. I enjoy riding on trains, subway or otherwise, 0:11:08.120 --> 0:11:11.680 bullet trains everywhere ever I've really enjoyed trains. I live 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:14.360 next to a train track, I've lived next to it 0:11:14.440 --> 0:11:17.720 for over a decade, and I still find reasons to 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:22.320 enjoy watching the trains go by or especially the trucks 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:26.079 on the tracks and various maintenance equipment or special loads. 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.000 Occasionally that occurs, and I get a kick out of that. 0:11:29.559 --> 0:11:34.000 But so suffice to say, trains are very every day 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:38.400 to me, and I like them. I don't inherently think 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:41.240 they are creepy. And yet at the same time, there 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:44.160 is something about the train that fits so well, not 0:11:44.200 --> 0:11:46.800 only fits well within these stories, but serves as a 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:49.319 great skeleton for these stories. And a lot of it 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:54.679 comes down to ideas that the train itself there's something 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:58.280 unnatural about it. There's something really almost a sense of 0:11:58.280 --> 0:12:02.079 future shock that's never gone away, you know. And also 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:06.080 the idea that the train is a location is inherently unnatural, 0:12:06.400 --> 0:12:10.640 and there's something about it that is sort of inherently haunted. 0:12:11.200 --> 0:12:14.160 And there are different ways to approach this, and I 0:12:14.280 --> 0:12:17.319 was thinking about this, and I was looking up various 0:12:17.400 --> 0:12:20.040 short stories and works of horror and thinking about various 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:24.600 movies as well that use train settings, and some of 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:27.400 them are you know, you can find overt examples of like, Okay, 0:12:27.440 --> 0:12:29.880 this is a movie about a train with a killer 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:32.880 on the train. You know, it's you know, it is 0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:36.520 just a setting for murders. Plenty of examples of that, 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.200 but one of the examples that I think came to 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:43.079 my mind the most, and this is one that I 0:12:43.120 --> 0:12:46.280 remember watching an adaptation of it when I was younger. 0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:51.719 This comes from the works of Sarrothur Conan Doyle and 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:55.880 a particular short story titled The Adventure of the Copper Beaches. 0:12:56.760 --> 0:13:01.640 This would have been an eighteen ninety two tale, and 0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:05.559 I vividly remember watching the Jeremy Brett Granada television adaptation 0:13:05.600 --> 0:13:06.920 of this when I was a kid. You can find 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:09.280 this streaming, and you can get this on disc as well. 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.439 It's It's, It's. These were all really accurate adaptations of 0:13:12.480 --> 0:13:16.600 the shlock Home stories. But basically this does not involve 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:18.720 a haunted train. There's not even a murder on the 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:21.719 train or anything of that nature. It's just Holmes and 0:13:21.760 --> 0:13:25.120 Watson are taking the train into the countryside to look 0:13:25.160 --> 0:13:28.800 into a particular crime. And at first Holmes is consumed 0:13:28.800 --> 0:13:30.920 by his newspaper much of the way, you know, if 0:13:30.920 --> 0:13:33.480 it were today, he'd be on his his iPhone or something. 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.280 But he finally puts his newspaper way and he begins 0:13:36.280 --> 0:13:40.080 to survey the scenery outside the window and he makes 0:13:40.120 --> 0:13:43.120 a kind of terrifying observation. He goes on a bit 0:13:43.160 --> 0:13:45.600 of a ramt multiple paragraphs that I can't I can't 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:47.640 read all of it here, but I'm gonna read essentially 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:51.920 an abridged version. Okay, So Holmes says the following to Watson, 0:13:52.800 --> 0:13:55.920 you look at these scattered houses and you are impressed 0:13:55.960 --> 0:13:58.280 by their beauty. I look at them and the only 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.240 thought which comes to me is a feeling of their 0:14:00.240 --> 0:14:03.640 isolation and of the impunity with which crime may be 0:14:03.720 --> 0:14:07.080 committed there. They always fill me with a certain horror. 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.520 It is my belief, Watson, founded upon my experience, that 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:13.840 the lowest and vilest alleys in London do not present 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:17.079 a more dreadful record of sin than does the smiling 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:21.160 and beautiful countryside. The pressure of public opinion can do 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:24.240 in the town what the law cannot accomplish. There is 0:14:24.280 --> 0:14:27.040 no lane so vile that the scream of a tortured 0:14:27.120 --> 0:14:29.880 child or the thud of a drunkard's blow does not 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:34.000 beget sympathy and indignation among the neighbors. And then the 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:36.920 whole machinery of justice is ever so close that a 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.800 word of complaint can set it going. And there is 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.600 but a step between the crime and the dock. But 0:14:42.760 --> 0:14:45.760 look at these lonely houses. Think of the deeds of 0:14:45.800 --> 0:14:49.440 hellish cruelty, the hidden wickedness which may go on year in, 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.760 year out in such places, and none the wiser. It 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.600 is the five miles of country which makes the danger. 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.520 That's a very interesting paragraph because it strikes me as 0:14:58.560 --> 0:15:02.400 both containing some wisdom and truth but also representing a 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:06.320 pathological way of thinking. You know, it's like, yeah, there 0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.520 is some correct observation there, but also it's just it 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:13.400 reveals Holmes's way of looking at the world as just 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:17.000 like a place of dangers and miseries, and you can 0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:20.600 sort of do an inventory of the potential for dangers 0:15:20.600 --> 0:15:22.560 and miseries by looking at any place. 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:27.400 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it definitely reveals something of Holmes's nature. 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:31.360 And again it's the train itself is not creepy. Here 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:33.760 in the adaptation and in the book you get the 0:15:33.840 --> 0:15:36.240 very you know, Holmes the insense of oh, these are 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:38.520 just gentlemen on a train. But then when you get 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:42.720 this morbid observation, ultimately it's about how the countryside is 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:46.040 creepy and not even the city is creepy. But there's 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:48.960 something about the train technology's role in this. 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:52.880 Absolutely, yes, I would have no way of proving that 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.120 that Arthur Conan Doyle was actually trying to make this 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.920 particular point, but I would not be surprised if this 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:00.920 kind of observation was actually a state. And about the 0:16:00.960 --> 0:16:04.960 way a train changes the way you look at the world. 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:08.760 Yeah, yeah, it's about the vantage point that it provides 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:13.080 the broadening human travel abilities, It permits homes a chance 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.040 to observe something terrifying about human nature and human civilization. 0:16:16.720 --> 0:16:19.600 And it's a scene that I think just got stuck 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:21.680 in my head at an early age. So I literally 0:16:21.720 --> 0:16:24.120 think about the scene almost anytime I'm on a train, 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:27.160 certainly if it's a novel train and I get to 0:16:27.400 --> 0:16:29.640 look out at the countryside. 0:16:29.000 --> 0:16:31.520 Which, by the way, I love doing rob I'm like you, 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:34.960 I also very much love trains. I mostly have just 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:39.000 positive feelings about them. So I did not pick this 0:16:39.080 --> 0:16:43.360 topic because I think trains are inherently creepy, but maybe 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:47.480 because they're sort of cuddly to me. I wonder I'm 0:16:47.560 --> 0:16:50.400 interested in the way is that they might bring terrors 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:52.600 to mind for many people, especially people in say the 0:16:52.680 --> 0:16:53.560 nineteenth century. 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:56.720 Yeah yeah, but seriously, I'll be riding a train like 0:16:56.800 --> 0:16:59.120 even more recently, a few months back, I had to 0:16:59.160 --> 0:17:02.000 ride the bullet train Japan. Look out of the beautiful 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:05.639 countryside and yet here Sherlock Holmes whispering my ear. They 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:07.320 might be murdering in there. 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:11.119 So thank you, Sherlock, but they think of the horror 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:11.879 is hidden beyond. 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:12.400 Yes. 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.240 Now, another tale that comes to mind concerning trains is 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.560 the Ray Bradbury story The Town where No One Got Off, 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.480 And I'm mostly familiar with this one from a nineteen 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:37.840 eighty six adaptation on the Ray Bradbury Theater television show 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:41.840 starring a young Jeff Goldblin Oh or you know. This 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.280 was what the same year as The Fly, so you 0:17:44.320 --> 0:17:47.200 know young Jeff Goblin. I don't remember how old he 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:49.719 would have been at this point in his career, but anyway, 0:17:50.920 --> 0:17:53.040 so this is another story where the train itself is 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:56.800 not creepy, but there's something about the way it connects 0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:59.920 people in places that takes on a very sinister air. 0:18:00.600 --> 0:18:02.679 So in this story we follow a man from the 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.240 city this is Jeff Goblum's character in the adaptation, who 0:18:06.240 --> 0:18:08.240 takes a train ride out into the country side to 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:12.959 confirm according to him, his ideals about country living, and 0:18:13.080 --> 0:18:17.120 his of course curiosity with this particular stop where nobody 0:18:17.119 --> 0:18:19.640 ever gets off. You know, what is it with this town? 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.000 And you know this also ties into some general fascination 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.000 with train travel. You're like, well, what is this stop? 0:18:25.000 --> 0:18:29.360 Who lives here? Who are these people? And he meets 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:33.920 up and tags along with an old countryman during this journey. 0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:37.520 And there's a twist though, and I'm about to spoil it, 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:40.080 so skip ahead, pause, and so forth if you don't 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:42.480 want it to be spoiled. But the twist is that 0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.080 the city man has ventured out to the country to 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:48.320 commit the perfect murder of a stranger, and the old 0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:51.359 man has lured him out to do the same, to 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:55.040 commit the perfect murder of a city guy who has 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:57.840 wandered into the country. And I'm going to read it 0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:00.440 just a quick quote here from the original rapere Very 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:04.080 short story. Now, the darkness that had brought us together 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.480 stood between the old man, the station, the town, the 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:10.639 forest were lost in the night. For an hour. I 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:15.359 stood in the roaring blast, staring back at all that darkness. 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:19.240 So this is a story that works in a number 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:22.359 of ways, exploring course just the darkness of human nature 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:25.560 and you know, temptation to do evil and so forth 0:19:25.600 --> 0:19:29.040 our attitudes towards others, and perhaps as well a little 0:19:29.080 --> 0:19:31.679 commentary on the idea that you still see in modern 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:35.080 objections to say, the expansion of city rail, that oh, well, 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:36.840 if you do this, it's going to allow criminals to 0:19:36.920 --> 0:19:39.720 just move around super easily. They'll just they'll just go 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.680 right into the into the really nice parts of town 0:19:42.720 --> 0:19:46.399 and just start doing crimes. But uh, and then on 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:48.320 top of all of this, I feel like this there 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:51.480 is also this sense of the train as a technology 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.840 that shortens the distance between individuals, so it brings us 0:19:55.840 --> 0:20:00.359 closer together. But does it maybe bring us two close? 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:03.119 You know, does it just it just opens up the 0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:06.600 room for it breaks down barriers that should be in place, 0:20:07.240 --> 0:20:07.960 that sort of thing. 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.000 Hmmm, I'm gonna have to think on that. But in 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:12.760 a minute, I do want to get into talking about 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:15.160 some of the most common themes I feel like I've 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:18.760 observed in train related horror stories, and so maybe this 0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:20.560 will come back up then. But before we do that, 0:20:20.680 --> 0:20:23.000 I know you wanted to mention a few more examples. 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:24.800 Yeah, some of these are gonna be a little more 0:20:24.840 --> 0:20:26.679 in passing, but I was just trying to list off 0:20:26.680 --> 0:20:28.800 a few in my head that stood out. The Midnight 0:20:28.840 --> 0:20:30.200 Meat Train by Clive Barker. 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:30.840 Yeah. 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:33.520 If you're only familiar with the movie, let me just 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:36.000 remind you that the original Books of Blood short story 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:36.880 is quite good. 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:39.760 It's one of those stories where, if this makes any sense, 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:42.760 I kept expecting it to turn out to be less 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:47.320 literal than it was, and like the literalness of the 0:20:47.400 --> 0:20:49.440 payoff is actually kind of genius. 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.720 Yeah, and I think it works better in short story format. 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:57.960 Another one is The Tall Grass by Joe R. Lansdale. 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:02.280 This one was adapted on the Love and Robots television 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:06.640 series the animated anthology series, and it's quite good. Involves 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:09.280 a train sort of I forget if it breaks down 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:11.560 or slows down, but it kind of gets into that 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:13.840 area of like, oh, the train is something that connects 0:21:14.200 --> 0:21:16.560 point A to point B, but then what goes on 0:21:16.640 --> 0:21:19.080 in between and the idea that you know, you're you're 0:21:19.119 --> 0:21:22.240 often going through you know, very isolated countryside or you know, 0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:26.359 so it seems to the observer. Yeah, let's see getting 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:30.520 into the realm of not only train horror fiction, but 0:21:30.600 --> 0:21:33.000 subway horror fiction, which we already got into a little 0:21:33.000 --> 0:21:35.840 bit of midnight me Train. There's an excellent older weird 0:21:35.840 --> 0:21:40.120 fiction tale called Far Below by Robert Barbara Johnson, and 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:42.960 this one is adapted into an okay episode of the 0:21:43.000 --> 0:21:47.080 anthology series Monsters, but the original short story is fabulous. 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:52.280 It involves people becoming ghouls in the deep tunnels beneath 0:21:52.359 --> 0:21:53.080