1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. What is up, 2 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:16,799 Speaker 1: party people, It's me Jason McIntyre, Straight Fire, Thursday, April eight. 3 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: Not a ton happening in sports, So we have a 4 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: phenomenal interview for you. Seth Wickersham of ESPN. He's the 5 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,520 Speaker 1: guy who writes books on all the NFL big names. 6 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: He writes the takeout pieces on Jerry Jones and Roger 7 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: Goodell and Bill Belichick. And you're gonna learn a lot 8 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: in today's podcast. I'll just say that, so I don't 9 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: wanna jumble up the beginning of the podcast Straight Fire 10 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:47,280 Speaker 1: with um Mike Gobbley Google on the NBA. Listen. Kevin 11 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 1: Durant returned. Everybody's happy to see him. You know, he 12 00:00:51,320 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 1: returned against the Pelicans. K D nineteen minutes, did not 13 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: miss a shot from the field, did not Mr three, 14 00:00:58,120 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: did not miss a free throw, seventy seven and five, 15 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 1: and the Nets roll the Pelicans. Poor Zion Zion has 16 00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: to be just begging to get the hell out of 17 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 1: New Orleans only in his second year. And that's really 18 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: really the biggest story in sports. Really. You know, Utah 19 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: Phoenix was fun. That felt like a Western Conference semifinal game. 20 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,200 Speaker 1: But overall, like you know, the big story right now 21 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 1: in sports that's difficult to talk about is Deshaun Watson 22 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: and his situation. Two women have now come forward filing 23 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:33,600 Speaker 1: criminal um charges against Watson, two massage therapists, and I 24 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:36,200 Speaker 1: just don't feel comfortable enough digging deep. I will say 25 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: it's starting to look bleak for Watson. Although there is 26 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,480 Speaker 1: not a ton of evidence yet, it sounds like it's 27 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: maybe coming. I don't know. Let's just let's just not 28 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: do a ton here at the outset, and let's just 29 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 1: jump into a phenomenal interview with ESPN's features writer take 30 00:01:55,120 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: out writer Seth Wickership Jason likes to think he knows 31 00:02:02,720 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: everything when it comes to sports. I know what sports 32 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 1: fans want, but for everything he doesn't, he knows a 33 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:12,040 Speaker 1: guy who does. Let's just say, I know a guy 34 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: who knows a guy who knows another guy. All right, 35 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,919 Speaker 1: let's welcome into straight Fire a features writer. We haven't 36 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 1: had a lot of features writers on the podcast, simply 37 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: because it's kind of a difficult position these days. But 38 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 1: this guy does it better than anybody. Seth Wickersham ESPN. 39 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: I've known him. I don't know, probably what at least 40 00:02:32,480 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 1: ten years. Seth. Yeah. Yeah, there's like a weird journalism 41 00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: blog community that sprung up in the mid two thousands, 42 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: and Seth Wickersham was like everybody wanted to talk to 43 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,959 Speaker 1: him because he went from college to ESPN and now 44 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 1: he's like, uh, you know, the guy for takeouts at ESPN. 45 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 1: How's the pandemic holding up for you guys in Connecticut? 46 00:02:53,160 --> 00:02:56,720 Speaker 1: You know, it's fine. I mean, you know, there's a 47 00:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: lot of people that have had you know, much tougher 48 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: you know, years than than we have. And you know, 49 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: I've kind of feel like that we're doing okay within 50 00:03:05,200 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: the general context of the world being a mess. Pretty 51 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: grateful for that. That's a win and I'll take that. 52 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: Has it impacted your job a lot because you're used 53 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: to getting on planes going and hanging out with people, 54 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,960 Speaker 1: spending time with them in their community, with their family, 55 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 1: and I'm assuming all that's gone in the last year, right, Yeah, 56 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 1: I mean I've done some interviews in person, but yeah, 57 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: you're right. I mean, you know, nobody got into this 58 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 1: work to do interviews over zoom and you know, we 59 00:03:33,960 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 1: want to be with people writing in their car, being 60 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: at their house, um, and you know, for the better 61 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: part of twenty years that I've been at ESPN. I mean, 62 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 1: that's been my job. And um, you know, being at 63 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: the combine and and being at the bars at night 64 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: and chit chatting with executives and gms, or being an 65 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: owner's meetings, and you know, those events are just not happening, 66 00:03:56,640 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 1: and so the travel for them just isn't happening. But 67 00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: you know, I'm pre optimistic that maybe in the second 68 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 1: half of this year things will return, you know more 69 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: it's normal, but I think it's gonna weep be a while. 70 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: So you recently wrote a book. Obviously, that's why you're 71 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: here mostly we also have other questions for you. But 72 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: a book on Bill Belichick, and I'm just curious timeline 73 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: with the pandemic and COVID and everything. Had you already 74 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: sent everything to the publisher by what Latin March of 75 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: this hit? Well, so, um, I haven't finished it yet 76 00:04:26,000 --> 00:04:28,799 Speaker 1: it actually comes out and it actually comes out in October. 77 00:04:29,080 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: Oh geez, but it's been announced and so um, you know, 78 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: but with the timing with that was interesting too, And 79 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's more about Belichick and Brady and 80 00:04:37,720 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 1: the Patriots, you know, dynastic two decade run. But um, 81 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 1: you know that the book had a trigger in it 82 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 1: where they wanted the publisher wanted the manuscript about a 83 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:56,080 Speaker 1: year or so after either Brady left or retired or 84 00:04:56,200 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: Belichick retired, so you know, basically when the band broke up, 85 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:02,719 Speaker 1: they want the book about a year after that. And 86 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 1: so I'm thinking, great, you know, I signed the contract. 87 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,600 Speaker 1: You know, sometime in early twenty I'm thinking, this is great. 88 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 1: I'll have all this time. I'm gonna fly here, I'm 89 00:05:12,560 --> 00:05:14,920 Speaker 1: gonna get to see this person. You know, I'm gonna 90 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: go to I live in New England, so I'm gonna 91 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 1: go to all these Patriots games. And then you know, 92 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 1: within a week, the pandemic hits and Tom Brady leaves 93 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,080 Speaker 1: and I'm going, oh my gosh, like, how am I 94 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 1: going to get this thing done? But you know, I 95 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 1: think the fortunate thing is that there's a lot of 96 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 1: people that live in the area that I could drive to, 97 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: and that made it helpful. I did. I did get 98 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 1: on the plane a couple of times to visit various people, 99 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 1: but um, you know, it was a tap. It was 100 00:05:41,839 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: a challenge to me to do it. And again, I'm 101 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: not done with the book yet. Um, but you know, 102 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: I don't know if I would advise author first time 103 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:51,719 Speaker 1: authors doing that, you know, signing on to do a 104 00:05:51,720 --> 00:05:54,920 Speaker 1: book in the middle of a pandemic. Yeah, risky stuff. UM, 105 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 1: I do have to say. So. I had interviewed Brady 106 00:05:57,240 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: a couple of times back when I was at US Weekly, 107 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 1: uh before he was Tom Brady the global superstar. And 108 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,000 Speaker 1: I tell my kids about that now and they're like, 109 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: you interview Brady, what's he like? You know? And I 110 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: was like, listen, this was like a six minute interview 111 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: at a Victoria's secret party or at the super Bowl 112 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 1: point it was. It was like, come on, no big deal. 113 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: You now have spent lots of time with the likes 114 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:22,239 Speaker 1: of Brady, Peyton, Manning, Odell, I mean everybody basically who's 115 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: big for feature stories or books. I'm curious, what is 116 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: it like spending considerable amount of time with those guys. Well, 117 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 1: it's different, you know. Somebody asked me, I did a 118 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 1: story on John Elway a couple of years ago, and 119 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: the other day somebody asked me, what was that? Weird? 120 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: Because I grew up I was born in Colorado, so 121 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: I was a big Broncos fan, and you know, was 122 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: that weird interviewing Elway when he was like your childhood hero? 123 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:50,080 Speaker 1: And the answer is it It really wasn't because at 124 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: that point, you know that that version of me and 125 00:06:52,320 --> 00:06:55,719 Speaker 1: that version of him are long gone. And so after 126 00:06:55,839 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: five minutes, it's just this person that I'm talking to 127 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: in in, you know, asking questions that reflect my curiosities. 128 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: Like any other subject. With people like Tom Brady and 129 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: Peyton Manning, Um, it's a little different because they are 130 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: my age, you know, and you know you always wonder 131 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: I played high school football, and you know, you always wondering, well, 132 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: who's gonna be the Joe Montana and the John Elway 133 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: out of this group of of young men across America? 134 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:26,040 Speaker 1: And it was those guys. And so that part of 135 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 1: it's really interesting to me. Um, you know, but I'd 136 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 1: say that like that's you know, that's kind of it 137 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,280 Speaker 1: in terms of, you know, they're being a certain um, 138 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: you know, glamour to it. I mean, you know, both 139 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: of those guys, you know, I think are are are 140 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 1: pretty sincere people, and um, you know both of them, 141 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: you know, are are people that I've heard had, you know, 142 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:50,440 Speaker 1: these professional relationships with for you know, about two decades now. Yeah, 143 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: so Belichick loses Tom Brady and you you're gonna do 144 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: a book on the guy. I'm assuming he was not 145 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,600 Speaker 1: very welcoming to you coming in and trying to talk 146 00:08:01,640 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: to him and spend time and talk to people around 147 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: him about essentially the band breaking up. Right, Well, the 148 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,920 Speaker 1: book spans a longer time of that. I mean, clearly, 149 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: I get into, like, you know, the past couple of 150 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,400 Speaker 1: years when you know, things have been more strained than 151 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:17,320 Speaker 1: they were at the beginning, and you know, that's something 152 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: that's been well documented both by me and by other people, 153 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:22,720 Speaker 1: and I hope to add some some new reporting to it. 154 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 1: But um, you know, I've written a lot about Belichick 155 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 1: over the years, with um cooperation and without cooperation, and 156 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: it's just something that I'm used to and I feel 157 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: like that, you know, reporting on him and writing about 158 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: him is just something that I feel confident about doing, 159 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: you know, just based on the experiences that I've had 160 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,680 Speaker 1: the past couple you know, I guess my first conversation 161 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 1: with Bill was in November of two thousand one. I'm 162 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: Tom Brady. When Tom Brady, nobody even knew he was 163 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:56,080 Speaker 1: going to finish the year as a starter, and so, 164 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: you know, I just I feel I feel good about 165 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 1: my my ability to a you know, report on someone 166 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 1: who's as interesting as he is. You know, whether or 167 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,680 Speaker 1: not he cooperates. How much do you think it helps 168 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 1: that you're not there day to day, after every loss, 169 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 1: after every win at practice in his grill, asking questions 170 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,640 Speaker 1: and you're you know, zooming out and getting a big picture. 171 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: Do you automatically think he's more likely to talk to 172 00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 1: you and people of that nature. I don't know, I honestly, 173 00:09:25,640 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: you know, that's a question for him. I think that, 174 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: like you know, he's cooperated with books in the past, 175 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: and there are books that he hasn't cooperated with, and 176 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: so I don't know what into what went into all 177 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 1: those things. I think that with Bill Um, you know, 178 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:41,760 Speaker 1: I think that he appreciates depth. And I think that 179 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,440 Speaker 1: like no matter who you are, if you're coming from 180 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: a small paper or from NFL films or ESPN, whatever 181 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: it is, I think that like the things that he's 182 00:09:50,679 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: more inclined to cooperate with are things that you know, 183 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: ask questions that are just beyond who pulled their hamstring 184 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,720 Speaker 1: In practice, I think that he's He's an interesting guy 185 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:03,520 Speaker 1: because he's in a lot of ways more willing to 186 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 1: share how he works and open up those you know, 187 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: break down those walls than he is to disclose exactly 188 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: that who has a pulled hamstring? Just um, what about 189 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: the end there? And obviously got the book and you 190 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:18,600 Speaker 1: have stuff you you haven't won't want to reveal yet. 191 00:10:18,600 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: But there was a lot of reporting that Brady was 192 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:25,560 Speaker 1: sick of in the um, like the player meetings. You know, 193 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: they'll show film and Belichick will say, look at this 194 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: terrible pass by Brady. I could go get Johnny quarterback 195 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 1: at the local high school. He could make that throw 196 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: and it's okay to like do that a couple of 197 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:39,320 Speaker 1: times to a young quarterback. After two decades of getting 198 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 1: beaten down despite all the Super Bowl rings, apparently him 199 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: and Giselle were kind of sick of it. Um how 200 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: much how difficult is it to report around that when 201 00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:50,880 Speaker 1: that stuff is out there, but you may find other 202 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: stuff or new stuff that contras that it's not no, 203 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 1: it's I find it accurate. Like I reported back in um, 204 00:10:57,559 --> 00:11:01,079 Speaker 1: you know, I of the story and the Patriots in 205 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: January twenty eight, team that was started getting at some 206 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: of the disagreements that they had had that year over 207 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 1: the TV twelve method and Alex Alex Guerrero and Jimmy 208 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:15,319 Speaker 1: Garoppolo and you know, and um, you know, at the time, 209 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,040 Speaker 1: Brady was coming off his fifth Super Bowl ring they 210 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:20,160 Speaker 1: had won against the Falcons, and I think he was, 211 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: you know, it was just starting to get old. And 212 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,760 Speaker 1: they played the Houston Texans in the playoffs that year 213 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: and I'm sorry the year before, um, and they won, 214 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: and they ended up going on to win the Super Bowl. 215 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:35,680 Speaker 1: But in that game, Tom didn't play particularly well. I 216 00:11:35,679 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: think he threw two interceptions and he completed like eighteen 217 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: of thirty eight passes. And Bill lit him up in 218 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 1: that meeting after the game in front of the entire 219 00:11:44,760 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: team like very few people had ever seen, you know, 220 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: stuff like this is gonna get us beat when he 221 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 1: throws an interception or whatever. And so I think it 222 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:56,160 Speaker 1: was getting old. And you know, I think that, like 223 00:11:56,679 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: you know, there's been a lot of reporting that it 224 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:02,080 Speaker 1: was bothering Giselle also, especially after but um, yeah, I 225 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,199 Speaker 1: mean Bill, Bill that Bill Belichick's the first one to 226 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 1: admit that he's a tough guy to play for. And um, 227 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: you know, I think for a while people thought, well, 228 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: you know, Bill holding Tom accountable in meetings is about 229 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: showing the rest the team that nobody is above criticism, 230 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: as if it was a piece of performance art. And 231 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:27,920 Speaker 1: I don't think that that was ever really true. I 232 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: think that Bill takes you know, he lives to win 233 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:37,560 Speaker 1: the super Bowl, and he criticizes players or situations based 234 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: on problems that he sees, and he is dead serious 235 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: when he does it. Everybody's tried to get at why 236 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,400 Speaker 1: Belichick is like that who continually criticizes a five time 237 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,199 Speaker 1: Super Bowl winner in New England. And you know, I 238 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: looked generally to father, I've getten like introspective on life 239 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: as I get older and watch my kids kind of 240 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 1: become me. And you know, Bill Belichick's dad was I guess, 241 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: in the Navy and was one of these very rigid 242 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: my way or the highway kind of guys. How much 243 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,400 Speaker 1: do we know about why Belichick is the way he is, Well, 244 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: his dad, his dad worked at maybe for a long time, 245 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,959 Speaker 1: but he he did serve in in in World War Two. Um, 246 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,720 Speaker 1: you know, I think that it's a great question, and 247 00:13:16,760 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 1: it's one of those questions that I explore in the book, 248 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:21,240 Speaker 1: and I think that, like there was a moment where 249 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,840 Speaker 1: he was a young coach where and there were several moments, 250 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:27,400 Speaker 1: but I think that a lot of them crystallized when 251 00:13:27,400 --> 00:13:33,160 Speaker 1: he went to the Giants and he um just wasn't 252 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: respected and a lot of the players felt that, you know, 253 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: they were more in awe of Steve Belichick showing up 254 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:44,600 Speaker 1: at practice than they were of Bill being there and 255 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: being you know, coaching special teams and working with the defense, 256 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: and you know a lot of guys just kind of 257 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: ignored his instruction for a while. And I think that 258 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 1: there was a turning point in the mid eighties where 259 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:03,000 Speaker 1: you know, Bill Parcels, you know, decided that he was 260 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 1: not gonna be to get the most out of the team. 261 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 1: He was not gonna be friends with every player anymore, 262 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 1: and he felt like that he had to like coach 263 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: these guys hard, and if they disliked him, but if 264 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:16,680 Speaker 1: it got the most out of them, he was okay 265 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: with that trade off. And they end up winning the 266 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: Super Bowl against Denver that year. And I think that 267 00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: Bill came in, you know, Parcels hands him the defense. 268 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,520 Speaker 1: Lawrence Taylor, speaking for a lot of players, is like 269 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: what I don't think, So I'm not gonna listen to 270 00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: this guy, like, are you joking? And you know, Bill 271 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: had to figure out a way to earn his respect 272 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: and in the respect of those players his way, And 273 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: I think he also learned a lot from, you know, 274 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: the way that Parcels shifted his coaching style. And so 275 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,760 Speaker 1: I think that when you look at Bill getting formed 276 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 1: as a coach and getting at what you were trying 277 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 1: to ask at, I think that he played to his strengths, 278 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: which was being able to analyze the game, communicate assignments, 279 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: and give players a roadmap to victory. And he also 280 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:06,160 Speaker 1: became fairly ruthless about whether or not he was liked. 281 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: And Romeo Carnell had the great line in the two 282 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: Bills for thirty where he goes, you know, I think 283 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: Bill Belichick kind of liked, you know, taking on that 284 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: persona because that way he didn't have to be nice 285 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: to anybody, to be a jerk to everybody. But spin 286 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 1: it forward, you lose Brady. He says, I'm done with 287 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:28,160 Speaker 1: this crap, I'm out of here, and they get Cam Newton. 288 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: It doesn't work out. I do wonder looking forward to 289 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:35,040 Speaker 1: next year. Obviously, Belichick changed his persona with free agency, right, 290 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:39,120 Speaker 1: they usually don't spend a ton. They went hog wild, seth. 291 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: Do we think we're gonna see a kinder, gentler Bill 292 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: Belichick this season with the Patriots. Well, I'll go back 293 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: a little bit. I do think that Bill adjusted, and 294 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,560 Speaker 1: um ESPN Jeff Darlington reported, I think during the year 295 00:15:51,640 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: that they beat the Rams and the Super Bowl. Um, 296 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: you know, that they were vibing much better that that 297 00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 1: you know, Bill had eased off the Annie Foxboro bit, 298 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,840 Speaker 1: and that you know Tom, you know, Alex Guerrero had 299 00:16:04,840 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: had some of his privileges reinstated, and that they were 300 00:16:07,080 --> 00:16:09,480 Speaker 1: getting you know. I think that there's still some issues 301 00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 1: under the surface, but generally speaking, those are two very 302 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: professional men who on Sundays don't want to let each 303 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:17,640 Speaker 1: other down, and so I think that they were vibing 304 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: much better. I think that Tom left because he wanted 305 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: something different and also because the Patriots didn't really want 306 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: to commit to him beyond a year to year contract. UM. 307 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: I thought the most interesting thing from this past year 308 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: watching New England was not that they went seven and nine, 309 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,600 Speaker 1: was not that, you know, Cam Newton struggled, especially after 310 00:16:36,640 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: he returned from COVID. But as the Belichick was pretty 311 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: transparent about some things that normally he wouldn't be so 312 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,200 Speaker 1: transparent about. I mean, in the off season he said 313 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: something to the effect of, you know, everything we did 314 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: was designed to help Tom Brady and with Tom Brady 315 00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:57,320 Speaker 1: in mind, and I thought that was a pretty blunt 316 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: statement to make. And then during the season he comes 317 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:04,040 Speaker 1: out on the radio and he says, you know, we 318 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: sold out, and you know, from a salary cap standpoint, 319 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:09,919 Speaker 1: we sold out and we won three Super Bowls, and 320 00:17:09,920 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: we made it to a fourth, and we made it 321 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 1: to an NFC Championship game, and you know, now we're 322 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,440 Speaker 1: this is the consequence of it is the seven and 323 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 1: nine year And I thought that was a really amazing 324 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:22,760 Speaker 1: thing for Belichick to say in the middle of a season. 325 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,280 Speaker 1: It's just it's very atypical. So I hear that, and 326 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,000 Speaker 1: I think the actions speak louder than words, right, I mean, 327 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: if your Brady in that locker room and he's treating 328 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,479 Speaker 1: you like garbage, and you know, you lose Gronkowski and 329 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: they say we're not going to get another tight end, 330 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:38,720 Speaker 1: you know, like I was sorry, Tom, Like I don't 331 00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: know where are you on the actions versus words. Well, 332 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:43,960 Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of issues, and one of 333 00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: them was just, you know, the Patriots are always who 334 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 1: they are. They're not well until this year, but you know, 335 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: Bill always felt like that he could find guys who 336 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: just knew how to get open and Tom would find them, 337 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,280 Speaker 1: and that Tom, you know, they always struggled in September, right, 338 00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: It was because they were using you know, September as 339 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: an extended training amp, and you know Tom was a 340 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: huge component of that because he could cover up so 341 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: many holes. And I think that by the end, you know, 342 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 1: remember they did sign Antonio Brown and Brady was pretty excited. 343 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: They were moving the ball pretty well with him, and 344 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: then you know, the Sports Illustrated stories come out, the organization, 345 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,880 Speaker 1: especially Robert Kraft, makes a decision that they can't continue 346 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:23,919 Speaker 1: with Antonio and that was after that that, you know, 347 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,160 Speaker 1: even though they were winning, the way they were playing 348 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: on offense, it was just deeply frustrating to Tom Brady. 349 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: And I think you saw that in the playoff game 350 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:36,760 Speaker 1: where his last game there, you know, against the Tennessee Titans. 351 00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: You know, they just the receivers just couldn't really get 352 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:43,400 Speaker 1: any separation yeah, So fast forward to Tom Brady and Tampa. 353 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:45,960 Speaker 1: He pulled Gronk out of retirement. I thought the Gronk 354 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: thing was such a slap in the face to beligiate, 355 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:50,880 Speaker 1: like I'm retiring. I'd rather retire than play with you, 356 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: but I'm coming back to play for Tampa. I mean, 357 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:57,560 Speaker 1: another shot at Belichick there. But well, and maybe you 358 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,199 Speaker 1: know before last season, they did a video for the 359 00:19:01,240 --> 00:19:03,960 Speaker 1: Bucks in house media and it was like called Tommy 360 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: and Gronky a Friendship or Tommy and Gronka Friendship Story. 361 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 1: And they did this video together where they were in 362 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: training camp and they were in lounge chairs and I 363 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,520 Speaker 1: think Brady's feet were in a pool if I remember right, 364 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 1: and you know they're they're just laughing and it looks 365 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: like they're like a resort and they were joking and laughing, 366 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:27,639 Speaker 1: and you know, that's just stuff that doesn't happen in 367 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: New England. I mean, I thought that was like a 368 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: clear the fact that the video was made and released 369 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 1: and you know, here these guys are joking and lounging 370 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:38,840 Speaker 1: and hanging out and you know, the season has even 371 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: started yet. I thought that was a very different. That 372 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:44,840 Speaker 1: was one thing that was like an indication that the 373 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:47,359 Speaker 1: culture was definitely going to be different there. Yeah, and 374 00:19:47,359 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 1: the culture of the Patriot Way. Brady was on one 375 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,879 Speaker 1: of these morning shows this week and said, you know, 376 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,240 Speaker 1: I thought for the longest time the Patriot way was 377 00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: the only way, and now I'm learning in Tampa there's 378 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:00,199 Speaker 1: more ways that you can be victorious. And you know 379 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: that subtly feels like a shot at Belichick. I don't 380 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,119 Speaker 1: want how would you characterize their their friendship now? And 381 00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,120 Speaker 1: if you're if you don't want to speculate, that's fine, 382 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: But I don't know. I mean, it's they only they know, 383 00:20:13,359 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 1: you know. The sense I get was that, you know, 384 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 1: I think that things were hard at the end, but 385 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:22,440 Speaker 1: I also think that Tom cycled to a place mentally 386 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: when he left where he felt good about his relationships 387 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:29,080 Speaker 1: when he walked out of New England, and I think 388 00:20:29,119 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 1: that was important to him. Now, whether his relationship with 389 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: Robert Kraft is better than his relationship with Belichick, you know, 390 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,640 Speaker 1: time will tell. I mean, but I think that by 391 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:43,479 Speaker 1: the time he left there, I think that he wanted 392 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: to leave where he was not feeling animous. That's that's 393 00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: what I understand. I do One quick note on Tampa. 394 00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: I saw that they retained all twenty two of their starters, 395 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: and that's a stunning number to me for a Super 396 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:00,359 Speaker 1: Bowl champ. A lot of it has to do with 397 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: Brady in the ways contract with structured um. I thought, 398 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: you know, like everybody had fun with the oh Brady 399 00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: won the breakup with Belichick. But now it's almost I 400 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: don't know if you want to say, like he's getting 401 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 1: married on like television off of a breakup like this 402 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 1: is this feels very significant for Brady, like he specifically 403 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: wants to win another So there's no like, hey, we 404 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,040 Speaker 1: just got lucky, Like, look it's me in the who 405 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: matters more, Brady or Belichick. Do you think there's anything 406 00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,800 Speaker 1: to that in my just speculating out of my ass, Well, 407 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 1: I think he wants to win, and I also think that, 408 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:36,199 Speaker 1: you know, one of the most interesting things. I think 409 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: that one of the things that Brady and Belichick have 410 00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:43,439 Speaker 1: in common is that they are world class believers in 411 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 1: what's next, you know, and that goes down to the 412 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: next play. I mean, they just don't panic over a 413 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:54,720 Speaker 1: bad play, and they believe in the potential of what 414 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: you can do on the next set of downs. Or 415 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 1: the next possession, whatever it might be. And you know, 416 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: the Bucks weren't a great team all year. I mean 417 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:06,439 Speaker 1: they they I don't think anyone doubted that they were 418 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: going to make the playoffs. But ending November, remember Brady 419 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: and Belichick always say, well, Thanksgiving is the time when 420 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,360 Speaker 1: teams really define themselves. And after Thanksgiving it still took 421 00:22:16,359 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 1: a little bit of time for the Bucks to kind 422 00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 1: of find their their stride. But when they did, they 423 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: really caught fire. And you know, they go to New Orleans. 424 00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: You know, they have the game changing play in the 425 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 1: third quarter where they recover the fumble at midfield that 426 00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:34,880 Speaker 1: kind of opens up that game. You know they um 427 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:36,720 Speaker 1: you know then that then they're able to go to 428 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,719 Speaker 1: the Packer, you know, go to Green Bay and you know, 429 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,600 Speaker 1: benefit for some pretty bad coaching at the end of 430 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 1: the first half and the end of the second half, 431 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: and you know, the next thing, you know, here they are. 432 00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,159 Speaker 1: And you know, it's just one of the most interesting 433 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 1: things that Brady and Bills and I think that, like 434 00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: they always believe in the potential of what could be, 435 00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: you know what of the potential of the next player, 436 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 1: the next game. And I think that that's I is 437 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 1: a pretty unique mentality. Fox Sports Radio has the best 438 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 1: sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch all of our 439 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: shows at Fox Sports Radio dot com and within the 440 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio app. Search f s R to listen live. 441 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: I want to pivot to talk about features writing. I 442 00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: don't know about you, seth. Um. I get asked probably 443 00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: more about any any takes that I have or gambling advice. 444 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: Hey man, how the hell do I get your job? 445 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: How do I get in this industry? It is very difficult, 446 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:32,639 Speaker 1: and I think we came up on the seth same path, Seth, 447 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 1: where you get an internship in college, maybe unpaid, and 448 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:40,479 Speaker 1: then you kind of get on the path to success. Right, 449 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 1: you had internships, I'm assuming in college? Right? What what? 450 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 1: What was your path? Yeah? So, I you know, I 451 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:48,000 Speaker 1: went to high school in Alaska. Then I went to 452 00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,000 Speaker 1: college at the University of Missouri, and um, you know, 453 00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: I did internships in college. My first year. I did 454 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,520 Speaker 1: it at the Anchorage Daily News back home, and it 455 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 1: was paid, but it wasn't much. It was like enough 456 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: one of the pizza hut a fee, and then um, 457 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,560 Speaker 1: the Sporting News the next summer, and then the Washington 458 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,159 Speaker 1: Post the summer after my junior year. But you know, 459 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,680 Speaker 1: I think that, like you know, you can try your 460 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:17,040 Speaker 1: best to be as well rounded as possible, but it's 461 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: good to pick something that you really want to do 462 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,159 Speaker 1: and do as well as you possibly can. And I 463 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 1: and I think that, like when I look at your 464 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:29,439 Speaker 1: role and other people who UM are able to, you know, 465 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 1: analyze news inform an opinion of them. You know, that's 466 00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,080 Speaker 1: very hard and people think that it's easy, and it's 467 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: very hard. And I'm not one of those people who 468 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,359 Speaker 1: can do it, and I've never been good at it. 469 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,439 Speaker 1: Even when I write columns every now and then for 470 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: ESPN dot com. They're just not that good. And I 471 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,080 Speaker 1: think I always was drawn to UM, you know, to 472 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:53,360 Speaker 1: feature writing and to investigative reporting, and you know, when 473 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:58,120 Speaker 1: you do that, I think that, you know, the important 474 00:24:58,119 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: thing is you have to write the stories in a 475 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,800 Speaker 1: way that is entertaining. And I'm not meaning like they 476 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,960 Speaker 1: have to be snappy or flippant. I mean that that 477 00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,320 Speaker 1: they have to move the reader. You can't take the 478 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,960 Speaker 1: reader's time for granted, and you have to have new reporting. 479 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: And UM. I remember in UM in the Fall of 480 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,920 Speaker 1: seen Don Van Adden, I did a bunch of stories 481 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: on the NFL and how they were handling the anti 482 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 1: policy and the second of those stories and you know, 483 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: President Trump is coming after the NFL, everything was in crisis, 484 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,000 Speaker 1: and um, the second of those stories had, you know, 485 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: the piece of reporting about Bob McNair standing up in 486 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,800 Speaker 1: the owners meeting and saying, you know, we can't have 487 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,160 Speaker 1: the inmates running the prison. And that piece of reporting 488 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,119 Speaker 1: caught fire like nothing I've ever reported in my life. 489 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: And it came you know, I've learned about that piece 490 00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: of reporting pretty late before the story ended up going 491 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:54,960 Speaker 1: to print and posting online, maybe like three or four 492 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:59,720 Speaker 1: days before that. And um, you know that that piece 493 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,479 Speaker 1: of a boarding really kind of blew up. But you know, 494 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: we we we saved that it for the moment, for 495 00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,720 Speaker 1: when it happened, within the context of the chronology of events. 496 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,400 Speaker 1: And I remember, um, a friend of mine, a very 497 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: well known writer, you know, says like, how can we 498 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,159 Speaker 1: didn't begin with that? How can we didn't with that anecdote? 499 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 1: And you know, I felt like that it was important 500 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:24,600 Speaker 1: to present it in the context of which it happened. 501 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: And if you begin with that anecdote, it looks like 502 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,239 Speaker 1: you're trying to play it up and so I just 503 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: I think that, like it's important to have pieces of 504 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: reporting throughout a story like that that helped carry a reader, 505 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: even if some of them might catch fire and they arrived, 506 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: you know, like three quarters of the way through the piece, 507 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: So lots of questions of that. First of all, the 508 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: guy your buddy who was like, why did you leave 509 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:53,360 Speaker 1: with that? He's thinking like clicks headline, that's like the 510 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: modern that's how we are now. Unfortunately for better or 511 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: words like, that's where we are, right. I mean, the 512 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: fact that you guys were able to bury that or 513 00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 1: not bury it, but you got later in the story 514 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 1: where it was needed to go. Did you have a 515 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 1: push and pull with editors saying, hey we need this 516 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:11,080 Speaker 1: up top? We got open with it. No, it wasn't. Um, 517 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:12,679 Speaker 1: it wasn't at all. I mean I think that, like 518 00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: I said, you know, that was such a it was 519 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,760 Speaker 1: such an important piece of reporting that it just it 520 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: had to be presented in the context that had happened. 521 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,400 Speaker 1: Maybe we could have hinted at it earlier. I don't 522 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 1: think we did, but you know, and I think we 523 00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:27,800 Speaker 1: had a pretty good beginning to that story if I 524 00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 1: remember right. But like, um, you know, I think I 525 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,800 Speaker 1: think it was just important to present it in a 526 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: context in a way that if you begin with it, 527 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: you'd be over explaining. To present it in that context, 528 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: you might actually lose readers in the process of doing 529 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,760 Speaker 1: that because you have to explain so much. Our next 530 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,159 Speaker 1: story that we did, Don and I did was on 531 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 1: UM Roger Goodell and Jerry Jones. And if you remember 532 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,639 Speaker 1: at the time, UM, Jerry Jones was trying to sue 533 00:27:56,640 --> 00:28:01,679 Speaker 1: the league to stop Roger Goodell's contract extension, and you know, 534 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:03,959 Speaker 1: they were fighting, and it was like so so you know, 535 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: Don and I's repertorial antennis went up where we got 536 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:08,879 Speaker 1: to like report on this story. So we reported on 537 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:12,160 Speaker 1: and I remember the beginning to that story though, had 538 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:16,280 Speaker 1: a very colorful anecdote where Jerry Jones was on a 539 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 1: call with Roger Goodell and Jeff Pass who's the league's 540 00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:22,080 Speaker 1: general counsel, and he they were telling him that Ezekiel 541 00:28:22,080 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: Elliott was going to be suspended and Jerry was so 542 00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: mad and he says, you know, I'm gonna come it 543 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 1: on paraphrasing here, he says, I'm gonna come at you 544 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,360 Speaker 1: with everything I've got and if you seek Bob Kraft 545 00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 1: came after you hard referring to the flate Gate Bob 546 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:44,400 Speaker 1: Kraft is a the P word compared to what I'm 547 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,720 Speaker 1: gonna do now. That piece of reporting also came in late, 548 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,760 Speaker 1: But with that it felt like, you know, you could 549 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: present it in the context and you didn't have to 550 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,560 Speaker 1: over explain to be accurate. It was a very concise 551 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 1: and lively anecdote, and so we felt comfortable beginning with 552 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: that one. Um. So, you know, it's just not saying 553 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: everything is perfect every time, and it's kind of like, 554 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: I think that the best thing about doing these stories 555 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,240 Speaker 1: for ESPN and the Outside the Lines group is that 556 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,920 Speaker 1: there are no artificial deadlines. There's no hey, we've got 557 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:23,920 Speaker 1: to get this investigative story in by x date. We 558 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,600 Speaker 1: we published the story when we feel like it's ready, 559 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,560 Speaker 1: when it's been written, when it's been edited, vetted, fact checked. 560 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: You know, where you consider phrasing on certain you know, 561 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:37,920 Speaker 1: we're you know, certain sentences, and then you reconsider them 562 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 1: and you know you really feel um proud of the 563 00:29:42,280 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: story because it just feels you know, unrushed and really bulletproof. 564 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 1: Yeah see, I mean the problem with that is there 565 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:54,920 Speaker 1: that job Seth doesn't really exist anymore anywhere else. It's 566 00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:57,720 Speaker 1: just because of the way the internet is. Like, if 567 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: you don't have the clicks, you're not making money. And 568 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:02,880 Speaker 1: if you're not making money, you can't have two guys 569 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,840 Speaker 1: as good as you and Donn are spending two months 570 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: working on a story. And like I ran into that 571 00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: at USA today with the big lead, Like I was like, guys, 572 00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:14,320 Speaker 1: we're not just gonna chase clicks because ultimately we're gonna 573 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: lose that battle to the bigger, bigger shops. We need 574 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 1: a once a month sink our teeth into heavy feature, 575 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 1: whether it's media or whatever. ESPN does that, But Seth, 576 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: would you agree most sports media operations have abandoned that. Um, 577 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:31,640 Speaker 1: I don't know, you know, I'd say that, like, hey, 578 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,680 Speaker 1: you know, I don't have an intimate knowledge of the business, 579 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 1: and it's probably for better. Nobody's ever asked me any 580 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,520 Speaker 1: business questions about, you know, the digital model. Yeah, but 581 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,080 Speaker 1: I would just say that, Like when I was starting 582 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:51,200 Speaker 1: at ESPN, so at the time, you had um ESPN Magazine, 583 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: you had Sports Illustrated, you had the New York Times, 584 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: the l a Times, Washington Post, and you know those 585 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,960 Speaker 1: papers maybe had one or two. You know, investigative people 586 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,320 Speaker 1: or people who sort of looked at the big picture, 587 00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 1: who weren't on a daily deadline. Um. And then you know, 588 00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:12,040 Speaker 1: at the time, I think ESPN magazine maybe had like 589 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:18,480 Speaker 1: ten senior writers. Sports Illustrated probably had doubled that. Um. 590 00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,680 Speaker 1: And I look at it now. You know, most big 591 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,800 Speaker 1: newspapers still have those guys one or two of them 592 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:26,760 Speaker 1: who really spend more time. You know, think about the 593 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:31,320 Speaker 1: Washington Post, I Kent bab who does a good job. Um. 594 00:31:31,360 --> 00:31:34,080 Speaker 1: And then you know ESPN has way more than ten, 595 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:39,400 Speaker 1: way more. And you know, Sports Illustrated. I'm not sure 596 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,240 Speaker 1: where their numbers are, but you know, my friends who 597 00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: were there, I mean, they definitely have time to work 598 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 1: on those longer stories. So are there a few of 599 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: their jobs? I don't know. You know, the athletic has 600 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:52,520 Speaker 1: a lot of them too. It's hard for me to say. 601 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just you know, however, they make the 602 00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,520 Speaker 1: economics work. I hope that they continue to because I 603 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:02,440 Speaker 1: think it's important work. And um, you know people say, oh, 604 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:04,840 Speaker 1: you know, no one's gonna read a long story. Well 605 00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: it didn't. It didn't always happen regardless, like Sports Illustrated. 606 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: It used to come and they'd have you know, of 607 00:32:12,560 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: the magazine was game stories that were two or three 608 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: or four pages, and then maybe at the back you 609 00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,000 Speaker 1: have one that was ten pages. Not everyone read that, 610 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:22,480 Speaker 1: you know, I mean, I think the thing is that 611 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,440 Speaker 1: like hopefully you just get enough that you know, it 612 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:30,560 Speaker 1: makes it you know, a both a business and a 613 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:37,800 Speaker 1: um a journalistic um, you know, piece of ambition you 614 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,239 Speaker 1: want to have. Yeah, I mean, do you do a 615 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: lot of your friends coming up? You know, you kind 616 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,800 Speaker 1: of gotta, like you said, pick a lane? Do you 617 00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: want to be a beat guy? Features columnists, investigative? Um? 618 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:51,959 Speaker 1: What what do you say to people who say, hey, 619 00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: they're they're trying to put me in one of those 620 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: I know, you know, you kind of morphed into one 621 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,240 Speaker 1: of the best in the features industry if you will do. 622 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: But it sounds like there's just not a lot of 623 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,160 Speaker 1: guys who do what you do. So if you pick 624 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,440 Speaker 1: that lane, the chances are longer as opposed to saying, oh, 625 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:10,080 Speaker 1: you want to be a beat guy covering the Lakers 626 00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,960 Speaker 1: or what have you. Yeah, it's a great question, I mean, 627 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,640 Speaker 1: and thank you. I don't know, Um, you have to 628 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,600 Speaker 1: get your start somehow, And you know, I was able 629 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,600 Speaker 1: to get mine at ESPN Magazine, but I wasn't writing 630 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:23,680 Speaker 1: features right away. I was walking that a lot of 631 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:27,760 Speaker 1: them were smaller stories, right Thompson, you know, one of 632 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,320 Speaker 1: my best friends in my life. He was a year 633 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: behind me at Missouri. His first job out of college 634 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: was covering the uh covering LSU football for the Times Pickyune. 635 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 1: And then he did that for a bit and then 636 00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,080 Speaker 1: worked into a newspaper feature writing job at the Kansas 637 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,160 Speaker 1: City Star, and then was hired at ESPN, and so 638 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: he took a different route. But you know, we kind 639 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:52,480 Speaker 1: of ended up at the same place. But after a 640 00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: considerable amount of time, Like it's not I think now 641 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: the society like you know, like you said, people don't 642 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:59,160 Speaker 1: want to read long stories. People don't want to wait 643 00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: and work their way up to where. You know, it 644 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 1: takes a while to get to your spot. This is 645 00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: not like two years out of college and you're writing 646 00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,640 Speaker 1: features for ESPN. Yeah, I mean, but a lot of 647 00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: people like doing that news also, you know what I mean, 648 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,960 Speaker 1: A lot of people are driven by that. And um, 649 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: you know again, I think you just have to get 650 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:18,680 Speaker 1: in somehow, and then when you get your chances to 651 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 1: you know, you have to kind of make the most 652 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,560 Speaker 1: of them, and eventually, I do believe that, you know, 653 00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,480 Speaker 1: no matter what form it takes, you know that the 654 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 1: people who want to do that and get really good 655 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: at it will be seen in and you know, rewarded 656 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:34,360 Speaker 1: for that. I'll get you out of here on this 657 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:37,880 Speaker 1: withe seth. What are you currently reading right now? What 658 00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,720 Speaker 1: book are you currently reading? It's got to be something interesting, 659 00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: you know, working on a book. It's kind of weird 660 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 1: because you both want to read other books and you don't. Yes, 661 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,719 Speaker 1: this is true, but um I'd say the two books 662 00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: I've been reading are What It Takes by Richard ben Cramer, 663 00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,600 Speaker 1: which is a book that came out in about the 664 00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: ninet presidential election, and it's a thousand pages and it's 665 00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:08,200 Speaker 1: it's an unbelievable book, and it's one of those books 666 00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 1: that like when it came out, nobody bought it, but 667 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,880 Speaker 1: now when people look back out of there like that 668 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: was an unbelievable journalistic feed. So I've been reading that, 669 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,319 Speaker 1: and I also also the book that I'm making my 670 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,919 Speaker 1: way through is um uh, the New Signed Up Book, 671 00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 1: where you know, he writes down every joke that he's 672 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: written in his life, going back to the seventies. And 673 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:36,520 Speaker 1: you know, he put, I forget the name of it. Um, 674 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:39,080 Speaker 1: it's it's something I forget exactly what it is. But 675 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: it's a new one. He came out within the past 676 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: couple of months, and um, you know it's it's an 677 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 1: easy read, and it's funny to sort of see how 678 00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,319 Speaker 1: someone's you know, jokes evolved over the course. It's I 679 00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 1: like that, all right, Seth Wickersham, ESPN. And uh so 680 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: when is your book coming out? October? October ninety just 681 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,839 Speaker 1: in time for you know, the Patriots to be two 682 00:35:58,920 --> 00:36:02,520 Speaker 1: and five and consternation and then your book comes with 683 00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: all these great revelations as Brady's bucks are like seven 684 00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:08,719 Speaker 1: and o or whatever and headed toward another Super Bowl. 685 00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: I'm sure just in time for me to come back 686 00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:13,440 Speaker 1: on your podcast and talk about it. Yes, of course, alright, 687 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: Seth Wickership, ESPN. Thanks a lot, Seth. Thanks fun