1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha, and welcome to stuff. 2 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: I never told your prediction of I Heart Radio's House 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: at Words. For today's episode, we're sort of continuing our 4 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: conversation we had around female serial killers and a specific 5 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: type of female serial killer that kept coming up. It's 6 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 1: the black widow, right, um. And we said in those 7 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:37,760 Speaker 1: episodes we were going to come back and do an 8 00:00:37,760 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: episode on this. So we are women of our Words. 9 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,000 Speaker 1: Yeah we are. It just sounded like we are a 10 00:00:43,040 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: new group or a squad or something. Women of our Words. 11 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: We could be woo, women of our Words. It's wow, 12 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: w o o W. It's a small oh and a ago. Yeah, 13 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: there we go. We've got a whole group. And before 14 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 1: we get into this trigger warning for violence, sexual assault, death, 15 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: and general gruesomeness. Although not as bad as our female 16 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 1: serial killer episodes, they were a rough, um yeah, So 17 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:27,440 Speaker 1: we wanted to focus specifically on this black widow type 18 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 1: of killings, type of killer. And of course we're not 19 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: talking about the Avenger today, sorry Annie one day, and 20 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,320 Speaker 1: we're not talking about the Spider, although the Spider probably 21 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 1: inspired the name, um, the so the black Widow as 22 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:46,039 Speaker 1: a killer, not either of those things refers to a 23 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: female serial killer who kills three or more people, typically 24 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: husbands or significant others, or both, for financial gain. Their 25 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: method of choice is usually poison, and they are usually 26 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:02,240 Speaker 1: across between a serial killer and the con artist. Several 27 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: of our examples of female serial killers in those episodes 28 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: were black widows, and the FBI uses the term black 29 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:11,919 Speaker 1: widow as an official label for this type of killer, 30 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 1: which is interesting and from the report on serial killers. 31 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,040 Speaker 1: Financial gain is a motivation in which the finder benefits 32 00:02:18,080 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: monetarily from killing. Examples of these types of crimes are 33 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 1: black widow killings, robbery homicides, or multiple killings involving instruments, 34 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: or welfare fraud. Yeah, so that's an official FBI report. Now, 35 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:36,680 Speaker 1: black Widow, the Avenger, I will say, did make researching 36 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: this topic very difficult. You had to be very specific 37 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,200 Speaker 1: with a lot of quotes around the yes. Yes, because 38 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: most of the search results came up to be her, 39 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: and because she is technically a murderer and a killers, 40 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,839 Speaker 1: so that was another layer of difficulty. She's a trained assassin, right. 41 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: And then also because I kept getting distracted reading the comics, 42 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: you know, Yeah, I had a very big spoiler for 43 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,799 Speaker 1: the most recent issue, and I'm excited to have read it. Um, 44 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,959 Speaker 1: do you ever know where the research will lead you? 45 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 1: Although I guess it should have been obvious. There is 46 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: a meme of black widow marrying Spider Man and then 47 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:18,519 Speaker 1: killing him, and that that made me laugh pretty good. 48 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 1: Does he have money? I don't know, Peter and Parker, No, 49 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: he has no money. I think it's just a joke 50 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 1: because he's a spider Spider Man, you see. And yes, 51 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:37,040 Speaker 1: we do call black widow killers black widows because female 52 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: black widow spiders eat their mate after conception. And also 53 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: black widow has been a web of lies. That's just 54 00:03:46,600 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: some extra that I added in there. Um, a black 55 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: widow usually the killer, not the spider are the avengers, 56 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 1: So now I'm going to say the killer. Yes, we're 57 00:03:57,480 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: not talking about those other things from here on out. 58 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: They usually search for somebody who is lonely, sad, maybe grieving, 59 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 1: um in some way vulnerable. The black widow praise on 60 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: that vulnerability, becoming what the target needs, perhaps sharing them 61 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 1: with gifts, affection, those kinds of things. She is also 62 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: likely to target friends and family, basically anyone in her 63 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:24,279 Speaker 1: orbit that can make her rich, are just richer is 64 00:04:24,279 --> 00:04:27,359 Speaker 1: a threat. So on average, the black widow starts on 65 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 1: her path around twenty five and then murders for a 66 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: decade before she gets caught. Decade a decade. Yeah, black 67 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,559 Speaker 1: widows frequently employ things like newspaper ads or these days 68 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: online dating or some other type of wanted ads or 69 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: dating tools to find their victim. Now, there are some 70 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:51,160 Speaker 1: variations of black widow that I wanted to touch on, 71 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:54,320 Speaker 1: one of them being the Curtwright curse. So this is 72 00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: basically anyone who dates the protagonist dies and they usually 73 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:03,600 Speaker 1: die quickly. And it's named for the Cartwright family in Bonanza, 74 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:07,440 Speaker 1: which is a reference that I I am not familiar with, yes, 75 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: but that's where it comes from. Um. Some examples are 76 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:14,680 Speaker 1: the Owens family from Practical Magic. There's a curse on 77 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 1: the family that means that the women's husbands will tragically 78 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: meet their ends. UM Xander Harris from Buffy, Buffy from Buffy, 79 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: Sam from Supernatural and one episode Dean even asked him, 80 00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: have you forgotten the average lifespan of your hookups? Um 81 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: Soshiko Sato in Torchwood, Jack from Sydney, Bristow from Alias 82 00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 1: and depending on your choices Shepherd from mass effect, so 83 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:43,920 Speaker 1: this is basically your main character. James Bond is another 84 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: great one. Whoever they date dies usually putty immediately, exactly exactly, 85 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: So that's one variation. Um. Then there's the blue Beard 86 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,400 Speaker 1: from Stephen King's The Shining. From there upon the floor 87 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,719 Speaker 1: was blood, and on the walls were wives, for blue 88 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: Beard first had married them, then cut their throats with knives. 89 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 1: So this is essentially the male version of the black widow. 90 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: A dude who appears charming easily finds a mate to 91 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:17,799 Speaker 1: marry and then kills her. There is a major difference 92 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: in motivation. Blue beards are not usually motivated by greed. 93 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: The name comes from the Seven fairy Tale, in which 94 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: the character blue Beard murders wives who opened a forbidden 95 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:33,240 Speaker 1: door disobeying his direct orders. The earliest versions were meant 96 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 1: to be interpreted as a warning to women who disobeyed 97 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: their husbands. Typically, the woman who opened the forbidden door 98 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: would discover the bodies of blue beards past wives, and 99 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 1: she decided to die. Obviously, Yeah, that's the only way. 100 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,920 Speaker 1: So sleeping your way to the top trope the self 101 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 1: explanatory and often weaponized against women. Whether it's true or not, 102 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: as we see often. Then there's a gold digger, which 103 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: is similar but typically involves one partner who has riches 104 00:06:59,120 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: and status clarice from it takes two both versions of 105 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: the parent trap. And have you seen the latest withinnis 106 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: Quaid's new fiancee of course, I have a fantastic And 107 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: then Ron's first wife Kami, who tries to get back 108 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: with Rod after learning he has gold buried in several 109 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: places around his property, a literal gold diggirl. Yeah, I 110 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 1: love it. I love it. So we do have a 111 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 1: lot of real life examples but also a lot of 112 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: me examples. But first we're gonna pause for a quick 113 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:46,880 Speaker 1: break for from our sponsor, and we're back, Thank you sponsored, 114 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: and we're back with one of yours. So for many 115 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: of the media examples, one of my favorites, of course 116 00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: is Snapped. I think I've referred to them now like 117 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 1: four or five. Look, it's fantastic, um, It's one of 118 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: my ever and does involve many different female incidents of 119 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,880 Speaker 1: murder or attempted murder, including those who would be could 120 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: could be qualified as black widows. But just a reminder, 121 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: they have twenty four seasons yea, the seasons. Yes, so 122 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,840 Speaker 1: that it's a big show and has even expanded with 123 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: killer couples. Yeah, you know, partner killers. All of these different. 124 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: When I say partner killings like spouses or significant others, 125 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: there's also killings where it may involved domestic violence. I 126 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: think there's a couple of several, whereas women being jealous 127 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:33,080 Speaker 1: of women. So yeah, so it's a whole thing. But yeah, 128 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: it's it's lasted twenty four seasons. Long, twenty four seasons 129 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: for some reasons, I thought it was relatively no no, no, no, 130 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: and if you start like watching from the beginning. Um, 131 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: the narration is Sharon Martin. She won an Emmy. I'm 132 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: not sure for which I think she because she's narrated 133 00:08:54,280 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: on several different things. But yeah, yeah, it's legit. It's 134 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 1: been around for a man for at least I think 135 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: two thousand four fifteen years. Well that's a reality check. 136 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: There you go. I'll deal with that later. You're gonna 137 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: process that. Um. We also mentioned in one of our 138 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: female serial Killer episodes, the nineteen forty four Carrie Grant 139 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: film Arsenic and Old Lace, which we have seen Samantha 140 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: um featured two black widow type murderers, and as you 141 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 1: might guess from the title, these elderly women poisoned victims 142 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 1: with arsenic lace pie and a smile, and a smile 143 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:42,360 Speaker 1: that sounds like the perfect slogan the seven movie Black Widow, 144 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: where the female serial killer continues to kill even after 145 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: she is wealthy. Then there's Debbie Jelinski from Adam's Family Values. 146 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: And another one that I've already mentioned previously, which parodies 147 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: this is So I'm married an X murderer went through 148 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,120 Speaker 1: several husbands, But of course that's a always a ending 149 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: twist this one. Have you said, I haven't seen it, 150 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: but I read about it for this episode, so I 151 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,480 Speaker 1: know what the spoilers. I'm not gonna do it even 152 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 1: those years old, because it's just fantastic. And then Mrs 153 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: White from Clue, which again another one of my favorite 154 00:10:16,760 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: favorite movies. Five of her husbands had died. One was 155 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: an illusionist who disappeared and never reappeared, and of course 156 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,959 Speaker 1: Mrs White said of this he wasn't a very good illusionist, 157 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 1: and one had his head chopped off by someone and 158 00:10:31,360 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: something else, and then she points downwards as she Yeah, 159 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:40,920 Speaker 1: it's a fantastic She's like head chopped off, and it's fantastic. 160 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:46,000 Speaker 1: I think I've watched it recently. It is one of 161 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: those Halloween movies to me because it's so fun and 162 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: you wanted to kind of just reminisce. Of course, not 163 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: the guests aged very well, but it's still great. I'm 164 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: trying to get a party together. You might have been 165 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,360 Speaker 1: there when I was planning it. I'm always planning a 166 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: party or two. Are trying to get a Tim Curry 167 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 1: party together where everybody comes as a different Tim Curry. 168 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: I think that would be spectacular. I'm trying to remember 169 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:13,240 Speaker 1: the character and Mrs White Madeline Cohan, which is a 170 00:11:13,280 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 1: great comedian from the eighties, eighties and nineties. He's a 171 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:20,959 Speaker 1: fantastic actress. She was the one that betrayed Mrs White. 172 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:25,840 Speaker 1: Another example from the media we have is Queen Ravenna 173 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: from Snow White and the Huntsman, who killed snow White's 174 00:11:28,720 --> 00:11:33,239 Speaker 1: father after marriage so that she can rule solo um. Similarly, 175 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: the stepmother from Phoenix and Ashes Mercedes like he's take 176 00:11:36,440 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: on the Cinderella Tail. There's a Get Smart where Maxwell 177 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:46,440 Speaker 1: had to marry an agent named Widow often Annie Yep 178 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: who used these methods in her work. And then Samantha 179 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: Carter from star Gate st on one of my favorite shows, 180 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:58,839 Speaker 1: although actually more accurately an example of the Cartwright curse 181 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: because all of her boyfriend don't last long before dying. 182 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: The writers jokingly called her Black Widow Carter and almost 183 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: gave an episode that title. Yeah. Well, there's also Rebecca 184 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: Carlson from the Body of Evidence, who went to trial 185 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: on accusations that she went out and found wealthy men 186 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,480 Speaker 1: with health problems to have sex with until their hearts 187 00:12:17,520 --> 00:12:21,760 Speaker 1: gaped out. Um. And then there's Catherine from Basic Instinct 188 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 1: and oh my goodness, that movie itself was just as 189 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:30,839 Speaker 1: a young mind, you're like, I do leave it at that. Yeah, 190 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 1: that's another one I've missed, and it's I've seen, you know, 191 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: the clip that everyone shows, and for me, as a 192 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: young child, I thought, maybe I don't want to see that, 193 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 1: Maybe I don't. Blaze A Beanie's mother is implied to 194 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: be a black widow in the Harry Potter series. Uh 195 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: seven marriages of hers and with husband's dead under mysterious 196 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: circumstances and their money transferred to her. Blaze A Beanie. 197 00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:01,280 Speaker 1: Oh Amantha WHI by the way I did my crosswords, 198 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,920 Speaker 1: not crossing war starches. Last night. I stayed up a 199 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 1: little too long doing them. Placed is kind of a 200 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: side character from Southern and I believe it's in the 201 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: sixth one half blug Prints where he's invited to the 202 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: slug Club and he's the son of this model, famous 203 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: model in the Wizarding World, and it kind of comes 204 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:26,959 Speaker 1: up about his mother. It's very passing thing that is 205 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 1: very specific. It is thank you. I'm going to take 206 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 1: it as a compliment. Uh. Then there's of course the 207 00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: Black Widow song by Azalea the re read it or 208 00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,280 Speaker 1: I totally forgot about that until it was all of 209 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 1: a sudden stuck in my head. I don't know that song. Well, 210 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm not saying it. Uh. And then 211 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:49,480 Speaker 1: your favorite ride, The Bride from the Disney ride the 212 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:55,599 Speaker 1: Haunted Mansion who murdered five husbands with an ax. Yeah, 213 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't bad when I was seeing it 214 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 1: from afar and then they came close, I was like, nope. 215 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: I got stuck on that ride once, right at the 216 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:04,560 Speaker 1: part where something just pops up at you over and over. 217 00:14:04,760 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: And he told me about that. I think that actually 218 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:08,959 Speaker 1: kind of had me going, oh, don't let that happen. 219 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 1: It was quite it was quite funny for a while, 220 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:16,679 Speaker 1: but yeah, eventually a little tiresome. So those are some 221 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: media examples, but of course there are plenty of real 222 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: life examples. One is Britain's Mary Anne Cotton, frequently misattributed 223 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: as their first female known serial killer. She was born 224 00:14:30,080 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: on Halloween in two killed twenty one people via poisoning 225 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: before she was caught, and that included three spouses and 226 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 1: up to eleven of her own children. Her first murder 227 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,880 Speaker 1: took place sometime in eighteen sixty five, she probably had 228 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: killed before then. As we said in that Female serial 229 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: Killer episodes, a lot of information around female serial killers 230 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: is hard to get to the truth of what really 231 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,080 Speaker 1: happened and what was legend, and then what didn't go 232 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: documented and what did um So this is sort of 233 00:15:04,760 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 1: what a lot of people seemed to land on around her. 234 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:10,680 Speaker 1: She was caught in eighteen seventy three and quickly found 235 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: guilty and hanged, And there's even a poem or perhaps 236 00:15:16,760 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: song about her, Marianne Cotton. She's dead and she's rotten. 237 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: She lies in her bed with her eyes wide open, 238 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: sing sing, Oh, what can I sing? Marianne Cotton is 239 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: tied up with string? Where where up in the air 240 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: selling black Puddin's a penny a pair. There's also Daisy 241 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:36,400 Speaker 1: Luisa de Melcher, who went on to become the first 242 00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 1: woman to ever be hanged in South Africa. She married 243 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:41,560 Speaker 1: her first husband in nineteen o nine. Three of their 244 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: five children died as babies, and her husband died in 245 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 1: ninety three. He left in his wake a really big inheritance. 246 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,880 Speaker 1: De Melca was married again within three years, and within 247 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: three more years he was dead, picked into an illness 248 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: very similar to the one that took the life of 249 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: her first husband. Four years later, and she had herself 250 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 1: an another husband. Within a year of that marriage, her 251 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: son died after drinking coffee his mother made dot dot 252 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,360 Speaker 1: dot dot. The brother of Demlicra's second husband pushed for 253 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: an investigation, and the authorities discovered arsenic and demlicas son's system. 254 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: Bodies of our first as second husbands were found to 255 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:20,720 Speaker 1: have poison in their systems as well. Wow. Then there's 256 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: France's Queen of poisoners, Marie Bisnard. She killed her first 257 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: husband in the very next year. She had a second husband. 258 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 1: They moved into his parents house, and both parents were 259 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:37,840 Speaker 1: dead months later. Their daughter, who shared their inheritance, died 260 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: soon after. Bausnard's father died. Within this period too, a 261 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: couple of boarders died as well, and then they bequeathed 262 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: their state to the Besnard's. Besnard's mother and a handful 263 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: of other relatives also died, leaving everything they owned to 264 00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: the Besnard's. By this point they were rich, but Basnard's 265 00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 1: husband did have his doubts about his wife. He told 266 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: a lover he was afraid Marie might be trying to 267 00:17:04,880 --> 00:17:08,880 Speaker 1: kill him. After his nine death and Marie subsequently coming 268 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: into his inheritance, people began to suspect foul play. Arsenic 269 00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: was deemed to be the cause of death, and several 270 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: other bodies were exhumed and showed the same thing. Marie 271 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:24,080 Speaker 1: was charged with thirteen murders. Three trials later, she was acquitted. 272 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 1: She died in nineteen sixty one. Wow, how did you 273 00:17:29,320 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: even get away with that? That you can't help but 274 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:37,800 Speaker 1: just be sad and upset and someone impressed? I suppose 275 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:40,199 Speaker 1: we did talk about that a little bit, and we 276 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,479 Speaker 1: did an episode while back about like, why are we 277 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,119 Speaker 1: so interested in scam queens and is a part of 278 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 1: us sort of rooting. I'm not rooting for that, Please 279 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: understand I'm not, but he was kind of like Wow. 280 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: The nineteen eleven Chicagoan and self proclaimed psychic Tilly Clement, 281 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: began accurately predicting the death of dogs in her neighborhood Rude. 282 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:02,919 Speaker 1: A couple of years later, she upped the auntie and 283 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 1: predicting the death of her longtime husband, and in less 284 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: than a month, sure enough, he was dead. When she 285 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 1: had cashed in on his life insurance policy, she marched 286 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: right over to the matchmaker. Not three months later, she 287 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 1: had remarried and then predicted her second husband's death and 288 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,960 Speaker 1: he died. Her third husband met a similar fate, and 289 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: when a woman in the neighborhood voiced her concerns about 290 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: her presto another prediction, and she was dead. Husband number 291 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 1: four made it four years before a prediction and death. 292 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,720 Speaker 1: She also had predicted about three of her more troublesome 293 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:37,919 Speaker 1: children's death, all of whom ended up dying. Um When 294 00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: husband number five fell ill, his family took him to 295 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,280 Speaker 1: the hospital, where it was discovered he had arsenic in 296 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,240 Speaker 1: his system. She received a life sentence for attempted murder 297 00:18:45,240 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: and was forbidered from cooking food for the other prisoners. Smart, yeah, smart, 298 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: I would agree with that. We do have some more 299 00:18:55,840 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: examples for you, but first we have one more break 300 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:14,119 Speaker 1: for word from our sponsor and we're back. Thank you sponsoring, 301 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:20,080 Speaker 1: and we're back with Texas's black Widow of Henderson County's title. 302 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, you know. And Betty Lou Beats was arrested 303 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,400 Speaker 1: for the murder of her fifth husband and bearing him 304 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: in her backyard. Police found his body, along with the 305 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:35,400 Speaker 1: bodies of all of her other victims. You know. Then 306 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: there's Milli Weeks, who used online dating to find her 307 00:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: targets after serving six years in prison for manslaughter. She 308 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,399 Speaker 1: had drugged her husband and then ran him over with 309 00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:49,160 Speaker 1: her car. She met a second husband at a Florida 310 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,560 Speaker 1: Christian retreat a couple of weeks after her release, who 311 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: died mysteriously a year after their marriage. Weeks was arrested 312 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: after a strange drug was found in the system of 313 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 1: her third husband, whose hell had inexplicably rapidly deteriorated. She 314 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 1: was sentenced to five years for stealing his funds, and 315 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:13,560 Speaker 1: he survived. Her third husband so there's also jessuck Okay Kahy, 316 00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: the black widow of Kyoto from She killed at least 317 00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 1: seven men she was dating or married to for their 318 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: life insurance equally about seven million dollars. She says she's innocent, 319 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: doomed by faith, doomed by fate. In two thousand five, 320 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,600 Speaker 1: Stacy Castor's second husband died in what was believed to 321 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,439 Speaker 1: be a suicide. Upon further investigation, authorities found he had 322 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,720 Speaker 1: ingested anti freeze. Now suspicious, the body of her first 323 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,080 Speaker 1: husband was exhumed and his system also contained anti freeze. 324 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: Castor panicked, inviting her daughter, Ashley over for a drink. 325 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:49,199 Speaker 1: She laced her daughter's cocktails with drugs, and after she 326 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,360 Speaker 1: passed out, Castor wrote a fake suicide note as Ashley, 327 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 1: claiming that Ashley had killed her father and stepfather and herself. However, 328 00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 1: Ashley's sister found her struggling to breathe in the morning, 329 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: and she was taken to the hospital, where she was 330 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,400 Speaker 1: quoted to have been only fifteen minutes from death. When 331 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: she awoke, she was shocked to hear that she had 332 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 1: allegedly written a suicide note confessing the murders of her 333 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 1: father figures castors story quickly unraveled and she's serving twenty 334 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: five years. Yeah. Then there is the Black Widow case. 335 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: In two thousand and eight, at the ages of seventy 336 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: seven and seventy five, respectively, Helen Golay and Olga rudder 337 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,360 Speaker 1: Schmidt were convicted of murder and sentenced to two consecutive 338 00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:33,879 Speaker 1: life sentences. They had taken in to homeless men, clothed 339 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 1: and fed them for two years before killing them with 340 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,400 Speaker 1: their cars, but not before taking out millions in life 341 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 1: insurance policies, dozens of life insurance policies. According to the 342 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: detective that caught them, Helen was the brains and was 343 00:21:48,119 --> 00:21:51,080 Speaker 1: worth millions. The two actually didn't seem to really get along. 344 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,040 Speaker 1: I was one of the number one questions from interviews 345 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,639 Speaker 1: I read were like, were they friends? The answer seems 346 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: to be no. Um When it interviewed by vices, detective said, 347 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: I think how one is a completely psychotic person. She's 348 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: probably one of the evilest minds I have ever come across. 349 00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: In thirty one years of doing this, I've never seen 350 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: anyone who was that calculating and evil. I want to 351 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:15,919 Speaker 1: say this is a snapped episode. Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure. Well, 352 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: it certainly was interesting because a lot of the detectives, 353 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: so the way they were caught is because people were 354 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,440 Speaker 1: kind of in awe that so many insurance policies have 355 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: been taken out, and the insurance person showed up kind 356 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 1: of like, what's this is weird? And one of the 357 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: detectives mentioned in past say, I remember a similar case 358 00:22:36,680 --> 00:22:39,399 Speaker 1: a couple of years earlier, and it was them as well. 359 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: And um, one of the things that detectives were sort 360 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:48,960 Speaker 1: of um scratching their head about is they're pretty old, 361 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,680 Speaker 1: and so the millions of dollars, if I remember correctly, 362 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:55,359 Speaker 1: there was no one in the family they would want 363 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:58,320 Speaker 1: to pass that too. So I guess that's one of 364 00:22:58,359 --> 00:23:00,760 Speaker 1: the reasons why they didn't really consider to them at first, 365 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,119 Speaker 1: you know, you don't think about old women killing people 366 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:11,320 Speaker 1: too often. And then yeah, yeah, anyway. Um. There's also 367 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 1: the nonfiction book Homicide, A Year on the Killing Streets, 368 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 1: and in that one of the FBI profilers mentioned that, 369 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: unlike the Hollywood black widow trope that's very fimbtal, most 370 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: real life like widows are older and more plain. So yeah, 371 00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:33,399 Speaker 1: big on that. Um, Okay, that's just a whole different conversation. Well, again, 372 00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: it goes back to what we said in that that 373 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,639 Speaker 1: episode around females zero killers, is that we always have 374 00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 1: to judge them based on their looks somehow. Ah. Anyway, 375 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 1: that about brings us to the end of this Black 376 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,960 Speaker 1: Widow episode. If we miss anybody or you have any 377 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:54,360 Speaker 1: additional information, you can always write to us. But first 378 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: we do have a shout out UM to a friend 379 00:23:57,560 --> 00:24:00,960 Speaker 1: of ours shouts. So, yeah, we wanted to shout out 380 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: a friend of ours. Jenny. We first ran into when 381 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,040 Speaker 1: we were at Podcast Movement in Orlando and she came 382 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 1: to our panel, which thank you, Jenny. And then we 383 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,000 Speaker 1: were recently speaking at Sheet Podcasts here in Atlanta and 384 00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,200 Speaker 1: Jenny came to our panel there as well, and the 385 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 1: panels about women supporting women, so it was greatly appreciated UM. 386 00:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: And she has her own podcast that we wanted to 387 00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,119 Speaker 1: shout out from her, uh quote, I want to make 388 00:24:26,119 --> 00:24:28,240 Speaker 1: sure and share the information with you about our podcast, 389 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,439 Speaker 1: so you had everything you needed to know. We just 390 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: released a new episode today on Supreme Court and the 391 00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:35,080 Speaker 1: l g B t Q case that they heard recently 392 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,840 Speaker 1: and are looking forward to the abortion case that they 393 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 1: will be hearing in the spring. Repros fight Back is 394 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: a reproductive health rights and justice podcast that interviews the 395 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:47,280 Speaker 1: people who are fighting for our sexual and reproductive health 396 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 1: and rights at home and abroad. Each episode we dig 397 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:53,160 Speaker 1: deep into a specific reprotective health rights and justice issue, 398 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: talking about what it is, what's happening around it right now, 399 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,919 Speaker 1: and what you can do to fight back against this 400 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: unprecedented assault on our rights. So it sounds like a 401 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,439 Speaker 1: lot of our listeners would be interested in it. You 402 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,400 Speaker 1: can go find them on their website, which is Reprose 403 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:10,719 Speaker 1: fight Back like reprotective so lower case R E capital 404 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:13,479 Speaker 1: p r oh. You can find them at Twitter at 405 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,440 Speaker 1: Reprose fight Back and on Facebook at Reprose fight Back 406 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: and on Instagram at repros f B. Yeah, and then 407 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:22,399 Speaker 1: also want to shout out to Mental Health and Color, 408 00:25:22,680 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 1: which is a podcast that focuses on having an open 409 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,879 Speaker 1: platform where people of color are sharing their stories concerning 410 00:25:28,119 --> 00:25:31,919 Speaker 1: mental health and helping to break down the barriers and stigma. Also, 411 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 1: just a quick shout out to our friend Charlene, congrats 412 00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: on your new job as a flight attendant. Yeah, she 413 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: just flew into Atlanta recently. I don't know when this's 414 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: gonna air. Um, and we didn't get to hang out 415 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: with her, but just congratulations. Yeah, yes, I mean any 416 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: listeners who want to send in their new jobs get 417 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: a shout out, you want to come hang with us. 418 00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:53,440 Speaker 1: She wanted to come hang with us, so we just 419 00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 1: couldn't work out the schedule. But yeah, I just want 420 00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: to say congrats, yes, congrats, and uh we would love 421 00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:02,679 Speaker 1: to hear what stuff all all the cool stuff you 422 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 1: listeners are doing. If you want to send that to us, 423 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,920 Speaker 1: please do you. You can email us at Stuff Media, 424 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 1: mom Stuff at iHeart media dot com. You can find 425 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 1: us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcast and on Instagram 426 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 1: at Stuff I've Never Told to You. Thanks as always 427 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,360 Speaker 1: to our super producer Andrew Howard, and thanks to you 428 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,879 Speaker 1: for listening Stuff I've Never Told You his production of 429 00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:23,959 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio's How Stuff Works. For More podcast from 430 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: my Heart Radio is the i heeart Radio app, Apple podcast, 431 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,080 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.