WEBVTT - Still Plenty of Fight in Mickey Rourke 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:05.000 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing, 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:09.880 My chance to talk with artists, policymakers and performers, to 0:00:10.000 --> 0:00:14.160 hear their stories. What inspires their creations, what decisions change 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:19.720 their careers, what relationships influenced their work. My guest today 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:23.160 is actor Mickey Rourke. And if you're a millennial who's 0:00:23.200 --> 0:00:26.040 binging on Orange is the New Black, and you haven't 0:00:26.079 --> 0:00:28.480 seen him in the Pope of Greenwich Village or diner, 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:32.360 I suggest you do. Rourke is an actor of great 0:00:32.400 --> 0:00:35.560 focus and intensity, and he often appears to be lit 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:38.960 from a fire within That fire has gotten him in 0:00:39.040 --> 0:00:42.600 trouble with directors, co stars and producers, earning him the 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.920 reputation of being difficult to work with, but nearly always 0:00:45.960 --> 0:00:50.760 with breathtaking results. Rourke's childhood was, as he calls it, 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:54.320 a nightmare. Before he found his acting teacher, Sandra sik 0:00:54.320 --> 0:00:57.320 Cat of the Actor's studio, Rourke sought refuge in a 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:01.400 much different place. The boxing ring. I started when I 0:01:01.440 --> 0:01:03.720 was about eleven years old and had also I had 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.319 four step brothers that were the toughest fights I ever had. 0:01:07.640 --> 0:01:10.119 You grew up in Schenectady, I was born up State 0:01:10.200 --> 0:01:13.920 New York, but I was raised in Miami. My mother 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:18.560 married Cox Sucker, a policeman down there, brutal son of 0:01:18.600 --> 0:01:23.120 a bitch, which was a good outlet for me with 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:26.440 the boxing, you know. And we we grew up in 0:01:26.520 --> 0:01:30.200 Liberty City, which was the black section of town, and 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:34.320 you either were a really fast runner or you had 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:37.959 to fight. We actually wed in a neighborhood where you 0:01:38.080 --> 0:01:41.280 had to ride to school in a pack or else 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:44.720 you'd get your bike taken from you. And I remember 0:01:44.840 --> 0:01:47.240 days where I was riding my bicycle alone to school 0:01:47.840 --> 0:01:50.480 and then there's four guys, five guys whatever, you know, 0:01:50.520 --> 0:01:53.880 waiting for me to cross Seventh Avenue and I would 0:01:53.880 --> 0:01:56.280 go hide in the gas stations and until they left 0:01:56.320 --> 0:01:58.120 because I didn't want to get beat up from my 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:02.280 bicycle taken from it. Yeah. Absolutely, When he was a kid, 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:04.560 he talked about yeah, you know, yeah, I was. I 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:07.040 was a chicken ship all my all my stepbrothers could 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:09.200 kick the ship out of me, the ones that were younger, 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:11.080 the ones that were older. And you have a full 0:02:11.120 --> 0:02:13.000 brother and a full sister and my yeah, my full 0:02:13.040 --> 0:02:17.760 brother passed away about eight years ago. Yeah. Um, he 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:21.800 never got into Joey never got never got into the boxing. 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:26.359 He uh, he was in the marijuana business. He was 0:02:26.480 --> 0:02:30.079 very quiet, I think because of what had happened growing up. 0:02:30.120 --> 0:02:36.320 He couldn't. I fought and he got he got quiet 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:41.000 and couldn't. He didn't trust anybody, and he was very 0:02:40.200 --> 0:02:44.800 shut down and he could only sort of communicate in 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:51.880 the outlaw world part of society. Um. She is, but 0:02:51.960 --> 0:02:54.160 when my brother died in my arms, I could never 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:58.240 speak to her again because I blamed joe being anti 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:02.920 social and and uh to be able to function on 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:05.240 her because she allowed certain stuff to happen. She just 0:03:05.320 --> 0:03:08.560 turned her back to you. So boxing is something you 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:10.280 do with a kid. You would have to record you 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:11.880 you know you you you want a lot of fights. 0:03:11.880 --> 0:03:13.359 I'm want a lot of amateur fights. So it was 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:17.040 undefeated as an amateur. Uh So when you jump up 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:19.880 to New York and to go study with Sandra Sikat 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:24.720 correct and you're gonna start doing the acting. That what happened? Why? Um, 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:28.480 I had gotten a had gotten a two concussions in 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:30.799 a row, and I think I was gonna I don't know. 0:03:32.000 --> 0:03:37.320 I was about sixteen or seventeen, and um, the doctors 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:40.120 told me to take a year off, did not have 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:43.360 any contact. And there was a kid in my class 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:46.320 in my school who was going doing acting and you know, 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:49.600 and he's asked me to do a play and I 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.880 had no idea, and so he talked to me into 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:54.720 doing this play. And I thought that this is the 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:57.040 better than getting up at five in the morning and 0:03:57.800 --> 0:04:00.680 running the country club where he would get up and 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:04.040 runner each day. And uh, you know, back then it 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.880 was it was a ritual to you know, to do 0:04:06.920 --> 0:04:10.600 your road work before the sun came up. And and uh, 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:12.800 you know, this acting thing I thought was a lot 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:16.000 easier than the grind at the gym. And I was 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:23.880 very undisciplined. Uh young man, and uh I had I 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:28.560 had trouble just listening to anybody. And um, did you 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:32.120 listen to see kat? I listened to her, but I didn't. 0:04:32.520 --> 0:04:35.080 I wasn't able to listen to my boxing trainers. And 0:04:35.720 --> 0:04:38.160 why did you listen to her? Why did I listen 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:40.320 to sound? Yeah? What was it about that? You know? 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:42.400 I said to myself, I'm going to give myself five 0:04:42.480 --> 0:04:44.440 years to see if this acting thing is anything. I 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:47.000 said the same, we give myself one year. Yeah, So 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:49.720 I was living at the time at this welfare hotel 0:04:49.800 --> 0:04:53.239 down on Eighth Street, and it was there was an 0:04:53.240 --> 0:04:55.479 old man behind the desk who was a big theater buff, 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.000 and he would give me books to read. I had 0:04:58.040 --> 0:05:02.240 no idea who Marlon brand Don't was or Tennessee Williams, 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:05.240 Tennessee Williams. You know, I knew who bo Jack was, 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:09.520 Sonny listen email Griffith, you know Roberto the Round, James Dean. 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:11.320 I didn't know who he was. So it was like, 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:14.040 you weren't you weren't a movie going down, not at all. 0:05:14.240 --> 0:05:16.839 You weren't a movie watcher. No. And I was working 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:20.200 construction at the time. I had I worked on a 0:05:20.200 --> 0:05:23.760 construction crew on a jackhammer. And I remember after work 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:25.599 when I had my jeans on. I think I only 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:27.640 had two pairs of jeans with three black T shirts. 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:31.480 And I showed up at the hotel and this elderly man, 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:33.839 who older man who worked it behind the desk, Carl. 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:37.960 He was all done up, like, you know, really dressed up. 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:40.839 And I he says, we're going to the theater and 0:05:40.880 --> 0:05:43.240 I said, Okay, let's go. He goes, you can't go 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:45.600 to the theater like that, you know. I had the 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:49.920 dirty jeans that just from my construction job. Some proper clothes. 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:51.840 I didn't have any proper clothes. He dressed me. He 0:05:51.920 --> 0:05:55.480 dressed me up and h He actually died this year 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:57.480 at a hundred. You know, he kept we've kept, we've 0:05:57.560 --> 0:06:00.320 kept in touch, and he was a hundred years I 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.240 call Montgomery, So you go to the theater with him. 0:06:03.360 --> 0:06:07.000 I went to the theater and saw a play with him. 0:06:07.120 --> 0:06:12.359 It was Ralph Richardson and John gilgu It was okay, 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:14.920 and you know it was it didn't rock my boat. 0:06:14.960 --> 0:06:17.800 It wasn't Muhammad Ali and Sunny listen. You know. It 0:06:17.920 --> 0:06:21.800 was a whole different world for me. And so I 0:06:21.920 --> 0:06:24.479 go to the acting classes and I think it was 0:06:24.520 --> 0:06:26.159 about a year and a half or two years that 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:28.120 I would go. But I wouldn't get up and do anything. 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:31.039 I would just sit there and watch other people and 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:35.800 actually treat Williams and Christopher Reeves Pressed the Soul were 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.599 both in the class. And they get up there and 0:06:38.600 --> 0:06:41.800 they didn't get all the you know, emotional and you know, 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:44.599 and do all this stuff. And I thought, I can't 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:47.560 because you know, being on the street, you can't. My 0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:49.640 other job was I was running a massage parlor on 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:52.719 Fort Street. I was in charge of the fly boys. 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:55.520 I had these young Puerto Rican kids that would you know, 0:06:55.520 --> 0:06:57.800 I wanted to make some money. I give them sacks 0:06:57.800 --> 0:07:01.719 of flyers and they'd hand them out to customers. And 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:05.120 my job was when the pimps came over, they would 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:07.599 take the flyers from the young Puerto Rican kids and 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.160 throw the flyers away because they had their girls work 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.560 on the street. So my job was going over to 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:15.880 the pimps and I would say leave my funcket fly 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:18.400 boys alone, and if they didn't get it, I'd opened 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:21.440 my coat and show them the ship and they got 0:07:21.480 --> 0:07:27.360 the message. So well. It was weird because that yeah, right, 0:07:27.800 --> 0:07:31.080 do a different jackhamps the street life and then acting 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:34.080 class clash. So it was so it was because I 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:37.840 had to keep you got to keep a certain face 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:40.840 on the street and to go into acting class, and 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:45.240 that become vulnerable. It was hard for me to uh. 0:07:45.320 --> 0:07:49.440 But you auditioned for the studio and they let you 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:54.680 win very quickly, correct if I read very quickly, and 0:07:54.640 --> 0:07:57.040 they said your audition was one of the best auditions 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.720 they've seen in thirty years. Because Anne said that to 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:02.280 me when I finally knew who because that was I 0:08:02.360 --> 0:08:05.360 finally realized it was an amazing Well, there's a story 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:10.360 to that. Um I I said to my acting coach 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:12.880 Sandra one days, you know, because I used to see 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:17.560 al Pacino at the studio and um and Chris Walkin 0:08:17.640 --> 0:08:19.800 and Harvey Kite Towel and you know guys that I 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:26.320 really admired. And I said to Sandra one day, can 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:29.960 I ever be as good as like al Paccino? And 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:32.559 she said, you have to work harder than the rest. 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:37.079 And I understood that. But because I related, I could 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:40.960 understand that in the relation to boxing, you know, if 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:42.960 you you don't win the fight on the night of 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:46.040 the fight, you win the fight the ten twelve weeks 0:08:46.080 --> 0:08:48.640 that you do your worthy, you know. So when you're 0:08:48.640 --> 0:08:51.280 sitting in the dressing room and they're wrapping your hands 0:08:51.800 --> 0:08:54.240 in the door opens and you hear the crowd, that's 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:58.640 when you know, that's what That's when I would get 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:01.280 right the fear with come in. But if I did 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:04.439 my home, my road work, you know, all I'm thinking 0:09:04.440 --> 0:09:07.840 about is that that prick in the other room, he 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:09.840 didn't work as hard as I could. So with the 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:14.000 acting I I would literally go there after my jobs 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:17.040 late at night she got I got a call to 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:20.040 the key to the studio and I would walk in there. 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:22.000 What I would do is there was a bum on 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:26.360 the street. Uh. I forgot his name, but I would 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.920 pay him like five dollars to read lines with me. 0:09:29.679 --> 0:09:31.360 He could hardly read, but I buy him a big 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:34.080 giant bottle of beer and he would as good as 0:09:34.080 --> 0:09:35.960 he could read. He would read the other lines and 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.240 I would. When you're in the actor's studio at night, 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:40.640 like around one, two in the morning and twelve at night, 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:44.000 you know, and you start thinking about you know, who's 0:09:44.040 --> 0:09:47.920 been there before you, who's walked on that floor before you? 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:49.840 You know, it's it's it's a. It's a. It's a. 0:09:49.960 --> 0:09:52.880 It was a really beautiful feeling. It was mind blowing. 0:09:52.920 --> 0:09:54.800 And to be there all at night, and I was 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.680 there every fucking night, and I would work and I'd 0:09:57.720 --> 0:09:59.920 work harder, and I would work harder, and then did 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:02.559 eventually got up in front of people. Eventually I got 0:10:02.600 --> 0:10:04.839 up in front of people in the state field. It 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:09.000 was okay because Sandra knew my background from fighting, and 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.400 she also knew that I had I had a tremendous 0:10:11.400 --> 0:10:16.040 amount of guilt for quitting the boxing walked away. I 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:19.320 felt like a coward that I quit. Yeah, And she 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:24.960 had me to you know, it was a Stanislavsky method 0:10:25.000 --> 0:10:27.679 type of acting, of course, and she had me to 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:32.160 a sense memory of me in a place that I 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:35.680 loved to be. And what I was doing was lacing 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:38.800 up my boxing shoes. And I remember because Ali was 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:41.800 at the gym at the same time, and Jimmy Yellis 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.480 and Jerry Quarry, oscar Bonavet, you know, all the great ones, 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:47.520 you know, And I remember I had gotten these white 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:49.880 boxing shoes that were the same ones that Ali had. 0:10:49.960 --> 0:10:53.640 And so when I did my sense memory and and 0:10:53.679 --> 0:10:56.960 then I had this monologue that she had me do, 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:01.400 and I was lacing up the shoes and just everything 0:11:01.800 --> 0:11:04.760 kind of just cracked, and it was like and she 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:06.480 had me she she want to say the lines, and 0:11:06.520 --> 0:11:10.040 it was and then I understood what the work is 0:11:10.360 --> 0:11:13.640 and how to make it personal and how to tap 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:18.079 into an emotion and then be able to to use 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:22.080 it and the scene in the work. So here's but 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:25.640 what's interesting to me is when you show up in 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:30.959 films and you come across as very vulnerable and very tender, 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:36.040 you know you're a handsome leading man. The first movie 0:11:36.080 --> 0:11:39.960 that you star in is what pp ganche Village diner 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:44.559 pupla grange village and ensemble the nine and half Weeks. 0:11:47.120 --> 0:11:48.840 That girl who's in that movie, but what's her navy? 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:56.559 Remember her? The Blonde with Georgia um so pupla greendige village. 0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:59.320 That is probably your first starring role, correct, not an ensemble. Yeah, 0:11:59.360 --> 0:12:01.600 and it happens to be my favorite movie that I've 0:12:01.640 --> 0:12:03.920 ever made. Why how can you say that? I think 0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:13.000 because Eric Roberts is probably him and him de Niro 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:16.040 and Chris Walking the best three actors I've ever worked with. 0:12:17.120 --> 0:12:19.280 And Eric was on fire at the time. He just 0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:22.080 come off King of the Gyp season and he was 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:26.880 the hottest actor on the planet. And it's to me 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:31.320 it's a shame that he doesn't work more now. Um, 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:34.280 and he was. I had to be on my toes 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:38.960 with Eric. Eric is a is a great actor. And uh, 0:12:39.280 --> 0:12:40.920 I'll say that to the day I go to my grave. 0:12:41.120 --> 0:12:42.720 But when you come onto the set of a film 0:12:42.760 --> 0:12:45.960 early on, did you rely on directors to help you 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.800 at all? Today? Um? Well, Levinson was the first time 0:12:48.840 --> 0:12:51.840 director at the time. You know. Um, he was more 0:12:51.840 --> 0:12:54.800 of a writer where I was really happy. He was 0:12:54.880 --> 0:13:00.320 working with Coppola on Rumble Fish and and then I 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:04.120 did three movies with Simino, and then of course the 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:07.760 movie with Arean Line, and those three were real actor directors. 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:12.040 He was so well prepared. He does an enormous amount 0:13:12.040 --> 0:13:15.880 of pre production and research himself. And when I did 0:13:16.000 --> 0:13:19.920 Year the Dragon with Semino, I was playing a cop 0:13:21.320 --> 0:13:25.880 and uh, he actually made me meet the real Stanley White, 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:30.280 and he made me he ordered me too. I had 0:13:30.320 --> 0:13:33.320 to Back then they didn't have cell phones at peepers, 0:13:34.000 --> 0:13:37.520 and the real Stanley White was a homicide cop, and 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:40.240 so he gave me this peeper and every night that 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:46.000 there was a homicide, I had to go. And I 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:49.160 went on thirty eight homicides with him, and the first 0:13:49.480 --> 0:13:53.000 three or four it was terrifying for me. I mean 0:13:53.040 --> 0:13:54.920 I just didn't want to see dead body, you know. 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:57.680 And then after like the fourth or fifth one, it 0:13:57.800 --> 0:14:02.920 was nothing. It's interesting. Yeah. Um. The only thing that 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.040 really stuck with me that was to this day that 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:08.280 was terrifying was he made me go to an autopsy. 0:14:08.640 --> 0:14:12.200 And I've never been to a uh that kind of 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:14.800 place before. But you don't forget it once you've gone inside. 0:14:14.840 --> 0:14:21.280 And he wanted me to really sink into this. This 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:25.520 This was one badass cop. And I, you know, Stanley 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.120 and I to this day are really close. And uh, 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.880 he's just this tattooed, muscled, you know cop that did 0:14:31.920 --> 0:14:38.080 two tours in Vietnam and really intelligent. Um. I went 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.320 out with him for three months, you know, before we 0:14:40.360 --> 0:14:42.640 did the movie. So when I walked over to a 0:14:42.720 --> 0:14:45.160 dead body, I knew. You know, you've you look for 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.960 the defensive wounds on the hands, You look at it. 0:14:48.040 --> 0:14:49.720 You can look at the gums and tell how long 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:53.840 the person has been dead. You look at the different 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:56.680 colored blood that's on the ground, and if it's a 0:14:56.760 --> 0:14:59.560 darker red, that means it hit like a liver along 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:04.760 or a art So Chimino was. He picked out every 0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.240 thread of clothes I wore, and I usually don't want 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:10.360 anybody do that. But did you trust him? Why? You 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.360 just liked him? Because I respected him. He just connected 0:15:13.440 --> 0:15:16.840 what he absolutely same thing with Coppola and with the 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:20.080 Adrian line, you know from boxing, and I don't stand 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:22.560 up straight, you know, I hunt over and I ure 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.640 and it's just a habit and Adrian as I'd be 0:15:25.760 --> 0:15:29.320 doing the scene. Sometimes I would he Adrian would look 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:31.840 at me and he put his shoulders back, you know, 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:34.080 and it meant for me to stand up, you know, 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:37.200 just but the adjustments that Adrian Line is not known 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.560 as an actor's director, but he's so intelligent and he's 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:43.560 so prepared, and he you know, he doesn't he does 0:15:43.600 --> 0:15:45.920 a movie like every nine to twelve years. But why 0:15:45.960 --> 0:15:47.480 doesn't he make films that? Do you keep in touch 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:49.640 with him? I do see him, you know, Um, why 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:52.840 isn't he make any films anymore? He's just an eccentric bird, 0:15:52.960 --> 0:15:55.720 doesn't well, let's put it this way. It's no picnic 0:15:55.800 --> 0:16:00.000 making a movie, right. Everybody has an right, but everybody 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.320 he has an idea of oh, you're in the movie business. 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:05.520 But we spent eighty percent of the time sitting on 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:10.640 our trailer. Wait, you know, and uh, I think, I 0:16:10.680 --> 0:16:13.560 don't know, he's made nothing in the last two years. 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:16.680 And this is just tragic because he's he's a great filmmaker, 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:21.000 and Shamino hasn't made a movie and sixteen years or whatever, 0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:23.680 and you don't think he doesn't care anymore. I don't 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:25.640 know what it is with Michael Um you keep in 0:16:25.640 --> 0:16:29.240 touch with him, Yes, I do. He does Thunderbolt and Lightfoot. 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:31.600 Eastwood says to him, you could direct the film he 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:33.840 does his first film. Because he directed a lot of 0:16:33.840 --> 0:16:37.640 commercials of one of Bridges of Jeffrides best performances. The 0:16:37.680 --> 0:16:39.640 film makes a lot of money. They say to him, 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:42.800 He's going to do Deer Hunter. He wins the Oscar. 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.760 It's like this fairytale. Well, look at the acting performances 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:50.320 and Deer Hunter, from from de Niro to John Savage 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:53.360 to Chris walk into Meryl Streep to everybody was in 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:56.960 the fucking movie. Was just everybody was great in that movie. 0:16:57.520 --> 0:17:00.320 And then and then of course he does Heaven's Gay eight. 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.440 I was in that too, exactly exactly, and it seems 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:06.840 like like all the goodwill is undone by the one film. 0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:08.480 And then you start to make a couple of films 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:10.960 with him after that. Yes, but after that there was 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:13.959 a backlash against him because of what happened with United Artists, 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:15.960 the crumbling a United artist with what was he like 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:17.480 to work with them? The two films you made after 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:22.600 Havings came, Um, I did Desperate Hours, whether with Anthony Tony, 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:30.800 which his named Hopkins. Uh. This the industry by the 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:33.480 time after Heavens came out, and everybody was against him. 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:35.560 So when we did a Year of the Dragon together, 0:17:36.080 --> 0:17:42.439 they they they purposely tore him a new asshole. I 0:17:42.480 --> 0:17:44.680 loved Chimino, and he also taught me a lot of 0:17:44.720 --> 0:17:52.200 valuable lessons that I've stayed with me. Um. I remember 0:17:52.240 --> 0:17:55.440 when when The Year the Dragon came out, and Uh, 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:59.320 I enjoyed working with somebody that I had so much 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:02.280 respect for and that I have so much respect for. 0:18:03.080 --> 0:18:06.359 And then I was so much wanted to please and 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:10.280 I wanted him to two. I wanted to please him 0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:12.959 so badly. I would do anything too. I would go 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.240 just through through walls, and I did go through walls 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:19.320 from him. I had a lot of blood on me 0:18:19.359 --> 0:18:23.800 on that movie. Um. He said to me when the 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:26.120 movie came out and it didn't get received well, but 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:30.679 it was mainly because of of the industry and the 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:34.200 people wanted to break him and they weren't going to 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:36.080 give him a fair shape. Right he did so. I 0:18:36.160 --> 0:18:38.840 remember I was reading reviews one day of all the 0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:40.840 papers in the United States, and I had a big 0:18:40.880 --> 0:18:43.639 pile on the left side that were the good reviews. 0:18:44.280 --> 0:18:47.240 We're not a big pile of medium sides file that. 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:50.359 I had a gianantic pile on the right side. And 0:18:50.480 --> 0:18:55.120 I read every review from every every city. And there 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:59.840 were a lot of bad reviews, and unjustly so. And 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.440 I remember we were writing as Black Cheep and I 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:07.880 I was so upset. I started to cry and Michael 0:19:07.960 --> 0:19:11.160 pulled the jeep over and he says, what the funk 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:16.119 are you upset about? And I'm going Michael's he says, 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:18.399 he says, did you read the good reviews? And I 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:22.240 said yes, He says, and how did they make you feel? 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:24.200 And I said good? You know? He said did you 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:26.119 read the bad reviews? And I said yeah, how do 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:28.440 they make you feel? And I said, well, that's what 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:32.159 I'm And he says, listen. He said, do you know 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.800 those people that wrote there was reviews? And I said no, 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:37.120 and he says, I don't know them either. He says, 0:19:37.160 --> 0:19:39.160 what do you care about what someone thinks so writes 0:19:39.240 --> 0:19:42.000 about you that you don't know, And he says, if 0:19:42.040 --> 0:19:44.639 you can't handle reading the bad ones, don't read the 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:48.640 good ones either. And from that day on, I've never 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:53.760 read a review or a remark in my life. The 0:19:53.880 --> 0:19:56.920 film I've done, even when people said, no, the kindest 0:19:56.960 --> 0:19:59.880 thing about you and the rest of it, doesn't it? No, No, 0:20:00.040 --> 0:20:01.919 you know what happened. We're going to get to that 0:20:01.960 --> 0:20:03.280 period in a minute. But I want, I want, I 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.040 want to go back, and I want to say when 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:08.720 you did movies back then, and you were starring in 0:20:08.760 --> 0:20:10.320 films and you were leading man with a lot of 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:13.600 films back then, what scripts did you choose and why 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:15.479 was that? Was that a yes because it was Chemino? 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:18.840 It was absolutely yes, because it was Michael Chremino. No, 0:20:18.880 --> 0:20:20.240 you didn't care about the being a remake of the 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:24.159 Bogart film? Absolutely not. Did it intimidate you know? I 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:26.520 would do anything with Michael. It was all about Michael. 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:28.560 It's the same thing with Francis Coppola, where it's the 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:30.880 same thing with are you in line? And when when 0:20:32.000 --> 0:20:35.439 time goes on? Did you feel Maybe you didn't, but 0:20:35.440 --> 0:20:38.000 I'm wanted did you feel that there was a place 0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:40.199 that the business wanted you to be in, that they 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:42.919 wanted you to occupy? And he started to get uncomfortable 0:20:42.960 --> 0:20:48.160 with having to play I got uncomfortable when I realized, well, 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:53.479 the two things happened. I tried to. I looked at 0:20:53.680 --> 0:20:57.919 like al Pacino's career, and I admired in respect the 0:20:57.960 --> 0:21:03.600 fact that Al never really sold out and he's always 0:21:03.640 --> 0:21:08.879 stuck to doing the best work and and with with 0:21:08.880 --> 0:21:13.080 respect and dignity that he could do. And I at 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:16.480 the time, I was my agency or whatever it was, 0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:20.000 wanted me to live in Los Angeles, which I spit on, 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:24.160 not the agency Los Angeles. I just hated there. And 0:21:24.480 --> 0:21:29.199 um I used to sit for a year two or 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:31.840 three and wait for like the right script or right 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:39.760 for Tremino, and um, nothing fell on my plate. And 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.560 because once again I did another movie after all those 0:21:43.560 --> 0:21:46.679 movies Papa Grandich Village with with Eric and they you 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:49.199 know that guy. There was a change at MGM at 0:21:49.200 --> 0:21:51.000 the time and a new regime came in, so they 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:56.080 didn't really want to promote the film, and um, so 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:57.760 it was a little bit of a dry run for me, 0:21:57.800 --> 0:21:59.359 and there was no work coming in because I was 0:21:59.359 --> 0:22:03.240 waiting for you know, Jamino or Adrian or Popoland. It 0:22:03.240 --> 0:22:06.960 didn't happen. So if it did happen, what happened was 0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:09.879 this piece of ship fell on my plate and they 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:12.920 offered me a boatload of money and like a whore. 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:16.000 I took the four million or whatever it was and 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:19.879 bought a big fucking Elvis Presley house that I couldn't afford. 0:22:20.720 --> 0:22:26.800