1 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing, 2 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:09,880 Speaker 1: My chance to talk with artists, policymakers and performers, to 3 00:00:10,000 --> 00:00:14,160 Speaker 1: hear their stories. What inspires their creations, what decisions change 4 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: their careers, what relationships influenced their work. My guest today 5 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: is actor Mickey Rourke. And if you're a millennial who's 6 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: binging on Orange is the New Black, and you haven't 7 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:28,480 Speaker 1: seen him in the Pope of Greenwich Village or diner, 8 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: I suggest you do. Rourke is an actor of great 9 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 1: focus and intensity, and he often appears to be lit 10 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,960 Speaker 1: from a fire within That fire has gotten him in 11 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: trouble with directors, co stars and producers, earning him the 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: reputation of being difficult to work with, but nearly always 13 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: with breathtaking results. Rourke's childhood was, as he calls it, 14 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: a nightmare. Before he found his acting teacher, Sandra sik 15 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: Cat of the Actor's studio, Rourke sought refuge in a 16 00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: much different place. The boxing ring. I started when I 17 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: was about eleven years old and had also I had 18 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 1: four step brothers that were the toughest fights I ever had. 19 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:10,119 Speaker 1: You grew up in Schenectady, I was born up State 20 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: New York, but I was raised in Miami. My mother 21 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: married Cox Sucker, a policeman down there, brutal son of 22 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: a bitch, which was a good outlet for me with 23 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 1: the boxing, you know. And we we grew up in 24 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: Liberty City, which was the black section of town, and 25 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,320 Speaker 1: you either were a really fast runner or you had 26 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,959 Speaker 1: to fight. We actually wed in a neighborhood where you 27 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: had to ride to school in a pack or else 28 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: you'd get your bike taken from you. And I remember 29 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: days where I was riding my bicycle alone to school 30 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: and then there's four guys, five guys whatever, you know, 31 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: waiting for me to cross Seventh Avenue and I would 32 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 1: go hide in the gas stations and until they left 33 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 1: because I didn't want to get beat up from my 34 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: bicycle taken from it. Yeah. Absolutely, When he was a kid, 35 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 1: he talked about yeah, you know, yeah, I was. I 36 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 1: was a chicken ship all my all my stepbrothers could 37 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 1: kick the ship out of me, the ones that were younger, 38 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 1: the ones that were older. And you have a full 39 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: brother and a full sister and my yeah, my full 40 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 1: brother passed away about eight years ago. Yeah. Um, he 41 00:02:17,880 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 1: never got into Joey never got never got into the boxing. 42 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:26,359 Speaker 1: He uh, he was in the marijuana business. He was 43 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,079 Speaker 1: very quiet, I think because of what had happened growing up. 44 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 1: He couldn't. I fought and he got he got quiet 45 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 1: and couldn't. He didn't trust anybody, and he was very 46 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:44,800 Speaker 1: shut down and he could only sort of communicate in 47 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: the outlaw world part of society. Um. She is, but 48 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: when my brother died in my arms, I could never 49 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:58,240 Speaker 1: speak to her again because I blamed joe being anti 50 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:02,920 Speaker 1: social and and uh to be able to function on 51 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:05,240 Speaker 1: her because she allowed certain stuff to happen. She just 52 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: turned her back to you. So boxing is something you 53 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: do with a kid. You would have to record you 54 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 1: you know you you you want a lot of fights. 55 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:13,359 Speaker 1: I'm want a lot of amateur fights. So it was 56 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: undefeated as an amateur. Uh So when you jump up 57 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: to New York and to go study with Sandra Sikat 58 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 1: correct and you're gonna start doing the acting. That what happened? Why? Um, 59 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: I had gotten a had gotten a two concussions in 60 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 1: a row, and I think I was gonna I don't know. 61 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 1: I was about sixteen or seventeen, and um, the doctors 62 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: told me to take a year off, did not have 63 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 1: any contact. And there was a kid in my class 64 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 1: in my school who was going doing acting and you know, 65 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: and he's asked me to do a play and I 66 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: had no idea, and so he talked to me into 67 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:54,720 Speaker 1: doing this play. And I thought that this is the 68 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: better than getting up at five in the morning and 69 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: running the country club where he would get up and 70 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: runner each day. And uh, you know, back then it 71 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,880 Speaker 1: was it was a ritual to you know, to do 72 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 1: your road work before the sun came up. And and uh, 73 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: you know, this acting thing I thought was a lot 74 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: easier than the grind at the gym. And I was 75 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: very undisciplined. Uh young man, and uh I had I 76 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: had trouble just listening to anybody. And um, did you 77 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: listen to see kat? I listened to her, but I didn't. 78 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,080 Speaker 1: I wasn't able to listen to my boxing trainers. And 79 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:38,160 Speaker 1: why did you listen to her? Why did I listen 80 00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:40,320 Speaker 1: to sound? Yeah? What was it about that? You know? 81 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: I said to myself, I'm going to give myself five 82 00:04:42,480 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 1: years to see if this acting thing is anything. I 83 00:04:44,480 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: said the same, we give myself one year. Yeah, So 84 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 1: I was living at the time at this welfare hotel 85 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:53,239 Speaker 1: down on Eighth Street, and it was there was an 86 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,479 Speaker 1: old man behind the desk who was a big theater buff, 87 00:04:55,560 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 1: and he would give me books to read. I had 88 00:04:58,040 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: no idea who Marlon brand Don't was or Tennessee Williams, 89 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,240 Speaker 1: Tennessee Williams. You know, I knew who bo Jack was, 90 00:05:05,279 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: Sonny listen email Griffith, you know Roberto the Round, James Dean. 91 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 1: I didn't know who he was. So it was like, 92 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,040 Speaker 1: you weren't you weren't a movie going down, not at all. 93 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,839 Speaker 1: You weren't a movie watcher. No. And I was working 94 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: construction at the time. I had I worked on a 95 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: construction crew on a jackhammer. And I remember after work 96 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 1: when I had my jeans on. I think I only 97 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: had two pairs of jeans with three black T shirts. 98 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 1: And I showed up at the hotel and this elderly man, 99 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: who older man who worked it behind the desk, Carl. 100 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 1: He was all done up, like, you know, really dressed up. 101 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: And I he says, we're going to the theater and 102 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,240 Speaker 1: I said, Okay, let's go. He goes, you can't go 103 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:45,600 Speaker 1: to the theater like that, you know. I had the 104 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: dirty jeans that just from my construction job. Some proper clothes. 105 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:51,840 Speaker 1: I didn't have any proper clothes. He dressed me. He 106 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,480 Speaker 1: dressed me up and h He actually died this year 107 00:05:55,520 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: at a hundred. You know, he kept we've kept, we've 108 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: kept in touch, and he was a hundred years I 109 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 1: call Montgomery, So you go to the theater with him. 110 00:06:03,360 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: I went to the theater and saw a play with him. 111 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 1: It was Ralph Richardson and John gilgu It was okay, 112 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 1: and you know it was it didn't rock my boat. 113 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,800 Speaker 1: It wasn't Muhammad Ali and Sunny listen. You know. It 114 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: was a whole different world for me. And so I 115 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 1: go to the acting classes and I think it was 116 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,159 Speaker 1: about a year and a half or two years that 117 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: I would go. But I wouldn't get up and do anything. 118 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,039 Speaker 1: I would just sit there and watch other people and 119 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: actually treat Williams and Christopher Reeves Pressed the Soul were 120 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,599 Speaker 1: both in the class. And they get up there and 121 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: they didn't get all the you know, emotional and you know, 122 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,599 Speaker 1: and do all this stuff. And I thought, I can't 123 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: because you know, being on the street, you can't. My 124 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: other job was I was running a massage parlor on 125 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:52,719 Speaker 1: Fort Street. I was in charge of the fly boys. 126 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: I had these young Puerto Rican kids that would you know, 127 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: I wanted to make some money. I give them sacks 128 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: of flyers and they'd hand them out to customers. And 129 00:07:01,839 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: my job was when the pimps came over, they would 130 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 1: take the flyers from the young Puerto Rican kids and 131 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: throw the flyers away because they had their girls work 132 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 1: on the street. So my job was going over to 133 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,880 Speaker 1: the pimps and I would say leave my funcket fly 134 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 1: boys alone, and if they didn't get it, I'd opened 135 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,440 Speaker 1: my coat and show them the ship and they got 136 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: the message. So well. It was weird because that yeah, right, 137 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: do a different jackhamps the street life and then acting 138 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: class clash. So it was so it was because I 139 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: had to keep you got to keep a certain face 140 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 1: on the street and to go into acting class, and 141 00:07:40,880 --> 00:07:45,240 Speaker 1: that become vulnerable. It was hard for me to uh. 142 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 1: But you auditioned for the studio and they let you 143 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: win very quickly, correct if I read very quickly, and 144 00:07:54,640 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: they said your audition was one of the best auditions 145 00:07:57,040 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: they've seen in thirty years. Because Anne said that to 146 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: me when I finally knew who because that was I 147 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: finally realized it was an amazing Well, there's a story 148 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: to that. Um I I said to my acting coach 149 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:12,880 Speaker 1: Sandra one days, you know, because I used to see 150 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 1: al Pacino at the studio and um and Chris Walkin 151 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 1: and Harvey Kite Towel and you know guys that I 152 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:26,320 Speaker 1: really admired. And I said to Sandra one day, can 153 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: I ever be as good as like al Paccino? And 154 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 1: she said, you have to work harder than the rest. 155 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,079 Speaker 1: And I understood that. But because I related, I could 156 00:08:37,160 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: understand that in the relation to boxing, you know, if 157 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 1: you you don't win the fight on the night of 158 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: the fight, you win the fight the ten twelve weeks 159 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 1: that you do your worthy, you know. So when you're 160 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:51,280 Speaker 1: sitting in the dressing room and they're wrapping your hands 161 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 1: in the door opens and you hear the crowd, that's 162 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: when you know, that's what That's when I would get 163 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: right the fear with come in. But if I did 164 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,439 Speaker 1: my home, my road work, you know, all I'm thinking 165 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: about is that that prick in the other room, he 166 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 1: didn't work as hard as I could. So with the 167 00:09:09,920 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: acting I I would literally go there after my jobs 168 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: late at night she got I got a call to 169 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 1: the key to the studio and I would walk in there. 170 00:09:20,440 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: What I would do is there was a bum on 171 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: the street. Uh. I forgot his name, but I would 172 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 1: pay him like five dollars to read lines with me. 173 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: He could hardly read, but I buy him a big 174 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: giant bottle of beer and he would as good as 175 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:35,960 Speaker 1: he could read. He would read the other lines and 176 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 1: I would. When you're in the actor's studio at night, 177 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: like around one, two in the morning and twelve at night, 178 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: you know, and you start thinking about you know, who's 179 00:09:44,040 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: been there before you, who's walked on that floor before you? 180 00:09:47,920 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: You know, it's it's it's a. It's a. It's a. 181 00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 1: It was a really beautiful feeling. It was mind blowing. 182 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:54,800 Speaker 1: And to be there all at night, and I was 183 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: there every fucking night, and I would work and I'd 184 00:09:57,720 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: work harder, and I would work harder, and then did 185 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,559 Speaker 1: eventually got up in front of people. Eventually I got 186 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:04,839 Speaker 1: up in front of people in the state field. It 187 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:09,000 Speaker 1: was okay because Sandra knew my background from fighting, and 188 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: she also knew that I had I had a tremendous 189 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 1: amount of guilt for quitting the boxing walked away. I 190 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: felt like a coward that I quit. Yeah, And she 191 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 1: had me to you know, it was a Stanislavsky method 192 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,679 Speaker 1: type of acting, of course, and she had me to 193 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: a sense memory of me in a place that I 194 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 1: loved to be. And what I was doing was lacing 195 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: up my boxing shoes. And I remember because Ali was 196 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: at the gym at the same time, and Jimmy Yellis 197 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: and Jerry Quarry, oscar Bonavet, you know, all the great ones, 198 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: you know, And I remember I had gotten these white 199 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: boxing shoes that were the same ones that Ali had. 200 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: And so when I did my sense memory and and 201 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: then I had this monologue that she had me do, 202 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 1: and I was lacing up the shoes and just everything 203 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 1: kind of just cracked, and it was like and she 204 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 1: had me she she want to say the lines, and 205 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 1: it was and then I understood what the work is 206 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: and how to make it personal and how to tap 207 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 1: into an emotion and then be able to to use 208 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 1: it and the scene in the work. So here's but 209 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:25,640 Speaker 1: what's interesting to me is when you show up in 210 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:30,959 Speaker 1: films and you come across as very vulnerable and very tender, 211 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 1: you know you're a handsome leading man. The first movie 212 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,960 Speaker 1: that you star in is what pp ganche Village diner 213 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:44,559 Speaker 1: pupla grange village and ensemble the nine and half Weeks. 214 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: That girl who's in that movie, but what's her navy? 215 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:56,559 Speaker 1: Remember her? The Blonde with Georgia um so pupla greendige village. 216 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,320 Speaker 1: That is probably your first starring role, correct, not an ensemble. Yeah, 217 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: and it happens to be my favorite movie that I've 218 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:03,920 Speaker 1: ever made. Why how can you say that? I think 219 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:13,000 Speaker 1: because Eric Roberts is probably him and him de Niro 220 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: and Chris Walking the best three actors I've ever worked with. 221 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: And Eric was on fire at the time. He just 222 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,080 Speaker 1: come off King of the Gyp season and he was 223 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:26,880 Speaker 1: the hottest actor on the planet. And it's to me 224 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:31,320 Speaker 1: it's a shame that he doesn't work more now. Um, 225 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,280 Speaker 1: and he was. I had to be on my toes 226 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: with Eric. Eric is a is a great actor. And uh, 227 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: I'll say that to the day I go to my grave. 228 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:42,720 Speaker 1: But when you come onto the set of a film 229 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: early on, did you rely on directors to help you 230 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: at all? Today? Um? Well, Levinson was the first time 231 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: director at the time. You know. Um, he was more 232 00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: of a writer where I was really happy. He was 233 00:12:54,880 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 1: working with Coppola on Rumble Fish and and then I 234 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 1: did three movies with Simino, and then of course the 235 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: movie with Arean Line, and those three were real actor directors. 236 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: He was so well prepared. He does an enormous amount 237 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 1: of pre production and research himself. And when I did 238 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: Year the Dragon with Semino, I was playing a cop 239 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: and uh, he actually made me meet the real Stanley White, 240 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: and he made me he ordered me too. I had 241 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: to Back then they didn't have cell phones at peepers, 242 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: and the real Stanley White was a homicide cop, and 243 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,240 Speaker 1: so he gave me this peeper and every night that 244 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:46,000 Speaker 1: there was a homicide, I had to go. And I 245 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,160 Speaker 1: went on thirty eight homicides with him, and the first 246 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: three or four it was terrifying for me. I mean 247 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: I just didn't want to see dead body, you know. 248 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: And then after like the fourth or fifth one, it 249 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,920 Speaker 1: was nothing. It's interesting. Yeah. Um. The only thing that 250 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: really stuck with me that was to this day that 251 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,280 Speaker 1: was terrifying was he made me go to an autopsy. 252 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: And I've never been to a uh that kind of 253 00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: place before. But you don't forget it once you've gone inside. 254 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:21,280 Speaker 1: And he wanted me to really sink into this. This 255 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 1: This was one badass cop. And I, you know, Stanley 256 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,120 Speaker 1: and I to this day are really close. And uh, 257 00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: he's just this tattooed, muscled, you know cop that did 258 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:38,080 Speaker 1: two tours in Vietnam and really intelligent. Um. I went 259 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,320 Speaker 1: out with him for three months, you know, before we 260 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 1: did the movie. So when I walked over to a 261 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,160 Speaker 1: dead body, I knew. You know, you've you look for 262 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: the defensive wounds on the hands, You look at it. 263 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: You can look at the gums and tell how long 264 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: the person has been dead. You look at the different 265 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: colored blood that's on the ground, and if it's a 266 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: darker red, that means it hit like a liver along 267 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:04,760 Speaker 1: or a art So Chimino was. He picked out every 268 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 1: thread of clothes I wore, and I usually don't want 269 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,360 Speaker 1: anybody do that. But did you trust him? Why? You 270 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: just liked him? Because I respected him. He just connected 271 00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: what he absolutely same thing with Coppola and with the 272 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 1: Adrian line, you know from boxing, and I don't stand 273 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:22,560 Speaker 1: up straight, you know, I hunt over and I ure 274 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: and it's just a habit and Adrian as I'd be 275 00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: doing the scene. Sometimes I would he Adrian would look 276 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 1: at me and he put his shoulders back, you know, 277 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: and it meant for me to stand up, you know, 278 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:37,200 Speaker 1: just but the adjustments that Adrian Line is not known 279 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 1: as an actor's director, but he's so intelligent and he's 280 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: so prepared, and he you know, he doesn't he does 281 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: a movie like every nine to twelve years. But why 282 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: doesn't he make films that? Do you keep in touch 283 00:15:47,520 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: with him? I do see him, you know, Um, why 284 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: isn't he make any films anymore? He's just an eccentric bird, 285 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: doesn't well, let's put it this way. It's no picnic 286 00:15:55,800 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 1: making a movie, right. Everybody has an right, but everybody 287 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,320 Speaker 1: he has an idea of oh, you're in the movie business. 288 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,520 Speaker 1: But we spent eighty percent of the time sitting on 289 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:10,640 Speaker 1: our trailer. Wait, you know, and uh, I think, I 290 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,560 Speaker 1: don't know, he's made nothing in the last two years. 291 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: And this is just tragic because he's he's a great filmmaker, 292 00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: and Shamino hasn't made a movie and sixteen years or whatever, 293 00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,680 Speaker 1: and you don't think he doesn't care anymore. I don't 294 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: know what it is with Michael Um you keep in 295 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: touch with him, Yes, I do. He does Thunderbolt and Lightfoot. 296 00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: Eastwood says to him, you could direct the film he 297 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: does his first film. Because he directed a lot of 298 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: commercials of one of Bridges of Jeffrides best performances. The 299 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,640 Speaker 1: film makes a lot of money. They say to him, 300 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 1: He's going to do Deer Hunter. He wins the Oscar. 301 00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: It's like this fairytale. Well, look at the acting performances 302 00:16:46,760 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 1: and Deer Hunter, from from de Niro to John Savage 303 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: to Chris walk into Meryl Streep to everybody was in 304 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: the fucking movie. Was just everybody was great in that movie. 305 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: And then and then of course he does Heaven's Gay eight. 306 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 1: I was in that too, exactly exactly, and it seems 307 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: like like all the goodwill is undone by the one film. 308 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: And then you start to make a couple of films 309 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:10,960 Speaker 1: with him after that. Yes, but after that there was 310 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,959 Speaker 1: a backlash against him because of what happened with United Artists, 311 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 1: the crumbling a United artist with what was he like 312 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:17,480 Speaker 1: to work with them? The two films you made after 313 00:17:17,520 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: Havings came, Um, I did Desperate Hours, whether with Anthony Tony, 314 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: which his named Hopkins. Uh. This the industry by the 315 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: time after Heavens came out, and everybody was against him. 316 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:35,560 Speaker 1: So when we did a Year of the Dragon together, 317 00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 1: they they they purposely tore him a new asshole. I 318 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,680 Speaker 1: loved Chimino, and he also taught me a lot of 319 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:52,200 Speaker 1: valuable lessons that I've stayed with me. Um. I remember 320 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 1: when when The Year the Dragon came out, and Uh, 321 00:17:55,560 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: I enjoyed working with somebody that I had so much 322 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: respect for and that I have so much respect for. 323 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,359 Speaker 1: And then I was so much wanted to please and 324 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: I wanted him to two. I wanted to please him 325 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,959 Speaker 1: so badly. I would do anything too. I would go 326 00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,240 Speaker 1: just through through walls, and I did go through walls 327 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: from him. I had a lot of blood on me 328 00:18:19,359 --> 00:18:23,800 Speaker 1: on that movie. Um. He said to me when the 329 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,120 Speaker 1: movie came out and it didn't get received well, but 330 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: it was mainly because of of the industry and the 331 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 1: people wanted to break him and they weren't going to 332 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 1: give him a fair shape. Right he did so. I 333 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:38,840 Speaker 1: remember I was reading reviews one day of all the 334 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 1: papers in the United States, and I had a big 335 00:18:40,880 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: pile on the left side that were the good reviews. 336 00:18:44,280 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: We're not a big pile of medium sides file that. 337 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,359 Speaker 1: I had a gianantic pile on the right side. And 338 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 1: I read every review from every every city. And there 339 00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: were a lot of bad reviews, and unjustly so. And 340 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 1: I remember we were writing as Black Cheep and I 341 00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 1: I was so upset. I started to cry and Michael 342 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 1: pulled the jeep over and he says, what the funk 343 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:16,119 Speaker 1: are you upset about? And I'm going Michael's he says, 344 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: he says, did you read the good reviews? And I 345 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 1: said yes, He says, and how did they make you feel? 346 00:19:22,240 --> 00:19:24,200 Speaker 1: And I said good? You know? He said did you 347 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 1: read the bad reviews? And I said yeah, how do 348 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: they make you feel? And I said, well, that's what 349 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:32,159 Speaker 1: I'm And he says, listen. He said, do you know 350 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 1: those people that wrote there was reviews? And I said no, 351 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 1: and he says, I don't know them either. He says, 352 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: what do you care about what someone thinks so writes 353 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: about you that you don't know, And he says, if 354 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: you can't handle reading the bad ones, don't read the 355 00:19:44,640 --> 00:19:48,640 Speaker 1: good ones either. And from that day on, I've never 356 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: read a review or a remark in my life. The 357 00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: film I've done, even when people said, no, the kindest 358 00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,880 Speaker 1: thing about you and the rest of it, doesn't it? No, No, 359 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:01,919 Speaker 1: you know what happened. We're going to get to that 360 00:20:01,960 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: period in a minute. But I want, I want, I 361 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: want to go back, and I want to say when 362 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,720 Speaker 1: you did movies back then, and you were starring in 363 00:20:08,760 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: films and you were leading man with a lot of 364 00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:13,600 Speaker 1: films back then, what scripts did you choose and why 365 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:15,479 Speaker 1: was that? Was that a yes because it was Chemino? 366 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 1: It was absolutely yes, because it was Michael Chremino. No, 367 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 1: you didn't care about the being a remake of the 368 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:24,159 Speaker 1: Bogart film? Absolutely not. Did it intimidate you know? I 369 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: would do anything with Michael. It was all about Michael. 370 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 1: It's the same thing with Francis Coppola, where it's the 371 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 1: same thing with are you in line? And when when 372 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,439 Speaker 1: time goes on? Did you feel Maybe you didn't, but 373 00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: I'm wanted did you feel that there was a place 374 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:40,199 Speaker 1: that the business wanted you to be in, that they 375 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,919 Speaker 1: wanted you to occupy? And he started to get uncomfortable 376 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 1: with having to play I got uncomfortable when I realized, well, 377 00:20:48,359 --> 00:20:53,479 Speaker 1: the two things happened. I tried to. I looked at 378 00:20:53,680 --> 00:20:57,919 Speaker 1: like al Pacino's career, and I admired in respect the 379 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:03,600 Speaker 1: fact that Al never really sold out and he's always 380 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:08,879 Speaker 1: stuck to doing the best work and and with with 381 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: respect and dignity that he could do. And I at 382 00:21:13,080 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 1: the time, I was my agency or whatever it was, 383 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 1: wanted me to live in Los Angeles, which I spit on, 384 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,160 Speaker 1: not the agency Los Angeles. I just hated there. And 385 00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 1: um I used to sit for a year two or 386 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: three and wait for like the right script or right 387 00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 1: for Tremino, and um, nothing fell on my plate. And 388 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,560 Speaker 1: because once again I did another movie after all those 389 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,679 Speaker 1: movies Papa Grandich Village with with Eric and they you 390 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,199 Speaker 1: know that guy. There was a change at MGM at 391 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: the time and a new regime came in, so they 392 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:56,080 Speaker 1: didn't really want to promote the film, and um, so 393 00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 1: it was a little bit of a dry run for me, 394 00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: and there was no work coming in because I was 395 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: waiting for you know, Jamino or Adrian or Popoland. It 396 00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 1: didn't happen. So if it did happen, what happened was 397 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: this piece of ship fell on my plate and they 398 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,920 Speaker 1: offered me a boatload of money and like a whore. 399 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: I took the four million or whatever it was and 400 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,879 Speaker 1: bought a big fucking Elvis Presley house that I couldn't afford. 401 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:26,800 Speaker 1: And uh, I remember doing this film and hating myself 402 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 1: every day. I'm talking about hating going to work, and 403 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:35,479 Speaker 1: it just I couldn't keep a lid on ship and 404 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 1: I acted out. I acted out. Yeah, there was a 405 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: lot of rage inside of me, and I was mad 406 00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,639 Speaker 1: at myself, and I was in the director couldn't he 407 00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: couldn't direct traffic, you know. And uh, I mean Don 408 00:22:50,040 --> 00:22:51,760 Speaker 1: Johnson used to tell him where to put the camera 409 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: and he put the camera there. I think I'm a Yeah, 410 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,359 Speaker 1: Harley Davidson in the all problem which blows my mind 411 00:23:01,359 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: to this day is I was working on this little 412 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: documentary thing or whatever with Bob Dylan and Bob just 413 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: making a Harley David's man it's my favorite movie. And 414 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,680 Speaker 1: I go, oh, here's the here's the most interesting man 415 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:18,480 Speaker 1: I've ever met in my life, and that's his favorite movie. 416 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,920 Speaker 1: And that blew my mind. Um, But that I ended 417 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 1: up losing the house to the bank. But I even 418 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,399 Speaker 1: I can't even drive by it. Um. I think it 419 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:32,480 Speaker 1: was a four million dollar house. I put two million 420 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,280 Speaker 1: down cash and then put two millions to renovating it, 421 00:23:36,240 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: and then I couldn't even Yeah, I couldn't make the payments. 422 00:23:39,720 --> 00:23:46,119 Speaker 1: So it all started a crumble by then, and the 423 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:51,240 Speaker 1: women became my thing. And you know, I'm just living listen. 424 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,679 Speaker 1: I mean I tell people all the time, so this 425 00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:55,160 Speaker 1: is the mistake that I made and said, I got 426 00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,720 Speaker 1: hooked on money. You're Harley David's in The Marble Man. 427 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 1: I did about eight of those, right, So for the money. 428 00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:04,719 Speaker 1: For the money, that was sort of the end of 429 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,720 Speaker 1: my love affair with acting was Harley Davidson in the 430 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:13,760 Speaker 1: More Romance. Mickey Rourke took a long time off from 431 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,280 Speaker 1: the business, and when he returned, he played almost exclusively 432 00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 1: supporting characters until director Darren Aronofsky offered him the starring 433 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,440 Speaker 1: role in a film about the redemption of an ex 434 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: professional wrestler. Rourke wasn't sure about the script, but Aronovski 435 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: allowed him to rewrite his part More About the Wrestler, 436 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: for which Rourke received an OSCAR nomination and won the 437 00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:39,479 Speaker 1: Best Actor Golden Globe and the BAFTA Award. Coming up, 438 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: listen to our Here's the Thing Archives, where Dustin Hoffman 439 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,119 Speaker 1: describes what he was doing before he got cast in 440 00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 1: the Graduate. I had been just starting to get somewhere 441 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: off Broadway doing you know, my own style of stuff. 442 00:24:57,160 --> 00:25:02,639 Speaker 1: Hunchbacked German, gay guy with a limp. Take a listen, 443 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: and here's the thing. Dot Org. This is Alec Baldwin 444 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: and you're listening to here's the thing. Before the wrestler 445 00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:27,040 Speaker 1: Mickey Rourke had no prior experience in that sport, but 446 00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: he grew up boxing in Miami, and when he went 447 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: to l A to act, he continued training. He says 448 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: he learned the concentration required for acting from his hard 449 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,080 Speaker 1: work in the gym. There was there was Hoover Street 450 00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,159 Speaker 1: and there was the fourth Street Broadway Gym and Watts. 451 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: I used to go there. There was an old trainer 452 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,879 Speaker 1: named Bill Slayton there, and Michael Doaks was there and 453 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: he had Kenny Norton before that. It was an all 454 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: black gym. I used to say, I'm the toughest fucking 455 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: way game here. I was the only way gner you know, 456 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: so um but yeah, no me. It was like when 457 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 1: the little okay, when the bell sounds, you know, when 458 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:08,520 Speaker 1: it goes ding, you gotta go brother, So that's to 459 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:13,479 Speaker 1: help me when the red light goes on the camera. Actually, 460 00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:19,359 Speaker 1: I knew it gave me a confidence and a technique 461 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: where I'm usually going to give you the best thing 462 00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: I can give you the first two takes or right 463 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,080 Speaker 1: on the first take. Who was someone that wrung you 464 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:30,720 Speaker 1: out and wanted you to do a lot of takes? 465 00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:35,000 Speaker 1: If anybody Darren Aronovski, oh yeah, in that movie, Darren 466 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: Aranowski is probably this. I would say him and Shimino 467 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:44,040 Speaker 1: have a lot in common because Darren Darren would say, Okay, 468 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 1: I want you to do this. Okay, I give it 469 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:50,160 Speaker 1: to him, and you know, I mean I would bring 470 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,200 Speaker 1: it and give it to him. And then he goes, 471 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 1: I want you to do it again. I said, you 472 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:57,199 Speaker 1: didn't get out of that shot. He goes, you can 473 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,720 Speaker 1: do it better. I said, well, I gave it. I 474 00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:03,199 Speaker 1: gave you everything I had. He goes, listen to me. 475 00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,480 Speaker 1: I said, well, he goes, you can do it better. Bang, 476 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 1: I do it, and I do it better. Okay. Then 477 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: I think, oh wow, we're done with the scene. And 478 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: he goes, I need another one. I said, I thought, 479 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: I said I did it better. He said, you did, 480 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: but you showed me. He says, he goes there was 481 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: something wrong with the camera. You know. He really start 482 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,040 Speaker 1: you know, and then he says, I want you to 483 00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,560 Speaker 1: do this, and da da da da da, And we're 484 00:27:29,600 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: talking about twelve. It's twelve thirty now, Okay. I'm trying 485 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: to get the help back to Manhattan from Hoboken, you know. 486 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,399 Speaker 1: And I had a dog at the time named Loki, 487 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: who I had for god seventeen and a half years. 488 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,840 Speaker 1: And look, he was having heart trouble and she was 489 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:52,760 Speaker 1: in the hospital that night. And so one of the takes, 490 00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 1: Darren said to me, I don't want to have to 491 00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: tell you this, but we got a call from a 492 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:04,639 Speaker 1: hospital and I said, looky he said yeah, And I said, um, 493 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,000 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I don't want to bother you right now. 494 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,040 Speaker 1: I'll tell you after, but I need you to do 495 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:15,520 Speaker 1: another take. You know. He you know, he walked with you, 496 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 1: but I let him. I knew what he was doing, 497 00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 1: but I let it sink in. And then uh, he 498 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,879 Speaker 1: would he would talk off camera about my dog to 499 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 1: me and say things that got me upset, you know. 500 00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 1: And if I ever get a chance to work with him, 501 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say to him if you loki me, you know. 502 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: Well that's the other thing too. It's it's very rare 503 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,480 Speaker 1: that you get have directed that you're going to respect. 504 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,480 Speaker 1: But you trusted him. I trusted him because I respected 505 00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 1: him and I come instantly or he had time when 506 00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 1: he was pointing his little finger at me and telling 507 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:48,520 Speaker 1: me you're gonna you're gonna respect me, and you're not 508 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: gonna ever say anything to me in front of the crew, 509 00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:55,000 Speaker 1: you know, the first day that he met me, and 510 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: I said, okay, uh. And I'm sitting there, I'm thinking, 511 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: if he's got the balls that we and his finger 512 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,360 Speaker 1: at me like this, and he must be the ship 513 00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: and uh. And had you taken on other directors on 514 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,000 Speaker 1: the set before, I would have broke other directors fingers 515 00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:10,920 Speaker 1: right off if they would have done pointed their fingers. 516 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:12,960 Speaker 1: But the other directors that you really did battle with 517 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:18,520 Speaker 1: on the set even not really no, not really no. Um. 518 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: I've worked with probably more bad directors, and I have good, 519 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: great directors experience with Alan Parker, he's a really great filmmaker. 520 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 1: But what he did was because he had his handsful 521 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: with de Niro and me, and I was younger, so 522 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: he picked on me. Plus he was you know, he 523 00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: wasn't in the greatest shape, so he was pretty nasty 524 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: to me. Yeah. Um, I didn't do anything wrong, but 525 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: he needed somebody, you know. I was his whipping boy, 526 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,400 Speaker 1: I guess, and I came in with At that time, 527 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 1: I didn't have the greatest reputation on the planet, so 528 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: he was like waiting for me to do something. At 529 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: that point, what do you think that was from when 530 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: you say you didn't have the greatest ship, Because people 531 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:01,520 Speaker 1: talk to each other. Like I did a movie with 532 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:04,200 Speaker 1: a guy. I mean we didn't talk the whole time. 533 00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: I mean, when you're doing a movie with somebody who's 534 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,400 Speaker 1: directing a movie, it's twelve weeks and you just the 535 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: minute you see the guy, your hair stands up on 536 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,840 Speaker 1: your back. It's stressful, man, and you don't want it 537 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,280 Speaker 1: to be that way. No, but it's usually that way 538 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:20,600 Speaker 1: more than it is the other way. After oh God, 539 00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 1: after I'd been in the business more than a decade, 540 00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:27,480 Speaker 1: I had to go see a therapist and um, I 541 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: had some childhood issues I that had affected me. Um impressed. 542 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 1: Now it was anyone with authority who would uh you 543 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:44,880 Speaker 1: live up? Yeah, because after what happened to me with 544 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 1: one man early in my childhood, even if somebody looks 545 00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: at me sideways, it's it's on. And I don't care 546 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: if the guy's nine ft tall, it's on, you know. 547 00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:57,200 Speaker 1: And it was like if there was one time I 548 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,520 Speaker 1: was doing a movie with Walter Hill, really nice Johnny 549 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:03,480 Speaker 1: Johnny has him, and this this fucking prick comes in 550 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: the room and he's got his little polo shirt on 551 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: with the collar up and his ray pants and he's 552 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: and it's our first day of rehearsing and he's folding 553 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,320 Speaker 1: his arms and he's standing there like he owns the 554 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 1: fucking air. We're all breathing, right. And I said to Walter, 555 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,560 Speaker 1: he only said, who's that guy? He goes, that's the producer, 556 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,239 Speaker 1: and I said, oh, so I walked over to him. 557 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:24,320 Speaker 1: I said, hey, man, I said, this is the first day. 558 00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,760 Speaker 1: You know, we're just we're not rehearsing, but we're just reading, 559 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: like the lines through something. I said, you want to 560 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: why don't you just, you know, go take a walk 561 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 1: and come back when we're all done. And I can 562 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,480 Speaker 1: call him a cocksucker because to this day, when my 563 00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:40,400 Speaker 1: agent tries to send me up on a movie, he's 564 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:42,120 Speaker 1: doing you know me, He goes, you know, you still 565 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:43,720 Speaker 1: got a heart on for me, So you know what, 566 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:49,280 Speaker 1: go funk yourself, motherfucker. You and Donald Trump should get 567 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,600 Speaker 1: a hotel room. You know. I got too many stories 568 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,040 Speaker 1: like that I want to tell. But no. But but Parker, 569 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: that was not a positive experience because I think it's 570 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,120 Speaker 1: a pretty good It wasn't really a lot of interesting 571 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 1: and and he it was weird because he ended up 572 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,920 Speaker 1: bad mouthing me. And then I didn't understand why because 573 00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: I gave him everything I had, you know, And Okay, 574 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: let's put it this way. The easiest way to gain 575 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,200 Speaker 1: any power in Hollywood, in the movie business is if 576 00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 1: you can write. And so lots of times you get 577 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: writers have become directors, and then because they have been 578 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,720 Speaker 1: writing in the in the room for the last or 579 00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:33,960 Speaker 1: twenty years or whatever, they don't know how to interact 580 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:37,440 Speaker 1: with an actor or or to bring a performance out 581 00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:42,080 Speaker 1: of an actor who can't fucking act at all. And uh, 582 00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:46,360 Speaker 1: that's where it gets really difficult because you've got a 583 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: guy in there and they said, oh, his last movie 584 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 1: made two million dollars that he wrote, and now he's directing, 585 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,720 Speaker 1: but he can't direct at all because he doesn't know 586 00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:59,640 Speaker 1: how to relate to an actor or get a performance 587 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: out of someone else who can't, who isn't up to 588 00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: the hype. And uh, I went through that recently, and uh, 589 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: it's no fun when you're on a movie set the 590 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 1: last let's say ten years or more. I mean, I'm older, 591 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: now years old. I started making movies ninth in the 592 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:25,040 Speaker 1: mid eighties, said the TV before that, and I talked 593 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:27,000 Speaker 1: about how it's changed, you know, and then when I'm 594 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: on the side of a film, how is it changed 595 00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,320 Speaker 1: for you. Let's put it this way. If I could 596 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:35,280 Speaker 1: get a job walking dogs and get paid the same 597 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: amount of do making movies, I walk dogs the rest 598 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,200 Speaker 1: of my life and never make a movie again. I 599 00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,920 Speaker 1: loved my wife more than anything. My wife and my 600 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:45,520 Speaker 1: kids weren't but I said, if I had met these 601 00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: two dogs before I met you, we wouldn't be married. Well, 602 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,280 Speaker 1: i'd have my two No, I mean, the movie business changed, 603 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,800 Speaker 1: has changed a lot to the point where it's just 604 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 1: you know, Um, I'm not gonna go into any bitching 605 00:34:00,040 --> 00:34:02,880 Speaker 1: up and growing and growing about things just because I'm 606 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,000 Speaker 1: not going to do that. But it's just it's not 607 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 1: what I it was or what I would hope that 608 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 1: it would be. It's no. I mean doing a lot 609 00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:16,919 Speaker 1: of action hero movies and really silly comedies and so um. 610 00:34:17,160 --> 00:34:19,160 Speaker 1: Somebody told me the other day they're doing better ship 611 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:20,920 Speaker 1: on TV than they are in the films. Do you 612 00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 1: have to do a TV show? I don't know, you know, 613 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:28,359 Speaker 1: because with me it's I'm very director oriented, and it's like, 614 00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,520 Speaker 1: you know, I want to know who the director is 615 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: going to be and who he is, and and I 616 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,799 Speaker 1: don't want to I don't want some tin horn coming 617 00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: on and not knowing how to how to tie his shoes. 618 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 1: If they if I I don't know either one of them. 619 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,800 Speaker 1: But if I end up respecting them after four days, fine, 620 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:49,239 Speaker 1: I don't care who you what your fucking name is. 621 00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,799 Speaker 1: But it depends on the day and how the week 622 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,279 Speaker 1: goes well. I talked about how difficult it is to 623 00:34:56,440 --> 00:35:00,279 Speaker 1: make a good movie. Now, I think the scripts out there, 624 00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: there's good scripts out there, there's good actors out there. 625 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:04,319 Speaker 1: There just aren't a lot of good directors out there. 626 00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,799 Speaker 1: I think. But as difficult as it is to make 627 00:35:08,239 --> 00:35:10,880 Speaker 1: a good film, you come along and you make a 628 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:16,640 Speaker 1: very good film with Darren and there's a tremendous, tremendous 629 00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:19,160 Speaker 1: swell of good feeling for you when you make that movie. 630 00:35:19,280 --> 00:35:21,520 Speaker 1: You're great in the movie. You're great in the movie. 631 00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:27,919 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna say that back in ninety three, when 632 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 1: I drive across country to move to l A, the 633 00:35:29,920 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 1: oscars come on, and I throw my beer can or 634 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:36,960 Speaker 1: my beer bottle at the TV when Ben Kingsley beats 635 00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,279 Speaker 1: Paul Newman for The Verdict. Not that I didn't think 636 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: Ben was great, but brand of course, brings the mantle 637 00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:46,200 Speaker 1: of Gandhi into the into the theater with him. And 638 00:35:46,239 --> 00:35:49,640 Speaker 1: I thought that The Verdict was Newman's best performance, in 639 00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: its most beautifully crafted performance. And I was really wouting 640 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:55,279 Speaker 1: for ball and I love Ben well the incredible, and 641 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: and and and the Verdict is his greatest performance. And 642 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 1: he loses to Ben Kingsley, and I fucking flip that 643 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 1: when I watched, and the same thing happened when you 644 00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: lost to Sean. Nothing against Sean, I mean, I think 645 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 1: she's a wonderful actor, but he brings all the sympathy 646 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,560 Speaker 1: of Harvey Milk into the theater with him. And when 647 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:18,120 Speaker 1: you lost, I threw the fucking diet cocaine. But I 648 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 1: gotta tell you one thing, Um, I went over in 649 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,680 Speaker 1: the in the United King to the Bathta. I was 650 00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,400 Speaker 1: happy with that. That that that was a great moment 651 00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,839 Speaker 1: that well, I'll tell you what topped it off was 652 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:37,000 Speaker 1: after winning that. I remember going backstage and I think 653 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,520 Speaker 1: I had a kind of a funky speech up on 654 00:36:39,560 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: their upon the platform, and I remember Mick Jagger Kevin 655 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: gave me a hug and said, oh, thanks for waking 656 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,520 Speaker 1: up the dead for me because he was the host. 657 00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: So that was the highlight of my evening meeting. You know, 658 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,120 Speaker 1: I hadn't seen making like over twenty years, but like 659 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 1: I went like, oh, man, you know, because there's not 660 00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:58,319 Speaker 1: that many guys walking around anymore. You know, you were 661 00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 1: great in that movie. Wow, not many movies I can 662 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,880 Speaker 1: watch again. That's how powerful your performances. Yeah. But the 663 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: other thing too is Seawan and I knew each other 664 00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: a long time, okay, and I have a tremendous amount 665 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,759 Speaker 1: of respect for Sean. And if I'm gonna like not 666 00:37:13,840 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: get something and they're if they're going to give it 667 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,239 Speaker 1: to somebody, also let it be Sean Penn because I 668 00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:22,320 Speaker 1: gotta say this. You know, he's going through some ship, 669 00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,319 Speaker 1: right now. But as an actor, you look, you gotta 670 00:37:26,320 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: look at the big picture. For the last twenty five years, 671 00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:34,720 Speaker 1: twenty years whatever, there's thousands of young young men, young actors, women, 672 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 1: and Sean has set the bar really high, and there's 673 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:42,440 Speaker 1: there's there's young there's kids going to acting school. They go, 674 00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: I want to be an actor like Sean Penn. The 675 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,720 Speaker 1: same thing that when Sean and I were going to school, 676 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 1: we went, we want to be an actor like so 677 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 1: two other things. Late thirties or thirty three years old. 678 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,240 Speaker 1: You you get sick of the films and Harley Davidson, 679 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:00,920 Speaker 1: and you go do the get back into the boxing 680 00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:04,680 Speaker 1: thing your body, your physical muscle frame and eve and 681 00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,279 Speaker 1: you really blow up. You get big, you get you 682 00:38:07,520 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 1: get into what I call of a hypermasculinity phase. The 683 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: energy you channeled in your work as an acted role 684 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,640 Speaker 1: just compounding into that. You thought, I'm going to just 685 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 1: make myself big. No, I only got big. I only 686 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,120 Speaker 1: got big for the wrestler because I had to look 687 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 1: like you know, the guys that U big, Vince McMahon, 688 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,920 Speaker 1: who I think is a great guy, all those wrestling guys, 689 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,439 Speaker 1: they're all huge, you know. So I had to lift 690 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,600 Speaker 1: a lot of weights and and and do some other 691 00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,120 Speaker 1: ship and to put on the weight and eat a 692 00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:42,640 Speaker 1: lot and uh just wash ship and blow up. And 693 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: so I was up too close to like and no, 694 00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,480 Speaker 1: it was terrible. I have to now cut weight. Watch 695 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,360 Speaker 1: I eat because I fight it once seventy five pounds 696 00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:59,759 Speaker 1: and I walk around at So when I fight it 697 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:01,839 Speaker 1: one seventy five, I'd like to come in it one 698 00:39:01,960 --> 00:39:07,840 Speaker 1: seventy three. Um, so you're fighting again when I'm fighting 699 00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:11,760 Speaker 1: late April early May in El Paso, Texas. Really why 700 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 1: because it's there because you must only God knows, and 701 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: you're doing some more after that, I'm gonna I want 702 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:21,840 Speaker 1: to retire. I have. I'm seven oh and two and 703 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: now with five knockouts, and I'm going to retire at 704 00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,560 Speaker 1: ten oh into it seven knockout. How old are you now? 705 00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,400 Speaker 1: Doesn't matter a numbers, just the number and when okay, 706 00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,319 Speaker 1: and when the bell rings. Now I want to throw 707 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 1: a right hand. Then I'm gonna show throw a shot 708 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,719 Speaker 1: to the league. What's your best punch? Well, I've been 709 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,120 Speaker 1: working on Mickey Ward is a good friend of Michael, 710 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:49,200 Speaker 1: and Mickey has that liver shot and fuckingly, you get 711 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:51,640 Speaker 1: hitting the liver and any anybody gets hitting the liver 712 00:39:51,680 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: one right, right way. My last thing, and that is, um, 713 00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,239 Speaker 1: this is the question for the man who the host 714 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,440 Speaker 1: cards are of you all over Paris and you're one 715 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:07,480 Speaker 1: of the great romantic leading men. Women just completely falling 716 00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:09,480 Speaker 1: in love with you. When you had all these girls 717 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,959 Speaker 1: you were dating, and you had all these supermodels you're dating, 718 00:40:12,000 --> 00:40:14,040 Speaker 1: and you've had quite a you've had you've lived a 719 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:17,600 Speaker 1: good life. You've you've grazed in the meadow, and but 720 00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:19,840 Speaker 1: no kids, no family. You never would have a family, 721 00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:24,880 Speaker 1: No time for that. Um. I came from nightmare upbringing, 722 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 1: and I've always promised myself that if I had a child, 723 00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,560 Speaker 1: the one thing I would never do is what happened 724 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 1: to me. If I had to live in my childhood 725 00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,480 Speaker 1: over again, I would choose not to be born. So 726 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:44,960 Speaker 1: I would never let this cycle continue. And I spent 727 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 1: a lot of time in the closet squeezing my eyes 728 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:50,160 Speaker 1: and like saying, please please let me disappear. You know 729 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,879 Speaker 1: I could well two things to wrap this up. One 730 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,279 Speaker 1: is that you know in that way that you are 731 00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 1: this evening, you know, I mean, it's like super tough, 732 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:07,640 Speaker 1: the boxing, the the whole. Like I said, hypermasculinity that accomplished, 733 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,560 Speaker 1: that accompanies that, and you're this very tender person the 734 00:41:11,719 --> 00:41:15,000 Speaker 1: dogs and there's just so many contradictions to you. But 735 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:18,920 Speaker 1: I'm gonna finish with my one of my favorite moments, 736 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:20,960 Speaker 1: which is I hosted a screening of The Wrestler at 737 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,399 Speaker 1: the sho House and the young woman you were dating 738 00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:27,319 Speaker 1: at the time was there. You weren't there. And I 739 00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:29,759 Speaker 1: get up there and I say, uh, one of the 740 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: main reasons I'm here is because of what a great 741 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 1: fan I am. Going back to Pope of Greenwich Village 742 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,879 Speaker 1: and Angel Hart and nine and a half Weeks, all 743 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,440 Speaker 1: these movies. Mickey Rourke was one of the only people 744 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,919 Speaker 1: that drew me to the theater. When Mickey Rourke made 745 00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 1: a movie, I went and bought a ticket and I 746 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,359 Speaker 1: sat in the theater and watched his movies. I said, 747 00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:58,840 Speaker 1: there are actors who drink and take drugs to build 748 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:03,160 Speaker 1: a fire inside them that does not exist, I said. 749 00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:05,520 Speaker 1: And then there are actors who drink and take drugs 750 00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,680 Speaker 1: to put out a fire that exists in them. I said, 751 00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:11,919 Speaker 1: And that's the school I think Mickey Rourke is from. 752 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:14,840 Speaker 1: And she walked up to me. She goes, she was 753 00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:17,760 Speaker 1: please tell me again, what does this thing you say about? 754 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:23,520 Speaker 1: So she could go back. But the whole, the whole. 755 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:28,080 Speaker 1: I'll have a drink. But when I have a drink, 756 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:30,759 Speaker 1: I'll drink all fucking night long. So but that's what 757 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 1: I don't want to say. You know, I don't um, 758 00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,600 Speaker 1: not until al Passo is over exactly. But the night 759 00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: after the fight, I'll drink for three days in a row. 760 00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 1: But then that's it. I'll shut it down. You know 761 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,880 Speaker 1: what I'm saying? What movie are you doing next? You know, no, 762 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:48,240 Speaker 1: I have no idea. I know what movie you're doing next. Yeah, 763 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,480 Speaker 1: we'll talk when this is over. Okay, thanks for doing 764 00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:59,439 Speaker 1: this with me, beautiful. A reporter once asked Mickey Rourke 765 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: who would play him in the biopic of his life. 766 00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:05,000 Speaker 1: He said, quote, they'd have to get three people to 767 00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,600 Speaker 1: do it because two of them would die. This is 768 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin and you're listening to here's the thing.