WEBVTT - Where Did Trick-Or-Treating Come From? 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:03.400 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of I 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:12.760 Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 0:00:12.880 --> 0:00:15.920 I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Brian over there, 0:00:15.920 --> 0:00:18.400 and there's Jerry And this is Stuff you Should Know 0:00:19.160 --> 0:00:25.360 the right before Halloween. Addition about it, I get like 0:00:25.400 --> 0:00:28.120 a little kid every Alloween. I'm pretty excited about it. Yeah, 0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:31.320 do you get trick or treaters? No? Not really, no 0:00:31.560 --> 0:00:35.440 kind of life hashtag, etcetera. Yeah, And I've told my 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:39.280 story before, but I'll just briefly summarize again that my 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:42.559 house is after a big curve in the road, and 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:45.080 people seem to just stop at that curve in the road. Well, 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:47.400 they don't want to come up on old man Bryant's house. 0:00:48.240 --> 0:00:50.960 You know, the old dead oak tree with the big 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:54.480 hole in it that yeah Boo Radley hides figures in 0:00:54.640 --> 0:00:57.040 its kind of off putting. It's right on your property. 0:00:57.160 --> 0:00:59.760 And I think, uh, in my neighborhood too. They close 0:00:59.840 --> 0:01:03.040 they literally close off, the cops close off two blocks. 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:07.880 This's just this big square of streets and that's the 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:12.120 official sanctioned no stress area where the parents all just 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:14.400 walk around and get drunk and all the kids just 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:19.320 run around and don't have to worry about cars. So um, 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:22.800 everyone in my neighborhood is congregated there and you're outside 0:01:22.800 --> 0:01:25.760 of them outside, yeah, which I kind of miss, Like 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:29.080 I like tricker treaters coming to my house. Like I 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:32.360 guess I could maybe try, and well, I can move 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:34.720 a few houses in which I'm not gonna do. We 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:38.560 could casually move the roadblocks of a little further back 0:01:38.600 --> 0:01:40.959 to include your house. One of their actual police cars 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:44.800 with police officers, and I can't move them, but I 0:01:44.800 --> 0:01:47.480 could put signs that like you know this way for 0:01:47.560 --> 0:01:50.120 the best yet and then you like only two more 0:01:50.120 --> 0:01:53.600 houses right, or like leave a trail of candy because 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:55.600 I remember when I first moved to Atlanta, we rented 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.080 a house that got a lot of Tricker treaters and 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:00.720 I loved it. Man, I scared at the heck out 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:03.640 of those kids. Yeah, it was a lot of fun, 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:06.000 Like I really got that was my first big adult 0:02:07.280 --> 0:02:09.960 giving out candy night, Like the first time I've ever 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:12.200 been able to do that because you didn't have kids yet, 0:02:12.200 --> 0:02:15.720 so we weren't out trick or treating and uh yeah, 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:19.520 I made a really pumped music out like the psycho 0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:23.280 theme and scary John Carpenter stuff. I really enjoyed it. 0:02:23.520 --> 0:02:27.359 Did you like do anything to overtly scare them? Oh? Yes, 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.880 I wore a I was dressed up as a very 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:34.600 scary person, and I would jump out and scare them 0:02:34.680 --> 0:02:36.480 over and over and over. Did you really jump out? 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:39.640 Good for you? Or I would stand in the like 0:02:39.680 --> 0:02:42.120 Emily would be giving out candy and I would just 0:02:42.200 --> 0:02:44.480 be in the darkened house, like eight feet behind her, 0:02:44.520 --> 0:02:50.240 just standing there motionless. That's always a nice attack. But 0:02:50.280 --> 0:02:52.440 the point is I sort of feel like we're missing out. 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:55.120 Like we certainly enjoyed taking our daughter out, but I 0:02:55.160 --> 0:02:57.200 really wish we had kids that came by. Yeah, I 0:02:57.240 --> 0:03:00.600 wish you did too, too bad. Stupid us right there 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.200 near the main road, so close yet so far away, 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:07.000 so far away, and that's your forever house to huh. Yeah, 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:09.560 no trick or treaters ever again for you. I walked 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:12.120 in there. But what we could do is, you know, 0:03:12.160 --> 0:03:15.480 we could go to a friend's house, and that this accounting. 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:17.919 You have to jump on their coattails. You can't sit 0:03:17.960 --> 0:03:20.079 on their couch, you have to take your shoes off 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:22.720 in their house. You can't be comfortable We've long talked 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:24.720 to me and my friend Eddie and Allison, you know them, 0:03:24.760 --> 0:03:27.440 about they have a good backyard. It's about doing like 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:30.320 a haunted trail one year that like, if you come 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:32.400 trick or treating, you've got to go through the trail first. 0:03:32.560 --> 0:03:34.440 It sounds like a lot of work. It is, and 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:36.160 it would be fun, you know, I mean for the 0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:39.080 kids who have to go through the trail. Gotta earn 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:43.560 you gotta earn that free candy, earned that Reese's pieces. 0:03:43.600 --> 0:03:46.440 So we just hit upon like fifteen different themes in 0:03:46.480 --> 0:03:52.480 this episode, if you'll if you'll agree, I agree. Um, 0:03:52.560 --> 0:03:56.400 So we're talking about trick or treating here, and if 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:58.480 you look at the thing on its face, just the 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.960 words trick or treat, there seems to be some sort 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:04.800 of option here you can do one or the other. 0:04:04.960 --> 0:04:06.960 There used to be give me a treat or you 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:09.480 get a trick, basically was the equation. Yeah, they should 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:11.800 just change the name now to just treat night, treat 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:17.279 night right exactly. Um. We aren't sure on where trigger 0:04:17.360 --> 0:04:19.200 treating came from, but what we do know is that 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:22.760 it was originated in America in the twentieth century, and 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:26.360 that there was this really like brief golden age where 0:04:26.400 --> 0:04:28.800 it lived up to his name, trick or treat. There 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:32.720 was a there was an offer to not get pranked 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:35.000 or tricked, and if you didn't take the people up 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:36.840 on the offer, the kids up on the offer by 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:39.840 giving him candy, you got pranked. That was the equation. 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:42.560 It was in the name. Everybody knew the score. And 0:04:42.600 --> 0:04:44.960 then it slowly kind of moved over to what we 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.920 understand today where the police set up roadblocks and everything 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:51.960 is safe these kids these days, and it's just kinda 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:55.280 just like you said, just the treat side of the equation. Yeah, 0:04:55.279 --> 0:04:57.400 I was, of course kidding, but we'll get to it. 0:04:57.440 --> 0:05:01.320 There are people that really do decry this new generation 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:04.960 of children who just expect handouts and that it leads 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:07.719 to the idea of the welfare state and all this 0:05:07.800 --> 0:05:12.280 other garbage that I have no patience for because it's 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.960 just a fun thing for kids. Yeah, or do you 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:17.760 think they should be earning this stuff? No? No, no, 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.479 I don't feel that way. I do feel well, I 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:22.200 think it will come through loud and clear as we 0:05:22.240 --> 0:05:24.400 do the episode. Right, Well, we should jump back a 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:26.640 little bit to the origins of Halloween. We've gone over 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:29.479 this before in episode's past. But we all know it 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:32.920 originally started as a pagan harvest or not just one, 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:36.960 but pagan harvest festivals in general among the Celts over 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:42.400 in the UK and uh, that evolved into Halloween, but 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:44.360 it had nothing to do with trick or treating at 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:46.880 the time. No, it wasn't round Again, trick or treating 0:05:47.040 --> 0:05:51.240 is a pent American invention, that's right. Um. And so 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:55.520 with Halloween in particular, you've got all these different components 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:58.640 for the modern Halloween. For trick or treating, you have 0:05:58.880 --> 0:06:01.679 going from house to how you have getting to said 0:06:01.680 --> 0:06:06.320 house and asking for a treat, basically sanctioned begging, costume, costume, 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:10.120 dressing up, um, got being outside kind of parading around. 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:13.479 All of these things find their origin in the Celtic 0:06:13.520 --> 0:06:19.480 and I think specifically Gaelic um harvest festivals that introduced 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:22.600 the dark half of the year, that's right. And in 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:26.920 particular there was Salwint, which forever I've always said sam 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:29.560 Haine because that's how it spelled. Now, you said Salen 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:32.600 right when we did our Halloween episode, didn't you. Probably, 0:06:33.000 --> 0:06:36.880 by the way, speaking of Sawin or sam Haine, you 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:38.800 realized that I went to New York and saw the 0:06:38.800 --> 0:06:43.760 Misfits on. How was that colossally amazing? This is the 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.400 original Misfits, right, the original Misfits, Glenn dan ziggery only 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:54.080 Doyle Wolfgang von Frankenstein who actually specifically invited us to this, right, yes, 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:56.960 um to this uh this show, and it was that's amazing. 0:06:57.040 --> 0:06:59.320 Knock your socks off? Didn't the Damned play as well? 0:06:59.440 --> 0:07:01.440 The Damned open and then ran sid and then the 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.480 Misfits just tore the roof off the succer I saw 0:07:04.560 --> 0:07:06.360 when I saw you were going. I looked up some 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:09.480 YouTube clips of this tour and it looked pretty amazing. 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:12.640 It was amazing, and I think Glenn Danzig said that 0:07:12.720 --> 0:07:15.400 was their last one ever and so we got to 0:07:15.440 --> 0:07:18.240 see it. Yeah, you mean I had a great time. Amazing, 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:21.440 So big, big thanks to Doyle Wolfgang von Frankenstein for 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:23.880 the invite. The stage set up look great, it was. 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:26.240 It was just a really cool show and they played 0:07:26.720 --> 0:07:30.840 almost everything. Yeah, yeah, it was just really good. That's fantastic. 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:34.880 So anyway back to Swin, Yeah, so, uh, I mean 0:07:34.880 --> 0:07:37.640 that's a perfect time to mention that show though all 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:43.280 worked out, it did. Um. Hallow's Eve was the night 0:07:43.360 --> 0:07:46.200 considered when the veil between the living and the dead 0:07:46.280 --> 0:07:50.080 was the shortest, and so that's when this that's when 0:07:50.120 --> 0:07:55.760 Halloween formed, right, right, So people would dress up in 0:07:55.840 --> 0:07:59.800 like modern day Ireland, Scotland, I believe, Wales, yell of 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.360 and um. They would dress up like demons or fairies 0:08:03.440 --> 0:08:07.840 or supernatural characters who were um because this veil was 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:11.600 so thin between the living and the dead or the supernatural. Um, 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:14.520 they could cross over. These creatures could cross over and communicate. 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:17.040 So if you dressed up like them, maybe they would 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:18.960 be confused and think you're one of them and leave 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:21.160 you alone. That's right. So this now we've got the 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:25.160 costume thing going right, that's right. And uh, part of 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:29.800 that was the community getting together, uh getting drunk on 0:08:30.160 --> 0:08:34.640 you know, probably high octane mead, meat and stuff like that. 0:08:35.120 --> 0:08:37.959 And they would parade through the town. They saw Halloween 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:40.080 parades all over the place. Here in Atlanta we have 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:43.800 one of the best and little five Points Halloween parraade. Fantastic, 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:46.240 Like when you think about the Halloween parade at your town, 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:50.480 like that is centuries millennia old, that tradition is. Yeah, 0:08:50.800 --> 0:08:53.880 So we have those two things going on, and then 0:08:54.080 --> 0:08:58.640 the one missing piece is knock knock, Hey, give me candy. 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:02.240 But this we have the origins of which came and 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:05.000 it's still not Halloween. It took American kids to put 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:09.000 all this stuff together. But the European tradition of souling, 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.320 which was when kids on hallows E would go from 0:09:12.360 --> 0:09:15.800 house to house house and pray for the souls of 0:09:15.840 --> 0:09:20.160 the departed, and in exchange you would get a soul cake. Yeah, 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:22.440 which I looked up. They looked pretty good. What is it? 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:24.560 Just a little bit good. It looks like a muffin top, 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:27.840 like top of the muff into you. It looks really 0:09:27.840 --> 0:09:32.839 good soul cakes or mumming which is and this sounds fantastic. 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:35.520 I wish kids still had to do this stuff. You 0:09:35.559 --> 0:09:39.679 would have to perform a short musical number or some 0:09:39.760 --> 0:09:43.240 kind of performance to get a treat of some kind, 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:46.199 maybe a little spear change. Right, So in that sense 0:09:46.240 --> 0:09:48.720 you have going to house to house and getting something 0:09:48.840 --> 0:09:50.760 from the owners of the house, like a treat or 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:54.560 something like that. That's right, But there was a reason 0:09:54.600 --> 0:09:56.880 for that, praying for the soul of their departed loved one, 0:09:56.960 --> 0:10:00.400 doing a little dance number something like that. The prank 0:10:00.520 --> 0:10:03.480 part the prank part of the equation that also existed 0:10:03.520 --> 0:10:06.400 before trick or treating too, and in fact, that was 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:11.559 kind of the origin or the biggest tradition of Halloween itself, 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:15.440 was pranking. Yeah, and that came from Ireland, Is that right? Yah? 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.360 Supposedly in the eighteen eighties they would prank. They would 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:20.600 just run around doing pranks, and then they would blame 0:10:20.640 --> 0:10:25.720 those fairies or demons han sawen um for the mischief 0:10:25.720 --> 0:10:29.440 that it wasn't us, it was the fairies, right, I 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:32.160 mean it sounds that's how it's spelled. Yeah, it's really 0:10:32.400 --> 0:10:35.199 that's a confounding pronunciation, it is. But there you have it, 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:37.640 that's right. Uh. And then pranks back then, and of 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:41.560 course we're pretty low key uh ding dong ditch stuff 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:45.360 like that, um moving the neighbor's furniture to the roof. 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:48.839 I saw that, like flower pot on the chimney. Sure, 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:53.000 but it would also get way way worse than that. Yeah, 0:10:53.080 --> 0:10:56.040 I looked up Mischief Night. We never did that in 0:10:56.080 --> 0:11:00.120 Georgia or Devil's Night. It was also called yeah, just 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:03.600 the night before Halloween when all these pranks would happen. Um. 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:07.559 Region to region is called different. Apparently in Uh, New 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:11.800 Jersey it's Mischief Night, Cabbage Well in Camden, New Jersey's 0:11:11.840 --> 0:11:14.520 Mischief Night. Other parts of New Jersey call it Cabbage Night. 0:11:15.200 --> 0:11:20.880 UM Cincinnata calls it Damage Night. That's pretty over. That's 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:24.439 a punk band name right there, Damage Night totally, that 0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:28.720 insurance deductible night other parts. I don't know why Ohio 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.320 is so highly represented here. Beggar's Night is something else. 0:11:31.320 --> 0:11:33.720 They called it in Ohio because there's nothing else to 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:36.440 do in Ohio but sit around and wait for that 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.120 night for Hallow's Eve. Other names Doorbell Night, trick Night, 0:11:40.240 --> 0:11:45.400 corn Night, tic Tech Night, Goosey Night. And then in Canada, 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:50.040 Gate Night or Matt Night if you're in Quebec because 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:52.560 mt they would take they would steal the gate off 0:11:52.600 --> 0:11:56.960 your fence or the mat from your doorstep. And yeah, okay, 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:00.440 so they're pretty on the nose, especially Becambage Night. But 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:05.480 Devil's Night in Detroit. Uh, it became legendary over about 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:09.240 a twenty year period in the seventies and through the 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:12.600 mid nineties. I saw before they finally got a little 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:15.760 bit of a UM could put a dent in it 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:22.480 by forming Angels Night. Yeah, they kind of re rebranded it, well, 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:26.199 not rebranded. The angels were volunteers who would walk around 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.920 to keep kids from setting everything on fire, okay, because 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:30.439 that's what they did on Devil's Night. It was a 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:32.640 night of artis the night of arson. I thought that 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:34.880 it ran its course because they burned all the buildings 0:12:34.920 --> 0:12:37.440 down in Detroit. There was nothing else left. It was 0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:40.560 a real problem, though. I looked into it and like 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:43.840 hundreds of kids, Like in nineteen ninety four, I think 0:12:43.880 --> 0:12:47.480 there were like three hundred and fifteen kids arrested, uh 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:52.079 from Devil's Night fires and other stuff. In the peak 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.080 of Devil's Night in Detroit, there were eight hundred and 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:58.680 ten cases of arson in one night. Amazing in Detroit. Yeah, 0:12:58.960 --> 0:13:01.280 they would just set the city on fire. And I'm 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:03.679 sure some of these were bags of poop on a doorstep, 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:06.120 which I think we can all agree. It is harmless fun, 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:10.319 it is unless you're the steppy so overdid any of 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:12.720 the stuff? I never rolled the house. Oh you didn't know. 0:13:13.240 --> 0:13:15.800 I was. I'm so mad. I was so busy being good. 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:17.960 Never too late, buddy, I know I should roll a 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:20.520 house fork a yard. I don't know what that is. 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:24.680 The plastic forks just basically get like two thousand plastic 0:13:24.720 --> 0:13:27.160 forks and stick them in the yard. I've never heard 0:13:27.160 --> 0:13:29.280 of that. We never did that, really chew up a 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.600 lawnmar I never egged a house because I always heard 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.560 that really damages paint. But we did have the junior 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:36.320 senior egg fight every year. That was kind of fun. 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:38.360 Well you go, you got something, We get together in 0:13:38.400 --> 0:13:41.880 a field and uh the eggs at each other. Aside 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:46.880 from wasting a lot of resource with well eggs, yes, 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.480 but also um toilet paper. You really should roll somebody's 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:55.800 house at least it's great, is it? Yeah? All right, yeah, 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.199 I'm gonna roll your condo. I remember when I was 0:13:58.240 --> 0:14:01.920 a kid. Actually my friend and I rolled the neighbor's house, 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:03.560 but we had to be in or at least, so 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:06.320 we were doing it basically in broad daylight. It was 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:10.760 dusk at best, and the cop drove by, which never 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:15.200 happened in our neighborhood ever. Never. The cops just weren't needed, right. 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:16.640 It was just I think we talked about in the 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:19.080 free Range episode in his Parents episode, you could just 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:23.040 do whatever, and um, we had to knock out of 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:25.480 the house of the neighbor whose house we just rolled 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:27.840 to let us in to hide from the cop, and 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:30.000 she went out and told the cop like, it's it's fine, 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.840 don't worry about it. We roll her house and had 0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:35.640 to get safe harbor from her. Yeah, and you can't 0:14:35.640 --> 0:14:38.840 really clean up a roll house, can't you. You can, 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.360 And if they come tell your parents what you did. 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:43.960 The rain makes it way worse. Yeah, but I mean 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:47.240 you can't just right, some of it's inevitably stuck up there. 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:49.680 But you can pull it down as as gingerly as 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:52.040 you can to get as much as you can. But no, 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:55.040 something's going to be left over, all right, I'm gonna 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:58.600 roll a house, Okay, just know whose house you're rolling like, 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:00.440 you don't want to get shot at her. And I 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:02.400 don't see that anymore either, I feel like it. I mean, 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:04.120 I don't live in the suburbs. Maybe it's a little 0:15:04.120 --> 0:15:06.840 more prone to happen there, but it seems like a 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:11.160 lost art very well. Maybe I don't know anybody who rolls. 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:14.400 I just assumed it was because we'd outgrown it, you know. 0:15:14.560 --> 0:15:19.320 Emily called it t being a house. Yeah that's Ohio. Yeah, alright, 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:23.280 let's take a break. Were barely talked about this. I 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:25.440 think we're one page in good that's great, all right, 0:15:47.080 --> 0:15:59.440 stuff you should know, stuff you should you shouldn't know. Alright. 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:02.680 So to recap Chuck, we have the costumes in play now, 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:07.920 we have being out on Halloween nights sometimes parading drunkenly community. Um, 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:10.760 we have going from house to house, and we have 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:13.920 the prank factor. That's all of these things are out 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:17.280 there floating around, have been out there for centuries, millennia 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.280 by the time America is born and makes it to 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:23.360 the twentieth century. And at some point some kids said, 0:16:24.160 --> 0:16:26.800 we think, hey, you know what, we can pull all 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:30.040 this together and turn it into something really amazing and 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:33.320 peculiar and unique called trick or treating. That's right. You 0:16:33.360 --> 0:16:39.920 found a great piece, uh from a sociologist named Samira Kawash, 0:16:40.480 --> 0:16:45.720 great name called gangsters, pranksters and tricker treating ninety to 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:50.360 nineteen sixty. And is this that pure period that you 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:53.720 were talking about where she thinks that American kids just 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.960 created this thing. Yeah, there's two historical views because we 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.000 don't know where it came from. One historical view and 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:03.600 I think this is what co Wash believes to is 0:17:03.640 --> 0:17:06.000 that it was actually kids who figure this out. Which 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:09.320 is great. Who said we can extort adults to not 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:12.480 prank them if they give us treats and that it 0:17:12.600 --> 0:17:17.400 was a genuinely a kid invention of kids they made 0:17:17.400 --> 0:17:20.880 it up, and um, there's some evidence for that kind 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.720 of thing. A lot of like the early newspaper accounts 0:17:23.720 --> 0:17:26.280 of it kind of called the kids gangsters and say 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:29.479 they're extorting people. It's also possible that was like written 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:32.560 super tongue in cheek and that that dry. It was 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:36.080 kind of dry and lost to the ages. The other 0:17:36.840 --> 0:17:40.240 historical view is that the kids were out pranking and 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:43.560 doing the pranks and it was the adults that introduced 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:47.280 treats into the equation to buy them off, Yeah, to 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:52.320 keep them from pranking. Uh. Los Angeles possibly as the 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:58.560 point of origin. Um, and this one wealthy kids. I 0:17:58.600 --> 0:18:00.920 guess that makes sense that this would be the idea 0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:04.480 of like kids of privilege, you know, like come around, 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:08.119 give me stuff. But apparently in Los Angeles, kids in 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:10.119 the wealthy parts of town would dress up and their 0:18:10.160 --> 0:18:13.119 parents would take them around from house to house. And 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:18.000 this is, um, this is that pre nineteen thirty period though, Yeah, 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:19.880 they think sometime in the twenties. And if you think 0:18:19.920 --> 0:18:23.320 about it, that really resembles what we do today. Yeah, 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:28.320 But in between that origin and where where we've arrived today, 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:32.240 there was this pure period nineteen thirty and nineteen sixties. 0:18:32.320 --> 0:18:34.560 Some people might even take it a little further beyond that, 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:39.800 where the kids seem to have run the show. And um, 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:43.320 there there really was both sides of the equation a 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.760 trick or a treat, right, But that term actually was 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:49.760 in nine seven and an article rights that the first 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:53.359 time they found the two words in print together our 0:18:53.400 --> 0:18:56.359 guess three words. That was in an article about a 0:18:56.400 --> 0:19:01.960 town uh called Blackie and Albert to Canada. And it 0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:03.520 seems like all of it was sort of on the 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:07.080 West coast early on. Yeah, and again they think possibly 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:09.919 it did originate in Los Angeles, or it may have 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.080 originated in multiple towns on the West Coast roughly at 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:15.840 the same time. But we're thinking twenties because in nineteen 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:19.800 nineteen there was a book by Ruth Edna called Ruth 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:22.320 and Nickel Ruth endic Kelly called the Book of Halloween, 0:19:23.440 --> 0:19:25.720 and it didn't mention any kind of trick or treating 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:29.640 in there. No, And it's like an exhaustive, comprehensive homemakers 0:19:30.480 --> 0:19:32.880 would have been in there for sure. And you gotta think, 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:35.480 like poor Ruth and Nickelly' is like, gosh, if I 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:37.920 just waited like two years and put this book out, 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:40.440 they're gonna come up with something brand new with Halloween. 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.639 Two years after I come up with this book, I 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.040 wrote the book on it. Not quite now it's out 0:19:46.040 --> 0:19:48.399 of date, but they did find mentions of it in 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:55.800 newspapers out West Portland, Washington, Reno, Nevada, Nevada, Helena, Montana. 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:58.040 And you can kind of track its progress from the 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:02.640 dates and mentions in West these paper articles. Right. Yeah. Um, 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:05.639 So there's those two sides. One say that it was 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:09.000 kids who came up with it on their own. Um, 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:11.199 perhaps they were introduced with the idea of going from 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:14.879 house to house to get treats in Los Angeles, but 0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:17.280 then they said, well, we're also doing these prankings. Maybe 0:20:17.280 --> 0:20:18.960 we can say, hey, we won't prank you if you 0:20:19.000 --> 0:20:21.719 give us a treat. There's that view. The other view 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:25.359 again is that, um, it was adults who said, whoa kids, 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:27.600 You know, we don't want you setting fires any longer, 0:20:27.800 --> 0:20:31.359 derailing street cars because every once a while somebody would die, 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:35.840 people would get shot at by angry neighbors. Um. Sometimes 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:37.800 somebody would be in one of those buildings that they 0:20:37.800 --> 0:20:40.080 set on fire and they die. People would die in 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:42.399 a building that kids set on fire as a Halloween prank. 0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.120 So for the most part, though, it was this kind 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:48.879 of um tolerated as one night a year when the 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:53.399 kids basically had power and we're allowed to run the show. UM. 0:20:53.440 --> 0:20:56.440 So that this idea, this other historical view that adults 0:20:56.480 --> 0:20:59.080 finally said, hey, you know, we're not gonna just say 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:01.280 you can't do prank king. They'll probably be a bad thing. 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:04.480 But why don't we just start having parties on Halloween 0:21:04.560 --> 0:21:07.159 night while we're out pranking, and they'll be cider and 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:09.640 donuts and you can come inside and bob for apples 0:21:09.680 --> 0:21:13.400 and maybe do that instead of running around pranking the neighborhood. 0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:16.199 And once you did do that, you went from and 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:18.840 this is um samir co washed putting it like you 0:21:19.359 --> 0:21:23.440 under the rules of society. You went from this powerful 0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:25.720 kid who could levy a prank on you if he 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:28.639 or she wanted to, to a house guest of the 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:31.320 adult who now had you in and had given you 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:34.080 donuts and cider. You're really going to set their house 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:36.119 on fire as a prank. After that, of course, not, no, 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:39.200 you're not going to so. In this sense, trigger treating 0:21:39.720 --> 0:21:44.320 was something the adults introduced to keep kids from carrying 0:21:44.359 --> 0:21:46.720 out these pranks. Yeah, and it was by the time 0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:49.080 World War two came around. It was a big thing 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:52.480 in the nineteen forties. But of course, with the sugar 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:55.320 ration ng and just the fact that there was World 0:21:55.359 --> 0:21:57.520 War Two going on, it put a dent in it 0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:01.000 for a little while. But it came back um bigger 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:03.280 than it ever had been after the war. And I 0:22:03.320 --> 0:22:07.960 mean seriously, it came very close to dying from World 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:10.520 War Two. It was pretty new. It hadn't gained that 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.119 much traction. There were a lot of cranks and grumps 0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:15.080 who were not happy about this kind of thing. I'm 0:22:15.080 --> 0:22:18.120 curious what else had died in the war and never 0:22:18.200 --> 0:22:20.680 came back. There's got to be lots of little things. 0:22:20.680 --> 0:22:23.840