1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, welcome to How to Citizen with Baritune Day, a 2 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: podcast that reimagine citizen as a verb, not a legal status. 3 00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:11,680 Speaker 1: This season is all about tech and how it can 4 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: bring us together instead of tearing us apart. We're bringing 5 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: you the people using technology for so much more than 6 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 1: revenue and user growth. They're using it to help us citizen. 7 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: Can you take me to the scene of the march itself? Yes, 8 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:45,880 Speaker 1: exterior daytime, American Capital. A group of young people are standing, 9 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 1: how the stage set up with a big banner and 10 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 1: a bunch of signs, flags and all sorts of things, banners, everything. 11 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: You're in the power and I feel its energy and 12 00:00:55,840 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: it's incredible. So keep it up, okay. Rallying for the 13 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: climate and getting ready for the marchatives the priority for you. 14 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: And it just absolutely starts pouring. Just torrential downpour. It 15 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: was raining so hard. Like I'm not talking like oh 16 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 1: like it drizzled, I'm talking torrential downpour. Your phone vibrates 17 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 1: saying flash flood alert, not safe to be outside. And 18 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:31,160 Speaker 1: I remember crying and being really upset throughout the whole 19 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: thing of that, just like, oh no, it's not like 20 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,120 Speaker 1: a sunny beautiful day like I wanted it to be. 21 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 1: Why did it have to rain? We worked so hard 22 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: for this day, for a whole year and everything like that. 23 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: A lot of the water protectors from Standing Rock were 24 00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:51,880 Speaker 1: there that day. They came all the way from different 25 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,520 Speaker 1: reservations to to come be at the march, and Seby 26 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: Medina Tayak, who is an Indigenous climate activist, kept emphasizing, 27 00:01:59,720 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 1: like utter is life, there's nothing inherently wrong with it. Raining, 28 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: water soaked like wet rats, just dripping like we had 29 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: all just been through a very unforgiving shower, and the 30 00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: paint from some of our signs was like just it dripped, 31 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: like it literally bled into the canvas of one of 32 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 1: our banners. But we still marched, we still rallied. One 33 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 1: of the rally leaders yelled out the rain brings out 34 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 1: the real ones, and so it was just a bunch 35 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 1: of like the real ones, just in it together, finishing 36 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,200 Speaker 1: this march with rain ponchos, trying to stay warm, and 37 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: it was just this emotional sense of solidarity and family. 38 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 1: The pictures from that day it's just us like crusading 39 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:49,839 Speaker 1: against the storm, and you can see them just look 40 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,919 Speaker 1: up zero our Youth Climate March. The next day in 41 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: the New York Times. We had a full spread in 42 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: the Sunday Times about the work that we were doing, 43 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 1: and we still made an impact, act like we were 44 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: making a difference. I like to think that Mother Earth 45 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 1: was also weeping out of appreciation, you know, for you 46 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: taking a stand, So maybe you think about it that 47 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: way as well. She weeped in a temperature that was 48 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: a little colder than preferred. If I appreciate it, and 49 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: I love her sentiment. But if the next time she 50 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,639 Speaker 1: weeps out of appreciation for an action that I do outdoors, 51 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,240 Speaker 1: if it could not make me shiver, that would be amazing. 52 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: I'll put in a word. You put in a word. 53 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: I'm grateful for her, But I would have just I 54 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: was very cold. Jamie mark Goland is a nineteen year 55 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 1: old global leader in the fight against climate change. She 56 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:47,840 Speaker 1: co founded Zero Hour, a youth led movement of activists 57 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:52,119 Speaker 1: who are organizing grassroots efforts for environmental issues. Jamie wears 58 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: a ton of hats as an organizer, activist, author, and 59 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 1: fellow podcaster. The future of the planet is tied to 60 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 1: Jamie's future. She and so many young people like herself 61 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,680 Speaker 1: are demanding action from those who currently hold power. Her 62 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,680 Speaker 1: book Used to Power gives people of all ages a 63 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 1: guide book to starting a movement. In that book, Jamie 64 00:04:14,960 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 1: details how to organize, fundraise, and communicate with people across 65 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: the globe effectively. I care a lot about the climate 66 00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 1: crisis because I like having a livable planet, and I 67 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: understand how urgent it is. I'd like to believe that 68 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:34,039 Speaker 1: tech can help us, but I just don't know so 69 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: when it comes to climate change, is technology helping or 70 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,039 Speaker 1: making the situation worse? I wanted to hear from someone 71 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 1: on the ground, fighting for the planet, fighting for us, 72 00:04:44,279 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 1: a person who was born in the age of smartphones 73 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,280 Speaker 1: and social media, who's got an intimate relationship with tech. 74 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 1: In other words, Jamie, is tech empowering a whole generation 75 00:04:56,080 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: to get involved? If so, I wanted to find out how, 76 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,039 Speaker 1: what methods are they using, and what does it take 77 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 1: to host the Youth Climate March at the age of sixteen. 78 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 1: Good to see you, Hello, Hello, it is so good 79 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 1: to see you too. Thank you for making the time. 80 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:17,720 Speaker 1: I know you're busy trying to help save our only 81 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: home planet, So just appreciation right off top for which you. 82 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 1: Thank you thank you so much. I appreciate it. Can 83 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: you say your full name, introduce yourself and what it 84 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: is you do. Yeah, hello everyone. My name is Jamie, 85 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 1: said I Margolin. I'm nineteen years old. I'm a climate 86 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 1: justice organizer film student at n y U. I'm a 87 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: plaintiff on the Youth Peak of lawsuits doing the State 88 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:44,479 Speaker 1: of Washington for continuing to worsen the climate crisis. Um, 89 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:47,400 Speaker 1: and that lawsuit is still going on. And I'm the 90 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 1: co founder of an international youth climate justice organization called 91 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: Zero Hour, author of a book called Youth to Power 92 00:05:54,320 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: Your Voice and How to Use It, which is a 93 00:05:55,960 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: guide to being a young organizer for any cause for 94 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 1: anyone who wants to get involved. I'm also a filmmaker 95 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 1: and a screenwriter and just released the pilot of a 96 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: show that I wrote and directed and acted in called 97 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: Art Majors about queer teens in college. And I am 98 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: also the host of a podcast called Lavender You, which 99 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,760 Speaker 1: is a queer media analysis podcast. So yeah, um, and 100 00:06:19,800 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: I'm a sophomore in college. Jamie, UM, why aren't you 101 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 1: doing more with your life? You're busy. I know what 102 00:06:32,640 --> 00:06:34,919 Speaker 1: busy is. So I say this as a busy person. 103 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: You're busy. It's good, good for good for you. We're 104 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: in this project this whole season talking about tech and 105 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:45,560 Speaker 1: how it can help us be active citizens as supposed 106 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: to undermine that. And I really wanted to talk to 107 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: you about tech and activism and it was very natural 108 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,799 Speaker 1: because I met you because of a tech platform exactly. 109 00:06:54,960 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: Let's check our memories here, as I recall, you hit 110 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: me up on a Twitter d M in the summer 111 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: and you're like, would you be willing to help out? 112 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: We're doing like a climate youth march and we can 113 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: use your help. And I was like, yeah, I'm down cool, 114 00:07:13,360 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: what do you need? And then I just got hit 115 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 1: with like zoom invites and text messages. I was on 116 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,800 Speaker 1: a conference call. People were assigning me things to do, 117 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 1: and I remember specifically you had a message that was 118 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: because I had access to media, I was going on 119 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:34,239 Speaker 1: cable news fairly frequently, and you're like, all these people 120 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,280 Speaker 1: talking about the climate crisis, they're not going to be 121 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: subject to it the way my generation is. They need 122 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: to have young people on talking about the climate crisis. 123 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: And you said, so, what I need you to do 124 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:49,080 Speaker 1: is I need you to introduce me to bookers at 125 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: the Daily Show at MSNBC CNN, and I jumped on 126 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 1: a zoom. I was on the Amtrak train going probably 127 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: between New York and d C. And I was on 128 00:08:00,960 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 1: this zoom with a Google spreadsheet open agree like, I'll 129 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: get you to m R Melbourne and I'll try with 130 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: Brian Williams said, like we had divided this list. There 131 00:08:10,240 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: were like five of you and a couple of old 132 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,760 Speaker 1: people like me, and it was so bold and so beautiful. 133 00:08:17,440 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: Is that how you remember? Um? Okay, I'm a lot 134 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: more of a subtle person now as a nineteen year 135 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 1: old than the way I approached people as a sixteen 136 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,200 Speaker 1: year old, where I was like do thing for me, please, 137 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 1: Oh yes, you've matured and aged. And the funny thing is, okay, 138 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: this is gonna sound terrible. But I actually don't even 139 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,600 Speaker 1: remember that conversation because I had like around that time 140 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:47,400 Speaker 1: I did that to like I was just it wasn't 141 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 1: I think it might have stood out to you because 142 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: you were like, what the hell is this? But like 143 00:08:51,559 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: I was just on so many calls and just trying 144 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:58,000 Speaker 1: to get so many people to like mobilize, and I 145 00:08:58,080 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: was a ball of stress because I was like this 146 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: smart has to change everything. I was just so in 147 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:08,679 Speaker 1: action mode that I was annoying like that on many 148 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:13,559 Speaker 1: a call. I have had moments in my life Where'm 149 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,600 Speaker 1: in this fugue state and I don't remember stuff either, 150 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: So I'm not really taken it personally, but it is 151 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: amusing to me, and I will hold this over your 152 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: head for the rest of our lives. Um. But I 153 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 1: also it's complimentary. You know, you, in my view, were 154 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:30,760 Speaker 1: right to be fired up. You were right to demand 155 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 1: that there are too many people on television talking about 156 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: this thing that I don't know what they're talking about, 157 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: and the people closer to the problem should be closer 158 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 1: to talking about these solutions. And I love you know 159 00:09:39,520 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 1: what zero hours about. We'll get into that. So I 160 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 1: don't take it as like, oh, Jamie was that annoying 161 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 1: kid they dragged me into a zoom. Jamie was this 162 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:53,840 Speaker 1: right person who is enlisting me to help a just cause. 163 00:09:54,520 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: I the fact that, like most people, I guess know 164 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: me from what I've done three years ago, and I'm 165 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 1: such a vastlet of person now is such a weird 166 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: disconnect because I'm like I was a child and I 167 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,959 Speaker 1: still am young, But there is a lot that happens 168 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:08,719 Speaker 1: and a lot of maturing and growing up that I've 169 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: had to do, just in my personal life and in 170 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: life in general, to be frank which and sincere, I 171 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 1: was sixteen, and I was very different when I was nineteen, 172 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: and I'm certainly different at forty four. Like we're all 173 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: always changing. So I'm giving you a hard time, but 174 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: it's not it's not real. So you've done something else 175 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: that that a lot of us haven't done. You've testified 176 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: before Congress back in people call my generation generation Z 177 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,240 Speaker 1: as if we have the last generation, but we're not. 178 00:10:34,440 --> 00:10:37,040 Speaker 1: We're refusing to be the last letter of the alphabet. 179 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,160 Speaker 1: What were you saying to these federal elected officials and 180 00:10:41,240 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 1: what's your take on the federal government response to this crisis. Well, 181 00:10:44,920 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: what I was saying to them is basically that it's 182 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: very rare that they hear from like a young social 183 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: justice leader, and it's a lot more often that they 184 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: hear from fossil fuel lobbyists. And so I said, like 185 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 1: for a couple of minutes that you're listening to me 186 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: right now, the vast majority of the time with the 187 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,200 Speaker 1: people in your years are the ones who are you 188 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: know funding our destruction? I talked about the Pacific Northwest, 189 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 1: where I'm from. I've talked about just all the frustration 190 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:10,400 Speaker 1: that I've been feeling. I broke down a lot of 191 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:12,960 Speaker 1: the myths that they kept perpetuating, like we can't take 192 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: action because China isn't and just all of these ridiculous 193 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,199 Speaker 1: arguments that they were making. I told them about the science. 194 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: I told them that we have no more time to act. 195 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: That how can they look their children in the eye 196 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: and tell them that they didn't do everything they could 197 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:30,160 Speaker 1: to save their lives and futures before it's too late. Yeah, 198 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,440 Speaker 1: do you think anybody heard you? I know that a 199 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,240 Speaker 1: lot of people in the public heard me, Like it 200 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 1: went semi viral and a lot of people were inspired 201 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,720 Speaker 1: by it. And we're complimenting. But the thing is, like, 202 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 1: I think the people that were amplifying it were people 203 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: that already supported my message. Anyway, it was covered by 204 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: Bright part and like a lot of conservative media, and 205 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: it was on Fox News. Another demand of the Youth 206 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: Climate Strike Group is what they're calling quote comprehensive climate 207 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,720 Speaker 1: change education. They wanted for children aged five to four 208 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 1: to five years old. Why so young. In other words, 209 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: brainwashing is easier when they're little. And they were reporting 210 00:12:06,800 --> 00:12:10,720 Speaker 1: on it satirically, but it was still coverage from people 211 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 1: who we're hearing my message anyway. It's funny because their 212 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: headlines would be mocking, like radical climate activists says climate 213 00:12:17,480 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 1: change is a racist issue, and I'm like correct and 214 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,360 Speaker 1: they say it like it's a bad thing. And you 215 00:12:23,440 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 1: made Fox News stay climate change. You made Fox newsake 216 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: and I made them stay climate change. I mean, like, 217 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: even if they're making fun of me, I did my 218 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: part when you set up this contrast of who are 219 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: politicians listened to? Overwhelmingly more time spent with fossil fuel 220 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: executives than with the future generations inheriting this world. I 221 00:12:42,320 --> 00:12:45,720 Speaker 1: wonder a lot of us see climate and the climate crisis. 222 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: We frame it in terms of fossil fuels and like 223 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:52,240 Speaker 1: industrial output things since the industrial revolution. You have a 224 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:55,679 Speaker 1: broader view, in a slightly different view of just how 225 00:12:55,720 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 1: to define this crisis? How do you define it? Well? 226 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,040 Speaker 1: I define the climate crisis as the grand culmination of 227 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 1: all of our societal evils come together in one big, bad, 228 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:12,320 Speaker 1: final video game boss. That's how I view it, you know, 229 00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:21,720 Speaker 1: I view it as a combination of the consequences of colonialism, racism, patriarchy, 230 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:26,840 Speaker 1: capitalism on steroids, everything combined into this monster that is 231 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: us causing our own destruction. I mean, we know literally 232 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: where climate change came from the Industrial revolution in greenhouse 233 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,640 Speaker 1: gas emissions. If you go back further, how did we 234 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:40,320 Speaker 1: get to a society that was so inherently extracted and 235 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 1: you go back to colonialism and the triangle trade and 236 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: the genocide of indigenous people. In that way of life 237 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 1: and existing with the earth as opposed to the European 238 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: colonial way of existing and extracting from the earth, and 239 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 1: that way of moving through the world, of not moving 240 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 1: through it in collaboration or in harmony, but moving through 241 00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:01,679 Speaker 1: it in competition and in green is the root of 242 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 1: how we're in this. And so when people are like, 243 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,400 Speaker 1: stop talking about gender, stop talking about race, we need 244 00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: to focus on climate, or this is about the environment, 245 00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: they're not understanding that we exist in the environment. So 246 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: our issues are inherently intertwined, like we are not separate 247 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 1: from it. We're not separate from the oxygen we breathe, 248 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,080 Speaker 1: because without it we would be too dead to be 249 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: having this conversation. You're very good, Jamie would very good. 250 00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: When we come back, Jamie shares the tension of using 251 00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: tech and its attempts to use her Yeah, when you 252 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 1: were first starting out, what did you think it would 253 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: take to build a social movement around climate change? And 254 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:50,800 Speaker 1: what did it end up actually taking? It ended up 255 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: taking what I thought it would take. I wasn't under 256 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: the fantasy that I would post one thing on Instagram 257 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 1: and it would magically blow up virally and then everything 258 00:14:57,440 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: would come together and it would be perfect and I 259 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: would save the world. Yea, We're done. That's not how 260 00:15:01,880 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: activism works. No, No, it's not what took me by surprise, 261 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: and which shouldn't have as the amount of people, skills 262 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 1: and collaboration that it would need. I am an only child, 263 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: grew up without a pet, and so I've just been 264 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: like kind of that nerdy girl who was I mean, 265 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: I had friends and things, but I was always kind 266 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,120 Speaker 1: of learned to entertain myself do projects by myself. In 267 00:15:23,160 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: my head, I was like, how hard is managing a 268 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 1: massive group of very opinionated teenagers from all around the 269 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 1: country going to be? It will be easy. I was 270 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: worried about the work, but I didn't think about management 271 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 1: and team building. I hated group projects at school. This 272 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: was the ultimate group project that I cared so deeply about, 273 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: and at some point it got too big to be 274 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: in my own control, and I didn't expect. You know, 275 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: when your child outgrows you and it's no longer even 276 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: about you, And that was fine. The goal was never 277 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,280 Speaker 1: referred to be about me. I'm glad when I hear like, 278 00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: people recognize your are but they have no idea who 279 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,200 Speaker 1: I am, And I'm like, that's perfect. But it was 280 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:05,600 Speaker 1: both thrilling and also scary because I had to let 281 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: go because it was like this was no longer my 282 00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: brain child, my passion, like my dream. It now meant 283 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: something to other people, and so I suddenly felt like 284 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,880 Speaker 1: I had transferred a dream onto others and now they 285 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,000 Speaker 1: were invested in. So I didn't expect the pressure of 286 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: feeling responsible for not letting everyone down to Yeah, breakdown 287 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: how you approach using technology to support your activism. Yeah, 288 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: And there's a whole chapter in Youth to Power that's 289 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,440 Speaker 1: all about digital organizing and how to use social media 290 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: to your advantage while not letting it use you. And 291 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,120 Speaker 1: the main things that I talked about were a consolidated 292 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: message things like you know, coming up with a campaign 293 00:16:45,280 --> 00:16:50,200 Speaker 1: hashtag and accounts and graphics and concise messaging links, making 294 00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: sure that things are very easy for people. You know, 295 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,400 Speaker 1: how to have a coordinated like press kit. Let's say 296 00:16:56,400 --> 00:17:00,200 Speaker 1: you're promoting an action. When zero hour was promoting our 297 00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,200 Speaker 1: youth climate marches, for example, we had specific graphics that 298 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:07,480 Speaker 1: are designer na the ANASA made, as well as some 299 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: hashtags and pre written out captions that we would send 300 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 1: to people to then post online to get more people 301 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:16,720 Speaker 1: to sign up and register for this event. And we 302 00:17:16,720 --> 00:17:18,960 Speaker 1: were using tool kits, which is just like a Google 303 00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: Drive with all of the things compiled. Also like dm 304 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: NG people, as I did to you, maybe a little annoying, 305 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:27,719 Speaker 1: but also like I knew what I was doing and 306 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: I had a real vision. So people listen to me, 307 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 1: but maybe don't be like as annoying as I was 308 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,360 Speaker 1: when I was sixteen. When you think about the platforms 309 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 1: you rely on, what do you use the most, What 310 00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: do you rely on the most In terms of internal organizing, 311 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,159 Speaker 1: Google Drive is like the thing like that is like 312 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:48,159 Speaker 1: the holy grail of all things, whether I'm filmmaking or 313 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 1: starting an organization, or writing a book. So if you 314 00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 1: aren't in on the Google drive magic, Google doesn't need 315 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: me yet. I don't need to advertise for them. I 316 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,480 Speaker 1: don't know why. I like, like we check out Google. 317 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 1: There are a small business that could really use your help. No, 318 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,639 Speaker 1: what I mean is that's the biggest internal tool. Also Slack. 319 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,440 Speaker 1: People use slack a lot. I'm using the word tool 320 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,399 Speaker 1: too much, but it is a great tool. How does 321 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 1: your hour continue to use tech to organize and stay relevant? 322 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 1: And what are y'all using a fundraise? Is there anything 323 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:25,359 Speaker 1: that feels novel about how you've deployed tech or communicated 324 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,440 Speaker 1: with each other or built coalitions because of what tech 325 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: is enabled that maybe some other era might not have 326 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:35,359 Speaker 1: afforded you. Yeah, I mean crowdfunding is huge go fund 327 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: me and action network and like crowdfunding sites or also 328 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:43,680 Speaker 1: like crowd petition gathering sites or like email gathering platforms, 329 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:48,280 Speaker 1: eat mailing servers, ways to disseminate information on a mass level, 330 00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 1: and ways to crowd fund. It's something that people before 331 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:53,120 Speaker 1: us didn't have access to where I can just open 332 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:55,400 Speaker 1: up a website, put together a thing like hey, help 333 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: us raise money for this or come to this event, 334 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,000 Speaker 1: put in the location that makes things a lot more 335 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:04,680 Speaker 1: are accessible. Do you struggle at all with the tech 336 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 1: that you depend on, given how so much of it 337 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:12,000 Speaker 1: isn't designed with our collective best interest in mind? Absolutely. 338 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 1: Social media gives me a lot of anxiety because it's 339 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: very overstimulating to know every single bad event in the 340 00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: world happening at all times. That's why there's the term 341 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 1: doom scrolling. And it's also discouraging, you know, when you 342 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:30,800 Speaker 1: see creators who you admire being censored or punished for 343 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 1: simply posting queer content or other content that you know 344 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: a lot of the algorithms consider violating guidelines or whatever. 345 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: I've used to feel the pressure to weigh in about 346 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:44,200 Speaker 1: everything all of the time, like, oh, like I need 347 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: to comment about all the things. And then I'm like, 348 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: why do I need to comment on all of the things. 349 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:53,040 Speaker 1: Bo Burnham had a great special called Inside where he's like, 350 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: can any one person in one place shut up about 351 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: one thing for one hour? Please? And I resonated with 352 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: that because I'm like, there's just so much noise. Yeah, 353 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 1: And then I'm like this is fake and designed to 354 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,960 Speaker 1: make me get addicted. It has benefits, and I will 355 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: use it for those but I'm going to create a 356 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: healthy boundary so that the number of likes does not 357 00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: affect how I feel about it at all. It's just like, well, 358 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 1: the algorithm didn't like that whatever, you know, Instead of 359 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: caring like it wants us to and using social media 360 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,119 Speaker 1: as a tool and not letting it use me, because 361 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: for a while I was letting it use me. With organizing, 362 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,719 Speaker 1: the technical element of organizing being so much simpler with 363 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: modern technology than it was fifty years ago, do you 364 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 1: think that shifts your available use of energy away from 365 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:48,399 Speaker 1: the tool to the organizing itself. Yeah, definitely. I just 366 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 1: feel like, I mean, the myth of technology is that 367 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: it makes it so we don't have to work anymore, 368 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: and it's it does everything for us. My dad was 369 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 1: telling me that back the invention of like the computer, 370 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:01,560 Speaker 1: in different things, like people who are like, wow, it's 371 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: going to be so revolutionary, Everyone's going to have so 372 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: much more time in their day. I don't think that's true. 373 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 1: I think we're more busy, stressed, burnt out, and unrested 374 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: than ever. So clearly access to digital organizing tools isn't 375 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,919 Speaker 1: freeing us up to like do other things. It's precarious 376 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: tools to be using, so you will find yourself. I 377 00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 1: will do this still where I'm like, okay, I need 378 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,919 Speaker 1: to DM someone about this event or something like that, 379 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:29,840 Speaker 1: something business related. I go into my Instagram, Okay, I 380 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,840 Speaker 1: need to send a message. I see something. Something pops up. 381 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,520 Speaker 1: Two hours later, I'm like, what, how am I here? 382 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,440 Speaker 1: And what was I supposed to do? So I don't 383 00:21:41,440 --> 00:21:44,399 Speaker 1: know how time saving it is. Yeah, well here's a 384 00:21:44,520 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 1: here's a shift. Someone listening to this. I heard what 385 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 1: you said about how we should consider the climate crisis. 386 00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:59,280 Speaker 1: They're moved, they're motivated. What do you want them to do? Yeah? 387 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:02,959 Speaker 1: I think can help in that. Like social media, you know, 388 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 1: it has its downsides, just like everything, and you know, 389 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,199 Speaker 1: people use and abuse it just like they do with 390 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:13,320 Speaker 1: any other tool that gets turned into a weapon when 391 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: in the wrong hands or leveraged incorrectly. It's just like anything. 392 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,520 Speaker 1: It's just like a knife can be something violent, or 393 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 1: it can be used to cut, you know, some carrots 394 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:29,120 Speaker 1: for a really great soup. Yes, and so for those 395 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: of you who want to use it as a useful tool, 396 00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 1: then I really encourage you to find organizations in your area. 397 00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: You have like ten dollars five dollars a month to spare. 398 00:22:38,359 --> 00:22:41,720 Speaker 1: Find a local grassroots organization online and sign up to 399 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,720 Speaker 1: help support them. For a grassroots organization, having that reliable 400 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: income can be really helpful. Use social media for good. 401 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,200 Speaker 1: Cur at your feed to be following organizations like Zero 402 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:58,000 Speaker 1: Hour or the International Indigenous Youth Council or UNAS or 403 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: a bunch of other like great accounts to follow. Do 404 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 1: you have climate anxiety? Are you feeling hopeless? Is so? 405 00:23:06,320 --> 00:23:09,359 Speaker 1: Stick around? I promise we've got some uplift and wisdom 406 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: from Jamie. On the other side, we are used to 407 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 1: conceiving of you know. I read the I p c 408 00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:32,440 Speaker 1: c's latest you know report. It's overwhelming, It's it's unequivocal. 409 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:34,960 Speaker 1: It was a word that comes across a few times there. 410 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: And I'm part of a generation and certainly those before 411 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:43,840 Speaker 1: me that can be pretty cynical. Get when I feel 412 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: the energy of youth climate activists and climate justice folks, 413 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:54,160 Speaker 1: there's optimism there. Yeah, where is that optimism coming from? 414 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: And what do you say to people who think this 415 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:59,680 Speaker 1: is just too big? We've proven unworthy this far? Why 416 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 1: would be changed now? I mean, first of all, let's 417 00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 1: not pretend like young people are all like, yeah, we're 418 00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:09,359 Speaker 1: so enthusiastic and optimistic. There is a huge levels of 419 00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 1: climate anxiety, and honestly, at this point, I call it 420 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:16,399 Speaker 1: climate depression because anxiety implies fearing for something in the 421 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,400 Speaker 1: future that hasn't happened yet, versus depression is the sadness 422 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 1: of it, in the grief of the environmental destruction that 423 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: is already happening, and that is so overwhelming, and so 424 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: for me it has been very difficult to like I 425 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: I feel. I know this sounds cheesy and people might 426 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: be like, shut up, Jamie, but sometimes I will get 427 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: to a moment where I feel the pain of just 428 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,560 Speaker 1: like the earth and the people and everything that's suffering, 429 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: and it's overwhelming, and I feel genuinely heartbroken and like 430 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: this deep grief. While I can like go on a 431 00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: podcast and talk about it and go to a protest 432 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: and organize, there's only a certain level to which I 433 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 1: can affect it. Because I'm one little human out of 434 00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: aliens on this planet. I feel that, and I feel that, 435 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 1: But I think I guess the reason why we're still 436 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:08,719 Speaker 1: in this is because giving up is not an option. 437 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 1: I just feel like it's the nature of nature to 438 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:16,439 Speaker 1: want to survive. Plants always try to grow, you know, 439 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: in weird places where they're not supposed to. You'll see 440 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: like bugs and weird animals and places where you think, 441 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: how is anything alive? It's life's instinct to keep having 442 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,600 Speaker 1: hope in itself, and so I think that's where it 443 00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:35,960 Speaker 1: comes from at this point, honestly, with this level of 444 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: climate disaster, and just sometimes I do feel like I'm 445 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 1: at Rome right before the fall, and I'm like, I'm 446 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,400 Speaker 1: learning how to integrate into Roman society when it's collapsing. 447 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: This is really weird. I feel that way a lot. 448 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,719 Speaker 1: But then I'm also like, what other choice do I have? 449 00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,000 Speaker 1: I hear you, fellow Roman, So so let me ask 450 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:59,680 Speaker 1: you this. Do you think technology is helping or is 451 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: it during the climate crisis. My main thing with technology 452 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: and the climate crisis is that I feel like people 453 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 1: act as if technology is somehow a replacement for social 454 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:16,960 Speaker 1: justice or climate justice or dismantling what has to go. 455 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,439 Speaker 1: And I think that there's a danger in putting too 456 00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 1: much faith in innovating our way out of this, or 457 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: we'll just check our way out of this. We'll build 458 00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,520 Speaker 1: the spaceship and we'll do this. Like, I feel like 459 00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 1: there also has to be some respect for the natural technologies. 460 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 1: Technology is also the ancient technologies of our planet, of 461 00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: the ecosystems of trees. I feel like those are technologies 462 00:26:41,080 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 1: that we have to respect to. And when we get 463 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: so caught up in trying to hate generalizing, but it's 464 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: it's tech bros. You know, the tech bro type where 465 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: they're just like, I know, I definitely know who you're 466 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:57,640 Speaker 1: talking about. Oh man, Like the climate crisis, it's it'll 467 00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: be totally fine. We'll like just g o engineer everything, 468 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,119 Speaker 1: and then I have the spaceship to go to Mars 469 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: and we'll just like suck in all the carbon with 470 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: my fancy new gadget. And it's like, that's not the 471 00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 1: real root solution that needs to happen. Technology does help us, 472 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:16,680 Speaker 1: solar panels, digital organizing tools, everything. The technology we're using 473 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:20,919 Speaker 1: to have this conversation right now awesome, But we can't 474 00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 1: act like it's a replacement for the real change that 475 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,439 Speaker 1: has to happen. How did you come to have this 476 00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 1: expanded definition of technology. I think it was over time. 477 00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,919 Speaker 1: I mean, part of it is like my Ahuila, you know, 478 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 1: she always would have herbal remedies and curism. We would 479 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 1: call her doctoral Lucilla, even though she's not a doctor. 480 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: She didn't even receive any sort of education. She grew 481 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: up as a campasina in rural part of Colombia. But 482 00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,200 Speaker 1: she had the ancient knowledge from her ancestors, from her mom, 483 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: from her siblings, of you know what foods and plants 484 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,440 Speaker 1: and things are good for you and help with certain things. 485 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: And that is a wisdom, a sort of ancient knowledge. 486 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 1: But I just kind of have always understood that there's 487 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: more too, Like there's other things to respect, other than 488 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: just what men and lab coats say. Like I'm a 489 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,560 Speaker 1: very scientific person. I'm not. I don't I believe in science, 490 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:20,560 Speaker 1: but I just mean that this is also science too. 491 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:27,240 Speaker 1: I also think of them as like technologies of harnessing 492 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: like the power of ourselves and the planet. Like people 493 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,359 Speaker 1: talk about sometimes meditation is like an ancient technology, and 494 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,280 Speaker 1: like I've been trying to meditate regularly and tap into 495 00:28:37,320 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: that beautiful that's really that's really helpful. It's a dope perspective. 496 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:51,200 Speaker 1: I think it adds balance to our interpretation of technology 497 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: and of ourselves, and in a moment when we're out 498 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: of balance, you know, see climate crisis. We could expand 499 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: our definition of technology to to come back to balance 500 00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,000 Speaker 1: by waiting a bit more respect for some of these 501 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:07,400 Speaker 1: ancient technologies you just talked about. We call this show 502 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: how to Citizen. We believe in interpreting this word not 503 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,560 Speaker 1: as a legal noun weapon, but rather as a verb. 504 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 1: I mean, we do stuff. When you think of the 505 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,360 Speaker 1: word citizen as a verb, what does it mean to you? 506 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:25,960 Speaker 1: I think that being a good citizen is is also 507 00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: about knowing when to question authority in the right way. 508 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: We are here at the first hour you mad in 509 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:37,200 Speaker 1: our nation's history. However, you all around the world have 510 00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 1: been working for a lot longer than this, especially you 511 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:43,280 Speaker 1: have color indigenous. You have been raising your voices for 512 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:49,480 Speaker 1: climate justice. People often criticize activists in those taking action 513 00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: as being poor citizens, bad patriots. You hate your country? 514 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 1: Why are you a bad citizen? And I actually think 515 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: it's very good citizenship to be protesting when something's wrong, 516 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: because that shows a level of love and care for 517 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: the people around you and your state or country or 518 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,280 Speaker 1: wherever you're from. If you're taking time out of your 519 00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: busy existence to fight for something, I think that's excellent citizenship. 520 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,920 Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Jamie, thank you so much for making time 521 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:20,480 Speaker 1: for us. Thank you so much for having me. And 522 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:22,560 Speaker 1: if people want to stay in touch with me after this, 523 00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,680 Speaker 1: you can follow me online at Jamie mark Golan on 524 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 1: all social media platforms, and you can read my book 525 00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,440 Speaker 1: Youth to Power at www dot youth to PowerBook dot com. 526 00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 1: Thank you, I know you have to fly to the 527 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:40,680 Speaker 1: other thing. Appreciate you. D M me. Anytime I had 528 00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: set myself up for an onslaught of tech focused activism, 529 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: I wanted this gen z radical to tell me what 530 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: apps I should download, the up and coming programs to 531 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:53,719 Speaker 1: get you organized and mobilized, and how do you use 532 00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 1: TikTok to build a revolution and save the whole dangn world. 533 00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 1: But in it, she took me all the way back 534 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 1: to ancient technology. Now, in the first half of this season, 535 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 1: we've met people who are creating whole new tech frameworks, 536 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 1: their coding, hacking, operating with thousands, if not millions of people. 537 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 1: Jamie uses Google, Drive, Instagram, and a little bit of 538 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: Slack and a lot of d m s. Although her 539 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 1: methods are less complex, it makes her endeavor more accessible 540 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: and it should be like today, a kid anywhere in 541 00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: the world can learn, connect and join into this effort 542 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:44,680 Speaker 1: with Jamie Tomorrow. Jamie's got this healthy humility about the 543 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: role of technology when it comes to solving problems. Tech 544 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: doesn't solve problems. People do. And this whole interview got 545 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:59,040 Speaker 1: me thinking about what technology even is, how far back 546 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: does it go. Some of our oldest technologies are connected 547 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:11,160 Speaker 1: to the earth. Made of the earth. We dug our 548 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 1: hands into the dirt, took the stone we found and 549 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:19,320 Speaker 1: sharpened it to make tools, struck them together to create fire, 550 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,120 Speaker 1: Learned to respect flames wild nature, manipulating that to make 551 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: meals and create comfort and hold up, Hold up, Okay, 552 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 1: I know I'm getting a little spoken word with all 553 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 1: this nature talk. I think what I need is some 554 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: fresh air and some perspective. So let's take this outside 555 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: and hey, I know a good spot. Being outside has 556 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,560 Speaker 1: always been a really important part of my life, maybe 557 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,280 Speaker 1: especially because I grew up in the city, but my 558 00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 1: mom would take us camping, me and my little friends, 559 00:32:51,360 --> 00:32:56,840 Speaker 1: bike trips and hiking trips. I'm thinking about which path 560 00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: I'm going to take to get to my hilltop. I 561 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,960 Speaker 1: think I take a shorter one today just for time. 562 00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: All right, I'm approaching my favorite part of my morning 563 00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: hike for the mornings when I really want to push myself. 564 00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 1: I'm about to climb a hill. And it's like, you know, 565 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 1: I joke about people in l A calling everything a hike. 566 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 1: This is a hike. I'm going off roads, scrambling up dirt. 567 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:38,240 Speaker 1: Let's climbing this hill. All right. I have a little 568 00:33:38,280 --> 00:33:45,640 Speaker 1: bit more to go, but let's keep walking. We talked 569 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: a lot in this show about investing in relationships. Is 570 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,320 Speaker 1: one about pillars to citizen is to invest in relationships 571 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:55,080 Speaker 1: with yourself, with others, and with the planet around you. 572 00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:57,880 Speaker 1: And we've evolved that if you've been listening to us 573 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,440 Speaker 1: from the very beginning, we didn't say not about the 574 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: planet or the environment, which is said invest in relationships, 575 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: but the planet part is critical. Very recently the summer, 576 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: I got to return to nature on purpose with a 577 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,279 Speaker 1: film crew to make this TV show for PBS called 578 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 1: America Outdoors with Barritune Day Thirsty. That's me. And what 579 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:28,440 Speaker 1: I got most out of the America Outdoors experience is 580 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: I got to spend time with three different indigenous communities, 581 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:38,120 Speaker 1: the Shashawani Bannock in Idaho, the salmon people. We were 582 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: supposed to do a traditional salmon hunt, and we couldn't 583 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 1: because the climate change, because the salmon has been cooked 584 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,840 Speaker 1: by their habitat, by their river. The ones that could 585 00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,560 Speaker 1: make it, we're so weak that the tribe decided to 586 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 1: leave them be. And they explain their relationship to the salmon. 587 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,800 Speaker 1: They said, we call him brother salmon, we say father tree. 588 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:10,120 Speaker 1: These are all relations of our and they have taken 589 00:35:10,120 --> 00:35:13,720 Speaker 1: care of us. They have provided for us for thousands 590 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: of years, so it's our turn to take care of them. 591 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 1: I think that Shoshani Bannock would consider in the salmon citizens. 592 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:26,399 Speaker 1: I think that salmon citizens for them, and so they're 593 00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: doing it in return. There's a reciprocity involved. And I'm 594 00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: so grateful that Jamie is here to remind us of 595 00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:40,840 Speaker 1: our youngest guests ever by far spit in some wisdom 596 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,200 Speaker 1: that and we were part of all of this, not 597 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: apart from it. I'm really hoping the wind isn't ruining 598 00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:55,960 Speaker 1: this little soliloquy, and if it is, I'm gonna roll 599 00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,919 Speaker 1: with it, because the wind is just trying to drive 600 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: home my point because we're sharing this because I wouldn't 601 00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,879 Speaker 1: be thinking this if I wasn't here feeling these things. 602 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:09,239 Speaker 1: All right, this is a fun part. I'm going to 603 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: take you down the hill with me. My descent, I 604 00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,480 Speaker 1: used to kind of jog down because it helped me 605 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: feel fit active person. Next week, we take a step 606 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 1: into a town corrupted by misinformation and disinformation, and I 607 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,080 Speaker 1: get to help sow the seeds of chaos. Play let's 608 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:38,120 Speaker 1: destroy society. Congratulations, you're hired. Welcome to your first day 609 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 1: as our new chief disinformation officer. Let's get started. Trust me, 610 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: it's for the greater good. I can't wait for you 611 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,480 Speaker 1: to hear this next one. Now, you know, I can't 612 00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,680 Speaker 1: have some young activist on the show and not give 613 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: you some actions to do. So here's the actions. Jamie 614 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: helped us conceive of technology in a different, more elemental way. 615 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 1: So the first thing I want you to do is 616 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 1: ask yourself some questions. When you think of technology, what 617 00:37:09,120 --> 00:37:12,919 Speaker 1: do you think of when you think of nature? What 618 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,600 Speaker 1: do you think of and do you ever think of 619 00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:20,160 Speaker 1: the same things? And answer to both questions. Next, let's 620 00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,480 Speaker 1: get more informed about climate threats and opportunities for better 621 00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: climate news, which we all need. Visit covering climate Now 622 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,640 Speaker 1: dot org is really good on social media. Follow groups 623 00:37:32,680 --> 00:37:35,760 Speaker 1: like this is Zero Hour and Sunrise Movement. For something 624 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:40,240 Speaker 1: more local, search online for climate change or climate action. 625 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:43,960 Speaker 1: Then add the name of your neighborhood, your town, your region. Oh, 626 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,479 Speaker 1: and you've got to read. This book is called All 627 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:51,360 Speaker 1: We Can Save by doctors Jana, Elizabeth Johnson and Katherine Wilkerson. 628 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:55,319 Speaker 1: It's an anthology of essays by women representing all the 629 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:59,439 Speaker 1: people we've ignored on climate and it's filled with solutions 630 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,000 Speaker 1: and in ration and realness. You can find this book 631 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: in the Shows Online bookshop. Finally, let's do some kind 632 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:12,480 Speaker 1: of collective climate action. Those local online searches they could 633 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,920 Speaker 1: lead you to businesses or groups you can support. I 634 00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:18,040 Speaker 1: recommend the Citizens Climate Lobby as a place to start. 635 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 1: Now talk about those types of things. Are you composting? 636 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 1: Are you trying to understand where your energy comes from? 637 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 1: Share that journey online. Let's use tech to make climate 638 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:33,920 Speaker 1: action mainstream. As usual, I shared a lot, So the 639 00:38:33,920 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: good news is we wrote it all down for you. 640 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,239 Speaker 1: Just check out the show notes for this episode in 641 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,440 Speaker 1: your podcast app, or visit us at how to citizen 642 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,560 Speaker 1: dot com. You can follow us on Instagram at how 643 00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:48,680 Speaker 1: to Citizen. Please tag us in your post about your 644 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: climate and tech journey and use the hashtag how to Citizen. 645 00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: How to Citizen with Barrittunday is a production of I 646 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:01,520 Speaker 1: Heart Radio Podcasts and Dustl Productions. Our executive producers are 647 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 1: me Baryton Day Thurston, Elizabeth Stewart and Misha Yusa. Our 648 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,880 Speaker 1: senior producer is Tamika Adams. Our producer is Ali Kilts, 649 00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,160 Speaker 1: and our assistant producer Sam Paulson. Stephanie Cohne is our editor. 650 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,759 Speaker 1: Valentino Rivera is our senior engineer, and Matthew Laie as 651 00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:20,800 Speaker 1: our apprentice. Additional production help from rwin Knicks, Original music 652 00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: by Andrew Eapen with additional original music for season three 653 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:28,320 Speaker 1: from Andrew Clawson. This episode was produced and sound designed 654 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,200 Speaker 1: by Tamika Adams. Special thanks to Joel Smith from My 655 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,840 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Rachel Garcia at dust Light Production.