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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology? With

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Speaker 1: tech Stuff from how stuff works dot com. Hello, everyone,

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Speaker 1: welcome to tech stuff. My name is Chris Poulette, and

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Speaker 1: I am an editor at how stuff works dot com.

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Speaker 1: Sitting across from me as he typically does, and because

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Speaker 1: I can't get rid of him and the senior writer,

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Speaker 1: Jonathan Strickland, I working here no more. That's a colorful

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Speaker 1: introduction to our topic. Yeah, we're gonna talk about what's

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Speaker 1: next for Apple, what's coming up for Apple now that

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Speaker 1: Steve Jobs has resigned. And for those of you who

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Speaker 1: somehow managed to avoid the news on August twenty, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know how you managed to do it. But

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Speaker 1: then on augustn Steve Jobs sent a letter to the

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Speaker 1: Apple's Board of Directors handing in his resignation as see

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Speaker 1: EO of Apple, although he did suggest or request that

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Speaker 1: he'd be allowed to remain chairman of the board. And

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Speaker 1: he also suggested that the CEOO, the Chief Operating Officer,

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Speaker 1: Tim Cook, be named the new CEO of Apple and

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Speaker 1: uh and the board took both of those actions. So

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Speaker 1: and yeah, so Jobs is still he's still with Apple.

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Speaker 1: The way that the News covered this, it sounded like

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Speaker 1: Jobs had not only left Apple, but that he was

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Speaker 1: gone forever, and that it was almost like eulogies were

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Speaker 1: being written. And as far as we know, as far

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Speaker 1: as we know, the reason for Jobs stepping down he

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Speaker 1: said he was no longer able to fulfill his duties

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Speaker 1: as CEO, which uh he actually I can read the

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Speaker 1: verbatim the way that he worded this. I have always said,

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Speaker 1: if there ever came a day when I could no

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Speaker 1: longer meet my duties and expectations as Apple's chief executive,

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Speaker 1: I would be the first to let you know. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: that day has come. I hereby resigned as chief executive

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Speaker 1: of Apple. So the assumption is that Steve jobs health

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Speaker 1: has taken such a poor turn that he just feels

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Speaker 1: that it is not he's not capable of fulfilling that role,

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Speaker 1: and he has been on medical leave or he was

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Speaker 1: on medical leave since January and and so yeah. But

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Speaker 1: the thing is, though, that that is speculation. He did

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Speaker 1: not directly say that. I mean, it's you could say that,

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Speaker 1: you could say it's a safe bet, but it's not

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Speaker 1: necessarily the whole story and we should not jump to conclusions.

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Speaker 1: And before we go any further, and we have done

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Speaker 1: an episode about Steve Jobs and his work at Apple.

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Speaker 1: It was an earlier episode. We actually did an episode

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Speaker 1: about Steve Jobs, and we did an episode about Bill Gates.

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Speaker 1: Because these two men were both visionary, They were both

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Speaker 1: leaders in in the personal computer revolution. Yeah, they both

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Speaker 1: were dropouts of college and they age, They both are

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Speaker 1: incredibly wealthy. They both have very strong personalities and very

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Speaker 1: specific ideas of where things need to be. Um, they

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Speaker 1: have a lot of similarities, there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: differences as well. Anyway, we did a podcast about Steve

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Speaker 1: Jobs back then that if you are really curious about

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Speaker 1: the man, I suggest you listen to. We're going to

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Speaker 1: cover some of that probably again in this conversation, because

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Speaker 1: it's necessary to really understand why people are reacting in

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Speaker 1: such a strong way to this news. And um, and

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Speaker 1: some of it, you could probably say, is to an

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Speaker 1: over emphasis on the importance of the news. Not to

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Speaker 1: belittle Steve Jobs or to say that his contributions haven't

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Speaker 1: been enormous to Apple's success. They clearly have been, but

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Speaker 1: to turn around and say Apple's doomed is a little reactionary.

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Speaker 1: I think I would go so far as to say

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Speaker 1: it might even be a lot reaction. I didn't want

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Speaker 1: to react too strongly to how reactionary it might be,

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Speaker 1: because then we have a positive feedback reactionary loop open.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure I think that the top is still spinning.

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Speaker 1: Let's check our inception. Yes, okay, so we're still a

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Speaker 1: dream within a dream at least one level down. Um,

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Speaker 1: did you hear what Eric Schmitt recently said about Steve Jobs? Yes?

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Speaker 1: This is this is pretty phenomenal. Alright, so Eric Schmitt,

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Speaker 1: former CEO of Google, still with Google. So here's what

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Speaker 1: he said. Uh that you probably thought you heard but

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Speaker 1: didn't realize you had not right, it's really early. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, Chris, at this point it's just us. See

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Speaker 1: Jonathan's talking. Just agree with what he says. It's easier.

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Speaker 1: Apparently there's a drinking game. So down right, congratulations. I

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Speaker 1: hope you guys are being safe out there. Um. No,

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Speaker 1: Eric Schmitt said recently that Steve Jobs was probably the

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Speaker 1: best CEO in fifty or a hundred years, and I

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Speaker 1: really hadn't heard that. It's you know, that's that's huge praise.

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Speaker 1: And you've got to remember Google and Apple do not

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Speaker 1: have necessarily the most friendly of relationships with one another.

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Speaker 1: They used to be. Yeah, we used to be on

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Speaker 1: the board of directors for Apple as well as the

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Speaker 1: board of directors for Google. He was on both at

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Speaker 1: the same time, and in fact stepped down from Apple

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Speaker 1: because of some worries that this was sort of a

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Speaker 1: collusion or perhaps monopolization of of two fields or really

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Speaker 1: one field, just two different approaches to it. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that that's that's pretty high praise. I mean, there have

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Speaker 1: been a lot of really impressive CEOs of all kinds

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Speaker 1: of companies, not just tech companies, but I mean just

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Speaker 1: the you know, the people who might be considered uh,

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Speaker 1: Steve Jobs as peers out there, Larry Ellison and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean just famous tech personality and not just tech either,

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Speaker 1: because the thing about Jobs is that, you know, Jobs

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Speaker 1: definitely left his mark on Apple. I mean Apple, Apple's

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Speaker 1: culture and Apple's products are the way they are in

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Speaker 1: large part due to Steve Jobs. Not to say that

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Speaker 1: the other people at Apple haven't made enormous contributions, fundamental

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Speaker 1: contributions to the company's success. They have, but Steve Jobs

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Speaker 1: is he It's hard to imagine Apple as it is

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Speaker 1: today without Steve Jobs in that picture, because he and

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Speaker 1: the company are almost synonymous. And so I would compare

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Speaker 1: Steve Jobs with some other famous leaders who also the

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Speaker 1: company in some cases literally was synonymous, for example, Walt Disney,

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Speaker 1: because Walt Disney had a reputation for having a very

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Speaker 1: clear vision of where he wanted his company to go

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Speaker 1: and what he wanted to accomplish, and he also had

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Speaker 1: a reputation for not wanting to compromise on that vision,

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Speaker 1: to do whatever it takes to make that vision a reality,

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Speaker 1: and he was had a reputation for being a taskmaster.

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Speaker 1: That working for Disney was incredibly rewarding professionally, but it

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Speaker 1: was also really rough. I mean it was it meant

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Speaker 1: that you were working harder than you had ever worked before,

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Speaker 1: and you were expected to contribute that level all the time. Well,

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Speaker 1: a lot can be said about Steve Jobs that is

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Speaker 1: almost identical to that, right So, and in fact, you know,

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Speaker 1: you even have Jobs as a relationship with Disney goes

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Speaker 1: even further because Jobs sits on the board for Disney

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Speaker 1: and also was the head of Pixar, So you know

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Speaker 1: Pixar is also now a Disney company. So the relationship

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Speaker 1: goes beyond just the superficial where you can say Disney

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Speaker 1: and Jobs are like this because of I mean, the

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Speaker 1: two merged in a way which is, you know interesting.

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Speaker 1: I think that Jobs is um becoming synonymous with Apple

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Speaker 1: is in part to two things which are oddly um

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Speaker 1: at odds with one another. Um, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: he co founded the company and then he was essentially

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Speaker 1: forced out of the company. Yeah, that's that's we should

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Speaker 1: probably address that a little bit. Um. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: the he his strong personality hasn't always served him well, well,

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Speaker 1: it hasn't made the best impression on other very influential people.

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Speaker 1: So so back in the early days of Apple, and

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Speaker 1: we're talking the mid eighties here, uh, Steve Jobs had

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Speaker 1: his his behavior. He he clearly was a genius. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it's already obvious that he was a genius, that the

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Speaker 1: man was a visionary. But he also had a very uh, well,

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Speaker 1: what's the best word to use, strong personality, you'll say,

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Speaker 1: and and again a desire to attain a vision without compromise,

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Speaker 1: which you know that can rub some people the way.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, his inexperience with business lead the Apple's

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Speaker 1: board of directors to choose a different person to act

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Speaker 1: as president and CEO, and that person was John Scully. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Scully actually came from a completely different field. Yes, he

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Speaker 1: came from pepsi Um and uh, a lot of people didn't.

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Speaker 1: I didn't like that because they thought, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: this is a completely different change, and you know it's

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Speaker 1: it's not somebody who is intimately tech and he didn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily share the vision that that Apple's founders had when

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Speaker 1: they created the company. So then you're asking, well, it

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Speaker 1: can you even call Apple the same company that it

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Speaker 1: was when it started, because now you've got, uh, someone

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Speaker 1: who's coming from this from a totally different angle in charge.

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Speaker 1: And uh, eventually Jobs left Apple. You know, you could

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Speaker 1: argue whether or not Apple fired him or Jobs resigned.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of essentially Scully kept pushing, pushing Jobs further

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Speaker 1: and further to the edge of the company. I think

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Speaker 1: they ran them off. Yeah. Yeah, essentially it's almost like

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Speaker 1: if I'm nasty enough, they'll go away sort of thing. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's oversimplifying it, but essentially that's what's happened. And then

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Speaker 1: so Jobs leaves the company, and then he goes off

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Speaker 1: and does his own thing. Meanwhile, Scully's tenure at Apple

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Speaker 1: is not the best thing for that company. It's the

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Speaker 1: company starts to have some serious issues over the next decade. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it had. It had supply problems. UM. They were known

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Speaker 1: for creating multiple computers with hard to Basically we're using

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Speaker 1: a numbering system. At that point, UM they had and

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Speaker 1: and the numbering system. It wasn't clear necessarily what computer

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Speaker 1: was what UM. The differences between the pro and consumer

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Speaker 1: computers was confusing, and they and Scully started to do

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Speaker 1: something that Jobs absolutely refused to do. Well, there was

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Speaker 1: one more thing before I was going to add that

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Speaker 1: simply that they were also known for quality problems, which

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Speaker 1: is not something that a lot of people associate with

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Speaker 1: Apple in two thousand eleven, but at the time there

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Speaker 1: were no Yeah, they were known for releasing lemons, complete lines.

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Speaker 1: You know the UM you know this particular model number

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Speaker 1: five thirty stinks. Don't ever buy this computer because it's

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Speaker 1: just a terrible, terrible design. Well, the the other thing

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Speaker 1: that Scully did that Jobs definitely did not approve of

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Speaker 1: was essentially approving clones of Apple devices other manufacturers to

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Speaker 1: be able to use um TO to incorporate Apple's technology

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Speaker 1: into into their own machines. That's not something Jobs was

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Speaker 1: ever interested in. And UH. It was what enabled Windows

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Speaker 1: to become as big as it was was IBM's decision

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Speaker 1: to allow clones of its machines, so it had there

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Speaker 1: was precedence for this move, but it ended up not

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Speaker 1: being the right idea for Apple. And in nine the

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Speaker 1: company Apple, the company decided to purchase a company called Next,

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Speaker 1: which was Steve Jobs's company. It was a company that

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Speaker 1: was dedicated to creating uh new computer systems specifically for

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Speaker 1: educational purposes, not just educational purposes, but that was like

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Speaker 1: the main focus. Yeah, I was aimed at that market. Now,

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Speaker 1: there were other competitors that I mean basically people analysts

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Speaker 1: were saying at the time that Apple was doomed. Um.

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Speaker 1: You know, Michael Dell actually was famous in his proclamation

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Speaker 1: that Apple should be uh sold off and the proceeds

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Speaker 1: be redistributed to its stockholders because it was in such

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Speaker 1: bad shape. Um. Wired magazine had a famous cover and

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Speaker 1: UH in which they were talking about Apple's problems and

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Speaker 1: what should be done, if anything, to save the company,

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Speaker 1: if anything could save the company, and um, it was

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Speaker 1: pretty widely own and they had an operating system that

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Speaker 1: was languishing the next version of its operating sy Some

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Speaker 1: people kept saying, when is this thing coming out? It

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Speaker 1: doesn't look like it's ever coming out, and they said,

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Speaker 1: well they're There are rumors going around that Apple was

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Speaker 1: looking to buy Next or some other companies, one of

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Speaker 1: which was buh B as in b operated Um had

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Speaker 1: a computer called the b Box, which was a was

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Speaker 1: pretty innovative for its time and at four processors and

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Speaker 1: was led by a former Apple executive named Jean Luis Gassa,

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Speaker 1: people thought it was down to be versus Next, or

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Speaker 1: And Apple decided to acquire Next outright, and they sort

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Speaker 1: of acquired Steve Jobs along with it. A lot of

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Speaker 1: people thought that Apple was more interested in Steve than

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Speaker 1: was the Next operating system, although Next operating System did

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Speaker 1: play a fundamental role in what would become the new

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Speaker 1: version of mac OS. But yes, so Steve Jobs comes

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Speaker 1: back to Apple and before too long becomes the new

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Speaker 1: president and CEO of Apple, and at that point Jobs

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Speaker 1: had made during his tenure. He completely remained Apple, I

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Speaker 1: would go so far as to see and it took

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Speaker 1: some years before Apple really started to see he some

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Speaker 1: big success because at this point, really, and you could

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Speaker 1: argue still today, Mac max just consisted of a very

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Speaker 1: tiny portion of the personal computer market. They just really

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Speaker 1: didn't make a huge dent. It was mainly PCs, so

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Speaker 1: Windows based machines, and then there was a tiny slice

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Speaker 1: of Apple products. But also, I mean, just in just

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Speaker 1: to put it in perspective, at that point, Windows was out,

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Speaker 1: stride in making inroads to the desktop in businesses all

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Speaker 1: around the world. Yeah, it was essentially the business operating system.

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Speaker 1: It was much more polished than Windows three point x um,

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Speaker 1: much more polished it was. It was a huge leap

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Speaker 1: forward for Windows. So I mean Apple had that was

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Speaker 1: the wrong time, the exact wrong time for Apple to

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Speaker 1: be stinking it up. So job starts making changes. But

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Speaker 1: it's not really until about two thousand one that the

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Speaker 1: next huge thing happens that really pushes Apple forward, and

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Speaker 1: that's the introduction of the iPod and MP three players

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Speaker 1: existed before the iPod came out. It's not that the

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Speaker 1: iPod was a new idea, but the iPod had an

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Speaker 1: elegant design compared to the other MP three players that

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Speaker 1: were out on the market at that time. And Steve

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Speaker 1: Jobs is, uh, he's many things. He's a visionary, he's

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Speaker 1: a powerful leader, but he's also incredibly um good at

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Speaker 1: marketing and and getting a message across and getting you

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Speaker 1: to believe then buy into that message. You could walk

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Speaker 1: into an Apple keynote completely skeptical and walk out thinking

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Speaker 1: I gotta get to an Apple store. Now, well, there

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Speaker 1: weren't any Apple stores in two thousands, and an Apple

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Speaker 1: didn't make anything other than computers and operating systems. UM.

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Speaker 1: Actually it did make other software, which it spun off,

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Speaker 1: actually spun off a division of itself called Claris, which

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Speaker 1: made all kinds of other software. I mean, they were

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Speaker 1: into They even had their own work suite UM, and

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Speaker 1: they had some other stuff they did. They did have

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Speaker 1: the Newton, which was a p d A and the

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Speaker 1: the Image, which wasn't an educational device that people kind

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Speaker 1: of wish they still made for a while. I just

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Speaker 1: think of the Simpsons with the Newton. Yeah, make a note,

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Speaker 1: Beat up Martin, eat up Martha. But yeah. Handwriting recognition

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Speaker 1: was well known for noting, um, that will get somebody

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Speaker 1: who really loves their Newton, who still uses their Newton?

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Speaker 1: Who who can will? Even the creators of the Newton

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Speaker 1: admit that the handwriting software was not quite ready it was.

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Speaker 1: That was one of those things where the company was

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Speaker 1: pushing for it before the the hardware and software were

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Speaker 1: fully baked Apple, fully baked pie Pie. So so, Steve

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Speaker 1: Jobs introduced a new scheme in which they would create

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Speaker 1: a consumer line of portables and desktops, and a and

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Speaker 1: an educational line which was sort of off to the side,

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Speaker 1: and then the pro line of of portables and desktops.

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Speaker 1: Then you had the iPod, and then in two thousand

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Speaker 1: seven you had the iPhone, and in two thousand ten

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Speaker 1: the iPad. In fact, way back when the iPod was

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Speaker 1: coming out, Jobs had already predicted something that has come true,

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Speaker 1: which is that the digital lifestyle would be one where

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Speaker 1: we would have a lot of digital devices and the

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Speaker 1: personal computer would become more of a synchronous zation hub

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Speaker 1: and less of a of a focus on your computing time. Essentially,

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Speaker 1: he predicted the post PC era. And you could argue,

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Speaker 1: and we have argued, that we are in a post

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Speaker 1: PC era. It's not that the PC has gone away.

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Speaker 1: It's not that it's not important. It's just that we

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Speaker 1: are using other devices to interact with the Internet and

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Speaker 1: to do just basic computing that have nothing that that

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Speaker 1: do not resemble desktops or laptops. It's more we get

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Speaker 1: our information from more places than just our PC, right,

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Speaker 1: and more frequently than we do with our PCs in general.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I sit in front of a PCL day,

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Speaker 1: so I get a lot of my information from my PC.

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Speaker 1: But otherwise I no longer feel like, you know, I

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Speaker 1: still carry that experience with me when I walk away

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Speaker 1: from the PC because I have a smartphone. And so, yeah,

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Speaker 1: what Jobs was saying has come true. Uh he also

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Speaker 1: uh he also was really good again at at selling

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Speaker 1: these ideas like like the iPad AD. I was famously

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Speaker 1: skeptical about how the iPad would do in the market

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Speaker 1: because I was thinking of the old tablet computers, and

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Speaker 1: tablet computers have been around for a while and they

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Speaker 1: just never took off the consumer market, and I was thinking,

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Speaker 1: how the heck is Jobs going to convince people that

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Speaker 1: they need a device that historically no one has wanted,

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Speaker 1: right And I know I'm exaggerating by saying no one,

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Speaker 1: but for the sake of argument, I recently had a

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Speaker 1: conversation with Wilson Tang from c NET and he gave

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Speaker 1: me his perspective of what he thought one day when

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Speaker 1: it was after the iPad had been announced, but before

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Speaker 1: he had he had purchased one, and it really makes

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Speaker 1: a lot of sense. He said. He was on the

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Speaker 1: subway in New York and he was looking around and

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Speaker 1: he saw that someone was reading a book, and someone

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Speaker 1: else was reading a newspaper, and someone was playing a

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Speaker 1: game on a device, and someone's listening to an MP

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Speaker 1: three player. And they thought, wait a minute, that's what

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Speaker 1: this is for. That's what this iPad is for. It's not, ah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's not that it's taking it's creating a new

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Speaker 1: space or whatever, but it's it's it's almost like, it's

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Speaker 1: not that it's replacing smartphones. It's not that it's replacing

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Speaker 1: m P three players or video game controllers. It's that

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Speaker 1: it's doing all of these things at the same time,

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Speaker 1: and it's replacing paper. It's replacing books and newspapers in

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Speaker 1: the sense that you can then consume them on this

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Speaker 1: one device and you don't have a larger form factor

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Speaker 1: you have to deal with when you're done with the

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Speaker 1: whatever the thing is, whether it's a book or a newspaper,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to throw it away or file it

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Speaker 1: away or or you know, put it on a bookshelf.

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Speaker 1: You just you can get another file and look at that.

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Speaker 1: And when you think about in that perspective, uh, it

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Speaker 1: really that's exactly what Steve Jobs did. He showed that

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Speaker 1: this is how you could use this device and how

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Speaker 1: it would give you a lot more flexibility in the

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Speaker 1: way you consume media and play games and all of

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Speaker 1: these sort of ideas. And uh and I just did

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Speaker 1: not see that. I didn't see it until Jobs took

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Speaker 1: the stage and explained it to me. And that's one

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Speaker 1: of the things that you gotta argue about Jobs is

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Speaker 1: that he really is a visionary, when he really is

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Speaker 1: a kind of person who gets an idea and can

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Speaker 1: see it and the value in it before anyone else does.

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Speaker 1: And then he can, even more amazingly than that, convince

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Speaker 1: you to agree with his point of view. But you know,

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Speaker 1: the day before you never would have considered it the

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Speaker 1: day after. You can't imagine it any other way. It's

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Speaker 1: the reality distortion field. Yes, that often we'd call it

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Speaker 1: the reality distortion field. That you know, it's magical. I

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Speaker 1: think you're gonna love it. Right. One more thing too,

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Speaker 1: but one more thing that hasn't been around for ages,

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Speaker 1: but he was famous for leaving the most compelling, most

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Speaker 1: wow factor element out of a product release until the

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Speaker 1: very last minute when he was on stage. One more thing.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like the Columbo One more thing. It's

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Speaker 1: when he drops the hammer and you and you get

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Speaker 1: that like he figured it out. He knew the game

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Speaker 1: before you even knew you were playing. It's the kicker. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's um. That's the thing too. Because I would not

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Speaker 1: necessarily have imagined that people would tune in to a

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Speaker 1: computer companies product announcements for entertainment. Yes, you have. You

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Speaker 1: have people taking time off of work to log into

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Speaker 1: a systems to watch either to watch the keynote live

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Speaker 1: or to watch some tech journalists covering the keynote live.

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Speaker 1: And you know, you have live blogs that blog line

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Speaker 1: by line what's being said on stage, and people are

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Speaker 1: just furiously refreshing their pages to see what the next

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Speaker 1: thing is that is. I mean, how many other companies

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Speaker 1: have that Google? Maybe? Well, they and and this is

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Speaker 1: one of those things that other companies have realized that

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Speaker 1: Apple was doing well with Steve Jobs's help. Um, and

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Speaker 1: people like Google have done that with and and more

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Speaker 1: and more. You see tech news outlets like see net

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Speaker 1: going to Google I oh and talking about the next

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Speaker 1: version of Android and telling you what the new thing is. Um.

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Speaker 1: We saw it somewhat with Palm with the web os

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Speaker 1: a little bit. It didn't really pan out well for them.

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Speaker 1: But but you have to have someone when you're doing this.

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Speaker 1: You have to have someone who's charismatic. And Steve Jobs

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Speaker 1: showed the tech industry, look, you guys, we can make

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Speaker 1: products that make people sit up and take notice. You

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Speaker 1: just got to show them the right way, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he can. You can do this. You can. You can

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Speaker 1: introduce a totally revolutionary product that no one had any

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Speaker 1: desire for the day before it. I had no knowledge

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Speaker 1: of it, and just you can create the market for that. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: You could put that in front of somebody and not

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Speaker 1: say anything, and that person may find it compelling or

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Speaker 1: they may just walk away. But if you show them

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Speaker 1: why it's compelling, then you've got them. You hooked them,

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Speaker 1: and and you gotta agree. I mean, the iPad sales

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Speaker 1: a loan show that that's true. But I wanted to

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Speaker 1: talk a little bit about Steve's personal style a little bit.

402
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Speaker 1: Not not the way he dressed Turtle, the mock turtle

403
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Speaker 1: neck and genus. No, No, not that I wanted to

404
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Speaker 1: talk about sort of. Steve Jobs has a reputation for

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Speaker 1: being very outspoken and very critical, to the point where

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Speaker 1: some people would call it like just devastating criticism that

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Speaker 1: you know, he did not hold back, and he wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: He wouldn't. It wouldn't just be a criticism of your work.

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Speaker 1: It would He would direct insults to people who worked

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Speaker 1: for him, And there's been a lot of talk about

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Speaker 1: that about how he was kind of a a super

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Speaker 1: tough boss. But I've actually read some some interesting reports

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Speaker 1: that said that really his reasoning for that wasn't to

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Speaker 1: convince people to do things his way. He wasn't setting

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Speaker 1: out to belittle someone in order to get them to

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Speaker 1: become a yes man, right, because that's the that's the

417
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Speaker 1: popular view is that Steve Jobs has an iron will

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Speaker 1: and this is why it has to be done this way. Know,

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Speaker 1: what he was doing was he was testing people, and

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Speaker 1: he would test them by two ways. One he would

421
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Speaker 1: try and say that their ideas had no merit in

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Speaker 1: an in an attempt to have them defend those ideas.

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Speaker 1: And if the person could defend his or her idea

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Speaker 1: passionately and intelligently, then Steve Jobs would say, you know this,

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Speaker 1: this employee really believes in this, and this is something

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Speaker 1: I need to pay attention to and you know. So

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Speaker 1: it was kind of a way of separating really interesting

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Speaker 1: ideas that had real merit out from the noise. So

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Speaker 1: it was separating the signal from the noise in that sense.

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Speaker 1: It's just doing it in a really abrasive way. And

431
00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,520
Speaker 1: the other thing that he was testing was by telling

432
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: uh an engineer that this is not the best you

433
00:25:55,119 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: can do. You're reinforcing a kind of insecurity that runs

434
00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 1: through most engineers, which is I could have made something

435
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: better than this if I had really tried. You're reinforcing

436
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 1: that idea. And so then the engineer goes back and

437
00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,840
Speaker 1: even if they really did put forth their full effort before,

438
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: somehow they scrape down and they get a little bit

439
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 1: more and they push themselves even harder. Now, the danger

440
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: of this, of course, is that you can burn out

441
00:26:20,119 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: people pretty quickly. It's it's tough to be in that environment.

442
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: And in fact, there are a lot of Apple employees

443
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: who said, you know, I did the best work of

444
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 1: my life for Steve Jobs, but you know, after a while,

445
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: that just takes a psychological toll, and Steve Jobs wouldn't.

446
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,639
Speaker 1: It's not that he would never praise people. He would

447
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: heap praise on people for a good job, but then

448
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,359
Speaker 1: that same person might get chewed out the next day

449
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:47,399
Speaker 1: if Steve Jobs sees something that he thought was not

450
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: up to the right standard. So you would have this

451
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: day where you don't when you go into work, you

452
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:55,880
Speaker 1: don't know if you're gonna get, you know, carried around

453
00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,400
Speaker 1: the office on everyone's shoulders are thrown out into the

454
00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: parking lot and just you had no way of knowing.

455
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,480
Speaker 1: And that is a very stressful environment. It was also

456
00:27:04,480 --> 00:27:06,879
Speaker 1: an incredibly productive environment because we saw some of the

457
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: most amazing products come out of Apple because of this culture.

458
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: It's just I know that I personally would not want

459
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 1: to work in a place with that culture. It would

460
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,840
Speaker 1: I I wouldn't last. I don't have that kind of Yeah,

461
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,160
Speaker 1: I don't have that kind of personality. It wouldn't I would,

462
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,400
Speaker 1: I would crumble. And maybe that just means that that's

463
00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,880
Speaker 1: just proof that I don't fit there, right, it's not.

464
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,320
Speaker 1: And that's not saying that I'm a bad person or

465
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,560
Speaker 1: that Apple is a bad company. It's just a bad fit.

466
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,000
Speaker 1: And so now there's the question of with Jobs resigning,

467
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:40,800
Speaker 1: is that culture still going to be there. Is there

468
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: still going to be someone testing employees and pushing them harder?

469
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:48,040
Speaker 1: And will it be done the same way or will

470
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: it Will they try a different approach? Will will Tim

471
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: Cook who will now be the CEO, Will he find

472
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 1: a different way to encourage employees than Steve Jobs. Now

473
00:27:57,480 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: we should say that Tim Cook also has a reputation

474
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:03,199
Speaker 1: for having a very specific approach to things. He's not

475
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 1: known as a visionary, but he is known as someone

476
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: who can take a system and make it far more

477
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: efficient and manageable. He's a great manager. In fact, he's

478
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,800
Speaker 1: the reason why Apple has a lot of deals with

479
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:21,479
Speaker 1: various other companies like It's. It's the relationships formed between

480
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:24,760
Speaker 1: Apple and these companies those were overseen by Tim Cook.

481
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,480
Speaker 1: And he was just really good at getting that stuff

482
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 1: to work. He can run a company very well, but

483
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: he does not have a reputation for being a risk

484
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: taker like Steve Jobs was and a visionary like Steve

485
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,080
Speaker 1: Jobs was. So that's where the question of well, now

486
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: that Steve Jobs is gone, does this mean that Apple

487
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,280
Speaker 1: is going to like? Will Apple's future mean that we'll

488
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: still get good products? We just won't get this is

489
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: going to change everything type products because the iPhone was

490
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 1: billed as the device that would change everything, and then

491
00:28:58,040 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: a way it kind of did, at least in the

492
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,560
Speaker 1: smartphone market because before the iPhone there was no real

493
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: consumer smartphone out there. Well, Apple is no longer Apple Computer.

494
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: It is Apple Incorporated at this point, and I think

495
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 1: that shows the company's intended direction. I think it's also

496
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: important to note um that Apple is not Steve Jobs.

497
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 1: If it were Steve by himself, he would never have

498
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 1: been able to take Apple where it is now. Yeah,

499
00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 1: and it because it would be a one person operation.

500
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,960
Speaker 1: And again because Steve Jobs use this way to challenge

501
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: people and to get them to defend their ideas and

502
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,719
Speaker 1: then incorporate those ideas. You know, you could say that yes,

503
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:44,000
Speaker 1: Steve Jobs doesn't wanna, doesn't want to to end up

504
00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: giving in or giving giving way to anyone else. But

505
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: the truth is he just wanted to make sure the

506
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: best ideas were incorporated. And if it had just been

507
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: his own ideas, it would be a very different company today.

508
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 1: In fact, it might not even exist today. He might

509
00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:02,360
Speaker 1: not have been able to to recover from the situation

510
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:06,520
Speaker 1: Apple was in when he came on as CEO. But yeah,

511
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 1: they're they're I mean, the company wouldn't be where it

512
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:14,440
Speaker 1: is today without people like Tim Cook. But people like

513
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: Jonathan I've yes, who is a brilliant designer. He's the

514
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 1: fellow who really gives Apple products the look that they have. Yeah,

515
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: I mean he was. He was behind some of the

516
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: company's most iconic UH devices, like the original iMac, like

517
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: the iPod um, and many many other devices in those lines.

518
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: And you know the that the design factor. I mean,

519
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: these are the things that Apple's UH opponents complain about. Oh,

520
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,760
Speaker 1: they're just interested in having the thing that looks cool.

521
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: Well there's That's part of Apple's appeal is that it

522
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: does look cool. It's part of very important, it's part

523
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,400
Speaker 1: of why Apple is claud its way back in the

524
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: Market's part of why Apples competitors are now concerned about

525
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: design um and jobs also had a reputation of being

526
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 1: very specific, like if something was even just a hair off,

527
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: he would jump on that and say, this is not right,

528
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: we have to fix it. So, you know, those people

529
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: for the moment are still there. And I don't think

530
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,080
Speaker 1: there's anything you know, if you're an Apple fan, I

531
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:28,600
Speaker 1: don't think there's anything for you to worry about in

532
00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: the immediate future. Well, yeah, I think for the next

533
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: few years. The product plans are made. Yes, yeah, for

534
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:37,640
Speaker 1: at least three to five years. I mean, the Apple's

535
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: got its product plans laid out. It's it's not like

536
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 1: these companies are just a few months ahead of whenever

537
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 1: they announced something. You've got to know that when something

538
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: is being announced that chances are there's at least two

539
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,800
Speaker 1: generations of that device in some form of uh production

540
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 1: or planning at at the time when the one's launching.

541
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: So when we see the iPhone five launch, iPhone six

542
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: and seven are at least in a good planning stage

543
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: or being lost somewhere. Yeah, I can't believe twice that's happened.

544
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,240
Speaker 1: Now we're recording this just after the news broke. If

545
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,600
Speaker 1: you don't remember the iPhone four, there's a prototype iPhone

546
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: four that got lost or quote unquote loss. So it

547
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: may have been left in a bar and may have

548
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: found itself freed from someone's pocket. The details are not

549
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,880
Speaker 1: entirely clear. What is known is that, of course, the

550
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 1: person who found it then sold the iPhone to a

551
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 1: online news source that I'm not even gonna name because

552
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: I'm so sick of them anyway, But anyway, so I

553
00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 1: think of that as a very unethical thing and I'm

554
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: going to leave it at that. So at anyway, you

555
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,120
Speaker 1: hear this story and you're like, wow, that's terrible control

556
00:32:53,200 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: of your products. And then it happened again. Yeah, But

557
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: we don't know right now as the recording of this

558
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: podcast the nature of the device that was lost. We

559
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 1: know it was a prototype, or at least it was

560
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: an early build of a device, but we don't know

561
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: if it's an iPhone five or maybe like the iPhone four.

562
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 1: S Now, we don't know what the yes, so we

563
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:17,880
Speaker 1: don't as of the recording of this podcast, we're not

564
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,360
Speaker 1: sure exactly what it is. But it is weird that

565
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,800
Speaker 1: almost and it was almost a year like between the

566
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: two incidents, like it was a little more than a year,

567
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,800
Speaker 1: but not by much when they happened. This actually happened

568
00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: back in July, but it wasn't until what was it

569
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,120
Speaker 1: August thirty one when the news broke or September one?

570
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:36,600
Speaker 1: It was one of the Yeah, I was, I was

571
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: out of town, so it was hard for me to follow.

572
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:40,600
Speaker 1: In fact, what was funny was I was out of

573
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,160
Speaker 1: town and someone came up to me and they said,

574
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: what do you think about the whole iPhone bar thing?

575
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 1: And I said, why are you talking to me about that?

576
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: That happened a year and a half ago. I think, no, no,

577
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: it happened yesterday. Wait what again? Deja vu? But yeah,

578
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's what happens when Steve Jobs leaves.

579
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,680
Speaker 1: It's if he was there, it would you know, he

580
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:05,080
Speaker 1: probably would have said never again, and then he leaves,

581
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,400
Speaker 1: and then again happens except that that, except that it

582
00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,319
Speaker 1: happened in July, not in that part of the story

583
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:12,240
Speaker 1: kind of falls apart when you look at the facts.

584
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: But when the facts ever gotten in the way of

585
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 1: a good story for me exactly now, Um, I don't

586
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:21,400
Speaker 1: think there's any crisis in the near future for Apple. UM,

587
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 1: I think they're going to have to find a new spokesperson.

588
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: Tim Cook, while he is a an excellent uh choice

589
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,000
Speaker 1: for someone to run a company like Apple, is not

590
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,080
Speaker 1: the showman that Steve Jobs was. So they're gonna need

591
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: to find somebody else to carry on that part of things,

592
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:38,719
Speaker 1: and they're gonna have to Jonathan I have tends to

593
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: be a very quiet and private person, so although I've

594
00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: seen him incorporated in in presentations, though it's usually in

595
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:48,879
Speaker 1: a very like kind of a cute way. Like when

596
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 1: they launched the iPhone, he was one of the people

597
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: that Steve Jobs called and he was wandering the actual

598
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,319
Speaker 1: floor at the keynote and talking Tuesday. He was using

599
00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: a flip phone, I think, but Steve Jobs, of course

600
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 1: was on the iPhone. Right. Well, they're they're going to

601
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,359
Speaker 1: need to find the next visionary within the company, yes,

602
00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: or next visionaries to come up with the you know,

603
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 1: new products, new ideas. UM. But that's true of any company,

604
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 1: and they may very well have those people right then

605
00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 1: and right there, because again it's not like Steve Jobs

606
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 1: wakes up in the morning sketches out something on a

607
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,680
Speaker 1: piece of paper. And walks and make this happen and

608
00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:34,920
Speaker 1: then goes and eats an intern. That's not what happens. Um,

609
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 1: you know, there are teams of people working on vegetarians. Okay,

610
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:44,439
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, eats a tofu intern. Uh, it's that's that's

611
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: not the way this works. So there are people. There

612
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: are brilliant designers who are working at Apple. It's just that,

613
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 1: you know, those ideas were all sort of focused through

614
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 1: Steve Jobs, and we're wondering if without that out the lens,

615
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:59,279
Speaker 1: that is Steve Jobs, what's it gonna look like in

616
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: about five six years. I suspect that Apple will remain

617
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:06,920
Speaker 1: a strong player specifically in the mobile device market UM

618
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,840
Speaker 1: PCs and desks and laptops and everything or desktops and laptops.

619
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,280
Speaker 1: They'll they'll still be playing in that field as well.

620
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: But we are seeing that whole post PC era descend

621
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 1: on us. So I suspect we'll still see innovation from

622
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 1: those areas. Uh, they just might not be they might

623
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: not have the same feel to them as the Steve

624
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 1: Jobs era did, but that that doesn't mean that they

625
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: they won't be compelling or they won't be successes. And

626
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,920
Speaker 1: I think it's gonna be a long time before the

627
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,360
Speaker 1: post Steve Jobs era manifests itself. It might be it

628
00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 1: might be a decade before we even start seeing a

629
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: hint of that, because he really did leave a very

630
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: strong stamp on that company, and then as part of

631
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 1: the board of directors, that stamp will probably continue for

632
00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 1: a few years. Yes, he could still be quite the

633
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 1: visionary and help guide the company in his role as chairman.

634
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 1: He's just not going to be their data day and

635
00:37:01,239 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 1: so yeah, it may well be that hopefully what this

636
00:37:06,880 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 1: is the best possible choice for Steve Jobs for his

637
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: health and that he will he will have his health

638
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: will improve and he'll live a good long time and

639
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: have a healthy life. So that, you know, that's really

640
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: the most important thing when you really get down to it,

641
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:24,879
Speaker 1: is that, I mean, we don't wish him any harm

642
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: at all, and if it means that stepping back is

643
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,879
Speaker 1: going to help him, then by all means I hope

644
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: that that turns out to be the case. Um. It's

645
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: interesting because I always think of Steve Jobs as one

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00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 1: of those people who, because he's so guarded about his

647
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: personal life, we mostly know him from his professional life.

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00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,000
Speaker 1: So to us, Steve jobs is Apple, So it's hard

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00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: for us to imagine him not doing that because to

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00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 1: us that that looks like that's the driving force in

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00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,560
Speaker 1: his life. But who knows, you know, maybe that maybe

652
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 1: that is a uh, you know, a big factor. But

653
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,799
Speaker 1: maybe he finds other elements in his life to be

654
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:04,000
Speaker 1: far more compelling and we just don't know about it

655
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: because he keeps that personal, which is fine. There's no

656
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: reason to object to that, um, because he's he shouldn't

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00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:17,359
Speaker 1: be treated just as a celebrity anyway. Fascinating man. We

658
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:21,319
Speaker 1: really are expecting some interesting developments with Apple over the

659
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,439
Speaker 1: next few years, and it may be quite a few

660
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,439
Speaker 1: before we can start definitively to say, oh, well here

661
00:38:26,480 --> 00:38:29,719
Speaker 1: we go, here's the new direction. Um, But we'll keep

662
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:32,800
Speaker 1: our eyes open because you know, Apple is a huge

663
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,520
Speaker 1: player and technology and I don't see that changing anytime

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00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 1: real soon. So if you guys have any topics he

665
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 1: would like us to tackle anything, you'd like us to

666
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: to kind of wrap our minds around, whether it's a

667
00:38:45,160 --> 00:38:47,799
Speaker 1: philosophical matter sort of like this one, or if it's

668
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: a really technical thing like you just want us to

669
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:54,520
Speaker 1: explain how toasters work. Let us know, you get host toast.

670
00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 1: You can let us know on Facebook and Twitter are handled.

671
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: There is text stuff HS, double you or shoot us

672
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: an email. That address is tech stuff at how stuff

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00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,080
Speaker 1: works dot com and Chris and I will talk to

674
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:11,880
Speaker 1: you again really soon. Be sure to check out our

675
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,280
Speaker 1: new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join how Stuff

676
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:18,200
Speaker 1: Work staff as we explore the most promising and perplexing

677
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,960
Speaker 1: possibilities of tomorrow. The How Stuff Works iPhone app has arrived.

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00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:30,279
Speaker 1: Download it today on iTunes, brought to you by the

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00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: reinvented two thousand twelve camera. It's ready, are you