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Speaker 1: This program features the individual opinions of the hosts, guests,

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Speaker 1: and callers, and not necessarily those of the producer, the station,

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Speaker 1: it's affiliates or sponsors. This is True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking true

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Speaker 2: crime all the time. It's Tuesday, December sixteenth, and mann

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Speaker 2: do we have a stacked night of headlines. Murder charges

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Speaker 2: have been filed and shocking, absolutely shocking new developments in

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Speaker 2: the Rob and Michelle Reiner death and the now murder

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Speaker 2: investigation is underway. Also some new movement in the decades

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Speaker 2: old homicide of six year old Jean Benet Ramsey. Stunning

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Speaker 2: new information there, so I cannot wait to unpack that

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Speaker 2: with you guys. And also some really unsettling new discoveries

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Speaker 2: in the LA home of pop star David Will. There

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Speaker 2: actually be an arrest, and I feel like this information

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Speaker 2: is going to leave you all dumbfounded. I'm Stephanie Lai

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Speaker 2: Decker and I head of Katie Studios, where we make

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Speaker 2: true crime podcasts and documentaries. Haven't said that for a while,

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Speaker 2: and I get to be here every single night with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and Body Move In and of course we

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Speaker 2: have Taha, Sam and Adam in the control room and

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Speaker 2: we want to hear from you. So if you want

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Speaker 2: to jump in and join the combo, please do eight

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Speaker 2: eight eight three one crime or you could always leave

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Speaker 2: us a talkback, or of course you could always dm us. Oh,

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong, let's start with you. Where should we begin?

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Speaker 3: I think we should talk about what's going on in

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Speaker 3: Los Angeles with beloved director Rob Reiner and his wife,

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Speaker 3: producer Michelle Singer Reiner, who have been found dead in

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Speaker 3: their home.

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Speaker 2: That happened on Sunday.

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Speaker 3: So the update is prosecutors have announced that their son,

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Speaker 3: Nick Reiner, will will face two counts a first degree

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Speaker 3: murder for murdering his parents. Furthermore, Nick Reiner was unable

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Speaker 3: to appear in court today due to medical reasons, but

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Speaker 3: he has retained a high profile lawyer, Alan Jackson, who

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Speaker 3: you may remember from Karen Reid among many others.

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Speaker 4: He was like her main lawyer, right.

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Speaker 2: That's right, Robs is the lawyer that he is a

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Speaker 2: are Let's be honest. That was one of the best

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Speaker 2: held court rooms. You know. Alan Jackson's the real deal.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and he I didn't realize this. He also has

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Speaker 3: deep roots in Los Angeles. But we'll get to him

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Speaker 3: in a second. I wanted to give a couple of

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Speaker 3: details about what's going on because some of them are interesting. Okay,

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Speaker 3: for the charges for Nick Reiner, so the prosecutors revealed

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Speaker 3: that this case qualifies for special circumstance first degree murder

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Speaker 3: due to the fact that two people, both Rob and

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Speaker 3: Michelle Reiner, were murdered. Okay, I've heard of special circumstances before.

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Speaker 3: From our now, Nick Reiner also faces a special allegation

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Speaker 3: for personally using a dangerous and deadly weapon, specifically a knight.

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Speaker 3: So I was not familiar with that, and I don't

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Speaker 3: know had you heard body, Stephanie.

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Speaker 2: No, it actually was puzzling. I assumed that the special

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Speaker 2: specifications were simply because there were more than one victims.

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Speaker 2: I have never heard that before. As you know, with

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Speaker 2: a knife, maybe it's a certain kind of a knife

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Speaker 2: that's unusual.

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Speaker 3: Well what it appeared to be so far. No, and

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Speaker 3: it's two things, because you're totally correct. The special circumstance

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Speaker 3: for first degree murder is for the murder of two people.

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Speaker 3: But this is a special allegation that's on top of it,

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Speaker 3: and it's something I think we dig into tomorrow with

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Speaker 3: our prosecutor, Jarrett Farantino. But basically, it's to apply extra charges.

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Speaker 3: The person must have committed a felony, they must have

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Speaker 3: personally used the weapon and it is a deadly or

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Speaker 3: dangerous weapon that is not already part of the crime. Honestly,

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Speaker 3: even reading those specifications, I still need clarity personally, So

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Speaker 3: we'll leave that to our legal expert. Now, the DA's

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Speaker 3: office will consider the family's thoughts and desires and deciding

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Speaker 3: whether to seek the death penalty, which is.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's pretty I'm sorry. Yeah, I did some research

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Speaker 4: on the death penalty. You know, it's kind of one

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Speaker 4: of my special interests. And you know, California hasn't executed

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Speaker 4: somebody on death row since two thousand and six. And

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Speaker 4: Gavin Newsom, you know, he has a moratorium that he

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Speaker 4: placed in twenty nineteen on the death penalty. So even

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Speaker 4: though somebody gets the death penalty, doesn't mean they're going

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Speaker 4: to be executed in California.

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Speaker 2: And I still at the law point.

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Speaker 4: The law is still in the books, but in effect,

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Speaker 4: it's really not.

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Speaker 2: Some of the players that are shaping up in this

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Speaker 2: are pretty interesting. So yes, we have Alan Jackson, who

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Speaker 2: is now a very very very well respected defense attorney,

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Speaker 2: a very expensive defense attorney. There hasn't been any actual

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Speaker 2: salary posted, but you know, you're talking at least one

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Speaker 2: thousand to two thousand dollars per hour. I'm really curious

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Speaker 2: who's paying that bill. Is that coming out of the

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Speaker 2: family estate. Does Nick the son have access to certain

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Speaker 2: funds and he's paying as a third party himself, or

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Speaker 2: has a family member stepped in? Remember the family has

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Speaker 2: been so deeply affected. There's an older brother named Jake,

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Speaker 2: who's Nick's older brother. And then, of course we talked

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Speaker 2: about her last night. There's a daughter, younger sister, Romi,

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Speaker 2: who you know, had the terrible, terrible disaster to actually

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Speaker 2: find her deceased mother and father. And we've heard a

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Speaker 2: lot of accounts even just throughout this day, and some

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Speaker 2: misreporting as well that I think is worth mentioning. There

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Speaker 2: has been some reports earlier in the day. Even my mom,

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Speaker 2: who's in the studio with us tonight and just came

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Speaker 2: for a visite. Yes, yes, yes, another blonde in the mix.

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Speaker 2: You know, she was making mention of the fact that

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Speaker 2: Romy allegedly entered the home somewhere around three thirty pm,

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Speaker 2: and that Mom was still alive and that Mom had

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Speaker 2: said Nick did it. This was being reported very widely,

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Speaker 2: and that has since been disproven. They were deceased. When

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Speaker 2: she arrived. They were in their bed, which is a

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Speaker 2: very interesting detail because I guess it kind of the

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Speaker 2: assertion would be that they there wasn't some sort of

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Speaker 2: big explosive fight, you know, in the living room that escalated.

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Speaker 2: Does that imply Yeah, we don't really know the answer

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Speaker 2: to this, So this is just a theory that you know,

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Speaker 2: perhaps mom and dad were sleeping. They went to that

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Speaker 2: weird party at Conan and Brian's house. Not that the

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Speaker 2: party was weird, but the interaction between mom, dad, and

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Speaker 2: son was weird. We spoke about this last night. Apparently,

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Speaker 2: you know, according to reports, Nick, the son was very odd.

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Speaker 2: He seemed off. In fact, mom and dad actually to

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Speaker 2: bring him along last minute because they felt like something

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Speaker 2: was off with him and they didn't want to leave

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Speaker 2: him alone in the house. He was also living with

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Speaker 2: mom and dad, So he comes to the party, was

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Speaker 2: acting very blank. People have you know, made the expression

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Speaker 2: like a very blank expression, and like we talked about

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Speaker 2: last night, he was going up to people and asking

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Speaker 2: are you famous? Are you famous? Are you famous? Some

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Speaker 2: sort of escalation between father and son occurs. Then mom

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Speaker 2: and dad go home, they go to bed, and then

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Speaker 2: at some point, allegedly their son enters the house and

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Speaker 2: takes their lives and leaves them for dead and a

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Speaker 2: pretty major overkill. Sus came to the house at about

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Speaker 2: two pm, didn't answer, then notified to the daughter who

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Speaker 2: lives across the street and basically said, we can't get

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Speaker 2: in touch with your parents, and that's why she enters

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Speaker 2: the scene at that point, and you can imagine it's

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Speaker 2: unimaginable what she walked into.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, this is true crime tonight. If you're just joining us,

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Speaker 3: we're talking about the fact that Nick Reiner is going

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Speaker 3: to face two counts of first degree murder for his parents,

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Speaker 3: beloved director Rob Reiner and Michelle Singer Reiner Boddy, you

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Speaker 3: were about to jump in that.

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Speaker 4: Party at Conan O'Brien's house on Saturday night. I guess

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Speaker 4: Bill Hayter was there, And if you guys don't know

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Speaker 4: who he is, he used to be on Saturday Night.

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Speaker 4: I really funny guy, so funny, and apparently he was

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Speaker 4: having a conversation with somebody and Nick the son the

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Speaker 4: accused in this case, kept interrupting him, and Bill Hayter

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Speaker 4: I basically had to kind of get blunt with him

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Speaker 4: and be like, this is a private conversation, and that's

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Speaker 4: kind of what sets this blank stare scenario off. He

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Speaker 4: kind of didn't like that.

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Speaker 2: He didn't like that, and you have to assume he

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Speaker 2: was on heavy amounts of drugs. We've kind of gone

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Speaker 2: down in the rabbit hole a bit, at least I

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Speaker 2: have in terms of I watched the movie that is

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Speaker 2: based on his life that you did, dad and son

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Speaker 2: made together. Yeah, I watched it, you know, at work

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Speaker 2: in the background and was sort of looking for there

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Speaker 2: being some kind of a smoking gun in the childhood

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Speaker 2: or something to point to. And you know, again, this

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Speaker 2: is a story that was also co written by Nick

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Speaker 2: the accused, Dad directed it. And you know, there wasn't

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Speaker 2: something super deep other than the stories that we've heard before,

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Speaker 2: which is, you know, drugs get in the mix. There

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Speaker 2: was a lot of meth meth apparently being used, lots

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Speaker 2: of on again, off again rehabs. You know, we talked

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Speaker 2: about this last night. Seventeen different rehabilitation centers, remember seventeen

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Speaker 2: is pretty astounding. It's like twenty five thousand dollars to

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Speaker 2: walk in the door at a rehabilitation center and imagine

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Speaker 2: now the rent for thirty days. It's pretty intense. So

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Speaker 2: this is somebody who's been in and out of these

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Speaker 2: scenarios for a really long time. Somehow wound up back

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Speaker 2: at home and had been living at home, and apparently

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Speaker 2: there's been some Esque related incidents prior to this, but

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Speaker 2: nothing that would assume murder. I mean, it's really like

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Speaker 2: next level at this point. And obviously today he was

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Speaker 2: supposed to be in the courtroom today at meek thirty

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Speaker 2: this morning. That didn't happen. According to Nathan Hockman, I

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Speaker 2: watched the press conference that the new district attorney has

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Speaker 2: also given today, basically saying he didn't get cleared for

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Speaker 2: medical which I guess is a very standard thing that

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Speaker 2: if you're checked into the police facility or into the jail,

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Speaker 2: you have to go through some medical assessments. We have

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Speaker 2: to assume maybe there was some drugs that he was

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Speaker 2: coming off of. This is just an assertion, not a

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Speaker 2: fact or that. We also have heard reports that he's

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Speaker 2: on suicide watch. You could imagine if you've committed a

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Speaker 2: crime drug fueled. Now it's wearing off those drugs and

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Speaker 2: the reality setting in. I can only imagine. But you

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Speaker 2: do have to actually find a lawyer, and that doesn't

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Speaker 2: happen very quickly. You have to call a lawyer, You

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Speaker 2: have to call several lawyer. You have to retain a lawyer.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes a retaining a lawyer at that level is up

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Speaker 2: to a half a million dollars of a retainer to

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Speaker 2: even have them look at your case. So allegedly he

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Speaker 2: may be in court tomorrow. We don't totally know unless

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Speaker 2: that changes, or if there's been any new development since

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Speaker 2: we've gone on air. We'll keep you posted. But it

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Speaker 2: seems like there's a big bill being paid. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm curious who is standing up for him right now.

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Speaker 2: I can't imagine his siblings are I was just going

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Speaker 2: to capable of doing that. It must be so hard

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Speaker 2: for them, I can't imagine. But they still loved their brother.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure I.

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Speaker 5: Was the older brother could be the one, because I

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Speaker 5: would imagine that the sister who walked in on this

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Speaker 5: would probably not.

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Speaker 4: But I think somebody really powerful would have to make

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Speaker 4: that phone call to get Alan Jackson's attention.

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Speaker 2: Exactly exactly, and here he was. He was there today,

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Speaker 2: he was in the courthouse today, inside the courthouse. He's

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Speaker 2: in Los Angeles, right, David, exactly exactly.

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Speaker 3: And it is complicated, as you said, body between. You know,

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Speaker 3: Nick Reiner is still the brother of his siblings, and yes,

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Speaker 3: he's accused of murdering their parents.

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Speaker 4: I mean even his siblings know that he's unwell, right, Like.

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Speaker 5: Yes, they've seen it through, so there might.

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Speaker 4: Be some like level of compassion, you know, for his defense.

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Speaker 6: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 4: I don't, I please don't. I have no inside knowledge, obviously,

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Speaker 4: I don't know these people, but I'm just you know.

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Speaker 3: Wide Strokes officials even commented that cases involving family members

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Speaker 3: are just across the board, among the most challenging and

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Speaker 3: mostly difficult to prosecute because the crime themselves are often

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Speaker 3: really brutal and intimate. And then there's the layers of

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Speaker 3: you know, which side of the courtroom are the suspects

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Speaker 3: siblings sitting on?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and like again, what a sicko think about it?

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Speaker 2: I don't care what drugs are on you go into

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Speaker 2: a room, if in fact this is accurate, and mom

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Speaker 2: and Dad are sleeping in their bed. You know, you

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Speaker 2: go to bed, that is sacred space. You know, that's

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Speaker 2: where you finally can turn your brain off and really relax.

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Speaker 2: And thankfully they were together. But can you imagine the

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Speaker 2: horror waking up to the devastation that they must have

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Speaker 2: been experiencing, and to know that it's your son, the

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Speaker 2: person that you gave birth to. It's unbelievable, unbelievable. So

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Speaker 2: those reports, these are the information that is you know,

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Speaker 2: forever evolving. Will obviously be following it closely. But man,

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Speaker 2: you know, talk about you know, loving your loved ones

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Speaker 2: and holding your babies close, and you know, to all

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Speaker 2: of those struggling with addiction or know somebody you know

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Speaker 2: that is struggling with addiction, you know, it does take

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Speaker 2: a village and our hearts to go out.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not easy. It's not an easy journey, right,

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Speaker 4: like living with an addict and having to deal with

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Speaker 4: an addict, and then the addict themselves to add themselves.

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Speaker 2: The shame that.

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Speaker 4: Troubles with it, right And you know, I don't know,

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Speaker 4: I just I feel it's a disease obviously, and you

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Speaker 4: know treatment is obviously the solution. I just don't know

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Speaker 4: that it always works like this guy went how many times?

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Speaker 2: That's right?

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Speaker 3: And also not a lot has been made at least

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Speaker 3: that I've looked at his mental health and how and

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Speaker 3: if that went in. But there's a lot still outstanding,

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Speaker 3: and including the fact that investigators are still awaiting the

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Speaker 3: coroner's analysis to determine whether the murders of Rob and

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Speaker 3: Michelle Reiner occurred Saturday night or early Sunday morning.

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Speaker 2: So they don't know, No, they don't have a time

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Speaker 2: of death. Yet they don't have to assess that.

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Speaker 5: Oh yeah, that's a good point. You think they'd have

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Speaker 5: cameras at.

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Speaker 2: This what for whatever reason they didn't have it today.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that was asked by many, many journalists and

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Speaker 2: it's one of those questions and everybody just even asking

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Speaker 2: at the press conference, and just in terms of the players.

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Speaker 2: As a reminder, Nathan hawk Man, who is the current

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Speaker 2: district attorney, also did the Menendez brothers case and he's

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Speaker 2: the one that cambashed their plea remember their new trial.

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Speaker 2: He's the one that was like, no.

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Speaker 3: Dice, right, yeah, well listen, keep it here when we

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Speaker 3: come back. There is surprising new movement in the John

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Speaker 3: Benet Ramsey case nearly three decades later, and there is

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Speaker 3: a startling discovery about the David case. True Crime Tonight.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

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Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

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Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and Body move in. So John Bennet Ramsey,

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Speaker 2: what a stunner. There seems to be some real new

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Speaker 2: movement here. And again this is a decade's old case.

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Speaker 2: We all have wanted answers for six year old Jeen's murder,

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Speaker 2: and so many people have been questioned and identified and

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Speaker 2: the finger was pointed at mom and Dad. Oof body

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Speaker 2: tell us everything.

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Speaker 4: So I just want to for those listeners who maybe

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Speaker 4: aren't so familiar with like the true crime sphere, but

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Speaker 4: now you're into it, right. There's a couple cases that

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Speaker 4: live in like you know, the zeitgeast that you know

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Speaker 4: are always if there's an update, everyone's going to stop

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Speaker 4: what they're doing and discuss it. And if you had

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Speaker 4: to pick the top like say ten cases of all

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Speaker 4: time that are still open, I think I'm I'm confident

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Speaker 4: in saying Jean Benet would be number one.

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Speaker 3: John, I think that's probably right. It lives so large

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Speaker 3: in everyone's mind. I mean when this happened, right all,

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Speaker 3: I'll say nineteen ninety six, and then she was the

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Speaker 3: cover of every tabloid, that beautiful little pageant girl.

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Speaker 4: M hmm, exactly, and you know it's and she was

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Speaker 4: just this beautiful, you know, young little girl. She was

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Speaker 4: six years old, died, you know, murdered mysteriously in her home.

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Speaker 4: And you know, if so, if anything happens with Jean Bonnet,

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Speaker 4: people are gonna stop what they're doing. They're gonna want

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Speaker 4: to talk about it. Another one would be a Zodiac.

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Speaker 4: I think Zodiac is in there.

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Speaker 2: The black Dahlia, black Dahlia. She was just talking about

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Speaker 2: that today.

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Speaker 4: For Madeline McCann and Mara Murray, the two m and

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Speaker 4: then I call them the two emin Ms and West

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Speaker 4: Memphis three I think are the top five. So if

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Speaker 4: anything happens in those cases, we got to talk about it.

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Speaker 4: So here we are, we're going to talk about it.

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Speaker 4: Even any little shred of evidence that comes out, we're

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Speaker 4: going to stop and talk about it. And so the

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Speaker 4: Boulder Police released a statement confirming that they are actively

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Speaker 4: following leads and investigating Jean Bonnet. Ramsey's nineteen ninety six murder.

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Speaker 4: Jean Jean Ramsey, who is Jean Benet's father, has publicly

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Speaker 4: expressed optimism that the case mays to be solved. John

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Speaker 4: Benet was a six year old girl from Boulder, Colorado.

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Speaker 4: She was found dead in her family's basement on December

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Speaker 4: twenty fifth, Christmas Day, nineteen ninety six, with her desk

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Speaker 4: ruled homicide. Over the past thirty years, you guys, thirty years,

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Speaker 4: it's been two. There's two main theories, two branches that

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Speaker 4: this has developed into a family member theory involving a

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Speaker 4: possible accidental or deliberate act by a family member, or

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Speaker 4: an intruder theory. So there's theory A, in theory B yep,

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Speaker 4: and you can go down, you know, so far down

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Speaker 4: the rabbit hole on theory A, which is the family

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Speaker 4: did something, somebody in the family and you get to

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Speaker 4: the almost the end and you think you might have

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Speaker 4: and it just collapses in on itself. And the same

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Speaker 4: with the intruder theory. The more you dig, you're so close,

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Speaker 4: oh my god, it could be this, it could be this,

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Speaker 4: and it just collapses on itself. So there's in this.

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Speaker 4: It's been the problem with this case. So Boulder Police

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Speaker 4: Chief Stephen Redfern statements today or not today, but recently,

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Speaker 4: the case remains a top priority for our department. This

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Speaker 4: past year, detectives have conducted several new interviews as well

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Speaker 4: as reinterviewed individuals based on tips we've received. Officers have

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Speaker 4: collected new evidence and tested and retested other pieces of

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Speaker 4: evidence to generate new leads, utilizing advances and forensic science.

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Speaker 4: You know, we spoke with CC Moore and we speak

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Speaker 4: with a lot of really great experts in this field. Yes,

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Speaker 4: there's been a lot of great new DNA advancements that

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Speaker 4: have been made in forensic science. So police are looking

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Speaker 4: at all this evidence that have been collected in you know,

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Speaker 4: John Maine's murder, and they're retesting it using these more

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Speaker 4: advanced techniques.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 4: For those who aren't really like into the details of

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Speaker 4: the case, there there was like DNA found ine pants, okay,

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Speaker 4: and it was okay, this is going to do it,

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Speaker 4: this is going to do it.

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Speaker 2: Well it didn't.

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Speaker 4: It excluded everybody in the family, which is a blessing,

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Speaker 4: you know, but leaves everything open and I want to

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Speaker 4: say it, actually the DNA they think it belongs to

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Speaker 4: the factory worker who made the pants in China?

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Speaker 3: Is that where that landed? Because I remember, I know

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Speaker 3: it was tested and I forgot if that was. Listen,

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Speaker 3: this is like a thirty year old case. And there

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Speaker 3: are people who have made their entire career based on

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Speaker 3: investigating Jeanbanese case. Podcasters, TV personalities obviously investigators and whatnot.

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Speaker 4: They would know. I mean, I have forgotten a lot

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Speaker 4: of what I you know what I mean, like because

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Speaker 4: it has been so long.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean Mark Furman. I don't know if you

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Speaker 3: guys remember him. He was the oh j O. J.

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Speaker 2: Simpson.

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Speaker 3: I mean I think he wrote a book, if not,

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Speaker 3: was extensively dominic done like this guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, she has been written about.

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Speaker 4: So the advancements in dnare are really promising. And John

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Speaker 4: or I'm sorry, I always say John Beney when I

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Speaker 4: say John Ramsey. John Ramsey is very optimistic and he

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Speaker 4: I met him at Crime Con when I met you guys,

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Speaker 4: actually yeah, and he he was kind of like begging

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Speaker 4: for the Boulder Police Department to reopen or retest the

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Speaker 4: DNA with AUTHOROM labs, and so he is saying the

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Speaker 4: key This is a quote the key, the key really

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Speaker 4: in progress has been the addition of new leadership. There

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Speaker 4: he's talking about the police department. I'm impressed with him.

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Speaker 4: I think he's sincere and honest. The problem with the

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Speaker 4: old leadership was the old guard, these people that were

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Speaker 4: in the police department and had never investigated a murder.

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Speaker 4: John Ramsey, the father of Jean Benet, is advocating for

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Speaker 4: the use of AUTHOROM labs for investigative genetic genealogy, saying

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Speaker 4: I think if they do, we've got a probably seventy

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Speaker 4: or eighty percent chance of getting an answer. It's kind

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Speaker 4: of the latest and greatest use of technology and DNA

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Speaker 4: des all crimes. AKA this is me now body Brian Coberger, Right, No,

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Speaker 4: I mean no question.

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Speaker 2: Author is a real deal. We're working on several cases

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Speaker 2: right now, equally of a long time, many decades old.

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Speaker 2: DNA and AUTHORAM somehow is really the golden steel right

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Speaker 2: now on how to bring that to light. And just

396
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Speaker 2: because a case is thirty years old, it doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: the DNA can't be really useful and maybe they can

398
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Speaker 2: finally get answers for you know, Jean Benet senior dad

399
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Speaker 2: in this case. You know, he's been fighting the fight

400
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Speaker 2: on every level for so long, even under the glare

401
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Speaker 2: of prosuspicion on his own, Like people really were suspicious

402
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Speaker 2: of him, of his son, of his wife. Yeah, he did.

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Speaker 4: People forget this. The Ramses were indicted in nineteen ninety eight,

404
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Speaker 4: I believe, for the murder. But then when the indictment

405
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Speaker 4: came back, the dall it collapsed in on itself, just

406
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Speaker 4: like I've been kind of saying, like everything you go

407
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Speaker 4: in on it collapses on itself. And he didn't think

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Speaker 4: he had enough evidence to present it a trial and resented.

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Speaker 2: The And I never thought mom and dad did it

410
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Speaker 2: or were involved, because typically typically one of them would

411
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Speaker 2: turn on the other. So if a husband and wife

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Speaker 2: commit a crime, say against a child, God forbid, hideous,

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Speaker 2: hideous thought, you know, at some point to save themselves,

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Speaker 2: typically one person will turn on the other. In fact,

415
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Speaker 2: sometimes investigators are banking on that right that maybe you

416
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Speaker 2: know you'll turn on your husband because you know you

417
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Speaker 2: want to save yourself. They never did. They were a

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Speaker 2: united done. They were very until Patsy's poor death. She

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Speaker 2: died of cancer. Probably do so much stress, so much loss,

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Speaker 2: so much anxiety.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I mean let's let's face it, though, there

422
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Speaker 4: were a lot of reasons to be suspicious of them, right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Number one was back in the day in nineteen ninety six.

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Speaker 4: You know, Jean Beney Ramsey, she was a little like

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Speaker 4: living doll, and she was in pageantry, which you know,

427
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Speaker 4: that's fine or whatever, but the hair and the makeup

428
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Speaker 4: and the eyelashes and the false teeth.

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Speaker 2: I mean, she's six years old.

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Speaker 5: And she was people seeing that too, so that's yeah,

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Speaker 5: I had never seen.

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Speaker 2: It was very startling at first.

433
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 4: It was very startling. Yeah, and then you know there's

434
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 4: the note, the ransom note, and you know, it was

435
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:39,560
Speaker 4: like this weird ransom note. The amount that they were

436
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 4: demanding was the same exact amount that John Ramsey had

437
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 4: been given in a bonus that year, which how would

438
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 4: they know that? The ransom people, right, how would they

439
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 4: know that? And then this pineapple like there was there

440
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 4: were a lot of reasons that one.

441
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 5: What was the pineapple story?

442
00:24:53,960 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 4: So the story is is that they went to a

443
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 4: Christmas party and they came home and went right to bed, okay,

444
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 4: and woke up and John Benet was missing right Well,

445
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,760
Speaker 4: when that when they did the autopsy, Jean Benet had

446
00:25:09,760 --> 00:25:13,520
Speaker 4: undigested pineapple, which means that she had just eaten it

447
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:17,239
Speaker 4: prior to her death, like right before her death. And

448
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,520
Speaker 4: on the kitchen table was a bowl of pineapple with

449
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 4: a spoon and a glass of tea that had the

450
00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 4: brother's fingerprints on it. So there's been never been really

451
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 4: a good explanation for the pineapple.

452
00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 2: There was a documentary back in the day, not the

453
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 2: most recent one that we saw on Netflix, which was excellent.

454
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,679
Speaker 2: I think the company Campfire produced that and it was

455
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:46,399
Speaker 2: really well done. There was other incarnations. I mean, I

456
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 2: feel like I've watched every possible thing on John Pinet

457
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 2: over the last couple of decades, but there was one

458
00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,679
Speaker 2: specifically that made the made the allegation that it was

459
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:58,440
Speaker 2: the sun, and then you remember the Sun also on

460
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:03,119
Speaker 2: Doctor Phil and that was her strange appearance. But again

461
00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:06,000
Speaker 2: that got discounted, and I thought in the most recent

462
00:26:06,080 --> 00:26:08,840
Speaker 2: documentary they did a really good job. And it also

463
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 2: points to the idea of tunnel vision, something that we

464
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 2: had to be mindful of in all of the cases

465
00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,760
Speaker 2: that we cover, you know, that is it possible that

466
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:21,400
Speaker 2: the investigators had tunnel vision? They were, you know, very

467
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:23,840
Speaker 2: confident that it was mom and dad at the helm

468
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:27,680
Speaker 2: and didn't really want to listen to any other theories

469
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 2: at the time.

470
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,679
Speaker 4: And the crime scene was completely destroyed.

471
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 2: That's what I was going to say.

472
00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 3: They you know, even if that was the tunnel vision

473
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,520
Speaker 3: turned into the tunnel vision of the detectives, which surely

474
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 3: that does in retrospect, seemed to be what happened on

475
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:48,240
Speaker 3: those first pivotal minutes and hours the the you know,

476
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:53,480
Speaker 3: the officers again, they were not homicide detectives, and John

477
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 3: Ramsey was all over the place because the.

478
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 2: First daughter getting murdered. Yeah, I mean, come on.

479
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,800
Speaker 4: And he found her. And if you see your child,

480
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 4: you're going to run to them and pick them up

481
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,159
Speaker 4: and you know, check on them and scream and holler.

482
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 4: And that's what happened.

483
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:14,760
Speaker 5: And so for our listeners. So just to set the

484
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 5: stage of why that crime? So what what was the situation? Happened?

485
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 4: The police they called the police because they found the

486
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,640
Speaker 4: ransom note. They called the police. The police arrived and

487
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 4: instead of securing the Ramses and whatnot, they let them

488
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 4: search and John John Ramsey, the father, is the one

489
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 4: who found Joan Benet in the basement and he was

490
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:40,000
Speaker 4: alone when he found her, and so he of course

491
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,919
Speaker 4: ran to her and picked her up like any father would,

492
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 4: like any father would. Right. This is why people who

493
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,520
Speaker 4: have missing children shouldn't go searching, you know. It's that's

494
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 4: why the one of the reasons the police tell you

495
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,360
Speaker 4: let us handle it, you know, because your natural.

496
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think there was something suspicious, that something's going

497
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 5: the time where I think they the dad made a

498
00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,080
Speaker 5: beeline to the area where the body was. I think

499
00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 5: they talked about that stuff of the document. You might

500
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 5: remember the.

501
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,400
Speaker 3: House was a little peculiar, had a lot of Yeah,

502
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 3: he went to an area sort of immediately that the

503
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 3: detectives had already you know, quote searched the basement obviously

504
00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 3: not that thoroughly. And but also listen, if you have

505
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 3: a house with two kids, you're gonna know about every

506
00:28:27,720 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 3: weird space you have, right because you know, like raccoons,

507
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 3: kids like nooks and cranies like you know, they just so.

508
00:28:37,240 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 2: And there was something different about the end the how

509
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 2: that how this you know, predator entered the house to

510
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 2: the downstairs.

511
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 4: Interesting there was a spider web that was like undisturbed,

512
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,400
Speaker 4: that's right, And it was the only way that they

513
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 4: think the the intruder theory might have came into the

514
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 4: house was through this window in the basement and there

515
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,719
Speaker 4: was like this suitcase there for them to like step on, right,

516
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 4: But there was this spider web that was unexplained and

517
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,200
Speaker 4: there might be an explanation now, but at the time

518
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 4: it was unexplained because it was undisturbed, huh, meaning that

519
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 4: nobody really could have come through there. So, like I said,

520
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 4: you go down and then everything just collapses in on

521
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 4: itself every time.

522
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 2: Nothing right.

523
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,400
Speaker 4: So hopefully the Boulder Police Department will be able to

524
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,480
Speaker 4: submit this DNA and do some IDG with authorm and

525
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 4: develop a family tree of the suspect.

526
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,479
Speaker 5: I feel like that documentary was pivotal to keeping this

527
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,080
Speaker 5: on everyone's mind and talking about it. I was saying

528
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 5: to Stephanie earlier. I'm like, I feel like documentaries have

529
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 5: really reignited like certain cases that people kind of forget about.

530
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 5: But because of it, now, you know, the police feel

531
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,800
Speaker 5: more pressure from everyone and people start to type blogs

532
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 5: and comments on it.

533
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 2: So, by the way, you know, in law enforcement's defense,

534
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:57,560
Speaker 2: by the way about it, you did such a good

535
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,000
Speaker 2: job laying that out because it's such a complicated case.

536
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,400
Speaker 2: It's a complicated is a complicated when you did a

537
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,280
Speaker 2: great job. But think about it. For law enforcement, they

538
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 2: have troubles to be solving today real time, right, So

539
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 2: law enforcement has limited resources. There's only x amount of

540
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 2: officers or detectives, et cetera that are solving crimes of today.

541
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:19,719
Speaker 2: So to go back in time thirty years with limited

542
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,120
Speaker 2: resources and limited you know, ability to do that limited

543
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 2: manpower I should say nice, not their ability, but just

544
00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 2: not having the manpower. So sometimes in really unique situations,

545
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 2: a production company or a studio steps in as a

546
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 2: documentarian or a documentary producer and they have a different

547
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 2: level of time, so they're able to kind of go

548
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 2: back and sift through every document. I mean, we've done

549
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,360
Speaker 2: this to nauseum. Where you go back in time thirty

550
00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:49,520
Speaker 2: years you find that one weird box that has all

551
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,880
Speaker 2: the info, and right, you kind of start from scratch.

552
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:55,479
Speaker 2: You know, we might have months to do that, but

553
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:58,480
Speaker 2: you know, law enforcement doesn't have that level of manpower

554
00:30:58,920 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 2: in most cases.

555
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 5: Ahead That's very true.

556
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, we have a lot of things to get

557
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,200
Speaker 2: to you tonight. We're going to be talking about the

558
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,560
Speaker 2: update in the Anna Kepner case, the eighteen year old

559
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,440
Speaker 2: who lost her life while aboard a cruise ship, as

560
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 2: well as new developments in the pop star David case,

561
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 2: which we've all been asking for more info on. Turns

562
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 2: out we have some. But first let's go to talk about.

563
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 6: I want to leave a talkback regarding the Brian Kohlberger

564
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 6: and the bananas. And you're saying that he was going

565
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 6: to receive counseling for his eating disorder. Yeah, they don't

566
00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 6: give you counseling like that. And when you do get therapy,

567
00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 6: if you get therapy, it's not what you get on

568
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 6: the out. So he has all these times been in

569
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 6: this belt and do nothing, So he's riding kites about everything.

570
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 6: Thanks guys, take care, Bye bye.

571
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

572
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 3: I had no idea that bananas were such a controversial

573
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:56,880
Speaker 3: hurt and their placement in Brian Coberger's world that they

574
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 3: would be really have such a spotlight upon them, right.

575
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 4: I mean, let me just say, any any counseling that

576
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,120
Speaker 4: Brian Coberger is getting in prison is one hundred percent

577
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 4: more counseling that I am being offered here out.

578
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 2: In the free world.

579
00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 5: Interesting. Yeah, good point.

580
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a really fair point. And I mean, isn't

581
00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 2: that crazy? Yeah, I mean we live in an upside

582
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 2: down world right now. Don't feel that way at times? Yeah, yeah,

583
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:22,720
Speaker 2: I mean that makes a lot of sense. And man, yeah,

584
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 2: the bananas have gotten a lot of playing.

585
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think I I I And that's thank

586
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:27,720
Speaker 4: you so much for the talkback, by the way, because

587
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 4: we were wondering if he was going to be getting counseling, Like,

588
00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:32,840
Speaker 4: I don't know that we were sure, right, Like, I

589
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 4: don't remember what I said. I blacked out.

590
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 5: I think you mentioned that.

591
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like, I don't know. Maybe he'll get some counseling

592
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 4: for this while he's in you know, with people with

593
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 4: you know, disorders, do they get counseling in prison?

594
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 2: I have no idea. Apparently not.

595
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 3: And to explain the talk back, if this is out

596
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 3: of context and this much set must sound very very strange.

597
00:32:55,600 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 3: Brian Coburger has he is guilty of murder ring for

598
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,719
Speaker 3: University of Idaho students. He is behind bars for the

599
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 3: rest of his life and then some. He has an

600
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,719
Speaker 3: eating disorder called ARFID, which makes him very particular in

601
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,000
Speaker 3: what he can or can't eat. It's a more it's

602
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 3: a mental condition. And he is complaining that the type

603
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:22,880
Speaker 3: of bananas he is being served in his really strict

604
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,920
Speaker 3: prison block are not up to par for the bananas

605
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:30,680
Speaker 3: he enjoys. Interesting and that's controversy and that this arfid

606
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 3: just for people who aren't Like I didn't know what

607
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 3: it was either until I, you know, came across this

608
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 3: Brian Koberger thing.

609
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 4: It's he's like he can experience fear of choking, like

610
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 4: and it's not just like oh I'm scared, it's like

611
00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 4: debilitating fear literally of like choking or not being able

612
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:52,440
Speaker 4: to eat it or swallow. And so he can only

613
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,800
Speaker 4: have certain kinds of foods. And then when we got

614
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:59,120
Speaker 4: the Idaho you know documents in the photo dump, so

615
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 4: we saw his free and pantry and refrigerator. He really

616
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:04,280
Speaker 4: only eats a certain kind of food.

617
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 2: I mean like it was the.

618
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 4: Same pizzas, the same cheese, the same this everything was

619
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 4: the same kind of like so I was like, oh, okay, yeah,

620
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:15,200
Speaker 4: I was.

621
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 3: Gonna say, not for nothing, I'm not just counting the

622
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 3: r fill. I also many people, and most college students,

623
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,280
Speaker 3: I would say, have about five types of anything.

624
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 4: That's a good point. That's a really good point.

625
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 2: And like, wouldn't it be a beautiful world and this

626
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 2: would be one of the things I would wish for

627
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:35,360
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty six, if we could offer healthcare to

628
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,760
Speaker 2: people before the crime occurs. You know, you look at things,

629
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 2: you know, even some of the crimes that we're covering tonight.

630
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 2: You know, Nick, you know Rob Reiner's son. You know,

631
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:50,120
Speaker 2: obviously he had a lot of access to rehabilitation. But

632
00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,680
Speaker 2: wouldn't it be great if like us, parents or young

633
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 2: kids can just have access to you know, psychological mental

634
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:02,399
Speaker 2: health care early on, so some of these kinks get

635
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:05,280
Speaker 2: worked out before they're needed behind bars.

636
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 4: I think I think America needs more therapists. I think

637
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 4: that's one of the biggest issues is that you know,

638
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:16,040
Speaker 4: there's just not enough for being a therapists to go around.

639
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,280
Speaker 2: Or even if they are, oftentimes they charge out of network.

640
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,360
Speaker 2: So if you have health insurance, which so many don't,

641
00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 2: Not to be controversial, I know it's a hot topic

642
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 2: right now, but you know, it's so so expensive, and

643
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 2: then oftentimes it doesn't either a cover your mental health

644
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 2: care or your specific need in mental health isn't covered,

645
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 2: so you have to pay out a bucket and you

646
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 2: know who has all this extra cash to to, you know,

647
00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:46,000
Speaker 2: to say you can do that and then suddenly, now

648
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 2: we are behind bars after committing a vicious crime from

649
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 2: which you cannot come back for You're going to be

650
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 2: behind bars for the rest of your life. Is that

651
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:56,600
Speaker 2: the time to really trigger it? I mean, yes is

652
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,400
Speaker 2: the answer in a perfect world, But I don't know.

653
00:35:59,440 --> 00:36:01,759
Speaker 2: The pre care seems to be something that should be

654
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 2: more of a priority.

655
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,200
Speaker 3: And just to put out as a reminder, when Jessica

656
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,800
Speaker 3: Kaplan was on, she's a therapist who has really talked

657
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:15,160
Speaker 3: us through some really harrowing times and she had addressed

658
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 3: this issue. Stephanie and Body just spoke a lot about

659
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 3: finding specifically therapist, but Jessica had thrown out, you know,

660
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,719
Speaker 3: if you have a place of worship in your neighborhood,

661
00:36:27,760 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 3: there's often really solid roads to counseling of different sorts,

662
00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 3: and maybe just look community wise and sort of if

663
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:38,680
Speaker 3: it's women's centers or the men's why and.

664
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:46,240
Speaker 2: Just it's a different avenue and it I'm not suggesting answer,

665
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 2: by the way, sometimes you just need to share. I

666
00:36:48,719 --> 00:36:50,840
Speaker 2: think that's the biggest thing. And even the show I

667
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 2: think has done so much just for personally just by

668
00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:57,919
Speaker 2: hearing other people's stories or sharing our own, just by

669
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 2: saying something out loud and having someone receive it just

670
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 2: to hear it. It doesn't even have to be a therapist.

671
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 2: Sometimes it's just you know, looking it up so you

672
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 2: realize the piano that you're carrying on your back doesn't

673
00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 2: need to be carried just by yourself. And so many

674
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,919
Speaker 2: people have had likely similar experiences. God knows, I've lived

675
00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,880
Speaker 2: a million lives. Bring it on, You'll never shock me.

676
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 2: And sometimes just talking out.

677
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 5: Loud, yeah, I agree. Sometimes the three of you, like

678
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 5: when we're all together, I'm like, gosh, okay, I'm glad

679
00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 5: to hear someone else feels the same way I do

680
00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 5: about this particular horrible thing that whoever has said or done.

681
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 4: Like, I'm not crazy, I'm not losing my mind. Other

682
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,160
Speaker 4: people feel the same way, Okay I feel.

683
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

684
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,799
Speaker 3: Honestly, in life, I use that to help myself if

685
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 3: I'm having whatever the problem is, a problem with an

686
00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 3: accounting issue or a plumbing issue and something I'm like

687
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 3: embarrassed about, I remind myself I'm not the only human

688
00:37:57,840 --> 00:38:00,840
Speaker 3: who has walked this planet who has had this problem,

689
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 3: no matter what it is, no matter what, And honestly,

690
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 3: it really helps me.

691
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you know, people carry their secrets and it

692
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 2: seems so heavy and so scary, and then you know,

693
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 2: your body keeps to score. And by the way, just

694
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 2: because you feel a certain way about something doesn't make

695
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 2: it fact. That's also just the truth. How we feel

696
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 2: isn't always the truth, you know. And sometimes when you

697
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 2: have a girlfriend or you know, I have you guys

698
00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 2: or our listeners who are so helpful, you know, it

699
00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 2: just allows us to share different perspectives and like, you're

700
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:37,160
Speaker 2: not alone. Nobody's alone, you know, nor should you feel alone?

701
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I agree. Well, this this Brian Colberger conversation

702
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:44,719
Speaker 5: about the bananas, as Courtney said, that should surprise how

703
00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:48,719
Speaker 5: many people responded to it. We actually have another talk

704
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 5: back about my conversation.

705
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,520
Speaker 2: If you stop yourself, but let's hear the talk.

706
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 5: Let's hear it though.

707
00:38:54,800 --> 00:39:00,760
Speaker 7: Yes, hello crime family, excuse me on the answer from Atlanta,

708
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:04,760
Speaker 7: and I just wanted to give a talk back about

709
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 7: the kay. I think he thought that he was famous

710
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 7: once he said he killed everybody, and I think he

711
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:16,600
Speaker 7: thought they would be pounding at his door to interview him,

712
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,359
Speaker 7: and he had no earthly idea what was coming. And

713
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,319
Speaker 7: some of that I'm sure will happen eventually, but I

714
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:26,799
Speaker 7: don't know what he expects.

715
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:27,680
Speaker 2: Ridiculous.

716
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 7: Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

717
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:33,520
Speaker 2: We love you, Nancy.

718
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 4: Yeah, more often I like you.

719
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:37,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so true. But by the way, there's probably

720
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 2: a lot of truth to that. You know, this seems

721
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 2: to be someone who maybe has narcissistic tendencies, and the

722
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:47,279
Speaker 2: assumption would be that, yeah, there was a lot of

723
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,919
Speaker 2: attention on Brian Colberger, which again rips my heart out

724
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 2: for the victims' families and even for Brian's family. Frankly,

725
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 2: he was all eyes on Brian, and now that that's

726
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 2: you know, no longer the case, I would have to

727
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:04,640
Speaker 2: assume people are throwing some real cash at him, Like

728
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,720
Speaker 2: we at KT do not pay people for those contributions

729
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 2: just because it's gross, frankly, but I'm sure somebody is.

730
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I often think this is kind of

731
00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,359
Speaker 4: in the same vein of you know, Brian thought that

732
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,360
Speaker 4: he would get all this attention and want to I

733
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:28,000
Speaker 4: think he had narcissism, obviously, but I think that there

734
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:31,680
Speaker 4: was some kind of power he had knowing that he

735
00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:34,319
Speaker 4: was the guy and everyone was looking for him those

736
00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:38,920
Speaker 4: six weeks, right, it was his little secret, and I

737
00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 4: don't think he I don't think he wanted to give

738
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,439
Speaker 4: that up. And once he gave that secret up, like yes,

739
00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 4: he pled guilty, I think that's when his world started

740
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 4: to collapse in on itself, in and of itself, and

741
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:51,879
Speaker 4: then of course he goes to prison and loses all

742
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 4: control and he's spiraling. I think, yeah, I think that

743
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:59,919
Speaker 4: secret made him feel powerful, like everyone's looking for.

744
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 2: Me, and everybody was by the way everybody was. I

745
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:05,440
Speaker 2: would have to imagine. And this is an experience I

746
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:09,640
Speaker 2: will never have, and I've had most experiences, but good

747
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 2: and bad. The feeling when all the dust has settled

748
00:41:13,880 --> 00:41:17,719
Speaker 2: and you are alone in a cell to really think

749
00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:21,439
Speaker 2: about what you have done and nobody's asking you how

750
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,080
Speaker 2: you are, nobody's checking in on you. You don't have access

751
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 2: to your telephone to be able to call mom and

752
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 2: dad or whomever to like talk you off a ledge.

753
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 2: Imagine all of that narcissism and all of that psychosis.

754
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 2: And maybe there's drugs involved whatever. I'm not saying that

755
00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: there were drugs involved in Brian's case there it doesn't

756
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,360
Speaker 2: appear that there were, but he was an addict previously

757
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 2: though true. Fair fair, fair, I don't believe that there

758
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 2: were drugs in his system. They have the time of

759
00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 2: the murders. It wasn't like a frenzied drug fueled prime

760
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 2: that we know of. That we know of exactly, but again,

761
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 2: and the adrenaline is running through you and now it's

762
00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 2: gone and you got to sit with yourself for eternity.

763
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,759
Speaker 2: It is a place I do not envy.

764
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 3: At all, Stephanie. I love that image of literally the

765
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,680
Speaker 3: clink and the silence and just you know, act out

766
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 3: in haste and repent at your leisure.

767
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 2: Bka very well said, I think about that with Rob

768
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,440
Speaker 2: Reiner and Michelle Reiner's son. You know, assuming that there

769
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:32,759
Speaker 2: were drugs involved, those drugs start to wear off. That's

770
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:35,600
Speaker 2: not fun, right, talk about it? Come down and it

771
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 2: starts hitting you what you've what you've actually flashbacks? What

772
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,960
Speaker 2: does that mean? The first night of Ponka, you're at

773
00:42:41,960 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 2: the holidays, like I don't even know if they were

774
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 2: Jewish or not, but this is the kind of stuff

775
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 2: if you believe in heaven and hell, like this is

776
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 2: not a happy ending for your eternity. Nick Reiner allegedly,

777
00:42:54,480 --> 00:42:56,319
Speaker 2: can we did I see?

778
00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:01,399
Speaker 4: Michelle Obama? Was it is it Stephen Corbey.

779
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:05,160
Speaker 2: Which Jimmy Kimmel tonight, they were supposed to meet with

780
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:10,960
Speaker 2: the Runners that night, Michelle Sunday. Sunday they were supposed.

781
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 4: To go over to the house or something in that vein. Yes,

782
00:43:14,760 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 4: Michelle and Barack. Wow, yeah, no the Obama's I swear.

783
00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:24,680
Speaker 2: They were supposed to see them the day that they died.

784
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 5: Wow.

785
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 8: Wow.

786
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 4: Something you just said triggered me and I was like,

787
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:33,280
Speaker 4: oh my god. I saw this snippet of her speaking

788
00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 4: on this on this talk show.

789
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 2: Like talk about a sliding door. You know, again, this

790
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 2: is what I think about with Brian Comber. You're like,

791
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 2: what if he had just slept in that day? What

792
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 2: if he had, you know, he got a cold or

793
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 2: got strapped throat, Like, would this have just like run

794
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:51,680
Speaker 2: its course or was it inevitable? Certainly those four specific

795
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 2: young adults, Ethan Maddie, you know, Hayley, it's like when

796
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,600
Speaker 2: heart gets ripped out because the holidays for them and Xana.

797
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:02,160
Speaker 2: You know, maybe it would have been different people, but

798
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 2: is it possible that maybe he would have cooled off

799
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 2: and the crime never would have happened. Same for Nick Reiner,

800
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:13,279
Speaker 2: maybe if he had just you know, just had a

801
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,280
Speaker 2: different day. Maybe it was raining that day and therefore

802
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 2: he stayed in bed longer, or maybe he skipped exactly,

803
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:24,239
Speaker 2: came down with strep throat, and like just getting through

804
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 2: that one little stint of time would have been the

805
00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:29,480
Speaker 2: difference between life and death. You know.

806
00:44:29,680 --> 00:44:33,960
Speaker 4: It isn't that like an effect, Like isn't there like a.

807
00:44:33,640 --> 00:44:38,240
Speaker 2: Sliding sliding door? I remember my father used to always

808
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 2: make notice of that that he was a big reader.

809
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,440
Speaker 2: Every morning he would read all the papers and sometimes

810
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:45,239
Speaker 2: there would be something very tragic that happened, and he

811
00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 2: would always say, if they had just you know, gotten

812
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 2: in the car five minutes later, they had just you know,

813
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,320
Speaker 2: if somebody had just called and they got I think.

814
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 4: About that with the coburger and the door dash driver,

815
00:44:58,640 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 4: she could.

816
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,279
Speaker 2: Have lost her life. It could have been just she

817
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:03,720
Speaker 2: was minutes so or could.

818
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:04,799
Speaker 4: She have scared him all off?

819
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 2: She scared either way.

820
00:45:06,960 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, butterfly effect, that's the butterfly effect.

821
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:13,160
Speaker 4: But is that the butterfly effect? I thought the butterfly

822
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:13,959
Speaker 4: effect is like.

823
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:16,000
Speaker 2: A ripple.

824
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:21,440
Speaker 3: You do an action and then impact doors.

825
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 4: Maybe I don't know, let us know, give us a call.

826
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 4: Eight and eight thirty one Bread I think there's Yeah,

827
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 4: by the way, I want to know.

828
00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do too. I think a sliding door is

829
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,399
Speaker 2: more that you can choose one adventure versus the other. Like, oh,

830
00:45:33,440 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 2: my goodness, had I not gotten on that train, I

831
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:38,319
Speaker 2: never would have met my soon to be husbands. It

832
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 2: was just because I was mooning late that day, I

833
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:43,839
Speaker 2: hopped on a different train than I normally would have,

834
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 2: and then I met the love of my life.

835
00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:47,759
Speaker 4: And then a butterfly effect is a butterfly flaps its

836
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 4: wings and a reptile was born in.

837
00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 2: I don't know.

838
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,840
Speaker 3: Had I not broken down in tears at a tempt

839
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 3: job when I was twenty one years old and lost

840
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:04,160
Speaker 3: the job that day getting another temp job, I wouldn't

841
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 3: have met my husband.

842
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 2: Oh many years later.

843
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:13,399
Speaker 3: Yeah really, yes, that absolutely yeah?

844
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 2: Anyway, stick around.

845
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 3: Coming up at the top of the hour, investigators uncover

846
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 3: something unexpected at the property tied to Pop singer David.

847
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,560
Speaker 3: There are new claims that cast a darker light on

848
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,680
Speaker 3: the cruise ship death of eighteen year old Anna Kepner.

849
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:30,719
Speaker 3: And we'd love to hear from you, so give us

850
00:46:30,760 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 3: a call eight at eight three to one Crime Keep

851
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 3: it here, True Crime Tonight We're talking true crime all

852
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:36,320
Speaker 3: the time.

853
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,680
Speaker 2: Welcome back to true Crime tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

854
00:46:50,719 --> 00:46:54,000
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanie Leidecker here with

855
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,960
Speaker 2: Courtney Armstrong and Body move in. Welcome to the second hour.

856
00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:00,400
Speaker 2: If you've missed any of the first hour these do

857
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:03,760
Speaker 2: not fret, not even for a second. You could always

858
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 2: catch us right after as a podcast and as always

859
00:47:07,320 --> 00:47:10,160
Speaker 2: if you want to join the conversation live, Sam and

860
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,280
Speaker 2: Adam are standing by eight eight eight three one Crime,

861
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:15,759
Speaker 2: or you could always leave us a talkback. There's so

862
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 2: much to still unpack in the Anna Kepner case, the

863
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 2: eighteen year old who lost her life while a board

864
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 2: a cruise, and of course David the pop stars, So

865
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 2: we'll get to that after we hit a talkback.

866
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,479
Speaker 8: Hey, ladies, I was just wondering if you guys had

867
00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 8: a David update thing.

868
00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:40,520
Speaker 2: Oh, as a matter of to you, it was great, okay,

869
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 2: point that's my kind of girl.

870
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 4: I love it, so yes, we do. Actually, it just

871
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 4: so happens that Stephen Fisher, the private investciretor hired by

872
00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 4: the landlord of the pop singer of the murder suspect David,

873
00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,320
Speaker 4: revealed that he discovered in Do you guys remember a

874
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 4: few months ago we were talking about this, you know,

875
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 4: farm type equipment that they had done at the property, which.

876
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:10,840
Speaker 2: Courtney's been asking about this. Yeah, yes, items that you

877
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:12,400
Speaker 2: would expect to see on a farm.

878
00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:12,759
Speaker 3: Yeah.

879
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:14,280
Speaker 2: Not in the Hollywood Hills.

880
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:18,680
Speaker 4: I think is the so well, Steve Fisher posted today

881
00:48:18,719 --> 00:48:20,600
Speaker 4: on Twitter. I was up at like four and five

882
00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 4: in the morning and I was like, oh my god,

883
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:26,320
Speaker 4: oh my god. Well he posted that what they found

884
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 4: was this unused burn cage incinerator on David's property. For

885
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,040
Speaker 4: those who you know aren't familiar date Pop Singer David

886
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,280
Speaker 4: is a suspect in connection with the death of fourteen

887
00:48:40,320 --> 00:48:44,040
Speaker 4: year old Celeste Rivas Hernandez, whose remains were found in

888
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,799
Speaker 4: a tesla registered to the Pop Singer on September eighth

889
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 4: of twenty twenty five, so a few months ago now.

890
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 4: So far no charges have been filed, although a grand

891
00:48:54,200 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 4: jury has reportedly met and reviewed the case evidence. So

892
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 4: Steve Fisher, the private investigator hired by the landlord finds

893
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 4: us burn cage.

894
00:49:03,960 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 3: Okay, now are you about to explain with a bird cage?

895
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 2: Yes, it is the scariest two words like that bird

896
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:14,880
Speaker 2: cage a burn you are and you are in.

897
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:19,319
Speaker 4: It's like a little incinerator. And what's important to know

898
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,720
Speaker 4: out of all this is that this, this specific burn

899
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 4: cage burns at approximately sixteen hundred degrees. Okay, so that's

900
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:33,919
Speaker 4: how hot it gets in this burn cage. Guess how

901
00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:39,960
Speaker 4: much it takes to cremate humans. Guess about that sixteen

902
00:49:40,040 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 4: hundred about one hundred degrees.

903
00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, it's less to burn a body in

904
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 2: an intrator. Why would you have an incinerator, I will.

905
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 4: That's a good question. Now it was in a box

906
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:56,040
Speaker 4: he put. Now see Fisher, you know he's on x

907
00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:59,399
Speaker 4: You can follow him at s F Underscore Investigates, and

908
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:01,960
Speaker 4: he he's a private investigator. He was hired by the

909
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 4: landlord of the property to investigate what the heck happened

910
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 4: at his house.

911
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:08,719
Speaker 2: You know, the probably can't rent it anymore. Remember it

912
00:50:08,760 --> 00:50:12,319
Speaker 2: was twenty thousand dollars a month. Yeah, and I'm sure

913
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:13,720
Speaker 2: it's vacant at this point.

914
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 4: So I'm going to read what date, what Steve Fisher wrote,

915
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 4: and then I'm just going to read a paragraph, and

916
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:23,240
Speaker 4: then we're going to chat. Okay, okay, Although my words

917
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 4: have been misquoted by some What I actually said about

918
00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:29,839
Speaker 4: certain items found at this address was that they were

919
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 4: items you expect to find on a farm rather than

920
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 4: in a home in the Hollywood Hills. One of those

921
00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:40,799
Speaker 4: items was a burn cage incinerator advertised to burn at

922
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 4: sixteen hundred degrees. Human cremations are typically performed at approximately

923
00:50:45,680 --> 00:50:50,279
Speaker 4: fourteen hundred degrees. An incinerator is not legal to use

924
00:50:50,320 --> 00:50:54,280
Speaker 4: within city limits and serves no legitimate purpose as at

925
00:50:54,440 --> 00:50:56,880
Speaker 4: a residential property in the Hollywood Hills.

926
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 5: So it's not even illegal. You can't even know.

927
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 4: It's not even something that you can have.

928
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:06,879
Speaker 2: So is the idea that perhaps they put Celeste, her

929
00:51:06,920 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 2: sweet little body in the front which is the front

930
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,920
Speaker 2: trunk of their tesla, of his tesla, and maybe the

931
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,839
Speaker 2: plan was to remove her and incinerate her, but then

932
00:51:17,960 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 2: the car got towed. Is that possibly?

933
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 4: Possibly? We don't know when this burn cage was purchased.

934
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 3: I was going to say, that would be so interesting

935
00:51:31,200 --> 00:51:34,120
Speaker 3: to know, or because it could go many different ways,

936
00:51:34,160 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 3: it could be exactly what you said, Stephanie, although keep

937
00:51:37,520 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 3: in mind it had been out on the street. I

938
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:44,279
Speaker 3: feel like most people would assume, especially we're in that

939
00:51:44,320 --> 00:51:47,480
Speaker 3: location the Hollywood Hills, that they'd be towed immediately, you

940
00:51:47,520 --> 00:51:50,319
Speaker 3: would think, versus the length of time that they were

941
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:51,719
Speaker 3: allowed to stay there.

942
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 2: Or you would go get the car right away if

943
00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:56,520
Speaker 2: it had been towed and you realized that the car

944
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:58,840
Speaker 2: that you stuffed a body in has been towed, you

945
00:51:58,880 --> 00:52:03,120
Speaker 2: would go to the toe yard asap before the odor

946
00:52:03,280 --> 00:52:05,880
Speaker 2: really kicked in. Or maybe you would be too afraid to.

947
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 3: Yes, I was just gonna say, I'm jumping in and

948
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:14,480
Speaker 3: trying to apply release, apply logic to lunacy.

949
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:16,080
Speaker 2: I'm like, wouldn't you think?

950
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 3: And it's like that is if you are thinking real,

951
00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 3: you know, logical, and not a lot of this.

952
00:52:23,320 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 4: So the next part of the tweet is some will

953
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 4: argue that this item was intended as a prop for

954
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 4: a video. If that were the case, it raises several

955
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 4: obvious questions. Why would a fifty five pound burn cage

956
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,360
Speaker 4: be delivered to a private residence instead of directly to

957
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:43,799
Speaker 4: a prop designer or production house. Now, I saved this

958
00:52:43,840 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 4: one specifically for you guys, Courtney and Stephanie and Taha.

959
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 4: You guys have worked in production for many years?

960
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,680
Speaker 2: What do you think about that? I agree, I agree

961
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 2: with that assessment. I mean, why would you if you're

962
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 2: not going to be actually you do you burn wood

963
00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 2: in it or something? Is there any other use other

964
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 2: than bodies? I think it's.

965
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:06,800
Speaker 4: Mainly cremated like rash, Like people that live in rural areas,

966
00:53:07,160 --> 00:53:09,359
Speaker 4: you know, have burn barrels and things like that.

967
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:11,439
Speaker 5: I think it's but I think even if it's for

968
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 5: a video, whatever it's going to be, you would send

969
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,240
Speaker 5: it to a production area.

970
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:16,640
Speaker 4: Send it to the production right.

971
00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:19,760
Speaker 5: You wouldn't have it at your home. There's no logical.

972
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:22,279
Speaker 3: Also, I mean, Devil's Advocate and we don't need to

973
00:53:22,280 --> 00:53:24,360
Speaker 3: dig deeper into the story. But Stephanie, I feel like

974
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 3: we were painting wooden hammers.

975
00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:29,320
Speaker 2: Well, we were, definitely. I mean there have been minimal

976
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 2: times that delivered to my house. Yeah, I Studios was

977
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:38,480
Speaker 2: started around my one bedroom apartment, two better apartment, so yeah,

978
00:53:39,000 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 2: but we were greeting on a curve back then in

979
00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 2: the early days. This is a really famous guy living

980
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:46,919
Speaker 2: in a twenty thousand dollars a month house. That's no joke.

981
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,800
Speaker 2: And let's remember, you know, even sending something to a set,

982
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:53,520
Speaker 2: it's all expensive, right, So this is a heavy piece

983
00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 2: of machinery. I'm assuming it's got to have some weight

984
00:53:57,160 --> 00:53:59,560
Speaker 2: and growth to it. So it's not the kind of

985
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 2: thing that I would want to deal with and have

986
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 2: moved because that's probably another thousand bucks on top of it.

987
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 5: Right, ship it to your house and then back and forth.

988
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:08,000
Speaker 5: And to your point, it is big. I had to

989
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:11,959
Speaker 5: look up a picture because I've never seen a burn cage. Well,

990
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 5: I mean I was pretty ky, but for the audience,

991
00:54:14,239 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 5: I hadn't seen one. Yeah, right, to describe one. It's

992
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 5: almost like a big oversized trash can, if you will, circular,

993
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:25,840
Speaker 5: and it looks, you know, sort of round metal, really large,

994
00:54:25,880 --> 00:54:27,759
Speaker 5: but it looks like it could be like almost four

995
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,560
Speaker 5: to four feet tall. So it's a pretty big item

996
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 5: just for people who don't know what well.

997
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:35,719
Speaker 4: Steve Fisher goes on to say, why would it be

998
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:40,960
Speaker 4: ordered before departing on an extended world tour? And why

999
00:54:41,120 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 4: was it never used in any video production? It is

1000
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 4: also this is important. It is also important to note

1001
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 4: that there were other items. I'm sorry, let me get

1002
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 4: it right. It is also important to note that there

1003
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:57,600
Speaker 4: were additional items presented or present that could be used

1004
00:54:57,640 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 4: in conjunction with the burn cage. Ah, we don't know

1005
00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:04,720
Speaker 4: what those items, what is that what would be used

1006
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:08,240
Speaker 4: in coordination with the burn case. I listen, I almost

1007
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 4: wanted to email them and be like, Bro Spilett.

1008
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 2: Tell me.

1009
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:16,600
Speaker 3: Right now, right now, this p I really writes on

1010
00:55:16,640 --> 00:55:17,400
Speaker 3: a cliffhanger.

1011
00:55:17,480 --> 00:55:21,960
Speaker 4: He's very controversial, but like I said, he's undeniably effective,

1012
00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:23,040
Speaker 4: Like he really is.

1013
00:55:23,360 --> 00:55:26,080
Speaker 2: So this is the same guy that also was served

1014
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:29,959
Speaker 2: kind of a subpoena handwritten and chose not to go to.

1015
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:32,480
Speaker 4: Court that well, he was searching for a missing a

1016
00:55:32,520 --> 00:55:36,240
Speaker 4: missing man in Georgia at the time. He couldn't just leave,

1017
00:55:36,520 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 4: you know, like and go back anyway. He's very dedicated

1018
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,480
Speaker 4: to missing persons cases. That's like mainly his focus, and

1019
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:45,040
Speaker 4: he does a lot of search and rescue. He's like

1020
00:55:45,080 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 4: SAR certified and stuff. So okay, now he goes on

1021
00:55:49,440 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 4: and he says, to be to be clear, this burn

1022
00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:56,120
Speaker 4: cage was not used. It was still new and in

1023
00:55:56,160 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 4: the box. However, given that Celestie of Hernandez mains were

1024
00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 4: ultimately found in the Tesla front, the presence of an

1025
00:56:04,160 --> 00:56:08,880
Speaker 4: incinerator at the same residence associated with that vehicle necessarily

1026
00:56:08,960 --> 00:56:10,320
Speaker 4: raises questions about intent.

1027
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:13,879
Speaker 2: If you're just joining us.

1028
00:56:14,000 --> 00:56:16,960
Speaker 3: We are talking about the fact that Stephen Fisher, the

1029
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:21,200
Speaker 3: private investigator hired by the landlord of pop singer murder

1030
00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:26,279
Speaker 3: suspect David, has revealed he discovered and unused it's called

1031
00:56:26,280 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 3: a burn cage incinerator on pop star David's property.

1032
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 2: And that's that is, as you say, we're right in.

1033
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:43,480
Speaker 4: So he goes on to this is really kind of

1034
00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 4: flabbergasted to me.

1035
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 2: This part.

1036
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 4: He goes on to say the burn cage was not

1037
00:56:50,080 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 4: taken during the search warrant, and because it was not used,

1038
00:56:54,520 --> 00:56:58,400
Speaker 4: it appears it's not of importance to any possible criminal investigation.

1039
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,360
Speaker 4: But we think it's important context, even if not criminal.

1040
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:04,839
Speaker 5: Yes, I'm with him one hundred.

1041
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 2: That's like, why has there been no arrest? I mean, honestly,

1042
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:12,920
Speaker 2: we have seen so many trials, We have seen so

1043
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 2: many arrests and action being taken very swiftly. Now we're

1044
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 2: even seeing it with Nick Reiner. Let's assume that there's

1045
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 2: a confession or something allegedly allegedly allegedly. You know, they

1046
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:26,280
Speaker 2: are front and center, there's a press conference. We see

1047
00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:31,960
Speaker 2: you know, the hawkman, the da he like had all

1048
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 2: of the people that work in the DA's department all

1049
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 2: lined up for a press conference. They're like not playing

1050
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:40,840
Speaker 2: any games, and they're like, we were looking for justice here.

1051
00:57:41,120 --> 00:57:46,120
Speaker 2: Why is Celeste Reeves Hernandez not getting the same level.

1052
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:51,120
Speaker 4: Because because there was so much time in between her death,

1053
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:55,160
Speaker 4: her death and you know, her discovery, there was so

1054
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 4: much time to clean evidence, hide evidence. They can't just

1055
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:01,040
Speaker 4: arrest somebody because they think it did something right.

1056
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 2: No, I know you always say that, and it always

1057
00:58:02,880 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 2: sounds so right when you say it.

1058
00:58:04,840 --> 00:58:09,440
Speaker 4: But I'm like, why is there no arrest from the rooftops?

1059
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:12,160
Speaker 4: I know, me too, and I have to go, Okay, body, chill,

1060
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 4: chill out. You know, this one's really important. This is

1061
00:58:14,840 --> 00:58:19,120
Speaker 4: the lessons. The burn cage and other related items were

1062
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:23,920
Speaker 4: delivered to the residents under a false name, although the

1063
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 4: deliveries were accepted at the property.

1064
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 2: So curious what the false name was? Me too, I

1065
00:58:31,800 --> 00:58:34,360
Speaker 2: am too, And how many people were at this property?

1066
00:58:34,480 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 5: So that's a good question.

1067
00:58:36,200 --> 00:58:38,360
Speaker 2: You know there were some people, you know. Obviously we

1068
00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:41,000
Speaker 2: know that the grand jury had interviewed some of his

1069
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:45,280
Speaker 2: closest allies, meaning David the pop Stars manager or whomever

1070
00:58:45,320 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 2: his business associates were for the tour specifically. We discussed

1071
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 2: that already, so you know, these are people that had

1072
00:58:52,920 --> 00:58:54,960
Speaker 2: maybe been in and out of that home. In fact,

1073
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 2: one of them, if I'm not mistaken, was actually named

1074
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:01,720
Speaker 2: on the lease, like David I think was living manager. Yes, yeah,

1075
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 2: the manager. It was his name on the actual right lease.

1076
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,240
Speaker 2: The assumption is that David the pop star was paying

1077
00:59:08,320 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 2: for the lease or certainly that's where he was living.

1078
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:14,360
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was was this one of those places

1079
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,560
Speaker 2: that there was a lot of activity, people in and out,

1080
00:59:16,600 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 2: Were people partying all the time? Was their drugs involved?

1081
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 2: You know, why was Celeste Revs Hernandez at fourteen years

1082
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:27,400
Speaker 2: old out and about in the Hollywood Hills so much

1083
00:59:27,720 --> 00:59:29,320
Speaker 2: and not in school? The poor thing?

1084
00:59:29,760 --> 00:59:33,880
Speaker 4: Right? And you know the grand jury has stuff happened

1085
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 4: last week and to your what you were saying, Stephanie,

1086
00:59:37,760 --> 00:59:40,440
Speaker 4: is that you know, his associates were being you know,

1087
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 4: interviewed by the grand jury and questioned by the attorneys,

1088
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:48,680
Speaker 4: and you know that's all very secret. So we don't

1089
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 4: know what happened, but we do know that when when

1090
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:57,000
Speaker 4: Robert Morgan Roth he's David's manager, and I think he's

1091
00:59:57,040 --> 01:00:01,000
Speaker 4: the guy on the lease. I think there's another guy

1092
01:00:01,080 --> 01:00:04,080
Speaker 4: named James Marshall, I think his name is, and he

1093
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:05,800
Speaker 4: it might be him, but I think it's I think

1094
01:00:05,800 --> 01:00:09,720
Speaker 4: it's Robert. When Robert got done testifying it from the

1095
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:12,440
Speaker 4: grand jury, he went out into the hallowing, got on

1096
01:00:12,480 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 4: his cell phone and was talking loud enough for people

1097
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 4: to hear. And he was on the phone with somebody

1098
01:00:20,600 --> 01:00:24,600
Speaker 4: and he described the questioning from the prosecutor, Beth Silverman

1099
01:00:24,640 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 4: about why he didn't call police, and he said it

1100
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:30,439
Speaker 4: was very pushy and said it and you know, he said,

1101
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:33,640
Speaker 4: I feel like I didn't have the responsibility to do

1102
01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:36,960
Speaker 4: that and I just wanted to cure, you know, continue

1103
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:41,200
Speaker 4: on with the tour. M So it's very it's very

1104
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:46,720
Speaker 4: you know, like call the police about what about the

1105
01:00:46,800 --> 01:00:51,400
Speaker 4: relationship with the mind about or that there's you know,

1106
01:00:51,920 --> 01:00:56,560
Speaker 4: this fourteen year old girl, you know, decomposing in his tesla.

1107
01:00:59,240 --> 01:01:01,080
Speaker 2: It really is crazy making.

1108
01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:04,760
Speaker 3: On the one hand, well it's crazy making with two

1109
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:08,640
Speaker 3: hands that there has not been an arrest given this time.

1110
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,560
Speaker 3: But they I was going to say, they have to

1111
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 3: get it right, and obviously they have not.

1112
01:01:16,760 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 2: It's our protection in this country, right exactly.

1113
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:20,000
Speaker 4: It's our protection.

1114
01:01:20,320 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 2: Give you a break, though this guy can be at large,

1115
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 2: like just killing people. If in fact, whether it's him

1116
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:29,600
Speaker 2: or somebody else, whoever this is who committed this horrible crime,

1117
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:34,160
Speaker 2: they technically are roaming amongst us or could absolutely be

1118
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 2: a fright, you know, a flight risk. You know, I

1119
01:01:36,360 --> 01:01:39,080
Speaker 2: think of everybody you know, by Brown University. My heart

1120
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:41,800
Speaker 2: is so broken, how scary that they don't have anybody

1121
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:45,480
Speaker 2: in custody. So there's a killer at large. There's a

1122
01:01:45,600 --> 01:01:49,440
Speaker 2: killer then at large in the Hollywood Hills allegedly, allegedly,

1123
01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,960
Speaker 2: allegedly or somebody who's capable of, you know, shoving a

1124
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:55,800
Speaker 2: fourteen year old, fifteen year old body into the front

1125
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:57,880
Speaker 2: chunk of a car and letting it just rot there.

1126
01:01:58,600 --> 01:02:01,080
Speaker 2: Why does that person get to walk free, even if

1127
01:02:01,120 --> 01:02:03,800
Speaker 2: there is double jeopardy bringing him in for something. But

1128
01:02:04,560 --> 01:02:07,120
Speaker 2: I do think much more needs to be made of this,

1129
01:02:07,240 --> 01:02:09,400
Speaker 2: and I don't feel like it's making the headlines every

1130
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:10,160
Speaker 2: day anymore.

1131
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:12,960
Speaker 5: I agree, it's kind of shifted to the side.

1132
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:15,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we will keep you up to date as

1133
01:02:15,120 --> 01:02:19,320
Speaker 3: any new information comes out. And after the break, we've

1134
01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:22,000
Speaker 3: got some troubling new claims that have surfaced in the

1135
01:02:22,040 --> 01:02:25,360
Speaker 3: cruisehip death of eighteen year old Anna Kepner.

1136
01:02:26,240 --> 01:02:28,080
Speaker 2: We also have some talkbacks.

1137
01:02:28,600 --> 01:02:31,040
Speaker 3: Keep it here True Crime Tonight, We're talking true crime

1138
01:02:31,120 --> 01:02:31,960
Speaker 3: all the time.

1139
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:45,760
Speaker 2: Welcome back to true Crime Tonight on iHeartRadio. We're talking

1140
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:49,600
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm Stephanieleidecker here with Courtney Armstrong,

1141
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:53,320
Speaker 2: Body move in, and of course producer Taha and Sam

1142
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:56,600
Speaker 2: and Adam are in the control room. Man oh man.

1143
01:02:56,640 --> 01:02:59,560
Speaker 2: There's been a lot of tragic stories to cover, of course,

1144
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 2: include being Anna Kepner her you know, tragic, tragic death

1145
01:03:04,320 --> 01:03:07,280
Speaker 2: upboard a cruise ship just eighteen years old. I think

1146
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 2: we have a talk back relating to Anna Keepner. Let's

1147
01:03:10,120 --> 01:03:12,000
Speaker 2: go to that first.

1148
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:15,760
Speaker 9: Hi, this is Marisa from Maryland thinking about the bar

1149
01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:19,880
Speaker 9: hold on Anna Kepner. What if she was just laying

1150
01:03:19,920 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 9: there resting and the perpetrator just came in, rushed at

1151
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:27,960
Speaker 9: her and just put their arm on her neck. It

1152
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:29,680
Speaker 9: doesn't seem like it would be very hard to get

1153
01:03:29,680 --> 01:03:34,280
Speaker 9: into that position to just surprise someone like that.

1154
01:03:35,640 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 2: Thanks by, I don't know that I disagree, so, you know,

1155
01:03:39,000 --> 01:03:41,640
Speaker 2: but I'm not the expert in terms of these types

1156
01:03:41,680 --> 01:03:43,880
Speaker 2: of things, but how they described it was kind of

1157
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 2: like a what's it called a mechanical choke hold, like

1158
01:03:46,600 --> 01:03:51,680
Speaker 2: a mechanical infixation. Right, so when seeing it demonstrated, it

1159
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:54,200
Speaker 2: seems like a pretty straightforward, like the kind of chokehold

1160
01:03:54,280 --> 01:03:56,680
Speaker 2: you put in, you put somebody in if you're like

1161
01:03:56,840 --> 01:04:01,440
Speaker 2: rascaling around or if you're a rough housing basically headlock.

1162
01:04:01,480 --> 01:04:02,320
Speaker 2: That's exactly right.

1163
01:04:02,880 --> 01:04:03,120
Speaker 4: Now.

1164
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:06,240
Speaker 2: Courtney gave a very interesting tip about this and Body,

1165
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:08,640
Speaker 2: I think you were actually the expert on this, so

1166
01:04:09,440 --> 01:04:12,720
Speaker 2: I would have thought it wasn't very hard if you

1167
01:04:12,800 --> 01:04:16,360
Speaker 2: have somebody in a choke hold. Courtney said, it isn't

1168
01:04:16,400 --> 01:04:19,680
Speaker 2: that hard if you don't have your your like a

1169
01:04:19,720 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 2: net what does it called your chin tuck or.

1170
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:26,600
Speaker 3: Your chin so like in this scenario that our talkbacker

1171
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:31,480
Speaker 3: left body. If you remember when Joseph and he was saying,

1172
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 3: it doesn't necessarily need to be a choke hold, which

1173
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:36,240
Speaker 3: is from behind as we can see, but as you said,

1174
01:04:36,320 --> 01:04:40,320
Speaker 3: from above, and if you get after someone who's sleeping

1175
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:43,520
Speaker 3: or not expecting it and get without being graphic, I

1176
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:45,960
Speaker 3: mean this is something you learn in self defense. If

1177
01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 3: you get straight to someone's throat, that's an apply enough pressure,

1178
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 3: Like Joseph Morgan said, the time really depends upon how

1179
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:57,640
Speaker 3: much like pressure per inch is being put.

1180
01:04:57,520 --> 01:04:59,840
Speaker 4: On per inch.

1181
01:05:00,000 --> 01:05:00,680
Speaker 2: I think that's what he say.

1182
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:04,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, And so in the case of coming up on someone,

1183
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:08,080
Speaker 3: it would just be a large and easy target versus

1184
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:11,640
Speaker 3: if you're fighting and you put your chin down, which

1185
01:05:11,680 --> 01:05:14,000
Speaker 3: is what all self defense. If you are ever grabbed

1186
01:05:14,360 --> 01:05:18,440
Speaker 3: from behind, you put your chin down because it's actually

1187
01:05:18,600 --> 01:05:22,080
Speaker 3: very hard to get an arm in there. I thought

1188
01:05:22,080 --> 01:05:24,320
Speaker 3: that was a really interesting tip. I had never heard

1189
01:05:24,360 --> 01:05:26,880
Speaker 3: that before. I was like, Court, I don't even know

1190
01:05:26,920 --> 01:05:28,760
Speaker 3: that that ever occurred to me. And that's a good

1191
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:30,960
Speaker 3: little safety tip if you ever find yourself in a

1192
01:05:31,000 --> 01:05:36,080
Speaker 3: situation keeping your chin down. Just to add to that,

1193
01:05:36,360 --> 01:05:39,160
Speaker 3: keep your chin down if you're facing exphyxiation.

1194
01:05:39,600 --> 01:05:43,160
Speaker 2: And also, do not get in the car. Yeah, right,

1195
01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:47,560
Speaker 2: for your life. Scream yell, make yourself throw up, whatever

1196
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:51,280
Speaker 2: it is. Do not silently. If you can get in

1197
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:54,560
Speaker 2: a vehicle, your your chance of living goes down fifty percent.

1198
01:05:54,600 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 2: They say, wow, I digress, But that's just like a

1199
01:05:58,640 --> 01:06:00,600
Speaker 2: harrowing thought. I feel like if somebody had a gun

1200
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:01,880
Speaker 2: to my head that would get in the car, I

1201
01:06:01,920 --> 01:06:05,760
Speaker 2: would very quickly get in the car. And it's exactly

1202
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:07,680
Speaker 2: what you don't want to do. You want to fight

1203
01:06:07,760 --> 01:06:13,080
Speaker 2: to the death and get loud, loud, loud, loud, and bite,

1204
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:18,400
Speaker 2: oh bite, you know whatever desperation brings. If you can

1205
01:06:18,440 --> 01:06:21,800
Speaker 2: make yourself throw up, that's also a technique that about.

1206
01:06:22,840 --> 01:06:25,240
Speaker 2: You know, like all the anxiety can maybe makes that easier,

1207
01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:27,960
Speaker 2: but then people get so grossed out that they don't

1208
01:06:27,960 --> 01:06:28,840
Speaker 2: really want to deal with me.

1209
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:30,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1210
01:06:30,280 --> 01:06:32,880
Speaker 2: Or urinating on yourself, yeah.

1211
01:06:33,560 --> 01:06:36,120
Speaker 4: My anxiety could look and save my life.

1212
01:06:36,200 --> 01:06:41,840
Speaker 2: Literally, Yeah, I'm trying to assault you in any way,

1213
01:06:43,080 --> 01:06:46,840
Speaker 2: could help me? Yes, if you can urinate on yourself,

1214
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:48,360
Speaker 2: oh a real turn off.

1215
01:06:48,480 --> 01:06:50,400
Speaker 4: Listen, I'm fifty two years old. I can I can

1216
01:06:50,520 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 4: urinate on command.

1217
01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 2: Right, So this is a tough one. So yeah, but

1218
01:06:56,840 --> 01:06:58,919
Speaker 2: you know, body, when we spoke about this the last

1219
01:06:58,960 --> 01:07:02,080
Speaker 2: time with Anna Kepner in this potential chokehold, you know,

1220
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:05,640
Speaker 2: you had made a very clear correct point that it's

1221
01:07:05,680 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 2: not very easy to suffocate a person. It's just not

1222
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 2: It takes a long time, it.

1223
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:12,680
Speaker 4: Takes a couple of minutes, it takes some time. And

1224
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:15,400
Speaker 4: you know, we had spoken with Joseph on Sunday at

1225
01:07:15,520 --> 01:07:20,080
Speaker 4: length about this actually, and he's opining that the verbiage

1226
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:26,840
Speaker 4: being used that it's basically face to face, a face

1227
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 4: to face attack and not necessarily a toe hold, and

1228
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:35,600
Speaker 4: where the forearm is being pressed in the neck.

1229
01:07:35,880 --> 01:07:38,880
Speaker 2: Which is like up against a wall or something wall

1230
01:07:39,200 --> 01:07:40,680
Speaker 2: or laying down either way.

1231
01:07:40,920 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 5: Yeah, person is on top using their forearm against you will.

1232
01:07:45,960 --> 01:07:48,240
Speaker 4: And that would you know, that would take in my

1233
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:52,920
Speaker 4: you know, very layman's terms research three to five minutes.

1234
01:07:53,640 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 2: Wow, So I think that.

1235
01:07:55,320 --> 01:07:58,720
Speaker 3: But there is also a difference between death and unconsciousness

1236
01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:02,800
Speaker 3: because you can go on you just go unconscious very quickly,

1237
01:08:02,880 --> 01:08:05,400
Speaker 3: and then you may not know that there's a problem.

1238
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:10,000
Speaker 3: You know, you can in very short seconds, like I'm

1239
01:08:10,040 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 3: actually just double checking myself and I'm on oddly New

1240
01:08:13,760 --> 01:08:18,519
Speaker 3: York City Mayor's Office Guide to Combat Domestic Violence, and

1241
01:08:18,800 --> 01:08:22,160
Speaker 3: eleven pounds of pressure placed on the neck for ten

1242
01:08:22,240 --> 01:08:23,880
Speaker 3: seconds can cause unconsciousness.

1243
01:08:24,840 --> 01:08:26,720
Speaker 2: And again I.

1244
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:29,480
Speaker 4: Think Joseph said, five is what I think he's expecting

1245
01:08:29,560 --> 01:08:31,520
Speaker 4: with this kind of choking.

1246
01:08:31,479 --> 01:08:34,639
Speaker 3: And that is also paste if it's on the jugular,

1247
01:08:34,800 --> 01:08:38,640
Speaker 3: less than five pounds for ten seconds and cause unconsciousness.

1248
01:08:38,720 --> 01:08:42,480
Speaker 4: Unconsciousness, right, and then you know, And that's why oftentimes

1249
01:08:42,520 --> 01:08:47,040
Speaker 4: you'll hear people say, why is it first agree premeditated murder?

1250
01:08:47,080 --> 01:08:50,519
Speaker 4: When this person was strenguling, you know, strangled or you know,

1251
01:08:50,640 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 4: choked out. And it's because it takes so long that

1252
01:08:54,240 --> 01:08:56,840
Speaker 4: you're thinking about it as it's happening. That's premeditation.

1253
01:08:57,400 --> 01:09:01,280
Speaker 5: So contrary to the person's the talk back, this probably

1254
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 5: wasn't an accident. It sounds like it took a little

1255
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:04,920
Speaker 5: time and effort.

1256
01:09:05,080 --> 01:09:08,280
Speaker 4: Can't imagine like if they were rough housing or you know,

1257
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:11,080
Speaker 4: something like that that you know it takes it takes

1258
01:09:11,120 --> 01:09:12,320
Speaker 4: a hot minute for this to happen.

1259
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:17,160
Speaker 2: And then to that same point, if his arm was

1260
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:21,400
Speaker 2: up against her neck allegedly, allegedly allegedly, and then within

1261
01:09:21,520 --> 01:09:26,600
Speaker 2: five to ten seconds she goes limp because she's unconscious,

1262
01:09:27,640 --> 01:09:29,519
Speaker 2: and then you continue.

1263
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:34,639
Speaker 3: On hostilian, you know, like, I have no idea this is, yeah,

1264
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:35,519
Speaker 3: throwing stuff at.

1265
01:09:35,479 --> 01:09:38,200
Speaker 2: The wall, But I really want to believe it was

1266
01:09:38,240 --> 01:09:40,920
Speaker 2: not intentional, so badly I really want to believe. I

1267
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:43,200
Speaker 2: want to believe that. I want to believe that Rob

1268
01:09:43,240 --> 01:09:47,080
Speaker 2: Reiner's son was so on drugs that he had no

1269
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:48,080
Speaker 2: idea what he was doing.

1270
01:09:49,280 --> 01:09:51,679
Speaker 4: This is true crime. Tonight on iHeartRadio, we're talking true

1271
01:09:51,680 --> 01:09:53,840
Speaker 4: crime all the time. We're right in the middle of

1272
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:57,680
Speaker 4: talking about the possibilities in the Anna Keptner case. You

1273
01:09:57,720 --> 01:09:59,479
Speaker 4: want to weigh in, give us a call eight at

1274
01:09:59,479 --> 01:10:01,599
Speaker 4: eight thirty one Crime Courtney. What's the latest update?

1275
01:10:02,640 --> 01:10:07,519
Speaker 3: Okay, So, the aunt of Florida teen Anna Kaepner has

1276
01:10:07,600 --> 01:10:10,320
Speaker 3: spoken out for what I believe is the first time,

1277
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:15,160
Speaker 3: and she says that the eighteen year old homicide victim,

1278
01:10:15,200 --> 01:10:20,320
Speaker 3: Anna Keepner was uncomfortable and quote worried about her stepbrother

1279
01:10:21,360 --> 01:10:25,680
Speaker 3: going on the carnival cruise with her. And uh the

1280
01:10:25,920 --> 01:10:30,960
Speaker 3: Anna Kaepner's stepbrother is considered a suspect in her murder

1281
01:10:32,200 --> 01:10:35,799
Speaker 3: or in her death, so authorities have not charged anyone.

1282
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 3: There's been really conflicting accounts about the victim, Anna Kaepner's

1283
01:10:42,320 --> 01:10:46,439
Speaker 3: relationship with her sixteen year old stepbrother. He is the

1284
01:10:46,439 --> 01:10:49,200
Speaker 3: one who she shared a room with on this ship.

1285
01:10:49,840 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 3: So here's the top line of what Anna's aunt has

1286
01:10:54,160 --> 01:10:58,240
Speaker 3: said is that Anna Kaepner wasn't really wanting to go

1287
01:10:58,320 --> 01:11:01,519
Speaker 3: on the trip, specifically becau because her stepbrother was going.

1288
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:07,960
Speaker 3: She also Anna's aunt claimed that Anna had felt increasingly

1289
01:11:08,040 --> 01:11:11,879
Speaker 3: uncomfortable in her own home and that the family dynamic

1290
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:15,559
Speaker 3: had been fractured long before the vacation. These were the

1291
01:11:15,600 --> 01:11:21,080
Speaker 3: ant's words, and then when when Anna's aunt said she

1292
01:11:21,280 --> 01:11:24,360
Speaker 3: learned about the sharing of the room with the stepbrother,

1293
01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:28,800
Speaker 3: what she said was Anna was not comfortable. And then

1294
01:11:28,840 --> 01:11:31,600
Speaker 3: the aunt said, oh, you only have to sleep in

1295
01:11:31,640 --> 01:11:33,240
Speaker 3: the bed at night. The rest of the time you

1296
01:11:33,280 --> 01:11:37,360
Speaker 3: can avoid him. So apparently this conversation went back and

1297
01:11:37,439 --> 01:11:38,280
Speaker 3: forth a little bit.

1298
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:43,000
Speaker 5: Just for clarity, this is the aunt on the mother's side,

1299
01:11:43,080 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 5: father's side.

1300
01:11:44,320 --> 01:11:48,320
Speaker 3: This is the maternal aunt. So which is interesting. It

1301
01:11:48,360 --> 01:11:53,200
Speaker 3: is interesting because if you guys remember, Anna Kepner's biological

1302
01:11:53,360 --> 01:11:58,280
Speaker 3: mother has been out of the picture, largely kept out

1303
01:11:58,280 --> 01:12:03,120
Speaker 3: of the picture by Annae Captain's father. But somehow Anna

1304
01:12:03,200 --> 01:12:05,880
Speaker 3: Kupner is in some touch with her aunt.

1305
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:06,360
Speaker 5: With her.

1306
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:10,200
Speaker 2: Now, keep in mind Mom and Dad, Anna's birth mother

1307
01:12:10,479 --> 01:12:13,759
Speaker 2: and her father divorced when she was fourteen years old,

1308
01:12:13,840 --> 01:12:17,040
Speaker 2: I mean four years old. Rather, Dad gets full custodies

1309
01:12:17,080 --> 01:12:20,559
Speaker 2: by understanding, Mom gets kicked out of the club. Remember

1310
01:12:20,600 --> 01:12:22,280
Speaker 2: she had to go to the funeral or the wake

1311
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:25,559
Speaker 2: in a disguise because she was told she was not

1312
01:12:25,960 --> 01:12:29,599
Speaker 2: allowed to go to her own daughter's funeral. I don't

1313
01:12:29,600 --> 01:12:32,839
Speaker 2: give a darn what the dynamic is within a family.

1314
01:12:33,560 --> 01:12:36,760
Speaker 2: Do not rob a mother or a father of going

1315
01:12:36,800 --> 01:12:40,479
Speaker 2: to their child's wake or funeral. That is a real tell,

1316
01:12:41,240 --> 01:12:46,240
Speaker 2: but again different set of circumstances, not the focus. You're sorry. However,

1317
01:12:47,280 --> 01:12:49,559
Speaker 2: so mom who's been left out of the mix has

1318
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:52,160
Speaker 2: a sister, and this sister is now weighing in. So

1319
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 2: there's obviously some understanding because remember dad's mom, Mema, Mima

1320
01:12:58,479 --> 01:13:02,360
Speaker 2: and Grandpa who were on the cruise also during this

1321
01:13:02,479 --> 01:13:08,120
Speaker 2: hideous event. They claimed that the stepbrother and Anna had

1322
01:13:08,160 --> 01:13:11,639
Speaker 2: a swimmingly wonderful relationship and they were carrying on as

1323
01:13:11,720 --> 01:13:15,400
Speaker 2: you know a blended family, as blended families do. How

1324
01:13:15,479 --> 01:13:17,679
Speaker 2: well have they've been married? How long? So the stepmother

1325
01:13:17,760 --> 01:13:20,400
Speaker 2: comes into the mix. We know Anna has a mom,

1326
01:13:21,080 --> 01:13:26,040
Speaker 2: they break up, Mom does not get custody, and dad

1327
01:13:26,080 --> 01:13:28,800
Speaker 2: takes over. So what is that for fourteen years? It's

1328
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:33,519
Speaker 2: just for your dad's care and then somewhere along the line,

1329
01:13:33,800 --> 01:13:37,920
Speaker 2: stepmom comes into the mix with her family the accused

1330
01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:41,280
Speaker 2: step son. Correct? Correct? Do we know how long ago?

1331
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:41,760
Speaker 2: That was?

1332
01:13:42,160 --> 01:13:43,519
Speaker 4: The year?

1333
01:13:43,680 --> 01:13:45,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, they were married last year. I think it was

1334
01:13:45,880 --> 01:13:50,439
Speaker 3: December of twenty twenty four. What but that's their marriage.

1335
01:13:50,520 --> 01:13:52,920
Speaker 3: I don't know, and maybe you do, your body they

1336
01:13:52,960 --> 01:13:57,080
Speaker 3: could have been dating for a day or fourteen years,

1337
01:13:57,400 --> 01:13:59,120
Speaker 3: but they were married.

1338
01:13:59,280 --> 01:14:03,360
Speaker 4: So he was made married previously to another woman and

1339
01:14:04,360 --> 01:14:07,839
Speaker 4: so this was his third marriage and they got divorced

1340
01:14:07,840 --> 01:14:10,080
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty three. Good.

1341
01:14:11,160 --> 01:14:12,559
Speaker 5: Oh, so this is really recent.

1342
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:17,160
Speaker 4: Okay, so that's my listen, that's what I understand. But

1343
01:14:17,200 --> 01:14:19,080
Speaker 4: we have to also remember too. I know I keep

1344
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:22,160
Speaker 4: bringing this this boyfriend up, but he said the similar

1345
01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:23,240
Speaker 4: things the ant said.

1346
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:25,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, totally, it is true.

1347
01:14:25,520 --> 01:14:28,519
Speaker 2: That's what the ant said. And Anna Keepner's ex boyfriend

1348
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:31,479
Speaker 2: also said that she was uncomfortable being around him.

1349
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:32,560
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1350
01:14:32,680 --> 01:14:36,280
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness. They're married for a year. And this

1351
01:14:36,439 --> 01:14:39,120
Speaker 2: level of tragedy rips this family apart.

1352
01:14:39,400 --> 01:14:48,000
Speaker 3: Come wow, yeah, and this has it has nothing to

1353
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:52,000
Speaker 3: my knowledge, to do with the circumstances of Anna Kepner's death,

1354
01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:55,480
Speaker 3: but just interesting in the family dynamic.

1355
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:58,640
Speaker 2: Part is Anna's aunt.

1356
01:14:58,800 --> 01:15:03,599
Speaker 3: What she has said is that Anna's father had falsely

1357
01:15:03,720 --> 01:15:07,200
Speaker 3: told the victim, eighteen year old Anna Kaepner, that her

1358
01:15:07,240 --> 01:15:09,360
Speaker 3: mother was not trying to contact her.

1359
01:15:10,080 --> 01:15:11,320
Speaker 2: So do you follow that?

1360
01:15:11,439 --> 01:15:15,439
Speaker 3: So Anna Kaepner believed that her biological mother was not

1361
01:15:15,520 --> 01:15:17,519
Speaker 3: trying to get into any contact with.

1362
01:15:17,479 --> 01:15:19,800
Speaker 2: Her, but she lied about it.

1363
01:15:19,840 --> 01:15:23,200
Speaker 3: But meanwhile she was because dad with the full custody

1364
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:25,200
Speaker 3: was lying about it.

1365
01:15:25,680 --> 01:15:31,160
Speaker 4: Oh wow, that literally breaks my heart. It's not emotional,

1366
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:34,200
Speaker 4: like this poor girl died thinking her mom didn't want

1367
01:15:34,240 --> 01:15:35,480
Speaker 4: anything to do with her.

1368
01:15:35,560 --> 01:15:37,439
Speaker 5: And mom is trying to reach out and now has

1369
01:15:37,479 --> 01:15:39,240
Speaker 5: to put on a wig. It makes my heart in

1370
01:15:39,280 --> 01:15:42,000
Speaker 5: disguise to go to her own daughter's funeral, didn't even

1371
01:15:42,080 --> 01:15:45,160
Speaker 5: find out about the death, Like I'm not a Google

1372
01:15:45,200 --> 01:15:48,920
Speaker 5: search to find out now that that is that.

1373
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:51,880
Speaker 2: Makes me want to cry too. No, it's very sad.

1374
01:15:52,080 --> 01:15:54,559
Speaker 2: It was like a really bad relationship and you know,

1375
01:15:54,920 --> 01:15:57,559
Speaker 2: you know, pocks in all the houses like what to

1376
01:15:57,680 --> 01:16:01,040
Speaker 2: what end? Can you not love your child more than

1377
01:16:01,560 --> 01:16:04,439
Speaker 2: hating your your exx well?

1378
01:16:04,439 --> 01:16:06,240
Speaker 4: And we don't know though, I mean, we don't know

1379
01:16:06,280 --> 01:16:09,719
Speaker 4: if that's do we know that's true though, Like I mean.

1380
01:16:09,600 --> 01:16:15,080
Speaker 3: This is according to Anna Kaepner's aunt, who is the

1381
01:16:15,120 --> 01:16:18,639
Speaker 3: sister of Anna Kaepner's biological mother.

1382
01:16:18,800 --> 01:16:20,400
Speaker 2: So this is what she pretty.

1383
01:16:20,160 --> 01:16:21,280
Speaker 5: Reliable so to be.

1384
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:28,280
Speaker 3: But it's sad. To my knowledge, Anna Kapner's father hasn't

1385
01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:34,240
Speaker 3: said any responding to this. Yeah, so it's it's a

1386
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:38,000
Speaker 3: complicated and you know that's really sad. Yeah, it is,

1387
01:16:38,320 --> 01:16:40,960
Speaker 3: And it just kind of adds to the layers since,

1388
01:16:41,000 --> 01:16:45,160
Speaker 3: as you mentioned, Stephanie, the grandparents who were on the cruise,

1389
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:48,639
Speaker 3: you know, they said thick as thieves, and so did

1390
01:16:50,040 --> 01:16:50,880
Speaker 3: the stepmother.

1391
01:16:51,160 --> 01:16:55,840
Speaker 4: Maybe you know, Anna presented, Maybe Anna presented to her

1392
01:16:55,880 --> 01:16:59,840
Speaker 4: father's side of the family. You know, everything's peachy, her

1393
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:02,920
Speaker 4: mother's side of the family, you know, and friends or whatever.

1394
01:17:02,960 --> 01:17:04,800
Speaker 4: She was like, Oh, this kid, I don't know. Yeah,

1395
01:17:04,840 --> 01:17:05,320
Speaker 4: you know, I don't know.

1396
01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:09,280
Speaker 5: It's a world where she's living in that house with them.

1397
01:17:09,560 --> 01:17:11,639
Speaker 5: So maybe this is the best way to keep things

1398
01:17:12,520 --> 01:17:14,679
Speaker 5: peaceful and quiet by pretending I'm okay.

1399
01:17:16,080 --> 01:17:17,800
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, because my mom does the one thing to

1400
01:17:17,800 --> 01:17:19,400
Speaker 4: do with me. I got to make sure dad's okay

1401
01:17:19,400 --> 01:17:20,800
Speaker 4: with me being around.

1402
01:17:21,439 --> 01:17:22,120
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1403
01:17:22,160 --> 01:17:25,639
Speaker 3: And Stephanie with the stepmother, who again is the mother

1404
01:17:25,760 --> 01:17:30,160
Speaker 3: of the suspect, she has said that Anna kaptainer or

1405
01:17:30,320 --> 01:17:34,559
Speaker 3: the step brother and another one blended in there are

1406
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:35,640
Speaker 3: the three amigos.

1407
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:38,480
Speaker 2: Amigos.

1408
01:17:39,240 --> 01:17:41,519
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, Now I take it all with a grain

1409
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:42,000
Speaker 5: of salt.

1410
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:45,240
Speaker 2: What a mess. I'm so sad to hear this story.

1411
01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 5: I know that this one. Really it seems like every

1412
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:50,960
Speaker 5: time we talk about it, there's another layer that makes Yeah,

1413
01:17:51,000 --> 01:17:53,280
Speaker 5: that's more and more upset and said it it's.

1414
01:17:53,200 --> 01:17:55,280
Speaker 2: A loving a family. It's not easy. But by the way,

1415
01:17:55,320 --> 01:17:58,280
Speaker 2: there's so many beautiful, blended families and success stories for that.

1416
01:17:58,439 --> 01:18:03,839
Speaker 2: This is really tragic. And again back of the sliding doors,

1417
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 2: had they not gotten married, you know, like really.

1418
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:10,439
Speaker 5: Not going to that cruise anyway.

1419
01:18:10,640 --> 01:18:13,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, we've got some more stuff to dig into. We

1420
01:18:13,560 --> 01:18:15,760
Speaker 4: got some talk thoughts coming up. Hopefully they'll lift her

1421
01:18:15,800 --> 01:18:18,160
Speaker 4: some our spirits a little bit. Keep it right here

1422
01:18:18,160 --> 01:18:19,000
Speaker 4: at True Crime Tonight.

1423
01:18:29,160 --> 01:18:32,040
Speaker 2: Welcome back to True Crime Tonight and iHeartRadio. We're talking

1424
01:18:32,080 --> 01:18:34,799
Speaker 2: true crime all the time. I'm staff here with Courtney

1425
01:18:34,920 --> 01:18:39,400
Speaker 2: and Body talking all kinds of things about sliding doors. Huh.

1426
01:18:39,479 --> 01:18:42,920
Speaker 2: I know that one really got to us in detail

1427
01:18:42,960 --> 01:18:46,040
Speaker 2: about the mom. Just really that one hit me. It's

1428
01:18:46,080 --> 01:18:46,759
Speaker 2: just sad.

1429
01:18:47,000 --> 01:18:49,880
Speaker 4: It's sad if it's true, and we don't know what

1430
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:52,200
Speaker 4: it is. But according to the aunt, it's true, right

1431
01:18:52,920 --> 01:18:56,000
Speaker 4: that the you know, the dad was telling Anna that

1432
01:18:56,120 --> 01:18:58,280
Speaker 4: mom really didn't want anything to do with her. And

1433
01:18:58,320 --> 01:19:00,960
Speaker 4: we don't know the family diamond, but let's just assume

1434
01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:03,800
Speaker 4: the aunt is you know, above board and is telling

1435
01:19:03,800 --> 01:19:07,920
Speaker 4: the truth. Anna's mom did want to be in her life,

1436
01:19:07,920 --> 01:19:11,599
Speaker 4: and this girl died thinking that number one, her mom

1437
01:19:11,640 --> 01:19:14,360
Speaker 4: didn't want her. And number two, she had been telling

1438
01:19:14,439 --> 01:19:17,320
Speaker 4: her mom's side of the family that she was uncomfortable

1439
01:19:17,360 --> 01:19:20,920
Speaker 4: being around her stepbrother, and so she was telling her

1440
01:19:20,920 --> 01:19:22,439
Speaker 4: mom's side of the family this, but she was telling

1441
01:19:22,439 --> 01:19:25,240
Speaker 4: her dad's side of the family, Oh, we're the best friends.

1442
01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:28,120
Speaker 4: And was she telling her dad's side of the family

1443
01:19:28,160 --> 01:19:31,479
Speaker 4: this to stay safe and stay accepted because she had

1444
01:19:31,479 --> 01:19:33,800
Speaker 4: nowhere else to go because mom didn't want her.

1445
01:19:34,280 --> 01:19:35,000
Speaker 2: In her mind, if.

1446
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:38,639
Speaker 3: You're just joining us, it's Anna Kapner, the eighteen year

1447
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:43,640
Speaker 3: old who died on a cruise ship by strangulation, and

1448
01:19:43,640 --> 01:19:45,639
Speaker 3: the suspect is their sixteen year old step brother.

1449
01:19:47,880 --> 01:19:51,200
Speaker 4: And it's just sad. It's just heartbreaking to me that.

1450
01:19:51,960 --> 01:19:54,080
Speaker 4: I mean, my mom was such an important person to me,

1451
01:19:54,160 --> 01:19:58,479
Speaker 4: and I just anyway, it just breaks my heart.

1452
01:19:58,840 --> 01:20:03,519
Speaker 2: And it breaks my heart too. We're all like this,

1453
01:20:04,479 --> 01:20:14,880
Speaker 2: we've got at what's doing, what's family dynamics. I just

1454
01:20:14,920 --> 01:20:16,800
Speaker 2: think it's worth taking a beat here because we have

1455
01:20:16,960 --> 01:20:19,360
Speaker 2: talked a lot about first of all, young people committing

1456
01:20:19,400 --> 01:20:23,080
Speaker 2: atrocious crimes. Right, So this is a sixteen year old boy, underage,

1457
01:20:23,160 --> 01:20:25,719
Speaker 2: not even legal, hasn't even had a first drink, who's

1458
01:20:25,800 --> 01:20:29,720
Speaker 2: now being charged with first agree murder, right, is that

1459
01:20:29,880 --> 01:20:33,840
Speaker 2: the reality that we're looking at here? Number one? Number two,

1460
01:20:34,000 --> 01:20:37,559
Speaker 2: I mean Rob Reiner's son, Nick Reiner, young man, granted,

1461
01:20:37,560 --> 01:20:39,559
Speaker 2: who's thirty two years old, but this has been going

1462
01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:42,639
Speaker 2: an ongoing thing. A young man living at home committing

1463
01:20:42,720 --> 01:20:47,200
Speaker 2: such a vicious, vile crime. This was not a fit.

1464
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:51,080
Speaker 2: This was vicious. The kind of thing patricide is so

1465
01:20:51,360 --> 01:20:55,240
Speaker 2: hard to accomplish. David the pop star again, this is

1466
01:20:55,320 --> 01:20:59,519
Speaker 2: a young person with their lives ahead of them. Why

1467
01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:03,040
Speaker 2: the world would he ever do this, you know, allegedly

1468
01:21:03,080 --> 01:21:07,360
Speaker 2: allegedly allegedly. It just seems shocking to me that people

1469
01:21:07,479 --> 01:21:11,320
Speaker 2: with big lives ahead of them would stoop to something

1470
01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:17,479
Speaker 2: so horrible. Like everybody loses now them included, the perpetrator included. Yeah,

1471
01:21:18,160 --> 01:21:20,880
Speaker 2: And like blending families, it's complicated. It's hard, you know,

1472
01:21:21,120 --> 01:21:21,559
Speaker 2: it's hard.

1473
01:21:23,160 --> 01:21:25,880
Speaker 4: Everybody's trying to find their their role and where they

1474
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:29,360
Speaker 4: fit in. And you know, like, Okay, now I've got

1475
01:21:29,439 --> 01:21:32,200
Speaker 4: an extra brother, or now I've got a sister, or

1476
01:21:32,320 --> 01:21:34,439
Speaker 4: you know, now I've got a you know, a step mom,

1477
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:37,800
Speaker 4: and you know you're trying to you're trying to and

1478
01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:40,160
Speaker 4: I don't know, if you guys have any you know,

1479
01:21:40,240 --> 01:21:44,320
Speaker 4: experience in this, but I I do, and you do

1480
01:21:44,600 --> 01:21:50,840
Speaker 4: try to kind of be invisible while also you know,

1481
01:21:51,840 --> 01:21:54,840
Speaker 4: kind of being a people pleaser as a child, right

1482
01:21:54,960 --> 01:21:57,639
Speaker 4: doing it You just don't want to cause problem, don't

1483
01:21:57,640 --> 01:22:02,160
Speaker 4: want to cause problems. Things right, settle around you, Right.

1484
01:22:03,360 --> 01:22:06,240
Speaker 2: I'm trying to find this horrible statistic that I read yesterday,

1485
01:22:07,120 --> 01:22:09,519
Speaker 2: and forgive me if I'm just it's not coming up

1486
01:22:09,600 --> 01:22:12,680
Speaker 2: so quickly, and maybe somebody listening has the information, but

1487
01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:16,479
Speaker 2: just talking about step families and abuse in families that

1488
01:22:16,560 --> 01:22:19,439
Speaker 2: there's a significantly high number when you look at the

1489
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:25,200
Speaker 2: number of children who are sexually abused, it's the step

1490
01:22:25,479 --> 01:22:28,640
Speaker 2: parent father. That's there's like a tick in that, an

1491
01:22:28,720 --> 01:22:32,439
Speaker 2: uptick in that, which is such a terrible tale to tell.

1492
01:22:32,640 --> 01:22:34,960
Speaker 2: I'm just looking for the actual step dad. It's from

1493
01:22:36,400 --> 01:22:39,040
Speaker 2: my stepdad is the best. I have been great. I

1494
01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:41,600
Speaker 2: love my dad and I miss them every day. But

1495
01:22:42,400 --> 01:22:45,800
Speaker 2: my mom struck gold twice, she really did. He's the best.

1496
01:22:46,280 --> 01:22:50,040
Speaker 2: That's just the best. So I'm not sure if this

1497
01:22:50,280 --> 01:22:51,320
Speaker 2: is what you're referring to.

1498
01:22:51,600 --> 01:22:57,680
Speaker 3: But in evolutionary psychology, the Cinderella effect, it describes a

1499
01:22:57,760 --> 01:23:01,560
Speaker 3: phenomenon of a higher incident of child abuse and mistreatment

1500
01:23:01,680 --> 01:23:04,719
Speaker 3: by step parents than biological parents.

1501
01:23:05,240 --> 01:23:08,240
Speaker 2: It makes sense, It absolutely makes sense. It's a bye.

1502
01:23:08,400 --> 01:23:11,960
Speaker 3: It's a byproduct that mammals, such as call as mammals

1503
01:23:12,040 --> 01:23:17,640
Speaker 3: are biased towards biological family. And then also you are

1504
01:23:17,720 --> 01:23:25,360
Speaker 3: obviously now in close proximity to someone who necessarily is

1505
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:28,160
Speaker 3: vulnerable because they are a minor and.

1506
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:30,080
Speaker 2: They don't want to speak up too much, it says.

1507
01:23:30,120 --> 01:23:33,920
Speaker 2: Some data suggests children and step families are eight to

1508
01:23:34,200 --> 01:23:40,839
Speaker 2: sixty times more likely to experience sexual abuse or infant

1509
01:23:41,000 --> 01:23:45,960
Speaker 2: side infinicide and fanticide, infanticide. I don't like that word.

1510
01:23:46,000 --> 01:23:49,720
Speaker 2: What is that in fanticide compared to those with two

1511
01:23:49,800 --> 01:23:56,280
Speaker 2: biological parents? God, oh my gosh, in fanticide, I never

1512
01:23:56,400 --> 01:23:59,280
Speaker 2: heard of that before. That closest horrible word I've ever.

1513
01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:02,160
Speaker 2: It's a it's a in like to Courtney what Courtney

1514
01:24:02,240 --> 01:24:02,479
Speaker 2: was saying.

1515
01:24:02,479 --> 01:24:07,639
Speaker 4: As mammals, you know, oftentimes like a lion, for instance,

1516
01:24:07,680 --> 01:24:11,479
Speaker 4: will kill its cubs, a male lion so that the

1517
01:24:11,800 --> 01:24:12,960
Speaker 4: female can reproduce again.

1518
01:24:14,200 --> 01:24:19,920
Speaker 2: It happens to stop. Yeah again, like we're not this

1519
01:24:20,080 --> 01:24:22,240
Speaker 2: is not a you know, everybody should have very healthy

1520
01:24:22,280 --> 01:24:30,080
Speaker 2: step families, but again blending pointymore inn andy sampler. Movie

1521
01:24:31,920 --> 01:24:32,280
Speaker 2: was great.

1522
01:24:32,360 --> 01:24:35,560
Speaker 4: I still kind of wanted to make sure that you know,

1523
01:24:35,720 --> 01:24:38,680
Speaker 4: I fit in. I mean, my my stepfather was phenomenal,

1524
01:24:39,160 --> 01:24:40,920
Speaker 4: but I you know, I wanted to be the good

1525
01:24:41,040 --> 01:24:44,320
Speaker 4: kid so that he wouldn't leave, you know what.

1526
01:24:44,360 --> 01:24:47,120
Speaker 2: I mean, Like or that your mom wouldn't be upset

1527
01:24:47,240 --> 01:24:50,040
Speaker 2: if something bad had happened. Maybe I won't tell, or

1528
01:24:50,160 --> 01:24:52,640
Speaker 2: if dad abused me, I won't say anything because I

1529
01:24:52,680 --> 01:24:54,120
Speaker 2: don't want my mom to be unhappy.

1530
01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:57,719
Speaker 4: I'd really like to know what the relationship was between

1531
01:24:57,760 --> 01:25:02,000
Speaker 4: stepmom and Anna that furious about, Like did Anna was

1532
01:25:02,080 --> 01:25:03,920
Speaker 4: Anna excited to have a mom?

1533
01:25:04,439 --> 01:25:04,960
Speaker 5: Mm hmmm?

1534
01:25:05,400 --> 01:25:08,920
Speaker 4: And was she kind of submissive to that a little bit?

1535
01:25:09,479 --> 01:25:09,800
Speaker 2: I don't know.

1536
01:25:09,880 --> 01:25:11,080
Speaker 4: Listen, I'm getting too deep into this.

1537
01:25:11,640 --> 01:25:15,880
Speaker 2: No, I know we're all, but it's complicated. It's sad.

1538
01:25:16,439 --> 01:25:19,120
Speaker 4: My heart breaks for the whole family. Honestly, I feel

1539
01:25:19,120 --> 01:25:20,080
Speaker 4: bad even talking about it.

1540
01:25:20,840 --> 01:25:22,240
Speaker 5: Well, do we want to change the mood?

1541
01:25:22,320 --> 01:25:22,800
Speaker 2: And yes?

1542
01:25:22,920 --> 01:25:25,360
Speaker 5: Go to a talkback? How about that? How about.

1543
01:25:26,880 --> 01:25:27,599
Speaker 2: Waited bests?

1544
01:25:30,520 --> 01:25:34,000
Speaker 10: Lady Ali from Orlando, You guys are talking about the

1545
01:25:34,160 --> 01:25:37,880
Speaker 10: movie Beautiful Boy with Deve Carrell and Timothy Shallo may,

1546
01:25:38,320 --> 01:25:42,000
Speaker 10: I highly highly highly recommend reading the book first. You

1547
01:25:42,320 --> 01:25:45,479
Speaker 10: love the movie even better, So just a suggestion, have

1548
01:25:45,560 --> 01:25:46,000
Speaker 10: a good night.

1549
01:25:46,760 --> 01:25:47,920
Speaker 4: I want to read more books.

1550
01:25:50,000 --> 01:25:52,000
Speaker 2: I was a literature major. I haven't read a book

1551
01:25:52,000 --> 01:25:58,320
Speaker 2: all year this year. Yeah English, Yeah, wow. I loved

1552
01:25:58,400 --> 01:25:59,920
Speaker 2: to read. I was a big reader. Meet to you.

1553
01:26:00,280 --> 01:26:03,599
Speaker 2: I literally do not read. And I mean I read

1554
01:26:03,600 --> 01:26:06,559
Speaker 2: the newspaper. I read articles all day, not just for fun.

1555
01:26:06,960 --> 01:26:10,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you also have you've gone through since where

1556
01:26:10,400 --> 01:26:14,240
Speaker 3: you've read many non fiction books, many many many So

1557
01:26:14,640 --> 01:26:18,599
Speaker 3: true that as well is re act and art of reading.

1558
01:26:18,800 --> 01:26:21,720
Speaker 5: So at me as a big reader? How often? How many?

1559
01:26:21,840 --> 01:26:24,439
Speaker 5: What's your average book per Let's say I don't know.

1560
01:26:24,640 --> 01:26:29,680
Speaker 2: Mine would say it can vary so widely. I mean

1561
01:26:29,840 --> 01:26:30,760
Speaker 2: I usually.

1562
01:26:32,800 --> 01:26:33,120
Speaker 5: I don't know.

1563
01:26:33,120 --> 01:26:38,240
Speaker 2: I'm kind of usually reading three at a time. She

1564
01:26:38,400 --> 01:26:42,640
Speaker 2: always travels with a heav you can read all of

1565
01:26:42,720 --> 01:26:45,479
Speaker 2: her books with I keep carry on. It's like watching

1566
01:26:45,680 --> 01:26:51,240
Speaker 2: her carried grips nine bricks, like you just put that

1567
01:26:51,320 --> 01:26:53,320
Speaker 2: on an iPad. But I guess it's you know, it's

1568
01:26:53,439 --> 01:26:56,280
Speaker 2: nice to have the actual book, and her place is

1569
01:26:56,280 --> 01:26:56,839
Speaker 2: a library.

1570
01:26:57,439 --> 01:27:00,200
Speaker 5: I love that and I'm such the I wish I

1571
01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:02,040
Speaker 5: want to read more. I hate it. I take a

1572
01:27:02,080 --> 01:27:04,639
Speaker 5: book every vacation. I'm like, I'm going to read this book.

1573
01:27:04,680 --> 01:27:07,680
Speaker 5: It's it's the entire time in the room. And my

1574
01:27:07,800 --> 01:27:09,720
Speaker 5: goal though, is I'm going to read a book a

1575
01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:11,759
Speaker 5: month because I want to be a little more like Courtney.

1576
01:27:11,840 --> 01:27:12,720
Speaker 5: So that's my New Years.

1577
01:27:13,920 --> 01:27:16,880
Speaker 3: It's it's such a good thing. But yeah, it's it's

1578
01:27:17,680 --> 01:27:19,400
Speaker 3: it's just my pleasure, do you know what I mean.

1579
01:27:19,520 --> 01:27:20,439
Speaker 2: I guess it's not.

1580
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:24,559
Speaker 4: So the Beautiful Boy the book. We're supposed to read

1581
01:27:24,600 --> 01:27:26,719
Speaker 4: the book and then watch the movie at that listening.

1582
01:27:27,360 --> 01:27:28,640
Speaker 5: I don't think that's what happened for me.

1583
01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:31,160
Speaker 2: But the movie was really good.

1584
01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:33,519
Speaker 4: Yeah, I would like to read the book though, I mean,

1585
01:27:33,560 --> 01:27:35,600
Speaker 4: I love reading. The last book I read was in

1586
01:27:35,680 --> 01:27:40,080
Speaker 4: Malaysia and that was two years ago. Yeah, I watched all.

1587
01:27:40,000 --> 01:27:40,360
Speaker 2: I could do.

1588
01:27:41,360 --> 01:27:43,520
Speaker 5: Oh that's right. We were se questioned without.

1589
01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:47,479
Speaker 4: We were sequestered, right, we would trade books. It's funny too.

1590
01:27:47,640 --> 01:27:49,719
Speaker 4: You guys have in production. You guys know in production,

1591
01:27:49,800 --> 01:27:52,800
Speaker 4: and yeah, you always did it worse selection to make

1592
01:27:52,880 --> 01:27:54,400
Speaker 4: sure to make sure we weren't.

1593
01:27:54,560 --> 01:27:55,679
Speaker 2: Write anything in there.

1594
01:27:56,320 --> 01:27:56,960
Speaker 5: That's funny.

1595
01:27:57,280 --> 01:27:59,760
Speaker 4: Wow, Yeah, like Jason's the Mole or whatever.

1596
01:27:59,800 --> 01:27:59,960
Speaker 3: You know.

1597
01:28:01,120 --> 01:28:04,559
Speaker 2: I've wanted to see that. I've been.

1598
01:28:04,680 --> 01:28:07,080
Speaker 3: I've had to because Stephanie, as you said, get ready

1599
01:28:07,120 --> 01:28:08,040
Speaker 3: for a tear jerker.

1600
01:28:08,280 --> 01:28:12,240
Speaker 2: I had to put myself in the it's so well

1601
01:28:12,720 --> 01:28:16,240
Speaker 2: act The acting is so good, it's so good, Steve

1602
01:28:16,320 --> 01:28:18,120
Speaker 2: Carell is brilliant in it, and it just has a

1603
01:28:18,200 --> 01:28:22,080
Speaker 2: really nice look at the truth behind. You know what's.

1604
01:28:22,120 --> 01:28:26,080
Speaker 4: Interesting that these comedians like Steve Carell and like Jim Carrey.

1605
01:28:26,880 --> 01:28:29,400
Speaker 4: One of my favorite movies is The Eternal Sunshine for

1606
01:28:29,439 --> 01:28:30,240
Speaker 4: the Spotless Mind.

1607
01:28:31,520 --> 01:28:32,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's like it's.

1608
01:28:32,880 --> 01:28:35,360
Speaker 4: One of the serious movies right with Jim Carrey, and

1609
01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:38,040
Speaker 4: he's so good in it. And I feel like Steve

1610
01:28:38,120 --> 01:28:42,840
Speaker 4: Carell has that same vibe. Like I know, if I

1611
01:28:42,920 --> 01:28:44,760
Speaker 4: see Steve Carell cry, I'm going to beat like a

1612
01:28:44,800 --> 01:28:46,040
Speaker 4: lunatic like I'm.

1613
01:28:46,160 --> 01:28:53,360
Speaker 3: Crying, yeah, or Robin Williams hunting, I will talk about.

1614
01:28:53,160 --> 01:28:56,519
Speaker 2: A cry fast. I just watched again and it's it's

1615
01:28:56,600 --> 01:29:00,360
Speaker 2: not your fault and it's not your fault. It's not

1616
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:01,000
Speaker 2: your fault.

1617
01:29:02,880 --> 01:29:07,960
Speaker 4: I just cried that three weeks ago. You were going

1618
01:29:08,040 --> 01:29:12,679
Speaker 4: to be happier now, I'm Can we talk about Didy,

1619
01:29:12,840 --> 01:29:13,679
Speaker 4: Let's talk about.

1620
01:29:16,760 --> 01:29:17,160
Speaker 5: Talk back?

1621
01:29:17,520 --> 01:29:18,040
Speaker 2: Do we really?

1622
01:29:19,000 --> 01:29:22,280
Speaker 8: Hey, ladies, just watching in the Shawn Combs documentary, and

1623
01:29:22,360 --> 01:29:25,800
Speaker 8: I'm so disappointed to hear from the two jurors. The

1624
01:29:25,920 --> 01:29:29,479
Speaker 8: one durs seemed totally swinten with him, and then the

1625
01:29:29,640 --> 01:29:35,240
Speaker 8: seconder blamed Cassie for not leaving Seawan Colmbs when he

1626
01:29:35,400 --> 01:29:36,200
Speaker 8: was being abusive.

1627
01:29:36,960 --> 01:29:39,599
Speaker 2: What do you guys think? No, I am so glad

1628
01:29:39,680 --> 01:29:43,559
Speaker 2: you said that. I literally wanted to throw my phone

1629
01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:46,960
Speaker 2: at the TV because it was also so grateful that

1630
01:29:47,120 --> 01:29:50,640
Speaker 2: it exists. That interview with the maleger specifically is who

1631
01:29:50,680 --> 01:29:53,040
Speaker 2: I'm speaking about, and again this is not personal to him.

1632
01:29:53,720 --> 01:29:58,280
Speaker 2: It just shows why victims are often not believed and

1633
01:29:58,439 --> 01:30:02,600
Speaker 2: don't come forward or don't come fone because it's mindsets

1634
01:30:02,800 --> 01:30:06,160
Speaker 2: and people like him that just do not get the

1635
01:30:06,320 --> 01:30:10,519
Speaker 2: cycle of trauma and abuse period the end, just like

1636
01:30:10,800 --> 01:30:13,719
Speaker 2: we heard from so many that you know, sometimes people

1637
01:30:13,800 --> 01:30:16,320
Speaker 2: go back seven times. By the way, that same rule

1638
01:30:16,360 --> 01:30:19,400
Speaker 2: applies for you know addicts and drug addiction, right, they

1639
01:30:19,479 --> 01:30:22,439
Speaker 2: go back, They go back. It requires so much grace.

1640
01:30:23,120 --> 01:30:27,920
Speaker 2: But that jur had zero He had no idea about

1641
01:30:28,280 --> 01:30:31,320
Speaker 2: what goes on in an abusive relationship. And I think

1642
01:30:31,360 --> 01:30:33,680
Speaker 2: the fact that we get to talk about it is

1643
01:30:33,840 --> 01:30:36,360
Speaker 2: so important because he's not alone.

1644
01:30:36,720 --> 01:30:41,880
Speaker 4: He is now away, right, Yeah, his opinion is not unique.

1645
01:30:41,800 --> 01:30:45,240
Speaker 2: Right, No, unfortunately, and you know a juror being smitten

1646
01:30:45,280 --> 01:30:47,160
Speaker 2: by a celebrity is also not unique.

1647
01:30:47,280 --> 01:30:47,400
Speaker 1: Right.

1648
01:30:47,560 --> 01:30:49,479
Speaker 2: So I was like, first of all, why did they

1649
01:30:49,479 --> 01:30:51,599
Speaker 2: sit down for this interview? But then I was grateful

1650
01:30:51,720 --> 01:30:54,120
Speaker 2: beyond because they couldn't have spoken for themselves any better.

1651
01:30:54,200 --> 01:31:01,160
Speaker 2: It completely sums up why victims are often dismissed. Where's

1652
01:31:01,160 --> 01:31:03,200
Speaker 2: the Epstein files? We have two days left with day?

1653
01:31:03,280 --> 01:31:03,760
Speaker 5: Is it right now?

1654
01:31:03,960 --> 01:31:05,320
Speaker 2: Is there an hour countdown?

1655
01:31:05,400 --> 01:31:05,559
Speaker 5: Yet?

1656
01:31:05,800 --> 01:31:11,120
Speaker 2: Three more sleeps? Three more sleeps? Oh my god, that's

1657
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:13,200
Speaker 2: all going to hit the air while we're in the weekend.

1658
01:31:13,360 --> 01:31:13,840
Speaker 5: Oh my god.

1659
01:31:14,040 --> 01:31:18,280
Speaker 3: And I'm gonna Stephanie has brought me down the rabbit

1660
01:31:18,360 --> 01:31:21,320
Speaker 3: hole and I am just up pouncing behind because I'm

1661
01:31:21,360 --> 01:31:24,639
Speaker 3: in the middle of listening to it's about an hour

1662
01:31:24,720 --> 01:31:29,960
Speaker 3: and a half article deep dive on Jeffrey Epstein and definitively.

1663
01:31:29,520 --> 01:31:30,880
Speaker 2: How he got his cash.

1664
01:31:31,320 --> 01:31:33,679
Speaker 4: I started the email definitely today.

1665
01:31:34,080 --> 01:31:36,840
Speaker 2: I was just saying, okay, yes, it came from Body.

1666
01:31:36,920 --> 01:31:40,680
Speaker 2: I was like too, and you were like no, and

1667
01:31:40,720 --> 01:31:43,519
Speaker 2: then I couldn't know, and then I couldn't find it Body.

1668
01:31:43,600 --> 01:31:46,000
Speaker 2: But I was like Body, just sent this to me. Yeah,

1669
01:31:46,160 --> 01:31:48,160
Speaker 2: can you read forward that I'm gonna read that before.

1670
01:31:47,960 --> 01:31:50,599
Speaker 4: I'm going to Yes, of course i'll resend it. It's

1671
01:31:50,720 --> 01:31:53,880
Speaker 4: so yeah, I started reading it. It's it's from I

1672
01:31:53,920 --> 01:31:56,320
Speaker 4: think it's the New York Times. Yeah, and I think

1673
01:31:56,400 --> 01:31:59,160
Speaker 4: it's it's about how because we were literally just talking

1674
01:31:59,200 --> 01:32:01,840
Speaker 4: about the money. Yeah, follow the money, the money.

1675
01:32:02,760 --> 01:32:02,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1676
01:32:03,000 --> 01:32:05,400
Speaker 3: So starting off, I'm not going to remember a single name,

1677
01:32:05,520 --> 01:32:08,960
Speaker 3: but it's a lot of meet a woman who's rich

1678
01:32:09,080 --> 01:32:13,760
Speaker 3: and connected and embroil yourself with her, meet all her

1679
01:32:13,920 --> 01:32:16,599
Speaker 3: connections and keep moving up.

1680
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:18,920
Speaker 2: And that's why he was so effective working at that

1681
01:32:19,040 --> 01:32:21,720
Speaker 2: high school, the Dalton School, where he was meeting very

1682
01:32:21,840 --> 01:32:25,719
Speaker 2: wealthy families in New York City and you know, meeting

1683
01:32:25,800 --> 01:32:30,519
Speaker 2: the parents of very influential, wealthy children. That was the stick.

1684
01:32:32,720 --> 01:32:32,960
Speaker 5: Wow.

1685
01:32:33,560 --> 01:32:34,479
Speaker 2: But it's interesting.

1686
01:32:34,600 --> 01:32:37,240
Speaker 5: So i'll send it to you to Okay, thank you. Yeah,

1687
01:32:38,040 --> 01:32:40,040
Speaker 5: I'll start. I'll read that first and then i'll start

1688
01:32:40,120 --> 01:32:40,439
Speaker 5: my book.

1689
01:32:40,720 --> 01:32:43,680
Speaker 2: See and you guys, so do you know think that

1690
01:32:43,880 --> 01:32:47,960
Speaker 2: the president tomorrow is making a public address in prime time?

1691
01:32:48,120 --> 01:32:50,560
Speaker 2: Do you think the Epstein files will be addressed in that?

1692
01:32:51,120 --> 01:32:53,120
Speaker 4: I think it can be about like Venezuela.

1693
01:32:53,640 --> 01:32:56,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, golf. Is it a way to cover up the

1694
01:32:56,800 --> 01:32:58,680
Speaker 2: fact that the next day we're supposed to have all

1695
01:32:58,720 --> 01:33:01,320
Speaker 2: the files. I can't imagine that the victims are not

1696
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:03,560
Speaker 2: at the ready with a list that they're ready to

1697
01:33:03,600 --> 01:33:07,400
Speaker 2: start rambling on about. Despite if we don't get more

1698
01:33:07,479 --> 01:33:10,799
Speaker 2: in the next forty eight hours, I'll be so shocked

1699
01:33:11,080 --> 01:33:14,639
Speaker 2: and disappointed. I will not be shocked, but I will

1700
01:33:14,680 --> 01:33:15,400
Speaker 2: be disappointed.

1701
01:33:15,520 --> 01:33:16,920
Speaker 5: I'll be disappointed, but I will.

1702
01:33:16,800 --> 01:33:18,519
Speaker 4: I'll be disappointed, but I'm not going to be show.

1703
01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:22,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, i will be shocked. I'll be shocked if we

1704
01:33:22,680 --> 01:33:27,080
Speaker 2: get them. I mean, listen, believe in the justice system

1705
01:33:27,160 --> 01:33:29,160
Speaker 2: at this point, I mean, I guess that says it all.

1706
01:33:29,240 --> 01:33:30,000
Speaker 2: You're not alone in that.

1707
01:33:30,360 --> 01:33:34,000
Speaker 4: It's not eating the system or even just this administration

1708
01:33:34,160 --> 01:33:35,120
Speaker 4: is just men in power.

1709
01:33:35,320 --> 01:33:36,200
Speaker 2: I just don't trust them.

1710
01:33:37,280 --> 01:33:39,680
Speaker 3: And in this particular instance of Epstein, you know, the

1711
01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:42,280
Speaker 3: whole fool you want sham on you. Well, now we're

1712
01:33:42,320 --> 01:33:46,960
Speaker 3: at being fooled fifteen times when of the FBI, aney General, the.

1713
01:33:47,040 --> 01:33:51,599
Speaker 5: President like, yeah, it's so true, frustrating.

1714
01:33:51,080 --> 01:33:54,000
Speaker 2: So true. Well, we're gonna definitely, I assume have some

1715
01:33:54,160 --> 01:33:58,840
Speaker 2: updates on that tomorrow. TikTok, TikTok, reminder everybody, Jarrett Farantino,

1716
01:33:59,000 --> 01:34:01,760
Speaker 2: our most favorite prosecutor, will be with us to answer

1717
01:34:01,800 --> 01:34:05,479
Speaker 2: any of your legal questions, so send them in. This

1718
01:34:05,600 --> 01:34:08,280
Speaker 2: has been a great night. Sorry for the tough topics,

1719
01:34:08,360 --> 01:34:11,280
Speaker 2: but we love you and we're so grateful to share

1720
01:34:11,600 --> 01:34:14,479
Speaker 2: our Wednesday night with you. Tomorrow. Bye bye