1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:01,600 Speaker 1: Welcome. 2 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:04,600 Speaker 2: It is verdict with Senator Ted Cruz Ben Ferguson with 3 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 2: you and Senator it is the trial of the century, 4 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:11,319 Speaker 2: is how they were selling it on TV today. The 5 00:00:11,440 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 2: jury and the Donald Trump trial is going to have 6 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: an awful lot of power on his future. 7 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 3: Well, that's exactly right. We had yesterday, we had closing 8 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:23,799 Speaker 3: arguments from the defense from the prosecution, and today the 9 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 3: judge will give jury instructions to the jury and the 10 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,600 Speaker 3: jury will begin to deliberate and deliberate until they reach 11 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 3: a verdict. And so this is what it all comes 12 00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:38,520 Speaker 3: down to. The witnesses are done, the evidence is done, 13 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 3: and it now comes down to the judge and the jury, 14 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,159 Speaker 3: and we're going to find out the outcome. So we're 15 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,319 Speaker 3: going to explain what to expect, what the jury's options are, 16 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 3: what is critical in the jury instructions, and then we're 17 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 3: also going to talk about yet another trial, which is 18 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,200 Speaker 3: the Hunter Biden trial, which is about to begin, and 19 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 3: we're going to talk about the rather astonishing thing that 20 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 3: right before the Hunter Biden trial, Joe Biden decided a 21 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:06,279 Speaker 3: little witness tampering is a good way to start that trial. 22 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 3: We're going to compare and contrast these two trials, these 23 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 3: two presidents, and the very different standards of justice that 24 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 3: have applied to both of them. 25 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, one's the trial of the century. The other one 26 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 2: no one's talking about at all. Let me tell you 27 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:20,039 Speaker 2: real quick about our friend's over at Patriot Mobile. I 28 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 2: tell you what I love knowing that every day when 29 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 2: I use my cell phone, I'm making a difference in 30 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 2: standing up for what I believe in. And I love 31 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:30,000 Speaker 2: knowing that I'm no longer giving my money to woke 32 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:32,760 Speaker 2: companies that are fighting against my values. Now, if you 33 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:35,959 Speaker 2: have a cell phone, technology now has changed everything in 34 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,559 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, you don't have to worry about having 35 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 2: spotty coverage when you switch cell phone providers because you're 36 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 2: going to use the same exact towers you're using right now, 37 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 2: meaning you get the same exact coverage. But the difference 38 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 2: is you're not with Big Mobile, who gets big donations. 39 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 2: When you switch Patriot Mobile, you're going to give donations 40 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 2: to conservative causes organizations and instead of being with Big Mobile, 41 00:01:57,760 --> 00:02:00,560 Speaker 2: where they're giving big donations a democratic car CAU and 42 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: candidates in organizations including Planned Parenthood. That is why I 43 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 2: want you to switch to Patriot Mobile. You don't even 44 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:10,839 Speaker 2: have to go to a store to switch. You can 45 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,960 Speaker 2: literally call them nine to seven to two Patriot With 46 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 2: twenty twenty four technology, you can. 47 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:18,639 Speaker 1: Switch over the phone. 48 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: You can keep your same phone number you have now 49 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 2: your same phone you have in your hand, are upgrade 50 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 2: to a new one and it's all now done over 51 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:26,480 Speaker 2: the phone. 52 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 1: Plus, when you pay. 53 00:02:27,880 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 2: Your bill every month, five percent of your bill, at 54 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 2: no extra charge to you, goes back to support causes. 55 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 2: It support our First and Second Amendment rights, the rights 56 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 2: of unborn children, and at Patriot Mobile, they support our 57 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 2: wounded warriors, our veterans, and our first responder heroes. I 58 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:50,640 Speaker 2: love giving my money to company that's aligned with my value. 59 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 2: So join me today, make the switch and make a difference. 60 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 2: With every phone call nine seven to two Patriot or 61 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: Patriotmobile dot com slash vert use a promo code verdict 62 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 2: and you'll also get free activation Patriotmobile dot com slash verdict. 63 00:03:06,680 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 2: Use the promo code verdict or nine to seven to 64 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 2: two Patriot Senator. This has been a trial the media 65 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 2: has been obsessed with with Donald Trump in New York. 66 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 2: We've also been kind of looking at them hedging their bets, 67 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:21,800 Speaker 2: and I'm referring to the media. They've started to say, well, 68 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,079 Speaker 2: you know, Michael Cohen didn't work very well. Maybe this 69 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 2: thing won't happen the way we thought it was. There 70 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 2: is a chance he could not be convicted. So let's 71 00:03:30,960 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 2: go through what is now happening with the jury. They 72 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 2: get their instructions from the judge. That'll take about an hour. 73 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 2: They then have to go deliberate, and at that point 74 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 2: there's nothing left from the outside world but for us 75 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: to wait. So what is the jury's options. The Democrats 76 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,360 Speaker 2: want Trump to go to jail. They've been throwing these 77 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 2: stories out there, the Secret Service talking to jail about 78 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 2: maybe him. If he goes to jail, then there's the 79 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 2: other possibility of a hung jury or not guilty. Tell 80 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 2: me and explain each one of these scenarios. 81 00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 3: Well, as you noted, the judge is going to start 82 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 3: the day by giving the jury instructions. The jury instructions 83 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 3: matter enormously, and we're going to find out just how 84 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 3: wildly biased this judge is. Those jury instructions are going 85 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:19,799 Speaker 3: to set up what the task is. It's the judge's 86 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:21,839 Speaker 3: job to tell the jury what the law is and 87 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 3: depending on what the judge instructs. That could well be 88 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 3: putting a finger on the scale and leaning in against 89 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,479 Speaker 3: Trump and in favor of the prosecution. As we've talked 90 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 3: about on this pod, there are many aspects of the 91 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 3: prosecution that did not go well for the prosecutor. Michael 92 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 3: Cohen was a disaster of a witness. He admitted to 93 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,279 Speaker 3: lying on the stand. He admitted to being a thief 94 00:04:45,320 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 3: on the stand. That really is a first. I don't 95 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 3: know of another trial where the star witness admits and 96 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 3: breaks news. Oh, by the way, I stole a bunch 97 00:04:52,440 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 3: of money from you too. 98 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 4: That. 99 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 3: As we talked about this on this podcast that had 100 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,480 Speaker 3: CNN crying in their beer, I got to say, I 101 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 3: do feel a little bad for CNN. I don't know 102 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 3: what they're actually going to cover when this trial is over. 103 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 3: They're certainly not going to cover the Hunter Biden trial 104 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 3: because that would entail saying something negative about the White House, 105 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:10,360 Speaker 3: So they won't do that. 106 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 2: The way you just insulted beer drinkers, I don't think 107 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: they drink beer at Cena. 108 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: I think it's more like a white claw. I'm just 109 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: gonna be honest with you. 110 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,599 Speaker 3: Hey, don't knock white claws. I had white claws thrown 111 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:23,120 Speaker 3: at me, two of them. It's you know, that's where 112 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:25,880 Speaker 3: you need catike reflexes. If someone throws a white claw, 113 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 3: you gotta duck. 114 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: You gotta duck. 115 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 2: I will say you and I had a white claw 116 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 2: at one of the shows after that happened. 117 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,600 Speaker 1: Can we both agree that might be one of the 118 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: worst drinks you've ever had in your touch. 119 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 3: Last y I've had precisely one white claw in my life, 120 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:41,440 Speaker 3: and I didn't finish mine. 121 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,840 Speaker 1: I didn't finish money there. It was like seventy five 122 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 1: percent still in the bottle. It was disgusting. But then 123 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: at CNN, I'm sure they drink that stuff. 124 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 3: I you know, probably with a little pink umbrella. But 125 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,679 Speaker 3: CNN is they're worried, the media is worried that Trump 126 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 3: will be acquitted. We'll find out. Look, the jury has 127 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,520 Speaker 3: not been sequestered. So they're all in New York. They 128 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:08,039 Speaker 3: all went over a Memorial Day weekend. They were surrounded 129 00:06:08,040 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 3: by their friends and family, presumably, and my guess is 130 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 3: a whole lot of them were saying, you got to 131 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 3: convict this guy. You got to convict this guy. They're 132 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:19,640 Speaker 3: not supposed to discuss the case with anybody, but the 133 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 3: jury really should have been sequestered, and the jury instructions 134 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:26,200 Speaker 3: are going to matter a lot. And by the way, 135 00:06:26,320 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 3: if Trump is convicted, one of the many things that 136 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 3: could lead to an appeal is what's in the jury instructions. 137 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 3: And I'm going to break down in particular an issue 138 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 3: on that in a second. But you ask what will happen. Look, 139 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 3: they're thirty four counts of falsifying business records, and so 140 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 3: the jury has to reach a verdict on each of 141 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 3: the thirty four counts, and the options are guilty or 142 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 3: not guilty. Now to find the defendant guilty. To find 143 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 3: Trump guilty, the jury has to be unanimous of all 144 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 3: twelve jurors have to conclude he's guilty. Now, they don't 145 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 3: have to reach the same result in every one of 146 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 3: the counts, So they could conceivably find him guiltlty on 147 00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 3: some and not guilty on others, but it has to 148 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 3: be unanimous in order to find him guilty. If they 149 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 3: can't reach an outcome, if they're deadlocked, then you could 150 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,880 Speaker 3: have a hung jury, and a hung jury leads to a 151 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 3: best trial, and they could start the whole thing all 152 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 3: over again, And in terms of timing, we don't know 153 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 3: how quick this could be. That we could see a 154 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 3: verdict today, we could see a verdict tomorrow, or they 155 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 3: could spend a week or two deliberating and end up 156 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 3: being deadlocked. All of those are possibilities, and we don't 157 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 3: really know what the time he'll be. 158 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 2: Can we go back to hung jury just for a 159 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 2: second and explain that a little bit more? Is that 160 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 2: a positive if you're the person he accused? Obviously in 161 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 2: this scenario that would be Donald Trump, And then you 162 00:07:41,120 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 2: mentioned appeal. Play that out for us, and what would 163 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 2: that look like in the timeline. 164 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,760 Speaker 3: Well, look, for a criminal defendant, a hung jury is 165 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 3: a victory. It's certainly a lot better than a guilty verdict. 166 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 3: So a hung jury means the prosecution failed to convict you, 167 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,760 Speaker 3: but it's not a verdict of innocence of not guilty. 168 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 3: And so the result of a hung jury is that 169 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:06,440 Speaker 3: the judge is forced to clar abyss trial and you 170 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:09,080 Speaker 3: can go to the trial all over again. And so, 171 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 3: but a criminal defendant in normal circumstances, and not a 172 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,119 Speaker 3: thing about this is remotely normal. But in normal circumstances, 173 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 3: a criminal defendant is pretty durned happy with the hung jury. 174 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 3: It means the prosecution failed, and with some frequency the 175 00:08:24,280 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 3: prosecution does not chooses not to try it a second time. 176 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,680 Speaker 3: And so a hung jury is at least a partial 177 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 3: victory for the defense. But as I said, it can 178 00:08:34,960 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 3: all happen again, which truly would be a nightmare. But 179 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 3: CNN may be rooting for that because, as I said, 180 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 3: they got to cover something for the next couple of months, 181 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 3: and they're not going to cover the failures of the 182 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 3: Biden White House, so this is all that's left to them. 183 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 2: If this goes that scenario where someone holds out and 184 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 2: they say, hey, I'm not going to convict, and then 185 00:08:56,000 --> 00:08:58,080 Speaker 2: you look at the timeline down the road, could this 186 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 2: still Would this be after a election day before election day? 187 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,240 Speaker 2: And if Donald Trump wins reelection, right, he gets elect 188 00:09:05,280 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 2: this second time? The question I've been asked, and I said, 189 00:09:08,160 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 2: I'm not a legal scholar, so I'm going to ask you. 190 00:09:10,120 --> 00:09:12,320 Speaker 2: Could the president in theory pardon himself? 191 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:16,479 Speaker 3: No, okay, Now, the president can pardon himself from federal offenses. 192 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 3: And so the indictments from the Department of Justice, there 193 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 3: are two different indictments from the Special Council Jack Smith. 194 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 3: There is the one that is the Document's case that's 195 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 3: down in Florida for his alleged possession and legal possession 196 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 3: of classified documents at Marlago. There is the second one 197 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,480 Speaker 3: that is the indictment in DC for January sixth. Both 198 00:09:38,520 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 3: of those the president could pardon himself because those are 199 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:46,199 Speaker 3: federal claims. He wouldn't actually need to pardon himself because 200 00:09:46,200 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 3: he could just direct the Department of Justice to dismiss 201 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 3: the cases. And so if Trump is elected, both of 202 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 3: those cases will go away. What he can't pardon himself 203 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 3: of is the state offenses. So he can't part himself 204 00:10:01,120 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 3: of the New York criminal charges. He can't pardon himself 205 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,240 Speaker 3: for the Georgia criminal charges because neither of those are 206 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 3: federal charges. They're both state charges, and so only the 207 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 3: governor can pardon. Actually, in Georgia, the governor can't pardon 208 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 3: until after the trial. So even in that circumstance, it's 209 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 3: not subject to a pardon until after the trial. 210 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 2: So let's talk about if the jury goes in there 211 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 2: is what has to take place for them to find 212 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 2: him either guilty or innocent. Does that have to be 213 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 2: unanimous in these state cases. 214 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 1: So it does have to be unanimous. 215 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:35,640 Speaker 3: It has to be unanimous as to each of the counts, 216 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 3: if any, on which he's found guilty. Now, this is 217 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:42,360 Speaker 3: where the jury instructions really matter, though, because it depends 218 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 3: on what the judge asks them to find. Remember these 219 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 3: claims that these charges are all for bookkeeping offenses. They're 220 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 3: therefore thirty four allegedly false entries of a bookkeeping Now, 221 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:01,800 Speaker 3: under New York law, those books keeping offenses or misdemeanors 222 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 3: and misdemeanors on which the statute of limitations has run. 223 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 3: And so the whole trick of this very creative and 224 00:11:10,360 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 3: frankly frivolous prosecution is they're trying to bootstrap a misdemeanor, 225 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 3: and a misdemeanor is a crime that is punishable by 226 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 3: less than a year in jail, and a misdemeanor typically 227 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,000 Speaker 3: as a short statute of limitations. They're trying to bootstrap 228 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:32,840 Speaker 3: it by focusing on another crime. And so if the 229 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 3: book keeping offense is in furtherance of another crime, it 230 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 3: can be elevated to a felony, which gives you a 231 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:44,720 Speaker 3: longer statute of limitations and longer a longer potential jail sentence. 232 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:49,480 Speaker 3: But what is really going to be critical is what 233 00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 3: the judge tells the jury they have to find about 234 00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 3: this so called other crime. And I will say there 235 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:57,720 Speaker 3: was a really good article that was written by Byron 236 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 3: York and the Washington Examiner entitled Judgment Week how prosecutors 237 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 3: will use the quote other crime against Trump? And in 238 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 3: it he points out that the bookkeeping offenses are misdemeanors, 239 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:14,960 Speaker 3: but that the theory that they're using is that in 240 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 3: addition to the bookkeeping offenses, Trump violated a New York 241 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 3: state election law barring the quote conspiracy to promote or 242 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:30,359 Speaker 3: prevent election by unlawful means. Now, that is a misdemeanor 243 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:34,480 Speaker 3: as well. But what the Manhattan DA is arguing is 244 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 3: that the two misdemeanors, when taken together, add up to 245 00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 3: thirty four felony charges and a maximum sentence of one 246 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,719 Speaker 3: hundred and thirty six years in prison for Trump. And 247 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 3: so which is really I mean, it's a bootstrap strap 248 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:52,959 Speaker 3: that is an extraordinary bootstrap. But what is even more 249 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 3: amazing is it's not clear what the judge is going 250 00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,480 Speaker 3: to instruct the jury about the so called object crime. 251 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 3: In other words, do they have to agree on what 252 00:13:03,360 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 3: the object crime is. And first of all, what is 253 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 3: the object crime? Is there only one? Are there more 254 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 3: than one? Does the object crime require an object crime 255 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 3: of its own? What level of proof do the prosecutors 256 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 3: have to have to reach before they can find Trump guilty? Remember, 257 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 3: ordinarily in a criminal case you have to prove beyond 258 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 3: a reasonable doubt. Well, do they have to prove the 259 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,680 Speaker 3: object crime behind a reasonable doubt? And does the object 260 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 3: crime even have to be a crime? And all of 261 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 3: these were argued about before the judge. So last Tuesday, 262 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:40,360 Speaker 3: both sets of lawyers met with a judge and there 263 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 3: was a lot of discussion about the most frequently mentioned 264 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 3: object crime, which is the New York State election law, 265 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 3: outlawing the promotion of an election by unlawful means. And 266 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:54,559 Speaker 3: the question is what does unlawful means? Now, the prosecutors 267 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 3: cite an alleged violation of the Federal Election Campaign Act. 268 00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 3: And remember we talked about in a previous pot how 269 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 3: the judge would not allow Brad Smith, the former chairman 270 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,880 Speaker 3: of the Federal Election Commission, to testify about the Federal 271 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 3: Election Campaign Act. Now, typically violations of that act are 272 00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 3: a civil matter. Would a civil matter be an object 273 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 3: to crime. Well, there was a back and forth about 274 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 3: whether it could be a civil offense or if it 275 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 3: had to be actually a crime, and that also led 276 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 3: to a discussion. And we'll see what the jury instructions 277 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 3: say about the men's raya and in particular whether it 278 00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,560 Speaker 3: has to be a willful violation the Trump The Trump 279 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 3: lawyers wanted the judge to tell the jury that they 280 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 3: must find that Trump willfully violated the law, which means 281 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 3: that he specifically knew what he was doing was a crime, 282 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 3: and that he did it anyway. And so here's what 283 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 3: Andrew McCarthy, who's a very very experienced federal prosecutor and 284 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 3: commentator and a good friend, here's what he wrote about that. 285 00:14:53,720 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 3: He wrote, quote, whenever a crime is alleged, prosecutors must 286 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 3: prove criminal intent. Wilfulness is the most burdensome intent standard 287 00:15:01,680 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 3: in the criminal law. Prosecutors to prove that the defendant 288 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,280 Speaker 3: was aware of a legal duty and intentionally violated that duty. 289 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 3: So those questions, and by the way, what did DOJ say. 290 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 3: DOJ came in and argued, no, no, no, no, we don't have 291 00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 3: to prove any of that. Instead, they said that the 292 00:15:19,040 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 3: underlying crime. The unlawful means doesn't have to be a crime. 293 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 3: It doesn't have to be a criminal matter. And DOJ argued, quote, 294 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 3: by its plain meaning, unlawful doesn't mean criminal, it means 295 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 3: violation of law. That's what Michael Colangelo, who was one 296 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 3: of the top officials at the Biden Justice Department and 297 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 3: who left to join this rabid partisan DA's legal team. 298 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 3: Colangelo argued, quote, the plain text of the statute provides 299 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 3: that election law conspiracy occurred when the intended results are 300 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 3: executed through unlawful means. Because it doesn't need to be 301 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 3: criminal unlawful means, there's no need to add the word 302 00:15:54,960 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 3: wilful into the jury's instructions. So the prosecution's position in 303 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 3: the object crime is it doesn't have to be a crime, 304 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 3: and he doesn't They don't have to prove that he 305 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 3: intended to commit a crime, and that it doesn't have 306 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,880 Speaker 3: to be even a criminal act. It could be a 307 00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 3: civil violation of the Federal Election Campaign Act. Now, Trump's 308 00:16:16,760 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 3: lawyers came back and said, I think quite sensibly, for 309 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,960 Speaker 3: this to be a criminal conspiracy, there has to be 310 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 3: a criminal object Otherwise, quote, we just have a civil conspiracy, 311 00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:36,120 Speaker 3: that it can't be used to elevate this into a felony. 312 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 3: The judge said he was reserving decision on the willfully issue. 313 00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:46,240 Speaker 3: So what the standard of intent is is going to 314 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 3: be a big deal. Now, there were separately a debate 315 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,000 Speaker 3: about whether there has to be one object crime. Does 316 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 3: the jury all have to agree on one object crime 317 00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:57,840 Speaker 3: or could there be several, which with each juror finding 318 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,840 Speaker 3: a different object crime and say I like that one, 319 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:02,920 Speaker 3: so I'll use it to elevate it to a fellow. No, No, 320 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 3: I like that one. And what are the prosecutors have 321 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 3: to have to prove? Now, Colangelo argued, quote, the people 322 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 3: weren't required to identify any object crime, so you could 323 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 3: be have it be whatever you want it. Trump lawyers 324 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 3: responded that, quote, the jury cannot infer that the unlawful 325 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,040 Speaker 3: means is established just by the fact that there was 326 00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 3: an agreement to promote Presidents Trump's election in twenty sixteen. 327 00:17:30,280 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 3: Of course there was, he won. They have to establish 328 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 3: some kind of unlawful means to make that a crime. 329 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:41,960 Speaker 3: So these questions are a big, big deal. And as 330 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,160 Speaker 3: we sit here today, we don't know how the judge 331 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 3: is going to resolve it. But if the judge sends 332 00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 3: it to the jury and says the prosecution doesn't have 333 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,960 Speaker 3: to prove beyond reasonable doubt the object crime, it doesn't 334 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 3: have to be a crime at all. You don't have 335 00:17:54,440 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 3: to decide what the object crime is. Each one of 336 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,919 Speaker 3: you can pick a different object crime. That really illustrates 337 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 3: how the jury instructions can stack the deck for the prosecution. 338 00:18:04,560 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 3: My strong suspicions is we're going to see some pretty 339 00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 3: messed up jury instructions today, but we'll find out when 340 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 3: the judge gives them. 341 00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:15,760 Speaker 2: So you look at all these counts, and I've seen 342 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 2: this really pick up steam on seeing NMSNBC and the others, 343 00:18:20,720 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 2: and it's the look, we don't have to basically get 344 00:18:24,560 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 2: Trump on everything. We just need to get him on something, 345 00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 2: and with so many charges against him, the jury will 346 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:35,399 Speaker 2: probably this is my words, what they were pontificating about 347 00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 2: is that they're going to find something to convict him on. 348 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 2: And that's all we really want here. Is that a 349 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,840 Speaker 2: real strategy, Like hey, throw the book at him and 350 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 2: eventually like there's enough smoke, there's fire. They don't like him, 351 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:48,960 Speaker 2: and they're like, all right, we'll let him go on 352 00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:50,120 Speaker 2: a lot of this stuff, but we're going to nail 353 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:51,000 Speaker 2: at least on something. 354 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, look, that is possible. I don't think that's likely. 355 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 3: I think it's likely to be binary. I think you're 356 00:18:57,720 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 3: either going to have one or more jurors that say 357 00:18:59,840 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 3: this is all crap, this is garbage, no, or it's 358 00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,440 Speaker 3: going to be a partisan jury that says we hate 359 00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 3: Donald Trump and he's guilty on everything. I think it 360 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 3: is likely to be one or the other. So actually, 361 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 3: really one of three that you could get guilty on 362 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:15,479 Speaker 3: all of them, you could get not guilty on all 363 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 3: of them, or a hung jury. 364 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:21,720 Speaker 2: If you get the hung jury and you get the appeal, 365 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 2: So there's no appeal from hung jury. Okay, So no 366 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,720 Speaker 2: appeal from hung jury, just okay. So hung jury is 367 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 2: a victory by default. Yes, but the prosecution can bring 368 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 2: the case again. It could literally start all over. 369 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: And that could and that can happen how quickly. 370 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 3: As quickly as the judge wants to. The judge would 371 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:45,040 Speaker 3: have to panel a different jury. So a hung jury means, okay, 372 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 3: we didn't get to a result, thank you jurors for serving, 373 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 3: and you know, the judge could say, all right, next 374 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,440 Speaker 3: week we're gonna start vardire and we're going to bring 375 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 3: in potential jurors and get going again. I doubt it 376 00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 3: would happen that fast, but it conceivably could. 377 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 2: If you're trying to influence the outcoming election and tying 378 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:05,800 Speaker 2: Trump up in office, and that's your goal, then it 379 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:07,440 Speaker 2: would make sense. Right you would want to do it 380 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,760 Speaker 2: pretty quickly, and seven weeks can turn into fourteen weeks, 381 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 2: fifteen weeks where you can't campaign. What would be the 382 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 2: political fallout of this? And this is where I want 383 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,120 Speaker 2: you to put on a different hat. I look at 384 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:24,440 Speaker 2: this and I think they're messing with fire here. I 385 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 2: think that this is a There could be massive political fallout. 386 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 2: Democrats are obviously hoping for a conviction so they can 387 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 2: then and this has been reported now in leak the 388 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 2: White House that they're preparing for the president to make 389 00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 2: a statement from the White House. So will quote look 390 00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 2: non political being at the White House. If Trump is convicted, 391 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 2: if it is a hung jury, or if he is innocent, innocent, 392 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,479 Speaker 2: found innocent, how do the politics of all those three 393 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:52,920 Speaker 2: scenarios play out for them? 394 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 3: Well, this is all politics, This is not law, This 395 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,200 Speaker 3: is not a real criminal offense. There's no human being 396 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 3: on planet Earth who would besecuted for these boloney charges 397 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:03,879 Speaker 3: if they were not named Donald J. 398 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: Trump. 399 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 3: And so of course the Biden White House is salivating now. 400 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 3: They're fairly clottish and announcing, Oh, the President's going to 401 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 3: do it addressed from the White House. He's hoping to 402 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 3: be reveling in. You know, Donald Trump is a felon. 403 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,879 Speaker 3: We now know that. Who knows how gleeful he will be. 404 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,920 Speaker 3: But it's all about politics, you know. I do think 405 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 3: Democrats are dismayed. They really had hoped this trial would 406 00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 3: drag Trump through the mud and his numbers would plummet, 407 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:33,760 Speaker 3: and his numbers continue to be strong. He's leading in 408 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 3: virtually every swing state. So I think democrats, you know, 409 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,320 Speaker 3: there was a big story this week about Democrats panicking 410 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,560 Speaker 3: about how badly Biden's doing. I will say, if there's 411 00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 3: a hung jury and the prosecution says, okay, we're going 412 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 3: to go do it again, I think there will be 413 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:54,959 Speaker 3: a lot of exasperation expressed politically. But I think at 414 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,760 Speaker 3: the end of the day, this trial has not accomplished 415 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 3: what the rabid partisans wanted it to accomplish. But I 416 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,959 Speaker 3: don't even know that they can see that Trump derangement 417 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:10,399 Speaker 3: syndrome is real. There are people who's mind has melted. 418 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 3: Let's give it an example. Robert de Niro decided, you 419 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,600 Speaker 3: know what this country really needs is an angry left 420 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 3: wing Hollywood actor outside the trial, and he kind of 421 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 3: lost it. He had a meltdown. Give a listen to 422 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 3: what de Niro said outside the trial. 423 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 4: Under Trump, this kind of government will perish from the earth. 424 00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: I don't mean to scare you. 425 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 4: No, no, wait, maybe I do mean to scare you. 426 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 4: If Trump returns to the White House, you can kiss 427 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:44,159 Speaker 4: these freedoms goodbye that we all take for granted, and 428 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:48,080 Speaker 4: elections forget about it. That's over, that's done. If he 429 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 4: gets in, I can tell you right now he will 430 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 4: never leave. He will never leave. 431 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: You know that he will never leave. By the way, 432 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 1: isn't that what they said last time? 433 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 2: If Donald Trump got elected, he would never leave and 434 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:06,880 Speaker 2: he wasn't gonna leave office, And yet he did. 435 00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 3: I gotta say what I'm most happy listening to it 436 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,920 Speaker 3: is he stands there and goes forget about it, Like yo, 437 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:16,880 Speaker 3: I'm in New York. I'm playing a muchstance. He gonna 438 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:18,320 Speaker 3: leave forget about it. 439 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's that's that's de Niro for you. And 440 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 2: I love how they roll out these stars like they're 441 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 2: trying to bring attention to this, hoping that it's their 442 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 2: best political wet dream they've ever had, which is Donald 443 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 2: Trump is convicted. And then that brings me to my 444 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 2: final question on this. Let's say Trump is convicted. It's 445 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,399 Speaker 2: been leaked that the Secret Service has been talking with 446 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 2: the prison system about how they would incarcerate Donald Trump. 447 00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:50,680 Speaker 2: Can you run from prison if you're incarcerated, if hypothetically 448 00:23:50,720 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 2: that happened, how does that work? 449 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,360 Speaker 3: Well, look, there is no legal bar, there's no constitutional 450 00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:00,639 Speaker 3: bar uh to a felon being elected president. There's no 451 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 3: legal or constitutional bar to someone in jail being elected president. Now, 452 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,200 Speaker 3: I do not believe Donald Trump will go to jail. 453 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 3: That will not be the outcome. I think even this 454 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 3: rabbid partisan judge would allow him to be be free 455 00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,040 Speaker 3: while the appeal was pending. And I think if they 456 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 3: tried to put him in jail, you would see an 457 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 3: emergency appeal. And I do not think he is going 458 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 3: to jail. So I think that is is in the 459 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 3: rabbit fantasies of left wing delusions. But I think if 460 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 3: they did actually put him in jail, I mean I 461 00:24:35,080 --> 00:24:37,760 Speaker 3: said this on a previous pod. If they did actually 462 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,719 Speaker 3: put him in jail, I think he'd win the presidency 463 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 3: with three hundred and more electoral votes. 464 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:42,480 Speaker 1: Yeah. 465 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,440 Speaker 2: And the crazy thing is, we've been talking so much 466 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 2: about this case. There's another very big case that starts 467 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,119 Speaker 2: with Hunter Biden. I want to get into that, but 468 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,679 Speaker 2: first I want to take a moment and say thank you. 469 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 2: So many of you that are Verdict listeners have gotten 470 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 2: involved with an incredible organization called Preborn. Preborn is helping 471 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:11,640 Speaker 2: save the lives of countless unborn babies. 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That's pound two 489 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 2: fifty and say the keyword baby. That's pound two fifty, 490 00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:31,920 Speaker 2: say the keyword baby. Or you can also donate securely 491 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 2: online at preborn dot com slash verdict. That's preborn dot 492 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 2: com slash verdict. Into all you that have already gotten involved, 493 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,920 Speaker 2: thank you so much for being involved in fighting back 494 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 2: against the radicals at Planned parenthood. All right, Senator, I 495 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 2: want to get to the other big case, and it 496 00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,119 Speaker 2: is a very big case. It is a case that 497 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,879 Speaker 2: apparently is so nerve wracked in the White House. It 498 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,840 Speaker 2: looks like the President could have been involved in witness tampering. 499 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 2: Ahead of the trial of his son, Hunter Biden. Let's 500 00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 2: talk about that. 501 00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. So this trial begins on Monday, June third. 502 00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 3: Hunter Biden is going to face a federal trial for 503 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:20,719 Speaker 3: his gun crimes and one of the key witnesses is 504 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 3: going to be Halle Biden. Now who is Halle Biden. 505 00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 3: Halle Biden is the widow of Bo Biden, Hunter's older 506 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:35,679 Speaker 3: brother who tragically passed away of cancer, and also the 507 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:41,520 Speaker 3: ex girlfriend of Hunter Biden, and Halle Biden is expected 508 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:45,880 Speaker 3: to be a key witness. And Sunday night, Joe Biden 509 00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 3: stopped by Halle's house. It was about eight pm on 510 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:54,600 Speaker 3: Sunday night. Joe Biden came by and Halle was dating 511 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,520 Speaker 3: Hunter at the time of the crimes, and she's one 512 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 3: of the expected witnesses. She was married to Bo Biden. 513 00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:06,199 Speaker 3: He died in twenty fifteen of brain cancer, and the 514 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:11,040 Speaker 3: prosecutors alleged that Hunter lied about his drug use on 515 00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:14,720 Speaker 3: the gun purchase forms and then that he illegally possessed 516 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 3: at least one gun, which Hallie is alleged to have 517 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 3: thrown in a public dumpster in twenty eighteen. So she's 518 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:24,560 Speaker 3: the one who allegedly got rid of the evidence, and 519 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:30,320 Speaker 3: so she's not just a witness, she is a central 520 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,240 Speaker 3: witness in the case. And the White House spokesman when 521 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,200 Speaker 3: asked about, gosh, why is Joe Biden visiting one of 522 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 3: the key witnesses in the case against his son eight 523 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 3: days before the trial, they said, no, no, no, he visited 524 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 3: her because of the approaching ninth anniversary of Bo's passing. Now, 525 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 3: I got to say that is that strikes me as 526 00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:03,000 Speaker 3: a highly dubious explanation, naturally raises the question, gosh, did 527 00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:08,160 Speaker 3: he did he visit Hally before the eighth anniversary? Before 528 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 3: the seventh anniversary is sixth, fifth, fourth, third, second, first, 529 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 3: And if he did, I'm unaware of it. And you 530 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 3: certainly would think the White House if if that was 531 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,480 Speaker 3: their line and he had visited her at any time previously, 532 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 3: you sure do think the White House would have pointed 533 00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:27,600 Speaker 3: it out. But they didn't. And and I got to say, 534 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 3: for the President of the United States, listen, when the 535 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 3: president travels, the president never travels quietly. It's not subtle. 536 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 3: You come in with a motorcade with secret service, and 537 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,400 Speaker 3: so for him to go it's it's brazen. 538 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,720 Speaker 1: It is Joe. 539 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 3: Biden and the Biden family feels that they are not 540 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 3: bound they behave as if they feel that they're not 541 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,200 Speaker 3: bound by criminal law, by any any restrictions, that that 542 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,960 Speaker 3: he's entitled to go. And the natural presumption is that 543 00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:00,240 Speaker 3: he had a conversation with her about what she was 544 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 3: going to say whence she testifies. 545 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, right, it would be important. Hey we want to 546 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 2: know what you're going to say, or Hey, here's what 547 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,960 Speaker 2: we need you to say. If anyone else was in 548 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 2: this scenario, what traditionally would happen when before a trial 549 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 2: if everyone found out about the same way we did, 550 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 2: regardless of an alibi, If Trump would have done this, 551 00:30:22,000 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 2: if I was on trial or you were on trial 552 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 2: and we were going to meet with somebody that's about 553 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:27,880 Speaker 2: to be a witness and testimony for a kid, like, 554 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 2: what would happen. 555 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 3: Well, you would expect the judge to make an inquiry 556 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 3: of why were you Why were you meeting with this person? 557 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:40,000 Speaker 3: Who expect the prosecutor to make an inquiry as to 558 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:44,200 Speaker 3: why were you meeting with this witness? Did you discuss 559 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,440 Speaker 3: did you discuss what her testimony was going to be? 560 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 3: So witness temp tampering is attempting to improperly influence or 561 00:30:55,200 --> 00:31:00,120 Speaker 3: change the testimony of a witness within criminal proceedings. And 562 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:06,680 Speaker 3: it we don't know that that happened. But the United States, 563 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:10,400 Speaker 3: a federal crime a witness tamper. It's decided defined by statute. 564 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:15,080 Speaker 3: It's eighteen USC. Section fifteen twelve, which is entitled quote 565 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:19,840 Speaker 3: tampering with a witness, victim, or an informant, and it 566 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 3: describes witness tampering is a crime even if the proceedings 567 00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 3: not pending, and it is a criminal offense even if 568 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 3: you are unsuccessful in your attempt to tamper. In other words, 569 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 3: if you try to convince the witness, hey, you know, 570 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,719 Speaker 3: it really help if you testify to X, even though 571 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:40,840 Speaker 3: X isn't the case. The witness might not do what 572 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 3: you said, but it is still witness tampering. And and 573 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 3: that's a natural question. Now I'm quite confident the Department 574 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 3: of Justice is not going to inquire of Joe Biden, 575 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,160 Speaker 3: what conversation did you have with a witness? They might 576 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 3: ask her, It is possible they ask her, but I 577 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 3: think there's no indication that the DOJ or the trial 578 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 3: court is got to even ask what Joe Biden said 579 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:08,560 Speaker 3: to her. 580 00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and the media was silent on this, excluding Fox News, 581 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 2: which broke this story. 582 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: Here's how they reported it. 583 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 5: President Biden also made a surprise, unannounced stop at Hallie 584 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:22,840 Speaker 5: Biden's house in Delaware last night. She is bo Biden's 585 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:26,040 Speaker 5: widow and Hunter Biden's ex girlfriend, who was also set 586 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:30,840 Speaker 5: to testify in Hunter Biden's gun trial in Delaware that 587 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:34,800 Speaker 5: begins next week. White House officials are saying this presidential 588 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 5: visit to her house had nothing to do with that testimony. 589 00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 5: They say it has to do with the upcoming ninth 590 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 5: anniversary of bo Biden's passing. 591 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 2: Jillian all Right, by the way, how often does the 592 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 2: President United States of America make a surprise, unannounced visit 593 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,680 Speaker 2: in and around Washington, d C. In a massive motorcade. 594 00:32:52,840 --> 00:32:54,920 Speaker 2: That has not happen very often. 595 00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,720 Speaker 3: So, look, it is certainly possible. Presidents do have family, 596 00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:04,600 Speaker 3: they visit their family. So I don't know the frequency 597 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 3: with which Joe Biden visits other members of the family 598 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:14,680 Speaker 3: and that presidents do that. What they don't do with 599 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 3: great frequency is do it right before you do it 600 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 3: when you're meeting with a key witness who is about 601 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,160 Speaker 3: to testify in the trial against your son that that 602 00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:30,440 Speaker 3: is a dramatically different context, and it raises obvious questions, 603 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,880 Speaker 3: questions that the media seems completely uninterested in asking, and 604 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,840 Speaker 3: that I expect the Biden Department of Justice is completely 605 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:38,920 Speaker 3: uninterested in asking. 606 00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 2: I was asked this question the other day and I 607 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 2: hadn't actually thought about it yet. And I was asked 608 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,080 Speaker 2: this question when I was on Fox and they said, 609 00:33:46,400 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 2: if Hunter Biden is convicted at either of these trials, 610 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,920 Speaker 2: will it have any impact on the presidential election? My 611 00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 2: personal opinion, I said, is instantly, I was like, no, 612 00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:00,160 Speaker 2: I don't think so. I think most people know who 613 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 2: Hunter Biden is. They know he clearly has been trading 614 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,959 Speaker 2: off the family's name. They know he's a drug He 615 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,560 Speaker 2: was a drug addic and did a lot of really 616 00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 2: bad things. We've seen the laptop. It's pretty darn clear. Well, 617 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,719 Speaker 2: it does believe it's going to make a difference. So 618 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 2: in the presential action, do you believe that it will 619 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 2: or won't. 620 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, And there's a second trial that is set to 621 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:27,080 Speaker 3: begin in September. It's in Los Angeles and it's for 622 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,200 Speaker 3: allegedly failing to pay more than one point four million 623 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,080 Speaker 3: dollars in federal taxes from twenty sixteen to twenty nineteen, 624 00:34:34,120 --> 00:34:37,320 Speaker 3: so you'll have two different trials that are scheduled. Listen, 625 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:41,719 Speaker 3: if the president's son is convicted. And now remember, initially 626 00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,000 Speaker 3: DOJ tried to give him a sweetheart deal where he 627 00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:48,320 Speaker 3: wouldn't go to jail, and ultimately that that fell apart. 628 00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:52,760 Speaker 3: Hunter originally agreed to a probation only deal to both 629 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:55,200 Speaker 3: the gun and tax crimes in June, but he walked 630 00:34:55,200 --> 00:34:58,880 Speaker 3: away from the sweetheart deal at a July court hearing 631 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 3: where his attorneys demanded broad immunity a past conduct of 632 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:08,840 Speaker 3: all past conduct, including violations of the Foreign Agents Registration Act, 633 00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 3: which could implicate his father, And so he walked away 634 00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,800 Speaker 3: from a deal that would have gotten him largely scott free, 635 00:35:15,239 --> 00:35:18,680 Speaker 3: but it wasn't. And remember, I think that the judge 636 00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,960 Speaker 3: may well have signed off on that deal, but there 637 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,600 Speaker 3: was enormous public scrutiny on it, and I think that 638 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 3: the judge decided, now, we can't do this. 639 00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,480 Speaker 2: Well, and even then he was gonna admit he was 640 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,839 Speaker 2: guilty in that deal. So there's also it's been out 641 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:37,400 Speaker 2: there in the media like, hey, he was going to 642 00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,280 Speaker 2: to get the deal. He's a many he was guilty 643 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 2: of these two crimes, which in many ways insulate his father. 644 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,759 Speaker 2: So if he's convicted this time, I'm not sure with 645 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 2: a lot of Democratic voters it'll matter. Yeah. 646 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:52,279 Speaker 3: Look, I don't think that that Hunter Biden is guilty 647 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,920 Speaker 3: of gun crimes and tax evasions. Any rational person knows 648 00:35:56,960 --> 00:35:59,880 Speaker 3: that already. That's kind of maked into the cake. I 649 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,560 Speaker 3: agree with you, it doesn't alter the election. What this 650 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:07,800 Speaker 3: has always been about is protecting Joe and the relevance. 651 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,400 Speaker 3: We've talked about this a lot, although it's been a 652 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,280 Speaker 3: while since we've talked about on the podcast. Look, Hunter 653 00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 3: Biden is not someone of public interest separate and apart 654 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:20,760 Speaker 3: from his father. You know, he is a troubled soul 655 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,600 Speaker 3: who seems to have struggled his whole life, which is 656 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,840 Speaker 3: the entire White House defense that he has substance abuse 657 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 3: problems and he's just had a hard time, And I 658 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,840 Speaker 3: don't have no reason to doubt that. That surely seems 659 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 3: to be the case. But the reason it is a 660 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 3: public import is that the evidence at this point keeps 661 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,280 Speaker 3: piling up that his entire business model was selling favors 662 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 3: from his father, was corruption. The reason this matters is 663 00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:51,719 Speaker 3: Joe Biden, not Hunter Biden, and these two trials are 664 00:36:51,760 --> 00:36:55,799 Speaker 3: designed to insulate and protect Joe Biden, not to bring 665 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,640 Speaker 3: him in at all. And as long as Joe Biden 666 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:05,080 Speaker 3: is not directly implicated, I don't think Hunter's being convicted 667 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 3: will have any material effect on the election. Listen, if 668 00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:12,160 Speaker 3: his son goes to jail, that may be a very 669 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 3: difficult thing personally for Joe Biden and emotionally for Joe Biden. 670 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, the Biden DOJ 671 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 3: succeeded in what I think its principal goal was, which 672 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 3: is protecting the big guy and ensuring that there's no 673 00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:30,040 Speaker 3: investigation into corruption by the sitting president. 674 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:34,759 Speaker 2: Final question on this, what is the possibility of pardons 675 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:36,880 Speaker 2: for Hunter Biden by his father. 676 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 3: Before the election? I think zero. After the election, I 677 00:37:43,560 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 3: think if Trump wins, I would wager large sums of 678 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,480 Speaker 3: money before he leaves off as Joe Biden pardons his son. 679 00:37:51,080 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 2: And there'd be no political fallout for him because he's 680 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:54,520 Speaker 2: not running for reelection again. 681 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, if he's leaving, it would be it would be 682 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,840 Speaker 3: a Bill Clinton Midnight pardon special. And I think, particularly 683 00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:06,640 Speaker 3: if he loses, it's almost a no brainer that Joe 684 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 3: Biden would do it. He might even do it if 685 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,280 Speaker 3: he wins, but there it's a more costly decision because 686 00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 3: he'd pay a political price for it, even if as 687 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 3: he was starting a second term. 688 00:38:16,120 --> 00:38:17,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's going to be very interesting to see how 689 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 2: this plays out. We're going to keep you up to 690 00:38:20,440 --> 00:38:22,440 Speaker 2: date on it. Don't forget we do the show Monday, 691 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:26,440 Speaker 2: Wednesday and Friday. Hit that subscribe auto down with button 692 00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,560 Speaker 2: in on those in between days, make sure you grab 693 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,040 Speaker 2: my podcast, the Ben Ferguson Podcasts, and I will keep 694 00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 2: you up to date on the breaking news in both 695 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,879 Speaker 2: of these cases, in between and the Center. I will 696 00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 2: see you back here on Friday morning.