WEBVTT - An Update on Autonomous Vehicles

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to tech Stuff, a production from I Heart Radio.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey there, and welcome to tech Stuff. I'm your host,

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<v Speaker 1>Jonathan Strickland and how the tech are you? Now? Before

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<v Speaker 1>And I really wanted to cover this topic and give

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<v Speaker 1>a bit of an update because I feel it's one

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<v Speaker 1>that is often misunderstood and frequently misrepresented. Um and that

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<v Speaker 1>is the different levels of autonomous driving and the state

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<v Speaker 1>of autonomous driving where we're at. I occasionally do these

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<v Speaker 1>updates because I think it's very easy to get lost

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<v Speaker 1>in marketing and pr speak and even some you know,

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<v Speaker 1>political movements that suggests we might be further along than

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<v Speaker 1>where we really are now. First of all, let's get

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<v Speaker 1>this out of the way. Developing autonomous vehicle technology is

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<v Speaker 1>a good idea. Here in the United States, the National

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<v Speaker 1>Highway Traffic Safety Administration or n h t s A

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<v Speaker 1>tracks the number of motor vehicle traffic fatalities year over year.

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<v Speaker 1>The number of deaths due to vehicle accidents is always

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<v Speaker 1>in the thirty thousand range or higher. So that means

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<v Speaker 1>more than thirty thousand people here in the United States

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<v Speaker 1>die every year due to traffic accidents, and if you

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<v Speaker 1>just skim recent figures, that really reveals something counterintuitive. The

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<v Speaker 1>year with the most traffic fatalities over the last decade

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<v Speaker 1>is twenty twenty. Now I should add that I could

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<v Speaker 1>not find an estimate for one, not for the full year,

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<v Speaker 1>only for part of the year, so one very well

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<v Speaker 1>might have taken the title away from twenty twenty. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>the first year of the pandemic saw the most traffic

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<v Speaker 1>fatalities in more than a decade. And you might imagine

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<v Speaker 1>that fatalities for that year would actually be down due

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<v Speaker 1>to more people staying at home, But you're wrong. The

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<v Speaker 1>total that year was thirty eight thousand, six hundred eighty

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<v Speaker 1>estimated deaths. The next highest year would be back in

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<v Speaker 1>sixteen that had thirty seven thousand, eight hundred six deaths,

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<v Speaker 1>almost a thousand fewer. The n h T s A

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<v Speaker 1>also figures out that the fatality rate per one hundred

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<v Speaker 1>million vehicle miles traveled is a good metric. Uh. This

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<v Speaker 1>is v MT, which essentially tells you how frequent do

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<v Speaker 1>these accidents occur, how many millions of miles are are

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<v Speaker 1>happening in between these fatalities. Keeping in mind that's across

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<v Speaker 1>the entire United States, so it's taking into account all

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<v Speaker 1>the vehicles traveling across the country, and again had the

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<v Speaker 1>highest frequency over the last decade with an astonishing one

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<v Speaker 1>point three seven fatalities per one hundred million vehicle miles traveled.

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<v Speaker 1>The next highest on that goes all the way back

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<v Speaker 1>to two thousand eight with one point to six. So

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<v Speaker 1>keep in mind like that means more than a decade

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<v Speaker 1>of innovation and improvements in driver assist features and things

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<v Speaker 1>of that nature ended up not making a difference because

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<v Speaker 1>we saw more fatalities per miles traveled than ever well

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<v Speaker 1>at least since two thousand eight, Because that's as far

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<v Speaker 1>back as as the the sheet I was looking at

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<v Speaker 1>wind So people were driving less in but they were

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<v Speaker 1>dying in accidents more frequently. And it didn't get better

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<v Speaker 1>in one either. During the first nine months of one,

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<v Speaker 1>traffic fatalities rose by twelve percent. So within those first

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<v Speaker 1>nine months there were an estimated thirty one thou seven

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<v Speaker 1>twenty deaths. Again just nine months, not a full year. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>I do not have more recent data to pull from,

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<v Speaker 1>so I'm not certain how the year ended out, but

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<v Speaker 1>that statistic is terrible and sobering. Here's another bad statistic.

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<v Speaker 1>The c d C says that road traffic crashes are

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<v Speaker 1>a leading cause of death here in the United States

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<v Speaker 1>for people aged one to fifty four. Now, these deaths

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<v Speaker 1>clearly have a massive impact. Beyond the obvious tragedy of

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<v Speaker 1>losing someone or multiple someone's in a crash. There's the

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<v Speaker 1>impact on that person's family and friends. That's an incredible

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<v Speaker 1>emotional impact on them. If that someone who died in

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<v Speaker 1>the crash were employed, well, there's an impact on their

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<v Speaker 1>job and on the economy as well. There's this overall

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<v Speaker 1>economic impact due to fatalities and accidents in general. The

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<v Speaker 1>National Safety Council estimates that the average economic cost of

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<v Speaker 1>a traffic fatality is one point seven five million dollars

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<v Speaker 1>per incident. Now, this takes into account everything from medical expenses,

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<v Speaker 1>to motor vehicle damage, to insurance costs, to wage and

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<v Speaker 1>productivity losses, and more. So, if we take this average

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<v Speaker 1>figure of one point seven five million dollars and we

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<v Speaker 1>multiply it by the thirty eight thousand, six eight estimated

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<v Speaker 1>deaths in twenty twenty, we get an economic impact of

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<v Speaker 1>sixty seven point seven billion dollars. That's the cost of

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<v Speaker 1>those fatal traffic accidents. When you take in all traffic accidents,

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, the amount gets over two billion dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>So there are a lot of reasons we would want

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<v Speaker 1>to reduce or eliminate those traffic fatalities. I mean, first

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<v Speaker 1>and foremost, obviously, we don't want people to die. We

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<v Speaker 1>would rather not see that happen. We would rather those

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<v Speaker 1>people go on to lead healthy, productive lives, surrounded by

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<v Speaker 1>friends and family, and we would not want to see

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<v Speaker 1>that end. Less importantly, we would not want to see

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<v Speaker 1>that negative economic impact. And we also would rather not

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<v Speaker 1>have the thousand other problems that come with traffic accidents,

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<v Speaker 1>such as the effect on traffic congestion and that sort

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<v Speaker 1>of thing. And there's one more important fact to consider.

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<v Speaker 1>According to research, at least of all traffic accidents are

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<v Speaker 1>caused primarily by human error. In other words, it's not

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<v Speaker 1>a mechanical failure. It's not that a vehicle suddenly lost

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<v Speaker 1>functionality in some way and that that led to the accident.

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<v Speaker 1>More than are caused by someone making a mistake. And

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<v Speaker 1>that's at least Some research pushes that even higher. The

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<v Speaker 1>highest I have seen suggests that eight per cent of

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<v Speaker 1>all accidents are call by human error. Um, so somewhere

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<v Speaker 1>in that range is probably the truth. Right, That's still enormous,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's where the sales pitch for autonomous vehicles comes in.

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<v Speaker 1>Because what if you had a computer controlled vehicle capable

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<v Speaker 1>of traveling at a safe speed and a safe distance

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<v Speaker 1>from other vehicles. It would be able to pay equal

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<v Speaker 1>amounts of attention to all areas around the vehicle. It

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<v Speaker 1>wouldn't just be paying attention to wherever its eyes were,

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<v Speaker 1>because it would have eyes all over. They could react

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<v Speaker 1>much more quickly than any human could, and it could

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<v Speaker 1>take action that could avoid an accident. You would remove

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<v Speaker 1>human error as a contributing factor for accidents, and since

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<v Speaker 1>we know human error accounts for more than of accidents,

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<v Speaker 1>that would, by extension, eliminate the vast majority of accidents

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<v Speaker 1>on the road. If you had enough of these vehicles

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<v Speaker 1>on the road, perhaps not replacing all of them, but

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<v Speaker 1>having a significant percentage of vehicles being autonomous, you would

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<v Speaker 1>virtually eliminate traffic fatalities. That is the dream scenario. But

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<v Speaker 1>there are a lot of things standing between us and

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<v Speaker 1>that vision. I will go into that after we take

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<v Speaker 1>this quick break. Okay. To get to that vision of

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<v Speaker 1>the future where autonomous vehicles are taking us everywhere we

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<v Speaker 1>need to go and traffic fatalities are a distant memory,

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<v Speaker 1>we have to get the tech right first, and we

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<v Speaker 1>also have to get enough vehicles out on the road

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<v Speaker 1>to make a difference. One autonomous vehicle isn't going to

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<v Speaker 1>change the world. And I've seen a lot of different

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<v Speaker 1>research about this as well, some researchers saying that we

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<v Speaker 1>might need to reach a saturation point of about one

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<v Speaker 1>third autonomous vehicles to two thirds human driven vehicles to

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<v Speaker 1>start seeing massive changes and things like accidents and traffic congestion.

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<v Speaker 1>And then, of course, beyond that, we'd see even more improvements,

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<v Speaker 1>not necessarily at the same dramatic pace, like it might

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<v Speaker 1>level off more where we get sort of a diminishing

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<v Speaker 1>return situation. But when you're talking about saving lives, diminishing

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<v Speaker 1>return doesn't really have the same meaning, right, Every life

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<v Speaker 1>saved is significant. Now, when it comes to autonomy, at

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<v Speaker 1>least for vehicles, there is a spectrum, you know. There.

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<v Speaker 1>Autonomy is more like guidelines, as the pirates would say.

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<v Speaker 1>The Society of Automotive Engineers, which is a quote globally

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<v Speaker 1>active professional association and standards developing organization end quote, has

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<v Speaker 1>identified six levels of autonomy, ranging from zero to five,

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<v Speaker 1>and it is ascending in autonomy. So let's go through

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<v Speaker 1>those now. At levels zero, you have no driving automation

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<v Speaker 1>really of any significance. I used to think that level

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<v Speaker 1>zero just meant that you had complete manual control of

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<v Speaker 1>the vehicle and there were no driver assist features at all.

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<v Speaker 1>That's not the case. That was my mistake. That was

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<v Speaker 1>my misunderstanding of this designation. Uh, you could have cruise

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<v Speaker 1>control and it could still fall into a level zero category.

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<v Speaker 1>So basic cruise control would not be enough to move

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<v Speaker 1>a vehicle out of level zero designation to level one

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<v Speaker 1>because basic cruise control will maintain a set speed, but

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<v Speaker 1>it won't change it. Right, if there is a vehicle

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<v Speaker 1>that's ahead of you, the standard cruise control isn't enough

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<v Speaker 1>to detect that vehicle and change the speed. That would

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<v Speaker 1>have to be adaptive cruise control. That's different basic cruise control.

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<v Speaker 1>You're still at level zero. Back in the day, I

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<v Speaker 1>used to think that that would at least push you

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<v Speaker 1>to level one. No, not, according to the s A

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<v Speaker 1>The s A E says that any driver assist features

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<v Speaker 1>are in a level zero car are limited to quote

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<v Speaker 1>providing warnings and momentary assistance end quote. So you can

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<v Speaker 1>have like a lane correct feature, but if it's just

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<v Speaker 1>momentarily shifting the car, that still is considered a level

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<v Speaker 1>zero autonomous vehicle. Automatic emergency braking, lane departure warnings, all

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<v Speaker 1>that kind of stuff I'll just count as minimal driver assist.

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<v Speaker 1>So any vehicle having those features but nothing more extensive

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<v Speaker 1>than that, would still be level zero. So that's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the vehicles that are on the road today,

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<v Speaker 1>the vast majority of them, in fact. But let's go

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<v Speaker 1>on to level one, because we do have level one

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<v Speaker 1>and even level two autonomous vehicles on the road. So

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<v Speaker 1>a level one autonomous vehicle has the ability to take

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<v Speaker 1>over some duty that the driver would normally do, but

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<v Speaker 1>only one of those duties, and the human driver would

0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:57.840
<v Speaker 1>have to handle everything else. So, in other words, the

0:14:57.880 --> 0:15:01.400
<v Speaker 1>feature might be able to handle something like acceleration and braking,

0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:04.960
<v Speaker 1>or it might be able to handle steering, but it

0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:07.960
<v Speaker 1>would not be able to handle both of those, So

0:15:08.240 --> 0:15:10.760
<v Speaker 1>whichever one it handles, the human driver would have to

0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:15.200
<v Speaker 1>deal with the other. One adaptive cruise control that I

0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:18.240
<v Speaker 1>mentioned earlier, in which a vehicle handles acceleration and it

0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:20.920
<v Speaker 1>will ease off if it detects that it's approaching the

0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:23.520
<v Speaker 1>rear of a vehicle in front of it. That's an

0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:27.280
<v Speaker 1>example of a level one autonomous vehicle feature. It's handling

0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.160
<v Speaker 1>acceleration and braking, but it's not handling steering. The human

0:15:30.240 --> 0:15:35.520
<v Speaker 1>driver still still has to steer the vehicle in that scenario. Now,

0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:39.400
<v Speaker 1>if we move up to level to autonomy, we're now

0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:42.240
<v Speaker 1>at a phase where the vehicle can handle both the

0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:46.600
<v Speaker 1>acceleration and breaking activities as well as steering the vehicle

0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:50.760
<v Speaker 1>at the same time. However, a human driver must supervise

0:15:51.000 --> 0:15:55.600
<v Speaker 1>these and also intervene when necessary, as the vehicle will

0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:59.560
<v Speaker 1>not always be capable of avoiding an accident when something

0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:06.480
<v Speaker 1>out of the ordinary happens, or even something remotely unexpected happens.

0:16:06.520 --> 0:16:09.000
<v Speaker 1>So this would be a vehicle that can do both

0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:14.480
<v Speaker 1>adaptive cruise control and lane centering operations at the same time.

0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:17.520
<v Speaker 1>And honestly, this is where we're at with most of

0:16:17.520 --> 0:16:20.960
<v Speaker 1>the really sophisticated passenger vehicles that are on the market

0:16:21.040 --> 0:16:25.640
<v Speaker 1>right now. Tesla, even with its so called full self

0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:30.280
<v Speaker 1>driving feature, which is not full self driving, and Tesla

0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:34.960
<v Speaker 1>darnwell knows it. I have a longstanding issue with Tesla

0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:39.760
<v Speaker 1>and it's naming conventions. Calling its first driver assist support

0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:44.960
<v Speaker 1>sweet as autopilot when it's not really autopilot really upset me.

0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:49.240
<v Speaker 1>Full self driving is even worse because it the name

0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:53.720
<v Speaker 1>implies that the car just completely drives itself. That is

0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:56.880
<v Speaker 1>not the case. It still requires human supervision, and Tesla

0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.280
<v Speaker 1>says this to drivers. It says that you still have

0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:02.800
<v Speaker 1>to supervised the vehicle, that you can't just take your

0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:05.239
<v Speaker 1>hands off and go to sleep behind the wheel. You

0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:09.160
<v Speaker 1>have to maintain supervision and be ready to intervene. But

0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:14.160
<v Speaker 1>yet they insist on calling their features full self driving.

0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:19.080
<v Speaker 1>I just feel like that's misleading. Anyway, that is still

0:17:19.119 --> 0:17:24.320
<v Speaker 1>a level to autonomous feature. It means Tesla is on

0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:27.640
<v Speaker 1>the level two on the autonomous scale. It hasn't hit

0:17:27.720 --> 0:17:31.280
<v Speaker 1>level three yet. And from levels zero to two, the

0:17:31.359 --> 0:17:34.879
<v Speaker 1>job of monitoring the driving environment falls on the human

0:17:34.880 --> 0:17:39.119
<v Speaker 1>in the car. They are responsible for making sure that

0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:43.359
<v Speaker 1>the environment is safe. Uh that for at least whatever

0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:47.000
<v Speaker 1>operation the car is in at that time, and you

0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:49.879
<v Speaker 1>cannot offload that to the vehicle. The vehicle is not

0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:54.800
<v Speaker 1>capable of shouldering that accountability. So ultimately the person behind

0:17:54.840 --> 0:17:57.680
<v Speaker 1>the wheel is still responsible for their own safety and

0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:01.760
<v Speaker 1>for avoiding accidents. But now let's talk about levels three

0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:05.879
<v Speaker 1>through five, in which the vehicle's automated system is in

0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:09.760
<v Speaker 1>charge of monitoring the driving environment. So in this case,

0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:13.440
<v Speaker 1>the car is responsible or the vehicle I should say

0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:17.479
<v Speaker 1>not just car is responsible for monitoring what's going on

0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:22.639
<v Speaker 1>around it and then using that information to make important decisions.

0:18:23.320 --> 0:18:27.600
<v Speaker 1>So level three is called conditional automation, and that kind

0:18:27.640 --> 0:18:31.000
<v Speaker 1>of clues you into what's going on. So the vehicle

0:18:31.320 --> 0:18:36.480
<v Speaker 1>is capable of operating autonomously under certain conditions, but not

0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:41.960
<v Speaker 1>all conditions. So unless all autonomous conditions are met, the

0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:45.800
<v Speaker 1>vehicle will not operate an autonomous mode. A level three

0:18:45.800 --> 0:18:49.440
<v Speaker 1>autonomous vehicle will be able to make certain environmental decisions,

0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:53.800
<v Speaker 1>such as accelerating past a slower moving vehicle or maneuvering

0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:57.000
<v Speaker 1>through a traffic jam, which typically involves lots of starts

0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:01.119
<v Speaker 1>and stops and potentially lane changes. There are a couple

0:19:01.160 --> 0:19:05.439
<v Speaker 1>of vehicles that have received international acknowledgement as attaining level

0:19:05.640 --> 0:19:10.000
<v Speaker 1>three autonomy. There's a car called the Honda Legend, which

0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:13.119
<v Speaker 1>is only available as a least vehicle in Japan, so

0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:16.920
<v Speaker 1>unless you're in Japan, you're not likely to see one

0:19:17.080 --> 0:19:22.000
<v Speaker 1>or experience it. Mercedes Benz has received a regulatory approval

0:19:22.080 --> 0:19:25.920
<v Speaker 1>to manufacture level three autonomous vehicles that have its drive

0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:30.280
<v Speaker 1>pilot system installed. It's recently been updated and has met

0:19:30.320 --> 0:19:35.800
<v Speaker 1>international standards to be considered a level three autonomous system.

0:19:35.840 --> 0:19:39.840
<v Speaker 1>So with a level three vehicle, human intervention isn't needed

0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:43.680
<v Speaker 1>for most situations. It may still be required in edge

0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:48.719
<v Speaker 1>cases where things are unusual. Now, at level four autonomy,

0:19:48.960 --> 0:19:52.359
<v Speaker 1>an autonomous vehicle would in theory be able to react

0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:56.320
<v Speaker 1>to most circumstances without the need for human intervention. It

0:19:56.359 --> 0:20:00.720
<v Speaker 1>would not ask for human intervention, it would just react.

0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:04.720
<v Speaker 1>The vehicle would respond properly, able to discern what was

0:20:04.800 --> 0:20:08.920
<v Speaker 1>happening and then take the appropriate response. For example, such

0:20:08.920 --> 0:20:11.960
<v Speaker 1>a car would presumably be able to distinguish between a

0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:16.040
<v Speaker 1>trail of gosling's attempting to cross the road versus some

0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:19.320
<v Speaker 1>leaves being blown by the wind, and either it would

0:20:19.320 --> 0:20:22.560
<v Speaker 1>slow down to let the little goslings get across, or

0:20:22.600 --> 0:20:25.560
<v Speaker 1>it would just continue without worry because it's just some leaves.

0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:29.560
<v Speaker 1>And yeah, just saying that filled me with anxiety because

0:20:29.560 --> 0:20:31.840
<v Speaker 1>I think goslings are cute and the thought of a

0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:39.240
<v Speaker 1>car just driving through a crossing animal really really upsets

0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:43.200
<v Speaker 1>me on a deep level. However, a level for autonomous

0:20:43.280 --> 0:20:47.920
<v Speaker 1>vehicle would still be a conditionally autonomous vehicle, so there

0:20:47.920 --> 0:20:50.680
<v Speaker 1>would still be some conditions under which this vehicle would

0:20:50.680 --> 0:20:54.480
<v Speaker 1>not operate autonomously. And because this is the level that

0:20:54.520 --> 0:20:58.080
<v Speaker 1>the s a E considers to be appropriate for robo taxis,

0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:00.840
<v Speaker 1>it would mean that under a certain con asitions you

0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:03.920
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't be able to get a ride in a robotaxi.

0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:08.560
<v Speaker 1>Because if if conditions are wrong for autonomous operation, then

0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:11.679
<v Speaker 1>they won't they won't pick you up, right, They won't work.

0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.840
<v Speaker 1>Those conditions could include things like weather events like let's

0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:20.639
<v Speaker 1>say it's really pouring down rain and because of the

0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:25.280
<v Speaker 1>heavy precipitation, there's a fear that the vehicle's sensors won't

0:21:25.320 --> 0:21:31.000
<v Speaker 1>operate properly so it's unavailable. Or it could involve things

0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:34.399
<v Speaker 1>like geo fencing. That is, the vehicles can only operate

0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:38.240
<v Speaker 1>within a certain geographic area. Typically we're talking about a

0:21:38.280 --> 0:21:43.440
<v Speaker 1>specific town or specific city, or specific lane between two cities,

0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:47.000
<v Speaker 1>and the cars systems will not allow the vehicle to

0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:51.240
<v Speaker 1>venture beyond certain borders. In fact, we're gonna talk about

0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:53.760
<v Speaker 1>how geo fencing is one way that companies are looking

0:21:53.760 --> 0:21:57.720
<v Speaker 1>to tackle very tough engineering challenges in an effort to

0:21:57.720 --> 0:22:02.200
<v Speaker 1>bring robotaxis to various places. Also, at this level, things

0:22:02.240 --> 0:22:06.240
<v Speaker 1>like a steering wheel and or pedals like an acceleration

0:22:06.280 --> 0:22:09.359
<v Speaker 1>and brake pedal. Those might not even be installed in

0:22:09.400 --> 0:22:12.520
<v Speaker 1>a level for autonomous vehicle, so there would be no

0:22:12.600 --> 0:22:15.320
<v Speaker 1>controls for you to take over should you feel the

0:22:15.359 --> 0:22:17.560
<v Speaker 1>need to intervene. You would not have that option. You

0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:20.560
<v Speaker 1>might have a button to press that was like an

0:22:20.560 --> 0:22:23.400
<v Speaker 1>emergency stop feature where the car would then pull off

0:22:23.400 --> 0:22:26.080
<v Speaker 1>to the side and come to a halt, but that

0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:29.400
<v Speaker 1>might be it. So a level for autonomous vehicle should

0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:32.600
<v Speaker 1>be able to handle pretty much any situation that could

0:22:32.640 --> 0:22:37.879
<v Speaker 1>pop up under its operational conditions. And finally, we have

0:22:38.040 --> 0:22:41.639
<v Speaker 1>level five autonomy. Now at this level of vehicle under

0:22:41.680 --> 0:22:45.600
<v Speaker 1>any conditions would be able to operate autonomously. So this

0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:48.760
<v Speaker 1>is the level where a vehicle could go anywhere and

0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:52.640
<v Speaker 1>operate safely no matter what conditions might be present. Such

0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:55.680
<v Speaker 1>a vehicle might have no other controls in it and

0:22:55.760 --> 0:22:59.840
<v Speaker 1>handle absolutely everything by itself. We are nowhere close to

0:23:00.080 --> 0:23:05.080
<v Speaker 1>achieving level five autonomy right now. So when we come back,

0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:07.119
<v Speaker 1>we'll talk about some of the things that are holding

0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:10.479
<v Speaker 1>us back from full autonomy, and some of them are

0:23:10.480 --> 0:23:14.520
<v Speaker 1>technical and some of them are social and political. But

0:23:14.600 --> 0:23:26.840
<v Speaker 1>first let's take a quick break. Okay, let's talk limitations,

0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:30.439
<v Speaker 1>and we'll start with the technical. We've seen some pretty

0:23:30.560 --> 0:23:34.919
<v Speaker 1>dramatic improvements in sensor technology over the years, but the

0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:38.240
<v Speaker 1>fact is that under some conditions sensors can have trouble

0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:42.480
<v Speaker 1>detecting the environment effectively, particularly when you're talking about the

0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:46.359
<v Speaker 1>sensors being mounted to a platform that's moving at several

0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:50.119
<v Speaker 1>dozen miles per hour or kilometers per hour. So this

0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:54.359
<v Speaker 1>can include conditions like dense fog or heavy precipitation. Like

0:23:54.400 --> 0:23:57.879
<v Speaker 1>I mentioned earlier, it would be pretty dangerous to ride

0:23:57.960 --> 0:24:02.080
<v Speaker 1>in an autonomous vehicle that ends up mistaking fog for

0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:06.199
<v Speaker 1>a solid surface. For example, let's say that whatever technology

0:24:06.280 --> 0:24:09.520
<v Speaker 1>the sensors are using, the signals are bouncing back because

0:24:09.520 --> 0:24:13.159
<v Speaker 1>it's hitting the fog or the precipitation. A car like

0:24:13.200 --> 0:24:17.240
<v Speaker 1>that might start breaking suddenly, like applying the brakes suddenly,

0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:19.600
<v Speaker 1>and that could pose a hazard for vehicles that are

0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:23.840
<v Speaker 1>behind you. And since their limitations aren't a hypothetical either,

0:24:24.000 --> 0:24:28.399
<v Speaker 1>we've seen some tragic cases in which driver assist systems

0:24:28.600 --> 0:24:32.439
<v Speaker 1>failed to detect a danger and that led to loss

0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:38.120
<v Speaker 1>of life fatalities. I mean back in famously, a Tesler

0:24:38.280 --> 0:24:42.840
<v Speaker 1>driver named Joshua Brown was on a Florida divided highway.

0:24:43.000 --> 0:24:45.520
<v Speaker 1>So that's a highway that has a couple of lanes

0:24:45.520 --> 0:24:48.440
<v Speaker 1>going in one direction. Then you typically have a divider,

0:24:48.520 --> 0:24:51.800
<v Speaker 1>a median of some sort, and lanes going in another direction.

0:24:52.480 --> 0:24:56.400
<v Speaker 1>Uh and back in ten, Joshua Brown's on a Florida

0:24:56.480 --> 0:25:01.920
<v Speaker 1>divided highway. He had autopilot in his test engaged and

0:25:02.080 --> 0:25:04.480
<v Speaker 1>as he was traveling down there was a semi truck

0:25:04.920 --> 0:25:08.080
<v Speaker 1>that was pulling out of a driveway that was perpendicular

0:25:08.119 --> 0:25:12.679
<v Speaker 1>to the highway. The semi truck was crossing Brown's lanes

0:25:12.720 --> 0:25:15.760
<v Speaker 1>of traffic in an effort to make a left hand

0:25:15.840 --> 0:25:19.920
<v Speaker 1>turn to go the opposite direction down the highway, so

0:25:20.280 --> 0:25:24.679
<v Speaker 1>it was pulling across the lanes that Brown's vehicle was in,

0:25:26.040 --> 0:25:31.000
<v Speaker 1>uh the Tesla. Brown's Tesla failed to detect that there

0:25:31.119 --> 0:25:33.920
<v Speaker 1>was an obstacle in the way, so the Tesla did

0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:36.879
<v Speaker 1>not slow down and ended up colliding with the truck

0:25:36.960 --> 0:25:40.800
<v Speaker 1>and Brown died in that car accident. Now, back then,

0:25:41.359 --> 0:25:43.960
<v Speaker 1>Tesla was relying on systems that were provided by a

0:25:44.000 --> 0:25:49.320
<v Speaker 1>company called Mobile I, but Tesla subsequently ended that partnership

0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:53.959
<v Speaker 1>and then began to develop new sensor technology in house.

0:25:54.480 --> 0:25:59.280
<v Speaker 1>So the autopilot of today's Tesla's works on a totally

0:25:59.320 --> 0:26:02.960
<v Speaker 1>different techno logical platform then the one back in two

0:26:02.960 --> 0:26:07.000
<v Speaker 1>thousand sixteen. Because Tesla recognize that this is not something

0:26:07.000 --> 0:26:10.760
<v Speaker 1>that it can it can support and still expect to

0:26:10.760 --> 0:26:14.040
<v Speaker 1>be able to sell vehicles that have this autopilot feature

0:26:14.040 --> 0:26:17.359
<v Speaker 1>in them. Now that being said, we saw a near

0:26:17.520 --> 0:26:22.480
<v Speaker 1>identical tragedy occur in two thousand nineteen when Jeremy Banner,

0:26:22.880 --> 0:26:27.479
<v Speaker 1>also going down a divided highway, also in Florida, also

0:26:27.600 --> 0:26:31.800
<v Speaker 1>driving a Tesla that was in autopilot mode, also collided

0:26:31.840 --> 0:26:33.840
<v Speaker 1>with a semi truck that had pulled out to make

0:26:33.880 --> 0:26:37.720
<v Speaker 1>a left hand turn. It was, in many ways an

0:26:37.760 --> 0:26:42.400
<v Speaker 1>identical scenario to what we saw before. So that leads

0:26:42.400 --> 0:26:47.240
<v Speaker 1>to a question, how could two different autopilot systems make

0:26:47.400 --> 0:26:51.000
<v Speaker 1>the same fatal error? And a lot of this potentially

0:26:51.000 --> 0:26:53.359
<v Speaker 1>has to do with the types of technologies we depend

0:26:53.440 --> 0:26:56.600
<v Speaker 1>upon to do certain things. So a lot of the

0:26:56.680 --> 0:27:00.480
<v Speaker 1>anti collision technology we find in vehicles real lies on

0:27:00.640 --> 0:27:03.840
<v Speaker 1>Doppler radar. Let's talk about what that means for just

0:27:03.920 --> 0:27:07.679
<v Speaker 1>a second. First radar, Now, that involves sending out a

0:27:07.760 --> 0:27:11.439
<v Speaker 1>radio signal and then detecting the echoes of that signal

0:27:11.600 --> 0:27:15.320
<v Speaker 1>as they bounce back to the source. So your radar

0:27:15.640 --> 0:27:18.240
<v Speaker 1>has an emitter and it has a sensor. The admitter

0:27:18.280 --> 0:27:21.760
<v Speaker 1>sends out a radio signal, the sensor detects the returning

0:27:21.840 --> 0:27:24.560
<v Speaker 1>radio signal after it's bounced off something. And when you

0:27:24.600 --> 0:27:27.119
<v Speaker 1>measure the amount of time it took for a signal

0:27:27.160 --> 0:27:30.080
<v Speaker 1>to go out and then bounce back to you, that

0:27:30.200 --> 0:27:32.800
<v Speaker 1>tells you how far away you are from whatever it

0:27:32.920 --> 0:27:36.480
<v Speaker 1>is that you're beaming signals at, which is pretty simple, right,

0:27:37.480 --> 0:27:39.960
<v Speaker 1>But let's talk about the Doppler part. Now, if you've

0:27:40.000 --> 0:27:43.000
<v Speaker 1>got two objects that are standing still, well, that means

0:27:43.040 --> 0:27:45.200
<v Speaker 1>the signal you send out and the signal you get

0:27:45.200 --> 0:27:47.480
<v Speaker 1>back are going to be pretty much the same wavelength

0:27:47.480 --> 0:27:51.280
<v Speaker 1>and frequency because both you and the object are at

0:27:51.280 --> 0:27:55.040
<v Speaker 1>a standstill. But what if one of you is moving

0:27:55.080 --> 0:27:58.280
<v Speaker 1>toward the other, Well, in that case, the signal that

0:27:58.320 --> 0:28:01.280
<v Speaker 1>comes back to you is going to be compressed. It's

0:28:01.280 --> 0:28:05.120
<v Speaker 1>going to be shorter in wavelength and higher in frequency

0:28:05.160 --> 0:28:09.360
<v Speaker 1>than the signal you sent out. It's being pushed by

0:28:09.400 --> 0:28:11.679
<v Speaker 1>whatever it is that's moving towards you, or, in the

0:28:11.720 --> 0:28:13.680
<v Speaker 1>case of you moving toward it, the fact that you're

0:28:13.720 --> 0:28:17.080
<v Speaker 1>getting closer. So this tells you not only are you

0:28:17.160 --> 0:28:20.600
<v Speaker 1>within a certain distance of another object, it tells you

0:28:20.640 --> 0:28:23.639
<v Speaker 1>that you are getting closer to that object or that

0:28:23.680 --> 0:28:25.640
<v Speaker 1>object is getting closer to you, depending on your point

0:28:25.640 --> 0:28:29.560
<v Speaker 1>of reference. Now, for those of us who are are

0:28:29.680 --> 0:28:32.760
<v Speaker 1>able to hear, this is something that we can experience

0:28:32.800 --> 0:28:36.120
<v Speaker 1>out in the real world without any radar at all.

0:28:36.440 --> 0:28:39.640
<v Speaker 1>If you've ever heard and approaching emergency vehicle that's running

0:28:39.680 --> 0:28:43.240
<v Speaker 1>its siren. You probably noticed the sound of the siren

0:28:43.360 --> 0:28:47.480
<v Speaker 1>changes when the vehicle passes you, So as the vehicle

0:28:47.560 --> 0:28:52.120
<v Speaker 1>is approaching you, the pitch of the sirens sound is higher,

0:28:52.640 --> 0:28:55.640
<v Speaker 1>and as it moves away from you, the pitch goes lower.

0:28:56.000 --> 0:28:59.880
<v Speaker 1>And that's because the actual sound wave is being compressed

0:29:00.160 --> 0:29:04.120
<v Speaker 1>as the vehicles moving towards you, and it's expanding as

0:29:04.120 --> 0:29:07.880
<v Speaker 1>it's moving away from you. The vehicle pushes those sound

0:29:07.880 --> 0:29:10.880
<v Speaker 1>waves closer together as it's coming at you and stretches

0:29:10.920 --> 0:29:13.880
<v Speaker 1>amount as it's going away. That's when why the pitch

0:29:13.920 --> 0:29:16.800
<v Speaker 1>is higher one way and lower the other way. The

0:29:16.880 --> 0:29:19.960
<v Speaker 1>same thing happens with stuff like radar and radio signals,

0:29:20.120 --> 0:29:24.120
<v Speaker 1>and obviously it gets more complicated if both you and

0:29:24.200 --> 0:29:26.880
<v Speaker 1>the other objects are in motion at the same time.

0:29:27.360 --> 0:29:30.200
<v Speaker 1>But these systems work best when everyone is moving in

0:29:30.240 --> 0:29:33.400
<v Speaker 1>the same direction of travel, right, So it works really

0:29:33.400 --> 0:29:37.680
<v Speaker 1>well if you're behind another vehicle and that vehicle slows down,

0:29:38.160 --> 0:29:41.040
<v Speaker 1>then the system is very good at detecting that. But

0:29:41.160 --> 0:29:43.800
<v Speaker 1>in a case where a truck is pulling across lanes

0:29:43.840 --> 0:29:47.960
<v Speaker 1>of traffic, where the truck is moving perpendicular to your

0:29:48.000 --> 0:29:51.680
<v Speaker 1>direction of travel, it doesn't work as well. It doesn't

0:29:51.720 --> 0:29:55.080
<v Speaker 1>work as well on stationary objects, and a truck would

0:29:55.120 --> 0:29:58.200
<v Speaker 1>appear to be stationary as it was moving laterally across

0:29:58.360 --> 0:30:01.920
<v Speaker 1>your lane of traffic. Now, depending upon the lighting and

0:30:01.920 --> 0:30:05.600
<v Speaker 1>the time of day and autonomous vehicles, camera system might

0:30:05.680 --> 0:30:09.160
<v Speaker 1>not do much good either. It might misidentify a truck

0:30:09.400 --> 0:30:12.200
<v Speaker 1>as being like a road sign, and a road sign

0:30:12.440 --> 0:30:14.320
<v Speaker 1>hangs over the highway, it's not in the way of

0:30:14.320 --> 0:30:16.760
<v Speaker 1>the highway, so the system wouldn't think of it as

0:30:16.800 --> 0:30:20.120
<v Speaker 1>being a potential threat. Or it might interpret the side

0:30:20.120 --> 0:30:22.800
<v Speaker 1>of the truck to be the sky, depending on those

0:30:22.880 --> 0:30:25.760
<v Speaker 1>lighting conditions, and that would mean that the vehicle safety

0:30:25.760 --> 0:30:28.920
<v Speaker 1>features would not initiate, and that could lead to tragedies

0:30:28.960 --> 0:30:33.080
<v Speaker 1>like we've mentioned here on this episode. Now, I don't

0:30:33.120 --> 0:30:37.520
<v Speaker 1>mean to suggest that these technical problems are impossible to solve.

0:30:38.000 --> 0:30:41.000
<v Speaker 1>I don't think that's true, but I do think it's

0:30:41.000 --> 0:30:43.080
<v Speaker 1>going to take a lot of work, and it might

0:30:43.080 --> 0:30:48.400
<v Speaker 1>require technologies that for the moment are prohibitively expensive, meaning

0:30:48.440 --> 0:30:53.400
<v Speaker 1>that yeah, we could create a more reliable autonomous system,

0:30:53.400 --> 0:30:56.600
<v Speaker 1>but then the cost of the vehicle would be so

0:30:56.760 --> 0:31:00.640
<v Speaker 1>high that it wouldn't be practical from an economic standpoint.

0:31:01.480 --> 0:31:05.240
<v Speaker 1>Some of these systems. These components like LDAR, some of

0:31:05.280 --> 0:31:07.800
<v Speaker 1>them can cost as much as a brand new car

0:31:07.920 --> 0:31:10.440
<v Speaker 1>does all by itself. And I'm not talking about the

0:31:10.520 --> 0:31:13.600
<v Speaker 1>cheap car either. So when you start looking at that,

0:31:14.240 --> 0:31:17.480
<v Speaker 1>you have to then take the economic factors into consideration

0:31:17.520 --> 0:31:23.320
<v Speaker 1>and say, doesn't make economic sense to develop a system

0:31:23.360 --> 0:31:27.800
<v Speaker 1>that relies on these components, because will we ever make

0:31:27.840 --> 0:31:30.360
<v Speaker 1>our money back? Like would you be able to sell

0:31:30.440 --> 0:31:33.600
<v Speaker 1>the vehicle at a cost that would make sense, or

0:31:33.600 --> 0:31:35.280
<v Speaker 1>would no one buy it because it would be far

0:31:35.320 --> 0:31:39.120
<v Speaker 1>too expensive. Even if you're talking about, say a taxi service,

0:31:39.680 --> 0:31:43.240
<v Speaker 1>maybe a taxi service wouldn't buy it either because they'd say,

0:31:43.280 --> 0:31:46.280
<v Speaker 1>the likelihood of us making our money back with cars

0:31:46.280 --> 0:31:49.080
<v Speaker 1>that are that expensive before we have to replace those

0:31:49.120 --> 0:31:52.280
<v Speaker 1>cars is so low that it doesn't make sense to

0:31:52.280 --> 0:31:55.440
<v Speaker 1>go into it. That could be a real obstacle, and

0:31:55.520 --> 0:31:58.080
<v Speaker 1>as you know, more to do with the cost than

0:31:58.120 --> 0:32:02.920
<v Speaker 1>the actual technology. I also think that a major problem

0:32:02.960 --> 0:32:06.280
<v Speaker 1>with autonomous vehicles has been in messaging and in hype

0:32:06.840 --> 0:32:10.520
<v Speaker 1>companies in the autonomous vehicle business, not just Tesla I.

0:32:10.720 --> 0:32:13.280
<v Speaker 1>I heap a lot of abuse on Tesla for this,

0:32:13.760 --> 0:32:16.360
<v Speaker 1>but it is by far not the only company to

0:32:16.480 --> 0:32:18.840
<v Speaker 1>engage in these kinds of things. But I feel like

0:32:19.240 --> 0:32:21.600
<v Speaker 1>a lot of the leaders in that space and made

0:32:21.640 --> 0:32:25.640
<v Speaker 1>some really aggressive promises that in hindsight were impossible to

0:32:25.680 --> 0:32:29.040
<v Speaker 1>follow through on. At least they were impossible given the

0:32:29.080 --> 0:32:31.760
<v Speaker 1>time frames that were being tossed around. There were folks

0:32:31.960 --> 0:32:35.520
<v Speaker 1>suggesting that we would have cities filled with autonomous vehicles

0:32:35.560 --> 0:32:40.880
<v Speaker 1>able to operate in all conditions by well, it's two

0:32:40.960 --> 0:32:44.520
<v Speaker 1>and obviously that didn't happen. And no, it wasn't just

0:32:44.680 --> 0:32:48.160
<v Speaker 1>because a pandemic really messed things up. Though that definitely

0:32:48.200 --> 0:32:52.480
<v Speaker 1>didn't help because it disrupted everything from workflow to supply chains.

0:32:52.520 --> 0:32:57.440
<v Speaker 1>But even with sophisticated sensors, you then have to consider

0:32:57.520 --> 0:33:01.720
<v Speaker 1>the decision making factor and take add into account. Now,

0:33:01.760 --> 0:33:05.720
<v Speaker 1>at the moment, autonomous vehicles are for the most part

0:33:06.040 --> 0:33:11.000
<v Speaker 1>independent computing islands. It's like a personal computer that isn't

0:33:11.040 --> 0:33:14.240
<v Speaker 1>connected to the internet. So all the technology used to

0:33:14.320 --> 0:33:18.200
<v Speaker 1>keep the car in autonomous operation typically is just on

0:33:18.240 --> 0:33:21.200
<v Speaker 1>the car itself. So the car is relying on its

0:33:21.200 --> 0:33:25.120
<v Speaker 1>own sensors and its own processor to detect the environment

0:33:25.400 --> 0:33:29.560
<v Speaker 1>and make decisions. That is a tremendous amount of responsibility

0:33:29.680 --> 0:33:32.720
<v Speaker 1>to put on technology. Then again, it's also a tremendous

0:33:32.760 --> 0:33:35.240
<v Speaker 1>amount of responsibility to put on a teenager too, but

0:33:35.800 --> 0:33:40.240
<v Speaker 1>that's a different discussion. There are some proposals that suggest

0:33:40.280 --> 0:33:43.760
<v Speaker 1>the real future for autonomous vehicles is one in which

0:33:43.840 --> 0:33:48.400
<v Speaker 1>vehicles are in constant communication with one another and potentially

0:33:49.000 --> 0:33:53.120
<v Speaker 1>with the infrastructure itself, with the road system that a

0:33:53.200 --> 0:33:55.560
<v Speaker 1>vehicle would be able to stay in communication with, like

0:33:55.760 --> 0:33:59.200
<v Speaker 1>a smart city, The road system and the cars on

0:33:59.280 --> 0:34:03.200
<v Speaker 1>it would both be capable of adapting to different situations. So,

0:34:03.520 --> 0:34:07.600
<v Speaker 1>as an example, a smart city might have intersections that

0:34:07.640 --> 0:34:12.239
<v Speaker 1>could proactively change the timing on traffic lights to accommodate

0:34:12.360 --> 0:34:16.160
<v Speaker 1>changes in traffic patterns and smooth out the experience and

0:34:16.239 --> 0:34:20.880
<v Speaker 1>avoid long traffic jams. Cars in communication with the smart

0:34:20.920 --> 0:34:24.480
<v Speaker 1>city infrastructure could plot out the most efficient routes that

0:34:24.520 --> 0:34:28.080
<v Speaker 1>will save time and energy and adapt to changes that

0:34:28.120 --> 0:34:30.520
<v Speaker 1>happened on the fly. It might even be able to

0:34:30.680 --> 0:34:35.319
<v Speaker 1>adapt to routes that cause less wear and tear on

0:34:35.360 --> 0:34:39.440
<v Speaker 1>the actual infrastructure, giving city planners the chance to address

0:34:39.480 --> 0:34:43.480
<v Speaker 1>things before they become really big problems. I say that

0:34:43.520 --> 0:34:47.040
<v Speaker 1>as someone who lives in Atlanta and is very used

0:34:47.080 --> 0:34:50.120
<v Speaker 1>to the site of giant metal plates laid across the

0:34:50.239 --> 0:34:53.480
<v Speaker 1>road because potholes have developed and the city has not

0:34:53.600 --> 0:34:57.040
<v Speaker 1>had time to address it. If you had really smart infrastructure,

0:34:57.040 --> 0:34:59.799
<v Speaker 1>you could start to detect things before they got to

0:34:59.840 --> 0:35:03.880
<v Speaker 1>that point of of a problem. So these are really

0:35:03.920 --> 0:35:07.440
<v Speaker 1>cool ideas, and the improvements in quality of life in

0:35:07.520 --> 0:35:11.919
<v Speaker 1>those kinds of cities would be enormous. But to make

0:35:12.000 --> 0:35:14.600
<v Speaker 1>this happen a lot of other stuff has to fall

0:35:14.640 --> 0:35:18.560
<v Speaker 1>into place. First. Vehicles and cities would need to agree

0:35:18.600 --> 0:35:22.200
<v Speaker 1>upon a common set of languages and protocols in order

0:35:22.239 --> 0:35:27.280
<v Speaker 1>to communicate effectively. That alone is going to require tons

0:35:27.280 --> 0:35:30.919
<v Speaker 1>of work. Typically, we see car companies develop their own

0:35:31.080 --> 0:35:35.160
<v Speaker 1>in house systems which may or may not be compatible

0:35:35.360 --> 0:35:38.040
<v Speaker 1>with the systems that are used by other car companies,

0:35:38.440 --> 0:35:41.120
<v Speaker 1>which could lead to real delays. And seeing a fleet

0:35:41.200 --> 0:35:44.960
<v Speaker 1>of truly autonomous vehicles navigate the roads, it would be

0:35:45.040 --> 0:35:47.239
<v Speaker 1>kind of like putting a bunch of people who don't

0:35:47.280 --> 0:35:50.839
<v Speaker 1>speak the same language into a maze and have them

0:35:50.840 --> 0:35:54.600
<v Speaker 1>try and navigate it together. The cars would only understand

0:35:54.680 --> 0:35:58.239
<v Speaker 1>other vehicles that were from the same manufacturer, and that

0:35:58.239 --> 0:36:01.200
<v Speaker 1>would have limited usefulness unless we all just migrated to

0:36:01.280 --> 0:36:04.120
<v Speaker 1>the same vehicle manufacturer. But that would turn that company

0:36:04.120 --> 0:36:08.200
<v Speaker 1>into a global monopoly and uh I humbly suggest we

0:36:08.280 --> 0:36:12.719
<v Speaker 1>don't do that. But that future in which vehicles talk

0:36:12.800 --> 0:36:15.360
<v Speaker 1>to each other as well as two road systems into

0:36:15.360 --> 0:36:19.800
<v Speaker 1>cities will require tons of other work as well. Obviously,

0:36:19.880 --> 0:36:22.600
<v Speaker 1>cities are going to have to build out smart infrastructure,

0:36:22.680 --> 0:36:26.319
<v Speaker 1>and that's likely to be expensive and time consuming. We

0:36:26.360 --> 0:36:30.160
<v Speaker 1>also need really good wireless technologies in place to five

0:36:30.280 --> 0:36:33.200
<v Speaker 1>G has promise, but we would need it to be

0:36:33.320 --> 0:36:37.560
<v Speaker 1>more dense and more widespread than it is currently. For

0:36:37.640 --> 0:36:41.600
<v Speaker 1>some industries like trucking, five G is not a great

0:36:41.640 --> 0:36:46.080
<v Speaker 1>solution because on long hauls between cities, you're gonna hit

0:36:46.160 --> 0:36:48.239
<v Speaker 1>routes that are going to have little to know five

0:36:48.320 --> 0:36:51.920
<v Speaker 1>G support along those routes, and it would be foolish

0:36:52.120 --> 0:36:54.520
<v Speaker 1>to build out a business that depends upon five G

0:36:54.640 --> 0:37:00.279
<v Speaker 1>connectivity if that business involves navigating through places that don't

0:37:00.280 --> 0:37:03.239
<v Speaker 1>have five G support. Meanwhile, there has to be a

0:37:03.239 --> 0:37:07.120
<v Speaker 1>strong enough business case for the telecommunications industry to build

0:37:07.120 --> 0:37:11.239
<v Speaker 1>out five G availability to these regions. That's hard to

0:37:11.280 --> 0:37:14.400
<v Speaker 1>imagine if there just aren't that many people living along

0:37:14.400 --> 0:37:18.000
<v Speaker 1>those routes, right, if it's not densely populated, then the

0:37:18.000 --> 0:37:22.880
<v Speaker 1>telecommunications companies are gonna say, well, it's really expensive to

0:37:23.000 --> 0:37:25.839
<v Speaker 1>build out the infrastructure. We have to put antennas all

0:37:25.840 --> 0:37:29.040
<v Speaker 1>over the place. If we want to have high frequency

0:37:29.080 --> 0:37:32.760
<v Speaker 1>five G, the stuff that's really high through put, low latency,

0:37:32.960 --> 0:37:34.839
<v Speaker 1>that stuff, the five G that we think of when

0:37:34.840 --> 0:37:38.600
<v Speaker 1>we think, oh, this can replace fiber Internet. You have

0:37:38.680 --> 0:37:43.560
<v Speaker 1>to have very dense antenna deployment for that to work. Well,

0:37:43.560 --> 0:37:47.560
<v Speaker 1>that's expensive and if a place is not densely populated,

0:37:48.080 --> 0:37:50.760
<v Speaker 1>it's a really tough thing to tell a telecommunications company

0:37:50.800 --> 0:37:54.000
<v Speaker 1>you need to put out the expense to build out

0:37:54.000 --> 0:37:58.640
<v Speaker 1>that infrastructure even if you only have a few thousand

0:37:58.680 --> 0:38:02.480
<v Speaker 1>customers in these area, is right, Like, that's that's a

0:38:02.480 --> 0:38:06.359
<v Speaker 1>tough sales pitch to make to these telecommunications companies. So

0:38:06.400 --> 0:38:10.840
<v Speaker 1>it's not likely that we're going to see intense five

0:38:10.920 --> 0:38:14.680
<v Speaker 1>G coverage along some of these places. So five G

0:38:14.880 --> 0:38:17.520
<v Speaker 1>could work in cities, and it might be a really

0:38:17.560 --> 0:38:20.640
<v Speaker 1>good solution for the future of smart cities, but that

0:38:20.680 --> 0:38:24.000
<v Speaker 1>would likely mean we would see autonomous vehicles largely confined

0:38:24.160 --> 0:38:27.920
<v Speaker 1>to a specific region that geo fencing approach. They wouldn't

0:38:27.960 --> 0:38:31.799
<v Speaker 1>necessarily be able to travel outside of those regions, not

0:38:31.920 --> 0:38:35.280
<v Speaker 1>without having a robust enough system on board. The vehicle

0:38:35.320 --> 0:38:38.520
<v Speaker 1>itself to handle everything when it, you know, kind of

0:38:38.600 --> 0:38:42.040
<v Speaker 1>loses connectivity. And that's a really big part of it too.

0:38:42.080 --> 0:38:45.040
<v Speaker 1>The fact is, all sorts of weird stuff happens on

0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:49.000
<v Speaker 1>the roads, and engineers are not able to anticipate all

0:38:49.040 --> 0:38:51.759
<v Speaker 1>of them. None of us are. There's just no practical

0:38:51.880 --> 0:38:55.640
<v Speaker 1>or even possible way to preprogram the right response to

0:38:55.920 --> 0:38:59.120
<v Speaker 1>every possible thing that could happen on the roads. This

0:38:59.160 --> 0:39:03.200
<v Speaker 1>is another reason why geo fencing is an important solution,

0:39:03.480 --> 0:39:05.600
<v Speaker 1>or at least a temporary one, because it limits the

0:39:05.640 --> 0:39:09.680
<v Speaker 1>operational range of an autonomous vehicle. That also means it

0:39:09.719 --> 0:39:13.480
<v Speaker 1>limits the number and variety of weird stuff that that

0:39:13.600 --> 0:39:17.560
<v Speaker 1>vehicle could potentially encounter. It's not gonna eliminate weird stuff.

0:39:17.840 --> 0:39:22.279
<v Speaker 1>It'll just limited to mostly a subsection of all the

0:39:22.320 --> 0:39:29.480
<v Speaker 1>weird stuff. Right, Eliminating variables makes the whole problem less complicated.

0:39:29.520 --> 0:39:32.680
<v Speaker 1>I was gonna say easier, but that's the wrong implication.

0:39:33.120 --> 0:39:36.880
<v Speaker 1>Less complicated is probably the better wording, because it's still

0:39:37.120 --> 0:39:41.080
<v Speaker 1>wicked complicated. Then we have to get through all these

0:39:41.120 --> 0:39:46.560
<v Speaker 1>social components to making driverless vehicles an acceptable reality. According

0:39:46.600 --> 0:39:52.600
<v Speaker 1>to Alex Kopatinski of Policy Advice around fort of people

0:39:52.640 --> 0:39:55.279
<v Speaker 1>in the United States do not feel safe in a

0:39:55.400 --> 0:39:58.560
<v Speaker 1>driverless car. They do not like the idea of getting

0:39:58.560 --> 0:40:03.839
<v Speaker 1>into a driverless vehicle. I actually think for being uncomfortable

0:40:03.960 --> 0:40:06.759
<v Speaker 1>is pretty low. I would have expected that more than

0:40:06.840 --> 0:40:09.600
<v Speaker 1>half of people in the United States worry about their

0:40:09.640 --> 0:40:12.440
<v Speaker 1>safety if they were to get into a driverless vehicle.

0:40:13.360 --> 0:40:16.560
<v Speaker 1>Now that's not based on any hard data. That's just

0:40:16.680 --> 0:40:19.440
<v Speaker 1>my my feeling, which we all know is not really

0:40:19.560 --> 0:40:22.960
<v Speaker 1>that's not evidence, it's not worth while. I just feel

0:40:23.000 --> 0:40:28.480
<v Speaker 1>forty feels uh really generous. And that's because whenever a

0:40:28.600 --> 0:40:31.800
<v Speaker 1>driverless vehicle gets in an accident, we see a disproportionate

0:40:31.840 --> 0:40:36.160
<v Speaker 1>amount of coverage about that accident. Now, we all know

0:40:36.760 --> 0:40:41.200
<v Speaker 1>fatal accidents due to human error happen far too frequently.

0:40:41.239 --> 0:40:45.880
<v Speaker 1>They're happening every day, lots of them, with thirty eight thousand,

0:40:46.760 --> 0:40:52.160
<v Speaker 1>uh nearly thirty nine thousand happening in lots are happening

0:40:52.160 --> 0:40:55.120
<v Speaker 1>every single day, and they typically do not receive nearly

0:40:55.239 --> 0:40:59.480
<v Speaker 1>as much coverage as an autonomous vehicle accident beyond maybe

0:40:59.560 --> 0:41:03.000
<v Speaker 1>local reports. Your local news might cover it, but and

0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:05.440
<v Speaker 1>sometimes it might just be something like a traffic report,

0:41:06.239 --> 0:41:08.520
<v Speaker 1>but you don't get the coverage that you would get

0:41:08.520 --> 0:41:11.600
<v Speaker 1>if it were an autonomous vehicle. When an autonomous vehicles

0:41:11.640 --> 0:41:16.120
<v Speaker 1>at fault, that becomes national or maybe even global news.

0:41:16.160 --> 0:41:19.680
<v Speaker 1>So there is a disparity going on here. Right. You

0:41:19.719 --> 0:41:24.960
<v Speaker 1>could argue that the autonomous vehicles in in aggregate are

0:41:25.040 --> 0:41:31.720
<v Speaker 1>far more safe than human driven vehicles, but the news

0:41:31.719 --> 0:41:35.400
<v Speaker 1>reporting has an amazing disparity there. There's going to be

0:41:35.480 --> 0:41:39.000
<v Speaker 1>way more reporting on autonomous vehicle accidents than on your

0:41:39.040 --> 0:41:44.439
<v Speaker 1>typical human caused accident. Still, even at you're still looking

0:41:44.480 --> 0:41:46.959
<v Speaker 1>at a ton of people who would feel unsafe getting

0:41:47.000 --> 0:41:50.120
<v Speaker 1>into a driverless car, and whether that worry is justified

0:41:50.280 --> 0:41:53.640
<v Speaker 1>or not, it poses as a challenge when it comes

0:41:53.680 --> 0:41:57.200
<v Speaker 1>to policy. See another really big component in the adoption

0:41:57.239 --> 0:42:00.960
<v Speaker 1>of drive list car technology is getting politic Aisians to

0:42:01.440 --> 0:42:05.600
<v Speaker 1>support it and to develop laws that create the guidelines

0:42:05.640 --> 0:42:10.320
<v Speaker 1>around it. Many places lack laws that would cover autonomous

0:42:10.400 --> 0:42:13.680
<v Speaker 1>driving vehicles. That gap is something to be concerned about.

0:42:13.760 --> 0:42:17.600
<v Speaker 1>It means that if something happens, like if an autonomous

0:42:17.680 --> 0:42:20.520
<v Speaker 1>vehicle gets into an accident in one of those places,

0:42:21.000 --> 0:42:24.480
<v Speaker 1>you would have no framework to establish things like accountability.

0:42:24.640 --> 0:42:27.680
<v Speaker 1>That's just one tiny slice of how it's important to

0:42:27.800 --> 0:42:31.920
<v Speaker 1>establish policy so that there is a legal infrastructure around

0:42:31.960 --> 0:42:37.040
<v Speaker 1>autonomous vehicle operation. That legal structure would in turn inform

0:42:37.160 --> 0:42:40.959
<v Speaker 1>manufacturers as to certain requirements their vehicles would have to meet,

0:42:41.440 --> 0:42:45.080
<v Speaker 1>and that would mean that these policies would also shape technology.

0:42:45.160 --> 0:42:47.920
<v Speaker 1>Wouldn't just be how can we make this technology do

0:42:48.040 --> 0:42:50.399
<v Speaker 1>the thing we wanted to do, It would be how

0:42:50.440 --> 0:42:52.560
<v Speaker 1>can we make this technology do the thing we wanted

0:42:52.600 --> 0:42:57.480
<v Speaker 1>to do within the legal framework. So that's an important

0:42:57.520 --> 0:43:00.000
<v Speaker 1>thing that has to happen too, And in some places

0:43:00.320 --> 0:43:03.239
<v Speaker 1>we're seeing that. In other places there's not really any

0:43:03.239 --> 0:43:07.279
<v Speaker 1>official policy. If the policies don't match each other, that

0:43:07.400 --> 0:43:10.880
<v Speaker 1>also creates a complication, because what do you do in

0:43:10.880 --> 0:43:13.800
<v Speaker 1>a case where an autonomous vehicle that's legal to operate

0:43:13.880 --> 0:43:16.960
<v Speaker 1>in one place ventures into a place where it's not

0:43:17.120 --> 0:43:20.200
<v Speaker 1>legal to operate because it doesn't fully meet all the requirements.

0:43:20.480 --> 0:43:24.319
<v Speaker 1>These are tough questions now. Way back in the day,

0:43:24.880 --> 0:43:27.000
<v Speaker 1>if you listen to tech stuff, you know, I was

0:43:27.160 --> 0:43:30.520
<v Speaker 1>really super hyped up for autonomous vehicles. I was so

0:43:30.640 --> 0:43:34.439
<v Speaker 1>excited about it, and that's because I recognized the fallibility

0:43:34.440 --> 0:43:37.440
<v Speaker 1>of humans. I recognize that we make mistakes, and the

0:43:37.480 --> 0:43:40.840
<v Speaker 1>fact that technology can detect and react at a speed

0:43:41.120 --> 0:43:44.640
<v Speaker 1>that is impossible for us to even imagine, meant the

0:43:45.280 --> 0:43:49.680
<v Speaker 1>potential for this technology to save thousands of lives every year.

0:43:50.040 --> 0:43:53.520
<v Speaker 1>And based off that very limited perspective, yeah, autonomous cars

0:43:53.680 --> 0:43:57.440
<v Speaker 1>are phenomenal, but it also ignores all the other things

0:43:57.440 --> 0:44:00.360
<v Speaker 1>that you have to take into consideration that driving, say fleet,

0:44:00.840 --> 0:44:04.040
<v Speaker 1>is about way more than just seeing something and then

0:44:04.120 --> 0:44:07.680
<v Speaker 1>reacting to it in time. And that's really where I

0:44:07.719 --> 0:44:11.120
<v Speaker 1>was being blind. I bought into the hype and was

0:44:11.239 --> 0:44:14.520
<v Speaker 1>eagerly looking forward to one when I'd be able to

0:44:14.520 --> 0:44:17.160
<v Speaker 1>hop into a driverless car and go wherever I wanted.

0:44:18.120 --> 0:44:22.160
<v Speaker 1>These days, i'm I would say, I'm more cautiously optimistic.

0:44:23.160 --> 0:44:25.360
<v Speaker 1>I do still think we're going to get to a

0:44:25.400 --> 0:44:28.919
<v Speaker 1>future where autonomous vehicles will play a more central role

0:44:29.120 --> 0:44:32.719
<v Speaker 1>in how we get around locally, and in fact, it

0:44:32.800 --> 0:44:35.560
<v Speaker 1>might it might even cut way back on the number

0:44:35.600 --> 0:44:38.239
<v Speaker 1>of vehicles we have on the road in the long run,

0:44:38.360 --> 0:44:40.640
<v Speaker 1>But I think that's going to take ages to play out.

0:44:41.760 --> 0:44:45.640
<v Speaker 1>Maybe we'll see those visions of a future where parking

0:44:45.640 --> 0:44:49.160
<v Speaker 1>lots are reclaimed and turned into stuff like parks and whatnot.

0:44:49.280 --> 0:44:52.560
<v Speaker 1>Maybe we'll see that come true, Because maybe we will

0:44:52.600 --> 0:44:54.840
<v Speaker 1>see a future where we have a fleet of autonomous

0:44:54.880 --> 0:44:58.680
<v Speaker 1>vehicles that just kind of are there on demand whenever

0:44:58.719 --> 0:45:03.399
<v Speaker 1>we need them, and then go somewhere when we don't.

0:45:03.480 --> 0:45:05.560
<v Speaker 1>That somewhere is a big question mark by the way,

0:45:05.680 --> 0:45:08.160
<v Speaker 1>that we haven't answered, and that we don't own our

0:45:08.200 --> 0:45:12.399
<v Speaker 1>own car, right, we just use driverless vehicles as an

0:45:12.440 --> 0:45:15.120
<v Speaker 1>on demand service whenever we need to get somewhere. It

0:45:15.120 --> 0:45:17.879
<v Speaker 1>will be priced at a point where it would make

0:45:18.520 --> 0:45:20.520
<v Speaker 1>sense to do that, where you know it would be

0:45:20.560 --> 0:45:24.440
<v Speaker 1>at least uh no more expensive than owning and maintaining

0:45:24.440 --> 0:45:28.120
<v Speaker 1>your own vehicle, and preferably less expensive than that. For

0:45:28.200 --> 0:45:31.319
<v Speaker 1>that to happen, a lot of stuff has to fall

0:45:31.320 --> 0:45:33.400
<v Speaker 1>into place, and it goes well beyond the scope of

0:45:33.400 --> 0:45:34.960
<v Speaker 1>this episode, so I'm not going to go into it.

0:45:35.000 --> 0:45:38.640
<v Speaker 1>But let's say that all these things are actually able

0:45:38.680 --> 0:45:43.920
<v Speaker 1>to come true. If that's in fact a possibility, it's

0:45:43.920 --> 0:45:47.160
<v Speaker 1>gonna take decades, if not longer, for us to get there.

0:45:47.440 --> 0:45:50.920
<v Speaker 1>We we've just got we've got so much inertia built

0:45:51.000 --> 0:45:54.720
<v Speaker 1>up that we have to get through that in order

0:45:54.800 --> 0:45:57.360
<v Speaker 1>to make that future reality. And we have to remind

0:45:57.400 --> 0:46:00.680
<v Speaker 1>ourselves that to achieve that vision, it's going to require

0:46:00.719 --> 0:46:03.279
<v Speaker 1>a ton of work and the solution to a lot

0:46:03.360 --> 0:46:06.640
<v Speaker 1>of non trivial problems. That is not a reason to

0:46:06.680 --> 0:46:09.439
<v Speaker 1>give up, but it is a good reason to check

0:46:09.480 --> 0:46:11.960
<v Speaker 1>our expectations and to look at things from a more

0:46:12.000 --> 0:46:15.800
<v Speaker 1>critical point of view, and to approach things that way.

0:46:15.840 --> 0:46:20.560
<v Speaker 1>That way, when we're really being critical, when we're really

0:46:20.600 --> 0:46:25.440
<v Speaker 1>acknowledging the challenges that face us, were more equipped to

0:46:25.640 --> 0:46:29.799
<v Speaker 1>meet those challenges, to find solutions, and to work through it.

0:46:30.480 --> 0:46:33.319
<v Speaker 1>If we fall into the trap of being overhyped, like

0:46:33.400 --> 0:46:36.719
<v Speaker 1>I was back in the day, then we're not gonna

0:46:36.960 --> 0:46:40.640
<v Speaker 1>realize those challenges until they are undeniable, and when we've

0:46:40.640 --> 0:46:45.400
<v Speaker 1>wasted time, money, and resources on things that were trivial

0:46:45.680 --> 0:46:49.560
<v Speaker 1>in the in the long term. So still, I'm still

0:46:49.640 --> 0:46:53.520
<v Speaker 1>up on autonomous vehicles. I still I'm eager to see

0:46:53.520 --> 0:46:56.399
<v Speaker 1>them become a thing, not entirely sure that they're going

0:46:56.440 --> 0:46:59.160
<v Speaker 1>to be an effective thing within my lifetime. I mean,

0:46:59.160 --> 0:47:02.600
<v Speaker 1>they will exist, they will be out there. I just

0:47:02.640 --> 0:47:05.600
<v Speaker 1>don't know at what sort of density it will be.

0:47:06.120 --> 0:47:09.440
<v Speaker 1>But I do think it's a worthwhile pursuit. I think

0:47:09.480 --> 0:47:14.200
<v Speaker 1>the benefits are undeniable if we are able to solve

0:47:14.239 --> 0:47:18.479
<v Speaker 1>the problems. All Right, That wraps up this catch up

0:47:18.520 --> 0:47:22.680
<v Speaker 1>on autonomous vehicles. Hope you enjoyed it as a reminder,

0:47:23.280 --> 0:47:25.879
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0:47:31.400 --> 0:47:34.160
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0:47:37.680 --> 0:47:40.120
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0:47:40.120 --> 0:47:43.080
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0:47:47.880 --> 0:47:50.880
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0:47:54.800 --> 0:48:03.000
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