1 00:00:15,476 --> 00:00:15,916 Speaker 1: Pushkin. 2 00:00:21,596 --> 00:00:23,916 Speaker 2: I remember in your podcast you were saying, like I'm 3 00:00:23,956 --> 00:00:26,156 Speaker 2: a fun person, but I don't really have that much fun. 4 00:00:27,156 --> 00:00:28,716 Speaker 1: This is listener Natalie Robinson. 5 00:00:28,996 --> 00:00:31,236 Speaker 2: When the kids were little, it was so easy to 6 00:00:31,276 --> 00:00:32,636 Speaker 2: have fun, like you take them to the zoo, you 7 00:00:32,676 --> 00:00:33,636 Speaker 2: take them in the water park. 8 00:00:34,356 --> 00:00:36,636 Speaker 1: She was inspired by an old episode of The Happiness 9 00:00:36,676 --> 00:00:39,076 Speaker 1: Lab in which I tried to inject fun and playfulness 10 00:00:39,116 --> 00:00:42,036 Speaker 1: back into my life. Natalie also felt that she was 11 00:00:42,116 --> 00:00:42,676 Speaker 1: lacking fun. 12 00:00:43,596 --> 00:00:44,316 Speaker 3: Are we fun? 13 00:00:44,356 --> 00:00:46,116 Speaker 2: Like do we even have fun anymore? 14 00:00:46,156 --> 00:00:49,476 Speaker 1: Like, let's have more fun. So she took the lessons 15 00:00:49,516 --> 00:00:51,596 Speaker 1: she heard in the podcast and encouraged the women in 16 00:00:51,636 --> 00:00:55,316 Speaker 1: her running group to add fun interventions or fun interventions 17 00:00:55,516 --> 00:00:56,436 Speaker 1: into their diaries. 18 00:00:56,676 --> 00:01:01,596 Speaker 2: Scavenger Hunt was definitely a lot of playfulness, like because 19 00:01:01,596 --> 00:01:04,156 Speaker 2: we engaged with the public like we had to, like 20 00:01:04,516 --> 00:01:06,716 Speaker 2: I remember like one of them was like pretending you're 21 00:01:06,756 --> 00:01:08,836 Speaker 2: a duck and you have to cluck around people. 22 00:01:09,116 --> 00:01:11,076 Speaker 3: That was the most playful. 23 00:01:11,476 --> 00:01:13,436 Speaker 1: In a recent show, we talked to Natalie and her 24 00:01:13,476 --> 00:01:15,756 Speaker 1: friends about how their lives had been improved by getting 25 00:01:15,796 --> 00:01:18,436 Speaker 1: serious about having fun. Go back and listen if you 26 00:01:18,476 --> 00:01:20,956 Speaker 1: missed it. We also played the first episode in our 27 00:01:20,956 --> 00:01:23,996 Speaker 1: two part show that inspired them. What follows now is 28 00:01:24,036 --> 00:01:26,756 Speaker 1: the conclusion of my very personal journey to regain some 29 00:01:26,836 --> 00:01:29,636 Speaker 1: of the playfulness of my childhood. I hope you enjoy it. 30 00:01:31,836 --> 00:01:33,556 Speaker 3: First all, I just have so many questions to ask 31 00:01:33,596 --> 00:01:35,996 Speaker 3: you about what you've been up to for this past month. 32 00:01:36,596 --> 00:01:39,716 Speaker 1: This is Catherine Price. Over the last few weeks, she's 33 00:01:39,796 --> 00:01:42,716 Speaker 1: become my new guru. I need a guru because I'm 34 00:01:42,756 --> 00:01:46,956 Speaker 1: on a mission, a mission to have fun. As a kid, 35 00:01:46,996 --> 00:01:49,236 Speaker 1: I used to have fun all the time. I spent 36 00:01:49,316 --> 00:01:52,116 Speaker 1: all day playing with friends, goofing around and just doing 37 00:01:52,196 --> 00:01:55,596 Speaker 1: lots of random activities that I enjoyed. But as an adult, 38 00:01:55,996 --> 00:01:59,196 Speaker 1: not so much. That's why I've turned to Catherine. You see, 39 00:01:59,316 --> 00:02:01,596 Speaker 1: Catherine is the author of a new book called The 40 00:02:01,636 --> 00:02:04,316 Speaker 1: Power of Fun, How to Feel Alive Again, and I've 41 00:02:04,356 --> 00:02:06,516 Speaker 1: asked her to use her expertise to give me an 42 00:02:06,556 --> 00:02:11,676 Speaker 1: emergency fun intervention or funter vention for sure. So far, 43 00:02:11,796 --> 00:02:15,116 Speaker 1: Catherine's taught me that fun, by definition, requires a combination 44 00:02:15,236 --> 00:02:17,996 Speaker 1: of playful, connected flow, and that those three parts of 45 00:02:18,036 --> 00:02:21,196 Speaker 1: an experience are wrecked when you're feeling distracted. So my 46 00:02:21,276 --> 00:02:23,716 Speaker 1: homework was to train my brain to focus better by 47 00:02:23,756 --> 00:02:27,516 Speaker 1: finding delights those funny, beautiful, delightful things that are out 48 00:02:27,556 --> 00:02:29,796 Speaker 1: there all the time but we tend not to notice. 49 00:02:30,916 --> 00:02:34,716 Speaker 1: But today I'll be tackling a different problem. Embarrassingly enough, 50 00:02:34,836 --> 00:02:36,876 Speaker 1: even when I have time to focus and be present, 51 00:02:37,156 --> 00:02:39,796 Speaker 1: I often just can't think of anything fun to do. 52 00:02:40,676 --> 00:02:42,756 Speaker 1: I've sort of forgotten the kinds of things I like 53 00:02:42,836 --> 00:02:46,476 Speaker 1: and enjoy. Plus I'm often so exhausted these days that 54 00:02:46,556 --> 00:02:48,316 Speaker 1: a lot of the time I kind of just want 55 00:02:48,316 --> 00:02:51,796 Speaker 1: to vege on the couch. So today I'll be rediscovering 56 00:02:51,876 --> 00:02:54,716 Speaker 1: what feels fun and learning, as Catherine puts it, to 57 00:02:54,796 --> 00:02:58,156 Speaker 1: feel alive again. But even though that's the goal, I'm 58 00:02:58,156 --> 00:03:00,676 Speaker 1: worried there's a decent chance that my attempts at finding 59 00:03:00,756 --> 00:03:02,436 Speaker 1: fun might actually kill me. 60 00:03:02,876 --> 00:03:04,636 Speaker 3: What's the worst that can happen? Well, I guess you 61 00:03:04,676 --> 00:03:05,996 Speaker 3: could get each actually something. 62 00:03:05,796 --> 00:03:07,956 Speaker 1: No no, I think, like getting concussed or dying, but 63 00:03:08,116 --> 00:03:10,756 Speaker 1: bring well that's no. Yeah, or at the very least 64 00:03:11,036 --> 00:03:12,276 Speaker 1: might kill my voice. 65 00:03:12,316 --> 00:03:17,236 Speaker 3: To do the hard and your tube blame Ugi blob 66 00:03:17,916 --> 00:03:21,516 Speaker 3: a bad name, bad name from my heart. 67 00:03:21,556 --> 00:03:22,396 Speaker 4: And you play. 68 00:03:23,276 --> 00:03:26,196 Speaker 1: So with those slight spoilers out there, welcome to Doctor 69 00:03:26,276 --> 00:03:37,636 Speaker 1: Laurie Santos's Extreme Funtervention, Part two. Our minds are constantly 70 00:03:37,676 --> 00:03:39,516 Speaker 1: telling us what to do to be happy. But what 71 00:03:39,556 --> 00:03:41,756 Speaker 1: if our minds are wrong? What if our minds are 72 00:03:41,836 --> 00:03:44,076 Speaker 1: lying to us, leading us away from what will really 73 00:03:44,076 --> 00:03:47,236 Speaker 1: make us happy. The good news is that understanding the 74 00:03:47,276 --> 00:03:49,196 Speaker 1: science of the mind can join us all back in 75 00:03:49,236 --> 00:03:52,196 Speaker 1: the right direction. You're listening to the Happiness Lab for 76 00:03:52,316 --> 00:03:53,436 Speaker 1: doctor Laurie Santeves. 77 00:04:02,316 --> 00:04:04,836 Speaker 3: I live in Philadelphia, relatively close to the School River, 78 00:04:04,836 --> 00:04:06,716 Speaker 3: which is a famous rowing river. And I had a 79 00:04:06,756 --> 00:04:09,316 Speaker 3: neighbor who had been telling me how she'd been taking 80 00:04:09,356 --> 00:04:11,876 Speaker 3: rowing lessons and they were baby turtles in the river, 81 00:04:12,156 --> 00:04:14,756 Speaker 3: and I'm like, well, that sounds interesting. So a couple 82 00:04:14,716 --> 00:04:18,076 Speaker 3: of years ago I decided to try to learn to row, and. 83 00:04:18,076 --> 00:04:21,356 Speaker 1: Her quest to have fun, Catherine joined guitar classes, drum practices, 84 00:04:21,356 --> 00:04:24,516 Speaker 1: and swing dancing workshops. She's an expert on pushing her 85 00:04:24,556 --> 00:04:27,756 Speaker 1: boundaries in order to experience more fun, and getting out 86 00:04:27,796 --> 00:04:29,716 Speaker 1: on the water was her most recent attempt. 87 00:04:30,196 --> 00:04:32,476 Speaker 3: So I spent a summer biking up to Boat House 88 00:04:32,556 --> 00:04:35,156 Speaker 3: Row every Thursday morning and taking lessons from this guy 89 00:04:35,236 --> 00:04:38,356 Speaker 3: named Brian, who was this very funny rowing coach, very 90 00:04:38,756 --> 00:04:39,956 Speaker 3: playfully sarcastic. 91 00:04:40,516 --> 00:04:42,956 Speaker 1: Those mornings out on the water were full of playfulness 92 00:04:42,956 --> 00:04:46,076 Speaker 1: and connection, with coach Brian constantly joking with her through 93 00:04:46,116 --> 00:04:47,996 Speaker 1: a ridiculous megaphone. 94 00:04:48,756 --> 00:04:50,876 Speaker 3: Selling about the megaphone like I just loved it. 95 00:04:51,476 --> 00:04:54,796 Speaker 1: Rowing also gave Catherine lots of flow. She was consistently 96 00:04:54,836 --> 00:04:57,876 Speaker 1: present on the water, paying attention to her movements so 97 00:04:57,916 --> 00:05:01,796 Speaker 1: she didn't tip over. With these three elements of playfulness, 98 00:05:01,796 --> 00:05:05,316 Speaker 1: connection and flow in place, rowing was fun, but don't 99 00:05:05,316 --> 00:05:10,036 Speaker 1: be fooled. Fun isn't always about bright skies and perfect sailing. Consider, 100 00:05:10,116 --> 00:05:12,596 Speaker 1: for example, the time Catherine went ahead with a row 101 00:05:12,836 --> 00:05:14,796 Speaker 1: despite the dark clouds forming. 102 00:05:14,716 --> 00:05:17,836 Speaker 3: Which was a dumb move. There was nobody else on 103 00:05:17,876 --> 00:05:18,316 Speaker 3: this river. 104 00:05:18,996 --> 00:05:22,276 Speaker 1: A torrential downpour started, but Catherine kept heading over to 105 00:05:22,356 --> 00:05:24,636 Speaker 1: the spot where her beloved baby turtles hung out. 106 00:05:24,716 --> 00:05:27,076 Speaker 3: But there were no turtles that day, because they're not idiots. 107 00:05:27,516 --> 00:05:30,196 Speaker 1: Her oars were extra slippery that day, and all of 108 00:05:30,236 --> 00:05:32,036 Speaker 1: a sudden she tipped over. 109 00:05:32,316 --> 00:05:33,956 Speaker 3: One of those things where you know it's happening and 110 00:05:33,956 --> 00:05:35,676 Speaker 3: you cannot do anything about it, And I was like, 111 00:05:35,676 --> 00:05:38,316 Speaker 3: I am going into the schoogle, which side note is 112 00:05:38,356 --> 00:05:40,076 Speaker 3: like not a river you really want to swim in, 113 00:05:40,356 --> 00:05:43,876 Speaker 3: Like lots of questionable things flowing into the occasional body 114 00:05:43,916 --> 00:05:45,676 Speaker 3: fished out of this thing. It's not ideal. 115 00:05:46,836 --> 00:05:50,676 Speaker 1: Taking a front somersault, fully clothed into very cold, filthy 116 00:05:50,716 --> 00:05:53,596 Speaker 1: water in the middle of a huge storm sounds like 117 00:05:53,676 --> 00:05:54,796 Speaker 1: my absolute nightmare. 118 00:05:54,996 --> 00:05:57,196 Speaker 3: But the thing was I actually was having fun. Like 119 00:05:57,236 --> 00:05:59,956 Speaker 3: in retrospect, I'm like, I was just giddy when we 120 00:05:59,996 --> 00:06:01,876 Speaker 3: got back to the dock and I started announcing to 121 00:06:01,956 --> 00:06:03,516 Speaker 3: everyone that I had fallen into the river. 122 00:06:04,196 --> 00:06:06,356 Speaker 1: As I cringed at the idea of looking stupid in 123 00:06:06,356 --> 00:06:09,556 Speaker 1: front of complete strangers, Catherine got to the moral of story. 124 00:06:09,916 --> 00:06:11,836 Speaker 3: There's a lot of moments in life where if you 125 00:06:11,916 --> 00:06:16,436 Speaker 3: can embrace the absurdity of the objectively unpleasant situation, it's 126 00:06:16,436 --> 00:06:17,316 Speaker 3: actually pretty fun. 127 00:06:18,516 --> 00:06:20,996 Speaker 1: For the next step of my fun prevention, Catherine wanted 128 00:06:21,036 --> 00:06:23,556 Speaker 1: me to follow her lead and try out a new hobby, 129 00:06:24,116 --> 00:06:27,036 Speaker 1: ideally one that I'd be reasonably bad at, in order 130 00:06:27,076 --> 00:06:30,996 Speaker 1: to ensure that I experience those juicy moments of absurd unpleasantness. 131 00:06:31,396 --> 00:06:34,876 Speaker 1: And I reacted to this suggestion with terror. As a 132 00:06:34,916 --> 00:06:37,796 Speaker 1: busy adult, I haven't tried out something completely new and 133 00:06:37,876 --> 00:06:41,516 Speaker 1: challenging in a very, very long time. And I'm guessing 134 00:06:41,556 --> 00:06:43,756 Speaker 1: I'm not alone here. But I also tend to beat 135 00:06:43,756 --> 00:06:47,276 Speaker 1: myself up when I'm not immediately good at something. Turns out, 136 00:06:47,316 --> 00:06:50,516 Speaker 1: this combination of terror and self criticism is yet another 137 00:06:50,556 --> 00:06:51,156 Speaker 1: fun killer. 138 00:06:51,556 --> 00:06:54,876 Speaker 3: I mean, if you're self conscious, you can't let yourself go, 139 00:06:55,196 --> 00:06:58,076 Speaker 3: and you can't really be playful, and it's harder to 140 00:06:58,116 --> 00:06:58,796 Speaker 3: be connected. 141 00:06:59,356 --> 00:07:01,716 Speaker 1: But the biggest way our self judgment can impede fun 142 00:07:02,036 --> 00:07:05,716 Speaker 1: is by reducing our flow. Negative self talk clogs up 143 00:07:05,716 --> 00:07:08,716 Speaker 1: our brains, inner monologues, with all those rapid fire thoughts 144 00:07:08,796 --> 00:07:11,116 Speaker 1: of oh my god, I suck so badly at this. 145 00:07:11,556 --> 00:07:13,796 Speaker 3: That's going to not make it possible for you to 146 00:07:13,836 --> 00:07:16,276 Speaker 3: be present. And again, if you're not present, you can't 147 00:07:16,276 --> 00:07:17,436 Speaker 3: be in flow, and if you're not in flow, you 148 00:07:17,436 --> 00:07:17,956 Speaker 3: can't have fun. 149 00:07:18,436 --> 00:07:20,956 Speaker 1: I did want to have more fun, so I reluctantly 150 00:07:20,956 --> 00:07:23,876 Speaker 1: agreed to Catherine's challenge. But I needed a way to 151 00:07:23,956 --> 00:07:27,076 Speaker 1: overcome all my angst about starting a new hobby from scratch, 152 00:07:27,676 --> 00:07:30,316 Speaker 1: So I decided to tag in a different kind of expert, 153 00:07:30,796 --> 00:07:32,876 Speaker 1: someone who's a pro at being a beginner. 154 00:07:33,116 --> 00:07:36,236 Speaker 5: This frightening email comes over from the elementary school. We're 155 00:07:36,236 --> 00:07:38,876 Speaker 5: having a parent talent day. You know, can you come 156 00:07:38,916 --> 00:07:40,276 Speaker 5: in and do something. 157 00:07:40,636 --> 00:07:43,916 Speaker 1: One fateful day journalist Tom Vanderbilt got a request that 158 00:07:43,996 --> 00:07:46,756 Speaker 1: changed his whole approach to life. What you need talent? 159 00:07:46,796 --> 00:07:48,716 Speaker 1: Could you show off to a room of twenty five 160 00:07:48,756 --> 00:07:52,196 Speaker 1: first graders at his daughter's school. He was a best 161 00:07:52,196 --> 00:07:53,156 Speaker 1: selling author. 162 00:07:53,356 --> 00:07:55,956 Speaker 5: But I couldn't really go in and write a paragraph 163 00:07:55,996 --> 00:07:57,596 Speaker 5: in front of a bunch of kids in a class. 164 00:07:57,876 --> 00:08:00,236 Speaker 5: We all have our job resumes, But if you step 165 00:08:00,236 --> 00:08:03,476 Speaker 5: away from just your career achievements, as important as they are, 166 00:08:03,516 --> 00:08:05,316 Speaker 5: you know what else are you doing in your life? 167 00:08:05,316 --> 00:08:08,076 Speaker 5: And might felt a little bit a little bit sparse. 168 00:08:09,116 --> 00:08:11,756 Speaker 1: One had the painful realization that he hadn't learned anything 169 00:08:11,796 --> 00:08:15,116 Speaker 1: new in a long time, which was ironic since Tom 170 00:08:15,156 --> 00:08:17,436 Speaker 1: spent a lot of his time chauffeuring his daughter from 171 00:08:17,476 --> 00:08:21,236 Speaker 1: chess class to swim practice and then piano lessons. While 172 00:08:21,236 --> 00:08:24,156 Speaker 1: she was off having fun and building new skills, Tom 173 00:08:24,196 --> 00:08:27,276 Speaker 1: sat there waiting for her class to finish, feeling bored 174 00:08:27,396 --> 00:08:29,156 Speaker 1: and mostly screwing around on his laptop. 175 00:08:29,316 --> 00:08:32,716 Speaker 5: Here I was taking her to all these sorts of lessons, 176 00:08:33,476 --> 00:08:35,396 Speaker 5: instilling in her you know how important it was I 177 00:08:35,436 --> 00:08:37,716 Speaker 5: thought to learn new things, to be as wide raging 178 00:08:37,796 --> 00:08:39,796 Speaker 5: as you can. And in my own life I had 179 00:08:39,956 --> 00:08:44,036 Speaker 5: kind of frozen in terms of learning these ambitious new skills. 180 00:08:44,076 --> 00:08:46,436 Speaker 5: You know sometime many decades ago, you know, sort of 181 00:08:46,436 --> 00:08:48,556 Speaker 5: too late. Why bother, I'm never going to be that great. 182 00:08:48,716 --> 00:08:50,396 Speaker 5: Sort of felt like it was a bit hypocritical of 183 00:08:50,436 --> 00:08:52,636 Speaker 5: me to be telling her this and not doing it myself. 184 00:08:53,036 --> 00:08:56,156 Speaker 1: Tom realized that, like many of us, he was suffering 185 00:08:56,196 --> 00:08:59,156 Speaker 1: from what Harvard psychologist Dan Gilbert calls the end of 186 00:08:59,236 --> 00:09:00,036 Speaker 1: history illusion. 187 00:09:00,596 --> 00:09:04,476 Speaker 5: I think people often think they are the finished person 188 00:09:04,516 --> 00:09:06,036 Speaker 5: they are going to be at any moment. 189 00:09:06,956 --> 00:09:09,716 Speaker 1: Gilbert and his colleagues found that if you ask people, well, hey, 190 00:09:09,836 --> 00:09:12,396 Speaker 1: how much do you think your personality, your preferences, and 191 00:09:12,436 --> 00:09:14,636 Speaker 1: your core values are going to change in the next 192 00:09:14,636 --> 00:09:17,636 Speaker 1: ten years, most people say they're not going to change 193 00:09:17,636 --> 00:09:20,276 Speaker 1: all that much. They assume all these really core things 194 00:09:20,316 --> 00:09:23,316 Speaker 1: about their identity are fixed, that their history in a 195 00:09:23,356 --> 00:09:26,916 Speaker 1: sense has ended. But if you ask the same people, hey, 196 00:09:26,996 --> 00:09:29,556 Speaker 1: if you look back at yourself ten years ago, how 197 00:09:29,636 --> 00:09:33,516 Speaker 1: much have your values, personality, and preferences changed, people usually 198 00:09:33,556 --> 00:09:36,316 Speaker 1: admit that they're really different than they were a decade ago, 199 00:09:36,476 --> 00:09:39,276 Speaker 1: that they've changed a lot. This is the end of 200 00:09:39,316 --> 00:09:41,996 Speaker 1: history illusion. We don't think we're going to change and 201 00:09:42,036 --> 00:09:44,116 Speaker 1: grow much, but we're wrong. 202 00:09:44,916 --> 00:09:47,156 Speaker 5: I don't have to be stuck as this person that 203 00:09:47,236 --> 00:09:49,956 Speaker 5: doesn't know how to do X, Y and Z. I 204 00:09:49,996 --> 00:09:51,916 Speaker 5: can start to try to do those things, even though 205 00:09:51,916 --> 00:09:53,356 Speaker 5: I'm middle aged. 206 00:09:53,876 --> 00:09:56,436 Speaker 1: That's why Tom decided to devote the next few years 207 00:09:56,476 --> 00:09:59,796 Speaker 1: to becoming a professional beginner, to picking up all the 208 00:09:59,836 --> 00:10:02,596 Speaker 1: tricky new skills he never got around to learning before. 209 00:10:03,716 --> 00:10:05,876 Speaker 1: It's also why he's going to try to convince me 210 00:10:06,036 --> 00:10:08,676 Speaker 1: that face planting into the water over and over again 211 00:10:09,396 --> 00:10:11,236 Speaker 1: just be the thing I need for the next step 212 00:10:11,276 --> 00:10:12,156 Speaker 1: of my funtervention. 213 00:10:12,556 --> 00:10:14,276 Speaker 5: Surfing is one of those great things where even even 214 00:10:14,316 --> 00:10:15,796 Speaker 5: the wipeouts are quite fun. 215 00:10:16,436 --> 00:10:18,076 Speaker 1: The happiness lab will be right back. 216 00:10:26,356 --> 00:10:28,836 Speaker 5: I use the example of the movie The Queen's Gambit, 217 00:10:28,836 --> 00:10:30,836 Speaker 5: which I thought was a great film for a popular 218 00:10:30,836 --> 00:10:33,116 Speaker 5: film on Netflix. It seems like everyone saw that. 219 00:10:33,836 --> 00:10:36,756 Speaker 1: Tom Vanderbilt finds it a bit sad that people devoted 220 00:10:36,796 --> 00:10:39,396 Speaker 1: hours and hours to watching a drama about someone who 221 00:10:39,476 --> 00:10:40,196 Speaker 1: learns to play. 222 00:10:40,076 --> 00:10:42,116 Speaker 5: Chess instead of watching The Queen's gab But if you 223 00:10:42,276 --> 00:10:44,996 Speaker 5: tried to take five or six hours of chess instruction, 224 00:10:45,396 --> 00:10:47,876 Speaker 5: you could actually pick up a fair amount of the game. 225 00:10:48,676 --> 00:10:51,836 Speaker 1: After years on the sidelines watching his daughter learn stuff, 226 00:10:52,076 --> 00:10:53,636 Speaker 1: he decided to get involved too. 227 00:10:54,036 --> 00:10:56,436 Speaker 5: I signed up a coach of all things to try 228 00:10:56,476 --> 00:10:58,836 Speaker 5: to teach her to play chess, and then I jumped on, 229 00:10:59,116 --> 00:11:01,116 Speaker 5: which was a bit strange. You had these two beginners 230 00:11:01,116 --> 00:11:03,156 Speaker 5: that were separated by four decades. 231 00:11:03,916 --> 00:11:06,716 Speaker 1: Tom didn't stop there. He learned how to sing, how 232 00:11:06,756 --> 00:11:09,116 Speaker 1: to draw, how to deep water swim, how to juggle, 233 00:11:09,396 --> 00:11:12,076 Speaker 1: how to surf, and, since he ended up losing his 234 00:11:12,116 --> 00:11:15,796 Speaker 1: wedding ring wall surfing, how to make jewelry. He chronicled 235 00:11:15,836 --> 00:11:18,316 Speaker 1: all this in a book called Beginners, The Joy and 236 00:11:18,356 --> 00:11:22,076 Speaker 1: Transformative Power of Lifelong Learning. Tom says it's less of 237 00:11:22,076 --> 00:11:24,956 Speaker 1: a how to book and more of a why to book, 238 00:11:25,596 --> 00:11:27,356 Speaker 1: and the why has a lot to do with the 239 00:11:27,396 --> 00:11:30,236 Speaker 1: fact that learning can make us feel way more present. 240 00:11:30,756 --> 00:11:34,076 Speaker 5: Being a beginner is almost by definition mindful, because you 241 00:11:34,116 --> 00:11:37,596 Speaker 5: go into an activity really knowing nothing. You know, you're 242 00:11:37,676 --> 00:11:41,316 Speaker 5: your loss, you're you're sort of clueless, and that demands, 243 00:11:41,396 --> 00:11:45,236 Speaker 5: you know, almost total attention. And that also felt very 244 00:11:45,236 --> 00:11:47,556 Speaker 5: powerful to me, because you know, this idea, especially in 245 00:11:47,596 --> 00:11:51,636 Speaker 5: contemporary society, of being so endlessly distracted. None of these 246 00:11:51,636 --> 00:11:55,236 Speaker 5: activities I was involved in was my phone present. You know. 247 00:11:55,436 --> 00:11:57,396 Speaker 5: I would draw for three hours and it felt like 248 00:11:57,476 --> 00:12:00,756 Speaker 5: ten minutes and I would look up and just that. 249 00:12:00,836 --> 00:12:03,916 Speaker 5: Having that sense of deep engagement was also really refreshing. 250 00:12:04,916 --> 00:12:07,596 Speaker 1: Being an amateur also brought tom the excitement that comes 251 00:12:07,636 --> 00:12:10,636 Speaker 1: from novelty. I had to learn about ocean waves and 252 00:12:10,716 --> 00:12:14,716 Speaker 1: musical skills and the bendable properties of metals. The freshness 253 00:12:14,796 --> 00:12:17,556 Speaker 1: of all these new topics made it really easy to focus. 254 00:12:17,876 --> 00:12:20,516 Speaker 5: I equate it in the book to sort of falling 255 00:12:20,556 --> 00:12:20,916 Speaker 5: in love. 256 00:12:21,916 --> 00:12:25,876 Speaker 1: Fittingly, the word amateur comes from the Italian amatore, to love, 257 00:12:26,756 --> 00:12:30,156 Speaker 1: and even that more pejorative sounding term for a beginner, diletant, 258 00:12:30,476 --> 00:12:34,076 Speaker 1: comes from the Latin delictare to delight, And if you 259 00:12:34,156 --> 00:12:37,276 Speaker 1: listen to my last episode, you know experiencing delight is 260 00:12:37,316 --> 00:12:38,636 Speaker 1: pretty good for your happiness. 261 00:12:39,316 --> 00:12:41,956 Speaker 5: You're just plunging into this new world with new lingo, 262 00:12:42,116 --> 00:12:44,356 Speaker 5: new equipment. You're moving your body in new ways that 263 00:12:44,396 --> 00:12:46,276 Speaker 5: you're thinking in new ways, and I feel like your 264 00:12:46,316 --> 00:12:47,996 Speaker 5: brain is sort of on fire. 265 00:12:48,516 --> 00:12:50,596 Speaker 1: And the science shows that firing up your brain in 266 00:12:50,636 --> 00:12:53,716 Speaker 1: this way is probably a good thing. Research by the 267 00:12:53,716 --> 00:12:57,156 Speaker 1: psychologist Denise Park has found that learning new skills may 268 00:12:57,236 --> 00:13:00,716 Speaker 1: help prevent the usual cognitive decline that comes as we age. 269 00:13:01,076 --> 00:13:03,676 Speaker 5: She had groups of adults learn a skill collectively in 270 00:13:03,716 --> 00:13:06,156 Speaker 5: a class, and she had other groups of adults get 271 00:13:06,196 --> 00:13:08,076 Speaker 5: together and just socialize. 272 00:13:08,236 --> 00:13:11,076 Speaker 1: The older adults took a class on photography or quilting 273 00:13:11,236 --> 00:13:14,396 Speaker 1: did significantly better on tests of memory and processing speed 274 00:13:14,556 --> 00:13:17,916 Speaker 1: than adults who merely got together. I find these results 275 00:13:17,956 --> 00:13:20,436 Speaker 1: really striking. I mean, you wouldn't think that learning a 276 00:13:20,476 --> 00:13:23,396 Speaker 1: specific skill like how to stitch or when to adjust 277 00:13:23,396 --> 00:13:25,796 Speaker 1: a shutter speed would have a big effect on more 278 00:13:25,796 --> 00:13:29,836 Speaker 1: important general cognitive abilities. We mostly just start new things 279 00:13:29,876 --> 00:13:32,836 Speaker 1: because we think they'll be fun. But becoming a beginner 280 00:13:32,836 --> 00:13:35,196 Speaker 1: in a random activity seems to give us a bigger 281 00:13:35,236 --> 00:13:38,956 Speaker 1: cognitive leg up than we realize. Even for the smartest 282 00:13:38,956 --> 00:13:39,676 Speaker 1: folks out there. 283 00:13:40,116 --> 00:13:42,476 Speaker 5: One of the weird variables that seem to distinguish the 284 00:13:42,556 --> 00:13:45,116 Speaker 5: Nobel Prize winners was that they had a higher tendency 285 00:13:45,196 --> 00:13:49,676 Speaker 5: to be involved in some kind of extracurricular activity, hobby, skill, 286 00:13:49,716 --> 00:13:50,636 Speaker 5: whatever you want to call it. 287 00:13:51,396 --> 00:13:54,396 Speaker 1: But hobbies like these don't just boost our brains. Tom 288 00:13:54,436 --> 00:13:57,556 Speaker 1: found that his new pursuits also had a surprisingly positive 289 00:13:57,556 --> 00:13:59,756 Speaker 1: effect on his sense of personal identity. 290 00:13:59,996 --> 00:14:02,916 Speaker 5: There's this interesting thing that happens when you take up 291 00:14:02,996 --> 00:14:05,236 Speaker 5: these skills that in the beginning, you're thinking of them 292 00:14:05,276 --> 00:14:08,796 Speaker 5: purely as a verb. I'm trying to serve. I'm trying 293 00:14:08,796 --> 00:14:11,036 Speaker 5: to do that. But then at some point feel comfortable 294 00:14:11,036 --> 00:14:13,076 Speaker 5: to shift to the noun phase and you say, you know, 295 00:14:13,156 --> 00:14:16,236 Speaker 5: I'm a singer, I'm a surfer. I've expanded instantly the 296 00:14:16,356 --> 00:14:18,676 Speaker 5: sensation of who I am, and the. 297 00:14:18,636 --> 00:14:21,876 Speaker 1: Science shows that this self expansion can enhance something else 298 00:14:21,916 --> 00:14:25,956 Speaker 1: that's known to boost our happiness, our relationships. Couples who 299 00:14:25,956 --> 00:14:31,316 Speaker 1: participate in novel challenging activities together experience boosts in relationship satisfaction. 300 00:14:31,916 --> 00:14:34,396 Speaker 1: The fun that comes from being a beginner seems to 301 00:14:34,396 --> 00:14:37,876 Speaker 1: be contagious. But the biggest benefit of becoming a beginner 302 00:14:38,116 --> 00:14:40,596 Speaker 1: was something I really needed for my own funder mention. 303 00:14:41,196 --> 00:14:43,316 Speaker 1: Learning a new skill is a great way to fight 304 00:14:43,396 --> 00:14:45,516 Speaker 1: all our self judgment and perfectionism. 305 00:14:45,916 --> 00:14:47,836 Speaker 5: If you're going to do something, you have to be 306 00:14:47,916 --> 00:14:50,156 Speaker 5: great at it. You have to commoditize it, turn into 307 00:14:50,196 --> 00:14:54,236 Speaker 5: a profitable side hustle. Otherwise you're sort of wasting your time. 308 00:14:55,156 --> 00:14:58,276 Speaker 1: After experiencing the benefits of being a beginner, Tom has 309 00:14:58,356 --> 00:15:00,916 Speaker 1: dropped this sort of be perfect at all costs mantra. 310 00:15:01,316 --> 00:15:03,516 Speaker 5: I like to quote the writer GK. Chesterton has said, 311 00:15:03,516 --> 00:15:05,956 Speaker 5: you know, anything worth doing is worth doing badly. 312 00:15:06,636 --> 00:15:09,476 Speaker 1: Tom's book chronicles lots of cases when we learn best 313 00:15:09,476 --> 00:15:12,196 Speaker 1: when we're doing activities that teeter just on the edge 314 00:15:12,196 --> 00:15:15,756 Speaker 1: of what we find impossible. He saw this firsthand during 315 00:15:15,756 --> 00:15:17,956 Speaker 1: his book research, when he started hanging out with a 316 00:15:17,956 --> 00:15:21,596 Speaker 1: population that finds lots of things impossible, a group you 317 00:15:21,636 --> 00:15:24,836 Speaker 1: might consider to be the ultimate beginners, babies. 318 00:15:25,476 --> 00:15:28,076 Speaker 5: I spent some time with doctor Karen Aidolf at NYU 319 00:15:28,356 --> 00:15:31,636 Speaker 5: studying how infants learn to walk and to move, and 320 00:15:31,996 --> 00:15:34,316 Speaker 5: one of the keys to this learning process is failure. 321 00:15:34,396 --> 00:15:36,756 Speaker 5: I mean, they fail a lot. Kids have been photographed 322 00:15:36,796 --> 00:15:39,636 Speaker 5: falling up to seventy times an hour, So we should 323 00:15:39,676 --> 00:15:41,236 Speaker 5: just embrace failure. 324 00:15:41,836 --> 00:15:44,876 Speaker 1: The problem, of course, is that failure doesn't really feel good, 325 00:15:45,316 --> 00:15:48,756 Speaker 1: which is why Tom practices self compassion, that act of 326 00:15:48,836 --> 00:15:53,116 Speaker 1: recognizing that you're human and talking to yourself compassionately instead 327 00:15:53,156 --> 00:15:54,636 Speaker 1: of like a critical drill sergeant. 328 00:15:54,996 --> 00:15:58,156 Speaker 5: Larger than the physical obstacle is that mental obstacle. I 329 00:15:58,156 --> 00:16:01,316 Speaker 5: think positive self talk is a key strategy in all this. 330 00:16:02,036 --> 00:16:05,036 Speaker 1: As I heard Tom talk more about cultivating positive self 331 00:16:05,076 --> 00:16:08,156 Speaker 1: talk and the benefits that come from embracing failure, I 332 00:16:08,196 --> 00:16:10,476 Speaker 1: decided to choose a be for my fun invention that, 333 00:16:10,636 --> 00:16:13,036 Speaker 1: at least for me, really felt like it was on 334 00:16:13,076 --> 00:16:16,436 Speaker 1: the edge of impossible, something I thought i'd definitely have 335 00:16:16,596 --> 00:16:18,996 Speaker 1: no possible way of being good at. And since it 336 00:16:19,036 --> 00:16:21,596 Speaker 1: was summertime, I also liked the idea of an activity 337 00:16:21,676 --> 00:16:25,356 Speaker 1: that involved hitting the beach, and so I decided that I, 338 00:16:25,396 --> 00:16:28,156 Speaker 1: a middle aged, mostly out of shape Ivory Tower dwelling 339 00:16:28,236 --> 00:16:31,876 Speaker 1: professor with bad knees and no coordination, was going to 340 00:16:31,916 --> 00:16:38,636 Speaker 1: try surfing. I announced my decision to Tom, explaining how 341 00:16:38,676 --> 00:16:41,076 Speaker 1: sure I was that I would absolutely suck at the sport. 342 00:16:41,396 --> 00:16:43,636 Speaker 5: Have you ever actually tried to serve before? 343 00:16:44,196 --> 00:16:44,316 Speaker 1: Like? 344 00:16:44,516 --> 00:16:45,356 Speaker 2: So no, Like. 345 00:16:46,956 --> 00:16:50,356 Speaker 5: Lucus traits is an interesting point that you're saying, you 346 00:16:50,516 --> 00:16:52,436 Speaker 5: know you're going to be bad at it, which is 347 00:16:52,516 --> 00:16:55,196 Speaker 5: already that negative self talk coming up. 348 00:16:55,796 --> 00:16:58,996 Speaker 1: All right, touche, I was already admitting defeat in my 349 00:16:59,076 --> 00:17:00,836 Speaker 1: head before I'd even gotten started. 350 00:17:01,236 --> 00:17:03,396 Speaker 5: You really don't know how you're going to be because 351 00:17:03,396 --> 00:17:06,396 Speaker 5: you don't know what that thing is. But you may 352 00:17:06,596 --> 00:17:09,436 Speaker 5: actually try it and discover that you're actually a depth 353 00:17:09,476 --> 00:17:11,356 Speaker 5: at it, or that you take to it more than 354 00:17:11,356 --> 00:17:12,356 Speaker 5: you thought you could. 355 00:17:13,196 --> 00:17:15,796 Speaker 1: Maybe Tom was right, Maybe I would be better at 356 00:17:15,796 --> 00:17:18,396 Speaker 1: this than I expected. Maybe I'd be so good at 357 00:17:18,396 --> 00:17:21,276 Speaker 1: surfing that I dropped the whole podcasting thing and just 358 00:17:21,316 --> 00:17:24,276 Speaker 1: become a full time beach bunny. Maybe I'd be a 359 00:17:24,316 --> 00:17:27,556 Speaker 1: total natural on the board. That's probably how it's going 360 00:17:27,636 --> 00:17:29,476 Speaker 1: to go, right Tom, I. 361 00:17:29,396 --> 00:17:31,356 Speaker 5: Wasn't able to get up on the board on my 362 00:17:31,396 --> 00:17:33,676 Speaker 5: first afternoon out. I spent a lot of time on 363 00:17:33,716 --> 00:17:35,996 Speaker 5: my knees, you know, sort of almost standing. I spend 364 00:17:35,996 --> 00:17:38,276 Speaker 5: a lot of time falling. The surfing is a very 365 00:17:38,276 --> 00:17:41,676 Speaker 5: difficult activity. The ocean is very dynamic place. You are 366 00:17:41,756 --> 00:17:42,836 Speaker 5: probably going to fail. 367 00:17:43,916 --> 00:17:46,556 Speaker 1: That wasn't the rounding endorsement I was expecting. 368 00:17:46,876 --> 00:17:48,556 Speaker 5: I'm not going to lie, I'm not going to sugarcoat it. 369 00:17:48,596 --> 00:17:51,036 Speaker 5: You're going to look foolish. You might get hurt, but 370 00:17:51,196 --> 00:17:53,236 Speaker 5: we have the ability to get back up and move on. 371 00:17:54,356 --> 00:17:57,156 Speaker 1: Apparently I'd picked an activity that really would test my 372 00:17:57,236 --> 00:18:00,676 Speaker 1: ability to be self compassionate in the face of sucking badly. 373 00:18:01,476 --> 00:18:04,156 Speaker 1: But Tom still thought I should go for it, because 374 00:18:04,236 --> 00:18:06,156 Speaker 1: sucking badly was kind of the point. 375 00:18:06,596 --> 00:18:08,516 Speaker 5: What do you have to lose? In fact, you have 376 00:18:08,516 --> 00:18:11,196 Speaker 5: to gain quite a bit. I would argue, surfing badly 377 00:18:11,436 --> 00:18:15,396 Speaker 5: is still a very fun activity that will bring you joy. 378 00:18:15,476 --> 00:18:17,756 Speaker 5: You don't have to be amazing at it. 379 00:18:19,316 --> 00:18:22,596 Speaker 1: Immediately after my chat with Tom Fate seemed to intervene, 380 00:18:23,036 --> 00:18:26,236 Speaker 1: my college friend Lucy texted me her family was headed 381 00:18:26,236 --> 00:18:29,476 Speaker 1: to a nearby beach house. Beach of course met waves 382 00:18:29,796 --> 00:18:32,196 Speaker 1: and waves were just the thing I needed for the 383 00:18:32,236 --> 00:18:35,476 Speaker 1: next step of my Funtervention. I asked Lucy if she 384 00:18:35,596 --> 00:18:38,956 Speaker 1: joined me for a surf lesson, let me think about it. 385 00:18:39,076 --> 00:18:43,116 Speaker 1: That was her non committal response. Actually, she followed up, 386 00:18:43,396 --> 00:18:45,956 Speaker 1: my husband says I have to do this, so I'm in. 387 00:18:46,636 --> 00:18:48,756 Speaker 1: Before she could change her mind, I went online and 388 00:18:48,796 --> 00:18:52,236 Speaker 1: found the Little Compton Surf Shop, a small, family run place. 389 00:18:52,996 --> 00:18:55,556 Speaker 1: What I liked most about this particular surf shop was 390 00:18:55,596 --> 00:18:58,196 Speaker 1: the huge quote on their web page that read, the 391 00:18:58,236 --> 00:19:00,676 Speaker 1: best surfer out there is the one that's having the 392 00:19:00,716 --> 00:19:04,476 Speaker 1: most fun. I was ready to be just that best surfer. 393 00:19:04,796 --> 00:19:08,876 Speaker 1: I booked a lesson for two Operation Funtervention. Surfing Safari 394 00:19:09,276 --> 00:19:12,236 Speaker 1: was on and you'll get to hear just how it 395 00:19:12,276 --> 00:19:14,876 Speaker 1: went when the Happiness Lab returns in a moment. 396 00:19:32,116 --> 00:19:34,356 Speaker 5: The boys aren't too big, which is fun. 397 00:19:34,596 --> 00:19:37,156 Speaker 4: Yeah, there is playing at the dinner Land here. 398 00:19:38,156 --> 00:19:40,836 Speaker 1: One warm August morning, I headed to Rhode Island with 399 00:19:40,836 --> 00:19:44,196 Speaker 1: my good friend from college, Lucy Bisiano, armed with her 400 00:19:44,236 --> 00:19:46,916 Speaker 1: social support, a beach towel, a wet suit, and the 401 00:19:46,956 --> 00:19:49,836 Speaker 1: strongest hairband I own. I was ready to become the 402 00:19:49,836 --> 00:19:53,396 Speaker 1: embodiment of the immortal words of George Bernard Shaw that 403 00:19:53,556 --> 00:19:56,756 Speaker 1: man progresses in all things by making a fool of himself. 404 00:19:57,836 --> 00:20:02,596 Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, trucks Lucy. 405 00:20:02,876 --> 00:20:04,876 Speaker 3: Hello, she's recording. 406 00:20:05,396 --> 00:20:07,876 Speaker 5: Oh no, worry as a window. 407 00:20:09,956 --> 00:20:11,396 Speaker 3: It's like really bad. 408 00:20:11,436 --> 00:20:12,356 Speaker 5: Actually planted not to be. 409 00:20:14,956 --> 00:20:17,036 Speaker 1: We met our surf instructors for the day, and I 410 00:20:17,076 --> 00:20:19,996 Speaker 1: handed my recording gear off to Lucy's daughter, Alice, who 411 00:20:20,036 --> 00:20:23,036 Speaker 1: agreed to act as my guest producer, or at least 412 00:20:23,036 --> 00:20:25,556 Speaker 1: to try to. The wind wasn't really helping us all 413 00:20:25,636 --> 00:20:34,396 Speaker 1: that much. After some safety instructions, warm up jumping jacks, 414 00:20:34,476 --> 00:20:37,076 Speaker 1: and practice pop ups on the shore, we grabbed our 415 00:20:37,116 --> 00:20:50,516 Speaker 1: boards and paddled out into the sea. My lesson was amazing, 416 00:20:51,236 --> 00:20:53,796 Speaker 1: not because I caught a bunch of killer waves like 417 00:20:53,876 --> 00:20:56,316 Speaker 1: Tom Vanderbilt. I didn't really figure out how to stand 418 00:20:56,396 --> 00:20:58,996 Speaker 1: up on the board during that first lesson. I also 419 00:20:59,036 --> 00:21:02,316 Speaker 1: wiped out pretty badly trying. I got more salt water 420 00:21:02,436 --> 00:21:04,356 Speaker 1: up my nose in that hour and a half lesson 421 00:21:04,516 --> 00:21:08,156 Speaker 1: than I have in my entire life. These things should 422 00:21:08,156 --> 00:21:12,436 Speaker 1: have felt unpleasant, but they didn't. The whole experience was 423 00:21:12,556 --> 00:21:16,156 Speaker 1: so fun. Unlike with most other activities I've done, I 424 00:21:16,236 --> 00:21:18,556 Speaker 1: was able to focus not on the product being able 425 00:21:18,596 --> 00:21:21,676 Speaker 1: to catch a huge wave, but on the process. How 426 00:21:21,676 --> 00:21:23,996 Speaker 1: it felt to be lying on the board, how I 427 00:21:24,116 --> 00:21:26,396 Speaker 1: was balancing better and better as the waves rolled by, 428 00:21:26,876 --> 00:21:28,916 Speaker 1: how fun it was to chat with my surf instructor, 429 00:21:29,396 --> 00:21:30,996 Speaker 1: and just how nice it felt to be in the 430 00:21:31,036 --> 00:21:34,316 Speaker 1: sun and the waves on a perfect summer day. I 431 00:21:34,356 --> 00:21:37,276 Speaker 1: expected my arms and legs to be sore afterwards, and 432 00:21:37,356 --> 00:21:40,796 Speaker 1: they were for days actually, But the thing that hurt 433 00:21:40,796 --> 00:21:44,556 Speaker 1: the most after my lesson was my face from smiling 434 00:21:44,596 --> 00:21:50,316 Speaker 1: and laughing so much. I was excited to tell my guru, 435 00:21:50,396 --> 00:21:54,116 Speaker 1: Catherine Price, about my fun prevention surfing success, that I 436 00:21:54,156 --> 00:21:56,476 Speaker 1: did something that I was really bad at and that 437 00:21:56,556 --> 00:21:59,756 Speaker 1: at times was absurdly unpleasant, but that it wound up 438 00:21:59,796 --> 00:22:02,036 Speaker 1: being one of the most fun things I've done in 439 00:22:02,076 --> 00:22:04,916 Speaker 1: a long time. But Catherine didn't want me to rest 440 00:22:04,956 --> 00:22:07,316 Speaker 1: on my laurels. She thought it was now time to 441 00:22:07,356 --> 00:22:09,716 Speaker 1: move on to the final step of my f funtervention 442 00:22:10,396 --> 00:22:14,596 Speaker 1: discovering ways to find more everyday fun. My first surfing 443 00:22:14,676 --> 00:22:17,876 Speaker 1: lesson was a total blast, but as a busy professor, 444 00:22:17,996 --> 00:22:21,236 Speaker 1: I probably couldn't spend every day driving across state lines 445 00:22:21,276 --> 00:22:24,556 Speaker 1: to hit the waves, which raised a question, how could 446 00:22:24,556 --> 00:22:26,676 Speaker 1: I start finding more fun each and every day. 447 00:22:27,276 --> 00:22:29,396 Speaker 3: So the universal definition of fun, I would argue, is 448 00:22:29,396 --> 00:22:31,396 Speaker 3: that it's a state of playful, connected flow. But each 449 00:22:31,476 --> 00:22:34,116 Speaker 3: of us find that state through different things, and something 450 00:22:34,156 --> 00:22:36,476 Speaker 3: that you find fun, I might not find fun at all, 451 00:22:36,516 --> 00:22:37,196 Speaker 3: and vice versa. 452 00:22:37,916 --> 00:22:40,956 Speaker 1: That is the purpose of what Catherine calls the fun audit, 453 00:22:41,436 --> 00:22:45,476 Speaker 1: examining your own personal fun history. Catherine recommends getting a 454 00:22:45,516 --> 00:22:48,796 Speaker 1: notebook and journaling about past times in which you experienced 455 00:22:48,876 --> 00:22:52,476 Speaker 1: true fun. What were those so fun moments that you treasure, 456 00:22:53,036 --> 00:22:56,316 Speaker 1: List them out and analyze them in detail. Who was there, 457 00:22:56,636 --> 00:22:59,636 Speaker 1: what was the setting, what were you doing? Dig into 458 00:22:59,636 --> 00:23:01,916 Speaker 1: them like a private investigator. 459 00:23:01,436 --> 00:23:04,476 Speaker 3: Really mind them for details that might help you generate 460 00:23:04,596 --> 00:23:07,196 Speaker 3: more experiences like that in the future. And once you 461 00:23:07,276 --> 00:23:08,876 Speaker 3: have that, once you have a sense of the people 462 00:23:08,916 --> 00:23:11,396 Speaker 3: and the activities in the settings that often are associated 463 00:23:11,436 --> 00:23:14,356 Speaker 3: with fun for you, you can go to the next level, 464 00:23:14,356 --> 00:23:16,676 Speaker 3: which is what I call figuring out your fun factors, 465 00:23:17,076 --> 00:23:20,356 Speaker 3: and those are the characteristics of those people, or those settings, 466 00:23:20,396 --> 00:23:23,996 Speaker 3: or those activities that are in some way responsible for 467 00:23:24,036 --> 00:23:24,476 Speaker 3: the fun. 468 00:23:25,316 --> 00:23:28,196 Speaker 1: Doing my own personal fun audit with Catherine was perhaps 469 00:23:28,236 --> 00:23:31,796 Speaker 1: not surprisingly kind of fun. I told her about goofy 470 00:23:31,836 --> 00:23:34,516 Speaker 1: Halloween parties that I had with my grad school roommates, 471 00:23:34,956 --> 00:23:37,876 Speaker 1: trips to a Boardwalk video arcade with my husband, the 472 00:23:37,916 --> 00:23:40,676 Speaker 1: time my producer Ryan and I were unexpectedly given a 473 00:23:40,716 --> 00:23:43,596 Speaker 1: rental sports car and got to drive around San Francisco 474 00:23:43,676 --> 00:23:46,636 Speaker 1: listening to Duran Duran on repeat. And one of my 475 00:23:46,756 --> 00:23:50,036 Speaker 1: most treasured so fun memories, which happened when I traveled 476 00:23:50,036 --> 00:23:52,476 Speaker 1: to Texas for a conference a few years ago. So 477 00:23:52,636 --> 00:23:55,796 Speaker 1: there's this movie theater in Austin called the Alamo Draft House. 478 00:23:56,116 --> 00:23:58,596 Speaker 1: They have a whole set of things called Eighties singalongs 479 00:23:58,876 --> 00:24:02,836 Speaker 1: where they play music videos from the eighties that they've 480 00:24:02,956 --> 00:24:05,756 Speaker 1: edited to have the text. So it's kind of like 481 00:24:05,836 --> 00:24:08,636 Speaker 1: karaoke where you can see what the lyrics are, but 482 00:24:08,676 --> 00:24:11,996 Speaker 1: you're to sing over the music videos and they give 483 00:24:12,036 --> 00:24:15,756 Speaker 1: you like eighties gear and glow sticks and like inflatable 484 00:24:15,796 --> 00:24:19,236 Speaker 1: microphones and all these things. And this is like the 485 00:24:19,236 --> 00:24:21,556 Speaker 1: most fun I've had in my life. So these are 486 00:24:21,596 --> 00:24:23,876 Speaker 1: just like, oh my gosh, she's got pictures some images. 487 00:24:24,196 --> 00:24:26,836 Speaker 1: So these are micrap students. You can see the costumes, 488 00:24:26,876 --> 00:24:30,276 Speaker 1: inflatable mics and things like that. This is me, you see. 489 00:24:30,196 --> 00:24:33,676 Speaker 3: Because a green inflatable guitar and a pink hairbow. Yes, 490 00:24:34,076 --> 00:24:34,916 Speaker 3: that looks amazing. 491 00:24:35,556 --> 00:24:38,756 Speaker 1: Analyzing the common features of all these events, looking for 492 00:24:38,796 --> 00:24:42,236 Speaker 1: what Catherine calls the fun factors, I noticed a few 493 00:24:42,316 --> 00:24:46,756 Speaker 1: important commonalities. All these fun times were social, and most 494 00:24:46,756 --> 00:24:49,356 Speaker 1: of them had an active element, like dancing or moving 495 00:24:49,356 --> 00:24:52,916 Speaker 1: my body. There was also a lot of spontaneity involved, 496 00:24:53,276 --> 00:24:55,836 Speaker 1: like trying something new or traveling to a new place 497 00:24:56,716 --> 00:25:00,236 Speaker 1: my so fun activities also involved a healthy dose of absurdity, 498 00:25:00,836 --> 00:25:04,676 Speaker 1: think inflatable microphones or getting a ridiculous sports car, or 499 00:25:04,676 --> 00:25:07,996 Speaker 1: the crazy costumes I had at my eighties singalong. But 500 00:25:08,076 --> 00:25:10,996 Speaker 1: there was one specific fun factor that really surprised me. 501 00:25:11,396 --> 00:25:13,036 Speaker 1: It seems like one of my fun factors that I 502 00:25:13,036 --> 00:25:16,076 Speaker 1: wouldn't have expected actually is music, which is surprising because 503 00:25:16,076 --> 00:25:19,356 Speaker 1: I'm not musically inclined at all. I don't play an instrument, 504 00:25:19,356 --> 00:25:21,476 Speaker 1: I don't think of myself as a good singer. But 505 00:25:21,516 --> 00:25:24,276 Speaker 1: when I think to moments of peak fun, they have 506 00:25:24,396 --> 00:25:28,156 Speaker 1: this element of music. Finding surprises like these is just 507 00:25:28,196 --> 00:25:30,556 Speaker 1: the sort of insight a fun audit can bring, and 508 00:25:30,596 --> 00:25:33,636 Speaker 1: everyone's audit's going to look different. You might detest music 509 00:25:33,676 --> 00:25:36,596 Speaker 1: and costumes, but might really love being physical, or being 510 00:25:36,596 --> 00:25:39,276 Speaker 1: out in nature or taking risks. The key is to 511 00:25:39,276 --> 00:25:42,156 Speaker 1: figure out the specific fun factors that make up your 512 00:25:42,196 --> 00:25:45,756 Speaker 1: own personal recipe for fun. But Catherine's found that we 513 00:25:45,836 --> 00:25:48,516 Speaker 1: also need to analyze are anti fun factors. 514 00:25:49,036 --> 00:25:52,636 Speaker 3: They're characteristics that if those characteristics are present in an experience, 515 00:25:52,676 --> 00:25:54,636 Speaker 3: you're probably not going to have fun. And I think 516 00:25:54,636 --> 00:25:57,916 Speaker 3: it's very important to put some attention into identifying them 517 00:25:57,956 --> 00:26:00,356 Speaker 3: because in a lot of cases, other people might find 518 00:26:00,396 --> 00:26:02,636 Speaker 3: them fun, and you might find yourself getting dragged belong 519 00:26:02,716 --> 00:26:04,956 Speaker 3: to these experiences and then wondering why you never had fun. 520 00:26:05,396 --> 00:26:08,156 Speaker 1: Thinking about my own experiences, I realized that one of 521 00:26:08,156 --> 00:26:12,436 Speaker 1: my key anti fun facts is competition. But if there 522 00:26:12,436 --> 00:26:15,316 Speaker 1: are games that we're playing that are cooperative or that 523 00:26:15,356 --> 00:26:17,836 Speaker 1: are just about the absurdity of the game or something, 524 00:26:18,356 --> 00:26:20,836 Speaker 1: I'm really into it. But when a game has like 525 00:26:20,996 --> 00:26:24,276 Speaker 1: obvious winners and losers, it's like less fun for me. 526 00:26:24,836 --> 00:26:26,956 Speaker 3: I love things like taboo where I get to be 527 00:26:27,036 --> 00:26:30,956 Speaker 3: totally weird, and I mean, I guess that's technically a competition, 528 00:26:30,996 --> 00:26:33,276 Speaker 3: but it's just so silly that it doesn't really matter. 529 00:26:33,916 --> 00:26:36,836 Speaker 1: Just as with fun factors, your own anti fun factors 530 00:26:36,916 --> 00:26:39,956 Speaker 1: are going to be really personal. You might love competition, 531 00:26:40,196 --> 00:26:42,916 Speaker 1: but to test the beach or getting dirty or any 532 00:26:42,956 --> 00:26:46,316 Speaker 1: activities that involve a lot of preparation or equipment, there 533 00:26:46,316 --> 00:26:48,676 Speaker 1: are lots of things that could be an anti fun factor. 534 00:26:49,196 --> 00:26:51,316 Speaker 1: And that's why it's so important to put time into 535 00:26:51,316 --> 00:26:54,436 Speaker 1: thinking about what you liked and didn't like in the past. 536 00:26:54,356 --> 00:26:56,636 Speaker 3: Because the better you understand these things, the easier it 537 00:26:56,636 --> 00:26:58,996 Speaker 3: will be for you to spend your time wisely, frankly. 538 00:26:59,196 --> 00:27:01,236 Speaker 3: And if you can understand that, then you can make 539 00:27:01,276 --> 00:27:03,916 Speaker 3: different choices about how you're going to spend your leisure time, which, 540 00:27:04,036 --> 00:27:05,956 Speaker 3: while we do have I think more available to us 541 00:27:05,956 --> 00:27:07,596 Speaker 3: than we realize, because we're wasting a lot of it 542 00:27:07,676 --> 00:27:08,836 Speaker 3: right now, it is limited. 543 00:27:09,516 --> 00:27:11,476 Speaker 1: I thought back to how I often spend my own 544 00:27:11,516 --> 00:27:13,796 Speaker 1: free time. When I get a break, I tend to 545 00:27:13,836 --> 00:27:16,916 Speaker 1: do something passive, like plopping down on the couch and 546 00:27:16,956 --> 00:27:20,836 Speaker 1: watching Netflix or reading a book. Leisure activities like that 547 00:27:20,916 --> 00:27:24,796 Speaker 1: are relaxing, but they're definitely not fun. In the playful, connected, 548 00:27:24,836 --> 00:27:28,196 Speaker 1: flow inducing sense, and they usually don't involve almost any 549 00:27:28,276 --> 00:27:31,636 Speaker 1: of the fun factors I just identified my fun audit 550 00:27:31,676 --> 00:27:33,916 Speaker 1: revealed that to get more everyday fun, I need to 551 00:27:33,916 --> 00:27:37,236 Speaker 1: be doing more stuff that involves music, or having friends around, 552 00:27:37,596 --> 00:27:39,716 Speaker 1: or taking part in activities that feel a bit more 553 00:27:39,796 --> 00:27:43,516 Speaker 1: physical or spontaneous. I also need to find ways to 554 00:27:43,596 --> 00:27:46,796 Speaker 1: recreate that singalong from my Texas trip, which was a 555 00:27:46,796 --> 00:27:50,116 Speaker 1: fun factor that Catherine supported more than I had expected. 556 00:27:51,156 --> 00:27:53,236 Speaker 3: You and I clearly share a lot of fun factors, 557 00:27:53,396 --> 00:27:55,196 Speaker 3: like a lot of them, because that looks like my 558 00:27:55,276 --> 00:27:57,516 Speaker 3: dream fun. Also, I want to be there right now. 559 00:27:57,796 --> 00:28:00,316 Speaker 1: And that's when Catherine got the idea for the final 560 00:28:00,356 --> 00:28:04,036 Speaker 1: step in my fun prevention. Since eighties sing along seemed 561 00:28:04,076 --> 00:28:06,876 Speaker 1: to be the magical confluence of all my fun factors 562 00:28:06,916 --> 00:28:09,916 Speaker 1: at once, Catherine thought it would be good, purely for 563 00:28:09,996 --> 00:28:13,876 Speaker 1: scientific purposes, of course, to experience that true fun moment 564 00:28:14,156 --> 00:28:17,236 Speaker 1: right there in my house. Luckily, I just happened to 565 00:28:17,276 --> 00:28:20,476 Speaker 1: have some old inflatable microphones from that trip lying around. 566 00:28:20,636 --> 00:28:22,396 Speaker 3: I just want to be with you. 567 00:28:23,476 --> 00:28:26,236 Speaker 1: We were both a little rusty, but our impromptu sing 568 00:28:26,276 --> 00:28:27,476 Speaker 1: along was awesome. 569 00:28:27,636 --> 00:28:29,436 Speaker 4: But since you've been gone. 570 00:28:29,916 --> 00:28:32,116 Speaker 1: Our spur of the moment. Sing along only lasted an 571 00:28:32,116 --> 00:28:34,956 Speaker 1: hour or so, but having that moment of true fun 572 00:28:35,076 --> 00:28:37,316 Speaker 1: right in the middle of my day wound up making 573 00:28:37,316 --> 00:28:42,476 Speaker 1: me feel totally alive for days. Oddly enough, taking a 574 00:28:42,516 --> 00:28:45,356 Speaker 1: short break to privately croon like a rock star made 575 00:28:45,356 --> 00:28:47,676 Speaker 1: me feel even more productive through the rest of my 576 00:28:47,756 --> 00:28:48,236 Speaker 1: work week. 577 00:28:49,316 --> 00:28:49,636 Speaker 3: Love. 578 00:28:56,596 --> 00:28:59,436 Speaker 1: Realizing my love of singalongs also took me right back 579 00:28:59,476 --> 00:29:02,196 Speaker 1: to where the story began. As a kid, I was 580 00:29:02,236 --> 00:29:05,836 Speaker 1: obsessed with singing songs from the Peter Pan Musical. Back then, 581 00:29:06,036 --> 00:29:08,756 Speaker 1: I thought I'd never grow up. I believed I'd never 582 00:29:08,796 --> 00:29:11,956 Speaker 1: turn back on fun. I never thought adult me would 583 00:29:11,956 --> 00:29:15,316 Speaker 1: prioritize work and productivity over the delights of goofing around. 584 00:29:16,116 --> 00:29:19,676 Speaker 1: Turns out that that wise, fun loving kid wasn't entirely lost. 585 00:29:19,996 --> 00:29:23,036 Speaker 1: She was just hidden below the surface. All it took 586 00:29:23,156 --> 00:29:25,956 Speaker 1: was a fun invention and an inflatable microphone to set 587 00:29:25,956 --> 00:29:29,756 Speaker 1: her free. I hope hearing about the power of fun 588 00:29:29,876 --> 00:29:32,076 Speaker 1: inspires you to figure out some ways that you can 589 00:29:32,116 --> 00:29:35,596 Speaker 1: increase playfulness, connection, and flow. Why don't you take some 590 00:29:35,676 --> 00:29:38,516 Speaker 1: time to think about the moments you remember as so fun, 591 00:29:39,076 --> 00:29:41,596 Speaker 1: do your own fun audit, and make sure you also 592 00:29:41,676 --> 00:29:44,356 Speaker 1: pay attention to activities that currently pass for fun in 593 00:29:44,396 --> 00:29:47,516 Speaker 1: your life but don't actually feel all that good. By 594 00:29:47,556 --> 00:29:50,516 Speaker 1: taking time to identify your own personal fun factors, no 595 00:29:50,596 --> 00:29:53,716 Speaker 1: matter how surprising, you can better understand what they are 596 00:29:54,116 --> 00:29:56,796 Speaker 1: and proactively seek them out in your daily life. You 597 00:29:56,836 --> 00:29:59,236 Speaker 1: can even find some new hobbies that make you feel 598 00:29:59,316 --> 00:30:02,156 Speaker 1: a little bit more alive. And the science shows that 599 00:30:02,156 --> 00:30:04,156 Speaker 1: getting more fun in your life isn't just going to 600 00:30:04,196 --> 00:30:07,476 Speaker 1: be fun. It can also increase your productivity and as 601 00:30:07,476 --> 00:30:10,716 Speaker 1: I saw firsthand during my SURFLSS, making more time for 602 00:30:10,756 --> 00:30:12,876 Speaker 1: fun can also help you be a little bit more 603 00:30:12,876 --> 00:30:16,476 Speaker 1: compassionate with yourself, which is something we all need these days. 604 00:30:18,076 --> 00:30:20,476 Speaker 1: And so that's a wrap for Season three of The 605 00:30:20,476 --> 00:30:22,916 Speaker 1: Happiness Lab. But we'll be back in a few months 606 00:30:22,956 --> 00:30:25,276 Speaker 1: with more science based tips that you can use to 607 00:30:25,276 --> 00:30:28,516 Speaker 1: feel better. In the meantime, I'll be setting aside my 608 00:30:28,596 --> 00:30:31,356 Speaker 1: podcast MIC to get in some quality time with my 609 00:30:31,396 --> 00:30:34,756 Speaker 1: inflatable mic instead. Catherine, Let's do this. 610 00:30:35,436 --> 00:30:44,436 Speaker 4: Thanks to you. Thanks to you now again for the 611 00:30:44,476 --> 00:30:51,356 Speaker 4: first time. So yeah, yeah, thanks to you. Thanks to 612 00:30:51,476 --> 00:30:56,356 Speaker 4: you now again again. What I know you should know again. 613 00:31:00,716 --> 00:31:03,396 Speaker 1: The Happiness Lab is co written and produced by Ryan Dilly. 614 00:31:03,676 --> 00:31:07,276 Speaker 1: Our original music was composed by Zachary Silver, with additional scoring, 615 00:31:07,396 --> 00:31:11,476 Speaker 1: mixing and mastering by Evan Bola. Joseph Fridman checked our facts. 616 00:31:11,836 --> 00:31:15,556 Speaker 1: Sophie Crane mckibbon edited our scripts. Emily Anne Vaughan offered 617 00:31:15,556 --> 00:31:20,436 Speaker 1: additional production support. Special thanks to Mia La Belle, Carly mcgliori, 618 00:31:20,716 --> 00:31:25,716 Speaker 1: Heather Fain, Maggie Taylor, Daniella Lucaran, Maya Knigg, Nicol Morano, 619 00:31:26,076 --> 00:31:30,676 Speaker 1: Eric Xandler, Royston Bserve, Jacob Weissberg, and my agent Ben Davis. 620 00:31:31,076 --> 00:31:33,476 Speaker 1: That Happiness Lab is brought to you by Pushkin Industries 621 00:31:33,596 --> 00:31:40,196 Speaker 1: and me, Doctor Laurie Santos