Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera.
Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff you should know
Speaker 1: from house Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to
Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Josh Clark. With me is Charles W.
Speaker 1: Punkin Bryant. Yeah, doing his cheeks. How you know I'm
Speaker 1: in the heavy That's that's why he's right there? Coolio.
Speaker 1: This is double good luck. Okay, well good then this
Speaker 1: should probably be a pretty good podcast, which means we
Speaker 1: are doomed. Yes, Josh, Before we get going, can I
Speaker 1: just mentioned a little TV show coming up, uh, the
Speaker 1: Road to Punkin Chunkin and Punkin Chunking itself naturally? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that, Josh is Thanksgiving Night your board after your
Speaker 1: Turkey o on the Science Channel eight Eastern time. Right,
Speaker 1: So insert clever intro chunck. Have you ever been a hostage? No?
Speaker 1: Nor have I. I I would remember that, I think, but
Speaker 1: you would. Have you ever seen Inside Man? Uh? No?
Speaker 1: Is that which one was at Denzel? No? I didn't
Speaker 1: see that, Clive Owen, I wanted to dude, that is
Speaker 1: in my opinion, I haven't seen Dog Day Afternoon, but
Speaker 1: I think it's the greatest hostage movie ever made. You
Speaker 1: haven't seen Dog Day Afternoon. No, Chuck, I'm not seventy
Speaker 1: like you. Oh, I forgot that they burned all the
Speaker 1: copies in nineteen when you were born in the Great
Speaker 1: Fire started by a who. Dog Afternoon was gold. You
Speaker 1: should check it out. I will check it up. You
Speaker 1: know a hundred year old movie. No, I'm sure it's good.
Speaker 1: It was Paccino, it is prom sure, yeah, before he
Speaker 1: just went absolutely nuts. Um, well, okay, neither one of
Speaker 1: us has been a hostage or seeing each other's movies, right,
Speaker 1: But no, we must seen war games. But I can
Speaker 1: imagine that if either one of us were a hostage,
Speaker 1: there would be a hostage negotiator outside. Right, I would
Speaker 1: be dead pretty soon. I think if I were a hostage,
Speaker 1: has a pizza delivery person could have delivered that that
Speaker 1: segway better than me? Yeah? Yeah, in thirty minutes or less.
Speaker 1: Yeah uh so, Yeah, Josh, let's talk about hostage and negotiation.
Speaker 1: I can't say that word negotiations. Yes, Chuck, let's it is.
Speaker 1: There's a few things going on. Usually the hostage taker
Speaker 1: is want something, yeah, money, or they want to free
Speaker 1: their brothers that are political prisoners or um, they want
Speaker 1: safe passage or something like that, right, or they want
Speaker 1: you know, some country to stop some policy at and uh,
Speaker 1: usually the target of the hostage shaker is not the
Speaker 1: hostage but some other third party. Yeah and yeah, but
Speaker 1: we'll we'll get to the exception on that. And I was,
Speaker 1: I was chomping at the bit, right, I know, finally
Speaker 1: they are hostages are usually only bargaining chips that have
Speaker 1: symbolic value, right, Like for example, the nineteen seventy two
Speaker 1: Olympic Games in Munich, the hostages there had some serious
Speaker 1: symbolic value. They were, um, Israeli athletes and uh what
Speaker 1: kind of what kind of terrorists? Well, the target was
Speaker 1: the Israeli government clearly, not the athletes. They were the pawn,
Speaker 1: the symbolic pawn. Much like in the nineteen seventy two
Speaker 1: Olympics in Munich, the hostage crisis that happened there over
Speaker 1: what a twenty four period, Um, a bunch of Palestinian
Speaker 1: terrorists took some Israeli athletes hostage, and they were targeting Israel.
Speaker 1: So these were very symbolic pawns. I guess, as you'd
Speaker 1: put them, right, did you see Munich did you say,
Speaker 1: my god, it's a good movie. Man, that's a good one. Uh.
Speaker 1: And so Josh, now we can move on to the
Speaker 1: phases of a hostage situation. Okay, the initial phase, so Chuck, yes,
Speaker 1: all right, let's let's dramatize this a little bit. Okay,
Speaker 1: the initial phase. Yeah, we're just a group of people
Speaker 1: hanging out and say a bank. Sure, we'll do a bank.
Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, a bunch of guys
Speaker 1: come through the door, kicking off what's known as the
Speaker 1: initial phase, right, like you said, already, right, And what's
Speaker 1: the initial phase, Chuck? It is a initial stage of
Speaker 1: panic and violence where they subdue the hostages and uh,
Speaker 1: it's it's very um. So during the initial phase they
Speaker 1: come in, everybody get on the floor, right, right, and
Speaker 1: then they barred the doors, and uh, the initial phase
Speaker 1: is very brief. Did he like my machine gun? Yeah?
Speaker 1: That's good. Then comes the negotiation phase, and that's when
Speaker 1: Johnny Law comes on the scene, and that's generally called
Speaker 1: the standoff phase. Right, And this is almost always the
Speaker 1: longest phase of a hostage situation. This is when all
Speaker 1: the negotiation is taking place, when they send in pizza
Speaker 1: boxes with little cameras and people have to pee, and
Speaker 1: the negotiators saying, if there's a pregnant woman in their
Speaker 1: letter out stuff just when people have to pee. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's a good one. And then the final phases that
Speaker 1: the ter a nation phase. And uh, you've got a
Speaker 1: few different results that can happen here. Um, either the
Speaker 1: hostage takers surrender and they're arrested, or the police uh
Speaker 1: kind of mountain assault and kill them or arrest them,
Speaker 1: or their demands are granted and they get away. Uh. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and the second one is actually what happened. Actually, combination
Speaker 1: of two and three is what happened in Munich. As
Speaker 1: anybody who's seen the movie knows. Um, the West German
Speaker 1: police are like, we can't take these guys that, we
Speaker 1: need to let them think that they're actually going to
Speaker 1: escape and get them to the airport. All the hostages
Speaker 1: were killed, along with a pilot and a police officer.
Speaker 1: Uh and uh the rest of the um, the hostage takers,
Speaker 1: the Palestinian terrorists were killed except for three who were
Speaker 1: captured right there. It was a blood bath, basically, Well,
Speaker 1: I thought they were hunted down later, didn't that What
Speaker 1: Munich was about the people who engineered it. Okay, we're
Speaker 1: supposedly hunted down later by the massad bright Eric Bannah,
Speaker 1: who is just clearly most solid material the Australian massade. Um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, those are the three phases. And um during
Speaker 1: the second phases when the negotiator comes on the scene,
Speaker 1: right and UM, if you've ever seen the movie Negotiator,
Speaker 1: the negotiators clearly disappointed. Um. But there was something that
Speaker 1: is very characteristic of hostage negotiation, and that is it's
Speaker 1: a very important point that the hostage negotiator not be
Speaker 1: the league commander on the scene. And why Chuck well
Speaker 1: because um, Well, for a couple of reasons. One is
Speaker 1: that the negotiator doesn't need to be multitasking right then,
Speaker 1: they need to have all their focus on talking to
Speaker 1: and talking down the hostage taker. This one reason that's
Speaker 1: part of it. They also, um, one of the one
Speaker 1: of the great tactics that hostage negotiators use is um
Speaker 1: to stall and they prolonged the situation. That seems like
Speaker 1: the main tactic, right, it's just by time. One of
Speaker 1: the one of the tactics they use to create that tactic,
Speaker 1: UM is to say, well, I can't make that call
Speaker 1: I've got to talk to somebody else. Um, And if
Speaker 1: it's common knowledge that the hostage negotiator actually is commanding
Speaker 1: the scene, then that doesn't really work. Right. They'll say, well,
Speaker 1: you can pull the trigger on that because you're the
Speaker 1: boss exactly, and they're like, no, no, no, don't use
Speaker 1: that phrase. Right. That's in every movie, every single hostage
Speaker 1: movie is that scene where they go, well, I just
Speaker 1: can't give you a seven forty seven full of gold bars, dude.
Speaker 1: I gotta get clearance from Fort Knox and I'm gonna
Speaker 1: take at least a day, so you might want to
Speaker 1: lower your demands, which is actually another reason they stalled
Speaker 1: to try and chip away at the demands. So the
Speaker 1: negotiators on the scene and he's trying to prolong the situation.
Speaker 1: Like you said, um, they're trying to lessen the demands.
Speaker 1: They're also um, but they also stall and prolong the
Speaker 1: situation by um, getting the hostage takers to focus on
Speaker 1: some minute and really unimportant details. Yeah, I like this.
Speaker 1: They try to derail them, so like the seven forty seven,
Speaker 1: what kind of seven forty seven do you want? It?
Speaker 1: Is it okay if it was built before? Because we've
Speaker 1: got some that are built after that. But then they
Speaker 1: have this seating arrangement that might be a problem for you,
Speaker 1: And and all of a sudden, you're distracting the hostage
Speaker 1: taker from the crisis at hand, and he's thinking about
Speaker 1: what kind of seven seven he wants? You know, I
Speaker 1: could just see the guy putting his hand over the
Speaker 1: thing and going, what kind of plane do we want?
Speaker 1: He's asking about seek configurations. I have no idea, right exactly.
Speaker 1: It's also they hang up, and then you've bought some time,
Speaker 1: right And and not only um, not every hostage taker
Speaker 1: once a seven forty seven, but this can also be
Speaker 1: applied to even more minute details, like what do you
Speaker 1: want on your pizza? You know? Well, I mean, do
Speaker 1: you really want bell pepper because you're getting onion already
Speaker 1: and sometimes it's too crunchy. I imagine there's a point
Speaker 1: where if you're talking to a hostage taker and you
Speaker 1: try the bell Pepper onion combo, because all they're gonna
Speaker 1: pick up on what you're doing, or if they've read
Speaker 1: this article or ever ever seen a hostage movie, be
Speaker 1: sure that's another good they would probably be wise to
Speaker 1: say it. It sounds to me like you're trying to
Speaker 1: buy some time here, bang bang, indeed, which is what
Speaker 1: the hostage negotiator does not want to happen. No, that's
Speaker 1: number two on their list. One is to prolong it.
Speaker 1: And while while they're prolonging it, we should mention that
Speaker 1: there trying to get information as much information as possible
Speaker 1: on who the person is, how many there are, what's
Speaker 1: frame of mind they're in, if they're unstable, if they're violent, um,
Speaker 1: any kind of clue that can that can help him out, right,
Speaker 1: Because a hostage negotiator is going to talk differently. They're
Speaker 1: not going to try that Bell pepper onion thing on
Speaker 1: like a very cool, calculated Clive Owens type, but they
Speaker 1: might on somebody who's like just out of his mind
Speaker 1: crazy because his wife is leaving him. Right, which is
Speaker 1: actually the most common hostage situation is a domestic dispute
Speaker 1: that's turned into some guy with the gun barricading he
Speaker 1: and his family in their home. Yeah, you usually think
Speaker 1: of the big movie scenario with some foreign enemy taking
Speaker 1: all these people hot stage, but it's usually just a
Speaker 1: regular domestic scene. And the worst ones, man, the worst
Speaker 1: ones of those you see on the news where you
Speaker 1: see some dudes got a baby acting as a human shield.
Speaker 1: Who does that? You've never seen that? No, Oh man,
Speaker 1: it's it's the worst watching those cop shows, that those
Speaker 1: true crime shows. A baby is a human shield. Guys.
Speaker 1: It's like the dad is out of his mind and
Speaker 1: uh on drugs or something and he'll have his baby
Speaker 1: and it's just it's the worst thing in the world
Speaker 1: to watch unfold, very disturbing. Well bet in fact, don't
Speaker 1: go see that, Joshua. That'll keep you up at night.
Speaker 1: I bet it will. So that is the most common
Speaker 1: type of things domestic. But back to the safety of
Speaker 1: the hostages. That's number two on the list of the
Speaker 1: negotiators to keep everyone in there alive, right, I would
Speaker 1: think could technically be number one. Well, prolonging the situation
Speaker 1: I think leads to number one. So it's the kind
Speaker 1: of tied right. So, um, what you want to do
Speaker 1: if you're a negotiator and you are chipping away at demands.
Speaker 1: First of all, you're trying to get the seven forty
Speaker 1: seven out the window or the gold bars from Fort Knox,
Speaker 1: But you're really trying to get to the heart of
Speaker 1: what what does this guy want? He wants the seven
Speaker 1: forty seven and he wants gold bars. Well, he wants
Speaker 1: to escape and he wants some money, So maybe it
Speaker 1: can be dealt with on a lesser level. But first,
Speaker 1: let's get you some food in there. But to get
Speaker 1: you some food, I need a hostage. To get as
Speaker 1: many hostages out as possible. Number one, to ensure the
Speaker 1: safety of the hostages, as you said, but number two
Speaker 1: for if when when an assault comes, if it does come,
Speaker 1: there's a lot fewer hostages in there that the police
Speaker 1: need to not shoot, you know, Plus the hostage did
Speaker 1: you just say this, The hostage can turn if they
Speaker 1: release someone who's like ill or pregnant, they can give
Speaker 1: them information, insider information, right, like, even to create an
Speaker 1: even more distinct psychological profile. That kind of right, right, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I like the fact that you were talking about the
Speaker 1: lessening the demands, like we can't get your seven forty
Speaker 1: seven and gold bars, and it really could. I could
Speaker 1: see that throwing the hostage taker into a tizzy. If
Speaker 1: all of a sudden there have to decide, well, will
Speaker 1: you take a helicopter in a cash years chat? That
Speaker 1: kind of well, actually I hadn't thought it before, but
Speaker 1: will you endorse it before him right, Yeah, let's go
Speaker 1: to the bank. Oh I'm in a bank. Awesome, Yes,
Speaker 1: bring me that cast. Here's check please. So number three
Speaker 1: on their list is to keep everything calm. You don't
Speaker 1: want to upset a hostage taker. No, you're gonna keep
Speaker 1: everything nice and chill, especially following the initial phase, that
Speaker 1: initial assault. The guys all jacked up on like adrenaline.
Speaker 1: He's a little crazy. All of a sudden, it's starting
Speaker 1: to sink in if he accidentally took hostages, starting to
Speaker 1: sinking like, oh my god, I'm I am a hostage taker.
Speaker 1: Now this is a little nuts. So you want to
Speaker 1: keep the guy calm, or the guys or the gals calm,
Speaker 1: especially if it was a biter mine Hoff experiment. No
Speaker 1: idea what that is. It's actually the there's a movie
Speaker 1: out called the Body mine Hoff Complex, I think um.
Speaker 1: And they actually introduced terrorism to the Western world where
Speaker 1: was a group of Germans, German radicals, Kevin Space, basically
Speaker 1: board kids that introduced things like skyjacking and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: They were crazy crazy, uh so, Josh. The fourth thing,
Speaker 1: and this was my favorite one. Actually, one of the
Speaker 1: goals of the hostage negotiator is to um, get the
Speaker 1: hostage taker and the hostages to work together to give
Speaker 1: them some task where they have to interact, like delivering
Speaker 1: the pizza. So send out, um, you're you're most agreeable
Speaker 1: hostage that you trust the most to get the pizza
Speaker 1: and bring it in. So all of a sudden, the
Speaker 1: hostage taker has to talk to the hostages and say, hey,
Speaker 1: we need you to go and get the pizza because
Speaker 1: we can't go within the sniper range. And the more
Speaker 1: you get them interacting, the more chance that the hostage
Speaker 1: taker sees the hostage as a human instead of just
Speaker 1: blind phoning them and putting them in the corner right
Speaker 1: or in shooting them in the head. There was actually
Speaker 1: a very famous case of that in some hostage takers
Speaker 1: took over a subway train or a train in Holland
Speaker 1: and a guy named Robert de Groot was about to
Speaker 1: be executed Chuck, and apparently they allowed him to pray first,
Speaker 1: and they heard him praying for his wife and children,
Speaker 1: and they got them so bad that they just couldn't
Speaker 1: execute the guy, so they actually fake executed him. Uh,
Speaker 1: the standoff continued, and when it came time to execute
Speaker 1: more hostages, they didn't give him a chance to pray
Speaker 1: and just actually executed him. And I'm sure they pushed
Speaker 1: him off the train and he rolled down the hill
Speaker 1: and like faked like he was dead. And I'm sure
Speaker 1: the rest of the hostages were like, thanks, Bob, you
Speaker 1: right now we don't even not only can we not pray,
Speaker 1: but we're getting a bullet in the head. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I was thinking about that, like this is you feel
Speaker 1: so removed from it. The weird thing about being a
Speaker 1: hostage is like, no one plans on being a hostage.
Speaker 1: It just happens all of a sudden. And imagine dying
Speaker 1: on a train on some track in halland by being
Speaker 1: executed by some hostage taker during a standoff. What a
Speaker 1: crap way to die. You ride on the money there, brother, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so Chuck, I think I think it's pretty damn pretentious
Speaker 1: of us to have not brought up Stockholm syndrome yet,
Speaker 1: don't you. Yeah, go ahead identifying with your captor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it actually came out of a bank robbery and I
Speaker 1: think nineteen eighty one um in Stockholm appropriately enough, and uh,
Speaker 1: this this bank robbers plan just kind of went to crap.
Speaker 1: And I've been like using pseudo bad words all day,
Speaker 1: stupid and weird. This bank robbers plan kind of went
Speaker 1: to pot and all of a sudden he was a
Speaker 1: hostage taker. Right, Well, this standoff continued, and strangely enough,
Speaker 1: the hostage just started helping him. They were serving his lookouts.
Speaker 1: They were giving him advice on how to escape and
Speaker 1: how to deal with the negotiator and all that. And
Speaker 1: that's kind of odd if you think about it. So
Speaker 1: why would why would people suffer this what they call
Speaker 1: Stockholm syndrome. Well, there's a lot of psychological reasons for it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: defense mechanism, coping, coping type of thing. Well, yeah, if
Speaker 1: you feel powerless in a situation like that, you go
Speaker 1: to whoever has the power, and when you're a hostage,
Speaker 1: your hostage taker has the power. Yeah. And the other
Speaker 1: thing I mentioned too, is that if you're not killed
Speaker 1: and there are other hostages are killed, you feel such
Speaker 1: a sense of relief that can actually morph into sympathy.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like I remember we did the brainwashing
Speaker 1: Uh yeah podcast? Yeah, good one. Uh you want to
Speaker 1: talk about countries and some famous non negotiating countries. Yeah,
Speaker 1: do you remember the eighties, it was like planes were
Speaker 1: getting hijacked everywhere all over the body Mine Hoff. Yes,
Speaker 1: the the United States, Russia, and Israel are all very
Speaker 1: well known for having a non negotiating policy with hostage
Speaker 1: takers and terrorists. France had the opposite didn't work out
Speaker 1: for him, though, No, it didn't. France became very quickly
Speaker 1: a target um for hostage to a king because France
Speaker 1: would apparently be like, what do you want? Ha ha ha. Right,
Speaker 1: And apparently sometimes, and this doesn't surprise me, the countries
Speaker 1: that refused quote unquote refused to negotiate, there might be
Speaker 1: some secret negotiations that happened that they never let out
Speaker 1: because that would destroy their front that they won't negotiate, right.
Speaker 1: And France also apparently had a little problem with um
Speaker 1: forming agreements with hostage takers, and then the hostage takers
Speaker 1: would break the agreements, which is crazy, can you believe it?
Speaker 1: With a bunch of So there is a there's an equilibrium,
Speaker 1: Chuck loves equilibrium. But there's an equilibrium between not negotiating
Speaker 1: at all and over negotiating. And I think that's what
Speaker 1: you're talking about. It's kind of like negotiating on the
Speaker 1: download and never talking about it and then hunting the
Speaker 1: people down who did this and murdering them. Right, So, Chuck,
Speaker 1: let's talk about what happens when you just absolutely refused
Speaker 1: to negotiate, as we've seen actually in the twenty one century,
Speaker 1: sadly enough twice in Russia. Yeah, a couple of famous
Speaker 1: occurrences there with the Muslim Chechen separatists. In two thousand two,
Speaker 1: they took over a theater in Russia, threatened to blow
Speaker 1: it up, and so the Russians go in and wonder
Speaker 1: who who was it putin? You think the guy who
Speaker 1: wrestles tigers with his shirt off in front of news cameras,
Speaker 1: don't you don't bear his hallmark? Yeah, they decided to
Speaker 1: storm the theater and uh send in some knockout gas
Speaker 1: instead of negotiating, and they ended up killing all. I
Speaker 1: don't know if it's all of them, but a hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty nine hostages died from the knockout knockout gas.
Speaker 1: That's not knockout, guess that's death gass. I think that's
Speaker 1: what you mean by knockout. I don't think they just
Speaker 1: don't want to call it death gass. Maybe. So my
Speaker 1: eyes are open now because I didn't realize that was
Speaker 1: a euphemism. The other one, Josh, was really really sad.
Speaker 1: I remember this one while in oh four when the
Speaker 1: same Chechen separatists invaded an elementary school with guns and
Speaker 1: bombs and locked themselves up in a gym and Russia
Speaker 1: would not Negotia eight and three of the hostages that
Speaker 1: were killed. Yeah, that was awful. And half of them
Speaker 1: were kids. When they blew up the gymnasium, it was terrible.
Speaker 1: Listen up Putin. Yeah, but you maintain your toughness and
Speaker 1: we're not gonna negotiate. Just kill the kids. Okay, so
Speaker 1: chuck you you okay there, Yeah, I'm good. I'm good.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about a hostage situation that actually went relatively well,
Speaker 1: at least compared to UM Russia. I know what you're
Speaker 1: gonna talk about. Well, there's a very famous incident at
Speaker 1: Prince's Gate UH in London in April UM members of
Speaker 1: the Democratic Revolutionary Movement for the Liberation of Arabistan changed
Speaker 1: that name. It's a mouthful, isn't it. Basically Arabistan is
Speaker 1: an Iranian province UH, and the group wanted to liberate
Speaker 1: it clearly UM. And they were Democrats I guess. But
Speaker 1: they were. They were I think twenty of them and
Speaker 1: they took no, there were six of them and they
Speaker 1: took twenty six hostages at the US Embassy in London
Speaker 1: at Prince's Gate. So there was a uh standoff that
Speaker 1: lasted quite a while. Um. The hostage negotiator did this.
Speaker 1: By the book, UH kept the hostage takers focused on
Speaker 1: details like what kind of food do you want? That
Speaker 1: kind of thing. Um, Yeah, I'm in the mood for time.
Speaker 1: I could go for a nice um curry bunha. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that sounds good. That's Indian though. That's good stuff, by
Speaker 1: the way, if you've ever had it. Um. They actually
Speaker 1: did execute one hostage, but the other hostages apparently reported
Speaker 1: that this guy UM decided to get into a debate
Speaker 1: over Islam with Iranian terrorists, which you don't do in
Speaker 1: a hostage situation if you hostage. The negotiator actually did
Speaker 1: manage to get the release of two ill hostages. Um.
Speaker 1: Maybe one of them is pregnant. Sometimes when you replaced
Speaker 1: ill with pregnant, which I don't understand, And they got
Speaker 1: info from them. Yeah. And so basically the one thing
Speaker 1: that really wasn't by the book was that the the
Speaker 1: s a. Yes, got the which is the Special Forces
Speaker 1: in Great Britain. They are bad. I have a friend
Speaker 1: who's in that. Yeah, I can't say his name here, okay. Um,
Speaker 1: they got the hostage negotiator to talk to the hostage
Speaker 1: takers on the phone right before the assault, knowing the
Speaker 1: assault was coming as a distraction. Right. That doesn't happen much,
Speaker 1: not usually. And why because they don't let the negotiator
Speaker 1: in on this kind of information, because they think that
Speaker 1: they would compromise the job just through maybe even inflection
Speaker 1: or tone of their voice. They would give it away
Speaker 1: right on purpose. Of course, No, no, certainly not. Very
Speaker 1: few hostage negotiators experienced Stockholm syndrome negotiation. Definitely just mentally
Speaker 1: crumble at the first time. But this it actually paid off.
Speaker 1: The hostage negotiator cut the um lead guy away from
Speaker 1: the window and the s A S storm the bill
Speaker 1: boom too tap. I imagine five of the guys and
Speaker 1: arrest the sixth. Ye not bad. And I think they
Speaker 1: only lost one other hostage, uh twenty six, which is
Speaker 1: not bad. No, but I mean if your storm of
Speaker 1: building in the hostage situation, it's like, well, yeah, that
Speaker 1: guy lost his life and another guy lost his life.
Speaker 1: But it's like, yeah, but that's actually really good percentage,
Speaker 1: I would image. I mean, I wonder what well I
Speaker 1: would guess the two thousand four Russian standoff is probably
Speaker 1: a bit as bad as it can get. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: would say so. One thing we mentioned there that I
Speaker 1: thought was pretty interesting was you mentioned the Stockholm syndrome.
Speaker 1: But that is actually a tactic that the negotiator will use,
Speaker 1: sort of sort of a good cop bad cop thing. Uh.
Speaker 1: They'll get on the phone or what however they're communicating
Speaker 1: and say, yeah, you know I actually they'll try and
Speaker 1: relate to them. I kind of see where you're coming from.
Speaker 1: I understand this police captain does not understand where you're
Speaker 1: coming from, and he wants to mow you down. To
Speaker 1: talk to me, man, and we'll work it out between us. Chuck,
Speaker 1: you would make it excellent hostage negotiated. I just realized
Speaker 1: I wish I had a hostage I could give to
Speaker 1: you right now. That was good. Oh, I just offer
Speaker 1: you a six pack and you throw it down, your
Speaker 1: gun all over pretty much and some smokes. But that's
Speaker 1: a pretty cool trick there. I like that. Of course, again,
Speaker 1: this is straight out of the movie. So if any
Speaker 1: Hotches Staker has ever seen any of these films and
Speaker 1: they should be one step ahead of the negotiator, I
Speaker 1: would think so. Um there's another um example of not
Speaker 1: going by the book that I wanted to mention. Uh
Speaker 1: in in nineteen seventy five of the U. S Consulate
Speaker 1: and Kuala Lumpoor, Malaysia, UM, there was there was a
Speaker 1: hostage situation and uh apparently the Japanese Red Army, members
Speaker 1: of the Japanese Red Army UM attacked the consulate and
Speaker 1: took hostages. So the terrorists actually called the the authorities
Speaker 1: to tell them that they had the hostages, and some
Speaker 1: junior officer at the at the embassy elsewhere in the
Speaker 1: embassy picked up the phone and from that point on,
Speaker 1: for the rest of the standoff, they wouldn't talk to
Speaker 1: anybody else but this junior officer. Wow, yeah, who was
Speaker 1: not a trained hostage to negotiate it. And it's just like, oh, god,
Speaker 1: well he probably has an eating Well, no, there was
Speaker 1: a negotiator on the scene, like coaching, coaching the junior officer.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah. I also saw in the article where
Speaker 1: there's um, there's always a second, a secondary negotiator on
Speaker 1: the hand, because sometimes, because you're basically improving, you gotta
Speaker 1: be quick on your feet, and if all of a
Speaker 1: sudden you're going ah, had that, you need someone to
Speaker 1: step in and say tell them that will send them pizza.
Speaker 1: That first one sounded exactly like Kevin Spacey in The Negotiator.
Speaker 1: I didn't see that. When there's some stupid twist where
Speaker 1: he was in fact the in on it or something
Speaker 1: who I don't remember. I blocked it out of my memory.
Speaker 1: That might have been spoiler. Of course you're supposed to
Speaker 1: say spoiler beforehand. But whatever. Yeah, well, we are pretty
Speaker 1: much done here with hostage negotiation. We're gonna leave a
Speaker 1: whole section untouched on becoming a hostage negotiator. You can
Speaker 1: find that in the article how hostage Negotiation Works. You
Speaker 1: can type in hostage I imagine on the handy search
Speaker 1: bar at how stuffworks dot com, which means it's time
Speaker 1: for listener mail. No, no, Josh, not today, Okay, no
Speaker 1: listener mail. We're gonna do a little Kiva update like
Speaker 1: we are wont to do. Okay, so you want to
Speaker 1: go ahead and give the plug? Yeah, man, we started
Speaker 1: a Kiva team Keeva dot org k I v A.
Speaker 1: Dot org is a micro lending website, socially responsible one
Speaker 1: which means you don't make any interest on your loans.
Speaker 1: You can loan as little as twenty five bucks to
Speaker 1: people in developing countries and now the US um entrepreneurs
Speaker 1: who are trying to become self sufficient through their businesses.
Speaker 1: They're little, tiny loans that make a huge difference elsewhere
Speaker 1: in the in the world. Indeed, uh, and we are
Speaker 1: kicking bottom on this. We are man, and I'm proud
Speaker 1: of the stuff you should know Army, because you guys
Speaker 1: are responding and this is really really cool. We challenge
Speaker 1: the Colbert Rapport or I like to call it the
Speaker 1: Colbert Report, and we actually made a video where we
Speaker 1: chastised him. Yeah, what you probably never see, but just
Speaker 1: if you watch the Colbert Report, scoff while you watch
Speaker 1: it thinking of Chuck and I and the stuff you
Speaker 1: should know Army. People are responding in a big way
Speaker 1: and it's going great. And hopefully the Colbert Report will
Speaker 1: take notice because that will make even more money for
Speaker 1: Kiva and it might get us on his show. Chuck
Speaker 1: is just chomping at the bit again on the show,
Speaker 1: so well, if you want to join the Stuff you
Speaker 1: Should Know, keep the team, please do, please do. Um.
Speaker 1: You can go to www dot kiva dot org slash
Speaker 1: team slash Stuff you Should Know, and that will take
Speaker 1: you right there. A plus, there's a pretty picture chuck
Speaker 1: on there. Yeah, me and Emily. Actually it's a picture
Speaker 1: of U. We have you know, she's on my team.
Speaker 1: I was talking about our picture. Oh no, no, no.
Speaker 1: On the member page though. If you're curious of what
Speaker 1: my wife and I look like together, then you can
Speaker 1: surf through the member page. And is that the one
Speaker 1: that's your screensaver in your iPhone too? Yeah, it's It's
Speaker 1: one of the best pictures I heard of us. It's
Speaker 1: very nice. Thank you. Uh and how about the blogs?
Speaker 1: Real quick? Yeah, we both run a blog, and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna I've been lazy with it lately. I'm gonna get
Speaker 1: back on off the schneid Um. You can access the
Speaker 1: blog on the blogs page on which you can find
Speaker 1: on the right side of the house Stuff Works dot
Speaker 1: dot com home page. I just barely split that out,
Speaker 1: so that's where you can find it. Yeah. Go interact, Yes,
Speaker 1: go interact. That's a pretty cool blog. We like it
Speaker 1: a lot. If you have an email, or if your
Speaker 1: name is Aisha Tyler and you have never listened this
Speaker 1: far before in a podcast, you can send us an
Speaker 1: email to Stuff Podcast at how stuff works dot com.
Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, is
Speaker 1: that how stuff works dot com. Want more house stuff Works,
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